2-Bhrateiya: re.....Jyotish & the power of growing enlightenment.....>> Mark Kincaid 7/3

[Guest guest]

Namaskaar Sri Mark and Sri Sabri

I am sorry for interrupting your dialogue. I couldn't help commenting

on what Mark has indicated:

> You have indicated;

> "In enlightenment, the deepest blocks to our infinite potential will

> be gone, but still, certain aspects of astrological personality and

> mental characteristics will still be there".

Dear Bhrateiya:

No problem. I think it's especially valuable contemplating these issues of

freedom and pre-conditionings, because for me, this helps me, fuel the desire

and strength to accomplish

enlightenment.

With the addition of the process of increasing stages of Enlightenment, to our

J¥otish, then, J¥otish can be more about increasing stages of Selfhood, and

Self Mastery, instead of just being fated.

Obviously, for many their charts and lives are very engulfed by the boundries of

thought forms and patterns and they don't experience 'much' freedom in life.

However, since our chart's are a reflection of our own karmic desires, then,

it's always still up to us, to change and grow, even in the confines of these

charts.

When you add the true transformative power of Vedic wisdom to a person's life,

then, the so-called normal, fatedness of our chart's begins to loosen.

I've known many, many people who've started this great path of enlightenment, in

this life, and I can see, just how much they've been able to loosen the shackles

of their malefics and deep pockets of stress and rigidity.

The stories and visions of the possibilities of the Vedic Seers, and enlightened

beings, however, inspire us to turn to the inner, for a resolution of our

problems and the growth of real power and wisdom in life.

There is ultimate, complete 'freedom', and Self-mastery in life, and that can be

seen, first in the life of the Universe itself; and then, in those great, Maha

souls who have enlightened their Selves.

You hear about this sometimes, in Vedic literature, the role and importance of self-effort.

At every stage we're meant to desire and will ourselves forward, and ultimately,

we'll arrive at a stage where our efforts and strivings will bring us to

fulfillment.

This, 'consciousness' aspect of Ved, and even Jyotish, is amazingly signifigant

because it represents the ultimate, 'remedial measure', and path of

self-mastery.

In previous articles I wrote about how one's chart changes depending upon the

specific states of Consciousness that one is in.

In 'ignorance' or waking state the degree of self-master¥ may be ver¥ limited.

However, even a few moments, enlivening the inner glory of the Self, will bring

to us, the Light of the Self, which has the potential to illuminate all things,

and especially purify and even dissolve 'ALL' the malefics in our charts!

Practical experience, however, shows that then, adding the study and unique

remedial measures of Jyotish to the life of a 'meditator', also will further

empower us along the path of our enlightenment or charts.

As the Self of the Universe, becomes more in light, and as we enliven that inner

power of the Self, then, life truely becomes an expression of increasing "all

possibilities".

The Self, itself, is often described as a field of all possibilities.

Experiencing 'it' is the first step, but there does come a time, when the

profundity and power of 'it', is never lost, throughout all the stages of the 3

main states of consciousness, Waking, Dreaming & Sleeping.

One will still be living a 'chart' but one inside, no longer so closely

identifies oneself, as the small limitations of that chart.

When life rises to Brahman, then, looking back at this body and this

individuality, one sees, that old self, but it becomes more like a little leaf

on a tree, in a small forest, in a small state, on a small continent, on a

small world, while you are 'THAT', but you are also the self, that stretches,

out from here,....to......... there.

Using Jyotish, now, to enable us to stop creating mistakes and stresses in our

lives, is a wonderful addition to the normal benefits of things like

meditating, alone.

Nice talking with you.

Sincerely,

Mark Kincaid

"bharateiya" <bharateiya (AT) (DOT) co.in>

vedic astrology

Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:29:29 -0000

vedic astrology

[vedic astrology] Re: 2-Sabir & all: re..... can one grow out of the

limitations of one's chart?

Namaskaar Sri Mark and Sri Sabri

I am sorry for interrupting your dialogue. I couldn't help commenting

on what Mark has indicated:

> You have indicated;

> "In enlightenment, the deepest blocks to our infinite potential will

> be gone, but still, certain aspects of astrological personality and

> mental characteristics will still be there".

This is the state of Jeevan Mukta. The residual instinctual desires

carry the body till it is also cast away. The issue of Ketu is

prominent there, as it is the one which is instinctual. Futher

desires, called as Prarabdha Karma Vasanas (desires emanating from the

reactions to Prarabdha) are not there as there is no identification

with the desire.

Ketu is the carrier of our actions by way of instincts. It is likely

that this carries the subtle body bundle by the way of instincts from

death to next life.

Other planets may play their role through Ketu in this case, but their

bindings are totally gone.

I am not being affirmative, but the above seems very logical to me.

Please do share your researches.

Thanks and Regards

Bharat

vedic astrology, "Sabri" <korua@e...> wrote:

> Dear Mark, Hi,

>

> Thanks so much for your beautiful reply and thoughts.

>

> Your unique approach to Jyotish has always been very valuable for me.

>

> In your post, you have raised a very curucial issue, about how

> spiritual methods change people, or, change some aspects and maybe

> do not affect other aspects as much.

>

> You have indicated;

> "In enlightenment, the deepest blocks to our infinite potential will

> be gone, but still, certain aspects of astrological personality and

> mental characteristics will still be there".

>

> On this I will have a question to think about in a few days

> (unfortunately don't have enough time right now).

>

> Many many thanks, very best wishes,

> Sabri.

>

> Jai Guru.

