Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Thanks so much for getting this information. I'm not sure they know too much about oxen, as there are a number of Brown Swiss successfully working in Latin America. Not sure about other Taurean breeds. Then again, I believe they do need to be aclimatized for a couple generations -- so maybe he is right after all. Horses usually don't do well as a draft animal in hot climates. They get diseases -- which is why oxen continued to be the draft animal of choice in Italy and Greece long after horses had taken over northern Europe. And which is why they remain prefered to horses in most tropical countries. Not sure about the shoeing arrangements. I think that devotees used to use rubber shoes for oxen on the US Padayatra in the 1980s. But considering that these devotees are much more expert with horses than with oxen, I think their decision to use horses was probably for the best. Also, I do think they would have run into more USDA restrictions trying to take oxen across state lines. ys hkdd Kalavatidevi108 (AT) aol (DOT) com wrote: >Hare Krishna everyone. I just received this very nice reply from Padayatra >America. I had written them regarding their use of horses instead of oxen. >Interestingly, the prabhu doesn't even mention laws or diseases, but explains >many other practical reasons, as to the reasoning behind the decision to use >horses. > >------------------------------ >Content-Type: message/rfc822 > >Return-Path: <padayatra (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> >Received: from rly-xk02.mx.aol.com (rly-xk02.mail.aol.com [172.20.83.39]) by >air-xk01.mail.aol.com (v97.18) with ESMTP id MAILINXK12-57f401e8cd019a; Mon, 02 >Feb 2004 12:46:40 -0500 >Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net >[207.217.120.46]) by rly-xk02.mx.aol.com (v97.10) with ESMTP id >MAILRELAYINXK27-57f401e8cd019a; Mon, 02 Feb 2004 12:46:15 -0500 >Received: from huey.psp.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.78.220]) > by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) > id 1Ani8j-0001PJ-00 > for kalavatidevi108 (AT) aol (DOT) com; Mon, 02 Feb 2004 09:45:41 -0800 >Message-ID: <19333578.1075743941438.JavaMail.root (AT) huey (DOT) psp.pas.earthlink.net> >Mon, 2 Feb 2004 12:45:29 -0500 (GMT-05:00) >gauranga <padayatra (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> >gauranga <padayatra (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> >kalavatidevi108 (AT) aol (DOT) com >Padayatra america >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Mailer: Earthlink Zoo Mail 1.0 >X-AOL-IP: 207.217.120.46 > >dEAR kalavati devi matalli > > > >Please accept my humble obeisances >all glories to SRila Prabhupada > > >yes, the local padaytars are doing very nice SRi SRi Nitai gourasundar-Lord >Nrshimhadev are inspiring so many devotes every week [between 80 to 100]; we >will be in alachua till march then if Their Lordship bless us continuo towar >New talavama - Mexico. > > why horses insted of oxens; there is few reason, after doing >reserch in UNiversities , talking with devortes,padayatras lideres fron >previous >experiences , and expet in the mater, we come to the conclution that oxen- >american breeds are not good >for work in tropical-hot weather as will be most of the time where Padayatra >will be[south usa , >mexico centro and south of america]; the only breed that can tolerate higth >temperatures is braman[from india] thier constitution is cientificatly >diferent that all other breeds, for exemplo they can perspirate by the skin as >horses do , the rest of breed only perspirate by the tongh-MOUTH wich don't >allow them to recuperate as quick in hot wether; so here in America was not >posible to find bramans with training [ our priority is to go out to preach >insted of spend 3 years training and oxen] ; in the other hand horses can >tolerate much >better higth temperatures ; >another reason is the shooing[put shoes in their feets] of the oxens is >very dificult because the oxen can not stand in 3 legs therefore you >need to trow them to the floor which meens a lot o dificulties, also the >oxen have a very thin hoof-wall in comparation whit horses meening that thier >hoof-wall will be quicker deteriorate in a hard surface work[as we do 15 to 20 >miles a day]; devotes of >previous experience in USa and south America have a lot of bad >experience with this two point[hot wheater and shoes].; in the other hand >horses if you >teach them to trust you they will stand in three legs[oxens NEVER will do >this] for long time meaning you do the job in a smooth way ; > >so after 1200 miles -1950 km we have not doubt that this was and exelent >desition, Their Lordship choose Kana- Balaji Das[devotes-horses] to do this >novel service ;this team of hhorse-devotes, have been working every day in >temperatures betwen 35 F till 110 F with out problem , their hoof are very >good and their disposition to travel is greet!! they LOve to serve This >Sankirtan Mission!!! > > > the more important reason for this success .. senior Vaisnavas blees us!! >meaning that the LOrd; >Si Sri Nitay Gourasundar and Lrd Nrshimha chosse them to do this >service. > >please keep us in your prayers!! >your servant in Prabhupada's padayatra >Avadhuta Siromani d >HARE KRSNA >PS/ IF YOU NEED ANYTHING ELSE ..PLEASE WRITE TO US!1 > >i > > >----------------------- >To from this mailing list, send an email to: >Cow-Owner (AT) pamho (DOT) net > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 If they