Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Yes Prafulla, that kind of calculation takes the parallax error into consideration. It is most significant for moon (closest body) and lesser for other planets. Depending on the angular position of the moon (rising, setting, medium coeli or nadir) the PE can be as high as more than a degree amounting to a difference of upto a couple of years if the moon is in the star of one of the longer duration planets (venus, shani etc). RR , Prafulla Gang <jyotish> wrote: > > Dear members > > there is another variation in ayanamsa - calculating geocentric (taking from the center of earth...can someone find the center of a ball) or topocentric (taking from the place of birth). In my interactions with few local panchang writers, I observed the use of topocentric calculations. Perhaps, that is one of the major difference in different local panchangs. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > No person was ever honored for what he received. > Honor has been the reward for what he gave. > > > > > > gbp_kumar > > Sat, 3 Jun 2006 01:00:21 -0700 (PDT) > > > > Re: Re: before Lahiri which one? 2/6 p2 > > > > RR Ji, > >  I have also said close to waht u said on the major contributionf oh > > Lahiri is the standardisation at least fo Hindu calander unlike Islam, i > > sno mean achievemtn esp with the odds he was up against. esp th snakes > > panchangams > >  and now all we hat to do is work on the BASE LINE which is Lahiris > > +/- xx ded xx mi sssec say raman 1 Deg 26 min 26 sec. Krishnnamurthy 0 > > deg 0 min 7' les to Lahiri. > >  And is also nice that you did find some matter to look at and > > appriciate as well apart from content the analagy, this spirit I also > > felt was needed when we did discuss Guru, becasue we do wrtie with a few > > points, medtods, quotes and do expect them also to be commented good or > > bad no problem and any suppliments or deletins we will like to be > > correced as we are always learning. weleanr till we pass out of this > > world. > >  And I always believe the traditions laid before us are elastic and > > not plastic, to accept any modifications of the rules with the times it > > is applied without over ruling or destroying the original spirit of the > > subject, > > crystal pages <rrgb> wrote:       Dear Satish ji, > >  Though Sri Nirmal Chandra Lahiri is noted for his ayanamsha (which he > >  never called his own but simply pinned it to the star Chitra or > >  Spica -- hence properly named as Chitra navamsha. Similar > >  misnomenclature also exists for the so called Yukteshwar ayanamsha. > >  Even more so, since unlike Lahiri, Yukteshwar Giri ji Maharaj did not > >  calculate or establish that ayanamsha but merely stated that it was > >  according to astronomical books -- possibly prevailing panchangs > >  followed by him). All this has been written with more interesting > >  similarities between it and Raman ayanamsha in earlier posts, etc. > >  Anyway, much more important than the ayanamsha he gave us, Lahiri's > >  primary contribution to the field of jyotish related astronomy is the > >  bringing out of accurate epehmeris/panchangs which were based on > >  mathematical calculations with modern terms and corrections given by > >  astrophysics. With Lahiri's ephemeris starting in 30s or thereabouts > >  the wild variabilities that characterized all but a few rare > >  panchaangs became a thing of past and more importantly, others were > >  forced to follow suit and fine-tune their 'act'. Publishing just > >  anything and calling it a panchanng or panjika would not do, any > >  more! > >  That, to me is the major contribution of Lahiri. > >  Kumarji gave a beautiful analogy, or different ayanamshas being like > >  vision-correcting glasses. Mine would not work for you, yours would > >  not work for me! My own that worked ten years do not work for me > >  anymore <LOL> > >  RR > >  , "R Satish" <rsatish1942@> > >  wrote: > >  > > >  > > >  > Dear Friends, > >  > > >  >  Mentioning about Lahiri's Ayanamsa,remimded about my experience > >  > with a hard core Vedic scholar,from a place called Kotipalli,on the > >  > banks of Godavari in East Godavari Dt. > >  > > >  >  This Brahmin,80 +yrs runs a Vedic Patshala which trains Hindu > >  > Priests for performimg various poojas etcand is residential school. > >  > > >  >  When the subject of Ayanamsa came up,I had mentioned to him about > >  > the pabnchang difference between a Kakinada panchang and Lahiri's > >  > ayanamsa. He emphatically stated that Lahiri succumbed to the then > >  > govt's pressure manipulating the ephemeris.He stated there is a > >  > difference of" one pada",between the local panchang.Hence a > >  > differneceof nearly 6-8 month's is not uncommon..I had gone to him > >  > to discuss my son's horoscope,about 3/4 yrs ago.Even in my case, > >  > there is a diffence of exactly one year in the balance of Chandra > >  > dasa,I have not been to reconcile this difference. > >  > > >  > As stated by you stalwarts,finally it boils down to one's > >  experience. > >  > Fnaticism does not serve much purpose to the cause of astrology. > >  > > >  >  This is one of my several experiemces with the' stalwarts' . > >  > > >  > > >  > Regards, > >  > > >  >  Satish > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > , Prashant Kumar G B > >  > <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > >  > > > >  > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji, > >  > > > >  > >  I have also shared some of these inputs directly and indirectly > >  > with many in person and in the groups like these the most > >  > remarkable one being of ICAS founder Secy sri Late K. Ashwattappa, > >  > who had contemopt for Raman like all others here as it was > >  > fashionable to do so by ciritising any pouplar person, and so for > >  > his ayanamsa MOST OF HIS critics do not even know the difference > >  > between Lahiri and Raman's in terms of deg- min- sec and MAJORITY > >  > HAVE NEVER TESTED IT either, just prejueice, jealous of him. > >  > > > >  > >  But my association with him