Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Hi all, Almost all movies of D Mehta's movies are washout in India. D Mehta's movies have Anti-Hindu stance and 'Water' is no exception. I got to see one of her movie 'Fire' which was virulantly Anti-Hindu, Two co-sisters named Radha and Sita end up having lesbian relationship. People in India asked to change the names of characters as Radha and Sita revered by millions, but she wouldn't budge and 'Fire' movie has so much anti Guru speak. ammasiswari! 'Water' movie is not contemporary story of India, It's a movie set in mid 1930's. Such -- In Ammachi, Prajna - Brianna <prajnaji> wrote: > > Oh, yes it is! We saw it a few months ago... it was incredible. > > -Prajna > > ammasiswari <ammasiswari> wrote: > Speaking of widows in Hindu culture, Deepa Mehta's recently released film, "Water," is > powerful and, in my opinion, very much worth seeing: > > http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/10005763-water/ > > Iswari > > [subject line changed and excess re-hashed message text deleted by moderator] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 http://water.mahiram.com/ For Deepa's side of the story. Click on "Production" for the story of how the RSS (same fundamentalist group that has targeted Amma) sabotaged the filming. Deepa made the film because she saw real widow "ashrams" operating in present-day India. Regarding "Fire," what's so offensive about lesbians in India? How does that put India in a bad light? IMO, what puts India in a bad light is these vicious attacks on free speech, and acting like two women falling in love is the most horrible thing ever. As for "Water," Deepa Mehta is a Hindu herself, and the film is based on things that really happened, and still may happen. Why should we not examine this? Should we not make films about the holocaust because it makes Germans look bad? Or about slavery because it makes white people look bad? It's educational, it's not an attack on hinduism. Gandhiji adamantly critcized the practices of child marriage and forcing widows to live that kind of life. To me it is incredible that anyone would defend it. I don't defend slavery, though I am a white person. I don't try to hide it because I think it might reflect poorly on my race, either. I would use careful discernment when embracing the claims of the RSS. Hinduism is a beautiful religion and culture, with lots to offer to the rest of the world, but let's be realistic. There was a time when it was considered the Christian way to burn women and children at the stake as witches. love, Prajna anonymous_guy579 <anonymous_guy579 > wrote: Hi all, Almost all movies of D Mehta's movies are washout in India. D Mehta's movies have Anti-Hindu stance and 'Water' is no exception. I got to see one of her movie 'Fire' which was virulantly Anti-Hindu, Two co-sisters named Radha and Sita end up having lesbian relationship. People in India asked to change the names of characters as Radha and Sita revered by millions, but she wouldn't budge and 'Fire' movie has so much anti Guru speak. ammasiswari! 'Water' movie is not contemporary story of India, It's a movie set in mid 1930's. Such -- In Ammachi, Prajna - Brianna <prajnaji> wrote: > > Oh, yes it is! We saw it a few months ago... it was incredible. > > -Prajna > > ammasiswari <ammasiswari> wrote: > Speaking of widows in Hindu culture, Deepa Mehta's recently released film, "Water," is > powerful and, in my opinion, very much worth seeing: > > http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/10005763-water/ > > Iswari > > [subject line changed and excess re-hashed message text deleted by moderator] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Dear Anonymous Guy, It's been many years since I saw "Fire," so I won't comment on that. However, I did not experience "Water" as anti-Hindu. Yes, there were elements of social criticism, but there was also a deep vein of spirituality that ran throughout the film. I very much respected and was moved by the spiritual lives of some of the women in ashram, even as I felt the societal treatment of the widows was surely deserving of criticism. I'd suggest actually seeing the film before commenting further. Sincerely, Iswari Ammachi, "anonymous_guy579" <anonymous_guy579> wrote: > > Hi all, > > Almost all movies of D Mehta's movies are washout in India. D Mehta's > movies have Anti-Hindu stance and 'Water' is no exception. I got to > see one of her movie 'Fire' which was virulantly Anti-Hindu, Two > co-sisters named Radha and Sita end up having lesbian relationship. > People in India asked to change the names of characters as Radha and > Sita revered by millions, but she wouldn't budge and 'Fire' movie has > so much anti Guru speak. > > ammasiswari! 