>

>

>

>

>

> vedic astrology, Mark Kincaid

> <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> > Dear Mark, Hi,

> >

> > Thanks for the comments, and reminding us of the importance and

> > practical validity of transits once again.

> >

> > Regarding your last point, about "consciousness" what do you think

> > about, or what is your experience re:, "the karmas indicated in the

> > birth chart, transforming through changes in consciousness (or

> > tapas/propitiation for that matter)", e.g. about the theory that

> one

> > grows out of ones chart, through spiritual evolution, karmas being

> > indicated softened so to say?

> >

> >

> > Dear Sabri:

> >

> > I think there is an element of Jyotish, especially Consciousness

> Jyotish,

> > wherever we begin,

> > we really can grow beyond the obvious limitations of our charts.

> >

> > I think for most people their chart's are more fatalistic if they

> never do

> > anything especially Vedic to change their stars.

> >

> > Maharishi's Guru, Swami Brahmananda Sarasati used to say, there

> were a

> > million kinds of births you could take before human births, and

> then after

> > that, without meditation, thousands of life-times. However, with

> > meditation, we can so magnificanently, expand ourselves, that we

> really can

> > grow beyond the obvious limitations of our charts.

> >

> > I know many 'meditators', who report much lessening of the obvious

> lessening

> > of the stresses, of their 'malefics' or charts, since meditating,

> and that's

> > been my experience as well.

> >

> > But, then, add on top of that, the growth and self-development of

> the study

> > of Jyotish, itself, and that, especially in conjunction with

> meditation, is

> > an amazing dual, Vedic remedy!

> >

> >

> > Now, I believe that the malefics in our charts represent, really

> the

> > stresses or blocks in our enlightenment.

> >

> > And, as we go to the transcendental realm, and or, even, learn how

> to get

> > more in-tune with those, so-called malefics, we can think in terms

> of

> > eliminating all stresses!, or malefics.

> >

> > In enlightenment, the deepest blocks to our infinite potential

> will be gone,

> > but still, certain aspects of astrological personality and mental

> > characteristics will still be there.

> >

> > But, from the inside, we'll feel no restriction or limitations.

> >

> > Nice talking with you.

> >

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> >

> > Mark Kincaid

> >

> >

> >

> > "Sabri" <korua@e...>

> > vedic astrology

> > Sun, 03 Jul 2005 21:57:48 -0000

> > vedic astrology

> > [vedic astrology] Re: 2-Sabir & all: re..... Who were

> > Maharishis?->>> Mark Kincaid 7/3

> >

> >

> > Dear Mark, Hi,

> >

> > Thanks for the comments, and reminding us of the importance and

> > practical validity of transits once again.

> >

> > Regarding your last point, about "consciousness" what do you think

> > about, or what is your experience re:, "the karmas indicated in the

> > birth chart, transforming through changes in consciousness (or

> > tapas/propitiation for that matter)", e.g. about the theory that

> one

> > grows out of ones chart, through spiritual evolution, karmas being

> > indicated softened so to say?

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> > Sabri.

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, Mark Kincaid

> > <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> > > Dear Sabir:

> > >

> > > I very much enjoyed your email re. the Maharishi-Seers!

> > >

> > > I'd like to add a few thoughts.

> > >

> > > Even if the Ved, and books like Maharishi Parashara's book on

> Hora

> > > Astrology, are cognitions,

> > > still,

> > >

> > > if their realities are eternal, and of the very laws of

> nature,...

> > >

> > > then, their truths, and significances, will be there for us, in

> > the present!

> > >

> > > In other words, if something is true, then it will show it's

> > validity, in

> > > the every day reality of people today, and tomorrow and the next!

> > >

> > > This has been my experience of Jyotish.

> > >

> > > All the principles and ideas that I have read about, ultimately I

> > found

> > > alive and functioning, real!

> > > so very real, in the live's of every one that I meet.

> > >

> > > That experience has convinced me of Jyotish's power and insight,

> > into

> > > life....

> > >

> > > Now, after doing literally thousands of charts, over these last

> 18

> > years, I

> > > can say, with amazing conviction, that the principles of Jyotish

> > work! I

> > > have not found one chart, in all these years, that hasn't

> > really, 'fit' the

> > > person, and been testaments of all the rules and principles of

> > Jyotish.

> > >

> > > Also, the transits, of every day, life, out there, in the World's

> > > environment, follows the laws and principles of Jyotish.

> > >

> > > Take the Moon & Saturn for example. Jyotish has these rules

> about

> > > conjunction and aspects.

> > > When you watch the Moon & Saturn collide, or aspect, which

> happens

> > every

> > > month, you can really, 'feel' that!

> > >

> > > Take the Moon/conjunct with Saturn. This month, take July 7 &

> > 8th, the Moon

> > > goes into Cancer,

> > > where SAturn is too. On those days you can 'feel' that definite

> > Saturn

> > > affect upon the Moon, or heart and mind.

> > >

> > > It's unmistakable. Then, over the next few days, the Moon

> slides

> > into Leo,

> > > where Saturn is supposed to 'not' influence the Moon so directly.

> > >

> > > And, that too can be your experience.

> > >

> > > Then, over the next few days, as the Moon goes into Virgo, it's

> > supposed to

> > > be influenced again! by Saturn do to it's supposed, 3rd house

> > aspect.

> > >

> > > But, you can experience that for yourself, objectively, and

> > dispassionately!

> > >

> > > These kinds of experience, verify and validate all the rules and

> > principles

> > > of Jyotish, and make this wisdom truely scienific and modern!

