Amitabh's Jup antars - Savana Vs Vimshottari

May 20, 2006

Om Datta Guru

Dear Chandrashekharji,

The data is 16.00 but if i remember there was war time in that period &

hence Goravani finally gives it what other softwares give it as 15.00.

i.e the Lagna is Aq 1.56 or 1.44, 2-3 yrs back when i didnt have

appropriate softwares I saw the lagna degree in KN Raos book & corrected

the birth time.

Lets get the chart correct first and get to Jup antars

1. If Jup is a Maraka then how come in Jups Mahadasha he didnt have

death like suffering, what is known so far i s he was in the BEST school

in india, had Rajiv Gandhi as his friends during Jup Mahadasha. His Jup

mahadasa happened when he was very young and it is good that he didnt

enter the film industry then, apart from other reasons for delay in the

rise in his career, Sat as 10th lord retro from AL, how could his

Aroodha manifest early. Others would have different opinion and wouldn't

get into another thread, already this thread is too long.

2. I am not sure if a Maraka Planet erases a Gajeshara Yoga.

If lower

> level dashas and gochar is not to be factored in how would you explain

this?

3. Can a lower level dasha & gochar promise such Great acheivements,

I already showed it through release dateas didnt you read my mail, we

would be going in circles . for so long in the lists people say that if

maha & antar doesnt promise anything then transits and other subsidiary

PDs are of no use and now this is new to me, but am keeping open mind.

I shall explain at the end of this thread why Jup will give mixed

results & why it is suicidal to judge an antar by just one factor of

Maraka if a period or planet is BAD. But ofcourse my explanation would

just be an attempt and can be called "Match Fixing Astrology" but i

would use one of Patels expositions among other things

This discussion is going nowhere & consuming both our times according to

me so I request & hope you will get the chart correct & lets go back to

Savana & 365 and only then we would come toknow how his Jup fared in

both the systems & then come to some conclusion

SJ

, Chandrashekhar

<chandrashekhar46> wrote:

>

> Dear Sunil,

> If you want to remain within Amitabha's Mahadasha as you seem to

> indicate. His Jupiter Mahadasha ran from 7.8.1950 to 15.5.1966. I do

not

> think he was a successful star then. Now as you want to remain in

> Jupiter dasha, the point that it was not very good for him is

apparent,

> since he perhaps made a breakthrough with Zanzeer in 1973. That is why

I

> used antar dasha of Jupiter in Saturn when he was in the industry. I

get

> Jupiter in Sat between 7.8.1982 and 4.2.1985. You appear to get a

> different dasha order.

>

> I have his date and time of birth as Oct. 11. 1942 15.00 Allahabad. Do

> you have any other data, that the dasha order you get appears to be

> different. If we are talking about a different data then, apparently,

> the discussion can not reach any fruitful conclusion.

>

> As to your comment that people remain jobless for 5 or 15 years

period,

> there are some who change jobs multiple times within a year. If lower

> level dashas and gochar is not to be factored in how would you explain

this?

>

> Chandrashekhar.

> suniljohn_2002 wrote:

> > Om Datta Guru

> >

> > Dear Chandrashekharji

> > Pls find my reply below as SJ

> >

> > , Chandrashekhar

> > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Sunil,

> > >

> > > I said through out as you wanted to attribute some stray good

> > incidents

> > > to Jupiter dasha operating. And by the way you are using different

> > > parameters for Vimshottari than what are told by Garga and Narada.

So

> > > some success might be seen in there. In every dasha there are

antar

> > > dashas, pratyantar dashas etc. and different gochar position of

> > grahas.

> > >

> >

> > SJ:

> >

> > 1. Now parameters of discussion are changing in sentences, the word

> > 'Through Out' was clear & ur basis of this discussion spanning so

many

> > days was Jup is MARAKA for Aq lagna is significant and now we allot

good

> > incidents in this antar to PDs, SDs & gochara, then u surely know

that

> > many people remain jobless for say 5 yrs or 20 yrs and all the

> > Pratyantar dashas and sookshama dasas and antars and all the gochars

> > (transits) have come and gone but NO EFFECT

> >

> > 2. U said "I wanted to contribute to Jup antar some STRAY Good

> > incidents" - well I do not know if u watch hindi movies but movies

like

> > Shahenshah, Angeepath, BLACK & BAGBAN (last one -in the light that

it

> > got him back on the charts) , two of this come under CAREER BEST &

are

> > not STRAY incidents where the MARAKA suddenly decides not to act so.

> >

> > Remarks:

> > Post Mortem of Jup antar of Amitabh in Sat & Mer Dasa

> >

> > v Amitabhs Sat/Jup

> >

> > SAVANA SYSTEM

> > According to Savana system of 360 days Sat/Jup - 30th aug 1987 to

27th

> > Feb 1990 -- is running & IT SHOULD BE BAD

> >

> > 1. Agneepath was released on Feb 16th 1990 (still in Savana period

of

> > Jup antar) http://www.indiafm.com/movies/cast/5383/index.html

> > <http://www.indiafm.com/movies/cast/5383/index.html>

> >

> > 2. Shahenshah was released on Feb 12th 1988 (still in Savana period

of

> > Jup antar)

> >

> > http://www.indiafm.com/movies/cast/5207/index.html

> > <http://www.indiafm.com/movies/cast/5207/index.html>

> >

> > Surely even if we follow Savana year 360 days and Jup as MARAKA --

> > any bollywood actor would give an arm & his life to have such a

Maraka

> > which gives him 2 GREAT HITS movies, the movie Agneepath is a Legend

and

> > the character of Vijay Dinanath Chauhan & Don has never been

portrayed

> > like that by any actor. Every actor would desire such a Maraka

period.

> > If I remember well he won his 1st national award for this inspite of

> > being in the movie industry for more than 15 yrs & delivering non

stop

> > hits (writing for memory)

> >

> > Vim Dasa of 365 Days

> > 1. If we follow the 365 days then Sat/Jup is from 35th Apr 1988 to

6th

> > Nov 1990 & BOTH THE HIT MOVIES WERE RELEASED IN THIS PERIOD

> >

> > v Amitabhs Mer/Jup --

> >

> > SAVANA SYSTEM

> >

> > 10th Jan 2002 to 5th Apr 2004 -- Savana system

> >

> > HIT MOVIES within this period

> >

> > 1) Baghban (release year:2003)

> >

> > Vim Dasa of 365 Days

> > v Mer/Jup -- 21st Nov 2002 to 26th Feb 2005 -- 365days Vim

> > Dasa

> >

> > 1) Baghban (release year:2003)

> >

> > 2) BLACK -- one of the most coveted films for him (Release date

> > --4th Feb 2005 --see link below) as we know Black was slated for

> > the OSCARS but industry politics took over.

