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Why Dipavali is on October 2, 2005 and not on November 1, 2005!

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Dear friends,

Namaskar!

Much to the chagrin of "Vedic astrologers", we do not find any "Rashis"

(astrological signs) like Mesha, Vrisha etc. in any of the Vedas! This is not

only my contention but this is the unanimous conclusion of quite a few scholars

like Pt. Balkrishan Dikshit (Bharatiya Jyotish), Shri Bal Gangadhar Tilak (The

Orion), Dr. S. Balachandra Rao (Indian Mathematics & Astronomy) etc. etc. All

these details are available in Rashi5.doc at HinduCalendar and some other

forums.

 

Same is the case with the very first astronomical work viz. the Vedanga Jyotisha

(also known as Rik-Jyotisham and/or Yajur-Jyotisham) by Maharshi Lagadha. Except

for the sun and the moon, it does not refer to any other planet either! This

astronomical work was compiled definitely not later than thirteenth century BCE

(about five thousand years back!) in or around Kashmir (J & K State).

Similarly, Atharva Jyotisha of about fifth century BCE also is quite silent

about Rashis!

 

Does it mean that our real Vedic Vamadevas and original Parasharas (instead of

"imported Vamadevas" and "Abhinav Parasharas") never celebrated any Makar

Sankranti then which is also known as Pongal in South India, Shishir Sankranti

in J & K; Makaradi snan in Bengal etc. and so on? Does it mean also that by

celebrating Makar etc. Sankrantis these days we are just wasting our time and

money and energy?

 

This question has two answers -- YES and NO!

YES, because the Makar etc. Sankrantis we are clebrating today are either Lahiri

or Raman or Kharegat or Cyril Fagan or Tilaka or Grahalaghava etc. Sankrantis

--- all of them being advocated by one or the other "Jyotishi" because they

find their astrological predictions more accurate if they base them on that

particular Rashichakra! It means that all such Sankrantis are predictive

astrologers' sankrantis and not of our Vedic Rishis!

 

Now the next answer NO! Because the real Vedic Rishis did celebrate "Makar

Sankranti" but instead of calling it Makar Ingress they called it Udagayana or

Uttarayana! Why did they do so? Because the sun's declination really turns

Uttara that is towards North then! They also called it the month of Tapah

because being the middle of Winter, it was the month most suitable for penance

(tapasya!). The later Puranas and the itithasas also refer to Uttarayana etc.

with the only difference that we find Rashis in some of the Puranas like

Shrimad Bhagavata and Shri Vishnu Purana etc. but they have made Makara

Sankranti a synonym of Uttarayana, Karka Sankranti a synonym of Dakshinayana

and so on! It may be news to some of the "Vedic jyotishis" that there are no

Rashis in the Mahabharata either!

Surprisingly, the period starting with "Uttarayana" which is nothing but a

Sanskrit equivalent of Winter Solstice, is known as "Chilla Kalan" in Kashmir!

Chilla is a Persian synonym of "Tapasya"! The sixty day period of Chilla Kalan,

Chilla Khurd and Chilla Bacha comprise the two Vedic months of Tapah and

Tapasya! It means clearly that our festivals were related to seasons and even

Persian scholars acknowledged it! But somehow, our "Vedic scholars" who call

themselves "Vedic Jyotishis" are unaware of this fact! It is also a tragic

truth that these "Vedic astrologers" are quite oblivious to the fact that for

the real Vedic Rishis the Udagayana or Uttarayana was one of the most important

"festivals" of the whole year and there are innumerable references to it in

almost all the Vedas! Obviously, our "Vedic scholars" of today do not refer to

such festivals even obliquely in any of their works because that will hinder

their "predictive" activities!

 

Lunar Tapah, Tapasya etc. names got linked to solar months later on. This also

is clear from the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.!

 

A solar New Year starts these days with Meshadi -- transit of the sun into

Mesha. Since there are no Mesha etc. Rashsi in the Vedas, or the Vedanga

Jyotisha, does it mean that our Vedic Vamadevas and Parasharas (unlike their

modern counterfeits) never celebrated a solar New Year?

 

Again this question has two answers: YES and NO!

 

The reasons for both the answers i.e. the affirmative and negative are the same

as in the case of Makar Sanrkanti because for our Vedic Rishis, the solar New

Year started with the Spring Equinox, known as Vasanta Sampat, Vishuvan in the

Vedas. The simple reason is that this also is one of the most important

phenomena of the sun and it is also the start of the Vedic month Madhava -- the

second month of the Vasanta i.e. Spring season!

 

Now that we have seen that there ae no Rashis in the Vedas, it is futile to

argue whether our Vedic Rishis were following a so called sayana Rashickara or

a non-existent nirayana Rashichakra! It is in fact an insult to our Vedic

Rishis to say that they were following some Lahiri or Ramana or Kharegat or

Cyril Fagan etc. Rashichakra since that means that those Rishis were

subservient to these "modern" Vamadevas and Parasharas and must have been

waiting for these "exalted souls" to be born in Kaliyuga so that those Rishis

could celebrate their rituals and festivals under the proper "tutelage" of

these Kaliyugi Jyotishis!

