Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Dear all, I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost if such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of the standard text books, are posed. Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont know the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and also, asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information. That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people,beyond the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean that those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but in case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and money on knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so. Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems on one forum and the learned members will put in their knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions. It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies suggested therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same question is posed in other forums. Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to do so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources on this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the impression we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply their problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on professional services in astrology is waste of money? Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot. Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do some home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to learn something. And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies, please remember that these are free forums but people who are bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money, energy and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You could not find answers else where. Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit. Kishore patnaik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Dear Kishore, I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough hardwork in learning astrology and like things served on a platter. Howsoever hard we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try to not only expand its base but also render it the scientific respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for this science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who writes for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one and all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his column of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:- " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of Abhishek and Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well educated people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He assured them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure, he added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy. Not one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition (10 million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of disasters unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers did was to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is totally false." And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that went wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi, the scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so-called science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls." Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality. Astrologers have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of science so far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social life. I often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's service by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the phase of clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning. So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological jargons or write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists' fraternity but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only when we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and correct predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible?" Pran Razdan vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" <kishorepatnaik09 wrote: > > Dear all, > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost if > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of the > standard text books, are posed. > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont know > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and also, > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information. > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people,beyond > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean that > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but in > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and money on > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so. > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems on > one forum and the learned members will put in their > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions. > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies suggested > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same > question is posed in other forums. > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to do > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources on > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the impression > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply their > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on > professional services in astrology is waste of money? > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot. > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do some > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to learn > something. > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies, > please remember that these are free forums but people who are > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money, energy > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You > could not find answers else where. > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit. > > Kishore patnaik > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Dear Kishore ji, You said: > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to do > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources > on this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the > impression we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously > to reply their problems that the astrology is just time pass and > spedning on professional services in astrology is waste of money? > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot. I agree with your opinions completely. It is due to such thoughts that I avoid answering to most of the queries posted on the forum, and concentrate more on real astrological discussions, encouraging the learning and teaching experience, and sharing of knowledge, rather than trying to solve somebody's problem, and wasting time and energy on it, who themselves may at times will not value it or even may not bother to read it, and may searching and asking the same questions to every astrologer they met, and may not even have the knowledge and ability to assess the capability of the astrologer they are approaching!!! Why waste time on such people? It is not good. That is why it is better to concentrate on knowledge sharing in such forums Then at least we could have an idea from later responses, that who is resonating to your thoughts and who not. Thanks for the good mail. Love, Sreenadh vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" <kishorepatnaik09 wrote: > > Dear all, > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost if > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of the > standard text books, are posed. > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont know > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and also, > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information. > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people, beyond > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean that > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but in > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and money on > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so. > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems on > one forum and the learned members will put in their > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions. > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies suggested > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same > question is posed in other forums. > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to do > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources on > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the impression > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply their > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on > professional services in astrology is waste of money? > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot. > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do some > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to learn > something. > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies, > please remember that these are free forums but people who are > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money, energy > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You > could not find answers else where. > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit. > > Kishore patnaik > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Dear Pran Razdan ji, I appreciate your concern and sincerity. I agree to most of your observations. But don't agree to the following statement: > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological > jargons or write fanciful books for the use of a limited > astrologists' fraternity but to take astrology to masses. Due to the simple reason that, the ancient and trustworthy system of astrology is in a demolished state at present, and it needs a lot of homework and reconstruction effort, before taking it to the masses in a convincing manner. Re-organizing of available knowledge should be done first, much research is needed in several areas ( especially in areas like circadian rhythm, astrological + biological co-relation etc), development of tools (computer programs for analyzing different theories and concept) should be done, and taking the systematic approach of science, this subject and its concepts should be explored. It is a lot of work. First step first is approach of a true researcher. And I would say that this homework is the first step. i.e. Re-organizing of available knowledge. Why I am answering to your question like this. Is it that the so called astrologer should do research only though out his life and shouldn't answer to the questions of qurents?! No. It is not so. You were pointing to Analytically/Scientifically exploring the trustworthiness of astrology and taking it to the masses. But what is happening now is the holistic use of the available knowledge, by taking use of the limited knowledge and the erroneous system available today, without not even bothering to explore/re-organize even the available knowledge. Those who are are able to accumulate more data/ slokas etc and use them in a holistic manner makes good predictions, and those not bad predictions - but all of them are imperfect, since they don't have the systematic understanding of the subject, haven't been standardized yet, it is not analytically and scientifically tested and verified yet after developing and using the testing tools. If you are a researcher then start from the first step mentioned above. If you are an astrologer do what all those astrologers and so called astrologers are doing. If you are a scientist/programmer etc try to develop the tools necessary to analytical/scientific research. But it any case considering "taking it to the masses" it is not the proper time, though the astrologers do it in an imperfect manner now. Let them continue doing it. But a truly able and sincere coming in contact with astrology should try to identify his area of work and contribute to it 1) As one who re-organizes the knowledge (Books etc) 2) As an explorer of the theoretical/practical foundation of the knowledge accumulated by the people in category -1 3) As Tool Developer for testing of hypotheses for the use of people in category-2 4) As one who advertise/popularize the knowledge of the above 3 (marketing executives/businessmen) 5) As an astrologer who imperfectly uses the current system, for– a. For livelihood b. To help people, using the current imperfect knowledge. c. Just out of curiosity in knowledge acquiring and experimenting Of these 5 Categories, the 5th category is more in number, though the first 3 do the real work, and the 4th does the duty of a marketing executive or PRO. The 5th category usually composed of people with imperfect knowledge, whose approach is neither scientific/analytical nor holistic with systematic understanding of the theoretical basis. In light of the above view, I find the statement: "And this will be possible only when we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and correct predictions.", as an aimless wandering arrow, without power. Of course it is my opinion, and many a people may have a different opinion. You said: >But then comes the question back "Is this possible?" It doesn't comes back and gone no where, since the base of that question is re-constructed, and the view towards the issue is altered and made systematic. Better not waste our energy on the masses and concentrate of constructive things for the sake of knowledge (let it be astrology or anything else) and follow the systematic step by step process, so as to attain great goals. Interact with masses to an extend, but don't allow that noise to come inside, and disturb the tranquility of inner world, and the systematic efforts. Hopes that I may able to covey this view/feeling at least to some, who had the experience of the same. Love, Sreenadh vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan wrote: > > Dear Kishore, > I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough hardwork in > learning astrology and like things served on a platter. Howsoever hard > we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try to > not only expand its base but also render it the scientific > respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for this > science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who writes > for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one and > all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his column > of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:- > " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of Abhishek and > Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well educated > people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He assured > them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure, he > added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy. Not > one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition (10 > million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, Indira > Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of disasters > unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers did was > to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is totally > false." > And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that went > wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi, the > scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so-called > science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls." > Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality. Astrologers > have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of science so > far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social life. I > often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's service > by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the phase of > clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning. > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological jargons or > write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists' fraternity > but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only when > we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and correct > predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible?" > Pran Razdan > > > > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" > <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking > > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not > > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a > > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost if > > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of the > > standard text books, are posed. > > > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont know > > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and also, > > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information. > > > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people > > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people, beyond > > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean that > > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but in > > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and money on > > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so. > > > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems on > > one forum and the learned members will put in their > > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions. > > > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies suggested > > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same > > question is posed in other forums. > > > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to do > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources on > > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the impression > > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply their > > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on > > professional services in astrology is waste of money? > > > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot. > > > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do some > > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am > > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to learn > > something. > > > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies, > > please remember that these are free forums but people who are > > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money, energy > > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You > > could not find answers else where. > > > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit. > > > > Kishore patnaik > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 iam working out on a solution for similar thing, iam creating a new portal dedicated to the astrologer community, The forum is divided into categories, 1. discussions, advice, articles, resources etc, all the categories are subdivided into sub categories. it will ease all the process, anyone can create a discussion topic and can continue, it. if someone is seeking advice he can create a topic in the advice corner. hence we can use this forum as an online reference. this is completely an open and free portal with no ownerships. Astrologers can also create and update their profile, they will get their own website and promotional stuff all free. The portal will be promoted globally through all the searchengines etc, Iam sure it will generate heavy traffic in the coming days. The development stage is going to complete, i want volunteers to support it. please mail me if anybody is interested. thanks gautam rampal On 2/28/06, Sreenadh <sreelid wrote: > > Dear Kishore ji, > You said: > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to > do > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources > > on this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the > > impression we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously > > to reply their problems that the astrology is just time pass and > > spedning on professional services in astrology is waste of money? > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot. > > I agree with your opinions completely. It is due to such thoughts > that I avoid answering to most of the queries posted on the forum, and > concentrate more on real astrological discussions, encouraging the > learning and teaching experience, and sharing of knowledge, rather > than trying to solve somebody's problem, and wasting time and energy > on it, who themselves may at times will not value it or even may not > bother to read it, and may searching and asking the same questions to > every astrologer they met, and may not even have the knowledge and > ability to assess the capability of the astrologer they are > approaching!!! Why waste time on such people? It is not good. That is > why it is better to concentrate on knowledge sharing in such forums > Then at least we could have an idea from later responses, that who is > resonating to your thoughts and who not. > Thanks for the good mail. > Love, > Sreenadh > > > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" > <kishorepatnaik09 wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking > > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not > > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a > > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost if > > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of the > > standard text books, are posed. > > > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont know > > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and > also, > > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information. > > > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people > > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people, > beyond > > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean > that > > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but in > > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and money > on > > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so. > > > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems on > > one forum and the learned members will put in their > > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions. > > > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies suggested > > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same > > question is posed in other forums. > > > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to > do > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources > on > > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the impression > > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply > their > > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on > > professional services in astrology is waste of money? > > > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot. > > > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do some > > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am > > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to > learn > > something. > > > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies, > > please remember that these are free forums but people who are > > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money, > energy > > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You > > could not find answers else where. > > > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit. > > > > Kishore patnaik > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=\ Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Uokti\ PHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart\ &w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=q\ NtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+c\ hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.s\ ig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+cha\ rt&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig\ =Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > ------------------------------ > > > > - Visit your group "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > on the web. > > - > vedic astrology<vedic astrology-@gro\ ups.com?subject=Un> > > - Terms of > Service <>. > > > ------------------------------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 -- I absolutely agree with Sri Razdan. If a groupie is asking questions , it is in the interest of astrology that we , if we can, gude him / her. To deride their efforts is not good for the subject. - In vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan wrote: > > Dear Kishore, > I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough hardwork in > learning astrology and like things served on a platter. Howsoever hard > we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try to > not only expand its base but also render it the scientific > respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for this > science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who writes > for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one and > all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his column > of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:- > " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of Abhishek and > Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well educated > people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He assured > them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure, he > added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy. Not > one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition (10 > million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, Indira > Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of disasters > unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers did was > to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is totally > false." > And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that went > wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi, the > scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so-called > science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls." > Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality. Astrologers > have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of science so > far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social life. I > often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's service > by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the phase of > clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning. > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological jargons or > write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists' fraternity > but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only when > we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and correct > predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible?" > Pran Razdan > > > > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" > <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking > > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not > > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a > > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost if > > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of the > > standard text books, are posed. > > > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont know > > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and also, > > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information. > > > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people > > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people,beyond > > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean that > > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but in > > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and money on > > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so. > > > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems on > > one forum and the learned members will put in their > > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions. > > > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies suggested > > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same > > question is posed in other forums. > > > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to do > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources on > > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the impression > > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply their > > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on > > professional services in astrology is waste of money? > > > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot. > > > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do some > > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am > > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to learn > > something. > > > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies, > > please remember that these are free forums but people who are > > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money, energy > > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You > > could not find answers else where. > > > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit. > > > > Kishore patnaik > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Dear Sreenadh, I read your post with interest. The crux of your message is that the astrological knowledge is presently chaotic and needs "reorganisation" and more research before it can be used for the benefit of the masses as a prdictive tool.Well, I am not sure if this five thousand years old knowledge can be called unstandardised or unorganised and premature to be of any benefit to the people as yet.And do we have anybody of the standing of the authors of this knowledge to give it a systematic shape that you aspire. The fact of the matter is that we donot have anybody who can use this knowledge as a package and present it to the people as a simple predictive tool. We need a man of Guru Ramdev's level and standing who packaged Yoga and presented it to the common man in India. >From a closer reading of your mail, I think this is precisely what you too have in your mind but you seem to be soft on so called researchers. Yes, the commercial astrologers are too many. With a little bit of knowledge and reading a few books, they go into the market for the sake of money. Regards, Pran Razdan vedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid wrote: > Dear Pran Razdan ji, > I appreciate your concern and sincerity. I agree to most of your > observations. But don't agree to the following statement: > > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological > > jargons or write fanciful books for the use of a limited > > astrologists' fraternity but to take astrology to masses. > Due to the simple reason that, the ancient and trustworthy system of > astrology is in a demolished state at present, and it needs a lot of > homework and reconstruction effort, before taking it to the masses in > a convincing manner. > Re-organizing of available knowledge should be done first, much > research is needed in several areas ( especially in areas like > circadian rhythm, astrological + biological co-relation etc), > development of tools (computer programs for analyzing different > theories and concept) should be done, and taking the systematic > approach of science, this subject and its concepts should be explored. > It is a lot of work. First step first is approach of a true > researcher. And I would say that this homework is the first step. i.e. > Re-organizing of available knowledge. > Why I am answering to your question like this. Is it that the so > called astrologer should do research only though out his life and > shouldn't answer to the questions of qurents?! > No. It is not so. > You were pointing to Analytically/Scientifically exploring the > trustworthiness of astrology and taking it to the masses. But what is > happening now is the holistic use of the available knowledge, by > taking use of the limited knowledge and the erroneous system available > today, without not even bothering to explore/re-organize even the > available knowledge. Those who are are able to accumulate more data/ > slokas etc and use them in a holistic manner makes good predictions, > and those not bad predictions - but all of them are imperfect, since > they don't have the systematic understanding of the subject, haven't > been standardized yet, it is not analytically and scientifically > tested and verified yet after developing and using the testing tools. > If you are a researcher then start from the first step mentioned > above. If you are an astrologer do what all those astrologers and so > called astrologers are doing. If you are a scientist/programmer etc > try to develop the tools necessary to analytical/scientific research. > But it any case considering "taking it to the masses" it is not the > proper time, though the astrologers do it in an imperfect manner now. > Let them continue doing it. But a truly able and sincere coming in > contact with astrology should try to identify his area of work and > contribute to it > 1) As one who re-organizes the knowledge (Books etc) > 2) As an explorer of the theoretical/practical foundation of the > knowledge accumulated by the people in category -1 > 3) As Tool Developer for testing of hypotheses for the use of > people in category-2 > 4) As one who advertise/popularize the knowledge of the above 3 > (marketing executives/businessmen) > 5) As an astrologer who imperfectly uses the current system, for� > a. For livelihood > b. To help people, using the current imperfect knowledge. > c. Just out of curiosity in knowledge acquiring and experimenting > Of these 5 Categories, the 5th category is more in number, though the > first 3 do the real work, and the 4th does the duty of a marketing > executive or PRO. The 5th category usually composed of people with > imperfect knowledge, whose approach is neither scientific/analytical > nor holistic with systematic understanding of the theoretical basis. > In light of the above view, I find the statement: > "And this will be possible only when we try to satisfy a larger > number of querists with simple and correct predictions.", as an > aimless wandering arrow, without power. Of course it is my opinion, > and many a people may have a different opinion. > You said: > >But then comes the question back "Is this possible?" > It doesn't comes back and gone no where, since the base of that > question is re-constructed, and the view towards the issue is altered > and made systematic. Better not waste our energy on the masses and > concentrate of constructive things for the sake of knowledge (let it > be astrology or anything else) and follow the systematic step by step > process, so as to attain great goals. Interact with masses to an > extend, but don't allow that noise to come inside, and disturb the > tranquility of inner world, and the systematic efforts. Hopes that I > may able to covey this view/feeling at least to some, who had the > experience of the same. > Love, > Sreenadh > > > vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Kishore, > > I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough hardwork > in > > learning astrology and like things served on a platter. Howsoever > hard > > we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try to > > not only expand its base but also render it the scientific > > respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for this > > science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who > writes > > for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one and > > all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his > column > > of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:- > > " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of Abhishek > and > > Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well educated > > people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He > assured > > them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure, he > > added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy. Not > > one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition (10 > > million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, Indira > > Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of > disasters > > unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers did > was > > to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is totally > > false." > > And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that > went > > wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi, the > > scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so-called > > science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls." > > Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality. Astrologers > > have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of science > so > > far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social life. > I > > often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's service > > by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the phase > of > > clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning. > > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological jargons > or > > write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists' > fraternity > > but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only when > > we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and > correct > > predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible?" > > Pran Razdan > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" > > <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking > > > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not > > > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a > > > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost > if > > > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of > the > > > standard text books, are posed. > > > > > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont > know > > > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and > also, > > > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information. > > > > > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people > > > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people, > beyond > > > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean > that > > > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but > in > > > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and money > on > > > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so. > > > > > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems > on > > > one forum and the learned members will put in their > > > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions. > > > > > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies > suggested > > > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same > > > question is posed in other forums. > > > > > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning > > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a > > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to > do > > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. > The > > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of > > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy > on > > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources > on > > > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the > impression > > > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply > their > > > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on > > > professional services in astrology is waste of money? > > > > > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot. > > > > > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do > some > > > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am > > > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to > learn > > > something. > > > > > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies, > > > please remember that these are free forums but people who are > > > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money, > energy > > > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You > > > could not find answers else where. > > > > > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit. > > > > > > Kishore patnaik > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Dear Razdan, While you have made a point, the point made by you is very much tangential to what I said. I talked of people who are raising questions here and you are talking of taking the astrology to masses. Obviously, the people who question here with idle curiosity are neither masses nor are they some people who need to be convinced about the 'scientific credentials' of the astrology. If I am not clear, my criticism is directly pointed at such people who ask very idly general questions like what does Saturn in so and so sign indicate?(they can as well buy a saravali and read it, if they are so much interested, which does not cost more than a good meal nowadays costing)or people who keep repeating their problems in one forum or other, with no seriousness towards any of the numerous good or bad answers they receive. But I know we have a responsibility towards people. I remember the story of Sri Ramanujam who went up the hill to shout so that every one listens the secret powerful mantra that he has received from his guru. We are that blessed small lot who have atleast realised the genuineness of astrology, if not its greatness and its secrets. We need to shout about it at top of our voices from the top of a hill so that every one hears. I keep educating several people, whoever come into contact with me and I am really astonished that not many, including the educated, are aware what is astrology(I explain them that it is a horoscope chart etc.. without going into specifics) and the difference between astrology, numerology and palmistry etc. Most of them are aware of their sun signs and based on the dates of birth and solar signs, I tell them a thing or two, which almost always interests them to ask me for more info about themselves. I tell them to get the time and place of their birth and invariably, they return with the details-of course, so long as it is free:) We are thinking of starting a small NGO which would strive to solve free of cost, the legal and health problems of people, whether rich or poor and when this is started, the vedic remedies will invariably become a part of the package of solutions. If you have any suggestions regarding taking the astrology to the masses, I am all ears. Kishore patnaik In vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan wrote: > > Dear Kishore, > I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough hardwork in > learning astrology and like things served on a platter. Howsoever hard > we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try to > not only expand its base but also render it the scientific > respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for this > science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who writes > for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one and > all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his column > of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:- > " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of Abhishek and > Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well educated > people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He assured > them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure, he > added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy. Not > one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition (10 > million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, Indira > Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of disasters > unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers did was > to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is totally > false." > And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that went > wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi, the > scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so-called > science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls." > Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality. Astrologers > have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of science so > far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social life. I > often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's service > by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the phase of > clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning. > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological jargons or > write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists' fraternity > but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only when > we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and correct > predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible?" > Pran Razdan > > > > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" > <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking > > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not > > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a > > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost if > > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of the > > standard text books, are posed. > > > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont know > > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and also, > > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information. > > > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people > > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people,beyond > > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean that > > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but in > > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and money on > > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so. > > > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems on > > one forum and the learned members will put in their > > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions. > > > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies suggested > > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same > > question is posed in other forums. > > > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to do > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources on > > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the impression > > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply their > > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on > > professional services in astrology is waste of money? > > > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot. > > > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do some > > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am > > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to learn > > something. > > > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies, > > please remember that these are free forums but people who are > > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money, energy > > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You > > could not find answers else where. > > > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit. > > > > Kishore patnaik > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Namaskaar Sri Pran I had written about Science, Freedom and Astrology on this forum and other forums. This article is available in the archives and if you miss it, I shall post it again. I have given indications in this article that Science is unscientific! Sri Khushwant Singh, may be a very good literate person but he is not very educated about the matters of the Religion. By the power of the Lord that manifests as freedom of choice, he can proclaim anything as scientific or unscientific. We need not believe him or try to change him to our understanding. Maybe we have forgotten Edison failed 999 times. I have worked on a scientific project of analysing speech signals and comparing the two. I failed 400 times in my efforts. I am still trying. Why am I called scientific, while astrologers are called unscientific? My father is a National Award winner and has a Presidential medal for Scientific discoveries, and he failed a number of times too. Noone calls him unscientific because of this failures. We are we so afraid of failing? After all, what are we predicting - The Results of our Actions. The results of actions are given by the Lord and we are attempting to find how the Lord will give results! The problem does not lie with Astrology, but with our attitude towards this divine subject. Why do we want Astrology to be accepted as science, when it is more than Science? Astrology is science and more. If people fail to understand its uses and limitations, they are bound to make assumptions about the same. In my view, astrology needs to develop into a proper subject, that is taught in Universities and formal research is initiated. There has to an International library and Research Center for Astrology. There is nothing wrong in being wrong in your predictions, but keep studying and being true to yourself till knowledge dawns upon each one of us and you are able to make predictions clearly and honestly. Herein, I thank those who have this knowledge and share it with the forum. As far as cheats are concerned, they are only cheating themselves and sooner or later destiny will play a role. Have Faith. Thanks and Regards Bharat On 2/27/06, pnrazdan <pnrazdan wrote: > > Dear Kishore, > I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough hardwork in > learning astrology and like things served on a platter. Howsoever hard > we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try to > not only expand its base but also render it the scientific > respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for this > science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who writes > for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one and > all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his column > of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:- > " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of Abhishek and > Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well educated > people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He assured > them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure, he > added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy. Not > one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition (10 > million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, Indira > Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of disasters > unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers did was > to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is totally > false." > And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that went > wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi, the > scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so-called > science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls." > Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality. Astrologers > have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of science so > far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social life. I > often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's service > by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the phase of > clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning. > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological jargons or > write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists' fraternity > but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only when > we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and correct > predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible?" > Pran Razdan > > > > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" > <kishorepatnaik09 wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking > > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not > > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a > > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost if > > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of the > > standard text books, are posed. > > > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont know > > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and also, > > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information. > > > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people > > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people,beyond > > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean that > > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but in > > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and money on > > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so. > > > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems on > > one forum and the learned members will put in their > > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions. > > > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies suggested > > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same > > question is posed in other forums. > > > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to do > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources on > > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the impression > > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply their > > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on > > professional services in astrology is waste of money? > > > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot. > > > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do some > > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am > > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to learn > > something. > > > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies, > > please remember that these are free forums but people who are > > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money, energy > > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You > > could not find answers else where. > > > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit. > > > > Kishore patnaik > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=\ Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Uokti\ PHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart\ &w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=q\ NtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+c\ hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.s\ ig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+cha\ rt&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig\ =Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > ------------------------------ > > > > - Visit your group "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > on the web. > > - > vedic astrology<vedic astrology-@gro\ ups.com?subject=Un> > > - Terms of > Service <>. > > > ------------------------------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Dear Pran Razdan ji, First of all, thanks for that good mail. You said: > Well, I am not sure if this five thousand years > old knowledge can be called unstandardised or unorganised and > premature to be of any benefit to the people as yet. I was not mentioning that with that more than 5000 years old knowledge it does not develop into a well-organized and dependable system. It did develop into a well-organized and dependable system indeed!! But the problem is that, we lost that original system in the middle, in the flow of time, and what we have today is an unorganized, bits and pieces of that real perfect system. To state an example- The First and most revered text of astrology Skanda Hora is not available today except some slokas form it. Vasishta Hora which contained 16000 slokas, and Kousika (Viswamithra) Hora which contained 32000 slokas, are also no more available except some slokas from them. The list of lost texts include, Brihal Prajapathyam, Leghu Prajapathyam, Sounaka Hora, Garga Hora, Chyevana