Guest guest Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Dear Shreenadhji: Your views regarding one should move away from merit and sin is the right path for a person engaged in "Nivritti" marga or Sanyasa with moksha as its final goal. For the householder or the normal aspirant who is still in the clutches of karma and is struggling to come into meaningful terms with his existential problems in life, when one is engaged in normal duties of a householder, "Pravritti Dharma" in which merit and Sins have to be taken into account holds good. I am almost sure that nobody engaged in "Nivritti Marga" will be in the web! Because once one enters Nivritti Marga, one should not even touch money.... like Shri Ramakrishna Paramhamsa! Even internet is a commitment which a Sanyasi should avoid or for that matter cannot afford! So, when we are discussing in a forum of pravritti Dharma adherents who are trying to evolve spiritually, the concept of Karma with its associated concepts of Merit and Sin holds good. That is why I think, Pandit Arjun's views on Karma are correct. Blessed be. vedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid> wrote: > > Dear Dakshinamoorthi ji, > I don't agree!!! There is nothing good or bad!! It is the association > of once mind that makes a karma good or bad, not the karma in itself. > That is why Krishna asked Arjuna to do the battle. That is why the > carnivores animals eat the flush of animals, that is why cores of > microcosm are consumed even when we breath!! It is the dharma > (original inner nature)- of animal, plant, or rock- that is important. > One should follow his dharma (orinal inner nature). Geetha advice us > to follow "Swadharma". Yes, I know the sloka that says "Paropakara > Punyaya, Papaya para peedanam", but would like to add that, it is the > association of mind that makes something papa or punya. It is a > general statement, and in the deeper sense there is no papa and no > puna. The path for the seeker of truth is "Punyapunya vivarjitha > pandha' (The path that is away from punya or papa) puts it. I remember > once you yourself pointing to this concept. > Being detached means leaving Truth and sin, leaving punya and papa, > leaving Haven and Hell, leaving any kind of habits, - yes but still > being "here and now" enjoying each moment.......... > The enjoyment books cannot teach us, the enjoyment the soul only > knows.....where time does not exists............ > Sorry...If I interepted your thought flow......... > Love, > Sreenadh > > vedic astrology, "dakshinastrologer" > <dakshinastrologer> wrote: > > > > Dear Shri. Arjun: > > > > Your reply was most appropriate! Infact, I also always give the > same > > example of Prison term and remission of sentences due to good > conduct > > to explain the dynamic nature of Fate. > > > > Blessed be. > > vedic astrology, "panditarjun2004" > > <panditarjun2004> wrote: > > > > > > dear friend renuji > > > > > > even though your query was addressed to respected > dakshinamoorthyji, > > > the question of fixed fate especially future and how far we can > > > change haunts every person till he or she is realised (self > > > realisation). i too faced this query myself hundred times before > > > realisation. > > > > > > let me give you this simple example. all prisoners who are facing > > > punishment for various kinds of offences or crimes in various > jails > > > are given a sentence of one, two or 14 years imprisonment. so > they > > > are fully aware of the FIXED punishment period they shall undergo. > > > > if a prisoner accpets this fact and live like a static rock > without > > > any change, he would complete his full sentence as per the FIXED > > > FATE. if he thinks he can do and undo things on his own and > escape > > > from the prison, chances are he may be get caught only to find his > > > sentence period getting increased. if the prisoner indulge in > wrong > > > deeds and hurt others (para peedanam) then he is subjected to > > > further punishment by removing from the group to solitary > confiement > > > and then consigning him to a dungeon etc. however, if a person > > > keeps faith in god and believes that by doing good deeds and goes > > > extra mile in becoming a better person and do better deeds, he > would > > > be released from the prison soonest. as you may be aware, > > > governors, presidents and kings have the special power which they > > > exercise every year (in all countries) to free thousands of > > > prisoners because of their good behaviour. > > > > > > hope the above clarifies. > > > > > > with best wishes > > > arjun > > > > > > vedic astrology, "renunw" <renunw> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Dakshinamoorthiji > > > > > > > > Thank you very much Sir, and I do not challenge your evolved > > > > knowledge. Sir, this is confusing. Why do you say that Fate is > not > > > a > > > > fixed structure? As a Buddhist we learn that there is a 'cause' > > > for > > > > everything that occurs in one's life. This is 'karma' good/bad > > > which > > > > we have accumilated from out past births. I believe there's > hardly > > > > any difference between Hinduism and Buddhism. And as you say > > > certain > > > > minor bad 'karmas' could be avoided if we lead a good life at > > > present. > > > > > > > > > > > > "If Fate is such > > > > > fixed structure, there is no scope for remedies; If > everything > > > is > > > > > prewritten, what is the incentive for a living being to adhere > > > to > > > > > Dharmic principles? If FAte is such a preordained thing, then > > > > there > > > > > should be no concept of Merit or Sin, because the person who > is > > > > > committing these acts is not responsible for it! Is it not? " > > > > > > > > Sir, I feel that Fate is fixed, but not known to us, on the > basis > > > of > > > > our past deeds and that it self shows that we are responsible > for > > > our > > > > own actions good/bad. It is also our responsiblity to realize > our > > > > past mistakes and thereby learn a lesson and evolve ourselves > step > > > by > > > > step towards spirituality or attain 'nibbana' as Lord Budddha > > > > preached or reach the highest ordination depending on one's > > > religion. > > > > Our birth takes place at a certain time, at a certain place as a > > > > result of our past sins and merits. Thus isn't it sort of > > > prewritten? > > > > > > > > Anyway I totally agree with you regarding the astrological > aspect > > > of > > > > it and you have cleared my vision, no doubt. Future is the most > > > > uncertain thing and no wonder human mind try to find consolation > > > in > > > > astrology in times of trouble. The mere 'hope' given by a > learned > > > > astrologer at such times is like a divine blessing to the > troubled > > > > mind. > > > > > > > > I read and read and find it so difficult to come to a > absoloutely > > > > clear conclusion. I thought I had not grasped the subject > properly > > > [ > > > > I do know I have estremely little knowledge on this subject], > and > > > > wonder why I cannot give a correct analysis. When my friends ask > a > > > > question and when I cannot give the exact answer I feel I a not > > > > competent enough to study astrology. I do not want to give a > wrong > > > > answer. Well, Sir, you have taken a load off my soulder and > thank > > > you > > > > very much once again. > > > > > > > > Blessings > > > > > > > > Renu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "dakshinastrologer" > > > > <dakshinastrologer> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Renuji: > > > > > > > > > > You are quite right! There is a saying: > > > > > > > > > > "Those who know astrology can only indicate in a way what will > > > take > > > > > place in future. Who else, except the Creator Brahma, can say > > > with > > > > > certainty what will definitely happen?" > > > > > > > > > > Astrology is not designed to be an ABSOLUTE subject. If Fate > is > > > > such > > > > > fixed structure, there is no scope for remedies; If > everything > > > is > > > > > prewritten, what is the incentive for a living being to adhere > > > to > > > > > Dharmic principles? If FAte is such a preordained thing, then > > > > there > > > > > should be no concept of Merit or Sin, because the person who > is > > > > > committing these acts is not responsible for it! Is it not? > > > > > > > > > > On the contrary, planets impel... they do not compel....We are > > > > > presented with circumstances that are compatible with our > karma; > > > > the > > > > > choices that we make regarding our actions in those > > > circumstances > > > > > cause alterations in the course of our fate. > > > > > > > > > > Minor events in life will always be subject to changed > > > influences > > > > > arising out of karma accumulated in this birth. But, an > expert > > > > > astrologer should be able to predict the broad outlines with a > > > > > respectable degree of accuracy. For instance, the horoscopes > of > > > > Great > > > > > Leaders, intellectuals, spiritual Heads or Heads of State will > > > > > definitely show such high promise. In the case of other > > > persons, > > > > the > > > > > role of astrologer is not to predict the course but to suggest > > > the > > > > > best possible course, as the natal influences can be modified > to > > > > some > > > > > extent with appropriate choices and remedies. > > > > > > > > > > Magazines are designed to generate interest among the readers > > > and > > > > > journalistic considerations rather than astrological ethics > > > govern > > > > > most journals as far as my experience with them indicates. > Most > > > > > astrological magazines often indulge in sensational > predictions > > > and > > > > > brilliant post-event analyses which feed the curiousity of > their > > > > > astrologically interested readers. We should be content with > > > their > > > > > educational value in throwing light on the astrological > > > principles. > > > > > > > > > > Predictions come true ONLY WITH VAK-PHALITHA (the gift of > > > prophesy > > > > due > > > > > to which his predictions can come true). Anybody learning > > > > astrology > > > > > can interpret.... But predictive accuracy is a hard thing to > > > > acquire > > > > > which is obtained only by sincerity of motives and God's Grace > > > > > obtained through a flawless living. The predictive accuracy > > > > differs > > > > > widely from person to person. > > > > > > > > > > Blessed be. > > > > > > > > > > gy, "renunw" <renunw> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gurujis, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have come to the conclusion that mostly what I read in > > > > astrology > > > > > > books , articles etc. are interpretations. This is not a > > > > difficult > > > > > task > > > > > > once the past event is known. If one knows the theory behind > > > and > > > > is > > > > > > intelligent enough, one can interprit the cause of a past > > > event > > > > with > > > > > > 100% accuracy. But it is very sad that most fail to give > > > > predictions > > > > > as > > > > > > to the future events correctly. > > > > > > > > > > > > Blessings > > > > > > > > > > > > Renu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Dear Dakshinamoorthi ji, Again i would disagree on certain points, and agree on others. > I am almost sure that nobody engaged in "Nivritti Marga" will be in > the web! Can't be that sure, since every bodisatwas (who is also interested in spreading the knowledge after attaining revelation) needs some way of communication. He may love internet!! We can not be sure in such things. > Because once one enters Nivritti Marga, one should not even > touch money.... like Shri Ramakrishna Paramhamsa! Here also I am not sure whether this opinion is correct. Rama was a king, Krishna was a King, Jenaka was a king. All of them realized persons - till death they were wealthy people and dealt with money, though it never corrupted them. Osho, Krinshnamoorthi, Ramana Maharshi, Crist, Socratees, Lavothse every one of them had revelation but none of them were afraid of money, except Ramakrishna paramahamsa who was also a person with revelation and was a great guru. > Even internet is a commitment which a Sanyasi should avoid > for that matter cannot afford! They are doing it or not they only knows, and we cannot apply tabu on them. Ok. I am a person following my inner sense and never categorized it as previrithi marga or nivirthi marga. The true statement "All classifications are wrong", holds good in this situation as well. We are classifying margas just for our understanding, which is not relevant for a person who is "in the" marga. He could see only one marga that his should clearly