 

Thus the Chaitra, Vaishakha, Jyeshtha etc. months, whether solar or lunar, that

we are following these days are meaningless as these have been "re-calibrated"

by predictive astrolgoers to correlate their predictions to the same! We are

thus ahead by at least one lunar month (twenty-four solar days as on date!) of

the real Vedic solar and lunar months! This has made everything topsy-turvy

with the result that Lunar Kartika Shukla Paksha (instead of Lunar Ashvina

Shukla Paksha) will actually start on October 4, 2005, and Amavasya being

present at the Pradosha/Nishitha of October 2, 2005, that is the real

Dipavalai!

 

We can well imagine the "benefits" we will reap if we celebrate "Pitramavasya"

on that actual Dipavali i.e. October 2, 2005, just because our "Vedic

Panchnagamaker" or "Vedic Jyotishi" has advised us to do so! It means we have

really lost our cultural moorings since we cannot differentiate between the

real Vedic festivals/phenomena and the artificial ones!

 

For further details, please see BVB6 at HinduClendar forum etc.

 

With kind regards,

Avtar Krishen Kaul

President

All India Calendar Reform Committee

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This fellow wrote earlier in Jyotish group and Sri Finn Windhall and

Sri Chandrashekhar shared his not so delightful background with us.

I do not think any more time should be wasted on him.

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

On 9/20/05, jyotirved <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> wrote:

Dear friends,

Namaskar!

Much to the chagrin of "Vedic astrologers", we do not find any "Rashis"

(astrological signs) like Mesha, Vrisha etc. in any of the Vedas! This is not

only my contention but this is the unanimous conclusion of quite a few scholars

like Pt. Balkrishan Dikshit (Bharatiya Jyotish), Shri Bal Gangadhar Tilak (The

Orion), Dr. S. Balachandra Rao (Indian Mathematics & Astronomy) etc. etc. All

these details are available in Rashi5.doc at HinduCalendar and some other

forums.

 

Same is the case with the very first astronomical work viz. the Vedanga Jyotisha

(also known as Rik-Jyotisham and/or Yajur-Jyotisham) by Maharshi Lagadha. Except

for the sun and the moon, it does not refer to any other planet either! This

astronomical work was compiled definitely not later than thirteenth century BCE

(about five thousand years back!) in or around Kashmir (J & K State).

Similarly, Atharva Jyotisha of about fifth century BCE also is quite silent

about Rashis!

 

Does it mean that our real Vedic Vamadevas and original Parasharas (instead of

"imported Vamadevas" and "Abhinav Parasharas") never celebrated any Makar

Sankranti then which is also known as Pongal in South India, Shishir Sankranti

in J & K; Makaradi snan in Bengal etc. and so on? Does it mean also that by

celebrating Makar etc. Sankrantis these days we are just wasting our time and

money and energy?

 

This question has two answers -- YES and NO!

YES, because the Makar etc. Sankrantis we are clebrating today are either Lahiri

or Raman or Kharegat or Cyril Fagan or Tilaka or Grahalaghava etc. Sankrantis

--- all of them being advocated by one or the other "Jyotishi" because they

find their astrological predictions more accurate if they base them on that

particular Rashichakra! It means that all such Sankrantis are predictive

astrologers' sankrantis and not of our Vedic Rishis!

 

Now the next answer NO! Because the real Vedic Rishis did celebrate "Makar

Sankranti" but instead of calling it Makar Ingress they called it Udagayana or

Uttarayana! Why did they do so? Because the sun's declination really turns

Uttara that is towards North then! They also called it the month of Tapah

because being the middle of Winter, it was the month most suitable for penance

(tapasya!). The later Puranas and the itithasas also refer to Uttarayana etc.

with the only difference that we find Rashis in some of the Puranas like

Shrimad Bhagavata and Shri Vishnu Purana etc. but they have made Makara

Sankranti a synonym of Uttarayana, Karka Sankranti a synonym of Dakshinayana

and so on! It may be news to some of the "Vedic jyotishis" that there are no

Rashis in the Mahabharata either!

Surprisingly, the period starting with "Uttarayana" which is nothing but a

Sanskrit equivalent of Winter Solstice, is known as "Chilla Kalan" in Kashmir!

Chilla is a Persian synonym of "Tapasya"! The sixty day period of Chilla Kalan,

Chilla Khurd and Chilla Bacha comprise the two Vedic months of Tapah and

Tapasya! It means clearly that our festivals were related to seasons and even

Persian scholars acknowledged it! But somehow, our "Vedic scholars" who call

themselves "Vedic Jyotishis" are unaware of this fact! It is also a tragic

truth that these "Vedic astrologers" are quite oblivious to the fact that for

the real Vedic Rishis the Udagayana or Uttarayana was one of the most important

"festivals" of the whole year and there are innumerable references to it in

almost all the Vedas! Obviously, our "Vedic scholars" of today do not refer to

such festivals even obliquely in any of their works because that will hinder

their "predictive" activities!

 

Lunar Tapah, Tapasya etc. names got linked to solar months later on. This also

is clear from the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.!

 

A solar New Year starts these days with Meshadi -- transit of the sun into

Mesha. Since there are no Mesha etc. Rashsi in the Vedas, or the Vedanga

Jyotisha, does it mean that our Vedic Vamadevas and Parasharas (unlike their

modern counterfeits) never celebrated a solar New Year?

 

Again this question has two answers: YES and NO!

