RE: Nothing Vedic or even Hindu about Vedic astrology (to Mohan ji)

November 4, 2005

Dear Mohan ji,

(This mail is a continuation of my previous mail to you)

You asked:

> the first thing I would like to know is how you

> have arrived at the conclusions that Parashara Samhita

> is of 1500 BCE.

The following is my answer to that question:

================================ (Start of article)

Period of Parasara

---------------------

When Parasara, the author of Parasara Sidhantha, Parasara Samhitha and

Parasara Hora lived? Is it near to Mahabharatha period, which as per

some scholars is near to BC. 3100?

Or are these texts are written by some Parasara of the Parasara Kula

of later age?

It is a known fact that this Parasara is the son of the Rishi called

Sakthi who was also a well known person who wrote texts related to

Astrology. There is a sloka in Parasara Samhita (quoted in the Vyakhya

of Varaha Hora by Bhattolpala), which helps us in determining the

period of Parasara, the author of BPHS. The sloka is quoted below:

Srevishtadyath poushnantham charatha sisiraH

VasanthaH poushnanthyath rohinyantham

Soumyadyath sarpardham greeshmaH

Pravid sarpardhath dhasthantham

Chithradyath indrardham sarth

Hemantho Jyeshardhath vaishnavantham

(Parasara Samhitha)

This sloka indicates that at the time of Parasara, Utharayana was

from the beginning of Dhanishta to the middle of Aslesha. That

happened near to BC.1400 as per astronomical calculations. Therefore

it is sure that Parasara Samhitha was written around the period BC.

1400. Now the question is, can we be sure that Parasara Hora and

Parasara Sidhantha was written by the same person? Yes, because it is

said that Parasara wrote 3 books on astrology - Parasara Sidhanta,

Parasara Samhitha and Parasara Hora. How? What is the proof? In the

Vyakhya of Varaha Hora, Bhattolpala says:

Parasara Samhitha kevalamasmabhir drishtam nathu jathakam

Srooyathe skandha treyamithi Parasarasyethi.

(Varaha Hora - Bhattolpala Vyakhya)

Meaning, I have seen only Parasara Samhitha, and not Parasara Hora.

But I have heard that Parasara had written books for all the 3

skandhas (i.e. Sidhantha, Samhitha and Hora).

>From all these it is clear that Parasara of BC.1400 has written 3

books, i.e. Parasara Sidhatha, Parasara Samhitha and Parasara Hora.

[The game of time and space are curious. I have 3 scholars in my mind

while saying this - Bhattolpala (10th Century), Kaikulangara (17th

Century) and Acharya Balabhadra (18th Century). Parasara Hora was not

seen by Bhattolpala but Parasara Samhitha, Kaikulangara has seen

Parasara Hora but not Parasara Samhitha, Bhattolpala has seen Gargi

Hora but not Kaikulangara, Balabhadra and Kaikulangara has seen Soura

Hora (also known as Suryarunasamvadam or Sourajathakam) but not

Bhattolpala. It all just means that some texts that were not available

in some parts of the country were available at some other parts of the

country at the same time. This may be the only cause due to which

Bhattolpala failed to see a copy of Parasara Hora.]

Now the question comes, Is this the Parasara who was the originator

of Parasara Kula? No, because in Mahabharatha period (may be BC.3100)

as well one Parasara lived. In Brihadaranyopanishad, while describing

the Acharya Paramparas the Rishi speaks about 3 Prarasaryas and 2

Parasaryayanas. It reveals that like the Sankaracharyas of today,

everybody of Parasara Kula (Guru-Sishya Parampara) was known as

Parasara. The Rishi Kulas are some what similar to the Universities of

today, it just shows the continuity of Teacher-Student relationship

(Guru-Sishya parampara). While describing the 18 Acharyas (Acharya

Kulas) of astrology, Parasara says:

Viswasrishta narado vyaso vasishtotri parasara

Lomaso yevanaH suryaschevanaH kasyapo bhrigu

Pulasthyo manuracharyaH poulisa sounakongiraH

Gargo mareechirithyethe jcheya jyothiH prevarthaka

(Parasara Hora)

See that in this list one Parasara is also mentioned. Parasara is not

going to mention his own name in a book written by him. That means

here Parasara is remembering the originator of Parasara Kula who also

meditated on astrology and propagated this wisdom. Then we could think

that probably the Parasara of Mahabharatha period also knew about

astrology.