'Water' movie is not contemporary story of India, It's a > movie set in mid 1930's. Such > > > -- In Ammachi, Prajna - Brianna <prajnaji@> wrote: > > > > Oh, yes it is! We saw it a few months ago... it was incredible. > > > > -Prajna > > > > ammasiswari <ammasiswari@> wrote: > > Speaking of widows in Hindu culture, Deepa Mehta's recently > released film, "Water," is > > powerful and, in my opinion, very much worth seeing: > > > > http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/10005763-water/ > > > > Iswari > > > > > [subject line changed and excess re-hashed message text deleted by moderator] > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Dear Visvanathan, I have to disagree with you. At least, in the film "Water," I did not feel that Ms. Mehta was attempting to portray fundamentalist extremism as the norm (although you do have to understand that this film was set in the 1930s, so the treatment of widows is naturally going to be more extreme then than it is today...even as it was Ms. Mehta's present-day encounter with a Hindu widow that inspired it). I think it's stretching a bit far to say that this film will convince Westerners that Hindu religion/culture is backward and worthless. While I don't think filmmakers should grossly stereotype or misrepresent, I don't think it's realistic or fair to expect that they will only portray (members of) their culture/religion in a positive light. Many individuals struggle with aspects of their culture/religion and they have the right to explore this in art just like anyone (even though, truthfully, a part of me cringes when I see my own culture/religion-of-origin portrayed negatively on film). In fact, rather than expecting filmmakers to conform to someone else's cultural/religious agenda, it's my hope that we can all learn to think critically and see propaganda for what it is....whether it's coming from an Indian nationalist or an Indian anti-nationalist...and to recognize that every culture/religion has its negative aspects and that doesn't mean that these aspects are necessarily representative of the culture/religion as a whole. Also, inter- religious/cultural/political xenophobia and stereotypes long pre-dated modern media. Like you say, it's a problem when we just absorb things unconditionally, with no context or inkling to question. I say that's the problem, much more than the works of any filmmaker. I'd be curious to hear your impressions of the film if you do see it sometime. I'd be surprised if you still had such a negative reaction. Yes, there were some black-and-white characters, but one of my favorite widows was one of the most complex and faithful. Sincerely, Iswari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Iswari-Ma, you said what I was trying to say much more eloquently and articulately. Thank you for your refreshing insight. love, Prajna ammasiswari <ammasiswari > wrote: Dear Visvanathan, I have to disagree with you. At least, in the film "Water," I did not feel that Ms. Mehta was attempting to portray fundamentalist extremism as the norm (although you do have to understand that this film was set in the 1930s, so the treatment of widows is naturally going to be more extreme then than it is today...even as it was Ms. Mehta's present-day encounter with a Hindu widow that inspired it). I think it's stretching a bit far to say that this film will convince Westerners that Hindu religion/culture is backward and worthless. While I don't think filmmakers should grossly stereotype or misrepresent, I don't think it's realistic or fair to expect that they will only portray (members of) their culture/religion in a positive light. Many individuals struggle with aspects of their culture/religion and they have the right to explore this in art just like anyone (even though, truthfully, a part of me cringes when I see my own culture/religion-of-origin portrayed negatively on film). In fact, rather than expecting filmmakers to conform to someone else's cultural/religious agenda, it's my hope that we can all learn to think critically and see propaganda for what it is....whether it's coming from an Indian nationalist or an Indian anti-nationalist...and to recognize that every culture/religion has its negative aspects and that doesn't mean that these aspects are necessarily representative of the culture/religion as a whole. Also, inter- religious/cultural/political xenophobia and stereotypes long pre-dated modern media. Like you say, it's a problem when we just absorb things unconditionally, with no context or inkling to question. I say that's the problem, much more than the works of any filmmaker. I'd be curious to hear your impressions of the film if you do see it sometime. I'd be surprised if you still had such a negative reaction. Yes, there were some black-and-white characters, but one of my favorite widows was one of the most complex and faithful. Sincerely, Iswari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Ammachi, Prajna - Brianna <prajnaji> wrote: > > Dear brother, perhaps we can agree to disagree. Did you or your wife actually see "Water?" Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! Namaskarams!! i just walked in the door from work...and what was on the TV, with my wife watching enthusiastically???? Hollywood, Bollywood.......another canadian film by DEEPA Mehta.... so i guess that this morning when she told me she would NEVER watch a film by Ms. Mehta...i guess she was exaggerating...and that Amma heard her loud exclamations...and said...we'll just see about that!!! and put Hollywood Bollywood on....just for Easwari to watch... no we haven't seen Water, but i've heard alot about it from a colleague at my work, who raved about it...we have seen Salaam Bombay, though, and that was a pretty depressing film... as for me, i had NO opinions about ms Mehta's work myself, as i don't know much about it...i was expressing Easwari's view...because she has been very strong and loud about how one sided her movies are. having seen Salaam Bombay, i could see what she was referring to...but i had forgotten just how entertaining Hollywood Bollywood is...just light Bollywood fantasy type movie but very funny... so...... i guess Amma settled that one pretty well huh?! in Her Divine Love, and in Her service, as ever, visvanathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Dear Visvanathan, This made me smile....only because Amma has had the last laugh on me too many times! Blessings, Iswari Ammachi, "kasi_visvanath" <kasi_visvanath> wrote: > > Ammachi, Prajna - Brianna <prajnaji@> wrote: > > > > Dear brother, perhaps we can agree to disagree. Did you or your wife > actually see "Water?" > > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah! > > Namaskarams!! > > i just walked in the door from work...and what was on the TV, with my > wife watching enthusiastically???? > > Hollywood, Bollywood.......another canadian film by DEEPA Mehta.... > > so i guess that this morning when she told me she would NEVER watch a > film by Ms. Mehta...i guess she was exaggerating...and that Amma heard > her loud exclamations...and said...we'll just see about that!!! > > and put Hollywood Bollywood on....just for Easwari to watch... > > no we haven't seen Water, but i've heard alot about it from a > colleague at my work, who raved about it...we have seen Salaam Bombay, > though, and that was a pretty depressing film... > > as for me, i had NO opinions about ms Mehta's work myself, as i don't > know much about it...i was expressing Easwari's view...because she has > been very strong and loud about how one sided her movies are. > > having seen Salaam Bombay, i could see what she was referring to...but > i had forgotten just how entertaining Hollywood Bollywood is...just > light Bollywood fantasy type movie but very funny... > > so...... > > i guess Amma settled that one pretty well huh?! > > in Her Divine Love, > and in Her service, > as ever, > > visvanathan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Ammachi, "ammasiswari" <ammasiswari> wrote: > > Dear Visvanathan, > > I have to disagree with you. At least, in the film "Water," I did not feel that Ms. Mehta was > attempting to portray fundamentalist extremism as the norm.... ....I think it's stretching a bit far to say that > this film will convince Westerners that Hindu religion/culture is backward and worthless. > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!! Namaskarams!! thank you dear sister for your very well written and thought out response to my "opinion" letter...i think that you are right...it is necessary for the audience to be very discerning as to the worth of these movies, whether they are portraying a generally true view of how things are or not...the trouble is the many people who go to movies mayh not be as knowledgeable about Indian culture/religion as Amma's devotees might tend to be...and these westerners would not have anything to compare Ms. Mehta's version of reality with...thus they will NOT be able to view the movie with a critical perspective, as they do not KNOW the issues as they might be seen by someone who has some exposure to Indian culture/religion and its issues...thus they are very vulnerable to the moviemaker's views on things... just like i said earlier...easterners views of westerners are often derived ENTIRELY from the movies of us that they see...the Islamic fundamentalist/terrorists may indeed be fueled in their hatred of western