 

The reasons for both the answers i.e. the affirmative and negative are the same

as in the case of Makar Sanrkanti because for our Vedic Rishis, the solar New

Year started with the Spring Equinox, known as Vasanta Sampat, Vishuvan in the

Vedas. The simple reason is that this also is one of the most important

phenomena of the sun and it is also the start of the Vedic month Madhava -- the

second month of the Vasanta i.e. Spring season!

 

Now that we have seen that there ae no Rashis in the Vedas, it is futile to

argue whether our Vedic Rishis were following a so called sayana Rashickara or

a non-existent nirayana Rashichakra! It is in fact an insult to our Vedic

Rishis to say that they were following some Lahiri or Ramana or Kharegat or

Cyril Fagan etc. Rashichakra since that means that those Rishis were

subservient to these "modern" Vamadevas and Parasharas and must have been

waiting for these "exalted souls" to be born in Kaliyuga so that those Rishis

could celebrate their rituals and festivals under the proper "tutelage" of

these Kaliyugi Jyotishis!

 

Thus the Chaitra, Vaishakha, Jyeshtha etc. months, whether solar or lunar, that

we are following these days are meaningless as these have been "re-calibrated"

by predictive astrolgoers to correlate their predictions to the same! We are

thus ahead by at least one lunar month (twenty-four solar days as on date!) of

the real Vedic solar and lunar months! This has made everything topsy-turvy

with the result that Lunar Kartika Shukla Paksha (instead of Lunar Ashvina

Shukla Paksha) will actually start on October 4, 2005, and Amavasya being

present at the Pradosha/Nishitha of October 2, 2005, that is the real

Dipavalai!

 

We can well imagine the "benefits" we will reap if we celebrate "Pitramavasya"

on that actual Dipavali i.e. October 2, 2005, just because our "Vedic

Panchnagamaker" or "Vedic Jyotishi" has advised us to do so! It means we have

really lost our cultural moorings since we cannot differentiate between the

real Vedic festivals/phenomena and the artificial ones!

 

For further details, please see BVB6 at HinduClendar forum etc.

 

With kind regards,

Avtar Krishen Kaul

President

All India Calendar Reform Committee

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web.

vedic astrology

 

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Shri Bharatji,

Namaskar!

Glad that at least someone has responded!

 

My "background" is given in "Koshur6.doc" which is already avilable on

this forum! Similarly, the criteria for fixing the festivals on

correct dates has been given in "BVB6.doc" and that also is available

on this august forum!

 

Would you kindly go through them and then clarify the points raised by

me since we are just groping in dark otherwise!

With regards,

Avtar Krishen Kaul

vedic astrology, Bharat Hindu Astrology

<hinduastrology@g...> wrote:

> Namaskaar All

>

> This fellow wrote earlier in Jyotish group and Sri Finn Windhall and

Sri

> Chandrashekhar shared his not so delightful background with us.

>

> I do not think any more time should be wasted on him.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

>

> On 9/20/05, jyotirved <jyotirved@s...> wrote:

> >

> > Dear friends,

> > Namaskar!

> > Much to the chagrin of "Vedic astrologers", we do not find any

"Rashis"

> > (astrological signs) like Mesha, Vrisha etc. in any of the Vedas!

This is

> > not only my contention but this is the unanimous conclusion of

quite a few

> > scholars like Pt. Balkrishan Dikshit (Bharatiya Jyotish), Shri Bal

Gangadhar

> > Tilak (The Orion), Dr. S. Balachandra Rao (Indian Mathematics &

Astronomy)

> > etc. etc. All these details are available in Rashi5.doc at

HinduCalendar

> > and some other forums.

> > Same is the case with the very first astronomical work viz. the

Vedanga

> > Jyotisha (also known as Rik-Jyotisham and/or Yajur-Jyotisham) by

Maharshi

> > Lagadha. Except for the sun and the moon, it does not refer to any

other

> > planet either! This astronomical work was compiled definitely not

later than

> > thirteenth century BCE (about five thousand years back!) in or around

> > Kashmir (J & K State). Similarly, Atharva Jyotisha of about fifth

century

> > BCE also is quite silent about Rashis!

> > Does it mean that our real Vedic Vamadevas and original Parasharas

> > (instead of "imported Vamadevas" and "Abhinav Parasharas") never

celebrated

> > any Makar Sankranti then which is also known as Pongal in South

India,

> > Shishir Sankranti in J & K; Makaradi snan in Bengal etc. and so

on? Does it

> > mean also that by celebrating Makar etc. Sankrantis these days we

are just

> > wasting our time and money and energy?

> > This question has two answers -- YES and NO!

> > YES, because the Makar etc. Sankrantis we are clebrating today are

either

> > Lahiri or Raman or Kharegat or Cyril Fagan or Tilaka or

Grahalaghava etc.

> > Sankrantis --- all of them being advocated by one or the other

"Jyotishi"

> > because they find their astrological predictions more accurate if

they base

> > them on that particular Rashichakra! It means that all such

Sankrantis are

> > predictive astrologers' sankrantis and not of our Vedic Rishis!

