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Dear all,

 

I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking

sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not

doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a

consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost if

such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of the

standard text books, are posed.

 

Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont know

the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and also,

asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information.

 

That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people

want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people,beyond

the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean that

those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but in

case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and money on

knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so.

 

Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems on

one forum and the learned members will put in their

knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions.

 

It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies suggested

therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same

question is posed in other forums.

 

Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning

the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a

professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to do

so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The

answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of

time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on

his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources on

this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the impression

we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply their

problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on

professional services in astrology is waste of money?

 

Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot.

 

Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do some

home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am

sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to learn

something.

 

And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies,

please remember that these are free forums but people who are

bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money, energy

and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You

could not find answers else where.

 

Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit.

 

Kishore patnaik

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Dear Kishore,

I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough hardwork in

learning astrology and like things served on a platter. Howsoever hard

we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try to

not only expand its base but also render it the scientific

respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for this

science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who writes

for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one and

all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his column

of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:-

" ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of Abhishek and

Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well educated

people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He assured

them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure, he

added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy. Not

one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition (10

million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, Indira

Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of disasters

unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers did was

to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is totally

false."

And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that went

wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi, the

scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so-called

science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls."

Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality. Astrologers

have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of science so

far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social life. I

often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's service

by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the phase of

clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning.

So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological jargons or

write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists' fraternity

but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only when

we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and correct

predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible?"

Pran Razdan

 

 

 

vedic astrology, "kishore mohan"

<kishorepatnaik09 wrote:

>

> Dear all,

>

> I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking

> sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not

> doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a

> consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost if

> such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of the

> standard text books, are posed.

>

> Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont know

> the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and also,

> asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information.

>

> That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people

> want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people,beyond

> the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean that

> those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but in

> case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and money on

> knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so.

>

> Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems on

> one forum and the learned members will put in their

> knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions.

>

> It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies suggested

> therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same

> question is posed in other forums.

>

> Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning

> the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a

> professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to do

> so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The

> answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of

> time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on

> his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources on

> this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the impression

> we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply their

> problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on

> professional services in astrology is waste of money?

>

> Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot.

>

> Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do some

> home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am

> sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to learn

> something.

>

> And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies,

> please remember that these are free forums but people who are

> bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money, energy

> and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You

> could not find answers else where.

>

> Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit.

>

> Kishore patnaik

>

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Dear Kishore ji,

You said:

> Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning

> the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a

> professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to

do

> so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The

> answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of

> time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on

> his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources

> on this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the

> impression we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously

> to reply their problems that the astrology is just time pass and

> spedning on professional services in astrology is waste of money?

> Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot.

 

I agree with your opinions completely. It is due to such thoughts

that I avoid answering to most of the queries posted on the forum, and

concentrate more on real astrological discussions, encouraging the

learning and teaching experience, and sharing of knowledge, rather

than trying to solve somebody's problem, and wasting time and energy

on it, who themselves may at times will not value it or even may not

bother to read it, and may searching and asking the same questions to

every astrologer they met, and may not even have the knowledge and

ability to assess the capability of the astrologer they are

approaching!!! Why waste time on such people? It is not good. That is

why it is better to concentrate on knowledge sharing in such forums :)

Then at least we could have an idea from later responses, that who is

resonating to your thoughts and who not.

Thanks for the good mail.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

 

vedic astrology, "kishore mohan"

<kishorepatnaik09 wrote:

>

> Dear all,

>

> I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking

> sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not

> doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a

> consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost if

> such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of the

> standard text books, are posed.

>

> Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont know

> the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and

also,

> asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information.

>

> That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people

> want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people,

beyond

> the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean

that

> those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but in

> case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and money

on

> knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so.

>

> Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems on

> one forum and the learned members will put in their

> knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions.

>

> It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies suggested

> therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same

> question is posed in other forums.

>

> Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning

> the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a

> professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to

do

> so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The

> answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of

> time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on

> his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources

on

> this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the impression

> we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply

their

> problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on

> professional services in astrology is waste of money?

>

> Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot.

>

> Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do some

> home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am

> sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to

learn

> something.

>

> And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies,

> please remember that these are free forums but people who are

> bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money,

energy

> and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You

> could not find answers else where.

>

> Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit.

>

> Kishore patnaik

>

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Dear Pran Razdan ji,

I appreciate your concern and sincerity. I agree to most of your

observations. But don't agree to the following statement:

> So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological

> jargons or write fanciful books for the use of a limited

> astrologists' fraternity but to take astrology to masses.

Due to the simple reason that, the ancient and trustworthy system of

astrology is in a demolished state at present, and it needs a lot of

homework and reconstruction effort, before taking it to the masses in

a convincing manner.

Re-organizing of available knowledge should be done first, much

research is needed in several areas ( especially in areas like

circadian rhythm, astrological + biological co-relation etc),

development of tools (computer programs for analyzing different

theories and concept) should be done, and taking the systematic

approach of science, this subject and its concepts should be explored.

It is a lot of work. First step first is approach of a true

researcher. And I would say that this homework is the first step. i.e.

Re-organizing of available knowledge.

Why I am answering to your question like this. Is it that the so

called astrologer should do research only though out his life and

shouldn't answer to the questions of qurents?!

No. It is not so.

You were pointing to Analytically/Scientifically exploring the

trustworthiness of astrology and taking it to the masses. But what is

happening now is the holistic use of the available knowledge, by

taking use of the limited knowledge and the erroneous system available

today, without not even bothering to explore/re-organize even the

available knowledge. Those who are are able to accumulate more data/

slokas etc and use them in a holistic manner makes good predictions,

and those not bad predictions - but all of them are imperfect, since

they don't have the systematic understanding of the subject, haven't

been standardized yet, it is not analytically and scientifically

tested and verified yet after developing and using the testing tools.

If you are a researcher then start from the first step mentioned

above. If you are an astrologer do what all those astrologers and so

called astrologers are doing. If you are a scientist/programmer etc

try to develop the tools necessary to analytical/scientific research.

But it any case considering "taking it to the masses" it is not the

proper time, though the astrologers do it in an imperfect manner now.

Let them continue doing it. But a truly able and sincere coming in

contact with astrology should try to identify his area of work and

contribute to it

1) As one who re-organizes the knowledge (Books etc)

2) As an explorer of the theoretical/practical foundation of the

knowledge accumulated by the people in category -1

3) As Tool Developer for testing of hypotheses for the use of

people in category-2

4) As one who advertise/popularize the knowledge of the above 3

(marketing executives/businessmen)

5) As an astrologer who imperfectly uses the current system, for–

a. For livelihood

b. To help people, using the current imperfect knowledge.

c. Just out of curiosity in knowledge acquiring and experimenting

Of these 5 Categories, the 5th category is more in number, though the

first 3 do the real work, and the 4th does the duty of a marketing

executive or PRO. The 5th category usually composed of people with

imperfect knowledge, whose approach is neither scientific/analytical

nor holistic with systematic understanding of the theoretical basis.

In light of the above view, I find the statement:

"And this will be possible only when we try to satisfy a larger

number of querists with simple and correct predictions.", as an

aimless wandering arrow, without power. Of course it is my opinion,

and many a people may have a different opinion.

You said:

>But then comes the question back "Is this possible?"

It doesn't comes back and gone no where, since the base of that

question is re-constructed, and the view towards the issue is altered

and made systematic. Better not waste our energy on the masses and

concentrate of constructive things for the sake of knowledge (let it

be astrology or anything else) and follow the systematic step by step

process, so as to attain great goals. Interact with masses to an

extend, but don't allow that noise to come inside, and disturb the

tranquility of inner world, and the systematic efforts. Hopes that I

may able to covey this view/feeling at least to some, who had the

experience of the same.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

 

vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan

wrote:

>

> Dear Kishore,

> I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough hardwork

in

> learning astrology and like things served on a platter. Howsoever

hard

> we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try to

> not only expand its base but also render it the scientific

> respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for this

> science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who

writes

> for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one and

> all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his

column

> of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:-

> " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of Abhishek

and

> Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well educated

> people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He

assured

> them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure, he

> added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy. Not

> one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition (10

> million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, Indira

> Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of

disasters

> unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers did

was

> to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is totally

> false."

> And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that

went

> wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi, the

> scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so-called

> science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls."

> Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality. Astrologers

> have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of science

so

> far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social life.

I

> often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's service

> by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the phase

of

> clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning.

> So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological jargons

or

> write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists'

fraternity

> but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only when

> we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and

correct

> predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible?"

> Pran Razdan

>

>

>

> vedic astrology, "kishore mohan"

> <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear all,

> >

> > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking

> > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not

> > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a

> > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost

if

> > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of

the

> > standard text books, are posed.

> >

> > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont

know

> > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and

also,

> > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information.

> >

> > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people

> > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people,

beyond

> > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean

that

> > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but

in

> > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and money

on

> > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so.

> >

> > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems

on

> > one forum and the learned members will put in their

> > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions.

> >

> > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies

suggested

> > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same

> > question is posed in other forums.

> >

> > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning

> > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a

> > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to

do

> > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things.

The

> > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of

> > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy

on

> > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources

on

> > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the

impression

> > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply

their

> > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on

> > professional services in astrology is waste of money?

> >

> > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot.

> >

> > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do

some

> > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am

> > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to

learn

> > something.

> >

> > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies,

> > please remember that these are free forums but people who are

> > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money,

energy

> > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You

> > could not find answers else where.

> >

> > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit.

> >

> > Kishore patnaik

> >

>

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iam working out on a solution for similar thing, iam creating a new portal

dedicated to the astrologer community,

 

The forum is divided into categories, 1. discussions, advice, articles,

resources etc, all the categories are subdivided into sub categories.

 

it will ease all the process, anyone can create a discussion topic and can

continue, it.

 

if someone is seeking advice he can create a topic in the advice corner.

 

hence we can use this forum as an online reference.

 

this is completely an open and free portal with no ownerships.

 

Astrologers can also create and update their profile, they will get their

own website and promotional stuff all free.

 

The portal will be promoted globally through all the searchengines etc, Iam

sure it will generate heavy traffic in the coming days.

 

The development stage is going to complete, i want volunteers to support it.

 

please mail me if anybody is interested.

 

thanks

 

gautam rampal

 

 

On 2/28/06, Sreenadh <sreelid wrote:

>

> Dear Kishore ji,

> You said:

> > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning

> > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a

> > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to

> do

> > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The

> > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of

> > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on

> > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources

> > on this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the

> > impression we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously

> > to reply their problems that the astrology is just time pass and

> > spedning on professional services in astrology is waste of money?

> > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot.

>

> I agree with your opinions completely. It is due to such thoughts

> that I avoid answering to most of the queries posted on the forum, and

> concentrate more on real astrological discussions, encouraging the

> learning and teaching experience, and sharing of knowledge, rather

> than trying to solve somebody's problem, and wasting time and energy

> on it, who themselves may at times will not value it or even may not

> bother to read it, and may searching and asking the same questions to

> every astrologer they met, and may not even have the knowledge and

> ability to assess the capability of the astrologer they are

> approaching!!! Why waste time on such people? It is not good. That is

> why it is better to concentrate on knowledge sharing in such forums :)

> Then at least we could have an idea from later responses, that who is

> resonating to your thoughts and who not.

> Thanks for the good mail.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

>

> vedic astrology, "kishore mohan"

> <kishorepatnaik09 wrote:

> >

> > Dear all,

> >

> > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking

> > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not

> > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a

> > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost if

> > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of the

> > standard text books, are posed.

> >

> > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont know

> > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and

> also,

> > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information.

> >

> > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people

> > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people,

> beyond

> > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean

> that

> > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but in

> > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and money

> on

> > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so.

> >

> > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems on

> > one forum and the learned members will put in their

> > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions.

> >

> > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies suggested

> > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same

> > question is posed in other forums.

> >

> > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning

> > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a

> > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to

> do

> > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The

> > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of

> > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on

> > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources

> on

> > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the impression

> > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply

> their

> > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on

> > professional services in astrology is waste of money?

