Guest guest Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 || Om Tat Sat Om || || Hare Rama Krishna || Dear Visti-ji, Rafal, and Swati, Namaskar. I am giving here my understanding of AK and Ishtadevata. First of all, I invoke the Upanishadik allegory of two birds sitting on the samsara-vriksha - namely the Jivatman and Paramatman. Jivatman is atman in sheath of samaskaras called the pancakoshas. This sheath constitutes all the colorings of the soul. The jivatman will not 'rest' (12-th house, jivanamuktaamsa) till the sheath is gone. The paramaatman is viewed through the sheath and hence takes up 'form' of Ishta. Ishta is that form of God which is (A) most beneficial (B) most desirable. The closer we come to God, the visibility/awareness of paramaatman increases and the fallibility and futility of the sheath becomes more and more apparent until when the atman wants to abandon it completely. Now, a graha can represent beings of different levels - various forms of jadaatman, various forms of jivaatman, various forms of paramaatman (from point of view of various jivaatman's, otherwise Paramaatman is above form which causes limitation). For example, Shani can 'indicate' a dog, a slave/worker, Shani deva himself, or Narayana. From the context we will select this, and not confuse it with other forms. Hence when Venus is indicating aatman (meaning of aatmakaraka), Venus represents the jivatman which is shrowded in the sheath of Venusian nature. Venusian nature indicates love of luxuries and inclination to lust (amongst other things) and hence the indulgences of the same will cause further binding of jivatman or reinforcing the sheath over it, so to speak. Hence Venus as atmakaraka people are advised against possibility of lust. But when we are talking of Venus as indicator of Mother Mahalakshmi we are not mixing in the concept of sheath but view it as a pure form of Paramaatman, devoid of ego. Unless we view it as paramaatman we cannot realize the concept of sarvavyapakesa or all-pervading nature of paramaatman, and hence we cannot desire to merge in it, and hence we will not merge in it as we won't want to let go our sheath. We worship in a form or emblem or a name or something tangible. That is called Murti or "one that is murta (tangible)". Ishtamurti is the "one that is tangible and most desirable" becuase the imposed/assumed characteristics of the Ishtamurti is the best antidote to the developed samaskaras. Now just like the kendras of AK indicate the constant agitation/desire of the jivatman (desires arising from the samaskaraks buried in the sheath), the 12-th house indicates the 'resting place or bed' of the atman where it can find the final peace. Hence the name jivanmuktaamsa. Hence AK's hidden final desire is in the 12-th house and when we try to identify the form of Ishtamurti, we should keep our focus on this 12-th house. If a graha/grahas sit in this house, that is the Ishtamurti. If there are no grahas, Ishtamurti is indicated by the graha owning the house as he is incharge of everything happening in that house or everything that could happen in that house, eventually. It is quite difficult to identify one particular form of Ishta devata and recommend it to people. Because each jivatman is unique (coming out of unique experiences), Siva, for example, means different to different people. Hence when we recommend any form, we should note that we are recommending only 10% and the rest of 90% of the conception is of the making of the individual himself. This total conception also changes with time and progress of sadhana as awareness increases. The totality of 12-th house indicates the ishta, the primary form is indicated by the predominant graha only. Based on this, in the chart we were discussing, Venus indicates atmakaraka. Venus also is the predominant influence on the 12-th house. But these two indications are completely different, contextually speaking. When it is describing the AK, it indicates the primary nature of the sheath or samaskaras etc. When it indicates Ishtamurti (Mahalakshmi) it is Paramaatmaan with form -- the native will cherish this form and the more he/she worships this form, the higher awareness of the sheath develops and simultaneously, stronger the desire for repose becomes. The various associations on the 12-th lord, does temper the form but the primary form remains Lakshmi (there are various forms of Lakshmi). Even the rasi aspects of Rahu and Mangal on the 12-th house also provides their own influence. As I said, it is difficult for me to blend in effects of three-four grahas on the 12-th house and give a final form (which will still be 10% of the conception of Ishta, atmost). But I believe such a form is there as God has created everything and the future of everything as well. Best wishes, Sourav ========================================================== , "Rafal Gendarz" <starsuponme wrote: > > vyam vyasadevaya namah > > Dear Guruji & Sourav ji, > > Pranaam > > Nice mail from Guruji about weaknessess which I must admit unfortunately.. > > I would like also to add that AK also make the bad judgment of things related to Karaka. The person with Jupiter - AK always has doubts if he has enough knowledge or maybe he is lacking, the suffering