> > Now the next answer NO! Because the real Vedic Rishis did celebrate

> > "Makar Sankranti" but instead of calling it Makar Ingress they

called it

> > Udagayana or Uttarayana! Why did they do so? Because the sun's

declination

> > really turns Uttara that is towards North then! They also called

it the

> > month of Tapah because being the middle of Winter, it was the

month most

> > suitable for penance (tapasya!). The later Puranas and the

itithasas also

> > refer to Uttarayana etc. with the only difference that we find

Rashis in

> > some of the Puranas like Shrimad Bhagavata and Shri Vishnu Purana

etc. but

> > they have made Makara Sankranti a synonym of Uttarayana, Karka

Sankranti a

> > synonym of Dakshinayana and so on! It may be news to some of the

"Vedic

> > jyotishis" that there are no Rashis in the Mahabharata either!

> > Surprisingly, the period starting with "Uttarayana" which is

nothing but

> > a Sanskrit equivalent of Winter Solstice, is known as "Chilla

Kalan" in

> > Kashmir! Chilla is a Persian synonym of "Tapasya"! The sixty day

period of

> > Chilla Kalan, Chilla Khurd and Chilla Bacha comprise the two Vedic

months of

> > Tapah and Tapasya! It means clearly that our festivals were

related to

> > seasons and even Persian scholars acknowledged it! But somehow,

our "Vedic

> > scholars" who call themselves "Vedic Jyotishis" are unaware of

this fact! It

> > is also a tragic truth that these "Vedic astrologers" are quite

oblivious to

> > the fact that for the real Vedic Rishis the Udagayana or

Uttarayana was one

> > of the most important "festivals" of the whole year and there are

> > innumerable references to it in almost all the Vedas! Obviously,

our "Vedic

> > scholars" of today do not refer to such festivals even obliquely

in any of

> > their works because that will hinder their "predictive" activities!

> > Lunar Tapah, Tapasya etc. names got linked to solar months later

on. This

> > also is clear from the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.!

> > A solar New Year starts these days with Meshadi -- transit of the

sun

> > into Mesha. Since there are no Mesha etc. Rashsi in the Vedas, or the

> > Vedanga Jyotisha, does it mean that our Vedic Vamadevas and

Parasharas

> > (unlike their modern counterfeits) never celebrated a solar New Year?

> > Again this question has two answers: YES and NO!

> > The reasons for both the answers i.e. the affirmative and

negative are

> > the same as in the case of Makar Sanrkanti because for our Vedic

Rishis, the

> > solar New Year started with the Spring Equinox, known as Vasanta

Sampat,

> > Vishuvan in the Vedas. The simple reason is that this also is one

of the

> > most important phenomena of the sun and it is also the start of

the Vedic

> > month Madhava -- the second month of the Vasanta i.e. Spring season!

> > Now that we have seen that there ae no Rashis in the Vedas, it is

futile

> > to argue whether our Vedic Rishis were following a so called sayana

> > Rashickara or a non-existent nirayana Rashichakra! It is in fact

an insult

> > to our Vedic Rishis to say that they were following some Lahiri or

Ramana or

> > Kharegat or Cyril Fagan etc. Rashichakra since that means that

those Rishis

> > were subservient to these "modern" Vamadevas and Parasharas and

must have

> > been waiting for these "exalted souls" to be born in Kaliyuga so

that those

> > Rishis could celebrate their rituals and festivals under the proper

> > "tutelage" of these Kaliyugi Jyotishis!

> > Thus the Chaitra, Vaishakha, Jyeshtha etc. months, whether solar or

> > lunar, that we are following these days are meaningless as these

have been

> > "re-calibrated" by predictive astrolgoers to correlate their

predictions to

> > the same! We are thus ahead by at least one lunar month

(twenty-four solar

> > days as on date!) of the real Vedic solar and lunar months! This

has made

> > everything topsy-turvy with the result that Lunar Kartika Shukla

Paksha

> > (instead of Lunar Ashvina Shukla Paksha) will actually start on

October 4,

> > 2005, and Amavasya being present at the Pradosha/Nishitha of

October 2,

> > 2005, that is the real Dipavalai!

> > We can well imagine the "benefits" we will reap if we celebrate

> > "Pitramavasya" on that actual Dipavali i.e. October 2, 2005, just

because

> > our "Vedic Panchnagamaker" or "Vedic Jyotishi" has advised us to

do so! It

> > means we have really lost our cultural moorings since we cannot

> > differentiate between the real Vedic festivals/phenomena and the

artificial

> > ones!

> > For further details, please see BVB6 at HinduClendar forum etc.

> > With kind regards,

> > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> > President

> > All India Calendar Reform Committee

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------

> >

> >

> >

> > - Visit your group

"vedic astrology<vedic astrology>"

> > on the web.

> > -

> >

vedic astrology<vedic astrology-@gro\

ups.com?subject=Un>

> > - Terms of

> > Service <>.

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------

> >

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Shri Bharatji,

Namaskar!

Glad that at least there is some response!

My "background" is an open book and can be seen from "Koshur6.doc"

available on this august forum. Similarly, regarding the real

criteria of festivals, kindly go through "BVB6.doc" also avilable on

this forum. We can compare notes only after you have gone through

those files! I would also appreciate if you really give some cogent

reasons as to how we are celebrating our festivals on correct days by

subscribing to a Lahiri or Raman or Fagan Rashjichakra!

With regards,

Avtar Krishen Kaul

vedic astrology, Bharat Hindu Astrology

<hinduastrology@g...> wrote:

> Namaskaar All

>

> This fellow wrote earlier in Jyotish group and Sri Finn Windhall and

Sri

> Chandrashekhar shared his not so delightful background with us.