> >

> > http://www.indiafm.com/movies/cast/7207/index.html

> >

> > (in one of my previous mails I had taken Bunty aur babli for 2005,

which

> > is true but the release date is 27th May 2005 so it doesn't come

> > under the preview of our antar -- my apologies since I went general

> > on the year and memory)

> >

> > Conclusion

> >

> > 1. It is clearly shown by both Savana & 365 days system that

his

> > JUP antar (being a MARAKA) also gave him Hits and Fabulous Hits. (as

> > there is a saying in the industry, one `Lagaan' is Enough to

> > Wipe out the entire Bad Phase -- aka Ashutosh Gowariker)

> >

> > 2. There are and can be many reasons as to why Jup antar also

gave

> > him fantastic results & can not be judged a Maraka since 2 of his

Top

> > 5-10 movies are in this Period. same way there are many reasons why

this

> > Jup antar gave him bad results also

> >

> > 3. 365 days vimshottari dasa system vs Sayana system shows a

marked

> > difference

> >

> > 4. KN Rao's famous prediction during the Coolie Accident might

> > have been based on 365 days as he has used the dasha pattern

minutely in

> > his analysis in his book Ups and Downs in Career

> >

> > SJ

> >

> > > As to Agnipath, it appears to be released in Feb. 1990 film when

he

> > was

> > > running Mer-Venus period and I do not understand its linkage to

> > Jupiter

> > > antar. Of course, I do not have the encyclopedic knowledge that

you

> > possess.

> > >

> > > I would appreciate the hits that he had in Jupiter antardasha

using

> > 360

> > > Savana days year, that you refer to.

> > >

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > suniljohn_2002 wrote:

> > > > Om Datta Guru

> > > >

> > > > Dear Chandrashehkarji,

> > > >

> > > > 1. I have shown by factual data that Jup antar is giving MIXED

> > results

> > > > extreme good and extreme bad . U used the word " Through Out",

so

> > how

> > > > come in Jup antar he also had Huge Hits. Think about this.

> > > >

> > > > 2. Even if we follow Savana days 360, still Jup antar has given

him

> > hit

> > > > Movies ALSO.

> > > >

> > > > 3. In both the antars of Jup in Sat and Mer mahadasa, even by

Savana

> > > > years system he has had some phenomenal hits.

> > > >

> > > > Think about it

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > > SJ

> > > >

> > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Sunil,

> > > > >

> > > > > If Jupiter not giving bad results through out its dasha means

he

> > is

> > > > not

> > > > > a Maraka, then how does it giving many flops makes him good

for

> > > > > Amitabha? Think about this.

> > > > >

> > > > > The reason you get different date is that perhaps KNR follows

> > 365.2425

> > > > > day year for Vimshottari dasha calculations. I use 360 Savana

days

> > for

> > > > > Vimshottari dasha as I have said many a times on almost all

the

> > lists

> > > > > that I write on.

> > > > >

> > > > > Take care,

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > suniljohn_2002 wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Datta Guru

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Chandrashekharji,

> > > > > > Sorry for the delayed response, schedule has been erratic.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > U wrote:

> > > > > > > I think you have not read all the mails I sent carefully.

I

> > said

> > > > that

> > > > > > > for Vimshottari dasha implications Jupiter is a maraka and

> > then

> > > > you

> > > > > > gave

> > > > > > > the extract of what KNR said.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > SJ: I have read all this very carefully. Since you said

> > according to

> > > > > > Parasari rules (of vimshottari dasa) Jup is maraca for aq

lagna,

> > I

> > > > > > showed that it has still ALSO given GOOD results & I didn't

> > > > immediately

> > > > > > give KNRs article, infact for quite some time I didn't even

know

> > > > such an

> > > > > > article of his existed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I first mentioned his Sat/Jup & showed how Agneepath & one

more

> > > > movie

> > > > > > did well (writing from memory now) BUT in a later email I

also

> > > > mentioned

> > > > > > that he had flops in that same period & the same I showed

that

> > in

> > > > > > Mer/Jup he had hits and flops too showing MIXED results but

> > > > definitely

> > > > > > not a ZERO period or bad period or maraca period. In my

mails to

> > > > Bharat

> > > > > > or Satya or both it clearly shows that Finally & I did

mention

> > in

> > > > the

> > > > > > 2nd or 3rd mail to Bharat or Satya that there were flops

also in

> > > > Sat/Jup

> > > > > > period which no one mentioned.

> > > > > > U wrote: I also said that Jupiter in 6th did not give

good

> > > > results of

> > > > > > the 6th bhava. Please read what I have said, in earlier

mails. I

> > > > trust

> > > > > > this will clarify the matter. SJ: This is the mail of urs

> > > > > > /message/10671

> > > > > > <../../../../../../message/10671> I reproduce below Dear

> > Bharat, If

> > > > I

> > > > > > may add. The chart of Amitabha that I have shows Aquarius

Lagna.

> > > > Jupiter

> > > > > > is the 2nd and the 11 th lord. To the best of my knowledge,

2nd

> > and

> > > > 7th

> > > > > > lords are primary Maraka and so is the 11th lord on a lower

> > level.

> > > > > > Parashara clearly states that he is a Maraka Ch.34 shloka 41

and

> > 42.

> > > > > > SJ: We have clearly seen that this definition of Maraca has

> > still

> > > > given

> > > > > > him rise in life and if one may say phenomenal and not just

> > > > mediocre.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I would not like to question your knowledge about film

> > personalities

> > > > but

> > > > > > I get his Saturn Jupiter period as 30th Aug 1987 to 27th

Feb.

> > 1990.

> > > > > > SJ: 1) I am following Shri KNRao's data and I get Sat/Jup

from

> > 25th

> > > > > > Apr 88 to 6th Nov 1990 which differs by quite some months

from

> > what

> > > > you

> > > > > > wrote above I do not possess dates of his movie & refer to

> > > > > > http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000821/

> > > > > > <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000821/> I do not possess the

real

> > > > dates

> > > > > > of release of his movies and in Sat/Jup I could be wrong on

> > > > Agneepath &

> > > > > > Shahenshah but surely there is no mistake in Mer/Jup -- the

same

> > > > > > maraca period. U may draw ur own conclusions. SJ

> > > > > > P.S: Bharat, did I miss post on your reply on Blind charts

(I

> > don't

> > > > read

> > > > > > all mails since I do not to individual mails)

> > > > > > or is it that you have decided to let that go. I took

pains

> > to

> > > > find

> > > > > > out some biographical facts about Amitabha and here is what

is

> > said

> > > > > > about that period. "His return in 1987 was lukewarm as the

> > Hindi

> > > > film

> > > > > > industry had moved on and newer, younger heroes essayed the

part

> > of

> > > > > > Angry Young Man with more conviction. Bachchan seemed to

have

> > lost

> > > > his

> > > > > > heart in making films as his later roles did not show the

> > flicker of

> > > > > > passion that had marked earlier efforts in the 1970s. In

1989,

> > for

> > > > the

> > > > > > first time since 1976, three of his films were flops i.e.

they

> > could

> > > > not

> > > > > > recover their money (in the Hindi film industry a flop is a

film

> > > > that

> > > > > > does not recover a distributor's price, not the producer's

> > cost). A

> > > > > > series of lackluster films in the 1990s pointed to a long

> > overdue

> > > > exit,

> > > > > > common to many other stars. A seemingly well-thought out

venture

> > to

> > > > > > start a production company ABCL landed him in immense debts.

"

> > You

> > > > may

> > > > > > draw your own conclusions. Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Bharat,

> > > > > > > If I may add. The chart of Amitabha that I have shows

Aquarius

> > > > Lagna.

