Idol Worship

May 30, 2006

The statue or photo is the inert object. The form carved in a stone

or painted on a paper is also an imaginary form and not even a

direct photo. The statues and photos are only models representing

the concept, which is knowledge. The form of statues and photos is

mainly human form, which represents the concept that the Lord always

comes to this world in human form as said in Gita (Manusheem Tanu

Masritam). Please remember that Gita did not tell that the Lord

would come in any other form. The forms of fish, tortoise etc., were

only temporarily to kill the demons and nobody worshipped such forms

during their time. But Rama, Krishna etc were the human forms

worshipped by several devotees like Hanuman and Gopikas. The Lord

will come in every human generation; otherwise, He becomes partial

to a particular generation. If necessary the Lord can come whenever

there is necessity as said in Gita (Yedaa yedaahi).

Once this concept is realized, there is no need of temple and statue

for you. You should go from school to college and then to

university. This does not mean that when you leave the school, the

school should be destroyed. The school must exist for the future

batches. Therefore for you, the statue and the photo are not

necessary and this does not mean that the statues, photos and

temples should be broken. They should be protected and must be

respected as the models of divine knowledge for the future ignorant

devotees. Some devotees cannot accept the human form, which is

before their eyes as said in Veda (Pratyaksha dvishah).

For such devotees the statues and photos are necessary for

meditation since they are at the school level. The statues and

photos are useful for the meditation of such limited minds as said

in Sastra (Pratima svalpa buddhinam). Veda says that the Lord does

not exist in the inert objects (Natasya pratima, Nedamtat), but says

that the inert objects can stand as models representing the Lord

(Adityam brahmeti). Therefore seeing and meditation upon the statues

and photos are correct in the case of the ignorant devotees. But the

other rituals like offering food, burning camphor, fume sticks, oil

lamps and breaking coconuts, offering flowers etc. are not mentioned

in Vedas and there are unnecessary and are causing the air pollution

harming the humanity. All these unnecessary rituals should be

avoided.

Offering food should also be done to the human form of the Lord only

but not to the inert statues. Ijya or Yajna is cooking and offering

of the food. Gita says that such Ijya should not be done to the

inert objects. In the name of the statues, people are stealing the

food and money. The statue and photo is not taking the food or

Gurudakshina. The people behind the statue are taking those things

and most of them are either cheating or wasting the money with

ignorance. Whatever the Gurudakshina is given should go only to the

priest and not the managing devotees. The business of the merchants

by selling such materials in the temples should be stopped, because

such materials are not even heard in Veda. Of course, the priest

should be a Satguru and preach the divine knowledge to the devotees

and the devotees should give Gurudakshina to such Satguru only.

Thus, the temple should become a center of learning selfless

devotion and divine knowledge and the priest must do only `Jnana

Yajna' in the temple and not the `dravya yajna' as said in the Gita

(Sreyaan dravyamayat).

Gita condemned such Ijya before inert objects because such Ijya is

only cheating and business. Such a devotee will be born as inert

object (Bhutejya yanti). This business is connected to removal of

the fruits of sins and getting the fruits of good deeds, which are

not done. All this is false, because the theory of `karma' says

that one has to suffer for all his bad deeds and can never get the

result of any good deed without doing it (Avasyamanubhoktavyam…

kalpakotisatairapi). The spiritual path should be preached in the

temple, which must be `nishkama karma yoga' i.e., sacrifice of work

and sacrifice of fruit (money) of the work to the Lord without

aspiring any fruit in return. Remember, that only the Ijya is

condemned and not the temples or statues, which are the models of

the divine knowledge.

posted by: His servant

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

www.universal-spirituality.org

May 31, 2006

"Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology> wrote:

> Namaskaar Sri Srivastavaji

>

> One never prays to an idol. Noone worships an idol. I haven't seen

a single person worship an idol. All I have seen are people

worshiping Bhagawan in all its rupas. This rupa could be of the

material of stone, human, animal, plant, thought, imagination, or

else.

>

> This principle is in every part of our living. A simple Namaskaar

is recognizing the Lord as you. A tilak on your forehead means the

same. It is this bhava that is part of our daily life. As Sri

Ramanarayanan has aptly put it in another post, one can

mechanically do the above or remember the bhava.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

If Lord also remembers you (maintains good bhava in His mind)and do

not do anything practically, will you be happy? When food or

anything is shown to idol, it is not a real worship as we ourselves

are eating it. Lord is not eating a trace of it. When the material

of the rupa is stone, it is called as Idol worship.