> > >

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > >

> > >

> > > Mark Kincaid

> > >

> > >

> > > ps... oh, yes one more point. I find the present, period, where

> > some

> > > 'Mahaishis' in fact, are encouraging all of us to become our own,

> > best

> > > Rishi!, and doing that, also will give an amazing power of

> > consciounsess,

> > > within, so as to better understand our Jyotish.

> > >

> > > Without the development of consciousness, Jyotish will continue

> to

> > be very

> > > vast, and almost,

> > > overwhelming...

> > > but,....

> > > with consciouness, Jyotish becomes simple, though profound, and

> > ultiamtely

> > > easy, natural, and understandable!

> > >

> > > Jai Guru!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Astrologer

> > > Teacher of Meditation & Ayurved

> > > /

> > > 1 641 472-0000.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > "Sabri" <korua@e...>

> > > vedic astrology

> > > Sun, 03 Jul 2005 13:27:30 -0000

> > > vedic astrology

> > > [vedic astrology] Who were Maharishis?-Student or Guru?

> > (Re: Is

> > > Rafal Genderaz a Student or Guru?)

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Narasimha-Ji, (Dear Friends),

> > >

> > > Thanking so much for the precious notes,

> > >

> > > - Even Spiritual Gurus have their destiny, and evolve during

> their

> > > lifetime, and are known to experiment, change their advises and

> > > teaching sometimes in a dramatic way.

> > > - In the field of knowledge, traditions are if not an

> > > absolute "must" are very very helpful. "The tradition cuts short

> > the

> > > long path of evolution".

> > > - The very nature of Knowledge is such that, it rises and falls

> in

> > > time to be revised and brought to light again. Knowledge like

> waves

> > > of an ocean come and shatter on the rocks of ignorance and is

> lost,

> > > only to be revived again at some later period of time when a

> > > knowledgable and able person is available for this revival. This

> is

> > > the very nature of knowledge.

> > > - For knowledge to flow from the heart of the Guru to the

> disciple,

> > > the disciple "must" approach the Guru, and warm his heart by

> giving

> > > due respect to the knowledge that the Guru has in posession, at

> > > which time only, the teaching starts and the Guru hands over the

> > > knowledge with great enthusiasm.

> > > - Knowledge is akin to light, since it dispells ignorance and

> > > darkness, sometimes for some, knowledge is bewildering, hence the

> > > doubts and reactions about knowledge itself and those who posess

> > it,

> > > on the part of those who are not *karmically* destined to take

> over

> > > that knowledge.

> > > - A subject as Jyotish is so complex and intricate and proper

> > > knowledge and mastering of it has so many prerequisites, not the

> > > least of which is that one should be evolved enough in the

> > direction

> > > of this specific knowledge.

> > > - The wise student, in my humble view, that I have learned from

> > > learned people, should always show respect first, should not

> judge,

> > > and be open to any new knowledge that may come from any direction

> > or

> > > source.

> > > - The Maharishis as Maharishi Parashara, were themselves coming

> > from

> > > a tradition and were "MAHA" Rishis, meaning, they were the

> > > clairvoyant seers, who would see in their minds eye, and express

> > > that which they have seen, for the benefit of others.

> > > - The book written by Maharishi Parashara is not a text or

> teaching

> > > book in the sense that we understand today! It is the written

> > record

> > > of what has been perceived by the enlightened mind of a Rishi,

> > about

> > > the laws of nature or intricate workings of the Universe

> > > specifically Jyotish. It is not that Maharishi Paraashara has sat

> > > down at one time, and had the intention; "O.K. now let me write a

> > > book to teach Jyotish to others", the book is of a different

> > nature,

> > > a written record of nature, which probably had originally been

> > > passed on through oral tradition. I therefore do not agree with

> the

> > > thought that the books of the Maharishis apply to ancient times

> and

> > > not appliacble today, since the laws of nature then and now are

> the

> > > same.

> > > - The schlokas themselves when read, or memorized have the

> quality

> > > of opening channels in the human brain towards attaining Jyotish

> > > Siddhi.

> > > - Most of us here, lacking this Siddhi, are trying to understand

> > the

> > > subject through intellectual processes, but most probably Sage

> > > Parashara would not think in terms of Guru is in this house, and

> is

> > > yuddhi Shukra etc. He would just see the reality. What is written

> > in

> > > his book is what he has seen about the laws of Jyotish, not about

> > > what he observed and experimented and thought was correct.

> > > - I personally have learnt, compared to my limited knowledge and

> > > experience, huge amounts of knowledge from the SJC Gurus,

> > > specifically through Sanjay and Narasimha-Ji, and therefore am

> > > thankful to them. I have learned also other material from other

> > > sources, for them also I am thankful.

> > >

> > > Best wishes, Sabri.

> > >

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"

> > > <pvr@c...> wrote:

> > > > Dear friend,

> > > >

> > > > I understand your motivation in asking this and I don't mean

> > > disrespect or insensitivity to anyone.

> > > >

> > > > But I just want to say a word about the more generic question

> of

> > > accepting the words of "Proper Gurus" of SJC as a gospel (I am

> not

> > > saying that you are suggesting that).

> > > >

> > > > I am one of the designated Jyotish Gurus of SJC and one of the

> > > earlier ones. I know for a fact that my knowledge has evolved a

> > long

> > > way from where it was when Sanjay ji decided a few years back

> that

> > I

> > > was fit to be a guru. Even today, I am not fully satisfied with

> my

> > > knowledge and constantly keep learning things and refining my

> > > understanding. I will never make a representation to anyone that

> I

> > > have perfect or nearly perfect knowledge. Still I will share my

> > > knowledge with others because even my half-baked knowledge may

> be a

> > > valuable treasure to somebody.

