Chara karaka replacement and parashar the compiler

[Guest guest]

Namaste Manjunath and Satish,

 

> What is Chara karaka replacement? Can you explain?> Is this something to do

with Ak and Amk aspecting> each other or some

 

Suppose Saturn is at 27 deg 25 min and becomes AK. Suppose Mercury is at 27 deg

12 min and becomes AmK.

 

At birth, Saturn is AK. But, later in life, Saturn is "replaced" by Mercury.

Then Mercury becomes the functional AK. The AmK slot becomes vacant and sthira

karaka takes that slot. This is like a Prime Minister retiring and Deputy PM

(or Home Minister) taking his post.

 

If one reads what Parasara and Jamini wrote on chara karakas very carefully, one

will realize that the above has basis in rishi proktam!

> kind of parivarthana/exchange? Is this just a theory

> or is there any use of this in practical applications

Of course, it has practical application. When a chara karaka replacement occurs,

it brings major changes in life, personality and attitude.

 

> I beleive it is a theory proposed by SJC.

There are words of Parasara and Jaimini that were conveniently ignored by most

commentators (perhaps except Iranganti Rangacharya, who wrote a commentary on

Jaimini Sutram). The knowledge of Pt Sanjay Rath's parampara has not ignored

the teachings of Parasara on chara karaka parivartana and has interpreted them

in an intelligent way.

 

Labelling an intelligent interpretation of Parasara by a parampara as "a theory

proposed by SJC" is not quite accurate.

 

> If he was the authority he would give existing> opinions and make his own

judgement calls. He does not> do so. He just gives the two viewpoints without>

telling anything about which he thinks is the correct> one or what are the

criterias to use one or the other.

It is a misrepresentation that Parasara only summarized the views of others and

did not give judgments. He gave judgments in so many places. For example, when

he teaches Sudarsana chakra, Maitreya asks, "so many great Rishis reckon a

chart only from lagna and ignore Chandra lagna and Surya lagna. Are they

wrong". Parasara does not hesitate to say, "yes, they are wrong. The results

can be clear only by combining the three references."

 

Even in an area like chara karakas, where he may seem to some to be giving 2

views without giving his judgment, it can be argued that he did indeed give his

judgment.

 

No other compendium of Jyotish knowledge - from any age - comes anywhere close

to BPHS in terms of width and depth of knowledge covered. Only a true authority

can compile knowledge of such breadth and depth. BPHS is a work of a genius, a

true authority.

 

Parasara is undoubtedly the greatest authority on Jyotish that we know of. I

look at his work in awe. We are all intellectually lilliputs in front of him.

 

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

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> Yes.> > If he was the authority he would give existing> opinions and make his

own judgement calls. He does not> do so. He just gives the two viewpoints

without> telling anything about which he thinks is the correct> one or what are

the criterias to use one or the other.> > Satish> > --- kartheek_v2000

<kartheek_v2000> wrote:> > > Parashar the compiler?> > > > > > > > >

Manjunath,> > > > > >> > > > > > One more thing I would like to add, The only>

> > > > > replacement I am aware of is if two grahas> > have the> > > > > >

same degree then one of them will lose out> > and then> > > > > > one is left

with one less graha to complete> > the 7> > > > > > karaka scheme. One then

needs to introduce> > rahu.> > > > > > Otherwise rahu is not used as any of

the> > karakas.> > > > > >> > > > > > This goes back to 7 or 8 karakas debate.

In> > BPHS> > > > > > traslation the sage says that some use 7 and> > some> > >

> > > propose 8. The sage just gives the two> > opinions and> > > > > > does not

come on the side of one or the> > other.> > > > > >> > > > > > Sometimes it

makes me wonder who this> > Parashar is ? It> > > > > > appears that he is a

mere commentator> > compiling the> > > > > > state of art in jyotish during his

time.> > > > > >> > > > > > Satish> > > > > >> > > > > > --- SPK

<aquaris_rising> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > > Majunath,> > > > > > >> >