for over 15 yrs he felt he must try > >  > it and did test them randomly and fouind in many cases Rahu Dasa > >  or > >  > Ketu Dasa at the end giving Good results than their earlier part > >  > once he shifted the ayanamsa found it is Guru, or Sukra periods > >  that > >  > gave the right results as Subha phala need not wait til then end > >  of > >  > the dasa to deliver. eve Ketu or Rahu if well place can give at > >  > start not in tail end. THIS I HAVE THE BENIFIT OF MNEXT GURU S > >  > SUBBANNA, AWHO GOT IT FROM HIS GURU they are Mysore Maharaja's > >  > asthana Jyotishis for generations. > >  > > > >  > >  SO ANYONE WITH AN OPEN MID IF THEY TYR IT CAN GET GOOD RESULTS > >  it > >  > is open to them no vested interests, except that we want the > >  subject > >  > to have its good tols an dusers benifit if they try, it is > >  possible > >  > they can stillg et good results in this or anyother left to ones > >  > intution, instincts, knowledge, in RAMAN' success we know we ar > >  > einthe right track so lets move along, and he hsued the > >  traditional > >  > ones which even westerners beofe his birth have acknowledged as > >  the > >  > genius of INDIAN TRADITION's (Vedic) RICHNESS. > >  > > > >  > > > >  > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote:       dear prashant ji > >  > > > >  > >  is is so nice of you to share your astro knolwedge from your > >  > three > >  > >  decades of experience and since you are one of the founding > >  > members > >  > >  of ICAS, your inputs are always lessons for amateurs. > >  > > > >  > >  earlier i was using lahiri for the past several years and > >  > sometimes > >  > >  i did not get them right inlcuidng my own. however, after your > >  > >  advise, i started using raman's ayanamsha and am getting the > >  > charts, > >  > >  especially dasa periods, more accurately. unfortunately, these > >  > >  ayanamashas can make or break a chart. > >  > > > >  > >  with best wishes > >  > >  pandit arjun > >  > > > >  > >  , Prashant Kumar G B > >  > >  <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > >  > >  > > >  > >  > Hi Tarun > >  > >  >  I had replied to you, there were 33 Ayanansa's in vouge > >  prior > >  > to > >  > >  Lahiri stepping in and pushing his own, this is like a judge > >  who > >  > >  could not undersand the case but yet gave a verdit. HIS OWN. > >  > >  > > >  > >  >  the reason is numerous claims and counter claims to deal > >  with > >  > >  > > >  > >  >  esp in Tamil Nadu then Madras Province it more a tamil > >  > centric > >  > >  problem there are quite a few thoughts based on their EQ [ego > >  > >  quotient] > >  > >  >  where most of them are based on hapazard Vakya panchang no > >  > >  corrections took place ever and if a mistake was made by one > >  in > >  > the > >  > >  family chain it continued as it was a brand name so no way you > >  > can > >  > >  dispute it.  there was Madurai, Kanchipuram, Srirangam, > >  Tenkasi > >  > >  etc groups each had a different Panbu panchangam [or snake > >  > >  calander] quite different from others. and say could not > >  agree > >  > >  comming from one state where will the reminder in India agree? > >  > >  > > >  > >  >  Even the tamils themselves had Gochara of Major planets at > >  > >  different months variation, eclipses and all others in chaos. > >  no > >  > >  scientific basis. Lahiri brought in the Drik or verifiable one > >  > >  which is caliculated on established astronomical principles at > >  > least. > >  > >  > > >  > >  > > >  > >  >  about TAMIL EGO QUOTENT if I follow the lead of RR here on > >  > >  storry telling these are true ones though > >  > >  > > >  > >  >  DURIGN THE BRITISH RAJ DAYS THE SUPREME COURT WAS IN LONDON > >  > or > >  > >  Privay Council as it was called. dealt with a case of Iyangars > >  a > >  > >  group of Brahmins of the Vishnavas there are 2 groups in them > >  > >  Vadagalai [Northern] and Thengalai [southern] in a temple > >  > function > >  > >  there was a dispute how to Mark the temple elephant's > >  forehaead > >  > >  with a Y or U shaped Mark of the Vaishnava mark > >  > >  >  [Vadagalis Mark it as U and Tehengalais s Y with a middle > >  > line > >  > >  in red] > >  > >  > > >  > >  >  they had enough street brawls as Tamils do and finally went > >  > to > >  > >  the PC [prviy council]. so that being the case you can never > >  say > >  > >  Lahiri had a easy job at least he standadrised our calander > >  but > >  > >  Islam is free in India each state Imam can see the same > >  Moon's > >  > >  crecent on a different days and have a different holiday the > >  > state > >  > >  and Central govt has. all laws are fo Hindus only. > >  > >  > > >  > >  >  BTW the Tamil EQ's latest M karunadhi and former CM. Ms > >  JJ, > >  > >  are meeting in the assembly after 17 yrs normally the other > >  one > >  > >  resigns if they loose and don't face each other directly. > >  their > >  > mud > >  > >  slinging is of unique depths. > >  > >  > > >  > >  > ~~Tarun~~ <tarun_vst@> wrote:       Dear RR ji, > >  > >  > > >  > >  >  yes Shri Nirmal Chandra Lahiri ji lived in calcutta but > >  since > >  > >  varanasi was key centre for > >  > >  >  astrology so the calculations were observed and studied as > >  > par > >  > >  Varanasi.