> > > >

> > > > Even Pt Sanjay Rath, the Parama Guru of SJC, does not have

> > perfect

> > > knowledge. I say this with all the respect and humility that I

> can

> > > possess. He himself said so. There were errors in his teachings

> and

> > > there may be more that we will find in future. I always

> maintained

> > > respect and, at the same time, the spirit of honest intellectual

> > > enquiry. And, there were occasions when my intellectual

> > independence

> > > proved worthwhile. For example, Sanjay and I disagreed on Moola

> > dasa

> > > definition and he later agreed with me. Sanjay taught Drigdasa

> one

> > > way and I had it in JHora that way for a long time. I taught it

> the

> > > same way in my book also. But, sometime back, I discovered that

> his

> > > version was influenced more by Narayana dasa and he had some

> > > discrepancies compared to Parasara's unambiguous verses on

> > Drigdasa.

> > > When I pointed it out, Sanjay ji looked at the verses and some

> > > examples and felt that Parasara was correct and his previous

> > > understanding was wrong.

> > > >

> > > > Thus, I do not take even Sanjay ji's words for granted and

> > > investigate them myself to find the Truth! When Sanjay ji himself

> > is

> > > fallible, how infallible can other Gurus be?

> > > >

> > > > The duty of a sincere student is to have respect for the

> teacher

> > > and study the teachings with the spirit of honest intellectual

> > > enquiry and confront the teacher when one has to disagree. A lot

> of

> > > people confuse between the ideal behavior ascribed to a sishya

> of a

> > > diksha guru (spiritual master) and to a sishya of a siksha guru.

> > > >

> > > > Bottomline: It is good to see that some people have confidence

> in

> > > SJC and SJC gurus. That is nice and I hope that SJC gurus will

> help

> > > you in advancing your knowledge. But, at the same time, it should

> > be

> > > borne in mind that we are dealing with a very rich and

> complicated

> > > subject that has been corrupted for a long time and trying to

> stage

> > > a renaissance. Nobody has a perfect understanding of the

> teachings

> > > of maharshis and we are constantly trying to improve. SJC and SJC

> > > Gurus will definitely make great contributions in the coming

> years,

> > > but we will invariably go thru phases of correction and

> evolution.

> > > Basically, we should realize that we all groping in the dark for

> > the

> > > same Light.

> > > >

> > > > No offense meant to anyone and hope none is taken!

> > > >

> > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> > > > Narasimha

> > > > ------------------------------

> -

> > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > > SJC website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > > ------------------------------

> -

> > > >

> > > > > Dear Rafal,

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for all your help on this forum. I was just

> > > wondering

> > > > > are you a Student of Astrology or a Proper Guru from the

> > > Jaganath

> > > > > Center? You are helping many members that is why. It is nice

> to

> > > know

> > > > > someone is there to help out. Take Care and Best of Luck!

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Nava

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Group info: vedic-

> astrology/info.html

> > >

> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> >

> > >

> > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Visit your group "vedic astrology

> > > <vedic astrology> " on the web.

> > >

> > >

> > > vedic astrology

> > > <vedic astrology?

> > subject=Un>

> > >

> > > Terms of

> > Service

> > > <> .

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

>

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Visit your group "vedic astrology

> > <vedic astrology> " on the web.

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology

> > <vedic astrology?

> subject=Un>

> >

> > Terms of

> Service

> > <> .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Visit your group "vedic astrology

<vedic astrology> " on the web.

vedic astrology

<vedic astrology?subject=Un> Your

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[Guest guest]

Dear Mark, Hi, Dear Friends,

 

Thanking so much for your further comments, that are very

significant, and are emphasizing the great importance of our Jyotish

charts (and Jyotish) to change

our lives.

 

As we all know, remedial measures are prescribed by classical texts

like Parashara's work, and form an equally important part of Jyotish

(one half of MBPHS is devoted to that).

 

Your approach I have noted over time is equally potent and important,

becoming even more apparent when we look at the lives of people who

are evolving spiritually.

 

For the benefit of all friends who could be interested; I would like

to raise a direct question, if you do not mind; Let's take the case

of a person in whose chart Mars is acting malefically and causing

disconfort in his life, let's say in relationships. How can this

person resolve this issue, e.g. what is your practical advise or

method to follow for this person? what should he do?

 

Regarding spiritual evolution, rising states of consciousness and the

general improvements in peoples lives, I have an observation; During

your posts, you have indicated; that in time the karma represented by

the jyotish chart gets loosened for the person evolving spiritually.

Also you have indicated that a person who has reached a certain level

of consciousness where the self is being experienced within, the

effects of what is happening outside in life does not bother him as

much as it did in the past. You have further noted that highly

advanced souls, retain their character (individuality) and behaviour

patterns despite the fact that their consciousness may be very highly

evolved.

 

With the above I agree fully. On the other hand I have come across

many times with people who display character or behavioural problems

despite the fact that they have spiritually evolved considerably.

This is striking due to the fact that on the one hand spiritual

techniques has transformed the person considerably but on the other

hand the person may be displaying behaviour that raises question

marks. This is so much so that, I have seen other people questioning

the validity or effectiveness of the spiritual techniques used, e.g.;

they say; "this person has been meditating for so many years, but

look at the behaviour he displays regarding this specifique issue!".

