Guest guest Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Dear Pradeep, I humbly accept my failure in this particular case. I went by Jaimini's "3 parts rule" for determining the longevity. With the Gemini lagna chart given by Pt Sanjay Rath, I get long life (72-108 years) with my understanding of the rule of 3 parts. Though he is running maraka dasas as per the natal chart as well as the annual chart, I went by the "long life" expectation and thought that he would survive the maraka dasas in annual chart until June 26. I humbly accept my failure. > One must never take any astro predictions seriously. > I for one would from now on never seek to consult an astrologer. I think we need to improve, but I am not as pessimistic. In my Sunday classes at Boston, we usually take up one chart in each class and spend a little more than an hour rectifying the birthtime based on known events and then make predictions in the next hour. There have been so many occasions when students confirmed a few months later that the prediction of the class came perfectly true for them, their relatives and friends. All of us make many correct predictions and some wrong ones too. Especially in celebrity charts, we sometimes don't spend enough time and still overenthusiastically (and irresponsibly) make predictions with data that may not be accurate or fully rectified. Such is the power of maya that celebrity charts are sometimes simply irresistible. Of course, in some cases, failure is not due to a wrong time, but due to over-reliance on a fallible technique. > Better to trust in God ... Chant His name!! I wouldn't contest that one. Chanting His name (or Her name) is anyday better than doing astrology. But then, both can be done. May the light of Brahman shine within, Narasimha ------------------------------- Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------------- , "Pradeep" <psd1955 wrote: > > The failure to predict Pramod Mahajan's death is a very great blow to > Indian Astrology. One must never take any astro predictions seriously. > I for one would from now on never seek to consult an astrologer. > > Astrology no doubt is (was?) a great science ... but alas astrologers > are ....?????!!!!!! > > Better to trust in God ... Chant His name!! > > Regards > Pradeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Dear members It is not the prediction or predictive abilities; but the correctness of the chart (birth details), which is critical. I remember having met an astrologer (local one) few years back,(who read Mr Pramod Mahajan's chart) - with his family astrologer (who infact called him to Mumbai to meet Pramod Mahajan) - and that time - his lagna was dhanu. He does not have his chart, but did visit Pramod Mahajan couple of times and read his original chart (made at the time of his birth). I did contact him again when he was shot with the mithuna lagna (but he did tell me that, his lagna is dhanu). We really do not know, what might have transpired between his brother and him; but for sure, it was not the case of jealousy only (as media has projected). regards / Prafulla vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr wrote: > > Dear Pradeep, > > I humbly accept my failure in this particular case. I went by Jaimini's "3 parts rule" for determining the longevity. With the Gemini lagna chart given by Pt Sanjay Rath, I get long life (72-108 years) with my understanding of the rule of 3 parts. Though he is running maraka dasas as per the natal chart as well as the annual chart, I went by the "long life" expectation and thought that he would survive the maraka dasas in annual chart until June 26. I humbly accept my failure. > > > One must never take any astro predictions seriously. > > I for one would from now on never seek to consult an astrologer. > > I think we need to improve, but I am not as pessimistic. In my Sunday classes at Boston, we usually take up one chart in each class and spend a little more than an hour rectifying the birthtime based on known events and then make predictions in the next hour. There have been so many occasions when students confirmed a few months later that the prediction of the class came perfectly true for them, their relatives and friends. > > All of us make many correct predictions and some wrong ones too. Especially in celebrity charts, we sometimes don't spend enough time and still overenthusiastically (and irresponsibly) make predictions with data that may not be accurate or fully rectified. Such is the power of maya that celebrity charts are sometimes simply irresistible. Of course, in some cases, failure is not due to a wrong time, but due to over-reliance on a fallible technique. > > > Better to trust in God ... Chant His name!! > > I wouldn't contest that one. Chanting His name (or Her name) is anyday better than doing astrology. But then, both can be done. > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > , "Pradeep" <psd1955@> wrote: > > > > The failure to predict Pramod Mahajan's death is a very great blow to > > Indian Astrology. One must never take any astro predictions seriously. > > I for one would from now on never seek to consult an astrologer. > > > > Astrology no doubt is (was?) a great science ... but alas astrologers > > are ....?????!!!!!! > > > > Better to trust in God ... Chant His name!! > > > > Regards > > Pradeep > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Dear Narasimhaji, Your humility is only impaled simply and transparently by your consistent greatness and virtues as an astrologer and in just being the wonderful human being that you are and that I wish more of us *jyotishis* could emulate! Ranjan vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr wrote: > > Dear Pradeep, > > I humbly accept my failure in this particular case. I went by Jaimini's "3 parts rule" for determining the longevity. With the Gemini lagna chart given by Pt Sanjay Rath, I get long life (72-108 years) with my understanding of the rule of 3 parts. Though he is running maraka dasas as per the natal chart as well as the annual chart, I went by the "long life" expectation and thought that he would survive the maraka dasas in annual chart until June 26. I humbly accept my failure. > > > One must never take any astro predictions seriously. > > I for one would from now on never seek to consult an astrologer. > > I think we need to improve, but I am not as pessimistic. In my Sunday classes at Boston, we usually take up one chart in each class and spend a little more than an hour rectifying the birthtime based on known events and then make predictions in the next hour. There have been so many occasions when students confirmed a few months later that the prediction of the class came perfectly true for them, their relatives and friends. > > All of us make many correct predictions and some wrong ones too. Especially in celebrity charts, we sometimes don't spend enough time and still overenthusiastically (and irresponsibly) make predictions with data that may not be accurate or fully rectified. Such is the power of maya that celebrity charts are sometimes simply irresistible. Of course, in some cases, failure is not due to a wrong time, but due to over-reliance on a fallible technique. > > > Better to trust in God ... Chant His name!! > > I wouldn't contest that one. Chanting His name (or Her name) is anyday better than doing astrology. But then, both can be done. > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > , "Pradeep" <psd1955@> wrote: > > > > The failure to predict Pramod Mahajan's death is a very great blow to > > Indian Astrology. One must never take any astro predictions seriously. > > I for one would from now on never seek to consult an astrologer. > > > > Astrology no doubt is (was?) a great science ... but alas astrologers > > are ....?????!!!!!! > > > > Better to trust in God ... Chant His name!! > > > > Regards > > Pradeep > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 Dear Pradeep, Namaskar, You should not blame any astrologer in connection with failure in prediction. When astrologers like PVR Narsimha Ji, Sanjay Ji, Visti ji, KN Rao Ji and so many others . They should always be respected due to their virtues in astrological field. If sometime prediction fails, it does not mean they are incorrect or any question mark. First lesson is authenticity of birth data. If birth details are incorrect, then nothing can be done. It may be rectified with the help of past events. When I got the birth details of Pramod Mahajan from this group given by our Sanjay Guruji, I immediately casted the chart using Krushnas Ayamnsa and found most of the events are matching with the chart. I applied KAS method for his survival but I was