Multiple replies / Shri Utpal /Panditji/Jagannathan ji

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Jagannathan .

April 23, 2005

i am happy to read your kind and loving mail.you are all men of knowledge and

skills.You are real seekers.I have no doubt.I pray to God for your success.

Just like anyother person,I am attracted by the great works of Rishis and

particularly the Nadi Grandhas which seem to be mysterious .Alas, we lost our

rich heritage and what we have now left with us ,seems to be only bones and

ashes of the past.

Regards,

jagannathan.vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep > wrote:

Dear shri Utpal As Jagannathan ji has mentioned there are many things which

cannot beexplained without experience and sadhana.For this we have to study

andpersevere for years.There are no short cuts.If we cannot understand -it does

not mean we can use bhavas everywhere. If the twins are taken out in emergency

by ceasarian section then itis even possible to have same shastiamsha.I hope

people will not bring in bhavas for nadiamshas.Navamsha has significance due to

concurrence with nakshathrapadas.Vedic astrology is rooted in nakshathras.It is

also a division.Dear Jagannathan jiYour posts and writings are very balanced.I

respect your open view.Inever said my view is correct.I am just asking

questions.Even the lord is learning.Avataras of bhagavan too were subjected

tokarma and results.It is this

continuous learning that keeps theuniverse alive.RespectPradeep--- In

vedic astrology, kapisthalam jagannathanwrote:> Dear Sir,> I

have been reading your kind mails.> Suppose two or more than two are born at

almost the same time ,date,place etc ,may be to different parents, how are we

account fordifferences amongst them astrologically.let alone the question

oftwins.?I wish some astrologer explains.> Regards,> jagannathan.> > Utpal

Pathak wrote:> Dear Pandit ji & Pradeep ji (You both deserve to be JI for Me)>

> Are we not casting 'Navmansha Chart' and give importance (pl. readMuch) to

it. if D9 Chart, being a Varga chart can be analysed with somuch intrest in

judging any chart then the same logic should alsoapply to other Varga Charts.>

> You asked following things> > > Both

have the same navamsha. If twins case can be explained > > with> > > divisional

charts, are you suggesting that both will get married at> > > the same time ?

Will their spouses nature will be identical ?> > > I am really surprised about

your question at the same time I am veryvery curious to know the answer for

you. Without not taking any helpfrom any other Vargas and just by Looking the

same Navmansha & Rashi,how you convincingly suggest to find out the marriage

timing andnature of Spouses etc..> > At least the other Vargas provide some

Valuable insight in to thedifferences in the different areas of lives of twins.

if not d9 thend10 or D12 or D16 or D24 or D30 OR Shatyamsa.> > For Example: -

Mark Waugh & Steve Waugh had Career in Similar field(Cricket) but their

Achievements, Span of Career, Exploits & Talentswere not Identical. i don't

have their birth

detials but they may havesame d10 along with same rasi chart ofcourse.> > pl.

take it very positively and answer to me for the benefit ofevery body> > >

Regards,> Utpal> > Panditji wrote:> Namaste Pradeepji ( You deserve the Ji,

trust me)> > What if the twins have same navansha or saptamsha ? > > Ofcourse I

forgot that the sjc parampara has many versions of> divisional charts. 3

varieties of navanshas so if the data does not> fit, try the different flavor

of navansha or saptamsha. Are there are> a few versions of rashi charts as well

?> > ...> > On 4/22/05, vijayadas_pradeep wrote:> > > > Dear Panditji> > > >

Medical science says average time gap between twins are 15-17 > > minutes.Thus

twins can be born between 10 minutes as well as 30 >

> minutes.> > > > Thus as you have said - there can be possibility that twins

can have > > same hora,same drekkana,same saptamsha and same dashamsha.> > > >

Can anyone help me in analysing saptamsha bhavas and dashamsha > > bhavas

here.> > > > Thanks> > Pradeep> > > > vedic astrology,

Panditji > > wrote:> > > Namaste,> > > > > > Sharmaji of this list had given a

chart of twins a couple of months> > > back. Both have the same navamsha. If

twins case can be explained > > with> > > divisional charts, are you suggesting

that both will get married at> > > the same time ? Will their spouses nature

will be identical ?> > > > > > ...> > > > > > On 4/22/05, Utpal Pathak

wrote:> > > > All respected Luminiaries of Jtotisha & Philosophy,> > > > > > > >

I would like to add my 2 cent...> > > > > > > > following argument Appealed me

and convinced me about > > the 'Importance' of> > > > Varga chart> > > > > > >

> 1) Each House in Rashi chart stands for so many matters. how to> > > >

diifferntiate? (pl. i know karka technology)> > > > > > > > 2) If rishi says

that d9 is chart for dharma/spouse, d10 for > > respect and> > > > work in ,

d12 for parents and so on & so forth then it > > automatically brings> > > >

the important of Vargas as 'Charts' and not merely tool to see > > Vimshopak> >

> > bal, Vaiseshikamsha etc..> > > > > > > > 3)

Major difference in lives of Twins can be most fittingly > > justied only by> >

> > Difference in Varga charts.> > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > > utpal

pathak> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Partha Sarathy wrote:> >

> > Dear Sourav> > > > > > > > That was a brilliant mail.> > > > I am

especially interested in the Trimsamsa sloka. Could you > > kindly for the> > >

> benefit of the readers, explain each individual term and give a > > detailed>

> > > interpretation.> > > > best wishes> > > > partha> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > On 4/22/05, Sourav Chowdhury

wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||> > > > > || Om

Gurave Namah ||> > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep-ji,> > > > > Namaskar. As per

your request, I have reread > > the > > > > > postions of the BPHS which is

relevent to your and my > > arguments once> > > > > more so that I am confident

in giving this reply. I wish not to> > > > > write any more in this subject as

it is useless to argue > > against ill> > > > > formed hypotheses, some of

which is in your reply. > > > > > > > > > > You wrote:> > > > > > > > > > "You

should also carefully read all my mails before > > commenting.Every> > > > >

varga defined by

sage parashara is important - i am only > > against> > > > > varga ''charts''.">

> > > > > > > > > My argument: I will only use BPHS in my argument. > > > > > >

> > > > 1. Maharshi Parasara (and the rishis of his era and later eras)> > > >

> wrote in clear, unequivocal but also pithy form so save space > > but to> > >

> > deliver the message clearly. So each word is very relevant and> > > > >

important.Now let us see the arrangement of chapters in the > > BPHS.> > > > >

> > > > > C.1 - The Creation> > > > > C.2 - Great Incarnations of the Lord> > >

> > C.3 - Planetary Characters and Description> > > > > C.4 - Zodiacal Signs> >

> > > C.5 - Finding Planetary Positions > > > >

> C.6 - Special Ascendants> > > > > C.7 - The Sixteen Divisions of a Sign> > > >

> C.8 - Divisional Consideration> > > > > C.9 - Aspects of the Signs> > > > >

C.10- Surroundings at the Time of Birth> > > > > C.11- Evils at Birth> > > > >

C.12- Antidotes for Evil > > > > > C.13- Judgement of Houses> > > > > C.14-

Effects of the 1st House> > > > > C.15- Effects of the 2nd House> > > > >

(etc.)> > > > > > > > > > From the scheme of things, it is very clear that

Vargas are of > > prime> > > > > importance. Explanations are given for Rasi

Chakra Analysis > > **only > > > > > after** defining in details all the

sixteen divisions of a > > sign, the> > > > > formulation of these

vargas and the presiding deities. This is> > > > > significant.> > > > > > > > >

> You again said:> > > > > > > > > > "If you read those chapters with caution

and fresh mind all > > your > > > > > doubts will be cleared. How to analyse

Vargas has been clearly> > > > > explained.Read vimshopaka strength in BPHS.">

> > > > > > > > > Are you implying the Parasara went into all the trouble of >

> details> > > > > of vargas and presiding deities just to give us a clue for >

> > > > Vimshopaka Bala of planets ?? This is a completely mistaken > >

argument.> > > > > I will tell you why.> > > > > > > > > > BPHS C.7.2-3> > > >

> > > > > > Kshetram hora cha

dreskaanasturyamsah saptamamsaka |> > > > > Navamso dasaamamsascha suryamsah

shodasamsaka || > > > > > Vimsamso vedavamso bhamsatrimsamsakastatah |> > > > >

khavedamshokhsabedamsah sasthiamsascha tatah param ||> > > > > > > > > > "These

vargas are: Griha (rasi or sign), Hora, Drekkana,> > > > > Chaturthamsa,

Saptamamsa, Navamamsa, Dasamamsa, Dwadasamamsa, > > > > > Shodasamamsa,

Vimsamsa, Chaturvimsamsa, Saptavimsamsa, > > Trimsamsa,> > > > > Khavedamsa,

Akshavedamsa and Sasthiamsa."> > > > > > > > > > Rasi (see the words Kshetram

hora cha ..) is clearly clubbed> > > > > together with other vargas. Hence if

we treat rasi's as bhavas > > and > > > > > perform bhava analysis, why

shouldn't we do the same with other> > > >

> vargas which are only higher divisions of the zodiac just as > > rasi> > > > >

also is ?!? Thus Rasi Chart is definitely a divisional chart > > (called> > > >

> D-1) and the way it is going to be analysed (from C.13 > > onwards) will> > >

> > show us the way other varga charts should be analysed.> > > > > > > > > > I

will give you one more indication of the above conclusion:> > > > > > > > > >

BPHS C.8.16 (last line)> > > > > > > > > > Trimsamsake vichintyayevamatrapi

grihabat smritam || > > > > > > > > > > Here the Sage gives clear instruction

that Chaturthamsa, > > Navamamsa,> > > > > Trimsamsa etc. vargas chakras will

be studies **like the 12 > > houses**> > > > > in the birth chart

(rasi chakra).> > > > > > > > > > Thus it is doubtless that Maharshi indicated

that all 16 > > vargas are > > > > > to be analysed as individual "charts" just

like the most > > popular of> > > > > them i.e. the rasi varga chart. I hope

this expunges all doubt.> > > > > > > > > > 2. Your next argument is trying to

show that varga charts > > cannot> > > > > exist because it becomes difficult

to apply bhava > > significances in> > > > > varga charts.> > > > > > > > > >

You stated:> > > > > > > > > > "In bhava analysis - Parashara advises 9th house

for father > > and 4th> > > > > for mother - This is for rashi chakra not for

vargas. Can you > > pls > > > > > tell me

what is 4th and 9th houses in Hora?Hora is a division > > not a> > > > > chart-

so are other vargas.After seeing 2nd house matters,one > > has to> > > > > see

the planets Hora placement.BPHS explains the strength of > > planets> > > > >

in Hora." > > > > > > > > > > BPHS C.8.37-38> > > > > > > > > > Tanurdhanam cha

sahaje bandhuputrarayastatha |> > > > > Yuvatirandhradharmashakarmalabhabyayah

kramat ||> > > > > Sanshepenaitaduditamanyad budhyayanusaaratah |> > > > >

Kinchivishesam vakshyami yatha brahmamukhaachhrutam || > > > > > > > > > > "

Tanu, Dhana, Sahaja, Bandhu, Putra, Ari, Yuvati, Randhra, > > Dharma,> > > > >

Karma, Laabha and Vyaya are in order the names of the 12 > >

houses.> > > > > Other things than these should be understood according to > >

one's own> > > > > intelligence. Now I will try to tell you some new things

which > > I> > > > > heard from the speech of Lord Brahma"> > > > > > > > > >

Carefully read this part ** Other things than these should be> > > > >

understood according to one's own intelligence ** Thus in each > > > > >

divisional chart each house can potentially mean different > > things> > > > >

depending on the particular varga chart in question !!> > > > > > > > > > This

responds to your second argument. Refer to Message # > > 55218 by> > > > > Guru

Narasimha-ji for further understanding what house can > > mean what > > > > > in

a particular Varga.

Parasari Hora Chart has two houses only.> > > > > Infact this is an exceptional

chart in that sense and thus you> > > > > cannot really ask for the

significance for the 4H or 9H as > > they dont> > > > > exist in this

particular chart!! In case of other kinds of > > Hora > > > > > charts like

Kashinatha Hora, 4H can mean sukha regarding > > wealth and> > > > > 9H can

mean fortune regarding wealth, the dharma followed in > > earning> > > > >

wealth or the guidence (or mis-guidence) received in earning > > wealth> > > >

> of things of sustenance etc. > > > > > > > > > > As per Parasara, you should

intelligently ask and assign the> > > > > significance of a particular house in

a Varga Chakra. Note that> > > > > Lagna in that Chakra

represents the native in the particular > > aspect> > > > > of life this Varga

Chakra is Drawn. Ex. D-10 is a career Varga > > > > > chakra and La in D-10

shows the native himself in the field of> > > > > career. 9H here will show the

nature of guidence and > > relationship> > > > > with the guide (read 'boss' or

'authority') in the career > > field.> > > > > I ask you to exercise your

intelligence and derive the > > significance > > > > > of each divisional

chart. It will help you immensely and show > > you> > > > > how deep the above

quoted statement of Maharsi truely is !!> > > > > > > > > > 3. I will end my

prolonged monologue by answering your last > > argument.> > > > > > > > > > You

said: > > > >

> > > > > > "So is [sic, 'in'] shastyamsha - the bhava whose lord in > >

benefic> > > > > shstyamsha willflourish - where is this bhava found? In Rashi

> > chakra> > > > > or shastyamsha? Ask this last question and you will not

have > > anymore > > > > > doubts."> > > > > > > > > > The referred statement

in BPHS is C.8.6 If you see the context > > of> > > > > what Maharshi was

talking about in that portion you will see > > that he> > > > > was speaking

about what various vargas signify. In the end he > > says > > > > > this

statement. Your translation of the statement is > > misleading. I> > > > > will

take what Sri G. C. Sharma has given "There is no doubt > > in the> > > > >

destruction of the

house whose lord is in a malefic > > Sashtiamsa" This > > > > > clearly means

that no matter what divisional chart you > > consider, if> > > > > any house

lord in any such chart is in a bad Sashtiamsa (read > > ruled> > > > > by a

malefic deity), that house in that varga chart is > > definitely> > > > > going

to suffer. He didnt say if it is Rasi chart, thereby > > > > > indicating any

divisional chart.> > > > > > > > > > Hope this discussion helps. It doesn't

matter if I am new to > > this> > > > > discussion. I need not read all your

previous e-mails. You > > seem to> > > > > be too attached to your own line of

thinking and shutting away > > > > > others. It's best to challenge your own

self in understanding > >

rather> > > > > than jump up and challange other's understandings especially of>

> > > > the learned and experienced like Guru Narasimha-ji.> > > > > > > > > >

Regards,> > > > > > > > > > Sourav > > > > >> > > > > >

===================================================================> > > > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep"> > > > >

wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear shri Saurav> > > > > >> > > > > > You can

address me without a ji.> > > > > >> > > > > > I think you are new to this

series of discussion on > > vargas.It has> > > > > been> >

> > > > going on since long.More than a year.Shri Narasimha knows > > what i am>

> > > > > saying.Also this thread started when shri Narasimha had > > analysed>

> > > > new> > > > > > popes chart without giving importance to Rashi chart.> >

> > > >> > > > > > You should also carefully read all my mails before > >

commenting.Every> > > > > > varga defined by sage parashara is important - i am

only > > against> > > > > varga> > > > > > ''charts''.If you read those chapters

with caution and fresh > > mind -> > > > > > all your doubts will be cleared.> >

> > > > How to analyse Vargas has been clearly explained.Read > > vimshopaka> >

> > > > strength in BPHS.> > > >

> >> > > > > > In bhava analysis - Parashara advises 9th house for father > >

and 4th> > > > > for> > > > > > mother - This is for rashi chakra not for

vargas. Can you > > pls tell> > > > > me > > > > > > what is 4th and 9th houses

in Hora?Hora is a division not a > > chart-> > > > > so> > > > > > are other

vargas.After seeing 2nd house matters,one has to > > see the> > > > > > planets

Hora placement.BPHS explains the strength of planets > > in > > > > > Hora.> > >

> > >> > > > > > So is shastyamsha - the bhava whose lord in benefic > >

shstyamsha will> > > > > > flourish - where is this bhava found? In Rashi

chakra or> > > > > shastyamsha?>

> > > > > Ask this last question and you will not have anymore doubts. > > > > >

>> > > > > > Thanks> > > > > > Pradeep> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > --- In

vedic astrology, "Sourav Chowdhury"> > > > > > wrote: > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear

Pradeep-ji,> > > > > > > Namaskar. Your arguments are ill founded and you> > >

> > > > haven't carefully read Guru Narasimha-ji's comments. > > > > > > >> > >

> > > > 1. He never undermined the need to analyse rasi chart. > > Infact he> >

> > > > > always say in

this mp3 lessons that if Rasi chart doesn't > > allow> > > > > an> > > > > > >

event, it will not happen even if indications are there in > > the > > > > > >

> higher divisional chart. If you have read BPHS, Maharshi > > Parasara> > > >

> > > has first described 16 divisions of signs (i.e. effectively> > > > >

defining> > > > > > > the varga charts) and then went on into bhava analysis. >

> Why so > > > > > much> > > > > > > importance to varga charts by the Sage

himself ?!?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 2. Rasi chart's houses have so many

significances, the > > same 4H> > > > > shows> > > > > > > motherly

relationship, house, heart, vehicles happiness > >

and so > > > > > on.> > > > > > > If you try to get all predictions done by rasi

chart and > > then go> > > > > > > into vargas for a secondary check, you might

be mislead. > > The> > > > > ideal> > > > > > > is to mix and match both of

them.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. There is the beautiful example of twins who

are born > > very> > > > > close> > > > > > > in time to each other and have

completely different > > capabilities> > > > > and> > > > > > > personalities.

You can read the details that Guru > > Narasimha-ji > > > > > has> > > > > > >

posted in his website www.vedicastrologer.com . Kindly > > read it> > > >

> > > before making further comments.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I like to see

many schools of thought. It is beneficial to > > > > > learning.> > > > > > >

But when arguments are made to a Guru's remark for the > > same of> > > > > > >

argument, I think it doesn't stand good for the purpose of> > > > > learning.> >

> > > > > I hope I will be taken based on what I wrote and meant and > > not > >

> > > > > merely as blind defender of faith in my Guru.> > > > > > >> > > > > >

> Regards,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Sourav> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >

=====================================================================> > > > > >

> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > vedic astrology,

"vijayadas_pradeep"> > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dear

Narasimha ji> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > You are very right in pointing the

imperfections.Now you > > have> > > > > said> > > > > > > > Rashi chakra is

very simple - Atleast not for me.I have > > not> > > > > even > > > > > > > >

understood 10 % of the basics on how to analyse rashi > > chakra> > > > > > > >

properly.It will take many years to master.Also on one > >

hand> > > > > you> > > > > > > say> > > > > > > > combination of Rashi chakra

with Vargas and on the other > > hand - > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no

Main chart.If rashi chakra is not the main > > why do> > > > > you> > > > > > >

> want to use them in combination with Vargas?.> > > > > > > > Also if Rashi

chakra is not the main why do you give so > > many > > > > > yogas> > > > > > >

> in your software based on Rashi chakra - pertaining to > > all> > > > > > > >

aspects.If Rashi chakra is just for physique - how will > > we see> > > > >

the> > > > > > > > qualities of Mahapurusha from the Rashi chakra? How will

> > we > > > > > see> > > > > > > > Saraswati yoga - the yoga for learning.If 10

th house > > and 10th> > > > > > > lord> > > > > > > > in Rashi chakra is

physical ,what is 10th ''house'' and > > lord> > > > > in> > > > > > > >

dashamsha. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks> > > > > > > >

Pradeep> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > vedic astrology,

"Narasimha > > P.V.R. Rao"> > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > Namaste

friends,> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I will

quickly try to respond to multiple mails on > > multiple> > > > > > > lists. > >

> > > > > > These days I've been really busy and cannot give a more> > > > >

detailed> > > > > > > > reply. I may not actually be able to give any further >

> replies> > > > > on> > > > > > > > this thread.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Can you explain why you have given TZ 2 for Marktl,> > > > > > > Germany?>

> > > > > > > At 12 degrees> > > > > > > > > > East from Greenwich it is in TZ

1.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gordon, I may be wrong. If the timezone

should be 1:00,> > > > > please>

> > > > > > > change the birthtime to 6:33:40 am to 5:33:40 am.> > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > Bottomline is: I did not know the time and rectified > >

lagna > > > > > in> > > > > > > rasi> > > > > > > > and various divisions by

retro-fitting.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > You wrote:> > > > > > > > >

> Interestingly, it is now Mars antardasa in Venus > > mahadasa! > > > > > > >

> > > Please check, it is Sat Mahadasa and Moon Antardasa.> > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > > > > Praveen, you are right. There is a bug in my software > > in the>

> > > > > > > second cycle of

Shashtihayani dasa. Thanks for pointing > > this > > > > > out.> > > > > > > >

I'll fix this.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Technically, BTW, whether we

can use Shashtihayani dasa> > > > > after> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > age

of 60 has passed is debatable. The same holds for > > other > > > > > dasas.> >

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > It has been observed that the Rashi chakra was

not > > given> > > > > due> > > > > > > > respect> > > > > > > > > > during

your analysis.Results were decided on the > > basis of > > > > > > > varga -> >

> > > > >

> > > which is derived from Rashi chakra.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >

As thousands of students are observing this > > analysis - Pls> > > > > > >

make> > > > > > > > it> > > > > > > > > > clear is it possible to deduce

results from varga of > > a> > > > > > > > planet/lagna> > > > > > > > > >

alone.When Panditji had questioned a similar > > analysis on> > > > > > > >

saptamsha - > > > > > > > > > > One could find Ms.Sarbani Sarkar rushing in

and> > > > > correcting -> > > > > > > > > > Significance of Rashi chakra.I

would be pleased to > > know if> > > > > you> > >

> > > > > hold a> > > > > > > > > > different position. > > > > > > > > >> > > >

> > > > > Pradeep, because you asked, I will clarify MY position.> > > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > > For perfection, multiple divisional charts should be > >

judged> > > > > > > > together. We are often doing imperfect astrology for the

> > sake > > > > > of> > > > > > > > simplicity and look at only one chart. The

best answer > > is not> > > > > any> > > > > > > > single chart, but a

combination of charts.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > But, if I have to

choose a single chart, I'll choose > > the > >

> > > > > > applicable varga (e.g. D-10 for career, D-24 for > > education> > >

> > etc)> > > > > > > > rather than the rasi chart. Though imperfect, it works

> > way> > > > > better> > > > > > > > for me than rasi chart alone.> > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > > > While combining rasi with divisions leads to better > >

results,> > > > > it> > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > still away from perfection.

Perfection can come only when> > > > > > > > shashtyamsa (D-60) is understood

correctly and used. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > When Parasara defined

the matters seen in various > > divisions> > > >

> > > (e.g.> > > > > > > > physical matters in rasi, financial matters in D-2,>

> > > > professional> > > > > > > > matters in D-10), he said that "everything"

is seen in D-> > 60. > > > > > Also> > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > vimsopaka

bala computation of dasa varga, D-60 gets a > > higher> > > > > > > > weightage

than rasi and navamsa combined!> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I am fully

convinced that the Jyotish is an imperfect > > > > > subject> > > > > > > and>

> > > > > > > just an art as long as one ignores D-60, which was given > > so>

> > > > much> > > > > > > > importance by

Parasara. Jyotish can be established as a> > > > > science> > > > > > > only> >

> > > > > > when we master D-60.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Kalyan

verma states - one who is not considering the> > > > > vargas> > > > > > > >

cannot> > > > > > > > > > make good predictions.What does this mean? Doesn't >

> it mean> > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > there> > > > > > > > > > is

someother place - (other than vargas) - to read > > the> > > > > > > results?>

> > > > > > > Which> > > > > > > > > > is this other MAIN place? Is it not the

Rashi > > chakra? > >

> > > Division> > > > > > > by> > > > > > > > > > meaning should have a main to

get divided.So which > > is this> > > > > > > main?> > > > > > > > If we> > > >

> > > > > > consider Rashi chakra as the first division - then > > where > > > >

> is> > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > main?> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >

Rasi is a divisional chart too. It is one of the vargas> > > > > > > according>

> > > > > > > to Parasara.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing

called main and secondary. If you ask > > me to> > > > > > >

pick> > > > > > > > the most important divisional chart, I'll pick D-60. As I> >

> > > > > mentioned> > > > > > > > above, Parasara said everything can be seen

in D-60 and > > gave > > > > > it> > > > > > > more> > > > > > > > weightage

than rasi and navamsa combined, when defining > > dasa> > > > > varga> > > > >

> > > vimsopaka bala.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,> > > >

> > > > > > Correct ! If we apply common sense, we can see > > Vargas > > > > >

repeating> > > > > > > > > > with lagna as it is a few hours before. Only the

Moon> > > > > changes> > >

> > > > its> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Vargas do not exactly repeat.

Different divisions have > > > > > different> > > > > > > > patterns. The

navamsa, dasamsa, vimsamsa, chaturvimsamsa > > and> > > > > > > > shashtyamsa

combination I identified in Aries rasi lagna > > does> > > > > not> > > > > > >

> repeat in Pisces rasi or Taurus rasi. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >

position fast. Then, touchstone of any predictive> > > > > principle is> > > >

> > > > advance> > > > > > > > > > predictions, which they always elude.

Veteran > > astrologers > > > > > of> > > > > >

> > Jyotish> > > > > > > > > > Group like Shri K.N.Rao and Satya Prakash ji too

> > advised> > > > > them,> > > > > > > > but> > > > > > > > > > of no avail. A

whole generation is being misguided. > > Most > > > > > > > > unfortunate !> > >

> > > > > > > But then, as Shri K.N.Rao says, it is the will of > > the God.> >

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It is quite presumptuous of some to believe that

"a > > whole > > > > > > > > generation is being misguided". Whether a

generation is > > being> > > > > > > > misguided or guided in the correct

direction to fully > > discover> > > > > the> > > >

> > > > teachings of maharshis and establish astrology as a > > science is > > >

> > > > > something that the coming generations will judge. > > Neither I> > > >

> nor> > > > > > > you> > > > > > > > are in a position to pre-judge it.> > > >

> > > > >> > > > > > > > > Let me do my work and you do your work. There is no

> > need to > > > > > talk> > > > > > > > about misguided generations.> > > > >

> > > >> > > > > > > > > > [Visti] Parasara states that if eighth lord is well >

> placed> > > > > or> > > > > > > > even exalted,> > > > > > > > > > then

longevity will be long - This is

also applied > > in the > > > > > > > method> > > > > > > > of three> > > > > >

> > > > pairs. You may argue that the eighth lord when > > strong will> > > > >

> > cause> > > > > > > > problems,> > > > > > > > > > but Harihara states in

Prasna Marga, that when the > > planets > > > > > are> > > > > > > > strong

they> > > > > > > > > > will give their auspicious results - he states that > >

this> > > > > > > applies> > > > > > > > to both> > > > > > > > > > natal and

prasna charts. Further being Vara lord and > > in > > > > > the> > > > > > > >

fifth

house, it> > > > > > > > > > means the digestive fire is excellent and excellent

> > health> > > > > is> > > > > > > > promised. This> > > > > > > > > > is not

the problem.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visti, I do not look at only

the placement of vaaresha > > but> > > > > also> > > > > > > > the ownership of

the vaaresha. If the weekday lord in a> > > > > muhurta> > > > > > > > happens

to be randhresha, I do not consider it > > auspicious. > > > > > This is> > > >

> > > > just my view and not explicitly granted by classics. If > > you> > > > >

have a> > > > > > > > different

view, I can respect it.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > [Visti] What is your

current view on the use of the > > > > > arudha> > > > > > > > lagna in the> > >

> > > > > > > calculation of vaisheshikamsa?> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >

Hmm, I don't have any view. I spent so much time > > mulling> > > > > over> > >

> > > > > Parasara's vaiseshikamsa clause "swaaroodhaat kendra > > > > >

naathaanaam> > > > > > > > vargaah graahyaah sudheemataa", but could not come

to a> > > > > conclusion.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > When I wrote that

Sun is in Brahmalokamsa in Pope > >

Benedict> > > > > XVI's > > > > > > > > chart, I did not use the "swaaroodhaat"

criterion. I > > used only> > > > > the> > > > > > > > standard definition and

ignoring the additional clause.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > When Lord

Dakshinamurthy blesses me, I will understand > > this > > > > > > > clause> > >

> > > > > correctly. When I do, I will share my understanding with > > all.> > >

> > For> > > > > > > > now, I have no view.> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >

[Visti] In concur with your choice for the popes > > chart - > > > > > good> >

> > > > > > rectification.>

> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Thank you very much Visti. I am glad a Jyotish

scholar > > of> > > > > your> > > > > > > > knowledge and abilities has

concurred with my > > rectification. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > May

Jupiter's light shine on us,> > > > > > > > > Narasimha> > > > > > > > >> > >

>> > ----------------------------> > > > >

---> > > > > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): > > > > >

http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > > > > > > > Free Jyotish software

(Windows):> > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > > > >

> > SJC website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > > > > > > >> > > >> >

----------------------------> > > > > ---> > >

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Jagannathan .