Hora, Agasthya Hora, Kasyapa Hora etc. All created by enlightened Rishis. Even the well respected texts of middle age of astrological development such as Maya Hora, Sathyacharya Hora Manindha Hora, Sruthakeerthi Hora, Vishuguptha Hora, Devasena Hora etc are also lost. What we have today is a Parasara Hora created around 1500 BC and a Varaha Hora (containing only 573+ slokas) created in 550 AD only, and the texts sprung up based on that. I hope this explanation makes it clear, why I referred to the current state of astrology as one in demolished state. Again you said: > do we have anybody of the standing of the authors of this > knowledge to give it a systematic shape that you aspire. > The fact of the matter is that we donot have anybody who can > use this knowledge as a package and present it to the people > as a simple predictive tool. We need a man of Guru Ramdev's level > and standing who packaged Yoga and presented it to the common man > in India. Yes, I mean exactly the same. But would like to add that, if none is there to do this job, we ourselves should come forward and do it for the sake of astrology and for the future generation. There is no compromise. > From a closer reading of your mail, I think this is precisely > what you too have in your mind. You are exactly right. > but you seem to be soft on so called researchers. No friend, no soft corners. Duty is duty, and anybody coming forward to do it should be appreciated, not at all considering our personal relation towards them. It is NOT personal. > Yes, the commercial astrologers are too many. With a little bit of > knowledge and reading a few books, they go into the market for the > sake of money. But I know, I may fail to convey or convince this idea to others. And yes, I should add that, I won't like to talk about it more. It is not words but actions that speak better. Love, Sreenadh vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh, > I read your post with interest. The crux of your message is that the > astrological knowledge is presently chaotic and needs "reorganisation" > and more research before it can be used for the benefit of the masses > as a prdictive tool.Well, I am not sure if this five thousand years > old knowledge can be called unstandardised or unorganised and > premature to be of any benefit to the people as yet.And do we have > anybody of the standing of the authors of this knowledge to give it a > systematic shape that you aspire. > The fact of the matter is that we donot have anybody who can use this > knowledge as a package and present it to the people as a simple > predictive tool. We need a man of Guru Ramdev's level and standing who > packaged Yoga and presented it to the common man in India. > From a closer reading of your mail, I think this is precisely what you > too have in your mind but you seem to be soft on so called researchers. > Yes, the commercial astrologers are too many. With a little bit of > knowledge and reading a few books, they go into the market for the > sake of money. > Regards, > Pran Razdan > > vedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid@> wrote: > > Dear Pran Razdan ji, > > I appreciate your concern and sincerity. I agree to most of your > > observations. But don't agree to the following statement: > > > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological > > > jargons or write fanciful books for the use of a limited > > > astrologists' fraternity but to take astrology to masses. > > Due to the simple reason that, the ancient and trustworthy system of > > astrology is in a demolished state at present, and it needs a lot of > > homework and reconstruction effort, before taking it to the masses in > > a convincing manner. > > Re-organizing of available knowledge should be done first, much > > research is needed in several areas ( especially in areas like > > circadian rhythm, astrological + biological co-relation etc), > > development of tools (computer programs for analyzing different > > theories and concept) should be done, and taking the systematic > > approach of science, this subject and its concepts should be explored. > > It is a lot of work. First step first is approach of a true > > researcher. And I would say that this homework is the first step. i.e. > > Re-organizing of available knowledge. > > Why I am answering to your question like this. Is it that the so > > called astrologer should do research only though out his life and > > shouldn't answer to the questions of qurents?! > > No. It is not so. > > You were pointing to Analytically/Scientifically exploring the > > trustworthiness of astrology and taking it to the masses. But what is > > happening now is the holistic use of the available knowledge, by > > taking use of the limited knowledge and the erroneous system available > > today, without not even bothering to explore/re-organize even the > > available knowledge. Those who are are able to accumulate more data/ > > slokas etc and use them in a holistic manner makes good predictions, > > and those not bad predictions - but all of them are imperfect, since > > they don't have the systematic understanding of the subject, haven't > > been standardized yet, it is not analytically and scientifically > > tested and verified yet after developing and using the testing tools. > > If you are a researcher then start from the first step mentioned > > above. If you are an astrologer do what all those astrologers and so > > called astrologers are doing. If you are a scientist/programmer etc > > try to develop the tools necessary to analytical/scientific research. > > But it any case considering "taking it to the masses" it is not the > > proper time, though the astrologers do it in an imperfect manner now. > > Let them continue doing it. But a truly able and sincere coming in > > contact with astrology should try to identify his area of work and > > contribute to it > > 1) As one who re-organizes the knowledge (Books etc) > > 2) As an explorer of the theoretical/practical foundation of the > > knowledge accumulated by the people in category -1 > > 3) As Tool Developer for testing of hypotheses for the use of > > people in category-2 > > 4) As one who advertise/popularize the knowledge of the above 3 > > (marketing executives/businessmen) > > 5) As an astrologer who imperfectly uses the current system, for� > > a. For livelihood > > b. To help people, using the current imperfect knowledge. > > c. Just out of curiosity in knowledge acquiring and experimenting > > Of these 5 Categories, the 5th category is more in number, though the > > first 3 do the real work, and the 4th does the duty of a marketing > > executive or PRO. The 5th category usually composed of people with > > imperfect knowledge, whose approach is neither scientific/ analytical > > nor holistic with systematic understanding of the theoretical basis. > > In light of the above view, I find the statement: > > "And this will be possible only when we try to satisfy a larger > > number of querists with simple and correct predictions.", as an > > aimless wandering arrow, without power. Of course it is my opinion, > > and many a people may have a different opinion. > > You said: > > >But then comes the question back "Is this possible?" > > It doesn't comes back and gone no where, since the base of that > > question is re-constructed, and the view towards the issue is altered > > and made systematic. Better not waste our energy on the masses and > > concentrate of constructive things for the sake of knowledge (let it > > be astrology or anything else) and follow the systematic step by step > > process, so as to attain great goals. Interact with masses to an > > extend, but don't allow that noise to come inside, and disturb the > > tranquility of inner world, and the systematic efforts. Hopes that I > > may able to covey this view/feeling at least to some, who had the > > experience of the same. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > > > vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Kishore, > > > I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough hardwork > > in > > > learning astrology and like things served on a platter. Howsoever > > hard > > > we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try to > > > not only expand its base but also render it the scientific > > > respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for this > > > science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who > > writes > > > for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one and > > > all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his > > column > > > of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:- > > > " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of Abhishek > > and > > > Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well educated > > > people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He > > assured > > > them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure, he > > > added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy. Not > > > one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition (10 > > > million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, Indira > > > Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of > > disasters > > > unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers did > > was > > > to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is totally > > > false." > > > And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that > > went > > > wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi, the > > > scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so- called > > > science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls." > > > Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality. Astrologers > > > have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of science > > so > > > far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social life. > > I > > > often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's service > > > by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the phase > > of > > > clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning. > > > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological jargons > > or > > > write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists' > > fraternity > > > but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only when > > > we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and > > correct > > > predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible? " > > > Pran Razdan > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" > > > <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking > > > > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not > > > > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a > > > > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost > > if > > > > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of > > the > > > > standard text books, are posed. > > > > > > > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont > > know > > > > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and > > also, > > > > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information. > > > > > > > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people > > > > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people, > > beyond > > > > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean > > that > > > > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but > > in > > > > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and money > > on > > > > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so. > > > > > > > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems > > on > > > > one forum and the learned members will put in their > > > > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions. > > > > > > > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies > > suggested > > > > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same > > > > question is posed in other forums. > > > > > > > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning > > > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a > > > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to > > do > > > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. > > The > > > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of > > > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy > > on > > > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources > > on > > > > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the > > impression > > > > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply > > their > > > > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on > > > > professional services in astrology is waste of money? > > > > > > > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot. > > > > > > > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do > > some > > > > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am > > > > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to > > learn > > > > something. > > > > > > > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies, > > > > please remember that these are free forums but people who are > > > > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money, > > energy > > > > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You > > > > could not find answers else where. > > > > > > > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit. > > > > > > > > Kishore patnaik > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" <kishorepatnaik09 wrote: > > Dear Razdan, > > > While you have made a point, the point made by you is very much > tangential to what I said. I talked of people who are raising > questions here and you are talking of taking the astrology to masses. > Obviously, the people who question here with idle curiosity are > neither masses nor are they some people who need to be convinced > about the 'scientific credentials' of the astrology. If I am not > clear, my criticism is directly pointed at such people who ask very > idly general questions like what does Saturn in so and so sign > indicate?(they can as well buy a saravali and read it, if they are so > much interested, which does not cost more than a good meal nowadays > costing)or people who keep repeating their problems in one forum or > other, with no seriousness towards any of the numerous good or bad > answers they receive. > > But I know we have a responsibility towards people. I remember the > story of Sri Ramanujam who went up the hill to shout so that every > one listens the secret powerful mantra that he has received from his > guru. We are that blessed small lot who have atleast realised the > genuineness of astrology, if not its greatness and its secrets. We > need to shout about it at top of our voices from the top of a hill so > that every one hears. > > I keep educating several people, whoever come into contact with me > and I am really astonished that not many, including the educated, > are aware what is astrology(I explain them that it is a horoscope > chart etc.. without going into specifics) and the difference between > astrology, numerology and palmistry etc. Most of them are aware of > their sun signs and based on the dates of birth and solar signs, I > tell them a thing or two, which almost always interests them to ask > me for more info about themselves. I tell them to get the time and > place of their birth and invariably, they return with the details- of > course, so long as it is free:) > > We are thinking of starting a small NGO which would strive to solve > free of cost, the legal and health problems of people, whether rich > or poor and when this is started, the vedic remedies will invariably > become a part of the package of solutions. > > If you have any suggestions regarding taking the astrology to the > masses, I am all ears. > > > Kishore patnaik > > > > In vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > Dear Kishore, > > I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough hardwork > in > > learning astrology and like things served on a platter. Howsoever > hard > > we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try to > > not only expand its base but also render it the scientific > > respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for this > > science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who > writes > > for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one and > > all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his > column > > of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:- > > " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of Abhishek > and > > Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well educated > > people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He > assured > > them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure, he > > added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy. Not > > one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition (10 > > million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, Indira > > Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of > disasters > > unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers did > was > > to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is totally > > false." > > And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that > went > > wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi, the > > scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so- called > > science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls." > > Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality. Astrologers > > have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of science > so > > far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social > life. I > > often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's service > > by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the phase > of > > clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning. > > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological jargons > or > > write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists' > fraternity > > but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only when > > we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and > correct > > predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible?" > > Pran Razdan > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" > > <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking > > > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not > > > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a > > > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost > if > > > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of > the > > > standard text books, are posed. > > > > > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont > know > > > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and > also, > > > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information. > > > > > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people > > > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help > people,beyond > > > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean > that > > > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but > in > > > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and > money on > > > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so. > > > > > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems > on > > > one forum and the learned members will put in their > > > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions. > > > > > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies > suggested > > > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same > > > question is posed in other forums. > > > > > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning > > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a > > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused > to do > > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. > The > > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of > > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy > on > > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such > resources on > > > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the > impression > > > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply > their > > > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on > > > professional services in astrology is waste of money? > > > > > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot. > > > > > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do > some > > > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am > > > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to > learn > > > something. > > > > > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies, > > > please remember that these are free forums but people who are > > > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money, > energy > > > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You > > > could not find answers else where. > > > > > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit. > > > > > > Kishore patnaik > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Dear Pran Razdan ji, While reading my own mail for the second time, I felt that the last para should be slightly modified. It is should be like given below: You said: > Yes, the commercial astrologers are too many. With a little bit of > knowledge and reading a few books, they go into the market for the > sake of money. Yes, I agree completely. While concluding this letter I am having some negative feelings. Like this...... "But I know, I may fail to convey or convince this idea to others. And yes, I should add that, I won't like to talk about it more. It is not words but actions that speak better." Love, Sreenadh vedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid wrote: > > Dear Pran Razdan ji, > First of all, thanks for that good mail. > You said: > > Well, I am not sure if this five thousand years > > old knowledge can be called unstandardised or unorganised and > > premature to be of any benefit to the people as yet. > I was not mentioning that with that more than 5000 years old > knowledge it does not develop into a well-organized and dependable > system. It did develop into a well-organized and dependable system > indeed!! But the problem is that, we lost that original system in the > middle, in the flow of time, and what we have today is an unorganized, > bits and pieces of that real perfect system. To state an example- > The First and most revered text of astrology Skanda Hora is not > available today except some slokas form it. Vasishta Hora which > contained 16000 slokas, and Kousika (Viswamithra) Hora which contained > 32000 slokas, are also no more available except some slokas from them. > The list of lost texts include, Brihal Prajapathyam, Leghu > Prajapathyam, Sounaka Hora, Garga Hora, Chyevana Hora, Agasthya Hora, > Kasyapa Hora etc. All created by enlightened Rishis. > Even the well respected texts of middle age of astrological > development such as Maya Hora, Sathyacharya Hora Manindha Hora, > Sruthakeerthi Hora, Vishuguptha Hora, Devasena Hora etc are also lost. > What we have today is a Parasara Hora created around 1500 BC and a > Varaha Hora (containing only 573+ slokas) created in 550 AD only, and > the texts sprung up based on that. I hope this explanation makes it > clear, why I referred to the current state of astrology as one in > demolished state. > Again you said: > > do we have anybody of the standing of the authors of this > > knowledge to give it a systematic shape that you aspire. > > The fact of the matter is that we donot have anybody who can > > use this knowledge as a package and present it to the people > > as a simple predictive tool. We need a man of Guru Ramdev's level > > and standing who packaged Yoga and presented it to the common man > > in India. > Yes, I mean exactly the same. But would like to add that, if none is > there to do this job, we ourselves should come forward and do it for > the sake of astrology and for the future generation. There is no > compromise. > > From a closer reading of your mail, I think this is precisely > > what you too have in your mind. > You are exactly right. > > but you seem to be soft on so called researchers. > No friend, no soft corners. Duty is duty, and anybody coming forward > to do it should be appreciated, not at all considering our personal > relation towards them. It is NOT personal. > > Yes, the commercial astrologers are too many. With a little bit of > > knowledge and reading a few books, they go into the market for the > > sake of money. > But I know, I may fail to convey or convince this idea to others. And > yes, I should add that, I won't like to talk about it more. It is not > words but actions that speak better. > Love, > Sreenadh > > vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > I read your post with interest. The crux of your message is that the > > astrological knowledge is presently chaotic and needs > "reorganisation" > > and more research before it can be used for the benefit of the > masses > > as a prdictive tool.Well, I am not sure if this five thousand years > > old knowledge can be called unstandardised or unorganised and > > premature to be of any benefit to the people as yet.And do we have > > anybody of the standing of the authors of this knowledge to give it > a > > systematic shape that you aspire. > > The fact of the matter is that we donot have anybody who can use > this > > knowledge as a package and present it to the people as a simple > > predictive tool. We need a man of Guru Ramdev's level and standing > who > > packaged Yoga and presented it to the common man in India. > > From a closer reading of your mail, I think this is precisely what > you > > too have in your mind but you seem to be soft on so called > researchers. > > Yes, the commercial astrologers are too many. With a little bit of > > knowledge and reading a few books, they go into the market for the > > sake of money. > > Regards, > > Pran Razdan > > > > vedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid@> wrote: > > > Dear Pran Razdan ji, > > > I appreciate your concern and sincerity. I agree to most of your > > > observations. But don't agree to the following statement: > > > > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological > > > > jargons or write fanciful books for the use of a limited > > > > astrologists' fraternity but to take astrology to masses. > > > Due to the simple reason that, the ancient and trustworthy system > of > > > astrology is in a demolished state at present, and it needs a lot > of > > > homework and reconstruction effort, before taking it to the masses > in > > > a convincing manner. > > > Re-organizing of available knowledge should be done first, much > > > research is needed in several areas ( especially in areas like > > > circadian rhythm, astrological + biological co-relation etc), > > > development of tools (computer programs for analyzing different > > > theories and concept) should be done, and taking the systematic > > > approach of science, this subject and its concepts should be > explored. > > > It is a lot of work. First step first is approach of a true > > > researcher. And I would say that this homework is the first step. > i.e. > > > Re-organizing of available knowledge. > > > Why I am answering to your question like this. Is it that the so > > > called astrologer should do research only though out his life and > > > shouldn't answer to the questions of qurents?! > > > No. It is not so. > > > You were pointing to Analytically/Scientifically exploring the > > > trustworthiness of astrology and taking it to the masses. But what > is > > > happening now is the holistic use of the available knowledge, by > > > taking use of the limited knowledge and the erroneous system > available > > > today, without not even bothering to explore/re-organize even the > > > available knowledge. Those who are are able to accumulate more > data/ > > > slokas etc and use them in a holistic manner makes good > predictions, > > > and those not bad predictions - but all of them are imperfect, > since > > > they don't have the systematic understanding of the subject, > haven't > > > been standardized yet, it is not analytically and scientifically > > > tested and verified yet after developing and using the testing > tools. > > > If you are a researcher then start from the first step mentioned > > > above. If you are an astrologer do what all those astrologers and > so > > > called astrologers are doing. If you are a scientist/programmer > etc > > > try to develop the tools necessary to analytical/scientific > research. > > > But it any case considering "taking it to the masses" it is not > the > > > proper time, though the astrologers do it in an imperfect manner > now. > > > Let them continue doing it. But a truly able and sincere coming in > > > contact with astrology should try to identify his area of work and > > > contribute to it > > > 1) As one who re-organizes the knowledge (Books etc) > > > 2) As an explorer of the theoretical/practical foundation of > the > > > knowledge accumulated by the people in category -1 > > > 3) As Tool Developer for testing of hypotheses for the use of > > > people in category-2 > > > 4) As one who advertise/popularize the knowledge of the above > 3 > > > (marketing executives/businessmen) > > > 5) As an astrologer who imperfectly uses the current system, > for� > > > a. For livelihood > > > b. To help people, using the current imperfect knowledge. > > > c. Just out of curiosity in knowledge acquiring and > experimenting > > > Of these 5 Categories, the 5th category is more in number, though > the > > > first 3 do the real work, and the 4th does the duty of a marketing > > > executive or PRO. The 5th category usually composed of people with > > > imperfect knowledge, whose approach is neither scientific/ > analytical > > > nor holistic with systematic understanding of the theoretical > basis. > > > In light of the above view, I find the statement: > > > "And this will be possible only when we try to satisfy a larger > > > number of querists with simple and correct predictions.", as an > > > aimless wandering arrow, without power. Of course it is my > opinion, > > > and many a people may have a different opinion. > > > You said: > > > >But then comes the question back "Is this possible?" > > > It doesn't comes back and gone no where, since the base of that > > > question is re-constructed, and the view towards the issue is > altered > > > and made systematic. Better not waste our energy on the masses and > > > concentrate of constructive things for the sake of knowledge (let > it > > > be astrology or anything else) and follow the systematic step by > step > > > process, so as to attain great goals. Interact with masses to an > > > extend, but don't allow that noise to come inside, and disturb the > > > tranquility of inner world, and the systematic efforts. Hopes that > I > > > may able to covey this view/feeling at least to some, who had the > > > experience of the same. > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Kishore, > > > > I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough > hardwork > > > in > > > > learning astrology and like things served on a platter. > Howsoever > > > hard > > > > we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try > to > > > > not only expand its base but also render it the scientific > > > > respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for > this > > > > science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who > > > writes > > > > for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one > and > > > > all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his > > > column > > > > of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:- > > > > " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of > Abhishek > > > and > > > > Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well > educated > > > > people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He > > > assured > > > > them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure, > he > > > > added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy. > Not > > > > one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition > (10 > > > > million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, > Indira > > > > Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of > > > disasters > > > > unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers > did > > > was > > > > to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is > totally > > > > false." > > > > And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that > > > went > > > > wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi, > the > > > > scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so- > called > > > > science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls." > > > > Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality. > Astrologers > > > > have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of > science > > > so > > > > far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social > life. > > > I > > > > often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's > service > > > > by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the > phase > > > of > > > > clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning. > > > > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological > jargons > > > or > > > > write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists' > > > fraternity > > > > but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only > when > > > > we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and > > > correct > > > > predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible? > " > > > > Pran Razdan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" > > > > <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > > > > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are > asking > > > > > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are > not > > > > > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be > a > > > > > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be > lost > > > if > > > > > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any > of > > > the > > > > > standard text books, are posed. > > > > > > > > > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont > > > know > > > > > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details > and > > > also, > > > > > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information. > > > > > > > > > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that > people > > > > > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help > people, > > > beyond > > > > > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont > mean > > > that > > > > > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers > but > > > in > > > > > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and > money > > > on > > > > > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me > so. > > > > > > > > > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their > problems > > > on > > > > > one forum and the learned members will put in their > > > > > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such > questions. > > > > > > > > > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies > > > suggested > > > > > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the > same > > > > > question is posed in other forums. > > > > > > > > > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning > > > > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a > > > > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he > refused to > > > do > > > > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these > things. > > > The > > > > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots > of > > > > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and > energy > > > on > > > > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such > resources > > > on > > > > > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the > > > impression > > > > > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to > reply > > > their > > > > > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on > > > > > professional services in astrology is waste of money? > > > > > > > > > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a > lot. > > > > > > > > > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to > do > > > some > > > > > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I > am > > > > > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but > to > > > learn > > > > > something. > > > > > > > > > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for > remedies, > > > > > please remember that these are free forums but people who are > > > > > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money, > > > energy > > > > > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which > You > > > > > could not find answers else where. > > > > > > > > > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit. > > > > > > > > > > Kishore patnaik > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Kind Attn : Mr. Razdan Kindly excuse me for "intruding" into a discussion which was responding to Mr. Kishore Patnaik....etc.. There are many things which science itself unable to explain yet we try keep correcting our theories and laws as we continue in our quest to know the truth. Astrology is no exception. This is a great science - when it is in the hands or minds of person with enlightment, good - in noble person, bad - in average, worse - commercially inclined person. This correlates well to the science also - we have surgeons, murderers, military bombs, mining bombs..etc.. As a son of an person who spent his entire 50+ years of life in Indian Archaeology & History, it may be information to you to learn that well known astrologers of the day ( in 1946 ) did not want Britishers to declare Indian Independence. They bargained for delayed proclamation. i.e. Allow Britishers to leave India in 1947, allow Indians to rule themselves, declare Indian Independece in 1950 or so. However, Britishers were adamant and had their logics resulting in the known event. Indians choose to delay the announcement - 15th Aug. 1947, while Pakistan went ahead -14th Aug. 1947. The delay had many astrological connotations and significations, some of them included what you have mentioned in your e-mail. This are all recorded in history - visit the national archives in New Delhi should you be interested in the veracity of this statements. We have this Mr. NoName who is consistently predicting earth quakes based on his Rahu centric astro_techniques, better than the scientists of the world. No explanations are required for a normal believer. Similarly any number of explanations would NOT do for UNbeliever. This is experience of all. Hence, there is no point in burning our vocal chords or lung power in speaking or writing against anything on this subjects. From the content of your e-mail, I can infer that you strongly believe in Karma Yoga philosophy - believing in doing a service what one perceives right (in short ), it would be difficult for a person to appreciate other forms of services which are also considered equally high by the scriptures which have also laid down few parameters on the moral conduct. Astrology was meant for the Kings, primarily to guide him to do good for the masses - general public. Currently, it translated to individuals - wanting to become KINGS at any cost - i.e. ready buy any remedies or gems to achieve it !! There is no miracle in life or universe. Every miracle has to also follow the same set of principles laid down by nature. What we cannot explain becomes a miracle. Similarly, remedies or gems do not bring good luck. The dasha system of Indian Astrology are the main "delivery boys" combined with "planetary transits" ( vehicles in my own slang ). I am yet to see any person experiencing good when his dasha running is of 6H or 8H or 12H inspite of wearing all kinds of remedies !! Take the casestudy of Mr. Bharat of Hindu Astrology, whose cousin & her mother died of a medical ailment. Do you think that the remedies would have helped them ?? Karma is much higher thing to be "caught" in the gems of remedies !! India choose her destiny purely on astrological terms, result see the raise of the nation in Venus Mahadasha and see that of Pakistan today. It speaks for itself. Next waiting to come is Sun Mahadasha i.e. 4HL - education, infrastructure, housing activity, family.....all attributes of 4H will get a boost. One's ability to perceive may be limited - as in recent quiz of Mr. Bharat of Hindu Astrology - many were off mark by roughly 2 years in predicting the periods of native death. So the same can told of "Modern day science" or the "economist" who continue to forecast and recast - their entire life with hardly any hit rates. Inshort, we agree to agree or agree to disagree. That is final gentleman's boundary limits. Sreeram Srinivas Sreeram64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Dear Kishore, yes, you are right. While you were on a smaller point of stray questions on the interpretation of grahas etc. sought by some people, I moved the subject to a bigger issue of the mass use of astrology. Somehow, I keep thinking of the promotion of astrology, particularly predective astrology to be of use to humanity in a far bigger measure.And I am happy that you too think on the same lines. The idea of an NGO is certainly very good. As for giving some suggestions, I think the greatest measure would be to make astrology simple for use of the people. Efforts of B.V.Raman, Sanjay Rath, Brian Conrad, P.V.R.Narasimha Rao etc. who made astrology simpler for the people to read and enabled them to make the charts in a giffy are examples for us to follow.The result of all these efforts is that to-day more and more people all over the world are taking interest in the study of Vedic astrology. What is making this knowledge cheap is the "short cut recipes' like pamphlets on each graha, sun signs etc. available in the book stores or the newspaper predictions on the basis of planetary transits. This is what is prompting people to go in for stray questions and fast track solutions that you referred to in your mail. Regards, Pran Razdan vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" <kishorepatnaik09 wrote: > > Dear Razdan, > > > While you have made a point, the point made by you is very much > tangential to what I said. I talked of people who are raising > questions here and you are talking of taking the astrology to masses. > Obviously, the people who question here with idle curiosity are > neither masses nor are they some people who need to be convinced > about the 'scientific credentials' of the astrology. If I am not > clear, my criticism is directly pointed at such people who ask very > idly general questions like what does Saturn in so and so sign > indicate?(they can as well buy a saravali and read it, if they are so > much interested, which does not cost more than a good meal nowadays > costing)or people who keep repeating their problems in one forum or > other, with no seriousness towards any of the numerous good or bad > answers they receive. > > But I know we have a responsibility towards people. I remember the > story of Sri Ramanujam who went up the hill to shout so that every > one listens the secret powerful mantra that he has received from his > guru. We are that blessed small lot who have atleast realised the > genuineness of astrology, if not its greatness and its secrets. We > need to shout about it at top of our voices from the top of a hill so > that every one hears. > > I keep educating several people, whoever come into contact with me > and I am really astonished that not many, including the educated, > are aware what is astrology(I explain them that it is a horoscope > chart etc.. without going into specifics) and the difference between > astrology, numerology and palmistry etc. Most of them are aware of > their sun signs and based on the dates of birth and solar signs, I > tell them a thing or two, which almost always interests them to ask > me for more info about themselves. I tell them to get the time and > place of their birth and invariably, they return with the details-of > course, so long as it is free:) > > We are thinking of starting a small NGO which would strive to solve > free of cost, the legal and health problems of people, whether rich > or poor and when this is started, the vedic remedies will invariably > become a part of the package of solutions. > > If you have any suggestions regarding taking the astrology to the > masses, I am all ears. > > > Kishore patnaik > > > > In vedic astrology, "pnrazdan" <pnrazdan@> wrote: > > > > Dear Kishore, > > I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough hardwork > in > > learning astrology and like things served on a platter. Howsoever > hard > > we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try to > > not only expand its base but also render it the scientific > > respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for this > > science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who > writes > > for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one and > > all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his > column > > of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:- > > " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of Abhishek > and > > Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well educated > > people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He > assured > > them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure, he > > added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy. Not > > one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition (10 > > million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, Indira > > Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of > disasters > > unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers did > was > > to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is totally > > false." > > And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that > went > > wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi, the > > scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so-called > > science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls." > > Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality. Astrologers > > have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of science > so > > far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social > life. I > > often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's service > > by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the phase > of > > clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning. > > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological jargons > or > > write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists' > fraternity > > but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only when > > we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and > correct > > predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible?" > > Pran Razdan > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" > > <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking > > > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not > > > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a > > > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost > if > > > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of > the > > > standard text books, are posed. > > > > > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont > know > > > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and > also, > > > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information. > > > > > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people > > > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help > people,beyond > > > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean > that > > > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but > in > > > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and > money on > > > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so. > > > > > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems > on > > > one forum and the learned members will put in their > > > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions. > > > > > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies > suggested > > > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same > > > question is posed in other forums. > > > > > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning > > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a > > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused > to do > > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. > The > > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of > > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy > on > > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such > resources on > > > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the > impression > > > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply > their > > > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on > > > professional services in astrology is waste of money? > > > > > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot. > > > > > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do > some > > > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am > > > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to > learn > > > something. > > > > > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies, > > > please remember that these are free forums but people who are > > > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money, > energy > > > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You > > > could not find answers else where. > > > > > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit. > > > > > > Kishore patnaik > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Dear Bharat, I couldnt agree with you more. When I use the word "science", I know it is too small for astrology. This is because of the absence of a proper word to use that speaks of the perfection, easy replicability that I aspire for this knowledge to be of an easy use to human beings. While we use inductive-deductive knowledge, statistical model building, several phases of clinical trials and other research techniques to make an inference replicable and call it the scientific analysis, much more than this is involved in the astrological research. For example in our present day scientific knowledge, the state of mind of the scientist is not relevant to the result but in the astrological predictions, not only the querent's but the astrologist's state of mind and character are relevant factors for a correct prediction. How many such factors play a part in developing an appropriate astrological model is something only rishis like Parasara would know. Or may be astrology is much above the model and functional relationships that we are used to in predective techniques. So astrology definitely is much more than the present day science and use of this word is only to fill in the gap for want of an appropriate word. The idea of a research institution is very good. In fact the Indian government should have set up such an institution to revitalise the Vedic knowledge but since it does not fit into its "secular" philosophy, it is doubtful it will ever be done at the government level. An effort was made by K.M.Munshi through the Bharatiya Vidya Bhawan but this could not grow after him.We urgently need such an institute. Regards, Pran Razdan vedic astrology, "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology wrote: > > Namaskaar Sri Pran > > I had written about Science, Freedom and Astrology on this forum and other > forums. This article is available in the archives and if you miss it, I > shall post it again. I have given indications in this article that Science > is unscientific! > > Sri Khushwant Singh, may be a very good literate person but he is not very > educated about the matters of the Religion. By the power of the Lord that > manifests as freedom of choice, he can proclaim anything as scientific or > unscientific. We need not believe him or try to change him to our > understanding. Maybe we have forgotten Edison failed 999 times. > > I have worked on a scientific project of analysing speech signals and > comparing the two. I failed 400 times in my efforts. I am still trying. Why > am I called scientific, while astrologers are called unscientific? My father > is a National Award winner and has a Presidential medal for Scientific > discoveries, and he failed a number of times too. Noone calls him > unscientific because of this failures. We are we so afraid of failing? After > all, what are we predicting - The Results of our Actions. The results of > actions are given by the Lord and we are attempting to find how the Lord > will give results! > > The problem does not lie with Astrology, but with our attitude towards this > divine subject. Why do we want Astrology to be accepted as science, when it > is more than Science? Astrology is science and more. If people fail to > understand its uses and limitations, they are bound to make assumptions > about the same. > > In my view, astrology needs to develop into a proper subject, that is taught > in Universities and formal research is initiated. There has to an > International library and Research Center for Astrology. > > There is nothing wrong in being wrong in your predictions, but keep studying > and being true to yourself till knowledge dawns upon each one of us and you > are able to make predictions clearly and honestly. Herein, I thank those who > have this knowledge and share it with the forum. > > As far as cheats are concerned, they are only cheating themselves and sooner > or later destiny will play a role. Have Faith. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > > On 2/27/06, pnrazdan <pnrazdan wrote: > > > > Dear Kishore, > > I appreciate your concern at the students not doing enough hardwork in > > learning astrology and like things served on a platter. Howsoever hard > > we work at improving the existing astrological knowledge and try to > > not only expand its base but also render it the scientific > > respectability, the impression outside is one of contempt for this > > science. Khushwant Singh, the well known journalist of yore who writes > > for the Hindustan Times on Saturdays (With Malice towards one and > > all)has given a very disrespectful comment to astrology in his column > > of Feb; 25,2006. I am tempted to quote it in full:- > > " ...