Q) You are advising homogeneity in action, words and mind in front

of Lord?

I advised homogeneity before the Lord in the spiritual effort. I

never told that you should be homogeneous in this world. Lord

Krishna told Dharma Raja to tell a lie in order to kill Dronacharya.

Lord Krishna tells in that context, that one should cheat the

cheaters in the world. Lord Krishna says "If you go into the world

of Maya without Maya, you will be killed as a soldier who goes to

the war without armor on the body". When you are associating with

Maya for the sake of the world for a long time, the Maya enters your

nature. You are showing the same Maya before the Lord.

You are treating the Lord as an outsider and also as a cheater. He

never cheated you. He gave you this human birth even though your

file of Karma recommends the birth of animals. He gave the

longevity, health and wealth and protected you several times in your

life. Why should you cheat Him? You are not cheating your family

members. Can't you equalize the Lord at least with your family

members? If Maya affects you continuously, why are you not showing

the Maya in the case of your family members also? Then the Lord can

excuse you because you are showing Maya everywhere. This means that

you are not treating the Lord equal to your family members. You are

offering the food to Him with your hand and eating. You are putting

your jewels on the statue of the Lord and taking them away by next

day. The statue is in your house. Why don't you keep the jewels on

the statue forever? The wealth is in your house only. Is it proper

to take out the wealth that is donated to the Lord? When you are

donating even to a human being, you are not taking back. You are not

considering that statue equal to even an ordinary human being. You

say that the statue is not inert object and is the living Lord in

your eyes. If it is not statue and is the living Lord, why are you

doing such tricks? While giving jewels to the statue, the statue is

the living Lord according to you. But when you take away the jewels

you are treating it as an inert statue. If the statue is alive, why

is it not eating your food? Why is it not talking with you?

You will not accept the human form of the Lord because if you offer

the food He will eat. If you give jewels to Him, He will wear and

will not return to you. On one side you say the statue is not inert.

But on the other hand your practical behavior proves that the statue

is inert. You are fooling the Lord. You are showing false love on

Him. You want to impress Him so that He feels that you have real

love on Him and then get all your desires fulfilled. You show a drop

of real love, which you are showing to your children. You are giving

a pot of cow milk to your children. At least give one spoon of the

cow milk to the Lord. If you can't give even that spoon of cow milk,

keep quite. The Lord is not begging you for the cow milk. If you

cannot please the Lord, keep silent. He will not be furious with

you. Don't show false love and fool Him to get the boons. If you

can't give even a drop of cow milk, keep quite. But don't give a pot

of donkey milk, which is false love, and make the Lord furious. It

is not wrong if you cannot please the Lord but it is the greatest

sin if you fool Him by false love and try to get the benefit from

Him. Without the practical sacrifice that proves the real love, all

your traditional activities and dramatic dress like silk cloth,

sacred ash on the forehead and garlands of beads are only the means

of cheating and fooling the Lord. You can fool a human being who is

ignorant or having little knowledge. But the Lord is omniscient.

Knowing this you are trying to fool Him!! Are you not the biggest

fool before Him? Therefore have the shield of Maya when you enter

the world but when you come to the Lord remove the shield of Maya.

Even if you treat the Lord as the statue in your prayer room, stop

all these traditional foolish activity and be real. Since the statue

cannot eat the food, don't offer the food. Since the statue is not

having life, don't put flowers, don't lit the oil lamp when the

light is present, don't burn the fume sticks and camphor, don't

break the coconut etc., You see the beauty of the Lord in the statue

or photo and fix your eyes. Develop attraction and love. Remember

His qualities.