> >

> > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot.

> >

> > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do some

> > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am

> > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to

> learn

> > something.

> >

> > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies,

> > please remember that these are free forums but people who are

> > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money,

> energy

> > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You

> > could not find answers else where.

> >

> > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit.

> >

> > Kishore patnaik

> >

 

>

>

>

>

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Astrology

chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=\

Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Uokti\

PHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic

>

astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart\

&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=q\

NtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology

>

horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+c\

hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.s\

ig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology

>

software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+cha\

rt&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig\

=Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw>

> ------------------------------

>

>

>

> - Visit your group

"vedic astrology<vedic astrology>"

> on the web.

>

> -

>

vedic astrology<vedic astrology-@gro\

ups.com?subject=Un>

>

> - Terms of

> Service <>.

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

 

 

 

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--

I absolutely agree with Sri Razdan.

If a groupie is asking questions , it is in the interest of

astrology that we , if we can, gude him / her.

To deride their efforts is not good for the subject.

- In vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan

wrote:

>

> Dear Kishore,

> I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough

hardwork in

> learning astrology and like things served on a platter. Howsoever

hard

> we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try to

> not only expand its base but also render it the scientific

> respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for this

> science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who

writes

> for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one and

> all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his

column

> of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:-

> " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of Abhishek

and

> Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well educated

> people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He

assured

> them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure, he

> added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy. Not

> one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition (10

> million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, Indira

> Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of

disasters

> unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers did

was

> to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is

totally

> false."

> And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that

went

> wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi, the

> scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so-called

> science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls."

> Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality. Astrologers

> have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of

science so

> far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social

life. I

> often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's

service

> by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the

phase of

> clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning.

> So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological jargons

or

> write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists'

fraternity

> but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only

when

> we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and

correct

> predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible?"

> Pran Razdan

>

>

>

> vedic astrology, "kishore mohan"

> <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear all,

> >

> > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking

> > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not

> > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a

> > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be

lost if

> > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of

the

> > standard text books, are posed.

> >

> > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont

know

> > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and

also,

> > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information.

> >

> > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that

people

> > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help

people,beyond

> > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean

that

> > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers

but in

> > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and

money on

> > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so.

> >

> > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their

problems on

> > one forum and the learned members will put in their

> > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such

questions.

> >

> > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies

suggested

> > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same

> > question is posed in other forums.

> >

> > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning

> > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a

> > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused

to do

> > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things.

The

> > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of

> > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy

on

> > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such

resources on

> > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the

impression

> > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply

their

> > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on

> > professional services in astrology is waste of money?

> >

> > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a

lot.

> >

> > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do

some

> > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am

> > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to

learn

> > something.

> >

> > And for those who are interested in posing questions for

remedies,

> > please remember that these are free forums but people who are

> > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money,

energy

> > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You

> > could not find answers else where.

> >

> > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit.

> >

> > Kishore patnaik

> >

>

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Dear Sreenadh,

I read your post with interest. The crux of your message is that the

astrological knowledge is presently chaotic and needs "reorganisation"

and more research before it can be used for the benefit of the masses

as a prdictive tool.Well, I am not sure if this five thousand years

old knowledge can be called unstandardised or unorganised and

premature to be of any benefit to the people as yet.And do we have

anybody of the standing of the authors of this knowledge to give it a

systematic shape that you aspire.

The fact of the matter is that we donot have anybody who can use this

knowledge as a package and present it to the people as a simple

predictive tool. We need a man of Guru Ramdev's level and standing who

packaged Yoga and presented it to the common man in India.

>From a closer reading of your mail, I think this is precisely what you

too have in your mind but you seem to be soft on so called researchers.

Yes, the commercial astrologers are too many. With a little bit of

knowledge and reading a few books, they go into the market for the

sake of money.

Regards,

Pran Razdan

 

vedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid wrote:

> Dear Pran Razdan ji,

> I appreciate your concern and sincerity. I agree to most of your

> observations. But don't agree to the following statement:

> > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological

> > jargons or write fanciful books for the use of a limited

> > astrologists' fraternity but to take astrology to masses.

> Due to the simple reason that, the ancient and trustworthy system of

> astrology is in a demolished state at present, and it needs a lot of

> homework and reconstruction effort, before taking it to the masses in

> a convincing manner.

> Re-organizing of available knowledge should be done first, much

> research is needed in several areas ( especially in areas like

> circadian rhythm, astrological + biological co-relation etc),

> development of tools (computer programs for analyzing different

> theories and concept) should be done, and taking the systematic

> approach of science, this subject and its concepts should be explored.

> It is a lot of work. First step first is approach of a true

> researcher. And I would say that this homework is the first step. i.e.

> Re-organizing of available knowledge.

> Why I am answering to your question like this. Is it that the so

> called astrologer should do research only though out his life and

> shouldn't answer to the questions of qurents?!

> No. It is not so.

> You were pointing to Analytically/Scientifically exploring the

> trustworthiness of astrology and taking it to the masses. But what is

> happening now is the holistic use of the available knowledge, by

> taking use of the limited knowledge and the erroneous system available

> today, without not even bothering to explore/re-organize even the

> available knowledge. Those who are are able to accumulate more data/

> slokas etc and use them in a holistic manner makes good predictions,

> and those not bad predictions - but all of them are imperfect, since

> they don't have the systematic understanding of the subject, haven't

> been standardized yet, it is not analytically and scientifically

> tested and verified yet after developing and using the testing tools.

> If you are a researcher then start from the first step mentioned

> above. If you are an astrologer do what all those astrologers and so

> called astrologers are doing. If you are a scientist/programmer etc

> try to develop the tools necessary to analytical/scientific research.

> But it any case considering "taking it to the masses" it is not the

> proper time, though the astrologers do it in an imperfect manner now.

> Let them continue doing it. But a truly able and sincere coming in

> contact with astrology should try to identify his area of work and

> contribute to it

> 1) As one who re-organizes the knowledge (Books etc)

> 2) As an explorer of the theoretical/practical foundation of the

> knowledge accumulated by the people in category -1

> 3) As Tool Developer for testing of hypotheses for the use of

> people in category-2

> 4) As one who advertise/popularize the knowledge of the above 3

> (marketing executives/businessmen)

> 5) As an astrologer who imperfectly uses the current system, for�

> a. For livelihood

> b. To help people, using the current imperfect knowledge.

> c. Just out of curiosity in knowledge acquiring and experimenting

> Of these 5 Categories, the 5th category is more in number, though the

> first 3 do the real work, and the 4th does the duty of a marketing

> executive or PRO. The 5th category usually composed of people with

> imperfect knowledge, whose approach is neither scientific/analytical

> nor holistic with systematic understanding of the theoretical basis.

> In light of the above view, I find the statement:

> "And this will be possible only when we try to satisfy a larger

> number of querists with simple and correct predictions.", as an

> aimless wandering arrow, without power. Of course it is my opinion,

> and many a people may have a different opinion.

> You said:

> >But then comes the question back "Is this possible?"

> It doesn't comes back and gone no where, since the base of that

> question is re-constructed, and the view towards the issue is altered

> and made systematic. Better not waste our energy on the masses and

> concentrate of constructive things for the sake of knowledge (let it

> be astrology or anything else) and follow the systematic step by step

> process, so as to attain great goals. Interact with masses to an

> extend, but don't allow that noise to come inside, and disturb the

> tranquility of inner world, and the systematic efforts. Hopes that I

> may able to covey this view/feeling at least to some, who had the

> experience of the same.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

>

> vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Kishore,

> > I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough hardwork

> in

> > learning astrology and like things served on a platter. Howsoever

> hard

> > we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try to

> > not only expand its base but also render it the scientific

> > respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for this

> > science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who

> writes

> > for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one and

> > all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his

> column

> > of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:-

> > " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of Abhishek

> and

> > Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well educated

> > people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He

> assured

> > them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure, he

> > added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy. Not

> > one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition (10

> > million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, Indira

> > Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of

> disasters

> > unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers did

> was

> > to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is totally

> > false."

> > And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that

> went

> > wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi, the

> > scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so-called

> > science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls."

> > Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality. Astrologers

> > have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of science

> so

> > far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social life.

> I

> > often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's service

> > by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the phase

> of

> > clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning.

> > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological jargons

> or

> > write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists'

> fraternity

> > but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only when

> > we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and

> correct

> > predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible?"

> > Pran Razdan

> >

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan"

> > <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear all,

> > >

> > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking

> > > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not

> > > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a

> > > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost

> if

> > > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of

> the

> > > standard text books, are posed.

> > >

> > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont

> know

> > > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and

> also,

> > > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information.

> > >

> > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people

> > > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people,

> beyond

> > > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean

> that

> > > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but

> in

> > > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and money

> on

> > > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so.

> > >

> > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems

> on

> > > one forum and the learned members will put in their

> > > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions.

> > >

> > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies

> suggested

> > > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same

> > > question is posed in other forums.

> > >

> > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning

> > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a

> > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to

> do

> > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things.

> The

> > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of

> > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy

> on

> > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources

> on

> > > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the

> impression

> > > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply

> their

> > > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on

> > > professional services in astrology is waste of money?

> > >

> > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot.

> > >

> > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do

> some

> > > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am

> > > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to

> learn

> > > something.

> > >

> > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies,

> > > please remember that these are free forums but people who are

> > > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money,

> energy

> > > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You

> > > could not find answers else where.

> > >

> > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit.

> > >

> > > Kishore patnaik

> > >

> >

>

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Dear Razdan,

 

 

While you have made a point, the point made by you is very much

tangential to what I said. I talked of people who are raising

questions here and you are talking of taking the astrology to masses.

Obviously, the people who question here with idle curiosity are

neither masses nor are they some people who need to be convinced

about the 'scientific credentials' of the astrology. If I am not

clear, my criticism is directly pointed at such people who ask very

idly general questions like what does Saturn in so and so sign

indicate?(they can as well buy a saravali and read it, if they are so

much interested, which does not cost more than a good meal nowadays

costing)or people who keep repeating their problems in one forum or

other, with no seriousness towards any of the numerous good or bad

answers they receive.

 

But I know we have a responsibility towards people. I remember the

story of Sri Ramanujam who went up the hill to shout so that every

one listens the secret powerful mantra that he has received from his

guru. We are that blessed small lot who have atleast realised the

genuineness of astrology, if not its greatness and its secrets. We

need to shout about it at top of our voices from the top of a hill so

that every one hears.

 

I keep educating several people, whoever come into contact with me

and I am really astonished that not many, including the educated,

are aware what is astrology(I explain them that it is a horoscope

chart etc.. without going into specifics) and the difference between

astrology, numerology and palmistry etc. Most of them are aware of

their sun signs and based on the dates of birth and solar signs, I

tell them a thing or two, which almost always interests them to ask

me for more info about themselves. I tell them to get the time and

place of their birth and invariably, they return with the details-of

course, so long as it is free:)

 

We are thinking of starting a small NGO which would strive to solve

free of cost, the legal and health problems of people, whether rich

or poor and when this is started, the vedic remedies will invariably

become a part of the package of solutions.

 

If you have any suggestions regarding taking the astrology to the

masses, I am all ears.

 

 

Kishore patnaik

 

 

 

In vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan wrote:

>

> Dear Kishore,

> I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough hardwork

in

> learning astrology and like things served on a platter. Howsoever

hard

> we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try to

> not only expand its base but also render it the scientific

> respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for this

> science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who

writes

> for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one and

> all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his

column

> of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:-

> " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of Abhishek

and

> Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well educated

> people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He

assured

> them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure, he

> added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy. Not

> one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition (10

> million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, Indira

> Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of

disasters

> unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers did

was

> to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is totally

> false."

> And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that

went

> wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi, the

> scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so-called

> science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls."

> Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality. Astrologers

> have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of science

so

> far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social

life. I

> often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's service

> by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the phase

of

> clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning.

> So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological jargons

or

> write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists'

fraternity

> but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only when

> we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and

correct

> predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible?"

