(Rasi and div charts) Shri Narasimha - 1

[Guest guest]

Namaste Pradeep,

 

> 1)Aspects can happen only if planets are longitudinally disposed so.> (You

Know the rules).> > 2)Let us Take your example.> a)Lagna is at 22 deg in Aries>

b)Jupiter is at 18 deg Gemini> C)Lagna navamsha is Libra> > Now my question is

whether you project or do not project,can Jupiter > in Gemini aspect Libra Sign

or not.Yes by 5th special aspect.> > 3)Now Let us take your second example.>

a)Mars is at 2 deg Aries> b)Jupiter is at 22 deg Aries> > Now my question is

whether you project or do not,Can Mars at 2deg > Aries aspect Jupiter at 22 deg

Aries.No.Aspectual rules from > Parashara allows that.

 

Let me add something to point 3 and construct it similar to what you said at the end of point 2:

 

"3)Now Let us take your second example.a)Mars is at 2 deg Ariesb)Jupiter is at

22 deg AriesC)Mars navamsha is in Aries.

D)Jupiter navamsha is in Libra.

 

Now my question is whether you project or do not project, can Mars in Aries

aspect Libra sign or not. Yes by 7th house aspect."

 

See, this is constructed the same way as what you said in 2. Yet, you have a

problem. That is where I see inconsistency. You are applying one paradigm to

"lagna navamsa" and quite another paradigm to "Jupiter navamsa". When it comes

to lagna at 22 deg in Ar, you are accepting "lagna navamsa" in Libra sign and

finding longitudinal aspects on Libra. When it comes to Jupiter at 22 deg in

Ar, you are not accepting "Jupiter navamsa" in Libra sign and going back to

Aries to evaluate aspects. I see a HUGE inconsistency.

 

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

-------------------------------Free Jyotish

lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software

(Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.orgSri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website:

http://www.SriJagannath.org-------------------------------

 

> Dear Narasimha ji> > Thanks for your mail.There is no inconsistency at all.> >

1)Aspects can happen only if planets are longitudinally disposed so.> (You Know

the rules).> > 2)Let us Take your example.> a)Lagna is at 22 deg in Aries>

b)Jupiter is at 18 deg Gemini> C)Lagna navamsha is Libra> > Now my question is

whether you project or do not project,can Jupiter > in Gemini aspect Libra Sign

or not.Yes by 5th special aspect.> > 3)Now Let us take your second example.>

a)Mars is at 2 deg Aries> b)Jupiter is at 22 deg Aries> > Now my question is

whether you project or do not,Can Mars at 2deg > Aries aspect Jupiter at 22 deg

Aries.No.Aspectual rules from > Parashara allows that.> > Now i feel you are

clear about the aspectual idea conveyed. The > question remaining is what is a

navamsha,why only lagna is > projected,cant i project all planets etc.The

answer is yes.The > navamsha grouping(that we call as a chart) is the result of

such a > projection.Now we should understand what is a navamsha - is it an >

external(transformed space)projection or a projection within the > same Rashi

chakra.We will see classical examples too.Pls see the > next mail.> > Thanks>

Pradeep> > , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" >

<pvr@c...> wrote:> >> > Dear Pradeep,> > > > I seem to detect an inconsistency

in your stand.> > > > If Jupiter and Mars are at 2 deg and 22 deg in Aries >

(respectively), I take them to be in Ar and Li in navamsa chart and > I take

them to aspect each other.> > > > You seem to have a problem with it. You do

not recognize the fact > that they are in Ar and Li (in navamsa). You still

think in terms of > the physical placement (rasi chart). You say that they are

still at > 2 deg and 22 deg in Aries and hence 20 deg apart. So you questioned

> how two planets apart by 20 deg can aspect each other.> > > > Of course, in

my view, they are not 20 deg apart. They are 20 deg > apart in the physical

space (rasi) and 180 deg apart in navamsa. But > let us leave that aside and

accept your view for a moment.> > > > Now, the interesting thing is that you

and Finn said that the > correct way to judge a division is to project its

lagna onto the > rasi chart and judge houses from it and aspects on it in rasi

chart, > using planets of rasi chart. I hope I am not misrepresenting you.> >

> > Now, this brings into question your inconsistency. Let me > elaborate.> >

> > Suppose lagna is at 22 deg in Aries and Jupiter is at 18 deg > Gemini.