sees, that is the marga he should follow, the marga that gets reflected in his dharma. Dear Guruji, we should leave this subject and move on to astrology, as upasana padhas may differ, and the difference of opinion may produce hot arguments among the members, which is not at useful or relevant in the truly following the soul. Love, Sreenadh vedic astrology, "dakshinastrologer" <dakshinastrologer> wrote: > > Dear Shreenadhji: > > Your views regarding one should move away from merit and sin is the > right path for a person engaged in "Nivritti" marga or Sanyasa with > moksha as its final goal. For the householder or the normal aspirant > who is still in the clutches of karma and is struggling to come into > meaningful terms with his existential problems in life, when one is > engaged in normal duties of a householder, "Pravritti Dharma" in which > merit and Sins have to be taken into account holds good. > > I am almost sure that nobody engaged in "Nivritti Marga" will be in > the web! Because once one enters Nivritti Marga, one should not even > touch money.... like Shri Ramakrishna Paramhamsa! Even internet is a > commitment which a Sanyasi should avoid or for that matter cannot > afford! So, when we are discussing in a forum of pravritti Dharma > adherents who are trying to evolve spiritually, the concept of Karma > with its associated concepts of Merit and Sin holds good. > > That is why I think, Pandit Arjun's views on Karma are correct. > > Blessed be. > > vedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid> > wrote: > > > > Dear Dakshinamoorthi ji, > > I don't agree!!! There is nothing good or bad!! It is the > association > > of once mind that makes a karma good or bad, not the karma in > itself. > > That is why Krishna asked Arjuna to do the battle. That is why the > > carnivores animals eat the flush of animals, that is why cores of > > microcosm are consumed even when we breath!! It is the dharma > > (original inner nature)- of animal, plant, or rock- that is > important. > > One should follow his dharma (orinal inner nature). Geetha advice us > > to follow "Swadharma". Yes, I know the sloka that says "Paropakara > > Punyaya, Papaya para peedanam", but would like to add that, it is > the > > association of mind that makes something papa or punya. It is a > > general statement, and in the deeper sense there is no papa and no > > puna. The path for the seeker of truth is "Punyapunya vivarjitha > > pandha' (The path that is away from punya or papa) puts it. I > remember > > once you yourself pointing to this concept. > > Being detached means leaving Truth and sin, leaving punya and papa, > > leaving Haven and Hell, leaving any kind of habits, - yes but still > > being "here and now" enjoying each moment.......... > > The enjoyment books cannot teach us, the enjoyment the soul only > > knows.....where time does not exists............ > > Sorry...If I interepted your thought flow......... > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > vedic astrology, "dakshinastrologer" > > <dakshinastrologer> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Shri. Arjun: > > > > > > Your reply was most appropriate! Infact, I also always give the > > same > > > example of Prison term and remission of sentences due to good > > conduct > > > to explain the dynamic nature of Fate. > > > > > > Blessed be. > > > vedic astrology, "panditarjun2004" > > > <panditarjun2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > dear friend renuji > > > > > > > > even though your query was addressed to respected > > dakshinamoorthyji, > > > > the question of fixed fate especially future and how far we can > > > > change haunts every person till he or she is realised (self > > > > realisation). i too faced this query myself hundred times > before > > > > realisation. > > > > > > > > let me give you this simple example. all prisoners who are > facing > > > > punishment for various kinds of offences or crimes in various > > jails > > > > are given a sentence of one, two or 14 years imprisonment. so > > they > > > > are fully aware of the FIXED punishment period they shall > undergo. > > > > > > if a prisoner accpets this fact and live like a static rock > > without > > > > any change, he would complete his full sentence as per the FIXED > > > > FATE. if he thinks he can do and undo things on his own and > > escape > > > > from the prison, chances are he may be get caught only to find > his > > > > sentence period getting increased. if the prisoner indulge in > > wrong > > > > deeds and hurt others (para peedanam) then he is subjected to > > > > further punishment by removing from the group to solitary > > confiement > > > > and then consigning him to a dungeon etc. however, if a person > > > > keeps faith in god and believes that by doing good deeds and > goes > > > > extra mile in becoming a better person and do better deeds, he > > would > > > > be released from the prison soonest. as you may be aware, > > > > governors, presidents and kings have the special power which > they > > > > exercise every year (in all countries) to free thousands of > > > > prisoners because of their good behaviour. > > > > > > > > hope the above clarifies. > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "renunw" <renunw> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Dakshinamoorthiji > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much Sir, and I do not challenge your evolved > > > > > knowledge. Sir, this is confusing. Why do you say that Fate is > > not > > > > a > > > > > fixed structure? As a Buddhist we learn that there is a > 'cause' > > > > for > > > > > everything that occurs in one's life. This is 'karma' good/ bad > > > > which > > > > > we have accumilated from out past births. I believe there's > > hardly > > > > > any difference between Hinduism and Buddhism. And as you say > > > > certain > > > > > minor bad 'karmas' could be avoided if we lead a good life at > > > > present. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "If Fate is such > > > > > > fixed structure, there is no scope for remedies; If > > everything > > > > is > > > > > > prewritten, what is the incentive for a living being to > adhere > > > > to > > > > > > Dharmic principles? If FAte is such a preordained thing, > then > > > > > there > > > > > > should be no concept of Merit or Sin, because the person who > > is > > > > > > committing these acts is not responsible for it! Is it not? > " > > > > > > > > > > Sir, I feel that Fate is fixed, but not known to us, on the > > basis > > > > of > > > > > our past deeds and that it self shows that we are responsible > > for > > > > our > > > > > own actions good/bad. It is also our responsiblity to realize > > our > > > > > past mistakes and thereby learn a lesson and evolve ourselves > > step > > > > by > > > > > step towards spirituality or attain 'nibbana' as Lord Budddha > > > > > preached or reach the highest ordination depending on one's > > > > religion. > > > > > Our birth takes place at a certain time, at a certain place as > a > > > > > result of our past sins and merits. Thus isn't it sort of > > > > prewritten? > > > > > > > > > > Anyway I totally agree with you regarding the astrological > > aspect > > > > of > > > > > it and you have cleared my vision, no doubt. Future is the > most > > > > > uncertain thing and no wonder human mind try to find > consolation > > > > in > > > > > astrology in times of trouble. The mere 'hope' given by a > > learned > > > > > astrologer at such times is like a divine blessing to the > > troubled > > > > > mind. > > > > > > > > > > I read and read and find it so difficult to come to a > > absoloutely > > > > > clear conclusion. I thought I had not grasped the subject > > properly > > > > [ > > > > > I do know I have estremely little knowledge on this subject ], > > and > > > > > wonder why I cannot give a correct analysis. When my friends > ask > > a > > > > > question and when I cannot give the exact answer I feel I a > not > > > > > competent enough to study astrology. I do not want to give a > > wrong > > > > > answer. Well, Sir, you have taken a load off my soulder and > > thank > > > > you > > > > > very much once again. > > > > > > > > > > Blessings > > > > > > > > > > Renu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "dakshinastrologer" > > > > > <dakshinastrologer> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Renuji: > > > > > > > > > > > > You are quite right! There is a saying: > > > > > > > > > > > > "Those who know astrology can only indicate in a way what > will > > > > take > > > > > > place in future. Who else, except the Creator Brahma, can > say > > > > with > > > > > > certainty what will definitely happen?" > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology is not designed to be an ABSOLUTE subject. If > Fate > > is > > > > > such > > > > > > fixed structure, there is no scope for remedies; If > > everything > > > > is > > > > > > prewritten, what is the incentive for a living being to > adhere > > > > to > > > > > > Dharmic principles? If FAte is such a preordained thing, > then > > > > > there > > > > > > should be no concept of Merit or Sin, because the person who > > is > > > > > > committing these acts is not responsible for it! Is it not? > > > > > > > > > > > > On the contrary, planets impel... they do not compel....We > are > > > > > > presented with circumstances that are compatible with our > > karma; > > > > > the > > > > > > choices that we make regarding our actions in those > > > > circumstances > > > > > > cause alterations in the course of our fate. > > > > > > > > > > > > Minor events in life will always be subject to changed > > > > influences > > > > > > arising out of karma accumulated in this birth. But, an > > expert > > > > > > astrologer should be able to predict the broad outlines with > a > > > > > > respectable degree of accuracy. For instance, the > horoscopes > > of > > > > > Great > > > > > > Leaders, intellectuals, spiritual Heads or Heads of State > will > > > > > > definitely show such high promise. In the case of other > > > > persons, > > > > > the > > > > > > role of astrologer is not to predict the course but to > suggest > > > > the > > > > > > best possible course, as the natal influences can be > modified > > to > > > > > some > > > > > > extent with appropriate choices and remedies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Magazines are designed to generate interest among the > readers > > > > and > > > > > > journalistic considerations rather than astrological ethics > > > > govern > > > > > > most journals as far as my experience with them indicates. > > Most > > > > > > astrological magazines often indulge in sensational > > predictions > > > > and > > > > > > brilliant post-event analyses which feed the curiousity of > > their > > > > > > astrologically interested readers. We should be content > with > > > > their > > > > > > educational value in throwing light on the astrological > > > > principles. > > > > > > > > > > > > Predictions come true ONLY WITH VAK-PHALITHA (the gift of > > > > prophesy > > > > > due > > > > > > to which his predictions can come true). Anybody learning > > > > > astrology > > > > > > can interpret.... But predictive accuracy is a hard thing to > > > > > acquire > > > > > > which is obtained only by sincerity of motives and God's > Grace > > > > > > obtained through a flawless living. The predictive accuracy > > > > > differs > > > > > > widely from person to person. > > > > > > > > > > > > Blessed be. > > > > > > > > > > > > gy, "renunw" <renunw> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gurujis, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have come to the conclusion that mostly what I read in > > > > > astrology > > > > > > > books , articles etc. are interpretations. This is not a > > > > > difficult > > > > > > task > > > > > > > once the past event is known. If one knows the theory > behind > > > > and > > > > > is > > > > > > > intelligent enough, one can interprit the cause of a past > > > > event > > > > > with > > > > > > > 100% accuracy. But it is very sad that most fail to give > > > > > predictions > > > > > > as > > > > > > > to the future events correctly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blessings > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Renu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Respected dakshinamoorti ji your enlightening words on karma made me felt and touched reminiscent of my own gurus. after self purification, self realisation, god realisation and wandering in the himalayas (in the nivritti marga as you mentioned), my guruji told me as follows: "look son, by doing nothing and detached