Cn and Le Riddle ((Multiple replies) RE: New method...)

[Guest guest]

oM DAKSHINAMORTIAH NAMAH

 

WELL THis logic would have been fine if

 

all signs from leo to capricon would have been considered for sun

hora (day sign)

 

and rest for night sign,

 

But day strong and night strong signs are nt exactly defined that way

and cancer is considered as night strong and leo the otherwise

 

This is in defination itself

thanks

rajesh

 

vedic astrology, "Raman Suprajarama"

<cru115@n...> wrote:

> Dear Sri Chandrashekar,

>

>

>

> "àyaejnm! - sUyRhaeraya< jataStejiSvníNÔSy haeraya< m&ÊSvÉava

ÉviNt,

>

> prayojanam - süryahoräyäà jätästejasvinaçcandrasya horäyäà

mådusvabhävä

>

> bhavanti|"

>

>

>

> So at least as far as interpretation of Bhattopal goes this (Surya

as

>

> first horesha and Chandra as second horesha for Vishama and

reverse for

>

> Sama) has to do with the nature of Jataka.

>

>

>

> The commentary of Bhattotpala can be interpreted as "if a planet

is in the

> hora of Surya, the planet will be strong (tejashwini) and if it is

in the

> hora of Chandra, the planet will be mild (madhu)". Dr. Raman

applied this

> sentence in the area of remedial measures. If an evil planet is in

the Hora

> of Sun, the remedial measure prescribed should be very powerful to

ward off

> evil doshas and if it is in the Hora of Moon, the measures

prescribed can be

> less powerful.

>

>

>

> Govindhabhattatiri, while commenting on this sloka of Varahamihira

writes

> "Nishaaraashayo Nishaphaladhaah Dinaraashayo divaaphaladha iti"

>

>

>

> Actually

>

> if for Sama rasi 3rd house is considered as giving 2nd Hora, this

would

>

> be even more logical count being reverse and Parakrama of a person

has

>

> as much bearing on his wealth as his income.

>

>

>

> It all depends on how we interpret the word "parivruthhidwayam".

Parivruthi

> can mean exchange.

>

>

>

> Om Tat Sat,

>

>

>

> Raman Suprajarama

>

>

[] On

> Behalf Of Chandrashekhar

> Saturday, August 20, 2005 1:03 AM

>

> Re: Re: Cn and Le Riddle (Re: (Multiple

replies) RE:

> New method...)

>

>

>

> Dear Narasimha,

>

> I accept that Varahamihira said that the opinion about Rasi lord

being

>

> lord of the first Hora and Lord of the 11th the 2nd Hora is of

other

>

> Acharyas. The fact of the shloka preceding it is as you say about

first

>

> Hora being of Sun and second of Moon.

>

>

>

> Having said that, may I point out that Bhattotpal in his

commentary says

>

> about the reason of allotting First Hora to Sun and second to Moon

as:

>

> "àyaejnm! - sUyRhaeraya< jataStejiSvníNÔSy haeraya< m&ÊSvÉava

ÉviNt,

>

> prayojanam - süryahoräyäà jätästejasvinaçcandrasya horäyäà

mådusvabhävä

>

> bhavanti|"

>

>

>

> So at least as far as interpretation of Bhattopal goes this (Surya

as

>

> first horesha and Chandra as second horesha for Vishama and

reverse for

>

> Sama) has to do with the nature of Jataka.

>

>

>

> Now if we relate this to what Parashara has said:

>

> tT]eÇ< tSy oeqSy razeyaeR ySy nayk>,

>

> tatkñetraà tasya kheöasya räçeryo yasya näyakaù|

>

> sUyeRNÖaeivR;me razaE sme tiÖprItkm!.5.

>

> süryendvorviñame räçau same tadviparétakam||5||

>

> iptríNÔhaereza deva> sUyRSy kIitRta>,

>

> pitaraçcandrahoreçä deväù süryasya kértitäù|

>

> razerÏ¡ ÉveÏaera taítuiv¡zit> Sm&ta>.