(as wht i know) > >  > >  > > >  > >  >  Actually sometimes a question arises that what panchang was > >  > used > >  > >  before lahiri placed his > >  > >  >  ayanamasa, what was the base of calculations used while > >  > making > >  > >  chart in ancient times. > >  > >  > > >  > >  >  i think this question is still unanswered. > >  > >  > > >  > >  >  Thanks and Regards > >  > >  > > >  > >  >  Tarun > >  > >  >  www.thevinayak.com > >  > >  > > >  > >  >  --- crystal pages <rrgb@> wrote: > >  > >  > > >  > >  >  > I think Nirmal Chandra Lahiri ji lived in Calcutta and > >  not > >  > >  Varanasi! > >  > >  >  > > >  > >  >  > Not that it makes that big a difference longitudinally or > >  > >  >  > latitudinally but could mean several hours of journey, if > >  I > >  > >  remember > >  > >  >  > correctly between Baba Vishwanath or Sankatmochan or > >  Birla > >  > >  temple and > >  > >  >  > oh say Dakshineshwar or Kalibari! ;-) > >  > >  >  > > >  > >  >  > RR > >  > >  >  > > >  > >  >  > , ~~Tarun~~ > >  > >  <tarun_vst@> > >  > >  >  > wrote: > >  > >  >  > > > >  > >  >  > > Dear RR ji, > >  > >  >  > > > >  > >  >  > > no problem at all. you are very senior to me. > >  > >  >  > > > >  > >  >  > > sir even in my chart i have the same prob.. if i use > >  > raman > >  > >  ayanamsa > >  > >  >  > my dasha changes by 18 months. > >  > >  >  > > the rahu placement in my chart also changes. > >  > >  >  > > > >  > >  >  > > actually raman livd in south india and his location was > >  > much > >  > >  near > >  > >  >  > to equator in comparison to > >  > >  >  > > Kashi viswanath (base frm where Lahiri gave his > >  > >  calculations) so > >  > >  >  > the diff is easily expected. > >  > >  >  > > > >  > >  >  > > my dob 19-07-1983 > >  > >  >  > > time:- 10.35 am > >  > >  >  > > place:- Jodhpur Rajasthan > >  > >  >  > > > >  > >  >  > > sir one shows mars rahu combination in 10th and one > >  shows > >  > >  rahu in > >  > >  >  > 9th . > >  > >  >  > > > >  > >  >  > > i was always confused abt whom to follow. > >  > >  >  > > > >  > >  >  > > but if we consider mean node then too my chart changes > >  > and > >  > >  if i > >  > >  >  > consider true node then too my > >  > >  >  > > chart changes. > >  > >  >  > > > >  > >  >  > > but as far as for Miss astro. > >  > >  >  > > > >  > >  >  > > i wil say venus ketu combination is not > >  matching .because > >  > >  venus and > >  > >  >  > ketu dont give much better > >  > >  >  > > results as she is descibing. > >  > >  >  > > > >  > >  >  > > thanks and regards > >  > >  >  > > > >  > >  >  > > tarun > >  > >  >  > > > >  > >  >  > > > >  > >  >  > > > >  > >  >  > > > >  > >  >  > > --- crystal pages <rrgb@> wrote: > >  > >  >  > > > >  > >  >  > > > Tarun ji, > >  > >  >  > > > <my apologies for mistyping your name as Varun last > >  > time!> > >  > >  >  > > > > >  > >  >  > > > This is a very interesting situation indeed, because > >  > ketu > >  > >  and > >  > >  >  > venus > >  > >  >  > > > though in different signs are hardly 3 degrees apart > >  if > >  > >  using > >  > >  >  > Raman > >  > >  >  > > > ayanamsha, but if using Lahiri we run into another > >  > >  conundrum! > >  > >  >  > > > > >  > >  >  > > > If you are using true nodes, ketu and venus are in > >  same > >  > >  sign and > >  > >  >  > > > house (9th) > >  > >  >  > > > > >  > >  >  > > > BUT, if one is using mean nodes,then the two are in > >  > >  different > >  > >  >  > signs :- > >  > >  >  > > > ) > >  > >  >  > > > > >  > >  >  > > > Thanks Miss Astro for sharing this chart that brings > >  us > >  > >  against > >  > >  >  > yet > >  > >  >  > > > another wall in Jyotish -- "idhar jaaoon yaa udhar > >  > jaaoon - > >  > >  - > >  > >  >  > kidhar > >  > >  >  > > > jaoon?" as some poet said! :-) > >  > >  >  > > > > >  > >  >  > > > I am assuming that since you did not react strongly > >  and > >  > >  comment > >  > >  >  > on > >  > >  >  > > > the two being in different sign, that you utilize > >  true > >  > >  nodes? > >  > >  >  > > > > >  > >  >  > > > Ayanamsha, equal vs unequal houses, mean vs true > >  nodes, > >  > >  isn't > >  > >  >  > Jyotish > >  > >  >  > > > rich with material that will keep us all engaged for > >  > >  lifetimes? > >  > >  >  > How > >  > >  >  > > > much work there is to be done, by so few sincerely > >  > >  interested > >  > >  >  > > > individuals on this Jyotish Island! And yet some > >  would > >  > >  rather > >  > >  >  > keep > >  > >  >  > > > griping and whining about problems that do not exists > >  > but > >  > >  only > >  > >  >  > lie in > >  > >  >  > > > their (mis)perception! > >  > >  >  > > > > >  > >  >  > > > RR > >  > >  >  > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > >  > >  >  > > > , ~~Tarun~~ > >  > >  <tarun_vst@> > >  > >  >  > > > wrote: > >  > >  >  > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > Hii ??? > >  > >  >  > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > well love happens when 5th lord is strong. > >  > >  >  > > > > but first thing is that...frm which angle you find > >  > venus > >  > >  ketu > >  > >  >  > > > combination in his chart. > >  > >  >  > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > i m using lahiri ayanamsa to analyse. > >  > >  >  > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > he is spiritual because guru is aspecting lagna > >  even > >  > >  being > >  > >  >  > worst in > >  > >  >  > > > 7th house. > >  > >  >  > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > currently his buddha dasha is commencing which is > >  > lord > >  > >  3rd and > >  > >  >  > 6th > >  > >  >  > > > house. > >  > >  >  > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > one more combination of moon+mercury is in his > >  chart. > >  > >  and that > >  > >  >  > too > >  > >  >  > > > is a dobutful combination but > >  > >  >  > > > > as moon is in amavasya then its effects are null. > >  > >  >  > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > about love marriage...its impossible in his > >  chart.as > >  > >  mars in > >  > >  >  > 5th > >  > >  >  > > > house so it wont make him to do > >  > >  >  > > > > that. > >  > >  >  > > > > 7th lord and 9th lord has exchange and that will > >  > surely > >  > >  make > >  > >  >  > him to > >  > >  >  > > > get in arrange marriage. > >  > >  >  > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > i hope other astrologers will also guide my answers > >  > >  >  > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > well he himself know abt the effects of 5th mars > >  and > >  > 7th > >  > >  >  > jupiter as > >  > >  >  > > > per lal kitab. > >  > >  >  > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > Thanks and Best Regards > >  > >  >  > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > tarun. > >  > >  >  > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > --- miss_astro19 <miss_astro19@> wrote: > >  > >  >  > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > his chart > >  > >  >  > > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > dob--- 26/11/1981 > >  > >  >  > > > > > tob--- 16.08 > >  > >  >  > > > > > pob--- ajmer > >  > >  >  > > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > he is very very shy of girls, and with god > >  > blessings > >  > >  even > >  > >  >  > being > >  > >  >  > > > very > >  > >  >  > > > > > smart and intelligent no girl has got attracted > >  > >  towards him > >  > >  >  > to > >  > >  >  > > > > > distract him, and tht too in this age where any > >  boy > >  > >  can > >  > >  >  > easily > >  > >  >  > > > have a > >  > >  >  > > > > > gf. > >  > >  >  > > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > >  many astrologers told he will have a love > >  > >  marriage,but our > >  > >  >  > > > guruji > >  > >  >  > > > > > said tht his shukra his weakest, and jupiter in > >  7th > >  > >  wont > >  > >  >  > allow > >  > >  >  > > > him > >  > >  >  > > > > > marriage wht to say abt love marriage. > >  > >  >  > > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > he is an astrologer himself, and tht too very > >  good > >  > >  one, u > >  > >  >  > can > >  > >  >  > > > view > >  > >  >  > > > > > his posts on lalkitab group.. > >  > >  >  > > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > his dreams come true, he saw many world > >  happening > >  > >  much > >  > >  >  > before > >  > >  >  > > > they > >  > >  >  > > > > > occured in his derams, like worl trade towers > >  > >  crashing, > >  > >  >  > killing > >  > >  >  > > > of > >  > >  >  > > > > > abdul ghani loan, sunami etc. > >  > >  >  > > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > , > >  ~~Tarun~~ > >  > >  >  > <tarun_vst@> > >  > >  >  > > > > > wrote: > >  > >  >  > > > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > > Hii, > >  > >  >  > > > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > > well i cant say about him. But this combination > >  > >  often shows > >  > >  >  > the > >  > >  >  > > > > > described things. > >  > >  >  > > > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > > can u provide his chart so tht other > >  astrologers > >  > can > >  > >  find > >  > >  >  > it > >  > >  >  > > > out > >  > >  >  > > > > > the reason of him being good. > >  > >  >  > > > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > > Take care > >  > >  >  > > > > > > > >  > >  >  > > > > > > bye > >  > >  >  > > >  > >  >  === message truncated === > >  > >  > > >  > >  > > >  > >  >  Send instant messages to your online friends > >  > >  http://in.messenger. ["]http://in.messenger.] > >  > >  > > >  > >  > > >  > >  > > >  > >  > > >  > >  >  SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE DIVINITY AND > >  > >  RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > >  > >  > > >  > >  > > >  > >  > > >  > > > > >  > >  > > >  > >  >          Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 I always presumed that they used topocentric positions because that will give the drig position. Jyotish is based on the What you see is what you get zodiac so the planet-body as seen from a point of interest on the earth (city, town) would make sense. Which always has led to the intriguing possibility -- if a person is born on earth but moves to a future colony in space would the relocated chart apply more? The same is claimed by some for people who moved from one country to another. I have not made a lot of study of that but generally speaking the natal chart seems to work for most who move around on the globe. I was kind of sold on the true nodes early on triggered by NC Lahiri's statements in his ephemeris making a logical case for using true positions of nodes as well, just like for other planets. I have never really pitted mean against true to see if one is definitely better than the other. Some people, though, make a very black and white case against true or mean positions. Perhaps they have carried out the work -- I don't know. When it comes to astrology, I realize the multifactorial nature of its operation and therefore, unless something is really broken consistently, I do not tweak or fine tune things. RR , Prafulla Gang <jyotish> wrote: > > Dear Ranjan ji > > There must be some reasoning in local panchang makers to use topocentric calculations, whereas computerized chart makers takers sets to default values of geocentric basis. I understand, the problems in tracing correct ayanamsa; and you correctly said - if the problem existed say 500 years back. > > When we normally consider planets as true position (not apparent one); then should not we also, consider rahu / ketu in true position (instead of mean position). I am sure, may of members, must have tossed the possible alternatives, prior to fixing some of the variables in chart computation. > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > No person was ever honored for what he received. > Honor has been the reward for what he gave. > > > > > > rrgb > > Sat, 03 Jun 2006 22:07:55 -0000 > > > > Re: before Lahiri which one? 2/6 p2 > > > > Yes Prafulla, that kind of calculation takes the parallax error into > > consideration. It is most significant for moon (closest body) and > > lesser for other planets. Depending on the angular position of the > > moon (rising, setting, medium coeli or nadir) the PE can be as high > > as more than a degree amounting to a difference of upto a couple of > > years if the moon is in the star of one of the longer duration > > planets (venus, shani etc). > > RR > > , Prafulla Gang <jyotish@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear members > > > > > > there is another variation in ayanamsa - calculating geocentric > > (taking from the center of earth...can someone find the center of a > > ball) or topocentric (taking from the place of birth). In my > > interactions with few local panchang writers, I observed the use of > > topocentric calculations. Perhaps, that is one of the major > > difference in different local panchangs. > > > > > > regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > No person was ever honored for what he received. > > > Honor has been the reward for what he gave. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gbp_kumar@ > > > > Sat, 3 Jun 2006 01:00:21 -0700 (PDT) > > > > > > > > Re: Re: before Lahiri which one? 2/6 p2 > > > > > > > > RR Ji, > > > > Â I have also said close to waht u said on the major > > contributionf oh > > > > Lahiri is the standardisation at least fo Hindu calander unlike > > Islam, i > > > > sno mean achievemtn esp with the odds he was up against. esp th > > snakes > > > > panchangams > > > > Â and now all we hat to do is work on the BASE LINE which is > > Lahiris > > > > +/- xx ded xx mi sssec say raman 1 Deg 26 min 26 sec. > > Krishnnamurthy 0 > > > > deg 0 min 7' les to Lahiri. > > > > Â And is also nice that you did find some matter to look at and > > > > appriciate as well apart from content the analagy, this spirit I > > also > > > > felt was needed when we did discuss Guru, becasue we do wrtie > > with a few > > > > points, medtods, quotes and do expect them also to be commented > > good or > > > > bad no problem and any suppliments or deletins we will like to > > be > > > > correced as we are always learning. weleanr till we pass out of > > this > > > > world. > > > > Â And I always believe the traditions laid before us are > > elastic and > > > > not plastic, to accept any modifications of the rules with the > > times it > > > > is applied without over ruling or destroying the original > > spirit of the > > > > subject, > > > > crystal pages <rrgb@> wrote:       Dear Satish ji, > > > > Â Though Sri Nirmal Chandra Lahiri is noted for his ayanamsha > > (which he > > > > Â never called his own but simply pinned it to the star Chitra > > or > > > > Â Spica -- hence properly named as Chitra navamsha. Similar > > > > Â misnomenclature also exists for the so called Yukteshwar > > ayanamsha. > > > > Â Even more so, since unlike Lahiri, Yukteshwar Giri ji Maharaj > > did not > > > > Â calculate or establish that ayanamsha but merely stated that > > it was > > > > Â according to astronomical books -- possibly prevailing > > panchangs > > > > Â followed by him). All this has been written with more > > interesting > > > > Â similarities between it and Raman ayanamsha in earlier posts, > > etc. > > > > Â Anyway, much more important than the ayanamsha he gave us, > > Lahiri's > > > > Â primary contribution to the field of jyotish related > > astronomy is the > > > > Â bringing out of accurate epehmeris/panchangs which were based > > on > > > > Â mathematical calculations with modern terms and corrections > > given by > > > > Â astrophysics. With Lahiri's ephemeris starting in 30s or > > thereabouts > > > > Â the wild variabilities that characterized all but a few rare > > > > Â panchaangs became a thing of past and more importantly, > > others were > > > > Â forced to follow suit and fine-tune their 'act'. Publishing > > just > > > > Â anything and calling it a panchanng or panjika would not do, > > any > > > > Â more! > > > > Â That, to me is the major contribution of Lahiri. > > > > Â Kumarji gave a beautiful analogy, or different ayanamshas > > being like > > > > Â vision-correcting glasses. Mine would not work for you, yours > > would > > > > Â not work for me! My own that worked ten years do not work for > > me > > > > Â anymore <LOL> > > > > Â RR > > > > Â , "R Satish" > > <rsatish1942@> > > > > Â wrote: > > > > Â > > > > > Â > > > > > Â > Dear Friends, > > > > Â > > > > > Â >  Mentioning about Lahiri's Ayanamsa,remimded about my > > experience > > > > Â > with a hard core Vedic scholar,from a place called > > Kotipalli,on the > > > > Â > banks of Godavari in East Godavari Dt. > > > > Â > > > > > Â >  This Brahmin,80 +yrs runs a Vedic Patshala which > > trains Hindu > > > > Â > Priests for performimg various poojas etcand is residential > > school. > > > > Â > > > > > Â >  When the subject of Ayanamsa came up,I had mentioned to > > him about > > > > Â > the pabnchang difference between a Kakinada panchang and > > Lahiri's > > > > Â > ayanamsa. He emphatically stated that Lahiri succumbed to > > the then > > > > Â > govt's pressure manipulating the ephemeris.He stated there > > is a > > > > Â > difference of" one pada",between the local panchang.Hence a > > > > Â > differneceof nearly 6-8 month's is not uncommon.I had > > gone to him > > > > Â > to discuss my son's horoscope,about 3/4 yrs ago.Even in > > my case, > > > > Â > there is a diffence of exactly one year in the balance of > > Chandra > > > > Â > dasa,I have not been to reconcile this difference. > > > > Â > > > > > Â > As stated by you stalwarts,finally it boils down to one's > > > > Â experience. > > > > Â > Fnaticism does not serve much purpose to the cause of > > astrology. > > > > Â > > > > > Â >  This is one of my several experiemces with the' > > stalwarts' . > > > > Â > > > > > Â > > > > > Â > Regards, > > > > Â > > > > > Â >  Satish > > > > Â > > > > > Â > > > > > Â > > > > > Â > > > > > Â > > > > > Â > > > > > Â > > > > > Â > > > > > Â > > > > > Â > > > > > Â > > > > > Â > > > > > Â > > > > > Â > > > > > Â > > > > > Â > > > > > Â > > > > > Â > , Prashant Kumar G B > > > > Â > <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > Â > > > > > > Â > > Dear Pandit Arjun ji, > > > > Â > > > > > > Â > >  I have also shared some of these inputs directly and > > indirectly > > > > Â > with many in person and in the groups like these the > > most > > > > Â > remarkable one being of ICAS founder Secy sri Late K. > > Ashwattappa, > > > > Â > who had contemopt for Raman like all others here as it was > > > > Â > fashionable to do so by ciritising any pouplar person, > > and so for > > > > Â > his ayanamsa MOST OF HIS critics do not even know the > > difference > > > > Â > between Lahiri and Raman's in terms of deg- min- sec and > > MAJORITY > > > > Â > HAVE NEVER TESTED IT either, just prejueice, jealous of > > him. > > > > Â > > > > > > Â > >  But my association with him for over 