from everything you have easily attained these. but you forgot the duty of your very existence. paropakarartham idam sariram (this body is meant to do good to others). even your name is meant for use by thers. so go back to the city and serve the suffering in your limited capacity" guruji, so we, in the manifestation of astrologers and healers, are doing the same service in our own ways. please continue guiding us on the right path with your words of wisdom off and on. with best wishes and regards arjun vedic astrology, "dakshinastrologer" <dakshinastrologer> wrote: > > Dear Shreenadhji: > > Your views regarding one should move away from merit and sin is the > right path for a person engaged in "Nivritti" marga or Sanyasa with > moksha as its final goal. For the householder or the normal aspirant > who is still in the clutches of karma and is struggling to come into > meaningful terms with his existential problems in life, when one is > engaged in normal duties of a householder, "Pravritti Dharma" in which > merit and Sins have to be taken into account holds good. > > I am almost sure that nobody engaged in "Nivritti Marga" will be in > the web! Because once one enters Nivritti Marga, one should not even > touch money.... like Shri Ramakrishna Paramhamsa! Even internet is a > commitment which a Sanyasi should avoid or for that matter cannot > afford! So, when we are discussing in a forum of pravritti Dharma > adherents who are trying to evolve spiritually, the concept of Karma > with its associated concepts of Merit and Sin holds good. > > That is why I think, Pandit Arjun's views on Karma are correct. > > Blessed be. > > vedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid> > wrote: > > > > Dear Dakshinamoorthi ji, > > I don't agree!!! There is nothing good or bad!! It is the > association > > of once mind that makes a karma good or bad, not the karma in > itself. > > That is why Krishna asked Arjuna to do the battle. That is why the > > carnivores animals eat the flush of animals, that is why cores of > > microcosm are consumed even when we breath!! It is the dharma > > (original inner nature)- of animal, plant, or rock- that is > important. > > One should follow his dharma (orinal inner nature). Geetha advice us > > to follow "Swadharma". Yes, I know the sloka that says "Paropakara > > Punyaya, Papaya para peedanam", but would like to add that, it is > the > > association of mind that makes something papa or punya. It is a > > general statement, and in the deeper sense there is no papa and no > > puna. The path for the seeker of truth is "Punyapunya vivarjitha > > pandha' (The path that is away from punya or papa) puts it. I > remember > > once you yourself pointing to this concept. > > Being detached means leaving Truth and sin, leaving punya and papa, > > leaving Haven and Hell, leaving any kind of habits, - yes but still > > being "here and now" enjoying each moment.......... > > The enjoyment books cannot teach us, the enjoyment the soul only > > knows.....where time does not exists............ > > Sorry...If I interepted your thought flow......... > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > vedic astrology, "dakshinastrologer" > > <dakshinastrologer> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Shri. Arjun: > > > > > > Your reply was most appropriate! Infact, I also always give the > > same > > > example of Prison term and remission of sentences due to good > > conduct > > > to explain the dynamic nature of Fate. > > > > > > Blessed be. > > > vedic astrology, "panditarjun2004" > > > <panditarjun2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > dear friend renuji > > > > > > > > even though your query was addressed to respected > > dakshinamoorthyji, > > > > the question of fixed fate especially future and how far we can > > > > change haunts every person till he or she is realised (self > > > > realisation). i too faced this query myself hundred times > before > > > > realisation. > > > > > > > > let me give you this simple example. all prisoners who are > facing > > > > punishment for various kinds of offences or crimes in various > > jails > > > > are given a sentence of one, two or 14 years imprisonment. so > > they > > > > are fully aware of the FIXED punishment period they shall > undergo. > > > > > > if a prisoner accpets this fact and live like a static rock > > without > > > > any change, he would complete his full sentence as per the FIXED > > > > FATE. if he thinks he can do and undo things on his own and > > escape > > > > from the prison, chances are he may be get caught only to find > his > > > > sentence period getting increased. if the prisoner indulge in > > wrong > > > > deeds and hurt others (para peedanam) then he is subjected to > > > > further punishment by removing from the group to solitary > > confiement > > > > and then consigning him to a dungeon etc. however, if a person > > > > keeps faith in god and believes that by doing good deeds and > goes > > > > extra mile in becoming a better person and do better deeds, he > > would > > > > be released from the prison soonest. as you may be aware, > > > > governors, presidents and kings have the special power which > they > > > > exercise every year (in all countries) to free thousands of > > > > prisoners because of their good behaviour. > > > > > > > > hope the above clarifies. > > > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > arjun > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "renunw" <renunw> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Dakshinamoorthiji > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much Sir, and I do not challenge your evolved > > > > > knowledge. Sir, this is confusing. Why do you say that Fate is > > not > > > > a > > > > > fixed structure? As a Buddhist we learn that there is a > 'cause' > > > > for > > > > > everything that occurs in one's life. This is 'karma' good/bad > > > > which > > > > > we have accumilated from out past births. I believe there's > > hardly > > > > > any difference between Hinduism and Buddhism. And as you say > > > > certain > > > > > minor bad 'karmas' could be avoided if we lead a good life at > > > > present. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "If Fate is such > > > > > > fixed structure, there is no scope for remedies; If > > everything > > > > is > > > > > > prewritten, what is the incentive for a living being to > adhere > > > > to > > > > > > Dharmic principles? If FAte is such a preordained thing, > then > > > > > there > > > > > > should be no concept of Merit or Sin, because the person who > > is > > > > > > committing these acts is not responsible for it! Is it not? > " > > > > > > > > > > Sir, I feel that Fate is fixed, but not known to us, on the > > basis > > > > of > > > > > our past deeds and that it self shows that we are responsible > > for > > > > our > > > > > own actions good/bad. It is also our responsiblity to realize > > our > > > > > past mistakes and thereby learn a lesson and evolve ourselves > > step > > > > by > > > > > step towards spirituality or attain 'nibbana' as Lord Budddha > > > > > preached or reach the highest ordination depending on one's > > > > religion. > > > > > Our birth takes place at a certain time, at a certain place as > a > > > > > result of our past sins and merits. Thus isn't it sort of > > > > prewritten? > > > > > > > > > > Anyway I totally agree with you regarding the astrological > > aspect > > > > of > > > > > it and you have cleared my vision, no doubt. Future is the > most > > > > > uncertain thing and no wonder human mind try to find > consolation > > > > in > > > > > astrology in times of trouble. The mere 'hope' given by a > > learned > > > > > astrologer at such times is like a divine blessing to the > > troubled > > > > > mind. > > > > > > > > > > I read and read and find it so difficult to come to a > > absoloutely > > > > > clear conclusion. I thought I had not grasped the subject > > properly > > > > [ > > > > > I do know I have estremely little knowledge on this subject], > > and > > > > > wonder why I cannot give a correct analysis. When my friends > ask > > a > > > > > question and when I cannot give the exact answer I feel I a > not > > > > > competent enough to study astrology. I do not want to give a > > wrong > > > > > answer. Well, Sir, you have taken a load off my soulder and > > thank > > > > you > > > > > very much once again. > > > > > > > > > > Blessings > > > > > > > > > > Renu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic- astrology, "dakshinastrologer" > > > > > <dakshinastrologer> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Renuji: > > > > > > > > > > > > You are quite right! There is a saying: > > > > > > > > > > > > "Those who know astrology can only indicate in a way what > will > > > > take > > > > > > place in future. Who else, except the Creator Brahma, can > say > > > > with > > > > > > certainty what will definitely happen?" > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology is not designed to be an ABSOLUTE subject. If > Fate > > is > > > > > such > > > > > > fixed structure, there is no scope for remedies; If > > everything > > > > is > > > > > > prewritten, what is the incentive for a living being to > adhere > > > > to > > > > > > Dharmic principles? If FAte is such a preordained thing, > then > > > > > there > > > > > > should be no concept of Merit or Sin, because the person who > > is > > > > > > committing these acts is not responsible for it! Is it not? > > > > > > > > > > > > On the contrary, planets impel... they do not compel....We > are > > > > > > presented with circumstances that are compatible with our > > karma; > > > > > the > > > > > > choices that we make regarding our actions in those > > > > circumstances > > > > > > cause alterations in the course of our fate. > > > > > > > > > > > > Minor events in life will always be subject to changed > > > > influences > > > > > > arising out of karma accumulated in this birth. But, an > > expert > > > > > > astrologer should be able to predict the broad outlines with > a > > > > > > respectable degree of accuracy. For instance, the > horoscopes > > of > > > > > Great > > > > > > Leaders, intellectuals, spiritual Heads or Heads of State > will > > > > > > definitely show such high promise. In the case of other > > > > persons, > > > > > the > > > > > > role of astrologer is not to predict the course but to > suggest > > > > the > > > > > > best possible course, as the natal influences can be > modified > > to > > > > > some > > > > > > extent with appropriate choices and remedies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Magazines are designed to generate interest among the > readers > > > > and > > > > > > journalistic considerations rather than astrological ethics > > > > govern > > > > > > most journals as far as my experience with them indicates. > > Most > > > > > > astrological magazines often indulge in sensational > > predictions > > > > and > > > > > > brilliant post-event analyses which feed the curiousity of > > their > > > > > > astrologically interested readers. We should be content > with > > > > their > > > > > > educational value in throwing light on the astrological > > > > principles. > > > > > > > > > > > > Predictions come true ONLY WITH VAK-PHALITHA (the gift of > > > > prophesy > > > > > due > > > > > > to which his predictions can come true). Anybody learning > > > > > astrology > > > > > > can interpret.... But predictive accuracy is a hard thing to > > > > > acquire > > > > > > which is obtained only by sincerity of motives and God's > Grace > > > > > > obtained through a flawless living. The predictive accuracy > > > > > differs > > > > > > widely from person to person. > > > > > > > > > > > > Blessed be. > > > > > > > > > > > > gy, "renunw" <renunw> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Gurujis, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have come to the conclusion that mostly what I read in > > > > > astrology > > > > > > > books , articles etc. are interpretations. This is not a > > > > > difficult > > > > > > task > > > > > > > once the past event is known. If one knows the theory > behind > > > > and > > > > > is > > > > > > > intelligent enough, one can interprit the cause of a past > > > > event > > > > > with > > > > > > > 100% accuracy. But it is very sad that most fail to give > > > > > predictions > > > > > > as > > > > > > > to the future events correctly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blessings > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Renu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 reminiscent of my own gurus.after self purification, self