>

> räçerarddhaà bhaveddhorä täçcaturviàçatiù småtäù||

>

> me;aid tasa< haera[a< pirv&iÄÖy< Évet!.6.

>

> meñädi täsäà horäëäà parivåttidvayaà bhavet||6||

>

>

>

> Here contrary to what is interpreted it appears, at least to me

with my

>

> limited knowledge, what is being said is that Surya's devata

(first

>

> hora in Vishama rasi and second Hora of Sama rasi) is Deva and

that of

>

> Chandra (first Hora of Sama rasi and second Hora of Vishama Rasi)

the

>

> Devata is Pitara and he is talking about Parivritti dvaya Hora

clearly

>

> and not as Horas being lorded over by Sun and Moon for Vishama

rasi and

>

> the other way round for Sama rasi. So there appears to be much

confusion

>

> about what Parashara has said. Many astrologers appear to project

as if

>

> Parashara has said first Hora in Vishama rasi belonging to rasi of

Sun

>

> and second to the Moon means they fall in Leo and Cancer rasis.

The

>

> above shloka of BPHS, does not seem to suggest that. Rather it is

said

>

> by Varahamihira in his Brihajjatakam. But even here Bhattotpala

>

> commentary gives a new direction to that and appears to be more

logical.

>

>

>

> Again my point is that since Parashara says one should look at

wealth

>

> from Hora chart and 11th house Lord being Labhesha giving one of

the two

>

> Horas of a rasi, depending on whether the Rasi is Sama or Vishama

>

> appears to be more in line with areas of influence of Bhavas.

Actually

>

> if for Sama rasi 3rd house is considered as giving 2nd Hora, this

would

>

> be even more logical count being reverse and Parakrama of a person

has

>

> as much bearing on his wealth as his income.

>

>

>

> Of course what I have said may appear to be not in line with what

is

>

> believed to be said by Parashara to those more learned than me.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Chandrashekhar.

>

>

>

> Narasimha P.V.R. Rao wrote:

>

>

>

> > Dear Chandrashekhar ji,

>

> >

>

> > > Would you care to explain the source for mapping them to Surya

or

>

> > > Chandra and then on to day or night rasis, which I presume is

being

>

> > > discussed. Or are you talking about some different shloka?

>

> >

>

> > There is a verse in Brihajjatakam just before the verse you

quoted,

>

> > which defines the first/second horas in odd signs as Sun's and

Moon's

>

> > horas and reverse in even signs. Parasara also defined the same

way in

>

> > BPHS.

>

> >

>

> > In fact, it is not clear that the view in the verse you quoted

below

>

> > is Varahamihira's. He defined the Sun/Moon based hora as if it

was his

>

> > own view and mentioned this 1st lord/11th lord based method as

if it

>

> > was the view of "some others". That is how Sri B. Suryanarain

Rao

>

> > (Raman Suprajarama's grandfather's grandfather) interpreted in

his

>

> > translation of Brihajjatakam. He felt that the definition based

on

>

> > Sun's and Moon's horas was Varahamihira's view and the other

1st/11th

>

> > method was that of others. Moreover, Sri Rao felt based on his

>

> > experience that Varahamihira was more correct.

>

> >

>

> > At SJC, we use Kashinatha Hora, which builds on the concept of

>

> > Sun's/Moon's horas and uses day signs and night signs.

>

> >

>

> > Raman Suprajarama's innovation is to mix this approach with the

>

> > 1st/11th method. His hora is identical to SJC's Kashinatha Hora

if all

>

> > planets are in the first 15 deg of signs. In the second halves,

he

>

> > takes the 11th. His idea is that what seem like two different

methods

>

> > mentioned by Varahamihira are actually one single method and

>

> > Varahamihira encrypted it. It is plausible. At the same time, it

is

>

> > debatable.