>

> I do not think any more time should be wasted on him.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

>

> On 9/20/05, jyotirved <jyotirved@s...> wrote:

> >

> > Dear friends,

> > Namaskar!

> > Much to the chagrin of "Vedic astrologers", we do not find any

"Rashis"

> > (astrological signs) like Mesha, Vrisha etc. in any of the Vedas!

This is

> > not only my contention but this is the unanimous conclusion of

quite a few

> > scholars like Pt. Balkrishan Dikshit (Bharatiya Jyotish), Shri Bal

Gangadhar

> > Tilak (The Orion), Dr. S. Balachandra Rao (Indian Mathematics &

Astronomy)

> > etc. etc. All these details are available in Rashi5.doc at

HinduCalendar

> > and some other forums.

> > Same is the case with the very first astronomical work viz. the

Vedanga

> > Jyotisha (also known as Rik-Jyotisham and/or Yajur-Jyotisham) by

Maharshi

> > Lagadha. Except for the sun and the moon, it does not refer to any

other

> > planet either! This astronomical work was compiled definitely not

later than

> > thirteenth century BCE (about five thousand years back!) in or around

> > Kashmir (J & K State). Similarly, Atharva Jyotisha of about fifth

century

> > BCE also is quite silent about Rashis!

> > Does it mean that our real Vedic Vamadevas and original Parasharas

> > (instead of "imported Vamadevas" and "Abhinav Parasharas") never

celebrated

> > any Makar Sankranti then which is also known as Pongal in South

India,

> > Shishir Sankranti in J & K; Makaradi snan in Bengal etc. and so

on? Does it

> > mean also that by celebrating Makar etc. Sankrantis these days we

are just

> > wasting our time and money and energy?

> > This question has two answers -- YES and NO!

> > YES, because the Makar etc. Sankrantis we are clebrating today are

either

> > Lahiri or Raman or Kharegat or Cyril Fagan or Tilaka or

Grahalaghava etc.

> > Sankrantis --- all of them being advocated by one or the other

"Jyotishi"

> > because they find their astrological predictions more accurate if

they base

> > them on that particular Rashichakra! It means that all such

Sankrantis are

> > predictive astrologers' sankrantis and not of our Vedic Rishis!

> > Now the next answer NO! Because the real Vedic Rishis did celebrate

> > "Makar Sankranti" but instead of calling it Makar Ingress they

called it

> > Udagayana or Uttarayana! Why did they do so? Because the sun's

declination

> > really turns Uttara that is towards North then! They also called

it the

> > month of Tapah because being the middle of Winter, it was the

month most

> > suitable for penance (tapasya!). The later Puranas and the

itithasas also

> > refer to Uttarayana etc. with the only difference that we find

Rashis in

> > some of the Puranas like Shrimad Bhagavata and Shri Vishnu Purana

etc. but

> > they have made Makara Sankranti a synonym of Uttarayana, Karka

Sankranti a

> > synonym of Dakshinayana and so on! It may be news to some of the

"Vedic

> > jyotishis" that there are no Rashis in the Mahabharata either!

> > Surprisingly, the period starting with "Uttarayana" which is

nothing but

> > a Sanskrit equivalent of Winter Solstice, is known as "Chilla

Kalan" in

> > Kashmir! Chilla is a Persian synonym of "Tapasya"! The sixty day

period of

> > Chilla Kalan, Chilla Khurd and Chilla Bacha comprise the two Vedic

months of

> > Tapah and Tapasya! It means clearly that our festivals were

related to

> > seasons and even Persian scholars acknowledged it! But somehow,

our "Vedic

> > scholars" who call themselves "Vedic Jyotishis" are unaware of

this fact! It

> > is also a tragic truth that these "Vedic astrologers" are quite

oblivious to

> > the fact that for the real Vedic Rishis the Udagayana or

Uttarayana was one

> > of the most important "festivals" of the whole year and there are

> > innumerable references to it in almost all the Vedas! Obviously,

our "Vedic

> > scholars" of today do not refer to such festivals even obliquely

in any of

> > their works because that will hinder their "predictive" activities!

> > Lunar Tapah, Tapasya etc. names got linked to solar months later

on. This

> > also is clear from the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.!

> > A solar New Year starts these days with Meshadi -- transit of the

sun

> > into Mesha. Since there are no Mesha etc. Rashsi in the Vedas, or the

> > Vedanga Jyotisha, does it mean that our Vedic Vamadevas and

Parasharas

> > (unlike their modern counterfeits) never celebrated a solar New Year?

> > Again this question has two answers: YES and NO!

> > The reasons for both the answers i.e. the affirmative and

negative are

> > the same as in the case of Makar Sanrkanti because for our Vedic

Rishis, the

> > solar New Year started with the Spring Equinox, known as Vasanta

Sampat,

> > Vishuvan in the Vedas. The simple reason is that this also is one

of the

> > most important phenomena of the sun and it is also the start of

the Vedic

> > month Madhava -- the second month of the Vasanta i.e. Spring season!