April 23, 2005

Namaste,

I have written another mail on this topic an hour back, please read

that one too. Yes if there was a repeatable method to decipher these

things we will all be so happy. Unfortunately the rishis did not give

a single example chart for us to understand these principles.

We are making a mistake of using after the fact analysis and

explanations to advance the argument that divisions( or divisional

charts for some) explain these mystries such as twins. You mention

about mark waugh and steve waugh. One can explain after the fact

anything. So bringing twins to advance this argument when one does not

have high predictive success rate on natives who are not twins is like

trying to plan a trip to the moon when one has not even flown across a

river yet.

Lets look at political predictions. Now when the two candidates are

known, even my teenager has a 50-50 chance of predicting a winner. Now

if someone predicts bush will win or kerry will lose thats really not

an impressive prediction. Now if someone had predicted that Clinton

would win the election when he announced his candidacy in Nov 1991,

when he had just begun the run for democratic nomination and bush sr.

was at the peak of his approval ratings, I would call that a

prediction. When there are only two left in the race, a flip of coin

will have the same chance of success.

I do not think that jyotish has evolved to a point where it can have

such a predictive accuracy. Some are basically creating so many

parameters( Arudh, dashas in divisions, rashi dasha, nakshatra

dasha,tithi pravesh,argala) the list is endless that if we do not find

an event in a chart that would be a surprise. Thats why a few on this

list have raised these questions.

....

On 4/23/05, kapisthalam jagannathan <jagannathankr wrote:

> Dear Sir,

> i am happy to read your kind and loving mail.you are all men of knowledge

> and skills.You are real seekers.I have no doubt.I pray to God for your

> success.

> Just like anyother person,I am attracted by the great works of Rishis and

> particularly the Nadi Grandhas which seem to be mysterious .Alas, we lost

> our rich heritage and what we have now left with us ,seems to be only bones

> and ashes of the past.

> Regards,

> jagannathan.

>

> vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear shri Utpal

>

> As Jagannathan ji has mentioned there are many things which cannot be

> explained without experience and sadhana.For this we have to study and

> persevere for years.There are no short cuts.If we cannot understand -

> it does not mean we can use bhavas everywhere.

>

> If the twins are taken out in emergency by ceasarian section then it

> is even possible to have same shastiamsha.

>

> I hope people will not bring in bhavas for nadiamshas.

> Navamsha has significance due to concurrence with nakshathra

> padas.Vedic astrology is rooted in nakshathras.It is also a division.

>

> Dear Jagannathan ji

>

> Your posts and writings are very balanced.I respect your open view.I

> never said my view is correct.I am just asking questions.

> Even the lord is learning.Avataras of bhagavan too were subjected to

> karma and results.It is this continuous learning that keeps the

> universe alive.

>

> Respect

> Pradeep

>

> vedic astrology, kapisthalam jagannathan

> wrote:

> > Dear Sir,

> > I have been reading your kind mails.

> > Suppose two or more than two are born at almost the same time ,date

> ,place etc ,may be to different parents, how are we account for

> differences amongst them astrologically.let alone the question of

> twins.?I wish some astrologer explains.

> > Regards,

> > jagannathan.

> >

> > Utpal Pathak wrote:

> > Dear Pandit ji & Pradeep ji (You both deserve to be JI for Me)

> >

> > Are we not casting 'Navmansha Chart' and give importance (pl. read

> Much) to it. if D9 Chart, being a Varga chart can be analysed with so

> much intrest in judging any chart then the same logic should also

> apply to other Varga Charts.

> >

> > You asked following things

> > > > Both have the same navamsha. If twins case can be explained

> > > with

> > > > divisional charts, are you suggesting that both will get married at

> > > > the same time ? Will their spouses nature will be identical ?

> >

> > I am really surprised about your question at the same time I am very

> very curious to know the answer for you. Without not taking any help

> from any other Vargas and just by Looking the same Navmansha & Rashi,

> how you convincingly suggest to find out the marriage timing and

> nature of Spouses etc..

> >

> > At least the other Vargas provide some Valuable insight in to the

> differences in the different areas of lives of twins. if not d9 then

> d10 or D12 or D16 or D24 or D30 OR Shatyamsa.

> >

> > For Example: - Mark Waugh & Steve Waugh had Career in Similar field

> (Cricket) but their Achievements, Span of Career, Exploits & Talents

> were not Identical. i don't have their birth detials but they may have

> same d10 along with same rasi chart ofcourse.

> >

> > pl. take it very positively and answer to me for the benefit of

> every body

> >

> > Regards,

> > Utpal

> >

> > Panditji wrote:

> > Namaste Pradeepji ( You deserve the Ji, trust me)

> >

> > What if the twins have same navansha or saptamsha ?

> >

> > Ofcourse I forgot that the sjc parampara has many versions of

> > divisional charts. 3 varieties of navanshas so if the data does not

> > fit, try the different flavor of navansha or saptamsha. Are there are

> > a few versions of rashi charts as well ?

> >

> > ...

> >

> > On 4/22/05, vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Panditji

> > >

> > > Medical science says average time gap between twins are 15-17

> > > minutes.Thus twins can be born between 10 minutes as well as 30

> > > minutes.

> > >

> > > Thus as you have said - there can be possibility that twins can have

> > > same hora,same drekkana,same saptamsha and same dashamsha.

> > >

> > > Can anyone help me in analysing saptamsha bhavas and dashamsha

> > > bhavas here.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, Panditji

> > > wrote:

> > > > Namaste,

> > > >

> > > > Sharmaji of this list had given a chart of twins a couple of months

> > > > back. Both have the same navamsha. If twins case can be explained

> > > with

> > > > divisional charts, are you suggesting that both will get married at

> > > > the same time ? Will their spouses nature will be identical ?

> > > >

> > > > ...

> > > >

> > > > On 4/22/05, Utpal Pathak wrote:

> > > > > All respected Luminiaries of Jtotisha & Philosophy,

> > > > >

> > > > > I would like to add my 2 cent...

> > > > >

> > > > > following argument Appealed me and convinced me about

> > > the 'Importance' of

> > > > > Varga chart

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) Each House in Rashi chart stands for so many matters. how to

> > > > > diifferntiate? (pl. i know karka technology)

> > > > >

> > > > > 2) If rishi says that d9 is chart for dharma/spouse, d10 for

> > > respect and

> > > > > work in , d12 for parents and so on & so forth then it

> > > automatically brings

> > > > > the important of Vargas as 'Charts' and not merely tool to see

> > > Vimshopak

> > > > > bal, Vaiseshikamsha etc..

> > > > >

> > > > > 3) Major difference in lives of Twins can be most fittingly

> > > justied only by

> > > > > Difference in Varga charts.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > utpal pathak

> > > > >

> > > > > Partha Sarathy wrote:

> > > > > Dear Sourav

> > > > >

> > > > > That was a brilliant mail.

> > > > > I am especially interested in the Trimsamsa sloka. Could you

> > > kindly for the

> > > > > benefit of the readers, explain each individual term and give a

> > > detailed

> > > > > interpretation.

> > > > > best wishes

> > > > > partha

> > > > >

> > > > > On 4/22/05, Sourav Chowdhury wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||

> > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Pradeep-ji,

> > > > > > Namaskar. As per your request, I have reread

> > > the

> > > > > > postions of the BPHS which is relevent to your and my

> > > arguments once

> > > > > > more so that I am confident in giving this reply. I wish not to

> > > > > > write any more in this subject as it is useless to argue

> > > against ill

> > > > > > formed hypotheses, some of which is in your reply.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "You should also carefully read all my mails before

> > > commenting.Every

> > > > > > varga defined by sage parashara is important - i am only

> > > against

> > > > > > varga ''charts''."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My argument: I will only use BPHS in my argument.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. Maharshi Parasara (and the rishis of his era and later eras)

> > > > > > wrote in clear, unequivocal but also pithy form so save space

> > > but to

> > > > > > deliver the message clearly. So each word is very relevant and

> > > > > > important.Now let us see the arrangement of chapters in the

> > > BPHS.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > C.1 - The Creation

> > > > > > C.2 - Great Incarnations of the Lord

> > > > > > C.3 - Planetary Characters and Description

> > > > > > C.4 - Zodiacal Signs

> > > > > > C.5 - Finding Planetary Positions

> > > > > > C.6 - Special Ascendants

> > > > > > C.7 - The Sixteen Divisions of a Sign

> > > > > > C.8 - Divisional Consideration

> > > > > > C.9 - Aspects of the Signs

> > > > > > C.10- Surroundings at the Time of Birth

> > > > > > C.11- Evils at Birth

> > > > > > C.12- Antidotes for Evil

> > > > > > C.13- Judgement of Houses

> > > > > > C.14- Effects of the 1st House

> > > > > > C.15- Effects of the 2nd House

> > > > > > (etc.)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > From the scheme of things, it is very clear that Vargas are of

> > > prime

> > > > > > importance. Explanations are given for Rasi Chakra Analysis

> > > **only

> > > > > > after** defining in details all the sixteen divisions of a

> > > sign, the

> > > > > > formulation of these vargas and the presiding deities. This is

> > > > > > significant.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You again said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "If you read those chapters with caution and fresh mind all

> > > your

> > > > > > doubts will be cleared. How to analyse Vargas has been clearly

> > > > > > explained.Read vimshopaka strength in BPHS."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Are you implying the Parasara went into all the trouble of

> > > details

> > > > > > of vargas and presiding deities just to give us a clue for

> > > > > > Vimshopaka Bala of planets ?? This is a completely mistaken

> > > argument.

> > > > > > I will tell you why.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > BPHS C.7.2-3

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Kshetram hora cha dreskaanasturyamsah saptamamsaka |

> > > > > > Navamso dasaamamsascha suryamsah shodasamsaka ||

> > > > > > Vimsamso vedavamso bhamsatrimsamsakastatah |

> > > > > > khavedamshokhsabedamsah sasthiamsascha tatah param ||

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "These vargas are: Griha (rasi or sign), Hora, Drekkana,

> > > > > > Chaturthamsa, Saptamamsa, Navamamsa, Dasamamsa, Dwadasamamsa,

> > > > > > Shodasamamsa, Vimsamsa, Chaturvimsamsa, Saptavimsamsa,

> > > Trimsamsa,

> > > > > > Khavedamsa, Akshavedamsa and Sasthiamsa."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rasi (see the words Kshetram hora cha ..) is clearly clubbed

> > > > > > together with other vargas. Hence if we treat rasi's as bhavas

> > > and

> > > > > > perform bhava analysis, why shouldn't we do the same with other

> > > > > > vargas which are only higher divisions of the zodiac just as

> > > rasi

> > > > > > also is ?!? Thus Rasi Chart is definitely a divisional chart

> > > (called

> > > > > > D-1) and the way it is going to be analysed (from C.13

> > > onwards) will

> > > > > > show us the way other varga charts should be analysed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I will give you one more indication of the above conclusion:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > BPHS C.8.16 (last line)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Trimsamsake vichintyayevamatrapi grihabat smritam ||

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Here the Sage gives clear instruction that Chaturthamsa,

> > > Navamamsa,

> > > > > > Trimsamsa etc. vargas chakras will be studies **like the 12

> > > houses**

> > > > > > in the birth chart (rasi chakra).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus it is doubtless that Maharshi indicated that all 16

> > > vargas are

> > > > > > to be analysed as individual "charts" just like the most

> > > popular of

> > > > > > them i.e. the rasi varga chart. I hope this expunges all doubt.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2. Your next argument is trying to show that varga charts

> > > cannot

> > > > > > exist because it becomes difficult to apply bhava

> > > significances in

> > > > > > varga charts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You stated:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "In bhava analysis - Parashara advises 9th house for father

> > > and 4th

> > > > > > for mother - This is for rashi chakra not for vargas. Can you

> > > pls

> > > > > > tell me what is 4th and 9th houses in Hora?Hora is a division

> > > not a

> > > > > > chart- so are other vargas.After seeing 2nd house matters,one

> > > has to

> > > > > > see the planets Hora placement.BPHS explains the strength of

> > > planets

> > > > > > in Hora."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > BPHS C.8.37-38

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Tanurdhanam cha sahaje bandhuputrarayastatha |

> > > > > > Yuvatirandhradharmashakarmalabhabyayah kramat ||

> > > > > > Sanshepenaitaduditamanyad budhyayanusaaratah |

> > > > > > Kinchivishesam vakshyami yatha brahmamukhaachhrutam ||

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Tanu, Dhana, Sahaja, Bandhu, Putra, Ari, Yuvati, Randhra,

> > > Dharma,

> > > > > > Karma, Laabha and Vyaya are in order the names of the 12

> > > houses.

> > > > > > Other things than these should be understood according to

> > > one's own

> > > > > > intelligence. Now I will try to tell you some new things which

> > > I

> > > > > > heard from the speech of Lord Brahma"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Carefully read this part ** Other things than these should be

> > > > > > understood according to one's own intelligence ** Thus in each

> > > > > > divisional chart each house can potentially mean different

> > > things

> > > > > > depending on the particular varga chart in question !!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This responds to your second argument. Refer to Message #

> > > 55218 by

> > > > > > Guru Narasimha-ji for further understanding what house can

> > > mean what

> > > > > > in a particular Varga. Parasari Hora Chart has two houses only.

> > > > > > Infact this is an exceptional chart in that sense and thus you

> > > > > > cannot really ask for the significance for the 4H or 9H as

> > > they dont

> > > > > > exist in this particular chart!! In case of other kinds of

> > > Hora

> > > > > > charts like Kashinatha Hora, 4H can mean sukha regarding

> > > wealth and

> > > > > > 9H can mean fortune regarding wealth, the dharma followed in

> > > earning

> > > > > > wealth or the guidence (or mis-guidence) received in earning

> > > wealth

> > > > > > of things of sustenance etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As per Parasara, you should intelligently ask and assign the

> > > > > > significance of a particular house in a Varga Chakra. Note that

> > > > > > Lagna in that Chakra represents the native in the particular

> > > aspect

> > > > > > of life this Varga Chakra is Drawn. Ex. D-10 is a career Varga

> > > > > > chakra and La in D-10 shows the native himself in the field of

> > > > > > career. 9H here will show the nature of guidence and

> > > relationship

> > > > > > with the guide (read 'boss' or 'authority') in the career

> > > field.

