Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 To All Members: Please take the time to edit your messages and have respect for those who read this group as a news digest. regards, enigmcmpr vedic astrology vedic astrology 23 Feb 2006 10:32:16 -0000 [vedic astrology] Digest Number 3795 ------------------------ Sponsor There are 22 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Re: Property issues : TO.c.v.BHASKER. Bhasker C V <c_v_bhasker 2. Valampuri Lakshmi Shank Suppliers Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 3. Fwd: RE: Re: Translation of slokas from Mani Mala... yobrevol 4. Krishna the charioteer and Arjuna -Bharat ji -Indriyas/Manas etc. "vijayadas_pradeep" <vijayadas_pradeep 5. Re: Valampuri Lakshmi Shank Suppliers "Raghunatha RaoNemani" <raon1008 6. Re: Valampuri Lakshmi Shank Suppliers "Menon" <kochu1 7. Michael Mamas Talk "Sarbani Sarkar" <sarbani 8. A Qn. "Sreenadh" <sreelid 9. A Qn. "Sreenadh" <sreelid 10. Ratna Dana Vidhi: COMPLETE INFO LINK Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 11. Michael Mamas Talk "Sanjay Rath" <guruji 12. Sun in Aris in Natal chart - Let us predict - An excersise "Sreenadh" <sreelid 13. Re: Krishna the charioteer and Arjuna -Bharat ji -Indriyas/Manas etc. "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology 14. Re: Sun in Aris in Natal chart - Let us predict - An excersise Devika Dhillon <devikadhillon 15. Re: Krishna the charioteer and Arjuna -Bharat ji -Indriyas/Manas etc. "vijayadas_pradeep" <vijayadas_pradeep 16. Re: Sun in Aris in Natal chart - Let us predict - An excersise "vijayadas_pradeep" <vijayadas_pradeep 17. Re: Round One Mukhi Nepali Rudraksha ??? Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 18. Re: Sun in Aris in Natal chart - Let us predict - An excersise Richa Gupta <astro_destination 19. Re: Valampuri Lakshmi Shank Suppliers "balasubramanian_natesan2002" <parvamani 20. Re: Valampuri Lakshmi Shank Suppliers "balasubramanian_natesan2002" <parvamani 21. Re: Re: Krishna the charioteer and Arjuna -Bharat ji -Indriyas/Manas etc. "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology 22. Re: Sun in Aris in Natal chart - Let us predict - An excersise "dakshinastrologer" <dakshinastrologer ______________________ ______________________ Message: 1 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 02:57:38 -0800 (PST) Bhasker C V <c_v_bhasker Re: Property issues : TO.c.v.BHASKER. Hi, Sorry, i apologise ... I was actually in a tensed mood that i forgot altogether to furnish details Born 17-nov-1974 Place Madras., chennai. Time 07.28 AM star: moola 4th pada guru : 4th from lagna currently moon dasha ( not sure ) thanks --- KARUNAAKARAM RAAGHAVAM <munisevitham wrote: > Namaste, > > Your query needs to be supplemented with coordinates and Time-zone. > > Bhasker C V <c_v_bhasker wrote: > Hi, > > Born: 17-Nov-1974 > Time : 07:28AM > > > I have some complicated issues with property and house. Many people are > trying > to snatch them off me. Can someone tell me about my success and inheritance > of > prperties and how good are the planets regarding this in life > > star : moola > guru: 4th position from lagna > dasha current: moon dasha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > Astrology chart Vedic astrology Astrology horoscope Astrology > software > > > > > > Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web. > > > vedic astrology > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > Relax. Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > Links > > > > > > > ______________________ ______________________ Message: 2 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:04:01 +0000 (GMT) Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 Valampuri Lakshmi Shank Suppliers Suppliers of REAL Valampuri Lakshmi Shank Shells 1) G.S.JOHN RAMNATH "omegaa" <omegaa1 2) John Ravi <johnravi OR johnravi_135 3) Chandrashekar Phadki (Sacred Objects Member) --- can provide X-ray proof Good luck to all!!! Om svastyastu!!! Always, buyer beware!!! Best rgds Richard Shaw-Brown, PG Designer & Gemologist http://www.richardshawbrown.com http://www.agt-gems.com http://www.astralgemstonetalismans.com http://www.themisunderstood.com http://www.hrisikesh.com http://www.hrisikesh.net http://www.p-g-a.org http://www.satyavrat-shastri.net http://www.generalprem.com http://www.navaratna-museum.info http://www.sacred-objects.info Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. ______________________ ______________________ Message: 3 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 07:28:22 EST yobrevol Fwd: RE: Re: Translation of slokas from Mani Mala... || hare rama krishna || namaste Swee ji "The language is not ancient Sanskrit where there was less tendency of using synonyms there (an opinion after reading tomes of it; but am no expert!!) The slokas are more modern phenomenon to use words like "Avaneya". It is interesting to note that midway in the first line of shloka 81 the author has forgotten that he is writing for Viguna graha Dharanaa. Certainly not something the ancients would do! I venture a guess that this comes from Jaina source of astrological texts which are of a much later origin. Gaurav, what do you think?" This is precisely my point, the authenticity of this "translation" .....anyways, I will bring it up with my Jain Rishis next trip to India.....I know nothing of it currently. Gaurav Jain In a message dated 2/22/2006 4:20:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, swee writes: Jaya Jagannatha Dear Gaurav, Namaste Yes, please do so. Can you write this to the list so everyone will be aware of it. Love, Swee __ Yobrevol [Yobrevol] Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:54 PM swee Re: RE: [vedic astrology] Re: Translation of slokas from Mani Mala ... "Hare Rama Krishna " namaste Swee ji The language is not ancient Sanskrit where there was less tendency of using synonyms there (an opinion after reading tomes of it; but am no expert!!) The slokas are more modern phenomenon to use words like "Avaneya". It is interesting to note that midway in the first line of shloka 81 the author has forgotten that he is writing for Viguna graha Dharanaa. Certainly not something the ancients would do! I venture a guess that this comes from Jaina source of astrological texts which are of a much later origin. Gaurav, what do you think?" This is precisely my point, the authenticity of this "translation" .....anyways, I will bring it up with my Jain Rishis next trip to India.....I know nothing of it currently. In a message dated 2/21/2006 5:28:53 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, swee writes: Jaya Jagannatha Dear Richard and Arjun, Namaste I do not to donating a gomeda to a leper. Do you? What's he going to do? Take away your bad karma on your behalf when he himself is riddled with disease? We need to be more realistic here. The Puranas do not to such remedies. Instead, they do suggest dakshina to a Brahmana/Purohit. This is so that we hope the Brahmana/Purohit can take away some of our bad karma. This can be done in one of several ways: When transits are averse or just before the person dies/or during a shraddha. My suggestion is that, gifts (of gems and other items) have to be new and not your cast offs. Regarding the slokas sent by Richard (embedded below), these are my initial thoughts: The language is not ancient Sanskrit where there was less tendency of using synonyms there (an opinion after reading tomes of it; but am no expert!!) The slokas are more modern phenomenon to use words like "Avaneya". It is interesting to note that midway in the first line of shloka 81 the author has forgotten that he is writing for Viguna graha Dharanaa. Certainly not something the ancients would do! I venture a guess that this comes from Jaina source of astrological texts which are of a much later origin. Gaurav, what do you think? But there does not appear to be any variance about the ratnas that need to be worn from that of Narada Purana as long as we relate the Ratnas which are recommended for Dana as they relate to the grahas. What is in variance is in the matter of those that need to be worn. A careful look indicates that the shlokas are describing Viguna - meaning that when the grahas are inimical - for example, Jupiter is malefic (functional malefic), the recommendation is to wear Pearl. For Cancer lagna Jupiter will be malefic being the 6th moolatrikona lord, and here strengthening Moon will certainly make sense as Jupiter is going to create health problems and also since Moon does not own any bad house. More so if Jupiter is occupying the 8th House! In the 3rd sloka, the author appears to have changed the basis on which he's written the first two shlokas. For the meaning to be clear, one must also get the shlokas, that indicate what is Viguna. I assume that it must be given the book. Much would depend on which position of a graha or its rasi is called as Viguna. Love, Swee -----Original Message----- vedic astrology [vedic astrology] On Behalf Of panditarjun2004 Tuesday, February 21, 2006 5:28 AM vedic astrology [vedic astrology] Re: Translation of slokas from Mani Mala on Planetary G... namaste richard ji the simple rule of anukul/pratikul remedies are clear like this. retain or wear the objects of a beneficial planet. donate or throw in water the objects of a malefic planet. in lalkitab system of remedies, this is what is followed precisely. after years of research through lalkitab remedies, i found stones would work positively only if those planets are beneficial to the native in a chart. when the planets are malefic, since natives cannot afford donating precious stones, they can donate objects related to those malefic planets. this is where lalkitab comes handy. i do not agree with gauravji's observation that if you wear a pearn for moon, besides moon, jupiter would also be benefited and at the same time mars gets debilitated. in my knowledge stones have scientific properties and their single objective is to receive/absorb the cosmic energies of the respective planets. simply put, if you wear a stone for a particular planet, if that planet is a benefic the native gets positive results, and if that planet is malefic, the native gets negative results. because of these ambivalence in stone recommendations, i recommend rudraksha as several puranas attribute lords to each rudaksha and also attribute what benefits the wearer gets. no anukul, no pratikul. also it has no negative affects. with best wishes arjun --- In vedic astrology, "Richard Shaw-Brown II" <rsbj66 wrote: > > Dear Sriman, > > The translations of Mani Mala by Tagore - Verses 79-81 are correct. I have uploaded the > original Sanskrit texts to the PHOTOS section of this group for anyone to check. > > Verses 80-81 make no sense. Therefore it appears that Mani Mala is an imperfect source > of gem knowledge. And it should not be followed as is. > > One thing interesting is that books on Indian gemology, like Mani Mala, they only talk > about adverse planets. And they never mention what to do for Anukul planets (which is > obviously to wear the gem for the Anukul graha, viz., Anukula- vad)!?? > > Point is that for Pratikul Graha we DONATE the gem (ratna-arpana), and for Anukul Graha > we WEAR the gem. Based on the philosophy that gems strengthen their plant when worn, > and reduce their planet when donated. One is accepting, other is giving away. > > Best rgds, > Richard > > vedic astrology, yobrevol@ wrote: > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > Namaste Richard Ji, > > > > So they are actually correct. Please understand that my reservations were > > not personal towards you in nature, rather towards the stated translation. I am > > in agreement with you with the sloka 79 as I also come from Anukul school of > > thought as taught by my guru. > > > > I am just trying to figure out why would mani mala say what it states in > > sloka 80+...have you read another version of mani mala translated by another > > author...? > > > > To think that we should wear Blue sapphire for adverse moon is beyond my > > limited understanding, specially when we make a blunt general statement like > > that...I mean moon is neither exalted nor debilitated in saturn signs, and then > > the author of mani mala further suggests wearing a pearl for adverse > > Jupiter...where jupiter gets exalted, so their is inconsistency here... > > > > Having said that, may be Guru Ji and other learned will throw some light... > > > > Namaste > > Gaurav Jain > > > > In a message dated 2/20/2006 3:57:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > rsbj66@ writes: > > > > Dear Sriman, > > > > Namaste!!! I am not suggesting anything, these are three slokas taken from > > Mani Mala > > written by SM Tagore published in 1879. I'm just putting these slokas out > > for comment. > > > > I personally agree with the first sloka 79. When Sun is adverse one should > > DONATE a ruby, > > for adverse Moon one should donate a pearl, as in Ratna-dana- vidhi > > > > And when these planets are beneficial (anukul) then one should WEAR the > > associated gem, > > as if Sun is anukul in the chart then Ruby can be worn, as in ratna-dharana. > > > > Gem should be WORN for good planet / gem should be DONATED for bad planet. > > > > I personally disagree with slokas 80-81. But as they are from the famous > > Mani Mali so I > > have put them for your interest. > > > > Best regards, > > Richard > > > > vedic astrology, yobrevol@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > > > Namaste richard ji, > > > > > > If I am reading it correctly , what you are suggesting via these slokas is > > > > > that we should give away diamond to propitiate venus, and at the same time > > wear > > > diamond when venus is adverse? and that we wear blue sapphire to nullify > > > adverse effects of moon?....lets not forget that jupiter exalts in > > cancer, so > > > how in the right mind can we suggest wearing pearl to "ward off" the > > adverse > > > effects of jupiter...? > > > > > > are you sure about the authenticity of the translations? > > > > > > Also, to the learned, where can I get a copy of Mani mala? > > > > > > Namaste > > > Gaurav Jain > > > > > > In a message dated 2/20/2006 2:50:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > > rsbj66@ writes: > > > > > > Translation 79: Ill Stars and how to propitiate them by bestowal (dana) > > > of gems: > > > > > > When the Sun is hostile (donate) a pure ruby; when the Moon, a good > > > pearl; when Mangala, a good coral; when Budha, a good emerald; when > > > Brihaspati, a good yellow sapphire; when Shukra, the diamond; when > > > Shani, a good blue sapphire; when Rahu, the gomeda; and when Ketu, a > > > good cat's eye, should be donated > > > > > > Translation 80-81: Ill Stars and how to ward them off by wearing > > > (dharan) of gems: > > > > > > If the Sun is adverse, (wear) the cat's eye; if the Moon, the blue > > > sapphire; if Mangala, the ruby; if Budha, the ruby too; if Vrihaspati, > > > the pearl; if Shukra, the diamond; if Shani, the great blue sapphire; > > > if Rahu, the gomeda, and if Ketu, the emerald, should be worn. > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends > > http://uk.messenger. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Groups Sponsor -------------- ------~--> > > > Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and > > healing > > > _Click Here!_ (http://us.click./lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM) > > > ----------------------------- ------~-> > > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > ....... 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GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "_sohamsa_ (sohamsa) " on the web. * To from this group, send an email to: _sohamsa_ (sohamsa?subject=Un) * Your use of is subject to the _ Terms of Service_ () . __ ______________________ ______________________ Message: 4 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:02:35 -0000 "vijayadas_pradeep" <vijayadas_pradeep Krishna the charioteer and Arjuna -Bharat ji -Indriyas/Manas etc. Dear Bharat ji Namaskar All the answers for your queries,are in Bhagawat Gita.When Lord Krishna HIMSELF has explained them in detail,i do not think any one has to elaborate further. Bhagwan has explained to Arjuna on how to fix ones mind on HIM.What i have told is nothing more.We have to understand the difference between jivatma and Paramatma here.We are talking about jivatma,which is a spark of the very Paramatma.Finally mind will dissolve and just the Atma remains which will unite jivatma and Paramtma.Budhi is the mediator here.Please don't get distracted by various translations of Gita.Just think how we are breaking sheaths one by one and joining HIM.This is dissolving of mind in Atma - total dissolution is assimilation. There is a purpose for the creation of mind.Without it the ''game'' is not possible. Thus Shiva/Shakthi,Purusha/Prakrithi,Atma/Manas,Surya/Chandra etc have Paraspara Ashrayatwa or mutual dependency.It is all the same.When we say ''wherever mind is going'' - it is not a physical displacement.It is Manovyapara.Atma is the spark of HIM within us.It is just sitting as an observer,and goes wherever the mind takes him,and remains unaffected.Budhi is the discriminator,who can decide what is wriong and what is right.When Budhi is refined,or when the dust and impurities are removed,Budhi will act as it is supoosed to.Indriyas and Vishaya Sukhas can cloud Budhi.Once these are tamed,Manas Joins Budhi and then finally it joins Atma.Total dissolution.Bhagavan has made this crystal clear. A musician can sing based on lower intellectual analysis or higher influence.When it is lower,he concentrates or just repeats the techniques as taught.But in the higher state he forgets mind and music comes from Atma.It will come from within.Bhava can result only with that.Atma knows everything as it is part of the Pure Bodha or Consciousness.Bhava is thus the joining of Atma and Manas.Musician was just an example.Think of the act smile.We can smile just with lip movement or lip plus chin,cheeks,facial muscles etc.But the smile is not having bhava if it not coming from within.Then there is a confluence.Word or Vak is supreme.Nada is Supreme.Hence musical expressions can make us feel Bhava or unison with HIM,atleast for a few seconds,when striving for perfection. Once the concept of Bhava is clear,we can discuss astrological vargas.i am pretty sure that you have enough intelligence to understand the same.Whole universe is permeated with his spark.The colelctive feeling of all these is Supreme Bodha.In Jyotisha one unison of Atma and Manas is one Bhava.Indriyas,Budhi,Prana etc are facilitators. Kind Regds Pradeep vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology wrote: > > Namaskaar Sri Pradeep > > Om Astoma Sad Gamaya. > Tamasoma Jyothir Gamaya. > Mrityorma Amritam Gamaya. > Om Shantih! Shantih! Shantih! > > Here I go again: > > regarding Bhagawan Krishna & Arjuna.It will clear all our doubts.Think > of soul as jivatma in the current context,sitting inside the > chariot.What is the meaning of charioteer.It is intelligence.krishna had > taken over the control of intelligence from Arjuna(false > identification).Horses are Indriyas.The reins represent operations of > the mind.If the charioteer does not apply control,the horses may run > wherever they want.Also if reins(mind) are left alone after an initial > operation,the horses will keep on running as per the initial > instruction.Intelligence corresponds with indriyas through > manas.Intelligence can sometimes be clouded and can act based on > senses.Thus withdrawal of senses,can result in true intelligence,if it > is weak as per jataka. Thus chariot is sthoola shareera.but Chariot has no > life or movement if it is devoid of the above said entities -collectively > called as Sookshma > shareera. > > This is a well known analogy and till now I agree. I believe you are taking > the lagna chart as the sthoola Sarira (in your comments below) > > Atma has no desire.It is upto 'Us' to go back to our real Us- > ''Atma''.But Atma and Manas do have Paraspara ashrayatwa.Becasue atma > joins or follows manas, wherever he is taking,as an observer.(Think of > the soul in the chariot moving along with the movement of chariot which > is according to the direction from manas on to the horses(indriyas)). > Now you have extended the example. This is a common mistake for those > studying Vedanta. The analogy of the chariot = Sharira, Arjuna being the > Jivatma and Krishna meaning identification with the Real self is okay. It is > only to explain the individual and show how the senses can destroy a person > by misleading him. It also shows with the knowledge of the Self, the > indriyas function but in their maryada. > > Do not go to the level of mind taking Atma for a ride. This will overturn > almost all of the Upanishadic statments. As Atma is omnipresent, there is > nowhere where it is not. Therefore, wherever the mind goes, it there > already. It may seem to the mind that Atma is travelling with it, but then, > that is the Maya! > > A musician can sing with sublime bhava upon, forgetting of mind.Manas > dissolving in Atma is complete Bhava. In astrology strength of Sun gives > Atma bala and moon,manobala.Due to Paraspara aashrayatwa,strength of one > entity will result in the strength of the other. > > Sun gives atma bala not Atma. How is the bala different? The light of > consciousness when referred to in an individual is called conditioned > consciousness. It enlivens the ego thought and the mind. This is the Atma > bala and not the bala of Atman that we are referring to above. The Atman has > nothing to take from manobala. It is free already and it is omnipotent. > Therefore, the Atma bala can only refer to the light or brilliance of the > consciousness shining through Sun in our charts that enlivens the > individual. As Sun is a graha, it binds through conditioning and feeling > that this consciousness is individual! This is the binding nature of the > Sun. > > Manas never dissolves into the Atman. Manas is never there for the Atman, > therefore there is no dissolving back. This the limitation of any language > and therefore, such words are used. The thoughts are born out of a want for > fulfillment of the self, as one cannot accept limitation (this is due to the > fact that one's nature is Satyam Jnanam Anantam). This desire moves to > fulfill itself and be complete. When such a notion is finished and Brahma > Vidya dawns, there is no more running. Only residual prarabdha functions. > > When a musician sings, he dissociates his ego and finds love and devotion. > This is possible not only for a musician but for almost everyone on this > forum. > > I am sorry I have to discuss the above words over the internet. Upanishads > should be studied with reverence and not like this. > > There are no multiple charts.As the > brain cannot hold all the relationships a planet is having with 12 > Rashis,we seperate each kind of relationship(sthoola sookshma sambandha) > as a seperate entity(chart). > > Sthoola Sookshma Sambanda I understand very well and agree. Now when we say > Sookshma, what do we mean? Sookshma is the one that is free from the > sthoola. So pranamaya kosha is independent and free of sthoolamaya kosha. If > your heart is beating it is because pranas are functioning on their own. No > sambandha is required. If in the prana chart (suppose we can recognize which > one it is), if we see problems and malefics, we can find out the root of > heart problem. No need for the D1 chart! (You'd probably call me mad now, > but I am just showing you that the possibility exist) > > Rasi is the Sthoola Sarira and as "Yat Pinde Tat Brahmande" principle > applies so Rasi is also the external to Sthoola Sarira. > > Rashi the structure(chariot) is Sthoolashareera and one rashi is same as one > bhava, though with a small conceptual difference.Rashi needs prana(got > through planets,which in turn is from soorya) and other sookshama shareera > entities for functioning.Think of Rashi as the chariot along with > Krishna,Arjuna,Horses,reins etc,while thinking of Bhavas. > > I agree that Rashi and Bhava are same. The 2nd statement is a huge > assumption. The Sthoola Sarira needs Prana true but can the Sthoola Sarira > show the functioning of the Prana? The Prana are independent of the Sthoola > Sarira so Sthoola Sarira shall show the result and Prana is the cause. > > Rashi can only show the result of the Prana on Sthoola Sarira and not the > cause. It will not show which Prana isn't functioning and why. And what > about the interrelationships between the Mind and the Pranas. The Sthoola > Sarira shall show nothing of it. > > Another exercise here: > If we have Sun as the conditioned consciousness (not the Atman), Moon as the > mind, Jupiter as the values and memory, Mercury as the Buddhi, can you > divide the other planets into their functions of Pranas? > > One planet has many roles(It is like a variable).When we see it from a > 30 degree span it relates to Kshethra.When we see it from a 3.2 degree > span,it is relating to navamshas or pranas.Think like this - When we see > from a sthoola position Krishna is just a charioteer.But when we see > from a sookshma perspective,Krishna is intelligence.But it is the same > Krishna sitting in the same Chariot.So are planets.Instead of seeing > Krishna as an ''Intelligent Charioteer'' in the same Chariot ,we are > trying to bring in another chariot(another chart). In reality there are > only 12 Bhavas (aadheya tattwam) and 12 Rashis(Aadhara tattwa) and 9 > planetary entities. > > If we take 30 degree as Kshetra, then how do 3.2 degree become the prana. In > one sentence you are proving the sameness of Kshetra (the environment) with > the Prana (the planet itself). The Planet do not define the Kshetra, it is > the Bhava that defines the Kshetra. Similarly 3.2 degree is a Kshetra for > the Prana (if Navamsa shows Prana), following that logic. > > The Kshetra of the Prana and the Manas is not another chariot. It is evident > from above. The Kshetra of the Prana and Manas prevades the chariot and is > much bigger. The Upanishad is very clear about the same. > > For the Sthoola Sarira, there are only 12 bhavas of 30 degrees. Can you say > the same for Pranas and Manas? From the view of Manas there is a different > world, for example, Swapna world has nothing to do with Sthoola Sarira, > where will it go. Where is its Kshetram? and where will Anandmaya Kosha go > and its Kshetram of Deep Sleep. > > > You can never take a group of trimshamshas and analyze them as > bhavas.They are just indriyas,alone.Indriyas cannot act in isolation,but > only in relation with manas - which is in turn is part of > mind(manas,chitta,budhi,ahamkara).You have to study them in relation to > other entities. > Would the above involve Sthoola Sarira D1 Chart? See , this is what I have > been trying to convey. > > > Same is the case with navamshas.Prana supplies vital > energies.If a planet has joined debilitation,rashi through navamsha > sambandha -it is showing lack of a particular prana support.See the > bhava for which this planet is a lord and also its karakattwa to study > results. > This I agree with. As I have already mentioned here we have no contention. > > Please try to understand the concept of Bhava.It is the unison of Atma > and Manas.Other constituents,are just facilitators.HOLISTIC approach > alone can take us towards Sakshathkaara.Hope you will give a patient > ear. > Atma and Manas do not have a unison as it is explained above. Atman is > foreover free from the manas. The Bhava is not the unison between the two. > The Kshetra is born out of the Nature. Here you need to understand one more > thing: > > The mind has many desires. They require a Kshetram. The Lord provides for > such a Kshetram that is best for the resultant of these desires. (This is > theory of Karma as propounded by the Veda, only to understand the limitation > of Karma). Therefore, Kshetram is not the mind. Atman prevades both the mind > and the Kshetram and is unattached to both. > Again, your words carry so many concepts that I will need many days to > explain everything in order. A systematic study of Vedanta is a must for > every budding astrologer and unless that is done, there are bound to be > assumptions that are harmful for the growth of understanding of Astrology as > a subject. > > You will always have my patient ear and again I applaud you on a healthy > discussion. > > Please think about the same and see how there exists a possibility of the > divisional charts being studied. Another suggestion is, in doing so do not > worry about your earlier stance, etc. Those who think they know how to study > divisional charts, may be doing it all wrong. So do not worry about them. > Think in this new light. > > Incidently today my elder daughter, who is almost six years old, asked me > -"Papa, when you are asleep, do you know that time that you are asleep?". > Looks like it is my day of answering the most profound questions. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > On 2/21/06, vijayadas_pradeep vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > Dear Bharat ji Namaskar > > > > There is no amount of hatred.If rosha is present,it is only for a higher > > cause.With time and grace let us be able to learn and control.Thanks for > > your kind words and let the almighty make our journey easier. > > > > >>Whether the lagna chart is showing the Sthoola Sarira or it is the > > resultant Jiva? I would love >>to hear your views. It could be both and > > each would raise a volley of questions. If it is the >>resultant jiva, > > then, why study the divisional chart >>at all. Why, even, go to the > > Navamsha? >>If it is the Sthoola Sarira, then, why use it too much as > > most can be gathered >>through the >>divisional chart? > > > > Good questions. > > I would request you to re-read what you might have already read > > regarding Bhagawan Krishna & Arjuna.It will clear all our doubts.Think > > of soul as jivatma in the current context,sitting inside the > > chariot.What is the meaning of charioteer.It is intelligence.krishna had > > taken over the control of intelligence from Arjuna(false > > identification).Horses are Indriyas.The reins represent operations of > > the mind.If the charioteer does not apply control,the horses may run > > wherever they want.Also if reins(mind) are left alone after an initial > > operation,the horses will keep on running as per the initial > > instruction.Intelligence corresponds with indriyas through > > manas.Intelligence can sometimes be clouded and can act based on > > senses.Thus withdrawal of senses,can result in true intelligence,if it > > is weak as per jataka. > > > > Thus chariot is sthoola shareera.but Chariot has no life or movement if > > it is devoid of the above said entities -collectively called as Sookshma > > shareera. > > > > Atma has no desire.It is upto 'Us' to go back to our real Us- > > ''Atma''.But Atma and Manas do have Paraspara ashrayatwa.Becasue atma > > joins or follows manas, wherever he is taking,as an observer.(Think of > > the soul in the chariot moving along with the movement of chariot which > > is according to the direction from manas on to the horses(indriyas)).A > > musician can sing with sublime bhava upon, forgetting of mind.Manas > > dissolving in Atma is complete Bhava. In astrology strength of Sun gives > > Atma bala and moon,manobala.Due to Paraspara aashrayatwa,strength of one > > entity will result in the strength of the other. > > > > Thus coming back to your question -There are no multiple charts.As the > > brain cannot hold all the relationships a planet is having with 12 > > Rashis,we seperate each kind of relationship(sthoola sookshma sambandha) > > as a seperate entity(chart).Rashi the structure(chariot) is > > Sthoolashareera and one rashi is same as one bhava, though with a small > > conceptual difference.Rashi needs prana(got through planets,which in > > turn is from soorya) and other sookshama shareera entities for > > functioning.Think of Rashi as the chariot along with > > Krishna,Arjuna,Horses,reins etc,while thinking of Bhavas. > > > > One planet has many roles(It is like a variable).When we see it from a > > 30 degree span it relates to Kshethra.When we see it from a 3.2 degree > > span,it is relating to navamshas or pranas.Think like this - When we see > > from a sthoola position Krishna is just a charioteer.But when we see > > from a sookshma perspective,Krishna is intelligence.But it is the same > > Krishna sitting in the same Chariot.So are planets.Instead of seeing > > Krishna as an ''Intelligent Charioteer'' in the same Chariot ,we are > > trying to bring in another chariot(another chart). In reality there are > > only 12 Bhavas (aadheya tattwam) and 12 Rashis(Aadhara tattwa) and 9 > > planetary entities. > > > > You can never take a group of trimshamshas and analyze them as > > bhavas.They are just indriyas,alone.Indriyas cannot act in isolation,but > > only in relation with manas - which is in turn is part of > > mind(manas,chitta,budhi,ahamkara).You have to study them in relation to > > other entities.Same is the case with navamshas.Prana supplies vital > > energies.If a planet has joined debilitation,rashi through navamsha > > sambandha -it is showing lack of a particular prana support.See the > > bhava for which this planet is a lord and also its karakattwa to study > > results. > > > > Please try to understand the concept of Bhava.It is the unison of Atma > > and Manas.Other constituents,are just facilitators.HOLISTIC approach > > alone can take us towards Sakshathkaara.Hope you will give a patient > > ear.You can ofcourse still disagree,provided you have supporting logic. > > > > Regds > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > hinduastrology@ wrote: > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Pradeep > > > > > > First of all I must say what I have not said so far - You can make > > people > > > think and also make them study the classics before they reply to you. > > I > > > admire your questions and even if you are not open to existence of > > certain > > > ideas (due to lack of reference in classics or logic or reasoning > > regarding > > > the idea or else), your approach is worthy of praise. > > > > > > Before we begin this journey, a small prayer: > > > > > > OM SAHANA VAVATU SAHANA BHUNATTU, SAHA VIRYAM KARAWAVAHAI > > > TEJASVINAVADITAMASTU MA VIDVISHAVAHAI > > > OM SHANTI ! SHANTI ! SHANTI ! > > > > > > * Together may be be protected > > > Together may we be nourished > > > Together may we work with great energy > > > May our journey together be brilliant and effective > > > May there be no hatred between us > > > > > > * > > > Now, back to our discussion. Let us not discuss charts here and > > understand > > > the concepts: > > > > > > Though, 5 are the vital functions of Prana,the secondary ones too are > > > part of sookshma shareera. > > > I agreed with you even in my previous email. So no contention over > > here. > > > > > > > > > In Jyotisha,we are studying the confluence of numerous entities,for eg > > > sookshma shareera,comprising of navapranas,dasha indriyas,manas and > > > budhi along with sthoola shareera.Pranas alone or indriyas alone > > cannot > > > make a meaning.All the entities have to act in coordination.The order > > or > > > samyoga krama from atma onwards is as follows.Atma joins Manas,Manas > > to > > > Indriyas,Indriyas to Vishayas(loosely translation ''subjects''),then > > > vishaya sukha etc. > > > > > > There are so many concepts in this one paragraph that I will need > > couple of > > > days to explain. Let me make some humble beginnings: > > > > > > 1. Action is not only that of the Sthoola Sarira. Each thought is > > likened to > > > an Action. To understand this, think of a person who becomes fearful > > of an > > > external situation. The fear is in the mind and it causes the > > discrimination > > > to vanish (vijnanamaya kosha) and it has effects on the (pranamaya > > kosha) > > > and through it on the (annamaya kosha). But if you think, fear is only > > in > > > the Mind. It is the action of the mind. Confluence of numerous > > entities is > > > fine, but, Veda is clear about cause and effect and in that we can see > > what > > > is going on in the manomaya kosha, that may or may not fructify into > > actual > > > physical action. If there was a way, we could understand that, would > > it not > > > be extremely helpful for any native? > > > > > > 2. Pranas and Jnana Indriyas have a great meaning alone. Blockages to > > prana > > > will give rise to disease in the Sthoola Sarira. I am taking a > > hypothetical > > > example - let's suppose one varga defines the functioning of apana and > > that > > > is showing defects, would it not mean directly that Sthoola Sarira > > will such > > > a disease? I think, through the varga we are going into the roots of > > things. > > > Remember what the Upanishad say, Prana prevade the sthoola sarira. > > This > > > means they are independent of the Sthoola Sarira and secondly, they > > are not > > > necessarily contained within the Sthoola Sarira. Now if some is deaf > > and > > > dumb or blind, the influence of those indriyas in not in the manomaya > > kosha. > > > How can you say with sureity that Prana and indriyas alone do not have > > any > > > meaning? That there are inter dependencies is fine, but causes lie > > deep > > > within through the kosas. > > > > > > 3. All entities may not act in coordination. This is the imbalance > > through > > > the manomaya kosha or pranamaya kosha. > > > > > > 4. Atma never joins the Manas. Atma is forever free. Atman is Brahman > > > (Mahavakya). Then, why do we call Atman and Brahman while referring it > > to > > > the same thing. It is because of our own limited thinking. Atman is > > referred > > > to the Truth while talking of the Self. While Brahman is spoken of as > > the > > > Truth while talking of the entirety. This does not make them different > > > entities. > > > Atma is Omnipresent and Omniscient, and therefore, it enlivens as > > cognition > > > in the mind. Mind is the collection of thoughts. It is born out of the > > > thought that I am not the whole. This "I" thought is the ego. > > Therefore, ego > > > takes a collection of thoughts and calls it one's mind. How is ego > > evident - > > > throught the light of Atma, how is mind evident - through the light of > > Atma. > > > > > > > > > Remember the verse of the Upanishad and of Aparokshanubhuti - Asti > > bhati > > > priyam rupam, naam ........ Aadhatriyam brahma rupam jagat rupam tato > > dvayam > > > (please do not mind my english transliteration). The existence, > > knowledge > > > and bliss of anything is of the nature of Brahman, whereas, nama and > > rupa is > > > the nature of the jagat (world). So that mind exists, and thought > > exists - > > > the existence is the quality of Atman but that we define a thought and > > give > > > a name to it, is born out of maya. > > > > > > Therefore, for Atma there is no mind. For the mind, it has to > > disengage from > > > the desiring activities to the entity that enlivens it, to have some > > idea of > > > Atma. (This is a very basic idea here just to intellectually have an > > idea of > > > Atman) > > > > > > Atma just goes where the manas is taking him. > > > Atman prevades vijnanamaya kosha and all objects and beings. Mind > > cannot > > > take it anywhere. Where mind goes, Atman is there already (many > > references > > > in Upanishad). > > > > > > 5. Mind is the controller of Indriyas in light of the Atman. Without > > its > > > light, indriyas would go out of control. For a moment, let us bring > > Dharma > > > instead of Atman. Dharma is vijnanamaya kosha. If Dharma isn't guiding > > the > > > mind, then mind cannot reign in the senses and that will result in > > > passionate actions. If one of the vargas is showing vijnana maya kosha > > and > > > another the manomaya kosha, their interaction will show whether or not > > the > > > native will follow Dharma while pursuing Artha and Kama. Is it not? > > > > > > Now, why are we making such an assumption? Is it a new theory? > > > Jyotish as a shastra is subservient to Vedas. If Vedas have given the > > > panchkoshas, there has to be its relevance in the charts. You also > > agree to > > > the same and only object to seeing the koshas separately (which is > > akin to > > > seeing the divisional charts separately). > > > > > > The underlying discussion should be held: > > > Whether the lagna chart is showing the Sthoola Sarira or it is the > > resultant > > > Jiva? I would love to hear your views. It could be both and each would > > raise > > > a volley of questions. If it is the resultant jiva, then, why study > > the > > > divisional chart at all. Why, even, go to the Navamsha? If it is the > > Sthoola > > > Sarira, then, why use it too much as most can be gathered through the > > > divisional chart? > > > > > > Mind as you have said has many functions - Budhi,Ahamkara,Chitta and > > > Manas.Manas is very important as it has a big role in directing our > > > indriyas.But as chitta,is past impressions stored,it can act with > > > guidance from Budhi (discriminator),to give proper signals to the > > > manas.For the same reason it is said,Guru aspecting 5th lord is Budhi > > > Madhurya(Dr.B.V.Raman 300 imp cominations).5th lords disposition from > > > Brihaspati is also important - It shows whether the instructions from > > > Brihaspati (Jnana Sukha karaka)can be received or not.Whenever we are > > > analyzing or trying to perceive,budhi interacts with chitta, to study > > > based on past impressions.These are passed on to manas.Manas process > > > these along with impressions(ongoing) gathered through > > > indriyas.Brihaspati is Jnana as well as Sukha Karaka.Budha is Jnana > > > Swarupa and karaka for ''Vak''.As we know control of indriyas,or > > > withdrawal is the only way, for taming the mind.But Mind is such a > > > thing, that is so difficult to control.Here Budhi & Chitta can be > > handy, > > > as mentioned above.Thus we may have to gain Vairagya through > > > practise,obeying to budhi. > > > > > > This is huge and I am already getting fatiqued. I wish you were here > > with me > > > discussing this, atleast I wouldn't have to type all. Nonetheless, let > > me > > > get started again: > > > > > > Budhi: discriminating, reasoning, judging faculty. Budhi judges based > > on its > > > understanding. The principles of Dharma should guide Buddhi. To > > discriminate > > > and follow, it needs the light of Truth or the reasoning why to follow > > > Dharma. The light is provided by Sun, that is why Mercury "tries" to > > be > > > close to Sun. This is the BudhaAditya Yoga. Jupiter is the store house > > of > > > intelligence and provides deep thinking on each stimuli. It, > > therefore, > > > represents Dharma. > > > > > > The Manas may or may not refer a matter to Budhi (most reactive stance > > are > > > manas acting alone). Budhi comes into play only if Manas lets it. Only > > if > > > Budhi is referred too, Dharma can come into play. Under Gajakesari > > Yoga, the > > > instincts of Dharma become strong and therefore, without referring to > > Budhi, > > > a person is able to do Dharmic actions. As Jupiter signifies Dharma, > > and > > > Dharma is the true way to lasting sukha, therefore it is the Sukha > > Karaka. > > > > > > To explain the above, we do not need the houses. The houses will > > provide the > > > sthoola Sarira the Kshetra of expression. Karma has to come from the > > graha. > > > By not providing the adequate Kshetra, the graha is unfilled or > > > disappointed. This is what happens if you see Jupiter is Kshetra of > > learning > > > and intelligence - it is brilliant. In Kshetra of war and Adharma, > > it's > > > expression is unfulfilled. > > > > > > Now the question comes - What do the signs and houses of Vargas > > provide - > > > Internal Kshetram? Subtle Kshetram? Is there no possibility of the > > same? > > > Now, if you understand that Prana and Manas is prevading beyond the > > boundary > > > of the sthoola sarira, this could mean a lot. Frankly, I have no clue > > now on > > > what the results would be. I require help over here and we need to > > research > > > (that is why I was certain of research). Another thing, re-search > > means > > > searching for something that already is, and, not for something > > altogether > > > new. > > > > > > The sookshma shareera spans across numerous koshas.Thus it may not be > > > easy to group or confine them within certain koshas as you have > > > mentioned.Eg.If Vargamshas from Kshethra to Dwadashamsha are > > > Annamaya,then how do you include navamshas which are > > > navapranas.Pranamaya Kosha is supposed to have pranas.But as i am not > > > sure,i am refraining from making comments. > > > I may be wrong. I agree and only need support that we all research > > together > > > instead of totally dismissing the idea. > > > > > > I may be wrong or right.But i am depending on classics to arrive at > > > conclusions.I do not have courage to frame theories.If you are > > > certain,you may kindly explain how nava pranas taken together can > > result > > > in a Bhava.My understanding is to think of, how pranas are infleuncing > > a > > > bhava.Classical examples too demonstrate the same. > > > You are free to hold your opinion and can correct me,with classics or > > > logic. > > > Till I discover BrahmaVidya, I will be wrong. My certainity lies in > > that the > > > vargas can be used separately. How to use them, I am uncertain. My > > logic and > > > reasoning points to their usage. Furthermore, how the vargas are being > > > analyzed in many books, I am uncertain if they are true too. > > > > > > I thank you for this free exchange and hope I do not get tired easily. > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/21/06, vijayadas_pradeep vijayadas_pradeep@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Bharat ji Namaskar > > > > > > > > Thanks for the detailed explanations and Koshas. > > > > Though, 5 are the vital functions of Prana,the secondary ones too > > are > > > > part of sookshma shareera.Dhananjaya is excepeted for the reason > > > > mentioned in the previous mail,and hence the other nine are related > > to > > > > navamshas. > > > > In Jyotisha,we are studying the confluence of numerous entities,for > > eg > > > > sookshma shareera,comprising of navapranas,dasha indriyas,manas and > > > > budhi along with sthoola shareera.Pranas alone or indriyas alone > > cannot > > > > make a meaning.All the entities have to act in coordination.The > > order or > > > > samyoga krama from atma onwards is as follows.Atma joins Manas,Manas > > to > > > > Indriyas,Indriyas to Vishayas(loosely translation ''subjects''),then > > > > vishaya sukha etc. > > > > > > > > Atma just goes where the manas is taking him.Manas directs indriyas > > and > > > > indriyas associates with various vishayas and pleasures. > > > > Mind as you have said has many functions - Budhi,Ahamkara,Chitta and > > > > Manas.Manas is very important as it has a big role in directing our > > > > indriyas.But as chitta,is past impressions stored,it can act with > > > > guidance from Budhi (discriminator),to give proper signals to the > > > > manas.For the same reason it is said,Guru aspecting 5th lord is > > Budhi > > > > Madhurya(Dr.B.V.Raman 300 imp cominations).5th lords disposition > > from > > > > Brihaspati is also important - It shows whether the instructions > > from > > > > Brihaspati (Jnana Sukha karaka)can be received or not.Whenever we > > are > > > > analyzing or trying to perceive,budhi interacts with chitta, to > > study > > > > based on past impressions.These are passed on to manas.Manas process > > > > these along with impressions(ongoing) gathered through > > > > indriyas.Brihaspati is Jnana as well as Sukha Karaka.Budha is Jnana > > > > Swarupa and karaka for ''Vak''.As we know control of indriyas,or > > > > withdrawal is the only way, for taming the mind.But Mind is such a > > > > thing, that is so difficult to control.Here Budhi & Chitta can be > > handy, > > > > as mentioned above.Thus we may have to gain Vairagya through > > > > practise,obeying to budhi. > > > > > > > > The sookshma shareera spans across numerous koshas.Thus it may not > > be > > > > easy to group or confine them within certain koshas as you have > > > > mentioned.Eg.If Vargamshas from Kshethra to Dwadashamsha are > > > > Annamaya,then how do you include navamshas which are > > > > navapranas.Pranamaya Kosha is supposed to have pranas.But as i am > > not > > > > sure,i am refraining from making comments. > > > > > > > > But if you can close your eyes and think for few seconds,you can > > > > perceive what a Bhava is(Also think of Bhava in Nritta and Sangeetha > > - > > > > The art forms are expressions arising out of internal and external > > > > harmony.When one forgets about mind,True Bhava manifests with Laya > > or > > > > flow).It is the simultaneous functioniong of numerous entities.Think > > of > > > > the functioning of human system.A body(sthoola) simultaneously > > working > > > > with prana,indriya,manas,budhi,ahamkara etc can only have a > > Bhava.Prana > > > > alone does not have any bhava - so is manas - it has to get > > impressions > > > > from indriyas or past ones from chitta.How we are able to derive > > each > > > > and every amsha from individual rashis, holds the conclusion.A rashi > > is > > > > a sumtotal of all these.Planets are giving life,which they in turn > > have > > > > gained from Soorya.Purusha manifests as Prana. > > > > > > > > I may be wrong or right.But i am depending on classics to arrive at > > > > conclusions.I do not have courage to frame theories.If you are > > > > certain,you may kindly explain how nava pranas taken together can > > result > > > > in a Bhava.My understanding is to think of, how pranas are > > infleuncing a > > > > bhava.Classical examples too demonstrate the same. > > > > You are free to hold your opinion and can correct me,with classics > > or > > > > logic. > > > > > > > > Regds > > > > Pradeep > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > > hinduastrology@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > It is no use giving simple explanations on the forum. > > > > > > > > > > Taittirya Upanishad Chapter XIII: Than that, verily -than this one > > > > formed of > > > > > Prana -there is another self within formed of Manas. By Him this > > one > > > > is > > > > > filled. > > > > > > > > > > When we talk of Jnana indriyas, we talk of two things- organs of > > > > perception > > > > > and their stimuli being registered in the mind. As the indriyas by > > > > itself > > > > > cannot bring Jnana or cognition, it is the Manomaya Kosha or the > > Mind > > > > that > > > > > brings it. The word Jnana indriyas therefore refers to perception. > > To > > > > say > > > > > perception rests with the Mind is okay to say that senses rest > > with > > > > the > > > > > mind, will be incorrect. So Jnana indriyas is another function of > > the > > > > mind > > > > > and a different one from its other functions. It should not be > > taken > > > > as a > > > > > separate organ or a place or else. > > > > > > > > > > The mano maya kosha is the first kosha in the order from gross to > > > > subtle to > > > > > be show cognition as it has more of Sattva Guna as compared to > > > > Pranamaya > > > > > kosha which is mostly Rajas and Anamayakosha that is mostly Tamas. > > So > > > > here > > > > > in lies the instrument of karana sakti, and the bhoga sakti. As of > > > > product > > > > > of Jnana sakti, it has various vrittis. > > > > > > > > > > "Desire, representation, doubt, faith, want of faith, want of > > > > firmness, > > > > > shame, reflection, fear - all in mind" - Brihadaryanka Upanishad > > 1-5-3 > > > > > > > > > > So among many functions Jnana Indriyas is the cognition of > > perception. > > > > But > > > > > senses shall remain in the sthoola sarira. Pranas that prevades > > the > > > > anamaya > > > > > kosha or the sthoola sarira, shall be the sthana of Karma > > Indriyas, > > > > meaning > > > > > the enabling the function of action. It is the carrier of Manomaya > > > > kosha's > > > > > directives to the limbs and organs of actions of the body. Again > > it is > > > > one > > > > > of the functions and not a separate place, or identity. > > > > > > > > > > As Mano-maya kosha prevades the pranamaya kosha, the function of > > > > perception > > > > > shall prevade the pranamaya kosha but the senses itself shall not > > > > prevade > > > > > the pranamaya kosha. As Pranamaya does not have distinct parts, > > just > > > > as in > > > > > manomaya kosha, it is a unity present in every part of the body > > > > performing > > > > > its functions. > > > > > > > > > > Now, I see you mention 10 pranas. It is correct, though generally > > 5 > > > > > prominent ones are used and in the Upanishad these five are > > mentioned. > > > > > (Maitreya Up. 2-6) > > > > > > > > > > Trimshamshas are pancha jnanendriyas.Sun and Moon do not have any > > > > > ownership here.When we think it is clear. > > > > > It is the indriyas through which we are drawing impressions from > > the > > > > > external and hence the cause for evils. > > > > > > > > > > If we see the same, then, what I had suggested to you and the > > forum, > > > > earlier > > > > > could be true. D1-D12 - Anamaya kosha D13-D24 Pranamaya Kosha, > > D25-D36 > > > > > (where in D30 lies) Manomaya Kosha. (This was followed by chat > > with > > > > Sri Hari > > > > > and Sri Parthasarathy too) > > > > > > > > > > Could then, divisional charts (D25-D36) relate to the different > > > > functions of > > > > > the mind? I am certain of two things: > > > > > 1. They can be used separately in view of the above- how we need > > to > > > > find > > > > > out. Possible clues could be checking the cognition of different > > > > stimuli, > > > > > what desires move about, in what the person's faith lies, etc. > > After > > > > all, > > > > > the causes of bodily actions lie in these charts, there is much > > more > > > > to > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > 2. More research is needed. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/19/06, vijayadas_pradeep vijayadas_pradeep@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Anilkumar ji,Arjun ji ,Bharatji Namaskaar > > > > > > > > > > > > EkaVimshopi(21) constituents of Sookshma shareera are composed > > of > > > > > > dwadasha(12) Budhindriyaadis and navapranas. > > > > > > Here 12,Budhi-indriyaadis are Budhi,Manas and 10 Indriyas. > > > > > > > > > > > > Arjun ji as you may be aware,Organs are different from indriyas. > > > > > > 1)Jnanendriyas -smell,taste,see,touch,hear. > > > > > > 2)Karmendriyas -excrete,reproduce,move,grasp,speak. > > > > > > Thus nose,ear,legs etc are the organs corresponding to the above > > 10 > > > > > > indriyas. > > > > > > Nava Pranas are - > > > > > > Pranan,Apanan,Samanan,Vyanan,Udanan,Nagam,Koormam,Krikalam & > > > > > > Devadattam.Tenth Prana Dhananjaya,is for dead bodies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rashi is sthoola shareera ,comprising of Organs.But organs are > > just > > > > > > structures if there is no life.Thus Purusha manifests as Prana. > > > > > > > > > > > > Trimshamshas are pancha jnanendriyas.Sun and Moon do not have > > any > > > > > > ownership here.When we think it is clear. > > > > > > It is the indriyas through which we are drawing impressions from > > the > > > > > > external and hence the cause for evils. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can indriyas alone be considered as a Bhava?No.Bhava is the > > > > confluence > > > > > > of many.We should think how it is possible to study all aspects > > > > > > pertaining to a jataka from ''Rashi Chakra''. > > > > > > This is possible as, one rashi becomes a bhava,when it has a > > lord > > > > w.r > > > > > > to lagna.For properly understanding the functioning of each > > Bhava,we > > > > > > have to see the subtle infleunces on bhava nathas.Each subtle > > > > > > infleunce will have a role,for eg,navamsha infleunce is > > > > corresponding > > > > > > to kalathra,bhagya etc. > > > > > > Thus sookshma shareera acts in sync with corresponding sthoola > > > > > > shareera organs.Trying to study them in isolation or considering > > > > Bhava > > > > > > there is beyond my understanding.Others who have understood may > > > > > > explain for better comprehension.We should think why we do not > > have > > > > > > shlokas to support bhavas in vargamsha groupings.Why is > > Vargottama > > > > > > important?Any planet is a Bhavanatha or karaka.When he is having > > > > > > similar subtle and gross infleuences,shubha results. > > > > > > > > > > > > When time permits ,i can share some more from the works of > > > > > > Mahamunis,if it is helpful for you.Mind - and its > > > > > > constituents,improtance of chitta(past impressions and),Budhi, > > > > > > Ahamkara etc.Chitta is also 5th house and PoorvaPunya. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > panditarjun2004@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > namaste bharat ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i am looking at how to read from the signs, houses or planets > > on > > > > all > > > > > > > kinds of indriyas (not body organs). we all learnt how bodily > > > > parts > > > > > > > are read from various houses starting from head from langa to > > feet > > > > > > > in the 12th. please share on reading of these indriyas > > (sensory > > > > and > > > > > > > non-sensory) from a sign/house/planet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the two nadis ida and pingala are related to sun and moon. > > > > > > > similarly please share how the five vayus are read in > > astrology. > > > > i > > > > > > > understand that the seven chakras (mooladhara, svadhisthana, > > > > > > > manipuraka, anahata, vishuddha, ajna and sahasrara) can also > > be > > > > read > > > > > > > from a chart and have their correlation with signs, houses and > > > > > > > planets. would be grateful if any member share information on > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and regards > > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu > > Astrology" > > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Jnanaindriyas are the five senses of perception. The > > five > > > > > > > karma indriyas > > > > > > > > are organs of speech, hands, legs, organ of procreation, and > > > > organ > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > excretion. The pranamaya kosha (prana, apana, udana, vyana > > and > > > > > > > samana) > > > > > > > > provide the forces that make the indriyas function. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/18/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear anil ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep:Thus Rashis are 12 and they constitue 12 organs > > as > > > > > > > well as > > > > > > > > > > 12 bhavas.Sookshma shareera consists of navapranas and > > 12 > > > > > > > indiryas. > > > > > > > > > > Anil:There are 5 Jnyanendriyas and 5 Karmendriyas so 10 > > > > only. > > > > > > > > > > Please give supporting verses. Organs and Indriyas are > > > > > > > different. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without knowing whether the indriyas are twelve or ten, i > > > > would > > > > > > > request > > > > > > > > > you to give their correlation to signs or houses in > > seriatim > > > > for > > > > > > > me to > > > > > > > > > learn more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes you are right in saying that organs are different from > > > > > > > indriyas and > > > > > > > > > it is organs which we consider for medical astrology. if > > you > > > > > > > share > > > > > > > > > your knowledge on indriyas it would help me understand > > better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > > > > > > > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > > > > > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > > > > > > astrology</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > > > > > > > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > > > > > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > > > > > > horoscope</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > > > > > > > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > > > > > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > > > > > software</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > > > > > > > > > > > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > > > > > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology- > > > > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Terms > > > > of > > > > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > > > > vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > > > > > > hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4\ \ > > \ > > > > &s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > > > > > > gy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software\ \ > > \ > > > > &c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > > > > > > rology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+soft\ \ > > \ > > > > ware&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > > > > > > logy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+softwa\ \ > > \ > > > > re&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group > > > > "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology-@@y\ > > > > ahoogroups.com?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > - Terms of > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > > vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology > > chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > > hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4\ \ > > &s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > > > > > > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > > gy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software\ \ > > &c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > > > > > > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > > rology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+soft\ \ > > ware&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > > logy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+softwa\ \ > > re&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group > > "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > vedic astrology-@y\ > > ahoogroups.com?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > - Terms of > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c\ hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4\ &s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo\ gy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software\ &c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast\ rology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+soft\ ware&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro\ logy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+softwa\ re&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > > on the web. > > > > - > > vedic astrology-@y\ ahoogroups.com?subject=Un> > > > > - Terms of > > Service <>. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > ______________________ ______________________ Message: 5 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:32:32 -0000 "Raghunatha RaoNemani" <raon1008 Re: Valampuri Lakshmi Shank Suppliers Om Krishna Guru Namaste Richard Ji, What is this "Valampuri Lakshmi Shank" ? How does it help a native ? What is the procedure to keep this Shank at home ? I am interested to know answers to those questions, can you please write some details about it or alternatively, please point me to some resource, where I can read my self also. I am sorry, if you have already answered to these basic questions, if you did, kindly point meto the message reference,where I can read about it. Thanks for your help in advance. Regards Raghunatha Rao vedic astrology, Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 wrote: Suppliers of REAL Valampuri Lakshmi Shank Shells 1) G.S.JOHN RAMNATH "omegaa" <omegaa1 2) John Ravi <johnravi OR johnravi_135 3) Chandrashekar Phadki (Sacred Objects Member) --- can provide X-ray proof Good luck to all!!! Om svastyastu!!! Always, buyer beware!!! Best rgds Richard Shaw-Brown, PG Designer & Gemologist ______________________ ______________________ Message: 6 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 16:47:00 +0300 "Menon" <kochu1 Re: Valampuri Lakshmi Shank Suppliers is it really available? what I have seen touted as Valampuri Shakhs are not really Conches at all. onches are heavy and smooth and symmatrical. Shells have lumps and are thin. - Richard Shaw Brown ; ; planetary-gemology ; Rudraksha Club ; sacred-objects ; vedic astrology ; vedic-sacred-objects Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:04 PM [vedic astrology] Valampuri Lakshmi Shank Suppliers Suppliers of REAL Valampuri Lakshmi Shank Shells 1) G.S.JOHN RAMNATH "omegaa" <omegaa1 2) John Ravi <johnravi OR johnravi_135 3) Chandrashekar Phadki (Sacred Objects Member) --- can provide X-ray proof Good luck to all!!! Om svastyastu!!! Always, buyer beware!!! 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Terms of Service. ------- ----- ______________________ ______________________ Message: 7 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:22:34 +0530 "Sarbani Sarkar" <sarbani Michael Mamas Talk Atri SJC invites you to a lecture by Dr. Michael Mamas "Spirituality: The Path of Discernment" on 4th March, 2006, 5:00 to 7 :00 p.m. at India International Centre, 40, Max Mueller Marg, New Delhi Chair: Dr. Wagish Shukla, Professor of Mathematics, IIT, New Delhi and scholar, Indic Studies. Contact: 9810449850, 25717162, 09350812002 Spirituality: The Path of Discernment What is it that truly moves a person forward in their evolution? What might we be doing in the name of our spirituality that actually impedes it? It is one thing to know all about the Vedas and to behave accordingly. It is quite another t embody the Vedas. Humility is the flip side of wisdom. You are invited to leave your identities at the door. About Dr. Michael Mamas (http://www.TheGoldenFrog.com, http://www.michaelmamas.com) Michael Mamas (author of The Golden Frog) dedicates his life to helping people uncover and discover their full human potential by facilitating the natural development of human consciousness. He simplifies complex and abstract concepts so they can easily be understood by everyone. His unique way of teaching enables people to not only get an intellectual understanding of the subject, but to experience the meaning of his words within the depth of their own being. Michael addresses all fields of human interest. Areas of thought that are often seen as conflicted are brought together. For example, diverse and apparently contradictory religious teachings are unified while enhancing their individual integrity. Eastern and Western thought are embraced while cultural integrity is nourished. Pure science is united with sublime spirituality while maintaining their distinction. All areas of life (e.g., science, psychology, spirituality/religion, anthropology, economics, etc.) harmonize together in a way that satisfies the intellect and soothes the soul. Michael Mamas' unique concepts in personal development address the needs of any audience - from the corporate business environment or the average person on the street to those on a spiritual quest. Born and raised in Ohio he attended Ohio State University. He was an honors student in physics and mathematics prior to obtaining a Doctorate degree in Veterinary Medicine and a Masters degree in Business Administration. Michael's lifelong search for wisdom led him to seek out and study under great thinkers of the United States, India, Europe, China and the Philippines. The wisdom and knowledge he gained compelled him to derive a more profound and practical approach to health, one that transcends both traditional and alternative approaches. Out of this knowledge, Michael developed a revolutionary new approach to psychological health, one that is based upon the fundamental nature of life. Today, Michael dedicates his life to bringing forth a wiser and more refined understanding of human development to society. He lectures internationally offering a variety of programs <http://www.michaelmamas.com/programs.html> , including meditation retreats. As a Westerner who was immersed in eastern wisdom for more than a decade, he naturally integrates ancient knowledge with modern thought. ______________________ ______________________ Message: 8 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:05:53 -0000 "Sreenadh" <sreelid A Qn. Dear All, I have posted some mails and no body seems to be discussing them. Is it that, none is interested in the same and I should stop discussing those subjects? Love, Sreenadh ______________________ ______________________ Message: 9 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:06:26 -0000 "Sreenadh" <sreelid A Qn. Dear All, I have posted some mails and none seems to be discussing them. Is it that, no one is interested in the same and I should stop discussing those subjects? Love, Sreenadh ______________________ ______________________ Message: 10 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:26:21 +0000 (GMT) Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 Ratna Dana Vidhi: COMPLETE INFO LINK http://www.agt-gems.com/Book/Appendage/Appendage.html Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. ______________________ ______________________ Message: 11 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:52:49 +0530 "Sanjay Rath" <guruji Michael Mamas Talk Talk by Dr Michael Mamas on 4 March 2006 at India International Center A flyer on the forthcoming talks is attached. It is free and all are welcome to listen to the thoughts of a genius mind - Dr Michael Mamas lectures on "Spirituality: The Path of Discernment" and Dr. Wagish Shukla, Professor of Mathematics, Indian Institute of Technology, New Delhi and scholar, Indic Studies is in the Chair. With best compliments from Pt. Sanjay Rath www.srath.com ______________________ ______________________ Message: 12 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 16:39:50 -0000 "Sreenadh" <sreelid Sun in Aris in Natal chart - Let us predict - An excersise Dear All, You can consider this as another step of the "Let us predict (with Lagna alone)" exercise we have done earlier. Think that the only thing we know about a horoscope is that, Sun is placed in Aries. What are the things we can predict about the native based on this info alone? Let us play. Let us try to make it a worthy exercise. If anyone is interested in the same, I would joyously participate in this exercise, as a team mate. I invite all the knowledgeable dear friends like Pradeep, RK Dash, Guruji Dakshnamoorthi, Pandit ji, Praveen, Anil ji, Nemani ji, and all the other true researchers to participate in this exercise. Let us bring out the possibilities. If you felt that the "Let us predict with Lagna alone" was a worthy exercise, then let us joyously participate in this exercise as well, and let us enjoy the beauty of astrology. Points to remember: ------------------- 1) The only thing we know about the horoscope is that Su is placed in Aries. 2) Only the Sign and Planet would be considered in prediction. 3) Karakathwas of the Sign, and Karakathwas of Planet can be extensively used. (i.e. The Meterials-Places-Events-Qualities-Persons- Organs-Diseases-Emotions-Gods etc that Aries and Sun signify becomes important and can be extensively used in prediction). 4)The concepts such as Kalapurusha, Yugadi, Charadi, Bhoothadi etc classification of signs can be used. 5) Remember that we are trying to explore the Natal chart and NOT the presna or Muhoortha chart. 