> Pran Razdan

>

>

>

> vedic astrology, "kishore mohan"

> <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear all,

> >

> > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking

> > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not

> > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a

> > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost

if

> > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of

the

> > standard text books, are posed.

> >

> > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont

know

> > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and

also,

> > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information.

> >

> > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people

> > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help

people,beyond

> > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean

that

> > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but

in

> > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and

money on

> > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so.

> >

> > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems

on

> > one forum and the learned members will put in their

> > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions.

> >

> > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies

suggested

> > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same

> > question is posed in other forums.

> >

> > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning

> > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a

> > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused

to do

> > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things.

The

> > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of

> > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy

on

> > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such

resources on

> > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the

impression

> > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply

their

> > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on

> > professional services in astrology is waste of money?

> >

> > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot.

> >

> > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do

some

> > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am

> > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to

learn

> > something.

> >

> > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies,

> > please remember that these are free forums but people who are

> > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money,

energy

> > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You

> > could not find answers else where.

> >

> > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit.

> >

> > Kishore patnaik

> >

>

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Share on other sites

Namaskaar Sri Pran

 

I had written about Science, Freedom and Astrology on this forum and other

forums. This article is available in the archives and if you miss it, I

shall post it again. I have given indications in this article that Science

is unscientific!

 

Sri Khushwant Singh, may be a very good literate person but he is not very

educated about the matters of the Religion. By the power of the Lord that

manifests as freedom of choice, he can proclaim anything as scientific or

unscientific. We need not believe him or try to change him to our

understanding. Maybe we have forgotten Edison failed 999 times.

 

I have worked on a scientific project of analysing speech signals and

comparing the two. I failed 400 times in my efforts. I am still trying. Why

am I called scientific, while astrologers are called unscientific? My father

is a National Award winner and has a Presidential medal for Scientific

discoveries, and he failed a number of times too. Noone calls him

unscientific because of this failures. We are we so afraid of failing? After

all, what are we predicting - The Results of our Actions. The results of

actions are given by the Lord and we are attempting to find how the Lord

will give results!

 

The problem does not lie with Astrology, but with our attitude towards this

divine subject. Why do we want Astrology to be accepted as science, when it

is more than Science? Astrology is science and more. If people fail to

understand its uses and limitations, they are bound to make assumptions

about the same.

 

In my view, astrology needs to develop into a proper subject, that is taught

in Universities and formal research is initiated. There has to an

International library and Research Center for Astrology.

 

There is nothing wrong in being wrong in your predictions, but keep studying

and being true to yourself till knowledge dawns upon each one of us and you

are able to make predictions clearly and honestly. Herein, I thank those who

have this knowledge and share it with the forum.

 

As far as cheats are concerned, they are only cheating themselves and sooner

or later destiny will play a role. Have Faith.

 

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

 

 

On 2/27/06, pnrazdan <pnrazdan wrote:

>

> Dear Kishore,

> I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough hardwork in

> learning astrology and like things served on a platter. Howsoever hard

> we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try to

> not only expand its base but also render it the scientific

> respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for this

> science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who writes

> for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one and

> all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his column

> of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:-

> " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of Abhishek and

> Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well educated

> people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He assured

> them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure, he

> added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy. Not

> one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition (10

> million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, Indira

> Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of disasters

> unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers did was

> to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is totally

> false."

> And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that went

> wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi, the

> scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so-called

> science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls."

> Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality. Astrologers

> have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of science so

> far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social life. I

> often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's service

> by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the phase of

> clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning.

> So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological jargons or

> write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists' fraternity

> but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only when

> we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and correct

> predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible?"

> Pran Razdan

>

>

>

> vedic astrology, "kishore mohan"

> <kishorepatnaik09 wrote:

> >

> > Dear all,

> >

> > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking

> > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not

> > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a

> > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost if

> > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of the

> > standard text books, are posed.

> >

> > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont know

> > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and also,

> > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information.

> >

> > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people

> > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people,beyond

> > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean that

> > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but in

> > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and money on

> > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so.

> >

> > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems on

> > one forum and the learned members will put in their

> > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions.

> >

> > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies suggested

> > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same

> > question is posed in other forums.

> >

> > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning

> > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a

> > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to do

> > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The

> > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of

> > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on

> > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources on

> > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the impression

> > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply their

> > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on

> > professional services in astrology is waste of money?

> >

> > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot.

> >

> > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do some

> > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am

> > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to learn

> > something.

> >

> > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies,

> > please remember that these are free forums but people who are

> > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money, energy

> > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You

> > could not find answers else where.

> >

> > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit.

> >

> > Kishore patnaik

> >

 

>

>

>

>

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Astrology

chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=\

Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Uokti\

PHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic

>

astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart\

&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=q\

NtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology

>

horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+c\

hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.s\

ig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology

>

software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+cha\

rt&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig\

=Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw>

> ------------------------------

>

>

>

> - Visit your group

"vedic astrology<vedic astrology>"

> on the web.

>

> -

>

vedic astrology<vedic astrology-@gro\

ups.com?subject=Un>

>

> - Terms of

> Service <>.

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

 

 

 

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Dear Pran Razdan ji,

First of all, thanks for that good mail.

You said:

> Well, I am not sure if this five thousand years

> old knowledge can be called unstandardised or unorganised and

> premature to be of any benefit to the people as yet.

I was not mentioning that with that more than 5000 years old

knowledge it does not develop into a well-organized and dependable

system. It did develop into a well-organized and dependable system

indeed!! But the problem is that, we lost that original system in the

middle, in the flow of time, and what we have today is an unorganized,

bits and pieces of that real perfect system. To state an example-

The First and most revered text of astrology Skanda Hora is not

available today except some slokas form it. Vasishta Hora which

contained 16000 slokas, and Kousika (Viswamithra) Hora which contained

32000 slokas, are also no more available except some slokas from them.

The list of lost texts include, Brihal Prajapathyam, Leghu

Prajapathyam, Sounaka Hora, Garga Hora, Chyevana Hora, Agasthya Hora,

Kasyapa Hora etc. All created by enlightened Rishis.

Even the well respected texts of middle age of astrological

development such as Maya Hora, Sathyacharya Hora Manindha Hora,

Sruthakeerthi Hora, Vishuguptha Hora, Devasena Hora etc are also lost.

What we have today is a Parasara Hora created around 1500 BC and a

Varaha Hora (containing only 573+ slokas) created in 550 AD only, and

the texts sprung up based on that. I hope this explanation makes it

clear, why I referred to the current state of astrology as one in

demolished state.

Again you said:

> do we have anybody of the standing of the authors of this

> knowledge to give it a systematic shape that you aspire.

> The fact of the matter is that we donot have anybody who can

> use this knowledge as a package and present it to the people

> as a simple predictive tool. We need a man of Guru Ramdev's level

> and standing who packaged Yoga and presented it to the common man

> in India.

Yes, I mean exactly the same. But would like to add that, if none is

there to do this job, we ourselves should come forward and do it for

the sake of astrology and for the future generation. There is no

compromise.

> From a closer reading of your mail, I think this is precisely

> what you too have in your mind.

You are exactly right.

> but you seem to be soft on so called researchers.

No friend, no soft corners. Duty is duty, and anybody coming forward

to do it should be appreciated, not at all considering our personal

relation towards them. It is NOT personal.

> Yes, the commercial astrologers are too many. With a little bit of

> knowledge and reading a few books, they go into the market for the

> sake of money.

But I know, I may fail to convey or convince this idea to others. And

yes, I should add that, I won't like to talk about it more. It is not

words but actions that speak better.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan

wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh,

> I read your post with interest. The crux of your message is that the

> astrological knowledge is presently chaotic and needs

"reorganisation"

> and more research before it can be used for the benefit of the

masses

> as a prdictive tool.Well, I am not sure if this five thousand years

> old knowledge can be called unstandardised or unorganised and

> premature to be of any benefit to the people as yet.And do we have

> anybody of the standing of the authors of this knowledge to give it

a

> systematic shape that you aspire.

> The fact of the matter is that we donot have anybody who can use

this

> knowledge as a package and present it to the people as a simple

> predictive tool. We need a man of Guru Ramdev's level and standing

who

> packaged Yoga and presented it to the common man in India.

> From a closer reading of your mail, I think this is precisely what

you

> too have in your mind but you seem to be soft on so called

researchers.

> Yes, the commercial astrologers are too many. With a little bit of

> knowledge and reading a few books, they go into the market for the

> sake of money.

> Regards,

> Pran Razdan

>

> vedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid@> wrote:

> > Dear Pran Razdan ji,

> > I appreciate your concern and sincerity. I agree to most of your

> > observations. But don't agree to the following statement:

> > > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological

> > > jargons or write fanciful books for the use of a limited

> > > astrologists' fraternity but to take astrology to masses.

> > Due to the simple reason that, the ancient and trustworthy system

of

> > astrology is in a demolished state at present, and it needs a lot

of

> > homework and reconstruction effort, before taking it to the masses

in

> > a convincing manner.

> > Re-organizing of available knowledge should be done first, much

> > research is needed in several areas ( especially in areas like

> > circadian rhythm, astrological + biological co-relation etc),

> > development of tools (computer programs for analyzing different

> > theories and concept) should be done, and taking the systematic

> > approach of science, this subject and its concepts should be

explored.

> > It is a lot of work. First step first is approach of a true

> > researcher. And I would say that this homework is the first step.

i.e.

> > Re-organizing of available knowledge.

> > Why I am answering to your question like this. Is it that the so

> > called astrologer should do research only though out his life and

> > shouldn't answer to the questions of qurents?!

> > No. It is not so.

> > You were pointing to Analytically/Scientifically exploring the

> > trustworthiness of astrology and taking it to the masses. But what

is

> > happening now is the holistic use of the available knowledge, by

> > taking use of the limited knowledge and the erroneous system

available

> > today, without not even bothering to explore/re-organize even the

> > available knowledge. Those who are are able to accumulate more

data/

> > slokas etc and use them in a holistic manner makes good

predictions,

> > and those not bad predictions - but all of them are imperfect,

since

> > they don't have the systematic understanding of the subject,

haven't

> > been standardized yet, it is not analytically and scientifically

> > tested and verified yet after developing and using the testing

tools.

> > If you are a researcher then start from the first step mentioned

> > above. If you are an astrologer do what all those astrologers and

so

> > called astrologers are doing. If you are a scientist/programmer

etc

> > try to develop the tools necessary to analytical/scientific

research.

> > But it any case considering "taking it to the masses" it is not

the

> > proper time, though the astrologers do it in an imperfect manner

now.

> > Let them continue doing it. But a truly able and sincere coming in

> > contact with astrology should try to identify his area of work and

> > contribute to it

> > 1) As one who re-organizes the knowledge (Books etc)

> > 2) As an explorer of the theoretical/practical foundation of

the

> > knowledge accumulated by the people in category -1

> > 3) As Tool Developer for testing of hypotheses for the use of

> > people in category-2

> > 4) As one who advertise/popularize the knowledge of the above

3

> > (marketing executives/businessmen)

> > 5) As an astrologer who imperfectly uses the current system,

for�

> > a. For livelihood

> > b. To help people, using the current imperfect knowledge.

> > c. Just out of curiosity in knowledge acquiring and

experimenting

> > Of these 5 Categories, the 5th category is more in number, though

the

> > first 3 do the real work, and the 4th does the duty of a marketing

> > executive or PRO. The 5th category usually composed of people with

> > imperfect knowledge, whose approach is neither scientific/

analytical

> > nor holistic with systematic understanding of the theoretical

basis.

> > In light of the above view, I find the statement:

> > "And this will be possible only when we try to satisfy a larger

> > number of querists with simple and correct predictions.", as an

> > aimless wandering arrow, without power. Of course it is my

opinion,

> > and many a people may have a different opinion.

> > You said:

> > >But then comes the question back "Is this possible?"