15 yrs he felt > > he must try > > > > Â > it and did test them randomly and fouind in many cases > > Rahu Dasa > > > > Â or > > > > Â > Ketu Dasa at the end giving Good results than their > > earlier part > > > > Â > once he shifted the ayanamsa found it is Guru, or Sukra > > periods > > > > Â that > > > > Â > gave the right results as Subha phala need not wait til > > then end > > > > Â of > > > > Â > the dasa to deliver. eve Ketu or Rahu if well place can > > give at > > > > Â > start not in tail end. THIS I HAVE THE BENIFIT OF MNEXT > > GURU S > > > > Â > SUBBANNA, AWHO GOT IT FROM HIS GURU they are Mysore > > Maharaja's > > > > Â > asthana Jyotishis for generations. > > > > Â > > > > > > Â > >  SO ANYONE WITH AN OPEN MID IF THEY TYR IT CAN GET > > GOOD RESULTS > > > > Â it > > > > Â > is open to them no vested interests, except that we want > > the > > > > Â subject > > > > Â > to have its good tols an dusers benifit if they try, it is > > > > Â possible > > > > Â > they can stillg et good results in this or anyother left > > to ones > > > > Â > intution, instincts, knowledge, in RAMAN' success we know > > we ar > > > > Â > einthe right track so lets move along, and he hsued the > > > > Â traditional > > > > Â > ones which even westerners beofe his birth have > > acknowledged as > > > > Â the > > > > Â > genius of INDIAN TRADITION's (Vedic) RICHNESS. > > > > Â > > > > > > Â > > > > > > Â > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote:       > > dear prashant ji > > > > Â > > > > > > Â > >  is is so nice of you to share your astro knolwedge > > from your > > > > Â > three > > > > Â > >  decades of experience and since you are one of the > > founding > > > > Â > members > > > > Â > >  of ICAS, your inputs are always lessons for amateurs. > > > > Â > > > > > > Â > >  earlier i was using lahiri for the past several years > > and > > > > Â > sometimes > > > > Â > >  i did not get them right inlcuidng my own. however, > > after your > > > > Â > >  advise, i started using raman's ayanamsha and am > > getting the > > > > Â > charts, > > > > Â > >  especially dasa periods, more accurately. > > unfortunately, these > > > > Â > >  ayanamashas can make or break a chart. > > > > Â > > > > > > Â > >  with best wishes > > > > Â > >  pandit arjun > > > > Â > > > > > > Â > >  , Prashant > > Kumar G B > > > > Â > >  <gbp_kumar@> wrote: > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  > Hi Tarun > > > > Â > >  >  I had replied to you, there were 33 Ayanansa's > > in vouge > > > > Â prior > > > > Â > to > > > > Â > >  Lahiri stepping in and pushing his own, this is > > like a judge > > > > Â who > > > > Â > >  could not undersand the case but yet gave a verdit. > > HIS OWN. > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  >  the reason is numerous claims and counter > > claims to deal > > > > Â with > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  >  esp in Tamil Nadu then Madras Province it more > > a tamil > > > > Â > centric > > > > Â > >  problem there are quite a few thoughts based on > > their EQ [ego > > > > Â > >  quotient] > > > > Â > >  >  where most of them are based on hapazard Vakya > > panchang no > > > > Â > >  corrections took place ever and if a mistake was > > made by one > > > > Â in > > > > Â > the > > > > Â > >  family chain it continued as it was a brand name so > > no way you > > > > Â > can > > > > Â > >  dispute it.  there was Madurai, Kanchipuram, > > Srirangam, > > > > Â Tenkasi > > > > Â > >  etc groups each had a different Panbu panchangam > > [or snake > > > > Â > >  calander] quite different from others. and say > > could not > > > > Â agree > > > > Â > >  comming from one state where will the reminder in > > India agree? > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  >  Even the tamils themselves had Gochara of Major > > planets at > > > > Â > >  different months variation, eclipses and all others > > in chaos. > > > > Â no > > > > Â > >  scientific basis. Lahiri brought in the Drik or > > verifiable one > > > > Â > >  which is caliculated on established astronomical > > principles at > > > > Â > least. > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  >  about TAMIL EGO QUOTENT if I follow the lead of > > RR here on > > > > Â > >  storry telling these are true ones though > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  >  DURIGN THE BRITISH RAJ DAYS THE SUPREME COURT > > WAS IN LONDON > > > > Â > or > > > > Â > >  Privay Council as it was called. dealt with a case > > of Iyangars > > > > Â a > > > > Â > >  group of Brahmins of the Vishnavas there are 2 > > groups in them > > > > Â > >  Vadagalai [Northern] and Thengalai [southern] in > > a temple > > > > Â > function > > > > Â > >  there was a dispute how to Mark the temple > > elephant's > > > > Â forehaead > > > > Â > >  with a Y or U shaped Mark of the Vaishnava mark > > > > Â > >  >  [Vadagalis Mark it as U and Tehengalais s Y > > with a middle > > > > Â > line > > > > Â > >  in red] > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  >  they had enough street brawls as Tamils do and > > finally went > > > > Â > to > > > > Â > >  the PC [prviy council]. so that being the case you > > can never > > > > Â say > > > > Â > >  Lahiri had a easy job at least he standadrised our > > calander > > > > Â but > > > > Â > >  Islam is free in India each state Imam can see > > the same > > > > Â Moon's > > > > Â > >  crecent on a different days and have a different > > holiday the > > > > Â > state > > > > Â > >  and Central govt has. all laws are fo Hindus only. > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  >  BTW the Tamil EQ's latest M karunadhi and > > former CM. Ms > > > > Â JJ, > > > > Â > >  are meeting in the assembly after 17 yrs normally > > the other > > > > Â one > > > > Â > >  resigns if they loose and don't face each other > > directly. > > > > Â their > > > > Â > mud > > > > Â > >  slinging is of unique depths. > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  > ~~Tarun~~ <tarun_vst@> wrote:       Dear RR > > ji, > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  >  yes Shri Nirmal Chandra Lahiri ji lived in > > calcutta but > > > > Â since > > > > Â > >  varanasi was key centre for > > > > Â > >  >  astrology so the calculations were observed and > > studied as > > > > Â > par > > > > Â > >  Varanasi.