2-Mumin,.....Open Letter to Mark Kincaid On Vedic Astrological Matters, Etc.

[Guest guest]

I agree with Mark. This is a discussion group on Jyotish. If members

only want to change others to "their ideas or beliefs" on Jyotish,

then, they show their own weakness not to give enough freedom or

respect to others.

 

Without naming, someone also mentioned about using Jyotish estorically

is wrong. In this view, I would like to remind that Jyotish is a

Vedanga. Vedanga is a means to study the Veda. The words Veda means

knowledge and it is a pramaana (Sri Adi Sankara) that whatever that

is, is Brahman (Truth, Sat Chit Ananda).

 

Therefore Jyotish becomes a means to know that. The Vedas talk about

the self binding due to ignorance of Truth. Jyotish helps us

understand the bindings (grahas as seizers have that effect)and gives

us anti dotes to come out of it.

 

That it enables us to see future effects of bindings is extra option.

Like I asked for Sourav's birth details the other day: I found him to

be overreactive to people's thoughts and suggestions. In reaction,

many people also reacted back at him. I found his mind (moon) aspected

both by Mars and Saturn. And Mars is debilitated and therefore Sourav

is prone to thinking that any person not agreeing to his view point is

an adversary. It does not come from courage but comes from his

thinking that he would lose this battle of words and therefore, his

own low self esteem (debilitated Mangal). He, therefore, requires

continuous good appraisal from other friends and "masters", which keep

him happy.

 

He, is thus bound by it and reacts. Yet, he has stopped reacting since

he has come in touch with his Guru. This is a fact that only Sourav

can confirm. Guru, being a badhaka (taking lagna to be gemini and I

choose not to correct it), has bound his reactive nature and created a

badhana to that expression. So one bandan causes reaction and the

other stalls it.

 

I also would like to say something to those who reacted to his

statements. By understanding jyotish, you all need not have reacted to

his stance for he is governed by grahas too (to the extent he lets them)

 

I choose to leave such an analysis here and now but pray to the

subtler intellect of all members to let everyone speak their know-how.

It will only add to the learning.

 

Hari Om Tat Sat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

vedic astrology, Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...>

wrote:

> Dear Mu:

>

> Well, this is obviously where we differ.

>

> In fact, you don't have to take advantage of my perspective or my ideas.

>

> It's really not up to you, really to judge or to critize.

>

> But, I'll say this, because you seem to not be able to get away from

your

> own Mars in Virgo, propensity to continually critizize,

>

> I'll say, I am following my heart with reference to Jyotish,

>

> and especially I'm following my Guru's prompts.

>

> I am a student of his Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who is one of the

> most fascinating and unique scholoars of all Vedic Science, and he

himself,

> has followed a path of what he calls: "enlivening and revising, this

> ancient Wisdom."

>

> I'm also coming from a deeply, transformative aspect of Vedic Science,

> which stems from my over 35 years of transcendental experience.

>

> My Maharishi has often said there are a number of very important

present day

> aspects of Ved that are incorrect or mistaken.

>

> One of the most important is that it's very difficult to evolve, and

very

> hard to find enlightenment.

>

> In this regard he has said his re-interpretation and insight into

the nature

> of meditation, has completely changed and begun a process of complete

> re-understanding as to the value, scope and possibilities of meditation.

>

> Likewise, Maharishi has spent many years now, working with each of

the Vedic

> Sciences, and where it's been necessary helping the Vedic Pundits and

> Scholars re-work, and revitalize this ancient wisdom.

>

> I'll mention one example of yaguas. Yaguas have been there forever, in

> Indian culture and are described as very beneficial Vedic

performances to

> improve the quality of life of individuals and society as a whole.

>

> However, Maharishi has said the success of these performances and of

yaguas

> has been lacking because the key to their success has been lacking.

>

> The key, according to Maharishi has been the inner consciousness of the

> Vedic pundits. But, because the enlivenment of the field of pure

awareness

> has not been there, then the performances have not been as successful as

> possible.

>

> Maharishi has put attention on all the Vedic Sciences including

Ghandharva,

> Yoga, Stapyaved, and even Jyotish.

>

> And, though I'm not formally working for the Maharish's World-wide

movement,

> I can honestly say, my development and insights into Jyotish come

from this

> unique development in the entire field of Vedic Science.