> > It doesn't comes back and gone no where, since the base of that

> > question is re-constructed, and the view towards the issue is

altered

> > and made systematic. Better not waste our energy on the masses and

> > concentrate of constructive things for the sake of knowledge (let

it

> > be astrology or anything else) and follow the systematic step by

step

> > process, so as to attain great goals. Interact with masses to an

> > extend, but don't allow that noise to come inside, and disturb the

> > tranquility of inner world, and the systematic efforts. Hopes that

I

> > may able to covey this view/feeling at least to some, who had the

> > experience of the same.

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Kishore,

> > > I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough

hardwork

> > in

> > > learning astrology and like things served on a platter.

Howsoever

> > hard

> > > we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try

to

> > > not only expand its base but also render it the scientific

> > > respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for

this

> > > science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who

> > writes

> > > for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one

and

> > > all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his

> > column

> > > of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:-

> > > " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of

Abhishek

> > and

> > > Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well

educated

> > > people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He

> > assured

> > > them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure,

he

> > > added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy.

Not

> > > one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition

(10

> > > million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu,

Indira

> > > Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of

> > disasters

> > > unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers

did

> > was

> > > to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is

totally

> > > false."

> > > And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that

> > went

> > > wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi,

the

> > > scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so-

called

> > > science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls."

> > > Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality.

Astrologers

> > > have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of

science

> > so

> > > far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social

life.

> > I

> > > often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's

service

> > > by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the

phase

> > of

> > > clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning.

> > > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological

jargons

> > or

> > > write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists'

> > fraternity

> > > but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only

when

> > > we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and

> > correct

> > > predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible?

"

> > > Pran Razdan

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan"

> > > <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear all,

> > > >

> > > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are

asking

> > > > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are

not

> > > > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be

a

> > > > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be

lost

> > if

> > > > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any

of

> > the

> > > > standard text books, are posed.

> > > >

> > > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont

> > know

> > > > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details

and

> > also,

> > > > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information.

> > > >

> > > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that

people

> > > > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help

people,

> > beyond

> > > > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont

mean

> > that

> > > > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers

but

> > in

> > > > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and

money

> > on

> > > > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me

so.

> > > >

> > > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their

problems

> > on

> > > > one forum and the learned members will put in their

> > > > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such

questions.

> > > >

> > > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies

> > suggested

> > > > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the

same

> > > > question is posed in other forums.

> > > >

> > > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning

> > > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a

> > > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he

refused to

> > do

> > > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these

things.

> > The

> > > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots

of

> > > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and

energy

> > on

> > > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such

resources

> > on

> > > > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the

> > impression

> > > > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to

reply

> > their

> > > > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on

> > > > professional services in astrology is waste of money?

> > > >

> > > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a

lot.

> > > >

> > > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to

do

> > some

> > > > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I

am

> > > > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but

to

> > learn

> > > > something.

> > > >

> > > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for

remedies,

> > > > please remember that these are free forums but people who are

> > > > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money,

> > energy

> > > > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which

You

> > > > could not find answers else where.

> > > >

> > > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit.

> > > >

> > > > Kishore patnaik

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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vedic astrology, "kishore mohan"

<kishorepatnaik09 wrote:

>

> Dear Razdan,

>

>

> While you have made a point, the point made by you is very much

> tangential to what I said. I talked of people who are raising

> questions here and you are talking of taking the astrology to

masses.

> Obviously, the people who question here with idle curiosity are

> neither masses nor are they some people who need to be convinced

> about the 'scientific credentials' of the astrology. If I am not

> clear, my criticism is directly pointed at such people who ask

very

> idly general questions like what does Saturn in so and so sign

> indicate?(they can as well buy a saravali and read it, if they are

so

> much interested, which does not cost more than a good meal

nowadays

> costing)or people who keep repeating their problems in one forum

or

> other, with no seriousness towards any of the numerous good or bad

> answers they receive.

>

> But I know we have a responsibility towards people. I remember the

> story of Sri Ramanujam who went up the hill to shout so that every

> one listens the secret powerful mantra that he has received from

his

> guru. We are that blessed small lot who have atleast realised the

> genuineness of astrology, if not its greatness and its secrets. We

> need to shout about it at top of our voices from the top of a hill

so

> that every one hears.

>

> I keep educating several people, whoever come into contact with me

> and I am really astonished that not many, including the educated,

> are aware what is astrology(I explain them that it is a horoscope

> chart etc.. without going into specifics) and the difference

between

> astrology, numerology and palmistry etc. Most of them are aware

of

> their sun signs and based on the dates of birth and solar signs, I

> tell them a thing or two, which almost always interests them to

ask

> me for more info about themselves. I tell them to get the time and

> place of their birth and invariably, they return with the details-

of

> course, so long as it is free:)

>

> We are thinking of starting a small NGO which would strive to

solve

> free of cost, the legal and health problems of people, whether

rich

> or poor and when this is started, the vedic remedies will

invariably

> become a part of the package of solutions.

>

> If you have any suggestions regarding taking the astrology to the

> masses, I am all ears.

>

>

> Kishore patnaik

>

>

>

> In vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Kishore,

> > I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough

hardwork

> in

> > learning astrology and like things served on a platter.

Howsoever

> hard

> > we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try

to

> > not only expand its base but also render it the scientific

> > respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for

this

> > science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who

> writes

> > for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one and

> > all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his

> column

> > of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:-

> > " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of

Abhishek

> and

> > Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well

educated

> > people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He

> assured

> > them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure,

he

> > added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy.

Not

> > one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition

(10

> > million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, Indira

> > Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of

> disasters

> > unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers

did

> was

> > to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is

totally

> > false."

> > And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that

> went

> > wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi,

the

> > scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so-

called

> > science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls."

> > Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality.

Astrologers

> > have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of

science

> so

> > far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social

> life. I

> > often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's

service

> > by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the

phase

> of

> > clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning.

> > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological

jargons

> or

> > write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists'

> fraternity

> > but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only

when

> > we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and

> correct

> > predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible?"

> > Pran Razdan

> >

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan"

> > <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear all,

> > >

> > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking

> > > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are

not

> > > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be

a

> > > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be

lost

> if

> > > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any

of

> the

> > > standard text books, are posed.

> > >

> > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont

> know

> > > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details

and

> also,

> > > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information.

> > >

> > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that

people

> > > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help

> people,beyond

> > > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont

mean

> that

> > > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers

but

> in

> > > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and

> money on

> > > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me

so.

> > >

> > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their

problems

> on

> > > one forum and the learned members will put in their

> > > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such

questions.

> > >

> > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies

> suggested

> > > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same

> > > question is posed in other forums.

> > >

> > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning

> > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a

> > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he

refused

> to do

> > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these

things.

> The

> > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots

of

> > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and

energy

> on

> > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such

> resources on

> > > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the

> impression

> > > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to

reply

> their

> > > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on

> > > professional services in astrology is waste of money?

> > >

> > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a

lot.

> > >

> > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to

do

> some

> > > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I

am

> > > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but

to

> learn

> > > something.

> > >

> > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for

remedies,

> > > please remember that these are free forums but people who are

> > > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money,

> energy

> > > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which

You

> > > could not find answers else where.

> > >

> > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit.

> > >

> > > Kishore patnaik

> > >

> >

>

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Dear Pran Razdan ji,

While reading my own mail for the second time, I felt that the last

para should be slightly modified. It is should be like given below:

You said:

> Yes, the commercial astrologers are too many. With a little bit of

> knowledge and reading a few books, they go into the market for the

> sake of money.

Yes, I agree completely.

While concluding this letter I am having some negative feelings. Like

this...... "But I know, I may fail to convey or convince this idea to

others. And yes, I should add that, I won't like to talk about it

more. It is not words but actions that speak better."

Love,

Sreenadh

 

vedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid

wrote:

>

> Dear Pran Razdan ji,

> First of all, thanks for that good mail.

> You said:

> > Well, I am not sure if this five thousand years

> > old knowledge can be called unstandardised or unorganised and

> > premature to be of any benefit to the people as yet.

> I was not mentioning that with that more than 5000 years old

> knowledge it does not develop into a well-organized and dependable

> system. It did develop into a well-organized and dependable system

> indeed!! But the problem is that, we lost that original system in

the

> middle, in the flow of time, and what we have today is an

unorganized,

> bits and pieces of that real perfect system. To state an example-

> The First and most revered text of astrology Skanda Hora is not

> available today except some slokas form it. Vasishta Hora which

> contained 16000 slokas, and Kousika (Viswamithra) Hora which

contained

> 32000 slokas, are also no more available except some slokas from

them.

> The list of lost texts include, Brihal Prajapathyam, Leghu

> Prajapathyam, Sounaka Hora, Garga Hora, Chyevana Hora, Agasthya

Hora,

> Kasyapa Hora etc. All created by enlightened Rishis.

> Even the well respected texts of middle age of astrological

> development such as Maya Hora, Sathyacharya Hora Manindha Hora,

> Sruthakeerthi Hora, Vishuguptha Hora, Devasena Hora etc are also

lost.

> What we have today is a Parasara Hora created around 1500 BC and a

> Varaha Hora (containing only 573+ slokas) created in 550 AD only,

and

> the texts sprung up based on that. I hope this explanation makes it

> clear, why I referred to the current state of astrology as one in

> demolished state.

> Again you said:

> > do we have anybody of the standing of the authors of this

> > knowledge to give it a systematic shape that you aspire.

> > The fact of the matter is that we donot have anybody who can

> > use this knowledge as a package and present it to the people

> > as a simple predictive tool. We need a man of Guru Ramdev's level

> > and standing who packaged Yoga and presented it to the common man

> > in India.

> Yes, I mean exactly the same. But would like to add that, if none

is

> there to do this job, we ourselves should come forward and do it for

> the sake of astrology and for the future generation. There is no

> compromise.

> > From a closer reading of your mail, I think this is precisely

> > what you too have in your mind.

> You are exactly right.

> > but you seem to be soft on so called researchers.

> No friend, no soft corners. Duty is duty, and anybody coming

forward

> to do it should be appreciated, not at all considering our personal

> relation towards them. It is NOT personal.

> > Yes, the commercial astrologers are too many. With a little bit of

> > knowledge and reading a few books, they go into the market for the

> > sake of money.

> But I know, I may fail to convey or convince this idea to others.

And

> yes, I should add that, I won't like to talk about it more. It is

not

> words but actions that speak better.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Sreenadh,

> > I read your post with interest. The crux of your message is that

the

> > astrological knowledge is presently chaotic and needs

> "reorganisation"

> > and more research before it can be used for the benefit of the

> masses

> > as a prdictive tool.Well, I am not sure if this five thousand

years

> > old knowledge can be called unstandardised or unorganised and

> > premature to be of any benefit to the people as yet.And do we have

> > anybody of the standing of the authors of this knowledge to give

it

> a

> > systematic shape that you aspire.

> > The fact of the matter is that we donot have anybody who can use

> this

> > knowledge as a package and present it to the people as a simple

> > predictive tool. We need a man of Guru Ramdev's level and standing

> who

> > packaged Yoga and presented it to the common man in India.

> > From a closer reading of your mail, I think this is precisely what

> you

> > too have in your mind but you seem to be soft on so called

> researchers.

> > Yes, the commercial astrologers are too many. With a little bit of

> > knowledge and reading a few books, they go into the market for the

> > sake of money.

> > Regards,

> > Pran Razdan

> >

> > vedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid@>

wrote:

> > > Dear Pran Razdan ji,

> > > I appreciate your concern and sincerity. I agree to most of

your

> > > observations. But don't agree to the following statement:

> > > > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological

> > > > jargons or write fanciful books for the use of a limited

> > > > astrologists' fraternity but to take astrology to masses.

> > > Due to the simple reason that, the ancient and trustworthy

system

> of

> > > astrology is in a demolished state at present, and it needs a

lot

> of

> > > homework and reconstruction effort, before taking it to the

masses

> in

> > > a convincing manner.

> > > Re-organizing of available knowledge should be done first, much

> > > research is needed in several areas ( especially in areas like

> > > circadian rhythm, astrological + biological co-relation etc),

> > > development of tools (computer programs for analyzing different

> > > theories and concept) should be done, and taking the systematic

> > > approach of science, this subject and its concepts should be

> explored.