> > Now that we have seen that there ae no Rashis in the Vedas, it is

futile

> > to argue whether our Vedic Rishis were following a so called sayana

> > Rashickara or a non-existent nirayana Rashichakra! It is in fact

an insult

> > to our Vedic Rishis to say that they were following some Lahiri or

Ramana or

> > Kharegat or Cyril Fagan etc. Rashichakra since that means that

those Rishis

> > were subservient to these "modern" Vamadevas and Parasharas and

must have

> > been waiting for these "exalted souls" to be born in Kaliyuga so

that those

> > Rishis could celebrate their rituals and festivals under the proper

> > "tutelage" of these Kaliyugi Jyotishis!

> > Thus the Chaitra, Vaishakha, Jyeshtha etc. months, whether solar or

> > lunar, that we are following these days are meaningless as these

have been

> > "re-calibrated" by predictive astrolgoers to correlate their

predictions to

> > the same! We are thus ahead by at least one lunar month

(twenty-four solar

> > days as on date!) of the real Vedic solar and lunar months! This

has made

> > everything topsy-turvy with the result that Lunar Kartika Shukla

Paksha

> > (instead of Lunar Ashvina Shukla Paksha) will actually start on

October 4,

> > 2005, and Amavasya being present at the Pradosha/Nishitha of

October 2,

> > 2005, that is the real Dipavalai!

> > We can well imagine the "benefits" we will reap if we celebrate

> > "Pitramavasya" on that actual Dipavali i.e. October 2, 2005, just

because

> > our "Vedic Panchnagamaker" or "Vedic Jyotishi" has advised us to

do so! It

> > means we have really lost our cultural moorings since we cannot

> > differentiate between the real Vedic festivals/phenomena and the

artificial

> > ones!

> > For further details, please see BVB6 at HinduClendar forum etc.

> > With kind regards,

> > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> > President

> > All India Calendar Reform Committee

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------

> >

> >

> >

> > - Visit your group

"vedic astrology<vedic astrology>"

> > on the web.

> > -

> >

vedic astrology<vedic astrology-@gro\

ups.com?subject=Un>

> > - Terms of

> > Service <>.

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------

> >

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On your persuasion, I read your article at

http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_celebrate_in_time.htm. I found your

thought to be interesting. I do not believe you yet.

I am also surprised at the silence of the responses you got from

Jyotish group. They had given responses to each of your arguments.

I am not an expert in these matters and neither can I claim to have

read all the books (especially the ones you mention in your article).

In the meantime, I also would like to invite you to share the

comparisons that you claim you have done between the western and the

prevalent hindu systems. Please show us by the way of charts.

Having said that, I am yet to meet an astrologer (both hindu or

western) who lays claim to 100% accuracy. The fact is, it is just not

possible. I had written about it in the Jyotish Group, why predictions

cannot be 100% accurate. (Please read my comments in Essence of Jyotish

thread).These are in view of Purushhartha.

Your raise a pointing finger at hindu astrologers of being non-Vedic.

By not celebrating festivals on their "desired date by you", do they

become non-vedic? I further ask you, when where these festivals

celebrated in the eighteenth and the nineteenth century? Do you have

documental proof of their celebration otherwise? If yes, why have you

not shared it so far?

To prove your point, why do you have to show the other down?

What is the history of Ayanamsha? I am sure, in your researches you

would have found answer to this question. Please share it with us.

You claim to have read Vedas in chaste Sanskrit. What rules of Sanskrit did you

use? Was Panini before Vedas or after?

How do 16 sutras of Atharvana Veda make up the entire Vedic

mathematics? I read it can solve complex trignometry equations - but

Vedas never mentioned the word "trignometry". Should I conclude all

this is made up?

The reason for my email is not to say this or that is correct but

asking us to think. How can we say what is correct in light of the

know-how that many texts, especially that of Astrology, were destroyed

by our invaders, including the prime universities at Takshashila and

Nalanda?

I leave the question open for other to give their views.

Thanks & Regards

Bharat

On 9/20/05, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved (AT) sify (DOT) com> wrote:

Shri Bharatji,

Namaskar!

Glad that at least someone has responded!

My "background" is given in "Koshur6.doc" which is already avilable on

this forum! Similarly, the criteria for fixing the festivals on

correct dates has been given in "BVB6.doc" and that also is available

on this august forum!

Would you kindly go through them and then clarify the points raised by

me since we are just groping in dark otherwise!

With regards,

Avtar Krishen Kaul

vedic astrology, Bharat Hindu Astrology

<hinduastrology@g...> wrote:

> Namaskaar All

>

> This fellow wrote earlier in Jyotish group and Sri Finn Windhall and

Sri

> Chandrashekhar shared his not so delightful background with us.

>

> I do not think any more time should be wasted on him.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

>

> On 9/20/05, jyotirved <jyotirved@s...> wrote:

> >

> > Dear friends,

> > Namaskar!

> > Much to the chagrin of "Vedic astrologers", we do not find any

"Rashis"

> > (astrological signs) like Mesha, Vrisha etc. in any of the Vedas!

This is

> > not only my contention but this is the unanimous conclusion of

quite a few

> > scholars like Pt. Balkrishan Dikshit (Bharatiya Jyotish), Shri Bal

Gangadhar

> > Tilak (The Orion), Dr. S. Balachandra Rao (Indian Mathematics &

Astronomy)

> > etc. etc. All these details are available in Rashi5.doc at

HinduCalendar

> > and some other forums.

