Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Dear Srinivasji, There are human understandings that is very complete without bhakti. Bhakti has nothing to do there. Mathematics, Physics, Nyaya, the list is endless. There can be love with absolutely no understanding as to why it is there. Looks like you haven't fallen in love in your life! :) Regards, Souvik Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Oops sorry I meant to address Bharatji! :) Bharatji, Lets take another simple example. A 12-18th. months old child. You will definitely agree that child has almost no jnana at that stage. When that child cries and no one can stop him/her, the mother takes the child in her arms and showers love and affection. I would also consider this as a form of bhakti. The child keeps quite. No Jnana but perfectly understands love. Regards, Souvik Souvik Dutta <explore_vulcan wrote: Dear Srinivasji, There are human understandings that is very complete without bhakti. Bhakti has nothing to do there. Mathematics, Physics, Nyaya, the list is endless. There can be love with absolutely no understanding as to why it is there. Looks like you haven't fallen in love in your life! :) Regards, Souvik Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Bharat ji, My understanding, based on my limited reading, is that Jnana & Bhakti are like markata kishora nyaaya and maarjaala kishora nyaya respectively. in markata kishora nyaya, the responsibility of safely clinging to mother during a transit is on the baby monkey...a jnani is like that. whereas in the case of bhakti, the devotee is like the kitten, he is safely held by the mother. There's a risk of the jnani, losing hold on Mother (God) and falling, like the baby monkey sometimes does because of its own confusions and inadequacies, but in the case of the kitten, the Mother itself takes care. Likewise, Bhagavan Himself takes care of the bhakta. I always felt that both are necessary for reaching God and i take the support of Maha Bharata in this. Bhishma pitamaha was a great jnani, yet, in the final moments of his life he recited Vishnu Sahasranaamam, which marked the high point of devotion. Arjuna was a great sakha and bhakta of Krishna, yet toards the end the Lord makes sure that he acquires sufficient jnana also by personally teaching him in the form of Bhagavad gita. I feel, that one must have jnana, which is bhakti in action, 2nd house being the 10th house from 5th house...in the list of gyana yogas given by Dr. Raman 2nd house/lord has great importance... while bhakti must remain at the heart of jnana (5th house being 4th from 2nd). Please correct my mistakes. Regards, Lakshmi vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology wrote: > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > You can take any view, the definition of Bhakti and Jnana cannot change. If > you take Dwaita - it is Jnana that I and lord are separate and therefore > Bhakti is limited to Lord as separate from oneself. If you take V- Adwaita, > then, it is Jnana that I am a part of the Lord and therefore Bhakti is of > the same nature. Similarly of Adwaita. Where is the difference between the > two? > It is unnecessary to bring Dwaita, V-Adwaita and Adwaita differences here. > > Bhakti does not mean no thinking. No love can come without understanding. No > understanding can be complete without Bhakti. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi wrote: > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > Thanks for your enlightening views.My concept of understanding is > > based on(Visishta) Dwaitha principles .As far as my personal view is > > concerned the ultimate result(undersanding) is Adwaithic state > > that "the other is not separate from me" comes through the path of > > dwaitha only. > > > > Internally (as many of us perhaps) I thought and thought about the > > ultimate truth through Dwaitic concepts as well as Adwaitic concepts > > and found that both are true in part and something more has to come > > to view them in combination to know the ultimate truth.This is > > nothing but Jnana marga.Whereas in Bhakti state this question is > > gradually(or instantaneoulsly) receding and becoming thoughtless/and > > immaterial. > > > > Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > Can you have Bhakti without understanding of the same? > > > > > > There is no two, Jnana and Bhakti are the same. > > > > > > "Atmanastu Kaamaya Sarvam Priyam Bhavati" - Brihadaryanka > > Upanishad. This > > > verse has the definitions of love and Bhakti in it and also of > > Jnana. I am > > > just giving hints here. > > > > > > Bhakti is loosely translated as "Divine Love". What is Love? - An > > > understanding that the other is not separate from me, which is > > nothing but > > > Jnana. > > > > > > It is an error to treat them separately. > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Bharat > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > > > > Nice question,please let me share my little understanding of > > these > > > > divine concepts in few lines. > > > > > > > > Bhakti doesn't need mode of language for communication with the > > > > Divine,It's simply LOVE(LOOSING ONES VERY EXISTENCE) by > > > > concentrating on God.It also doesn't need any interlocutor for > > > > understanding God.It's mostly instantaneous in formation and > > > > continues without any means of communication or interlocutors in > > > > between soul and the Divine. > > > > > > > > Whereas gyan is mostly percieved through senses in first stage > > and > > > > progresses with/without crutches of means of communication and > > > > interlocutors. > > > > > > > > The Goal and ultimate destination of both is the same viz > > > > realisation of Divinity. > > > > > > > > Kind request for Gurujis to evaluate of my understanding and > > correct > > > > the same. > > > > > > > > srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > - > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- astrology- > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > - Terms of > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB NeEg> Vedic > > astrology</gads? t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI dnHA> Astrology > > horoscope</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > software</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt 6iLuaCw> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- astrology<vedic astrology>" > > on the web. > > > > - > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology- ?subject=Un> > > > > - Terms of > > Service <>. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Dear Members, One had the good fortune (most certainly) of coming across some splendid factors relating to the topic under discussion. I was particularly interested as I have been perplexed about this question or its variants in the past and put up these thoughts for discussion on either this List or another. In Shri Robert Koch's book, The Spiritual Dimensions of Vedic Astrology, the following astrological combination is given: If the Lagna Lord is also the Char Atmakaraka (AK), the Jatak follows the Jnana Marga/ tries to approach divinity through the intelligence/ Dhi. The Lagna and the Lagna Lord are the indicators of the Dhi-Shakti or intelligence. The AK is the significator of the Soul. The Lagna Lord and the AK being the same Graha make for an intellectual approach to understanding the spiritual nature of existence. It is quite a beautiful explanation. There are other combinations given for the Lagnamsha and the Karakamsha. Although a bit off the point, there are some very deep and astoundingly accurate dicta given about the expression of the afflicted AK and so on and so forth. Regards. Anurag. vedic astrology, "B Lakshmi Ramesh" <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Bharat ji, > > My understanding, based on my limited reading, is that Jnana & > Bhakti are like markata kishora nyaaya and maarjaala kishora nyaya > respectively. in markata kishora nyaya, the responsibility of safely > clinging to mother during a transit is on the baby monkey...a jnani > is like that. whereas in the case of bhakti, the devotee is like the > kitten, he is safely held by the mother. There's a risk of the > jnani, losing hold on Mother (God) and falling, like the baby monkey > sometimes does because of its own confusions and inadequacies, but > in the case of the kitten, the Mother itself takes care. Likewise, > Bhagavan Himself takes care of the bhakta. > > I always felt that both are necessary for reaching God and i take > the support of Maha Bharata in this. Bhishma pitamaha was a great > jnani, yet, in the final moments of his life he recited Vishnu > Sahasranaamam, which marked the high point of devotion. Arjuna was a > great sakha and bhakta of Krishna, yet toards the end the Lord makes > sure that he acquires sufficient jnana also by personally teaching > him in the form of Bhagavad gita. > > I feel, that one must have jnana, which is bhakti in action, 2nd > house being the 10th house from 5th house...in the list of gyana > yogas given by Dr. Raman 2nd house/lord has great importance... > while bhakti must remain at the heart of jnana (5th house being 4th > from 2nd). > > Please correct my mistakes. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > You can take any view, the definition of Bhakti and Jnana cannot > change. If > > you take Dwaita - it is Jnana that I and lord are separate and > therefore > > Bhakti is limited to Lord as separate from oneself. If you take V- > Adwaita, > > then, it is Jnana that I am a part of the Lord and therefore > Bhakti is of > > the same nature. Similarly of Adwaita. Where is the difference > between the > > two? > > It is unnecessary to bring Dwaita, V-Adwaita and Adwaita > differences here. > > > > Bhakti does not mean no thinking. No love can come without > understanding. No > > understanding can be complete without Bhakti. > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > Thanks for your enlightening views.My concept of understanding is > > > based on(Visishta) Dwaitha principles .As far as my personal > view is > > > concerned the ultimate result(undersanding) is Adwaithic state > > > that "the other is not separate from me" comes through the path > of > > > dwaitha only. > > > > > > Internally (as many of us perhaps) I thought and thought about > the > > > ultimate truth through Dwaitic concepts as well as Adwaitic > concepts > > > and found that both are true in part and something more has to > come > > > to view them in combination to know the ultimate truth.This is > > > nothing but Jnana marga.Whereas in Bhakti state this question is > > > gradually(or instantaneoulsly) receding and becoming > thoughtless/and > > > immaterial. > > > > > > Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > Can you have Bhakti without understanding of the same? > > > > > > > > There is no two, Jnana and Bhakti are the same. > > > > > > > > "Atmanastu Kaamaya Sarvam Priyam Bhavati" - Brihadaryanka > > > Upanishad. This > > > > verse has the definitions of love and Bhakti in it and also of > > > Jnana. I am > > > > just giving hints here. > > > > > > > > Bhakti is loosely translated as "Divine Love". What is Love? - > An > > > > understanding that the other is not separate from me, which is > > > nothing but > > > > Jnana. > > > > > > > > It is an error to treat them separately. > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > > > > > > Nice question,please let me share my little understanding of > > > these > > > > > divine concepts in few lines. > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti doesn't need mode of language for communication with > the > > > > > Divine,It's simply LOVE(LOOSING ONES VERY EXISTENCE) by > > > > > concentrating on God.It also doesn't need any interlocutor > for > > > > > understanding God.It's mostly instantaneous in formation and > > > > > continues without any means of communication or > interlocutors in > > > > > between soul and the Divine. > > > > > > > > > > Whereas gyan is mostly percieved through senses in first > stage > > > and > > > > > progresses with/without crutches of means of communication > and > > > > > interlocutors. > > > > > > > > > > The Goal and ultimate destination of both is the same viz > > > > > realisation of Divinity. > > > > > > > > > > Kind request for Gurujis to evaluate of my understanding and > > > correct > > > > > the same. > > > > > > > > > > srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- > astrology- > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > - > Terms of > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > NeEg> Vedic > > > astrology</gads? > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > dnHA> Astrology > > > horoscope</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > software</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > on the web. > > > > > > - > > > vedic astrology<vedic- astrology- > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > - Terms of > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Namaskaar Sri Lakshmi You cannot be a Jnani without having Bhakti or vice versa. I can explain this but neither you nor Sri Souvik are going to be satisfied. This is best seen within oneself. For enabling the same, let me leave some pointers: Intellectual understanding is not Jnana. For example- for me to say All is Brahman, you may appreciate it intellectually, but, may not realize the enormity of this statement. The understanding can only come through surrender. And what is surrender - Bhakti! Now look at the opposite - Bhakti is surrender - Can it come without Jnana that All is the Lord. What did Sri Ramakrishna see - Ma within and without - He was the greatest Jnani. Same with Sri Hanuman. Sri Ramana Maharishi was a greatest Bhakta - he surrendered to Lord of Death. The measure of a person's spirituality is by the enormity of reactions he has to his environment. The person who is a bhakta - surrenders and therefore, does not react. Whenever people see a "Jnani" reacting - it means he is not a Jnani. These are not two paths either. It is the same cognition or recognition. To consider them separate from each other is a mistake. Spirituality is for the bravest of the brave and not meant for those running away from life. The process of cognition of Vedic principles is - Study - Questioning - Intellectual understanding (to those lacking the same must perform obligatory duties - karma Yoga) - developing Faith (not blind belief) - Taking risk from stepping out of self imposed limitations - getting signals from Nature - gentle reminders of divinity around - ...... I will end now or else another lesson from Bhagavad Gita and the Upanishads might have to start. I leave both of you to believe what you would like to. It is neither my duty nor my desire to change your views but a hope that you will realize this huge principle. Thanks and Regards Bharat On 3/17/06, B Lakshmi Ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Bharat ji, > > My understanding, based on my limited reading, is that Jnana & > Bhakti are like markata kishora nyaaya and maarjaala kishora nyaya > respectively. in markata kishora nyaya, the responsibility of safely > clinging to mother during a transit is on the baby monkey...a jnani > is like that. whereas in the case of bhakti, the devotee is like the > kitten, he is safely held by the mother. There's a risk of the > jnani, losing hold on Mother (God) and falling, like the baby monkey > sometimes does because of its own confusions and inadequacies, but > in the case of the kitten, the Mother itself takes care. Likewise, > Bhagavan Himself takes care of the bhakta. > > I always felt that both are necessary for reaching God and i take > the support of Maha Bharata in this. Bhishma pitamaha was a great > jnani, yet, in the final moments of his life he recited Vishnu > Sahasranaamam, which marked the high point of devotion. Arjuna was a > great sakha and bhakta of Krishna, yet toards the end the Lord makes > sure that he acquires sufficient jnana also by personally teaching > him in the form of Bhagavad gita. > > I feel, that one must have jnana, which is bhakti in action, 2nd > house being the 10th house from 5th house...in the list of gyana > yogas given by Dr. Raman 2nd house/lord has great importance... > while bhakti must remain at the heart of jnana (5th house being 4th > from 2nd). > > Please correct my mistakes. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > <hinduastrology wrote: > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > You can take any view, the definition of Bhakti and Jnana cannot > change. If > > you take Dwaita - it is Jnana that I and lord are separate and > therefore > > Bhakti is limited to Lord as separate from oneself. If you take V- > Adwaita, > > then, it is Jnana that I am a part of the Lord and therefore > Bhakti is of > > the same nature. Similarly of Adwaita. Where is the difference > between the > > two? > > It is unnecessary to bring Dwaita, V-Adwaita and Adwaita > differences here. > > > > Bhakti does not mean no thinking. No love can come without > understanding. No > > understanding can be complete without Bhakti. > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi wrote: > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > Thanks for your enlightening views.My concept of understanding is > > > based on(Visishta) Dwaitha principles .As far as my personal > view is > > > concerned the ultimate result(undersanding) is Adwaithic state > > > that "the other is not separate from me" comes through the path > of > > > dwaitha only. > > > > > > Internally (as many of us perhaps) I thought and thought about > the > > > ultimate truth through Dwaitic concepts as well as Adwaitic > concepts > > > and found that both are true in part and something more has to > come > > > to view them in combination to know the ultimate truth.This is > > > nothing but Jnana marga.Whereas in Bhakti state this question is > > > gradually(or instantaneoulsly) receding and becoming > thoughtless/and > > > immaterial. > > > > > > Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > Can you have Bhakti without understanding of the same? > > > > > > > > There is no two, Jnana and Bhakti are the same. > > > > > > > > "Atmanastu Kaamaya Sarvam Priyam Bhavati" - Brihadaryanka > > > Upanishad. This > > > > verse has the definitions of love and Bhakti in it and also of > > > Jnana. I am > > > > just giving hints here. > > > > > > > > Bhakti is loosely translated as "Divine Love". What is Love? - > An > > > > understanding that the other is not separate from me, which is > > > nothing but > > > > Jnana. > > > > > > > > It is an error to treat them separately. > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > > > > > > Nice question,please let me share my little understanding of > > > these > > > > > divine concepts in few lines. > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti doesn't need mode of language for communication with > the > > > > > Divine,It's simply LOVE(LOOSING ONES VERY EXISTENCE) by > > > > > concentrating on God.It also doesn't need any interlocutor > for > > > > > understanding God.It's mostly instantaneous in formation and > > > > > continues without any means of communication or > interlocutors in > > > > > between soul and the Divine. > > > > > > > > > > Whereas gyan is mostly percieved through senses in first > stage > > > and > > > > > progresses with/without crutches of means of communication > and > > > > > interlocutors. > > > > > > > > > > The Goal and ultimate destination of both is the same viz > > > > > realisation of Divinity. > > > > > > > > > > Kind request for Gurujis to evaluate of my understanding and > > > correct > > > > > the same. > > > > > > > > > > srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- > astrology- > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > - > Terms of > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > NeEg> Vedic > > > astrology</gads? > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > dnHA> Astrology > > > horoscope</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > software</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > on the web. > > > > > > - > > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology- > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > - Terms of > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=\ Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Uokti\ PHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart\ &w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=q\ NtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+c\ hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.s\ ig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+cha\ rt&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig\ =Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > ------------------------------ > > > > - Visit your group "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > on the web. > > - > vedic astrology<vedic astrology-@gro\ ups.com?subject=Un> > > - Terms of > Service <>. > > > ------------------------------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Namaskaar