> > > It is a lot of work. First step first is approach of a true

> > > researcher. And I would say that this homework is the first

step.

> i.e.

> > > Re-organizing of available knowledge.

> > > Why I am answering to your question like this. Is it that the

so

> > > called astrologer should do research only though out his life

and

> > > shouldn't answer to the questions of qurents?!

> > > No. It is not so.

> > > You were pointing to Analytically/Scientifically exploring the

> > > trustworthiness of astrology and taking it to the masses. But

what

> is

> > > happening now is the holistic use of the available knowledge, by

> > > taking use of the limited knowledge and the erroneous system

> available

> > > today, without not even bothering to explore/re-organize even

the

> > > available knowledge. Those who are are able to accumulate more

> data/

> > > slokas etc and use them in a holistic manner makes good

> predictions,

> > > and those not bad predictions - but all of them are imperfect,

> since

> > > they don't have the systematic understanding of the subject,

> haven't

> > > been standardized yet, it is not analytically and scientifically

> > > tested and verified yet after developing and using the testing

> tools.

> > > If you are a researcher then start from the first step

mentioned

> > > above. If you are an astrologer do what all those astrologers

and

> so

> > > called astrologers are doing. If you are a scientist/programmer

> etc

> > > try to develop the tools necessary to analytical/scientific

> research.

> > > But it any case considering "taking it to the masses" it is not

> the

> > > proper time, though the astrologers do it in an imperfect manner

> now.

> > > Let them continue doing it. But a truly able and sincere coming

in

> > > contact with astrology should try to identify his area of work

and

> > > contribute to it

> > > 1) As one who re-organizes the knowledge (Books etc)

> > > 2) As an explorer of the theoretical/practical foundation of

> the

> > > knowledge accumulated by the people in category -1

> > > 3) As Tool Developer for testing of hypotheses for the use of

> > > people in category-2

> > > 4) As one who advertise/popularize the knowledge of the above

> 3

> > > (marketing executives/businessmen)

> > > 5) As an astrologer who imperfectly uses the current system,

> for�

> > > a. For livelihood

> > > b. To help people, using the current imperfect knowledge.

> > > c. Just out of curiosity in knowledge acquiring and

> experimenting

> > > Of these 5 Categories, the 5th category is more in number,

though

> the

> > > first 3 do the real work, and the 4th does the duty of a

marketing

> > > executive or PRO. The 5th category usually composed of people

with

> > > imperfect knowledge, whose approach is neither scientific/

> analytical

> > > nor holistic with systematic understanding of the theoretical

> basis.

> > > In light of the above view, I find the statement:

> > > "And this will be possible only when we try to satisfy a larger

> > > number of querists with simple and correct predictions.", as an

> > > aimless wandering arrow, without power. Of course it is my

> opinion,

> > > and many a people may have a different opinion.

> > > You said:

> > > >But then comes the question back "Is this possible?"

> > > It doesn't comes back and gone no where, since the base of that

> > > question is re-constructed, and the view towards the issue is

> altered

> > > and made systematic. Better not waste our energy on the masses

and

> > > concentrate of constructive things for the sake of knowledge

(let

> it

> > > be astrology or anything else) and follow the systematic step by

> step

> > > process, so as to attain great goals. Interact with masses to an

> > > extend, but don't allow that noise to come inside, and disturb

the

> > > tranquility of inner world, and the systematic efforts. Hopes

that

> I

> > > may able to covey this view/feeling at least to some, who had

the

> > > experience of the same.

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Kishore,

> > > > I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough

> hardwork

> > > in

> > > > learning astrology and like things served on a platter.

> Howsoever

> > > hard

> > > > we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and

try

> to

> > > > not only expand its base but also render it the scientific

> > > > respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for

> this

> > > > science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore

who

> > > writes

> > > > for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one

> and

> > > > all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his

> > > column

> > > > of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:-

> > > > " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of

> Abhishek

> > > and

> > > > Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well

> educated

> > > > people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He

> > > assured

> > > > them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good

measure,

> he

> > > > added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his

prophecy.

> Not

> > > > one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition

> (10

> > > > million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu,

> Indira

> > > > Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of

> > > disasters

> > > > unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers

> did

> > > was

> > > > to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is

> totally

> > > > false."

> > > > And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions

that

> > > went

> > > > wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi,

> the

> > > > scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so-

> called

> > > > science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls."

> > > > Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality.

> Astrologers

> > > > have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of

> science

> > > so

> > > > far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social

> life.

> > > I

> > > > often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's

> service

> > > > by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the

> phase

> > > of

> > > > clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning.

> > > > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological

> jargons

> > > or

> > > > write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists'

> > > fraternity

> > > > but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible

only

> when

> > > > we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and

> > > correct

> > > > predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this

possible?

> "

> > > > Pran Razdan

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan"

> > > > <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear all,

> > > > >

> > > > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are

> asking

> > > > > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are

> not

> > > > > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to

be

> a

> > > > > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be

> lost

> > > if

> > > > > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any

> of

> > > the

> > > > > standard text books, are posed.

> > > > >

> > > > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I

dont

> > > know

> > > > > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details

> and

> > > also,

> > > > > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information.

> > > > >

> > > > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that

> people

> > > > > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help

> people,

> > > beyond

> > > > > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont

> mean

> > > that

> > > > > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity

mongers

> but

> > > in

> > > > > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and

> money

> > > on

> > > > > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me

> so.

> > > > >

> > > > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their

> problems

> > > on

> > > > > one forum and the learned members will put in their

> > > > > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such

> questions.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies

> > > suggested

> > > > > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the

> same

> > > > > question is posed in other forums.

> > > > >

> > > > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning

> > > > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a

> > > > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he

> refused to

> > > do

> > > > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these

> things.

> > > The

> > > > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent

lots

> of

> > > > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and

> energy

> > > on

> > > > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such

> resources

> > > on

> > > > > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the

> > > impression

> > > > > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to

> reply

> > > their

> > > > > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning

on

> > > > > professional services in astrology is waste of money?

> > > > >

> > > > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me

a

> lot.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to

> do

> > > some

> > > > > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since

I

> am

> > > > > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but

> to

> > > learn

> > > > > something.

> > > > >

> > > > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for

> remedies,

> > > > > please remember that these are free forums but people who

are

> > > > > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time,

money,

> > > energy

> > > > > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which

> You

> > > > > could not find answers else where.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit.

> > > > >

> > > > > Kishore patnaik

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Kind Attn : Mr. Razdan

 

Kindly excuse me for "intruding" into a discussion which was responding to

Mr. Kishore Patnaik....etc.. There are many things which science itself

unable to explain yet we try keep correcting our theories and laws as we

continue in our quest to know the truth. Astrology is no exception. This

is a great science - when it is in the hands or minds of person with

enlightment, good - in noble person, bad - in average, worse -

commercially inclined person. This correlates well to the science also -

we have surgeons, murderers, military bombs, mining bombs..etc..

 

As a son of an person who spent his entire 50+ years of life in Indian

Archaeology & History, it may be information to you to learn that well

known astrologers of the day ( in 1946 ) did not want Britishers to declare

Indian Independence. They bargained for delayed proclamation. i.e. Allow

Britishers to leave India in 1947, allow Indians to rule themselves, declare

Indian Independece in 1950 or so. However, Britishers were adamant and had

their logics resulting in the known event. Indians choose to delay the

announcement - 15th Aug. 1947, while Pakistan went ahead -14th Aug. 1947.

The delay had many astrological connotations and significations, some of

them included what you have mentioned in your e-mail. This are all

recorded in history - visit the national archives in New Delhi should you be

interested in the veracity of this statements.

 

We have this Mr. NoName who is consistently predicting earth quakes based on

his Rahu centric astro_techniques, better than the scientists of the world.

No explanations are required for a normal believer. Similarly any number

of explanations would NOT do for UNbeliever. This is experience of all.

Hence, there is no point in burning our vocal chords or lung power in

speaking or writing against anything on this subjects. From the content of

your e-mail, I can infer that you strongly believe in Karma Yoga philosophy

- believing in doing a service what one perceives right (in short ), it

would be difficult for a person to appreciate other forms of services which

are also considered equally high by the scriptures which have also laid down

few parameters on the moral conduct.

 

Astrology was meant for the Kings, primarily to guide him to do good for the

masses - general public. Currently, it translated to individuals - wanting

to become KINGS at any cost - i.e. ready buy any remedies or gems to achieve

it !! There is no miracle in life or universe. Every miracle has to

also follow the same set of principles laid down by nature. What we cannot

explain becomes a miracle. Similarly, remedies or gems do not bring good

luck. The dasha system of Indian Astrology are the main "delivery boys"

combined with "planetary transits" ( vehicles in my own slang ). I am yet

to see any person experiencing good when his dasha running is of 6H or 8H or

12H inspite of wearing all kinds of remedies !! Take the casestudy of Mr.

Bharat of Hindu Astrology, whose cousin & her mother died of a medical

ailment. Do you think that the remedies would have helped them ?? Karma

is much higher thing to be "caught" in the gems of remedies !!

 

India choose her destiny purely on astrological terms, result see the raise

of the nation in Venus Mahadasha and see that of Pakistan today. It speaks

for itself. Next waiting to come is Sun Mahadasha i.e. 4HL - education,

infrastructure, housing activity, family.....all attributes of 4H will get a

boost. One's ability to perceive may be limited - as in recent quiz of

Mr. Bharat of Hindu Astrology - many were off mark by roughly 2 years in

predicting the periods of native death. So the same can told of "Modern day

science" or the "economist" who continue to forecast and recast - their

entire life with hardly any hit rates.

 

Inshort, we agree to agree or agree to disagree. That is final

gentleman's boundary limits.

 

Sreeram Srinivas

Sreeram64

 

 

 

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Dear Kishore,

yes, you are right. While you were on a smaller point of stray

questions on the interpretation of grahas etc. sought by some people,

I moved the subject to a bigger issue of the mass use of astrology.

Somehow, I keep thinking of the promotion of astrology, particularly

predective astrology to be of use to humanity in a far bigger

measure.And I am happy that you too think on the same lines. The idea

of an NGO is certainly very good.

As for giving some suggestions, I think the greatest measure would be

to make astrology simple for use of the people. Efforts of B.V.Raman,

Sanjay Rath, Brian Conrad, P.V.R.Narasimha Rao etc. who made astrology

simpler for the people to read and enabled them to make the charts in

a giffy are examples for us to follow.The result of all these efforts

is that to-day more and more people all over the world are taking

interest in the study of Vedic astrology. What is making this

knowledge cheap is the "short cut recipes' like pamphlets on each

graha, sun signs etc. available in the book stores or the newspaper

predictions on the basis of planetary transits. This is what is

prompting people to go in for stray questions and fast track solutions

that you referred to in your mail.

Regards,

Pran Razdan

 

vedic astrology, "kishore mohan"

<kishorepatnaik09 wrote:

>

> Dear Razdan,

>

>

> While you have made a point, the point made by you is very much

> tangential to what I said. I talked of people who are raising

> questions here and you are talking of taking the astrology to masses.

> Obviously, the people who question here with idle curiosity are

> neither masses nor are they some people who need to be convinced

> about the 'scientific credentials' of the astrology. If I am not

> clear, my criticism is directly pointed at such people who ask very

> idly general questions like what does Saturn in so and so sign

> indicate?(they can as well buy a saravali and read it, if they are so

> much interested, which does not cost more than a good meal nowadays

> costing)or people who keep repeating their problems in one forum or

> other, with no seriousness towards any of the numerous good or bad

> answers they receive.

>

> But I know we have a responsibility towards people. I remember the

> story of Sri Ramanujam who went up the hill to shout so that every

> one listens the secret powerful mantra that he has received from his

> guru. We are that blessed small lot who have atleast realised the

> genuineness of astrology, if not its greatness and its secrets. We

> need to shout about it at top of our voices from the top of a hill so

> that every one hears.