If there is darkness, lit the lamp. To remove the darkness, only oil

lamp is not needed. The alternative electric light is there. Avoid

the oil lamp in order to avoid the pollution. If you want good

smell, burn the fume stick. Burning the camphor has no use and

moreover it causes pollution. To satisfy your vision you can

decorate the statue with flowers. What ever you do, you do for your

self-satisfaction, which is the fruit for all your actions. You can

offer the food to the statue, but it is for your satisfaction only

and don't expect any extra fruit from the Lord. You can break the

coconut before the Lord and offer the broken pieces of coconut to

the Lord. But you are eating the coconut. Don't ask the Lord for any

fruit for breaking the coconut. Therefore you can do all these

things before statues and photos with a divine feeling as if you are

offering to the Lord. Your feeling is definitely better than the

feeling of an atheist. But what I say is that by such feelings you

have attained peace, satisfaction and happiness in your mind. Please

do not ask anything from the Lord because your sacrifice is not a

real practical sacrifice. It is only the sacrifice of your words and

feelings. This is not wrong as far as you don't ask for any fruit

for such actions. Once you ask the fruit from the Lord for such

sacrifice of words and feelings, all those rituals become fooling

the Lord. I am not against the rituals but I am against you if you

say that you have practically sacrificed to the Lord through those

rituals and if you ask for some real fruit from the Lord. By all

these things you have obtained peace and happiness in your heart.

Very good! Be satisfied with that fruit. Don't boast that you have

sacrificed something to the Lord and therefore don't expect any

fruit from the Lord. If you say that you have sacrificed to the Lord

by these rituals, which are only sacrifice of words and feelings,

you are the biggest actor and all your rituals are the dramatic

actions. If you want to sacrifice really to the Lord, search for the

human form of the Lord, with the help of Veda and do any little

sacrifice, what ever you can. In such sacrifice if you aspire

anything in return, you will get the fruit, which is just equal to

your sacrifice. If you sacrifice one rupee, He will give you one

chocolate. If you sacrifice two rupees, He will give you two

chocolates. Let the business be justified. Don't expect ten

chocolates for one rupee. But if you are not aspiring any fruit for

your sacrifice, which is the real love similar to the real love

shown to your children, then the Lord will give you infinite real

fruit in a proper place at the appropriate time. Since you are not

aspiring for the fruit, you leave the right place and right time to

the decision of the Lord.

posted by: His servant

at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

www.universal-spirituality.org

~ om tat sat ~

Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta Ashram.

Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama Krishna'

(2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar the Great who said that the human stomach should not become a graveyard for animals.

(3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free chart reading today

May 31, 2006

|| Hare Rama Krishna ||

Dear Surya-ji,

Namaskar. I have all but removed myself from the

list temporarily, but I am compelled to reply to your letter which, in

my understanding contains (a) an incomplete idea of Hindu ideals and

methods (b) blatant representation of the understandings in Gita and

other spiritual texts.

Idol worship : When a child doen't want to study and doesn't go through

routine chores of spelling and grammar, the mother tries to make him do

it by first giving him candies or some toys in return, then cajoling and

finally reprimanding him -- but that is for his own good. Why ? because

it is good for him. At his stage of life, he may not understand the full

result of his actions, he may not understand education is important.

Similarly, idol worship strengthens the 'children' amongst worshippers.

If they wait to have full spiritual understanding, they will perhaps

never come to it in the first place. Secondly, worship makes us believe

in the power behind the idol/emblem. We know about Sri Rama. But we

cannot get him in flesh and blood. So we worship Rama's murti/picture,

read Ramayana and picturize the Ideals he realized in life.

When we offer food to an idol we do so to show that we love Him (behind

the idol) and we want to give Him our best. We partake of the food,

called Prasaada. It literally means that which the lord gives to us,

being prasanna. We eat anyway but the act of making the food prasaada

(consecration) shows that even in the act of eating, we make the

recognition of the supreme. There is a famous sloka in the Gita:

Brahmaarpanam Bramha havi, Bramhagnou Bramhanaahutam

Bramhaiva tena gantavvyam, Bramhakarma samaadhinaam ||

It means we offer that what is Bramhan, to the Bramhan, by the Bramhan,

into the fire which is Bramhan.

You said, we should worship a living body. Why only a living body ?

Living body will fall off aftersome time, so it is not eternal and so it

cannot be the representation of the Supreme ! Is it not ? Then why ?

Because we know that inside the living body is something precious - and

what is this precious ? It is the idea of the Supreme. Should we then do

away with physical worship altogether and worship ideas in mind ? Well

ideas also change with time too ! Idols are also the same. Idols

conceptualize the Supreme. Like each part of the body is necessary, each

part of religion and ritualism is necessary - in development.

I ask you to read Swami Vivekananda's two pieces:

1. His famous Chicago Lecture

2. His lecture on "The Chief Symbols" (Complete Works, Volume 4, under

"Addresses on Bhakti Yoga")

You can read the same in www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info

<http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info> . It contains the entire

collection of Swami-ji's works.