 

I have thought about this for a long while and have come to the

conclusion that spiritual techniques, as well as classical remedies

in Jyotish are *general* techniques and remedies, that are not always

very effective when it comes to resolving some specific issues as in

the above. Your approach as well as some other approaches that I have

studied, I beleive are needed or instrumental to resolve such

specific issues. I would appreciate it much if you can comment

further on this side of the picture; e.g. spiritual techniques and

classical remedies sometimes being not so effective in resolving

character or behavioural problems or transforming people in this

direction.

 

Thanking so much, best wishes, Sabri,

Jai Guru.

 

 

vedic astrology, Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...>

wrote:

> Namaskaar Sri Mark and Sri Sabri

>

> I am sorry for interrupting your dialogue. I couldn't help

commenting

> on what Mark has indicated:

> > You have indicated;

> > "In enlightenment, the deepest blocks to our infinite potential

will

> > be gone, but still, certain aspects of astrological personality

and

> > mental characteristics will still be there".

>

>

> Dear Bhrateiya:

>

> No problem. I think it's especially valuable contemplating these

issues of

> freedom and pre-conditionings, because for me, this helps me, fuel

the

> desire and strength to accomplish

> enlightenment.

>

> With the addition of the process of increasing stages of

Enlightenment, to

> our J¥otish, then, J¥otish can be more about increasing stages of

Selfhood,

> and Self Mastery, instead of just being fated.

>

> Obviously, for many their charts and lives are very engulfed by the

> boundries of thought forms and patterns and they don't

experience 'much'

> freedom in life.

>

> However, since our chart's are a reflection of our own karmic

desires, then,

> it's always still up to us, to change and grow, even in the

confines of

> these charts.

>

> When you add the true transformative power of Vedic wisdom to a

person's

> life, then, the so-called normal, fatedness of our chart's begins

to loosen.

>

> I've known many, many people who've started this great path of

> enlightenment, in this life, and I can see, just how much they've

been able

> to loosen the shackles of their malefics and deep pockets of stress

and

> rigidity.

>

> The stories and visions of the possibilities of the Vedic Seers, and

> enlightened beings, however, inspire us to turn to the inner, for a

> resolution of our problems and the growth of real power and wisdom

in life.

>

> There is ultimate, complete 'freedom', and Self-mastery in life,

and that

> can be seen, first in the life of the Universe itself; and then, in

those

> great, Maha souls who have enlightened their Selves.

>

> You hear about this sometimes, in Vedic literature, the role and

importance

> of self-effort.

>

> At every stage we're meant to desire and will ourselves forward, and

> ultimately, we'll arrive at a stage where our efforts and strivings

will

> bring us to fulfillment.

>

> This, 'consciousness' aspect of Ved, and even Jyotish, is amazingly

> signifigant because it represents the ultimate, 'remedial measure',

and path

> of self-mastery.

>

> In previous articles I wrote about how one's chart changes

depending upon

> the specific states of Consciousness that one is in.

>

> In 'ignorance' or waking state the degree of self-master¥ may be

> ver¥ limited.

>

> However, even a few moments, enlivening the inner glory of the

Self, will

> bring to us, the Light of the Self, which has the potential to

illuminate

> all things, and especially purify and even dissolve 'ALL' the

malefics in

> our charts!

>

> Practical experience, however, shows that then, adding the study

and unique

> remedial measures of Jyotish to the life of a 'meditator', also

will further

> empower us along the path of our enlightenment or charts.

>

> As the Self of the Universe, becomes more in light, and as we

enliven that

> inner power of the Self, then, life truely becomes an expression of

> increasing "all possibilities".

>

> The Self, itself, is often described as a field of all

possibilities.

>

> Experiencing 'it' is the first step, but there does come a time,

when the

> profundity and power of 'it', is never lost, throughout all the

stages of

> the 3 main states of consciousness, Waking, Dreaming & Sleeping.

>

> One will still be living a 'chart' but one inside, no longer so

closely

> identifies oneself, as the small limitations of that chart.

>

> When life rises to Brahman, then, looking back at this body and this

> individuality, one sees, that old self, but it becomes more like a

little

> leaf on a tree, in a small forest, in a small state, on a small

continent,

> on a small world, while you are 'THAT', but you are also the self,

that

> stretches, out from here,....to......... there.

>

> Using Jyotish, now, to enable us to stop creating mistakes and

stresses in

> our lives, is a wonderful addition to the normal benefits of things

like

> meditating, alone.

>

> Nice talking with you.

>

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

> Mark Kincaid

"bharateiya" <bharateiya>

> vedic astrology

> Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:29:29 -0000

> vedic astrology

> [vedic astrology] Re: 2-Sabir & all: re..... can one

grow out of

> the limitations of one's chart?

>

>

> Namaskaar Sri Mark and Sri Sabri

>

> I am sorry for interrupting your dialogue. I couldn't help

commenting

> on what Mark has indicated:

> > You have indicated;

> > "In enlightenment, the deepest blocks to our infinite potential

will

> > be gone, but still, certain aspects of astrological personality

and

> > mental characteristics will still be there".

>

> This is the state of Jeevan Mukta. The residual instinctual desires

> carry the body till it is also cast away. The issue of Ketu is

> prominent there, as it is the one which is instinctual. Futher

> desires, called as Prarabdha Karma Vasanas (desires emanating from

the

> reactions to Prarabdha) are not there as there is no identification

> with the desire.

>

> Ketu is the carrier of our actions by way of instincts. It is likely

> that this carries the subtle body bundle by the way of instincts

from

> death to next life.

>

> Other planets may play their role through Ketu in this case, but

their

> bindings are totally gone.