>

> I keep educating several people, whoever come into contact with me

> and I am really astonished that not many, including the educated,

> are aware what is astrology(I explain them that it is a horoscope

> chart etc.. without going into specifics) and the difference between

> astrology, numerology and palmistry etc. Most of them are aware of

> their sun signs and based on the dates of birth and solar signs, I

> tell them a thing or two, which almost always interests them to ask

> me for more info about themselves. I tell them to get the time and

> place of their birth and invariably, they return with the details-of

> course, so long as it is free:)

>

> We are thinking of starting a small NGO which would strive to solve

> free of cost, the legal and health problems of people, whether rich

> or poor and when this is started, the vedic remedies will invariably

> become a part of the package of solutions.

>

> If you have any suggestions regarding taking the astrology to the

> masses, I am all ears.

>

>

> Kishore patnaik

>

>

>

> In vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Kishore,

> > I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough hardwork

> in

> > learning astrology and like things served on a platter. Howsoever

> hard

> > we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try to

> > not only expand its base but also render it the scientific

> > respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for this

> > science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who

> writes

> > for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one and

> > all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his

> column

> > of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:-

> > " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of Abhishek

> and

> > Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well educated

> > people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He

> assured

> > them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure, he

> > added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy. Not

> > one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition (10

> > million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, Indira

> > Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of

> disasters

> > unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers did

> was

> > to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is totally

> > false."

> > And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that

> went

> > wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi, the

> > scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so-called

> > science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls."

> > Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality. Astrologers

> > have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of science

> so

> > far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social

> life. I

> > often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's service

> > by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the phase

> of

> > clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning.

> > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological jargons

> or

> > write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists'

> fraternity

> > but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only when

> > we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and

> correct

> > predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible?"

> > Pran Razdan

> >

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan"

> > <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear all,

> > >

> > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking

> > > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not

> > > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a

> > > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost

> if

> > > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of

> the

> > > standard text books, are posed.

> > >

> > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont

> know

> > > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and

> also,

> > > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information.

> > >

> > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people

> > > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help

> people,beyond

> > > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean

> that

> > > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but

> in

> > > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and

> money on

> > > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so.

> > >

> > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems

> on

> > > one forum and the learned members will put in their

> > > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions.

> > >

> > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies

> suggested

> > > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same

> > > question is posed in other forums.

> > >

> > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning

> > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a

> > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused

> to do

> > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things.

> The

> > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of

> > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy

> on

> > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such

> resources on

> > > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the

> impression

> > > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply

> their

> > > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on

> > > professional services in astrology is waste of money?

> > >

> > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot.

> > >

> > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do

> some

> > > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am

> > > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to

> learn

> > > something.

> > >

> > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies,

> > > please remember that these are free forums but people who are

> > > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money,

> energy

> > > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You

> > > could not find answers else where.

> > >

> > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit.

> > >

> > > Kishore patnaik

> > >

> >

>

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Dear Bharat,

I couldnt agree with you more.

When I use the word "science", I know it is too small for astrology.

This is because of the absence of a proper word to use that speaks of

the perfection, easy replicability that I aspire for this knowledge to

be of an easy use to human beings. While we use inductive-deductive

knowledge, statistical model building, several phases of clinical

trials and other research techniques to make an inference replicable

and call it the scientific analysis, much more than this is involved

in the astrological research. For example in our present day

scientific knowledge, the state of mind of the scientist is not

relevant to the result but in the astrological predictions, not only

the querent's but the astrologist's state of mind and character are

relevant factors for a correct prediction. How many such factors play

a part in developing an appropriate astrological model is something

only rishis like Parasara would know. Or may be astrology is much

above the model and functional relationships that we are used to in

predective techniques. So astrology definitely is much more than the

present day science and use of this word is only to fill in the gap

for want of an appropriate word.

The idea of a research institution is very good. In fact the Indian

government should have set up such an institution to revitalise the

Vedic knowledge but since it does not fit into its "secular"

philosophy, it is doubtful it will ever be done at the government

level. An effort was made by K.M.Munshi through the Bharatiya Vidya

Bhawan but this could not grow after him.We urgently need such an

institute.

Regards,

Pran Razdan

 

vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology"

<hinduastrology wrote:

>

> Namaskaar Sri Pran

>

> I had written about Science, Freedom and Astrology on this forum and

other

> forums. This article is available in the archives and if you miss it, I

> shall post it again. I have given indications in this article that

Science

> is unscientific!

>

> Sri Khushwant Singh, may be a very good literate person but he is

not very

> educated about the matters of the Religion. By the power of the Lord

that

> manifests as freedom of choice, he can proclaim anything as

scientific or

> unscientific. We need not believe him or try to change him to our

> understanding. Maybe we have forgotten Edison failed 999 times.

>

> I have worked on a scientific project of analysing speech signals and

> comparing the two. I failed 400 times in my efforts. I am still

trying. Why

> am I called scientific, while astrologers are called unscientific?

My father

> is a National Award winner and has a Presidential medal for Scientific

> discoveries, and he failed a number of times too. Noone calls him

> unscientific because of this failures. We are we so afraid of

failing? After

> all, what are we predicting - The Results of our Actions. The results of

> actions are given by the Lord and we are attempting to find how the Lord

> will give results!

>

> The problem does not lie with Astrology, but with our attitude

towards this

> divine subject. Why do we want Astrology to be accepted as science,

when it

> is more than Science? Astrology is science and more. If people fail to

> understand its uses and limitations, they are bound to make assumptions

> about the same.

>

> In my view, astrology needs to develop into a proper subject, that

is taught

> in Universities and formal research is initiated. There has to an

> International library and Research Center for Astrology.

>

> There is nothing wrong in being wrong in your predictions, but keep

studying

> and being true to yourself till knowledge dawns upon each one of us

and you

> are able to make predictions clearly and honestly. Herein, I thank

those who

> have this knowledge and share it with the forum.

>

> As far as cheats are concerned, they are only cheating themselves

and sooner

> or later destiny will play a role. Have Faith.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

>

> On 2/27/06, pnrazdan <pnrazdan wrote:

> >

> > Dear Kishore,

> > I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough hardwork in

> > learning astrology and like things served on a platter. Howsoever hard

> > we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try to

> > not only expand its base but also render it the scientific

> > respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for this

> > science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who writes

> > for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one and

> > all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his column

> > of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:-

> > " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of Abhishek and

> > Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well educated

> > people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He assured

> > them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure, he

> > added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy. Not

> > one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition (10

> > million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, Indira

> > Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of disasters

> > unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers did was

> > to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is totally

> > false."

> > And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that went

> > wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi, the

> > scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so-called

> > science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls."

> > Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality. Astrologers

> > have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of science so

> > far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social life. I

> > often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's service

> > by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the phase of

> > clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning.

> > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological jargons or

> > write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists' fraternity

> > but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only when

> > we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and correct

> > predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible?"

> > Pran Razdan

> >

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan"

> > <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear all,

> > >

> > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking

> > > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not

> > > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a

> > > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost if

> > > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of the

> > > standard text books, are posed.

> > >

> > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont know

> > > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and

also,

> > > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information.

> > >

> > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people

> > > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help

people,beyond

> > > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean

that

> > > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but in

> > > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and

money on

> > > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so.

> > >

> > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems on

> > > one forum and the learned members will put in their

> > > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions.

> > >

> > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies suggested

> > > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same

> > > question is posed in other forums.

> > >

> > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning

> > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a

> > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused

to do

> > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The

> > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of

> > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on

> > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such

resources on

> > > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the impression

> > > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply

their

> > > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on

> > > professional services in astrology is waste of money?

> > >

> > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot.

> > >

> > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do some

> > > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am

> > > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to

learn

> > > something.

> > >

> > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies,

> > > please remember that these are free forums but people who are

> > > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money,

energy

> > > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You

> > > could not find answers else where.

> > >

> > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit.

> > >

> > > Kishore patnaik

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Astrology

chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=\

Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Uokti\

PHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg>

Vedic

> >

astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart\

&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=q\

NtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA>

Astrology

> >

horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+c\

hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.s\

ig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew>

Astrology

> >

software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+cha\

rt&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig\

=Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw>

> > ------------------------------

> >

> >

> >

> > - Visit your group

"vedic astrology<vedic astrology>"

> > on the web.

> >

> > -

> >

vedic astrology<vedic astrology-@gro\

ups.com?subject=Un>

> >

> > - Terms of

> > Service <>.

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------

> >

>

>

>

>

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Dear Mr. Sreenivas,

Thanks for your mail.

Your information regarding the delay made in the timing of the Indian

independence on astrological factors is indeed a news to me. I thank

you for this.

You are right in saying that one should have faith in astrology to

derive any benefit from it. That is a basic necessity and is true of

other subjects as well.

I too donot believe in vedic remedies, but I have belief in Japs to

propitiate grahas.I simply can't relish the idea of wearing a gem and

getting rid of misfortunes. After all for the atonement of one's bad

karmas, some labour must be involved. On a higher plane it is a

different thing that if one whole heartedly and sincerely asks Lord

Krishna, He can free one from all types of misfortunes since all

grahas are eventually under Him.

Mr Noname's Rahu centric theory is certainly distinct. May be he comes

up with a book on the subject once he brings it to some sort of

stability. There should have been some facility for him to do his

research to bring this theory to a finality.

Regards,

Pran Razdan

 

vedic astrology, "sreeram srinivas"

<sreeram64 wrote:

>

> Kind Attn : Mr. Razdan

>

> Kindly excuse me for "intruding" into a discussion which was

responding to

> Mr. Kishore Patnaik....etc.. There are many things which science

itself

> unable to explain yet we try keep correcting our theories and laws as we

> continue in our quest to know the truth. Astrology is no

exception. This

> is a great science - when it is in the hands or minds of person with

> enlightment, good - in noble person, bad - in average, worse -

> commercially inclined person. This correlates well to the science

also -

> we have surgeons, murderers, military bombs, mining bombs..etc..

>

> As a son of an person who spent his entire 50+ years of life in Indian

> Archaeology & History, it may be information to you to learn that well

> known astrologers of the day ( in 1946 ) did not want Britishers to

declare

> Indian Independence. They bargained for delayed proclamation. i.e.

Allow

> Britishers to leave India in 1947, allow Indians to rule themselves,

declare

> Indian Independece in 1950 or so. However, Britishers were adamant

and had

> their logics resulting in the known event. Indians choose to

delay the

> announcement - 15th Aug. 1947, while Pakistan went ahead -14th Aug.

1947.

> The delay had many astrological connotations and significations, some of

> them included what you have mentioned in your e-mail. This are all

> recorded in history - visit the national archives in New Delhi

should you be

> interested in the veracity of this statements.

>

> We have this Mr. NoName who is consistently predicting earth quakes

based on

> his Rahu centric astro_techniques, better than the scientists of

the world.

> No explanations are required for a normal believer. Similarly any

number

> of explanations would NOT do for UNbeliever. This is experience of

all.

> Hence, there is no point in burning our vocal chords or lung power in

> speaking or writing against anything on this subjects. From the

content of

> your e-mail, I can infer that you strongly believe in Karma Yoga

philosophy

> - believing in doing a service what one perceives right (in short ), it

> would be difficult for a person to appreciate other forms of

services which

> are also considered equally high by the scriptures which have also

laid down

> few parameters on the moral conduct.

>

> Astrology was meant for the Kings, primarily to guide him to do good

for the

> masses - general public. Currently, it translated to individuals -

wanting

> to become KINGS at any cost - i.e. ready buy any remedies or gems to

achieve

> it !! There is no miracle in life or universe. Every miracle

has to

> also follow the same set of principles laid down by nature. What

we cannot

> explain becomes a miracle. Similarly, remedies or gems do not

bring good

> luck. The dasha system of Indian Astrology are the main "delivery

boys"

> combined with "planetary transits" ( vehicles in my own slang ). I

am yet

> to see any person experiencing good when his dasha running is of 6H

or 8H or

> 12H inspite of wearing all kinds of remedies !! Take the casestudy

of Mr.

> Bharat of Hindu Astrology, whose cousin & her mother died of a medical

> ailment. Do you think that the remedies would have helped them ??