> > > > > > > Jupiter is the 2nd and the 11 th lord. To the best of my

> > > > knowledge,

> > > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > and 7th lords are primary Maraka and so is the 11th lord

on a

> > > > lower

> > > > > > > level. Parashara clearly states that he is a Maraka Ch.34

> > shloka

> > > > 41

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > 42. I do not understand where is the confusion in Sunil's

> > mind. If

> > > > my

> > > > > > > information is correct his Jupiter Dasha was over by 1971

and

> > he

> > > > was

> > > > > > > not a great name during that period. He gained fame in

Saturn

> > > > Dasha.

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Bharat Hindu Astrology wrote:

> > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sunil

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My notes are in Blue

> > > > > > > > "Sri" is the true nature and cannot aggravate the ego,

> > however

> > > > you

> > > > > > may

> > > > > > > > try.

> > > > > > > > Nonetheless, I shall call you as per your wishes.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekharji wrote: Jupiter being Maraka and 11th

lord

> > would

> > > > not

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > good results according to principles of

Vimshottari

> > dasha

> > > > > > > > applications

> > > > > > > > SJ:I then wrote out my attempt to see how Jup has given

him

> > Good

> > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > also though Chandrashekharji's mail classified it as

Maraka,

> > so

> > > > I

> > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > using

> > > > > > > > the same Vimshottari Dasa to show that his Jup antar in

Sat

> > Maha

> > > > > > gave him

> > > > > > > > phenomenal hits too and was not a complete maraca &

basic

> > rules

> > > > of

> > > > > > > > Vimshottari might not have worked, also Jup is 3rd from

> > Mahadasa

> > > > so

> > > > > > some

> > > > > > > > might say a not good period. Here the discussion went

> > tangential

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > Mahapurusha Yoga

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Bharat: I have typed notes of Sri N. N. Krishna Rau on

> > Mahadasha

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > Bhukti

> > > > > > > > Phala as per Dravida Sastra, Kerala Jyotish Sastra,

> > Ashtavarga

> > > > > > Bindus,

> > > > > > > > Uthmamasa, and Parijatamsa. Under Shani mahadasha, if

> > Jupiter is

> > > > 3rd

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > Mahadasha lord, then he says:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Auspicious functions like marriages at home; well being

of

> > wife

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > children; birth of children; prosperity to

master/employer;

> > gain

> > > > of

> > > > > > money

> > > > > > > > due to grace of king; and goes on to mention other

benefic

> > > > results.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Besides I have seen, atleast in the little number of

charts

> > that

> > > > I

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > studied, that whenever a Gajakesari Yoga is formed with

> > Jupiter

> > > > in a

> > > > > > > > dushtana, then it protects the native from the problems

> > arising

> > > > out

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > dusthana. This too I read somewhere and now I can't

place

> > who

> > > > said

> > > > > > it.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As far as maraka is concerned, I have already given my

views

> > > > that

> > > > > > Ketu

> > > > > > > > is a

> > > > > > > > first rate maraka for him.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I think you mentioned Jup Mahadasa, I think he might

have

> > passed

> > > > Jup

> > > > > > > > Mahadasa before his film career started or maybe u did a

> > typo by

> > > > > > mistake.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It was a typo, what I intended to say was in mahadasha

and

> > > > > > anterdasha,

> > > > > > > > Jupiter would generally protect and do good. Moreover,

his

> > movie

> > > > > > career

> > > > > > > > started in Jupiter-Rahu but was awared for his

supportive

> > role

> > > > as

> > > > > > soon as

> > > > > > > > Saturn-Saturn started. But remember, he was an

accomplished

> > > > Theatre

> > > > > > Artist

> > > > > > > > before the movie career. However, Jupiter also got him

> > rejected

> > > > at

> > > > > > All

> > > > > > > > India

> > > > > > > > Radio and some struggle before he started gaining

ground. If

> > we

> > > > have

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > dates, perhaps we can see the anterdasha and transits

that

> > might

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > led to

> > > > > > > > the same.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > As far as Mahapurusha Yoga Bhanga is concerned. Sri R.

G.

> > Rao

> > > > has

> > > > > > > > given some

> > > > > > > > nadi rules in "Core of Nadi Astrology". If you want I

can

> > state

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > same for

> > > > > > > > discussion in this group.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thank you for the 3 charts and I shall study them and

give

> > my

> > > > views.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > > > > > Bharat

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On 5/12/06, Sunil John suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Bharat,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Namaste

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Request: Kindly call me only Sunil no Sri pls it can

> > aggravate

> > > > ego

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > self.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Pls find my reply below as SJ

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Sunil

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Why is there an assumption that only a Mahapurusha

Yoga

> > will

> > > > give

> > > > > > Sri

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Amitabh Bachchan the success he has?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > SJ: I don't think so there is an assumption that ONLY

a

> > > > > > mahrapurusha

> > > > > > > > yoga

> > > > > > > > > in not only Amitabh or but anybodys chart is the sole

> > criteria

> > > > for

> > > > > > > > success,

> > > > > > > > > I am sure a 1 to 6 month old student of astrology can

> > vouch

> > > > for

> > > > > > that.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In the last mail I was not writing on Mahapurusha Yoga

as

> > I

> > > > stated

> > > > > > > > clearly

> > > > > > > > > (I feel) and I was commenting on Jup giving good

results

> > Also.

> > > > I

> > > > > > > > copy below

> > > > > > > > > what I had specified in previous mail

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekharji wrote: Jupiter being Maraka and 11th

lord

> > > > would

> > > > > > not > >

> > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > good results according to principles of

Vimshottari

> > > > dasha

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > applications

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > SJ: Then I wrote

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Presumption: From above that Jup is not giving good

> > results

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > SJ:I then wrote out my attempt to see how Jup has

given

> > him

> > > > Good

> > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > > also though Chandrashekharji's mail classified it as

> > Maraka,

> > > > so I

> > > > > > > > was using

> > > > > > > > > the same Vimshottari Dasa to show that his Jup antar

in

> > Sat

> > > > Maha

> > > > > > > > gave him

> > > > > > > > > phenomenal hits too and was not a complete maraca &

basic

> > > > rules of

> > > > > > > > > Vimshottari might not have worked, also Jup is 3rd

from

> > > > Mahadasa

> > > > > > so some

> > > > > > > > > might say a not good period. Here the discussion went

> > > > tangential

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha Yoga

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I think you mentioned Jup Mahadasa, I think he might

have

> > > > passed

> > > > > > Jup

> > > > > > > > > Mahadasa before his film career started or maybe u did

a

> > typo

> > > > by

> > > > > > > > mistake.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > U wrote: I hope this are not my mental rumblings and

> > actually

> > > > help

> > > > > > > > in your

> > > > > > > > > understanding.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Bharat, thanks for ur good attempt but honestly I

> > have

> > > > been

> > > > > > > > unable to

> > > > > > > > > understand the exceptions rules of Mahapurusha yoga

since

> > what

> > > > > > rules

> > > > > > > > were

> > > > > > > > > given in this list when applied didn't stand the test

of

> > > > > > consistency,

> > > > > > > > > ofcourse at the end of the day we all can say easily

that

> > the

> > > > yoga

> > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > manifested or not manifested to prove a theory.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I could have replied to Chandrashekharji when he

wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Amritanandamayi ma.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Shasha yoga has manifested. But one also has to

understand

> > > > that

> > > > > > the time

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > might not have been recorded correctly, looking at the