> > > > > > I ask you to exercise your intelligence and derive the

> > > significance

> > > > > > of each divisional chart. It will help you immensely and show

> > > you

> > > > > > how deep the above quoted statement of Maharsi truely is !!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3. I will end my prolonged monologue by answering your last

> > > argument.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "So is [sic, 'in'] shastyamsha - the bhava whose lord in

> > > benefic

> > > > > > shstyamsha willflourish - where is this bhava found? In Rashi

> > > chakra

> > > > > > or shastyamsha? Ask this last question and you will not have

> > > anymore

> > > > > > doubts."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The referred statement in BPHS is C.8.6 If you see the context

> > > of

> > > > > > what Maharshi was talking about in that portion you will see

> > > that he

> > > > > > was speaking about what various vargas signify. In the end he

> > > says

> > > > > > this statement. Your translation of the statement is

> > > misleading. I

> > > > > > will take what Sri G. C. Sharma has given "There is no doubt

> > > in the

> > > > > > destruction of the house whose lord is in a malefic

> > > Sashtiamsa" This

> > > > > > clearly means that no matter what divisional chart you

> > > consider, if

> > > > > > any house lord in any such chart is in a bad Sashtiamsa (read

> > > ruled

> > > > > > by a malefic deity), that house in that varga chart is

> > > definitely

> > > > > > going to suffer. He didnt say if it is Rasi chart, thereby

> > > > > > indicating any divisional chart.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hope this discussion helps. It doesn't matter if I am new to

> > > this

> > > > > > discussion. I need not read all your previous e-mails. You

> > > seem to

> > > > > > be too attached to your own line of thinking and shutting away

> > > > > > others. It's best to challenge your own self in understanding

> > > rather

> > > > > > than jump up and challange other's understandings especially of

> > > > > > the learned and experienced like Guru Narasimha-ji.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sourav

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

> ===================================================================

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep"

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear shri Saurav

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You can address me without a ji.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I think you are new to this series of discussion on

> > > vargas.It has

> > > > > > been

> > > > > > > going on since long.More than a year.Shri Narasimha knows

> > > what i am

> > > > > > > saying.Also this thread started when shri Narasimha had

> > > analysed

> > > > > > new

> > > > > > > popes chart without giving importance to Rashi chart.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You should also carefully read all my mails before

> > > commenting.Every

> > > > > > > varga defined by sage parashara is important - i am only

> > > against

> > > > > > varga

> > > > > > > ''charts''.If you read those chapters with caution and fresh

> > > mind -

> > > > > > > all your doubts will be cleared.

> > > > > > > How to analyse Vargas has been clearly explained.Read

> > > vimshopaka

> > > > > > > strength in BPHS.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In bhava analysis - Parashara advises 9th house for father

> > > and 4th

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > mother - This is for rashi chakra not for vargas. Can you

> > > pls tell

> > > > > > me

> > > > > > > what is 4th and 9th houses in Hora?Hora is a division not a

> > > chart-

> > > > > > so

> > > > > > > are other vargas.After seeing 2nd house matters,one has to

> > > see the

> > > > > > > planets Hora placement.BPHS explains the strength of planets

> > > in

> > > > > > Hora.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So is shastyamsha - the bhava whose lord in benefic

> > > shstyamsha will

> > > > > > > flourish - where is this bhava found? In Rashi chakra or

> > > > > > shastyamsha?

> > > > > > > Ask this last question and you will not have anymore doubts.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Sourav Chowdhury"

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep-ji,

> > > > > > > > Namaskar. Your arguments are ill founded and you

> > > > > > > > haven't carefully read Guru Narasimha-ji's comments.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1. He never undermined the need to analyse rasi chart.

> > > Infact he

> > > > > > > > always say in this mp3 lessons that if Rasi chart doesn't

> > > allow

> > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > event, it will not happen even if indications are there in

> > > the

> > > > > > > > higher divisional chart. If you have read BPHS, Maharshi

> > > Parasara

> > > > > > > > has first described 16 divisions of signs (i.e. effectively

> > > > > > defining

> > > > > > > > the varga charts) and then went on into bhava analysis.

> > > Why so

> > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > importance to varga charts by the Sage himself ?!?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 2. Rasi chart's houses have so many significances, the

> > > same 4H

> > > > > > shows

> > > > > > > > motherly relationship, house, heart, vehicles happiness

> > > and so

> > > > > > on.

> > > > > > > > If you try to get all predictions done by rasi chart and

> > > then go

> > > > > > > > into vargas for a secondary check, you might be mislead.

> > > The

> > > > > > ideal

> > > > > > > > is to mix and match both of them.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 3. There is the beautiful example of twins who are born

> > > very

> > > > > > close

> > > > > > > > in time to each other and have completely different

> > > capabilities

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > personalities. You can read the details that Guru

> > > Narasimha-ji

> > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > posted in his website www.vedicastrologer.com . Kindly

> > > read it

> > > > > > > > before making further comments.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I like to see many schools of thought. It is beneficial to

> > > > > > learning.

> > > > > > > > But when arguments are made to a Guru's remark for the

> > > same of

> > > > > > > > argument, I think it doesn't stand good for the purpose of

> > > > > > learning.

> > > > > > > > I hope I will be taken based on what I wrote and meant and

> > > not

> > > > > > > > merely as blind defender of faith in my Guru.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sourav

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

> =====================================================================

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep"

> > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You are very right in pointing the imperfections.Now you

> > > have

> > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > Rashi chakra is very simple - Atleast not for me.I have

> > > not

> > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > understood 10 % of the basics on how to analyse rashi

> > > chakra

> > > > > > > > > properly.It will take many years to master.Also on one

> > > hand

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > combination of Rashi chakra with Vargas and on the other

> > > hand -

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > there is no Main chart.If rashi chakra is not the main

> > > why do

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > want to use them in combination with Vargas?.

> > > > > > > > > Also if Rashi chakra is not the main why do you give so

> > > many

> > > > > > yogas

> > > > > > > > > in your software based on Rashi chakra - pertaining to

> > > all

> > > > > > > > > aspects.If Rashi chakra is just for physique - how will

> > > we see

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > qualities of Mahapurusha from the Rashi chakra? How will

> > > we

> > > > > > see

> > > > > > > > > Saraswati yoga - the yoga for learning.If 10 th house

> > > and 10th

> > > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > in Rashi chakra is physical ,what is 10th ''house'' and

> > > lord

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > dashamsha.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Narasimha

> > > P.V.R. Rao"

> > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I will quickly try to respond to multiple mails on

> > > multiple

> > > > > > > > lists.

> > > > > > > > > These days I've been really busy and cannot give a more

> > > > > > detailed

> > > > > > > > > reply. I may not actually be able to give any further

> > > replies

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > this thread.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Can you explain why you have given TZ 2 for Marktl,

> > > > > > > > Germany?

> > > > > > > > > At 12 degrees

> > > > > > > > > > > East from Greenwich it is in TZ 1.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Gordon, I may be wrong. If the timezone should be 1:00,

> > > > > > please

> > > > > > > > > change the birthtime to 6:33:40 am to 5:33:40 am.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Bottomline is: I did not know the time and rectified

> > > lagna

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > and various divisions by retro-fitting.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > You wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > Interestingly, it is now Mars antardasa in Venus

> > > mahadasa!

> > > > > > > > > > > Please check, it is Sat Mahadasa and Moon Antardasa.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Praveen, you are right. There is a bug in my software

> > > in the

> > > > > > > > > second cycle of Shashtihayani dasa. Thanks for pointing

> > > this

> > > > > > out.

> > > > > > > > > I'll fix this.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Technically, BTW, whether we can use Shashtihayani dasa

> > > > > > after

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > age of 60 has passed is debatable. The same holds for

> > > other

> > > > > > dasas.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > It has been observed that the Rashi chakra was not

> > > given

> > > > > > due

> > > > > > > > > respect

> > > > > > > > > > > during your analysis.Results were decided on the

> > > basis of

> > > > > > > > varga -

> > > > > > > > > > > which is derived from Rashi chakra.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > As thousands of students are observing this

> > > analysis - Pls

> > > > > > > > make

> > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > clear is it possible to deduce results from varga of

> > > a

> > > > > > > > > planet/lagna

> > > > > > > > > > > alone.When Panditji had questioned a similar

> > > analysis on

> > > > > > > > > saptamsha -

> > > > > > > > > > > One could find Ms.Sarbani Sarkar rushing in and

> > > > > > correcting -

> > > > > > > > > > > Significance of Rashi chakra.I would be pleased to

> > > know if

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > hold a

> > > > > > > > > > > different position.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Pradeep, because you asked, I will clarify MY position.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > For perfection, multiple divisional charts should be

> > > judged

> > > > > > > > > together. We are often doing imperfect astrology for the

> > > sake

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > simplicity and look at only one chart. The best answer

> > > is not

> > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > single chart, but a combination of charts.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > But, if I have to choose a single chart, I'll choose

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > applicable varga (e.g. D-10 for career, D-24 for

> > > education

> > > > > > etc)

> > > > > > > > > rather than the rasi chart. Though imperfect, it works

> > > way

> > > > > > better

> > > > > > > > > for me than rasi chart alone.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > While combining rasi with divisions leads to better

> > > results,

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > still away from perfection. Perfection can come only when

> > > > > > > > > shashtyamsa (D-60) is understood correctly and used.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > When Parasara defined the matters seen in various

> > > divisions

> > > > > > > > (e.g.

> > > > > > > > > physical matters in rasi, financial matters in D-2,

> > > > > > professional

> > > > > > > > > matters in D-10), he said that "everything" is seen in D-

> > > 60.

> > > > > > Also

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > vimsopaka bala computation of dasa varga, D-60 gets a

> > > higher

> > > > > > > > > weightage than rasi and navamsa combined!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am fully convinced that the Jyotish is an imperfect

> > > > > > subject

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > just an art as long as one ignores D-60, which was given

> > > so

> > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > > importance by Parasara. Jyotish can be established as a

> > > > > > science

> > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > when we master D-60.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Kalyan verma states - one who is not considering the

> > > > > > vargas

> > > > > > > > > cannot

> > > > > > > > > > > make good predictions.What does this mean? Doesn't

> > > it mean

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > there

> > > > > > > > > > > is someother place - (other than vargas) - to read

> > > the

> > > > > > > > results?

> > > > > > > > > Which

> > > > > > > > > > > is this other MAIN place? Is it not the Rashi

> > > chakra?

> > > > > > Division

> > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > meaning should have a main to get divided.So which

> > > is this

> > > > > > > > main?

> > > > > > > > > If we

> > > > > > > > > > > consider Rashi chakra as the first division - then

> > > where

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > main?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Rasi is a divisional chart too. It is one of the vargas

> > > > > > > > according

> > > > > > > > > to Parasara.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > There is nothing called main and secondary. If you ask

> > > me to

> > > > > > > > pick

> > > > > > > > > the most important divisional chart, I'll pick D-60. As I

> > > > > > > > mentioned

> > > > > > > > > above, Parasara said everything can be seen in D-60 and

> > > gave

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > weightage than rasi and navamsa combined, when defining

> > > dasa

> > > > > > varga

> > > > > > > > > vimsopaka bala.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > > > Correct ! If we apply common sense, we can see

> > > Vargas

> > > > > > repeating

> > > > > > > > > > > with lagna as it is a few hours before. Only the Moon

> > > > > > changes

> > > > > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Vargas do not exactly repeat. Different divisions have

> > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > patterns. The navamsa, dasamsa, vimsamsa, chaturvimsamsa

> > > and

> > > > > > > > > shashtyamsa combination I identified in Aries rasi lagna

> > > does

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > repeat in Pisces rasi or Taurus rasi.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > position fast. Then, touchstone of any predictive

> > > > > > principle is

> > > > > > > > > advance

> > > > > > > > > > > predictions, which they always elude. Veteran

> > > astrologers

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > Jyotish

> > > > > > > > > > > Group like Shri K.N.Rao and Satya Prakash ji too

> > > advised

> > > > > > them,

> > > > > > > > > but

> > > > > > > > > > > of no avail. A whole generation is being misguided.

> > > Most

> > > > > > > > > unfortunate !

> > > > > > > > > > > But then, as Shri K.N.Rao says, it is the will of

> > > the God.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It is quite presumptuous of some to believe that "a

> > > whole

> > > > > > > > > generation is being misguided". Whether a generation is

> > > being

> > > > > > > > > misguided or guided in the correct direction to fully

> > > discover

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > teachings of maharshis and establish astrology as a

> > > science is

> > > > > > > > > something that the coming generations will judge.

> > > Neither I

> > > > > > nor

> > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > are in a position to pre-judge it.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Let me do my work and you do your work. There is no

> > > need to

> > > > > > talk

> > > > > > > > > about misguided generations.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > [Visti] Parasara states that if eighth lord is well

> > > placed

> > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > even exalted,

> > > > > > > > > > > then longevity will be long - This is also applied

> > > in the

> > > > > > > > method

> > > > > > > > > of three

> > > > > > > > > > > pairs. You may argue that the eighth lord when

> > > strong will

> > > > > > > > cause

> > > > > > > > > problems,

> > > > > > > > > > > but Harihara states in Prasna Marga, that when the

> > > planets

> > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > strong they

> > > > > > > > > > > will give their auspicious results - he states that

> > > this

> > > > > > > > applies

> > > > > > > > > to both

> > > > > > > > > > > natal and prasna charts. Further being Vara lord and

> > > in

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > fifth house, it

> > > > > > > > > > > means the digestive fire is excellent and excellent

> > > health

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > promised. This

> > > > > > > > > > > is not the problem.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Visti, I do not look at only the placement of vaaresha

> > > but

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > the ownership of the vaaresha. If the weekday lord in a

> > > > > > muhurta

> > > > > > > > > happens to be randhresha, I do not consider it

> > > auspicious.

> > > > > > This is

> > > > > > > > > just my view and not explicitly granted by classics. If

> > > you

> > > > > > have a

> > > > > > > > > different view, I can respect it.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > [Visti] What is your current view on the use of the

> > > > > > arudha

> > > > > > > > > lagna in the

> > > > > > > > > > > calculation of vaisheshikamsa?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Hmm, I don't have any view. I spent so much time

> > > mulling

> > > > > > over

> > > > > > > > > Parasara's vaiseshikamsa clause "swaaroodhaat kendra

> > > > > > naathaanaam

> > > > > > > > > vargaah graahyaah sudheemataa", but could not come to a

> > > > > > conclusion.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > When I wrote that Sun is in Brahmalokamsa in Pope

> > > Benedict

> > > > > > XVI's

> > > > > > > > > chart, I did not use the "swaaroodhaat" criterion. I

> > > used only

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > standard definition and ignoring the additional clause.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > When Lord Dakshinamurthy blesses me, I will understand

> > > this

> > > > > > > > clause

> > > > > > > > > correctly. When I do, I will share my understanding with

> > > all.