> > Same is the case with the very first astronomical work viz. the

Vedanga

> > Jyotisha (also known as Rik-Jyotisham and/or Yajur-Jyotisham) by

Maharshi

> > Lagadha. Except for the sun and the moon, it does not refer to any

other

> > planet either! This astronomical work was compiled definitely not

later than

> > thirteenth century BCE (about five thousand years back!) in or around

> > Kashmir (J & K State). Similarly, Atharva Jyotisha of about fifth

century

> > BCE also is quite silent about Rashis!

> > Does it mean that our real Vedic Vamadevas and original Parasharas

> > (instead of "imported Vamadevas" and "Abhinav Parasharas") never

celebrated

> > any Makar Sankranti then which is also known as Pongal in South

India,

> > Shishir Sankranti in J & K; Makaradi snan in Bengal etc. and so

on? Does it

> > mean also that by celebrating Makar etc. Sankrantis these days we

are just

> > wasting our time and money and energy?

> > This question has two answers -- YES and NO!

> > YES, because the Makar etc. Sankrantis we are clebrating today are

either

> > Lahiri or Raman or Kharegat or Cyril Fagan or Tilaka or

Grahalaghava etc.

> > Sankrantis --- all of them being advocated by one or the other

"Jyotishi"

> > because they find their astrological predictions more accurate if

they base

> > them on that particular Rashichakra! It means that all such

Sankrantis are

> > predictive astrologers' sankrantis and not of our Vedic Rishis!

> > Now the next answer NO! Because the real Vedic Rishis did celebrate

> > "Makar Sankranti" but instead of calling it Makar Ingress they

called it

> > Udagayana or Uttarayana! Why did they do so? Because the sun's

declination

> > really turns Uttara that is towards North then! They also called

it the

> > month of Tapah because being the middle of Winter, it was the

month most

> > suitable for penance (tapasya!). The later Puranas and the

itithasas also

> > refer to Uttarayana etc. with the only difference that we find

Rashis in

> > some of the Puranas like Shrimad Bhagavata and Shri Vishnu Purana

etc. but

> > they have made Makara Sankranti a synonym of Uttarayana, Karka

Sankranti a

> > synonym of Dakshinayana and so on! It may be news to some of the

"Vedic

> > jyotishis" that there are no Rashis in the Mahabharata either!

> > Surprisingly, the period starting with "Uttarayana" which is

nothing but

> > a Sanskrit equivalent of Winter Solstice, is known as "Chilla

Kalan" in

> > Kashmir! Chilla is a Persian synonym of "Tapasya"! The sixty day

period of

> > Chilla Kalan, Chilla Khurd and Chilla Bacha comprise the two Vedic

months of

> > Tapah and Tapasya! It means clearly that our festivals were

related to

> > seasons and even Persian scholars acknowledged it! But somehow,

our "Vedic

> > scholars" who call themselves "Vedic Jyotishis" are unaware of

this fact! It

> > is also a tragic truth that these "Vedic astrologers" are quite

oblivious to

> > the fact that for the real Vedic Rishis the Udagayana or

Uttarayana was one

> > of the most important "festivals" of the whole year and there are

> > innumerable references to it in almost all the Vedas! Obviously,

our "Vedic

> > scholars" of today do not refer to such festivals even obliquely

in any of

> > their works because that will hinder their "predictive" activities!

> > Lunar Tapah, Tapasya etc. names got linked to solar months later

on. This

> > also is clear from the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.!

> > A solar New Year starts these days with Meshadi -- transit of the

sun

> > into Mesha. Since there are no Mesha etc. Rashsi in the Vedas, or the

> > Vedanga Jyotisha, does it mean that our Vedic Vamadevas and

Parasharas

> > (unlike their modern counterfeits) never celebrated a solar New Year?

> > Again this question has two answers: YES and NO!

> > The reasons for both the answers i.e. the affirmative and

negative are

> > the same as in the case of Makar Sanrkanti because for our Vedic

Rishis, the

> > solar New Year started with the Spring Equinox, known as Vasanta

Sampat,

> > Vishuvan in the Vedas. The simple reason is that this also is one

of the

> > most important phenomena of the sun and it is also the start of

the Vedic

> > month Madhava -- the second month of the Vasanta i.e. Spring season!

> > Now that we have seen that there ae no Rashis in the Vedas, it is

futile

> > to argue whether our Vedic Rishis were following a so called sayana

> > Rashickara or a non-existent nirayana Rashichakra! It is in fact

an insult

> > to our Vedic Rishis to say that they were following some Lahiri or

Ramana or

> > Kharegat or Cyril Fagan etc. Rashichakra since that means that

those Rishis

> > were subservient to these "modern" Vamadevas and Parasharas and

must have

> > been waiting for these "exalted souls" to be born in Kaliyuga so

that those

> > Rishis could celebrate their rituals and festivals under the proper

> > "tutelage" of these Kaliyugi Jyotishis!

> > Thus the Chaitra, Vaishakha, Jyeshtha etc. months, whether solar or

> > lunar, that we are following these days are meaningless as these

have been

> > "re-calibrated" by predictive astrolgoers to correlate their

predictions to

> > the same! We are thus ahead by at least one lunar month

(twenty-four solar

> > days as on date!) of the real Vedic solar and lunar months! This

has made

> > everything topsy-turvy with the result that Lunar Kartika Shukla

Paksha

> > (instead of Lunar Ashvina Shukla Paksha) will actually start on

October 4,

> > 2005, and Amavasya being present at the Pradosha/Nishitha of

October 2,

> > 2005, that is the real Dipavalai!