> > birth

> > > > > > details.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The chart is drawn for 9.09 hr.s.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > SJ: I refused to do so since if we assume that what he

> > wrote

> > > > that

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > birth time might not have been recorded properly,

still

> > even

> > > > if we

> > > > > > > > change

> > > > > > > > > the birth time by 2 hrs still the degs of Sat do not

> > change

> > > > much

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > still in INFANT stage,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The biggest impediment as we know is to pin down if a

> > > > Mahapurusha

> > > > > > > > Yoga has

> > > > > > > > > worked or not since very easily we can say that even

> > though

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > person is

> > > > > > > > > successful, famous, has achieved a lot, still we can

prove

> > it

> > > > is

> > > > > > > > achieved by

> > > > > > > > > other yogas.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I think we have taken one approach of listing down the

> > rules

> > > > of

> > > > > > M.P yoga

> > > > > > > > > bhangas & seen them not properly working on 10 charts,

but

> > we

> > > > > > faced

> > > > > > > > > impediment on accepting in certain cases (even when

taken

> > from

> > > > > > > > lagna) if the

> > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha yoga has worked or not example another

case of

> > > > Galileo

> > > > > > > > where the

> > > > > > > > > rules are not working. If we do Honest astrology , the

> > word

> > > > > > > > popularized by

> > > > > > > > > KNR then the rules are not working and we should as

honest

> > > > > > students

> > > > > > > > accept

> > > > > > > > > it and try to search more. But since that has not

happened

> > > > maybe

> > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > can take

> > > > > > > > > some blind charts and try to predict if the

Mahapurusha

> > yoga

> > > > has

> > > > > > > > worked by

> > > > > > > > > predicting Career, Success etc.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Pls realize that my intention is to get to the bottom

of a

> > > > > > workable

> > > > > > > > > approach and truth of the technique unlike others who

only

> > > > > > criticize

> > > > > > > > or pass

> > > > > > > > > snide remarks or try to be "Politically correct" as I

have

> > > > > > realized

> > > > > > > > all the

> > > > > > > > > above is pure waste of time and not being honest

towards

> > our

> > > > > > approach to

> > > > > > > > > astrology..

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Also it is possible by knowing the chart before hand

we

> > get

> > > > > > > > influenced to

> > > > > > > > > beleive if the yoga is working or not, a blind chart

might

> > be

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > a better approach for us all.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I paste below for you & also others 3 charts

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1) Natal Chart 1: Date: July 6, 1942, Time:

> > > > > > 9:30:00,

> > > > > > > > > Time Zone: 5:04:00 (East of GMT), Place:

76 E

> > 02'

> > > > 00",

> > > > > > > > 11 N 31'

> > > > > > > > > 00", Place: vayithiri

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 2) Female: Date: December 28, 1972, Time:

> > > > > > 5:02:00

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Place: 71 E 14' 00", 21 N 37' 00"

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Amreli, India

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Would love to hear someone predict her profession & if

at

> > all

> > > > how

> > > > > > > > much she

> > > > > > > > > earns. The reasoning is what I am looking for.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 3) Date: October 6, 1942, Time:

7:30:00,

> > > > Time

> > > > > > Zone:

> > > > > > > > > 6:00:00 (West of GMT)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Place: 105 W 50' 24", 46 N 24' 30", Miles

City,

> > > > > > Montana, USA

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Re Time of birth: He told me that the hospital records

is

> > not

> > > > in

> > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > possession but his mother told him that the time was

> > fairly

> > > > > > accurate.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 4) Natal Chart,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Date: December 2, 1973

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Time: 21:40:00

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Place: 72 E 55' 00", 19 N 05' 00"

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 5) Natal Chart, Date: August 7, 1963

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Time: 21:14:00

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Place: 83 E 58' 00", 21 N 27' 00"

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 6) Date: September 10, 1943

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Time: 4:19:00

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Time Zone: 5:00:00 (West of GMT)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Place: 87 W 54' 23", 43 N 02' 20"

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Altitude: 0.00 meters

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The time is confirmed by the native

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 7) Date: April 20, 1972

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Time: 10:37:00

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Place: 72 E 55' 00", 19 N 05' 00"

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Time is confirmed by native

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Sunil

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > a)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I was thinking about your question and

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > following could be the reasons for his success in

> > Jupiter's

> > > > > > mahadasha:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1. Jupiter is Rashi Vargottama.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 2. As 2nd and 5th lord from the 10th, it sustains his

> > career

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > > creativity.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 3. Exalted in 9th from the 10th house, it gives him

> > success.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 4. Jupiter is in own navamsha and hence the guna isn't

> > spoilt.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You had also asked about his angry man image: If you

see

> > the

> > > > Mars

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > placed

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > in Moon's nakshatra. His acting abilities and

consistency

> > is

> > > > > > unmatched -

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Check Venus in nakshatra of Moon connecting it to the

9th

> > > > house.

> > > > > > Under

> > > > > > > > > some

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > nadi principles, this means Venus is strong as if in

own

> > > > house.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Another thing about his horoscope is Rahu, though in

the

> > 7th

> > > > house

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > connected to the lagna through nakshatra linkage of

Ketu.

> > It

> > > > gives

> > > > > > him

> > > > > > > > > mass

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > following or "attraction". Infact, Ketu becomes the

> > markesh

> > > > given

> > > > > > > > the same

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > logic. Sun and Moon are traditionally not considered

as

> > first

> > > > rate

> > > > > > > > markesh

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > but in his case Sun is in nakshatra of Mars and both

Sun

> > and

> > > > Mars

> > > > > > are in

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 8th house. This makes Sun have a strong say in matters

of

> > Sri

> > > > > > Amitabh's

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > longevity.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Whenever Sun, Ketu dashas or antardashas run, he can

have

> > > > > > accidents or

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > problems or life threatening situations.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In my view, given the above Mahapurusha Yogas need not

be

> > > > there in

> > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > and I agree to Sri Chandrashekharji's view regarding

the

> > same.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I hope this are not my mental rumblings and actually

help

> > in

> > > > your

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > understanding.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Bharat

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your

phone.

> > > > > > > > >

May 21, 2006

Dear Sunil,

It appears there are too many times of Amitabha floating around.

Dr. Shankar Says"1. Taking the Date of Birth as October 11, 1942 at

14.00 hrs in Allahabad (Uttar Pradesh), the horoscope has an exalted

Jupiter with Rahu in Leo, Sun, Mars, Venus and Mercury in Virgo, Moon

and Libra, Ketu and Aquarius and a retrograde Saturn in Taurus."

Some appear to say it is 16.00 hr. You say it is 15.00 hrs ( you are

right that war time has to be considered for 1942) the data I have says

it is 15.00 and so on. But as you can see I am using the same time.

About it appears that the texts you refer to say something about maraka

graha giving deathlike experience, without appropriate Gochar

simultaneously occurring, that you appear to expect. Vimshottari dasha

interpretations do not happen that way. You may like to read Ududaaya

Pradeep, before we can take this discussion any further. Of course if in

your opinion Jupiter is not Maraka for Aquarius lagna then you are

referring to something other than Vedic astrology and I am not

acquainted with any such other form of astrology. I was always under the

impression, since you began the thread with Panch Mahapurusha yoga, that

you are referring to Vedic astrology. It now appears I was not correct

in such assumption.