> > > > > > For

> > > > > > > > > now, I have no view.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > [Visti] In concur with your choice for the popes

> > > chart -

> > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > rectification.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much Visti. I am glad a Jyotish scholar

> > > of

> > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > knowledge and abilities has concurred with my

> > > rectification.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> > > > > > > > > > Narasimha

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

> ----------------------------

> > > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):

> > > > > > http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > > > > > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows):

> > > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > > > > > > > > SJC website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

> ----------------------------

> > > > > > ---

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor ----------------

> > > ----~-->

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> > > > > >

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> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

> --------------------------------

> > > ---~->

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Archives:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Group info:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

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> > > > > >

> > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > >

> > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > > > > > Links

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --

> > > > > V.Partha Sarathy,

> > > > > partvinu.blogspot.com

> > > > >

> > > > > All that we are is the result of what we have thought. If a man

> > > speaks or

> > > > > acts with an evil thought, pain follows him. If a man speaks or

> > > acts with a

> > > > > pure thought, happiness follows him, like a shadow that never

> > > leaves him.

> > > > > -----Buddha

> > > > >

> > > > > Plot.no.71

> > > > > Road No.3

> > > > > Nagarjuna Hills

> > > > > Hyderabad

> > > > > India-500 082

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> > > > >

> > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > > > >

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> > > > > Group info:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

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> > > > >

> > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > >

> > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > > > >

> > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > Links

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology/

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> > > > > vedic astrology

> > > > >

> > > > > Terms of

> > > Service.

> > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > Links

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology/

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology

> > > > >

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> > > > >

> > >

> > > Group info:

> > > vedic astrology/info.html

> > >

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> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

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> >

> > Links

> >

> >

> http://us.click./UwRTUD/UOnJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM

> >

> > Jagannathan .

>

> ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~-->

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>

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>

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>

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>

April 23, 2005

Namaste,

One point when I say "some are creating so many parameters". Please do

not write hate mail suggesting they are all given in BPHS. I know what

is given in BPHS. I am not sure whether BPHS is like a literature

survey. Whoever made that text was basically compiling the state of

jyotish at the time, so all different schools of jyotish are given

some theories may have been in more mature at the time than the

others. BV raman also has mentioned in his ashtakvarga book that

ashatakvarga ayurdaya method does not work in practice. So there are

things in BPHS that a few scolars have found to be either not working

or incomplete.

....

On 4/23/05, Panditji <navagraha wrote:

> Namaste,

>

> I have written another mail on this topic an hour back, please read

> that one too. Yes if there was a repeatable method to decipher these

> things we will all be so happy. Unfortunately the rishis did not give

> a single example chart for us to understand these principles.

>

> We are making a mistake of using after the fact analysis and

> explanations to advance the argument that divisions( or divisional

> charts for some) explain these mystries such as twins. You mention

> about mark waugh and steve waugh. One can explain after the fact

> anything. So bringing twins to advance this argument when one does not

> have high predictive success rate on natives who are not twins is like

> trying to plan a trip to the moon when one has not even flown across a

> river yet.

>

> Lets look at political predictions. Now when the two candidates are

> known, even my teenager has a 50-50 chance of predicting a winner. Now

> if someone predicts bush will win or kerry will lose thats really not

> an impressive prediction. Now if someone had predicted that Clinton

> would win the election when he announced his candidacy in Nov 1991,

> when he had just begun the run for democratic nomination and bush sr.

> was at the peak of his approval ratings, I would call that a

> prediction. When there are only two left in the race, a flip of coin

> will have the same chance of success.

>

> I do not think that jyotish has evolved to a point where it can have

> such a predictive accuracy. Some are basically creating so many

> parameters( Arudh, dashas in divisions, rashi dasha, nakshatra

> dasha,tithi pravesh,argala) the list is endless that if we do not find

> an event in a chart that would be a surprise. Thats why a few on this

> list have raised these questions.

>

> ...

>

> On 4/23/05, kapisthalam jagannathan <jagannathankr wrote:

> > Dear Sir,

> > i am happy to read your kind and loving mail.you are all men of knowledge

> > and skills.You are real seekers.I have no doubt.I pray to God for your

> > success.

> > Just like anyother person,I am attracted by the great works of Rishis and

> > particularly the Nadi Grandhas which seem to be mysterious .Alas, we lost

> > our rich heritage and what we have now left with us ,seems to be only bones

> > and ashes of the past.

> > Regards,

> > jagannathan.

> >

> > vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> >

> > Dear shri Utpal

> >

> > As Jagannathan ji has mentioned there are many things which cannot be

> > explained without experience and sadhana.For this we have to study and

> > persevere for years.There are no short cuts.If we cannot understand -

> > it does not mean we can use bhavas everywhere.

> >

> > If the twins are taken out in emergency by ceasarian section then it

> > is even possible to have same shastiamsha.

> >

> > I hope people will not bring in bhavas for nadiamshas.

> > Navamsha has significance due to concurrence with nakshathra

> > padas.Vedic astrology is rooted in nakshathras.It is also a division.

> >

> > Dear Jagannathan ji

> >

> > Your posts and writings are very balanced.I respect your open view.I

> > never said my view is correct.I am just asking questions.

> > Even the lord is learning.Avataras of bhagavan too were subjected to

> > karma and results.It is this continuous learning that keeps the

> > universe alive.

> >

> > Respect

> > Pradeep

> >

> > vedic astrology, kapisthalam jagannathan

> > wrote:

> > > Dear Sir,

> > > I have been reading your kind mails.

> > > Suppose two or more than two are born at almost the same time ,date

> > ,place etc ,may be to different parents, how are we account for

> > differences amongst them astrologically.let alone the question of

> > twins.?I wish some astrologer explains.

> > > Regards,

> > > jagannathan.

> > >

> > > Utpal Pathak wrote:

> > > Dear Pandit ji & Pradeep ji (You both deserve to be JI for Me)

> > >

> > > Are we not casting 'Navmansha Chart' and give importance (pl. read

> > Much) to it. if D9 Chart, being a Varga chart can be analysed with so

> > much intrest in judging any chart then the same logic should also

> > apply to other Varga Charts.

> > >

> > > You asked following things

> > > > > Both have the same navamsha. If twins case can be explained

> > > > with

> > > > > divisional charts, are you suggesting that both will get married at

> > > > > the same time ? Will their spouses nature will be identical ?

> > >

> > > I am really surprised about your question at the same time I am very

> > very curious to know the answer for you. Without not taking any help

> > from any other Vargas and just by Looking the same Navmansha & Rashi,

> > how you convincingly suggest to find out the marriage timing and

> > nature of Spouses etc..

> > >

> > > At least the other Vargas provide some Valuable insight in to the

> > differences in the different areas of lives of twins. if not d9 then

> > d10 or D12 or D16 or D24 or D30 OR Shatyamsa.

> > >

> > > For Example: - Mark Waugh & Steve Waugh had Career in Similar field

> > (Cricket) but their Achievements, Span of Career, Exploits & Talents

> > were not Identical. i don't have their birth detials but they may have

> > same d10 along with same rasi chart ofcourse.

> > >

> > > pl. take it very positively and answer to me for the benefit of

> > every body

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Utpal

> > >

> > > Panditji wrote:

> > > Namaste Pradeepji ( You deserve the Ji, trust me)

> > >

> > > What if the twins have same navansha or saptamsha ?

> > >

> > > Ofcourse I forgot that the sjc parampara has many versions of

> > > divisional charts. 3 varieties of navanshas so if the data does not

> > > fit, try the different flavor of navansha or saptamsha. Are there are

> > > a few versions of rashi charts as well ?

> > >

> > > ...

> > >

> > > On 4/22/05, vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Panditji

> > > >

> > > > Medical science says average time gap between twins are 15-17

> > > > minutes.Thus twins can be born between 10 minutes as well as 30

> > > > minutes.

> > > >

> > > > Thus as you have said - there can be possibility that twins can have

> > > > same hora,same drekkana,same saptamsha and same dashamsha.

> > > >

> > > > Can anyone help me in analysing saptamsha bhavas and dashamsha

> > > > bhavas here.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, Panditji

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > Namaste,

> > > > >

> > > > > Sharmaji of this list had given a chart of twins a couple of months

> > > > > back. Both have the same navamsha. If twins case can be explained

> > > > with

> > > > > divisional charts, are you suggesting that both will get married at

> > > > > the same time ? Will their spouses nature will be identical ?

> > > > >

> > > > > ...

> > > > >

> > > > > On 4/22/05, Utpal Pathak wrote:

> > > > > > All respected Luminiaries of Jtotisha & Philosophy,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I would like to add my 2 cent...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > following argument Appealed me and convinced me about

> > > > the 'Importance' of

> > > > > > Varga chart

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1) Each House in Rashi chart stands for so many matters. how to

> > > > > > diifferntiate? (pl. i know karka technology)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2) If rishi says that d9 is chart for dharma/spouse, d10 for

> > > > respect and

> > > > > > work in , d12 for parents and so on & so forth then it

> > > > automatically brings

> > > > > > the important of Vargas as 'Charts' and not merely tool to see

> > > > Vimshopak

> > > > > > bal, Vaiseshikamsha etc..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3) Major difference in lives of Twins can be most fittingly

> > > > justied only by

> > > > > > Difference in Varga charts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > utpal pathak

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Partha Sarathy wrote:

> > > > > > Dear Sourav

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That was a brilliant mail.

> > > > > > I am especially interested in the Trimsamsa sloka. Could you

> > > > kindly for the

> > > > > > benefit of the readers, explain each individual term and give a

> > > > detailed

> > > > > > interpretation.

> > > > > > best wishes

> > > > > > partha

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 4/22/05, Sourav Chowdhury wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||

> > > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Pradeep-ji,

> > > > > > > Namaskar. As per your request, I have reread

> > > > the

> > > > > > > postions of the BPHS which is relevent to your and my

> > > > arguments once

> > > > > > > more so that I am confident in giving this reply. I wish not to

> > > > > > > write any more in this subject as it is useless to argue

> > > > against ill

> > > > > > > formed hypotheses, some of which is in your reply.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "You should also carefully read all my mails before

> > > > commenting.Every

> > > > > > > varga defined by sage parashara is important - i am only

> > > > against

> > > > > > > varga ''charts''."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My argument: I will only use BPHS in my argument.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1. Maharshi Parasara (and the rishis of his era and later eras)

> > > > > > > wrote in clear, unequivocal but also pithy form so save space

> > > > but to

> > > > > > > deliver the message clearly. So each word is very relevant and

> > > > > > > important.Now let us see the arrangement of chapters in the

> > > > BPHS.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > C.1 - The Creation

> > > > > > > C.2 - Great Incarnations of the Lord

> > > > > > > C.3 - Planetary Characters and Description

> > > > > > > C.4 - Zodiacal Signs

> > > > > > > C.5 - Finding Planetary Positions

> > > > > > > C.6 - Special Ascendants

> > > > > > > C.7 - The Sixteen Divisions of a Sign

> > > > > > > C.8 - Divisional Consideration

> > > > > > > C.9 - Aspects of the Signs

> > > > > > > C.10- Surroundings at the Time of Birth

> > > > > > > C.11- Evils at Birth

> > > > > > > C.12- Antidotes for Evil

> > > > > > > C.13- Judgement of Houses

> > > > > > > C.14- Effects of the 1st House

> > > > > > > C.15- Effects of the 2nd House

> > > > > > > (etc.)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > From the scheme of things, it is very clear that Vargas are of

> > > > prime

> > > > > > > importance. Explanations are given for Rasi Chakra Analysis

> > > > **only

> > > > > > > after** defining in details all the sixteen divisions of a

> > > > sign, the

> > > > > > > formulation of these vargas and the presiding deities. This is

> > > > > > > significant.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You again said:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "If you read those chapters with caution and fresh mind all

> > > > your

> > > > > > > doubts will be cleared. How to analyse Vargas has been clearly

> > > > > > > explained.Read vimshopaka strength in BPHS."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Are you implying the Parasara went into all the trouble of

> > > > details

> > > > > > > of vargas and presiding deities just to give us a clue for

> > > > > > > Vimshopaka Bala of planets ?? This is a completely mistaken

> > > > argument.

> > > > > > > I will tell you why.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > BPHS C.7.2-3

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Kshetram hora cha dreskaanasturyamsah saptamamsaka |

> > > > > > > Navamso dasaamamsascha suryamsah shodasamsaka ||

> > > > > > > Vimsamso vedavamso bhamsatrimsamsakastatah |

> > > > > > > khavedamshokhsabedamsah sasthiamsascha tatah param ||

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "These vargas are: Griha (rasi or sign), Hora, Drekkana,

> > > > > > > Chaturthamsa, Saptamamsa, Navamamsa, Dasamamsa, Dwadasamamsa,

> > > > > > > Shodasamamsa, Vimsamsa, Chaturvimsamsa, Saptavimsamsa,

> > > > Trimsamsa,

> > > > > > > Khavedamsa, Akshavedamsa and Sasthiamsa."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rasi (see the words Kshetram hora cha ..) is clearly clubbed

> > > > > > > together with other vargas. Hence if we treat rasi's as bhavas

> > > > and

> > > > > > > perform bhava analysis, why shouldn't we do the same with other

> > > > > > > vargas which are only higher divisions of the zodiac just as

> > > > rasi

> > > > > > > also is ?!? Thus Rasi Chart is definitely a divisional chart

> > > > (called

> > > > > > > D-1) and the way it is going to be analysed (from C.13

> > > > onwards) will

> > > > > > > show us the way other varga charts should be analysed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I will give you one more indication of the above conclusion:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > BPHS C.8.16 (last line)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Trimsamsake vichintyayevamatrapi grihabat smritam ||

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Here the Sage gives clear instruction that Chaturthamsa,

> > > > Navamamsa,

> > > > > > > Trimsamsa etc. vargas chakras will be studies **like the 12

> > > > houses**

> > > > > > > in the birth chart (rasi chakra).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thus it is doubtless that Maharshi indicated that all 16

> > > > vargas are

> > > > > > > to be analysed as individual "charts" just like the most

> > > > popular of

> > > > > > > them i.e. the rasi varga chart. I hope this expunges all doubt.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2. Your next argument is trying to show that varga charts

> > > > cannot

> > > > > > > exist because it becomes difficult to apply bhava

> > > > significances in

> > > > > > > varga charts.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You stated:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "In bhava analysis - Parashara advises 9th house for father

> > > > and 4th

> > > > > > > for mother - This is for rashi chakra not for vargas. Can you

> > > > pls

> > > > > > > tell me what is 4th and 9th houses in Hora?Hora is a division

> > > > not a

> > > > > > > chart- so are other vargas.After seeing 2nd house matters,one

> > > > has to

> > > > > > > see the planets Hora placement.BPHS explains the strength of

> > > > planets

> > > > > > > in Hora."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > BPHS C.8.37-38

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Tanurdhanam cha sahaje bandhuputrarayastatha |

> > > > > > > Yuvatirandhradharmashakarmalabhabyayah kramat ||

> > > > > > > Sanshepenaitaduditamanyad budhyayanusaaratah |

> > > > > > > Kinchivishesam vakshyami yatha brahmamukhaachhrutam ||

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " Tanu, Dhana, Sahaja, Bandhu, Putra, Ari, Yuvati, Randhra,

> > > > Dharma,

> > > > > > > Karma, Laabha and Vyaya are in order the names of the 12

> > > > houses.