culture by just these movies portraying excesses in lust and greed and drunkenness, and so on...as portrayed by the movies, and on television...what else do they know about us westerners? the same goes for us (the general western populace) when presented by movies about India or the far east...if we are NOT critical viewers, we will just assume that the movies are portraying things more or less the way they are...except of course for such fantasy movies as are generally produced in Bollywood...with all the singing and dancing...so of course Easwari enjoyed Hollywood Bollywood....cause it's just ball of fluff...nothing serious there...just entertaining. i still basically stand by my earlier views, as supported by Manoj in his post...i have seen so much stuff produced by desis as he calls them which is totally anti hindu and anti indian culture....like they're trying to join the westerners in condemning Indian culture and religions....they have BOUGHT the British imperialist view, which is STILL expressed all the time by the Marxist leftist university types and their friends in the Marxist Leninist journalims departments... Even the government of India tends to be prejudiced AGAINST Hindu values in trying to bend over backwards to prove that it is "secular" and "non-partisan"...Muslims and Christians receive better treatment from the Indian governments than Hindus do, because even THEY have bought the propaganda from the imperialists and marxists that native Indian culture and religions are not really very advanced or have any value in themselves. i was looking through the channels on our cable tv, and i noticed that on Bravo channel (channel 40 here in Nelson), Deepa Mehta's "Earth" is showing at 10pm PST...it's one that Manoj said that he liked a lot...so if anyone is interested...it's on tonight...that Amma/...She must be laughing at us now...a long discussion about these Movies...and suddenly there's TWO of her movies on in ONE night...very funny....i think i'll record it as it goes from 10pm-12midnight...we'll juist have to see how it goes... In Amma's Divine Love and In Her Service, as ever, your own self, visvanathan Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Viswanathanji, I have enjoyed this leela, too. It's very interesting to me because right now I am reading Gandhi's Autobiography, which offers lots of beautiful insight into Hinduism and Indian culture. He was a reformer in the best possible way, IMO. He shed the aspects of the religion/culture which had become distorted and brought forth the shining essence, which is exactly what our Amma is doing today. Thank God these luminaries come to us from time to time... love, Prajna kasi_visvanath <kasi_visvanath > wrote: Ammachi, "ammasiswari" <ammasiswari> wrote: > > Dear Visvanathan, > > I have to disagree with you. At least, in the film "Water," I did not feel that Ms. Mehta was > attempting to portray fundamentalist extremism as the norm.... ....I think it's stretching a bit far to say that > this film will convince Westerners that Hindu religion/culture is backward and worthless. > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!! Namaskarams!! thank you dear sister for your very well written and thought out response to my "opinion" letter...i think that you are right...it is necessary for the audience to be very discerning as to the worth of these movies, whether they are portraying a generally true view of how things are or not...the trouble is the many people who go to movies mayh not be as knowledgeable about Indian culture/religion as Amma's devotees might tend to be...and these westerners would not have anything to compare Ms. Mehta's version of reality with...thus they will NOT be able to view the movie with a critical perspective, as they do not KNOW the issues as they might be seen by someone who has some exposure to Indian culture/religion and its issues...thus they are very vulnerable to the moviemaker's views on things... just like i said earlier...easterners views of westerners are often derived ENTIRELY from the movies of us that they see...the Islamic fundamentalist/terrorists may indeed be fueled in their hatred of western culture by just these movies portraying excesses in lust and greed and drunkenness, and so on...as portrayed by the movies, and on television...what else do they know about us westerners? the same goes for us (the general western populace) when presented by movies about India or the far east...if we are NOT critical viewers, we will just assume that the movies are portraying things more or less the way they are...except of course for such fantasy movies as are generally produced in Bollywood...with all the singing and dancing...so of course Easwari enjoyed