not finding his survival as against other astrologers using same birth chart and prasna chart what not. I posted my analysis in groups of . Though I am not confident as you are all but I have faith and found accuracy in krushnas astakvarga system, I applied the method and result is before you. You can visit the message link in group and read the message no 10931 dated 23 Apr 2006. You make your own conclusion. Thanks. Ramesh Mishra crystal pages <rrgb wrote: Dear Narasimhaji, Your humility is only impaled simply and transparently by your consistent greatness and virtues as an astrologer and in just being the wonderful human being that you are and that I wish more of us *jyotishis* could emulate! Ranjan vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr wrote: > > Dear Pradeep, > > I humbly accept my failure in this particular case. I went by Jaimini's "3 parts rule" for determining the longevity. With the Gemini lagna chart given by Pt Sanjay Rath, I get long life (72-108 years) with my understanding of the rule of 3 parts. Though he is running maraka dasas as per the natal chart as well as the annual chart, I went by the "long life" expectation and thought that he would survive the maraka dasas in annual chart until June 26. I humbly accept my failure. > > > One must never take any astro predictions seriously. > > I for one would from now on never seek to consult an astrologer. > > I think we need to improve, but I am not as pessimistic. In my Sunday classes at Boston, we usually take up one chart in each class and spend a little more than an hour rectifying the birthtime based on known events and then make predictions in the next hour. There have been so many occasions when students confirmed a few months later that the prediction of the class came perfectly true for them, their relatives and friends. > > All of us make many correct predictions and some wrong ones too. Especially in celebrity charts, we sometimes don't spend enough time and still overenthusiastically (and irresponsibly) make predictions with data that may not be accurate or fully rectified. Such is the power of maya that celebrity charts are sometimes simply irresistible. Of course, in some cases, failure is not due to a wrong time, but due to over-reliance on a fallible technique. > > > Better to trust in God ... Chant His name!! > > I wouldn't contest that one. Chanting His name (or Her name) is anyday better than doing astrology. But then, both can be done. > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > , "Pradeep" <psd1955@> wrote: > > > > The failure to predict Pramod Mahajan's death is a very great blow to > > Indian Astrology. One must never take any astro predictions seriously. > > I for one would from now on never seek to consult an astrologer. > > > > Astrology no doubt is (was?) a great science ... but alas astrologers > > are ....?????!!!!!! > > > > Better to trust in God ... Chant His name!! > > > > Regards > > Pradeep > > > > Astrology chart Vedic astrology Astrology horoscope Astrology software Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web. vedic astrology India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new. Click here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 vedic astrology, "crystal pages" <rrgb wrote: > > Dear Narasimhaji, > > Your humility is only impaled simply and transparently by your > consistent greatness and virtues as an astrologer I think you impaled him with that sentence, RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Dear God no! Not him! Just meant that his great qualities (knowledge, research mindedness and brilliance) runs a stake through (loosely speaking - overshadows) PVR's simple and straightforward humility, rendering the latter not necessary. Particularly in this (and similar instances concerning celebrity charts) the uncertain birthdata and not any astrologer's interpretations are to be blamed. Whether proven right or wrong, it is the courage of all those who posted that must be rejoiced and encouraged. RR vedic astrology, "vernalagnia" <vernalagnia wrote: > > vedic astrology, "crystal pages" <rrgb@> wrote: > > > > Dear Narasimhaji, > > > > Your humility is only impaled simply and transparently by your > > consistent greatness and virtues as an astrologer > > > I think you impaled him with that sentence, RR > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Dear Manoj ji, I agree and that is why I used the adjective "irresponsible". However, it must be added that "erudite astrologers" have verified and confirmed different lagnas in this case. Pt Sanjay Rath thinks that Gemini lagna chart is correct and Sri KN Rao apparently thinks that Taurus lagna chart is correct. Both seemingly said that the time is critical for him, using two different charts. Though both made the correct call, obviously one of them is (or possibly both of them are) using a wrong chart. And, on vedic astrology , a gentleman claimed that he personally met an astrologer who was consulted by Pramod Mahajan. Apparently, the latter read Pramod Mahajan's chart that was prepared at birth. According to him, Mahajan has Sagittarius lagna! After Mahajan's passing away, this gentleman contacted that astrologer again and confirmed that lagna is Sg. Though people may not like hearing this, I will make one honest observation here. If a reasonably accurate chart is given, i.e. birthtime is in the ball-park of the correct time and the error is 10 min or less, then we seem to do a good job of rectifying the chart and making correct predictions. Even students who have been leaning for a year or two seem to be able to come to a consensus on the correct birthtime and make good predictions. I see it practically in my own Sunday classes near Boston. However, if two or three totally different charts are given, we seem to be more susceptible to making bad calls. Especially, if the correct chart is hidden and 2 or 3 wrong charts are circulated, we do not seem to be able to always identify that none of the circulated charts is correct and end up picking up one of the charts. In some mathematical optimization problems, solution is possible only if you start close to the "global" optimum. Otherwise, you may end up with a "local" optimum and not reach the global optimum. I wonder if we have such an issue. In any case, I did see in several cases (e.g. Vajpayee, Kerry, Sonia, Mahajan, Karunanidhi) that very good astrologers end up "verifying" and endorsing totally different charts and sometimes all of them are wrong too. On a personal note, I think there was an egoistic reason for my prediction without a lot of ground work. On that day, I spent 15.5 hours meditating with a Vedamantra, starting at sunrise and ending in the night. I was feeling very blissful at the end. Still, I guess I was overcome by moha (delusion) and thought that Pramod Mahajan's survival would be good for the country. Moreover, I thought that my making a positive prediction after such a "long sadhana" would help his case. Obviously, that was quite egoistic and foolish of me. As long as that ego and sense of doership remains, no amount of sadhana is fully useful. The goal of all sadhana is to merge one's consciousness with the supreme consciousness and merge one's will power with the divine will. Until that happens, I guess such stupid thoughts keep coming. In any case, I wanted to make a positive prediction and spent 5 minutes with the chart given by Pt Sanjay Rath and saw that Jaimini's longevity rules show a long life in the chart. Then I was happy and went ahead. It is quite appropriate that a prediction based on subtle egotism came back to teach a lesson or two in egotism. Bottomline is: I did concede that I was irresponsible. But, if you listen to the free mp3 audio of our classes at Boston, you will see that we normally do our astrology very responsibly and systematically. I can only try to improve. May the light of Brahman shine within, Narasimha ------------------------------- Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------------- > Dear PVR ji, > > An erudite astrologer like you should have verified Mithuna lagna horoscope first before attempting to give out a prediction on that. Thats my humble suggestion. > > regards, > > Manoj > > childofdevi <childofdevi wrote: > Dear PVR-ji, > > Even though the prediction did not happen, your humility is very > admirable especially considering how deeply knowledgeable you are. The > light of Brahman has indeed shined through:-). > > With respects and best regards, > -Vijay > > , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > I humbly accept my failure in this particular case. I went by > Jaimini's "3 parts rule" for determining the longevity. With