There are pros and cons to everything. Religion on one hand can breed

fanaticism and on the otherhand can exalt a person to extreme high on

the spiritual plane. The fire which can damage our house can also cook

our food. It doesn't make the fire bad.

Anyway, I believe you will have all your answers in Swami's lectures.

Because you have a certain understanding of Spirituality, please don't

decry other's understanding. Remember that you were at this stage once !

Best wishes,

Sourav

==========================================================

, "surya" <dattapr2000 wrote:

>

> "Bharat Hindu Astrology" hinduastrology@ wrote:

> > Namaskaar Sri Srivastavaji

> >

> > One never prays to an idol. Noone worships an idol. I haven't seen

> a single person worship an idol. All I have seen are people

> worshiping Bhagawan in all its rupas. This rupa could be of the

> material of stone, human, animal, plant, thought, imagination, or

> else.

> >

> > This principle is in every part of our living. A simple Namaskaar

> is recognizing the Lord as you. A tilak on your forehead means the

> same. It is this bhava that is part of our daily life. As Sri

> Ramanarayanan has aptly put it in another post, one can

> mechanically do the above or remember the bhava.

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > Bharat

>

> If Lord also remembers you (maintains good bhava in His mind)and do

> not do anything practically, will you be happy? When food or

> anything is shown to idol, it is not a real worship as we ourselves

> are eating it. Lord is not eating a trace of it. When the material

> of the rupa is stone, it is called as Idol worship.

>

> Q) You are advising homogeneity in action, words and mind in front

> of Lord?

>

> I advised homogeneity before the Lord in the spiritual effort. I

> never told that you should be homogeneous in this world. Lord

> Krishna told Dharma Raja to tell a lie in order to kill Dronacharya.

> Lord Krishna tells in that context, that one should cheat the

> cheaters in the world. Lord Krishna says "If you go into the world

> of Maya without Maya, you will be killed as a soldier who goes to

> the war without armor on the body". When you are associating with

> Maya for the sake of the world for a long time, the Maya enters your

> nature. You are showing the same Maya before the Lord.

>

> You are treating the Lord as an outsider and also as a cheater. He

> never cheated you. He gave you this human birth even though your

> file of Karma recommends the birth of animals. He gave the

> longevity, health and wealth and protected you several times in your

> life. Why should you cheat Him? You are not cheating your family

> members. Can't you equalize the Lord at least with your family

> members? If Maya affects you continuously, why are you not showing

> the Maya in the case of your family members also? Then the Lord can

> excuse you because you are showing Maya everywhere. This means that

> you are not treating the Lord equal to your family members. You are

> offering the food to Him with your hand and eating. You are putting

> your jewels on the statue of the Lord and taking them away by next

> day. The statue is in your house. Why don't you keep the jewels on

> the statue forever? The wealth is in your house only. Is it proper

> to take out the wealth that is donated to the Lord? When you are

> donating even to a human being, you are not taking back. You are not

> considering that statue equal to even an ordinary human being. You

> say that the statue is not inert object and is the living Lord in

> your eyes. If it is not statue and is the living Lord, why are you

> doing such tricks? While giving jewels to the statue, the statue is

> the living Lord according to you. But when you take away the jewels

> you are treating it as an inert statue. If the statue is alive, why

> is it not eating your food? Why is it not talking with you?

>

> You will not accept the human form of the Lord because if you offer

> the food He will eat. If you give jewels to Him, He will wear and

> will not return to you. On one side you say the statue is not inert.

> But on the other hand your practical behavior proves that the statue

> is inert. You are fooling the Lord. You are showing false love on

> Him. You want to impress Him so that He feels that you have real

> love on Him and then get all your desires fulfilled. You show a drop

> of real love, which you are showing to your children. You are giving

> a pot of cow milk to your children. At least give one spoon of the

> cow milk to the Lord. If you can't give even that spoon of cow milk,

> keep quite. The Lord is not begging you for the cow milk. If you

> cannot please the Lord, keep silent. He will not be furious with

> you. Don't show false love and fool Him to get the boons. If you

> can't give even a drop of cow milk, keep quite. But don't give a pot

> of donkey milk, which is false love, and make the Lord furious. It

> is not wrong if you cannot please the Lord but it is the greatest

> sin if you fool Him by false love and try to get the benefit from

> Him. Without the practical sacrifice that proves the real love, all

> your traditional activities and dramatic dress like silk cloth,

> sacred ash on the forehead and garlands of beads are only the means

> of cheating and fooling the Lord. You can fool a human being who is

> ignorant or having little knowledge. But the Lord is omniscient.