Sri Souvik I have given the reply to Sri Lakshmi and that is for you too. Just one interesting thing - You wrote: "No Jnana but perfectly understands love." , I hope you get the hint. Thanks and Regards Bharat On 3/17/06, Souvik Dutta <explore_vulcan wrote: > > Oops sorry I meant to address Bharatji! :) > > Bharatji, > > Lets take another simple example. > > A 12-18th. months old child. You will definitely agree that child has > almost no jnana at that stage. > > When that child cries and no one can stop him/her, the mother takes the > child in her arms and showers love and affection. I would also consider this > as a form of bhakti. > > The child keeps quite. > > No Jnana but perfectly understands love. > > Regards, > > Souvik > > > > Souvik Dutta <explore_vulcan wrote: > Dear Srinivasji, > > There are human understandings that is very complete without bhakti. > Bhakti has nothing to do there. Mathematics, Physics, Nyaya, the list is > endless. > There can be love with absolutely no understanding as to why it is > there. Looks like you haven't fallen in love in your life! :) > > Regards, > Souvik > > > Mail > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > > > > Mail > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=\ Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Uokti\ PHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart\ &w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=q\ NtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+c\ hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.s\ ig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+cha\ rt&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig\ =Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > ------------------------------ > > > > - Visit your group "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > on the web. > > - > vedic astrology<vedic astrology-@gro\ ups.com?subject=Un> > > - Terms of > Service <>. > > > ------------------------------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Shashtanga pranam Bharatji, What a beautiful explanation....splendid! Why should we fight over mother(Bhakti) and son(Jnana), tell me? :) But this is what I understood-you used the term Jana as REALIZATION of the Supreme..wonderful...In Hindi can we say that this term to be "ANUBHUTI". If you are talking about Anubhuti, how very correct you are!! No wonder!! How can I have bhakti without realization...beautiful..see your own words.. "Intellectual understanding is not Jnana. For example- for me to say All is Brahman, you may appreciate it intellectually, but, may not realize the enormity of this statement." See how beautifully you have explained. Which idiot can disagree with this :)? I am so sorry to enter into a debate with you if this was your meaning from the first place. A fool like me, mistook the meaning of Jnana as knowledge, and knowledge alone! This is what I understood Jnana as intellectual abilities and knowledge and all that crap. You have shown me light, thank you! "Tui jare Krishna bolish, aami tare Kali" :) Great words of Thakur. The one you call Krishna, I call Kali. To cry with realization in heart, to jump up and dance in joy, to do things that society can never accept, the scholars will never approve...this bhakti, headlessness.. See from day 1 both of us were speaking the same thing, just that we perceived the word jnana as different...how silly of us, isn't it:) You know now when I think of it, I say what a fool am I to explain bhakti in words ...words are for jnanis (oops..I mean scholars)...it is a very bad tool to use for anubhuti...that is the essence of Bhakti...didn't the Maharshis teach us mauna! :) Have a great weekend! Souvik vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology wrote: > > Namaskaar Sri Lakshmi > > You cannot be a Jnani without having Bhakti or vice versa. I can explain > this but neither you nor Sri Souvik are going to be satisfied. This is best > seen within oneself. For enabling the same, let me leave some pointers: > > Intellectual understanding is not Jnana. For example- for me to say All is > Brahman, you may appreciate it intellectually, but, may not realize the > enormity of this statement. The understanding can only come through > surrender. And what is surrender - Bhakti! > > Now look at the opposite - Bhakti is surrender - Can it come without Jnana > that All is the Lord. What did Sri Ramakrishna see - Ma within and without - > He was the greatest Jnani. Same with Sri Hanuman. Sri Ramana Maharishi was a > greatest Bhakta - he surrendered to Lord of Death. > > The measure of a person's spirituality is by the enormity of reactions he > has to his environment. The person who is a bhakta - surrenders and > therefore, does not react. Whenever people see a "Jnani" reacting - it means > he is not a Jnani. These are not two paths either. It is the same cognition > or recognition. To consider them separate from each other is a mistake. > > Spirituality is for the bravest of the brave and not meant for those running > away from life. The process of cognition of Vedic principles is - Study - > Questioning - Intellectual understanding (to those lacking the same must > perform obligatory duties - karma Yoga) - developing Faith (not blind > belief) - Taking risk from stepping out of self imposed limitations - > getting signals from Nature - gentle reminders of divinity around - ...... > > I will end now or else another lesson from Bhagavad Gita and the Upanishads > might have to start. I leave both of you to believe what you would like to. > It is neither my duty nor my desire to change your views but a hope that you > will realize this huge principle. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > > > > On 3/17/06, B Lakshmi Ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Bharat ji, > > > > My understanding, based on my limited reading, is that Jnana & > > Bhakti are like markata kishora nyaaya and maarjaala kishora nyaya > > respectively. in markata kishora nyaya, the responsibility of safely > > clinging to mother during a transit is on the baby monkey...a jnani > > is like that. whereas in the case of bhakti, the devotee is like the > > kitten, he is safely held by the mother. There's a risk of the > > jnani, losing hold on Mother (God) and falling, like the baby monkey > > sometimes does because of its own confusions and inadequacies, but > > in the case of the kitten, the Mother itself takes care. Likewise, > > Bhagavan Himself takes care of the bhakta. > > > > I always felt that both are necessary for reaching God and i take > > the support of Maha Bharata in this. Bhishma pitamaha was a great > > jnani, yet, in the final moments of his life he recited Vishnu > > Sahasranaamam, which marked the high point of devotion. Arjuna was a > > great sakha and bhakta of Krishna, yet toards the end the Lord makes > > sure that he acquires sufficient jnana also by personally teaching > > him in the form of Bhagavad gita. > > > > I feel, that one must have jnana, which is bhakti in action, 2nd > > house being the 10th house from 5th house...in the list of gyana > > yogas given by Dr. Raman 2nd house/lord has great importance... > > while bhakti must remain at the heart of jnana (5th house being 4th > > from 2nd). > > > > Please correct my mistakes. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > You can take any view, the definition of Bhakti and Jnana cannot > > change. If > > > you take Dwaita - it is Jnana that I and lord are separate and > > therefore > > > Bhakti is limited to Lord as separate from oneself. If you take V- > > Adwaita, > > > then, it is Jnana that I am a part of the Lord and therefore > > Bhakti is of > > > the same nature. Similarly of Adwaita. Where is the difference > > between the > > > two? > > > It is unnecessary to bring Dwaita, V-Adwaita and Adwaita > > differences here. > > > > > > Bhakti does not mean no thinking. No love can come without > > understanding. No > > > understanding can be complete without Bhakti. > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > Thanks for your enlightening views.My concept of understanding is > > > > based on(Visishta) Dwaitha principles .As far as my personal > > view is > > > > concerned the ultimate result(undersanding) is Adwaithic state > > > > that "the other is not separate from me" comes through the path > > of > > > > dwaitha only. > > > > > > > > Internally (as many of us perhaps) I thought and thought about > > the > > > > ultimate truth through Dwaitic concepts as well as Adwaitic > > concepts > > > > and found that both are true in part and something more has to > > come > > > > to view them in combination to know the ultimate truth.This is > > > > nothing but Jnana marga.Whereas in Bhakti state this question is > > > > gradually(or instantaneoulsly) receding and becoming > > thoughtless/and > > > > immaterial. > > > > > > > > Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > Can you have Bhakti without understanding of the same? > > > > > > > > > > There is no two, Jnana and Bhakti are the same. > > > > > > > > > > "Atmanastu Kaamaya Sarvam Priyam Bhavati" - Brihadaryanka > > > > Upanishad. This > > > > > verse has the definitions of love and Bhakti in it and also of > > > > Jnana. I am > > > > > just giving hints here. > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti is loosely translated as "Divine Love". What is Love? - > > An > > > > > understanding that the other is not separate from me, which is > > > > nothing but > > > > > Jnana. > > > > > > > > > > It is an error to treat them separately. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice question,please let me share my little understanding of > > > > these > > > > > > divine concepts in few lines. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti doesn't need mode of language for communication with > > the > > > > > > Divine,It's simply LOVE(LOOSING ONES VERY EXISTENCE) by > > > > > > concentrating on God.It also doesn't need any interlocutor > > for > > > > > > understanding God.It's mostly instantaneous in formation and > > > > > > continues without any means of communication or > > interlocutors in > > > > > > between soul and the Divine. > > > > > > > > > > > > Whereas gyan is mostly percieved through senses in first > > stage > > > > and > > > > > > progresses with/without crutches of means of communication > > and > > > > > > interlocutors. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Goal and ultimate destination of both is the same viz > > > > > > realisation of Divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind request for Gurujis to evaluate of my understanding and > > > > correct > > > > > > the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- > > astrology- > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > Terms of > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > astrology</gads? > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > horoscope</gads? > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > software</gads? > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > - > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- astrology- > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > - Terms of > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB NeEg> Vedic > > astrology</gads? t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI dnHA> Astrology > > horoscope</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > software</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt 6iLuaCw> > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- astrology<vedic astrology>" > > on the web. > > > > - > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology- ?subject=Un> > > > > - Terms of > > Service <>. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 dear bharat ji as you rightly observed, all these three margas viz. karma, bhakti and jnana are all inexplicably intertwined. for any person who marches sincerely on any of these three paths, the destination or realisation is the same. since each person has his or her own constitution of elements, different moral, psychological and spiritual needs and each individual having different idiosyncracies and antagonisms, based on these differences, people choose these three different paths. all paths lead to same destination only and no path is inferior or superior to the other. however, in my understanding karma marga in which an individual does self-less service is the best followed by jnana marga where the person spreads the light of knowledge and the bhakti marga is meant for those who have no physcial or mental strength to march on karma and jnana margas. with best wishes and regards pandit arjun vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology wrote: > > Namaskaar Sri Lakshmi > > You cannot be a Jnani without having Bhakti or vice versa. I can explain > this but neither you nor Sri Souvik are going to be satisfied. This is best > seen within oneself. For enabling the same, let me leave some pointers: > > Intellectual understanding is not Jnana. For example- for me to say All is > Brahman, you may appreciate it intellectually, but, may not realize the > enormity of this statement. The understanding can only come through > surrender. And what is surrender - Bhakti! > > Now look at the opposite - Bhakti is surrender - Can it come without Jnana > that All is the Lord. What did Sri Ramakrishna see - Ma within and without - > He was the greatest Jnani. Same with Sri Hanuman. Sri Ramana Maharishi was a > greatest Bhakta - he surrendered to Lord of Death. > > The measure of a person's spirituality is by the enormity of reactions he > has to his environment. The person who is a bhakta - surrenders and > therefore, does not react. Whenever people see a "Jnani" reacting - it means > he is not a Jnani. These are not two paths either. It is the same cognition > or recognition. To consider them separate from each other is a mistake. > > Spirituality is for the bravest of the brave and not meant for those running > away from life. The process of cognition of Vedic principles is - Study - > Questioning - Intellectual understanding (to those lacking the same must > perform obligatory duties - karma Yoga) - developing Faith (not blind > belief) - Taking risk from stepping out of self imposed limitations - > getting signals from Nature - gentle reminders of divinity around - ...... > > I will end now or else another lesson from Bhagavad Gita and the Upanishads > might have to start. I leave both of you to believe what you would like to. > It is neither my duty nor my desire to change your views but a hope that you > will realize this huge principle. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > > > > On 3/17/06, B Lakshmi Ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Bharat ji, > > > > My understanding, based on my limited reading, is that Jnana & > > Bhakti are like markata kishora nyaaya and maarjaala kishora nyaya > > respectively. in markata kishora nyaya, the responsibility of safely > > clinging to mother during a transit is on the baby monkey...a jnani > > is like that. whereas in the case of bhakti, the devotee is like the > > kitten, he is safely held by the mother. There's a risk of the > > jnani, losing hold on Mother (God) and falling, like the baby monkey > > sometimes does because of its own confusions and inadequacies, but > > in the case of the kitten, the Mother itself takes care. Likewise, > > Bhagavan Himself takes care of the bhakta. > > > > I always felt that both are necessary for reaching God and i take > > the support of Maha Bharata in this. Bhishma pitamaha was a great > > jnani, yet, in the final moments of his life he recited Vishnu > > Sahasranaamam, which marked the high point of devotion. Arjuna was a > > great sakha and bhakta of Krishna, yet toards the end the Lord makes > > sure that he acquires sufficient jnana also by personally teaching > > him in the form of Bhagavad gita. > > > > I feel, that one must have jnana, which is bhakti in action, 2nd > > house being the 10th house from 5th house...in the list of gyana > > yogas given by Dr. Raman 2nd house/lord has great importance... > > while bhakti must remain at the heart of jnana (5th house being 4th > > from 2nd). > > > > Please correct my mistakes. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > You can take any view, the definition of Bhakti and Jnana cannot > > change. If > > > you take Dwaita - it is Jnana that I and lord are separate and > > therefore > > > Bhakti is limited to Lord as separate from oneself. If you take V- > > Adwaita, > > > then, it is Jnana that I am a part of the Lord and therefore > > Bhakti is of > > > the same nature. Similarly of Adwaita. Where is the difference > > between the > > > two? > > > It is unnecessary to bring Dwaita, V-Adwaita and Adwaita > > differences here. > > > > > > Bhakti does not mean no thinking. No love can come without > > understanding. No > > > understanding can be complete without Bhakti. > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > Thanks for your enlightening views.My concept of understanding is > > > > based on(Visishta) Dwaitha principles .As far as my personal > > view is > > > > concerned the ultimate result(undersanding) is Adwaithic state > > > > that "the other is not separate from me" comes through the path > > of > > > > dwaitha only. > > > > > > > > Internally (as many of us perhaps) I thought and thought about > > the > > > > ultimate truth through Dwaitic concepts as well as Adwaitic > > concepts > > > > and found that both are true in part and something more has to > > come > > > > to view them in combination to know the ultimate truth.This is > > > > nothing but Jnana marga.Whereas in Bhakti state this question is > > > > gradually(or instantaneoulsly) receding and becoming > > thoughtless/and > > > > immaterial. > > > > > > > > Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > Can you have Bhakti without understanding of the same? > > > > > > > > > > There is no two, Jnana and Bhakti are the same. > > > > > > > > > > "Atmanastu Kaamaya Sarvam Priyam Bhavati" - Brihadaryanka > > > > Upanishad. This > > > > > verse has the definitions of love and Bhakti in it and also of > > > > Jnana. I am > > > > > just giving hints here. > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti is loosely translated as "Divine Love". What is Love? - > > An > > > > > understanding that the other is not separate from me, which is > > > > nothing but > > > > > Jnana. > > > > > > > > > > It is an error to treat them separately. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice question,please let me share my little understanding of > > > > these > > > > > > divine concepts in few lines. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti doesn't need mode of language for communication with > > the > > > > > > Divine,It's simply LOVE(LOOSING ONES VERY EXISTENCE) by > > > > > > concentrating on God.It also doesn't need any interlocutor > > for > > > > > > understanding God.It's mostly instantaneous in formation and > > > > > > continues without any means of communication or > > interlocutors in > > > > > > between soul and the Divine. > > > > > > > > > > > > Whereas gyan is mostly percieved through senses in first > > stage > > > > and > > > > > > progresses with/without crutches of means of communication > > and > > > > > > interlocutors. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Goal and ultimate destination of both is the same viz > > > > > > realisation of Divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind request for Gurujis to evaluate of my understanding and > > > > correct > > > > > > the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- > > astrology- > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > Terms of > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > astrology</gads? > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > horoscope</gads? > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > software</gads? > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > - > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- astrology- > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > - Terms of > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB NeEg> Vedic > > astrology</gads? t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI dnHA> Astrology > > horoscope</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > software</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt 6iLuaCw> > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- astrology<vedic astrology>" > > on the web. > > > > - > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology- ?subject=Un> > > > > - Terms of > > Service <>. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Namaskar Bharatji, I wrote a lengthy mail to you, posted it on the group but looks like it didn't get posted Anyway, your explanation is really beautiful... "Intellectual understanding is not Jnana. For example- for me to say All is Brahman, you may appreciate it intellectually, but, may not realize the enormity of this statement. The understanding can only come through surrender. And what is surrender - Bhakti! " If we just forget the word games then would I be incorrect in saying that it is realization that you are talking about? Wow! then actually both of us are talking about the same thing :) In Hindi can I call realization as "anubhuti"? Beautiful...I couldnot agree more with you on the fact that anubhuti is the factor and the only factor for bhakti. What fool was I to think that Jnana was knowledge. I actually differentiated between anubhuti and jnana. I thought the former to be so much feeling and inner cry and later to be knowledge, intellectuality, logic, arguments etc. If you were referring to anubhuti as jnana from the first place, I am so sorry to have continued his debate. I agree 100% that fools rush where angles fear to tread (provided that the fools have anubhuti ) You may call this jnana and I may call this anubhuti, we may also debate that both are same or both are not but truth remains what it is irrespective of us I now understand that why rishis kept mauna, why go into words when anubhuti is enough to realize the truth in the marga of bhakti! Regards, Souvik vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology wrote: > > Namaskaar Sri Souvik > > I have given the reply to Sri Lakshmi and that is for you too. Just one > interesting thing - > > You wrote: "No Jnana but perfectly understands love." > > , I hope you get the hint. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > > > > On 3/17/06, Souvik Dutta <explore_vulcan wrote: > > > > Oops sorry I meant to address Bharatji! :) > > > > Bharatji, > > > > Lets take another simple example. > > > > A 12-18th. months old child. You will definitely agree that child has > > almost no jnana at that stage. > > > > When that child cries and no one can stop him/her, the mother takes the > > child in her arms and showers love and affection. I would also consider this > > as a form of bhakti. > > > > The child keeps quite. > > > > No Jnana but perfectly understands love. > > > > Regards, > > > > Souvik > > > > > > > > Souvik Dutta <explore_vulcan wrote: > > Dear Srinivasji, > > > > There are human understandings that is very complete without bhakti. > > Bhakti has nothing to do there. Mathematics, Physics, Nyaya, the list is > > endless. > > There can be love with absolutely no understanding as to why it is > > there. Looks like you haven't fallen in love in your life! :) > > > > Regards, > > Souvik > > > > > > Mail > > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > > > > > > > > Mail > > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB NeEg> Vedic > > astrology</gads? t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI dnHA> Astrology > > horoscope</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > software</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt 6iLuaCw> > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- astrology<vedic astrology>" > > on the web. > > > > - > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology- ?subject=Un> > > > > - Terms of > > Service <>. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Namaskaar Sri Arjun Karma is born out of the binding and cannot be the cause of Realization. That one is Brahman is already achieved and does not require any karma to fulfill it. It is only a question of realizing it. Then, what use is of Karma? To come out of the cycle of Karma, Yoga is prescribed. Now what is Karma Yoga? - Performance of your Obligatory Duty is Karma Yoga - This means doing Karma such that no further karma gets generated and mind is bereft of worries and anxieties. Mind in that state is ready for Pramana - which is the Vedanta. You can further ask - How through Karma Yoga no further mental aberrations take place? - Because Karma Yoga means performance of your duties without any respect for your likes and dislikes. What are likes and dislikes - The Dwandhas!! The definition of obligatory duties is given in many texts including Srimad Bhagavad Gita. Karma Yoga hence, is only a preparation for the mind and not to be confused with actual Jnana. Bhakti and Jnana are same and supreme. Bhakti and Jnana have no relation to physical strength. To say people bereft of mental strength follow Bhakti is an erroneous conclusion. Again I repeat, only the bravest of the brave are Bhaktas and Jnanis. Thanks and Regards Bharat On 3/18/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear bharat ji > > as you rightly observed, all these three margas viz. karma, bhakti > and jnana are all inexplicably intertwined. for any person who > marches sincerely on any of these three paths, the destination or > realisation is the same. > > since each person has his or her own constitution of elements, > different moral, psychological and spiritual needs and each > individual having different idiosyncracies and antagonisms, based on > these differences, people choose these three different paths. all > paths lead to same destination only and no path is inferior or > superior to the other. > > however, in my understanding karma marga in which an individual does > self-less service is the best followed by jnana marga where the > person spreads the light of knowledge and the bhakti marga is meant > for those who have no physcial or mental strength to march on karma > and jnana margas. > > with best wishes and regards > pandit arjun > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > <hinduastrology wrote: > > > > Namaskaar Sri Lakshmi > > > > You cannot be a Jnani without having Bhakti or vice versa. I can > explain > > this but neither you nor Sri Souvik are going to be satisfied. > This is best > > seen within oneself. For enabling the same, let me leave some > pointers: > > > > Intellectual understanding is not Jnana. For example- for me to > say All is > > Brahman, you may appreciate it intellectually, but, may not > realize the > > enormity of this statement. The understanding can only come through > > surrender. And what is surrender - Bhakti! > > > > Now look at the opposite - Bhakti is surrender - Can it come > without Jnana > > that All is the Lord. What did Sri Ramakrishna see - Ma within and > without - > > He was the greatest Jnani. Same with Sri Hanuman. Sri Ramana > Maharishi was a > > greatest Bhakta - he surrendered to Lord of Death. > > > > The measure of a person's spirituality is by the enormity of > reactions he > > has to his environment. The person who is a bhakta - surrenders and > > therefore, does not react. Whenever people see a "Jnani" reacting - > it means > > he is not a Jnani. These are not two paths either. It is the same > cognition > > or recognition. To consider them separate from each other is a > mistake. > > > > Spirituality is for the bravest of the brave and not meant for > those running > > away from life. The process of cognition of Vedic principles is - > Study - > > Questioning - Intellectual understanding (to those lacking the > same must > > perform obligatory duties - karma Yoga) - developing Faith (not > blind > > belief) - Taking risk from stepping out of self imposed > limitations - > > getting signals from Nature - gentle reminders of divinity around - > ...... > > > > I will end now or else another lesson from Bhagavad Gita and the > Upanishads > > might have to start. I leave both of you to believe what you would > like to. > > It is neither my duty nor my desire to change your views but a > hope that you > > will realize this huge principle. > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, B Lakshmi Ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Bharat ji, > > > > > > My understanding, based on my limited reading, is that Jnana & > > > Bhakti are like markata kishora nyaaya and maarjaala kishora > nyaya > > > respectively. in markata kishora nyaya, the responsibility of > safely > > > clinging to mother during a transit is on the baby monkey...a > jnani > > > is like that. whereas in the case of bhakti, the devotee is like > the > > > kitten, he is safely held by the mother. There's a risk of the > > > jnani, losing hold on Mother (God) and falling, like the baby > monkey > > > sometimes does because of its own confusions and inadequacies, > but > > > in the case of the kitten, the Mother itself takes care. > Likewise, > > > Bhagavan Himself takes care of the bhakta. > > > > > > I always felt that both are necessary for reaching God and i take > > > the support of Maha Bharata in this. Bhishma pitamaha was a great > > > jnani, yet, in the final moments of his life he recited Vishnu > > > Sahasranaamam, which marked the high point of devotion. Arjuna > was a > > > great sakha and bhakta of Krishna, yet toards the end the Lord > makes > > > sure that he acquires sufficient jnana also by personally > teaching > > > him in the form of Bhagavad gita. > > > > > > I feel, that one must have jnana, which is bhakti in action, 2nd > > > house being the 10th house from 5th house...in the list of gyana > > > yogas given by Dr. Raman 2nd house/lord has great importance... > > > while bhakti must remain at the heart of jnana (5th house being > 4th > > > from 2nd). > > > > > > Please correct my mistakes. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > You can take any view, the definition of Bhakti and Jnana > cannot > > > change. If > > > > you take Dwaita - it is Jnana that I and lord are separate and > > > therefore > > > > Bhakti is limited to Lord as separate from oneself. If you > take V- > > > Adwaita, > > > > then, it is Jnana that I am a part of the Lord and therefore > > > Bhakti is of > > > > the same nature. Similarly of Adwaita. Where is the difference > > > between the > > > > two? > > > > It is unnecessary to bring Dwaita, V-Adwaita and Adwaita > > > differences here. > > > > > > > > Bhakti does not mean no thinking. No love can come without > > > understanding. No > > > > understanding can be complete without Bhakti. > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > Thanks for your enlightening views.My concept of > understanding is > > > > > based on(Visishta) Dwaitha principles .As far as my personal > > > view is > > > > > concerned the ultimate result(undersanding) is Adwaithic > state > > > > > that "the other is not separate from me" comes through the > path > > > of > > > > > dwaitha only. > > > > > > > > > > Internally (as many of us perhaps) I thought and thought > about > > > the > > > > > ultimate truth through Dwaitic concepts as well as Adwaitic > > > concepts > > > > > and found that both are true in part and something more has > to > > > come > > > > > to view them in combination to know the ultimate truth.This > is > > > > > nothing but Jnana marga.Whereas in Bhakti state this > question is > > > > > gradually(or instantaneoulsly) receding and becoming > > > thoughtless/and > > > > > immaterial. > > > > > > > > > > Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu > Astrology" > > > > > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you have Bhakti without understanding of the same? > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no two, Jnana and Bhakti are the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Atmanastu Kaamaya Sarvam Priyam Bhavati" - Brihadaryanka > > > > > Upanishad. This > > > > > > verse has the definitions of love and Bhakti in it and > also of > > > > > Jnana. I am > > > > > > just giving hints here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti is loosely translated as "Divine Love". What is > Love? - > > > An > > > > > > understanding that the other is not separate from me, > which is > > > > > nothing but > > > > > > Jnana. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is an error to treat them separately. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice question,please let me share my little > understanding of > > > > > these > > > > > > > divine concepts in few lines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti doesn't need mode of language for communication > with > > > the > > > > > > > Divine,It's simply LOVE(LOOSING ONES VERY EXISTENCE) by > > > > > > > concentrating on God.It also doesn't need any > interlocutor > > > for > > > > > > > understanding God.It's mostly instantaneous in formation > and > > > > > > > continues without any means of communication or > > > interlocutors in > > > > > > > between soul and the Divine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whereas gyan is mostly percieved through senses in first > > > stage > > > > > and > > > > > > > progresses with/without crutches of means of > communication > > > and > > > > > > > interlocutors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Goal and ultimate destination of both is the same > viz > > > > > > > realisation of Divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind request for Gurujis to evaluate of my understanding > and > > > > > correct > > > > > > > the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- > > > astrology- > > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > Terms of > > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > > astrology</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > > horoscope</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > software</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- > astrology- > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > - > Terms of > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > NeEg> Vedic > > > astrology</gads? > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > dnHA> Astrology > > > horoscope</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > software</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > 6iLuaCw> > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > on the web. > > > > > > - > > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology- > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > - Terms of > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=\ Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Uokti\ PHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart\ &w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=q\ NtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+c\ hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.s\ ig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+cha\ rt&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig\ =Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > ------------------------------ > > > > - Visit your group "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > on the web. > > - > vedic astrology<vedic astrology-@gro\ ups.com?subject=Un> > > - Terms of > Service <>. > > > ------------------------------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Bharat ji, I am sure that you have not read the second paragraph i'd written carefully, because I was also talking about Bhakti and jnana being complementary and how God Himself leads one to this balanced approach. Whichever path we adopt, jnana yoga or bhakti yoga, it involves relationship or yoga between two entities, Paramatma and jeevatma. In pure jnana the emphasis is on "I" or "aham" while in Bhakti, the emphasis shifts to "You". Sage Bhrigu was without any doubt a great jnani, but until Lord Vishnu pierced his aham-bhava, by puncturing the eye in sage Bhrigu's foot, Sage bhrigu was not touched by true bhakti, because the hall mark of bhakti is humility, surrender. Infact that moment of debility was the moment when Bhrigu truly became an exalted maharshi. I am sure that when Dhruva undertook a great penance, he was not a jnani, e was a typical child hungering for nothing greater than his father's love. when Kalidasa adamantly refused to let Mother pass, he was not a jnani, he was an ordinary soul in search of an identity. They were not aware of the omnipotence of God, they were aware of only their tiny, very specific human desires....and they set out to satisfy them through faith, because of their poorva janma sukritam. But what mattered was that both Dhruva and Kalidasa had immense faith,belief and tenacity of purpose. They took a step towards God and He turned towards them and the rest is history. ofcourse great jnana also followed...because when the Almighty turns towards us and touches us, our imperfections cease...He makes us Whole. I think what ultimately matters is "anubhuti" as Souvik ji had beautifully explained. Perhaps, it is to experience that "anubhuti" alone that all the rishis and yogis were born as Gopis of Gokulam!! Though you have no desire to correct/teach, I have a great desire to learn, so learn i will, anyway:--)) Regards, Lakshmi vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology wrote: > > Namaskaar Sri Lakshmi > > You cannot be a Jnani without having Bhakti or vice versa. I can explain > this but neither you nor Sri Souvik are going to be satisfied. This is best > seen within oneself. For enabling the same, let me leave some pointers: > > Intellectual understanding is not Jnana. For example- for me to say All is > Brahman, you may appreciate it intellectually, but, may not realize the > enormity of this statement. The understanding can only come through > surrender. And what is surrender - Bhakti! > > Now look at the opposite - Bhakti is surrender - Can it come without Jnana > that All is the Lord. What did Sri Ramakrishna see - Ma within and without - > He was the greatest Jnani. Same with Sri Hanuman. Sri Ramana Maharishi was a > greatest Bhakta - he surrendered to Lord of Death. > > The measure of a person's spirituality is by the enormity of reactions he > has to his environment. The person who is a bhakta - surrenders and > therefore, does not react. Whenever people see a "Jnani" reacting - it means > he is not a Jnani. These are not two paths either. It is the same cognition > or recognition. To consider them separate from each other is a mistake. > > Spirituality is for the bravest of the brave and not meant for those running > away from life. The process of cognition of Vedic principles is - Study - > Questioning - Intellectual understanding (to those lacking the same must > perform obligatory duties - karma Yoga) - developing Faith (not blind > belief) - Taking risk from stepping out of self imposed limitations - > getting signals from Nature - gentle reminders of divinity around - ...... > > I will end now or else another lesson from Bhagavad Gita and the Upanishads > might have to start. I leave both of you to believe what you would like to. > It is neither my duty nor my desire to change your views but a hope that you > will realize this huge principle. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > > > > On 3/17/06, B Lakshmi Ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Bharat ji, > > > > My understanding, based on my limited reading, is that Jnana & > > Bhakti are like markata kishora nyaaya and maarjaala kishora nyaya > > respectively. in markata kishora nyaya, the responsibility of safely > > clinging to mother during a transit is on the baby monkey...a jnani > > is like that. whereas in the case of bhakti, the devotee is like the > > kitten, he is safely held by the mother. There's a risk of the > > jnani, losing hold on Mother (God) and falling, like the baby monkey > > sometimes does because of its own confusions and inadequacies, but > > in the case of the kitten, the Mother itself takes care. Likewise, > > Bhagavan Himself takes care of the bhakta. > > > > I always felt that both are necessary for reaching God and i take > > the support of Maha Bharata in this. Bhishma pitamaha was a great > > jnani, yet, in the final moments of his life he recited Vishnu > > Sahasranaamam, which marked the high point of devotion. Arjuna was a > > great sakha and bhakta of Krishna, yet toards the end the Lord makes > > sure that he acquires sufficient jnana also by personally teaching > > him in the form of Bhagavad gita. > > > > I feel, that one must have jnana, which is bhakti in action, 2nd > > house being the 10th house from 5th house...in the list of gyana > > yogas given by Dr. Raman 2nd house/lord has great importance... > > while bhakti must remain at the heart of jnana (5th house being 4th > > from 2nd). > > > > Please correct my mistakes. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > You can take any view, the definition of Bhakti and Jnana cannot > > change. If > > > you take Dwaita - it is Jnana that I and lord are separate and > > therefore > > > Bhakti is limited to Lord as separate from oneself. If you take V- > > Adwaita, > > > then, it is Jnana that I am a part of the Lord and therefore > > Bhakti is of > > > the same nature. Similarly of Adwaita. Where is the difference > > between the > > > two? > > > It is unnecessary to bring Dwaita, V-Adwaita and Adwaita > > differences here. > > > > > > Bhakti does not mean no thinking. No love can come without > > understanding. No > > > understanding can be complete without Bhakti. > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > Thanks for your enlightening views.My concept of understanding is > > > > based on(Visishta) Dwaitha principles .As far as my personal > > view is > > > > concerned the ultimate result(undersanding) is Adwaithic state > > > > that "the other is not separate from me" comes through the path > > of > > > > dwaitha only. > > > > > > > > Internally (as many of us perhaps) I thought and thought about > > the > > > > ultimate truth through Dwaitic concepts as well as Adwaitic > > concepts > > > > and found that both are true in part and something more has to > > come > > > > to view them in combination to know the ultimate truth.This is > > > > nothing but Jnana marga.Whereas in Bhakti state this question is > > > > gradually(or instantaneoulsly) receding and becoming > > thoughtless/and > > > > immaterial. > > > > > > > > Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > Can you have Bhakti without understanding of the same? > > > > > > > > > > There is no two, Jnana and Bhakti are the same. > > > > > > > > > > "Atmanastu Kaamaya Sarvam Priyam Bhavati" - Brihadaryanka > > > > Upanishad. This > > > > > verse has the definitions of love and Bhakti in it and also of > > > > Jnana. I am > > > > > just giving hints here. > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti is loosely translated as "Divine Love". What is Love? - > > An > > > > > understanding that the other is not separate from me, which is > > > > nothing but > > > > > Jnana. > > > > > > > > > > It is an error to treat them separately. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice question,please let me share my little understanding of > > > > these > > > > > > divine concepts in few lines. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti doesn't need mode of language for communication with > > the > > > > > > Divine,It's simply LOVE(LOOSING ONES VERY EXISTENCE) by > > > > > > concentrating on God.It also doesn't need any interlocutor > > for > > > > > > understanding God.It's mostly instantaneous in formation and > > > > > > continues without any means of communication or > > interlocutors in > > > > > > between soul and the Divine. > > > > > > > > > > > > Whereas gyan is mostly percieved through senses in first > > stage > > > > and > > > > > > progresses with/without crutches of means of communication > > and > > > > > > interlocutors. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Goal and ultimate destination of both is the same viz > > > > > > realisation of Divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind request for Gurujis to evaluate of my understanding and > > > > correct > > > > > > the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- > > astrology- > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > Terms of > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > astrology</gads? > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > horoscope</gads? > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > software</gads? > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > - > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- astrology- > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > - Terms of > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB NeEg> Vedic > > astrology</gads? t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI dnHA> Astrology > > horoscope</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > software</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt 6iLuaCw> > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- astrology<vedic astrology>" > > on the web. > > > > - > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology- ?subject=Un> > > > > - Terms of > > Service <>. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Namaskaar Sri Souvik I am so sorry, I did not read that mail and shall read it now. Change Anubhuti to Aparokshanubhuti (This is the word Sri Sankara has used too). Thanks and Regards Bharat On 3/18/06, Souvik Dutta <explore_vulcan wrote: > > Namaskar Bharatji, > > I wrote a lengthy mail to you, posted it on the group but looks like > it didn't get posted > > Anyway, your explanation is really beautiful... > "Intellectual understanding is not Jnana. For example- for me to say > All is Brahman, you may appreciate it intellectually, but, may not > realize the enormity of this statement. The understanding can only > come through surrender. And what is surrender - Bhakti! > " > > If we just forget the word games then would I be incorrect in saying > that it is realization that you are talking about? > > Wow! then actually both of us are talking about the same thing :) > > In Hindi can I call realization as "anubhuti"? > > Beautiful...I couldnot agree more with you on the fact that anubhuti > is the factor and the only factor for bhakti. > > What fool was I to think that Jnana was knowledge. I actually > differentiated between anubhuti and jnana. I thought the former to > be so much feeling and inner cry and later to be knowledge, > intellectuality, logic, arguments etc. > > If you were referring to anubhuti as jnana from the first place, I > am so sorry to have continued his debate. I agree 100% that fools > rush where angles fear to tread (provided that the fools have > anubhuti ) > > You may call this jnana and I may call this anubhuti, we may also > debate that both are same or both are not but truth remains what it > is irrespective of us > > I now understand that why rishis kept mauna, why go into words when > anubhuti is enough to realize the truth in the marga of bhakti! > > Regards, > > Souvik > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > <hinduastrology wrote: > > > > Namaskaar Sri Souvik > > > > I have given the reply to Sri Lakshmi and that is for you too. > Just one > > interesting thing - > > > > You wrote: "No Jnana but perfectly understands love." > > > > , I hope you get the hint. > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, Souvik Dutta <explore_vulcan wrote: > > > > > > Oops sorry I meant to address Bharatji! :) > > > > > > Bharatji, > > > > > > Lets take another simple example. > > > > > > A 12-18th. months old child. You will definitely agree that > child has > > > almost no jnana at that stage. > > > > > > When that child cries and no one can stop him/her, the mother > takes the > > > child in her arms and showers love and affection. I would also > consider this > > > as a form of bhakti. > > > > > > The child keeps quite. > > > > > > No Jnana but perfectly understands love. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Souvik > > > > > > > > > > > > Souvik Dutta <explore_vulcan wrote: > > > Dear Srinivasji, > > > > > > There are human understandings that is very complete without > bhakti. > > > Bhakti has nothing to do there. Mathematics, Physics, Nyaya, the > list is > > > endless. > > > There can be love with absolutely no understanding as to why > it is > > > there. Looks like you haven't fallen in love in your life! :) > > > > > > Regards, > > > Souvik > > > > > > > > > Mail > > > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail > > > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > NeEg> Vedic > > > astrology</gads? > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > dnHA> Astrology > > > horoscope</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > software</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > 6iLuaCw> > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > on the web. > > > > > > - > > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology- > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > - Terms of > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=\ Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Uokti\ PHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart\ &w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=q\ NtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+c\ hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.s\ ig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+cha\ rt&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig\ =Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > ------------------------------ > > > > - Visit your group "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > on the web. > > - > vedic astrology<vedic astrology-@gro\ ups.com?subject=Un> > > - Terms of > Service <>. > > > ------------------------------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Namaskaar Sri Lakshmi Ramesh I did read the paragraph and yet wrote the previous email. See, if you consider yourself as an individual separate from the lord, then, the understanding of this fact leads to only that much Bhakti. Similarly at other understanding of you and the lord relationship. The emphasis is not "You" - This is beautifully explained in this verse of Sri Yagnavalka in Brihadaryanka Upanishad - "Atmanastu Sarvam Priyam Bhavati" - whatever is done by any person it is for oneself. The question is how does the individual define "oneself"! (This verse has huge implications but I am using it in very simple terms) Bhakti is Surrender. Why do you surrender and what do you surrender? Think and the answer will help you remove the distinction between the two. "Though you have no desire to correct/teach, I have a great desire to learn, so learn i will, anyway:--))" Absolutely Right! My best wishes for this very fascinating journey where the subject and object is You! Thanks and Regards Bharat On 3/18/06, B Lakshmi Ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Bharat ji, > > I am sure that you have not read the second paragraph i'd written > carefully, because I was also talking about Bhakti and jnana being > complementary and how God Himself leads one to this balanced > approach. Whichever path we adopt, jnana yoga or bhakti yoga, it > involves relationship or yoga between two entities, Paramatma and > jeevatma. In pure jnana the emphasis is on "I" or "aham" while in > Bhakti, the emphasis shifts to "You". > > Sage Bhrigu was without any doubt a great jnani, but until Lord > Vishnu pierced his aham-bhava, by puncturing the eye in sage > Bhrigu's foot, Sage bhrigu was not touched by true bhakti, because > the hall mark of bhakti is humility, surrender. Infact that moment > of debility was the moment when Bhrigu truly became an exalted > maharshi. > > I am sure that when Dhruva undertook a great penance, he was not a > jnani, e was a typical child hungering for nothing greater than his > father's love. when Kalidasa adamantly refused to let Mother pass, > he was not a jnani, he was an ordinary soul in search of an > identity. They were not aware of the omnipotence of God, they were > aware of only their tiny, very specific human desires....and they > set out to satisfy them through faith, because of their poorva janma > sukritam. > > But what mattered was that both Dhruva and Kalidasa had immense > faith,belief and tenacity of purpose. They took a step towards God > and He turned towards them and the rest is history. ofcourse great > jnana also followed...because when the Almighty turns towards us and > touches us, our imperfections cease...He makes us Whole. > > I think what ultimately matters is "anubhuti" as Souvik ji had > beautifully explained. Perhaps, it is to experience that "anubhuti" > alone that all the rishis and yogis were born as Gopis of Gokulam!! > > Though you have no desire to correct/teach, I have a great desire to > learn, so learn i will, anyway:--)) > > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > <hinduastrology wrote: > > > > Namaskaar Sri Lakshmi > > > > You cannot be a Jnani without having Bhakti or vice versa. I can > explain > > this but neither you nor Sri Souvik are going to be satisfied. > This is best > > seen within oneself. For enabling the same, let me leave some > pointers: > > > > Intellectual understanding is not Jnana. For example- for me to > say All is > > Brahman, you may appreciate it intellectually, but, may not > realize the > > enormity of this statement. The understanding can only come through > > surrender. And what is surrender - Bhakti! > > > > Now look at the opposite - Bhakti is surrender - Can it come > without Jnana > > that All is the Lord. What did Sri Ramakrishna see - Ma within and > without - > > He was the greatest Jnani. Same with Sri Hanuman. Sri Ramana > Maharishi was a > > greatest Bhakta - he surrendered to Lord of Death. > > > > The measure of a person's spirituality is by the enormity of > reactions he > > has to his environment. The person who is a bhakta - surrenders and > > therefore, does not react. Whenever people see a "Jnani" reacting - > it means > > he is not a Jnani. These are not two paths either. It is the same > cognition > > or recognition. To consider them separate from each other is a > mistake. > > > > Spirituality is for the bravest of the brave and not meant for > those running > > away from life. The process of cognition of Vedic principles is - > Study - > > Questioning - Intellectual understanding (to those lacking the > same must > > perform obligatory duties - karma Yoga) - developing Faith (not > blind > > belief) - Taking risk from stepping out of self imposed > limitations - > > getting signals from Nature - gentle reminders of divinity around - > ...... > > > > I will end now or else another lesson from Bhagavad Gita and the > Upanishads > > might have to start. I leave both of you to believe what you would > like to. > > It is neither my duty nor my desire to change your views but a > hope that you > > will realize this huge principle. > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, B Lakshmi Ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Bharat ji, > > > > > > My understanding, based on my limited reading, is that Jnana & > > > Bhakti are like markata kishora nyaaya and maarjaala kishora > nyaya > > > respectively. in markata kishora nyaya, the responsibility of > safely > > > clinging to mother during a transit is on the baby monkey...a > jnani > > > is like that. whereas in the case of bhakti, the devotee is like > the > > > kitten, he is safely held by the mother. There's a risk of the > > > jnani, losing hold on Mother (God) and falling, like the baby > monkey > > > sometimes does because of its own confusions and inadequacies, > but > > > in the case of the kitten, the Mother itself takes care. > Likewise, > > > Bhagavan Himself takes care of the bhakta. > > > > > > I always felt that both are necessary for reaching God and i take > > > the support of Maha Bharata in this. Bhishma pitamaha was a great > > > jnani, yet, in the final moments of his life he recited Vishnu > > > Sahasranaamam, which marked the high point of devotion. Arjuna > was a > > > great sakha and bhakta of Krishna, yet toards the end the Lord > makes > > > sure that he acquires sufficient jnana also by personally > teaching > > > him in the form of Bhagavad gita. > > > > > > I feel, that one must have jnana, which is bhakti in action, 2nd > > > house being the 10th house from 5th house...in the list of gyana > > > yogas given by Dr. Raman 2nd house/lord has great importance... > > > while bhakti must remain at the heart of jnana (5th house being > 4th > > > from 2nd). > > > > > > Please correct my mistakes. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > You can take any view, the definition of Bhakti and Jnana > cannot > > > change. If > > > > you take Dwaita - it is Jnana that I and lord are separate and > > > therefore > > > > Bhakti is limited to Lord as separate from oneself. If you > take V- > > > Adwaita, > > > > then, it is Jnana that I am a part of the Lord and therefore > > > Bhakti is of > > > > the same nature. Similarly of Adwaita. Where is the difference > > > between the > > > > two? > > > > It is unnecessary to bring Dwaita, V-Adwaita and Adwaita > > > differences here. > > > > > > > > Bhakti does not mean no thinking. No love can come without > > > understanding. No > > > > understanding can be complete without Bhakti. > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > Thanks for your enlightening views.My concept of > understanding is > > > > > based on(Visishta) Dwaitha principles .As far as my personal > > > view is > > > > > concerned the ultimate result(undersanding) is Adwaithic > state > > > > > that "the other is not separate from me" comes through the > path > > > of > > > > > dwaitha only. > > > > > > > > > > Internally (as many of us perhaps) I thought and thought > about > > > the > > > > > ultimate truth through Dwaitic concepts as well as Adwaitic > > > concepts > > > > > and found that both are true in part and something more has > to > > > come > > > > > to view them in combination to know the ultimate truth.This > is > > > > > nothing but Jnana marga.Whereas in Bhakti state this > question is > > > > > gradually(or instantaneoulsly) receding and becoming > > > thoughtless/and > > > > > immaterial. > > > > > > > > > > Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu > Astrology" > > > > > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you have Bhakti without understanding of the same? > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no two, Jnana and Bhakti are the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Atmanastu Kaamaya Sarvam Priyam Bhavati" - Brihadaryanka > > > > > Upanishad. This > > > > > > verse has the definitions of love and Bhakti in it and > also of > > > > > Jnana. I am > > > > > > just giving hints here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti is loosely translated as "Divine Love". What is > Love? - > > > An > > > > > > understanding that the other is not separate from me, > which is > > > > > nothing but > > > > > > Jnana. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is an error to treat them separately. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice question,please let me share my little > understanding of > > > > > these > > > > > > > divine concepts in few lines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti doesn't need mode of language for communication > with > > > the > > > > > > > Divine,It's simply LOVE(LOOSING ONES VERY EXISTENCE) by > > > > > > > concentrating on God.It also doesn't need any > interlocutor > > > for > > > > > > > understanding God.It's mostly instantaneous in formation > and > > > > > > > continues without any means of communication or > > > interlocutors in > > > > > > > between soul and the Divine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whereas gyan is mostly percieved through senses in first > > > stage > > > > > and > > > > > > > progresses with/without crutches of means of > communication > > > and > > > > > > > interlocutors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Goal and ultimate destination of both is the same > viz > > > > > > > realisation of Divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind request for Gurujis to evaluate of my understanding > and > > > > > correct > > > > > > > the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- > > > astrology- > > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > Terms of > > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > > astrology</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > > horoscope</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > software</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- > astrology- > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > - > Terms of > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > NeEg> Vedic > > > astrology</gads? > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > dnHA> Astrology > > > horoscope</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > software</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > 6iLuaCw> > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > on the web. > > > > > > - > > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology- > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > - Terms of > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=\ Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Uokti\ PHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart\ &w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=q\ NtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+c\ hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.s\ ig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+cha\ rt&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig\ =Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > ------------------------------ > > > > - Visit your group "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > on the web. > > - > vedic astrology<vedic astrology-@gro\ ups.com?subject=Un> > > - Terms of > Service <>. > > > ------------------------------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Dear Ramesh, well said. Bhagavad gita talks of three paths - Karma, Bhakti and jnana- to reach the Ultimate. In Karma yoga, you are not aware of the Lord but you do what you are supposed to do with fervour and commitment. Abu Ben Adam, a great social worker, has woke up midnight to find an angel in his room. She was writing something very seriously. Abu has approached her with lot of devotion and asked her what was she writing. she replied,'My child, I am writing the names of persons who loved god' Abu has asked her immediately where does his name figure, because he has never talked of god nor did he ever go to worship the Almighty. Goddess made a search of the book to reply him,'Alas, your name does not figure here, for you seem to be an atheist" Abu with the least disppointment