Guest guest Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 Dear Pradeep, > Thus the riddle of twin is just one among the numerous ones > which is difficult to solve.This does not mean we can deform basics. I too can suggest that YOU are "deforming basics". But, unlike you, I realize that it is against the decorum of an intelligent debate. As far as I can see, the approach you are advocating (i.e. taking no houses in divisions) does NOT have enough degrees of freedom to distinguish between twins or closely born people. If you disagree, please explain the glaring difference I mentioned between the two twins whose charts I gave, using your approach! > Ourselves getting satisfied with analysis cannot be a logical > conclusion or assertion. Whether my analysis of some twins is correct or not, the approach I advocate atleast has the ability to distinguish between twins in a big way. I don't see that ability in your approach. That is my whole point. > Thanks for the data.But for twins - The chart given by ennaye > proves your claim insufficient.When taken through Ceasaran section, > even shastiamshas can be the same. You are jumping to hasty conclusions based on the charts of 5 month old twins, about whom we know precious little yet! If lagna and 9 planets are in the same signs, do you say the charts are identical? Aren't hora lagna, ghati lagna, pranapada lagna, varnada lagna etc good for nothing? Was Parasara foolish to teach them? In the charts given by ennaye on vedic astrology list, pranapada lagna changes sign even in rasi. Pranapada lagna shows the manifestation of life force. With it in different signs in rasi, the two twins can have totally different temperaments. The babies in the charts given by ennaye are just 5 months old. We don't really know if their fortunes are significantly different. We have to wait and find out. The physical differences in temperament etc can be explained using the pranapada lagna change in rasi. If GL and HL are different in some divisions, there can be some status differencesin associated areas. But, if lagna in shashtyamsa is the same, I expect them to have similar karmas. Bottomline is that these babies are too small and we don't yet know about their life patterns. On the other hand, the twin example I gave belongs to aduclts about whom things are known. There is a huge difference between the twins and it can be beautifully explained using divisions as charts with houses. Your approach does not have the ability to even attempt to explain. May Jupiter's light shine on us,Narasimha-------------------------------Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.netFree Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org SJC website: http://www.SriJagannath.org------------------------------- > Dear Narasimha ji> > I am not agreeing to lagnas navamsha and features just for the case > of twins.It is applicable for any jataka and has been my view always.> > Ourselves getting satisfied with analysis cannot be a logical > conclusion or assertion.In the case of Pope we have seen this.If you > agree with this, fine.Else please read the following. > > Thanks for the data.But for twins - The chart given by ennaye > proves your claim insufficient.When taken through Ceasaran section, > even shastiamshas can be the same.> > Also when children are born for different parents(quoting > Jagannathan ji) in the same hospital - the story is no different.In > this case Parent's Karma is the clue.Now nadiamshas can also be > helpful. Thus the riddle of twin is just one among the numerous ones > which is difficult to solve.This does not mean we can deform basics.> > Of course the explanations in Saravali are general and cannot be > taken verbatim.But so is the case with any other astrological > shloka - one has to account for modifications. > > But this is an excellent proof that within a rashi, various points > carry different meanings.These are not mappings.A planet has got > full control over kshethra - but this kshethra is again divided and > roles are given based on the type of division.Hence lordship for the > first navamsha within in Aries Rashi is given to Mars himself, while > the last one is> given to Guru.Vargottama can be better understood if we study this > aspect carefully.When my Lagna or any other Bhava lord falls in a > division ruled by its dispositor - it is vargottama - it is under > the area controlled by the same planet at navamsha as well as > kshethra level.In shastyamsha - we are checking our planet/lagnas > influence closely(within half a degree) - Hence more vimshopaka bala.> > I do not want to repeat the points again.You may kindly read the 3 > messages(as addressed to shri Saurav) i have posted and answer my > doubts.You may choose from - a)logically prove me wrong b) agree > that the new theory (bhavas in vargamshas - not advised by Parashra) > is only an assumption c)inspite of valid points - you are not going > to agree.> > Whatever be the answer ,i am happy.I am requesting this as you are > logically answering my doubts and doing a constructive debate.> > Thanks> Pradeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2005 Report Share Posted April 25, 2005 --dear Sir PVR, This mail was addressed to Shri Pradeep but I am taking the liberty to write to you regarding the horoscopes of twins. Hope you don't mind this intrusion. There is so much one learns from the communications of enlightened gurus such as yourself,and I am grateful to you for pointing out to me the direction where differences in the charts of twins can lie even when the difference in birth timings are very very negligible. I am not very well conversant with the Jaimini sutras and hence never looked in that direction. Now I find that as you mentioned the Pranpad lagnas of both are different. What that signifies I still do not know. The HL, GL are also different. Any good books on Jaimini Sutras you could suggest? Coming to your observation that the babies are too small and we do not know which way they are headed so giving any kind of predictions would not be right. Perhaps you are right, but therein lies the real test of a learned astrologer. Many like us would not like to stick our heads out in such a situation but experienced astrologers can still say something about them. Another question: If the differences are not there in any of the divisional charts then should we revert to Jaimini system in all cases of twin charts? Mixing of the two systems will it not lead to some anomalies in the reading? I hope you dont mind my asking these questions as I am still a student of astrology and these questions are related to my quest for knowledge of this fascinating feild. Regards, ennaye - In vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao" <pvr@c...