> > > > > > > Other things than these should be understood according to

> > > > one's own

> > > > > > > intelligence. Now I will try to tell you some new things which

> > > > I

> > > > > > > heard from the speech of Lord Brahma"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Carefully read this part ** Other things than these should be

> > > > > > > understood according to one's own intelligence ** Thus in each

> > > > > > > divisional chart each house can potentially mean different

> > > > things

> > > > > > > depending on the particular varga chart in question !!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This responds to your second argument. Refer to Message #

> > > > 55218 by

> > > > > > > Guru Narasimha-ji for further understanding what house can

> > > > mean what

> > > > > > > in a particular Varga. Parasari Hora Chart has two houses only.

> > > > > > > Infact this is an exceptional chart in that sense and thus you

> > > > > > > cannot really ask for the significance for the 4H or 9H as

> > > > they dont

> > > > > > > exist in this particular chart!! In case of other kinds of

> > > > Hora

> > > > > > > charts like Kashinatha Hora, 4H can mean sukha regarding

> > > > wealth and

> > > > > > > 9H can mean fortune regarding wealth, the dharma followed in

> > > > earning

> > > > > > > wealth or the guidence (or mis-guidence) received in earning

> > > > wealth

> > > > > > > of things of sustenance etc.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As per Parasara, you should intelligently ask and assign the

> > > > > > > significance of a particular house in a Varga Chakra. Note that

> > > > > > > Lagna in that Chakra represents the native in the particular

> > > > aspect

> > > > > > > of life this Varga Chakra is Drawn. Ex. D-10 is a career Varga

> > > > > > > chakra and La in D-10 shows the native himself in the field of

> > > > > > > career. 9H here will show the nature of guidence and

> > > > relationship

> > > > > > > with the guide (read 'boss' or 'authority') in the career

> > > > field.

> > > > > > > I ask you to exercise your intelligence and derive the

> > > > significance

> > > > > > > of each divisional chart. It will help you immensely and show

> > > > you

> > > > > > > how deep the above quoted statement of Maharsi truely is !!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 3. I will end my prolonged monologue by answering your last

> > > > argument.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You said:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "So is [sic, 'in'] shastyamsha - the bhava whose lord in

> > > > benefic

> > > > > > > shstyamsha willflourish - where is this bhava found? In Rashi

> > > > chakra

> > > > > > > or shastyamsha? Ask this last question and you will not have

> > > > anymore

> > > > > > > doubts."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The referred statement in BPHS is C.8.6 If you see the context

> > > > of

> > > > > > > what Maharshi was talking about in that portion you will see

> > > > that he

> > > > > > > was speaking about what various vargas signify. In the end he

> > > > says

> > > > > > > this statement. Your translation of the statement is

> > > > misleading. I

> > > > > > > will take what Sri G. C. Sharma has given "There is no doubt

> > > > in the

> > > > > > > destruction of the house whose lord is in a malefic

> > > > Sashtiamsa" This

> > > > > > > clearly means that no matter what divisional chart you

> > > > consider, if

> > > > > > > any house lord in any such chart is in a bad Sashtiamsa (read

> > > > ruled

> > > > > > > by a malefic deity), that house in that varga chart is

> > > > definitely

> > > > > > > going to suffer. He didnt say if it is Rasi chart, thereby

> > > > > > > indicating any divisional chart.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hope this discussion helps. It doesn't matter if I am new to

> > > > this

> > > > > > > discussion. I need not read all your previous e-mails. You

> > > > seem to

> > > > > > > be too attached to your own line of thinking and shutting away

> > > > > > > others. It's best to challenge your own self in understanding

> > > > rather

> > > > > > > than jump up and challange other's understandings especially of

> > > > > > > the learned and experienced like Guru Narasimha-ji.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sourav

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > ===================================================================

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep"

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear shri Saurav

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You can address me without a ji.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I think you are new to this series of discussion on

> > > > vargas.It has

> > > > > > > been

> > > > > > > > going on since long.More than a year.Shri Narasimha knows

> > > > what i am

> > > > > > > > saying.Also this thread started when shri Narasimha had

> > > > analysed

> > > > > > > new

> > > > > > > > popes chart without giving importance to Rashi chart.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You should also carefully read all my mails before

> > > > commenting.Every

> > > > > > > > varga defined by sage parashara is important - i am only

> > > > against

> > > > > > > varga

> > > > > > > > ''charts''.If you read those chapters with caution and fresh

> > > > mind -

> > > > > > > > all your doubts will be cleared.

> > > > > > > > How to analyse Vargas has been clearly explained.Read

> > > > vimshopaka

> > > > > > > > strength in BPHS.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In bhava analysis - Parashara advises 9th house for father

> > > > and 4th

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > mother - This is for rashi chakra not for vargas. Can you

> > > > pls tell

> > > > > > > me

> > > > > > > > what is 4th and 9th houses in Hora?Hora is a division not a

> > > > chart-

> > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > are other vargas.After seeing 2nd house matters,one has to

> > > > see the

> > > > > > > > planets Hora placement.BPHS explains the strength of planets

> > > > in

> > > > > > > Hora.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So is shastyamsha - the bhava whose lord in benefic

> > > > shstyamsha will

> > > > > > > > flourish - where is this bhava found? In Rashi chakra or

> > > > > > > shastyamsha?

> > > > > > > > Ask this last question and you will not have anymore doubts.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Sourav Chowdhury"

> > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep-ji,

> > > > > > > > > Namaskar. Your arguments are ill founded and you

> > > > > > > > > haven't carefully read Guru Narasimha-ji's comments.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1. He never undermined the need to analyse rasi chart.

> > > > Infact he

> > > > > > > > > always say in this mp3 lessons that if Rasi chart doesn't

> > > > allow

> > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > event, it will not happen even if indications are there in

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > higher divisional chart. If you have read BPHS, Maharshi

> > > > Parasara

> > > > > > > > > has first described 16 divisions of signs (i.e. effectively

> > > > > > > defining

> > > > > > > > > the varga charts) and then went on into bhava analysis.

> > > > Why so

> > > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > > importance to varga charts by the Sage himself ?!?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 2. Rasi chart's houses have so many significances, the

> > > > same 4H

> > > > > > > shows

> > > > > > > > > motherly relationship, house, heart, vehicles happiness

> > > > and so

> > > > > > > on.

> > > > > > > > > If you try to get all predictions done by rasi chart and

> > > > then go

> > > > > > > > > into vargas for a secondary check, you might be mislead.

> > > > The

> > > > > > > ideal

> > > > > > > > > is to mix and match both of them.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 3. There is the beautiful example of twins who are born

> > > > very

> > > > > > > close

> > > > > > > > > in time to each other and have completely different

> > > > capabilities

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > personalities. You can read the details that Guru

> > > > Narasimha-ji

> > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > posted in his website www.vedicastrologer.com . Kindly

> > > > read it

> > > > > > > > > before making further comments.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I like to see many schools of thought. It is beneficial to

> > > > > > > learning.

> > > > > > > > > But when arguments are made to a Guru's remark for the

> > > > same of

> > > > > > > > > argument, I think it doesn't stand good for the purpose of

> > > > > > > learning.

> > > > > > > > > I hope I will be taken based on what I wrote and meant and

> > > > not

> > > > > > > > > merely as blind defender of faith in my Guru.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Sourav

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > =====================================================================

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep"

> > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You are very right in pointing the imperfections.Now you

> > > > have

> > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > Rashi chakra is very simple - Atleast not for me.I have

> > > > not

> > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > understood 10 % of the basics on how to analyse rashi

> > > > chakra

> > > > > > > > > > properly.It will take many years to master.Also on one

> > > > hand

> > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > combination of Rashi chakra with Vargas and on the other

> > > > hand -

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > there is no Main chart.If rashi chakra is not the main

> > > > why do

> > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > want to use them in combination with Vargas?.

> > > > > > > > > > Also if Rashi chakra is not the main why do you give so

> > > > many

> > > > > > > yogas

> > > > > > > > > > in your software based on Rashi chakra - pertaining to

> > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > aspects.If Rashi chakra is just for physique - how will

> > > > we see

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > qualities of Mahapurusha from the Rashi chakra? How will

> > > > we

> > > > > > > see

> > > > > > > > > > Saraswati yoga - the yoga for learning.If 10 th house

> > > > and 10th

> > > > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > > in Rashi chakra is physical ,what is 10th ''house'' and

> > > > lord

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > dashamsha.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Narasimha

> > > > P.V.R. Rao"

> > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I will quickly try to respond to multiple mails on

> > > > multiple

> > > > > > > > > lists.

> > > > > > > > > > These days I've been really busy and cannot give a more

> > > > > > > detailed

> > > > > > > > > > reply. I may not actually be able to give any further

> > > > replies

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > this thread.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Can you explain why you have given TZ 2 for Marktl,

> > > > > > > > > Germany?

> > > > > > > > > > At 12 degrees

> > > > > > > > > > > > East from Greenwich it is in TZ 1.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Gordon, I may be wrong. If the timezone should be 1:00,

> > > > > > > please

> > > > > > > > > > change the birthtime to 6:33:40 am to 5:33:40 am.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Bottomline is: I did not know the time and rectified

> > > > lagna

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > > and various divisions by retro-fitting.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > You wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Interestingly, it is now Mars antardasa in Venus

> > > > mahadasa!

> > > > > > > > > > > > Please check, it is Sat Mahadasa and Moon Antardasa.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Praveen, you are right. There is a bug in my software

> > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > > second cycle of Shashtihayani dasa. Thanks for pointing

> > > > this

> > > > > > > out.

> > > > > > > > > > I'll fix this.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Technically, BTW, whether we can use Shashtihayani dasa

> > > > > > > after

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > age of 60 has passed is debatable. The same holds for

> > > > other

> > > > > > > dasas.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > It has been observed that the Rashi chakra was not

> > > > given

> > > > > > > due

> > > > > > > > > > respect

> > > > > > > > > > > > during your analysis.Results were decided on the

> > > > basis of

> > > > > > > > > varga -

> > > > > > > > > > > > which is derived from Rashi chakra.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > As thousands of students are observing this

> > > > analysis - Pls

> > > > > > > > > make

> > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > clear is it possible to deduce results from varga of

> > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > planet/lagna

> > > > > > > > > > > > alone.When Panditji had questioned a similar

> > > > analysis on

> > > > > > > > > > saptamsha -

> > > > > > > > > > > > One could find Ms.Sarbani Sarkar rushing in and

> > > > > > > correcting -

> > > > > > > > > > > > Significance of Rashi chakra.I would be pleased to

> > > > know if

> > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > hold a

> > > > > > > > > > > > different position.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep, because you asked, I will clarify MY position.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > For perfection, multiple divisional charts should be

> > > > judged

> > > > > > > > > > together. We are often doing imperfect astrology for the

> > > > sake

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > simplicity and look at only one chart. The best answer

> > > > is not

> > > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > > single chart, but a combination of charts.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > But, if I have to choose a single chart, I'll choose

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > applicable varga (e.g. D-10 for career, D-24 for

> > > > education

> > > > > > > etc)

> > > > > > > > > > rather than the rasi chart. Though imperfect, it works

> > > > way

> > > > > > > better

> > > > > > > > > > for me than rasi chart alone.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > While combining rasi with divisions leads to better

> > > > results,

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > still away from perfection. Perfection can come only when

> > > > > > > > > > shashtyamsa (D-60) is understood correctly and used.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > When Parasara defined the matters seen in various

> > > > divisions

> > > > > > > > > (e.g.

> > > > > > > > > > physical matters in rasi, financial matters in D-2,

> > > > > > > professional

> > > > > > > > > > matters in D-10), he said that "everything" is seen in D-

> > > > 60.

> > > > > > > Also

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > vimsopaka bala computation of dasa varga, D-60 gets a

> > > > higher

> > > > > > > > > > weightage than rasi and navamsa combined!

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am fully convinced that the Jyotish is an imperfect

> > > > > > > subject

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > just an art as long as one ignores D-60, which was given

> > > > so

> > > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > > > importance by Parasara. Jyotish can be established as a

> > > > > > > science

> > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > when we master D-60.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Kalyan verma states - one who is not considering the

> > > > > > > vargas

> > > > > > > > > > cannot

> > > > > > > > > > > > make good predictions.What does this mean? Doesn't

> > > > it mean

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > there

> > > > > > > > > > > > is someother place - (other than vargas) - to read

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > results?

> > > > > > > > > > Which

> > > > > > > > > > > > is this other MAIN place? Is it not the Rashi

> > > > chakra?

> > > > > > > Division

> > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > meaning should have a main to get divided.So which

> > > > is this

> > > > > > > > > main?

> > > > > > > > > > If we

> > > > > > > > > > > > consider Rashi chakra as the first division - then

> > > > where

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > main?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Rasi is a divisional chart too. It is one of the vargas

> > > > > > > > > according

> > > > > > > > > > to Parasara.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing called main and secondary. If you ask

> > > > me to

> > > > > > > > > pick

> > > > > > > > > > the most important divisional chart, I'll pick D-60. As I

> > > > > > > > > mentioned

> > > > > > > > > > above, Parasara said everything can be seen in D-60 and

> > > > gave

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > weightage than rasi and navamsa combined, when defining

> > > > dasa

> > > > > > > varga

> > > > > > > > > > vimsopaka bala.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Correct ! If we apply common sense, we can see

> > > > Vargas

> > > > > > > repeating

> > > > > > > > > > > > with lagna as it is a few hours before. Only the Moon

> > > > > > > changes

> > > > > > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Vargas do not exactly repeat. Different divisions have

> > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > patterns. The navamsa, dasamsa, vimsamsa, chaturvimsamsa

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > shashtyamsa combination I identified in Aries rasi lagna

> > > > does

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > repeat in Pisces rasi or Taurus rasi.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > position fast. Then, touchstone of any predictive

> > > > > > > principle is

> > > > > > > > > > advance

> > > > > > > > > > > > predictions, which they always elude. Veteran

> > > > astrologers

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > Jyotish

> > > > > > > > > > > > Group like Shri K.N.Rao and Satya Prakash ji too

> > > > advised

> > > > > > > them,

> > > > > > > > > > but

> > > > > > > > > > > > of no avail. A whole generation is being misguided.

> > > > Most

> > > > > > > > > > unfortunate !