> Knowing this you are trying to fool Him!! Are you not the biggest

> fool before Him? Therefore have the shield of Maya when you enter

> the world but when you come to the Lord remove the shield of Maya.

> Even if you treat the Lord as the statue in your prayer room, stop

> all these traditional foolish activity and be real. Since the statue

> cannot eat the food, don't offer the food. Since the statue is not

> having life, don't put flowers, don't lit the oil lamp when the

> light is present, don't burn the fume sticks and camphor, don't

> break the coconut etc., You see the beauty of the Lord in the statue

> or photo and fix your eyes. Develop attraction and love. Remember

> His qualities.

>

> If there is darkness, lit the lamp. To remove the darkness, only oil

> lamp is not needed. The alternative electric light is there. Avoid

> the oil lamp in order to avoid the pollution. If you want good

> smell, burn the fume stick. Burning the camphor has no use and

> moreover it causes pollution. To satisfy your vision you can

> decorate the statue with flowers. What ever you do, you do for your

> self-satisfaction, which is the fruit for all your actions. You can

> offer the food to the statue, but it is for your satisfaction only

> and don't expect any extra fruit from the Lord. You can break the

> coconut before the Lord and offer the broken pieces of coconut to

> the Lord. But you are eating the coconut. Don't ask the Lord for any

> fruit for breaking the coconut. Therefore you can do all these

> things before statues and photos with a divine feeling as if you are

> offering to the Lord. Your feeling is definitely better than the

> feeling of an atheist. But what I say is that by such feelings you

> have attained peace, satisfaction and happiness in your mind. Please

> do not ask anything from the Lord because your sacrifice is not a

> real practical sacrifice. It is only the sacrifice of your words and

> feelings. This is not wrong as far as you don't ask for any fruit

> for such actions. Once you ask the fruit from the Lord for such

> sacrifice of words and feelings, all those rituals become fooling

> the Lord. I am not against the rituals but I am against you if you

> say that you have practically sacrificed to the Lord through those

> rituals and if you ask for some real fruit from the Lord. By all

> these things you have obtained peace and happiness in your heart.

> Very good! Be satisfied with that fruit. Don't boast that you have

> sacrificed something to the Lord and therefore don't expect any

> fruit from the Lord. If you say that you have sacrificed to the Lord

> by these rituals, which are only sacrifice of words and feelings,

> you are the biggest actor and all your rituals are the dramatic

> actions. If you want to sacrifice really to the Lord, search for the

> human form of the Lord, with the help of Veda and do any little

> sacrifice, what ever you can. In such sacrifice if you aspire

> anything in return, you will get the fruit, which is just equal to

> your sacrifice. If you sacrifice one rupee, He will give you one

> chocolate. If you sacrifice two rupees, He will give you two

> chocolates. Let the business be justified. Don't expect ten

> chocolates for one rupee. But if you are not aspiring any fruit for

> your sacrifice, which is the real love similar to the real love

> shown to your children, then the Lord will give you infinite real

> fruit in a proper place at the appropriate time. Since you are not

> aspiring for the fruit, you leave the right place and right time to

> the decision of the Lord.

>

> posted by: His servant

> at the lotus feet of shri datta swami

> www.universal-spirituality.org

>

June 1, 2006

Namaste Sri Visti

I apologize for the inconvenience. Shall post on jyotish only or will

provide a similar angle in future.

Thanks for reminding.

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

On 5/31/06, Visti Larsen <visti (AT) srigaruda (DOT) com> wrote:

>

> ||Hare Rama Krsna||

> Dear Members, Namaskar

> Please stick to jyotish. If you wish to discuss idol worship or similar

> philosophies, then there are many other lists for this. Please stick to

> Jyotish or atleast give a jyotish angle to your discussion otherwise i

> will

> be forced to moderate your posts.

> Best wishes,

> ***

> List Moderator - Visti Larsen

> For services and articles visit:

> http://srigaruda.com

> ***

>

> []

> On

> Behalf Of surya

> 31 May 2006 16:12

>

> Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Idol Worship

>

> "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology wrote: