Guest guest Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Dear shri Utpal i have already agreed in the past about my awareness regarding Bhava usage by shri Raoji and Dr.Raman.i have also mentioned about other scholars prior to them, not using bhavas.Neither has parashara nor has Kalayan Varma.Giving due respect to all the said ancestors, why should i blindly go for one group.As proof is there for non usage from tradition,i can very well use my discretion,and look into the shlokas again,than blindly accepting.i do not have any bias towards a particular scholar.If i have a preference for some principles ,then it is due to my preception of merit after trying to understand the basics from my limitations. Thanks Pradeep vedic astrology, Utpal Pathak <vedic_pathak> wrote: > All Shri Narsimhaji, Vijaydas > > Namaste! > > I am interfering in the discussions only for once to convey some 'facts' which may not be in your knowledge. > > To Vijaydas :- your opinion is that It is impossible for you to consider Houses & Aspects in Varga Charts and you can not research on the very basis which seems to be illogical to you and some other scholars have expressed concerns on that in Past. you also say that it is a first level or Raw attempt which can easily mean that the usage of concept has just now started and needs to be tested further for its worth. > > Shri Narsimha has said that The concept has been used by many astrologer & that too for generations. > > from the few months of interactions, i have developed an idea that you prefer Shri K.N.Raoji's methods much more than others. (this is my opinion and if it is not proper then i take back my words & aplologise for that). > > I wish to quote here that I have eveidence that Shri K.N.Rao uses Varga charts, it's bhavas & aspects as well. it is well known that Dr. Raman & Shri Rao both used Navamansha charts, it's Houses & Aspects. > > I 'll just provide one Article written by him. it was published in one hindi monthly jyotish magazine of Sept 2000. > > In This article , while discussing, Saptamsha Chart (D7), He analyses Thus : > "LET US NOW SEE THE SAPTAMSHA CHART OF THE NATIVE. IN D7, 5TH HOUSE HAS EXALTED MARS WITH SATURN & MOON AND IT IS ASPECTED BY GURU & SHUKRA FROM 11TH HOUSE" > > The above para in itself is sufficient evidence, besides there are many. I his own magazine, the articles are published by his research team, which freely discusses House & Aspeects in Varga charts. > > Hence it is clear that revereed all noted, famous & not so famous luminaries of Vedic Jyotisha such as Shri Suryanarayan Rao, Dr Raman, Shri K.N.Rao, Shri Chalapati Rao,Shri Sanjay Rath and many more supports VARGA CHARTS & HOUSES/ASPECTS concepts. > > The fact that SJC also has a long tradition which is traced to the time of Chaitnya Mahaprabhu. Dr Raman must have got the concept from his grandfather first, KN Rao's Mother also must have used the concept. so it proves that it is idea which has been tested for generations and hence automatically proves it's worth. > > Regarding Classics references, i would like to assume that all the work of Parashara, Kalyan varma, and other sages works may not be available to us in it Full & Purest from. hence there is always scope for research and that is why BVB, SJC & other individual scholars indulge in to periodic researches. best example is KP Astrology. > > that is why i admire Narsimha Rao for his s/w, where in he has given opprtuntity for reasearch in Ayanamsha, Dasha Years, etc... every individual can have their own set of data and can use it. > > In my opinon, Vedic Jyotisha is such a vast & democratic field that it has a space for everybody.this a unique feature which is not available in other subjects/Sciences. if one feel that some concept doesn't work from him even it is stated by none other than sages, he is perfectly free to ignore it in his/her own analysis. > I think that any astrologer who does prediction in considerable quantity, and gets the quality of accuracy about 65% more is a very good astrologer no matter what method he is using. > > I am sorry if my message was out of tune w.r.t your ongoing discussions. > > astu, > > Astrologically yours, > > Utpal Pathak > > vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > Dear Narasimha ji > > Though we consider works from other sages,as far as i know,Parashara > muni and his works are accepeted by majority as a standard guideline. > Then i have already mentioned that scholars prior to the ones you have > said,did not use houses in navamsha though they used navamsha. > For example if lagna lord has a navamsha of 9th lord,then they > referred to it as bhagya navamsha. > Also we need not not assume that only the well known and the ones who > have got their works pulished as having tradition and knowledge. > There were many who did not use houses as it is not possile.Thus i did > not make any blunt view and there is no need for you to get frustrated. > > Regarding your shloka w.r to Raja yoga- Late Shri Santhanam had > already expressed his concern. > He said he cannot imagine aspects in vargas,and is a first step > towards my point.Late Shri Subbu Rao also had expressed concerns over > using bhavas. > Also the shloka, as you had explained in the past, is - the same > planet ''joining'' or aspecting shadvargas of Lagna(i think it is not > divisional ''charts''). > Thus i will say ,for example if shukra is the planet ,then shukra has > to aspect or be placed in the six vargas of Lagna. > Thus if shukra is aspecting or placed in the kshethra of lagna > ((aspects(graha) emanate by longitudinal degress according to > parashara)) and is occupying the other 5 vargas ,then there is no > ambiguity. > We derive navamsha from position in rashi chakra,but while analysis we > want to take them to a different plane!!!! > > Aspects on navamsha of lagna - is to see the root sign containing > lagna navamsha and seeing the aspects there. > Aspects on Karakamsha lagna too is similar.Thus 12th from karakamsha > has to be seen from rashi chakra for the same reason. > Rule for aspects given by sage is clear and can happen only in rashi > chakra. > In vargas we are arranging the signs and they are not as in real > order.Planets position in the heaven cannot be changed. > When we see navamsha we are again looking at the same position,but > from a closer angle.It is not difficult to understand this. > > If you have not understood my concerns written in the past,i have no > more knowledge to convey. > > Respect > Pradeep > > > > vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" > <pvr@c...> wrote: > > Namaste Pradeep, > > > > > > How can finding houses in navamsa be called "raw > > > > or first level attempt" and "trial" after so many decades (if not > > > > centuries) of that practice by learned Jyotishis such as Dr Raman? > > > > > > Raw need not be the first attempt,but can be an initial or elementary > > > understanding.Some one might have made similar attempts in the past. > > > Others might be following such or making fresh attempts.Thus we have > > > to first verify, the validity of such attempts,when not sanctioned by > > > authorities. > > > > Who is the "authority" here? You??????? > > > > As far as higher authorities such as Parasara are concerned, they > did not *unambiguously* state either view point. One can read them and > draw conclusions either way based on one's inclination. (I'll write > more on this later in the mail.) > > > > As far as modern authorities are concerned, Dr Raman, Sri KN Rao, Pt > Sanjay Rath all used houses in navamsa. > > > > Many generations of excellent Jyotishis used houses in navamsa. My > father, his grandfather, Dr Raman, his grandfather, my guru Pt Sanjay > Rath and his grandfather all used houses in navamsa. In fact, > countless authors used houses in navamsa. > > > > Given that this view has been accepted by a lot of astrologers for a > long time, I fail to see who you are to come and label the use of > houses in navamsa as a "raw or first level attempt" and a "trial". It > is quite rash and arrogant to dismiss the works and efforts of so many > with such dismissive words. > > > > > I have raised numerous concerns in the past,all pointing towards > > > misfit/discrepencies between parasharas work as a whole and bhavas in > > > vargas. > > > As we do not find exclusive refrences,the only possibility available > > > for us is to try and fit our theory somewhere into parasharas works. > > > Neither it was possible for me nor got any response from others for > > > the concerns. > > > > I never understood your concerns. > > > > BTW, Parasara mentioned a special raja yoga in BPHS. He said that > THE SAME PLANET ASPECTING LAGNA in six divisional charts (of the > shadvarga) gives a raja yoga. > > > > If navamsa is not a "chakra" with houses etc as you say, what is the > purpose of seeing aspects on lagna in navamsa? > > > > Though Parasara did not explicitly mention houses in vargas, there > are statements such as this which indicate that navamsa is a chart > with houses etc. In fact, Parasara did explcitly talk about the 12th > house from atma karaka's navamsa. Though some people insist that the > sign must be transposed into the rasi chart, Parasara did not > explicitly say so. By the principle of simpler hypothesis, I conclude > that Parasara talked of the 12th house from AK in navamsa itself. > > > > Bottomline is that there are enough indications in BPHS about houses > in navamsa, but nothing "absolutely unambiguous" and concrete. > > > > Given that there is nothing concrete, we maintain a healthy respect > for your views. On the contrary, you are being rash and brash enough > to dismiss the works of many scholars as "raw and first level attempt" > and a "trial". > > > > BTW, I could not read the verses sent by Swee Chan. She must have > used some font that I don't have in my PC. In general, it will be nice > if people don't assume that everybody has the fonts they have and try > to translitarate things in the simple Roman script. > > > > > Assume navamsha is analysed similar to Rashi - ie first check tenth in > > > rashi then 10th in navamsha,first check 5th in rashi and then 5th in > > > navamsha - for the same individual as Dr.Raman has done.No disrespect > > > towards great shri Raman,whose book was the first one i had purchased > > > in astrology.I can express my concerns even if i am not anyone. > > > > Expressing concerns is one thing and rudely pronouncing something a > savant did as a "raw and first level attempt" and a "trial" is quite > another. > > > > > Now let us combine parasharas advise(nav amsha is for spouse) with > > > your advise(houses) and use my navamsha to see my spouse. > > > > > > Are not we seeing the same result for any pair of husband and wife. > > > > > > I am pretty sure that you have to agree with me regarding the > > > discrepancy here. > > > > First of all, do YOU see the same result for any pair of husband and > wife by using JUST the RASI chart? Taking the 7th house from lagna or > Moon or Venus (or whatever you do to see wife in rasi chart) in rasi > chart as lagna, can you find a match with the chart of the spouse? If > your approach is not any better, don't complain about my approach. > > > > Second of all, one's navamsa is not meant to be the rasi chart of > spouse (though there are often links). One's navamsa shows how one's > marriage will be, how one's relationship with spouse will be and how > the native and spouse follow dharma. > > > > Your so-called "discrepancy" stems from your mistaken idea of what > navamsa is supposed to be. > > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > > Narasimha > > ------------------------------- > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > ------------------------------- > > > > > respect > > > Pradeep > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" > > > <pvr@c...> wrote: > > > > Namaste Pradeep, > > > > > > > > You went on ad naseum without addressing my main point. > > > > > > > > You yourself acknowledged that Dr Raman used houses in navamsa. What > > > then makes you say that taking houses in navamsa is "raw or first > > > level attempt" and "trial"? If you call it "suspicious" or > > > "questionable", I can respect your view. But the words you used imply > > > that this is some kind of new practice, which it is not. > > > > > > > > I am not interested in an argument with you on the relative > > > importance of rasi and navamsa. That is a different argument. My point > > > now is very specific. How can finding houses in navamsa be called "raw > > > or first level attempt" and "trial" after so many decades (if not > > > centuries) of that practice by learned Jyotishis such as Dr Raman? > > > And, who are you make that judgment and use such strong words? > > > > > > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > Astrology chart Vedic astrology Dasa Astrology horoscope Astrology software > > > > > > Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web. > > > vedic astrology > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > Start your day with - make it your home page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 Dear Shri Vijaydas, >i have also mentioned about other >scholars prior to them, not using bhavas.Neither has parashara nor >has Kalayan Varma. I think, Shri Narsimha has provided the exact Shloka given by Parashara muni and he also have provided Translation by the great Santhanam. Moreover, i had given my opinion earlier that All the work of Sages and that too in it's original form may not be available with us. keeping this in mind there is always scope of Research and Shri Krishnamurthy's research is a best example of that. I also stated that in vedic jyotisha, every individual is free to make the judgement which suits him provided he gets considerable predictive success applying those beliefs. It clearly means that you are free to use varga's as only amsha's and not use it as a chart. nobody attacks you, it's your feeling which is not proper. there is no malice towards you or anybody. even once on the list you advised me that "There is no Shortcuts in Jyotisha & lot of Sadhana is required". I took your advise positively and never reacted to that. I didn't take those words as ATTACK on me. where as i need to tell you that, I fell in love (yes LOVE) with vedic jyotish shastra when i was 20 years old. now i am 33 years of age. all along i have seen scores of charts and predicted many things for the people in various problems & extreme distress without expecting any kind of favour. i have prayed for them. and for me it is also a sadhana which has given me considerable success in predictions. I am NO SCHOLAR or GURU & don't desire to be one and hence don't indulge much in to such conversatoion but work with a simple logic of applying various ideas to practical charts and form opinions for my self and request you to try that. sorry for some personal write-up. Thanks a lot & best regards, utpal pathak vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep > wrote: Dear shri Utpali have already agreed in the past about my awareness regarding Bhava usage by shri Raoji and Dr.Raman.i have also mentioned about other scholars prior to them, not using bhavas.Neither has parashara nor has Kalayan Varma.Giving due respect to all the said ancestors, why should i blindly go for one group.As proof is there for non usage from tradition,i can very well use my discretion,and look into the shlokas again,than blindly accepting.i do not have any bias towards a particular scholar.If i have a preference for some principles ,then it is due to my preception of merit after trying to understand the basics from my limitations.ThanksPradeepvedic astrology, Utpal Pathak <vedic_pathak> wrote:> All Shri Narsimhaji, Vijaydas> > Namaste!> > I am interfering in the discussions only for once to convey some 'facts' which may not be in your knowledge.> > To Vijaydas :- your opinion is that It is impossible for you to consider Houses & Aspects in Varga Charts and you can not research on the very basis which seems to be illogical to you and some other scholars have expressed concerns on that in Past. you also say that it is a first level or Raw attempt which can easily mean that the usage of concept has just now started and needs to be tested further for its worth.> > Shri Narsimha has said that The concept has been used by many astrologer & that too for generations.> > from the few months of interactions, i have developed an idea that you prefer Shri K.N.Raoji's methods much more than others. (this is my opinion and if it is not proper then i take back my words & aplologise for that).> > I wish to quote here that I have eveidence that Shri K.N.Rao uses Varga charts, it's bhavas & aspects as well. it is well known that Dr. Raman & Shri Rao both used Navamansha charts, it's Houses & Aspects.> > I 'll just provide one Article written by him. it was published in one hindi monthly jyotish magazine of Sept 2000.> > In This article , while discussing, Saptamsha Chart (D7), He analyses Thus :> "LET US NOW SEE THE SAPTAMSHA CHART OF THE NATIVE. IN D7, 5TH HOUSE HAS EXALTED MARS WITH SATURN & MOON AND IT IS ASPECTED BY GURU & SHUKRA FROM 11TH HOUSE" > > The above para in itself is sufficient evidence, besides there are many. I his own magazine, the articles are published by his research team, which freely discusses House & Aspeects in Varga charts.> > Hence it is clear that revereed all noted, famous & not so famous luminaries of Vedic Jyotisha such as Shri Suryanarayan Rao, Dr Raman, Shri K.N.Rao, Shri Chalapati Rao,Shri Sanjay Rath and many more supports VARGA CHARTS & HOUSES/ASPECTS concepts.> > The fact that SJC also has a long tradition which is traced to the time of Chaitnya Mahaprabhu. Dr Raman must have got the concept from his grandfather first, KN Rao's Mother also must have used the concept. so it proves that it is idea which has been tested for generations and hence automatically proves it's worth.> > Regarding Classics references, i would like to assume that all the work of Parashara, Kalyan varma, and other sages works may not be available to us in it Full & Purest from. hence there is always scope for research and that is why BVB, SJC & other individual scholars indulge in to periodic researches. best example is KP Astrology.> > that is why i admire Narsimha Rao for his s/w, where in he has given opprtuntity for reasearch in Ayanamsha, Dasha Years, etc... every individual can have their own set of data and can use it.> > In my opinon, Vedic Jyotisha is such a vast & democratic field that it has a space for everybody.this a unique feature which is not available in other subjects/Sciences. if one feel that some concept doesn't work from him even it is stated by none other than sages, he is perfectly free to ignore it in his/her own analysis.> I think that any astrologer who does prediction in considerable quantity, and gets the quality of accuracy about 65% more is a very good astrologer no matter what method he is using.> > I am sorry if my message was out of tune w.r.t your ongoing discussions.> > astu,> > Astrologically yours,> > Utpal Pathak> > vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:> Dear Narasimha ji> > Though we consider works from other sages,as far as i know,Parashara> muni and his works are accepeted by majority as a standard guideline.> Then i have already mentioned that scholars prior to the ones you have> said,did not use houses in navamsha though they used navamsha.> For example if lagna lord has a navamsha of 9th lord,then they> referred to it as bhagya navamsha.> Also we need not not assume that only the well known and the ones who> have got their works pulished as having tradition and knowledge.> There were many who did not use houses as it is not possile.Thus i did> not make any blunt view and there is no need for you to get frustrated.> > Regarding your shloka w.r to Raja yoga- Late Shri Santhanam had> already expressed his concern.> He said he cannot imagine aspects in vargas,and is a first step> towards my point.Late Shri Subbu Rao also had expressed concerns over> using bhavas.> Also the shloka, as you had explained in the past, is - the same> planet ''joining'' or aspecting shadvargas of Lagna(i think it is not> divisional ''charts'').> Thus i will say ,for example if shukra is the planet ,then shukra has> to aspect or be placed in the six vargas of Lagna. > Thus if shukra is aspecting or placed in the kshethra of lagna> ((aspects(graha) emanate by longitudinal degress according to> parashara)) and is occupying the other 5 vargas ,then there is no> ambiguity.> We derive navamsha from position in rashi chakra,but while analysis we> want to take them to a different plane!!!!> > Aspects on navamsha of lagna - is to see the root sign containing> lagna navamsha and seeing the aspects there.> Aspects on Karakamsha lagna too is similar.Thus 12th from karakamsha> has to be seen from rashi chakra for the same reason.> Rule for aspects given by sage is clear and can happen only in rashi> chakra.> In vargas we are arranging the signs and they are not as in real> order.Planets position in the heaven cannot be changed.> When we see navamsha we are again looking at the same position,but> from a closer angle.It is not difficult to understand this.> > If you have not understood my concerns written in the past,i have no> more knowledge to convey.> > Respect> Pradeep> > > > vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"> <pvr@c...> wrote:> > Namaste Pradeep,> > > > > > How can finding houses in navamsa be called "raw> > > > or first level attempt" and "trial" after so many decades (if not> > > > centuries) of that practice by learned Jyotishis such as Dr Raman?> > > > > > Raw need not be the first attempt,but can be an initial or elementary> > > understanding.Some one might have made similar attempts in the past.> > > Others might be following such or making fresh attempts.Thus we have> > > to first verify, the validity of such attempts,when not sanctioned by> > > authorities.> > > > Who is the "authority" here? You???????