Another point to be noted is that Parasara (of BC.1400), also

mentions the name of Yevana (Yevanacharya). This Yevanacharya cannot

be Sphujidwaja or Meenaraja who lived after the period of Alexander

who invaded India. This Yevanacharya should be the originator of

Yevana Kula of astrology, who lived prior to BC.1400. Probably

Sphujidwaja and Meenaraja were the students of this branch of

astrology.

I derive 2 conclusions from the above details:

1) Parasara who wrote BPHS lived around BC.1400

2) Sphujidwaja and Meenaraja are the followers of Yevanacharyas

system of astrology and that is why text written by them are known as

Yevana Horas.

================================(End of article)

I am ready to change my views, if you are able to provide enough

evidence (not secondary evidences in the from commentaries and words

of so called *scholers*, but primary evidence in the form of quotes

form original books/valid historical evidences).

> This is in fact an absolutely wrong

> conclusion since as on date Lagadha's Vedanga

> Jyotisha, also known as Rik Jotisha, is the earliest

> Indian work on astronomy avilable anywhere in the

> world. This is what Shankar Balakrishna Dikshit, the

> scholar extraordinary on Indian astronomy, has said on

> page 88 of English translation of his "Bharatiya Jyotish".........

In the light of the above knowledge, can you still say the same?!!

Several translators may say several things! Forget all that, and let

us deal with the primary evidence, and let us deal with such questions

directly in our own way!!! We may have our own contributions to make

in several subjects, which at times may prove contradictory to the

established notions.

> Then Dr. S. Balachandra Rao,...............

> Then Prof. T. S. Kuppanna Sastry,...........

> Same is the view of....................

As I told you, forget all these translators notes, and deal with

available evidences directly!!....If you prove me wrong (logical

errors, faulty evidence or the like), I would be thankful to you and

would be glad to correct my errors.

BTW: Don't put so much issues and questions into a single mail. It is

becoming difficult to reply to them all in a single mail. But surely,

I am glad to be in this conversation, and respect your efforts.

Love,

Sreenadh

Message: 7

Tue, 1 Nov 2005 06:50:21 -0800 (PST)

Mohan Jyotishi <jyotishi231

Nothing Vedic or even Hindu about "Vedic astrology"

Dear Mr.Sreenadh,

I have gone through most of your responses carefully.

The first thing

that is protruding like a sore thumb from your

statements is:

"You are supposed to be in the cave of the lions, and

you proved that

most of them are just paper lions! But beware of the

real lions who

are casually looking at such arguments with a lazy

view, who have much

arguments and proofs in store, and who could clearly

see the logical

errors in your arguments!"

Honestly, it is not one lion fighting another nor is

it a real lion

fighting "paper lions" or even 'lazing lions". It is

not a fight

between a lion and a lamb either! In fact, it is not

a fight at all!

It is not a north-south divide nor is

it a NRK versus NR - ROI (ROI meaning the "rest of

India"). It is neither a show of one upmanship nor

brinkmanship nor scholarship!

It is just a discussion which is virtually free for

all -- and the

discusion is about the fact that the predictive system

of astrology being

tom-tomed as Vedic is not Vedic at all. It is not

even the so called Hindu

astrology either but it is just a system of

predictions which was known as

sidereal system till a few decades back and was

rechiristened by some

overseas "jyotishis" as Vedic so that they could earn

their TA and DA etc.etc. for

propagating something there as well as here!

I must admit that this august forum calls itself

"Vedic astrology" forum but in

spite of that fact it is participating in the

discussion against its very

existence! It is a matter of courage and that is the

real Vedic spirit.