>

> >

>

> > May Jupiter's light shine on us,

>

> > Narasimha

>

> > -------------------------------

>

> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

>

> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

>

> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

>

> > -------------------------------

>

> >

>

> > > Dear Raman, Narasimha,

>

> > >

>

> > > If I remember right Raman had referred to Varahamihira's

Brihajjatakam

>

> > > as a source or inspiration for the Hora chart he proposed. If

I am

>

> > > right, Varahamihira says:

>

> > >

>

> > > keicÄu haera< àwma< ÉpSy vaÁDiNt laÉaixpteiÖRtIyam!,

>

> > >

>

> > > kecittu horäà prathamäà bhapasya väïchanti

läbhädhipaterdvitéyäm|

>

> > >

>

> > > Ôe:ka[s<}amip v[RyiNt SvÖadzEkadzraizpanam!.12.

>

> > >

>

> > > dreñkäëasaïjïämapi varëayanti svadvädaçaikädaçaräçipänäm||12||

>

> > >

>

> > > Here no reference to first Hora of Sun or Moon is mentioned,

if my

>

> > > understanding is correct, he talks about first Hora being of

the

>

> > Lord of

>

> > > the rasi and second of the 11th lord. Or rather Varahamihira

says that

>

> > > some Acharyas hold that opinion.

>

> > >

>

> > > Then there is a reference in a Vriddha Karika that:

>

> > >

>

> > > razerx¡ ÉveÏaera ta> ctuiv¡zit> Sm&ta>,

>

> > >

>

> > > räçerardhaà bhaveddhorä täù caturviàçatiù småtäù|

>

> > >

>

> > > me;aid tasa< haera[a< pirv&iÄÖy< Évet!.

>

> > >

>

> > > meñädi täsäà horäëäà parivåttidvayaà bhavet||

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > This means that first Hora is of Mesha in Mesha rasi second

Hora of

>

> > > Mesha rasi is Vrishabha and so on twice round the rasi chakra.

In both

>

> > > cases, the talk is about Rasi Hora and not about Surya or

Chandra Hora.

>

> > > Therefore the reference to day or night rasi representing

Surya or

>

> > > Chandra is something that I am not able to follow.

>

> > >

>

> > > Would you care to explain the source for mapping them to Surya

or

>

> > > Chandra and then on to day or night rasis, which I presume is

being

>

> > > discussed. Or are you talking about some different shloka?

>

> > > Regards,

>

> > > Chandrashekhar.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Vedic astrology

>

> >

> </gads?

t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic+astrology&w2=J

> yotish&w3=Vedic&w4=Astrological+chart&c=4&s=69&.sig=-

GBj8BOzVbQ8GK9t0LYOxw>

>

> > Jyotish

>

> >

> </gads?

t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic+astrology&w2=Jyotish&w

> 3=Vedic&w4=Astrological+chart&c=4&s=69&.sig=1Oqz8QaIYh3il4-

yFlCbRQ>

>

> > Vedic

>

> >

> </gads?

t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic+astrology&w2=Jyotish&w3=

> Vedic&w4=Astrological+chart&c=4&s=69&.sig=xM6K96f1bttsnwk2GGVngw>

>

> >

>

> > Astrological chart

>

> >

> </gads?

t=ms&k=Astrological+chart&w1=Vedic+astrology&w

>

2=Jyotish&w3=Vedic&w4=Astrological+chart&c=4&s=69&.sig=MOZSSgBqBt5gcY

YsjHrS_

> A>

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > --------------------------------

-------

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > * Visit your group "

>

> > <>" on the web.

>

> >

>

> > *

>

> >

>

> >

> <?

subject=Un>

>

> >

>

> > * Terms

of

>

> > Service <>.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > --------------------------------

-------

>

> >

>

> >

------

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.10.12/75 - Release Date:

8/17/2005

>

> >

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Links

>

>

>

> /

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Pradeep,

 

I did not quite understand your question. By yugma, do you mean Gemini or

even sign?

 

If you meant Gemini, the first hora of Virgo maps to Gemini. Virgo is not an

odd sign.

 

If you meant even signs, the first hora of Aries, Virgo and Sagittarius map

to even signs.