Lagna in navamsa is in Libra. You "project" it onto rasi > chart and say that

"navamsa lagna" is in Libra in rasi chart. You > say that Jupiter at 18 deg in

Gemini aspects navamsa lagna. (I hope > I am not misrepresenting you.)> > > >

However, lagna is at 22 deg in Aries physically (using the same > argument you

used earlier/above) and Jupiter is at 56 deg from it. > How can he aspect it?>

> > > Thus, when you are projecting navamsa lagna from Li in navamsa to > Li

in rasi, you are ignoring the fact that lagna is not physically > in Li and

treating as Li. Then why can't I project my Mars and > Jupiter at 2 and 22 deg

in Aries in the above example from Ar and Li > in navamsa to Ar and Li in rasi

chart and say that they aspect each > other? I'll call them "navamsa Mars" and

"navamsa Jupiter" and > project them onto Ar and Li of rasi chart (just as you

> projected "navamsa lagna" onto Li of rasi chart in the latter > example) and

say that they aspect each other.> > > > * * *> > > > > Is this

transformed space your personal view or based on any > > > classical

reference.> > > > To answer your question directly, it is not a view but a

deduction.> > > > Libra covers 180 deg-210 deg of the zodiac. A planet in the

7th > navamsa of Aries was mapped to Libra by Parasara. In other words, a >

planet between 20 deg and 23 deg 20 min of the zodiac is mapped to > 180

deg-210 of the zodiac. The way to understand it is to look at as > a

transformation. A tranformation can map the same space onto > itself. We can

take a space X and find a map f that maps X onto X. > Navamsa transformation

and dasamsa transformation are essentially > such maps of zodiac onto the same

zodiac.> > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > > Narasimha> >

-------------------------------> > Free

Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > Free Jyotish

software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > Sri Jagannath Centre

(SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> >

-------------------------------> > > > > >

Dear Pradeep,> > > > > > > > I answered this query of yours umpteen times.> >

> > > > > > Navamsa, dasamsa etc are transformed spaces. Two planets may > be

20 > > > > deg apart in the same sign in the physical space, but 180 deg > > >

apart > > > > in the transformed navamsa space. > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji>

> > > > > Is this transformed space your personal view or based on any > > >

classical reference.Shri Sanjay Rath once replied ''there are > two > > >

zodiacs - one in order and other not'' .Thus i would like to > know > > > your

view as well as SJC view ,so that people will not get > confused.> > > > > > I

know only about one zodiac,12 signs and divisions of > individual > > > signs

as advised by sage and there is no confusion at all.> > > > > > As per your

understanding is there a ''transformed space'' for > > > nakshathra padas or

are they physically present within a > rashi!!!.> > > (It equals one

navamsha).> > > Vargas show the relationship one planet is having with

different > > > signs(lords) based on ''arcs'' within a rashi.Kalyan Varma has

> given > > > clear examples regarding physique for each navamsha within a >

rashi.> > > > > > Thanks> > > Pradeep> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this

message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

Namaste Narasimha ji

 

There is no inconsistency at all.

The longitudinal degrees of planets and Lagna are marked w.r to

RASHI(Signs).Parashara framed aspectual rules based on longitudes.Thus

it is clear that aspects have to be understood only through Rashi

dispositions.

 

When we talk about physical Position,it points to the natal degree of

a planet or Lagna.Then based on the divsion of Zodiac -This planet or

Lagna will have Rashi/Navamsha etc.

 

The debate is about ''One Planet Aspecting Another Planet(MARS &

JUPITER),based on Navamsha disposition''.We record planets and Lagna

based on RASHI degree and want to see aspects based on Navamsha

disposition.Record using one scale and measure using another!!!

 

Let us take my cases to make it more clear.

 

Case - 1 - Jupiter in Gemini RASHI aspecting Lagna NAVAMSHA.This

aspect is purely based on Rashi disposition.

 

Case - 2 - Mars in Aries RASHI is aspecting the NAVAMSHA of

jupiter.This aspect is purely based on RASHI disposition.