Almost evry member of this forum is participating in

one way or the other i.e. either

directly or indirectly in this discussion "whether

astrology is Vedic or

anti-Vedic" and believe me, all of them are very much

vociferous and

contentious---and not just paper lions--- in their

arguments either for or

against this view. Of course, I cannot expect every

member of this forum to

come to the immediate conclusion, without

any "fight" on his/her part, that what they have been

following till date as

"Vedic astrology" is actualy not Vedic! It has been

dinned into the ears of

this generation by our "abhinav Parasharas" and

"modern Varahamihiras" that

our Vedic Rishis had nothing else to do except

"manufacturing" predictive astrology

books like "Brighu Samhita" and "Garga Samhita" and

"Parashara Hora" and

even Shambu Hora Prakash and so on and so forth! This

tamasha has gone to

such an extent that even "Maha Pandit Lankeshwar

Ravan" is supposed to have

written his "Ravana Samhita" just for delineating your

and my future! (One wonders

how the poor fellow got so much time with all the war

preparations at his

hands!)

Then we have got "nadi granthas" like "x nadi" and "y

nadi" and "z

nadi" and what not! However, I am sure that once

the members of this forum

are convinced of the fact they have been taken for a

ride---either knowingly or unknowingly--for such a

long time, they will definitely shed all their

misconceptios and feel sorry

for all the time, energy and money they have wasted on

such an non-Vedic

pastime which was being presented as "Vedic

astrology". No doubt there

will be some vested interests also whose bread and

butter lies in just

continuing to fleece the gullible but then they are in

a miniscule minority.

It is that miniscule minority that has to be watched

and watched carefully

since they may not like to be proved wrong in spite of

their knowing fully

well that they are already wrong! Believe me, most of

our "abhinav

Parasharas" are already aware of the fact that there

is absolutely no

predictive astrology in the Vedas, but then they do

not want to take any

risks now! However, since a lie has no legs to stand

upon, this lie that

"predictve astrology is Vedic" will also get shattered

sooner than later,

God willing!

I will discuss about other points raised by you later

but the first thing I would like to know is how you

have arrived at the conclusions that Parashara Samhita

is of 1500 BCE. This is in fact an absolutely wrong

conclusion since as on date Lagadha's Vedanga

Jyotisha, also known as Rik Jotisha, is the earliest

Indian work on astronomy avilable anywhere in the

world. This is what Shankar Balakrishna Dikshit, the

scholar extraordinary on Indian astronomy, has said on

page 88 of English translation of his "Bharatiya

Jyotish":

"A good many quotations from Garga have been given

before; it appears that Vedanga Jyotisha occupied an

important place in his (i.e. Brahmagupta's) time.

Even Parashara says, 'shravishthadyatpaushnardham

charatah shishiro vasantah'. This gives the same

solar position for winter solstice as given by Vedanga

Jyotisha. This shows that the Vedanga Jyotisha must

have been compiled long before these two seers viz.

Garga and Parashara lived....These verses from Garga

and Parashara show that Vedanga jyotisha was COMPOSED

LONG BEFORE THE TIMES OF GARGA AND PARASHARA..."

Then Dr. S. Balachandra Rao, in his Indian Mathematics

and Astronomy, page 24 says, "The Vedanga Jyotisha

belongs to the last part of the Vedic age. The text

proper can be considered as the records of the

essentials of astronomical knowledge needed for the

day-to-day life of the people of those times. The

Vedanga Jyotisha (and not Parashaa Samhita!) IS THE

CLMINATION OF THE KNOWLEDGE DEVELOPED AND ACCUMULATED

OVER THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF THE VEDIC PERIOD PRIOR TO

1400 BC".

Then Prof. T. S. Kuppanna Sastry, the former Hony.

Professor, Sanskrit College, Madras, has said in his

"Collected Papers on Jyotisha" on page 46 "In the

Vedanga Jyotisha (c. 1180 BC) THE EARLIEST HINDU

ASTRONOMICAL WORK EXTANT...".

Same is the view of all the prominent scholars like

Dr. R. Shama Sastri, Dr. G. S. Thibaut and S. K.

Pillai.

It is not only just the view of these scholars but it

is an astronomical fact that the position of

winter/summer solstice etc. as has been given in the

Vedanga Jyotisha is of around 13th/14th century BC.

These are the phenomena referred to later by

Varahamihira and others in their works. That also

proves that this was the oldest astronomical work of

Vedic astronomy in ancient India.