6) Any info that is outside these pre-set boundaries should not be used. Hope that at least some would find this exercise beneficial. I am eagerly waiting for the response from all directions. Love, Sreenadh ______________________ ______________________ Message: 13 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 22:26:02 +0530 "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology Re: Krishna the charioteer and Arjuna -Bharat ji -Indriyas/Manas etc. Namaskaar Sri Pradeep AUM! All the answers for your queries,are in Bhagawat Gita.When Lord Krishna HIMSELF has explained them in detail,i do not think any one has to elaborate further. If I may say so, the query was yours. I used the Upanishads to explain the same. Bhagavad Gita is one of the finest expositions on the Upanishads and it does not alter the saying of the Upanishad. Bhagwan has explained to Arjuna on how to fix ones mind on HIM.What i have told is nothing more.We have to understand the difference between jivatma and Paramatma here.We are talking about jivatma,which is a spark of the very Paramatma. Is the drop of water in an ocean separate from the ocean? When inside the Ocean do you see water everywhere or do you see droplets of water separately? When we talk on infinite lord, do you see any parts in it? When you see infinite space - can you divide it? The room space, wall space, garden space, city space is after all space. Jivatma does not refer to a separate Atma but the notion of it in the mind. Please this is the difference. Finally mind will dissolve and just the Atma remains which will unite jivatma and Paramtma. If such was the case, then, every night in deep sleep they would unite as mind is not there. Read Mandukya Upanishad with Sri Gaupada's Karika. The notion dissolving is not the mind dissolving. Do trees have to vanish for me to see Atman? Did Ramakrishna Paramhansa not see people around him? Budhi is the mediator here.Please don't get distracted by various translations of Gita.Just think how we are breaking sheaths one by one and joining HIM.This is dissolving of mind in Atma - total dissolution is assimilation. I am not going by translations of Srimad Bhagavat Gita. I am going by the teachings of the Upanishad. I have given many references of the same. Kindly do not reject those teachings are mere interpretations of translators! The teachings have been given with complete logic and reasoning. Breaking sheaths amount to saying that pranas do not function in a Jeevan Mukta. This statement is totally against the Upanishads. Kindly give reference either in the Upanishads or the Bhagavad Gita. Atma knows everything as it is part of the Pure Bodha or Consciousness.Bhava is thus the joining of Atma and Manas. Look at the contradiction - If you say Atma is a part of Consciousness, then it would be perishable. As it is limited and not infinite. You are going against the very basis of Mahavakya - Atman is Brahman. Pradeep, please do not take in the wrong manner, but it would do you good if you study the above subjects carefully under guidance of a Guru. I can suggest you some books to start with, to make things easier. It is these errors that are making you question again and again. If you feel I do not understand (even intellectually) the Upanishads or the Bhagavad Gita, then, the discussion should stop here. However, if you understand that I know something, then you can ask n number of questions. I will only initiate this learning process if you approach as a learner and not as a challenger. A musician can sing based on lower intellectual analysis or higher influence.When it is lower,he concentrates or just repeats the techniques as taught.But in the higher state he forgets mind and music comes from Atma.It will come from within.Bhava can result only with that. When one sings because it comes naturally, then it is the highest form. The desire for appreciation, etc is absent in such a case. In doing so, why do you personalize Atman as that of a musician just because he has broken identification from the mind. This example does not in any case prove that there are separate Atmans floating around. Bhava is thus the joining of Atma and Manas.Musician was just an example.Think of the act smile.We can smile just with lip movement or lip plus chin,cheeks,facial muscles etc.But the smile is not having bhava if it not coming from within.Then there is a confluence. In the above case, as the limitedness of Manas is disassociated with, therefore the Bhava comes, not because of the joining of the two! How can an Omnipresent join or remove from anything? First verse of Isa Upanishad - All that is there, is verily the Lord! Therefore, the concept of Jivatman is a notion. Do not build the entire theory of bhava on a false notion. This is serious confusion and you must talk to a Siddha Guru regarding the same. There is a frequent example in the Upanishads about the rope and the snake. This example states that if in a dark corner a rope lies and if you see it as a snake, then, your mind is superimposing the idea of the snake because the base is rope. This is because the imaginary snake borrows shape of the real rope. Here snake is Maya and rope is Brahman. The idea is space and time are endless because Brahman is, so space and time seem that way. This example does not mean that Brahman is Rope! You have taken two examples, that of Chariot and of Jeevatman and converted them into something like the above. To help you understand, if you give me the references of the texts, I'll try and explain to the best of my abilities. Bhava is a kshetra of the Sthoola Sarira if you take Rashi chart as the Sthoola Sarira. If you take it as a sum total of all koshas, then, we have a different discussion at hand. Again, in your analysis you have not touched upon the anandamaya kosha and its kshetram. This is why, we chant Om sahana vavatu before every class. Often, the discussion can get heated as the subject matter is Self. Noone takes kindly to breaking of self imposed notions. Do let me know if you want to systematically study the texts. I can provide you with the basic list before going on to the most powerful Texts. Harih Aum Sri Gurubhyo Namah Hari Aum Thanks and Regards Bharat Hari Aum Tat Sat On 2/22/06, vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > Dear Bharat ji Namaskar > > All the answers for your queries,are in Bhagawat Gita.When Lord Krishna > HIMSELF has explained them in detail,i do not think any one has to > elaborate further. > > Bhagwan has explained to Arjuna on how to fix ones mind on HIM.What i > have told is nothing more.We have to understand the difference between > jivatma and Paramatma here.We are talking about jivatma,which is a spark > of the very Paramatma.Finally mind will dissolve and just the Atma > remains which will unite jivatma and Paramtma.Budhi is the mediator > here.Please don't get distracted by various translations of Gita.Just > think how we are breaking sheaths one by one and joining HIM.This is > dissolving of mind in Atma - total dissolution is assimilation. > > There is a purpose for the creation of mind.Without it the ''game'' is > not possible. > Thus Shiva/Shakthi,Purusha/Prakrithi,Atma/Manas,Surya/Chandra etc have > Paraspara Ashrayatwa or mutual dependency.It is all the same.When we say > ''wherever mind is going'' - it is not a physical displacement.It is > Manovyapara.Atma is the spark of HIM within us.It is just sitting as an > observer,and goes wherever the mind takes him,and remains > unaffected.Budhi is the discriminator,who can decide what is wriong and > what is right.When Budhi is refined,or when the dust and impurities are > removed,Budhi will act as it is supoosed to.Indriyas and Vishaya Sukhas > can cloud Budhi.Once these are tamed,Manas Joins Budhi and then finally > it joins Atma.Total dissolution.Bhagavan has made this crystal clear. > > A musician can sing based on lower intellectual analysis or higher > influence.When it is lower,he concentrates or just repeats the > techniques as taught.But in the higher state he forgets mind and music > comes from Atma.It will come from within.Bhava can result only with > that.Atma knows everything as it is part of the Pure Bodha or > Consciousness.Bhava is thus the joining of Atma and Manas.Musician was > just an example.Think of the act smile.We can smile just with lip > movement or lip plus chin,cheeks,facial muscles etc.But the smile is not > having bhava if it not coming from within.Then there is a > confluence.Word or Vak is supreme.Nada is Supreme.Hence musical > expressions can make us feel Bhava or unison with HIM,atleast for a few > seconds,when striving for perfection. > > Once the concept of Bhava is clear,we can discuss astrological vargas.i > am pretty sure that you have enough intelligence to understand the > same.Whole universe is permeated with his spark.The colelctive feeling > of all these is Supreme Bodha.In Jyotisha one unison of Atma and Manas > is one Bhava.Indriyas,Budhi,Prana etc are facilitators. > > Kind Regds > Pradeep > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > <hinduastrology wrote: > > > > Namaskaar Sri Pradeep > > > > Om Astoma Sad Gamaya. > > Tamasoma Jyothir Gamaya. > > Mrityorma Amritam Gamaya. > > Om Shantih! Shantih! Shantih! > > > > Here I go again: > > > > regarding Bhagawan Krishna & Arjuna.It will clear all our doubts.Think > > of soul as jivatma in the current context,sitting inside the > > chariot.What is the meaning of charioteer.It is intelligence.krishna > had > > taken over the control of intelligence from Arjuna(false > > identification).Horses are Indriyas.The reins represent operations of > > the mind.If the charioteer does not apply control,the horses may run > > wherever they want.Also if reins(mind) are left alone after an initial > > operation,the horses will keep on running as per the initial > > instruction.Intelligence corresponds with indriyas through > > manas.Intelligence can sometimes be clouded and can act based on > > senses.Thus withdrawal of senses,can result in true intelligence,if it > > is weak as per jataka. Thus chariot is sthoola shareera.but Chariot > has no > > life or movement if it is devoid of the above said entities > -collectively > > called as Sookshma > > shareera. > > > > This is a well known analogy and till now I agree. I believe you are > taking > > the lagna chart as the sthoola Sarira (in your comments below) > > > > Atma has no desire.It is upto 'Us' to go back to our real Us- > > ''Atma''.But Atma and Manas do have Paraspara ashrayatwa.Becasue atma > > joins or follows manas, wherever he is taking,as an observer.(Think of > > the soul in the chariot moving along with the movement of chariot > which > > is according to the direction from manas on to the horses(indriyas)). > > Now you have extended the example. This is a common mistake for those > > studying Vedanta. The analogy of the chariot = Sharira, Arjuna being > the > > Jivatma and Krishna meaning identification with the Real self is okay. > It is > > only to explain the individual and show how the senses can destroy a > person > > by misleading him. It also shows with the knowledge of the Self, the > > indriyas function but in their maryada. > > > > Do not go to the level of mind taking Atma for a ride. This will > overturn > > almost all of the Upanishadic statments. As Atma is omnipresent, there > is > > nowhere where it is not. Therefore, wherever the mind goes, it there > > already. It may seem to the mind that Atma is travelling with it, but > then, > > that is the Maya! > > > > A musician can sing with sublime bhava upon, forgetting of mind.Manas > > dissolving in Atma is complete Bhava. In astrology strength of Sun > gives > > Atma bala and moon,manobala.Due to Paraspara aashrayatwa,strength of > one > > entity will result in the strength of the other. > > > > Sun gives atma bala not Atma. How is the bala different? The light of > > consciousness when referred to in an individual is called conditioned > > consciousness. It enlivens the ego thought and the mind. This is the > Atma > > bala and not the bala of Atman that we are referring to above. The > Atman has > > nothing to take from manobala. It is free already and it is > omnipotent. > > Therefore, the Atma bala can only refer to the light or brilliance of > the > > consciousness shining through Sun in our charts that enlivens the > > individual. As Sun is a graha, it binds through conditioning and > feeling > > that this consciousness is individual! This is the binding nature of > the > > Sun. > > > > Manas never dissolves into the Atman. Manas is never there for the > Atman, > > therefore there is no dissolving back. This the limitation of any > language > > and therefore, such words are used. The thoughts are born out of a > want for > > fulfillment of the self, as one cannot accept limitation (this is due > to the > > fact that one's nature is Satyam Jnanam Anantam). This desire moves to > > fulfill itself and be complete. When such a notion is finished and > Brahma > > Vidya dawns, there is no more running. Only residual prarabdha > functions. > > > > When a musician sings, he dissociates his ego and finds love and > devotion. > > This is possible not only for a musician but for almost everyone on > this > > forum. > > > > I am sorry I have to discuss the above words over the internet. > Upanishads > > should be studied with reverence and not like this. > > > > There are no multiple charts.As the > > brain cannot hold all the relationships a planet is having with 12 > > Rashis,we seperate each kind of relationship(sthoola sookshma > sambandha) > > as a seperate entity(chart). > > > > Sthoola Sookshma Sambanda I understand very well and agree. Now when > we say > > Sookshma, what do we mean? Sookshma is the one that is free from the > > sthoola. So pranamaya kosha is independent and free of sthoolamaya > kosha. If > > your heart is beating it is because pranas are functioning on their > own. No > > sambandha is required. If in the prana chart (suppose we can recognize > which > > one it is), if we see problems and malefics, we can find out the root > of > > heart problem. No need for the D1 chart! (You'd probably call me mad > now, > > but I am just showing you that the possibility exist) > > > > Rasi is the Sthoola Sarira and as "Yat Pinde Tat Brahmande" principle > > applies so Rasi is also the external to Sthoola Sarira. > > > > Rashi the structure(chariot) is Sthoolashareera and one rashi is same > as one > > bhava, though with a small conceptual difference.Rashi needs prana(got > > through planets,which in turn is from soorya) and other sookshama > shareera > > entities for functioning.Think of Rashi as the chariot along with > > Krishna,Arjuna,Horses,reins etc,while thinking of Bhavas. > > > > I agree that Rashi and Bhava are same. The 2nd statement is a huge > > assumption. The Sthoola Sarira needs Prana true but can the Sthoola > Sarira > > show the functioning of the Prana? The Prana are independent of the > Sthoola > > Sarira so Sthoola Sarira shall show the result and Prana is the cause. > > > > Rashi can only show the result of the Prana on Sthoola Sarira and not > the > > cause. It will not show which Prana isn't functioning and why. And > what > > about the interrelationships between the Mind and the Pranas. The > Sthoola > > Sarira shall show nothing of it. > > > > Another exercise here: > > If we have Sun as the conditioned consciousness (not the Atman), Moon > as the > > mind, Jupiter as the values and memory, Mercury as the Buddhi, can you > > divide the other planets into their functions of Pranas? > > > > One planet has many roles(It is like a variable).When we see it from a > > 30 degree span it relates to Kshethra.When we see it from a 3.2 degree > > span,it is relating to navamshas or pranas.Think like this - When we > see > > from a sthoola position Krishna is just a charioteer.But when we see > > from a sookshma perspective,Krishna is intelligence.But it is the same > > Krishna sitting in the same Chariot.So are planets.Instead of seeing > > Krishna as an ''Intelligent Charioteer'' in the same Chariot ,we are > > trying to bring in another chariot(another chart). In reality there > are > > only 12 Bhavas (aadheya tattwam) and 12 Rashis(Aadhara tattwa) and 9 > > planetary entities. > > > > If we take 30 degree as Kshetra, then how do 3.2 degree become the > prana. In > > one sentence you are proving the sameness of Kshetra (the environment) > with > > the Prana (the planet itself). The Planet do not define the Kshetra, > it is > > the Bhava that defines the Kshetra. Similarly 3.2 degree is a Kshetra > for > > the Prana (if Navamsa shows Prana), following that logic. > > > > The Kshetra of the Prana and the Manas is not another chariot. It is > evident > > from above. The Kshetra of the Prana and Manas prevades the chariot > and is > > much bigger. The Upanishad is very clear about the same. > > > > For the Sthoola Sarira, there are only 12 bhavas of 30 degrees. Can > you say > > the same for Pranas and Manas? From the view of Manas there is a > different > > world, for example, Swapna world has nothing to do with Sthoola > Sarira, > > where will it go. Where is its Kshetram? and where will Anandmaya > Kosha go > > and its Kshetram of Deep Sleep. > > > > > > You can never take a group of trimshamshas and analyze them as > > bhavas.They are just indriyas,alone.Indriyas cannot act in > isolation,but > > only in relation with manas - which is in turn is part of > > mind(manas,chitta,budhi,ahamkara).You have to study them in relation > to > > other entities. > > Would the above involve Sthoola Sarira D1 Chart? See , this is what I > have > > been trying to convey. > > > > > > Same is the case with navamshas.Prana supplies vital > > energies.If a planet has joined debilitation,rashi through navamsha > > sambandha -it is showing lack of a particular prana support.See the > > bhava for which this planet is a lord and also its karakattwa to study > > results. > > This I agree with. As I have already mentioned here we have no > contention. > > > > Please try to understand the concept of Bhava.It is the unison of Atma > > and Manas.Other constituents,are just facilitators.HOLISTIC approach > > alone can take us towards Sakshathkaara.Hope you will give a patient > > ear. > > Atma and Manas do not have a unison as it is explained above. Atman is > > foreover free from the manas. The Bhava is not the unison between the > two. > > The Kshetra is born out of the Nature. Here you need to understand one > more > > thing: > > > > The mind has many desires. They require a Kshetram. The Lord provides > for > > such a Kshetram that is best for the resultant of these desires. (This > is > > theory of Karma as propounded by the Veda, only to understand the > limitation > > of Karma). Therefore, Kshetram is not the mind. Atman prevades both > the mind > > and the Kshetram and is unattached to both. > > Again, your words carry so many concepts that I will need many days to > > explain everything in order. A systematic study of Vedanta is a must > for > > every budding astrologer and unless that is done, there are bound to > be > > assumptions that are harmful for the growth of understanding of > Astrology as > > a subject. > > > > You will always have my patient ear and again I applaud you on a > healthy > > discussion. > > > > Please think about the same and see how there exists a possibility of > the > > divisional charts being studied. Another suggestion is, in doing so do > not > > worry about your earlier stance, etc. Those who think they know how to > study > > divisional charts, may be doing it all wrong. So do not worry about > them. > > Think in this new light. > > > > Incidently today my elder daughter, who is almost six years old, asked > me > > -"Papa, when you are asleep, do you know that time that you are > asleep?". > > Looks like it is my day of answering the most profound questions. > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/21/06, vijayadas_pradeep vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Bharat ji Namaskar > > > > > > There is no amount of hatred.If rosha is present,it is only for a > higher > > > cause.With time and grace let us be able to learn and control.Thanks > for > > > your kind words and let the almighty make our journey easier. > > > > > > >>Whether the lagna chart is showing the Sthoola Sarira or it is the > > > resultant Jiva? I would love >>to hear your views. It could be both > and > > > each would raise a volley of questions. If it is the >>resultant > jiva, > > > then, why study the divisional chart >>at all. Why, even, go to the > > > Navamsha? >>If it is the Sthoola Sarira, then, why use it too much > as > > > most can be gathered >>through the >>divisional chart? > > > > > > Good questions. > > > I would request you to re-read what you might have already read > > > regarding Bhagawan Krishna & Arjuna.It will clear all our > doubts.Think > > > of soul as jivatma in the current context,sitting inside the > > > chariot.What is the meaning of charioteer.It is intelligence.krishna > had > > > taken over the control of intelligence from Arjuna(false > > > identification).Horses are Indriyas.The reins represent operations > of > > > the mind.If the charioteer does not apply control,the horses may run > > > wherever they want.Also if reins(mind) are left alone after an > initial > > > operation,the horses will keep on running as per the initial > > > instruction.Intelligence corresponds with indriyas through > > > manas.Intelligence can sometimes be clouded and can act based on > > > senses.Thus withdrawal of senses,can result in true intelligence,if > it > > > is weak as per jataka. > > > > > > Thus chariot is sthoola shareera.but Chariot has no life or movement > if > > > it is devoid of the above said entities -collectively called as > Sookshma > > > shareera. > > > > > > Atma has no desire.It is upto 'Us' to go back to our real Us- > > > ''Atma''.But Atma and Manas do have Paraspara ashrayatwa.Becasue > atma > > > joins or follows manas, wherever he is taking,as an observer.(Think > of > > > the soul in the chariot moving along with the movement of chariot > which > > > is according to the direction from manas on to the > horses(indriyas)).A > > > musician can sing with sublime bhava upon, forgetting of mind.Manas > > > dissolving in Atma is complete Bhava. In astrology strength of Sun > gives > > > Atma bala and moon,manobala.Due to Paraspara aashrayatwa,strength of > one > > > entity will result in the strength of the other. > > > > > > Thus coming back to your question -There are no multiple charts.As > the > > > brain cannot hold all the relationships a planet is having with 12 > > > Rashis,we seperate each kind of relationship(sthoola sookshma > sambandha) > > > as a seperate entity(chart).Rashi the structure(chariot) is > > > Sthoolashareera and one rashi is same as one bhava, though with a > small > > > conceptual difference.Rashi needs prana(got through planets,which in > > > turn is from soorya) and other sookshama shareera entities for > > > functioning.Think of Rashi as the chariot along with > > > Krishna,Arjuna,Horses,reins etc,while thinking of Bhavas. > > > > > > One planet has many roles(It is like a variable).When we see it from > a > > > 30 degree span it relates to Kshethra.When we see it from a 3.2 > degree > > > span,it is relating to navamshas or pranas.Think like this - When we > see > > > from a sthoola position Krishna is just a charioteer.But when we see > > > from a sookshma perspective,Krishna is intelligence.But it is the > same > > > Krishna sitting in the same Chariot.So are planets.Instead of seeing > > > Krishna as an ''Intelligent Charioteer'' in the same Chariot ,we are > > > trying to bring in another chariot(another chart). In reality there > are > > > only 12 Bhavas (aadheya tattwam) and 12 Rashis(Aadhara tattwa) and 9 > > > planetary entities. > > > > > > You can never take a group of trimshamshas and analyze them as > > > bhavas.They are just indriyas,alone.Indriyas cannot act in > isolation,but > > > only in relation with manas - which is in turn is part of > > > mind(manas,chitta,budhi,ahamkara).You have to study them in relation > to > > > other entities.Same is the case with navamshas.Prana supplies vital > > > energies.If a planet has joined debilitation,rashi through navamsha > > > sambandha -it is showing lack of a particular prana support.See the > > > bhava for which this planet is a lord and also its karakattwa to > study > > > results. > > > > > > Please try to understand the concept of Bhava.It is the unison of > Atma > > > and Manas.Other constituents,are just facilitators.HOLISTIC approach > > > alone can take us towards Sakshathkaara.Hope you will give a patient > > > ear.You can ofcourse still disagree,provided you have supporting > logic. > > > > > > Regds > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > hinduastrology@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Pradeep > > > > > > > > First of all I must say what I have not said so far - You can make > > > people > > > > think and also make them study the classics before they reply to > you. > > > I > > > > admire your questions and even if you are not open to existence of > > > certain > > > > ideas (due to lack of reference in classics or logic or reasoning > > > regarding > > > > the idea or else), your approach is worthy of praise. > > > > > > > > Before we begin this journey, a small prayer: > > > > > > > > OM SAHANA VAVATU SAHANA BHUNATTU, SAHA VIRYAM KARAWAVAHAI > > > > TEJASVINAVADITAMASTU MA VIDVISHAVAHAI > > > > OM SHANTI ! SHANTI ! SHANTI ! > > > > > > > > * Together may be be protected > > > > Together may we be nourished > > > > Together may we work with great energy > > > > May our journey together be brilliant and effective > > > > May there be no hatred between us > > > > > > > > * > > > > Now, back to our discussion. Let us not discuss charts here and > > > understand > > > > the concepts: > > > > > > > > Though, 5 are the vital functions of Prana,the secondary ones too > are > > > > part of sookshma shareera. > > > > I agreed with you even in my previous email. So no contention over > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > In Jyotisha,we are studying the confluence of numerous > entities,for eg > > > > sookshma shareera,comprising of navapranas,dasha indriyas,manas > and > > > > budhi along with sthoola shareera.Pranas alone or indriyas alone > > > cannot > > > > make a meaning.All the entities have to act in coordination.The > order > > > or > > > > samyoga krama from atma onwards is as follows.Atma joins > Manas,Manas > > > to > > > > Indriyas,Indriyas to Vishayas(loosely translation > ''subjects''),then > > > > vishaya sukha etc. > > > > > > > > There are so many concepts in this one paragraph that I will need > > > couple of > > > > days to explain. Let me make some humble beginnings: > > > > > > > > 1. Action is not only that of the Sthoola Sarira. Each thought is > > > likened to > > > > an Action. To understand this, think of a person who becomes > fearful > > > of an > > > > external situation. The fear is in the mind and it causes the > > > discrimination > > > > to vanish (vijnanamaya kosha) and it has effects on the (pranamaya > > > kosha) > > > > and through it on the (annamaya kosha). But if you think, fear is > only > > > in > > > > the Mind. It is the action of the mind. Confluence of numerous > > > entities is > > > > fine, but, Veda is clear about cause and effect and in that we can > see > > > what > > > > is going on in the manomaya kosha, that may or may not fructify > into > > > actual > > > > physical action. If there was a way, we could understand that, > would > > > it not > > > > be extremely helpful for any native? > > > > > > > > 2. Pranas and Jnana Indriyas have a great meaning alone. Blockages > to > > > prana > > > > will give rise to disease in the Sthoola Sarira. I am taking a > > > hypothetical > > > > example - let's suppose one varga defines the functioning of apana > and > > > that > > > > is showing defects, would it not mean directly that Sthoola Sarira > > > will such > > > > a disease? I think, through the varga we are going into the roots > of > > > things. > > > > Remember what the Upanishad say, Prana prevade the sthoola sarira. > > > This > > > > means they are independent of the Sthoola Sarira and secondly, > they > > > are not > > > > necessarily contained within the Sthoola Sarira. Now if some is > deaf > > > and > > > > dumb or blind, the influence of those indriyas in not in the > manomaya > > > kosha. > > > > How can you say with sureity that Prana and indriyas alone do not > have > > > any > > > > meaning? That there are inter dependencies is fine, but causes lie > > > deep > > > > within through the kosas. > > > > > > > > 3. All entities may not act in coordination. This is the imbalance > > > through > > > > the manomaya kosha or pranamaya kosha. > > > > > > > > 4. Atma never joins the Manas. Atma is forever free. Atman is > Brahman > > > > (Mahavakya). Then, why do we call Atman and Brahman while > referring it > > > to > > > > the same thing. It is because of our own limited thinking. Atman > is > > > referred > > > > to the Truth while talking of the Self. While Brahman is spoken of > as > > > the > > > > Truth while talking of the entirety. This does not make them > different > > > > entities. > > > > Atma is Omnipresent and Omniscient, and therefore, it enlivens as > > > cognition > > > > in the mind. Mind is the collection of thoughts. It is born out of > the > > > > thought that I am not the whole. This "I" thought is the ego. > > > Therefore, ego > > > > takes a collection of thoughts and calls it one's mind. How is ego > > > evident - > > > > throught the light of Atma, how is mind evident - through the > light of > > > Atma. > > > > > > > > > > > > Remember the verse of the Upanishad and of Aparokshanubhuti - Asti > > > bhati > > > > priyam rupam, naam ........ Aadhatriyam brahma rupam jagat rupam > tato > > > dvayam > > > > (please do not mind my english transliteration). The existence, > > > knowledge > > > > and bliss of anything is of the nature of Brahman, whereas, nama > and > > > rupa is > > > > the nature of the jagat (world). So that mind exists, and thought > > > exists - > > > > the existence is the quality of Atman but that we define a thought > and > > > give > > > > a name to it, is born out of maya. > > > > > > > > Therefore, for Atma there is no mind. For the mind, it has to > > > disengage from > > > > the desiring activities to the entity that enlivens it, to have > some > > > idea of > > > > Atma. (This is a very basic idea here just to intellectually have > an > > > idea of > > > > Atman) > > > > > > > > Atma just goes where the manas is taking him. > > > > Atman prevades vijnanamaya kosha and all objects and beings. Mind > > > cannot > > > > take it anywhere. Where mind goes, Atman is there already (many > > > references > > > > in Upanishad). > > > > > > > > 5. Mind is the controller of Indriyas in light of the Atman. > Without > > > its > > > > light, indriyas would go out of control. For a moment, let us > bring > > > Dharma > > > > instead of Atman. Dharma is vijnanamaya kosha. If Dharma isn't > guiding > > > the > > > > mind, then mind cannot reign in the senses and that will result in > > > > passionate actions. If one of the vargas is showing vijnana maya > kosha > > > and > > > > another the manomaya kosha, their interaction will show whether or > not > > > the > > > > native will follow Dharma while pursuing Artha and Kama. Is it > not? > > > > > > > > Now, why are we making such an assumption? Is it a new theory? > > > > Jyotish as a shastra is subservient to Vedas. If Vedas have given > the > > > > panchkoshas, there has to be its relevance in the charts. You also > > > agree to > > > > the same and only object to seeing the koshas separately (which is > > > akin to > > > > seeing the divisional charts separately). > > > > > > > > The underlying discussion should be held: > > > > Whether the lagna chart is showing the Sthoola Sarira or it is the > > > resultant > > > > Jiva? I would love to hear your views. It could be both and each > would > > > raise > > > > a volley of questions. If it is the resultant jiva, then, why > study > > > the > > > > divisional chart at all. Why, even, go to the Navamsha? If it is > the > > > Sthoola > > > > Sarira, then, why use it too much as most can be gathered through > the > > > > divisional chart? > > > > > > > > Mind as you have said has many functions - Budhi,Ahamkara,Chitta > and > > > > Manas.Manas is very important as it has a big role in directing > our > > > > indriyas.But as chitta,is past impressions stored,it can act with > > > > guidance from Budhi (discriminator),to give proper signals to the > > > > manas.For the same reason it is said,Guru aspecting 5th lord is > Budhi > > > > Madhurya(Dr.B.V.Raman 300 imp cominations).5th lords disposition > from > > > > Brihaspati is also important - It shows whether the instructions > from > > > > Brihaspati (Jnana Sukha karaka)can be received or not.Whenever we > are > > > > analyzing or trying to perceive,budhi interacts with chitta, to > study > > > > based on past impressions.These are passed on to manas.Manas > process > > > > these along with impressions(ongoing) gathered through > > > > indriyas.Brihaspati is Jnana as well as Sukha Karaka.Budha is > Jnana > > > > Swarupa and karaka for ''Vak''.As we know control of indriyas,or > > > > withdrawal is the only way, for taming the mind.But Mind is such a > > > > thing, that is so difficult to control.Here Budhi & Chitta can be > > > handy, > > > > as mentioned above.Thus we may have to gain Vairagya through > > > > practise,obeying to budhi. > > > > > > > > This is huge and I am already getting fatiqued. I wish you were > here > > > with me > > > > discussing this, atleast I wouldn't have to type all. Nonetheless, > let > > > me > > > > get started again: > > > > > > > > Budhi: discriminating, reasoning, judging faculty. Budhi judges > based > > > on its > > > > understanding. The principles of Dharma should guide Buddhi. To > > > discriminate > > > > and follow, it needs the light of Truth or the reasoning why to > follow > > > > Dharma. The light is provided by Sun, that is why Mercury "tries" > to > > > be > > > > close to Sun. This is the BudhaAditya Yoga. Jupiter is the store > house > > > of > > > > intelligence and provides deep thinking on each stimuli. It, > > > therefore, > > > > represents Dharma. > > > > > > > > The Manas may or may not refer a matter to Budhi (most reactive > stance > > > are > > > > manas acting alone). Budhi comes into play only if Manas lets it. > Only > > > if > > > > Budhi is referred too, Dharma can come into play. Under Gajakesari > > > Yoga, the > > > > instincts of Dharma become strong and therefore, without referring > to > > > Budhi, > > > > a person is able to do Dharmic actions. As Jupiter signifies > Dharma, > > > and > > > > Dharma is the true way to lasting sukha, therefore it is the Sukha > > > Karaka. > > > > > > > > To explain the above, we do not need the houses. The houses will > > > provide the > > > > sthoola Sarira the Kshetra of expression. Karma has to come from > the > > > graha. > > > > By not providing the adequate Kshetra, the graha is unfilled or > > > > disappointed. This is what happens if you see Jupiter is Kshetra > of > > > learning > > > > and intelligence - it is brilliant. In Kshetra of war and Adharma, > > > it's > > > > expression is unfulfilled. > > > > > > > > Now the question comes - What do the signs and houses of Vargas > > > provide - > > > > Internal Kshetram? Subtle Kshetram? Is there no possibility of the > > > same? > > > > Now, if you understand that Prana and Manas is prevading beyond > the > > > boundary > > > > of the sthoola sarira, this could mean a lot. Frankly, I have no > clue > > > now on > > > > what the results would be. I require help over here and we need