Hollywood Bollywood....cause it's just ball of fluff...nothing serious there...just entertaining. i still basically stand by my earlier views, as supported by Manoj in his post...i have seen so much stuff produced by desis as he calls them which is totally anti hindu and anti indian culture....like they're trying to join the westerners in condemning Indian culture and religions....they have BOUGHT the British imperialist view, which is STILL expressed all the time by the Marxist leftist university types and their friends in the Marxist Leninist journalims departments... Even the government of India tends to be prejudiced AGAINST Hindu values in trying to bend over backwards to prove that it is "secular" and "non-partisan"...Muslims and Christians receive better treatment from the Indian governments than Hindus do, because even THEY have bought the propaganda from the imperialists and marxists that native Indian culture and religions are not really very advanced or have any value in themselves. i was looking through the channels on our cable tv, and i noticed that on Bravo channel (channel 40 here in Nelson), Deepa Mehta's "Earth" is showing at 10pm PST...it's one that Manoj said that he liked a lot...so if anyone is interested...it's on tonight...that Amma/...She must be laughing at us now...a long discussion about these Movies...and suddenly there's TWO of her movies on in ONE night...very funny....i think i'll record it as it goes from 10pm-12midnight...we'll juist have to see how it goes... In Amma's Divine Love and In Her Service, as ever, your own self, visvanathan Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Om Namah Shivaya! Brothers and Sisters! Everyone could be correct from the angle that person is analyzing. It is possible westerners make the impression of Indians and Hinduism from various authors who have not fully learnt all possibilities in Hinduism and so show the bad side of India. At the sametime we see westerners impressed by Ammachi or Sai Baba. What must we try to cultivate in this situation? As Ammachi would say we must use our mind to get peace and prosperity for ourselves and improving ourselves instead of judging other persons which is only going to be a waste of time and effort. Some of us are going to Amma despite a stiff opposition at home even from parents. What do we do? We gain nothing by criticizing our parents or relatives. It is OK if we see a movie for just relaxation. Amma has even told not to see television as it can corrupt our minds. I would strongly recommend to stop commenting about Deepa Mehta and instead concentrate on ourselves. This is not an attack on freedom of expression but an exercise for regulating ourselves. Mahadevan venkitaraman Ammachi, Prajna - Brianna <prajnaji> wrote: > > Viswanathanji, I have enjoyed this leela, too. It's very interesting to me because right now I am reading Gandhi's Autobiography, which offers lots of beautiful insight into Hinduism and Indian culture. He was a reformer in the best possible way, IMO. He shed the aspects of the religion/culture which had become distorted and brought forth the shining essence, which is exactly what our Amma is doing today. Thank God these luminaries come to us from time to time... > > love, > > Prajna > > kasi_visvanath <kasi_visvanath> wrote: > Ammachi, "ammasiswari" <ammasiswari@> wrote: > > > > Dear Visvanathan, > > > > I have to disagree with you. At least, in the film "Water," I did > not feel that Ms. Mehta was > > attempting to portray fundamentalist extremism as the norm.... > > ...I think it's stretching a bit far to say that > > this film will convince Westerners that Hindu religion/culture is > backward and worthless. > > > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!! > > Namaskarams!! > > thank you dear sister for your very well written and thought out > response to my "opinion" letter...i think that you are right...it is > necessary for the audience to be very discerning as to the worth of > these movies, whether they are portraying a generally true view of how > things are or not...the trouble is the many people who go to movies > mayh not be as knowledgeable about Indian culture/religion as Amma's > devotees might tend to be...and these westerners would not have > anything to compare Ms. Mehta's version of reality with...thus they > will NOT be able to view the movie with a critical perspective, as > they do not KNOW the issues as they might be seen by someone who has > some exposure to Indian culture/religion and its issues...thus they > are very vulnerable to the moviemaker's views on things... > > just like i said earlier...easterners views of westerners are often > derived ENTIRELY from the movies of us that they see...the