It is also a certainity that Paitamaha Sidhanta, also

known as Brahma Sidhanta, (or the Sidhanta revealed by

Lord Brahma Himself!) of Varaha's Panchashidahntika is

a derviative work of the Vedanga Jyotisha of Lagadha

and not any Parashari Samhita etc.

Besdies, Parashari Samhita, which may be a work of

abouit sixth/seventh century BC as per S. B. Dikshit

also does not give planetary longitudes but is

supposed to follow the pattern of the Vedanga Jyotisha

as per the commentators Somakara etc.

It means that the Surya Sidhanta of MAYA THE YAVANA

is the very first "Indian" work giving full fleged

methodology of calculating planetary longitudes etc.

With regards,

Mohan Jyotishi

November 4, 2005

"Mohan Jyotishi" - name is a misnomer like "Vedic Astrology" - Mohan Jyotishi is

not a so called Jyotishi practising astrology. He is a good astronomer and well

read in all scriptures and thorough with the history of astronomy, Vedic,

Babylonian, Parasara and Varaha, Garga etc. So he knows the time when Vedanga

Jyotisha came into existence and the quote given of solstitial points. He is a

master in the history of the so called Vedic Astronomy and so he is trying to

derive some intellectual happiness here by lighting up the astrologers.

So your painstaking efforts cannot convince him that Parasara was of 1500 BC.

1500 BC is the date of Rgveda in India according to standard research. Harappa-

Mohenjodaro (in the name of some past Mohan Jyotishi?)/Sindhu Sarasvati Dravid

civilization prevailed up to 1900 BC before the decline. Archaeology supports

such conclusions. Vedic claim of Sanskrit glossary in Indus seals is being

proclaimed as a fraud by Hindu and some internet resources. You can make a

search of Indus script and see the web pages of reputed Oxford researchers who

condemn the greatest discovery of Vedic India.

So as on date the accepted notions place the maximum antiquity of Vedic India at

1500 BC when nomads invaded India - according to Romila Thapar.

So how can Parasara Samhita belong to 1500 BC? Mohan Jyotishi knows all Sanskrit

astronomical works. You can see shades of Kashmiri Vedic background in his

writings asin the case of Sri Avtar Krishen Kaul.

To counter Mohanji, you have to find some Samhita OR Siddhanta in Prakrt or

Pisachi scripts. Lot more of research is required.

Surya Rao

Sreenadh <sreelid > wrote:

Dear Mohan ji,(This mail is a continuation of my previous mail to you)You

asked:> the first thing I would like to know is how you> have arrived at the

conclusions that Parashara Samhita> is of 1500 BCE.The following is my answer

to that question:================================ (Start of article)Period of

Parasara---------------------When Parasara, the author of Parasara Sidhantha,

Parasara Samhitha and Parasara Hora lived? Is it near to Mahabharatha period,

which as per some scholars is near to BC. 3100?Or are these texts are written

by some Parasara of the Parasara Kula of later age? It is a known fact that

this Parasara is the son of the Rishi called Sakthi who was also a well known

person who wrote texts related to Astrology. There is a sloka in Parasara

Samhita (quoted in the Vyakhya of Varaha

Hora by Bhattolpala), which helps us in determining the period of Parasara, the

author of BPHS. The sloka is quoted below:Srevishtadyath poushnantham charatha

sisiraHVasanthaH poushnanthyath rohinyanthamSoumyadyath sarpardham

greeshmaHPravid sarpardhath dhasthanthamChithradyath indrardham sarthHemantho

Jyeshardhath vaishnavantham(Parasara Samhitha)This sloka indicates that at the

time of Parasara, Utharayana was from the beginning of Dhanishta to the middle

of Aslesha. That happened near to BC.1400 as per astronomical calculations.