Chandrashekhar.

suniljohn_2002 wrote:

> Om Datta Guru

> Dear Chandrashekharji,

>

> The data is 16.00 but if i remember there was war time in that period &

> hence Goravani finally gives it what other softwares give it as 15.00.

> i.e the Lagna is Aq 1.56 or 1.44, 2-3 yrs back when i didnt have

> appropriate softwares I saw the lagna degree in KN Raos book & corrected

> the birth time.

>

> Lets get the chart correct first and get to Jup antars

>

> 1. If Jup is a Maraka then how come in Jups Mahadasha he didnt have

> death like suffering, what is known so far i s he was in the BEST school

> in india, had Rajiv Gandhi as his friends during Jup Mahadasha. His Jup

> mahadasa happened when he was very young and it is good that he didnt

> enter the film industry then, apart from other reasons for delay in the

> rise in his career, Sat as 10th lord retro from AL, how could his

> Aroodha manifest early. Others would have different opinion and wouldn't

> get into another thread, already this thread is too long.

>

> 2. I am not sure if a Maraka Planet erases a Gajeshara Yoga.

>

> If lower

> > level dashas and gochar is not to be factored in how would you explain

> this?

>

> 3. Can a lower level dasha & gochar promise such Great acheivements,

> I already showed it through release dateas didnt you read my mail, we

> would be going in circles . for so long in the lists people say that if

> maha & antar doesnt promise anything then transits and other subsidiary

> PDs are of no use and now this is new to me, but am keeping open mind.

> I shall explain at the end of this thread why Jup will give mixed

> results & why it is suicidal to judge an antar by just one factor of

> Maraka if a period or planet is BAD. But ofcourse my explanation would

> just be an attempt and can be called "Match Fixing Astrology" but i

> would use one of Patels expositions among other things

>

> This discussion is going nowhere & consuming both our times according to

> me so I request & hope you will get the chart correct & lets go back to

> Savana & 365 and only then we would come toknow how his Jup fared in

> both the systems & then come to some conclusion

>

> SJ

>

> , Chandrashekhar

> <chandrashekhar46> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sunil,

> > If you want to remain within Amitabha's Mahadasha as you seem to

> > indicate. His Jupiter Mahadasha ran from 7.8.1950 to 15.5.1966. I do

> not

> > think he was a successful star then. Now as you want to remain in

> > Jupiter dasha, the point that it was not very good for him is

> apparent,

> > since he perhaps made a breakthrough with Zanzeer in 1973. That is why

> I

> > used antar dasha of Jupiter in Saturn when he was in the industry. I

> get

> > Jupiter in Sat between 7.8.1982 and 4.2.1985. You appear to get a

> > different dasha order.

> >

> > I have his date and time of birth as Oct. 11. 1942 15.00 Allahabad. Do

> > you have any other data, that the dasha order you get appears to be

> > different. If we are talking about a different data then, apparently,

> > the discussion can not reach any fruitful conclusion.

> >

> > As to your comment that people remain jobless for 5 or 15 years

> period,

> > there are some who change jobs multiple times within a year. If lower

> > level dashas and gochar is not to be factored in how would you explain

> this?

> >

> > Chandrashekhar.

> > suniljohn_2002 wrote:

> > > Om Datta Guru

> > >

> > > Dear Chandrashekharji

> > > Pls find my reply below as SJ

> > >

> > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Sunil,

> > > >

> > > > I said through out as you wanted to attribute some stray good

> > > incidents

> > > > to Jupiter dasha operating. And by the way you are using different

> > > > parameters for Vimshottari than what are told by Garga and Narada.

> So

> > > > some success might be seen in there. In every dasha there are

> antar

> > > > dashas, pratyantar dashas etc. and different gochar position of

> > > grahas.

> > > >

> > >

> > > SJ:

> > >

> > > 1. Now parameters of discussion are changing in sentences, the word

> > > 'Through Out' was clear & ur basis of this discussion spanning so

> many

> > > days was Jup is MARAKA for Aq lagna is significant and now we allot

> good

> > > incidents in this antar to PDs, SDs & gochara, then u surely know

> that

> > > many people remain jobless for say 5 yrs or 20 yrs and all the

> > > Pratyantar dashas and sookshama dasas and antars and all the gochars

> > > (transits) have come and gone but NO EFFECT

> > >

> > > 2. U said "I wanted to contribute to Jup antar some STRAY Good

> > > incidents" - well I do not know if u watch hindi movies but movies

> like

> > > Shahenshah, Angeepath, BLACK & BAGBAN (last one -in the light that

> it

> > > got him back on the charts) , two of this come under CAREER BEST &

> are

> > > not STRAY incidents where the MARAKA suddenly decides not to act so.

> > >

> > > Remarks:

> > > Post Mortem of Jup antar of Amitabh in Sat & Mer Dasa

> > >

> > > v Amitabhs Sat/Jup

> > >

> > > SAVANA SYSTEM

> > > According to Savana system of 360 days Sat/Jup - 30th aug 1987 to

> 27th

> > > Feb 1990 -- is running & IT SHOULD BE BAD

> > >

> > > 1. Agneepath was released on Feb 16th 1990 (still in Savana period

> of

> > > Jup antar) http://www.indiafm.com/movies/cast/5383/index.html

> > > <http://www.indiafm.com/movies/cast/5383/index.html>

> > >

> > > 2. Shahenshah was released on Feb 12th 1988 (still in Savana period

> of

> > > Jup antar)

> > >

> > > http://www.indiafm.com/movies/cast/5207/index.html

> > > <http://www.indiafm.com/movies/cast/5207/index.html>

> > >

> > > Surely even if we follow Savana year 360 days and Jup as MARAKA --

> > > any bollywood actor would give an arm & his life to have such a

> Maraka

> > > which gives him 2 GREAT HITS movies, the movie Agneepath is a Legend

> and

> > > the character of Vijay Dinanath Chauhan & Don has never been

> portrayed

> > > like that by any actor. Every actor would desire such a Maraka

> period.

> > > If I remember well he won his 1st national award for this inspite of

> > > being in the movie industry for more than 15 yrs & delivering non

> stop

> > > hits (writing for memory)

> > >

> > > Vim Dasa of 365 Days

> > > 1. If we follow the 365 days then Sat/Jup is from 35th Apr 1988 to

> 6th

> > > Nov 1990 & BOTH THE HIT MOVIES WERE RELEASED IN THIS PERIOD

> > >

> > > v Amitabhs Mer/Jup --

> > >

> > > SAVANA SYSTEM

> > >

> > > 10th Jan 2002 to 5th Apr 2004 -- Savana system

> > >

> > > HIT MOVIES within this period

> > >

> > > 1) Baghban (release year:2003)

> > >

> > > Vim Dasa of 365 Days

> > > v Mer/Jup -- 21st Nov 2002 to 26th Feb 2005 -- 365days Vim

> > > Dasa

> > >

> > > 1) Baghban (release year:2003)

> > >

> > > 2) BLACK -- one of the most coveted films for him (Release date

> > > --4th Feb 2005 --see link below) as we know Black was slated for

> > > the OSCARS but industry politics took over.