 

Parivritti also means exchange. I feel that the cyclic method (I think it is

named as Parivritti Dwaya in Jagannatha Hora software) is used for a

different purpose.

 

Om Tat Sat,

 

Raman Suprajarama

 

 

 

 

[] On

Behalf Of vijayadas_pradeep

Sunday, August 21, 2005 5:37 PM

 

Cn and Le Riddle (Re: (Multiple replies) RE: New

method...)

 

Dear shri Raman

 

If i may intervene

 

Could you kindly confirm if first hora of an odd sign can be of yugma

nature.

Is this in conformity with the principle of Krura/Saumya and Sun/Moon

ruling the Horas.

 

Also Parivrithi and parivartan may be different.The second one is

exchange.

Also dwayam,trayam etc for Hora,Drekkana indicates repetition in the

cyclic order.

Have you tried Horas with ,the cyclic understanding.

 

Thanks

Pradeep

 

, "Raman Suprajarama" <cru115@n...>

wrote:

> Dear Sri Chandrashekar,

>

>

>

> "àyaejnm! - sUyRhaeraya< jataStejiSvníNÔSy haeraya< m&ÊSvÉava ÉviNt,

>

> prayojanam - süryahoräyäà jätästejasvinaçcandrasya horäyäà

mådusvabhävä

>

> bhavanti|"

>

>

>

> So at least as far as interpretation of Bhattopal goes this (Surya as

>

> first horesha and Chandra as second horesha for Vishama and reverse for

>

> Sama) has to do with the nature of Jataka.

>

>

>

> The commentary of Bhattotpala can be interpreted as "if a planet is

in the

> hora of Surya, the planet will be strong (tejashwini) and if it is

in the

> hora of Chandra, the planet will be mild (madhu)". Dr. Raman applied

this

> sentence in the area of remedial measures. If an evil planet is in

the Hora

> of Sun, the remedial measure prescribed should be very powerful to

ward off

> evil doshas and if it is in the Hora of Moon, the measures

prescribed can be

> less powerful.

>

>

>

> Govindhabhattatiri, while commenting on this sloka of Varahamihira

writes

> "Nishaaraashayo Nishaphaladhaah Dinaraashayo divaaphaladha iti"

>

>

>

> Actually

>

> if for Sama rasi 3rd house is considered as giving 2nd Hora, this would

>

> be even more logical count being reverse and Parakrama of a person has

>

> as much bearing on his wealth as his income.

>

>

>

> It all depends on how we interpret the word "parivruthhidwayam".

Parivruthi

> can mean exchange.

>

>

>

> Om Tat Sat,

>

>

>

> Raman Suprajarama

>

>

[] On

> Behalf Of Chandrashekhar

> Saturday, August 20, 2005 1:03 AM

>

> Re: Re: Cn and Le Riddle (Re: (Multiple

replies) RE:

> New method...)

>

>

>

> Dear Narasimha,

>

> I accept that Varahamihira said that the opinion about Rasi lord being

>

> lord of the first Hora and Lord of the 11th the 2nd Hora is of other

>

> Acharyas. The fact of the shloka preceding it is as you say about first

>

> Hora being of Sun and second of Moon.

>

>

>

> Having said that, may I point out that Bhattotpal in his commentary

says

>

> about the reason of allotting First Hora to Sun and second to Moon as:

>

> "àyaejnm! - sUyRhaeraya< jataStejiSvníNÔSy haeraya< m&ÊSvÉava ÉviNt,

>

> prayojanam - süryahoräyäà jätästejasvinaçcandrasya horäyäà

mådusvabhävä

>

> bhavanti|"

>

>

>

> So at least as far as interpretation of Bhattopal goes this (Surya as

>

> first horesha and Chandra as second horesha for Vishama and reverse for

>

> Sama) has to do with the nature of Jataka.

>

>

>

> Now if we relate this to what Parashara has said:

>

> tT]eÇ< tSy oeqSy razeyaeR ySy nayk>,

>

> tatkñetraà tasya kheöasya räçeryo yasya näyakaù|

>

> sUyeRNÖaeivR;me razaE sme tiÖprItkm!.5.