the > Gemini lagna chart given by Pt Sanjay Rath, I get long life (72-108 > years) with my understanding of the rule of 3 parts. Though he is > running maraka dasas as per the natal chart as well as the annual > chart, I went by the "long life" expectation and thought that he would > survive the maraka dasas in annual chart until June 26. I humbly > accept my failure. > > > > > One must never take any astro predictions seriously. > > > I for one would from now on never seek to consult an astrologer. > > > > I think we need to improve, but I am not as pessimistic. In my > Sunday classes at Boston, we usually take up one chart in each class > and spend a little more than an hour rectifying the birthtime based on > known events and then make predictions in the next hour. There have > been so many occasions when students confirmed a few months later that > the prediction of the class came perfectly true for them, their > relatives and friends. > > > > All of us make many correct predictions and some wrong ones too. > Especially in celebrity charts, we sometimes don't spend enough time > and still overenthusiastically (and irresponsibly) make predictions > with data that may not be accurate or fully rectified. Such is the > power of maya that celebrity charts are sometimes simply irresistible. > Of course, in some cases, failure is not due to a wrong time, but due > to over-reliance on a fallible technique. > > > > > Better to trust in God ... Chant His name!! > > > > I wouldn't contest that one. Chanting His name (or Her name) is > anyday better than doing astrology. But then, both can be done. > > > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > > Narasimha > > ------------------------------- > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > ------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Dear Rao, Usually, if you are prejudiced and mentally(though not very consciously) decided to predict something someway, often you will end up justifying your subconscious prejudice. You will find the right combinations, planetary positions and methods, all turning up to pay tribute to your "intuition" and why not, you will end up thinking this is the right reading. This is what has taken place in case of pramod mahajan. But itz not just you who got carried away, but the astrologers en masse. If you read my posts in , i was pointing out all the negative things such as cruel aspects, weak planets etc yet i was pitching in for a positive conclusion. Obviously, that is very foolish indeed. We should really take this as a good lesson in humility and as I said before, hope this experience will make us better astrologers and more importantly, better human beings. Kishorepatnaik vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr wrote: > > Dear Manoj ji, > > I agree and that is why I used the adjective "irresponsible". > > However, it must be added that "erudite astrologers" have verified and confirmed different lagnas in this case. Pt Sanjay Rath thinks that Gemini lagna chart is correct and Sri KN Rao apparently thinks that Taurus lagna chart is correct. Both seemingly said that the time is critical for him, using two different charts. Though both made the correct call, obviously one of them is (or possibly both of them are) using a wrong chart. > > And, on vedic astrology , a gentleman claimed that he personally met an astrologer who was consulted by Pramod Mahajan. Apparently, the latter read Pramod Mahajan's chart that was prepared at birth. According to him, Mahajan has Sagittarius lagna! After Mahajan's passing away, this gentleman contacted that astrologer again and confirmed that lagna is Sg. > > Though people may not like hearing this, I will make one honest observation here. If a reasonably accurate chart is given, i.e. birthtime is in the ball-park of the correct time and the error is 10 min or less, then we seem to do a good job of rectifying the chart and making correct predictions. Even students who have been leaning for a year or two seem to be able to come to a consensus on the correct birthtime and make good predictions. I see it practically in my own Sunday classes near Boston. > > However, if two or three totally different charts are given, we seem to be more susceptible to making bad calls. Especially, if the correct chart is hidden and 2 or 3 wrong charts are circulated, we do not seem to be able to always identify that none of the circulated charts is correct and end up picking up one of the charts. > > In some mathematical optimization problems, solution is possible only if you start close to the "global" optimum. Otherwise, you may end up with a "local" optimum and not reach the global optimum. I wonder if we have such an issue. > > In any case, I did see in several cases (e.g. Vajpayee, Kerry, Sonia, Mahajan, Karunanidhi) that very good astrologers end up "verifying" and endorsing totally different charts and sometimes all of them are wrong too. > > On a personal note, I think there was an egoistic reason for my prediction without a lot of ground work. On that day, I spent 15.5 hours meditating with a Vedamantra, starting at sunrise and ending in the night. I was feeling very blissful at the end. Still, I guess I was overcome by moha (delusion) and thought that Pramod Mahajan's survival would be good for the country. Moreover, I thought that my making a positive prediction after such a "long sadhana" would help his case. Obviously, that was quite egoistic and foolish of me. As long as that ego and sense of doership remains, no amount of sadhana is fully useful. The goal of all sadhana is to merge one's consciousness with the supreme consciousness and merge one's will power with the divine will. Until that happens, I guess such stupid thoughts keep coming. In any case, I wanted to make a positive prediction and spent 5 minutes with the chart given by Pt Sanjay Rath and saw that Jaimini's longevity rules show a long life in the chart. Then I was happy and went ahead. It is quite appropriate that a prediction based on subtle egotism came back to teach a lesson or two in egotism. > > Bottomline is: I did concede that I was irresponsible. But, if you listen to the free mp3 audio of our classes at Boston, you will see that we normally do our astrology very responsibly and systematically. I can only try to improve. > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > > Dear PVR ji, > > > > An erudite astrologer like you should have verified Mithuna lagna horoscope first before attempting to give out a prediction on that. Thats my humble suggestion. > > > > regards, > > > > Manoj > > > > childofdevi <childofdevi@> wrote: > > Dear PVR-ji, > > > > Even though the prediction did not happen, your humility is very > > admirable especially considering how deeply knowledgeable you are. The > > light of Brahman has indeed shined through:-). > > > > With respects and best regards, > > -Vijay > > > > , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > I humbly accept my failure in this particular case. I went by > > Jaimini's "3 parts rule" for determining the longevity. With the > > Gemini lagna chart given by Pt Sanjay Rath, I get long life (72- 108 > > years) with my understanding of the rule of 3 parts. Though he is > > running maraka dasas as per the natal chart as well as the annual > > chart, I went by the "long life" expectation and thought that he would > > survive the maraka dasas in annual chart until June 26. I humbly > > accept my failure. > > > > > > > One must never take any astro predictions seriously. > > > > I for one would from now on never seek to consult an astrologer. > > > > > > I think we need to improve, but I am not as pessimistic. In my > > Sunday classes at Boston, we usually take up one chart in each class > > and spend a little more than an hour rectifying the birthtime based on > > known events and then make predictions in the next hour. There have > > been so many occasions when students confirmed a few months later that > > the prediction of the class came perfectly true for them, their > > relatives and friends. > > > > > > All of us make many correct predictions and some wrong ones too. > > Especially in celebrity charts, we sometimes don't spend enough time > > and still overenthusiastically (and irresponsibly) make predictions > > with data that may not be accurate or fully rectified. Such is the > > power of maya that celebrity charts are sometimes simply irresistible. > > Of course, in some cases, failure is not due to a wrong time, but due > > to over-reliance on a fallible technique. > > > > > > > Better to trust in God ... Chant His name!! > > > > > > I wouldn't contest that one. Chanting His name (or Her name) is > > anyday better than doing astrology. But then, both can be done. > > > > > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------------------------- > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > ------------------------------- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Dear Narasimha ji, You did not act irresponsibly; yet you are humble to mention about your thought process. If the birth chart data is not a valid one, then how could you be responsible or irresponsible for prediction. With the available data, you did put your best and we must recognize your selfless readings. Unfortuntely, many of these politicians do not disclose their birth charts, for reasons best known to them. I do not think, any astrologer can be put to question, for wrong chart data. Today, on sunday - I visited the astrologer again, and requested - if he has some details of Mahajan's chart. But as he stated earlier, he had personal meetings and he never bothered to carry it with him. and even when, I met after Mahajan being shot with the question of his survival, he expressed his inability to predict (as he was not having his chart details). I believe in his statements, as he is quite selfless too in his astrological pursuits, with good credibility. Generally speaking, why his brother shot at him still remains a mystry? but for sure, there is something, which is not simple jealousy or property dispute. and surprisingly, this story has not yet hit the media. regards / Prafulla vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr wrote: > > Dear Manoj ji, > > I agree and that is why I used the adjective "irresponsible". > > However, it must be added that "erudite astrologers" have verified and confirmed different lagnas in this case. Pt Sanjay Rath thinks that Gemini lagna chart is correct and Sri KN Rao apparently thinks that Taurus lagna chart is correct. Both seemingly said that the time is critical for him, using two different charts. Though both made the correct call, obviously one of them is (or possibly both of them are) using a wrong chart. > > And, on vedic astrology , a gentleman claimed that he personally met an astrologer who was consulted by Pramod Mahajan. Apparently, the latter read Pramod Mahajan's chart that was prepared at birth. According to him, Mahajan has Sagittarius lagna! After Mahajan's passing away, this gentleman contacted that astrologer again and confirmed that lagna is Sg. > > Though people may not like hearing this, I will make one honest observation here. If a reasonably accurate chart is given, i.e. birthtime is in the ball-park of the correct time and the error is 10 min or less, then we seem to do a good job of rectifying the chart and making correct predictions. Even students who have been leaning for a year or two seem to be able to come to a consensus on the correct birthtime and make good predictions. I see it practically in my own Sunday classes near Boston. > > However, if two or three totally different charts are given, we seem to be more susceptible to making bad calls. Especially, if the correct chart is hidden and 2 or 3 wrong charts are circulated, we do not seem to be able to always identify that none of the circulated charts is correct and end up picking up one of the charts. > > In some mathematical optimization problems, solution is possible only if you start close to the "global" optimum. Otherwise, you may end up with a "local" optimum and not reach the global optimum. I wonder if we have such an issue. > > In any case, I did see in several cases (e.g. Vajpayee, Kerry, Sonia, Mahajan, Karunanidhi) that very good astrologers end up "verifying" and endorsing totally different charts and sometimes all of them are wrong too. > > On a personal note, I think there was an egoistic reason for my prediction without a lot of ground work. On that day, I spent 15.5 hours meditating with a Vedamantra, starting at sunrise and ending in the night. I was feeling very blissful at the end. Still, I guess I was overcome by moha (delusion) and thought that Pramod Mahajan's survival would be good for the country. Moreover, I thought that my making a positive prediction after such a "long sadhana" would help his case. Obviously, that was quite egoistic and foolish of me. As long as that ego and sense of doership remains, no amount of sadhana is fully useful. The goal of all sadhana is to merge one's consciousness with the supreme consciousness and merge one's will power with the divine will. Until that happens, I guess such stupid thoughts keep coming. In any case, I wanted to make a positive prediction and spent 5 minutes with the chart given by Pt Sanjay Rath and saw that Jaimini's longevity rules show a long life in the chart. Then I was happy and went ahead. It is quite appropriate that a prediction based on subtle egotism came back to teach a lesson or two in egotism. > > Bottomline is: I did concede that I was irresponsible. But, if you listen to the free mp3 audio of our classes at Boston, you will see that we normally do our astrology very responsibly and systematically. I can only try to improve. > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > > Dear PVR ji, > > > > An erudite astrologer like you should have verified Mithuna lagna horoscope first before attempting to give out a prediction on that. Thats my humble suggestion. > > > > regards, > > > > Manoj > > > > childofdevi <childofdevi@> wrote: > > Dear PVR-ji, > > > > Even though the prediction did not happen, your humility is very > > admirable especially considering how deeply knowledgeable you are. The > > light of Brahman has indeed shined through:-). > > > > With respects and best regards, > > -Vijay > > > > , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > I humbly accept my failure in this particular case. I went by > > Jaimini's "3 parts rule" for determining the longevity. With the > > Gemini lagna chart given by Pt Sanjay Rath, I get long life (72- 108 > > years) with my understanding of the rule of 3 parts. Though he is > > running maraka dasas as per the natal chart as well as the annual > > chart, I went by the "long life" expectation and thought that he would > > survive the maraka dasas in annual chart until June 26. I humbly > > accept my failure. > > > > > > > One must never take any astro predictions seriously. > > > > I for one would from now on never seek to consult an astrologer. > > > > > > I think we need to improve, but I am not as pessimistic. In my > > Sunday classes at Boston, we usually take up one chart in each class > > and spend a little more than an hour rectifying the birthtime based on > > known events and then make predictions in the next hour. There have > > been so many occasions when students confirmed a few months later that > > the prediction of the class came perfectly true for them, their > > relatives and friends. > > > > > > All of us make many correct predictions and some wrong ones too. > > Especially in celebrity charts, we sometimes don't spend enough time > > and still overenthusiastically (and irresponsibly) make predictions > > with data that may not be accurate or fully rectified. Such is the > > power of maya that celebrity charts are sometimes simply irresistible. > > Of course, in some cases, failure is not due to a wrong time, but due > > to over-reliance on a fallible technique. > > > > > > > Better to trust in God ... Chant His name!! > > > > > > I wouldn't contest that one. Chanting His name (or Her name) is > > anyday better than doing astrology. But then, both can be done. > > > > > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------------------------- > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > ------------------------------- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Om Gurave Namah ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dear Narasimha, Manoj, Vijay, et al - I have been following this thread for some days on the passing of Promod Mahajan, but have just not had time to to add to the discussion. First let me say that correct prediction in Jyotish must be a shakti of sorts that comes when the astrologer has thoroughly learned all the rules of interpretation and analysis. It takes a lifetime, indeed many lifetimes, to receive such empowerment and in my understanding this comes to the astrologer by the specific blessings of his Ishta-devata and Guru-devatas. So all of us will make mistakes, even with "correct" charts, and in fact if we are honest (and I am speaking for myself here), we will make more mistakes in the early going than correct predictions. What is especially admirable about you, Narasimha, is that you honestly and forthrightly come forward with an admittance of mistake