Islamic > fundamentalist/terrorists may indeed be fueled in their hatred of > western culture by just these movies portraying excesses in lust and > greed and drunkenness, and so on...as portrayed by the movies, and on > television...what else do they know about us westerners? > > the same goes for us (the general western populace) when presented by > movies about India or the far east...if we are NOT critical viewers, > we will just assume that the movies are portraying things more or less > the way they are...except of course for such fantasy movies as are > generally produced in Bollywood...with all the singing and > dancing...so of course Easwari enjoyed Hollywood Bollywood....cause > it's just ball of fluff...nothing serious there...just entertaining. > > i still basically stand by my earlier views, as supported by Manoj in > his post...i have seen so much stuff produced by desis as he calls > them which is totally anti hindu and anti indian culture....like > they're trying to join the westerners in condemning Indian culture and > religions....they have BOUGHT the British imperialist view, which is > STILL expressed all the time by the Marxist leftist university types > and their friends in the Marxist Leninist journalims departments... > > Even the government of India tends to be prejudiced AGAINST Hindu > values in trying to bend over backwards to prove that it is "secular" > and "non-partisan"...Muslims and Christians receive better treatment > from the Indian governments than Hindus do, because even THEY have > bought the propaganda from the imperialists and marxists that native > Indian culture and religions are not really very advanced or have any > value in themselves. > > i was looking through the channels on our cable tv, and i noticed that > on Bravo channel (channel 40 here in Nelson), Deepa Mehta's > "Earth" is showing at 10pm PST...it's one that Manoj said that he > liked a lot...so if anyone is interested...it's on tonight...that > Amma/...She must be laughing at us now...a long discussion about these > Movies...and suddenly there's TWO of her movies on in ONE > night...very funny....i think i'll record it as it goes from > 10pm-12midnight...we'll juist have to see how it goes... > > In Amma's Divine Love > and In Her Service, > as ever, > your own self, > > visvanathan > > Om Amrtesvaryai Namah!! > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Ammachi, Dhanush Kumar <anonymous_guy579> wrote: >Then in 'Earth' movie, there are some filthy farting jokes > attributed to Hindu gurus. > Aum Namah Shiavaya > AG Did not catch this; i thot it was a movie about the partition of India and the resulting tragedy. anyway I saw the movie in 1999, and was not all that spiritually interested to take notice of a few remarks about gurus et al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2006 Report Share Posted June 7, 2006 People who endeavor to bring love and compassion into the world begin to recognize issues deserving attention and correction through the works of people like Deepa Mehta. In "Water," one of the widows asks what happens when faith contradicts conscience. She shows how Gandhi began to bring harmony between faith and conscience. That's beautiful, and to everyone's advantage. There are people who exploit other people in every religion. What's important is not to hold on to the distortions of those exploitations, but to allow that harmony between faith and conscience to be restored. That's not anti-Hindu, is it? Ammachi, "anonymous_guy579" <anonymous_guy579 wrote: > > Hi all, > > Almost all movies of D Mehta's movies are washout in India. D Mehta's > movies have Anti-Hindu stance and 'Water' is no exception. I got to > see one of her movie 'Fire' which was virulantly Anti-Hindu, Two > co-sisters named Radha and Sita end up having lesbian relationship. > People in India asked to change the names of characters as Radha and > Sita revered by millions, but she wouldn't budge and 'Fire' movie has > so much anti Guru speak. > > ammasiswari! 'Water' movie is not contemporary story of India, It's a > movie set in mid 1930's. Such > > > -- In Ammachi, Prajna - Brianna <prajnaji@> wrote: > > > > Oh, yes it is! We saw it a few months ago... it was incredible. > > > > -Prajna > > > > ammasiswari <ammasiswari@> wrote: > > Speaking of widows in Hindu culture, Deepa Mehta's recently > released film, "Water," is > > powerful and, in my opinion, very much worth seeing: > > > > http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/10005763-water/ > > > > Iswari > > > > > [subject line changed and excess re-hashed message text deleted by moderator] > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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