> > > > > I beleive it is a theory proposed by SJC.> > I am not> > > > > > >

sure what it is or whether it has neen> > tested> > > > > > > throughly in

making predictions.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Satish> > > > > > >> > > > > > >

--- "M. Sharma" <nakshatras@g...> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear

Sanjay> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > What is Chara karaka replacement? Can> >

you explain?> > > > > > > > Is this something to do with Ak and Amk> >

aspecting> > > > > > > > each other or some> > > > > > > > kind of

parivarthana/exchange? Is this> > just a> > > > > > > theory> > > > > > > > or

is there any> > > > > > > > use of this in practical applications> > (using it>

> > > > > > for> > > > > > > > predictions)> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks

in adnvance.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > MS> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > >

> > > > > > If someone known to her can advice,> > > > > > > > > She should show

tolerance to violent> > behaviours> > > > > > > > and teach non> > > > > > > >

violence. She> > > > > > > > > should take strength from her Ishta> > devata

(Moon> > > > > > > > and Ketu).> > > > > > > > > These all are the indications

of the> > chara> > > > > > > kaaraka> > > > > > > > replacement to> > > > > > >

> come in> > > > > > > > > her life.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ranjan,

 

I am not sure if I completely understand Nandan's position, but Parasara does

mention using degrees, minutes and seconds to decide AK. The verse is:

 

atmA sUryAdikheTAnAM madhye hyaMshAdhiko grahaH |

aMshasAmye kalAdhikyAt.h tatsAmye vikalAdhikaH || 3||

 

The second line literally translates to "In the event of equality of degrees, by

the higherness of minutes. In the event of equality of that, the one with higher

seconds".

 

However, it appears to me like the above applies only to AK and not to other

portfolios. Later, Parasara talks of only degrees.

 

Though some people interpreted chara karaka verses of Parasara as though

Parasara was giving two views, my reading of the verses is that Parasara was

giving just one consolidated view that involves taking Rahu sometimes and not

taking him sometimes, combining MK and PK into one portfolio sometimes and

separating them some other times.

 

Regarding the chara karaka replacement taught by Pt Sanjay Rath, here are the corresponding verses:

 

dvau grahau bhAgatulyau chejjAyetAM yasya janmani || 16||

tadagrakArakasyaivaM lopo GYeyo dvijottama |

sthirakArakavashAttasya phalaM GYeyaM shubhA.ashubham.h || 17||

 

[Meaning: If two planets have equal degrees at one's birth, then the absence of

the first karaka should be understood, O excellent Brahmin. Then auspicious and

inauspicious results of that should be known from sthira karaka.]

 

If you read all the verses of Parasara, you can see that his treatment of chara

karakas is quite nuanced and many scholars have given untenable

interpretations. This is unfortunate. Most interpretations have been grossly

untenable. When it comes to chara karaka definition, I am not fully convinced

by the explanations of any scholar, including Santhanam, PS Sastri, Dr Raman,

KN Rao and even my guru Pt Sanjay Rath. I haven't read GC Sharma, but I am sure

his interpretation would be similar to Santhanam's.

 

Honestly, Iranganti Rangacharya is the only person whose attempt I can

appreciate. It is the closest to Truth. Pt Sanjay Rath also has done a

commendable job in dealing with "chara karaka lopa" and the use of sthira

karakas when lopa occurs, but I am afraid he has totally ignored some verses of

Parasara. Hence, I am afraid his teachings are incomplete too.

 

Hopefully, I will be in a position to share my thoughts in detail with logic and

examples at a later point of time, when the Divine Mother wills so. For now, it

will suffice to say that the current understanding - based on the teachings of

various popular authors - is imperfect.

 

> In atha karakasdhyaya, 34th chapter in Sharma's version.

Sorry for nitpicking, but it is actually just "karakadhyaya". The word "atha"

found at the beginning of every chapter name is not part of the names of the

chapters. The word "atha" roughly means "now" or "in this manner". It has the

connotation of "ok, now let us move on to".

 

BTW, I will have a scanty presence on the lists for some more time and will be

ignoring most emails even if they are addressed to me. Please understand that

it is nothing personal. Just paucity of time...