> > > > As far as higher authorities such as Parasara are concerned, they> did not *unambiguously* state either view point. One can read them and> draw conclusions either way based on one's inclination. (I'll write> more on this later in the mail.)> > > > As far as modern authorities are concerned, Dr Raman, Sri KN Rao, Pt> Sanjay Rath all used houses in navamsa.> > > > Many generations of excellent Jyotishis used houses in navamsa. My> father, his grandfather, Dr Raman, his grandfather, my guru Pt Sanjay> Rath and his grandfather all used houses in navamsa. In fact,> countless authors used houses in navamsa.> > > > Given that this view has been accepted by a lot of astrologers for a> long time, I fail to see who you are to come and label the use of> houses in navamsa as a "raw or first level attempt" and a "trial". It> is quite rash and arrogant to dismiss the works and efforts of so many> with such dismissive words.> > > > > I have raised numerous concerns in the past,all pointing towards> > > misfit/discrepencies between parasharas work as a whole and bhavas in> > > vargas.> > > As we do not find exclusive refrences,the only possibility available> > > for us is to try and fit our theory somewhere into parasharas works.> > > Neither it was possible for me nor got any response from others for> > > the concerns.> > > > I never understood your concerns.> > > > BTW, Parasara mentioned a special raja yoga in BPHS. He said that> THE SAME PLANET ASPECTING LAGNA in six divisional charts (of the> shadvarga) gives a raja yoga.> > > > If navamsa is not a "chakra" with houses etc as you say, what is the> purpose of seeing aspects on lagna in navamsa?> > > > Though Parasara did not explicitly mention houses in vargas, there> are statements such as this which indicate that navamsa is a chart> with houses etc. In fact, Parasara did explcitly talk about the 12th> house from atma karaka's navamsa. Though some people insist that the> sign must be transposed into the rasi chart, Parasara did not> explicitly say so. By the principle of simpler hypothesis, I conclude> that Parasara talked of the 12th house from AK in navamsa itself.> > > > Bottomline is that there are enough indications in BPHS about houses> in navamsa, but nothing "absolutely unambiguous" and concrete.> > > > Given that there is nothing concrete, we maintain a healthy respect> for your views. On the contrary, you are being rash and brash enough> to dismiss the works of many scholars as "raw and first level attempt"> and a "trial".> > > > BTW, I could not read the verses sent by Swee Chan. She must have> used some font that I don't have in my PC. In general, it will be nice> if people don't assume that everybody has the fonts they have and try> to translitarate things in the simple Roman script.> > > > > Assume navamsha is analysed similar to Rashi - ie first check tenth in> > > rashi then 10th in navamsha,first check 5th in rashi and then 5th in> > > navamsha - for the same individual as Dr.Raman has done.No disrespect> > > towards great shri Raman,whose book was the first one i had purchased> > > in astrology.I can express my concerns even if i am not anyone. > > > > Expressing concerns is one thing and rudely pronouncing something a> savant did as a "raw and first level attempt" and a "trial" is quite> another.> > > > > Now let us combine parasharas advise(nav amsha is for spouse) with> > > your advise(houses) and use my navamsha to see my spouse.> > > > > > Are not we seeing the same result for any pair of husband and wife.> > > > > > I am pretty sure that you have to agree with me regarding the> > > discrepancy here.> > > > First of all, do YOU see the same result for any pair of husband and> wife by using JUST the RASI chart? Taking the 7th house from lagna or> Moon or Venus (or whatever you do to see wife in rasi chart) in rasi> chart as lagna, can you find a match with the chart of the spouse? If> your approach is not any better, don't complain about my approach.> > > > Second of all, one's navamsa is not meant to be the rasi chart of> spouse (though there are often links). One's navamsa shows how one's> marriage will be, how one's relationship with spouse will be and how> the native and spouse follow dharma.> > > > Your so-called "discrepancy" stems from your mistaken idea of what> navamsa is supposed to be.> > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,> > Narasimha> > -------------------------------> > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > -------------------------------> > > > > respect> > > Pradeep> > > > > > vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"> > > <pvr@c...> wrote:> > > > Namaste Pradeep,> > > > > > > > You went on ad naseum without addressing my main point.> > > > > > > > You yourself acknowledged that Dr Raman used houses in navamsa. What> > > then makes you say that taking houses in navamsa is "raw or first> > > level attempt" and "trial"? If you call it "suspicious" or> > > "questionable", I can respect your view. But the words you used imply> > > that this is some kind of new practice, which it is not.> > > > > > > > I am not interested in an argument with you on the relative> > > importance of rasi and navamsa. That is a different argument. My point> > > now is very specific. How can finding houses in navamsa be called "raw> > > or first level attempt" and "trial" after so many decades (if not> > > centuries) of that practice by learned Jyotishis such as Dr Raman?> > > And, who are you make that judgment and use such strong words?> > > > > > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,> > > > Narasimha> > > > > Archives: vedic astrology> > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > > Astrology chart Vedic astrology Dasa Astrology horoscope Astrology software > > > > > > Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web.> > > vedic astrology> > Your use of is subject to the > > > > > > > > > Start your day with - make it your home pageArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ........ Tired of spam? 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Guest guest Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 Dear Shri Utpal It is nice to note your vast experiments and experience with astrology.If my words had created any discomofort pls ignore.Thanks for the mail and suggestions. Regds Pradeep vedic astrology, Utpal Pathak <vedic_pathak> wrote: > Dear Shri Vijaydas, > > >i have also mentioned about other > >scholars prior to them, not using bhavas.Neither has parashara nor > >has Kalayan Varma. > > I think, Shri Narsimha has provided the exact Shloka given by Parashara muni and he also have provided Translation by the great Santhanam. > > Moreover, i had given my opinion earlier that All the work of Sages and that too in it's original form may not be available with us. keeping this in mind there is always scope of Research and Shri Krishnamurthy's research is a best example of that. > > I also stated that in vedic jyotisha, every individual is free to make the judgement which suits him provided he gets considerable predictive success applying those beliefs. > > It clearly means that you are free to use varga's as only amsha's and not use it as a chart. > > nobody attacks you, it's your feeling which is not proper. there is no malice towards you or anybody. even once on the list you advised me that "There is no Shortcuts in Jyotisha & lot of Sadhana is required". I took your advise positively and never reacted to that. I didn't take those words as ATTACK on me. where as i need to tell you that, I fell in love (yes LOVE) with vedic jyotish shastra when i was 20 years old. now i am 33 years of age. all along i have seen scores of charts and predicted many things for the people in various problems & extreme distress without expecting any kind of favour. i have prayed for them. and for me it is also a sadhana which has given me considerable success in predictions. I am NO SCHOLAR or GURU & don't desire to be one and hence don't indulge much in to such conversatoion but work with a simple logic of applying various ideas to practical charts and form opinions for my self and request you to try that. > sorry for some personal write-up. > > Thanks a lot & best regards, > > utpal pathak > > vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > Dear shri Utpal > > i have already agreed in the past about my awareness regarding Bhava > usage by shri Raoji and Dr.Raman.i have also mentioned about other > scholars prior to them, not using bhavas.Neither has parashara nor > has Kalayan Varma.Giving due respect to all the said ancestors, why > should i blindly go for one group.As proof is there for non usage > from tradition,i can very well use my discretion,and look into the > shlokas again,than blindly accepting.i do not have any bias towards > a particular scholar.If i have a preference for some > principles ,then it is due to my preception of merit after trying to > understand the basics from my limitations. > > Thanks > Pradeep > > vedic astrology, Utpal Pathak > <vedic_pathak> wrote: > > All Shri Narsimhaji, Vijaydas > > > > Namaste! > > > > I am interfering in the discussions only for once to convey > some 'facts' which may not be in your knowledge. > > > > To Vijaydas :- your opinion is that It is impossible for you to > consider Houses & Aspects in Varga Charts and you can not research > on the very basis which seems to be illogical to you and some other > scholars have expressed concerns on that in Past. you also say that > it is a first level or Raw attempt which can easily mean that the > usage of concept has just now started and needs to be tested further > for its worth. > > > > Shri Narsimha has said that The concept has been used by many > astrologer & that too for generations. > > > > from the few months of interactions, i have developed an idea that > you prefer Shri K.N.Raoji's methods much more than others. (this is > my opinion and if it is not proper then i take back my words & > aplologise for that). > > > > I wish to quote here that I have eveidence that Shri K.N.Rao uses > Varga charts, it's bhavas & aspects as well. it is well known that > Dr. Raman & Shri Rao both used Navamansha charts, it's Houses & > Aspects. > > > > I 'll just provide one Article written by him. it was published in > one hindi monthly jyotish magazine of Sept 2000. > > > > In This article , while discussing, Saptamsha Chart (D7), He > analyses Thus : > > "LET US NOW SEE THE SAPTAMSHA CHART OF THE NATIVE. IN D7, 5TH > HOUSE HAS EXALTED MARS WITH SATURN & MOON AND IT IS ASPECTED BY GURU > & SHUKRA FROM 11TH HOUSE" > > > > The above para in itself is sufficient evidence, besides there are > many. I his own magazine, the articles are published by his research > team, which freely discusses House & Aspeects in Varga charts. > > > > Hence it is clear that revereed all noted, famous & not so famous > luminaries of Vedic Jyotisha such as Shri Suryanarayan Rao, Dr > Raman, Shri K.N.Rao, Shri Chalapati Rao,Shri Sanjay Rath and many > more supports VARGA CHARTS & HOUSES/ASPECTS concepts. > > > > The fact that SJC also has a long tradition which is traced to the > time of Chaitnya Mahaprabhu. Dr Raman must have got the