realisation, god realisation and wandering in the himalayas (in the nivritti marga as you mentioned), my guruji told me as follows:"look son, by doing nothing and detached from everything you have easily attained these. but you forgot the duty of your very existence. paropakarartham idam sariram (this body is meant to do good to others). even your name is meant for use by thers. so go back to the city and serve the suffering in your limited capacity"guruji, so we, in the manifestation of astrologers and healers, are doing the same service in our own ways. please continue guiding us on the right path with your words of wisdom off and on.with best wishes and regardsarjun--- In vedic astrology, "dakshinastrologer" <dakshinastrologer> wrote:>> Dear Shreenadhji:> > Your views regarding one should move away from merit and sin is the > right path for a person engaged in "Nivritti" marga or Sanyasa with > moksha as its final goal. For the householder or the normal aspirant > who is still in the clutches of karma and is struggling to come into > meaningful terms with his existential problems in life, when one is > engaged in normal duties of a householder, "Pravritti Dharma" in which > merit and Sins have to be taken into account holds good.> > I am almost sure that nobody engaged in "Nivritti Marga" will be in > the web! Because once one enters Nivritti Marga, one should not even > touch money.... like Shri Ramakrishna Paramhamsa! Even internet is a > commitment which a Sanyasi should avoid or for that matter cannot > afford! So, when we are discussing in a forum of pravritti Dharma > adherents who are trying to evolve spiritually, the concept of Karma > with its associated concepts of Merit and Sin holds good.> > That is why I think, Pandit Arjun's views on Karma are correct.> > Blessed be.> > --- In vedic astrology, "Sreenadh" <sreelid> > wrote:> >> > Dear Dakshinamoorthi ji,> > I don't agree!!! There is nothing good or bad!! It is the > association > > of once mind that makes a karma good or bad, not the karma in > itself. > > That is why Krishna asked Arjuna to do the battle. That is why the > > carnivores animals eat the flush of animals, that is why cores of > > microcosm are consumed even when we breath!! It is the dharma > > (original inner nature)- of animal, plant, or rock- that is > important. > > One should follow his dharma (orinal inner nature). Geetha advice us > > to follow "Swadharma". Yes, I know the sloka that says "Paropakara > > Punyaya, Papaya para peedanam", but would like to add that, it is > the > > association of mind that makes something papa or punya. It is a > > general statement, and in the deeper sense there is no papa and no > > puna. The path for the seeker of truth is "Punyapunya vivarjitha > > pandha' (The path that is away from punya or papa) puts it. I > remember > > once you yourself pointing to this concept.> > Being detached means leaving Truth and sin, leaving punya and papa, > > leaving Haven and Hell, leaving any kind of habits, - yes but still > > being "here and now" enjoying each moment..........> > The enjoyment books cannot teach us, the enjoyment the soul only > > knows.....where time does not exists............> > Sorry...If I interepted your thought flow.........> > Love,> > Sreenadh> > > > vedic astrology, "dakshinastrologer" > > <dakshinastrologer> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Shri. Arjun:> > > > > > Your reply was most appropriate! Infact, I also always give the > > same > > > example of Prison term and remission of sentences due to good > > conduct > > > to explain the dynamic nature of Fate.> > > > > > Blessed be.> > > vedic astrology, "panditarjun2004" > > > <panditarjun2004> wrote:> > > >> > > > dear friend renuji> > > > > > > > even though your query was addressed to respected > > dakshinamoorthyji, > > > > the question of fixed fate especially future and how far we can > > > > change haunts every person till he or she is realised (self > > > > realisation). i too faced this query myself hundred times > before > > > > realisation.> > > > > > > > let me give you this simple example. all prisoners who are > facing > > > > punishment for various kinds of offences or crimes in various > > jails > > > > are given a sentence of one, two or 14 years imprisonment. so > > they > > > > are fully aware of the FIXED punishment period they shall > undergo. > > > > > > if a prisoner accpets this fact and live like a static rock > > without > > > > any change, he would complete his full sentence as per the FIXED > > > > FATE. if he thinks he can do and undo things on his own and > > escape > > > > from the prison, chances are he may be get caught only to find > his > > > > sentence period getting increased. if the prisoner indulge in > > wrong > > > > deeds and hurt others (para peedanam) then he is subjected to > > > > further punishment by removing from the group to solitary > > confiement > > > > and then consigning him to a dungeon etc. however, if a person > > > > keeps faith in god and believes that by doing good deeds and > goes > > > > extra mile in becoming a better person and do better deeds, he > > would > > > > be released from the prison soonest. as you may be aware, > > > > governors, presidents and kings have the special power which > they > > > > exercise every year (in all countries) to free thousands of > > > > prisoners because of their good behaviour.> > > > > > > > hope the above clarifies.> > > > > > > > with best wishes> > > > arjun> > > > > > > > --- In vedic astrology, "renunw" <renunw> > > > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Dakshinamoorthiji> > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much Sir, and I do not challenge your evolved > > > > > knowledge. Sir, this is confusing. Why do you say that Fate is > > not > > > > a > > > > > fixed structure? As a Buddhist we learn that there is a > 'cause' > > > > for > > > > > everything that occurs in one's life. This is 'karma' good/bad > > > > which > > > > > we have accumilated from out past births. I believe there's > > hardly > > > > > any difference between Hinduism and Buddhism. And as you say > > > > certain > > > > > minor bad 'karmas' could be avoided if we lead a good life at > > > > present.