Therefore it is sure that Parasara Samhitha was written around the period

BC.1400. Now the question is, can we be sure that Parasara Hora and Parasara

Sidhantha was written by the same person? Yes, because it is said that Parasara

wrote 3 books on astrology - Parasara Sidhanta, Parasara Samhitha and Parasara

Hora. How? What is the proof? In the Vyakhya of Varaha Hora, Bhattolpala

says:Parasara Samhitha kevalamasmabhir drishtam nathu jathakamSrooyathe skandha

treyamithi Parasarasyethi.(Varaha Hora - Bhattolpala Vyakhya) Meaning, I have

seen only Parasara Samhitha, and not Parasara Hora. But I have heard that

Parasara had written books for all the 3 skandhas (i.e. Sidhantha, Samhitha and

Hora). From all these it is clear that Parasara of BC.1400 has written 3 books,

i.e. Parasara Sidhatha, Parasara Samhitha and Parasara Hora.[The game of time

and space are curious. I have 3 scholars in my mind while saying this -

Bhattolpala (10th Century), Kaikulangara (17th Century) and Acharya Balabhadra

(18th Century). Parasara Hora was not seen by Bhattolpala but Parasara

Samhitha, Kaikulangara has seen Parasara Hora but not Parasara Samhitha,

Bhattolpala has seen Gargi Hora but not Kaikulangara, Balabhadra and

Kaikulangara has seen Soura Hora (also known as Suryarunasamvadam or

Sourajathakam) but not

Bhattolpala. It all just means that some texts that were not available in some

parts of the country were available at some other parts of the country at the

same time. This may be the only cause due to which Bhattolpala failed to see a

copy of Parasara Hora.]Now the question comes, Is this the Parasara who was the

originator of Parasara Kula? No, because in Mahabharatha period (may be BC.3100)

as well one Parasara lived. In Brihadaranyopanishad, while describing the

Acharya Paramparas the Rishi speaks about 3 Prarasaryas and 2 Parasaryayanas.

It reveals that like the Sankaracharyas of today, everybody of Parasara Kula

(Guru-Sishya Parampara) was known as Parasara. The Rishi Kulas are some what

similar to the Universities of today, it just shows the continuity of

Teacher-Student relationship (Guru-Sishya parampara). While describing the 18

Acharyas (Acharya Kulas) of astrology, Parasara says:Viswasrishta narado vyaso

vasishtotri parasaraLomaso yevanaH suryaschevanaH kasyapo bhriguPulasthyo

manuracharyaH poulisa sounakongiraHGargo mareechirithyethe jcheya jyothiH

prevarthaka(Parasara Hora)See that in this list one Parasara is also mentioned.

Parasara is not going to mention his own name in a book written by him. That

means here Parasara is remembering the originator of Parasara Kula who also

meditated on astrology and propagated this wisdom. Then we could think that

probably the Parasara of Mahabharatha period also knew about astrology. Another

point to be noted is that Parasara (of BC.1400), also mentions the name of

Yevana (Yevanacharya). This Yevanacharya cannot be Sphujidwaja or Meenaraja who

lived after the period of Alexander who invaded India. This Yevanacharya should

be the originator of Yevana Kula of astrology, who lived prior to BC.1400.

Probably Sphujidwaja and Meenaraja were the students of this branch of

astrology.I derive 2 conclusions from the above details:1) Parasara who

wrote BPHS lived around BC.14002) Sphujidwaja and Meenaraja are the

followers of Yevanacharyas system of astrology and that is why text written by

them are known as Yevana Horas.================================(End of

article)I am ready to change my views, if you are able to provide enough

evidence (not secondary evidences in the from commentaries and words of so

called *scholers*, but primary evidence in the form of quotes form original

books/valid historical evidences).> This is in fact an absolutely wrong>

conclusion since as on date Lagadha's Vedanga> Jyotisha, also known as Rik

Jotisha, is the earliest> Indian work on astronomy avilable anywhere in the>

world. This is what Shankar Balakrishna Dikshit, the> scholar extraordinary on

Indian astronomy, has

said on> page 88 of English translation of his "Bharatiya Jyotish".........In

the light of the above knowledge, can you still say the same?!! Several

translators may say several things! Forget all that, and let us deal with the

primary evidence, and let us deal with such questions directly in our own

way!!! We may have our own contributions to make in several subjects, which at

times may prove contradictory to the established notions. > Then Dr. S.

Balachandra Rao,...............> Then Prof. T. S. Kuppanna Sastry,...........>

Same is the view of....................As I told you, forget all these

translators notes, and deal with available evidences directly!!....If you prove

me wrong (logical errors, faulty evidence or the like), I would be thankful to

you and would be glad to correct my errors.BTW: Don't put so much issues and

questions into a single mail. It is becoming difficult to reply to them all in

a

single mail. But surely, I am glad to be in this conversation, and respect your

efforts.Love,SreenadhMessage: 7 Tue, 1 Nov 2005 06:50:21 -0800

(PST) Mohan Jyotishi <jyotishi231 >Nothing Vedic or

even Hindu about "Vedic astrology"Dear Mr.Sreenadh,I have gone through most of

your responses carefully. The first thingthat is protruding like a sore thumb

from yourstatements is:"You are supposed to be in the cave of the lions, andyou

proved thatmost of them are just paper lions! But beware of thereal lions whoare

casually looking at such arguments with a lazyview, who have mucharguments and

proofs in store, and who could clearlysee the logicalerrors in your

arguments!"Honestly, it is not one lion fighting another nor isit a real

lionfighting "paper lions" or even

'lazing lions". It isnot a fightbetween a lion and a lamb either! In fact, it

is nota fight at all!It is not a north-south divide nor isit a NRK versus NR -

ROI (ROI meaning the "rest ofIndia"). It is neither a show of one upmanship

norbrinkmanship nor scholarship!It is just a discussion which is virtually free

forall -- and thediscusion is about the fact that the predictive systemof

astrology beingtom-tomed as Vedic is not Vedic at all. It is noteven the so

called Hinduastrology either but it is just a system ofpredictions which was

known assidereal system till a few decades back and wasrechiristened by

someoverseas "jyotishis" as Vedic so that they could earntheir TA and DA

etc.etc. forpropagating something there as well as here!I must admit that this

august forum calls itself"Vedic astrology" forum but inspite of that fact it is

participating in

thediscussion against its veryexistence! It is a matter of courage and that is

thereal Vedic spirit.Almost evry member of this forum is participating inone

way or the other i.e. eitherdirectly or indirectly in this discussion

"whetherastrology is Vedic oranti-Vedic" and believe me, all of them are very

muchvociferous andcontentious---and not just paper lions--- in theirarguments

either for oragainst this view. Of course, I cannot expect everymember of this

forum tocome to the immediate conclusion, withoutany "fight" on his/her part,

that what they have beenfollowing till date as"Vedic astrology" is actualy not

Vedic! It has beendinned into the ears ofthis generation by our "abhinav

Parasharas" and"modern Varahamihiras" thatour Vedic Rishis had nothing else to

do except"manufacturing" predictive astrologybooks like "Brighu Samhita" and

"Garga Samhita" and"Parashara Hora"

andeven Shambu Hora Prakash and so on and so forth! Thistamasha has gone tosuch

an extent that even "Maha Pandit LankeshwarRavan" is supposed to havewritten his

"Ravana Samhita" just for delineating yourand my future! (One wondershow the

poor fellow got so much time with all the warpreparations at hishands!)Then we

have got "nadi granthas" like "x nadi" and "ynadi" and "znadi" and what not!

However, I am sure that oncethe members of this forumare convinced of the fact

they have been taken for aride---either knowingly or unknowingly--for such

along time, they will definitely shed all theirmisconceptios and feel sorryfor

all the time, energy and money they have wasted onsuch an non-Vedicpastime

which was being presented as "Vedicastrology". No doubt therewill be some

vested interests also whose bread andbutter lies in justcontinuing to fleece

the gullible

but then they are ina miniscule minority.It is that miniscule minority that has

to be watchedand watched carefullysince they may not like to be proved wrong in

spite oftheir knowing fullywell that they are already wrong! Believe me, most

ofour "abhinavParasharas" are already aware of the fact that thereis absolutely

nopredictive astrology in the Vedas, but then they donot want to take anyrisks

now! However, since a lie has no legs to standupon, this lie that"predictve

astrology is Vedic" will also get shatteredsooner than later,God willing!I will

discuss about other points raised by you laterbut the first thing I would like

to know is how youhave arrived at the conclusions that Parashara Samhitais of

1500 BCE. This is in fact an absolutely wrongconclusion since as on date

Lagadha's VedangaJyotisha, also known as Rik Jotisha, is the earliestIndian

work on astronomy avilable

anywhere in theworld. This is what Shankar Balakrishna Dikshit, thescholar

extraordinary on Indian astronomy, has said onpage 88 of English translation of

his "BharatiyaJyotish":"A good many quotations from Garga have been givenbefore;

it appears that Vedanga Jyotisha occupied animportant place in his (i.e.