>

> süryendvorviñame räçau same tadviparétakam||5||

>

> iptríNÔhaereza deva> sUyRSy kIitRta>,

>

> pitaraçcandrahoreçä deväù süryasya kértitäù|

>

> razerÏ¡ ÉveÏaera taítuiv¡zit> Sm&ta>.

>

> räçerarddhaà bhaveddhorä täçcaturviàçatiù småtäù||

>

> me;aid tasa< haera[a< pirv&iÄÖy< Évet!.6.

>

> meñädi täsäà horäëäà parivåttidvayaà bhavet||6||

>

>

>

> Here contrary to what is interpreted it appears, at least to me with my

>

> limited knowledge, what is being said is that Surya's devata (first

>

> hora in Vishama rasi and second Hora of Sama rasi) is Deva and that of

>

> Chandra (first Hora of Sama rasi and second Hora of Vishama Rasi) the

>

> Devata is Pitara and he is talking about Parivritti dvaya Hora clearly

>

> and not as Horas being lorded over by Sun and Moon for Vishama rasi and

>

> the other way round for Sama rasi. So there appears to be much

confusion

>

> about what Parashara has said. Many astrologers appear to project as if

>

> Parashara has said first Hora in Vishama rasi belonging to rasi of Sun

>

> and second to the Moon means they fall in Leo and Cancer rasis. The

>

> above shloka of BPHS, does not seem to suggest that. Rather it is said

>

> by Varahamihira in his Brihajjatakam. But even here Bhattotpala

>

> commentary gives a new direction to that and appears to be more logical.

>

>

>

> Again my point is that since Parashara says one should look at wealth

>

> from Hora chart and 11th house Lord being Labhesha giving one of the

two

>

> Horas of a rasi, depending on whether the Rasi is Sama or Vishama

>

> appears to be more in line with areas of influence of Bhavas. Actually

>

> if for Sama rasi 3rd house is considered as giving 2nd Hora, this would

>

> be even more logical count being reverse and Parakrama of a person has

>

> as much bearing on his wealth as his income.

>

>

>

> Of course what I have said may appear to be not in line with what is

>

> believed to be said by Parashara to those more learned than me.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Chandrashekhar.

>

>

>

> Narasimha P.V.R. Rao wrote:

>

>

>

> > Dear Chandrashekhar ji,

>

> >

>

> > > Would you care to explain the source for mapping them to Surya or

>

> > > Chandra and then on to day or night rasis, which I presume is being

>

> > > discussed. Or are you talking about some different shloka?

>

> >

>

> > There is a verse in Brihajjatakam just before the verse you quoted,

>

> > which defines the first/second horas in odd signs as Sun's and Moon's

>

> > horas and reverse in even signs. Parasara also defined the same

way in

>

> > BPHS.

>

> >

>

> > In fact, it is not clear that the view in the verse you quoted below

>

> > is Varahamihira's. He defined the Sun/Moon based hora as if it was

his

>

> > own view and mentioned this 1st lord/11th lord based method as if it

>

> > was the view of "some others". That is how Sri B. Suryanarain Rao

>

> > (Raman Suprajarama's grandfather's grandfather) interpreted in his

>

> > translation of Brihajjatakam. He felt that the definition based on

>

> > Sun's and Moon's horas was Varahamihira's view and the other 1st/11th

>

> > method was that of others. Moreover, Sri Rao felt based on his

>

> > experience that Varahamihira was more correct.

>

> >

>

> > At SJC, we use Kashinatha Hora, which builds on the concept of

>

> > Sun's/Moon's horas and uses day signs and night signs.

>

> >

>

> > Raman Suprajarama's innovation is to mix this approach with the

>

> > 1st/11th method. His hora is identical to SJC's Kashinatha Hora if

all

>

> > planets are in the first 15 deg of signs. In the second halves, he

>

> > takes the 11th. His idea is that what seem like two different methods

>

> > mentioned by Varahamihira are actually one single method and

>

> > Varahamihira encrypted it. It is plausible. At the same time, it is

>

> > debatable.