to > > > research > > > > (that is why I was certain of research). Another thing, re-search > > > means > > > > searching for something that already is, and, not for something > > > altogether > > > > new. > > > > > > > > The sookshma shareera spans across numerous koshas.Thus it may not > be > > > > easy to group or confine them within certain koshas as you have > > > > mentioned.Eg.If Vargamshas from Kshethra to Dwadashamsha are > > > > Annamaya,then how do you include navamshas which are > > > > navapranas.Pranamaya Kosha is supposed to have pranas.But as i am > not > > > > sure,i am refraining from making comments. > > > > I may be wrong. I agree and only need support that we all research > > > together > > > > instead of totally dismissing the idea. > > > > > > > > I may be wrong or right.But i am depending on classics to arrive > at > > > > conclusions.I do not have courage to frame theories.If you are > > > > certain,you may kindly explain how nava pranas taken together can > > > result > > > > in a Bhava.My understanding is to think of, how pranas are > infleuncing > > > a > > > > bhava.Classical examples too demonstrate the same. > > > > You are free to hold your opinion and can correct me,with classics > or > > > > logic. > > > > Till I discover BrahmaVidya, I will be wrong. My certainity lies > in > > > that the > > > > vargas can be used separately. How to use them, I am uncertain. My > > > logic and > > > > reasoning points to their usage. Furthermore, how the vargas are > being > > > > analyzed in many books, I am uncertain if they are true too. > > > > > > > > I thank you for this free exchange and hope I do not get tired > easily. > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/21/06, vijayadas_pradeep vijayadas_pradeep@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bharat ji Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the detailed explanations and Koshas. > > > > > Though, 5 are the vital functions of Prana,the secondary ones > too > > > are > > > > > part of sookshma shareera.Dhananjaya is excepeted for the reason > > > > > mentioned in the previous mail,and hence the other nine are > related > > > to > > > > > navamshas. > > > > > In Jyotisha,we are studying the confluence of numerous > entities,for > > > eg > > > > > sookshma shareera,comprising of navapranas,dasha indriyas,manas > and > > > > > budhi along with sthoola shareera.Pranas alone or indriyas alone > > > cannot > > > > > make a meaning.All the entities have to act in coordination.The > > > order or > > > > > samyoga krama from atma onwards is as follows.Atma joins > Manas,Manas > > > to > > > > > Indriyas,Indriyas to Vishayas(loosely translation > ''subjects''),then > > > > > vishaya sukha etc. > > > > > > > > > > Atma just goes where the manas is taking him.Manas directs > indriyas > > > and > > > > > indriyas associates with various vishayas and pleasures. > > > > > Mind as you have said has many functions - Budhi,Ahamkara,Chitta > and > > > > > Manas.Manas is very important as it has a big role in directing > our > > > > > indriyas.But as chitta,is past impressions stored,it can act > with > > > > > guidance from Budhi (discriminator),to give proper signals to > the > > > > > manas.For the same reason it is said,Guru aspecting 5th lord is > > > Budhi > > > > > Madhurya(Dr.B.V.Raman 300 imp cominations).5th lords disposition > > > from > > > > > Brihaspati is also important - It shows whether the instructions > > > from > > > > > Brihaspati (Jnana Sukha karaka)can be received or not.Whenever > we > > > are > > > > > analyzing or trying to perceive,budhi interacts with chitta, to > > > study > > > > > based on past impressions.These are passed on to manas.Manas > process > > > > > these along with impressions(ongoing) gathered through > > > > > indriyas.Brihaspati is Jnana as well as Sukha Karaka.Budha is > Jnana > > > > > Swarupa and karaka for ''Vak''.As we know control of indriyas,or > > > > > withdrawal is the only way, for taming the mind.But Mind is such > a > > > > > thing, that is so difficult to control.Here Budhi & Chitta can > be > > > handy, > > > > > as mentioned above.Thus we may have to gain Vairagya through > > > > > practise,obeying to budhi. > > > > > > > > > > The sookshma shareera spans across numerous koshas.Thus it may > not > > > be > > > > > easy to group or confine them within certain koshas as you have > > > > > mentioned.Eg.If Vargamshas from Kshethra to Dwadashamsha are > > > > > Annamaya,then how do you include navamshas which are > > > > > navapranas.Pranamaya Kosha is supposed to have pranas.But as i > am > > > not > > > > > sure,i am refraining from making comments. > > > > > > > > > > But if you can close your eyes and think for few seconds,you can > > > > > perceive what a Bhava is(Also think of Bhava in Nritta and > Sangeetha > > > - > > > > > The art forms are expressions arising out of internal and > external > > > > > harmony.When one forgets about mind,True Bhava manifests with > Laya > > > or > > > > > flow).It is the simultaneous functioniong of numerous > entities.Think > > > of > > > > > the functioning of human system.A body(sthoola) simultaneously > > > working > > > > > with prana,indriya,manas,budhi,ahamkara etc can only have a > > > Bhava.Prana > > > > > alone does not have any bhava - so is manas - it has to get > > > impressions > > > > > from indriyas or past ones from chitta.How we are able to derive > > > each > > > > > and every amsha from individual rashis, holds the conclusion.A > rashi > > > is > > > > > a sumtotal of all these.Planets are giving life,which they in > turn > > > have > > > > > gained from Soorya.Purusha manifests as Prana. > > > > > > > > > > I may be wrong or right.But i am depending on classics to arrive > at > > > > > conclusions.I do not have courage to frame theories.If you are > > > > > certain,you may kindly explain how nava pranas taken together > can > > > result > > > > > in a Bhava.My understanding is to think of, how pranas are > > > infleuncing a > > > > > bhava.Classical examples too demonstrate the same. > > > > > You are free to hold your opinion and can correct me,with > classics > > > or > > > > > logic. > > > > > > > > > > Regds > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > > > hinduastrology@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > It is no use giving simple explanations on the forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > Taittirya Upanishad Chapter XIII: Than that, verily -than this > one > > > > > formed of > > > > > > Prana -there is another self within formed of Manas. By Him > this > > > one > > > > > is > > > > > > filled. > > > > > > > > > > > > When we talk of Jnana indriyas, we talk of two things- organs > of > > > > > perception > > > > > > and their stimuli being registered in the mind. As the > indriyas by > > > > > itself > > > > > > cannot bring Jnana or cognition, it is the Manomaya Kosha or > the > > > Mind > > > > > that > > > > > > brings it. The word Jnana indriyas therefore refers to > perception. > > > To > > > > > say > > > > > > perception rests with the Mind is okay to say that senses rest > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > mind, will be incorrect. So Jnana indriyas is another function > of > > > the > > > > > mind > > > > > > and a different one from its other functions. It should not be > > > taken > > > > > as a > > > > > > separate organ or a place or else. > > > > > > > > > > > > The mano maya kosha is the first kosha in the order from gross > to > > > > > subtle to > > > > > > be show cognition as it has more of Sattva Guna as compared to > > > > > Pranamaya > > > > > > kosha which is mostly Rajas and Anamayakosha that is mostly > Tamas. > > > So > > > > > here > > > > > > in lies the instrument of karana sakti, and the bhoga sakti. > As of > > > > > product > > > > > > of Jnana sakti, it has various vrittis. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Desire, representation, doubt, faith, want of faith, want of > > > > > firmness, > > > > > > shame, reflection, fear - all in mind" - Brihadaryanka > Upanishad > > > 1-5-3 > > > > > > > > > > > > So among many functions Jnana Indriyas is the cognition of > > > perception. > > > > > But > > > > > > senses shall remain in the sthoola sarira. Pranas that > prevades > > > the > > > > > anamaya > > > > > > kosha or the sthoola sarira, shall be the sthana of Karma > > > Indriyas, > > > > > meaning > > > > > > the enabling the function of action. It is the carrier of > Manomaya > > > > > kosha's > > > > > > directives to the limbs and organs of actions of the body. > Again > > > it is > > > > > one > > > > > > of the functions and not a separate place, or identity. > > > > > > > > > > > > As Mano-maya kosha prevades the pranamaya kosha, the function > of > > > > > perception > > > > > > shall prevade the pranamaya kosha but the senses itself shall > not > > > > > prevade > > > > > > the pranamaya kosha. As Pranamaya does not have distinct > parts, > > > just > > > > > as in > > > > > > manomaya kosha, it is a unity present in every part of the > body > > > > > performing > > > > > > its functions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, I see you mention 10 pranas. It is correct, though > generally > > > 5 > > > > > > prominent ones are used and in the Upanishad these five are > > > mentioned. > > > > > > (Maitreya Up. 2-6) > > > > > > > > > > > > Trimshamshas are pancha jnanendriyas.Sun and Moon do not have > any > > > > > > ownership here.When we think it is clear. > > > > > > It is the indriyas through which we are drawing impressions > from > > > the > > > > > > external and hence the cause for evils. > > > > > > > > > > > > If we see the same, then, what I had suggested to you and the > > > forum, > > > > > earlier > > > > > > could be true. D1-D12 - Anamaya kosha D13-D24 Pranamaya Kosha, > > > D25-D36 > > > > > > (where in D30 lies) Manomaya Kosha. (This was followed by chat > > > with > > > > > Sri Hari > > > > > > and Sri Parthasarathy too) > > > > > > > > > > > > Could then, divisional charts (D25-D36) relate to the > different > > > > > functions of > > > > > > the mind? I am certain of two things: > > > > > > 1. They can be used separately in view of the above- how we > need > > > to > > > > > find > > > > > > out. Possible clues could be checking the cognition of > different > > > > > stimuli, > > > > > > what desires move about, in what the person's faith lies, etc. > > > After > > > > > all, > > > > > > the causes of bodily actions lie in these charts, there is > much > > > more > > > > > to > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. More research is needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/19/06, vijayadas_pradeep vijayadas_pradeep@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Anilkumar ji,Arjun ji ,Bharatji Namaskaar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EkaVimshopi(21) constituents of Sookshma shareera are > composed > > > of > > > > > > > dwadasha(12) Budhindriyaadis and navapranas. > > > > > > > Here 12,Budhi-indriyaadis are Budhi,Manas and 10 Indriyas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arjun ji as you may be aware,Organs are different from > indriyas. > > > > > > > 1)Jnanendriyas -smell,taste,see,touch,hear. > > > > > > > 2)Karmendriyas -excrete,reproduce,move,grasp,speak. > > > > > > > Thus nose,ear,legs etc are the organs corresponding to the > above > > > 10 > > > > > > > indriyas. > > > > > > > Nava Pranas are - > > > > > > > Pranan,Apanan,Samanan,Vyanan,Udanan,Nagam,Koormam,Krikalam & > > > > > > > Devadattam.Tenth Prana Dhananjaya,is for dead bodies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rashi is sthoola shareera ,comprising of Organs.But organs > are > > > just > > > > > > > structures if there is no life.Thus Purusha manifests as > Prana. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Trimshamshas are pancha jnanendriyas.Sun and Moon do not > have > > > any > > > > > > > ownership here.When we think it is clear. > > > > > > > It is the indriyas through which we are drawing impressions > from > > > the > > > > > > > external and hence the cause for evils. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can indriyas alone be considered as a Bhava?No.Bhava is the > > > > > confluence > > > > > > > of many.We should think how it is possible to study all > aspects > > > > > > > pertaining to a jataka from ''Rashi Chakra''. > > > > > > > This is possible as, one rashi becomes a bhava,when it has a > > > lord > > > > > w.r > > > > > > > to lagna.For properly understanding the functioning of each > > > Bhava,we > > > > > > > have to see the subtle infleunces on bhava nathas.Each > subtle > > > > > > > infleunce will have a role,for eg,navamsha infleunce is > > > > > corresponding > > > > > > > to kalathra,bhagya etc. > > > > > > > Thus sookshma shareera acts in sync with corresponding > sthoola > > > > > > > shareera organs.Trying to study them in isolation or > considering > > > > > Bhava > > > > > > > there is beyond my understanding.Others who have understood > may > > > > > > > explain for better comprehension.We should think why we do > not > > > have > > > > > > > shlokas to support bhavas in vargamsha groupings.Why is > > > Vargottama > > > > > > > important?Any planet is a Bhavanatha or karaka.When he is > having > > > > > > > similar subtle and gross infleuences,shubha results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When time permits ,i can share some more from the works of > > > > > > > Mahamunis,if it is helpful for you.Mind - and its > > > > > > > constituents,improtance of chitta(past impressions > and),Budhi, > > > > > > > Ahamkara etc.Chitta is also 5th house and PoorvaPunya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > > panditarjun2004@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > namaste bharat ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i am looking at how to read from the signs, houses or > planets > > > on > > > > > all > > > > > > > > kinds of indriyas (not body organs). we all learnt how > bodily > > > > > parts > > > > > > > > are read from various houses starting from head from langa > to > > > feet > > > > > > > > in the 12th. please share on reading of these indriyas > > > (sensory > > > > > and > > > > > > > > non-sensory) from a sign/house/planet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the two nadis ida and pingala are related to sun and moon. > > > > > > > > similarly please share how the five vayus are read in > > > astrology. > > > > > i > > > > > > > > understand that the seven chakras (mooladhara, > svadhisthana, > > > > > > > > manipuraka, anahata, vishuddha, ajna and sahasrara) can > also > > > be > > > > > read > > > > > > > > from a chart and have their correlation with signs, houses > and > > > > > > > > planets. would be grateful if any member share information > on > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and regards > > > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu > > > Astrology" > > > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Jnanaindriyas are the five senses of perception. The > > > five > > > > > > > > karma indriyas > > > > > > > > > are organs of speech, hands, legs, organ of procreation, > and > > > > > organ > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > excretion. The pranamaya kosha (prana, apana, udana, > vyana > > > and > > > > > > > > samana) > > > > > > > > > provide the forces that make the indriyas function. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/18/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear anil ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep:Thus Rashis are 12 and they constitue 12 > organs > > > as > > > > > > > > well as > > > > > > > > > > > 12 bhavas.Sookshma shareera consists of navapranas > and > > > 12 > > > > > > > > indiryas. > > > > > > > > > > > Anil:There are 5 Jnyanendriyas and 5 Karmendriyas so > 10 > > > > > only. > > > > > > > > > > > Please give supporting verses. Organs and Indriyas > are > > > > > > > > different. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without knowing whether the indriyas are twelve or > ten, i > > > > > would > > > > > > > > request > > > > > > > > > > you to give their correlation to signs or houses in > > > seriatim > > > > > for > > > > > > > > me to > > > > > > > > > > learn more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes you are right in saying that organs are different > from > > > > > > > > indriyas and > > > > > > > > > > it is organs which we consider for medical astrology. > if > > > you > > > > > > > > share > > > > > > > > > > your knowledge on indriyas it would help me understand > > > better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > > > > > > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > > > > > > > astrology</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > > > > > > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > > > > > > > horoscope</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > > > > > > > > > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > > > > > > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > > > > > > software</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > > > > > > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > > > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > Terms > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: > > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > > > > > vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > > > chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c\ </gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > > > > > > > > > hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4\ > \ > > > \ > > > > > &s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo\ </gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > \</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > > > > > > > > > gy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software\ > \ > > > \ > > > > > &c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast\ </gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > > > > > > > > > rology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+soft\ > \ > > > \ > > > > > ware&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro\ </gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > > > > > > > > > logy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+softwa\ > \ > > > \ > > > > > re&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group > > > > > "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology-@@y\ > > > > > ahoogroups.com?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Terms > of > > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > > > vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology > > > > chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c\ </gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > > > > hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4\ > \ > > > &s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > > > > > > > > > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo\ </gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > \</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > > > > gy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software\ > \ > > > &c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > > > > > > > > > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast\ </gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > > > > rology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+soft\ > \ > > > ware&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > > > > > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro\ </gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > > > > logy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+softwa\ > \ > > > re&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group > > > "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > vedic astrology-@y\ > > > ahoogroups.com?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > - Terms of > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > vedic astrology- > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology > chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c\ </gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4\ > &s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > > > > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo\ </gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > gy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software\ > &c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > > > > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast\ </gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > rology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+soft\ > ware&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro\ </gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > logy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+softwa\ > re&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group > "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > on the web. > > > > > > - > > > > vedic astrology-@y\ > ahoogroups.com?subject=Un> > > > > > > - Terms of > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+ch art&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s =91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolog y+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c =4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astr ology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+softwa re&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrol ogy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software &c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > ------------------------------ > > > > - Visit your group "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > on the web. > > - > vedic astrology<vedic astrology-@y ahoogroups.com?subject=Un> > > - Terms of > Service <>. > > > ------------------------------ > ______________________ ______________________ Message: 14 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 12:55:51 -0800 (PST) Devika Dhillon <devikadhillon Re: Sun in Aris in Natal chart - Let us predict - An excersise Dear Sreenadh, Thanks for taking this exercise a step further. Although I am not a learned, I will attempt to start on this. Both, Aries and Sun are fiery. This can attribute to highly energetic, athletic and aggressive tendency. Exalted, Sun in Aries becomes more intensive. The characteristics of these people tend to be: Tall and Attractive, determined, brave, innovative, proud, quick acting, impatient, power hungry, leaders, independent, self-confident, stubborn, monetary problems, happiness from male children and they tend to worry about mental sickness, may have weak eye sight. They also think that the world revolves around them (false ego). The occupation of these people could be related to military or fire fighters( Aries/Mars), engineering or metal related (Aries + Sun). Devika. Sreenadh <sreelid wrote: Dear All, You can consider this as another step of the "Let us predict (with Lagna alone)" exercise we have done earlier. Think that the only thing we know about a horoscope is that, Sun is placed in Aries. What are the things we can predict about the native based on this info alone? Let us play. Let us try to make it a worthy exercise. If anyone is interested in the same, I would joyously participate in this exercise, as a team mate. I invite all the knowledgeable dear friends like Pradeep, RK Dash, Guruji Dakshnamoorthi, Pandit ji, Praveen, Anil ji, Nemani ji, and all the other true researchers to participate in this exercise. Let us bring out the possibilities. If you felt that the "Let us predict with Lagna alone" was a worthy exercise, then let us joyously participate in this exercise as well, and let us enjoy the beauty of astrology. Points to remember: ------------------- 1) The only thing we know about the horoscope is that Su is placed in Aries. 2) Only the Sign and Planet would be considered in prediction. 3) Karakathwas of the Sign, and Karakathwas of Planet can be extensively used. (i.e. The Meterials-Places-Events-Qualities-Persons- Organs-Diseases-Emotions-Gods etc that Aries and Sun signify becomes important and can be extensively used in prediction). 4)The concepts such as Kalapurusha, Yugadi, Charadi, Bhoothadi etc classification of signs can be used. 5) Remember that we are trying to explore the Natal chart and NOT the presna or Muhoortha chart. 6) Any info that is outside these pre-set boundaries should not be used. Hope that at least some would find this exercise beneficial. I am eagerly waiting for the response from all directions. Love, Sreenadh Astrology chart Vedic astrology Astrology horoscope Astrology software Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web. vedic astrology Terms of Service. Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. ______________________ ______________________ Message: 15 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:39:34 -0000 "vijayadas_pradeep" <vijayadas_pradeep Re: Krishna the charioteer and Arjuna -Bharat ji -Indriyas/Manas etc. Dear Bharat ji Namaskar Whether you have understood Upanishads or Gita is beyond my perception and my job is not to judge that.What i have said is based on classical shlokas. Mamaivamsho Jeevaloke Jeeva Bhootha Sanathana Mana shashtaneendriyaani Prakrithi sthani Karshathi Bhagavad Gita,Chapter 15,Purushottama Yoga,Shloka 7. My own Sanathana AMSHA manifests as Jeeva(jeevatma) in jeevaloka and attracts the six indriyas including Manas(5 jnanendriyas plus Manas),situated in Prakrithi.Please note the word AMSHA. Yujnannevam Sadathmanam Yogee Niyatha Manasa Shanthim Nirvana Paramam Malsamstham adhi gachathi.(Sixth chapter Dhyanayoga,shloka 15). The yogi who has controlled the mind and the one who has made the mind join with atma, will attain the height of shanthi in me. Now let us take AHAM BRAHMASMI - I AM BRAHMAN OR I AM HIM.They are one and the same,but how? What is the difference between spark(amsha) and Sun(Whole);Drop(amsha) and Ocean(Whole)? The drop is no different from Ocean,but all the drops collectively forms the Ocean.Spark is no different from the Sun but all the sparks together forms the Sun. They are the same but they together constitute HIM.HE is in all,but all together it is HIM.This is the difference between Jivatma and Paramatma.It is difficult to express in words.Collective or Holistic feeling is Supreme consciousness. Joining of Mind and Atma and attainment of Bhava has to be experienced through music.It cannot be expressed in words. Thanks a lot for offering books and help. Chandrashekhar ji has always told,''If you sincerely look for Knowledge you will find it''. Couple of years back,i had requested Ramanarayanan ji for some books ''The books you are looking for are already within you,You have to sharpen .....''.Ramanarayanan ji has guided whenever i was in need.I have expressed my concerns and differences regrading varga bhavas too. When i had told about my lack of knoweldge in Sanskrit - Sri Chandrahari said ''Fix your mind on Shiva and recite OM NAMA SHIVAYA,everything will come automatically,no need to study anything'' Sreenadh ji is well read in classics and has not found a single reference supporting seperate bhavas for amshas.Indriyas and Navapranas do not have any lagna or Bhavas,But they infleuence Lagna and dwadasha bhavas.I do not know why it is so difficult to understand!!! I honestly agree that i have read very few books,no upanishads,no vedas,and very few jyotish books.In that way i may be a pauper as compared to you.But i trust the words of above Gurusthaneeyas.I feel the biggest treasure of knoweldge is within us and not in any books.Ever since i have been meeting AMRITANANDA MAYI AMMA,i feel no insecurity at all.There is no bigger Yogi and Guru than Parama Shiva. Let us travel together and learn from each other.Let the discretion helps us in seperating good and bad.Listen to everyone,and take the good.Neither you are, nor i am, a challenger. Thanks Pradee vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology wrote: > > Namaskaar Sri Pradeep > > AUM! > > All the answers for your queries,are in Bhagawat Gita.When Lord Krishna > HIMSELF has explained them in detail,i do not think any one has to > elaborate further. > > If I may say so, the query was yours. I used the Upanishads to explain the > same. Bhagavad Gita is one of the finest expositions on the Upanishads and > it does not alter the saying of the Upanishad. > > Bhagwan has explained to Arjuna on how to fix ones mind on HIM.What i > have told is nothing more.We have to understand the difference between > jivatma and Paramatma here.We are talking about jivatma,which is a spark > of the very Paramatma. > Is the drop of water in an ocean separate from the ocean? When inside the > Ocean do you see water everywhere or do you see droplets of water > separately? When we talk on infinite lord, do you see any parts in it? When > you see infinite space - can you divide it? The room space, wall space, > garden space, city space is after all space. Jivatma does not refer to a > separate Atma but the notion of it in the mind. Please this is the > difference. > > Finally mind will dissolve and just the Atma > remains which will unite jivatma and Paramtma. > If such was the case, then, every night in deep sleep they would unite as > mind is not there. Read Mandukya Upanishad with Sri Gaupada's Karika. The > notion dissolving is not the mind dissolving. Do trees have to vanish for me > to see Atman? Did Ramakrishna Paramhansa not see people around him? > > Budhi is the mediator here.Please don't get distracted by various > translations of Gita.Just think how we are breaking sheaths one by one and > joining HIM.This is dissolving of mind in Atma - total dissolution is > assimilation. > I am not going by translations of Srimad Bhagavat Gita. I am going by the > teachings of the Upanishad. I have given many references of the same. Kindly > do not reject those teachings are mere interpretations of translators! The > teachings have been given with complete logic and reasoning. > > Breaking sheaths amount to saying that pranas do not function in a Jeevan > Mukta. This statement is totally against the Upanishads. Kindly give > reference either in the Upanishads or the Bhagavad Gita. > > Atma knows everything as it is part of the Pure Bodha or > Consciousness.Bhava is thus the joining of Atma and Manas. > Look at the contradiction - If you say Atma is a part of Consciousness, then > it would be perishable. As it is limited and not infinite. You are going > against the very basis of Mahavakya - Atman is Brahman. > > Pradeep, please do not take in the wrong manner, but it would do you good if > you study the above subjects carefully under guidance of a Guru. I can > suggest you some books to start with, to make things easier. It is these > errors that are making you question again and again. > > If you feel I do not understand (even intellectually) the Upanishads or the > Bhagavad Gita, then, the discussion should stop here. However, if you > understand that I know something, then you can ask n number of questions. I > will only initiate this learning process if you approach as a learner and > not as a challenger. > > A musician can sing based on lower intellectual analysis or higher > influence.When it is lower,he concentrates or just repeats the > techniques as taught.But in the higher state he forgets mind and music > comes from Atma.It will come from within.Bhava can result only with > that. > When one sings because it comes naturally, then it is the highest form. The > desire for appreciation, etc is absent in such a case. In doing so, why do > you personalize Atman as that of a musician just because he has broken > identification from the mind. This example does not in any case prove that > there are separate Atmans floating around. > > Bhava is thus the joining of Atma and Manas.Musician was > just an example.Think of the act smile.We can smile just with lip > movement or lip plus chin,cheeks,facial muscles etc.But the smile is not > having bhava if it not coming from within.Then there is a > confluence. > In the above case, as the limitedness of Manas is disassociated with, > therefore the Bhava comes, not because of the joining of the two! How can an > Omnipresent join or remove from anything? > First verse of Isa Upanishad - All that is there, is verily the Lord! > Therefore, the concept of Jivatman is a notion. Do not build the entire > theory of bhava on a false notion. This is serious confusion and you must > talk to a Siddha Guru regarding the same. > > There is a frequent example in the Upanishads about the rope and the snake. > This example states that if in a dark corner a rope lies and if you see it > as a snake, then, your mind is superimposing the idea of the snake because > the base is rope. This is because the imaginary snake borrows shape of the > real rope. Here snake is Maya and rope is Brahman. The idea is space and > time are endless because Brahman is, so space and time seem that way. This > example does not mean that Brahman is Rope! > > You have taken two examples, that of Chariot and of Jeevatman and converted > them into something like the above. To help you understand, if you give me > the references of the texts, I'll try and explain to the best of my > abilities. > > Bhava is a kshetra of the Sthoola Sarira if you take Rashi chart as the > Sthoola Sarira. If you take it as a sum total of all koshas, then, we have a > different discussion at hand. > > Again, in your analysis you have not touched upon the anandamaya kosha and > its kshetram. > > This is why, we chant Om sahana vavatu before every class. Often, the > discussion can get heated as the subject matter is Self. Noone takes kindly > to breaking of self imposed notions. > > Do let me know if you want to systematically study the texts. I can provide > you with the basic list before going on to the most powerful Texts. > > Harih Aum > Sri Gurubhyo Namah > Hari Aum > > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > Hari Aum Tat Sat > > On 2/22/06, vijayadas_pradeep vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > Dear Bharat ji Namaskar > > > > All the answers for your queries,are in Bhagawat Gita.When Lord Krishna > > HIMSELF has explained them in detail,i do not think any one has to > > elaborate further. > > > > Bhagwan has explained to Arjuna on how to fix ones mind on HIM.What i > > have told is nothing more.We have to understand the difference between > > jivatma and Paramatma here.We are talking about jivatma,which is a spark > > of the very Paramatma.Finally mind will dissolve and just the Atma > > remains which will unite jivatma and Paramtma.Budhi is the mediator > > here.Please don't get distracted by various translations of Gita.Just > > think how we are breaking sheaths one by one and joining HIM.This is > > dissolving of mind in Atma - total dissolution is assimilation. > > > > There is a purpose for the creation of mind.Without it the ''game'' is > > not possible. > > Thus Shiva/Shakthi,Purusha/Prakrithi,Atma/Manas,Surya/Chandra etc have > > Paraspara Ashrayatwa or mutual dependency.It is all the same.When we say > > ''wherever mind is going'' - it is not a physical displacement.It is > > Manovyapara.Atma is the spark of HIM within us.It is just sitting as an > > observer,and goes wherever the mind takes him,and remains > > unaffected.Budhi is the discriminator,who can decide what is wriong and > > what is right.When Budhi is refined,or when the dust and impurities are > > removed,Budhi will act as it is supoosed to.Indriyas and Vishaya Sukhas > > can cloud Budhi.Once these are tamed,Manas Joins Budhi and then finally > > it joins Atma.Total dissolution.Bhagavan has made this crystal clear. > > > > A musician can sing based on lower intellectual analysis or higher > > influence.When it is lower,he concentrates or just repeats the > > techniques as taught.But in the higher state he forgets mind and music > > comes from Atma.It will come from within.Bhava can result only with > > that.Atma knows everything as it is part of the Pure Bodha or > > Consciousness.Bhava is thus the joining of Atma and Manas.Musician was > > just an example.Think of the act smile.We can smile just with lip > > movement or lip plus chin,cheeks,facial muscles etc.But the smile is not > > having bhava if it not coming from within.Then there is a > > confluence.Word or Vak is supreme.Nada is Supreme.Hence musical > > expressions can make us feel Bhava or unison with HIM,atleast for a few > > seconds,when striving for perfection. > > > > Once the concept of Bhava is clear,we can discuss astrological vargas.i > > am pretty sure that you have enough intelligence to understand the > > same.Whole universe is permeated with his spark.The colelctive feeling > > of all these is Supreme Bodha.In Jyotisha one unison of Atma and Manas > > is one Bhava.Indriyas,Budhi,Prana etc are facilitators. > > > > Kind Regds > > Pradeep > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > hinduastrology@ wrote: > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Pradeep > > > > > > Om Astoma Sad Gamaya. > > > Tamasoma Jyothir Gamaya. > > > Mrityorma Amritam Gamaya. > > > Om Shantih! Shantih! Shantih! > > > > > > Here I go again: > > > > > > regarding Bhagawan Krishna & Arjuna.It will clear all our doubts.Think > > > of soul as jivatma in the current context,sitting inside the > > > chariot.What is the meaning of charioteer.It is intelligence.krishna > > had > > > taken over the control of intelligence from Arjuna(false > > > identification).Horses are Indriyas.The reins represent operations of > > > the mind.If the charioteer does not apply control,the horses may run > > > wherever they want.Also if reins(mind) are left alone after an initial > > > operation,the horses will keep on running as per the initial > > > instruction.Intelligence corresponds with indriyas through > > > manas.Intelligence can sometimes be clouded and can act based on > > > senses.Thus withdrawal of senses,can result in true intelligence,if it > > > is weak as per jataka. Thus chariot is sthoola shareera.but Chariot > > has no > > > life or movement if it is devoid of the above said entities > > -collectively > > > called as Sookshma > > > shareera. > > > > > > This is a well known analogy and till now I agree. I believe you are > > taking > > > the lagna chart as the sthoola Sarira (in your comments below) > > > > > > Atma has no desire.It is upto 'Us' to go back to our real Us- > > > ''Atma''.But Atma and Manas do have Paraspara ashrayatwa.Becasue atma > > > joins or follows manas, wherever he is taking,as an observer.