had really done their research, they might have gotten mules instead of horses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 The horses they have are exquisitely beautiful. I am personally a great lover of mules and especially burros, however I think most people will be more attracted to two georgous horses, causing them to come closer to the cart, closer to the dieties on the cart. I think their choice was quite fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 Mark Middle Mountain wrote: >If they had really done their research, they might have gotten mules instead >of horses. > > Whoo-eee! I'm just reading the part in the Ramayana where Bharata is about to be summoned back to Ayodha to oversee the funeral of his father, King Dasaratha. He has not yet received any word that his father has died. But he is very worried because he had a dream about his father being pulled on a cart drawn by donkeys. He states that everyone knows that a dream like that means the person you are dreaming about is going to die. (Of course I didn't know it.) I guess it's considered very inauspicious -- which no doubt is why Ravana drives a chariot drawns by donkeys. However, in the real world, donkeys are really not necessarily inauspicious. Even in Krsna's pastimes they are mentioned. However, it doesn't seem like having the Deities cart drawn by donkeys or mules would go over too well when he passes through various areas which have more of a Hindu concentration. I imagine that the horses are more acceptable. ys hkdd > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2004 Report Share Posted February 3, 2004 The mule recommendation was concerning working in the heat, where they are superior to horses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2004 Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 - Mark Middle Mountain <gourdmad (AT) ovnet (DOT) com> Tuesday, February 3, 2004 6:01 pm Re: Fwd: Padayatra america > > The mule recommendation was concerning working in the heat, where > they are > superior to horses. I understood the practicality of that proposal, but given what I had just been reading about Vedic traditions, I thought that the response might be interesting to see. ys hkdd > > > ----------------------- > To from this mailing list, send an email to: > Cow-Owner (AT) pamho (DOT) net > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2004 Report Share Posted February 8, 2004 Hare krsna, Here's more information on the four legged padayatris walking in America, written by Candrabhaga mataji: Internet: "candrabhaga dasi" <candrabhagad (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> 27-Jan-04 20:31 Vrndavana Lila (dd) LOK (Los Angeles, CA - USA) [2844] RE: padayatra worldwide newsletter --------------------------- In regards to the horses, yes it is important that the animals that pull the Lord be properly trained. Of course an animal is always unpredictable to a certain extent (correborated by the Srimad Bhagavatam) however by knowing the particular nature you may trust more or less accordingly. We worked with the Amish community situated very close to the Gita-Nagari village. They are the #1 experts on self-sufficiency and farming. The original team Goverdhan and Kana were matched by us, and they both had years of farming experience. As a rule the horses are broken at the age of 3 years and taught basics, then work in summer plowing/cutting hay;winter pulling logs/spreading fertilizer. Goverdhan was 11 years old and as dependable as can be. Kana is 8 years and is very dhira by nature; they made a good team. Balaji came in Virginia and is 9 years. He spent 4 years farming and 2 years competition pulling (sport). His highest win was a weight of 8,000 kilos. This was also an important consideration for us. We don't use van or advance party, so the horses have to be competent to carry everything we will require. As a rule an animal can carry his own weight comfortably (on wheels) and in good working shape can go 15-20 miles a day. We started out 8-10 miles and as they got endurance gradually increased. Goverdhan's story shows his noble character -- coming through Mineral Virginia one morning Goverdhan manifested some pain so we stopped that day and called a vet (he was too inexperienced, but at least correborated that he could not continue) It was Krsna's arrangement one more time because He sent Mrs. Lee who lived only 3 miles away. She took us to her farm and we stayed there for 5 weeks locating Balaji. The incident confirmed what we had a suspicion about- Goverdhan had a weak bone structure in his front feet that could not tolerate the intense impact day after day on the pavement. So, with mixed feelings, we retired Goverdhan there with her other 2 draft horses. (more on it at the padayatra website-journal) We traveled on secondary highways, which means 2-lane roads on which the speed limit is 55-65 mph. A seperate permit or insurance is not required for slow moving vehicles under 40 mph. From what i understand (hearing my husband's account of the research) there was a law repealed in the 1960's specifically dealing with horse-drawn vehicles/farm machinery that gives equal rights on any public road excluding interstate highways. The only requirement is a slow-moving vehicle sign in the form of a flourescent triangle situated at the back of the vehicle (where it can be seen). www.padayatraamerica.com your servant in Srila Prabhupada's service, candrabhaga dasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.