Brahmagupta's) time. Even Parashara says, 'shravishthadyatpaushnardhamcharatah

shishiro vasantah'. This gives the samesolar position for winter solstice as

given by VedangaJyotisha. This shows that the Vedanga Jyotisha musthave been

compiled long before these two seers viz.Garga and Parashara lived....These

verses from Gargaand Parashara show that Vedanga jyotisha was COMPOSEDLONG

BEFORE THE TIMES OF GARGA AND PARASHARA..."Then Dr. S. Balachandra Rao, in his

Indian Mathematicsand Astronomy, page 24 says, "The Vedanga Jyotishabelongs to

the last part of the Vedic age. The

textproper can be considered as the records of theessentials of astronomical

knowledge needed for theday-to-day life of the people of those times.

TheVedanga Jyotisha (and not Parashaa Samhita!) IS THECLMINATION OF THE

KNOWLEDGE DEVELOPED AND ACCUMULATEDOVER THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF THE VEDIC PERIOD

PRIOR TO1400 BC".Then Prof. T. S. Kuppanna Sastry, the former Hony.Professor,

Sanskrit College, Madras, has said in his"Collected Papers on Jyotisha" on

page 46 "In theVedanga Jyotisha (c. 1180 BC) THE EARLIEST HINDUASTRONOMICAL

WORK EXTANT...".Same is the view of all the prominent scholars likeDr. R. Shama

Sastri, Dr. G. S. Thibaut and S. K.Pillai.It is not only just the view of these

scholars but itis an astronomical fact that the position ofwinter/summer

solstice etc. as has been given in theVedanga Jyotisha is of around 13th/14th

century BC. These are the phenomena referred to later

byVarahamihira and others in their works. That alsoproves that this was the

oldest astronomical work ofVedic astronomy in ancient India. It is also a

certainity that Paitamaha Sidhanta, alsoknown as Brahma Sidhanta, (or the

Sidhanta revealed byLord Brahma Himself!) of Varaha's Panchashidahntika isa

derviative work of the Vedanga Jyotisha of Lagadha and not any Parashari

Samhita etc.Besdies, Parashari Samhita, which may be a work ofabouit

sixth/seventh century BC as per S. B. Dikshitalso does not give planetary

longitudes but issupposed to follow the pattern of the Vedanga Jyotishaas per

the commentators Somakara etc. It means that the Surya Sidhanta of MAYA THE

YAVANAis the very first "Indian" work giving full flegedmethodology of

calculating planetary longitudes etc.With regards,Mohan Jyotishi

FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.

November 4, 2005

The research on Astrology can go on but to prove it as Vedic, we might

not need the help of history. I have explained the same to Sri Mohan

and Sri Avtar couple of times and both did not respond to my

explanations. They have stuck their guns to calling astrology vedic

only if it is contained in the Vedas, which is nothing short of

narrowmindedness.

I have stopped conversing with them only on this ground as they have

virtually no logic to counter what I had written earlier. Secondly,

they claim to be open to acceptance but have decided that their

knowledge is true and everyone else does not know. With such an

attitude of theirs, you might be discussing with a stone and not a

person.

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

On 11/4/05, Surya Rao <suryarao12 > wrote:

Dear Sreenadhji,

"Mohan Jyotishi" - name is a misnomer like "Vedic Astrology" -

Mohan Jyotishi is not a so called Jyotishi practising astrology. He is

a good astronomer and well read in all scriptures and thorough with the

history of astronomy, Vedic, Babylonian, Parasara and Varaha, Garga

etc. So he knows the time when Vedanga Jyotisha came into existence and

the quote given of solstitial points. He is a master in the history of

the so called Vedic Astronomy and so he is trying to derive some

intellectual happiness here by lighting up the astrologers.