>

> Now, you are free to enjoy and appreciate or not my Jyotish, just

like I can

> feel one way or another about 'yours'.

>

> However, I would suggest you put your attention on your own Jyotish, and

> leave your so-called constructive criticisms to God.

>

> I would also suggest if you don't appreciate my Jyotish that you

leave the

> that I've created since we don't seem to be able to

converse,

> without this rancor, and irritableness which I don't especially

appreciate.

>

>

>

> Sincerely,

>

>

>

>

> Mark Kincaid

>

>

>

>

> > Mu'Min Bey <mumin_bey>

> > panastroforum@t...

> > Thu, 28 Apr 2005 09:22:03 -0700 (PDT)

> > , Vedic Astrology

> > <vedic astrology>, "Jyotish Remedies..."

> > <>, "b) "

> > <>, panastroforum@t...

> > Open Letter to Mark Kincaid On Vedic Astrological

Matters, Etc.

> >

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> >

> > Open Letter to Mark Kincaid On Vedic Astrological

> > Matters, Etc.

> >

> > 11:55 AM 4/27/05 Wed

> >

> > Dear Mark,

> >

> > I have watched your activities for some time, mostly

> > with a good degree of dismay. I say that because of

> > the general tenor and tone of your writings and so on,

> > which is more and more becoming eblematic of Vedic

> > Astrology in the West/USA; in other words, they're

> > becoming bascially, Jyotish in Western Astrology drag.

> >

> >

> > More and more jyotishis in the West have taken to

> > aping their Western Astrology "betters" by adopting

> > the aforementioned thinking, which you speak so

> > glowingly of in your most recent "ad";

> > "self-improvement".

> >

> > Without question, Vedic Astrology recognizes

> > self-improvement as much as any of the branches of

> > Western Astrology does; but Jyotish also recognizes

> > that there are some things in this life that cannot be

> > avoided, and indeed, much of Jyotish's philosophical

> > framework operates on this idea. Therefore, although a

> > person may be able to use a "remedy" to avoid the more

> > uglier aspects of a particular combination, it may be

> > better for that person in the long run to endure the

> > results of said combination, for the betterment of

> > that person later on down the line.

> >

> > Having intensely involved with Vedic Astrology since

> > the late 90s, I have watched as more and more American

> > Vedic astrologers basically copying the thinking and

> > even methods of the Western astrologers (aside from

> > the "quick fix remedy" approaches, the increasing use

> > of Western Outer Planets in the Vedic horoscope and so

> > on). Perhaps even more disturbing, is this tendency on

> > the part of so many American jyotishis to have a

> > "hippie" type of approach, where all manner of new age

> > mysticism is brought into what the vast majority of

> > Indians consider to be a rather straightfoward affair

> > - going to see an astrologer and getting no-nonsense

> > information and answers to life's everyday problems.

> >

> > Being one that seems to have some level of

> > understanding of India, you surely must know that

> > Indians rarely seek out jyotishis for "the meaning of

> > life". About a third of all my clients are IN India,

> > and in some 6 years, I have yet to have one ask me for

> > such info. In the main, their concerns fall into

> > pretty distinct, and I would say, mundane, areas:

> >

> > 1. Marital prospects, either for themselves and/or

> > their kids

> >

> > 2. Business concerns, which often includes

> > educational, career, licensing and/or immigration

> > concerns

> >

> > 3. Health concerns, which usually concerns the onset

> > and duration of a particular ailment or disease.

> >

> > The argument is often raised here in the States that

> > people here want to understand themselves and the

> > like, but again, my own experience on the ground,

> > since the early 90s (when I began my Western Astrology

> > studies) controverts this. In the main, my native born

> > clientele aren't that much different from my off-shore

> > clients - they pretty much want the same things.

> >

> > In short, it is my contention that so many of the

> > American born jyotishis simply "want" to inject their

> > own spiritual opinions and the like. Most Americans

> > have no interest in such things.

> >

> > Among the many problems I have with you, Mr. Kincaid,

> > is that you continually stray from the heart of

> > Jyotish, with your long and meandering writings about

> > the planets, and how one is supposed to "work" with

> > them in the way Western modern astrologers advocate;

> > one is hard pressed to find such support in either the

> > Jyotish classics or in the more modern writings of

> > such people as KN Rao or BV Raman, etc. While reading

> > your writings, it is difficult to grasp what you are

> > advocating, a Vedic or Western astrological approach.