is related to knowledge (can be known as lesson if you are uplifting the conciousness and has goal in it). It is said that person with subha-AK doesnt suffer so much but the suffering is still there...there is disorted vision of one's capacity to get & give knowledge. > > regards > Rafal Gendarz > > - > Visti Larsen > > Saturday, May 27, 2006 1:11 PM > RE: [Om Krishna Guru] Mahatma Gandhi's Ishta Devata > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > Ahamkara is the right word to use in this context. Ahamkara makes us confident in ourselves to the extent of ignorring others opinion. What we are confident of is seen from the planets in kendra to the AK in the rasi chart, including the AK-planet itself. > > For example, I have Jupiter in kendra to atmakaraka in the rasi chart, so i'm very confident that i know jyotish and that i can teach. This is a weakness... a failing. This is why you will invariably see people with Jupiter as atmakaraka become teachers, or interested in teaching... they also have trouble following all the teachers instructions, and for this certain mahavidya worship can be done. > > > > But, the act of teaching and the self are seperate, yes? Yet still the ahamkara is there. Similarly the devata and the self are separate, yet still the ahamkara is there. > > Best wishes, > > *** > > Visti Larsen > > For services and articles visit: > > http://srigaruda.com > > *** > > > ------\ ------ > > [] On Behalf Of Sourav > 27 May 2006 11:45 > > Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Mahatma Gandhi's Ishta Devata > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > Dear Visti-ji, > > Namaskar. As much as I am thinking on this topic, I understand that Atmakaraka represents the ahamkara associated with the individual where as the Devata indicated by the AK-graha is outside the Ahamkara stage. Hence worshipping that devata doesn't really constitute worshipping self. Afterall, whenever we worship we are worshipping the atman within us and not the sheath of ahamkara (be that mine or someone elses). > > Would you kindly give your inputs ? > > Best wishes, > > Sourav > > ========================================================================\ ============= > , "Visti Larsen" visti@ wrote: > > > > ||Hare Rama Krsna|| > > > > Dear Sourav, Namaskar > > > > You cannot worship yourself, hence when the Atmakaraka and Ishta Devata > > becomes the same planet, i was taught to choose the planets joining or > > having rasi dristi on the atmakaraka in navamsa. > > > > Moon is in Virgo navamsa. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > *** > > > > Visti Larsen > > > > For services and articles visit: > > > > <http://srigaruda.com> http://srigaruda.com > > > > *** > > > > _____ > > > > [] On > > Behalf Of Sourav > > 26 May 2006 18:41 > > > > Re: [Om Krishna Guru] Mahatma Gandhi's Ishta Devata > > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > Dear Swati, > > > > Namaskar. Atleast one part is clear, it is because AK > > himself owns the 12-th. I am not sure why he chose Tripurasundari form in > > particular as there is no direct influence of Budha except that Budha > > disposits Shukra and Chandra both. Chandra will represent Mother form and > > being in Vrisabha-Vrischika axis will also show your inclination towards > > worship of Mother. > > > > There seems to be several variations of the rule of choosing the Ishta > > devata. Here AK predominates being the lord. Rahu is also a strong candidate > > as it is 5th from AK and can lead to bhakti. Being with BK Mangal can > > indicate Durga/Chandi rupa. Let us wait for Visti-ji to give us his > > guidance. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Sourav > > > > ============================================================== > > > > > > , "swazz_oyzter" healingspaces@ > > wrote: > > > > > > HAre Rama Krishma ]] > > > Pranam Saurav.This is wt Vistiji said Saurav > > > > > > check in mail 18731 > > > > > > Coming to devatas: Your Ishta Devata is Gouri. Her Roopa is > > > specifically a form of Mahakali, i.e. Tripurasundari. A nice mantra > > > for her is: Om Parasundaryai Namah|| > > > > > > Your Dharma devata and Palana Devata is Narayana or Koorma Avatara... > > > Did you know that Lakshmi was born during the era of the Koorma > > > Avatara? An interesting story to read. Its in the Srimad Bhagavatam. > > > Make it a long term effort to read and understand the meaning of this > > > avatara. > > > > > > check in mail 18744 > > > > > > swati :For my ishta devta.Sir i am stil confused...as How Gouri.We are > > > supposed to see navamsa chart as i heard ur lectures.I have cancer > > > lagna as navamsa lagna in my SW.My AK venus in 12th so gemini > > > karakamsa.12th from there , no planet, lord is same, so i look for > > > other dhristi. The dhriti needs to go to the 12th house of karakamsa > > > or the karakamsa itself? > > > > > > [Visti] Read my mail again, i was look at planets aspecting the AK > > > itself when the AK became the Istha. > > > > > > Also Saurav can u tel me a mantra for Lakshmi...Would it be a Vishnu > > > form and having bhagwate in lines? > > > > > > Pranam swati > > > > > > Namah Shivaya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sourav" souravc108@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > > > > > Dear