>

> I am not being affirmative, but the above seems very logical to me.

> Please do share your researches.

>

> Thanks and Regards

> Bharat

>

>

>

> vedic astrology, "Sabri" <korua@e...> wrote:

> > Dear Mark, Hi,

> >

> > Thanks so much for your beautiful reply and thoughts.

> >

> > Your unique approach to Jyotish has always been very valuable for

me.

> >

> > In your post, you have raised a very curucial issue, about how

> > spiritual methods change people, or, change some aspects and maybe

> > do not affect other aspects as much.

> >

> > You have indicated;

> > "In enlightenment, the deepest blocks to our infinite potential

will

> > be gone, but still, certain aspects of astrological personality

and

> > mental characteristics will still be there".

> >

> > On this I will have a question to think about in a few days

> > (unfortunately don't have enough time right now).

> >

> > Many many thanks, very best wishes,

> > Sabri.

> >

> > Jai Guru.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, Mark Kincaid

> > <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> > > Dear Mark, Hi,

> > >

> > > Thanks for the comments, and reminding us of the importance and

> > > practical validity of transits once again.

> > >

> > > Regarding your last point, about "consciousness" what do you

think

> > > about, or what is your experience re:, "the karmas indicated in

the

> > > birth chart, transforming through changes in consciousness (or

> > > tapas/propitiation for that matter)", e.g. about the theory that

> > one

> > > grows out of ones chart, through spiritual evolution, karmas

being

> > > indicated softened so to say?

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Sabri:

> > >

> > > I think there is an element of Jyotish, especially Consciousness

> > Jyotish,

> > > wherever we begin,

> > > we really can grow beyond the obvious limitations of our charts.

> > >

> > > I think for most people their chart's are more fatalistic if

they

> > never do

> > > anything especially Vedic to change their stars.

> > >

> > > Maharishi's Guru, Swami Brahmananda Sarasati used to say, there

> > were a

> > > million kinds of births you could take before human births, and

> > then after

> > > that, without meditation, thousands of life-times. However,

with

> > > meditation, we can so magnificanently, expand ourselves, that we

> > really can

> > > grow beyond the obvious limitations of our charts.

> > >

> > > I know many 'meditators', who report much lessening of the

obvious

> > lessening

> > > of the stresses, of their 'malefics' or charts, since

meditating,

> > and that's

> > > been my experience as well.

> > >

> > > But, then, add on top of that, the growth and self-development

of

> > the study

> > > of Jyotish, itself, and that, especially in conjunction with

> > meditation, is

> > > an amazing dual, Vedic remedy!

> > >

> > >

> > > Now, I believe that the malefics in our charts represent, really

> > the

> > > stresses or blocks in our enlightenment.

> > >

> > > And, as we go to the transcendental realm, and or, even, learn

how

> > to get

> > > more in-tune with those, so-called malefics, we can think in

terms

> > of

> > > eliminating all stresses!, or malefics.

> > >

> > > In enlightenment, the deepest blocks to our infinite potential

> > will be gone,

> > > but still, certain aspects of astrological personality and

mental

> > > characteristics will still be there.

> > >

> > > But, from the inside, we'll feel no restriction or limitations.

> > >

> > > Nice talking with you.

> > >

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > >

> > >

> > > Mark Kincaid

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > "Sabri" <korua@e...>

> > > vedic astrology

> > > Sun, 03 Jul 2005 21:57:48 -0000

> > > vedic astrology

> > > [vedic astrology] Re: 2-Sabir & all: re..... Who were

> > > Maharishis?->>> Mark Kincaid 7/3

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Mark, Hi,

> > >

> > > Thanks for the comments, and reminding us of the importance and

> > > practical validity of transits once again.

> > >

> > > Regarding your last point, about "consciousness" what do you

think

> > > about, or what is your experience re:, "the karmas indicated in

the

> > > birth chart, transforming through changes in consciousness (or

> > > tapas/propitiation for that matter)", e.g. about the theory that

> > one

> > > grows out of ones chart, through spiritual evolution, karmas

being

> > > indicated softened so to say?

> > >

> > > Best wishes,

> > >

> > > Sabri.

> > >

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, Mark Kincaid

> > > <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> > > > Dear Sabir:

> > > >

> > > > I very much enjoyed your email re. the Maharishi-Seers!

> > > >

> > > > I'd like to add a few thoughts.

> > > >

> > > > Even if the Ved, and books like Maharishi Parashara's book on

> > Hora

> > > > Astrology, are cognitions,

> > > > still,

> > > >

> > > > if their realities are eternal, and of the very laws of

> > nature,...

> > > >

> > > > then, their truths, and significances, will be there for us,

in

> > > the present!

> > > >

> > > > In other words, if something is true, then it will show it's

> > > validity, in

> > > > the every day reality of people today, and tomorrow and the

next!

> > > >

> > > > This has been my experience of Jyotish.

> > > >

> > > > All the principles and ideas that I have read about,

ultimately I

> > > found

> > > > alive and functioning, real!

> > > > so very real, in the live's of every one that I meet.

> > > >

> > > > That experience has convinced me of Jyotish's power and

insight,

> > > into

> > > > life....

> > > >

> > > > Now, after doing literally thousands of charts, over these

last

> > 18

> > > years, I

> > > > can say, with amazing conviction, that the principles of

Jyotish

> > > work! I

> > > > have not found one chart, in all these years, that hasn't

> > > really, 'fit' the

> > > > person, and been testaments of all the rules and principles of

> > > Jyotish.