> > We can well imagine the "benefits" we will reap if we celebrate

> > "Pitramavasya" on that actual Dipavali i.e. October 2, 2005, just

because

> > our "Vedic Panchnagamaker" or "Vedic Jyotishi" has advised us to

do so! It

> > means we have really lost our cultural moorings since we cannot

> > differentiate between the real Vedic festivals/phenomena and the

artificial

> > ones!

> > For further details, please see BVB6 at HinduClendar forum etc.

> > With kind regards,

> > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> > President

> > All India Calendar Reform Committee

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------

> >

> >

> >

> > - Visit your group

"vedic astrology<vedic astrology>"

> > on the web.

> > -

> >

vedic astrology<

vedic astrology?subject=Un>

> > - Terms of

> > Service <>.

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------

> >

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Astrology chart

Astrology reading

Vedic astrology

Divination tool

 

 

Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web.

vedic astrology

 

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Shri Bharatji,

Namaskar!

I checked once again my but I am not a member of any

Jyotisha group as on date,except for this Vedic-astrology forum, nor

do I remember ever having joined such group. In any case, could you

kindly post all your queries, that you say remained unanswered, on

"Jyotisha" forum on this forum now. Please also kindly give me the

address of that forum/website and the number, date and month of your

posting of that enquiry on that forum.

 

Only after receiving your response, I shall deal with the rest of your

questions since may be those questions have already been replied by me

and just possible the reply was not posted on that website -- that

does happen very often, if the replies are inconvenient!

 

With regards,

Avtar Krishen Kaul

vedic astrology, Bharat Hindu Astrology

<hinduastrology@g...> wrote:

> Namaskaar Sri Avtar

>

> On your persuasion, I read your article at

> http://www.aryasamaj.org/eng_art/do_celebrate_in_time.htm. I found your

> thought to be interesting. I do not believe you yet.

>

> I am also surprised at the silence of the responses you got from

Jyotish

> group. They had given responses to each of your arguments.

>

> I am not an expert in these matters and neither can I claim to have

read all

> the books (especially the ones you mention in your article).

>

> In the meantime, I also would like to invite you to share the

comparisons

> that you claim you have done between the western and the prevalent

hindu

> systems. Please show us by the way of charts.

>

> Having said that, I am yet to meet an astrologer (both hindu or

western) who

> lays claim to 100% accuracy. The fact is, it is just not possible. I

had

> written about it in the Jyotish Group, why predictions cannot be 100%

> accurate. (Please read my comments in Essence of Jyotish

thread).These are

> in view of Purushhartha.

>

> Your raise a pointing finger at hindu astrologers of being

non-Vedic. By not

> celebrating festivals on their "desired date by you", do they become

> non-vedic? I further ask you, when where these festivals celebrated

in the

> eighteenth and the nineteenth century? Do you have documental proof

of their

> celebration otherwise? If yes, why have you not shared it so far?

>

> To prove your point, why do you have to show the other down?

>

> What is the history of Ayanamsha? I am sure, in your researches you

would

> have found answer to this question. Please share it with us.

>

> You claim to have read Vedas in chaste Sanskrit. What rules of

Sanskrit did

> you use? Was Panini before Vedas or after?

>

> How do 16 sutras of Atharvana Veda make up the entire Vedic

mathematics? I

> read it can solve complex trignometry equations - but Vedas never

mentioned

> the word "trignometry". Should I conclude all this is made up?

>

> The reason for my email is not to say this or that is correct but

asking us

> to think. How can we say what is correct in light of the know-how

that many

> texts, especially that of Astrology, were destroyed by our invaders,

> including the prime universities at Takshashila and Nalanda?

>

> I leave the question open for other to give their views.

>

> Thanks & Regards

> Bharat

>

>

>

>

>

> On 9/20/05, Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@s...> wrote:

> >

> > Shri Bharatji,

> > Namaskar!

> > Glad that at least someone has responded!

> >

> > My "background" is given in "Koshur6.doc" which is already avilable on

> > this forum! Similarly, the criteria for fixing the festivals on

> > correct dates has been given in "BVB6.doc" and that also is available

> > on this august forum!

> >

> > Would you kindly go through them and then clarify the points raised by

> > me since we are just groping in dark otherwise!

> > With regards,

> > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> > vedic astrology, Bharat Hindu Astrology

> > <hinduastrology@g...> wrote:

> > > Namaskaar All

> > >

> > > This fellow wrote earlier in Jyotish group and Sri Finn Windhall and

> > Sri

> > > Chandrashekhar shared his not so delightful background with us.

> > >

> > > I do not think any more time should be wasted on him.

> > >

> > > Thanks and Regards

> > > Bharat

> > >

> > >

> > > On 9/20/05, jyotirved <jyotirved@s...> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear friends,

> > > > Namaskar!

> > > > Much to the chagrin of "Vedic astrologers", we do not find any

> > "Rashis"

> > > > (astrological signs) like Mesha, Vrisha etc. in any of the Vedas!

> > This is

> >

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