(talking about the proposed matrimonial prospects of Abhishek and > > Aishwarya)Not so pleasant was to hear that all these well educated > > people shoud set store by what an astrologer's predictions. He assured > > them that all will be well, sooner the better. For good measure, he > > added a few words in Sanskrit to lend sanctity to his prophecy. Not > > one of them was able to forecast calamities like the Partition (10 > > million uprooted, 100000 dead), assassination of the Bapu, Indira > > Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, earthquakes or the tsunami-the list of disasters > > unpredicted is endless. All that the fraternity of astrologers did was > > to later claim that they had forecast these events, which is totally > > false." > > And then he gives some examples of astrological predictions that went > > wrong in his knowledge including a dig at Murli Manohar Joshi, the > > scientist by calling him "chief patron of this hoax of a so-called > > science, could not forecast his own defeat at the polls." > > Unfortunately all this is true. This is a hard reality. Astrologers > > have not been able to put this knowledge on the pedestal of science so > > far for failure to relate it to daily happenings in our social life. I > > often give the example of Sh Ram Dev who is doing a yeoman's service > > by giving scientific credence to Yoga and has now entered the phase of > > clinical trials, the basis of scientific reasoning. > > So what is required is not to discuss complex astrological jargons or > > write fanciful books for the use of a limited astrologists' fraternity > > but to take astrology to masses. And this will be possible only when > > we try to satisfy a larger number of querists with simple and correct > > predictions. But then comes the question back "Is this possible?" > > Pran Razdan > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" > > <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking > > > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not > > > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a > > > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost if > > > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of the > > > standard text books, are posed. > > > > > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont know > > > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and also, > > > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information. > > > > > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people > > > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people,beyond > > > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean that > > > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but in > > > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and money on > > > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so. > > > > > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems on > > > one forum and the learned members will put in their > > > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions. > > > > > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies suggested > > > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same > > > question is posed in other forums. > > > > > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning > > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a > > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to do > > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The > > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of > > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on > > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources on > > > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the impression > > > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply their > > > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on > > > professional services in astrology is waste of money? > > > > > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot. > > > > > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do some > > > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am > > > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to learn > > > something. > > > > > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies, > > > please remember that these are free forums but people who are > > > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money, energy > > > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You > > > could not find answers else where. > > > > > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit. > > > > > > Kishore patnaik > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+chart&w1=Astrology+chart&w2=\ Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=Uokti\ PHSoTwQkpGMXBNeEg> Vedic > > astrology</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Astrology+chart\ &w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig=q\ NtEn5POAbTpzmtNKIdnHA> Astrology > > horoscope</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+horoscope&w1=Astrology+c\ hart&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.s\ ig=8kShDb5zI-EsRMSq6tgiew> Astrology > > software</gads?t=ms&k=Astrology+software&w1=Astrology+cha\ rt&w2=Vedic+astrology&w3=Astrology+horoscope&w4=Astrology+software&c=4&s=91&.sig\ =Je51jg697mjdLNt6iLuaCw> > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > - Visit your group "vedic astrology<vedic astrology>" > > on the web. > > > > - > > vedic astrology<vedic astrology-@gro\ ups.com?subject=Un> > > > > - Terms of > > Service <>. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Dear Mr. Sreenivas, Thanks for your mail. Your information regarding the delay made in the timing of the Indian independence on astrological factors is indeed a news to me. I thank you for this. You are right in saying that one should have faith in astrology to derive any benefit from it. That is a basic necessity and is true of other subjects as well. I too donot believe in vedic remedies, but I have belief in Japs to propitiate grahas.I simply can't relish the idea of wearing a gem and getting rid of misfortunes. After all for the atonement of one's bad karmas, some labour must be involved. On a higher plane it is a different thing that if one whole heartedly and sincerely asks Lord Krishna, He can free one from all types of misfortunes since all grahas are eventually under Him. Mr Noname's Rahu centric theory is certainly distinct. May be he comes up with a book on the subject once he brings it to some sort of stability. There should have been some facility for him to do his research to bring this theory to a finality. Regards, Pran Razdan vedic astrology, "sreeram srinivas" <sreeram64 wrote: > > Kind Attn : Mr. Razdan > > Kindly excuse me for "intruding" into a discussion which was responding to > Mr. Kishore Patnaik....etc.. There are many things which science itself > unable to explain yet we try keep correcting our theories and laws as we > continue in our quest to know the truth. Astrology is no exception. This > is a great science - when it is in the hands or minds of person with > enlightment, good - in noble person, bad - in average, worse - > commercially inclined person. This correlates well to the science also - > we have surgeons, murderers, military bombs, mining bombs..etc.. > > As a son of an person who spent his entire 50+ years of life in Indian > Archaeology & History, it may be information to you to learn that well > known astrologers of the day ( in 1946 ) did not want Britishers to declare > Indian Independence. They bargained for delayed proclamation. i.e. Allow > Britishers to leave India in 1947, allow Indians to rule themselves, declare > Indian Independece in 1950 or so. However, Britishers were adamant and had > their logics resulting in the known event. Indians choose to delay the > announcement - 15th Aug. 1947, while Pakistan went ahead -14th Aug. 1947. > The delay had many astrological connotations and significations, some of > them included what you have mentioned in your e-mail. This are all > recorded in history - visit the national archives in New Delhi should you be > interested in the veracity of this statements. > > We have this Mr. NoName who is consistently predicting earth quakes based on > his Rahu centric astro_techniques, better than the scientists of the world. > No explanations are required for a normal believer. Similarly any number > of explanations would NOT do for UNbeliever. This is experience of all. > Hence, there is no point in burning our vocal chords or lung power in > speaking or writing against anything on this subjects. From the content of > your e-mail, I can infer that you strongly believe in Karma Yoga philosophy > - believing in doing a service what one perceives right (in short ), it > would be difficult for a person to appreciate other forms of services which > are also considered equally high by the scriptures which have also laid down > few parameters on the moral conduct. > > Astrology was meant for the Kings, primarily to guide him to do good for the > masses - general public. Currently, it translated to individuals - wanting > to become KINGS at any cost - i.e. ready buy any remedies or gems to achieve > it !! There is no miracle in life or universe. Every miracle has to > also follow the same set of principles laid down by nature. What we cannot > explain becomes a miracle. Similarly, remedies or gems do not bring good > luck. The dasha system of Indian Astrology are the main "delivery boys" > combined with "planetary transits" ( vehicles in my own slang ). I am yet > to see any person experiencing good when his dasha running is of 6H or 8H or > 12H inspite of wearing all kinds of remedies !! Take the casestudy of Mr. > Bharat of Hindu Astrology, whose cousin & her mother died of a medical > ailment. Do you think that the remedies would have helped them ?? Karma > is much higher thing to be "caught" in the gems of remedies !! > > India choose her destiny purely on astrological terms, result see the raise > of the nation in Venus Mahadasha and see that of Pakistan today. It speaks > for itself. Next waiting to come is Sun Mahadasha i.e. 4HL - education, > infrastructure, housing activity, family.....all attributes of 4H will get a > boost. One's ability to perceive may be limited - as in recent quiz of > Mr. Bharat of Hindu Astrology - many were off mark by roughly 2 years in > predicting the periods of native death. So the same can told of "Modern day > science" or the "economist" who continue to forecast and recast - their > entire life with hardly any hit rates. > > Inshort, we agree to agree or agree to disagree. That is final > gentleman's boundary limits. > > Sreeram Srinivas > Sreeram64 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Note: forwarded message attached. Jiyo cricket on India cricket Messenger Mobile Stay in touch with your buddies all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Dear Srinivas ji, You said: > There are many things which science itself > unable to explain yet we try keep correcting our theories and > laws as we continue in our quest to know the truth. Astrology > is no exception. This is a great science - when it is in > the hands or minds of person with > enlightment, good - in noble person, bad - in average, worse - > commercially inclined person. Thanks. That was a really thought provoking statement. Love, Sreenadh vedic astrology, "sreeram srinivas" <sreeram64 wrote: > > Kind Attn : Mr. Razdan > > Kindly excuse me for "intruding" into a discussion which was responding to > Mr. Kishore Patnaik....etc.. There are many things which science itself > unable to explain yet we try keep correcting our theories and laws as we > continue in our quest to know the truth. Astrology is no exception. This > is a great science - when it is in the hands or minds of person with > enlightment, good - in noble person, bad - in average, worse - > commercially inclined person. This correlates well to the science also - > we have surgeons, murderers, military bombs, mining bombs..etc.. > > As a son of an person who spent his entire 50+ years of life in Indian > Archaeology & History, it may be information to you to learn that well > known astrologers of the day ( in 1946 ) did not want Britishers to declare > Indian Independence. They bargained for delayed proclamation. i.e. Allow > Britishers to leave India in 1947, allow Indians to rule themselves, declare > Indian Independece in 1950 or so. However, Britishers were adamant and had > their logics resulting in the known event. Indians choose to delay the > announcement - 15th Aug. 1947, while Pakistan went ahead -14th Aug. 1947. > The delay had many astrological connotations and significations, some of > them included what you have mentioned in your e-mail. This are all > recorded in history - visit the national archives in New Delhi should you be > interested in the veracity of this statements. > > We have this Mr. NoName who is consistently predicting earth quakes based on > his Rahu centric astro_techniques, better than the scientists of the world. > No explanations are required for a normal believer. Similarly any number > of explanations would NOT do for UNbeliever. This is experience of all. > Hence, there is no point in burning our vocal chords or lung power in > speaking or writing against anything on this subjects. From the content of > your e-mail, I can infer that you strongly believe in Karma Yoga philosophy > - believing in doing a service what one perceives right (in short ), it > would be difficult for a person to appreciate other forms of services which > are also considered equally high by the scriptures which have also laid down > few parameters on the moral conduct. > > Astrology was meant for the Kings, primarily to guide him to do good for the > masses - general public. Currently, it translated to individuals - wanting > to become KINGS at any cost - i.e. ready buy any remedies or gems to achieve > it !! There is no miracle in life or universe. Every miracle has to > also follow the same set of principles laid down by nature. What we cannot > explain becomes a miracle. Similarly, remedies or gems do not bring good > luck. The dasha system of Indian Astrology are the main "delivery boys" > combined with "planetary transits" ( vehicles in my own slang ). I am yet > to see any person experiencing good when his dasha running is of 6H or 8H or > 12H inspite of wearing all kinds of remedies !! Take the casestudy of Mr. > Bharat of Hindu Astrology, whose cousin & her mother died of a medical > ailment. Do you think that the remedies would have helped them ?? Karma > is much higher thing to be "caught" in the gems of remedies !! > > India choose her destiny purely on astrological terms, result see the raise > of the nation in Venus Mahadasha and see that of Pakistan today. It speaks > for itself. Next waiting to come is Sun Mahadasha i.e. 4HL - education, > infrastructure, housing activity, family.....all attributes of 4H will get a > boost. One's ability to perceive may be limited - as in recent quiz of > Mr. Bharat of Hindu Astrology - many were off mark by roughly 2 years in > predicting the periods of native death. So the same can told of "Modern day > science" or the "economist" who continue to forecast and recast - their > entire life with hardly any hit rates. > > Inshort, we agree to agree or agree to disagree. That is final > gentleman's boundary limits. > > Sreeram Srinivas > Sreeram64 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 I guess my post has been successfully hijacked by mr razdan. But certainly, the significance of astrology has precedence over the small problem that keeps coming up once in a while in the group. To start with, let us be very clear on aspect of Astrology-It is both a science and an art. It is as much a science as Physiology and as much an art as diagnosing. If one doctor fails to pin point the physiological problem accurately, are we going to say that the medical science has failed? There is certainly much scientific temper in astrology, atleast in those who are pursuding it as a science rather than a tool for earning more and more money(dont get me wrong... a scientist who is dedicated to his research also earns money through the research...but a doctor who prescribes n number of tests and m number of drugs only to earn money may not be even knowing what is happening on the reserch front in his field, I hope the point is caught) If there is no scientific temper in there, the combinations and the classics would not have survived the test of time, at least in this modern era. If every thing that has been foretold by the classics is standing out to erratically wrong, then who on earth will go after these classics? we are following classics only because they are giving out satisficactory results in our readings of the chart... at least as much results as in the reading of ECG charts and MI scans by doctors, if not more... There is no meaning in being apologetic about astrology. AStrology is indeed a science. If one says no, let us only smile at his ignorance, because he is no more foolish than the persons who burnt galeleo at the stakes. Kishore patnaik vedic astrology, "sreeram srinivas" <sreeram64 wrote: > > Kind Attn : Mr. Razdan > > Kindly excuse me for "intruding" into a discussion which was responding to > Mr. Kishore Patnaik....etc.. There are many things which science itself > unable to explain yet we try keep correcting our theories and laws as we > continue in our quest to know the truth. Astrology is no exception. This > is a great science - when it is in the hands or minds of person with > enlightment, good - in noble person, bad - in average, worse - > commercially inclined person. This correlates well to the science also - > we have surgeons, murderers, military bombs, mining bombs..etc.. > > As a son of an person who spent his entire 50+ years of life in Indian > Archaeology & History, it may be information to you to learn that well > known astrologers of the day ( in 1946 ) did not want Britishers to declare > Indian Independence. They bargained for delayed proclamation. i.e. Allow > Britishers to leave India in 1947, allow Indians to rule themselves, declare > Indian Independece in 1950 or so. However, Britishers were adamant and had > their logics resulting in the known event. Indians choose to delay the > announcement - 15th Aug. 1947, while Pakistan went ahead -14th Aug. 1947. > The delay had many astrological connotations and significations, some of > them included what you have mentioned in your e-mail. This are all > recorded in history - visit the national archives in New Delhi should you be > interested in the veracity of this statements. > > We have this Mr. NoName who is consistently predicting earth quakes based on > his Rahu centric astro_techniques, better than the scientists of the world. > No explanations are required for a normal believer. Similarly any number > of explanations would NOT do for UNbeliever. This is experience of all. > Hence, there is no point in burning our vocal chords or lung power in > speaking or writing against anything on this subjects. From the content of > your e-mail, I can infer that you strongly believe in Karma Yoga philosophy > - believing in doing a service what one perceives right (in short ), it > would be difficult for a person to appreciate other forms of services which > are also considered equally high by the scriptures which have also laid down > few parameters on the moral conduct. > > Astrology was meant for the Kings, primarily to guide him to do good for the > masses - general public. Currently, it translated to individuals - wanting > to become KINGS at any cost - i.e. ready buy any remedies or gems to achieve > it !! There is no miracle in life or universe. Every miracle has to > also follow the same set of principles laid down by nature. What we cannot > explain becomes a miracle. Similarly, remedies or gems do not bring good > luck. The dasha system of Indian Astrology are the main "delivery boys" > combined with "planetary transits" ( vehicles in my own slang ). I am yet > to see any person experiencing good when his dasha running is of 6H or 8H or > 12H inspite of wearing all kinds of remedies !! Take the casestudy of Mr. > Bharat of Hindu Astrology, whose cousin & her mother died of a medical > ailment. Do you think that the remedies would have helped them ?? Karma > is much higher thing to be "caught" in the gems of remedies !! > > India choose her destiny purely on astrological terms, result see the raise > of the nation in Venus Mahadasha and see that of Pakistan today. It speaks > for