> > > > > > > > > > > > But then, as Shri K.N.Rao says, it is the will of

> > > > the God.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > It is quite presumptuous of some to believe that "a

> > > > whole

> > > > > > > > > > generation is being misguided". Whether a generation is

> > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > misguided or guided in the correct direction to fully

> > > > discover

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > teachings of maharshis and establish astrology as a

> > > > science is

> > > > > > > > > > something that the coming generations will judge.

> > > > Neither I

> > > > > > > nor

> > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > are in a position to pre-judge it.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Let me do my work and you do your work. There is no

> > > > need to

> > > > > > > talk

> > > > > > > > > > about misguided generations.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > [Visti] Parasara states that if eighth lord is well

> > > > placed

> > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > even exalted,

> > > > > > > > > > > > then longevity will be long - This is also applied

> > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > method

> > > > > > > > > > of three

> > > > > > > > > > > > pairs. You may argue that the eighth lord when

> > > > strong will

> > > > > > > > > cause

> > > > > > > > > > problems,

> > > > > > > > > > > > but Harihara states in Prasna Marga, that when the

> > > > planets

> > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > strong they

> > > > > > > > > > > > will give their auspicious results - he states that

> > > > this

> > > > > > > > > applies

> > > > > > > > > > to both

> > > > > > > > > > > > natal and prasna charts. Further being Vara lord and

> > > > in

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > fifth house, it

> > > > > > > > > > > > means the digestive fire is excellent and excellent

> > > > health

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > promised. This

> > > > > > > > > > > > is not the problem.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Visti, I do not look at only the placement of vaaresha

> > > > but

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > the ownership of the vaaresha. If the weekday lord in a

> > > > > > > muhurta

> > > > > > > > > > happens to be randhresha, I do not consider it

> > > > auspicious.

> > > > > > > This is

> > > > > > > > > > just my view and not explicitly granted by classics. If

> > > > you

> > > > > > > have a

> > > > > > > > > > different view, I can respect it.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > [Visti] What is your current view on the use of the

> > > > > > > arudha

> > > > > > > > > > lagna in the

> > > > > > > > > > > > calculation of vaisheshikamsa?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Hmm, I don't have any view. I spent so much time

> > > > mulling

> > > > > > > over

> > > > > > > > > > Parasara's vaiseshikamsa clause "swaaroodhaat kendra

> > > > > > > naathaanaam

> > > > > > > > > > vargaah graahyaah sudheemataa", but could not come to a

> > > > > > > conclusion.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > When I wrote that Sun is in Brahmalokamsa in Pope

> > > > Benedict

> > > > > > > XVI's

> > > > > > > > > > chart, I did not use the "swaaroodhaat" criterion. I

> > > > used only

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > standard definition and ignoring the additional clause.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > When Lord Dakshinamurthy blesses me, I will understand

> > > > this

> > > > > > > > > clause

> > > > > > > > > > correctly. When I do, I will share my understanding with

> > > > all.

> > > > > > > For

> > > > > > > > > > now, I have no view.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > [Visti] In concur with your choice for the popes

> > > > chart -

> > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > rectification.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much Visti. I am glad a Jyotish scholar

> > > > of

> > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > knowledge and abilities has concurred with my

> > > > rectification.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> > > > > > > > > > > Narasimha

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > ----------------------------

> > > > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):

> > > > > > > http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > > > > > > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows):

> > > > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > > > > > > > > > SJC website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > ----------------------------

> > > > > > > ---

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor ----------------

> > > > ----~-->

> > > > > > > Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease?

> > > > > > > Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness

> > > > efforts!

> > > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > --------------------------------

> > > > ---~->

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Archives:

> > > > vedic astrology

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Group info:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> > > > > > vedic astrology-

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > > > > > > Links

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --

> > > > > > V.Partha Sarathy,

> > > > > > partvinu.blogspot.com

> > > > > >

> > > > > > All that we are is the result of what we have thought. If a man

> > > > speaks or

> > > > > > acts with an evil thought, pain follows him. If a man speaks or

> > > > acts with a

> > > > > > pure thought, happiness follows him, like a shadow that never

> > > > leaves him.

> > > > > > -----Buddha

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Plot.no.71

> > > > > > Road No.3

> > > > > > Nagarjuna Hills

> > > > > > Hyderabad

> > > > > > India-500 082

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Archives:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Group info:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> > > > > > vedic astrology-

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > >

> > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Archives:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Group info:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> > > > > > vedic astrology-

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > >

> > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > > Links

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology/

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Terms of

> > > > Service.

> > > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > > Links

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology/

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Terms of

> > > > Service.

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Group info:

> > > >

> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> > > > vedic astrology-

> > > >

> > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > >

> > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > > >

> > > > ________________________________

> > > > Links

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology/

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology

> > > >

> > >

> > > Group info:

> > >

> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> > >

> > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > >

> > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > >

> > > Group info:

> > >

> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> > >

> > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > >

> > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > >

> > > Links

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Jagannathan .

> >

> > Group info:

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > Links

> >

> > Jagannathan .

> >

> > Group info:

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> > ________________________________

> > Links

> >

> >

> >

>

April 23, 2005

yes .You are right.I pray to God to grant us the real jnowlege of Astrology.

regards,

jagannathan.Panditji <navagraha > wrote:

Namaste,I have written another mail on this topic an hour back, please readthat

one too. Yes if there was a repeatable method to decipher thesethings we will

all be so happy. Unfortunately the rishis did not givea single example chart

for us to understand these principles.We are making a mistake of using after

the fact analysis andexplanations to advance the argument that divisions( or

divisionalcharts for some) explain these mystries such as twins. You

mentionabout mark waugh and steve waugh. One can explain after the

factanything. So bringing twins to advance this argument when one does nothave

high predictive success rate on natives who are not twins is liketrying to plan

a trip to the moon when one has not even flown across ariver yet.Lets look at

political predictions. Now when the two candidates areknown,

even my teenager has a 50-50 chance of predicting a winner. Nowif someone

predicts bush will win or kerry will lose thats really notan impressive

prediction. Now if someone had predicted that Clintonwould win the election

when he announced his candidacy in Nov 1991,when he had just begun the run for

democratic nomination and bush sr.was at the peak of his approval ratings, I

would call that aprediction. When there are only two left in the race, a flip

of coinwill have the same chance of success.I do not think that jyotish has

evolved to a point where it can havesuch a predictive accuracy. Some are

basically creating so manyparameters( Arudh, dashas in divisions, rashi dasha,

nakshatradasha,tithi pravesh,argala) the list is endless that if we do not

findan event in a chart that would be a surprise. Thats why a few on thislist

have raised these questions....On 4/23/05, kapisthalam jagannathan

wrote:> Dear Sir,> i am happy to read your kind and loving mail.you are all men

of knowledge> and skills.You are real seekers.I have no doubt.I pray to God for

your> success.> Just like anyother person,I am attracted by the great works of

Rishis and> particularly the Nadi Grandhas which seem to be mysterious .Alas,

we lost> our rich heritage and what we have now left with us ,seems to be only

bones> and ashes of the past.> Regards,> jagannathan.> > vijayadas_pradeep

wrote:> > > Dear shri Utpal > > As Jagannathan ji has mentioned there are many

things which cannot be> explained without experience and sadhana.For this we

have to study and> persevere for years.There are no short cuts.If we cannot

understand -> it does not mean we can use bhavas everywhere. > > If the twins

are

taken out in emergency by ceasarian section then it> is even possible to have

same shastiamsha.> > I hope people will not bring in bhavas for nadiamshas.>

Navamsha has significance due to concurrence with nakshathra> padas.Vedic

astrology is rooted in nakshathras.It is also a division.> > > Dear Jagannathan

ji> > Your posts and writings are very balanced.I respect your open view.I>

never said my view is correct.I am just asking questions.> Even the lord is

learning.Avataras of bhagavan too were subjected to> karma and results.It is

this continuous learning that keeps the> universe alive.> > Respect> Pradeep> >

> vedic astrology, kapisthalam jagannathan> wrote:> >

Dear Sir,> > I have been reading your kind mails.> > Suppose two or more than

two are born at almost the same time

,date> ,place etc ,may be to different parents, how are we account for>

differences amongst them astrologically.let alone the question of> twins.?I

wish some astrologer explains.> > Regards,> > jagannathan.> > > > Utpal Pathak

wrote:> > Dear Pandit ji & Pradeep ji (You both deserve to be JI for Me)> > > >

Are we not casting 'Navmansha Chart' and give importance (pl. read> Much) to it.

if D9 Chart, being a Varga chart can be analysed with so> much intrest in

judging any chart then the same logic should also> apply to other Varga

Charts.> > > > You asked following things> > > > Both have the same navamsha.

If twins case can be explained > > > with> > > > divisional charts, are you

suggesting that both will get married at> > > > the same time ? Will their

spouses nature will be identical

?> > > > > > I am really surprised about your question at the same time I am

very> very curious to know the answer for you. Without not taking any help>

from any other Vargas and just by Looking the same Navmansha & Rashi,> how you

convincingly suggest to find out the marriage timing and> nature of Spouses

etc..> > > > At least the other Vargas provide some Valuable insight in to the>

differences in the different areas of lives of twins. if not d9 then> d10 or D12

or D16 or D24 or D30 OR Shatyamsa.> > > > For Example: - Mark Waugh & Steve

Waugh had Career in Similar field> (Cricket) but their Achievements, Span of

Career, Exploits & Talents> were not Identical. i don't have their birth

detials but they may have> same d10 along with same rasi chart ofcourse.> > > >

pl. take it very positively and answer to me for the

benefit of> every body> > > > > > Regards,> > Utpal> > > > Panditji wrote:> >

Namaste Pradeepji ( You deserve the Ji, trust me)> > > > What if the twins have

same navansha or saptamsha ? > > > > Ofcourse I forgot that the sjc parampara

has many versions of> > divisional charts. 3 varieties of navanshas so if the

data does not> > fit, try the different flavor of navansha or saptamsha. Are

there are> > a few versions of rashi charts as well ?> > > > ...> > > > On

4/22/05, vijayadas_pradeep wrote:> > > > > > Dear Panditji> > > > > > Medical

science says average time gap between twins are 15-17 > > > minutes.Thus twins

can be born between 10 minutes as well as 30 > > > minutes.> > > > > > Thus as

you

have said - there can be possibility that twins can have > > > same hora,same

drekkana,same saptamsha and same dashamsha.> > > > > > Can anyone help me in

analysing saptamsha bhavas and dashamsha > > > bhavas here.> > > > > > Thanks>

> > Pradeep> > > > > > vedic astrology, Panditji > > >

wrote:> > > > Namaste,> > > > > > > > Sharmaji of this list had given a chart

of twins a couple of months> > > > back. Both have the same navamsha. If twins

case can be explained > > > with> > > > divisional charts, are you suggesting

that both will get married at> > > > the same time ? Will their spouses nature

will be identical ?> > > > > > > > ...> > > > > > > > On 4/22/05,

Utpal Pathak wrote:> > > > > All respected Luminiaries of Jtotisha &

Philosophy,> > > > > > > > > > I would like to add my 2 cent...> > > > > > > >

> > following argument Appealed me and convinced me about > > > the

'Importance' of> > > > > Varga chart> > > > > > > > > > 1) Each House in Rashi

chart stands for so many matters. how to> > > > > diifferntiate? (pl. i know

karka technology)> > > > > > > > > > 2) If rishi says that d9 is chart for

dharma/spouse, d10 for > > > respect and> > > > > work in , d12 for parents and

so on & so forth then it > > > automatically brings> > > > > the important of

Vargas as 'Charts' and not merely tool to see > > > Vimshopak> > > >

> bal, Vaiseshikamsha etc..> > > > > > > > > > 3) Major difference in lives of

Twins can be most fittingly > > > justied only by> > > > > Difference in Varga

charts.> > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > > > > utpal pathak> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Partha Sarathy wrote:> > > > >

Dear Sourav> > > > > > > > > > That was a brilliant mail.> > > > > I am

especially interested in the Trimsamsa sloka. Could you > > > kindly for the> >

> > > benefit of the readers, explain each individual term and give a > > >

detailed> > > > > interpretation.> >

> > > best wishes> > > > > partha> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On

4/22/05, Sourav Chowdhury wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Hare

Rama Krishna ||> > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear

Pradeep-ji,> > > > > > Namaskar. As per your request, I have reread > > > the >

> > > > > postions of the BPHS which is relevent to your and my > > > arguments

once> > > > > > more so that I am confident in giving this reply. I wish not

to> > > > > > write any more in this subject as it is useless to argue > > >

against ill> > > > > > formed hypotheses, some of which is in your

reply. > > > > > > > > > > > > You wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > "You should

also carefully read all my mails before > > > commenting.Every> > > > > > varga

defined by sage parashara is important - i am only > > > against> > > > > >

varga ''charts''."> > > > > > > > > > > > My argument: I will only use BPHS in

my argument. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Maharshi Parasara (and the rishis of