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "If Fate is such > > > > > > fixed structure, there is no scope for remedies; If > > everything > > > > is > > > > > > prewritten, what is the incentive for a living being to > adhere > > > > to > > > > > > Dharmic principles? If FAte is such a preordained thing, > then > > > > > there > > > > > > should be no concept of Merit or Sin, because the person who > > is > > > > > > committing these acts is not responsible for it! Is it not?> "> > > > > > > > > > Sir, I feel that Fate is fixed, but not known to us, on the > > basis > > > > of > > > > > our past deeds and that it self shows that we are responsible > > for > > > > our > > > > > own actions good/bad. It is also our responsiblity to realize > > our > > > > > past mistakes and thereby learn a lesson and evolve ourselves > > step > > > > by > > > > > step towards spirituality or attain 'nibbana' as Lord Budddha > > > > > preached or reach the highest ordination depending on one's > > > > religion. > > > > > Our birth takes place at a certain time, at a certain place as > a > > > > > result of our past sins and merits. Thus isn't it sort of > > > > prewritten?> > > > > > > > > > Anyway I totally agree with you regarding the astrological > > aspect > > > > of > > > > > it and you have cleared my vision, no doubt. Future is the > most > > > > > uncertain thing and no wonder human mind try to find > consolation > > > > in > > > > > astrology in times of trouble. The mere 'hope' given by a > > learned > > > > > astrologer at such times is like a divine blessing to the > > troubled > > > > > mind. > > > > > > > > > > I read and read and find it so difficult to come to a > > absoloutely > > > > > clear conclusion. I thought I had not grasped the subject > > properly > > > > [ > > > > > I do know I have estremely little knowledge on this subject], > > and > > > > > wonder why I cannot give a correct analysis. When my friends > ask > > a > > > > > question and when I cannot give the exact answer I feel I a > not > > > > > competent enough to study astrology. I do not want to give a > > wrong > > > > > answer. Well, Sir, you have taken a load off my soulder and > > thank > > > > you > > > > > very much once again.> > > > > > > > > > Blessings> > > > > > > > > > Renu> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In vedic astrology, "dakshinastrologer" > > > > > <dakshinastrologer> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Renuji:> > > > > > > > > > > > You are quite right! There is a saying:> > > > > > > > > > > > "Those who know astrology can only indicate in a way what > will > > > > take > > > > > > place in future. Who else, except the Creator Brahma, can > say > > > > with > > > > > > certainty what will definitely happen?"> > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology is not designed to be an ABSOLUTE subject. If > Fate > > is > > > > > such > > > > > > fixed structure, there is no scope for remedies; If > > everything > > > > is > > > > > > prewritten, what is the incentive for a living being to > adhere > > > > to > > > > > > Dharmic principles? If FAte is such a preordained thing, > then > > > > > there > > > > > > should be no concept of Merit or Sin, because the person who > > is > > > > > > committing these acts is not responsible for it! Is it not?> > > > > > > > > > > > On the contrary, planets impel... they do not compel....We > are > > > > > > presented with circumstances that are compatible with our > > karma; > > > > > the > > > > > > choices that we make regarding our actions in those > > > > circumstances > > > > > > cause alterations in the course of our fate.> > > > > > > > > > > > Minor events in life will always be subject to changed > > > > influences > > > > > > arising out of karma accumulated in this birth. But, an > > expert > > > > > > astrologer should be able to predict the broad outlines with > a > > > > > > respectable degree of accuracy. For instance, the > horoscopes > > of > > > > > Great > > > > > > Leaders, intellectuals, spiritual Heads or Heads of State > will > > > > > > definitely show such high promise. In the case of other > > > > persons, > > > > > the > > > > > > role of astrologer is not to predict the course but to > suggest > > > > the > > > > > > best possible course, as the natal influences can be > modified > > to > > > > > some > > > > > > extent with appropriate choices and remedies.> > > > > > > > > > > > Magazines are designed to generate interest among the > readers > > > > and > > > > > > journalistic considerations rather than astrological ethics > > > > govern > > > > > > most journals as far as my experience with them indicates. > > Most > > > > > > astrological magazines often indulge in sensational > > predictions > > > > and > > > > > > brilliant post-event analyses which feed the curiousity of > > their > > > > > > astrologically interested readers. We should be content > with > > > > their > > > > > > educational value in throwing light on the astrological > > > > principles.> > > > > > > > > > > > Predictions come true ONLY WITH VAK-PHALITHA (the gift of > > > > prophesy > > > > > due > > > > > > to which his predictions can come true). Anybody learning > > > > > astrology > > > > > > can interpret.... But predictive accuracy is a hard thing to > > > > > acquire > > > > > > which is obtained only by sincerity of motives and God's > Grace > > > > > > obtained through a flawless living. The predictive accuracy > > > > > differs > > > > > > widely from person to person.> > > > > > > > > > > > Blessed be.> > > > > > > > > > > > gy, "renunw" <renunw> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Gurujis,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have come to the conclusion that mostly what I read in > > > > > astrology > > > > > > > books , articles etc. are interpretations. This is not a > > > > > difficult > > > > > > task > > > > > > > once the past event is known. If one knows the theory > behind > > > > and > > > > > is > > > > > > > intelligent enough, one can interprit the cause of a past > > > > event > > > > > with > > > > > > > 100% accuracy. But it is very sad that most fail to give > > > > > predictions > > > > > > as > > > > > > > to the future events correctly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blessings> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Renu> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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