> >

> > Furthermore, I find less and less your writing having

> > to do with actual research and observation - areas

> > that would demand brevity of expression and accuracy

> > as a prerequisite - but more about speculation and

> > flights of fancy; you don't use preceedant (classical

> > or modern) to backup your writings and the like, but

> > rather "individualism" as your authority - something

> > that is clearly at variance with any Jyotishical

> > teaching (but is the rage in Western modern astrology,

> > where anything can mean anything to anyone; this why

> > Western astrologers can't agree on basic things like

> > Saturn Retrograde, for example). On several occasions

> > in your forum, we have gone back and forth on this

> > point, to which you have yet to respond with any

> > actual studies, research or case examples to back up

> > your ruminations. Such things are not only outside the

> > Jyotish canon, theory and practice, but also puts it

> > at greater risk for "anybody" to just come in and do

> > their thing. Here in the USA, the quick fix is in, and

> > anything that smacks of doing the harder work of

> > study, reflection and experience is eschewed in the

> > name of rapidity and indulgence without consequences.

> > All of this is anathema to Jyotish practice and

> > thought.

> >

> > The other problem I have with you is in your continual

> > "hawking" of your products and services. Many native

> > born jyotishis, including Rao and Raman, have had

> > choice words for those who would market their

> > services. I tend to be deeply suspicious of such

> > people, for my own experience has shown me that those

> > who give their Jyotish knowledge without thought of

> > reward, tend to be far and away more accurate and to

> > the point than those who don't.

> >

> > It is my hope that you put your energy more into focus

> > on the heart of Jyotish, where it is my contention you

> > are likely to make the most impact. On the present

> > course, your and other's actions only serve to muddy

> > the already murky waters of the Astrological science

> > and how it's seen by the public.

> >

> > Salaam,

> > Mu

> >

> > --- Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> >

> >> Become Your Own Best

> >> Astrologer!

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> A friend of mine mentioned to me the other day, that

> >> it's recently

> >> been projected that the "4th most in-demand, job, in

> >> the future, will

> >> be Astrologers."

> >>

> >> I laughed when I heard that. I think it might be

> >> true!

> >> Certainly it's been my experience that becoming a

> >> professional Astrologer,

> >> is the best thing I've ever done. I used to be a

> >> Meditation teacher, which

> >> I loved a lot. However, when I discovered

> >> Astrology, I found an even more

> >> comprehensive knowledge that actually incorporates

> >> every aspect of life.

> >>

> >> See, not everyone's ready for, quote: 'meditation',

> >> or a spiritual life.

> >> Most

> >> people just want to become a greater success, in

> >> this life!

> >>

> >> Well, Astrology understands that and has in fact,

> >> very insightful things

> >> to say for any individual that wants to become more

> >> of a success in life.

> >>

> >> All of us, in these Astrology 'groups' are learning

> >> such amazing things re-

> >> lated to Astrology and life.

> >>

> >> #1, the symbolisms of Astrology, 'fit'! In fact,

> >> there's a very precise

> >> 1to1

> >> Correspondence between all the details of our live's

> >> and our Astrological

> >> charts.

> >> This is what's underlying all our questions and

> >> answers, and what it means

> >> to have the Moon in the 3rd house, with Mars &

> >> Venus. Or, why am I so

> >> unconventionally creative? Or, why do I have so

> >> many accidents? Or, why

> >> am I attracted to engineering? Or, why do I have

> >> tensions with my Mother,

> >> but not my Father? Or, why do I ......?

> >>

> >> For every conceivable question; there's a clear and

> >> precise Astrological

> >> reason!

> >>

> >> This fact, alone, is why Astrology has continued for

> >> all these centuries.

> >> It Works!

> >>

> >> Each one of us, however, needs to know this.

> >>

> >> In the past, it was enough to just go to a

> >> professional Astrologer, whenever

> >> we

> >> had questions, or problems in our life. Now,

> >> millions of individuals are

> >> wanting

> >> to know their own Astrology, for themselves!