concept from > his grandfather first, KN Rao's Mother also must have used the > concept. so it proves that it is idea which has been tested for > generations and hence automatically proves it's worth. > > > > Regarding Classics references, i would like to assume that all the > work of Parashara, Kalyan varma, and other sages works may not be > available to us in it Full & Purest from. hence there is always > scope for research and that is why BVB, SJC & other individual > scholars indulge in to periodic researches. best example is KP > Astrology. > > > > that is why i admire Narsimha Rao for his s/w, where in he has > given opprtuntity for reasearch in Ayanamsha, Dasha Years, etc... > every individual can have their own set of data and can use it. > > > > In my opinon, Vedic Jyotisha is such a vast & democratic field > that it has a space for everybody.this a unique feature which is not > available in other subjects/Sciences. if one feel that some concept > doesn't work from him even it is stated by none other than sages, he > is perfectly free to ignore it in his/her own analysis. > > I think that any astrologer who does prediction in considerable > quantity, and gets the quality of accuracy about 65% more is a very > good astrologer no matter what method he is using. > > > > I am sorry if my message was out of tune w.r.t your ongoing > discussions. > > > > astu, > > > > Astrologically yours, > > > > Utpal Pathak > > > > vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > > Dear Narasimha ji > > > > Though we consider works from other sages,as far as i > know,Parashara > > muni and his works are accepeted by majority as a standard > guideline. > > Then i have already mentioned that scholars prior to the ones you > have > > said,did not use houses in navamsha though they used navamsha. > > For example if lagna lord has a navamsha of 9th lord,then they > > referred to it as bhagya navamsha. > > Also we need not not assume that only the well known and the ones > who > > have got their works pulished as having tradition and knowledge. > > There were many who did not use houses as it is not possile.Thus i > did > > not make any blunt view and there is no need for you to get > frustrated. > > > > Regarding your shloka w.r to Raja yoga- Late Shri Santhanam had > > already expressed his concern. > > He said he cannot imagine aspects in vargas,and is a first step > > towards my point.Late Shri Subbu Rao also had expressed concerns > over > > using bhavas. > > Also the shloka, as you had explained in the past, is - the same > > planet ''joining'' or aspecting shadvargas of Lagna(i think it is > not > > divisional ''charts''). > > Thus i will say ,for example if shukra is the planet ,then shukra > has > > to aspect or be placed in the six vargas of Lagna. > > Thus if shukra is aspecting or placed in the kshethra of lagna > > ((aspects(graha) emanate by longitudinal degress according to > > parashara)) and is occupying the other 5 vargas ,then there is no > > ambiguity. > > We derive navamsha from position in rashi chakra,but while > analysis we > > want to take them to a different plane!!!! > > > > Aspects on navamsha of lagna - is to see the root sign containing > > lagna navamsha and seeing the aspects there. > > Aspects on Karakamsha lagna too is similar.Thus 12th from > karakamsha > > has to be seen from rashi chakra for the same reason. > > Rule for aspects given by sage is clear and can happen only in > rashi > > chakra. > > In vargas we are arranging the signs and they are not as in real > > order.Planets position in the heaven cannot be changed. > > When we see navamsha we are again looking at the same position,but > > from a closer angle.It is not difficult to understand this. > > > > If you have not understood my concerns written in the past,i have > no > > more knowledge to convey. > > > > Respect > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" > > <pvr@c...> wrote: > > > Namaste Pradeep, > > > > > > > > How can finding houses in navamsa be called "raw > > > > > or first level attempt" and "trial" after so many decades > (if not > > > > > centuries) of that practice by learned Jyotishis such as Dr > Raman? > > > > > > > > Raw need not be the first attempt,but can be an initial or > elementary > > > > understanding.Some one might have made similar attempts in the > past. > > > > Others might be following such or making fresh attempts.Thus > we have > > > > to first verify, the validity of such attempts,when not > sanctioned by > > > > authorities. > > > > > > Who is the "authority" here? You??????? > > > > > > As far as higher authorities such as Parasara are concerned, they > > did not *unambiguously* state either view point. One can read them > and > > draw conclusions either way based on one's inclination. (I'll write > > more on this later in the mail.) > > > > > > As far as modern authorities are concerned, Dr Raman, Sri KN > Rao, Pt > > Sanjay Rath all used houses in navamsa. > > > > > > Many generations of excellent Jyotishis used houses in navamsa. > My > > father, his grandfather, Dr Raman, his grandfather, my guru Pt > Sanjay > > Rath and his grandfather all used houses in navamsa. In fact, > > countless authors used houses in navamsa. > > > > > > Given that this view has been accepted by a lot of astrologers > for a > > long time, I fail to see who you are to come and label the use of > > houses in navamsa as a "raw or first level attempt" and a "trial". > It > > is quite rash and arrogant to dismiss the works and efforts of so > many > > with such dismissive