took the reply. After few days, again Abu was woken up to find the same Angel writing again Abu has approached her and said' It looks as if your work is not completed" "Now I am writing the names of the persons loved by God' she has replied. Abu has asked her who are the people figuring in it from his town, since he knows a lot of worhsippers who pray to Lord regularly. The Angel has replied him, " my dear child, there is only one name from your town and it tops the list" Abu was curious now. He asked her 'pray tell me who is that fortunate person since I know many worhsippers and I am not able to decide who could be that person whom the lord has love for?" Now the Angel has replied so very sweetly ' My child, the person who the Lord loves so very fervantly that he tops the list is none other than your own self. For, God loves those who serve his people" Service to mankind is to service to God, This is specifically reflected in the remedies of the astrology, when we suggest remedies which involves help and service to the needy. Jnana involves knowing the God by Intellect. Bhakti involves knowing the Lord through the Heart. Kishore patnaik vedic astrology, "B Lakshmi Ramesh" <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Bharat ji, > > I am sure that you have not read the second paragraph i'd written > carefully, because I was also talking about Bhakti and jnana being > complementary and how God Himself leads one to this balanced > approach. Whichever path we adopt, jnana yoga or bhakti yoga, it > involves relationship or yoga between two entities, Paramatma and > jeevatma. In pure jnana the emphasis is on "I" or "aham" while in > Bhakti, the emphasis shifts to "You". > > Sage Bhrigu was without any doubt a great jnani, but until Lord > Vishnu pierced his aham-bhava, by puncturing the eye in sage > Bhrigu's foot, Sage bhrigu was not touched by true bhakti, because > the hall mark of bhakti is humility, surrender. Infact that moment > of debility was the moment when Bhrigu truly became an exalted > maharshi. > > I am sure that when Dhruva undertook a great penance, he was not a > jnani, e was a typical child hungering for nothing greater than his > father's love. when Kalidasa adamantly refused to let Mother pass, > he was not a jnani, he was an ordinary soul in search of an > identity. They were not aware of the omnipotence of God, they were > aware of only their tiny, very specific human desires....and they > set out to satisfy them through faith, because of their poorva janma > sukritam. > > But what mattered was that both Dhruva and Kalidasa had immense > faith,belief and tenacity of purpose. They took a step towards God > and He turned towards them and the rest is history. ofcourse great > jnana also followed...because when the Almighty turns towards us and > touches us, our imperfections cease...He makes us Whole. > > I think what ultimately matters is "anubhuti" as Souvik ji had > beautifully explained. Perhaps, it is to experience that "anubhuti" > alone that all the rishis and yogis were born as Gopis of Gokulam!! > > Though you have no desire to correct/teach, I have a great desire to > learn, so learn i will, anyway:--)) > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > Namaskaar Sri Lakshmi > > > > You cannot be a Jnani without having Bhakti or vice versa. I can > explain > > this but neither you nor Sri Souvik are going to be satisfied. > This is best > > seen within oneself. For enabling the same, let me leave some > pointers: > > > > Intellectual understanding is not Jnana. For example- for me to > say All is > > Brahman, you may appreciate it intellectually, but, may not > realize the > > enormity of this statement. The understanding can only come through > > surrender. And what is surrender - Bhakti! > > > > Now look at the opposite - Bhakti is surrender - Can it come > without Jnana > > that All is the Lord. What did Sri Ramakrishna see - Ma within and > without - > > He was the greatest Jnani. Same with Sri Hanuman. Sri Ramana > Maharishi was a > > greatest Bhakta - he surrendered to Lord of Death. > > > > The measure of a person's spirituality is by the enormity of > reactions he > > has to his environment. The person who is a bhakta - surrenders and > > therefore, does not react. Whenever people see a "Jnani" reacting - > it means > > he is not a Jnani. These are not two paths either. It is the same > cognition > > or recognition. To consider them separate from each other is a > mistake. > > > > Spirituality is for the bravest of the brave and not meant for > those running > > away from life. The process of cognition of Vedic principles is - > Study - > > Questioning - Intellectual understanding (to those lacking the > same must > > perform obligatory duties - karma Yoga) - developing Faith (not > blind > > belief) - Taking risk from stepping out of self imposed > limitations - > > getting signals from Nature - gentle reminders of divinity around - > ...... > > > > I will end now or else another lesson from Bhagavad Gita and the > Upanishads > > might have to start. I leave both of you to believe what you would > like to. > > It is neither my duty nor my desire to change your views but a > hope that you > > will realize this huge principle. > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, B Lakshmi Ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Bharat ji, > > > > > > My understanding, based on my limited reading, is that Jnana & > > > Bhakti are like markata kishora nyaaya and maarjaala kishora > nyaya > > > respectively. in markata kishora nyaya, the responsibility of > safely > > > clinging to mother during a transit is on the baby monkey...a > jnani > > > is like that. whereas in the case of bhakti, the devotee is like > the > > > kitten, he is safely held by the mother. There's a risk of the > > > jnani, losing hold on Mother (God) and falling, like the baby > monkey > > > sometimes does because of its own confusions and inadequacies, > but > > > in the case of the kitten, the Mother itself takes care. > Likewise, > > > Bhagavan Himself takes care of the bhakta. > > > > > > I always felt that both are necessary for reaching God and i take > > > the support of Maha Bharata in this. Bhishma pitamaha was a great > > > jnani, yet, in the final moments of his life he recited Vishnu > > > Sahasranaamam, which marked the high point of devotion. Arjuna > was a > > > great sakha and bhakta of Krishna, yet toards the end the Lord > makes > > > sure that he acquires sufficient jnana also by personally > teaching > > > him in the form of Bhagavad gita. > > > > > > I feel, that one must have jnana, which is bhakti in action, 2nd > > > house being the 10th house from 5th house...in the list of gyana > > > yogas given by Dr. Raman 2nd house/lord has great importance... > > > while bhakti must remain at the heart of jnana (5th house being > 4th > > > from 2nd). > > > > > > Please correct my mistakes. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > You can take any view, the definition of Bhakti and Jnana > cannot > > > change. If > > > > you take Dwaita - it is Jnana that I and lord are separate and > > > therefore > > > > Bhakti is limited to Lord as separate from oneself. If you > take V- > > > Adwaita, > > > > then, it is Jnana that I am a part of the Lord and therefore > > > Bhakti is of > > > > the same nature. Similarly of Adwaita. Where is the difference > > > between the > > > > two? > > > > It is unnecessary to bring Dwaita, V-Adwaita and Adwaita > > > differences here. > > > > > > > > Bhakti does not mean no thinking. No love can come without > > > understanding. No > > > > understanding can be complete without Bhakti. > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > Thanks for your enlightening views.My concept of > understanding is > > > > > based on(Visishta) Dwaitha principles .As far as my personal > > > view is > > > > > concerned the ultimate result(undersanding) is Adwaithic > state > > > > > that "the other is not separate from me" comes through the > path > > > of > > > > > dwaitha only. > > > > > > > > > > Internally (as many of us perhaps) I thought and thought > about > > > the > > > > > ultimate truth through Dwaitic concepts as well as Adwaitic > > > concepts > > > > > and found that both are true in part and something more has > to > > > come > > > > > to view them in combination to know the ultimate truth.This > is > > > > > nothing but Jnana marga.Whereas in Bhakti state this > question is > > > > > gradually(or instantaneoulsly) receding and becoming > > > thoughtless/and > > > > > immaterial. > > > > > > > > > > Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu > Astrology" > > > > > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you have Bhakti without understanding of the same? > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no two, Jnana and Bhakti are the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Atmanastu Kaamaya Sarvam Priyam Bhavati" - Brihadaryanka > > > > > Upanishad. This > > > > > > verse has the definitions of love and Bhakti in it and > also of > > > > > Jnana. I am > > > > > > just giving hints here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti is loosely translated as "Divine Love". What is > Love? - > > > An > > > > > > understanding that the other is not separate from me, > which is > > > > > nothing but > > > > > > Jnana. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is an error to treat them separately. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice question,please let me share my little > understanding of > > > > > these > > > > > > > divine concepts in few lines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti doesn't need mode of language for communication > with > > > the > > > > > > > Divine,It's simply LOVE(LOOSING ONES VERY EXISTENCE) by > > > > > > > concentrating on God.It also doesn't need any > interlocutor > > > for > > > > > > > understanding God.It's mostly instantaneous in formation > and > > > > > > > continues without any means of communication or > > > interlocutors in > > > > > > > between soul and the Divine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whereas gyan is mostly percieved through senses in first > > > stage > > > > > and > > > > > > > progresses with/without crutches of means of > communication > > > and > > > > > > > interlocutors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Goal and ultimate destination of both is the same > viz > > > > > > > realisation of Divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind request for Gurujis to evaluate of my understanding > and > > > > > correct > > > > > > > the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- > > > astrology- > > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > Terms of > > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > > astrology</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > > horoscope</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > software</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- > astrology- > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > - > Terms of > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > NeEg> Vedic > > > astrology</gads? > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > dnHA> Astrology > > > horoscope</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > software</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > 6iLuaCw> > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > on the web. > > > > > > - > > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology- > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > - Terms of > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 dear bharat ji you prefixed superlatives to bhakti marga and jnana marga and found karma marga as only preparation of mind. i stick to my understanding of karma marga (self-less service like jesus)as the best and jnana marga (illuminating the minds through knowledge and sermons like vivekananda) as better and bhakti marga is chosen only by those people who cannot do self-less service nor have any knowledge to illuminate others. there are various puranas and upanishads where it is written that even a person of vile conduct can reach the god through bhakti marga. several rakshasas got several boons from gods through bhakti marga. in kaliyuga, bhakti marga is preferred and treated as the short cut by most people to reach god mainly due to their reduced strength to travel on karma and jnana margas. with best wishes and regards arjun vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology wrote: > > Namaskaar Sri Arjun > > Karma is born out of the binding and cannot be the cause of Realization. > That one is Brahman is already achieved and does not require any karma to > fulfill it. It is only a question of realizing it. > > Then, what use is of Karma? To come out of the cycle of Karma, Yoga is > prescribed. Now what is Karma Yoga? - Performance of your Obligatory Duty is > Karma Yoga - This means doing Karma such that no further karma gets > generated and mind is bereft of worries and anxieties. Mind in that state is > ready for Pramana - which is the Vedanta. You can further ask - How through > Karma Yoga no further mental aberrations take place? - Because Karma Yoga > means performance of your duties without any respect for your likes and > dislikes. What are likes and dislikes - The Dwandhas!! > > The definition of obligatory duties is given in many texts including Srimad > Bhagavad Gita. > > Karma Yoga hence, is only a preparation for the mind and not to be confused > with actual Jnana. Bhakti and Jnana are same and supreme. > > Bhakti and Jnana have no relation to physical strength. To say people bereft > of mental strength follow Bhakti is an erroneous conclusion. Again I > repeat, only the bravest of the brave are Bhaktas and Jnanis. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > > > > On 3/18/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > > > dear bharat ji > > > > as you rightly observed, all these three margas viz. karma, bhakti > > and jnana are all inexplicably intertwined. for any person who > > marches sincerely on any of these three paths, the destination or > > realisation is the same. > > > > since each person has his or her own constitution of elements, > > different moral, psychological and spiritual needs and each > > individual having different idiosyncracies and antagonisms, based on > > these differences, people choose these three different paths. all > > paths lead to same destination only and no path is inferior or > > superior to the other. > > > > however, in my understanding karma marga in which an individual does > > self-less service is the best followed by jnana marga where the > > person spreads the light of knowledge and the bhakti marga is meant > > for those who have no physcial or mental strength to march on karma > > and jnana margas. > > > > with best wishes and regards > > pandit arjun > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Lakshmi > > > > > > You cannot be a Jnani without having Bhakti or vice versa. I can > > explain > > > this but neither you nor Sri Souvik are going to be satisfied. > > This is best > > > seen within oneself. For enabling the same, let me leave some > > pointers: > > > > > > Intellectual understanding is not Jnana. For example- for me to > > say All is > > > Brahman, you may appreciate it intellectually, but, may not > > realize the > > > enormity of this statement. The understanding can only come through > > > surrender. And what is surrender - Bhakti! > > > > > > Now look at the opposite - Bhakti is surrender - Can it come > > without Jnana > > > that All is the Lord. What did Sri Ramakrishna see - Ma within and > > without - > > > He was the greatest Jnani. Same with Sri Hanuman. Sri Ramana > > Maharishi was a > > > greatest Bhakta - he surrendered to Lord of Death. > > > > > > The measure of a person's spirituality is by the enormity of > > reactions he > > > has to his environment. The person who is a bhakta - surrenders and > > > therefore, does not react. Whenever people see a "Jnani" reacting - > > it means > > > he is not a Jnani. These are not two paths either. It is the same > > cognition > > > or recognition. To consider them separate from each other is a > > mistake. > > > > > > Spirituality is for the bravest of the brave and not meant for > > those running > > > away from life. The process of cognition of Vedic principles is - > > Study - > > > Questioning - Intellectual understanding (to those lacking the > > same must > > > perform obligatory duties - karma Yoga) - developing Faith (not > > blind > > > belief) - Taking risk from stepping out of self imposed > > limitations - > > > getting signals from Nature - gentle reminders of divinity around - > > ...... > > > > > > I will end now or else another lesson from Bhagavad Gita and the > > Upanishads > > > might have to start. I leave both of you to believe what you would > > like to. > > > It is neither my duty nor my desire to change your views but a > > hope that you > > > will realize this huge principle. > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, B Lakshmi Ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Bharat ji, > > > > > > > > My understanding, based on my limited reading, is that Jnana & > > > > Bhakti are like markata kishora nyaaya and maarjaala kishora > > nyaya > > > > respectively. in markata kishora nyaya, the responsibility of > > safely > > > > clinging to mother during a transit is on the baby monkey...a > > jnani > > > > is like that. whereas in the case of bhakti, the devotee is like > > the > > > > kitten, he is safely held by the mother. There's a risk of the > > > > jnani, losing hold on Mother (God) and falling, like the baby > > monkey > > > > sometimes does because of its own confusions and inadequacies, > > but > > > > in the case of the kitten, the Mother itself takes care. > > Likewise, > > > > Bhagavan Himself takes care of the bhakta. > > > > > > > > I always felt that both are necessary for reaching God and i take > > > > the support of Maha Bharata in this. Bhishma pitamaha was a great > > > > jnani, yet, in the final moments of his life he recited Vishnu > > > > Sahasranaamam, which marked the high point of devotion. Arjuna > > was a > > > > great sakha and bhakta of Krishna, yet toards the end the Lord > > makes > > > > sure that he acquires sufficient jnana also by personally > > teaching > > > > him in the form of Bhagavad gita. > > > > > > > > I feel, that one must have jnana, which is bhakti in action, 2nd > > > > house being the 10th house from 5th house...in the list of gyana > > > > yogas given by Dr. Raman 2nd house/lord has great importance... > > > > while bhakti must remain at the heart of jnana (5th house being > > 4th > > > > from 2nd). > > > > > > > > Please correct my mistakes. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > You can take any view, the definition of Bhakti and Jnana > > cannot > > > > change. If > > > > > you take Dwaita - it is Jnana that I and lord are separate and > > > > therefore > > > > > Bhakti is limited to Lord as separate from oneself. If you > > take V- > > > > Adwaita, > > > > > then, it is Jnana that I am a part of the Lord and therefore > > > > Bhakti is of > > > > > the same nature. Similarly of Adwaita. Where is the difference > > > > between the > > > > > two? > > > > > It is unnecessary to bring Dwaita, V-Adwaita and Adwaita > > > > differences here. > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti does not mean no thinking. No love can come without > > > > understanding. No > > > > > understanding can be complete without Bhakti. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > > Thanks for your enlightening views.My concept of > > understanding is > > > > > > based on(Visishta) Dwaitha principles .As far as my personal > > > > view is > > > > > > concerned the ultimate result(undersanding) is Adwaithic > > state > > > > > > that "the other is not separate from me" comes through the > > path > > > > of > > > > > > dwaitha only. > > > > > > > > > > > > Internally (as many of us perhaps) I thought and thought > > about > > > > the > > > > > > ultimate truth through Dwaitic concepts as well as Adwaitic > > > > concepts > > > > > > and found that both are true in part and something more has > > to > > > > come > > > > > > to view them in combination to know the ultimate truth.This > > is > > > > > > nothing but Jnana marga.Whereas in Bhakti state this > > question is > > > > > > gradually(or instantaneoulsly) receding and becoming > > > > thoughtless/and > > > > > > immaterial. > > > > > > > > > > > > Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu > > Astrology" > > > > > > > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you have Bhakti without understanding of the same? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no two, Jnana and Bhakti are the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Atmanastu Kaamaya Sarvam Priyam Bhavati" - Brihadaryanka > > > > > > Upanishad. This > > > > > > > verse has the definitions of love and Bhakti in it and > > also of > > > > > > Jnana. I am > > > > > > > just giving hints here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti is loosely translated as "Divine Love". What is > > Love? - > > > > An > > > > > > > understanding that the other is not separate from me, > > which is > > > > > > nothing but > > > > > > > Jnana. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is an error to treat them separately. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice question,please let me share my little > > understanding of > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > divine concepts in few lines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti doesn't need mode of language for communication > > with > > > > the > > > > > > > > Divine,It's simply LOVE(LOOSING ONES VERY EXISTENCE) by > > > > > > > > concentrating on God.It also doesn't need any > > interlocutor > > > > for > > > > > > > > understanding God.It's mostly instantaneous in formation > > and > > > > > > > > continues without any means of communication or > > > > interlocutors in > > > > > > > > between soul and the Divine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whereas gyan is mostly percieved through senses in first > > > > stage > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > progresses with/without crutches of means of > > communication > > > > and > > > > > > > > interlocutors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Goal and ultimate destination of both is the same > > viz > > > > > > > > realisation of Divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind request for Gurujis to evaluate of my understanding > > and > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archives: vedic- astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - To from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > vedic astrology- <vedic- > > > > astrology- > > > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Your use of is subject to the > > > > Terms of > > > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > > > astrology</gads? > > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > > > horoscope</gads? > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > > software</gads? > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > > > > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- > > astrology- > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > Terms of > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > astrology</gads? > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > horoscope</gads? > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > software</gads? > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > - > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- astrology- > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > - Terms of > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB NeEg> Vedic > > astrology</gads? t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI dnHA> Astrology > > horoscope</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > software</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt 6iLuaCw> > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- astrology<vedic astrology>" > > on the web. > > > > - > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology- ?subject=Un> > > > > - Terms of > > Service <>. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Namaskaar Sri Arjun I said Bhakti and Jnana are supreme. Not Margas! Thanks and Regards Bharat On 3/18/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear bharat ji > > you prefixed superlatives to bhakti marga and jnana marga and found > karma marga as only preparation of mind. > > i stick to my understanding of karma marga (self-less service like > jesus)as the best and jnana marga (illuminating the minds through > knowledge and sermons like vivekananda) as better and bhakti marga > is chosen only by those people who cannot do self-less service nor > have any knowledge to illuminate others. there are various puranas > and upanishads where it is written that even a person of vile > conduct can reach the god through bhakti marga. several rakshasas > got several boons from gods through bhakti marga. > > in kaliyuga, bhakti marga is preferred and treated as the short cut > by most people to reach god mainly due to their reduced strength to > travel on karma and jnana margas. > > > with best wishes and regards > arjun > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > <hinduastrology wrote: > > > > Namaskaar Sri Arjun > > > > Karma is born out of the binding and cannot be the cause of > Realization. > > That one is Brahman is already achieved and does not require any > karma to > > fulfill it. It is only a question of realizing it. > > > > Then, what use is of Karma? To come out of the cycle of Karma, > Yoga is > > prescribed. Now what is Karma Yoga? - Performance of your > Obligatory Duty is > > Karma Yoga - This means doing Karma such that no further karma gets > > generated and mind is bereft of worries and anxieties. Mind in > that state is > > ready for Pramana - which is the Vedanta. You can further ask - > How through > > Karma Yoga no further mental aberrations take place? - Because > Karma Yoga > > means performance of your duties without any respect for your > likes and > > dislikes. What are likes and dislikes - The Dwandhas!! > > > > The definition of obligatory duties is given in many texts > including Srimad > > Bhagavad Gita. > > > > Karma Yoga hence, is only a preparation for the mind and not to be > confused > > with actual Jnana. Bhakti and Jnana are same and supreme. > > > > Bhakti and Jnana have no relation to physical strength. To say > people bereft > > of mental strength follow Bhakti is an erroneous conclusion. > Again I > > repeat, only the bravest of the brave are Bhaktas and Jnanis. > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > On 3/18/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > > > > > dear bharat ji > > > > > > as you rightly observed, all these three margas viz. karma, > bhakti > > > and jnana are all inexplicably intertwined. for any person who > > > marches sincerely on any of these three paths, the destination or > > > realisation is the same. > > > > > > since each person has his or her own constitution of elements, > > > different moral, psychological and spiritual needs and each > > > individual having different idiosyncracies and antagonisms, > based on > > > these differences, people choose these three different paths. > all > > > paths lead to same destination only and no path is inferior or > > > superior to the other. > > > > > > however, in my understanding karma marga in which an individual > does > > > self-less service is the best followed by jnana marga where the > > > person spreads the light of knowledge and the bhakti marga is > meant > > > for those who have no physcial or mental strength to march on > karma > > > and jnana margas. > > > > > > with best wishes and regards > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Lakshmi > > > > > > > > You cannot be a Jnani without having Bhakti or vice versa. I > can > > > explain > > > > this but neither you nor Sri Souvik are going to be satisfied. > > > This is best > > > > seen within oneself. For enabling the same, let me leave some > > > pointers: > > > > > > > > Intellectual understanding is not Jnana. For example- for me to > > > say All is > > > > Brahman, you may appreciate it intellectually, but, may not > > > realize the > > > > enormity of this statement. The understanding can only come > through > > > > surrender. And what is surrender - Bhakti! > > > > > > > > Now look at the opposite - Bhakti is surrender - Can it come > > > without Jnana > > > > that All is the Lord. What did Sri Ramakrishna see - Ma within > and > > > without - > > > > He was the greatest Jnani. Same with Sri Hanuman. Sri Ramana > > > Maharishi was a > > > > greatest Bhakta - he surrendered to Lord of Death. > > > > > > > > The measure of a person's spirituality is by the enormity of > > > reactions he > > > > has to his environment. The person who is a bhakta - > surrenders and > > > > therefore, does not react. Whenever people see a "Jnani" > reacting - > > > it means > > > > he is not a Jnani. These are not two paths either. It is the > same > > > cognition > > > > or recognition. To consider them separate from each other is a > > > mistake. > > > > > > > > Spirituality is for the bravest of the brave and not meant for > > > those running > > > > away from life. The process of cognition of Vedic principles > is - > > > Study - > > > > Questioning - Intellectual understanding (to those lacking the > > > same must > > > > perform obligatory duties - karma Yoga) - developing Faith (not > > > blind > > > > belief) - Taking risk from stepping out of self imposed > > > limitations - > > > > getting signals from Nature - gentle reminders of divinity > around - > > > ...... > > > > > > > > I will end now or else another lesson from Bhagavad Gita and > the > > > Upanishads > > > > might have to start. I leave both of you to believe what you > would > > > like to. > > > > It is neither my duty nor my desire to change your views but a > > > hope that you > > > > will realize this huge principle. > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, B Lakshmi Ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Bharat ji, > > > > > > > > > > My understanding, based on my limited reading, is that Jnana > & > > > > > Bhakti are like markata kishora nyaaya and maarjaala kishora > > > nyaya > > > > > respectively. in markata kishora nyaya, the responsibility of > > > safely > > > > > clinging to mother during a transit is on the baby monkey...a > > > jnani > > > > > is like that. whereas in the case of bhakti, the devotee is > like > > > the > > > > > kitten, he is safely held by the mother. There's a risk of > the > > > > > jnani, losing hold on Mother (God) and falling, like the baby > > > monkey > > > > > sometimes does because of its own confusions and > inadequacies, > > > but > > > > > in the case of the kitten, the Mother itself takes care. > > > Likewise, > > > > > Bhagavan Himself takes care of the bhakta. > > > > > > > > > > I always felt that both are necessary for reaching God and i > take > > > > > the support of Maha Bharata in this. Bhishma pitamaha was a > great > > > > > jnani, yet, in the final moments of his life he recited > Vishnu > > > > > Sahasranaamam, which marked the high point of devotion. > Arjuna > > > was a > > > > > great sakha and bhakta of Krishna, yet toards the end the > Lord > > > makes > > > > > sure that he acquires sufficient jnana also by personally > > > teaching > > > > > him in the form of Bhagavad gita. > > > > > > > > > > I feel, that one must have jnana, which is bhakti in action, > 2nd > > > > > house being the 10th house from 5th house...in the list of > gyana > > > > > yogas given by Dr. Raman 2nd house/lord has great > importance... > > > > > while bhakti must remain at the heart of jnana (5th house > being > > > 4th > > > > > from 2nd). > > > > > > > > > > Please correct my mistakes. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu > Astrology" > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > You can take any view, the definition of Bhakti and Jnana > > > cannot > > > > > change. If > > > > > > you take Dwaita - it is Jnana that I and lord are separate > and > > > > > therefore > > > > > > Bhakti is limited to Lord as separate from oneself. If you > > > take V- > > > > > Adwaita, > > > > > > then, it is Jnana that I am a part of the Lord and > therefore > > > > > Bhakti is of > > > > > > the same nature. Similarly of Adwaita. Where is the > difference > > > > > between the > > > > > > two? > > > > > > It is unnecessary to bring Dwaita, V-Adwaita and Adwaita > > > > > differences here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti does not mean no thinking. No love can come without > > > > > understanding. No > > > > > > understanding can be complete without Bhakti. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > > > Thanks for your enlightening views.My concept of > > > understanding is > > > > > > > based on(Visishta) Dwaitha principles .As far as my > personal > > > > > view is > > > > > > > concerned the ultimate result(undersanding) is Adwaithic > > > state > > > > > > > that "the other is not separate from me" comes through > the > > > path > > > > > of > > > > > > > dwaitha only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internally (as many of us perhaps) I thought and thought > > > about > > > > > the > > > > > > > ultimate truth through Dwaitic concepts as well as > Adwaitic > > > > > concepts > > > > > > > and found that both are true in part and something more > has > > > to > > > > > come > > > > > > > to view them in combination to know the ultimate > truth.This > > > is > > > > > > > nothing but Jnana marga.Whereas in Bhakti state this > > > question is > > > > > > > gradually(or instantaneoulsly) receding and becoming > > > > > thoughtless/and > > > > > > > immaterial. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu > > > Astrology" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you have Bhakti without understanding of the same? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no two, Jnana and Bhakti are the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Atmanastu Kaamaya Sarvam Priyam Bhavati" - > Brihadaryanka > > > > > > > Upanishad. This > > > > > > > > verse has the definitions of love and Bhakti in it and > > > also of > > > > > > > Jnana. I am > > > > > > > > just giving hints here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti is loosely translated as "Divine Love". What is > > > Love? - > > > > > An > > > > > > > > understanding that the other is not separate from me, > > > which is > > > > > > > nothing but > > > > > > > > Jnana. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is an error to treat them separately. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice question,please let me share my little > > > understanding of > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > divine concepts in few lines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti doesn't need mode of language for > communication > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > Divine,It's simply LOVE(LOOSING ONES VERY > EXISTENCE) by > > > > > > > > > concentrating on God.It also doesn't need any > > > interlocutor > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > understanding God.It's mostly instantaneous in > formation > > > and > > > > > > > > > continues without any means of communication or > > > > > interlocutors in > > > > > > > > > between soul and the Divine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whereas gyan is mostly percieved through senses in > first > > > > > stage > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > progresses with/without crutches of means of > > > communication > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > interlocutors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Goal and ultimate destination of both is the > same > > > viz > > > > > > > > > realisation of Divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind request for Gurujis to evaluate of my > understanding > > > and > > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archives: vedic- > astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri > Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - To from this group, send an email > to: > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology- > <vedic- > > > > > astrology- > > > > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Your use of is subject to the > > > > > > Terms of > > > > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > > > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > > > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > > > > astrology</gads? > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > > > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > > > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > > > > horoscope</gads? > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > > > > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > > > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > > > software</gads? > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > > > > > > > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > > > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- > > > astrology- > > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > Terms of > > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > > astrology</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > > horoscope</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > software</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- > astrology- > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > - > Terms of > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > NeEg> Vedic > > > astrology</gads? > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > dnHA> Astrology > > > horoscope</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > software</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > 6iLuaCw> > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > on the web. > > > > > > - > > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology- > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > - Terms of > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=\ Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Uokti\ PHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart\ &w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=q\ NtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+c\ hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.s\ ig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+cha\ rt&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig\ =Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > ------------------------------ > > > > - Visit your group "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > on the web. > > - > vedic astrology<vedic astrology-@gro\ ups.com?subject=Un> > > - Terms of > Service <>. > > > ------------------------------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Pandit ji, Sorry for intruding upon the discussion. But, I am truly perplexed by your statement that bhakti marga > is chosen only by those people who cannot do self-less service nor > have any knowledge to illuminate others. Is Hanuman weak? He's the Fearless One most sought after by every one for protection from all tamasic forces. Does He lack knowledge? He's the navama brahma and is highly learned, his Guru being none other than Surya Bhagavan....the original self-less giver of Light. He always remained the epitome of self-less service, whether it was rendered to Sugriva or Sri Rama. Hanuman personifies Bhakti and had proved that he could remain undefeated even by Sri Rama. Tyagaraja, Ramadas, Pothana, Meera Bai etc were great bhaktas who had to suffer a great deal too because of their attachment to God. If they were weak of heart, i don't think they would have gone through all that. I am sure, ith your knowledge, you'd know of many more such people. As Bharat ji observed all spiritual paths require great patience and persistent courage...in Baba's words.. Shraddha aur Saburi. If God had blessed even rakshasas, it is because they were also great bhaktas...because bhakti, unlike jnana, is not discriminating or judgemental. In Telugu Bhagavatam it is written that even if one thinks of God...paga naina (with hatred), vaga naina (with pain), preethi naina (with love), praana bheethi naina (with fear), it is sufficient to ensure His mercy. God is Mother, He is forever looking for ways to make us feel loved and cherished. He also punishes, if that is the karma we deserve by our actions. But the punishment is also born out of Love. Please forgive me if i have sounded harsh anywhere. Regards, Lakshmi vedic astrology, "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear bharat ji > > you prefixed superlatives to bhakti marga and jnana marga and found > karma marga as only preparation of mind. > > i stick to my understanding of karma marga (self-less service like > jesus)as the best and jnana marga (illuminating the minds through > knowledge and sermons like vivekananda) as better and bhakti marga > is chosen only by those people who cannot do self-less service nor > have any knowledge to illuminate others. there are various puranas > and upanishads where it is written that even a person of vile > conduct can reach the god through bhakti marga. several rakshasas > got several boons from gods through bhakti marga. > > in kaliyuga, bhakti marga is preferred and treated as the short cut > by most people to reach god mainly due to their reduced strength to > travel on karma and jnana margas. > > with best wishes and regards > arjun > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > Namaskaar Sri Arjun > > > > Karma is born out of the binding and cannot be the cause of > Realization. > > That one is Brahman is already achieved and does not require any > karma to > > fulfill it. It is only a question of realizing it. > > > > Then, what