> >>

> >> In this spirit I am starting a new , that

> >> will be totally focused

> >> on

> >> learning each and every aspect of our Astrology. It

> >> will be primarily

> >> Jyotish, or

> >> Eastern Astrology, based, though many of the best

> >> ideas of Western

> >> Astrology,

> >> including the possibility that our Astrology is also

> >> about our futures, and

> >> latent

> >> opportunities, in life, will also be discussed.

> >>

> >> #2 This leads me to my second point. Astrology

> >> traditionally has been

> >> about

> >> one's 'fate' or pre-determinism. In other words, it

> >> was based very strongly

> >> in the

> >> feeling that this life, that our Astrology charts,

> >> are mostly about the

> >> things that 'will' happen.

> >>

> >> I remember when I first started studying Jyotish way

> >> back in 1988. Every

> >> book you'd pick up would have approximately 195

> >> pages on the Astrology, or

> >> how

> >> our charts fit us. And, then, at the very end, 5

> >> pages on something called

> >> Remedial

> >> Measures. Almost like an afterthought, I thought,

> >> tacked on at the end.

> >>

> >> Even back then, I thought this percentage was very

> >> imbalanced. Perhaps it

> >> was

> >> because of my strong, meditative background. Even

> >> in 1988, I'd already been

> >> meditating for over 18 years and growing in all the

> >> values of profound

> >> self-improvement.

> >>

> >> So, the idea of Jyotish remedial measures, of course

> >> made sense. Over the

> >> years,

> >> however, I realized the % was all wrong. Eventually

> >> I realized it should be

> >> more like,

> >> 50/50! It's not enough to just intellectually

> >> 'understand' why we're the

> >> way we are.

> >> The nature of human life, includes the fact that we

> >> want to grow. We want

> >> to improve

> >> ourselves, and accomplish certain things, which are

> >> really about the

> >> 'transformative'

> >> side to life. 2% is not nearly enough!

> >>

> >> Now, many years later, I realize even spending 50%

> >> of your time, discovering

> >> why

> >> we're the way we are, is not really necessary. Now

> >> I understand one needs

> >> to spend,

> >> only as much time, figuring out the 'whys' of

> >> Astrology; till one desires

> >> the ability to

> >> change.

> >>

> >> Today, I constantly run into people, who after just

> >> one conversation about

> >> how their

> >> Saturn or Mars, or Rahu, is causing their problems;

> >> then say: "Okay!, What

> >> can I do

> >> to improve my Saturn!" Maybe it should be more like

> >> 30/70%. Spend 30% of

> >> your time

> >> figuring out 'why' and then spend 70% of one's time

> >> and energy, in improving

> >> the

> >> malefics, in our charts!

> >>

> >> Whatever the percentage, the age of self-improvement

> >> is upon us, and

> >> Astrology can

> >> lead the way. However, Astrology needs to stop

> >> becoming so wrapped up in

> >> 'fate' and

> >> pre-destiny, and begin focusing on transformation

> >> and self-development.

> >>

> >> It's really what we're here to do. We're not here,

> >> to just go through the

> >> motions, and

> >> live our lives, from a level of puppet,

> >> pre-determinism. No! We're meant

> >> to grow.

> >> We're meant to evolve. The fascinating thing is, we

> >> can still choose, to

> >> evolve more slowly.

> >> But, the 'choice' is up to us!

> >>

> >> #2 Therefore the second most important aspect of

> >> Jyotish and Astrology is

> >> self-improvement.

> >> I like the word transformation because some say that

> >> Jyotish/Astrology rules

> >> the 8th house.

> >> And some like to describe the 8th house, not as

> >> fate, or death, or 'fixed'

> >> qualities, like obsessions,

> >> and addictions. Some call the 8th house, the house

> >> of transformation!

> >>

> >>

> >> Look at the United State's chart. Several very

> >> important planets in the 8th

> >> house of

> >> self-transformation. And, if there was any quality

> >> that has dominated the

> >> life of America;

> >> it's been self-improvement.

> >>

> >> In the early days it was progressing, rapidly across

> >> the plains of America.

> >> Later that thirst to grow, became more internalized

> >> and

> > === message truncated ===

> >

> >

> > Mu'Min M. Bey

> > Western and Vedic Astrologer

> > Check out my site:

> > muminbey.tripod.com

> > "The Future of Astrology, is Here..."

> > AOL IM Screen Name: JediMu

> > Join the Pan Astrological Forum, Where Freedom in Astrological

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