> > >

> > > http://www.indiafm.com/movies/cast/7207/index.html

> > >

> > > (in one of my previous mails I had taken Bunty aur babli for 2005,

> which

> > > is true but the release date is 27th May 2005 so it doesn't come

> > > under the preview of our antar -- my apologies since I went general

> > > on the year and memory)

> > >

> > > Conclusion

> > >

> > > 1. It is clearly shown by both Savana & 365 days system that

> his

> > > JUP antar (being a MARAKA) also gave him Hits and Fabulous Hits. (as

> > > there is a saying in the industry, one `Lagaan' is Enough to

> > > Wipe out the entire Bad Phase -- aka Ashutosh Gowariker)

> > >

> > > 2. There are and can be many reasons as to why Jup antar also

> gave

> > > him fantastic results & can not be judged a Maraka since 2 of his

> Top

> > > 5-10 movies are in this Period. same way there are many reasons why

> this

> > > Jup antar gave him bad results also

> > >

> > > 3. 365 days vimshottari dasa system vs Sayana system shows a

> marked

> > > difference

> > >

> > > 4. KN Rao's famous prediction during the Coolie Accident might

> > > have been based on 365 days as he has used the dasha pattern

> minutely in

> > > his analysis in his book Ups and Downs in Career

> > >

> > > SJ

> > >

> > > > As to Agnipath, it appears to be released in Feb. 1990 film when

> he

> > > was

> > > > running Mer-Venus period and I do not understand its linkage to

> > > Jupiter

> > > > antar. Of course, I do not have the encyclopedic knowledge that

> you

> > > possess.

> > > >

> > > > I would appreciate the hits that he had in Jupiter antardasha

> using

> > > 360

> > > > Savana days year, that you refer to.

> > > >

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > suniljohn_2002 wrote:

> > > > > Om Datta Guru

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Chandrashehkarji,

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. I have shown by factual data that Jup antar is giving MIXED

> > > results

> > > > > extreme good and extreme bad . U used the word " Through Out",

> so

> > > how

> > > > > come in Jup antar he also had Huge Hits. Think about this.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. Even if we follow Savana days 360, still Jup antar has given

> him

> > > hit

> > > > > Movies ALSO.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. In both the antars of Jup in Sat and Mer mahadasa, even by

> Savana

> > > > > years system he has had some phenomenal hits.

> > > > >

> > > > > Think about it

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards

> > > > > SJ

> > > > >

> > > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Sunil,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If Jupiter not giving bad results through out its dasha means

> he

> > > is

> > > > > not

> > > > > > a Maraka, then how does it giving many flops makes him good

> for

> > > > > > Amitabha? Think about this.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The reason you get different date is that perhaps KNR follows

> > > 365.2425

> > > > > > day year for Vimshottari dasha calculations. I use 360 Savana

> days

> > > for

> > > > > > Vimshottari dasha as I have said many a times on almost all

> the

> > > lists

> > > > > > that I write on.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Take care,

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > suniljohn_2002 wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Datta Guru

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekharji,

> > > > > > > Sorry for the delayed response, schedule has been erratic.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > U wrote:

> > > > > > > > I think you have not read all the mails I sent carefully.

> I

> > > said

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > for Vimshottari dasha implications Jupiter is a maraka and

> > > then

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > gave

> > > > > > > > the extract of what KNR said.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > SJ: I have read all this very carefully. Since you said

> > > according to

> > > > > > > Parasari rules (of vimshottari dasa) Jup is maraca for aq

> lagna,

> > > I

> > > > > > > showed that it has still ALSO given GOOD results & I didn't

> > > > > immediately

> > > > > > > give KNRs article, infact for quite some time I didn't even

> know

> > > > > such an

> > > > > > > article of his existed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I first mentioned his Sat/Jup & showed how Agneepath & one

> more

> > > > > movie

> > > > > > > did well (writing from memory now) BUT in a later email I

> also

> > > > > mentioned

> > > > > > > that he had flops in that same period & the same I showed

> that

> > > in

> > > > > > > Mer/Jup he had hits and flops too showing MIXED results but

> > > > > definitely

> > > > > > > not a ZERO period or bad period or maraca period. In my

> mails to

> > > > > Bharat

> > > > > > > or Satya or both it clearly shows that Finally & I did

> mention

> > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > 2nd or 3rd mail to Bharat or Satya that there were flops

> also in

> > > > > Sat/Jup

> > > > > > > period which no one mentioned.

> > > > > > > U wrote: I also said that Jupiter in 6th did not give

> good

> > > > > results of

> > > > > > > the 6th bhava. Please read what I have said, in earlier

> mails. I

> > > > > trust

> > > > > > > this will clarify the matter. SJ: This is the mail of urs

> > > > > > > /message/10671

> > > > > > > <../../../../../../message/10671> I reproduce below Dear

> > > Bharat, If

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > may add. The chart of Amitabha that I have shows Aquarius

> Lagna.

> > > > > Jupiter

> > > > > > > is the 2nd and the 11 th lord. To the best of my knowledge,

> 2nd

> > > and

> > > > > 7th

> > > > > > > lords are primary Maraka and so is the 11th lord on a lower

> > > level.

> > > > > > > Parashara clearly states that he is a Maraka Ch.34 shloka 41

> and

> > > 42.

> > > > > > > SJ: We have clearly seen that this definition of Maraca has

> > > still

> > > > > given

> > > > > > > him rise in life and if one may say phenomenal and not just

> > > > > mediocre.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I would not like to question your knowledge about film

> > > personalities

> > > > > but

> > > > > > > I get his Saturn Jupiter period as 30th Aug 1987 to 27th

> Feb.

> > > 1990.

> > > > > > > SJ: 1) I am following Shri KNRao's data and I get Sat/Jup

> from

> > > 25th

> > > > > > > Apr 88 to 6th Nov 1990 which differs by quite some months

> from

> > > what

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > wrote above I do not possess dates of his movie & refer to

> > > > > > > http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000821/

> > > > > > > <http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000821/> I do not possess the

> real

> > > > > dates

> > > > > > > of release of his movies and in Sat/Jup I could be wrong on

> > > > > Agneepath &

> > > > > > > Shahenshah but surely there is no mistake in Mer/Jup -- the

> same

> > > > > > > maraca period. U may draw ur own conclusions. SJ

> > > > > > > P.S: Bharat, did I miss post on your reply on Blind charts

> (I

> > > don't

> > > > > read

> > > > > > > all mails since I do not to individual mails)

> > > > > > > or is it that you have decided to let that go. I took

> pains

> > > to

> > > > > find

> > > > > > > out some biographical facts about Amitabha and here is what

> is

> > > said

> > > > > > > about that period. "His return in 1987 was lukewarm as the

> > > Hindi

> > > > > film

> > > > > > > industry had moved on and newer, younger heroes essayed the

> part

> > > of

> > > > > > > Angry Young Man with more conviction. Bachchan seemed to

> have

> > > lost

> > > > > his

> > > > > > > heart in making films as his later roles did not show the

> > > flicker of

> > > > > > > passion that had marked earlier efforts in the 1970s. In

> 1989,

> > > for

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > first time since 1976, three of his films were flops i.e.