in true humility after erring in a prediction. Many astrologers - especially ones with reputation in the field - will "hide away" after erring in prediction, hoping that everyone just forgets about it. That being said, I wish to add something regarding your statement as follows: >I humbly accept my failure in this particular case. I went by > Jaimini's "3 parts rule" for determining the longevity. With the > Gemini lagna chart given by Pt Sanjay Rath, I get long life (72- > 108 years) with my understanding of the rule of 3 parts. There is an older book by the late B.V. Raman entitled "Studies in Jaimini Astrology," in which there is a section on longevity. I don't know if the book is still in circulation, but in any case, in the sections under Kaksa Vriddhi (increase of the term of longevity) and Kaksa Hrasa (decrease of the term), there are many more elaborate rules which clearly show that - with the Gemini chart which gives Dushta Marana yoga for Mahajan - the long term should have been reduced to middle term. Such rules are as follows: "The term of longeivty is reduced (Kaksa Hrasa) in case any or all of the following apply: 75.117: "If the 8th lord from lagna or the 8th lord from the 7th becomes or joins the AK." In this chart, 8th lord from the 7th is Moon, and he joins AK Mercury. "When the lagna and the 7th are hemmed in between malefics or have malefics disposed in Trines." In this chart (Mahajan's) there are malefics in trine from the lagna, and in trines from the 7th. "If the AK or the 7th from the AK is betwen malefics or has malefics disposed in trines." In this chart, AK Me is hemmed in by malefics. "When the AK is malefic and is debilated or associated with malefics." This condition does not apply. "If Saturn is placed in its debiltation sign or inimical sign, with a malefic influence, conjunct the lord of the lagna or the lord of the Hora lagna, or is himself the lord of the lagna or HL, then Kaksa Hrasa applies." This condition applies verbatim. Saturn is in an inimical sign (Leo), is aspected by Rahu, and is the lord of the Hora lagna. So 4 out of 5 of the above rules for Kaksa Hrasa in Promod Mahajan's chart apply verbatim, according to the great authority B.V. Raman. This gives more than ample reasoning to state that the native has Madhyayu, i.e. 36 to 72 years. So, the point being made is that determination of lifespan can be tricky, yet if we apply all the available rules given by all leading authorities on this subject, then I think we can get a consistent approach that works most of the time. I believe, however, that this practice should be done on charts of already deceased persons, as it is unethical to apply studies of longevity on charts of still-living natives. Best wishes, Robert vedic astrology, "Prafulla Gang" <ripra_solutions wrote: > > Dear Narasimha ji, > > You did not act irresponsibly; yet you are humble to mention about > your thought process. If the birth chart data is not a valid one, > then how could you be responsible or irresponsible for prediction. > With the available data, you did put your best and we must recognize > your selfless readings. Unfortuntely, many of these politicians do > not disclose their birth charts, for reasons best known to them. I do > not think, any astrologer can be put to question, for wrong chart > data. > > > Today, on sunday - I visited the astrologer again, and requested - if > he has some details of Mahajan's chart. But as he stated earlier, he > had personal meetings and he never bothered to carry it with him. and > even when, I met after Mahajan being shot with the question of his > survival, he expressed his inability to predict (as he was not having > his chart details). I believe in his statements, as he is quite > selfless too in his astrological pursuits, with good credibility. > > Generally speaking, why his brother shot at him still remains a > mystry? but for sure, there is something, which is not simple > jealousy or property dispute. and surprisingly, this story has not > yet hit the media. > > regards / Prafulla > > vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" > <pvr@> wrote: > > > > Dear Manoj ji, > > > > I agree and that is why I used the adjective "irresponsible". > > > > However, it must be added that "erudite astrologers" have verified > and confirmed different lagnas in this case. Pt Sanjay Rath thinks > that Gemini lagna chart is correct and Sri KN Rao apparently thinks > that Taurus lagna chart is correct. Both seemingly said that the time > is critical for him, using two different charts. Though both made the > correct call, obviously one of them is (or possibly both of them are) > using a wrong chart. > > > > And, on vedic astrology , a gentleman claimed that he > personally met an astrologer who was consulted by Pramod Mahajan. > Apparently, the latter read Pramod Mahajan's chart that was prepared > at birth. According to him, Mahajan has Sagittarius lagna! After > Mahajan's passing away, this gentleman contacted that astrologer > again and confirmed that lagna is Sg. > > > > Though people may not like hearing this, I will make one honest > observation here. If a reasonably accurate chart is given, i.e. > birthtime is in the ball-park of the correct time and the error is 10 > min or less, then we seem to do a good job of rectifying the chart > and making correct predictions. Even students who have been leaning > for a year or two seem to be able to come to a consensus on the > correct birthtime and make good predictions. I see it practically in > my own Sunday classes near Boston. > > > > However, if two or three totally different charts are given, we > seem to be more susceptible to making bad calls. Especially, if the > correct chart is hidden and 2 or 3 wrong charts are circulated, we do > not seem to be able to always identify that none of the circulated > charts is correct and end up picking up one of the charts. > > > > In some mathematical optimization problems, solution is possible > only if you start close to the "global" optimum. Otherwise, you may > end up with a "local" optimum and not reach the global optimum. I > wonder if we have such an issue. > > > > In any case, I did see in several cases (e.g. Vajpayee, Kerry, > Sonia, Mahajan, Karunanidhi) that very good astrologers end > up "verifying" and endorsing totally different charts and sometimes > all of them are wrong too. > > > > On a personal note, I think there was an egoistic reason for my > prediction without a lot of ground work. On that day, I spent 15.5 > hours meditating with a Vedamantra, starting at sunrise and ending in > the night. I was feeling very blissful at the end. Still, I guess I > was overcome by moha (delusion) and thought that Pramod Mahajan's > survival would be good for the country. Moreover, I thought that my > making a positive prediction after such a "long sadhana" would help > his case. Obviously, that was quite egoistic and foolish of me. As > long as that ego and sense of doership remains, no amount of sadhana > is fully useful. The goal of all sadhana is to merge one's > consciousness with the supreme consciousness and merge one's will > power with the divine will. Until that happens, I guess such stupid > thoughts keep coming. In any case, I wanted to make a positive > prediction and spent 5 minutes with the chart given by Pt Sanjay Rath > and saw that Jaimini's longevity rules show a long life in the chart. > Then I was happy and went ahead. It is quite appropriate that a > prediction based on subtle egotism came back to teach a lesson or two > in egotism. > > > > Bottomline is: I did concede that I was irresponsible. But, if you > listen to the free mp3 audio of our classes at Boston, you will see > that we normally do our astrology very responsibly and > systematically. I can only try to improve. > > > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > > Narasimha > > ------------------------------- > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > ------------------------------- > > > > > Dear PVR ji, > > > > > > An erudite astrologer like you should have verified Mithuna > lagna horoscope first before attempting to give out a prediction on > that. Thats my humble suggestion. > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > Manoj > > > > > > childofdevi <childofdevi@> wrote: > > > Dear PVR-ji, > > > > > > Even though the prediction did not happen, your humility is very > > > admirable especially considering how deeply knowledgeable you > are. The > > > light of Brahman has indeed shined through:-). > > > > > > With respects and best regards, > > > -Vijay > > > > > > , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > > > I humbly accept my failure in