Karma

> is much higher thing to be "caught" in the gems of remedies !!

>

> India choose her destiny purely on astrological terms, result see

the raise

> of the nation in Venus Mahadasha and see that of Pakistan today. It

speaks

> for itself. Next waiting to come is Sun Mahadasha i.e. 4HL - education,

> infrastructure, housing activity, family.....all attributes of 4H

will get a

> boost. One's ability to perceive may be limited - as in recent

quiz of

> Mr. Bharat of Hindu Astrology - many were off mark by roughly 2 years in

> predicting the periods of native death. So the same can told of

"Modern day

> science" or the "economist" who continue to forecast and recast - their

> entire life with hardly any hit rates.

>

> Inshort, we agree to agree or agree to disagree. That is final

> gentleman's boundary limits.

>

> Sreeram Srinivas

> Sreeram64

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Dear Srinivas ji,

You said:

> There are many things which science itself

> unable to explain yet we try keep correcting our theories and

> laws as we continue in our quest to know the truth. Astrology

> is no exception. This is a great science - when it is in

> the hands or minds of person with

> enlightment, good - in noble person, bad - in average, worse -

> commercially inclined person.

Thanks. That was a really thought provoking statement.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

vedic astrology, "sreeram srinivas"

<sreeram64 wrote:

>

> Kind Attn : Mr. Razdan

>

> Kindly excuse me for "intruding" into a discussion which was

responding to

> Mr. Kishore Patnaik....etc.. There are many things which science

itself

> unable to explain yet we try keep correcting our theories and laws

as we

> continue in our quest to know the truth. Astrology is no

exception. This

> is a great science - when it is in the hands or minds of person with

> enlightment, good - in noble person, bad - in average, worse -

> commercially inclined person. This correlates well to the science

also -

> we have surgeons, murderers, military bombs, mining bombs..etc..

>

> As a son of an person who spent his entire 50+ years of life in

Indian

> Archaeology & History, it may be information to you to learn that

well

> known astrologers of the day ( in 1946 ) did not want Britishers to

declare

> Indian Independence. They bargained for delayed proclamation. i.e.

Allow

> Britishers to leave India in 1947, allow Indians to rule themselves,

declare

> Indian Independece in 1950 or so. However, Britishers were adamant

and had

> their logics resulting in the known event. Indians choose to

delay the

> announcement - 15th Aug. 1947, while Pakistan went ahead -14th Aug.

1947.

> The delay had many astrological connotations and significations,

some of

> them included what you have mentioned in your e-mail. This are all

> recorded in history - visit the national archives in New Delhi

should you be

> interested in the veracity of this statements.

>

> We have this Mr. NoName who is consistently predicting earth quakes

based on

> his Rahu centric astro_techniques, better than the scientists of

the world.

> No explanations are required for a normal believer. Similarly any

number

> of explanations would NOT do for UNbeliever. This is experience of

all.

> Hence, there is no point in burning our vocal chords or lung power

in

> speaking or writing against anything on this subjects. From the

content of

> your e-mail, I can infer that you strongly believe in Karma Yoga

philosophy

> - believing in doing a service what one perceives right (in short ),

it

> would be difficult for a person to appreciate other forms of

services which

> are also considered equally high by the scriptures which have also

laid down

> few parameters on the moral conduct.

>

> Astrology was meant for the Kings, primarily to guide him to do good

for the

> masses - general public. Currently, it translated to individuals -

wanting

> to become KINGS at any cost - i.e. ready buy any remedies or gems to

achieve

> it !! There is no miracle in life or universe. Every miracle

has to

> also follow the same set of principles laid down by nature. What

we cannot

> explain becomes a miracle. Similarly, remedies or gems do not

bring good

> luck. The dasha system of Indian Astrology are the main "delivery

boys"

> combined with "planetary transits" ( vehicles in my own slang ). I

am yet

> to see any person experiencing good when his dasha running is of 6H

or 8H or

> 12H inspite of wearing all kinds of remedies !! Take the casestudy

of Mr.

> Bharat of Hindu Astrology, whose cousin & her mother died of a

medical

> ailment. Do you think that the remedies would have helped them ??

Karma

> is much higher thing to be "caught" in the gems of remedies !!

>

> India choose her destiny purely on astrological terms, result see

the raise

> of the nation in Venus Mahadasha and see that of Pakistan today. It

speaks

> for itself. Next waiting to come is Sun Mahadasha i.e. 4HL -

education,

> infrastructure, housing activity, family.....all attributes of 4H

will get a

> boost. One's ability to perceive may be limited - as in recent

quiz of

> Mr. Bharat of Hindu Astrology - many were off mark by roughly 2

years in

> predicting the periods of native death. So the same can told of

"Modern day

> science" or the "economist" who continue to forecast and recast -

their

> entire life with hardly any hit rates.

>

> Inshort, we agree to agree or agree to disagree. That is final

> gentleman's boundary limits.

>

> Sreeram Srinivas

> Sreeram64

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

I guess my post has been successfully hijacked by mr razdan. But

certainly, the significance of astrology has precedence over the

small problem that keeps coming up once in a while in the group.

 

To start with, let us be very clear on aspect of Astrology-It is both

a science and an art. It is as much a science as Physiology and as

much an art as diagnosing.

 

If one doctor fails to pin point the physiological problem

accurately, are we going to say that the medical science has failed?

 

There is certainly much scientific temper in astrology, atleast in

those who are pursuding it as a science rather than a tool for

earning more and more money(dont get me wrong... a scientist who is

dedicated to his research also earns money through the research...but

a doctor who prescribes n number of tests and m number of drugs only

to earn money may not be even knowing what is happening on the

reserch front in his field, I hope the point is caught)

 

If there is no scientific temper in there, the combinations and the

classics would not have survived the test of time, at least in this

modern era.

 

If every thing that has been foretold by the classics is standing out

to erratically wrong, then who on earth will go after these classics?

we are following classics only because they are giving out

satisficactory results in our readings of the chart... at least as

much results as in the reading of ECG charts and MI scans by

doctors, if not more...

 

There is no meaning in being apologetic about astrology. AStrology is

indeed a science. If one says no, let us only smile at his ignorance,

because he is no more foolish than the persons who burnt galeleo at

the stakes.

 

Kishore patnaik

 

 

vedic astrology, "sreeram srinivas"

<sreeram64 wrote:

>

> Kind Attn : Mr. Razdan

>

> Kindly excuse me for "intruding" into a discussion which was

responding to

> Mr. Kishore Patnaik....etc.. There are many things which science

itself

> unable to explain yet we try keep correcting our theories and laws

as we

> continue in our quest to know the truth. Astrology is no

exception. This

> is a great science - when it is in the hands or minds of person with

> enlightment, good - in noble person, bad - in average, worse -

> commercially inclined person. This correlates well to the science

also -

> we have surgeons, murderers, military bombs, mining bombs..etc..

>

> As a son of an person who spent his entire 50+ years of life in

Indian

> Archaeology & History, it may be information to you to learn that

well

> known astrologers of the day ( in 1946 ) did not want Britishers to

declare

> Indian Independence. They bargained for delayed proclamation.

i.e. Allow

> Britishers to leave India in 1947, allow Indians to rule

themselves, declare

> Indian Independece in 1950 or so. However, Britishers were

adamant and had

> their logics resulting in the known event. Indians choose to

delay the

> announcement - 15th Aug. 1947, while Pakistan went ahead -14th Aug.

1947.

> The delay had many astrological connotations and significations,

some of

> them included what you have mentioned in your e-mail. This are all

> recorded in history - visit the national archives in New Delhi

should you be

> interested in the veracity of this statements.

>

> We have this Mr. NoName who is consistently predicting earth quakes

based on

> his Rahu centric astro_techniques, better than the scientists of

the world.

> No explanations are required for a normal believer. Similarly any

number

> of explanations would NOT do for UNbeliever. This is experience

of all.

> Hence, there is no point in burning our vocal chords or lung power

in

> speaking or writing against anything on this subjects. From the

content of

> your e-mail, I can infer that you strongly believe in Karma Yoga

philosophy

> - believing in doing a service what one perceives right (in

short ), it

> would be difficult for a person to appreciate other forms of

services which

> are also considered equally high by the scriptures which have also

laid down

> few parameters on the moral conduct.

>

> Astrology was meant for the Kings, primarily to guide him to do

good for the

> masses - general public. Currently, it translated to individuals -

wanting

> to become KINGS at any cost - i.e. ready buy any remedies or gems

to achieve

> it !! There is no miracle in life or universe. Every miracle

has to

> also follow the same set of principles laid down by nature. What

we cannot

> explain becomes a miracle. Similarly, remedies or gems do not

bring good

> luck. The dasha system of Indian Astrology are the main "delivery

boys"

> combined with "planetary transits" ( vehicles in my own slang ). I

am yet

> to see any person experiencing good when his dasha running is of 6H

or 8H or

> 12H inspite of wearing all kinds of remedies !! Take the casestudy

of Mr.

> Bharat of Hindu Astrology, whose cousin & her mother died of a

medical

> ailment. Do you think that the remedies would have helped

them ?? Karma

> is much higher thing to be "caught" in the gems of remedies !!

>

> India choose her destiny purely on astrological terms, result see

the raise

> of the nation in Venus Mahadasha and see that of Pakistan today.

It speaks

> for itself. Next waiting to come is Sun Mahadasha i.e. 4HL -

education,

> infrastructure, housing activity, family.....all attributes of 4H

will get a

> boost. One's ability to perceive may be limited - as in recent

quiz of

> Mr. Bharat of Hindu Astrology - many were off mark by roughly 2

years in

> predicting the periods of native death. So the same can told

of "Modern day

> science" or the "economist" who continue to forecast and recast -

their

> entire life with hardly any hit rates.

>

> Inshort, we agree to agree or agree to disagree. That is final

> gentleman's boundary limits.

>

> Sreeram Srinivas

> Sreeram64

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Dear Kishore patnaik ji,

Don't worry! You and razdan together made it a great point for

discussion, and the essence and points you conveyed are very much

valuable, and as dear Rhoda Reporter said:

> what ever you have written makes good sense and i can relate to it,

> very well.................

Thanks a lot. :)

Love,

Sreenadh

 

 

vedic astrology, "kishore mohan"

<kishorepatnaik09 wrote:

>

> I guess my post has been successfully hijacked by mr razdan. But

> certainly, the significance of astrology has precedence over the

> small problem that keeps coming up once in a while in the group.

>

> To start with, let us be very clear on aspect of Astrology-It is

both

> a science and an art. It is as much a science as Physiology and as

> much an art as diagnosing.

>

> If one doctor fails to pin point the physiological problem

> accurately, are we going to say that the medical science has failed?

>

> There is certainly much scientific temper in astrology, atleast in

> those who are pursuding it as a science rather than a tool for

> earning more and more money(dont get me wrong... a scientist who is

> dedicated to his research also earns money through the research...

but

> a doctor who prescribes n number of tests and m number of drugs only

> to earn money may not be even knowing what is happening on the

> reserch front in his field, I hope the point is caught)

>

> If there is no scientific temper in there, the combinations and the

> classics would not have survived the test of time, at least in this

> modern era.

>

> If every thing that has been foretold by the classics is standing

out

> to erratically wrong, then who on earth will go after these

classics?

> we are following classics only because they are giving out

> satisficactory results in our readings of the chart... at least as

> much results as in the reading of ECG charts and MI scans by

> doctors, if not more...

>

> There is no meaning in being apologetic about astrology. AStrology

is

> indeed a science. If one says no, let us only smile at his

ignorance,

> because he is no more foolish than the persons who burnt galeleo at

> the stakes.

>

> Kishore patnaik

>

>

> vedic astrology, "sreeram srinivas"

> <sreeram64@> wrote:

> >

> > Kind Attn : Mr. Razdan

> >

> > Kindly excuse me for "intruding" into a discussion which was

> responding to

> > Mr. Kishore Patnaik....etc.. There are many things which

science

> itself

> > unable to explain yet we try keep correcting our theories and laws

> as we

> > continue in our quest to know the truth. Astrology is no

> exception. This

> > is a great science - when it is in the hands or minds of person

with

> > enlightment, good - in noble person, bad - in average, worse -

> > commercially inclined person. This correlates well to the

science

> also -

> > we have surgeons, murderers, military bombs, mining bombs..etc..