 

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

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, "rohiniranjan" <rrgb@s...> wrote:> This

brings back memories -- I recall, that back in 1995 or so, on > this very list

in its pre- days, Nandan Chirmuley had stated the > same thing, that

Parashara proposed that only the degree (amsha) > should be taken into

consideration whentwo planets happen to be in > the same degree. This was

debated by several individuals who strongly > felt that the entire longitude

(upto vikala or seconds) should be > considered. His premise was based on

Rangacharya's book and if I > recall correctly a marthi text or translation of

some book.> > I am sure Nandan would be very happy to read your post.> > RR> >

> > , "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" > <pvr@c...>

wrote:> > Namaste Manjunath and Satish,> > > > > What is Chara karaka

replacement? Can you explain?> > > Is this something to do with Ak and Amk

aspecting> > > each other or some> > > > Suppose Saturn is at 27 deg 25 min

and becomes AK. Suppose Mercury > is at 27 deg 12 min and becomes AmK.> > > >

At birth, Saturn is AK. But, later in life, Saturn is "replaced" by > Mercury.

Then Mercury becomes the functional AK. The AmK slot becomes > vacant and

sthira karaka takes that slot. This is like a Prime > Minister retiring and

Deputy PM (or Home Minister) taking his post.> > > > If one reads what

Parasara and Jamini wrote on chara karakas very > carefully, one will realize

that the above has basis in rishi proktam!> > > > > kind of

parivarthana/exchange? Is this just a theory> > > or is there any use of this

in practical applications> > > > Of course, it has practical application. When

a chara karaka > replacement occurs, it brings major changes in life,

personality and > attitude.> > > > > I beleive it is a theory proposed by

SJC.> > > > There are words of Parasara and Jaimini that were conveniently >

ignored by most commentators (perhaps except Iranganti Rangacharya, > who wrote

a commentary on Jaimini Sutram). The knowledge of Pt Sanjay > Rath's parampara

has not ignored the teachings of Parasara on chara > karaka parivartana and has

interpreted them in an intelligent way.> > > > Labelling an intelligent

interpretation of Parasara by a parampara > as "a theory proposed by SJC" is

not quite accurate.> > > > > If he was the authority he would give existing> >

> opinions and make his own judgement calls. He does not> > > do so. He just

gives the two viewpoints without> > > telling anything about which he thinks is

the correct> > > one or what are the criterias to use one or the other.> > > >

It is a misrepresentation that Parasara only summarized the views > of others

and did not give judgments. He gave judgments in so many > places. For example,

when he teaches Sudarsana chakra, Maitreya > asks, "so many great Rishis reckon

a chart only from lagna and ignore > Chandra lagna and Surya lagna. Are they

wrong". Parasara does not > hesitate to say, "yes, they are wrong. The results

can be clear only > by combining the three references."> > > > Even in an area

like chara karakas, where he may seem to some to be > giving 2 views without

giving his judgment, it can be argued that he > did indeed give his judgment.>

> > > No other compendium of Jyotish knowledge - from any age - comes >

anywhere close to BPHS in terms of width and depth of knowledge > covered. Only

a true authority can compile knowledge of such breadth > and depth. BPHS is a

work of a genius, a true authority.> > > > Parasara is undoubtedly the

greatest authority on Jyotish that we > know of. I look at his work in awe. We

are all intellectually > lilliputs in front of him.> > > > May Jupiter's light

shine on us,> > Narasimha> >

-------------------------------> > Free

Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > Free Jyotish

software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > Sri Jagannath Centre

(SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> >

-------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sir,

 

What two views?

 

Parasara said seven planets are considered in some charts and eight in some.

Then he clarified the criteria under which eight planets are considered and

seven planets are considered. In other words, he taught when to use 7 planets

and when to use 8 planets. So it is not a question of two views as interpreted

by most scholars!

 

Then Parasara said MK and PK are clubbed together in some charts. Again, he

clarified under what circumstances you do so. Thus, it is again not a case of

two views!