> > > >

> > > > Also, the transits, of every day, life, out there, in the

World's

> > > > environment, follows the laws and principles of Jyotish.

> > > >

> > > > Take the Moon & Saturn for example. Jyotish has these rules

> > about

> > > > conjunction and aspects.

> > > > When you watch the Moon & Saturn collide, or aspect, which

> > happens

> > > every

> > > > month, you can really, 'feel' that!

> > > >

> > > > Take the Moon/conjunct with Saturn. This month, take July 7 &

> > > 8th, the Moon

> > > > goes into Cancer,

> > > > where SAturn is too. On those days you can 'feel' that

definite

> > > Saturn

> > > > affect upon the Moon, or heart and mind.

> > > >

> > > > It's unmistakable. Then, over the next few days, the Moon

> > slides

> > > into Leo,

> > > > where Saturn is supposed to 'not' influence the Moon so

directly.

> > > >

> > > > And, that too can be your experience.

> > > >

> > > > Then, over the next few days, as the Moon goes into Virgo,

it's

> > > supposed to

> > > > be influenced again! by Saturn do to it's supposed, 3rd house

> > > aspect.

> > > >

> > > > But, you can experience that for yourself, objectively, and

> > > dispassionately!

> > > >

> > > > These kinds of experience, verify and validate all the rules

and

> > > principles

> > > > of Jyotish, and make this wisdom truely scienific and modern!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sincerely,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Mark Kincaid

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ps... oh, yes one more point. I find the present, period,

where

> > > some

> > > > 'Mahaishis' in fact, are encouraging all of us to become our

own,

> > > best

> > > > Rishi!, and doing that, also will give an amazing power of

> > > consciounsess,

> > > > within, so as to better understand our Jyotish.

> > > >

> > > > Without the development of consciousness, Jyotish will

continue

> > to

> > > be very

> > > > vast, and almost,

> > > > overwhelming...

> > > > but,....

> > > > with consciouness, Jyotish becomes simple, though profound,

and

> > > ultiamtely

> > > > easy, natural, and understandable!

> > > >

> > > > Jai Guru!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Astrologer

> > > > Teacher of Meditation & Ayurved

> > > > /

> > > > 1 641 472-0000.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > "Sabri" <korua@e...>

> > > > vedic astrology

> > > > Sun, 03 Jul 2005 13:27:30 -0000

> > > > vedic astrology

> > > > [vedic astrology] Who were Maharishis?-Student or

Guru?

> > > (Re: Is

> > > > Rafal Genderaz a Student or Guru?)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear Narasimha-Ji, (Dear Friends),

> > > >

> > > > Thanking so much for the precious notes,

> > > >

> > > > - Even Spiritual Gurus have their destiny, and evolve during

> > their

> > > > lifetime, and are known to experiment, change their advises

and

> > > > teaching sometimes in a dramatic way.

> > > > - In the field of knowledge, traditions are if not an

> > > > absolute "must" are very very helpful. "The tradition cuts

short

> > > the

> > > > long path of evolution".

> > > > - The very nature of Knowledge is such that, it rises and

falls

> > in

> > > > time to be revised and brought to light again. Knowledge like

> > waves

> > > > of an ocean come and shatter on the rocks of ignorance and is

> > lost,

> > > > only to be revived again at some later period of time when a

> > > > knowledgable and able person is available for this revival.

This

> > is

> > > > the very nature of knowledge.

> > > > - For knowledge to flow from the heart of the Guru to the

> > disciple,

> > > > the disciple "must" approach the Guru, and warm his heart by

> > giving

> > > > due respect to the knowledge that the Guru has in posession,

at

> > > > which time only, the teaching starts and the Guru hands over

the

> > > > knowledge with great enthusiasm.

> > > > - Knowledge is akin to light, since it dispells ignorance and

> > > > darkness, sometimes for some, knowledge is bewildering, hence

the

> > > > doubts and reactions about knowledge itself and those who

posess

> > > it,

> > > > on the part of those who are not *karmically* destined to take

> > over

> > > > that knowledge.

> > > > - A subject as Jyotish is so complex and intricate and proper

> > > > knowledge and mastering of it has so many prerequisites, not

the

> > > > least of which is that one should be evolved enough in the

> > > direction

> > > > of this specific knowledge.

> > > > - The wise student, in my humble view, that I have learned

from

> > > > learned people, should always show respect first, should not

> > judge,

> > > > and be open to any new knowledge that may come from any

direction

> > > or

> > > > source.

> > > > - The Maharishis as Maharishi Parashara, were themselves

coming

> > > from

> > > > a tradition and were "MAHA" Rishis, meaning, they were the

> > > > clairvoyant seers, who would see in their minds eye, and

express

> > > > that which they have seen, for the benefit of others.

> > > > - The book written by Maharishi Parashara is not a text or

> > teaching

> > > > book in the sense that we understand today! It is the written

> > > record

> > > > of what has been perceived by the enlightened mind of a Rishi,

> > > about

> > > > the laws of nature or intricate workings of the Universe

> > > > specifically Jyotish. It is not that Maharishi Paraashara has

sat

> > > > down at one time, and had the intention; "O.K. now let me

write a

> > > > book to teach Jyotish to others", the book is of a different

> > > nature,

> > > > a written record of nature, which probably had originally been

> > > > passed on through oral tradition. I therefore do not agree

with

> > the

> > > > thought that the books of the Maharishis apply to ancient

times

> > and

> > > > not appliacble today, since the laws of nature then and now

are

> > the

> > > > same.