 

Now let us take your case

 

Mars 2 deg Aries & Jupiter 22 deg Aries.Do they have Longitudinal

Possibility for aspects based on '''RASHI'' disposition? NO.Where as

it is possible for the 2 cases mentioned above.It is not at all a

complex point.

 

I am totally with you - If you are talking about ''' Mars apsecting

Gurunavamsha or Shadvargas of Guru''.But this is not the topic of

debate.It is about two planets aspecting each other by virtue of their

navamsha disposition(isn't it the case if we draw a navamsha chart and

see aspects),which is never psossible.

 

I will give an analogy in another mail.

 

Thanks

Pradeep

 

 

 

vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"

<pvr@c...> wrote:

>

> Namaste Pradeep,

>

> > 1)Aspects can happen only if planets are longitudinally disposed so.

> > (You Know the rules).

> >

> > 2)Let us Take your example.

> > a)Lagna is at 22 deg in Aries

> > b)Jupiter is at 18 deg Gemini

> > C)Lagna navamsha is Libra

> >

> > Now my question is whether you project or do not project,can Jupiter

> > in Gemini aspect Libra Sign or not.Yes by 5th special aspect.

> >

> > 3)Now Let us take your second example.

> > a)Mars is at 2 deg Aries

> > b)Jupiter is at 22 deg Aries

> >

> > Now my question is whether you project or do not,Can Mars at 2deg

> > Aries aspect Jupiter at 22 deg Aries.No.Aspectual rules from

> > Parashara allows that.

>

> Let me add something to point 3 and construct it similar to what you

said at the end of point 2:

>

> "3)Now Let us take your second example.

> a)Mars is at 2 deg Aries

> b)Jupiter is at 22 deg Aries

> C)Mars navamsha is in Aries.

> D)Jupiter navamsha is in Libra.

>

> Now my question is whether you project or do not project, can Mars

in Aries aspect Libra sign or not. Yes by 7th house aspect."

>

> See, this is constructed the same way as what you said in 2. Yet,

you have a problem. That is where I see inconsistency. You are

applying one paradigm to "lagna navamsa" and quite another paradigm to

"Jupiter navamsa". When it comes to lagna at 22 deg in Ar, you are

accepting "lagna navamsa" in Libra sign and finding longitudinal

aspects on Libra. When it comes to Jupiter at 22 deg in Ar, you are

not accepting "Jupiter navamsa" in Libra sign and going back to Aries

to evaluate aspects. I see a HUGE inconsistency.

>

> May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> Narasimha

> -------------------------------

> Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> -------------------------------

>

> > Dear Narasimha ji

> >

> > Thanks for your mail.There is no inconsistency at all.

> >

> > 1)Aspects can happen only if planets are longitudinally disposed so.

> > (You Know the rules).

> >

> > 2)Let us Take your example.

> > a)Lagna is at 22 deg in Aries

> > b)Jupiter is at 18 deg Gemini

> > C)Lagna navamsha is Libra

> >

> > Now my question is whether you project or do not project,can Jupiter

> > in Gemini aspect Libra Sign or not.Yes by 5th special aspect.

> >

> > 3)Now Let us take your second example.

> > a)Mars is at 2 deg Aries

> > b)Jupiter is at 22 deg Aries

> >

> > Now my question is whether you project or do not,Can Mars at 2deg

> > Aries aspect Jupiter at 22 deg Aries.No.Aspectual rules from

> > Parashara allows that.

> >

> > Now i feel you are clear about the aspectual idea conveyed. The

> > question remaining is what is a navamsha,why only lagna is

> > projected,cant i project all planets etc.The answer is yes.The

> > navamsha grouping(that we call as a chart) is the result of such a

> > projection.Now we should understand what is a navamsha - is it an

> > external(transformed space)projection or a projection within the

> > same Rashi chakra.We will see classical examples too.Pls see the

> > next mail.

> >

> > Thanks

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"

> > <pvr@c...> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Pradeep,

> > >

> > > I seem to detect an inconsistency in your stand.

> > >

> > > If Jupiter and Mars are at 2 deg and 22 deg in Aries

> > (respectively), I take them to be in Ar and Li in navamsa chart and

> > I take them to aspect each other.