> >

> > As a son of an person who spent his entire 50+ years of life in

> Indian

> > Archaeology & History, it may be information to you to learn that

> well

> > known astrologers of the day ( in 1946 ) did not want Britishers

to

> declare

> > Indian Independence. They bargained for delayed proclamation.

> i.e. Allow

> > Britishers to leave India in 1947, allow Indians to rule

> themselves, declare

> > Indian Independece in 1950 or so. However, Britishers were

> adamant and had

> > their logics resulting in the known event. Indians choose to

> delay the

> > announcement - 15th Aug. 1947, while Pakistan went ahead -14th

Aug.

> 1947.

> > The delay had many astrological connotations and significations,

> some of

> > them included what you have mentioned in your e-mail. This are

all

> > recorded in history - visit the national archives in New Delhi

> should you be

> > interested in the veracity of this statements.

> >

> > We have this Mr. NoName who is consistently predicting earth

quakes

> based on

> > his Rahu centric astro_techniques, better than the scientists of

> the world.

> > No explanations are required for a normal believer. Similarly

any

> number

> > of explanations would NOT do for UNbeliever. This is experience

> of all.

> > Hence, there is no point in burning our vocal chords or lung power

> in

> > speaking or writing against anything on this subjects. From the

> content of

> > your e-mail, I can infer that you strongly believe in Karma Yoga

> philosophy

> > - believing in doing a service what one perceives right (in

> short ), it

> > would be difficult for a person to appreciate other forms of

> services which

> > are also considered equally high by the scriptures which have also

> laid down

> > few parameters on the moral conduct.

> >

> > Astrology was meant for the Kings, primarily to guide him to do

> good for the

> > masses - general public. Currently, it translated to individuals

-

> wanting

> > to become KINGS at any cost - i.e. ready buy any remedies or gems

> to achieve

> > it !! There is no miracle in life or universe. Every

miracle

> has to

> > also follow the same set of principles laid down by nature. What

> we cannot

> > explain becomes a miracle. Similarly, remedies or gems do not

> bring good

> > luck. The dasha system of Indian Astrology are the main

"delivery

> boys"

> > combined with "planetary transits" ( vehicles in my own slang ).

I

> am yet

> > to see any person experiencing good when his dasha running is of

6H

> or 8H or

> > 12H inspite of wearing all kinds of remedies !! Take the

casestudy

> of Mr.

> > Bharat of Hindu Astrology, whose cousin & her mother died of a

> medical

> > ailment. Do you think that the remedies would have helped

> them ?? Karma

> > is much higher thing to be "caught" in the gems of remedies !!

> >

> > India choose her destiny purely on astrological terms, result see

> the raise

> > of the nation in Venus Mahadasha and see that of Pakistan today.

> It speaks

> > for itself. Next waiting to come is Sun Mahadasha i.e. 4HL -

> education,

> > infrastructure, housing activity, family.....all attributes of 4H

> will get a

> > boost. One's ability to perceive may be limited - as in recent

> quiz of

> > Mr. Bharat of Hindu Astrology - many were off mark by roughly 2

> years in

> > predicting the periods of native death. So the same can told

> of "Modern day

> > science" or the "economist" who continue to forecast and recast -

> their

> > entire life with hardly any hit rates.

> >

> > Inshort, we agree to agree or agree to disagree. That is final

> > gentleman's boundary limits.

> >

> > Sreeram Srinivas

> > Sreeram64@

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

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Guest guest

Dear sreenadhji,

 

My pleasure and thankx

 

regards,

 

Kishore patnaik

 

-- In vedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid wrote:

>

> Dear Kishore patnaik ji,

> Don't worry! You and razdan together made it a great point for

> discussion, and the essence and points you conveyed are very much

> valuable, and as dear Rhoda Reporter said:

> > what ever you have written makes good sense and i can relate to

it,

> > very well.................

> Thanks a lot. :)

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

>

> vedic astrology, "kishore mohan"

> <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote:

> >

> > I guess my post has been successfully hijacked by mr razdan. But

> > certainly, the significance of astrology has precedence over

the

> > small problem that keeps coming up once in a while in the group.

> >

> > To start with, let us be very clear on aspect of Astrology-It is

> both

> > a science and an art. It is as much a science as Physiology and

as

> > much an art as diagnosing.

> >

> > If one doctor fails to pin point the physiological problem

> > accurately, are we going to say that the medical science has

failed?

> >

> > There is certainly much scientific temper in astrology, atleast

in

> > those who are pursuding it as a science rather than a tool for

> > earning more and more money(dont get me wrong... a scientist who

is

> > dedicated to his research also earns money through the research...

> but

> > a doctor who prescribes n number of tests and m number of drugs

only

> > to earn money may not be even knowing what is happening on the

> > reserch front in his field, I hope the point is caught)

> >

> > If there is no scientific temper in there, the combinations and

the

> > classics would not have survived the test of time, at least in

this

> > modern era.

> >

> > If every thing that has been foretold by the classics is standing

> out

> > to erratically wrong, then who on earth will go after these

> classics?

> > we are following classics only because they are giving out

> > satisficactory results in our readings of the chart... at least

as

> > much results as in the reading of ECG charts and MI scans by

> > doctors, if not more...

> >

> > There is no meaning in being apologetic about astrology.

AStrology

> is

> > indeed a science. If one says no, let us only smile at his

> ignorance,

> > because he is no more foolish than the persons who burnt galeleo

at

> > the stakes.

> >

> > Kishore patnaik

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, "sreeram srinivas"

> > <sreeram64@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Kind Attn : Mr. Razdan

> > >

> > > Kindly excuse me for "intruding" into a discussion which was

> > responding to

> > > Mr. Kishore Patnaik....etc.. There are many things which

> science

> > itself

> > > unable to explain yet we try keep correcting our theories and

laws

> > as we

> > > continue in our quest to know the truth. Astrology is no

> > exception. This

> > > is a great science - when it is in the hands or minds of person

> with

> > > enlightment, good - in noble person, bad - in average,

worse -

> > > commercially inclined person. This correlates well to the

> science

> > also -

> > > we have surgeons, murderers, military bombs, mining

bombs..etc..

> > >

> > > As a son of an person who spent his entire 50+ years of life in

> > Indian

> > > Archaeology & History, it may be information to you to learn

that

> > well

> > > known astrologers of the day ( in 1946 ) did not want

Britishers

> to

> > declare

> > > Indian Independence. They bargained for delayed proclamation.

> > i.e. Allow

> > > Britishers to leave India in 1947, allow Indians to rule

> > themselves, declare

> > > Indian Independece in 1950 or so. However, Britishers were

> > adamant and had

> > > their logics resulting in the known event. Indians choose to

> > delay the

> > > announcement - 15th Aug. 1947, while Pakistan went ahead -14th

> Aug.

> > 1947.

> > > The delay had many astrological connotations and

significations,

> > some of

> > > them included what you have mentioned in your e-mail. This

are

> all

> > > recorded in history - visit the national archives in New Delhi

> > should you be

> > > interested in the veracity of this statements.

> > >

> > > We have this Mr. NoName who is consistently predicting earth

> quakes

> > based on

> > > his Rahu centric astro_techniques, better than the scientists

of

> > the world.

> > > No explanations are required for a normal believer. Similarly

> any

> > number

> > > of explanations would NOT do for UNbeliever. This is

experience

> > of all.

> > > Hence, there is no point in burning our vocal chords or lung

power

> > in

> > > speaking or writing against anything on this subjects. From

the

> > content of

> > > your e-mail, I can infer that you strongly believe in Karma

Yoga

> > philosophy

> > > - believing in doing a service what one perceives right (in

> > short ), it

> > > would be difficult for a person to appreciate other forms of

> > services which

> > > are also considered equally high by the scriptures which have

also

> > laid down

> > > few parameters on the moral conduct.

> > >

> > > Astrology was meant for the Kings, primarily to guide him to do

> > good for the

> > > masses - general public. Currently, it translated to

individuals

> -

> > wanting

> > > to become KINGS at any cost - i.e. ready buy any remedies or

gems

> > to achieve

> > > it !! There is no miracle in life or universe. Every

> miracle

> > has to

> > > also follow the same set of principles laid down by nature.

What

> > we cannot

> > > explain becomes a miracle. Similarly, remedies or gems do not

> > bring good

> > > luck. The dasha system of Indian Astrology are the main

> "delivery

> > boys"

> > > combined with "planetary transits" ( vehicles in my own

slang ).

> I

> > am yet

> > > to see any person experiencing good when his dasha running is

of

> 6H

> > or 8H or

> > > 12H inspite of wearing all kinds of remedies !! Take the

> casestudy

> > of Mr.

> > > Bharat of Hindu Astrology, whose cousin & her mother died of a

> > medical

> > > ailment. Do you think that the remedies would have helped

> > them ?? Karma

> > > is much higher thing to be "caught" in the gems of remedies !!

> > >

> > > India choose her destiny purely on astrological terms, result

see

> > the raise

> > > of the nation in Venus Mahadasha and see that of Pakistan

today.

> > It speaks

> > > for itself. Next waiting to come is Sun Mahadasha i.e. 4HL -

> > education,

> > > infrastructure, housing activity, family.....all attributes of

4H

> > will get a

> > > boost. One's ability to perceive may be limited - as in

recent

> > quiz of

> > > Mr. Bharat of Hindu Astrology - many were off mark by roughly 2

> > years in

> > > predicting the periods of native death. So the same can told

> > of "Modern day

> > > science" or the "economist" who continue to forecast and

recast -

> > their

> > > entire life with hardly any hit rates.

> > >

> > > Inshort, we agree to agree or agree to disagree. That is

final

> > > gentleman's boundary limits.

> > >

> > > Sreeram Srinivas

> > > Sreeram64@

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

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Dear shrinadhji,

 

Thankx for the mail. You have put it very nicely in a nutshell.

 

regards,

 

Kishore patnaik

 

vedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid

wrote:

>

> Dear Kishore ji,

> You said:

> > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning

> > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a

> > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused

to

> do

> > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things.

The

> > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of

> > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy

on

> > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources

> > on this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the

> > impression we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously

> > to reply their problems that the astrology is just time pass and

> > spedning on professional services in astrology is waste of money?

> > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot.

>

> I agree with your opinions completely. It is due to such thoughts

> that I avoid answering to most of the queries posted on the forum,

and

> concentrate more on real astrological discussions, encouraging the

> learning and teaching experience, and sharing of knowledge, rather

> than trying to solve somebody's problem, and wasting time and

energy

> on it, who themselves may at times will not value it or even may

not

> bother to read it, and may searching and asking the same questions

to

> every astrologer they met, and may not even have the knowledge and

> ability to assess the capability of the astrologer they are

> approaching!!! Why waste time on such people? It is not good. That

is

> why it is better to concentrate on knowledge sharing in such

forums :)

> Then at least we could have an idea from later responses, that who

is

> resonating to your thoughts and who not.

> Thanks for the good mail.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

>

> vedic astrology, "kishore mohan"

> <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear all,

> >

> > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking

> > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not

> > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a

> > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost

if

> > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of

the

> > standard text books, are posed.

> >

> > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont

know

> > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and

> also,

> > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information.

> >

> > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people

> > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people,

> beyond

> > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean

> that

> > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but

in

> > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and

money

> on

> > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so.

> >

> > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems

on

> > one forum and the learned members will put in their

> > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions.

> >

> > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies

suggested

> > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same

> > question is posed in other forums.

> >

> > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning

> > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a

> > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused

to

> do

> > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things.

The

> > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of

> > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy

on

> > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such

resources

> on

> > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the

impression

> > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply

> their

> > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on

> > professional services in astrology is waste of money?

> >

> > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot.

> >

> > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do

some

> > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am

> > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to

> learn

> > something.

> >

> > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies,

> > please remember that these are free forums but people who are

> > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money,

> energy

> > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You

> > could not find answers else where.

> >

> > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit.

> >

> > Kishore patnaik

> >

>

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