words. > > > > > > > I have raised numerous concerns in the past,all pointing > towards > > > > misfit/discrepencies between parasharas work as a whole and > bhavas in > > > > vargas. > > > > As we do not find exclusive refrences,the only possibility > available > > > > for us is to try and fit our theory somewhere into parasharas > works. > > > > Neither it was possible for me nor got any response from > others for > > > > the concerns. > > > > > > I never understood your concerns. > > > > > > BTW, Parasara mentioned a special raja yoga in BPHS. He said that > > THE SAME PLANET ASPECTING LAGNA in six divisional charts (of the > > shadvarga) gives a raja yoga. > > > > > > If navamsa is not a "chakra" with houses etc as you say, what is > the > > purpose of seeing aspects on lagna in navamsa? > > > > > > Though Parasara did not explicitly mention houses in vargas, > there > > are statements such as this which indicate that navamsa is a chart > > with houses etc. In fact, Parasara did explcitly talk about the > 12th > > house from atma karaka's navamsa. Though some people insist that > the > > sign must be transposed into the rasi chart, Parasara did not > > explicitly say so. By the principle of simpler hypothesis, I > conclude > > that Parasara talked of the 12th house from AK in navamsa itself. > > > > > > Bottomline is that there are enough indications in BPHS about > houses > > in navamsa, but nothing "absolutely unambiguous" and concrete. > > > > > > Given that there is nothing concrete, we maintain a healthy > respect > > for your views. On the contrary, you are being rash and brash > enough > > to dismiss the works of many scholars as "raw and first level > attempt" > > and a "trial". > > > > > > BTW, I could not read the verses sent by Swee Chan. She must have > > used some font that I don't have in my PC. In general, it will be > nice > > if people don't assume that everybody has the fonts they have and > try > > to translitarate things in the simple Roman script. > > > > > > > Assume navamsha is analysed similar to Rashi - ie first check > tenth in > > > > rashi then 10th in navamsha,first check 5th in rashi and then > 5th in > > > > navamsha - for the same individual as Dr.Raman has done.No > disrespect > > > > towards great shri Raman,whose book was the first one i had > purchased > > > > in astrology.I can express my concerns even if i am not > anyone. > > > > > > Expressing concerns is one thing and rudely pronouncing > something a > > savant did as a "raw and first level attempt" and a "trial" is > quite > > another. > > > > > > > Now let us combine parasharas advise(nav amsha is for spouse) > with > > > > your advise(houses) and use my navamsha to see my spouse. > > > > > > > > Are not we seeing the same result for any pair of husband and > wife. > > > > > > > > I am pretty sure that you have to agree with me regarding the > > > > discrepancy here. > > > > > > First of all, do YOU see the same result for any pair of husband > and > > wife by using JUST the RASI chart? Taking the 7th house from lagna > or > > Moon or Venus (or whatever you do to see wife in rasi chart) in > rasi > > chart as lagna, can you find a match with the chart of the spouse? > If > > your approach is not any better, don't complain about my approach. > > > > > > Second of all, one's navamsa is not meant to be the rasi chart of > > spouse (though there are often links). One's navamsa shows how > one's > > marriage will be, how one's relationship with spouse will be and > how > > the native and spouse follow dharma. > > > > > > Your so-called "discrepancy" stems from your mistaken idea of > what > > navamsa is supposed to be. > > > > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > > > Narasimha > > > ------------------------------- > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > Sri Jagannath Centre (SJC) website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > > respect > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" > > > > <pvr@c...> wrote: > > > > > Namaste Pradeep, > > > > > > > > > > You went on ad naseum without addressing my main point. > > > > > > > > > > You yourself acknowledged that Dr Raman used houses in > navamsa. What > > > > then makes you say that taking houses in navamsa is "raw or > first > > > > level attempt" and "trial"? If you call it "suspicious" or > > > > "questionable", I can respect your view. But the words you > used imply > > > > that this is some kind of new practice, which it is not. > > > > > > > > > > I am not interested in an argument with you on the relative > > > > importance of rasi and navamsa. That is a different argument. > My point > > > > now is very specific. How can finding houses in navamsa be > called "raw > > > > or first level attempt" and "trial" after so many decades (if > not > > > > centuries) of that practice by learned Jyotishis such as Dr > Raman? > > > > And, who are you make that judgment and use such strong words? > > > > > > > > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > > > > > Narasimha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology chart Vedic astrology Dasa Astrology horoscope Astrology > software > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web. > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Start your day with - make it your home page > > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > Visit your group "vedic astrology" on the web. > > > vedic astrology > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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