> > >

> > > You seem to have a problem with it. You do not recognize the fact

> > that they are in Ar and Li (in navamsa). You still think in terms of

> > the physical placement (rasi chart). You say that they are still at

> > 2 deg and 22 deg in Aries and hence 20 deg apart. So you questioned

> > how two planets apart by 20 deg can aspect each other.

> > >

> > > Of course, in my view, they are not 20 deg apart. They are 20 deg

> > apart in the physical space (rasi) and 180 deg apart in navamsa. But

> > let us leave that aside and accept your view for a moment.

> > >

> > > Now, the interesting thing is that you and Finn said that the

> > correct way to judge a division is to project its lagna onto the

> > rasi chart and judge houses from it and aspects on it in rasi chart,

> > using planets of rasi chart. I hope I am not misrepresenting you.

> > >

> > > Now, this brings into question your inconsistency. Let me

> > elaborate.

> > >

> > > Suppose lagna is at 22 deg in Aries and Jupiter is at 18 deg

> > Gemini. Lagna in navamsa is in Libra. You "project" it onto rasi

> > chart and say that "navamsa lagna" is in Libra in rasi chart. You

> > say that Jupiter at 18 deg in Gemini aspects navamsa lagna. (I hope

> > I am not misrepresenting you.)

> > >

> > > However, lagna is at 22 deg in Aries physically (using the same

> > argument you used earlier/above) and Jupiter is at 56 deg from it.

> > How can he aspect it?

> > >

> > > Thus, when you are projecting navamsa lagna from Li in navamsa to

> > Li in rasi, you are ignoring the fact that lagna is not physically

> > in Li and treating as Li. Then why can't I project my Mars and

> > Jupiter at 2 and 22 deg in Aries in the above example from Ar and Li

> > in navamsa to Ar and Li in rasi chart and say that they aspect each

> > other? I'll call them "navamsa Mars" and "navamsa Jupiter" and

> > project them onto Ar and Li of rasi chart (just as you

> > projected "navamsa lagna" onto Li of rasi chart in the latter

> > example) and say that they aspect each other.

> > >

> > > * * *

> > >

> > > > Is this transformed space your personal view or based on any

> > > > classical reference.

> > >

> > > To answer your question directly, it is not a view but a deduction.

> > >

> > > Libra covers 180 deg-210 deg of the zodiac. A planet in the 7th

> > navamsa of Aries was mapped to Libra by Parasara. In other words, a

> > planet between 20 deg and 23 deg 20 min of the zodiac is mapped to

> > 180 deg-210 of the zodiac. The way to understand it is to look at as

> > a transformation. A tranformation can map the same space onto

> > itself. We can take a space X and find a map f that maps X onto X.

> > Navamsa transformation and dasamsa transformation are essentially

> > such maps of zodiac onto the same zodiac.

> > >

> > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> > > Narasimha

> > > -------------------------------

> > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > -------------------------------

> > >

> > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > >

> > > > > I answered this query of yours umpteen times.

> > > > >

> > > > > Navamsa, dasamsa etc are transformed spaces. Two planets may

> > be 20

> > > > > deg apart in the same sign in the physical space, but 180 deg

> > > > apart

> > > > > in the transformed navamsa space.

> > > >

> > > > Dear Narasimha ji

> > > >

> > > > Is this transformed space your personal view or based on any

> > > > classical reference.Shri Sanjay Rath once replied ''there are

> > two

> > > > zodiacs - one in order and other not'' .Thus i would like to

> > know

> > > > your view as well as SJC view ,so that people will not get

> > confused.

> > > >

> > > > I know only about one zodiac,12 signs and divisions of

> > individual

> > > > signs as advised by sage and there is no confusion at all.

> > > >

> > > > As per your understanding is there a ''transformed space'' for

> > > > nakshathra padas or are they physically present within a

> > rashi!!!.

> > > > (It equals one navamsha).

> > > > Vargas show the relationship one planet is having with different

> > > > signs(lords) based on ''arcs'' within a rashi.Kalyan Varma has

> > given

> > > > clear examples regarding physique for each navamsha within a

> > rashi.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > Pradeep

> > >

> > >

> > >

>