itself. Next waiting to come is Sun Mahadasha i.e. 4HL - education, > infrastructure, housing activity, family.....all attributes of 4H will get a > boost. One's ability to perceive may be limited - as in recent quiz of > Mr. Bharat of Hindu Astrology - many were off mark by roughly 2 years in > predicting the periods of native death. So the same can told of "Modern day > science" or the "economist" who continue to forecast and recast - their > entire life with hardly any hit rates. > > Inshort, we agree to agree or agree to disagree. That is final > gentleman's boundary limits. > > Sreeram Srinivas > Sreeram64 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2006 Report Share Posted March 2, 2006 Dear Kishore patnaik ji, Don't worry! You and razdan together made it a great point for discussion, and the essence and points you conveyed are very much valuable, and as dear Rhoda Reporter said: > what ever you have written makes good sense and i can relate to it, > very well................. Thanks a lot. Love, Sreenadh vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" <kishorepatnaik09 wrote: > > I guess my post has been successfully hijacked by mr razdan. But > certainly, the significance of astrology has precedence over the > small problem that keeps coming up once in a while in the group. > > To start with, let us be very clear on aspect of Astrology-It is both > a science and an art. It is as much a science as Physiology and as > much an art as diagnosing. > > If one doctor fails to pin point the physiological problem > accurately, are we going to say that the medical science has failed? > > There is certainly much scientific temper in astrology, atleast in > those who are pursuding it as a science rather than a tool for > earning more and more money(dont get me wrong... a scientist who is > dedicated to his research also earns money through the research... but > a doctor who prescribes n number of tests and m number of drugs only > to earn money may not be even knowing what is happening on the > reserch front in his field, I hope the point is caught) > > If there is no scientific temper in there, the combinations and the > classics would not have survived the test of time, at least in this > modern era. > > If every thing that has been foretold by the classics is standing out > to erratically wrong, then who on earth will go after these classics? > we are following classics only because they are giving out > satisficactory results in our readings of the chart... at least as > much results as in the reading of ECG charts and MI scans by > doctors, if not more... > > There is no meaning in being apologetic about astrology. AStrology is > indeed a science. If one says no, let us only smile at his ignorance, > because he is no more foolish than the persons who burnt galeleo at > the stakes. > > Kishore patnaik > > > vedic astrology, "sreeram srinivas" > <sreeram64@> wrote: > > > > Kind Attn : Mr. Razdan > > > > Kindly excuse me for "intruding" into a discussion which was > responding to > > Mr. Kishore Patnaik....etc.. There are many things which science > itself > > unable to explain yet we try keep correcting our theories and laws > as we > > continue in our quest to know the truth. Astrology is no > exception. This > > is a great science - when it is in the hands or minds of person with > > enlightment, good - in noble person, bad - in average, worse - > > commercially inclined person. This correlates well to the science > also - > > we have surgeons, murderers, military bombs, mining bombs..etc.. > > > > As a son of an person who spent his entire 50+ years of life in > Indian > > Archaeology & History, it may be information to you to learn that > well > > known astrologers of the day ( in 1946 ) did not want Britishers to > declare > > Indian Independence. They bargained for delayed proclamation. > i.e. Allow > > Britishers to leave India in 1947, allow Indians to rule > themselves, declare > > Indian Independece in 1950 or so. However, Britishers were > adamant and had > > their logics resulting in the known event. Indians choose to > delay the > > announcement - 15th Aug. 1947, while Pakistan went ahead -14th Aug. > 1947. > > The delay had many astrological connotations and significations, > some of > > them included what you have mentioned in your e-mail. This are all > > recorded in history - visit the national archives in New Delhi > should you be > > interested in the veracity of this statements. > > > > We have this Mr. NoName who is consistently predicting earth quakes > based on > > his Rahu centric astro_techniques, better than the scientists of > the world. > > No explanations are required for a normal believer. Similarly any > number > > of explanations would NOT do for UNbeliever. This is experience > of all. > > Hence, there is no point in burning our vocal chords or lung power > in > > speaking or writing against anything on this subjects. From the > content of > > your e-mail, I can infer that you strongly believe in Karma Yoga > philosophy > > - believing in doing a service what one perceives right (in > short ), it > > would be difficult for a person to appreciate other forms of > services which > > are also considered equally high by the scriptures which have also > laid down > > few parameters on the moral conduct. > > > > Astrology was meant for the Kings, primarily to guide him to do > good for the > > masses - general public. Currently, it translated to individuals - > wanting > > to become KINGS at any cost - i.e. ready buy any remedies or gems > to achieve > > it !! There is no miracle in life or universe. Every miracle > has to > > also follow the same set of principles laid down by nature. What > we cannot > > explain becomes a miracle. Similarly, remedies or gems do not > bring good > > luck. The dasha system of Indian Astrology are the main "delivery > boys" > > combined with "planetary transits" ( vehicles in my own slang ). I > am yet > > to see any person experiencing good when his dasha running is of 6H > or 8H or > > 12H inspite of wearing all kinds of remedies !! Take the casestudy > of Mr. > > Bharat of Hindu Astrology, whose cousin & her mother died of a > medical > > ailment. Do you think that the remedies would have helped > them ?? Karma > > is much higher thing to be "caught" in the gems of remedies !! > > > > India choose her destiny purely on astrological terms, result see > the raise > > of the nation in Venus Mahadasha and see that of Pakistan today. > It speaks > > for itself. Next waiting to come is Sun Mahadasha i.e. 4HL - > education, > > infrastructure, housing activity, family.....all attributes of 4H > will get a > > boost. One's ability to perceive may be limited - as in recent > quiz of > > Mr. Bharat of Hindu Astrology - many were off mark by roughly 2 > years in > > predicting the periods of native death. So the same can told > of "Modern day > > science" or the "economist" who continue to forecast and recast - > their > > entire life with hardly any hit rates. > > > > Inshort, we agree to agree or agree to disagree. That is final > > gentleman's boundary limits. > > > > Sreeram Srinivas > > Sreeram64@ > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 Dear sreenadhji, My pleasure and thankx regards, Kishore patnaik -- In vedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid wrote: > > Dear Kishore patnaik ji, > Don't worry! You and razdan together made it a great point for > discussion, and the essence and points you conveyed are very much > valuable, and as dear Rhoda Reporter said: > > what ever you have written makes good sense and i can relate to it, > > very well................. > Thanks a lot. > Love, > Sreenadh > > > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" > <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote: > > > > I guess my post has been successfully hijacked by mr razdan. But > > certainly, the significance of astrology has precedence over the > > small problem that keeps coming up once in a while in the group. > > > > To start with, let us be very clear on aspect of Astrology-It is > both > > a science and an art. It is as much a science as Physiology and as > > much an art as diagnosing. > > > > If one doctor fails to pin point the physiological problem > > accurately, are we going to say that the medical science has failed? > > > > There is certainly much scientific temper in astrology, atleast in > > those who are pursuding it as a science rather than a tool for > > earning more and more money(dont get me wrong... a scientist who is > > dedicated to his research also earns money through the research... > but > > a doctor who prescribes n number of tests and m number of drugs only > > to earn money may not be even knowing what is happening on the > > reserch front in his field, I hope the point is caught) > > > > If there is no scientific temper in there, the combinations and the > > classics would not have survived the test of time, at least in this > > modern era. > > > > If every thing that has been foretold by the classics is standing > out > > to erratically wrong, then who on earth will go after these > classics? > > we are following classics only because they are giving out > > satisficactory results in our readings of the chart... at least as > > much results as in the reading of ECG charts and MI scans by > > doctors, if not more... > > > > There is no meaning in being apologetic about astrology. AStrology > is > > indeed a science. If one says no, let us only smile at his > ignorance, > > because he is no more foolish than the persons who burnt galeleo at > > the stakes. > > > > Kishore patnaik > > > > > > vedic astrology, "sreeram srinivas" > > <sreeram64@> wrote: > > > > > > Kind Attn : Mr. Razdan > > > > > > Kindly excuse me for "intruding" into a discussion which was > > responding to > > > Mr. Kishore Patnaik....etc.. There are many things which > science > > itself > > > unable to explain yet we try keep correcting our theories and laws > > as we > > > continue in our quest to know the truth. Astrology is no > > exception. This > > > is a great science - when it is in the hands or minds of person > with > > > enlightment, good - in noble person, bad - in average, worse - > > > commercially inclined person. This correlates well to the > science > > also - > > > we have surgeons, murderers, military bombs, mining bombs..etc.. > > > > > > As a son of an person who spent his entire 50+ years of life in > > Indian > > > Archaeology & History, it may be information to you to learn that > > well > > > known astrologers of the day ( in 1946 ) did not want Britishers > to > > declare > > > Indian Independence. They bargained for delayed proclamation. > > i.e. Allow > > > Britishers to leave India in 1947, allow Indians to rule > > themselves, declare > > > Indian Independece in 1950 or so. However, Britishers were > > adamant and had > > > their logics resulting in the known event. Indians choose to > > delay the > > > announcement - 15th Aug. 1947, while Pakistan went ahead -14th > Aug. > > 1947. > > > The delay had many astrological connotations and significations, > > some of > > > them included what you have mentioned in your e-mail. This are > all > > > recorded in history - visit the national archives in New Delhi > > should you be > > > interested in the veracity of this statements. > > > > > > We have this Mr. NoName who is consistently predicting earth > quakes > > based on > > > his Rahu centric astro_techniques, better than the scientists of > > the world. > > > No explanations are required for a normal believer. Similarly > any > > number > > > of explanations would NOT do for UNbeliever. This is experience > > of all. > > > Hence, there is no point in burning our vocal chords or lung power > > in > > > speaking or writing against anything on this subjects. From the > > content of > > > your e-mail, I can infer that you strongly believe in Karma Yoga > > philosophy > > > - believing in doing a service what one perceives right (in > > short ), it > > > would be difficult for a person to appreciate other forms of > > services which > > > are also considered equally high by the scriptures which have also > > laid down > > > few parameters on the moral conduct. > > > > > > Astrology was meant for the Kings, primarily to guide him to do > > good for the > > > masses - general public. Currently, it translated to individuals > - > > wanting > > > to become KINGS at any cost - i.e. ready buy any remedies or gems > > to achieve > > > it !! There is no miracle in life or universe. Every > miracle > > has to > > > also follow the same set of principles laid down by nature. What > > we cannot > > > explain becomes a miracle. Similarly, remedies or gems do not > > bring good > > > luck. The dasha system of Indian Astrology are the main > "delivery > > boys" > > > combined with "planetary transits" ( vehicles in my own slang ). > I > > am yet > > > to see any person experiencing good when his dasha running is of > 6H > > or 8H or > > > 12H inspite of wearing all kinds of remedies !! Take the > casestudy > > of Mr. > > > Bharat of Hindu Astrology, whose cousin & her mother died of a > > medical > > > ailment. Do you think that the remedies would have helped > > them ?? Karma > > > is much higher thing to be "caught" in the gems of remedies !! > > > > > > India choose her destiny purely on astrological terms, result see > > the raise > > > of the nation in Venus Mahadasha and see that of Pakistan today. > > It speaks > > > for itself. Next waiting to come is Sun Mahadasha i.e. 4HL - > > education, > > > infrastructure, housing activity, family.....all attributes of 4H > > will get a > > > boost. One's ability to perceive may be limited - as in recent > > quiz of > > > Mr. Bharat of Hindu Astrology - many were off mark by roughly 2 > > years in > > > predicting the periods of native death. So the same can told > > of "Modern day > > > science" or the "economist" who continue to forecast and recast - > > their > > > entire life with hardly any hit rates. > > > > > > Inshort, we agree to agree or agree to disagree. That is final > > > gentleman's boundary limits. > > > > > > Sreeram Srinivas > > > Sreeram64@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Dear shrinadhji, Thankx for the mail. You have put it very nicely in a nutshell. regards, Kishore patnaik vedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid wrote: > > Dear Kishore ji, > You said: > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to > do > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources > > on this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the > > impression we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously > > to reply their problems that the astrology is just time pass and > > spedning on professional services in astrology is waste of money? > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot. > > I agree with your opinions completely. It is due to such thoughts > that I avoid answering to most of the queries posted on the forum, and > concentrate more on real astrological discussions, encouraging the > learning and teaching experience, and sharing of knowledge, rather > than trying to solve somebody's problem, and wasting time and energy > on it, who themselves may at times will not value it or even may not > bother to read it, and may searching and asking the same questions to > every astrologer they met, and may not even have the knowledge and > ability to assess the capability of the astrologer they are > approaching!!! Why waste time on such people? It is not good. That is > why it is better to concentrate on knowledge sharing in such forums > Then at least we could have an idea from later responses, that who is > resonating to your thoughts and who not. > Thanks for the good mail. > Love, > Sreenadh > > > vedic astrology, "kishore mohan" > <kishorepatnaik09@> wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > I have seen that the people here and in other groups are asking > > sometimes simple and basic questions. It only means they are not > > doing the basic reading themselves and take these forums to be a > > consultancy groups. The very purpose of these groups will be lost if > > such simple questions, answers for which can be found in any of the > > standard text books, are posed. > > > > Recently, one girl has asked me a question. I told her I dont know > > the answer but advised her to read BPHS for basic details and > also, > > asked her to the Centre's archieves for more information. > > > > That girl immediately refused such advises. It is bad that people > > want things on a platter. These groups are here to help people, > beyond > > the self help, not servicing idle curiosity mongers. I dont mean > that > > those who are asking the questions are idle curiosity mongers but in > > case of this girl who did not want to spend time, effort and money > on > > knowledge but wanted it absolutely free of cost seemed to me so. > > > > Second kind of question mongers are those who pose their problems on > > one forum and the learned members will put in their > > knowledge,especially the spiritual energy to reply such questions. > > > > It is obvious that the queriest did not take the remedies suggested > > therin seriously, since with in a short span of time, the same > > question is posed in other forums. > > > > Once I suggested to a person, who was bemoaning > > the "knowledgelessness" of people on these forums to visit a > > professional astrologer of his locality. Immediately he refused to > do > > so, saying that he does not want to waste money on these things. The > > answer has hurt me a lot because personally I have spent lots of > > time, internet charges(I often work on net in a cafe) and energy on > > his question voluntarily. Are we all fools to spend such resources > on > > this kind of idle curiosity mongers? Finally, is this the impression > > we are creating in people whom we are taking seriously to reply > their > > problems that the astrology is just time pass and spedning on > > professional services in astrology is waste of money? > > > > Though I am not a professional astrologer, this has hurt me a lot. > > > > Hence,I requet all the people who pose questions here are to do some > > home work themselves either from books or web surfing, since I am > > sure they have joined here just not for asking questions but to > learn > > something. > > > > And for those who are interested in posing questions for remedies, > > please remember that these are free forums but people who are > > bothering to answer you are doing so, by spedning time, money, > energy > > and spiritual energy. Do ask only those questions for which You > > could not find answers else where. > > > > Hope the advise is taken in the right spirit. > > > > Kishore patnaik > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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