> they

> > > could

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > recover their money (in the Hindi film industry a flop is a

> film

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > does not recover a distributor's price, not the producer's

> > > cost). A

> > > > > > > series of lackluster films in the 1990s pointed to a long

> > > overdue

> > > > > exit,

> > > > > > > common to many other stars. A seemingly well-thought out

> venture

> > > to

> > > > > > > start a production company ABCL landed him in immense debts.

> "

> > > You

> > > > > may

> > > > > > > draw your own conclusions. Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > , Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > chandrashekhar46@ wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Bharat,

> > > > > > > > If I may add. The chart of Amitabha that I have shows

> Aquarius

> > > > > Lagna.

> > > > > > > > Jupiter is the 2nd and the 11 th lord. To the best of my

> > > > > knowledge,

> > > > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > > and 7th lords are primary Maraka and so is the 11th lord

> on a

> > > > > lower

> > > > > > > > level. Parashara clearly states that he is a Maraka Ch.34

> > > shloka

> > > > > 41

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > 42. I do not understand where is the confusion in Sunil's

> > > mind. If

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > > information is correct his Jupiter Dasha was over by 1971

> and

> > > he

> > > > > was

> > > > > > > > not a great name during that period. He gained fame in

> Saturn

> > > > > Dasha.

> > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Bharat Hindu Astrology wrote:

> > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sunil

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > My notes are in Blue

> > > > > > > > > "Sri" is the true nature and cannot aggravate the ego,

> > > however

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > may

> > > > > > > > > try.

> > > > > > > > > Nonetheless, I shall call you as per your wishes.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Chandrashekharji wrote: Jupiter being Maraka and 11th

> lord

> > > would

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > > > > good results according to principles of

> Vimshottari

> > > dasha

> > > > > > > > > applications

> > > > > > > > > SJ:I then wrote out my attempt to see how Jup has given

> him

> > > Good

> > > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > > also though Chandrashekharji's mail classified it as

> Maraka,

> > > so

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > was

> > > > > > > > > using

> > > > > > > > > the same Vimshottari Dasa to show that his Jup antar in

> Sat

> > > Maha

> > > > > > > gave him

> > > > > > > > > phenomenal hits too and was not a complete maraca &

> basic

> > > rules

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > Vimshottari might not have worked, also Jup is 3rd from

> > > Mahadasa

> > > > > so

> > > > > > > some

> > > > > > > > > might say a not good period. Here the discussion went

> > > tangential

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha Yoga

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Bharat: I have typed notes of Sri N. N. Krishna Rau on

> > > Mahadasha

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > Bhukti

> > > > > > > > > Phala as per Dravida Sastra, Kerala Jyotish Sastra,

> > > Ashtavarga

> > > > > > > Bindus,

> > > > > > > > > Uthmamasa, and Parijatamsa. Under Shani mahadasha, if

> > > Jupiter is

> > > > > 3rd

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > Mahadasha lord, then he says:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Auspicious functions like marriages at home; well being

> of

> > > wife

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > children; birth of children; prosperity to

> master/employer;

> > > gain

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > money

> > > > > > > > > due to grace of king; and goes on to mention other

> benefic

> > > > > results.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Besides I have seen, atleast in the little number of

> charts

> > > that

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > studied, that whenever a Gajakesari Yoga is formed with

> > > Jupiter

> > > > > in a

> > > > > > > > > dushtana, then it protects the native from the problems

> > > arising

> > > > > out

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > dusthana. This too I read somewhere and now I can't

> place

> > > who

> > > > > said

> > > > > > > it.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > As far as maraka is concerned, I have already given my

> views

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > Ketu

> > > > > > > > > is a

> > > > > > > > > first rate maraka for him.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I think you mentioned Jup Mahadasa, I think he might

> have

> > > passed

> > > > > Jup

> > > > > > > > > Mahadasa before his film career started or maybe u did a

> > > typo by

> > > > > > > mistake.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It was a typo, what I intended to say was in mahadasha

> and

> > > > > > > anterdasha,

> > > > > > > > > Jupiter would generally protect and do good. Moreover,

> his

> > > movie

> > > > > > > career

> > > > > > > > > started in Jupiter-Rahu but was awared for his

> supportive

> > > role

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > soon as

> > > > > > > > > Saturn-Saturn started. But remember, he was an

> accomplished

> > > > > Theatre

> > > > > > > Artist

> > > > > > > > > before the movie career. However, Jupiter also got him

> > > rejected

> > > > > at

> > > > > > > All

> > > > > > > > > India

> > > > > > > > > Radio and some struggle before he started gaining

> ground. If

> > > we

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > dates, perhaps we can see the anterdasha and transits

> that

> > > might

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > led to

> > > > > > > > > the same.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > As far as Mahapurusha Yoga Bhanga is concerned. Sri R.

> G.

> > > Rao

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > given some

> > > > > > > > > nadi rules in "Core of Nadi Astrology". If you want I

> can

> > > state

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > same for

> > > > > > > > > discussion in this group.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thank you for the 3 charts and I shall study them and

> give

> > > my

> > > > > views.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > > > > > > Bharat

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > On 5/12/06, Sunil John suniljohn_2002@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Bharat,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Namaste

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Request: Kindly call me only Sunil no Sri pls it can

> > > aggravate

> > > > > ego

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > self.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Pls find my reply below as SJ

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Sunil

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Why is there an assumption that only a Mahapurusha

> Yoga

> > > will

> > > > > give

> > > > > > > Sri

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Amitabh Bachchan the success he has?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > SJ: I don't think so there is an assumption that ONLY

> a

> > > > > > > mahrapurusha

> > > > > > > > > yoga

> > > > > > > > > > in not only Amitabh or but anybodys chart is the sole

> > > criteria

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > success,

> > > > > > > > > > I am sure a 1 to 6 month old student of astrology can

> > > vouch

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > that.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In the last mail I was not writing on Mahapurusha Yoga

> as

> > > I

> > > > > stated

> > > > > > > > > clearly

> > > > > > > > > > (I feel) and I was commenting on Jup giving good

> results

> > > Also.

> > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > copy below

> > > > > > > > > > what I had specified in previous mail

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekharji wrote: Jupiter being Maraka and 11th

> lord

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > not > >

> > > > > > > > > > give

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > good results according to principles of

> Vimshottari

> > > > > dasha

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > applications

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > SJ: Then I wrote

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Presumption: From above that Jup is not giving good

> > > results

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > SJ:I then wrote out my attempt to see how Jup has

> given

> > > him

> > > > > Good

> > > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > > > also though Chandrashekharji's mail classified it as

> > > Maraka,

> > > > > so I

> > > > > > > > > was using

> > > > > > > > > > the same Vimshottari Dasa to show that his Jup antar

> in

> > > Sat

> > > > > Maha

> > > > > > > > > gave him

> > > > > > > > > > phenomenal hits too and was not a complete maraca &

> basic

> > > > > rules of

> > > > > > > > > > Vimshottari might not have worked, also Jup is 3rd

> from

> > > > > Mahadasa

> > > > > > > so some

> > > > > > > > > > might say a not good period. Here the discussion went

> > > > > tangential

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha Yoga

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I think you mentioned Jup Mahadasa, I think he might

> have

> > > > > passed

> > > > > > > Jup

> > > > > > > > > > Mahadasa before his film career started or maybe u did

> a

> > > typo

> > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > mistake.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > U wrote: I hope this are not my mental rumblings and