this particular case. I went by > > > Jaimini's "3 parts rule" for determining the longevity. With the > > > Gemini lagna chart given by Pt Sanjay Rath, I get long life (72- > 108 > > > years) with my understanding of the rule of 3 parts. Though he is > > > running maraka dasas as per the natal chart as well as the annual > > > chart, I went by the "long life" expectation and thought that he > would > > > survive the maraka dasas in annual chart until June 26. I humbly > > > accept my failure. > > > > > > > > > One must never take any astro predictions seriously. > > > > > I for one would from now on never seek to consult an > astrologer. > > > > > > > > I think we need to improve, but I am not as pessimistic. In my > > > Sunday classes at Boston, we usually take up one chart in each > class > > > and spend a little more than an hour rectifying the birthtime > based on > > > known events and then make predictions in the next hour. There > have > > > been so many occasions when students confirmed a few months later > that > > > the prediction of the class came perfectly true for them, their > > > relatives and friends. > > > > > > > > All of us make many correct predictions and some wrong ones too. > > > Especially in celebrity charts, we sometimes don't spend enough > time > > > and still overenthusiastically (and irresponsibly) make > predictions > > > with data that may not be accurate or fully rectified. Such is the > > > power of maya that celebrity charts are sometimes simply > irresistible. > > > Of course, in some cases, failure is not due to a wrong time, but > due > > > to over-reliance on a fallible technique. > > > > > > > > > Better to trust in God ... Chant His name!! > > > > > > > > I wouldn't contest that one. Chanting His name (or Her name) is > > > anyday better than doing astrology. But then, both can be done. > > > > > > > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > > > > Narasimha > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Dear Group: I would also like to add that I've even seen a chart for Capricorn rising for Mr. Mahajan and a correct prediction was made off it that he would not survive. This makes for at least 4 or 5 "official" charts for this man and each astrologer is completely convinced that his or hers is the right one. Part of the problem in this kind of a situation--perhaps the seat of the problem--is that a great many prominent astrologers apparently feel obligated to make a highly visible public prediction under every imaginable circumstance, and through my own hard experiences of failure on charts of public figures with dubious birth times, I view this as a very bad mistake indeed. On the contrary, the astrologer is not obligated to predict at all on matters of public or private concern; but out of the desire to give service or offer comfort, how many astrologers are able to resist the temptation? And the worst part of it is that the public views these astrologers as careless, foolish, self-serving or lacking in the expertise of their skills, and nothing could be further from the truth (in most cases). So I wish that in the community of astrologers, some of them will learn to say 'no' to the internal or external pressure to predict, and put the situation in God's hands and let the public wonder the meaning of such tragedies within the privacy of their own souls. Let's then please avoid prognostications on a public figure's rashi chakra if there's any doubt whatsoever about the accuracy of the birth particulars. Vedic astrology has gotten so lost in the complexities of its own system that these attempts at rectification have become contradictory to each other and unfortunately appear ludicrous to the general public. These comments are directed to the community of astrologers as a whole, including myself as one of its members, to raise the bar of self-restraint and stop making these devastatingly wrong predictions on charts that may have no basis in fact. Sincerely, Haizen Paige vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr wrote: > > Dear Manoj ji, > > I agree and that is why I used the adjective "irresponsible". > > However, it must be added that "erudite astrologers" have verified and confirmed different lagnas in this case. Pt Sanjay Rath thinks that Gemini lagna chart is correct and Sri KN Rao apparently thinks that Taurus lagna chart is correct. Both seemingly said that the time is critical for him, using two different charts. Though both made the correct call, obviously one of them is (or possibly both of them are) using a wrong chart. > > And, on vedic astrology , a gentleman claimed that he personally met an astrologer who was consulted by Pramod Mahajan. Apparently, the latter read Pramod Mahajan's chart that was prepared at birth. According to him, Mahajan has Sagittarius lagna! After Mahajan's passing away, this gentleman contacted that astrologer again and confirmed that lagna is Sg. > > Though people may not like hearing this, I will make one honest observation here. If a reasonably accurate chart is given, i.e. birthtime is in the ball-park of the correct time and the error is 10 min or less, then we seem to do a good job of rectifying the chart and making correct predictions. Even students who have been leaning for a year or two seem to be able to come to a consensus on the correct birthtime and make good predictions. I see it practically in my own Sunday classes near Boston. > > However, if two or three totally different charts are given, we seem to be more susceptible to making bad calls. Especially, if the correct chart is hidden and 2 or 3 wrong charts are circulated, we do not seem to be able to always identify that none of the circulated charts is correct and end up picking up one of the charts. > > In some mathematical optimization problems, solution is possible only if you start close to the "global" optimum. Otherwise, you may end up with a "local" optimum and not reach the global optimum. I wonder if we have such an issue. > > In any case, I did see in several cases (e.g. Vajpayee, Kerry, Sonia, Mahajan, Karunanidhi) that very good astrologers end up "verifying" and endorsing totally different charts and sometimes all of them are wrong too. > > On a personal note, I think there was an egoistic reason for my prediction without a lot of ground work. On that day, I spent 15.5 hours meditating with a Vedamantra, starting at sunrise and ending in the night. I was feeling very blissful at the end. Still, I guess I was overcome by moha (delusion) and thought that Pramod Mahajan's survival would be good for the country. Moreover, I thought that my making a positive prediction after such a "long sadhana" would help his case. Obviously, that was quite egoistic and foolish of me. As long as that ego and sense of doership remains, no amount of sadhana is fully useful. The goal of all sadhana is to merge one's consciousness with the supreme consciousness and merge one's will power with the divine will. Until that happens, I guess such stupid thoughts keep coming. In any case, I wanted to make a positive prediction and spent 5 minutes with the chart given by Pt Sanjay Rath and saw that Jaimini's longevity rules show a long life in the chart. Then I was happy and went ahead. It is quite appropriate that a prediction based on subtle egotism came back to teach a lesson or two in egotism. > > Bottomline is: I did concede that I was irresponsible. But, if you listen to the free mp3 audio of our classes at Boston, you will see that we normally do our astrology very responsibly and systematically. I can only try to improve. > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > > Dear PVR ji, > > > > An erudite astrologer like you should have verified Mithuna lagna horoscope first before attempting to give out a prediction on that. Thats my humble suggestion. > > > > regards, > > > > Manoj > > > > childofdevi <childofdevi@> wrote: > > Dear PVR-ji, > > > > Even though the prediction did not happen, your humility is very > > admirable especially considering how deeply knowledgeable you are. The > > light of Brahman has indeed shined through:-). > > > > With respects and best regards, > > -Vijay > > > > , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > I humbly accept my failure in this particular case. I went by > > Jaimini's "3 parts rule" for determining the longevity. With the > > Gemini lagna chart given by Pt Sanjay Rath, I get long life (72-108 > > years) with my understanding of the rule of 3 parts. Though he is > > running maraka dasas as per the natal chart as well as the annual > > chart, I went by the "long life" expectation and thought that he would > > survive the maraka dasas in annual chart until