(Think of > > > the soul in the chariot moving along with the movement of chariot > > which > > > is according to the direction from manas on to the horses(indriyas)). > > > Now you have extended the example. This is a common mistake for those > > > studying Vedanta. The analogy of the chariot = Sharira, Arjuna being > > the > > > Jivatma and Krishna meaning identification with the Real self is okay. > > It is > > > only to explain the individual and show how the senses can destroy a > > person > > > by misleading him. It also shows with the knowledge of the Self, the > > > indriyas function but in their maryada. > > > > > > Do not go to the level of mind taking Atma for a ride. This will > > overturn > > > almost all of the Upanishadic statments. As Atma is omnipresent, there > > is > > > nowhere where it is not. Therefore, wherever the mind goes, it there > > > already. It may seem to the mind that Atma is travelling with it, but > > then, > > > that is the Maya! > > > > > > A musician can sing with sublime bhava upon, forgetting of mind.Manas > > > dissolving in Atma is complete Bhava. In astrology strength of Sun > > gives > > > Atma bala and moon,manobala.Due to Paraspara aashrayatwa,strength of > > one > > > entity will result in the strength of the other. > > > > > > Sun gives atma bala not Atma. How is the bala different? The light of > > > consciousness when referred to in an individual is called conditioned > > > consciousness. It enlivens the ego thought and the mind. This is the > > Atma > > > bala and not the bala of Atman that we are referring to above. The > > Atman has > > > nothing to take from manobala. It is free already and it is > > omnipotent. > > > Therefore, the Atma bala can only refer to the light or brilliance of > > the > > > consciousness shining through Sun in our charts that enlivens the > > > individual. As Sun is a graha, it binds through conditioning and > > feeling > > > that this consciousness is individual! This is the binding nature of > > the > > > Sun. > > > > > > Manas never dissolves into the Atman. Manas is never there for the > > Atman, > > > therefore there is no dissolving back. This the limitation of any > > language > > > and therefore, such words are used. The thoughts are born out of a > > want for > > > fulfillment of the self, as one cannot accept limitation (this is due > > to the > > > fact that one's nature is Satyam Jnanam Anantam). This desire moves to > > > fulfill itself and be complete. When such a notion is finished and > > Brahma > > > Vidya dawns, there is no more running. Only residual prarabdha > > functions. > > > > > > When a musician sings, he dissociates his ego and finds love and > > devotion. > > > This is possible not only for a musician but for almost everyone on > > this > > > forum. > > > > > > I am sorry I have to discuss the above words over the internet. > > Upanishads > > > should be studied with reverence and not like this. > > > > > > There are no multiple charts.As the > > > brain cannot hold all the relationships a planet is having with 12 > > > Rashis,we seperate each kind of relationship(sthoola sookshma > > sambandha) > > > as a seperate entity(chart). > > > > > > Sthoola Sookshma Sambanda I understand very well and agree. Now when > > we say > > > Sookshma, what do we mean? Sookshma is the one that is free from the > > > sthoola. So pranamaya kosha is independent and free of sthoolamaya > > kosha. If > > > your heart is beating it is because pranas are functioning on their > > own. No > > > sambandha is required. If in the prana chart (suppose we can recognize > > which > > > one it is), if we see problems and malefics, we can find out the root > > of > > > heart problem. No need for the D1 chart! (You'd probably call me mad > > now, > > > but I am just showing you that the possibility exist) > > > > > > Rasi is the Sthoola Sarira and as "Yat Pinde Tat Brahmande" principle > > > applies so Rasi is also the external to Sthoola Sarira. > > > > > > Rashi the structure(chariot) is Sthoolashareera and one rashi is same > > as one > > > bhava, though with a small conceptual difference.Rashi needs prana(got > > > through planets,which in turn is from soorya) and other sookshama > > shareera > > > entities for functioning.Think of Rashi as the chariot along with > > > Krishna,Arjuna,Horses,reins etc,while thinking of Bhavas. > > > > > > I agree that Rashi and Bhava are same. The 2nd statement is a huge > > > assumption. The Sthoola Sarira needs Prana true but can the Sthoola > > Sarira > > > show the functioning of the Prana? The Prana are independent of the > > Sthoola > > > Sarira so Sthoola Sarira shall show the result and Prana is the cause. > > > > > > Rashi can only show the result of the Prana on Sthoola Sarira and not > > the > > > cause. It will not show which Prana isn't functioning and why. And > > what > > > about the interrelationships between the Mind and the Pranas. The > > Sthoola > > > Sarira shall show nothing of it. > > > > > > Another exercise here: > > > If we have Sun as the conditioned consciousness (not the Atman), Moon > > as the > > > mind, Jupiter as the values and memory, Mercury as the Buddhi, can you > > > divide the other planets into their functions of Pranas? > > > > > > One planet has many roles(It is like a variable).When we see it from a > > > 30 degree span it relates to Kshethra.When we see it from a 3.2 degree > > > span,it is relating to navamshas or pranas.Think like this - When we > > see > > > from a sthoola position Krishna is just a charioteer.But when we see > > > from a sookshma perspective,Krishna is intelligence.But it is the same > > > Krishna sitting in the same Chariot.So are planets.Instead of seeing > > > Krishna as an ''Intelligent Charioteer'' in the same Chariot ,we are > > > trying to bring in another chariot(another chart). In reality there > > are > > > only 12 Bhavas (aadheya tattwam) and 12 Rashis(Aadhara tattwa) and 9 > > > planetary entities. > > > > > > If we take 30 degree as Kshetra, then how do 3.2 degree become the > > prana. In > > > one sentence you are proving the sameness of Kshetra (the environment) > > with > > > the Prana (the planet itself). The Planet do not define the Kshetra, > > it is > > > the Bhava that defines the Kshetra. Similarly 3.2 degree is a Kshetra > > for > > > the Prana (if Navamsa shows Prana), following that logic. > > > > > > The Kshetra of the Prana and the Manas is not another chariot. It is > > evident > > > from above. The Kshetra of the Prana and Manas prevades the chariot > > and is > > > much bigger. The Upanishad is very clear about the same. > > > > > > For the Sthoola Sarira, there are only 12 bhavas of 30 degrees. Can > > you say > > > the same for Pranas and Manas? From the view of Manas there is a > > different > > > world, for example, Swapna world has nothing to do with Sthoola > > Sarira, > > > where will it go. Where is its Kshetram? and where will Anandmaya > > Kosha go > > > and its Kshetram of Deep Sleep. > > > > > > > > > You can never take a group of trimshamshas and analyze them as > > > bhavas.They are just indriyas,alone.Indriyas cannot act in > > isolation,but > > > only in relation with manas - which is in turn is part of > > > mind(manas,chitta,budhi,ahamkara).You have to study them in relation > > to > > > other entities. > > > Would the above involve Sthoola Sarira D1 Chart? See , this is what I > > have > > > been trying to convey. > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with navamshas.Prana supplies vital > > > energies.If a planet has joined debilitation,rashi through navamsha > > > sambandha -it is showing lack of a particular prana support.See the > > > bhava for which this planet is a lord and also its karakattwa to study > > > results. > > > This I agree with. As I have already mentioned here we have no > > contention. > > > > > > Please try to understand the concept of Bhava.It is the unison of Atma > > > and Manas.Other constituents,are just facilitators.HOLISTIC approach > > > alone can take us towards Sakshathkaara.Hope you will give a patient > > > ear. > > > Atma and Manas do not have a unison as it is explained above. Atman is > > > foreover free from the manas. The Bhava is not the unison between the > > two. > > > The Kshetra is born out of the Nature. Here you need to understand one > > more > > > thing: > > > > > > The mind has many desires. They require a Kshetram. The Lord provides > > for > > > such a Kshetram that is best for the resultant of these desires. (This > > is > > > theory of Karma as propounded by the Veda, only to understand the > > limitation > > > of Karma). Therefore, Kshetram is not the mind. Atman prevades both > > the mind > > > and the Kshetram and is unattached to both. > > > Again, your words carry so many concepts that I will need many days to > > > explain everything in order. A systematic study of Vedanta is a must > > for > > > every budding astrologer and unless that is done, there are bound to > > be > > > assumptions that are harmful for the growth of understanding of > > Astrology as > > > a subject. > > > > > > You will always have my patient ear and again I applaud you on a > > healthy > > > discussion. > > > > > > Please think about the same and see how there exists a possibility of > > the > > > divisional charts being studied. Another suggestion is, in doing so do > > not > > > worry about your earlier stance, etc. Those who think they know how to > > study > > > divisional charts, may be doing it all wrong. So do not worry about > > them. > > > Think in this new light. > > > > > > Incidently today my elder daughter, who is almost six years old, asked > > me > > > -"Papa, when you are asleep, do you know that time that you are > > asleep?". > > > Looks like it is my day of answering the most profound questions. > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/21/06, vijayadas_pradeep vijayadas_pradeep@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bharat ji Namaskar > > > > > > > > There is no amount of hatred.If rosha is present,it is only for a > > higher > > > > cause.With time and grace let us be able to learn and control.Thanks > > for > > > > your kind words and let the almighty make our journey easier. > > > > > > > > >>Whether the lagna chart is showing the Sthoola Sarira or it is the > > > > resultant Jiva? I would love >>to hear your views. It could be both > > and > > > > each would raise a volley of questions. If it is the >>resultant > > jiva, > > > > then, why study the divisional chart >>at all. Why, even, go to the > > > > Navamsha? >>If it is the Sthoola Sarira, then, why use it too much > > as > > > > most can be gathered >>through the >>divisional chart? > > > > > > > > Good questions. > > > > I would request you to re-read what you might have already read > > > > regarding Bhagawan Krishna & Arjuna.It will clear all our > > doubts.Think > > > > of soul as jivatma in the current context,sitting inside the > > > > chariot.What is the meaning of charioteer.It is intelligence.krishna > > had > > > > taken over the control of intelligence from Arjuna(false > > > > identification).Horses are Indriyas.The reins represent operations > > of > > > > the mind.If the charioteer does not apply control,the horses may run > > > > wherever they want.Also if reins(mind) are left alone after an > > initial > > > > operation,the horses will keep on running as per the initial > > > > instruction.Intelligence corresponds with indriyas through > > > > manas.Intelligence can sometimes be clouded and can act based on > > > > senses.Thus withdrawal of senses,can result in true intelligence,if > > it > > > > is weak as per jataka. > > > > > > > > Thus chariot is sthoola shareera.but Chariot has no life or movement > > if > > > > it is devoid of the above said entities -collectively called as > > Sookshma > > > > shareera. > > > > > > > > Atma has no desire.It is upto 'Us' to go back to our real Us- > > > > ''Atma''.But Atma and Manas do have Paraspara ashrayatwa.Becasue > > atma > > > > joins or follows manas, wherever he is taking,as an observer.(Think > > of > > > > the soul in the chariot moving along with the movement of chariot > > which > > > > is according to the direction from manas on to the > > horses(indriyas)).A > > > > musician can sing with sublime bhava upon, forgetting of mind.Manas > > > > dissolving in Atma is complete Bhava. In astrology strength of Sun > > gives > > > > Atma bala and moon,manobala.Due to Paraspara aashrayatwa,strength of > > one > > > > entity will result in the strength of the other. > > > > > > > > Thus coming back to your question -There are no multiple charts.As > > the > > > > brain cannot hold all the relationships a planet is having with 12 > > > > Rashis,we seperate each kind of relationship(sthoola sookshma > > sambandha) > > > > as a seperate entity(chart).Rashi the structure(chariot) is > > > > Sthoolashareera and one rashi is same as one bhava, though with a > > small > > > > conceptual difference.Rashi needs prana(got through planets,which in > > > > turn is from soorya) and other sookshama shareera entities for > > > > functioning.Think of Rashi as the chariot along with > > > > Krishna,Arjuna,Horses,reins etc,while thinking of Bhavas. > > > > > > > > One planet has many roles(It is like a variable).When we see it from > > a > > > > 30 degree span it relates to Kshethra.When we see it from a 3.2 > > degree > > > > span,it is relating to navamshas or pranas.Think like this - When we > > see > > > > from a sthoola position Krishna is just a charioteer.But when we see > > > > from a sookshma perspective,Krishna is intelligence.But it is the > > same > > > > Krishna sitting in the same Chariot.So are planets.Instead of seeing > > > > Krishna as an ''Intelligent Charioteer'' in the same Chariot ,we are > > > > trying to bring in another chariot(another chart). In reality there > > are > > > > only 12 Bhavas (aadheya tattwam) and 12 Rashis(Aadhara tattwa) and 9 > > > > planetary entities. > > > > > > > > You can never take a group of trimshamshas and analyze them as > > > > bhavas.They are just indriyas,alone.Indriyas cannot act in > > isolation,but > > > > only in relation with manas - which is in turn is part of > > > > mind(manas,chitta,budhi,ahamkara).You have to study them in relation > > to > > > > other entities.Same is the case with navamshas.Prana supplies vital > > > > energies.If a planet has joined debilitation,rashi through navamsha > > > > sambandha -it is showing lack of a particular prana support.See the > > > > bhava for which this planet is a lord and also its karakattwa to > > study > > > > results. > > > > > > > > Please try to understand the concept of Bhava.It is the unison of > > Atma > > > > and Manas.Other constituents,are just facilitators.HOLISTIC approach > > > > alone can take us towards Sakshathkaara.Hope you will give a patient > > > > ear.You can ofcourse still disagree,provided you have supporting > > logic. > > > > > > > > Regds > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > > hinduastrology@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > First of all I must say what I have not said so far - You can make > > > > people > > > > > think and also make them study the classics before they reply to > > you. > > > > I > > > > > admire your questions and even if you are not open to existence of > > > > certain > > > > > ideas (due to lack of reference in classics or logic or reasoning > > > > regarding > > > > > the idea or else), your approach is worthy of praise. > > > > > > > > > > Before we begin this journey, a small prayer: > > > > > > > > > > OM SAHANA VAVATU SAHANA BHUNATTU, SAHA VIRYAM KARAWAVAHAI > > > > > TEJASVINAVADITAMASTU MA VIDVISHAVAHAI > > > > > OM SHANTI ! SHANTI ! SHANTI ! > > > > > > > > > > * Together may be be protected > > > > > Together may we be nourished > > > > > Together may we work with great energy > > > > > May our journey together be brilliant and effective > > > > > May there be no hatred between us > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > Now, back to our discussion. Let us not discuss charts here and > > > > understand > > > > > the concepts: > > > > > > > > > > Though, 5 are the vital functions of Prana,the secondary ones too > > are > > > > > part of sookshma shareera. > > > > > I agreed with you even in my previous email. So no contention over > > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Jyotisha,we are studying the confluence of numerous > > entities,for eg > > > > > sookshma shareera,comprising of navapranas,dasha indriyas,manas > > and > > > > > budhi along with sthoola shareera.Pranas alone or indriyas alone > > > > cannot > > > > > make a meaning.All the entities have to act in coordination.The > > order > > > > or > > > > > samyoga krama from atma onwards is as follows.Atma joins > > Manas,Manas > > > > to > > > > > Indriyas,Indriyas to Vishayas(loosely translation > > ''subjects''),then > > > > > vishaya sukha etc. > > > > > > > > > > There are so many concepts in this one paragraph that I will need > > > > couple of > > > > > days to explain. Let me make some humble beginnings: > > > > > > > > > > 1. Action is not only that of the Sthoola Sarira. Each thought is > > > > likened to > > > > > an Action. To understand this, think of a person who becomes > > fearful > > > > of an > > > > > external situation. The fear is in the mind and it causes the > > > > discrimination > > > > > to vanish (vijnanamaya kosha) and it has effects on the (pranamaya > > > > kosha) > > > > > and through it on the (annamaya kosha). But if you think, fear is > > only > > > > in > > > > > the Mind. It is the action of the mind. Confluence of numerous > > > > entities is > > > > > fine, but, Veda is clear about cause and effect and in that we can > > see > > > > what > > > > > is going on in the manomaya kosha, that may or may not fructify > > into > > > > actual > > > > > physical action. If there was a way, we could understand that, > > would > > > > it not > > > > > be extremely helpful for any native? > > > > > > > > > > 2. Pranas and Jnana Indriyas have a great meaning alone. Blockages > > to > > > > prana > > > > > will give rise to disease in the Sthoola Sarira. I am taking a > > > > hypothetical > > > > > example - let's suppose one varga defines the functioning of apana > > and > > > > that > > > > > is showing defects, would it not mean directly that Sthoola Sarira > > > > will such > > > > > a disease? I think, through the varga we are going into the roots > > of > > > > things. > > > > > Remember what the Upanishad say, Prana prevade the sthoola sarira. > > > > This > > > > > means they are independent of the Sthoola Sarira and secondly, > > they > > > > are not > > > > > necessarily contained within the Sthoola Sarira. Now if some is > > deaf > > > > and > > > > > dumb or blind, the influence of those indriyas in not in the > > manomaya > > > > kosha. > > > > > How can you say with sureity that Prana and indriyas alone do not > > have > > > > any > > > > > meaning? That there are inter dependencies is fine, but causes lie > > > > deep > > > > > within through the kosas. > > > > > > > > > > 3. All entities may not act in coordination. This is the imbalance > > > > through > > > > > the manomaya kosha or pranamaya kosha. > > > > > > > > > > 4. Atma never joins the Manas. Atma is forever free. Atman is > > Brahman > > > > > (Mahavakya). Then, why do we call Atman and Brahman while > > referring it > > > > to > > > > > the same thing. It is because of our own limited thinking. Atman > > is > > > > referred > > > > > to the Truth while talking of the Self. While Brahman is spoken of > > as > > > > the > > > > > Truth while talking of the entirety. This does not make them > > different > > > > > entities. > > > > > Atma is Omnipresent and Omniscient, and therefore, it enlivens as > > > > cognition > > > > > in the mind. Mind is the collection of thoughts. It is born out of > > the > > > > > thought that I am not the whole. This "I" thought is the ego. > > > > Therefore, ego > > > > > takes a collection of thoughts and calls it one's mind. How is ego > > > > evident - > > > > > throught the light of Atma, how is mind evident - through the > > light of > > > > Atma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remember the verse of the Upanishad and of Aparokshanubhuti - Asti > > > > bhati > > > > > priyam rupam, naam ........ Aadhatriyam brahma rupam jagat rupam > > tato > > > > dvayam > > > > > (please do not mind my english transliteration). The existence, > > > > knowledge > > > > > and bliss of anything is of the nature of Brahman, whereas, nama > > and > > > > rupa is > > > > > the nature of the jagat (world). So that mind exists, and thought > > > > exists - > > > > > the existence is the quality of Atman but that we define a thought > > and > > > > give > > > > > a name to it, is born out of maya. > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, for Atma there is no mind. For the mind, it has to > > > > disengage from > > > > > the desiring activities to the entity that enlivens it, to have > > some > > > > idea of > > > > > Atma. (This is a very basic idea here just to intellectually have > > an > > > > idea of > > > > > Atman) > > > > > > > > > > Atma just goes where the manas is taking him. > > > > > Atman prevades vijnanamaya kosha and all objects and beings. Mind > > > > cannot > > > > > take it anywhere. Where mind goes, Atman is there already (many > > > > references > > > > > in Upanishad). > > > > > > > > > > 5. Mind is the controller of Indriyas in light of the Atman. > > Without > > > > its > > > > > light, indriyas would go out of control. For a moment, let us > > bring > > > > Dharma > > > > > instead of Atman. Dharma is vijnanamaya kosha. If Dharma isn't > > guiding > > > > the > > > > > mind, then mind cannot reign in the senses and that will result in > > > > > passionate actions. If one of the vargas is showing vijnana maya > > kosha > > > > and > > > > > another the manomaya kosha, their interaction will show whether or > > not > > > > the > > > > > native will follow Dharma while pursuing Artha and Kama. Is it > > not? > > > > > > > > > > Now, why are we making such an assumption? Is it a new theory? > > > > > Jyotish as a shastra is subservient to Vedas. If Vedas have given > > the > > > > > panchkoshas, there has to be its relevance in the charts. You also > > > > agree to > > > > > the same and only object to seeing the koshas separately (which is > > > > akin to > > > > > seeing the divisional charts separately). > > > > > > > > > > The underlying discussion should be held: > > > > > Whether the lagna chart is showing the Sthoola Sarira or it is the > > > > resultant > > > > > Jiva? I would love to hear your views. It could be both and each > > would > > > > raise > > > > > a volley of questions. If it is the resultant jiva, then, why > > study > > > > the > > > > > divisional chart at all. Why, even, go to the Navamsha? If it is > > the > > > > Sthoola > > > > > Sarira, then, why use it too much as most can be gathered through > > the > > > > > divisional chart? > > > > > > > > > > Mind as you have said has many functions - Budhi,Ahamkara,Chitta > > and > > > > > Manas.Manas is very important as it has a big role in directing > > our > > > > > indriyas.But as chitta,is past impressions stored,it can act with > > > > > guidance from Budhi (discriminator),to give proper signals to the > > > > > manas.For the same reason it is said,Guru aspecting 5th lord is > > Budhi > > > > > Madhurya(Dr.B.V.Raman 300 imp cominations).5th lords disposition > > from > > > > > Brihaspati is also important - It shows whether the instructions > > from > > > > > Brihaspati (Jnana Sukha karaka)can be received or not.Whenever we > > are > > > > > analyzing or trying to perceive,budhi interacts with chitta, to > > study > > > > > based on past impressions.These are passed on to manas.Manas > > process > > > > > these along with impressions(ongoing) gathered through > > > > > indriyas.Brihaspati is Jnana as well as Sukha Karaka.Budha is > > Jnana > > > > > Swarupa and karaka for ''Vak''.As we know control of indriyas,or > > > > > withdrawal is the only way, for taming the mind.But Mind is such a > > > > > thing, that is so difficult to control.Here Budhi & Chitta can be > > > > handy, > > > > > as mentioned above.Thus we may have to gain Vairagya through > > > > > practise,obeying to budhi. > > > > > > > > > > This is huge and I am already getting fatiqued. I wish you were > > here > > > > with me > > > > > discussing this, atleast I wouldn't have to type all. Nonetheless, > > let > > > > me > > > > > get started again: > > > > > > > > > > Budhi: discriminating, reasoning, judging faculty. Budhi judges > > based > > > > on its > > > > > understanding. The principles of Dharma should guide Buddhi. To > > > > discriminate > > > > > and follow, it needs the light of Truth or the reasoning why to > > follow > > > > > Dharma. The light is provided by Sun, that is why Mercury "tries" > > to > > > > be > > > > > close to Sun. This is the BudhaAditya Yoga. Jupiter is the store > > house > > > > of > > > > > intelligence and provides deep thinking on each stimuli. It, > > > > therefore, > > > > > represents Dharma. > > > > > > > > > > The Manas may or may not refer a matter to Budhi (most reactive > > stance > > > > are > > > > > manas acting alone). Budhi comes into play only if Manas lets it. > > Only > > > > if > > > > > Budhi is referred too, Dharma can come into play. Under Gajakesari > > > > Yoga, the > > > > > instincts of Dharma become strong and therefore, without referring > > to > > > > Budhi, > > > > > a person is able to do Dharmic actions. As Jupiter signifies > > Dharma, > > > > and > > > > > Dharma is the true way to lasting sukha, therefore it is the Sukha > > > > Karaka. > > > > > > > > > > To explain the above, we do not need the houses. The houses will > > > > provide the > > > > > sthoola Sarira the Kshetra of expression. Karma has to come from > > the > > > > graha. > > > > > By not providing the adequate Kshetra, the graha is unfilled or > > > > > disappointed. This is what happens if you see Jupiter is Kshetra > > of > > > > learning > > > > > and intelligence - it is brilliant. In Kshetra of war and Adharma, > > > > it's > > > > > expression is unfulfilled. > > > > > > > > > > Now the question comes - What do the signs and houses of Vargas > > > > provide - > > > > > Internal Kshetram? Subtle Kshetram? Is there no possibility of the > > > > same? > > > > > Now, if you understand that Prana and Manas is prevading beyond > > the > > > > boundary > > > > > of the sthoola sarira, this could mean a lot. Frankly, I have no > > clue > > > > now on > > > > > what the results would be. I require help over here and we need to > > > > research > > > > > (that is why I was certain of research). Another thing, re-search > > > > means > > > > > searching for something that already is, and, not for something > > > > altogether > > > > > new. > > > > > > > > > > The sookshma shareera spans across numerous koshas.Thus it may not > > be > > > > > easy to group or confine them within certain koshas as you have > > > > > mentioned.Eg.If Vargamshas from Kshethra to Dwadashamsha are > > > > > Annamaya,then how do you include navamshas which are > > > > > navapranas.Pranamaya Kosha is supposed to have pranas.But as i am > > not > > > > > sure,i am refraining from making comments. > > > > > I may be wrong. I agree and only need support that we all research > > > > together > > > > > instead of totally dismissing the idea. > > > > > > > > > > I may be wrong or right.But i am depending on classics to arrive > > at > > > > > conclusions.I do not have courage to frame theories.If you are > > > > > certain,you may kindly explain how nava pranas taken together can > > > > result > > > > > in a Bhava.My understanding is to think of, how pranas are > > infleuncing > > > > a > > > > > bhava.Classical examples too demonstrate the same. > > > > > You are free to hold your opinion and can correct me,with classics > > or > > > > > logic. > > > > > Till I discover BrahmaVidya, I will be wrong. My certainity lies > > in > > > > that the > > > > > vargas can be used separately. How to use them, I am uncertain. My > > > > logic and > > > > > reasoning points to their usage. Furthermore, how the vargas are > > being > > > > > analyzed in many books, I am uncertain if they are true too. > > > > > > > > > > I thank you for this free exchange and hope I do not get tired > > easily. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/21/06, vijayadas_pradeep vijayadas_pradeep@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bharat ji Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the detailed explanations and Koshas. > > > > > > Though, 5 are the vital functions of Prana,the secondary ones > > too > > > > are > > > > > > part of sookshma shareera.Dhananjaya is excepeted for the reason > > > > > > mentioned in the previous mail,and hence the other nine are > > related > > > > to > > > > > > navamshas. > > > > > > In Jyotisha,we are studying the confluence of numerous > > entities,for > > > > eg > > > > > > sookshma shareera,comprising of navapranas,dasha indriyas,manas > > and > > > > > > budhi along with sthoola shareera.Pranas alone or indriyas alone > > > > cannot > > > > > > make a meaning.All the entities have to act in coordination.The > > > > order or > > > > > > samyoga krama from atma onwards is as follows.Atma joins > > Manas,Manas > > > > to > > > > > > Indriyas,Indriyas to Vishayas(loosely translation > > ''subjects''),then > > > > > > vishaya sukha etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Atma just goes where the manas is taking him.Manas directs > > indriyas > > > > and > > > > > > indriyas associates with various vishayas and pleasures. > > > > > > Mind as you have said has many functions - Budhi,Ahamkara,Chitta > > and > > > > > > Manas.Manas is very important as it has a big role in directing > > our > > > > > > indriyas.But as chitta,is past impressions stored,it can act > > with > > > > > > guidance from Budhi (discriminator),to give proper signals to > > the > > > > > > manas.For the same reason it is said,Guru aspecting 5th lord is > > > > Budhi > > > > > > Madhurya(Dr.B.V.Raman 300 imp cominations).5th lords disposition > > > > from > > > > > > Brihaspati is also important - It shows whether the instructions > > > > from > > > > > > Brihaspati (Jnana Sukha karaka)can be received or not.Whenever > > we > > > > are > > > > > > analyzing or trying to perceive,budhi interacts with chitta, to > > > > study > > > > > > based on past impressions.These are passed on to manas.Manas > > process > > > > > > these along with impressions(ongoing) gathered through > > > > > > indriyas.Brihaspati is Jnana as well as Sukha Karaka.Budha is > > Jnana > > > > > > Swarupa and karaka for ''Vak''.As we know control of indriyas,or > > > > > > withdrawal is the only way, for taming the mind.But Mind is such > > a > > > > > > thing, that is so difficult to control.Here Budhi & Chitta can > > be > > > > handy, > > > > > > as mentioned above.Thus we may have to gain Vairagya through > > > > > > practise,obeying to budhi. > > > > > > > > > > > > The sookshma shareera spans across numerous koshas.Thus it may > > not > > > > be > > > > > > easy to group or confine them within certain koshas as you have > > > > > > mentioned.Eg.If Vargamshas from Kshethra to Dwadashamsha are > > > > > > Annamaya,then how do you include navamshas which are > > > > > > navapranas.Pranamaya Kosha is supposed to have pranas.But as i > > am > > > > not > > > > > > sure,i am refraining from making comments. > > > > > > > > > > > > But if you can close your eyes and think for few seconds,you can > > > > > > perceive what a Bhava is(Also think of Bhava in Nritta and > > Sangeetha > > > > - > > > > > > The art forms are expressions arising out of internal and > > external > > > > > > harmony.When one forgets about mind,True Bhava manifests with > > Laya > > > > or > > > > > > flow).It is the simultaneous functioniong of numerous > > entities.Think > > > > of > > > > > > the functioning of human system.A body(sthoola) simultaneously > > > > working > > > > > > with prana,indriya,manas,budhi,ahamkara etc can only have a > > > > Bhava.Prana > > > > > > alone does not have any bhava - so is manas - it has to get > > > > impressions > > > > > > from indriyas or past ones from chitta.How we are able to derive > > > > each > > > > > > and every amsha from individual rashis, holds the conclusion.A > > rashi > > > > is > > > > > > a sumtotal of all these.Planets are giving life,which they in > > turn > > > > have > > > > > > gained from Soorya.Purusha manifests as Prana. > > > > > > > > > > > > I may be wrong or right.But i am depending on classics to arrive > > at > > > > > > conclusions.I do not have courage to frame theories.If you are > > > > > > certain,you may kindly explain how nava pranas taken together > > can > > > > result > > > > > > in a Bhava.My understanding is to think of, how pranas are > > > > infleuncing a > > > > > > bhava.Classical examples too demonstrate the same. > > > > > > You are free to hold your opinion and can correct me,with > > classics > > > > or > > > > > > logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regds > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > > > > hinduastrology@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is no use giving simple explanations on the forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Taittirya Upanishad Chapter XIII: Than that, verily -than this > > one > > > > > > formed of > > > > > > > Prana -there is another self within formed of Manas. By Him > > this > > > > one > > > > > > is > > > > > > > filled. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When we talk of Jnana indriyas, we talk of two things- organs > > of > > > > > > perception > > > > > > > and their stimuli being registered in the mind. As the > > indriyas by > > > > > > itself > > > > > > > cannot bring Jnana or cognition, it is the Manomaya Kosha or > > the > > > > Mind > > > > > > that > > > > > > > brings it. The word Jnana indriyas therefore refers to > > perception. > > > > To > > > > > > say > > > > > > > perception rests with the Mind is okay to say that senses rest > > > > with > > > > > > the > > > > > > > mind, will be incorrect. So Jnana indriyas is another function > > of > > > > the > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > and a different one from its other functions. It should not be > > > > taken > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > separate organ or a place or else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The mano maya kosha is the first kosha in the order from gross > > to > > > > > > subtle to > > > > > > > be show cognition as it has more of Sattva Guna as compared to > > > > > > Pranamaya > > > > > > > kosha which is mostly Rajas and Anamayakosha that is mostly > > Tamas. > > > > So > > > > > > here > > > > > > > in lies the instrument of karana sakti, and the bhoga sakti. > > As of > > > > > > product > > > > > > > of Jnana sakti, it has various vrittis. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Desire, representation, doubt, faith, want of faith, want of > > > > > > firmness, > > > > > > > shame, reflection, fear - all in mind" - Brihadaryanka > > Upanishad > > > > 1-5-3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So among many functions Jnana Indriyas is the cognition of > > > > perception. > > > > > > But > > > > > > > senses shall remain in the sthoola sarira. Pranas that > > prevades > > > > the > > > > > > anamaya > > > > > > > kosha or the sthoola sarira, shall be the sthana of Karma > > > > Indriyas, > > > > > > meaning > > > > > > > the enabling the function of action. It is the carrier of > > Manomaya > > > > > > kosha's > > > > > > > directives to the limbs and organs of actions of the body. > > Again > > > > it is > > > > > > one > > > > > > > of the functions and not a separate place, or identity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Mano-maya kosha prevades the pranamaya kosha, the function > > of > > > > > > perception > > > > > > > shall prevade the pranamaya kosha but the senses itself shall > > not > > > > > > prevade > > > > > > > the pranamaya kosha. As Pranamaya does not have distinct > > parts, > > > > just > > > > > > as in > > > > > > > manomaya kosha, it is a unity present in every part of the > > body > > > > > > performing > > > > > > > its functions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, I see you mention 10 pranas. It is correct, though > > generally > > > > 5 > > > > > > > prominent ones are used and in the Upanishad these five are > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > (Maitreya Up. 2-6) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Trimshamshas are pancha jnanendriyas.Sun and Moon do not have > > any > > > > > > > ownership here.When we think it is clear. > > > > > > > It is the indriyas through which we are drawing impressions > > from > > > > the > > > > > > > external and hence the cause for evils. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we see the same, then, what I had suggested to you and the > > > > forum, > > > > > > earlier > > > > > > > could be true. D1-D12 - Anamaya kosha D13-D24 Pranamaya Kosha, > > > > D25-D36 > > > > > > > (where in D30 lies) Manomaya Kosha. (This was followed by chat > > > > with > > > > > > Sri Hari > > > > > > > and Sri Parthasarathy too) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could then, divisional charts (D25-D36) relate to the > > different > > > > > > functions of > > > > > > > the mind? I am certain of two things: > > > > > > > 1. They can be used separately in view of the above- how we > > need > > > > to > > > > > > find > > > > > > > out. Possible clues could be checking the cognition of > > different > > > > > > stimuli, > > > > > > > what desires move about, in what the person's faith lies, etc. > > > > After > > > > > > all, > > > > > > > the causes of bodily actions lie in these charts, there is > > much > > > > more > > > > > > to > > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. More research is needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/19/06, vijayadas_pradeep vijayadas_pradeep@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Anilkumar ji,Arjun ji ,Bharatji Namaskaar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EkaVimshopi(21) constituents of Sookshma shareera are > > composed > > > > of > > > > > > > > dwadasha(12) Budhindriyaadis and navapranas. > > > > > > > > Here 12,Budhi-indriyaadis are Budhi,Manas and 10 Indriyas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arjun ji as you may be aware,Organs are different from > > indriyas. > > > > > > > > 1)Jnanendriyas -smell,taste,see,touch,hear. > > > > > > > > 2)Karmendriyas -excrete,reproduce,move,grasp,speak. > > > > > > > > Thus nose,ear,legs etc are the organs corresponding to the > > above > > > > 10 > > > > > > > > indriyas. > > > > > > > > Nava Pranas are - > > > > > > > > Pranan,Apanan,Samanan,Vyanan,Udanan,Nagam,Koormam,Krikalam & > > > > > > > > Devadattam.Tenth Prana Dhananjaya,is for dead bodies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rashi is sthoola shareera ,comprising of Organs.But organs > > are > > > > just > > > > > > > > structures if there is no life.Thus Purusha manifests as > > Prana. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Trimshamshas are pancha jnanendriyas.Sun and Moon do not > > have > > > > any > > > > > > > > ownership here.When we think it is clear. > > > > > > > > It is the indriyas through which we are drawing impressions > > from > > > > the > > > > > > > > external and hence the cause for evils. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can indriyas alone be considered as a Bhava?No.Bhava is the > > > > > > confluence > > > > > > > > of many.We should think how it is possible to study all > > aspects > > > > > > > > pertaining to a jataka from ''Rashi Chakra''. > > > > > > > > This is possible as, one rashi becomes a bhava,when it has a > > > > lord > > > > > > w.r > > > > > > > > to lagna.For properly understanding the functioning of each > > > > Bhava,we > > > > > > > > have to see the subtle infleunces on bhava nathas.Each > > subtle > > > > > > > > infleunce will have a role,for eg,navamsha infleunce is > > > > > > corresponding > > > > > > > > to kalathra,bhagya etc. > > > > > > > > Thus sookshma shareera acts in sync with corresponding > > sthoola > > > > > > > > shareera organs.Trying to study them in isolation or > > considering > > > > > > Bhava > > > > > > > > there is beyond my understanding.Others who have understood > > may > > > > > > > > explain for better comprehension.We should think why we do > > not > > > > have > > > > > > > > shlokas to support bhavas in vargamsha groupings.Why is > > > > Vargottama > > > > > > > > important?Any planet is a Bhavanatha or karaka.When he is > > having > > > > > > > > similar subtle and gross infleuences,shubha results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When time permits ,i can share some more from the works of > > > > > > > > Mahamunis,if it is helpful for you.Mind - and its > > > > > > > > constituents,improtance of chitta(past impressions > > and),Budhi, > > > > > > > > Ahamkara etc.Chitta is also 5th house and PoorvaPunya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > namaste bharat ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i am looking at how to read from the signs, houses or > > planets > > > > on > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > kinds of indriyas (not body organs). we all learnt how > > bodily > > > > > > parts > > > > > > > > > are read from various houses starting from head from langa > > to > > > > feet > > > > > > > > > in the 12th. please share on reading of these indriyas > > > > (sensory > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > non-sensory) from a sign/house/planet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the two nadis ida and pingala are related to sun and moon. > > > > > > > > > similarly please share how the five vayus are read in > > > > astrology. > > > > > > i > > > > > > > > > understand that the seven chakras (mooladhara, > > svadhisthana, > > > > > > > > > manipuraka, anahata, vishuddha, ajna and sahasrara) can > > also > > > > be > > > > > > read > > > > > > > > > from a chart and have their correlation with signs, houses > > and > > > > > > > > > planets. would be grateful if any member share information > > on > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and regards > > > > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu > > > > Astrology" > > > > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Jnanaindriyas are the five senses of perception. The > > > > five > > > > > > > > > karma indriyas > > > > > > > > > > are organs of speech, hands, legs, organ of procreation, > > and > > > > > > organ > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > excretion. The pranamaya kosha (prana, apana, udana, > > vyana > > > > and > > > > > > > > > samana) > > > > > > > > > > provide the forces that make the indriyas function. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/18/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear anil ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep:Thus Rashis are 12 and they constitue 12 > > organs > > > > as > > > > > > > > > well as > > > > > > > > > > > > 12 bhavas.Sookshma shareera consists of navapranas > > and > > > > 12 > > > > > > > > > indiryas. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anil:There are 5 Jnyanendriyas and 5 Karmendriyas so > > 10 > > > > > > only. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please give supporting verses. Organs and Indriyas > > are > > > > > > > > > different. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without knowing whether the indriyas are twelve or > > ten, i > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > request > > > > > > > > > > > you to give their correlation to signs or houses in > > > > seriatim > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > me to > > > > > > > > > > > learn more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes you are right in saying that organs are different > > from > > > > > > > > > indriyas and > > > > > > > > > > > it is organs which we consider for medical astrology. > > if > > > > you > > > > > > > > > share > > > > > > > > > > > your knowledge on indriyas it would help me understand > > > > better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > > > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > > > > > > > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > > > > > > > > astrology</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > > > > > > > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > horoscope</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > > > > > > > > > > > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > > > > > > > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > software</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > > > > > > > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > > > > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - To from this group, send an email to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Your use of is subject to the > > Terms > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: > > > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > > > > > > vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > > > > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > > > > > > > > > > > > hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4\ \ > > \ > > > > \ > > > > > > &s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > > > > > > > > > > > > gy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software\ \ > > \ > > > > \ > > > > > > &c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > > > > > > > > > > > > rology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+soft\ \ > > \ > > > > \ > > > > > > ware&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > > > > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > > > > > > > > > > > > logy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+softwa\ \ > > \ > > > > \ > > > > > > re&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group > > > > > > "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology-@@y\ > > > > > > ahoogroups.com?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Terms > > of > > > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > > > > vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > > > > > > hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4\ \ > > \ > > > > &s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > > > > > > gy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software\ \ > > \ > > > > &c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > > > > > > rology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+soft\ \ > > \ > > > > ware&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > > > > > > logy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+softwa\ \ > > \ > > > > re&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group > > > > "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology-@@y\ > > > > ahoogroups.com?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > - Terms of > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > > vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology > > chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > > hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4\ \ > > &s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > > > > > > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > > gy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software\ \ > > &c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > > > > > > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > > rology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+soft\ \ > > ware&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro\ \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > > logy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+softwa\ \ > > re&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group > > "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > vedic astrology-@y\ > > ahoogroups.com?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > - Terms of > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c\ hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4\ &s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo\ gy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software\ &c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast\ rology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+soft\ ware&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro\ logy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+softwa\ re&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > > on the web. > > > > - > > vedic astrology-@y\ ahoogroups.com?subject=Un> > > > > - Terms of > > Service <>. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > ______________________ ______________________ Message: 16 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 22:26:22 -0000 "vijayadas_pradeep" <vijayadas_pradeep Re: Sun in Aris in Natal chart - Let us predict - An excersise Dear Sreenadh Thanks for intiating this exercise. Devika ji it was good to read your understanding.Pls share your logic.I guess, 5th lord of naisargika chart exalted in Lagna - Authoritative,High ego,Powerful,determined,happiness from children. Both being firy - There is no control or check on Soorya ,which can lead to overconfidence and lack of prudence Mars-is Satwa & Aham Budhi - The strength which gives samabhavana during worries and happiness and the Í feeling.Thus such individuals will have high Atma bala and energy for hard work and perseverence.Cannot listen to others.In the Kshethra of Kuja,Soorya will enjoy the most and the ego thus takes culmination. Will wait for more valuable inputs from learned scholars. Pradeep vedic astrology, Devika Dhillon <devikadhillon wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh, > Thanks for taking this exercise a step further. Although I am not a learned, I will attempt to start on this. Both, Aries and Sun are fiery. This can attribute to highly energetic, athletic and aggressive tendency. Exalted, Sun in Aries becomes more intensive. > The characteristics of these people tend to be: Tall and Attractive, determined, brave, innovative, proud, quick acting, impatient, power hungry, leaders, independent, self-confident, stubborn, monetary problems, happiness from male children and they tend to worry about mental sickness, may have weak eye sight. They also think that the world revolves around them (false ego). > The occupation of these people could be related to military or fire fighters( Aries/Mars), engineering or metal related (Aries + Sun). > > Devika. > > Sreenadh sreelid wrote: > Dear All, > You can consider this as another step of the "Let us predict (with > Lagna alone)" exercise we have done earlier. > Think that the only thing we know about a horoscope is that, Sun is > placed in Aries. What are the things we can predict about the native > based on this info alone? > Let us play. Let us try to make it a worthy exercise. If anyone is > interested in the same, I would joyously participate in this > exercise, as a team mate. > I invite all the knowledgeable dear friends like Pradeep, RK Dash, > Guruji Dakshnamoorthi, Pandit ji, Praveen, Anil ji, Nemani ji, and > all the other true researchers to participate in this exercise. Let > us bring out the possibilities. > If you felt that the "Let us predict with Lagna alone" was a worthy > exercise, then let us joyously participate in this exercise as well, > and let us enjoy the beauty of astrology. > Points to remember: > ------------------- > 1) The only thing we know about the horoscope is that Su is placed > in Aries. > 2) Only the Sign and Planet would be considered in prediction. > 3) Karakathwas of the Sign, and Karakathwas of Planet can be > extensively used. (i.e. The Meterials-Places-Events-Qualities-Persons- > Organs-Diseases-Emotions-Gods etc that Aries and Sun signify becomes > important and can be extensively used in prediction). > 4)The concepts such as Kalapurusha, Yugadi, Charadi, Bhoothadi etc > classification of signs can be used. > 5) Remember that we are trying to explore the Natal chart and NOT > the presna or Muhoortha chart. > 6) Any info that is outside these pre-set boundaries should not be > used. > Hope that at least some would find this exercise beneficial. I am > eagerly waiting for the response from all directions. > Love, > Sreenadh > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > Astrology chart Vedic astrology Astrology horoscope Astrology software > > > > > > Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web. > > > vedic astrology > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > Mail > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. > > > ______________________ ______________________ Message: 17 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 23:00:16 +0000 (GMT) Richard Shaw Brown <rsbj66 Re: Round One Mukhi Nepali Rudraksha ??? Dear All, I believe I had seen a real round one mukhi owned by Nepal's late patron saint Hari Siddhi Kali Baba. He let me keep it for a week to set in gold for him. I examined with a 10x loupe and sure enough it looked real and natural. I asked Kali Baba what is the "test" for eka mukhi, and he said they would flow upstream if placed in a river (against the current); he also said that if cows milk is poured onto a eka mukhi (goul dhana) the bead would climb UP the flow of milk and enter the pot. I never tested his eka mukhi, but I almost did when I took it to the bank of the Bhagmati river and was going to check. Once at the river side it was flowing fast and muddy water... so I was afraid to put it into the river in case it gets lost. To the best of my knowledge Kali Baba was cremated wearing his eka mukhi, plus his full mala of 108 beads all 14 faced. I also made a one kg silver and gold Trisula with the 7 gems for him and if anyone wants to see it then please visit the photos section of this group on left side of sacred-objects/ Open the "saints" file and there you'll find Kali Baba and his jeweled Trisula and also wearing his eka mukhi goal dhana. Check it out. Kali Baba took me many times to PashupatiNath mandira and he knew all the rudraksha and Shalagram sellers on the temple road. He showed me how they make phony eka mukhi. AND, he said, except for his, the others were all bogus 100%. Kali Baba's picture from 1977 is also attached just in case... Best regards, Richard Richard Shaw-Brown, PG Designer & Gemologist http://www.richardshawbrown.com http://www.agt-gems.com http://www.astralgemstonetalismans.com http://www.themisunderstood.com http://www.hrisikesh.com http://www.hrisikesh.net http://www.p-g-a.org http://www.satyavrat-shastri.net http://www.generalprem.com http://www.navaratna-museum.info http://www.sacred-objects.info Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. ______________________ ______________________ Message: 18 Thu, 23 Feb 2006 02:41:12 +0000 (GMT) Richa Gupta <astro_destination Re: Sun in Aris in Natal chart - Let us predict - An excersise Dear sir, your exercise is very effective for the learners like us. I can say that the person will hv ego, he want to live like a king. He will think his/her personality above all. His/her father can be in Gov.His father will hv good status of life or will hv some peaks of principals/notions. He will hv good strength of body and will show himself/herself a bright star. His confidence level will be high. Thanks and regards Richa Gupta Sreenadh <sreelid wrote: Dear All, You can consider this as another step of the "Let us predict (with Lagna alone)" exercise we have done earlier. Think that the only thing we know about a horoscope is that, Sun is placed in Aries. What are the things we can predict about the native based on this info alone? Let us play. Let us try to make it a worthy exercise. If anyone is interested in the same, I would joyously participate in this exercise, as a team mate. I invite all the knowledgeable dear friends like Pradeep, RK Dash, Guruji Dakshnamoorthi, Pandit ji, Praveen, Anil ji, Nemani ji, and all the other true researchers to participate in this exercise. Let us bring out the possibilities. If you felt that the "Let us predict with Lagna alone" was a worthy exercise, then let us joyously participate in this exercise as well, and let us enjoy the beauty of astrology. Points to remember: ------------------- 1) The only thing we know about the horoscope is that Su is placed in Aries. 2) Only the Sign and Planet would be considered in prediction. 3) Karakathwas of the Sign, and Karakathwas of Planet can be extensively used. (i.e. The Meterials-Places-Events-Qualities-Persons- Organs-Diseases-Emotions-Gods etc that Aries and Sun signify becomes important and can be extensively used in prediction). 4)The concepts such as Kalapurusha, Yugadi, Charadi, Bhoothadi etc classification of signs can be used. 5) Remember that we are trying to explore the Natal chart and NOT the presna or Muhoortha chart. 6) Any info that is outside these pre-set boundaries should not be used. Hope that at least some would find this exercise beneficial. I am eagerly waiting for the response from all directions. Love, Sreenadh Astrology chart Vedic astrology Astrology horoscope Astrology software Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web. vedic astrology Terms of Service. Om Namah Shivay Richa Gupta Jiyo cricket on India cricket Messenger Mobile Stay in touch with your buddies all the time. ______________________ ______________________ Message: 19 Thu, 23 Feb 2006 03:14:36 -0000 "balasubramanian_natesan2002" <parvamani Re: Valampuri Lakshmi Shank Suppliers Raghunath Rao Ji, The following extract from Astrological magazine may answer your questions N.Balasubramanian. THE HOLY SHANKA The conch or Shanka a particular variety of sea shell, has been held in great veneration in India from times immemorial.The word Shankha is derivcd thus: duhkha samayati itih i.e it removes sorrow . It is deemed to be one of the legendary nidhis held in the safe custody of Kubera, treasurer of the Heavenly Kingdom To understand its significance fully, one must know the derivation of the word nidhi which runs thus: : nitaram :dheeyate asmin, that which is propiated/ conserved most. The nine legendary nidhis are:according to Amara: Mahha padma,Padma, Shanka, Makara, Kacchapa,Mukunda,Neela,andKharva. some of the prayers offered to it before starting of pujas or shankhapuja which is preliminary to the worship of deities. After pouring some water in the Shankha and offering it sandal paste and kumkum the prayers offered, are like this: 0 Shankha you are born in the ocean(during Amrithamanthan). Lord Vishnu holds you in His hand. The devas in heaven conserve you. Adoration unto you Panchajanya. The water poured in it becomes holy and fit for abisheka . It is a common knowledge that latter is the name of Vishnu’s Shanka The specific mantra for- worshipping Shanka is known as ShanKhaGayat'ii_ It runs thus: Shankarajaya vidkahe mahashankhaya dheemahi Tannas Shankhaprochodaya The Shank is_aIso held to represent naadabrahma or God in the form of sound. Mythology has it that this shanka took_several avataras, one of which was the vaishnavite saint Nammalvar. Shankas are of two kinds. The vaamavartaas and the Dakshinavarta. Hold the conch in the blowing posture with its apex to the mouth, and the cavity turned upwards. If the cavity is to your left it is vaama variety, which is the common one we come across in the house holds or blowing in temples. If the cavity is to th right, it is Dakshinavarta, the most holy and valuable one. It is called valampuri in tamil. In theDakS.hinavarta variety, three different types are known- Vishnu, Ganesha, and Devi the first is distinguished by three folds in its inner lip. .. TheVishnu shanka has a beautiful white sheen usually Vishnu shanka is mounted in gold and placed before the altar in temples and homes for puja Ganesha.Shankhas are very rare.Only a dozen has been known to be in possession of shanka lovers. It is shorter in length and has either a pink or brown gloss both inside and outside A skin surrounds its inner and outer surface, which peels off with time. The third shanka is Devi Shanka which too is of course Dakshinaavarta. It has 9 to 30 petals in the minor lip and has pink or dark brown lines on them. In this kind white specimens are best for puja. The lengths vary from 2†to 18†A small one can even be set in a ring or worn on the finger it is said that Vishnu shanka yields the best results when kept along with Devi shanka. Now he value of valampuri does not depend on size or weight, but on quality, shape, symmetry, colour and vibration of the humming sound “Omkarâ€. As in a vaccum flask you hear. When pressed to the ear. When you see one that is suspicious, see that there are no spots, cracks, and marks Pour water in the cavity, it should enter the bosom in spirals and also it should be tested for Omkar sound. If it fails in these tests, it must be rejected as fake, Regarding form of worship,it is done just like any other Hindu diety. Abhshekashould not be offered. Actually it should be fitted in a velvet box with a fitting cut out_and closed after after worship, lest it should be spoiled by insects, dust and climate. Any one. Who has right to worship deities or enter Hindu temples can worship the Shanka also.In effect it is like a Saligrama. Daily puja along with other deities will conduce to the prosperity of the whole family, as is evident in number of cases. The science dealing with conch is known as Conchology. vedic astrology, "Raghunatha RaoNemani" <raon1008 wrote: > > Om Krishna Guru > > Namaste Richard Ji, > > What is this "Valampuri Lakshmi Shank" ? > How does it help a native ? > What is the procedure to keep this Shank at home ? > > I am interested to know answers to those questions, can you please > write some details about it or alternatively, please point me to some > resource, where I can read my self also. > > I am sorry, if you have already answered to these basic questions, if > you did, kindly point meto the message reference,where I can read > about it. > > Thanks for your help in advance. > > Regards > Raghunatha Rao > > > vedic astrology, Richard Shaw Brown > <rsbj66@> wrote: > > Suppliers of REAL Valampuri Lakshmi Shank Shells > > 1) G.S.JOHN RAMNATH "omegaa@" <omegaa1@> > > 2) John Ravi <johnravi@> OR johnravi_135@ > > 3) Chandrashekar Phadki (Sacred Objects Member) --- can provide X- ray > proof > > Good luck to all!!! Om svastyastu!!! > > Always, buyer beware!!! > > Best rgds > > Richard Shaw-Brown, PG > Designer & Gemologist > ______________________ ______________________ Message: 20 Thu, 23 Feb 2006 03:12:45 -0000 "balasubramanian_natesan2002" <parvamani Re: Valampuri Lakshmi Shank Suppliers Raghunath Rao Ji, The following extract from Astrological magazine may answer your questions N.Balasubramanian. THE HOLY SHANKA The conch or Shanka a particular variety of sea shell, has been held in great veneration in India from times immemorial.The word Shankha is derivcd thus: duhkha samayati itih i.e it removes sorrow . It is deemed to be one of the legendary nidhis held in the safe custody of Kubera, treasurer of the Heavenly Kingdom To understand its significance fully, one must know the derivation of the word nidhi which runs thus: : nitaram :dheeyate asmin, that which is propiated/ conserved most. The nine legendary nidhis are:according to Amara: Mahha padma,Padma, Shanka, Makara, Kacchapa,Mukunda,Neela,andKharva. some of the prayers offered to it before starting of pujas or shankhapuja which is preliminary to the worship of deities. After pouring some water in the Shankha and offering it sandal paste and kumkum the prayers offered, are like this: 0 Shankha you are born in the ocean(during Amrithamanthan). Lord Vishnu holds you in His hand. The devas in heaven conserve you. Adoration unto you Panchajanya. The water poured in it becomes holy and fit for abisheka . It is a common knowledge that latter is the name of Vishnu’s Shanka The specific mantra for- worshipping Shanka is known as ShanKhaGayat'ii_ It runs thus: Shankarajaya vidkahe mahashankhaya dheemahi Tannas Shankhaprochodaya The Shank is_aIso held to represent naadabrahma or God in the form of sound. Mythology has it that this shanka took_several avataras, one of which was the vaishnavite saint Nammalvar. Shankas are of two kinds. The vaamavartaas and the Dakshinavarta. Hold the conch in the blowing posture with its apex to the mouth, and the cavity turned upwards. If the cavity is to your left it is vaama variety, which is the common one we come across in the house holds or blowing in temples. If the cavity is to th right, it is Dakshinavarta, the most holy and valuable one. It is called valampuri in tamil. In theDakS.hinavarta variety, three different types are known- Vishnu, Ganesha, and Devi the first is distinguished by three folds in its inner lip. .. TheVishnu shanka has a beautiful white sheen usually Vishnu shanka is mounted in gold and placed before the altar in temples and homes for puja Ganesha.Shankhas are very rare.Only a dozen has been known to be in possession of shanka lovers. It is shorter in length and has either a pink or brown gloss both inside and outside A skin surrounds its inner and outer surface, which peels off with time. The third shanka is Devi Shanka which too is of course Dakshinaavarta. It has 9 to 30 petals in the minor lip and has pink or dark brown lines on them. In this kind white specimens are best for puja. The lengths vary from 2†to 18†A small one can even be set in a ring or worn on the finger it is said that Vishnu shanka yields the best results when kept along with Devi shanka. Now he value of valampuri does not depend on size or weight, but on quality, shape, symmetry, colour and vibration of the humming sound “Omkarâ€. As in a vaccum flask you hear. When pressed to the ear. When you see one that is suspicious, see that there are no spots, cracks, and marks Pour water in the cavity, it should enter the bosom in spirals and also it should be tested for Omkar sound. If it fails in these tests, it must be rejected as fake, Regarding form of worship,it is done just like any other Hindu diety. Abhshekashould not be offered. Actually it should be fitted in a velvet box with a fitting cut out_and closed after after worship, lest it should be spoiled by insects, dust and climate. Any one. Who has right to worship deities or enter Hindu temples can worship the Shanka also.In effect it is like a Saligrama. Daily puja along with other deities will conduce to the prosperity of the whole family, as is evident in number of cases. The science dealing with conch is known as Conchology. vedic astrology, "Raghunatha RaoNemani" <raon1008 wrote: > > Om Krishna Guru > > Namaste Richard Ji, > > What is this "Valampuri Lakshmi Shank" ? > How does it help a native ? > What is the procedure to keep this Shank at home ? > > I am interested to know answers to those questions, can you please > write some details about it or alternatively, please point me to some > resource, where I can read my self also. > > I am sorry, if you have already answered to these basic questions, if > you did, kindly point meto the message reference,where I can read > about it. > > Thanks for your help in advance. > > Regards > Raghunatha Rao > > > vedic astrology, Richard Shaw Brown > <rsbj66@> wrote: > > Suppliers of REAL Valampuri Lakshmi Shank Shells > > 1) G.S.JOHN RAMNATH "omegaa@" <omegaa1@> > > 2) John Ravi <johnravi@> OR johnravi_135@ > > 3) Chandrashekar Phadki (Sacred Objects Member) --- can provide X- ray > proof > > Good luck to all!!! Om svastyastu!!! > > Always, buyer beware!!! > > Best rgds > > Richard Shaw-Brown, PG > Designer & Gemologist > ______________________ ______________________ Message: 21 Thu, 23 Feb 2006 13:03:25 +0530 "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology Re: Re: Krishna the charioteer and Arjuna -Bharat ji -Indriyas/Manas etc. Namaskaar Sri Pradeep The verses that you have quoted, need proper explanation with references. The verse mentioning Amsha is to explain that the consciousness that the individual thinks as its own and separate from others, and therefore, separate from Brahman can mean - That there is a substance separate from Brahman existing. To refute the same Sri Krishna explains that the consciousness within is of as if an amsha of Brahman. This is a small sentence right now. Do not comment on it. I am preparing the full reply but it will take time. This verse has to be seen from explanations given in the 13th Chapter too. I think I will end up writing an exposition on Srimad Bhagavad Gita! Harih Aum Sri Gurubhyoh Namah, Harih Aum! Thanks and Regards Bharat On 2/23/06, vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > Dear Bharat ji Namaskar > > Whether you have understood Upanishads or Gita is beyond my perception > and my job is not to judge that.What i have said is based on classical > shlokas. > > Mamaivamsho Jeevaloke > Jeeva Bhootha Sanathana > Mana shashtaneendriyaani > Prakrithi sthani Karshathi > > Bhagavad Gita,Chapter 15,Purushottama Yoga,Shloka 7. > > My own Sanathana AMSHA manifests as Jeeva(jeevatma) in jeevaloka and > attracts the six indriyas including Manas(5 jnanendriyas plus > Manas),situated in Prakrithi.Please note the word AMSHA. > > Yujnannevam Sadathmanam > Yogee Niyatha Manasa > Shanthim Nirvana Paramam > Malsamstham adhi gachathi.