 

So where does this idea that Parasara mentioned two views come from?? At most,

it comes from two camps of scholars who gave two DIFFERENT (and equally WRONG)

interpretations of Parasara!

 

Overall, Parasara's exposition of chara karakas is not a case of summarizing

multiple views, but a case of laying out ONE single comprehensive view that is

quite NUANCED and complicated.

 

That is how *I* look at it.

 

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

-------------------------------Free Jyotish

lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software

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> Mr.Rao> > There are two opinions, because Parasara knew that one day there >

would be two different camps fighting over it. They would be fighting > over it

till hundred years, and then when they die, their descendants > will fight over.

When all will die, the pralaya will come, and > satyuga will again start and

then we will have no ambiguity.> > > ,

"Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" > <pvr@c...> wrote:> > Namaste Ranjan,> > > > I am not

sure if I completely understand Nandan's position, but > Parasara does mention

using degrees, minutes and seconds to decide > AK. The verse is:> > > > atmA

sUryAdikheTAnAM madhye hyaMshAdhiko grahaH |> > aMshasAmye kalAdhikyAt.h

tatsAmye vikalAdhikaH || 3||> > > > The second line literally translates to

"In the event of equality > of degrees, by the higherness of minutes. In the

event of equality of > that, the one with higher seconds".> > > > However, it

appears to me like the above applies only to AK and not > to other portfolios.

Later, Parasara talks of only degrees.> > > > Though some people interpreted

chara karaka verses of Parasara as > though Parasara was giving two views, my

reading of the verses is > that Parasara was giving just one consolidated view

that involves > taking Rahu sometimes and not taking him sometimes, combining

MK and > PK into one portfolio sometimes and separating them some other times.>

> > > Regarding the chara karaka replacement taught by Pt Sanjay Rath, > here

are the corresponding verses:> > > > dvau grahau bhAgatulyau chejjAyetAM yasya

janmani || 16||> > tadagrakArakasyaivaM lopo GYeyo dvijottama |> >

sthirakArakavashAttasya phalaM GYeyaM shubhA.ashubham.h || 17||> > > >

[Meaning: If two planets have equal degrees at one's birth, then > the absence

of the first karaka should be understood, O excellent > Brahmin. Then

auspicious and inauspicious results of that should be > known from sthira

karaka.]> > > > If you read all the verses of Parasara, you can see that his >

treatment of chara karakas is quite nuanced and many scholars have > given

untenable interpretations. This is unfortunate. Most > interpretations have

been grossly untenable. When it comes to chara > karaka definition, I am not

fully convinced by the explanations of > any scholar, including Santhanam, PS

Sastri, Dr Raman, KN Rao and > even my guru Pt Sanjay Rath. I haven't read GC

Sharma, but I am sure > his interpretation would be similar to Santhanam's.> >

> > Honestly, Iranganti Rangacharya is the only person whose attempt I > can

appreciate. It is the closest to Truth. Pt Sanjay Rath also has > done a

commendable job in dealing with "chara karaka lopa" and the > use of sthira

karakas when lopa occurs, but I am afraid he has > totally ignored some verses

of Parasara. Hence, I am afraid his > teachings are incomplete too.> > > >

Hopefully, I will be in a position to share my thoughts in detail > with logic

and examples at a later point of time, when the Divine > Mother wills so. For

now, it will suffice to say that the current > understanding - based on the

teachings of various popular authors - > is imperfect.> > > > > In atha

karakasdhyaya, 34th chapter in Sharma's version.> > > > Sorry for nitpicking,

but it is actually just "karakadhyaya". The > word "atha" found at the

beginning of every chapter name is not part > of the names of the chapters. The

word "atha" roughly means "now" > or "in this manner". It has the connotation of

"ok, now let us move > on to".> > > > BTW, I will have a scanty presence on the

lists for some more time > and will be ignoring most emails even if they are

addressed to me. > Please understand that it is nothing personal. Just paucity

of time...> > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,> > Narasimha> >

-------------------------------> > Free

Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > Free Jyotish

software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org> > Sri Jagannath Centre

(SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> >

-------------------------------