use is of Karma? To come out of the cycle of Karma, > Yoga is > > prescribed. Now what is Karma Yoga? - Performance of your > Obligatory Duty is > > Karma Yoga - This means doing Karma such that no further karma gets > > generated and mind is bereft of worries and anxieties. Mind in > that state is > > ready for Pramana - which is the Vedanta. You can further ask - > How through > > Karma Yoga no further mental aberrations take place? - Because > Karma Yoga > > means performance of your duties without any respect for your > likes and > > dislikes. What are likes and dislikes - The Dwandhas!! > > > > The definition of obligatory duties is given in many texts > including Srimad > > Bhagavad Gita. > > > > Karma Yoga hence, is only a preparation for the mind and not to be > confused > > with actual Jnana. Bhakti and Jnana are same and supreme. > > > > Bhakti and Jnana have no relation to physical strength. To say > people bereft > > of mental strength follow Bhakti is an erroneous conclusion. > Again I > > repeat, only the bravest of the brave are Bhaktas and Jnanis. > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > On 3/18/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > dear bharat ji > > > > > > as you rightly observed, all these three margas viz. karma, > bhakti > > > and jnana are all inexplicably intertwined. for any person who > > > marches sincerely on any of these three paths, the destination or > > > realisation is the same. > > > > > > since each person has his or her own constitution of elements, > > > different moral, psychological and spiritual needs and each > > > individual having different idiosyncracies and antagonisms, > based on > > > these differences, people choose these three different paths. > all > > > paths lead to same destination only and no path is inferior or > > > superior to the other. > > > > > > however, in my understanding karma marga in which an individual > does > > > self-less service is the best followed by jnana marga where the > > > person spreads the light of knowledge and the bhakti marga is > meant > > > for those who have no physcial or mental strength to march on > karma > > > and jnana margas. > > > > > > with best wishes and regards > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Lakshmi > > > > > > > > You cannot be a Jnani without having Bhakti or vice versa. I > can > > > explain > > > > this but neither you nor Sri Souvik are going to be satisfied. > > > This is best > > > > seen within oneself. For enabling the same, let me leave some > > > pointers: > > > > > > > > Intellectual understanding is not Jnana. For example- for me to > > > say All is > > > > Brahman, you may appreciate it intellectually, but, may not > > > realize the > > > > enormity of this statement. The understanding can only come > through > > > > surrender. And what is surrender - Bhakti! > > > > > > > > Now look at the opposite - Bhakti is surrender - Can it come > > > without Jnana > > > > that All is the Lord. What did Sri Ramakrishna see - Ma within > and > > > without - > > > > He was the greatest Jnani. Same with Sri Hanuman. Sri Ramana > > > Maharishi was a > > > > greatest Bhakta - he surrendered to Lord of Death. > > > > > > > > The measure of a person's spirituality is by the enormity of > > > reactions he > > > > has to his environment. The person who is a bhakta - > surrenders and > > > > therefore, does not react. Whenever people see a "Jnani" > reacting - > > > it means > > > > he is not a Jnani. These are not two paths either. It is the > same > > > cognition > > > > or recognition. To consider them separate from each other is a > > > mistake. > > > > > > > > Spirituality is for the bravest of the brave and not meant for > > > those running > > > > away from life. The process of cognition of Vedic principles > is - > > > Study - > > > > Questioning - Intellectual understanding (to those lacking the > > > same must > > > > perform obligatory duties - karma Yoga) - developing Faith (not > > > blind > > > > belief) - Taking risk from stepping out of self imposed > > > limitations - > > > > getting signals from Nature - gentle reminders of divinity > around - > > > ...... > > > > > > > > I will end now or else another lesson from Bhagavad Gita and > the > > > Upanishads > > > > might have to start. I leave both of you to believe what you > would > > > like to. > > > > It is neither my duty nor my desire to change your views but a > > > hope that you > > > > will realize this huge principle. > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, B Lakshmi Ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Bharat ji, > > > > > > > > > > My understanding, based on my limited reading, is that Jnana > & > > > > > Bhakti are like markata kishora nyaaya and maarjaala kishora > > > nyaya > > > > > respectively. in markata kishora nyaya, the responsibility of > > > safely > > > > > clinging to mother during a transit is on the baby monkey...a > > > jnani > > > > > is like that. whereas in the case of bhakti, the devotee is > like > > > the > > > > > kitten, he is safely held by the mother. There's a risk of > the > > > > > jnani, losing hold on Mother (God) and falling, like the baby > > > monkey > > > > > sometimes does because of its own confusions and > inadequacies, > > > but > > > > > in the case of the kitten, the Mother itself takes care. > > > Likewise, > > > > > Bhagavan Himself takes care of the bhakta. > > > > > > > > > > I always felt that both are necessary for reaching God and i > take > > > > > the support of Maha Bharata in this. Bhishma pitamaha was a > great > > > > > jnani, yet, in the final moments of his life he recited > Vishnu > > > > > Sahasranaamam, which marked the high point of devotion. > Arjuna > > > was a > > > > > great sakha and bhakta of Krishna, yet toards the end the > Lord > > > makes > > > > > sure that he acquires sufficient jnana also by personally > > > teaching > > > > > him in the form of Bhagavad gita. > > > > > > > > > > I feel, that one must have jnana, which is bhakti in action, > 2nd > > > > > house being the 10th house from 5th house...in the list of > gyana > > > > > yogas given by Dr. Raman 2nd house/lord has great > importance... > > > > > while bhakti must remain at the heart of jnana (5th house > being > > > 4th > > > > > from 2nd). > > > > > > > > > > Please correct my mistakes. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu > Astrology" > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > You can take any view, the definition of Bhakti and Jnana > > > cannot > > > > > change. If > > > > > > you take Dwaita - it is Jnana that I and lord are separate > and > > > > > therefore > > > > > > Bhakti is limited to Lord as separate from oneself. If you > > > take V- > > > > > Adwaita, > > > > > > then, it is Jnana that I am a part of the Lord and > therefore > > > > > Bhakti is of > > > > > > the same nature. Similarly of Adwaita. Where is the > difference > > > > > between the > > > > > > two? > > > > > > It is unnecessary to bring Dwaita, V-Adwaita and Adwaita > > > > > differences here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti does not mean no thinking. No love can come without > > > > > understanding. No > > > > > > understanding can be complete without Bhakti. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > > > Thanks for your enlightening views.My concept of > > > understanding is > > > > > > > based on(Visishta) Dwaitha principles .As far as my > personal > > > > > view is > > > > > > > concerned the ultimate result(undersanding) is Adwaithic > > > state > > > > > > > that "the other is not separate from me" comes through > the > > > path > > > > > of > > > > > > > dwaitha only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internally (as many of us perhaps) I thought and thought > > > about > > > > > the > > > > > > > ultimate truth through Dwaitic concepts as well as > Adwaitic > > > > > concepts > > > > > > > and found that both are true in part and something more > has > > > to > > > > > come > > > > > > > to view them in combination to know the ultimate > truth.This > > > is > > > > > > > nothing but Jnana marga.Whereas in Bhakti state this > > > question is > > > > > > > gradually(or instantaneoulsly) receding and becoming > > > > > thoughtless/and > > > > > > > immaterial. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu > > > Astrology" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you have Bhakti without understanding of the same? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no two, Jnana and Bhakti are the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Atmanastu Kaamaya Sarvam Priyam Bhavati" - > Brihadaryanka > > > > > > > Upanishad. This > > > > > > > > verse has the definitions of love and Bhakti in it and > > > also of > > > > > > > Jnana. I am > > > > > > > > just giving hints here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti is loosely translated as "Divine Love". What is > > > Love? - > > > > > An > > > > > > > > understanding that the other is not separate from me, > > > which is > > > > > > > nothing but > > > > > > > > Jnana. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is an error to treat them separately. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice question,please let me share my little > > > understanding of > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > divine concepts in few lines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti doesn't need mode of language for > communication > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > Divine,It's simply LOVE(LOOSING ONES VERY > EXISTENCE) by > > > > > > > > > concentrating on God.It also doesn't need any > > > interlocutor > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > understanding God.It's mostly instantaneous in > formation > > > and > > > > > > > > > continues without any means of communication or > > > > > interlocutors in > > > > > > > > > between soul and the Divine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whereas gyan is mostly percieved through senses in > first > > > > > stage > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > progresses with/without crutches of means of > > > communication > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > interlocutors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Goal and ultimate destination of both is the > same > > > viz > > > > > > > > > realisation of Divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind request for Gurujis to evaluate of my > understanding > > > and > > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archives: vedic- > astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri > Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > > > > astrology<vedic- astrology>" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - To from this group, send an email > to: > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology- > <vedic- > > > > > astrology- > > > > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Your use of is subject to the > > > > > > Terms of > > > > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > > > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > > > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > > > > astrology</gads? > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > > > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > > > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > > > > horoscope</gads? > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > > > > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > > > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > > > software</gads? > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > > > > > > > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > > > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- > > > astrology- > > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Your use of is subject to the > > > Terms of > > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > > astrology</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > > horoscope</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > software</gads? > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- > astrology- > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > - > Terms of > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > NeEg> Vedic > > > astrology</gads? > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > dnHA> Astrology > > > horoscope</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > software</gads? > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > 6iLuaCw> > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > on the web. > > > > > > - > > > vedic astrology<vedic- astrology- > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > - Terms of > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 namaste lakshmi garu in karma marga, few chosen people like jesus went in search of the suffering and in serving the suffering, they were crucified which is the ultimate. similarly in jnana marga, few people keep on spreading their knowledge freely as is done by most members in these groups. in bhakti marga, if a person makes absolute surrender i.e. 100% reposition of faith in god, they too reach the god and are blessed by the god. you are right when saying that in the path of bhakti there is no discrimination of a good and bad person, all reach god and all are blessed by god. there are numerous people who came from good, bad and ugly conducts and did get numerous boons from the god through their bhakti marga. ravana's shiva bhakti is one example. since my mother tongue is telugu, i know well what you said. as mentioned in my first mail, no marga is inferior or superior to the other. all margas reach the same goal or same god. any person marching with 100% sincerety on any path reaches god. let us all agree and conclude that each marga is great in its own way and all margas reach the same destination. with best wishes and regards pandit arjun vedic astrology, "B Lakshmi Ramesh" <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Pandit ji, > > Sorry for intruding upon the discussion. But, I am truly perplexed > by your statement that bhakti marga > > is chosen only by those people who cannot do self-less service nor > > have any knowledge to illuminate others. > > Is Hanuman weak? He's the Fearless One most sought after by every > one for protection from all tamasic forces. > > Does He lack knowledge? He's the navama brahma and is highly > learned, his Guru being none other than Surya Bhagavan....the > original self-less giver of Light. > > He always remained the epitome of self-less service, whether it was > rendered to Sugriva or Sri Rama. > > Hanuman personifies Bhakti and had proved that he could remain > undefeated even by Sri Rama. > > Tyagaraja, Ramadas, Pothana, Meera Bai etc were great bhaktas who > had to suffer a great deal too because of their attachment to God. > If they were weak of heart, i don't think they would have gone > through all that. I am sure, ith your knowledge, you'd know of many > more such people. As Bharat ji observed all spiritual paths require > great patience and persistent courage...in Baba's words.. Shraddha > aur Saburi. > > If God had blessed even rakshasas, it is because they were also > great bhaktas...because bhakti, unlike jnana, is not discriminating > or judgemental. In Telugu Bhagavatam it is written that even if one > thinks of God...paga naina (with hatred), vaga naina (with pain), > preethi naina (with love), praana bheethi naina (with fear), it is > sufficient to ensure His mercy. > > God is Mother, He is forever looking for ways to make us feel loved > and cherished. He also punishes, if that is the karma we deserve by > our actions. But the punishment is also born out of Love. > > Please forgive me if i have sounded harsh anywhere. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > > vedic astrology, "panditarjun2004" > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > dear bharat ji > > > > you prefixed superlatives to bhakti marga and jnana marga and > found > > karma marga as only preparation of mind. > > > > i stick to my understanding of karma marga (self-less service like > > jesus)as the best and jnana marga (illuminating the minds through > > knowledge and sermons like vivekananda) as better and bhakti marga > > is chosen only by those people who cannot do self-less service nor > > have any knowledge to illuminate others. there are various > puranas > > and upanishads where it is written that even a person of vile > > conduct can reach the god through bhakti marga. several rakshasas > > got several boons from gods through bhakti marga. > > > > in kaliyuga, bhakti marga is preferred and treated as the short > cut > > by most people to reach god mainly due to their reduced strength > to > > travel on karma and jnana margas. > > > > with best wishes and regards > > arjun > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Arjun > > > > > > Karma is born out of the binding and cannot be the cause of > > Realization. > > > That one is Brahman is already achieved and does not require any > > karma to > > > fulfill it. It is only a question of realizing it. > > > > > > Then, what use is of Karma? To come out of the cycle of Karma, > > Yoga is > > > prescribed. Now what is Karma Yoga? - Performance of your > > Obligatory Duty is > > > Karma Yoga - This means doing Karma such that no further karma > gets > > > generated and mind is bereft of worries and anxieties. Mind in > > that state is > > > ready for Pramana - which is the Vedanta. You can further ask - > > How through > > > Karma Yoga no further mental aberrations take place? - Because > > Karma Yoga > > > means performance of your duties without any respect for your > > likes and > > > dislikes. What are likes and dislikes - The Dwandhas!! > > > > > > The definition of obligatory duties is given in many texts > > including Srimad > > > Bhagavad Gita. > > > > > > Karma Yoga hence, is only a preparation for the mind and not to > be > > confused > > > with actual Jnana. Bhakti and Jnana are same and supreme. > > > > > > Bhakti and Jnana have no relation to physical strength. To say > > people bereft > > > of mental strength follow Bhakti is an erroneous conclusion. > > Again I > > > repeat, only the bravest of the brave are Bhaktas and Jnanis. > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/18/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > dear bharat ji > > > > > > > > as you rightly observed, all these three margas viz. karma, > > bhakti > > > > and jnana are all inexplicably intertwined. for any person who > > > > marches sincerely on any of these three paths, the destination > or > > > > realisation is the same. > > > > > > > > since each person has his or her own constitution of elements, > > > > different moral, psychological and spiritual needs and each > > > > individual having different idiosyncracies and antagonisms, > > based on > > > > these differences, people choose these three different paths. > > all > > > > paths lead to same destination only and no path is inferior or > > > > superior to the other. > > > > > > > > however, in my understanding karma marga in which an > individual > > does > > > > self-less service is the best followed by jnana marga where the > > > > person spreads the light of knowledge and the bhakti marga is > > meant > > > > for those who have no physcial or mental strength to march on > > karma > > > > and jnana margas. > > > > > > > > with best wishes and regards > > > > pandit arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu > Astrology" > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > You cannot be a Jnani without having Bhakti or vice versa. I > > can > > > > explain > > > > > this but neither you nor Sri Souvik are going to be > satisfied. > > > > This is best > > > > > seen within oneself. For enabling the same, let me leave some > > > > pointers: > > > > > > > > > > Intellectual understanding is not Jnana. For example- for me > to > > > > say All is > > > > > Brahman, you may appreciate it intellectually, but, may not > > > > realize the > > > > > enormity of this statement. The understanding can only come > > through > > > > > surrender. And what is surrender - Bhakti! > > > > > > > > > > Now look at the opposite - Bhakti is surrender - Can it come > > > > without Jnana > > > > > that All is the Lord. What did Sri Ramakrishna see - Ma > within > > and > > > > without - > > > > > He was the greatest Jnani. Same with Sri Hanuman. Sri Ramana > > > > Maharishi was a > > > > > greatest Bhakta - he surrendered to Lord of Death. > > > > > > > > > > The measure of a person's spirituality is by the enormity of > > > > reactions he > > > > > has to his environment. The person who is a bhakta - > > surrenders and > > > > > therefore, does not react. Whenever people see a "Jnani" > > reacting - > > > > it means > > > > > he is not a Jnani. These are not two paths either. It is the > > same > > > > cognition > > > > > or recognition. To consider them separate from each other is > a > > > > mistake. > > > > > > > > > > Spirituality is for the bravest of the brave and not meant > for > > > > those running > > > > > away from life. The process of cognition of Vedic > principles > > is - > > > > Study - > > > > > Questioning - Intellectual understanding (to those lacking > the > > > > same must > > > > > perform obligatory duties - karma Yoga) - developing Faith > (not > > > > blind > > > > > belief) - Taking risk from stepping out of self imposed > > > > limitations - > > > > > getting signals from Nature - gentle reminders of divinity > > around - > > > > ...... > > > > > > > > > > I will end now or else another lesson from Bhagavad Gita and > > the > > > > Upanishads > > > > > might have to start. I leave both of you to believe what you > > would > > > > like to. > > > > > It is neither my duty nor my desire to change your views but > a > > > > hope that you > > > > > will realize this huge principle. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, B Lakshmi Ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Bharat ji, > > > > > > > > > > > > My understanding, based on my limited reading, is that > Jnana > > & > > > > > > Bhakti are like markata kishora nyaaya and maarjaala > kishora > > > > nyaya > > > > > > respectively. in markata kishora nyaya, the responsibility > of > > > > safely > > > > > > clinging to mother during a transit is on the baby > monkey...a > > > > jnani > > > > > > is like that. whereas in the case of bhakti, the devotee > is > > like > > > > the > > > > > > kitten, he is safely held by the mother. There's a risk of > > the > > > > > > jnani, losing hold on Mother (God) and falling, like the > baby > > > > monkey > > > > > > sometimes does because of its own confusions and > > inadequacies, > > > > but > > > > > > in the case of the kitten, the Mother itself takes care. > > > > Likewise, > > > > > > Bhagavan Himself takes care of the bhakta. > > > > > > > > > > > > I always felt that both are necessary for reaching God and > i > > take > > > > > > the support of Maha Bharata in this. Bhishma pitamaha was > a > > great > > > > > > jnani, yet, in the final moments of his life he recited > > Vishnu > > > > > > Sahasranaamam, which marked the high point of devotion. > > Arjuna > > > > was a > > > > > > great sakha and bhakta of Krishna, yet toards the end the > > Lord > > > > makes > > > > > > sure that he acquires sufficient jnana also by personally > > > > teaching > > > > > > him in the form of Bhagavad gita. > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel, that one must have jnana, which is bhakti in > action, > > 2nd > > > > > > house being the 10th house from 5th house...in the list of > > gyana > > > > > > yogas given by Dr. Raman 2nd house/lord has great > > importance... > > > > > > while bhakti must remain at the heart of jnana (5th house > > being > > > > 4th > > > > > > from 2nd). > > > > > > > > > > > > Please correct my mistakes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu > > Astrology" > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can take any view, the definition of Bhakti and Jnana > > > > cannot > > > > > > change. If > > > > > > > you take Dwaita - it is Jnana that I and lord are > separate > > and > > > > > > therefore > > > > > > > Bhakti is limited to Lord as separate from oneself. If > you > > > > take V- > > > > > > Adwaita, > > > > > > > then, it is Jnana that I am a part of the Lord and > > therefore > > > > > > Bhakti is of > > > > > > > the same nature. Similarly of Adwaita. Where is the > > difference > > > > > > between the > > > > > > > two? > > > > > > > It is unnecessary to bring Dwaita, V-Adwaita and Adwaita > > > > > > differences here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti does not mean no thinking. No love can come > without > > > > > > understanding. No > > > > > > > understanding can be complete without Bhakti. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > > > > Thanks for your enlightening views.My concept of > > > > understanding is > > > > > > > > based on(Visishta) Dwaitha principles .As far as my > > personal > > > > > > view is > > > > > > > > concerned the ultimate result(undersanding) is > Adwaithic > > > > state > > > > > > > > that "the other is not separate from me" comes > through > > the > > > > path > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > dwaitha only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internally (as many of us perhaps) I thought and > thought > > > > about > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > ultimate truth through Dwaitic concepts as well as > > Adwaitic > > > > > > concepts > > > > > > > > and found that both are true in part and something > more > > has > > > > to > > > > > > come > > > > > > > > to view them in combination to know the ultimate > > truth.This > > > > is > > > > > > > > nothing but Jnana marga.Whereas in Bhakti state this > > > > question is > > > > > > > > gradually(or instantaneoulsly) receding and becoming > > > > > > thoughtless/and > > > > > > > > immaterial. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu > > > > Astrology" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you have Bhakti without understanding of the > same? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no two, Jnana and Bhakti are the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Atmanastu Kaamaya Sarvam Priyam Bhavati" - > > Brihadaryanka > > > > > > > > Upanishad. This > > > > > > > > > verse has the definitions of love and Bhakti in it > and > > > > also of > > > > > > > > Jnana. I am > > > > > > > > > just giving hints here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti is loosely translated as "Divine Love". What > is > > > > Love? - > > > > > > An > > > > > > > > > understanding that the other is not separate from me, > > > > which is > > > > > > > > nothing but > > > > > > > > > Jnana. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is an error to treat them separately. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice question,please let me share my little > > > > understanding of > > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > > > > divine concepts in few lines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti doesn't need mode of language for > > communication > > > > with > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > Divine,It's simply LOVE(LOOSING ONES VERY > > EXISTENCE) by > > > > > > > > > > concentrating on God.It also doesn't need any > > > > interlocutor > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > understanding God.It's mostly instantaneous in > > formation > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > continues without any means of communication or > > > > > > interlocutors in > > > > > > > > > > between soul and the Divine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whereas gyan is mostly percieved through senses in > > first > > > > > > stage > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > progresses with/without crutches of means of > > > > communication > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > interlocutors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Goal and ultimate destination of both is the > > same > > > > viz > > > > > > > > > > realisation of Divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind request for Gurujis to evaluate of my > > understanding > > > > and > > > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > > the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archives: vedic- > > astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri > > Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > > > > > astrology<vedic- > astrology>" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - To from this group, send an > email > > to: > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology- > > <vedic- > > > > > > astrology- > > > > > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Your use of is subject to the > > > > > > > > Terms of > > > > > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archives: vedic- astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu > || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > > > > > > > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > > > > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > > > > > astrology</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > > > > > > > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > > > > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > > > > > horoscope</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > > > > > > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > > > > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > > > > software</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > > > > > > > > > > > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > > > > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - To from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > vedic astrology- <vedic- > > > > astrology- > > > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Your use of is subject to the > > > > > Terms of > > > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > > > astrology</gads? > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > > > horoscope</gads? > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > > > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > > software</gads? > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > > > > > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- > > astrology- > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > Terms of > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > astrology</gads? > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > horoscope</gads? > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > software</gads? > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > - > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- > astrology- > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > - Terms > of > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 If at all it is relevant here - from what I understand - Jnana itself is of 3 types - 1. One that you have heard of, read of etc.. the knowledge here is superficial. 2. The type arrived at through analysis, reasoning and deduction - the knowledge is deeper - but not irrefutable. and 3. The type gained through personal experience - the knowledge is very deep and complete - this is where realizaton happens. Just to help with the understanding of it... 1. One hears that a particular type of pickle if fantastic etc..... 2. One reads the recipe and the ingredients and through logical deduction infers that yes it could be very tasty and 3. One actually tastes/experiences the pickle - anubhuti - now ones knowledge is complete - it is now that one REALIZES the true nature of the pickle - good or bad. Hope this helps, Vinoo vedic astrology [vedic astrology]On Behalf Of Souvik Dutta Saturday, March 18, 2006 05:33 vedic astrology [vedic astrology] Re: Bhakti and Jnana Shashtanga pranam Bharatji, What a beautiful explanation....splendid! Why should we fight over mother(Bhakti) and son(Jnana), tell me? :) But this is what I understood-you used the term Jana as REALIZATION of the Supreme..wonderful...In Hindi can we say that this term to be "ANUBHUTI". If you are talking about Anubhuti, how very correct you are!! No wonder!! How can I have bhakti without realization...beautiful..see your own words.. "Intellectual understanding is not Jnana. For example- for me to say All is Brahman, you may appreciate it intellectually, but, may not realize the enormity of this statement." See how beautifully you have explained. Which idiot can disagree with this :)? I am so sorry to enter into a debate with you if this was your meaning from the first place. A fool like me, mistook the meaning of Jnana as knowledge, and knowledge alone! This is what I understood Jnana as intellectual abilities and knowledge and all that crap. You have shown me light, thank you! "Tui jare Krishna bolish, aami tare Kali" :) Great words of Thakur. The one you call Krishna, I call Kali. To cry with realization in heart, to jump up and dance in joy, to do things that society can never accept, the scholars will never approve...this bhakti, headlessness.. See from day 1 both of us were speaking the same thing, just that we perceived the word jnana as different...how silly of us, isn't it:) You know now when I think of it, I say what a fool am I to explain bhakti in words ...words are for jnanis (oops..I mean scholars)...it is a very bad tool to use for anubhuti...that is the essence of Bhakti...didn't the Maharshis teach us mauna! :) Have a great weekend! Souvik vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology wrote: > > Namaskaar Sri Lakshmi > > You cannot be a Jnani without having Bhakti or vice versa. I can explain > this but neither you nor Sri Souvik are going to be satisfied. This is best > seen within oneself. For enabling the same, let me leave some pointers: > > Intellectual understanding is not Jnana. For example- for me to say All is > Brahman, you may appreciate it intellectually, but, may not realize the > enormity of this statement. The understanding can only come through > surrender. And what is surrender - Bhakti! > > Now look at the opposite - Bhakti is surrender - Can it come without Jnana > that All is the Lord. What did Sri Ramakrishna see - Ma within and without - > He was the greatest Jnani. Same with Sri Hanuman. Sri Ramana Maharishi was a > greatest Bhakta - he surrendered to Lord of Death. > > The measure of a person's spirituality is by the enormity of reactions he > has to his environment. The person who is a bhakta - surrenders and > therefore, does not react. Whenever people see a "Jnani" reacting - it means > he is not a Jnani. These are not two paths either. It is the same cognition > or recognition. To consider them separate from each other is a mistake. > > Spirituality is for the bravest of the brave and not meant for those running > away from life. The process of cognition of Vedic principles is - Study - > Questioning - Intellectual understanding (to those lacking the same must > perform obligatory duties - karma Yoga) - developing Faith (not blind > belief) - Taking risk from stepping out of self imposed limitations - > getting signals from Nature - gentle reminders of divinity around - ...... > > I will end now or else another lesson from Bhagavad Gita and the Upanishads > might have to start. I leave both of you to believe what you would like to. > It is neither my duty nor my desire to change your views but a hope that you > will realize this huge principle. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > > > > On 3/17/06, B Lakshmi Ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Bharat ji, > > > > My understanding, based on my limited reading, is that Jnana & > > Bhakti are like markata kishora nyaaya and maarjaala kishora nyaya > > respectively. in markata kishora nyaya, the responsibility of safely > > clinging to mother during a transit is on the baby monkey...a jnani > > is like that. whereas in the case of bhakti, the devotee is like the > > kitten, he is safely held by the mother. There's a risk of the > > jnani, losing hold on Mother (God) and falling, like the baby monkey > > sometimes does because of its own confusions and inadequacies, but > > in the case of the kitten, the Mother itself takes care. Likewise, > > Bhagavan Himself takes care of the bhakta. > > > > I always felt that both are necessary for reaching God and i take > > the support of Maha Bharata in this. Bhishma pitamaha was a great > > jnani, yet, in the final moments of his life he recited Vishnu > > Sahasranaamam, which marked the high point of devotion. Arjuna was a > > great sakha and bhakta of Krishna, yet toards the end the Lord makes > > sure that he acquires sufficient jnana also by personally teaching > > him in the form of Bhagavad gita. > > > > I feel, that one must have jnana, which is bhakti in action, 2nd > > house being the 10th house from 5th house...in the list of gyana > > yogas given by Dr. Raman 2nd house/lord has great importance... > > while bhakti must remain at the heart of jnana (5th house being 4th > > from 2nd). > > > > Please correct my mistakes. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > You can take any view, the definition of Bhakti and Jnana cannot > > change. If > > > you take Dwaita - it is Jnana that I and lord are separate and > > therefore > > > Bhakti is limited to Lord as separate from oneself. If you take V- > > Adwaita, > > > then, it is Jnana that I am a part of the Lord and therefore > > Bhakti is of > > > the same nature. Similarly of Adwaita. Where is the difference > > between the > > > two? > > > It is unnecessary to bring Dwaita, V-Adwaita and Adwaita > > differences here. > > > > > > Bhakti does not mean no thinking. No love can come without > > understanding. No > > > understanding can be complete without Bhakti. > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > Thanks for your enlightening views.My concept of understanding is > > > > based on(Visishta) Dwaitha principles .As far as my personal > > view is > > > > concerned the ultimate result(undersanding) is Adwaithic state > > > > that "the other is not separate from me" comes through the path > > of > > > > dwaitha only. > > > > > > > > Internally (as many of us perhaps) I thought and thought about > > the > > > > ultimate truth through Dwaitic concepts as well as Adwaitic > > concepts > > > > and found that both are true in part and something more has to > > come > > > > to view them in combination to know the ultimate truth.This is > > > > nothing but Jnana marga.Whereas in Bhakti state this question is > > > > gradually(or instantaneoulsly) receding and becoming > > thoughtless/and > > > > immaterial. > > > > > > > > Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Srinivas > > > > > > > > > > Can you have Bhakti without understanding of the same? > > > > > > > > > > There is no two, Jnana and Bhakti are the same. > > > > > > > > > > "Atmanastu Kaamaya Sarvam Priyam Bhavati" - Brihadaryanka > > > > Upanishad. This > > > > > verse has the definitions of love and Bhakti in it and also of > > > > Jnana. I am > > > > > just giving hints here. > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti is loosely translated as "Divine Love". What is Love? - > > An > > > > > understanding that the other is not separate from me, which is > > > > nothing but > > > > > Jnana. > > > > > > > > > > It is an error to treat them separately. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/06, smadavi <smadavi@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaram Bharatji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice question,please let me share my little understanding of > > > > these > > > > > > divine concepts in few lines. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bhakti doesn't need mode of language for communication with > > the > > > > > > Divine,It's simply LOVE(LOOSING ONES VERY EXISTENCE) by > > > > > > concentrating on God.It also doesn't need any interlocutor > > for > > > > > > understanding God.It's mostly instantaneous in formation and > > > > > > continues without any means of communication or > > interlocutors in > > > > > > between soul and the Divine. > > > > > > > > > > > > Whereas gyan is mostly percieved through senses in first > > stage > > > > and > > > > > > progresses with/without crutches of means of communication > > and > > > > > > interlocutors. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Goal and ultimate destination of both is the same viz > > > > > > realisation of Divinity. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind request for Gurujis to evaluate of my understanding and > > > > correct > > > > > > the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- > > astrology- > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > Terms of > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > astrology</gads? > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > horoscope</gads? > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > software</gads? > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > - > > > > vedic astrology<vedic- astrology- > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > - Terms of > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB NeEg> Vedic > > astrology</gads? t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI dnHA> Astrology > > horoscope</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > software</gads? t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt 6iLuaCw> > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- astrology<vedic astrology>" > > on the web. > > > > - > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology- ?subject=Un> > > > > - Terms of > > Service <>. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Astrology chart Vedic astrology Astrology horoscope Astrology software ---------- -- a.. Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web. b.. vedic astrology c.. Terms of Service. ---------- -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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