> > > actually

> > > > > help

> > > > > > > > > in your

> > > > > > > > > > understanding.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Bharat, thanks for ur good attempt but honestly I

> > > have

> > > > > been

> > > > > > > > > unable to

> > > > > > > > > > understand the exceptions rules of Mahapurusha yoga

> since

> > > what

> > > > > > > rules

> > > > > > > > > were

> > > > > > > > > > given in this list when applied didn't stand the test

> of

> > > > > > > consistency,

> > > > > > > > > > ofcourse at the end of the day we all can say easily

> that

> > > the

> > > > > yoga

> > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > > manifested or not manifested to prove a theory.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I could have replied to Chandrashekharji when he

> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Amritanandamayi ma.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Shasha yoga has manifested. But one also has to

> understand

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > the time

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > might not have been recorded correctly, looking at the

> > > birth

> > > > > > > details.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The chart is drawn for 9.09 hr.s.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > SJ: I refused to do so since if we assume that what he

> > > wrote

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > birth time might not have been recorded properly,

> still

> > > even

> > > > > if we

> > > > > > > > > change

> > > > > > > > > > the birth time by 2 hrs still the degs of Sat do not

> > > change

> > > > > much

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > it is

> > > > > > > > > > still in INFANT stage,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The biggest impediment as we know is to pin down if a

> > > > > Mahapurusha

> > > > > > > > > Yoga has

> > > > > > > > > > worked or not since very easily we can say that even

> > > though

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > person is

> > > > > > > > > > successful, famous, has achieved a lot, still we can

> prove

> > > it

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > achieved by

> > > > > > > > > > other yogas.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I think we have taken one approach of listing down the

> > > rules

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > M.P yoga

> > > > > > > > > > bhangas & seen them not properly working on 10 charts,

> but

> > > we

> > > > > > > faced

> > > > > > > > > > impediment on accepting in certain cases (even when

> taken

> > > from

> > > > > > > > > lagna) if the

> > > > > > > > > > Mahapurusha yoga has worked or not example another

> case of

> > > > > Galileo

> > > > > > > > > where the

> > > > > > > > > > rules are not working. If we do Honest astrology , the

> > > word

> > > > > > > > > popularized by

> > > > > > > > > > KNR then the rules are not working and we should as

> honest

> > > > > > > students

> > > > > > > > > accept

> > > > > > > > > > it and try to search more. But since that has not

> happened

> > > > > maybe

> > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > can take

> > > > > > > > > > some blind charts and try to predict if the

> Mahapurusha

> > > yoga

> > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > worked by

> > > > > > > > > > predicting Career, Success etc.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Pls realize that my intention is to get to the bottom

> of a

> > > > > > > workable

> > > > > > > > > > approach and truth of the technique unlike others who

> only

> > > > > > > criticize

> > > > > > > > > or pass

> > > > > > > > > > snide remarks or try to be "Politically correct" as I

> have

> > > > > > > realized

> > > > > > > > > all the

> > > > > > > > > > above is pure waste of time and not being honest

> towards

> > > our

> > > > > > > approach to

> > > > > > > > > > astrology..

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Also it is possible by knowing the chart before hand

> we

> > > get

> > > > > > > > > influenced to

> > > > > > > > > > beleive if the yoga is working or not, a blind chart

> might

> > > be

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > a better approach for us all.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I paste below for you & also others 3 charts

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1) Natal Chart 1: Date: July 6, 1942, Time:

> > > > > > > 9:30:00,

> > > > > > > > > > Time Zone: 5:04:00 (East of GMT), Place:

> 76 E

> > > 02'

> > > > > 00",

> > > > > > > > > 11 N 31'

> > > > > > > > > > 00", Place: vayithiri

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 2) Female: Date: December 28, 1972, Time:

> > > > > > > 5:02:00

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Place: 71 E 14' 00", 21 N 37' 00"

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Amreli, India

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Would love to hear someone predict her profession & if

> at

> > > all

> > > > > how

> > > > > > > > > much she

> > > > > > > > > > earns. The reasoning is what I am looking for.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 3) Date: October 6, 1942, Time:

> 7:30:00,

> > > > > Time

> > > > > > > Zone:

> > > > > > > > > > 6:00:00 (West of GMT)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Place: 105 W 50' 24", 46 N 24' 30", Miles

> City,

> > > > > > > Montana, USA

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Re Time of birth: He told me that the hospital records

> is

> > > not

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > possession but his mother told him that the time was

> > > fairly

> > > > > > > accurate.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 4) Natal Chart,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Date: December 2, 1973

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Time: 21:40:00

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Place: 72 E 55' 00", 19 N 05' 00"

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 5) Natal Chart, Date: August 7, 1963

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Time: 21:14:00

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Place: 83 E 58' 00", 21 N 27' 00"

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 6) Date: September 10, 1943

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Time: 4:19:00

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Time Zone: 5:00:00 (West of GMT)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Place: 87 W 54' 23", 43 N 02' 20"

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Altitude: 0.00 meters

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The time is confirmed by the native

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 7) Date: April 20, 1972

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Time: 10:37:00

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Place: 72 E 55' 00", 19 N 05' 00"

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Time is confirmed by native

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sunil

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > a)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I was thinking about your question and

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > following could be the reasons for his success in

> > > Jupiter's

> > > > > > > mahadasha:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 1. Jupiter is Rashi Vargottama.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 2. As 2nd and 5th lord from the 10th, it sustains his

> > > career

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > creativity.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 3. Exalted in 9th from the 10th house, it gives him

> > > success.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 4. Jupiter is in own navamsha and hence the guna isn't

> > > spoilt.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You had also asked about his angry man image: If you

> see

> > > the

> > > > > Mars

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > placed

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > in Moon's nakshatra. His acting abilities and

> consistency

> > > is

> > > > > > > unmatched -

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Check Venus in nakshatra of Moon connecting it to the

> 9th

> > > > > house.

> > > > > > > Under

> > > > > > > > > > some

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > nadi principles, this means Venus is strong as if in

> own

> > > > > house.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Another thing about his horoscope is Rahu, though in

> the

> > > 7th

> > > > > house

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > connected to the lagna through nakshatra linkage of

> Ketu.

> > > It

> > > > > gives

> > > > > > > him

> > > > > > > > > > mass

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > following or "attraction". Infact, Ketu becomes the

> > > markesh

> > > > > given

> > > > > > > > > the same

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > logic. Sun and Moon are traditionally not considered

> as

> > > first

> > > > > rate

> > > > > > > > > markesh

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > but in his case Sun is in nakshatra of Mars and both

> Sun

> > > and

> > > > > Mars

> > > > > > > are in

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 8th house. This makes Sun have a strong say in matters

> of

> > > Sri

> > > > > > > Amitabh's

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > longevity.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Whenever Sun, Ketu dashas or antardashas run, he can

> have

> > > > > > > accidents or

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > problems or life threatening situations.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In my view, given the above Mahapurusha Yogas need not

> be

> > > > > there in

> > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > chart

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > and I agree to Sri Chandrashekharji's view regarding

> the

> > > same.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I hope this are not my mental rumblings and actually

> help

> > > in

> > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > understanding.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Bharat

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your

> phone.

> > > > > > > > > >

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