> wrote: > Dear Pradeep, > > > Thus the riddle of twin is just one among the numerous ones > > which is difficult to solve.This does not mean we can deform basics. > > I too can suggest that YOU are "deforming basics". But, unlike you, I realize that it is against the decorum of an intelligent debate. > > As far as I can see, the approach you are advocating (i.e. taking no houses in divisions) does NOT have enough degrees of freedom to distinguish between twins or closely born people. If you disagree, please explain the glaring difference I mentioned between the two twins whose charts I gave, using your approach! > > > Ourselves getting satisfied with analysis cannot be a logical > > conclusion or assertion. > > Whether my analysis of some twins is correct or not, the approach I advocate atleast has the ability to distinguish between twins in a big way. I don't see that ability in your approach. That is my whole point. > > > Thanks for the data.But for twins - The chart given by ennaye > > proves your claim insufficient.When taken through Ceasaran section, > > even shastiamshas can be the same. > > You are jumping to hasty conclusions based on the charts of 5 month old twins, about whom we know precious little yet! > > If lagna and 9 planets are in the same signs, do you say the charts are identical? Aren't hora lagna, ghati lagna, pranapada lagna, varnada lagna etc good for nothing? Was Parasara foolish to teach them? > > In the charts given by ennaye on vedic astrology list, pranapada lagna changes sign even in rasi. Pranapada lagna shows the manifestation of life force. With it in different signs in rasi, the two twins can have totally different temperaments. > > The babies in the charts given by ennaye are just 5 months old. We don't really know if their fortunes are significantly different. We have to wait and find out. The physical differences in temperament etc can be explained using the pranapada lagna change in rasi. If GL and HL are different in some divisions, there can be some status differencesin associated areas. But, if lagna in shashtyamsa is the same, I expect them to have similar karmas. Bottomline is that these babies are too small and we don't yet know about their life patterns. > > On the other hand, the twin example I gave belongs to aduclts about whom things are known. There is a huge difference between the twins and it can be beautifully explained using divisions as charts with houses. Your approach does not have the ability to even attempt to explain. > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha > ------------------------------- > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net > Free Jyotish software (Windows): http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > SJC website: http://www.SriJagannath.org > ------------------------------- > > > Dear Narasimha ji > > > > I am not agreeing to lagnas navamsha and features just for the case > > of twins.It is applicable for any jataka and has been my view always. > > > > Ourselves getting satisfied with analysis cannot be a logical > > conclusion or assertion.In the case of Pope we have seen this.If you > > agree with this, fine.Else please read the following. > > > > Thanks for the data.But for twins - The chart given by ennaye > > proves your claim insufficient.When taken through Ceasaran section, > > even shastiamshas can be the same. > > > > Also when children are born for different parents(quoting > > Jagannathan ji) in the same hospital - the story is no different.In > > this case Parent's Karma is the clue.Now nadiamshas can also be > > helpful. Thus the riddle of twin is just one among the numerous ones > > which is difficult to solve.This does not mean we can deform basics. > > > > Of course the explanations in Saravali are general and cannot be > > taken verbatim.But so is the case with any other astrological > > shloka - one has to account for modifications. > > > > But this is an excellent proof that within a rashi, various points > > carry different meanings.These are not mappings.A planet has got > > full control over kshethra - but this kshethra is again divided and > > roles are given based on the type of division.Hence lordship for the > > first navamsha within in Aries Rashi is given to Mars himself, while > > the last one is > > given to Guru.Vargottama can be better understood if we study this > > aspect carefully.When my Lagna or any other Bhava lord falls in a > > division ruled by its dispositor - it is vargottama - it is under > > the area controlled by the same planet at navamsha as well as > > kshethra level.In shastyamsha - we are checking our planet/lagnas > > influence closely(within half a degree) - Hence more vimshopaka bala. > > > > I do not want to repeat the points again.You may kindly read the 3 > > messages(as addressed to shri Saurav) i have posted and answer my > > doubts.You may choose from - a)logically prove me wrong b) agree > > that the new theory (bhavas in vargamshas - not advised by Parashra) > > is only an assumption c)inspite of valid points - you are not going > > to agree. > > > > Whatever be the answer ,i am happy.I am requesting this as you are > > logically answering my doubts and doing a constructive debate. > > > > Thanks > > Pradeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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