>

> >

>

> > May Jupiter's light shine on us,

>

> > Narasimha

>

> > -------------------------------

>

> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

>

> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

>

> > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

>

> > -------------------------------

>

> >

>

> > > Dear Raman, Narasimha,

>

> > >

>

> > > If I remember right Raman had referred to Varahamihira's

Brihajjatakam

>

> > > as a source or inspiration for the Hora chart he proposed. If I am

>

> > > right, Varahamihira says:

>

> > >

>

> > > keicÄu haera< àwma< ÉpSy vaÁDiNt laÉaixpteiÖRtIyam!,

>

> > >

>

> > > kecittu horäà prathamäà bhapasya väïchanti läbhädhipaterdvitéyäm|

>

> > >

>

> > > Ôe:ka[s<}amip v[RyiNt SvÖadzEkadzraizpanam!.12.

>

> > >

>

> > > dreñkäëasaïjïämapi varëayanti svadvädaçaikädaçaräçipänäm||12||

>

> > >

>

> > > Here no reference to first Hora of Sun or Moon is mentioned, if my

>

> > > understanding is correct, he talks about first Hora being of the

>

> > Lord of

>

> > > the rasi and second of the 11th lord. Or rather Varahamihira

says that

>

> > > some Acharyas hold that opinion.

>

> > >

>

> > > Then there is a reference in a Vriddha Karika that:

>

> > >

>

> > > razerx¡ ÉveÏaera ta> ctuiv¡zit> Sm&ta>,

>

> > >

>

> > > räçerardhaà bhaveddhorä täù caturviàçatiù småtäù|

>

> > >

>

> > > me;aid tasa< haera[a< pirv&iÄÖy< Évet!.

>

> > >

>

> > > meñädi täsäà horäëäà parivåttidvayaà bhavet||

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> > > This means that first Hora is of Mesha in Mesha rasi second Hora of

>

> > > Mesha rasi is Vrishabha and so on twice round the rasi chakra.

In both

>

> > > cases, the talk is about Rasi Hora and not about Surya or

Chandra Hora.

>

> > > Therefore the reference to day or night rasi representing Surya or

>

> > > Chandra is something that I am not able to follow.

>

> > >

>

> > > Would you care to explain the source for mapping them to Surya or

>

> > > Chandra and then on to day or night rasis, which I presume is being

>

> > > discussed. Or are you talking about some different shloka?

>

> > > Regards,

>

> > > Chandrashekhar.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Vedic astrology

>

> >

>

</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic+astrology&w1=Vedic+astrology&w2=J

>

yotish&w3=Vedic&w4=Astrological+chart&c=4&s=69&.sig=-GBj8BOzVbQ8GK9t0LYOxw>

 

>

> > Jyotish

>

> >

>

</gads?t=ms&k=Jyotish&w1=Vedic+astrology&w2=Jyotish&w

> 3=Vedic&w4=Astrological+chart&c=4&s=69&.sig=1Oqz8QaIYh3il4-yFlCbRQ>

>

> > Vedic

>

> >

>

</gads?t=ms&k=Vedic&w1=Vedic+astrology&w2=Jyotish&w3=

> Vedic&w4=Astrological+chart&c=4&s=69&.sig=xM6K96f1bttsnwk2GGVngw>

>

> >

>

> > Astrological chart

>

> >

>

</gads?t=ms&k=Astrological+chart&w1=Vedic+astrology&w

>

2=Jyotish&w3=Vedic&w4=Astrological+chart&c=4&s=69&.sig=MOZSSgBqBt5gcYYsjHrS_

> A>

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> >

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> >

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> >

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> >

------

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > * Visit your group "

>

> > <>" on the web.

>

> >

>

> > *

>

> >

>

> >

> <?subject=Un>

>

> >

>

> > * Terms of

>

> > Service <>.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

------

>

> >

>

>

>------

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.10.12/75 - Release Date:

8/17/2005

>

> >

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> >

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Links

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