(Sixth chapter Dhyanayoga,shloka 15). > > The yogi who has controlled the mind and the one who has made the mind > join with atma, will attain the height of shanthi in me. > > Now let us take > AHAM BRAHMASMI - I AM BRAHMAN OR I AM HIM.They are one and the same,but > how? > What is the difference between spark(amsha) and Sun(Whole);Drop(amsha) > and Ocean(Whole)? > The drop is no different from Ocean,but all the drops collectively forms > the Ocean.Spark is no different from the Sun but all the sparks together > forms the Sun. > They are the same but they together constitute HIM.HE is in all,but all > together it is HIM.This is the difference between Jivatma and > Paramatma.It is difficult to express in words.Collective or Holistic > feeling is Supreme consciousness. > > Joining of Mind and Atma and attainment of Bhava has to be experienced > through music.It cannot be expressed in words. > > Thanks a lot for offering books and help. > > Chandrashekhar ji has always told,''If you sincerely look for Knowledge > you will find it''. > > Couple of years back,i had requested Ramanarayanan ji for some books > ''The books you are looking for are already within you,You have to > sharpen .....''.Ramanarayanan ji has guided whenever i was in need.I > have expressed my concerns and differences regrading varga bhavas too. > > When i had told about my lack of knoweldge in Sanskrit - Sri > Chandrahari said ''Fix your mind on Shiva and recite OM NAMA > SHIVAYA,everything will come automatically,no need to study anything'' > > Sreenadh ji is well read in classics and has not found a single > reference supporting seperate bhavas for amshas.Indriyas and Navapranas > do not have any lagna or Bhavas,But they infleuence Lagna and dwadasha > bhavas.I do not know why it is so difficult to understand!!! > > I honestly agree that i have read very few books,no upanishads,no > vedas,and very few jyotish books.In that way i may be a pauper as > compared to you.But i trust the words of above Gurusthaneeyas.I feel the > biggest treasure of knoweldge is within us and not in any books.Ever > since i have been meeting AMRITANANDA MAYI AMMA,i feel no insecurity at > all.There is no bigger Yogi and Guru than Parama Shiva. > > Let us travel together and learn from each other.Let the discretion > helps us in seperating good and bad.Listen to everyone,and take the > good.Neither you are, nor i am, a challenger. > > Thanks > Pradee > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > <hinduastrology wrote: > > > > Namaskaar Sri Pradeep > > > > AUM! > > > > All the answers for your queries,are in Bhagawat Gita.When Lord > Krishna > > HIMSELF has explained them in detail,i do not think any one has to > > elaborate further. > > > > If I may say so, the query was yours. I used the Upanishads to explain > the > > same. Bhagavad Gita is one of the finest expositions on the Upanishads > and > > it does not alter the saying of the Upanishad. > > > > Bhagwan has explained to Arjuna on how to fix ones mind on HIM.What i > > have told is nothing more.We have to understand the difference between > > jivatma and Paramatma here.We are talking about jivatma,which is a > spark > > of the very Paramatma. > > Is the drop of water in an ocean separate from the ocean? When inside > the > > Ocean do you see water everywhere or do you see droplets of water > > separately? When we talk on infinite lord, do you see any parts in it? > When > > you see infinite space - can you divide it? The room space, wall > space, > > garden space, city space is after all space. Jivatma does not refer to > a > > separate Atma but the notion of it in the mind. Please this is the > > difference. > > > > Finally mind will dissolve and just the Atma > > remains which will unite jivatma and Paramtma. > > If such was the case, then, every night in deep sleep they would unite > as > > mind is not there. Read Mandukya Upanishad with Sri Gaupada's Karika. > The > > notion dissolving is not the mind dissolving. Do trees have to vanish > for me > > to see Atman? Did Ramakrishna Paramhansa not see people around him? > > > > Budhi is the mediator here.Please don't get distracted by various > > translations of Gita.Just think how we are breaking sheaths one by one > and > > joining HIM.This is dissolving of mind in Atma - total dissolution is > > assimilation. > > I am not going by translations of Srimad Bhagavat Gita. I am going by > the > > teachings of the Upanishad. I have given many references of the same. > Kindly > > do not reject those teachings are mere interpretations of translators! > The > > teachings have been given with complete logic and reasoning. > > > > Breaking sheaths amount to saying that pranas do not function in a > Jeevan > > Mukta. This statement is totally against the Upanishads. Kindly give > > reference either in the Upanishads or the Bhagavad Gita. > > > > Atma knows everything as it is part of the Pure Bodha or > > Consciousness.Bhava is thus the joining of Atma and Manas. > > Look at the contradiction - If you say Atma is a part of > Consciousness, then > > it would be perishable. As it is limited and not infinite. You are > going > > against the very basis of Mahavakya - Atman is Brahman. > > > > Pradeep, please do not take in the wrong manner, but it would do you > good if > > you study the above subjects carefully under guidance of a Guru. I can > > suggest you some books to start with, to make things easier. It is > these > > errors that are making you question again and again. > > > > If you feel I do not understand (even intellectually) the Upanishads > or the > > Bhagavad Gita, then, the discussion should stop here. However, if you > > understand that I know something, then you can ask n number of > questions. I > > will only initiate this learning process if you approach as a learner > and > > not as a challenger. > > > > A musician can sing based on lower intellectual analysis or higher > > influence.When it is lower,he concentrates or just repeats the > > techniques as taught.But in the higher state he forgets mind and music > > comes from Atma.It will come from within.Bhava can result only with > > that. > > When one sings because it comes naturally, then it is the highest > form. The > > desire for appreciation, etc is absent in such a case. In doing so, > why do > > you personalize Atman as that of a musician just because he has broken > > identification from the mind. This example does not in any case prove > that > > there are separate Atmans floating around. > > > > Bhava is thus the joining of Atma and Manas.Musician was > > just an example.Think of the act smile.We can smile just with lip > > movement or lip plus chin,cheeks,facial muscles etc.But the smile is > not > > having bhava if it not coming from within.Then there is a > > confluence. > > In the above case, as the limitedness of Manas is disassociated with, > > therefore the Bhava comes, not because of the joining of the two! How > can an > > Omnipresent join or remove from anything? > > First verse of Isa Upanishad - All that is there, is verily the Lord! > > Therefore, the concept of Jivatman is a notion. Do not build the > entire > > theory of bhava on a false notion. This is serious confusion and you > must > > talk to a Siddha Guru regarding the same. > > > > There is a frequent example in the Upanishads about the rope and the > snake. > > This example states that if in a dark corner a rope lies and if you > see it > > as a snake, then, your mind is superimposing the idea of the snake > because > > the base is rope. This is because the imaginary snake borrows shape of > the > > real rope. Here snake is Maya and rope is Brahman. The idea is space > and > > time are endless because Brahman is, so space and time seem that way. > This > > example does not mean that Brahman is Rope! > > > > You have taken two examples, that of Chariot and of Jeevatman and > converted > > them into something like the above. To help you understand, if you > give me > > the references of the texts, I'll try and explain to the best of my > > abilities. > > > > Bhava is a kshetra of the Sthoola Sarira if you take Rashi chart as > the > > Sthoola Sarira. If you take it as a sum total of all koshas, then, we > have a > > different discussion at hand. > > > > Again, in your analysis you have not touched upon the anandamaya kosha > and > > its kshetram. > > > > This is why, we chant Om sahana vavatu before every class. Often, the > > discussion can get heated as the subject matter is Self. Noone takes > kindly > > to breaking of self imposed notions. > > > > Do let me know if you want to systematically study the texts. I can > provide > > you with the basic list before going on to the most powerful Texts. > > > > Harih Aum > > Sri Gurubhyo Namah > > Hari Aum > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > Hari Aum Tat Sat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/22/06, vijayadas_pradeep vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Bharat ji Namaskar > > > > > > All the answers for your queries,are in Bhagawat Gita.When Lord > Krishna > > > HIMSELF has explained them in detail,i do not think any one has to > > > elaborate further. > > > > > > Bhagwan has explained to Arjuna on how to fix ones mind on HIM.What > i > > > have told is nothing more.We have to understand the difference > between > > > jivatma and Paramatma here.We are talking about jivatma,which is a > spark > > > of the very Paramatma.Finally mind will dissolve and just the Atma > > > remains which will unite jivatma and Paramtma.Budhi is the mediator > > > here.Please don't get distracted by various translations of > Gita.Just > > > think how we are breaking sheaths one by one and joining HIM.This is > > > dissolving of mind in Atma - total dissolution is assimilation. > > > > > > There is a purpose for the creation of mind.Without it the ''game'' > is > > > not possible. > > > Thus Shiva/Shakthi,Purusha/Prakrithi,Atma/Manas,Surya/Chandra etc > have > > > Paraspara Ashrayatwa or mutual dependency.It is all the same.When we > say > > > ''wherever mind is going'' - it is not a physical displacement.It is > > > Manovyapara.Atma is the spark of HIM within us.It is just sitting as > an > > > observer,and goes wherever the mind takes him,and remains > > > unaffected.Budhi is the discriminator,who can decide what is wriong > and > > > what is right.When Budhi is refined,or when the dust and impurities > are > > > removed,Budhi will act as it is supoosed to.Indriyas and Vishaya > Sukhas > > > can cloud Budhi.Once these are tamed,Manas Joins Budhi and then > finally > > > it joins Atma.Total dissolution.Bhagavan has made this crystal > clear. > > > > > > A musician can sing based on lower intellectual analysis or higher > > > influence.When it is lower,he concentrates or just repeats the > > > techniques as taught.But in the higher state he forgets mind and > music > > > comes from Atma.It will come from within.Bhava can result only with > > > that.Atma knows everything as it is part of the Pure Bodha or > > > Consciousness.Bhava is thus the joining of Atma and Manas.Musician > was > > > just an example.Think of the act smile.We can smile just with lip > > > movement or lip plus chin,cheeks,facial muscles etc.But the smile is > not > > > having bhava if it not coming from within.Then there is a > > > confluence.Word or Vak is supreme.Nada is Supreme.Hence musical > > > expressions can make us feel Bhava or unison with HIM,atleast for a > few > > > seconds,when striving for perfection. > > > > > > Once the concept of Bhava is clear,we can discuss astrological > vargas.i > > > am pretty sure that you have enough intelligence to understand the > > > same.Whole universe is permeated with his spark.The colelctive > feeling > > > of all these is Supreme Bodha.In Jyotisha one unison of Atma and > Manas > > > is one Bhava.Indriyas,Budhi,Prana etc are facilitators. > > > > > > Kind Regds > > > Pradeep > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > hinduastrology@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Pradeep > > > > > > > > Om Astoma Sad Gamaya. > > > > Tamasoma Jyothir Gamaya. > > > > Mrityorma Amritam Gamaya. > > > > Om Shantih! Shantih! Shantih! > > > > > > > > Here I go again: > > > > > > > > regarding Bhagawan Krishna & Arjuna.It will clear all our > doubts.Think > > > > of soul as jivatma in the current context,sitting inside the > > > > chariot.What is the meaning of charioteer.It is > intelligence.krishna > > > had > > > > taken over the control of intelligence from Arjuna(false > > > > identification).Horses are Indriyas.The reins represent operations > of > > > > the mind.If the charioteer does not apply control,the horses may > run > > > > wherever they want.Also if reins(mind) are left alone after an > initial > > > > operation,the horses will keep on running as per the initial > > > > instruction.Intelligence corresponds with indriyas through > > > > manas.Intelligence can sometimes be clouded and can act based on > > > > senses.Thus withdrawal of senses,can result in true > intelligence,if it > > > > is weak as per jataka. Thus chariot is sthoola shareera.but > Chariot > > > has no > > > > life or movement if it is devoid of the above said entities > > > -collectively > > > > called as Sookshma > > > > shareera. > > > > > > > > This is a well known analogy and till now I agree. I believe you > are > > > taking > > > > the lagna chart as the sthoola Sarira (in your comments below) > > > > > > > > Atma has no desire.It is upto 'Us' to go back to our real Us- > > > > ''Atma''.But Atma and Manas do have Paraspara ashrayatwa.Becasue > atma > > > > joins or follows manas, wherever he is taking,as an > observer.(Think of > > > > the soul in the chariot moving along with the movement of chariot > > > which > > > > is according to the direction from manas on to the > horses(indriyas)). > > > > Now you have extended the example. This is a common mistake for > those > > > > studying Vedanta. The analogy of the chariot = Sharira, Arjuna > being > > > the > > > > Jivatma and Krishna meaning identification with the Real self is > okay. > > > It is > > > > only to explain the individual and show how the senses can destroy > a > > > person > > > > by misleading him. It also shows with the knowledge of the Self, > the > > > > indriyas function but in their maryada. > > > > > > > > Do not go to the level of mind taking Atma for a ride. This will > > > overturn > > > > almost all of the Upanishadic statments. As Atma is omnipresent, > there > > > is > > > > nowhere where it is not. Therefore, wherever the mind goes, it > there > > > > already. It may seem to the mind that Atma is travelling with it, > but > > > then, > > > > that is the Maya! > > > > > > > > A musician can sing with sublime bhava upon, forgetting of > mind.Manas > > > > dissolving in Atma is complete Bhava. In astrology strength of Sun > > > gives > > > > Atma bala and moon,manobala.Due to Paraspara aashrayatwa,strength > of > > > one > > > > entity will result in the strength of the other. > > > > > > > > Sun gives atma bala not Atma. How is the bala different? The light > of > > > > consciousness when referred to in an individual is called > conditioned > > > > consciousness. It enlivens the ego thought and the mind. This is > the > > > Atma > > > > bala and not the bala of Atman that we are referring to above. The > > > Atman has > > > > nothing to take from manobala. It is free already and it is > > > omnipotent. > > > > Therefore, the Atma bala can only refer to the light or brilliance > of > > > the > > > > consciousness shining through Sun in our charts that enlivens the > > > > individual. As Sun is a graha, it binds through conditioning and > > > feeling > > > > that this consciousness is individual! This is the binding nature > of > > > the > > > > Sun. > > > > > > > > Manas never dissolves into the Atman. Manas is never there for the > > > Atman, > > > > therefore there is no dissolving back. This the limitation of any > > > language > > > > and therefore, such words are used. The thoughts are born out of a > > > want for > > > > fulfillment of the self, as one cannot accept limitation (this is > due > > > to the > > > > fact that one's nature is Satyam Jnanam Anantam). This desire > moves to > > > > fulfill itself and be complete. When such a notion is finished and > > > Brahma > > > > Vidya dawns, there is no more running. Only residual prarabdha > > > functions. > > > > > > > > When a musician sings, he dissociates his ego and finds love and > > > devotion. > > > > This is possible not only for a musician but for almost everyone > on > > > this > > > > forum. > > > > > > > > I am sorry I have to discuss the above words over the internet. > > > Upanishads > > > > should be studied with reverence and not like this. > > > > > > > > There are no multiple charts.As the > > > > brain cannot hold all the relationships a planet is having with 12 > > > > Rashis,we seperate each kind of relationship(sthoola sookshma > > > sambandha) > > > > as a seperate entity(chart). > > > > > > > > Sthoola Sookshma Sambanda I understand very well and agree. Now > when > > > we say > > > > Sookshma, what do we mean? Sookshma is the one that is free from > the > > > > sthoola. So pranamaya kosha is independent and free of sthoolamaya > > > kosha. If > > > > your heart is beating it is because pranas are functioning on > their > > > own. No > > > > sambandha is required. If in the prana chart (suppose we can > recognize > > > which > > > > one it is), if we see problems and malefics, we can find out the > root > > > of > > > > heart problem. No need for the D1 chart! (You'd probably call me > mad > > > now, > > > > but I am just showing you that the possibility exist) > > > > > > > > Rasi is the Sthoola Sarira and as "Yat Pinde Tat Brahmande" > principle > > > > applies so Rasi is also the external to Sthoola Sarira. > > > > > > > > Rashi the structure(chariot) is Sthoolashareera and one rashi is > same > > > as one > > > > bhava, though with a small conceptual difference.Rashi needs > prana(got > > > > through planets,which in turn is from soorya) and other sookshama > > > shareera > > > > entities for functioning.Think of Rashi as the chariot along with > > > > Krishna,Arjuna,Horses,reins etc,while thinking of Bhavas. > > > > > > > > I agree that Rashi and Bhava are same. The 2nd statement is a huge > > > > assumption. The Sthoola Sarira needs Prana true but can the > Sthoola > > > Sarira > > > > show the functioning of the Prana? The Prana are independent of > the > > > Sthoola > > > > Sarira so Sthoola Sarira shall show the result and Prana is the > cause. > > > > > > > > Rashi can only show the result of the Prana on Sthoola Sarira and > not > > > the > > > > cause. It will not show which Prana isn't functioning and why. And > > > what > > > > about the interrelationships between the Mind and the Pranas. The > > > Sthoola > > > > Sarira shall show nothing of it. > > > > > > > > Another exercise here: > > > > If we have Sun as the conditioned consciousness (not the Atman), > Moon > > > as the > > > > mind, Jupiter as the values and memory, Mercury as the Buddhi, can > you > > > > divide the other planets into their functions of Pranas? > > > > > > > > One planet has many roles(It is like a variable).When we see it > from a > > > > 30 degree span it relates to Kshethra.When we see it from a 3.2 > degree > > > > span,it is relating to navamshas or pranas.Think like this - When > we > > > see > > > > from a sthoola position Krishna is just a charioteer.But when we > see > > > > from a sookshma perspective,Krishna is intelligence.But it is the > same > > > > Krishna sitting in the same Chariot.So are planets.Instead of > seeing > > > > Krishna as an ''Intelligent Charioteer'' in the same Chariot ,we > are > > > > trying to bring in another chariot(another chart). In reality > there > > > are > > > > only 12 Bhavas (aadheya tattwam) and 12 Rashis(Aadhara tattwa) and > 9 > > > > planetary entities. > > > > > > > > If we take 30 degree as Kshetra, then how do 3.2 degree become the > > > prana. In > > > > one sentence you are proving the sameness of Kshetra (the > environment) > > > with > > > > the Prana (the planet itself). The Planet do not define the > Kshetra, > > > it is > > > > the Bhava that defines the Kshetra. Similarly 3.2 degree is a > Kshetra > > > for > > > > the Prana (if Navamsa shows Prana), following that logic. > > > > > > > > The Kshetra of the Prana and the Manas is not another chariot. It > is > > > evident > > > > from above. The Kshetra of the Prana and Manas prevades the > chariot > > > and is > > > > much bigger. The Upanishad is very clear about the same. > > > > > > > > For the Sthoola Sarira, there are only 12 bhavas of 30 degrees. > Can > > > you say > > > > the same for Pranas and Manas? From the view of Manas there is a > > > different > > > > world, for example, Swapna world has nothing to do with Sthoola > > > Sarira, > > > > where will it go. Where is its Kshetram? and where will Anandmaya > > > Kosha go > > > > and its Kshetram of Deep Sleep. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can never take a group of trimshamshas and analyze them as > > > > bhavas.They are just indriyas,alone.Indriyas cannot act in > > > isolation,but > > > > only in relation with manas - which is in turn is part of > > > > mind(manas,chitta,budhi,ahamkara).You have to study them in > relation > > > to > > > > other entities. > > > > Would the above involve Sthoola Sarira D1 Chart? See , this is > what I > > > have > > > > been trying to convey. > > > > > > > > > > > > Same is the case with navamshas.Prana supplies vital > > > > energies.If a planet has joined debilitation,rashi through > navamsha > > > > sambandha -it is showing lack of a particular prana support.See > the > > > > bhava for which this planet is a lord and also its karakattwa to > study > > > > results. > > > > This I agree with. As I have already mentioned here we have no > > > contention. > > > > > > > > Please try to understand the concept of Bhava.It is the unison of > Atma > > > > and Manas.Other constituents,are just facilitators.HOLISTIC > approach > > > > alone can take us towards Sakshathkaara.Hope you will give a > patient > > > > ear. > > > > Atma and Manas do not have a unison as it is explained above. > Atman is > > > > foreover free from the manas. The Bhava is not the unison between > the > > > two. > > > > The Kshetra is born out of the Nature. Here you need to understand > one > > > more > > > > thing: > > > > > > > > The mind has many desires. They require a Kshetram. The Lord > provides > > > for > > > > such a Kshetram that is best for the resultant of these desires. > (This > > > is > > > > theory of Karma as propounded by the Veda, only to understand the > > > limitation > > > > of Karma). Therefore, Kshetram is not the mind. Atman prevades > both > > > the mind > > > > and the Kshetram and is unattached to both. > > > > Again, your words carry so many concepts that I will need many > days to > > > > explain everything in order. A systematic study of Vedanta is a > must > > > for > > > > every budding astrologer and unless that is done, there are bound > to > > > be > > > > assumptions that are harmful for the growth of understanding of > > > Astrology as > > > > a subject. > > > > > > > > You will always have my patient ear and again I applaud you on a > > > healthy > > > > discussion. > > > > > > > > Please think about the same and see how there exists a possibility > of > > > the > > > > divisional charts being studied. Another suggestion is, in doing > so do > > > not > > > > worry about your earlier stance, etc. Those who think they know > how to > > > study > > > > divisional charts, may be doing it all wrong. So do not worry > about > > > them. > > > > Think in this new light. > > > > > > > > Incidently today my elder daughter, who is almost six years old, > asked > > > me > > > > -"Papa, when you are asleep, do you know that time that you are > > > asleep?". > > > > Looks like it is my day of answering the most profound questions. > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/21/06, vijayadas_pradeep vijayadas_pradeep@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bharat ji Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > There is no amount of hatred.If rosha is present,it is only for > a > > > higher > > > > > cause.With time and grace let us be able to learn and > control.Thanks > > > for > > > > > your kind words and let the almighty make our journey easier. > > > > > > > > > > >>Whether the lagna chart is showing the Sthoola Sarira or it is > the > > > > > resultant Jiva? I would love >>to hear your views. It could be > both > > > and > > > > > each would raise a volley of questions. If it is the >>resultant > > > jiva, > > > > > then, why study the divisional chart >>at all. Why, even, go to > the > > > > > Navamsha? >>If it is the Sthoola Sarira, then, why use it too > much > > > as > > > > > most can be gathered >>through the >>divisional chart? > > > > > > > > > > Good questions. > > > > > I would request you to re-read what you might have already read > > > > > regarding Bhagawan Krishna & Arjuna.It will clear all our > > > doubts.Think > > > > > of soul as jivatma in the current context,sitting inside the > > > > > chariot.What is the meaning of charioteer.It is > intelligence.krishna > > > had > > > > > taken over the control of intelligence from Arjuna(false > > > > > identification).Horses are Indriyas.The reins represent > operations > > > of > > > > > the mind.If the charioteer does not apply control,the horses may > run > > > > > wherever they want.Also if reins(mind) are left alone after an > > > initial > > > > > operation,the horses will keep on running as per the initial > > > > > instruction.Intelligence corresponds with indriyas through > > > > > manas.Intelligence can sometimes be clouded and can act based on > > > > > senses.Thus withdrawal of senses,can result in true > intelligence,if > > > it > > > > > is weak as per jataka. > > > > > > > > > > Thus chariot is sthoola shareera.but Chariot has no life or > movement > > > if > > > > > it is devoid of the above said entities -collectively called as > > > Sookshma > > > > > shareera. > > > > > > > > > > Atma has no desire.It is upto 'Us' to go back to our real Us- > > > > > ''Atma''.But Atma and Manas do have Paraspara ashrayatwa.Becasue > > > atma > > > > > joins or follows manas, wherever he is taking,as an > observer.(Think > > > of > > > > > the soul in the chariot moving along with the movement of > chariot > > > which > > > > > is according to the direction from manas on to the > > > horses(indriyas)).A > > > > > musician can sing with sublime bhava upon, forgetting of > mind.Manas > > > > > dissolving in Atma is complete Bhava. In astrology strength of > Sun > > > gives > > > > > Atma bala and moon,manobala.Due to Paraspara > aashrayatwa,strength of > > > one > > > > > entity will result in the strength of the other. > > > > > > > > > > Thus coming back to your question -There are no multiple > charts.As > > > the > > > > > brain cannot hold all the relationships a planet is having with > 12 > > > > > Rashis,we seperate each kind of relationship(sthoola sookshma > > > sambandha) > > > > > as a seperate entity(chart).Rashi the structure(chariot) is > > > > > Sthoolashareera and one rashi is same as one bhava, though with > a > > > small > > > > > conceptual difference.Rashi needs prana(got through > planets,which in > > > > > turn is from soorya) and other sookshama shareera entities for > > > > > functioning.Think of Rashi as the chariot along with > > > > > Krishna,Arjuna,Horses,reins etc,while thinking of Bhavas. > > > > > > > > > > One planet has many roles(It is like a variable).When we see it > from > > > a > > > > > 30 degree span it relates to Kshethra.When we see it from a 3.2 > > > degree > > > > > span,it is relating to navamshas or pranas.Think like this - > When we > > > see > > > > > from a sthoola position Krishna is just a charioteer.But when we > see > > > > > from a sookshma perspective,Krishna is intelligence.But it is > the > > > same > > > > > Krishna sitting in the same Chariot.So are planets.Instead of > seeing > > > > > Krishna as an ''Intelligent Charioteer'' in the same Chariot ,we > are > > > > > trying to bring in another chariot(another chart). In reality > there > > > are > > > > > only 12 Bhavas (aadheya tattwam) and 12 Rashis(Aadhara tattwa) > and 9 > > > > > planetary entities. > > > > > > > > > > You can never take a group of trimshamshas and analyze them as > > > > > bhavas.They are just indriyas,alone.Indriyas cannot act in > > > isolation,but > > > > > only in relation with manas - which is in turn is part of > > > > > mind(manas,chitta,budhi,ahamkara).You have to study them in > relation > > > to > > > > > other entities.Same is the case with navamshas.Prana supplies > vital > > > > > energies.If a planet has joined debilitation,rashi through > navamsha > > > > > sambandha -it is showing lack of a particular prana support.See > the > > > > > bhava for which this planet is a lord and also its karakattwa to > > > study > > > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > Please try to understand the concept of Bhava.It is the unison > of > > > Atma > > > > > and Manas.Other constituents,are just facilitators.HOLISTIC > approach > > > > > alone can take us towards Sakshathkaara.Hope you will give a > patient > > > > > ear.You can ofcourse still disagree,provided you have supporting > > > logic. > > > > > > > > > > Regds > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" > > > > > hinduastrology@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all I must say what I have not said so far - You can > make > > > > > people > > > > > > think and also make them study the classics before they reply > to > > > you. > > > > > I > > > > > > admire your questions and even if you are not open to > existence of > > > > > certain > > > > > > ideas (due to lack of reference in classics or logic or > reasoning > > > > > regarding > > > > > > the idea or else), your approach is worthy of praise. > > > > > > > > > > > > Before we begin this journey, a small prayer: > > > > > > > > > > > > OM SAHANA VAVATU SAHANA BHUNATTU, SAHA VIRYAM KARAWAVAHAI > > > > > > TEJASVINAVADITAMASTU MA VIDVISHAVAHAI > > > > > > OM SHANTI ! SHANTI ! SHANTI ! > > > > > > > > > > > > * Together may be be protected > > > > > > Together may we be nourished > > > > > > Together may we work with great energy > > > > > > May our journey together be brilliant and effective > > > > > > May there be no hatred between us > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > Now, back to our discussion. Let us not discuss charts here > and > > > > > understand > > > > > > the concepts: > > > > > > > > > > > > Though, 5 are the vital functions of Prana,the secondary ones > too > > > are > > > > > > part of sookshma shareera. > > > > > > I agreed with you even in my previous email. So no contention > over > > > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Jyotisha,we are studying the confluence of numerous > > > entities,for eg > > > > > > sookshma shareera,comprising of navapranas,dasha > indriyas,manas > > > and > > > > > > budhi along with sthoola shareera.Pranas alone or indriyas > alone > > > > > cannot > > > > > > make a meaning.All the entities have to act in > coordination.The > > > order > > > > > or > > > > > > samyoga krama from atma onwards is as follows.Atma joins > > > Manas,Manas > > > > > to > > > > > > Indriyas,Indriyas to Vishayas(loosely translation > > > ''subjects''),then > > > > > > vishaya sukha etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are so many concepts in this one paragraph that I will > need > > > > > couple of > > > > > > days to explain. Let me make some humble beginnings: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Action is not only that of the Sthoola Sarira. Each thought > is > > > > > likened to > > > > > > an Action. To understand this, think of a person who becomes > > > fearful > > > > > of an > > > > > > external situation. The fear is in the mind and it causes the > > > > > discrimination > > > > > > to vanish (vijnanamaya kosha) and it has effects on the > (pranamaya > > > > > kosha) > > > > > > and through it on the (annamaya kosha). But if you think, fear > is > > > only > > > > > in > > > > > > the Mind. It is the action of the mind. Confluence of numerous > > > > > entities is > > > > > > fine, but, Veda is clear about cause and effect and in that we > can > > > see > > > > > what > > > > > > is going on in the manomaya kosha, that may or may not > fructify > > > into > > > > > actual > > > > > > physical action. If there was a way, we could understand that, > > > would > > > > > it not > > > > > > be extremely helpful for any native? > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Pranas and Jnana Indriyas have a great meaning alone. > Blockages > > > to > > > > > prana > > > > > > will give rise to disease in the Sthoola Sarira. I am taking a > > > > > hypothetical > > > > > > example - let's suppose one varga defines the functioning of > apana > > > and > > > > > that > > > > > > is showing defects, would it not mean directly that Sthoola > Sarira > > > > > will such > > > > > > a disease? I think, through the varga we are going into the > roots > > > of > > > > > things. > > > > > > Remember what the Upanishad say, Prana prevade the sthoola > sarira. > > > > > This > > > > > > means they are independent of the Sthoola Sarira and secondly, > > > they > > > > > are not > > > > > > necessarily contained within the Sthoola Sarira. Now if some > is > > > deaf > > > > > and > > > > > > dumb or blind, the influence of those indriyas in not in the > > > manomaya > > > > > kosha. > > > > > > How can you say with sureity that Prana and indriyas alone do > not > > > have > > > > > any > > > > > > meaning? That there are inter dependencies is fine, but causes > lie > > > > > deep > > > > > > within through the kosas. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. All entities may not act in coordination. This is the > imbalance > > > > > through > > > > > > the manomaya kosha or pranamaya kosha. > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Atma never joins the Manas. Atma is forever free. Atman is > > > Brahman > > > > > > (Mahavakya). Then, why do we call Atman and Brahman while > > > referring it > > > > > to > > > > > > the same thing. It is because of our own limited thinking. > Atman > > > is > > > > > referred > > > > > > to the Truth while talking of the Self. While Brahman is > spoken of > > > as > > > > > the > > > > > > Truth while talking of the entirety. This does not make them > > > different > > > > > > entities. > > > > > > Atma is Omnipresent and Omniscient, and therefore, it enlivens > as > > > > > cognition > > > > > > in the mind. Mind is the collection of thoughts. It is born > out of > > > the > > > > > > thought that I am not the whole. This "I" thought is the ego. > > > > > Therefore, ego > > > > > > takes a collection of thoughts and calls it one's mind. How is > ego > > > > > evident - > > > > > > throught the light of Atma, how is mind evident - through the > > > light of > > > > > Atma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Remember the verse of the Upanishad and of Aparokshanubhuti - > Asti > > > > > bhati > > > > > > priyam rupam, naam ........ Aadhatriyam brahma rupam jagat > rupam > > > tato > > > > > dvayam > > > > > > (please do not mind my english transliteration). The > existence, > > > > > knowledge > > > > > > and bliss of anything is of the nature of Brahman, whereas, > nama > > > and > > > > > rupa is > > > > > > the nature of the jagat (world). So that mind exists, and > thought > > > > > exists - > > > > > > the existence is the quality of Atman but that we define a > thought > > > and > > > > > give > > > > > > a name to it, is born out of maya. > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, for Atma there is no mind. For the mind, it has to > > > > > disengage from > > > > > > the desiring activities to the entity that enlivens it, to > have > > > some > > > > > idea of > > > > > > Atma. (This is a very basic idea here just to intellectually > have > > > an > > > > > idea of > > > > > > Atman) > > > > > > > > > > > > Atma just goes where the manas is taking him. > > > > > > Atman prevades vijnanamaya kosha and all objects and beings. > Mind > > > > > cannot > > > > > > take it anywhere. Where mind goes, Atman is there already > (many > > > > > references > > > > > > in Upanishad). > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. Mind is the controller of Indriyas in light of the Atman. > > > Without > > > > > its > > > > > > light, indriyas would go out of control. For a moment, let us > > > bring > > > > > Dharma > > > > > > instead of Atman. Dharma is vijnanamaya kosha. If Dharma isn't > > > guiding > > > > > the > > > > > > mind, then mind cannot reign in the senses and that will > result in > > > > > > passionate actions. If one of the vargas is showing vijnana > maya > > > kosha > > > > > and > > > > > > another the manomaya kosha, their interaction will show > whether or > > > not > > > > > the > > > > > > native will follow Dharma while pursuing Artha and Kama. Is it > > > not? > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, why are we making such an assumption? Is it a new theory? > > > > > > Jyotish as a shastra is subservient to Vedas. If Vedas have > given > > > the > > > > > > panchkoshas, there has to be its relevance in the charts. You > also > > > > > agree to > > > > > > the same and only object to seeing the koshas separately > (which is > > > > > akin to > > > > > > seeing the divisional charts separately). > > > > > > > > > > > > The underlying discussion should be held: > > > > > > Whether the lagna chart is showing the Sthoola Sarira or it is > the > > > > > resultant > > > > > > Jiva? I would love to hear your views. It could be both and > each > > > would > > > > > raise > > > > > > a volley of questions. If it is the resultant jiva, then, why > > > study > > > > > the > > > > > > divisional chart at all. Why, even, go to the Navamsha? If it > is > > > the > > > > > Sthoola > > > > > > Sarira, then, why use it too much as most can be gathered > through > > > the > > > > > > divisional chart? > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind as you have said has many functions - > Budhi,Ahamkara,Chitta > > > and > > > > > > Manas.Manas is very important as it has a big role in > directing > > > our > > > > > > indriyas.But as chitta,is past impressions stored,it can act > with > > > > > > guidance from Budhi (discriminator),to give proper signals to > the > > > > > > manas.For the same reason it is said,Guru aspecting 5th lord > is > > > Budhi > > > > > > Madhurya(Dr.B.V.Raman 300 imp cominations).5th lords > disposition > > > from > > > > > > Brihaspati is also important - It shows whether the > instructions > > > from > > > > > > Brihaspati (Jnana Sukha karaka)can be received or not.Whenever > we > > > are > > > > > > analyzing or trying to perceive,budhi interacts with chitta, > to > > > study > > > > > > based on past impressions.These are passed on to manas.Manas > > > process > > > > > > these along with impressions(ongoing) gathered through > > > > > > indriyas.Brihaspati is Jnana as well as Sukha Karaka.Budha is > > > Jnana > > > > > > Swarupa and karaka for ''Vak''.As we know control of > indriyas,or > > > > > > withdrawal is the only way, for taming the mind.But Mind is > such a > > > > > > thing, that is so difficult to control.Here Budhi & Chitta can > be > > > > > handy, > > > > > > as mentioned above.Thus we may have to gain Vairagya through > > > > > > practise,obeying to budhi. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is huge and I am already getting fatiqued. I wish you > were > > > here > > > > > with me > > > > > > discussing this, atleast I wouldn't have to type all. > Nonetheless, > > > let > > > > > me > > > > > > get started again: > > > > > > > > > > > > Budhi: discriminating, reasoning, judging faculty. Budhi > judges > > > based > > > > > on its > > > > > > understanding. The principles of Dharma should guide Buddhi. > To > > > > > discriminate > > > > > > and follow, it needs the light of Truth or the reasoning why > to > > > follow > > > > > > Dharma. The light is provided by Sun, that is why Mercury > "tries" > > > to > > > > > be > > > > > > close to Sun. This is the BudhaAditya Yoga. Jupiter is the > store > > > house > > > > > of > > > > > > intelligence and provides deep thinking on each stimuli. It, > > > > > therefore, > > > > > > represents Dharma. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Manas may or may not refer a matter to Budhi (most > reactive > > > stance > > > > > are > > > > > > manas acting alone). Budhi comes into play only if Manas lets > it. > > > Only > > > > > if > > > > > > Budhi is referred too, Dharma can come into play. Under > Gajakesari > > > > > Yoga, the > > > > > > instincts of Dharma become strong and therefore, without > referring > > > to > > > > > Budhi, > > > > > > a person is able to do Dharmic actions. As Jupiter signifies > > > Dharma, > > > > > and > > > > > > Dharma is the true way to lasting sukha, therefore it is the > Sukha > > > > > Karaka. > > > > > > > > > > > > To explain the above, we do not need the houses. The houses > will > > > > > provide the > > > > > > sthoola Sarira the Kshetra of expression. Karma has to come > from > > > the > > > > > graha. > > > > > > By not providing the adequate Kshetra, the graha is unfilled > or > > > > > > disappointed. This is what happens if you see Jupiter is > Kshetra > > > of > > > > > learning > > > > > > and intelligence - it is brilliant. In Kshetra of war and > Adharma, > > > > > it's > > > > > > expression is unfulfilled. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now the question comes - What do the signs and houses of > Vargas > > > > > provide - > > > > > > Internal Kshetram? Subtle Kshetram? Is there no possibility of > the > > > > > same? > > > > > > Now, if you understand that Prana and Manas is prevading > beyond > > > the > > > > > boundary > > > > > > of the sthoola sarira, this could mean a lot. Frankly, I have > no > > > clue > > > > > now on > > > > > > what the results would be. I require help over here and we > need to > > > > > research > > > > > > (that is why I was certain of research). Another thing, > re-search > > > > > means > > > > > > searching for something that already is, and, not for > something > > > > > altogether > > > > > > new. > > > > > > > > > > > > The sookshma shareera spans across numerous koshas.Thus it may > not > > > be > > > > > > easy to group or confine them within certain koshas as you > have > > > > > > mentioned.Eg.If Vargamshas from Kshethra to Dwadashamsha are > > > > > > Annamaya,then how do you include navamshas which are > > > > > > navapranas.Pranamaya Kosha is supposed to have pranas.But as i > am > > > not > > > > > > sure,i am refraining from making comments. > > > > > > I may be wrong. I agree and only need support that we all > research > > > > > together > > > > > > instead of totally dismissing the idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > I may be wrong or right.But i am depending on classics to > arrive > > > at > > > > > > conclusions.I do not have courage to frame theories.If you are > > > > > > certain,you may kindly explain how nava pranas taken together > can > > > > > result > > > > > > in a Bhava.My understanding is to think of, how pranas are > > > infleuncing > > > > > a > > > > > > bhava.Classical examples too demonstrate the same. > > > > > > You are free to hold your opinion and can correct me,with > classics > > > or > > > > > > logic. > > > > > > Till I discover BrahmaVidya, I will be wrong. My certainity > lies > > > in > > > > > that the > > > > > > vargas can be used separately. How to use them, I am > uncertain. My > > > > > logic and > > > > > > reasoning points to their usage. Furthermore, how the vargas > are > > > being > > > > > > analyzed in many books, I am uncertain if they are true too. > > > > > > > > > > > > I thank you for this free exchange and hope I do not get tired > > > easily. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/21/06, vijayadas_pradeep vijayadas_pradeep@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bharat ji Namaskar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the detailed explanations and Koshas. > > > > > > > Though, 5 are the vital functions of Prana,the secondary > ones > > > too > > > > > are > > > > > > > part of sookshma shareera.Dhananjaya is excepeted for the > reason > > > > > > > mentioned in the previous mail,and hence the other nine are > > > related > > > > > to > > > > > > > navamshas. > > > > > > > In Jyotisha,we are studying the confluence of numerous > > > entities,for > > > > > eg > > > > > > > sookshma shareera,comprising of navapranas,dasha > indriyas,manas > > > and > > > > > > > budhi along with sthoola shareera.Pranas alone or indriyas > alone > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > make a meaning.All the entities have to act in > coordination.The > > > > > order or > > > > > > > samyoga krama from atma onwards is as follows.Atma joins > > > Manas,Manas > > > > > to > > > > > > > Indriyas,Indriyas to Vishayas(loosely translation > > > ''subjects''),then > > > > > > > vishaya sukha etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Atma just goes where the manas is taking him.Manas directs > > > indriyas > > > > > and > > > > > > > indriyas associates with various vishayas and pleasures. > > > > > > > Mind as you have said has many functions - > Budhi,Ahamkara,Chitta > > > and > > > > > > > Manas.Manas is very important as it has a big role in > directing > > > our > > > > > > > indriyas.But as chitta,is past impressions stored,it can act > > > with > > > > > > > guidance from Budhi (discriminator),to give proper signals > to > > > the > > > > > > > manas.For the same reason it is said,Guru aspecting 5th lord > is > > > > > Budhi > > > > > > > Madhurya(Dr.B.V.Raman 300 imp cominations).5th lords > disposition > > > > > from > > > > > > > Brihaspati is also important - It shows whether the > instructions > > > > > from > > > > > > > Brihaspati (Jnana Sukha karaka)can be received or > not.Whenever > > > we > > > > > are > > > > > > > analyzing or trying to perceive,budhi interacts with chitta, > to > > > > > study > > > > > > > based on past impressions.These are passed on to manas.Manas > > > process > > > > > > > these along with impressions(ongoing) gathered through > > > > > > > indriyas.Brihaspati is Jnana as well as Sukha Karaka.Budha > is > > > Jnana > > > > > > > Swarupa and karaka for ''Vak''.As we know control of > indriyas,or > > > > > > > withdrawal is the only way, for taming the mind.But Mind is > such > > > a > > > > > > > thing, that is so difficult to control.Here Budhi & Chitta > can > > > be > > > > > handy, > > > > > > > as mentioned above.Thus we may have to gain Vairagya through > > > > > > > practise,obeying to budhi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The sookshma shareera spans across numerous koshas.Thus it > may > > > not > > > > > be > > > > > > > easy to group or confine them within certain koshas as you > have > > > > > > > mentioned.Eg.If Vargamshas from Kshethra to Dwadashamsha are > > > > > > > Annamaya,then how do you include navamshas which are > > > > > > > navapranas.Pranamaya Kosha is supposed to have pranas.But as > i > > > am > > > > > not > > > > > > > sure,i am refraining from making comments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But if you can close your eyes and think for few seconds,you > can > > > > > > > perceive what a Bhava is(Also think of Bhava in Nritta and > > > Sangeetha > > > > > - > > > > > > > The art forms are expressions arising out of internal and > > > external > > > > > > > harmony.When one forgets about mind,True Bhava manifests > with > > > Laya > > > > > or > > > > > > > flow).It is the simultaneous functioniong of numerous > > > entities.Think > > > > > of > > > > > > > the functioning of human system.A body(sthoola) > simultaneously > > > > > working > > > > > > > with prana,indriya,manas,budhi,ahamkara etc can only have a > > > > > Bhava.Prana > > > > > > > alone does not have any bhava - so is manas - it has to get > > > > > impressions > > > > > > > from indriyas or past ones from chitta.How we are able to > derive > > > > > each > > > > > > > and every amsha from individual rashis, holds the > conclusion.A > > > rashi > > > > > is > > > > > > > a sumtotal of all these.Planets are giving life,which they > in > > > turn > > > > > have > > > > > > > gained from Soorya.Purusha manifests as Prana. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I may be wrong or right.But i am depending on classics to > arrive > > > at > > > > > > > conclusions.I do not have courage to frame theories.If you > are > > > > > > > certain,you may kindly explain how nava pranas taken > together > > > can > > > > > result > > > > > > > in a Bhava.My understanding is to think of, how pranas are > > > > > infleuncing a > > > > > > > bhava.Classical examples too demonstrate the same. > > > > > > > You are free to hold your opinion and can correct me,with > > > classics > > > > > or > > > > > > > logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regds > > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu > Astrology" > > > > > > > hinduastrology@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is no use giving simple explanations on the forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Taittirya Upanishad Chapter XIII: Than that, verily -than > this > > > one > > > > > > > formed of > > > > > > > > Prana -there is another self within formed of Manas. By > Him > > > this > > > > > one > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > filled. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When we talk of Jnana indriyas, we talk of two things- > organs > > > of > > > > > > > perception > > > > > > > > and their stimuli being registered in the mind. As the > > > indriyas by > > > > > > > itself > > > > > > > > cannot bring Jnana or cognition, it is the Manomaya Kosha > or > > > the > > > > > Mind > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > brings it. The word Jnana indriyas therefore refers to > > > perception. > > > > > To > > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > perception rests with the Mind is okay to say that senses > rest > > > > > with > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > mind, will be incorrect. So Jnana indriyas is another > function > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > and a different one from its other functions. It should > not be > > > > > taken > > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > separate organ or a place or else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The mano maya kosha is the first kosha in the order from > gross > > > to > > > > > > > subtle to > > > > > > > > be show cognition as it has more of Sattva Guna as > compared to > > > > > > > Pranamaya > > > > > > > > kosha which is mostly Rajas and Anamayakosha that is > mostly > > > Tamas. > > > > > So > > > > > > > here > > > > > > > > in lies the instrument of karana sakti, and the bhoga > sakti. > > > As of > > > > > > > product > > > > > > > > of Jnana sakti, it has various vrittis. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Desire, representation, doubt, faith, want of faith, want > of > > > > > > > firmness, > > > > > > > > shame, reflection, fear - all in mind" - Brihadaryanka > > > Upanishad > > > > > 1-5-3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So among many functions Jnana Indriyas is the cognition of > > > > > perception. > > > > > > > But > > > > > > > > senses shall remain in the sthoola sarira. Pranas that > > > prevades > > > > > the > > > > > > > anamaya > > > > > > > > kosha or the sthoola sarira, shall be the sthana of Karma > > > > > Indriyas, > > > > > > > meaning > > > > > > > > the enabling the function of action. It is the carrier of > > > Manomaya > > > > > > > kosha's > > > > > > > > directives to the limbs and organs of actions of the body. > > > Again > > > > > it is > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > of the functions and not a separate place, or identity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As Mano-maya kosha prevades the pranamaya kosha, the > function > > > of > > > > > > > perception > > > > > > > > shall prevade the pranamaya kosha but the senses itself > shall > > > not > > > > > > > prevade > > > > > > > > the pranamaya kosha. As Pranamaya does not have distinct > > > parts, > > > > > just > > > > > > > as in > > > > > > > > manomaya kosha, it is a unity present in every part of the > > > body > > > > > > > performing > > > > > > > > its functions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, I see you mention 10 pranas. It is correct, though > > > generally > > > > > 5 > > > > > > > > prominent ones are used and in the Upanishad these five > are > > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > (Maitreya Up. 2-6) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Trimshamshas are pancha jnanendriyas.Sun and Moon do not > have > > > any > > > > > > > > ownership here.When we think it is clear. > > > > > > > > It is the indriyas through which we are drawing > impressions > > > from > > > > > the > > > > > > > > external and hence the cause for evils. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we see the same, then, what I had suggested to you and > the > > > > > forum, > > > > > > > earlier > > > > > > > > could be true. D1-D12 - Anamaya kosha D13-D24 Pranamaya > Kosha, > > > > > D25-D36 > > > > > > > > (where in D30 lies) Manomaya Kosha. (This was followed by > chat > > > > > with > > > > > > > Sri Hari > > > > > > > > and Sri Parthasarathy too) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could then, divisional charts (D25-D36) relate to the > > > different > > > > > > > functions of > > > > > > > > the mind? I am certain of two things: > > > > > > > > 1. They can be used separately in view of the above- how > we > > > need > > > > > to > > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > out. Possible clues could be checking the cognition of > > > different > > > > > > > stimuli, > > > > > > > > what desires move about, in what the person's faith lies, > etc. > > > > > After > > > > > > > all, > > > > > > > > the causes of bodily actions lie in these charts, there is > > > much > > > > > more > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. More research is needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/19/06, vijayadas_pradeep vijayadas_pradeep@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Anilkumar ji,Arjun ji ,Bharatji Namaskaar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EkaVimshopi(21) constituents of Sookshma shareera are > > > composed > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > dwadasha(12) Budhindriyaadis and navapranas. > > > > > > > > > Here 12,Budhi-indriyaadis are Budhi,Manas and 10 > Indriyas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arjun ji as you may be aware,Organs are different from > > > indriyas. > > > > > > > > > 1)Jnanendriyas -smell,taste,see,touch,hear. > > > > > > > > > 2)Karmendriyas -excrete,reproduce,move,grasp,speak. > > > > > > > > > Thus nose,ear,legs etc are the organs corresponding to > the > > > above > > > > > 10 > > > > > > > > > indriyas. > > > > > > > > > Nava Pranas are - > > > > > > > > > > Pranan,Apanan,Samanan,Vyanan,Udanan,Nagam,Koormam,Krikalam & > > > > > > > > > Devadattam.Tenth Prana Dhananjaya,is for dead bodies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rashi is sthoola shareera ,comprising of Organs.But > organs > > > are > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > structures if there is no life.Thus Purusha manifests as > > > Prana. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Trimshamshas are pancha jnanendriyas.Sun and Moon do not > > > have > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > ownership here.When we think it is clear. > > > > > > > > > It is the indriyas through which we are drawing > impressions > > > from > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > external and hence the cause for evils. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can indriyas alone be considered as a Bhava?No.Bhava is > the > > > > > > > confluence > > > > > > > > > of many.We should think how it is possible to study all > > > aspects > > > > > > > > > pertaining to a jataka from ''Rashi Chakra''. > > > > > > > > > This is possible as, one rashi becomes a bhava,when it > has a > > > > > lord > > > > > > > w.r > > > > > > > > > to lagna.For properly understanding the functioning of > each > > > > > Bhava,we > > > > > > > > > have to see the subtle infleunces on bhava nathas.Each > > > subtle > > > > > > > > > infleunce will have a role,for eg,navamsha infleunce is > > > > > > > corresponding > > > > > > > > > to kalathra,bhagya etc. > > > > > > > > > Thus sookshma shareera acts in sync with corresponding > > > sthoola > > > > > > > > > shareera organs.Trying to study them in isolation or > > > considering > > > > > > > Bhava > > > > > > > > > there is beyond my understanding.Others who have > understood > > > may > > > > > > > > > explain for better comprehension.We should think why we > do > > > not > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > shlokas to support bhavas in vargamsha groupings.Why is > > > > > Vargottama > > > > > > > > > important?Any planet is a Bhavanatha or karaka.When he > is > > > having > > > > > > > > > similar subtle and gross infleuences,shubha results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When time permits ,i can share some more from the works > of > > > > > > > > > Mahamunis,if it is helpful for you.Mind - and its > > > > > > > > > constituents,improtance of chitta(past impressions > > > and),Budhi, > > > > > > > > > Ahamkara etc.Chitta is also 5th house and PoorvaPunya. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, > "panditarjun2004" > > > > > > > > > panditarjun2004@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > namaste bharat ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i am looking at how to read from the signs, houses or > > > planets > > > > > on > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > > kinds of indriyas (not body organs). we all learnt how > > > bodily > > > > > > > parts > > > > > > > > > > are read from various houses starting from head from > langa > > > to > > > > > feet > > > > > > > > > > in the 12th. please share on reading of these indriyas > > > > > (sensory > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > non-sensory) from a sign/house/planet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the two nadis ida and pingala are related to sun and > moon. > > > > > > > > > > similarly please share how the five vayus are read in > > > > > astrology. > > > > > > > i > > > > > > > > > > understand that the seven chakras (mooladhara, > > > svadhisthana, > > > > > > > > > > manipuraka, anahata, vishuddha, ajna and sahasrara) > can > > > also > > > > > be > > > > > > > read > > > > > > > > > > from a chart and have their correlation with signs, > houses > > > and > > > > > > > > > > planets. would be grateful if any member share > information > > > on > > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes and regards > > > > > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu > > > > > Astrology" > > > > > > > > > > <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaskaar Sri Arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Jnanaindriyas are the five senses of perception. > The > > > > > five > > > > > > > > > > karma indriyas > > > > > > > > > > > are organs of speech, hands, legs, organ of > procreation, > > > and > > > > > > > organ > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > excretion. The pranamaya kosha (prana, apana, udana, > > > vyana > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > samana) > > > > > > > > > > > provide the forces that make the indriyas function. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/18/06, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear anil ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep:Thus Rashis are 12 and they constitue 12 > > > organs > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > well as > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12 bhavas.Sookshma shareera consists of > navapranas > > > and > > > > > 12 > > > > > > > > > > indiryas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anil:There are 5 Jnyanendriyas and 5 > Karmendriyas so > > > 10 > > > > > > > only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please give supporting verses. Organs and > Indriyas > > > are > > > > > > > > > > different. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > without knowing whether the indriyas are twelve or > > > ten, i > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > request > > > > > > > > > > > > you to give their correlation to signs or houses > in > > > > > seriatim > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > me to > > > > > > > > > > > > learn more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yes you are right in saying that organs are > different > > > from > > > > > > > > > > indriyas and > > > > > > > > > > > > it is organs which we consider for medical > astrology. > > > if > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > share > > > > > > > > > > > > your knowledge on indriyas it would help me > understand > > > > > better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > > > > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Archives: > vedic astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > > > > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXB > > > > > > > > > > NeEg> Vedic > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astro > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logy+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKI > > > > > > > > > > dnHA> Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > horoscope</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI- > > > > > > > > > > EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > software</gads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=As > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > trology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt > > > > > > > > > > 6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic- > > > > > > > > > > > astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - To from this group, send an email > to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > ?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Your use of is subject to the > > > > Terms > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: > > > > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > > > > > > > vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c\ </gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > > > > > > > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4\ > \ > > > \ > > > > > \ > > > > > > > &s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo\ </gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > \</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > > > > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > gy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software\ > \ > > > \ > > > > > \ > > > > > > > &c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast\ </gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > > > > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+soft\ > \ > > > \ > > > > > \ > > > > > > > ware&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro\ </gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > > > > > > > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+softwa\ > \ > > > \ > > > > > \ > > > > > > > re&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group > > > > > > > > "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology-@@y\ > > > > > > > ahoogroups.com?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > Terms > > > of > > > > > > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: > > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > > > > > vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology > > > > > > > > > chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c\ </gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+c%5C> > > > > > > > > > hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4\ > \ > > > \ > > > > > &s=91&.sig=UoktiPHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo\ </gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > \</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrolo%5C> > > > > > > > > > gy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software\ > \ > > > \ > > > > > &c=4&s=91&.sig=qNtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast\ </gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Ast%5C> > > > > > > > > > rology+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+soft\ > \ > > > \ > > > > > ware&c=4&s=91&.sig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro\ </gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > > > > \</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astro%5C> > > > > > > > > > logy+chart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+softwa\ > \ > > > \ > > > > > re&c=4&s=91&.sig=Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Visit your group > > > > > "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > > > > > > > on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology-@@y\ > > > > > ahoogroups.com?subject=Un> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Your use of Gr > ... > > [Message clipped] ______________________ ______________________ Message: 22 Thu, 23 Feb 2006 07:34:36 -0000 "dakshinastrologer" <dakshinastrologer Re: Sun in Aris in Natal chart - Let us predict - An excersise Dear Richji: This was a good beginning.....I will raise certain queries just to take the discussion to a deeper level and for the learners in this group to learn the techniques of analysis..... You have written, that the person will have ego .......Why you are saying so? Sun is the karaka for Aatma (the blemishless soul). When Sun is exalted in the horoscope, how do you say that a person will be egoistic.....The concept of Atman is above ego is it not? An egoistic person cannot realize the atman.....Kindly try to analyze on these pointers.....I have not tried to rebut your point.....I am raising some queries so that you can focus on these aspects to dig deeper! Exalted Sun, naturally gives a royal touch to the personality....yes, the person will live or rather at least want to live like a king. His/ her father can be in Government......Why? I am not denying or supporting this.....Kindly try to give a logical reason using the karakatwaas of the planet! His father will have good status in life or will have some peaks of principles or notions.....yes. Exalted Sun as the significator of father can give these results. His confidence levels will be high.....Yes, due to excessive soul force and will power. Kindly continue this, and explore further using more karakatwaas. Use the kala purasha model as Shri. Shreenadh has written in his mail..... Aries signified head of the Kaala purusha.... Use the elemental qualities.....Aries is a fire sign.....Sun is a fiery planet....what does this combination indicate? Aries is a sign that comes under the Dharma classification of signs (signs are classified as Dharma, artha, kaama, and Moksha in regular order starting from Aries). What do we deduce from this? Aries is the sign of Mars.....Sun is a yogakaraka for Mars.....What do we deduce from this? I wanted to observe how the exercise proceeds by lurking in the background....but, just as shri. Shreenadh pointed out, we have got just one reply in this regard...that is why, I decided to step in to pep up matters.....I hope that things may heat up from now for the benefit of every one here. Blessed be. Pandit. R.DAKSHINAMOORTHI. vedic astrology, Richa Gupta <astro_destination wrote: > > Dear sir, > > your exercise is very effective for the learners like us. I can say that the person will hv ego, he want to live like a king. He will think his/her personality above all. His/her father can be in Gov.His father will hv good status of life or will hv some peaks of principals/notions. He will hv good strength of body and will show himself/herself a bright star. His confidence level will be high. > Thanks and regards > Richa Gupta > > Sreenadh <sreelid wrote: > Dear All, > You can consider this as another step of the "Let us predict (with > Lagna alone)" exercise we have done earlier. > Think that the only thing we know about a horoscope is that, Sun is > placed in Aries. What are the things we can predict about the native > based on this info alone? > Let us play. Let us try to make it a worthy exercise. If anyone is > interested in the same, I would joyously participate in this > exercise, as a team mate. > I invite all the knowledgeable dear friends like Pradeep, RK Dash, > Guruji Dakshnamoorthi, Pandit ji, Praveen, Anil ji, Nemani ji, and > all the other true researchers to participate in this exercise. Let > us bring out the possibilities. > If you felt that the "Let us predict with Lagna alone" was a worthy > exercise, then let us joyously participate in this exercise as well, > and let us enjoy the beauty of astrology. > Points to remember: > ------------------- > 1) The only thing we know about the horoscope is that Su is placed > in Aries. > 2) Only the Sign and Planet would be considered in prediction. > 3) Karakathwas of the Sign, and Karakathwas of Planet can be > extensively used. (i.e. The Meterials-Places-Events-Qualities- Persons- > Organs-Diseases-Emotions-Gods etc that Aries and Sun signify becomes > important and can be extensively used in prediction). > 4)The concepts such as Kalapurusha, Yugadi, Charadi, Bhoothadi etc > classification of signs can be used. > 5) Remember that we are trying to explore the Natal chart and NOT > the presna or Muhoortha chart. > 6) Any info that is outside these pre-set boundaries should not be > used. > Hope that at least some would find this exercise beneficial. I am > eagerly waiting for the response from all directions. > Love, > Sreenadh > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- (AT) (DOT) com > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > Astrology chart Vedic astrology Astrology horoscope Astrology software > > > > > > Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web. > > > vedic astrology > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > Om Namah Shivay > > Richa Gupta > > > > > Jiyo cricket on India cricket > Messenger Mobile Stay in touch with your buddies all the time. > > > ______________________ ______________________ ------ ------ _ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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