June 26. I humbly > > accept my failure. > > > > > > > One must never take any astro predictions seriously. > > > > I for one would from now on never seek to consult an astrologer. > > > > > > I think we need to improve, but I am not as pessimistic. In my > > Sunday classes at Boston, we usually take up one chart in each class > > and spend a little more than an hour rectifying the birthtime based on > > known events and then make predictions in the next hour. There have > > been so many occasions when students confirmed a few months later that > > the prediction of the class came perfectly true for them, their > > relatives and friends. > > > > > > All of us make many correct predictions and some wrong ones too. > > Especially in celebrity charts, we sometimes don't spend enough time > > and still overenthusiastically (and irresponsibly) make predictions > > with data that may not be accurate or fully rectified. Such is the > > power of maya that celebrity charts are sometimes simply irresistible. > > Of course, in some cases, failure is not due to a wrong time, but due > > to over-reliance on a fallible technique. > > > > > > > Better to trust in God ... Chant His name!! > > > > > > I wouldn't contest that one. Chanting His name (or Her name) is > > anyday better than doing astrology. But then, both can be done. > > > > > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------------------------- > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > ------------------------------- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 So far only Shri KN Rao has correctly and with solid reasoning predicted the pramod mahajan case. It's his 100% true devotion towards this sciece and purity, which he hsa maintained been able to predict correctly. haizen <haizen wrote: Dear Group: I would also like to add that I've even seen a chart for Capricorn rising for Mr. Mahajan and a correct prediction was made off it that he would not survive. This makes for at least 4 or 5 "official" charts for this man and each astrologer is completely convinced that his or hers is the right one. Part of the problem in this kind of a situation--perhaps the seat of the problem--is that a great many prominent astrologers apparently feel obligated to make a highly visible public prediction under every imaginable circumstance, and through my own hard experiences of failure on charts of public figures with dubious birth times, I view this as a very bad mistake indeed. On the contrary, the astrologer is not obligated to predict at all on matters of public or private concern; but out of the desire to give service or offer comfort, how many astrologers are able to resist the temptation? And the worst part of it is that the public views these astrologers as careless, foolish, self-serving or lacking in the expertise of their skills, and nothing could be further from the truth (in most cases). So I wish that in the community of astrologers, some of them will learn to say 'no' to the internal or external pressure to predict, and put the situation in God's hands and let the public wonder the meaning of such tragedies within the privacy of their own souls. Let's then please avoid prognostications on a public figure's rashi chakra if there's any doubt whatsoever about the accuracy of the birth particulars. Vedic astrology has gotten so lost in the complexities of its own system that these attempts at rectification have become contradictory to each other and unfortunately appear ludicrous to the general public. These comments are directed to the community of astrologers as a whole, including myself as one of its members, to raise the bar of self-restraint and stop making these devastatingly wrong predictions on charts that may have no basis in fact. Sincerely, Haizen Paige vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr wrote: > > Dear Manoj ji, > > I agree and that is why I used the adjective "irresponsible". > > However, it must be added that "erudite astrologers" have verified and confirmed different lagnas in this case. Pt Sanjay Rath thinks that Gemini lagna chart is correct and Sri KN Rao apparently thinks that Taurus lagna chart is correct. Both seemingly said that the time is critical for him, using two different charts. Though both made the correct call, obviously one of them is (or possibly both of them are) using a wrong chart. > > And, on vedic astrology , a gentleman claimed that he personally met an astrologer who was consulted by Pramod Mahajan. Apparently, the latter read Pramod Mahajan's chart that was prepared at birth. According to him, Mahajan has Sagittarius lagna! After Mahajan's passing away, this gentleman contacted that astrologer again and confirmed that lagna is Sg. > > Though people may not like hearing this, I will make one honest observation here. If a reasonably accurate chart is given, i.e. birthtime is in the ball-park of the correct time and the error is 10 min or less, then we seem to do a good job of rectifying the chart and making correct predictions. Even students who have been leaning for a year or two seem to be able to come to a consensus on the correct birthtime and make good predictions. I see it practically in my own Sunday classes near Boston. > > However, if two or three totally different charts are given, we seem to be more susceptible to making bad calls. Especially, if the correct chart is hidden and 2 or 3 wrong charts are circulated, we do not seem to be able to always identify that none of the circulated charts is correct and end up picking up one of the charts. > > In some mathematical optimization problems, solution is possible only if you start close to the "global" optimum. Otherwise, you may end up with a "local" optimum and not reach the global optimum. I wonder if we have such an issue. > > In any case, I did see in several cases (e.g. Vajpayee, Kerry, Sonia, Mahajan, Karunanidhi) that very good astrologers end up "verifying" and endorsing totally different charts and sometimes all of them are wrong too. > > On a personal note, I think there was an egoistic reason for my prediction without a lot of ground work. On that day, I spent 15.5 hours meditating with a Vedamantra, starting at sunrise and ending in the night. I was feeling very blissful at the end. Still, I guess I was overcome by moha (delusion) and thought that Pramod Mahajan's survival would be good for the country. Moreover, I thought that my making a positive prediction after such a "long sadhana" would help his case. Obviously, that was quite egoistic and foolish of me. As long as that ego and sense of doership remains, no amount of sadhana is fully useful. The goal of all sadhana is to merge one's consciousness with the supreme consciousness and merge one's will power with the divine will. Until that happens, I guess such stupid thoughts keep coming. In any case, I wanted to make a positive prediction and spent 5 minutes with the chart given by Pt Sanjay Rath and saw that Jaimini's longevity rules show a long life in the chart. Then I was happy and went ahead. It is quite appropriate that a prediction based on subtle egotism came back to teach a lesson or two in egotism. > > Bottomline is: I did concede that I was irresponsible. But, if you listen to the free mp3 audio of our classes at Boston, you will see that we normally do our astrology very responsibly and systematically. I can only try to improve. > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > > Dear PVR ji, > > > > An erudite astrologer like you should have verified Mithuna lagna horoscope first before attempting to give out a prediction on that. Thats my humble suggestion. > > > > regards, > > > > Manoj > > > > childofdevi <childofdevi@> wrote: > > Dear PVR-ji, > > > > Even though the prediction did not happen, your humility is very > > admirable especially considering how deeply knowledgeable you are. The > > light of Brahman has indeed shined through:-). > > > > With respects and best regards, > > -Vijay > > > > , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > > I humbly accept my failure in this particular case. I went by > > Jaimini's "3 parts rule" for determining the longevity. With the > > Gemini lagna chart given by Pt Sanjay Rath, I get long life (72-108 > > years) with my understanding of the rule of 3 parts. Though he is > > running maraka dasas as per the natal chart as well as the annual > > chart, I went by the "long life" expectation and thought that he would > > survive the maraka dasas in annual chart until June 26. I humbly > > accept my failure. > > > > > > > One must never take any astro predictions seriously. > > > > I for one would from now on never seek to consult an astrologer. > > > > > > I