(as wht i know) > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  >  Actually sometimes a question arises that what > > panchang was > > > > Â > used > > > > Â > >  before lahiri placed his > > > > Â > >  >  ayanamasa, what was the base of calculations > > used while > > > > Â > making > > > > Â > >  chart in ancient times. > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  >  i think this question is still unanswered. > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  >  Thanks and Regards > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  >  Tarun > > > > Â > >  >  www.thevinayak.com > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  >  --- crystal pages <rrgb@> wrote: > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  >  > I think Nirmal Chandra Lahiri ji lived in > > Calcutta and > > > > Â not > > > > Â > >  Varanasi! > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > Â > >  >  > Not that it makes that big a difference > > longitudinally or > > > > Â > >  >  > latitudinally but could mean several hours of > > journey, if > > > > Â I > > > > Â > >  remember > > > > Â > >  >  > correctly between Baba Vishwanath or > > Sankatmochan or > > > > Â Birla > > > > Â > >  temple and > > > > Â > >  >  > oh say Dakshineshwar or Kalibari! ;-) > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > Â > >  >  > RR > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > Â > >  >  > , > > ~~Tarun~~ > > > > Â > >  <tarun_vst@> > > > > Â > >  >  > wrote: > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > Dear RR ji, > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > no problem at all. you are very senior to > > me. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > sir even in my chart i have the same prob.. > > if i use > > > > Â > raman > > > > Â > >  ayanamsa > > > > Â > >  >  > my dasha changes by 18 months. > > > > Â > >  >  > > the rahu placement in my chart also changes. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > actually raman livd in south india and his > > location was > > > > Â > much > > > > Â > >  near > > > > Â > >  >  > to equator in comparison to > > > > Â > >  >  > > Kashi viswanath (base frm where Lahiri gave > > his > > > > Â > >  calculations) so > > > > Â > >  >  > the diff is easily expected. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > my dob 19-07-1983 > > > > Â > >  >  > > time:- 10.35 am > > > > Â > >  >  > > place:- Jodhpur Rajasthan > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > sir one shows mars rahu combination in 10th > > and one > > > > Â shows > > > > Â > >  rahu in > > > > Â > >  >  > 9th . > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > i was always confused abt whom to follow. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > but if we consider mean node then too my > > chart changes > > > > Â > and > > > > Â > >  if i > > > > Â > >  >  > consider true node then too my > > > > Â > >  >  > > chart changes. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > but as far as for Miss astro. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > i wil say venus ketu combination is not > > > > Â matching .because > > > > Â > >  venus and > > > > Â > >  >  > ketu dont give much better > > > > Â > >  >  > > results as she is descibing. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > thanks and regards > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > tarun > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > --- crystal pages <rrgb@> wrote: > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > Tarun ji, > > > > Â > >  >  > > > <my apologies for mistyping your name as > > Varun last > > > > Â > time!> > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > This is a very interesting situation > > indeed, because > > > > Â > ketu > > > > Â > >  and > > > > Â > >  >  > venus > > > > Â > >  >  > > > though in different signs are hardly 3 > > degrees apart > > > > Â if > > > > Â > >  using > > > > Â > >  >  > Raman > > > > Â > >  >  > > > ayanamsha, but if using Lahiri we run > > into another > > > > Â > >  conundrum! > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > If you are using true nodes, ketu and > > venus are in > > > > Â same > > > > Â > >  sign and > > > > Â > >  >  > > > house (9th) > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > BUT, if one is using mean nodes,then the > > two are in > > > > Â > >  different > > > > Â > >  >  > signs :- > > > > Â > >  >  > > > ) > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > Thanks Miss Astro for sharing this chart > > that brings > > > > Â us > > > > Â > >  against > > > > Â > >  >  > yet > > > > Â > >  >  > > > another wall in Jyotish -- "idhar jaaoon > > yaa udhar > > > > Â > jaaoon - > > > > Â > >  - > > > > Â > >  >  > kidhar > > > > Â > >  >  > > > jaoon?" as some poet said! :-) > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > I am assuming that since you did not > > react strongly > > > > Â and > > > > Â > >  comment > > > > Â > >  >  > on > > > > Â > >  >  > > > the two being in different sign, that you > > utilize > > > > Â true > > > > Â > >  nodes? > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > Ayanamsha, equal vs unequal houses, mean > > vs true > > > > Â nodes, > > > > Â > >  isn't > > > > Â > >  >  > Jyotish > > > > Â > >  >  > > > rich with material that will keep us all > > engaged for > > > > Â > >  lifetimes? > > > > Â > >  >  > How > > > > Â > >  >  > > > much work there is to be done, by so few > > sincerely > > > > Â > >  interested > > > > Â > >  >  > > > individuals on this Jyotish Island! And > > yet some > > > > Â would > > > > Â > >  rather > > > > Â > >  >  > keep > > > > Â > >  >  > > > griping and whining about problems that > > do not exists > > > > Â > but > > > > Â > >  only > > > > Â > >  >  > lie in > > > > Â > >  >  > > > their (mis)perception! > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > RR > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > , > > ~~Tarun~~ > > > > Â > >  <tarun_vst@> > > > > Â > >  >  > > > wrote: > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > Hii ??? > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > well love happens when 5th lord is > > strong. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > but first thing is that...frm which > > angle you find > > > > Â > venus > > > > Â > >  ketu > > > > Â > >  >  > > > combination in his chart. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > i m using lahiri ayanamsa to analyse. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > he is spiritual because guru is > > aspecting lagna > > > > Â even > > > > Â > >  being > > > > Â > >  >  > worst in > > > > Â > >  >  > > > 7th house. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > currently his buddha dasha is > > commencing which is > > > > Â > lord > > > > Â > >  3rd and > > > > Â > >  >  > 6th > > > > Â > >  >  > > > house. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > one more combination of moon+mercury is > > in his > > > > Â chart. > > > > Â > >  and that > > > > Â > >  >  > too > > > > Â > >  >  > > > is a dobutful combination but > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > as moon is in amavasya then its effects > > are null. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > about love marriage...its impossible in > > his > > > > Â chart.as > > > > Â > >  mars in > > > > Â > >  >  > 5th > > > > Â > >  >  > > > house so it wont make him to do > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > that. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > 7th lord and 9th lord has exchange and > > that will > > > > Â > surely > > > > Â > >  make > > > > Â > >  >  > him to > > > > Â > >  >  > > > get in arrange marriage. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > i hope other astrologers will also > > guide my answers > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > well he himself know abt the effects of > > 5th mars > > > > Â and > > > > Â > 7th > > > > Â > >  >  > jupiter as > > > > Â > >  >  > > > per lal kitab. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > Thanks and Best Regards > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > tarun. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > --- miss_astro19 <miss_astro19@> wrote: > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > his chart > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > dob--- 26/11/1981 > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > tob--- 16.08 > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > pob--- ajmer > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > he is very very shy of girls, and > > with god > > > > Â > blessings > > > > Â > >  even > > > > Â > >  >  > being > > > > Â > >  >  > > > very > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > smart and intelligent no girl has got > > attracted > > > > Â > >  towards him > > > > Â > >  >  > to > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > distract him, and tht too in this age > > where any > > > > Â boy > > > > Â > >  can > > > > Â > >  >  > easily > > > > Â > >  >  > > > have a > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > gf. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > >  many astrologers told he will > > have a love > > > > Â > >  marriage,but our > > > > Â > >  >  > > > guruji > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > said tht his shukra his weakest, and > > jupiter in > > > > Â 7th > > > > Â > >  wont > > > > Â > >  >  > allow > > > > Â > >  >  > > > him > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > marriage wht to say abt love marriage. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > he is an astrologer himself, and > > tht too very > > > > Â good > > > > Â > >  one, u > > > > Â > >  >  > can > > > > Â > >  >  > > > view > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > his posts on lalkitab group.. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > his dreams come true, he saw many > > world > > > > Â happening > > > > Â > >  much > > > > Â > >  >  > before > > > > Â > >  >  > > > they > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > occured in his derams, like worl > > trade towers > > > > Â > >  crashing, > > > > Â > >  >  > killing > > > > Â > >  >  > > > of > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > abdul ghani loan, sunami etc. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > --- In > > , > > > > Â ~~Tarun~~ > > > > Â > >  >  > <tarun_vst@> > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > wrote: > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > Hii, > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > well i cant say about him. But this > > combination > > > > Â > >  often shows > > > > Â > >  >  > the > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > described things. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > can u provide his chart so tht other > > > > Â astrologers > > > > Â > can > > > > Â > >  find > > > > Â > >  >  > it > > > > Â > >  >  > > > out > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > the reason of him being good. > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > Take care > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > > bye > > > > Â > >  >  > > > > > Â > >  >  === message truncated === > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  >  Send instant messages to your online friends > > > > Â > >  http://in.messenger. > > ["]http://in.messenger.] > > ["]http://in.messenger.] []"]http://in.messenger.]] > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  >  SURRENDER JOYFULLY TO THE WILL OF THE ULTIMATE > > DIVINITY AND > > > > Â > >  RELISH THE TASTE OF ABSOLUTE BLISS. > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > > > > > > > Â > >  > > > > > Â > >  >          Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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