Swati, > > > > > > > > Namaskar. Are you sure he indicated Chandrama > > > > for Ishtadevata ? Can you quote what he said ? > > > > > > > > Btw, "if" Mangal/Rahu indicated any devata, worshipping that devata will > > > > not bring trouble ? Worship never brings trouble. > > > > > > > > In your case natural choice would be Lakshmi as Ishtadevata. Yes, > > > > lording of 12-th from KK by the AK itself is a lakshana for > > > > incarnations themselves. Ref to charts of Sri Krishna and Sri Chaitanya > > > > Mahaprabhu. But in their cases their AK's had the strongest influence > > > > amongst all influencing grahas to the 12-th. > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > Sourav > > > > > > > > ================================================================= > > > > > > > > > > > > , "swazz_oyzter" <healingspaces@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > > > > > > > > Pranam to al Guruji's...Well such a discussion could not refrain me > > > > > from asking and saying... > > > > > Why did Vistiji choose Moon in my chart which aspects the Ak > > > > > itself...and doesnt aspects to 12th of karakamsa and aspects Ak > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > Neither did he choose the lord of Taurus which is Ak Venus itself .I > > > > > heard the 12th lord of karakamsa and Ak same its good and strengthens > > > > > to desire to liberate.So shouldnt have i gone for venus itself...i > > > > > think Vistiji would have a reason for this and may be it works as he > > > > > chose Moon for me to may be strengthen and see my desire itself. > > > > > > > > > > Also looking back i think choice of mars and rahu may also be an > > > > > option, but they sitting in 4th may create problems too. > > > > > > > > > > i think there are many answers to each problem....or we can say there > > > > > are many problems with each solution.The Key is to practise may be.As > > > > > long as one is willing and channelising, the flow may come on its own, > > > > > from whatever direction. > > > > > > > > > > Pranam > > > > > Swati > > > > > For ref details given > > > > > > > > > > Swati DOB 15th April 1979 TOB 18:05 POB Jaipur City Rajasthan > > > > > Latitude 26' N 55" Longitude 75' E 49" Lagna Virgo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sourav" souravc108@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rafal, > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskar. That is what I am trying to say. There > > > > > > are a number of different ways, those bunch of rules are applied. > > > > > > > > > > > > In Robert-ji's Book (Spiritual Dimensions..) he mentions the > > > > following: > > > > > > > > > > > > * If there are grahas in the 12-th from KK take from them; if more > > > > > > than one consider strength based on exaltation, own sign etc. If > > > > still > > > > > > there is a tie, consider grahas with highest longitude. > > > > > > * If still there is a tie, consider the most benefic (in order of > > > > > > Guru, Shukra, Budha and Chandra) > > > > > > * If no grahas take the stronger between the 12-th lord and the > > > > > > rasi-aspectors. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a compromise between the two sets we were discussing. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sourav > > > > > > > > > > > > ================================================================= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Rafal" <starsuponme@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sourav, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think in VRA there is an example of aspect before lord. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > Rafal Gendarz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sourav" souravc108@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Anurag-ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskar. I think we should be clear > > > > > > > > about this. These are thumbrules and interpretive in nature. > > > > > > Sanjay-ji > > > > > > > > always emphasizes on ABC rule. A- planets in a house, B-planet > > > > > > ruling a > > > > > > > > house C-planet aspecting a house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I choose C-before B-, it may be because I don't want the > > > > process > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > spiritual evolution of the native by bringing something that > > > > comes > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > the end to the beginning, in the process. Ishta means 'most > > > > > > desirable' & > > > > > > > > 'most beneficial' and really speaking does not relate to a > > > > standard > > > > > > > > Siva or Rama etc. "To each his own". It is a personal > > > > experience. > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > astrologer can only help a guide. In the million steps in > > > > spiritual > > > > > > > > evolution, we can help the native by making him skip only ten > > > > steps > > > > > > > > forward by suggestion of Ishta worship. It doesn't end there. > > > > > > (quoting > > > > > > > > Narasimha-ji here, who said: there is no rigorous single > > > > solution > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > Ishta-devata and if you vary in interpretation, dont be afraid > > > > to > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > your suggestion, as it will finally lead him/her to the goal. ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sanjay-ji often said that Ishta devata worship means recognizing > > > > the > > > > > > > > 'sarva-vyapakesa' or One who is everywhere - that idea. The > > > > > > suggestions > > > > > > > > we make are those forms which can be easily adhered to by the > > > > native > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > a latent possibility. Hence from this viewpoint, ABC still > > > > applies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > More often than not, I have seen use of lord over aspectors > > > > amongst > > > > > > SJC > > > > > > > > Gurus. Gandhi-ji's is not the only case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sourav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ================================================================= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "anuraagsharma27" > > > > > > > > <anuraagsharma27@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Samir, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And so it would seem from Sourav's post in Sohamsa. But the > > > > rule > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > given slightly differently in Sanjay Ji's text and I have only > > > > had > > > > > > > > > the benefit of the instruction contained therein thus far. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anurag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Samir Shah solaris.smoke@ > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || hare räma kåñna || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Anurag, Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was taught that the lord of the 12th from > > > > > > > > > > Karakamsa always shows the real Ishta > > > > > > > > > > Devata. The planets influencing the house by > > > > > > > > > > aspect, however, can show the deities that will > > > > > > > > > > lead us to this Ishta. So sometimes we reach > > > > > > > > > > there in a roundabout way, rather then going in a > > > > > > > > > > straight line. Either way, we end up in the right place! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope that helps, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Samir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 12:25 25/05/2006, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >Dear Sanjay Ji,Visti and learned Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Namaskar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Upon reading the analysis of Gandhi Ji's Navamsha Chakra in > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > >January issue of the Jyotish Digest, I am a bit perplexed > > > > as to > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > >computation of the Ishta Devata in the instant case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sanjay Ji has taught in Vedic Remedies in Astrology that > > > > for > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > >determination of the deities, the Grahas in the 12th Bhava > > > > from > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > >Karakamsha (for Ishta Devata) is to be seen first. If there > > > > are > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > > >Grahas, then Grahas having Rashi Drishti must be seen. If > > > > no > > > > > > > > > Grahas > > > > > > > > > > >have Rashi Drishti, then the lord(s) of the Rashi must be > > > > > > > > > seen.This > > > > > > > > > > >is given right at the beginning of Chapter III on Page 55 > > > > > > > > > > >on 'Astrological principles'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >In Gandhi Ji's Navamsha Chakra, though Shani and Budh both > > > > > > aspect > > > > > > > > > > >the Dwadash Bhava from the Lagnamsha and the Karakamsha, > > > > their > > > > > > > > > Rashi > > > > > > > > > > >Drishti has not been considered and Mangal as the lord of > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > >relevant Bhava has been seen instead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Why has this departure from the standard rules been made? > > > > Are > > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > >any special reasons for the same? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Kindly instruct in this regard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Best Wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Anurag. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >~ om tat sat ~ > > > > > > > > > > >Thank you for maintaining the decorum of the Achyuta > > > > Ashram. > > > > > > > > > > >Reminders: (1) Recite the Shadakshari Mantra 'Hare Rama > > > > > > Krishna' > > > > > > > > > > >(2) Try to become Vegetarian - remember Akbar > > > > > > > > > > >the Great who said that the human stomach should > > > > > > > > > > >not become a graveyard for animals. > > > > > > > > > > >(3) Practise charity in thought and deed - do one free > > > > chart > > > > > > > > > reading today > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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