think we need to improve, but I am not as pessimistic. In my > > Sunday classes at Boston, we usually take up one chart in each class > > and spend a little more than an hour rectifying the birthtime based on > > known events and then make predictions in the next hour. There have > > been so many occasions when students confirmed a few months later that > > the prediction of the class came perfectly true for them, their > > relatives and friends. > > > > > > All of us make many correct predictions and some wrong ones too. > > Especially in celebrity charts, we sometimes don't spend enough time > > and still overenthusiastically (and irresponsibly) make predictions > > with data that may not be accurate or fully rectified. Such is the > > power of maya that celebrity charts are sometimes simply irresistible. > > Of course, in some cases, failure is not due to a wrong time, but due > > to over-reliance on a fallible technique. > > > > > > > Better to trust in God ... Chant His name!! > > > > > > I wouldn't contest that one. Chanting His name (or Her name) is > > anyday better than doing astrology. But then, both can be done. > > > > > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------------------------- > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > ------------------------------- > > > > Astrology chart Vedic astrology Astrology horoscope Astrology software Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web. vedic astrology Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone. 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Guest guest Posted May 7, 2006 Report Share Posted May 7, 2006 Dear PVR, I 100% agree to you. Pramod Mahajan was very very shrewd and no one can know what he will do and what's goin on in his mind ?? He was Chankya of BJP..no doubt. However, this case is a lesson to all astrologers and to a certain extent created a big confusion in the astrology world. All said & done a Astrologer can only predict 80%.... it also depends on the Karmas of the native and Pramod Mahajan's fight with UMA BHARATHI ( Sadhavi) and the politics to remove her and being in politics...one can not hope for good karmas ?? Don't you feel even that could have made a difference ?? regards; Kaartik Gor "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr wrote: Dear Manoj ji, I agree and that is why I used the adjective "irresponsible". However, it must be added that "erudite astrologers" have verified and confirmed different lagnas in this case. Pt Sanjay Rath thinks that Gemini lagna chart is correct and Sri KN Rao apparently thinks that Taurus lagna chart is correct. Both seemingly said that the time is critical for him, using two different charts. Though both made the correct call, obviously one of them is (or possibly both of them are) using a wrong chart. And, on vedic astrology , a gentleman claimed that he personally met an astrologer who was consulted by Pramod Mahajan. Apparently, the latter read Pramod Mahajan's chart that was prepared at birth. According to him, Mahajan has Sagittarius lagna! After Mahajan's passing away, this gentleman contacted that astrologer again and confirmed that lagna is Sg. Though people may not like hearing this, I will make one honest observation here. If a reasonably accurate chart is given, i.e. birthtime is in the ball-park of the correct time and the error is 10 min or less, then we seem to do a good job of rectifying the chart and making correct predictions. Even students who have been leaning for a year or two seem to be able to come to a consensus on the correct birthtime and make good predictions. I see it practically in my own Sunday classes near Boston. However, if two or three totally different charts are given, we seem to be more susceptible to making bad calls. Especially, if the correct chart is hidden and 2 or 3 wrong charts are circulated, we do not seem to be able to always identify that none of the circulated charts is correct and end up picking up one of the charts. In some mathematical optimization problems, solution is possible only if you start close to the "global" optimum. Otherwise, you may end up with a "local" optimum and not reach the global optimum. I wonder if we have such an issue. In any case, I did see in several cases (e.g. Vajpayee, Kerry, Sonia, Mahajan, Karunanidhi) that very good astrologers end up "verifying" and endorsing totally different charts and sometimes all of them are wrong too. On a personal note, I think there was an egoistic reason for my prediction without a lot of ground work. On that day, I spent 15.5 hours meditating with a Vedamantra, starting at sunrise and ending in the night. I was feeling very blissful at the end. Still, I guess I was overcome by moha (delusion) and thought that Pramod Mahajan's survival would be good for the country. Moreover, I thought that my making a positive prediction after such a "long sadhana" would help his case. Obviously, that was quite egoistic and foolish of me. As long as that ego and sense of doership remains, no amount of sadhana is fully useful. The goal of all sadhana is to merge one's consciousness with the supreme consciousness and merge one's will power with the divine will. Until that happens, I guess such stupid thoughts keep coming. In any case, I wanted to make a positive prediction and spent 5 minutes with the chart given by Pt Sanjay Rath and saw that Jaimini's longevity rules show a long life in the chart. Then I was happy and went ahead. It is quite appropriate that a prediction based on subtle egotism came back to teach a lesson or two in egotism. Bottomline is: I did concede that I was irresponsible. But, if you listen to the free mp3 audio of our classes at Boston, you will see that we normally do our astrology very responsibly and systematically. I can only try to improve. May the light of Brahman shine within, Narasimha ------------------------------- Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org ------------------------------- > Dear PVR ji, > > An erudite astrologer like you should have verified Mithuna lagna horoscope first before attempting to give out a prediction on that. Thats my humble suggestion. > > regards, > > Manoj > > childofdevi <childofdevi wrote: > Dear PVR-ji, > > Even though the prediction did not happen, your humility is very > admirable especially considering how deeply knowledgeable you are. The > light of Brahman has indeed shined through:-). > > With respects and best regards, > -Vijay > > , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > I humbly accept my failure in this particular case. I went by > Jaimini's "3 parts rule" for determining the longevity. With the > Gemini lagna chart given by Pt Sanjay Rath, I get long life (72-108 > years) with my understanding of the rule of 3 parts. Though he is > running maraka dasas as per the natal chart as well as the annual > chart, I went by the "long life" expectation and thought that he would > survive the maraka dasas in annual chart until June 26. I humbly > accept my failure. > > > > > One must never take any astro predictions seriously. > > > I for one would from now on never seek to consult an astrologer. > > > > I think we need to improve, but I am not as pessimistic. In my > Sunday classes at Boston, we usually take up one chart in each class > and spend a little more than an hour rectifying the birthtime based on > known events and then make predictions in the next hour. There have > been so many occasions when students confirmed a few months later that > the prediction of the class came perfectly true for them, their > relatives and friends. > > > > All of us make many correct predictions and some wrong ones too. > Especially in celebrity charts, we sometimes don't spend enough time > and still overenthusiastically (and irresponsibly) make predictions > with data that may not be accurate or fully rectified. Such is the > power of maya that celebrity charts are sometimes simply irresistible. > Of course, in some cases, failure is not due to a wrong time, but due > to over-reliance on a fallible technique. > > > > > Better to trust in God ... Chant His name!! > > > > I wouldn't contest that one. Chanting His name (or Her name) is > anyday better than doing astrology. But then, both can be done. > > > > May the light of Brahman shine within, > > Narasimha > > ------------------------------- > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > ------------------------------- Astrology chart Vedic astrology Astrology horoscope Astrology software Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web. vedic astrology Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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