So your painstaking efforts cannot convince him that Parasara was

of 1500 BC. 1500 BC is the date of Rgveda in India according to

standard research. Harappa- Mohenjodaro (in the name of some past Mohan

Jyotishi?)/Sindhu Sarasvati Dravid civilization prevailed up to

1900 BC before the decline. Archaeology supports such

conclusions. Vedic claim of Sanskrit glossary in Indus seals is

being proclaimed as a fraud by Hindu and some internet resources. You

can make a search of Indus script and see the web pages of

reputed Oxford researchers who condemn the greatest discovery of

Vedic India.

So as on date the accepted notions place the maximum antiquity of

Vedic India at 1500 BC when nomads invaded India - according to Romila

Thapar.

So how can Parasara Samhita belong to 1500 BC? Mohan Jyotishi

knows all Sanskrit astronomical works. You can see shades of

Kashmiri Vedic background in his writings asin the case of Sri Avtar

Krishen Kaul.

To counter Mohanji, you have to find some Samhita OR Siddhanta in Prakrt or

Pisachi scripts. Lot more of research is required.

Surya Rao

Sreenadh <sreelid > wrote:

Dear Mohan ji,(This mail is a continuation of my previous mail to you)You

asked:> the first thing I would like to know is how you

> have arrived at the conclusions that Parashara Samhita> is of 1500 BCE.The

following is my answer to that question:================================ (Start

of article)Period of Parasara---------------------

When Parasara, the author of Parasara Sidhantha, Parasara Samhitha and Parasara

Hora lived? Is it near to Mahabharatha period, which as per some scholars is

near to BC. 3100?Or are these texts are written by some Parasara of the

Parasara Kula of later age? It is a known fact that this Parasara is the son of

the Rishi called Sakthi who was also a well known person who wrote texts related

to Astrology. There is a sloka in Parasara Samhita (quoted in the Vyakhya of

Varaha

Hora by Bhattolpala), which helps us in determining the period of Parasara, the

author of BPHS. The sloka is quoted below:Srevishtadyath poushnantham charatha

sisiraHVasanthaH poushnanthyath rohinyantham

Soumyadyath sarpardham greeshmaHPravid sarpardhath dhasthanthamChithradyath

indrardham sarthHemantho Jyeshardhath vaishnavantham(Parasara Samhitha)This

sloka indicates that at the time of Parasara, Utharayana was from the beginning

of Dhanishta to the middle of Aslesha. That happened near to BC.1400 as per

astronomical calculations. Therefore it is sure that Parasara Samhitha was

written around the period BC.1400. Now the question is, can we be sure that

Parasara Hora and Parasara Sidhantha was written by the same person? Yes,

because it is said that Parasara wrote 3 books on astrology - Parasara

Sidhanta, Parasara Samhitha and Parasara Hora. How? What is the proof? In the

Vyakhya of Varaha Hora, Bhattolpala

says:Parasara Samhitha kevalamasmabhir drishtam nathu jathakamSrooyathe skandha

treyamithi Parasarasyethi.(Varaha Hora - Bhattolpala Vyakhya) Meaning, I have

seen only Parasara Samhitha, and not Parasara Hora. But I have heard that

Parasara had written books for all the 3 skandhas (i.e. Sidhantha, Samhitha and

Hora). From all these it is clear that Parasara of BC.1400 has written 3 books,

i.e. Parasara Sidhatha, Parasara Samhitha and Parasara Hora.

[The game of time and space are curious. I have 3 scholars in my mind while

saying this - Bhattolpala (10th Century), Kaikulangara (17th Century) and

Acharya Balabhadra (18th Century). Parasara Hora was not

seen by Bhattolpala but Parasara Samhitha, Kaikulangara has seen Parasara Hora

but not Parasara Samhitha, Bhattolpala has seen Gargi Hora but not

Kaikulangara, Balabhadra and Kaikulangara has seen Soura Hora (also known as

Suryarunasamvadam or Sourajathakam) but not