> > > > - The schlokas themselves when read, or memorized have the

> > quality

> > > > of opening channels in the human brain towards attaining

Jyotish

> > > > Siddhi.

> > > > - Most of us here, lacking this Siddhi, are trying to

understand

> > > the

> > > > subject through intellectual processes, but most probably Sage

> > > > Parashara would not think in terms of Guru is in this house,

and

> > is

> > > > yuddhi Shukra etc. He would just see the reality. What is

written

> > > in

> > > > his book is what he has seen about the laws of Jyotish, not

about

> > > > what he observed and experimented and thought was correct.

> > > > - I personally have learnt, compared to my limited knowledge

and

> > > > experience, huge amounts of knowledge from the SJC Gurus,

> > > > specifically through Sanjay and Narasimha-Ji, and therefore am

> > > > thankful to them. I have learned also other material from

other

> > > > sources, for them also I am thankful.

> > > >

> > > > Best wishes, Sabri.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"

> > > > <pvr@c...> wrote:

> > > > > Dear friend,

> > > > >

> > > > > I understand your motivation in asking this and I don't mean

> > > > disrespect or insensitivity to anyone.

> > > > >

> > > > > But I just want to say a word about the more generic

question

> > of

> > > > accepting the words of "Proper Gurus" of SJC as a gospel (I am

> > not

> > > > saying that you are suggesting that).

> > > > >

> > > > > I am one of the designated Jyotish Gurus of SJC and one of

the

> > > > earlier ones. I know for a fact that my knowledge has evolved

a

> > > long

> > > > way from where it was when Sanjay ji decided a few years back

> > that

> > > I

> > > > was fit to be a guru. Even today, I am not fully satisfied

with

> > my

> > > > knowledge and constantly keep learning things and refining my

> > > > understanding. I will never make a representation to anyone

that

> > I

> > > > have perfect or nearly perfect knowledge. Still I will share

my

> > > > knowledge with others because even my half-baked knowledge may

> > be a

> > > > valuable treasure to somebody.

> > > > >

> > > > > Even Pt Sanjay Rath, the Parama Guru of SJC, does not have

> > > perfect

> > > > knowledge. I say this with all the respect and humility that I

> > can

> > > > possess. He himself said so. There were errors in his

teachings

> > and

> > > > there may be more that we will find in future. I always

> > maintained

> > > > respect and, at the same time, the spirit of honest

intellectual

> > > > enquiry. And, there were occasions when my intellectual

> > > independence

> > > > proved worthwhile. For example, Sanjay and I disagreed on

Moola

> > > dasa

> > > > definition and he later agreed with me. Sanjay taught Drigdasa

> > one

> > > > way and I had it in JHora that way for a long time. I taught

it

> > the

> > > > same way in my book also. But, sometime back, I discovered

that

> > his

> > > > version was influenced more by Narayana dasa and he had some

> > > > discrepancies compared to Parasara's unambiguous verses on

> > > Drigdasa.

> > > > When I pointed it out, Sanjay ji looked at the verses and some

> > > > examples and felt that Parasara was correct and his previous

> > > > understanding was wrong.

> > > > >

> > > > > Thus, I do not take even Sanjay ji's words for granted and

> > > > investigate them myself to find the Truth! When Sanjay ji

himself

> > > is

> > > > fallible, how infallible can other Gurus be?

> > > > >

> > > > > The duty of a sincere student is to have respect for the

> > teacher

> > > > and study the teachings with the spirit of honest intellectual

> > > > enquiry and confront the teacher when one has to disagree. A

lot

> > of

> > > > people confuse between the ideal behavior ascribed to a sishya

> > of a

> > > > diksha guru (spiritual master) and to a sishya of a siksha

guru.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bottomline: It is good to see that some people have

confidence

> > in

> > > > SJC and SJC gurus. That is nice and I hope that SJC gurus will

> > help

> > > > you in advancing your knowledge. But, at the same time, it

should

> > > be

> > > > borne in mind that we are dealing with a very rich and

> > complicated

> > > > subject that has been corrupted for a long time and trying to

> > stage

> > > > a renaissance. Nobody has a perfect understanding of the

> > teachings

> > > > of maharshis and we are constantly trying to improve. SJC and

SJC

> > > > Gurus will definitely make great contributions in the coming

> > years,

> > > > but we will invariably go thru phases of correction and

> > evolution.

> > > > Basically, we should realize that we all groping in the dark

for

> > > the

> > > > same Light.

> > > > >

> > > > > No offense meant to anyone and hope none is taken!

> > > > >

> > > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> > > > > Narasimha

> > > > > ---------------------------

---

> > -

> > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):

http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows):

http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > > > SJC website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > > > ---------------------------

---

> > -

> > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Rafal,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks for all your help on this forum. I was just

> > > > wondering

> > > > > > are you a Student of Astrology or a Proper Guru from the

> > > > Jaganath

> > > > > > Center? You are helping many members that is why. It is

nice

> > to

> > > > know

> > > > > > someone is there to help out. Take Care and Best of Luck!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > Nava

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Group info: vedic-

> > astrology/info.html

> > > >

> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> > >

> > > >

> > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Visit your group "vedic astrology

> > > > <vedic astrology> " on the web.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology

> > > > <vedic astrology?

> > > subject=Un>

> > > >

> > > > Terms of

> > > Service

> > > > <> .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Group info: vedic-

astrology/info.html

> > >

> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> >

> > >

> > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Visit your group "vedic astrology

> > > <vedic astrology> " on the web.

> > >

> > >

> > > vedic astrology

> > > <vedic astrology?

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