his era and later eras)> > > > > > wrote in clear, unequivocal but also pithy

form so save space > > > but to> > > > > > deliver the message clearly. So each

word is very relevant and> > > > > > important.Now let us see the arrangement of

chapters in the > > >

BPHS.> > > > > > > > > > > > C.1 - The Creation> > > > > > C.2 - Great

Incarnations of the Lord> > > > > > C.3 - Planetary Characters and Description>

> > > > > C.4 - Zodiacal Signs> > > > > > C.5 - Finding Planetary Positions > >

> > > > C.6 - Special Ascendants> > > > > > C.7 - The Sixteen Divisions of a

Sign> > > > > > C.8 - Divisional Consideration> > > > > > C.9 - Aspects of the

Signs> > > > > > C.10- Surroundings at the Time of Birth> > > > > > C.11- Evils

at Birth> > > > > > C.12- Antidotes for Evil > > > > > > C.13- Judgement of

Houses> > > > > > C.14- Effects of the 1st House> > > > > > C.15- Effects of

the 2nd House>

> > > > > (etc.)> > > > > > > > > > > > From the scheme of things, it is very

clear that Vargas are of > > > prime> > > > > > importance. Explanations are

given for Rasi Chakra Analysis > > > **only > > > > > > after** defining in

details all the sixteen divisions of a > > > sign, the> > > > > > formulation

of these vargas and the presiding deities. This is> > > > > > significant.> > >

> > > > > > > > > You again said:> > > > > > > > > > > > "If you read those

chapters with caution and fresh mind all > > > your > > > > > > doubts will be

cleared. How to analyse Vargas has been clearly> > > > > > explained.Read

vimshopaka strength in BPHS."> > >

> > > > > > > > > Are you implying the Parasara went into all the trouble of > >

> details> > > > > > of vargas and presiding deities just to give us a clue for

> > > > > > Vimshopaka Bala of planets ?? This is a completely mistaken > > >

argument.> > > > > > I will tell you why.> > > > > > > > > > > > BPHS C.7.2-3>

> > > > > > > > > > > Kshetram hora cha dreskaanasturyamsah saptamamsaka |> > >

> > > Navamso dasaamamsascha suryamsah shodasamsaka || > > > > > > Vimsamso

vedavamso bhamsatrimsamsakastatah |> > > > > > khavedamshokhsabedamsah

sasthiamsascha tatah param ||> > > > > > > > > > > > "These vargas are: Griha

(rasi or sign), Hora, Drekkana,> > >

> > > Chaturthamsa, Saptamamsa, Navamamsa, Dasamamsa, Dwadasamamsa, > > > > > >

Shodasamamsa, Vimsamsa, Chaturvimsamsa, Saptavimsamsa, > > > Trimsamsa,> > > >

> > Khavedamsa, Akshavedamsa and Sasthiamsa."> > > > > > > > > > > > Rasi (see

the words Kshetram hora cha ..) is clearly clubbed> > > > > > together with

other vargas. Hence if we treat rasi's as bhavas > > > and > > > > > > perform

bhava analysis, why shouldn't we do the same with other> > > > > > vargas which

are only higher divisions of the zodiac just as > > > rasi> > > > > > also is

?!? Thus Rasi Chart is definitely a divisional chart > > > (called> > > > > >

D-1) and the way it is going to be analysed (from C.13 > > > onwards) will> > >

> > > show us the way other varga charts should be analysed.> > > > > > > > > >

> > I will give you one more indication of the above conclusion:> > > > > > > >

> > > > BPHS C.8.16 (last line)> > > > > > > > > > > > Trimsamsake

vichintyayevamatrapi grihabat smritam || > > > > > > > > > > > > Here the Sage

gives clear instruction that Chaturthamsa, > > > Navamamsa,> > > > > >

Trimsamsa etc. vargas chakras will be studies **like the 12 > > > houses**> > >

> > > in the birth chart (rasi chakra).> > > > > > > > > > > > Thus it is

doubtless that Maharshi indicated that all 16 > > > vargas are > > > > > > to

be analysed as individual "charts" just like the most

> > > popular of> > > > > > them i.e. the rasi varga chart. I hope this expunges

all doubt.> > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Your next argument is trying to show that

varga charts > > > cannot> > > > > > exist because it becomes difficult to

apply bhava > > > significances in> > > > > > varga charts.> > > > > > > > > >

> > You stated:> > > > > > > > > > > > "In bhava analysis - Parashara advises

9th house for father > > > and 4th> > > > > > for mother - This is for rashi

chakra not for vargas. Can you > > > pls > > > > > > tell me what is 4th and

9th houses in Hora?Hora is a division > > > not a> > > > > > chart- so are

other vargas.After seeing 2nd

house matters,one > > > has to> > > > > > see the planets Hora placement.BPHS

explains the strength of > > > planets> > > > > > in Hora." > > > > > > > > > >

> > BPHS C.8.37-38> > > > > > > > > > > > Tanurdhanam cha sahaje

bandhuputrarayastatha |> > > > > > Yuvatirandhradharmashakarmalabhabyayah

kramat ||> > > > > > Sanshepenaitaduditamanyad budhyayanusaaratah |> > > > > >

Kinchivishesam vakshyami yatha brahmamukhaachhrutam || > > > > > > > > > > > >

" Tanu, Dhana, Sahaja, Bandhu, Putra, Ari, Yuvati, Randhra, > > > Dharma,> > >

> > > Karma, Laabha and Vyaya are in order the names of the 12 > > > houses.> >

> > > > Other things than these should be

understood according to > > > one's own> > > > > > intelligence. Now I will try

to tell you some new things which > > > I> > > > > > heard from the speech of

Lord Brahma"> > > > > > > > > > > > Carefully read this part ** Other things

than these should be> > > > > > understood according to one's own intelligence

** Thus in each > > > > > > divisional chart each house can potentially mean

different > > > things> > > > > > depending on the particular varga chart in

question !!> > > > > > > > > > > > This responds to your second argument. Refer

to Message # > > > 55218 by> > > > > > Guru Narasimha-ji for further

understanding what house can > > > mean what > > > > > > in a particular

Varga. Parasari Hora Chart has two houses only.> > > > > > Infact this is an

exceptional chart in that sense and thus you> > > > > > cannot really ask for

the significance for the 4H or 9H as > > > they dont> > > > > > exist in this

particular chart!! In case of other kinds of > > > Hora > > > > > > charts like

Kashinatha Hora, 4H can mean sukha regarding > > > wealth and> > > > > > 9H can

mean fortune regarding wealth, the dharma followed in > > > earning> > > > > >

wealth or the guidence (or mis-guidence) received in earning > > > wealth> > >

> > > of things of sustenance etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > As per Parasara, you

should intelligently ask and assign the> > > > > > significance of a particular

house in a Varga Chakra. Note that> > > > > > Lagna in that Chakra represents

the native in the particular > > > aspect> > > > > > of life this Varga Chakra

is Drawn. Ex. D-10 is a career Varga > > > > > > chakra and La in D-10 shows

the native himself in the field of> > > > > > career. 9H here will show the

nature of guidence and > > > relationship> > > > > > with the guide (read

'boss' or 'authority') in the career > > > field.> > > > > > I ask you to

exercise your intelligence and derive the > > > significance > > > > > > of

each divisional chart. It will help you immensely and show > > > you> > > > > >

how deep the above quoted statement of Maharsi truely is !!> > > > > > > > > > >

> 3. I will end

my prolonged monologue by answering your last > > > argument.> > > > > > > > > >

> > You said: > > > > > > > > > > > > "So is [sic, 'in'] shastyamsha - the bhava

whose lord in > > > benefic> > > > > > shstyamsha willflourish - where is this

bhava found? In Rashi > > > chakra> > > > > > or shastyamsha? Ask this last

question and you will not have > > > anymore > > > > > > doubts."> > > > > > >

> > > > > The referred statement in BPHS is C.8.6 If you see the context > > >

of> > > > > > what Maharshi was talking about in that portion you will see > >

> that he> > > > > > was speaking about what various vargas signify. In the end

he > > > says > >

> > > > this statement. Your translation of the statement is > > > misleading.

I> > > > > > will take what Sri G. C. Sharma has given "There is no doubt > > >

in the> > > > > > destruction of the house whose lord is in a malefic > > >

Sashtiamsa" This > > > > > > clearly means that no matter what divisional chart

you > > > consider, if> > > > > > any house lord in any such chart is in a bad

Sashtiamsa (read > > > ruled> > > > > > by a malefic deity), that house in that

varga chart is > > > definitely> > > > > > going to suffer. He didnt say if it

is Rasi chart, thereby > > > > > > indicating any divisional chart.> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hope this discussion helps. It doesn't matter if I am new to

> > > this> > > > > > discussion. I need not read all your previous e-mails. You

> > > seem to> > > > > > be too attached to your own line of thinking and

shutting away > > > > > > others. It's best to challenge your own self in

understanding > > > rather> > > > > > than jump up and challange other's

understandings especially of> > > > > > the learned and experienced like Guru

Narasimha-ji.> > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > > > > > > > Sourav > >

> > > >> > > > > > > >>

===================================================================> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep"> > >

> > > wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear shri Saurav> > > > > > >> > > > > >

> You can address me without a ji.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I think you are

new to this series of discussion on > > > vargas.It has> > > > > > been> > > >

> > > going on since long.More than a year.Shri Narasimha knows > > > what i

am> > > > > > > saying.Also this thread started when shri Narasimha had > > >

analysed> > > > > > new> > > > > > > popes chart without giving importance to

Rashi chart.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > You should also carefully read all my

mails before > > > commenting.Every> > > > > >

> varga defined by sage parashara is important - i am only > > > against> > > >

> > varga> > > > > > > ''charts''.If you read those chapters with caution and

fresh > > > mind -> > > > > > > all your doubts will be cleared.> > > > > > >

How to analyse Vargas has been clearly explained.Read > > > vimshopaka> > > > >

> > strength in BPHS.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > In bhava analysis - Parashara

advises 9th house for father > > > and 4th> > > > > > for> > > > > > > mother -

This is for rashi chakra not for vargas. Can you > > > pls tell> > > > > > me >

> > > > > > what is 4th and 9th houses in Hora?Hora is a division not a > > >

chart->

> > > > > so> > > > > > > are other vargas.After seeing 2nd house matters,one

has to > > > see the> > > > > > > planets Hora placement.BPHS explains the

strength of planets > > > in > > > > > > Hora.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > So is

shastyamsha - the bhava whose lord in benefic > > > shstyamsha will> > > > > >

> flourish - where is this bhava found? In Rashi chakra or> > > > > >

shastyamsha?> > > > > > > Ask this last question and you will not have anymore

doubts. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks> > > > > > > Pradeep> > > > > > >> >

> > > > >> > > > > > > --- In

vedic astrology, "Sourav Chowdhury"> > > > > > > wrote: > > > >

> > > >> > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >

Dear Pradeep-ji,> > > > > > > > Namaskar. Your arguments are ill founded and

you> > > > > > > > haven't carefully read Guru Narasimha-ji's comments. > > > >

> > > >> > > > > > > > 1. He never undermined the need to analyse rasi chart. >

> > Infact he> > > > > > > > always say in this mp3 lessons that if Rasi chart

doesn't > > > allow> > > > > > an> > > > > > > > event, it will not happen even

if indications are there in > > > the > > > > > > >

> higher divisional chart. If you have read BPHS, Maharshi > > > Parasara> > > >

> > > > has first described 16 divisions of signs (i.e. effectively> > > > > >

defining> > > > > > > > the varga charts) and then went on into bhava analysis.

> > > Why so > > > > > > much> > > > > > > > importance to varga charts by the

Sage himself ?!?> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > 2. Rasi chart's houses have so

many significances, the > > > same 4H> > > > > > shows> > > > > > > > motherly

relationship, house, heart, vehicles happiness > > > and so > > > > > > on.> >

> > > > > > If you try to get all predictions done by rasi chart and > > > then

go>

> > > > > > > into vargas for a secondary check, you might be mislead. > > >

The> > > > > > ideal> > > > > > > > is to mix and match both of them.> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 3. There is the beautiful example of twins who are born >

> > very> > > > > > close> > > > > > > > in time to each other and have

completely different > > > capabilities> > > > > > and> > > > > > > >

personalities. You can read the details that Guru > > > Narasimha-ji > > > > >

> has> > > > > > > > posted in his website www.vedicastrologer.com . Kindly > >

> read it> > > > > > > > before making further comments.> > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > I like to see many schools of thought. It is beneficial to >

> > > > > learning.> > > > > > > > But when arguments are made to a Guru's

remark for the > > > same of> > > > > > > > argument, I think it doesn't stand

good for the purpose of> > > > > > learning.> > > > > > > > I hope I will be

taken based on what I wrote and meant and > > > not > > > > > > > > merely as

blind defender of faith in my Guru.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Regards,> > >

> > > > >> > > > > > > > Sourav> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > >>

=====================================================================> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > vedic astrology,

"vijayadas_pradeep"> > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >

Dear Narasimha ji> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > You are very right in

pointing the imperfections.Now you > > > have> > > > > > said> > > > > > > > >

Rashi chakra is very simple - Atleast not for me.I have > > > not> > > > > >

even > > > > > > > > > understood 10 % of the basics on how to analyse rashi >

> > chakra> > > > > > > > > properly.It will

take many years to master.Also on one > > > hand> > > > > > you> > > > > > > >

say> > > > > > > > > combination of Rashi chakra with Vargas and on the other >

> > hand - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no Main chart.If rashi chakra

is not the main > > > why do> > > > > > you> > > > > > > > > want to use them

in combination with Vargas?.> > > > > > > > > Also if Rashi chakra is not the

main why do you give so > > > many > > > > > > yogas> > > > > > > > > in your

software based on Rashi chakra - pertaining to > > > all> > > > > > > > >

aspects.If Rashi chakra is just for physique - how will > > > we

see> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > qualities of Mahapurusha from the Rashi

chakra? How will > > > we > > > > > > see> > > > > > > > > Saraswati yoga - the

yoga for learning.If 10 th house > > > and 10th> > > > > > > > lord> > > > > > >

> > in Rashi chakra is physical ,what is 10th ''house'' and > > > lord> > > > >

> in> > > > > > > > > dashamsha. > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > >

> > > Thanks> > > > > > > > > Pradeep> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > --- In

vedic astrology, "Narasimha > > > P.V.R.

Rao"> > > > > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends,> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > > > I will quickly try to respond to multiple mails on > > >

multiple> > > > > > > > lists. > > > > > > > > > These days I've been really

busy and cannot give a more> > > > > > detailed> > > > > > > > > reply. I may

not actually be able to give any further > > > replies> > > > > > on> > > > > >

> > > this thread.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you explain why

you have given TZ 2 for Marktl,> > > > > > > > Germany?> > > > > > > >

> At 12 degrees> > > > > > > > > > > East from Greenwich it is in TZ 1.> > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gordon, I may be wrong. If the timezone should be

1:00,> > > > > > please> > > > > > > > > change the birthtime to 6:33:40 am to

5:33:40 am.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Bottomline is: I did not know

the time and rectified > > > lagna > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > rasi> > > > > >

> > > and various divisions by retro-fitting.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >

> > > You wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > Interestingly, it is now Mars antardasa

in

Venus > > > mahadasa! > > > > > > > > > > > Please check, it is Sat Mahadasa and

Moon Antardasa.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Praveen, you are right.

There is a bug in my software > > > in the> > > > > > > > > second cycle of

Shashtihayani dasa. Thanks for pointing > > > this > > > > > > out.> > > > > >

> > > I'll fix this.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Technically, BTW,

whether we can use Shashtihayani dasa> > > > > > after> > > > > > > > the> > >

> > > > > > age of 60 has passed is debatable. The same holds for > > > other >

> > > > > dasas.> > >

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > It has been observed that the Rashi chakra

was not > > > given> > > > > > due> > > > > > > > > respect> > > > > > > > > >

> during your analysis.Results were decided on the > > > basis of > > > > > > >

> varga -> > > > > > > > > > > which is derived from Rashi chakra.> > > > > > >

> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > As thousands of students are observing this > > >

analysis - Pls> > > > > > > > make> > > > > > > > > it> > > > > > > > > > >

clear is it possible to deduce results from varga of > > > a> > > > >

> > > > planet/lagna> > > > > > > > > > > alone.When Panditji had questioned a

similar > > > analysis on> > > > > > > > > saptamsha - > > > > > > > > > > >

One could find Ms.Sarbani Sarkar rushing in and> > > > > > correcting -> > > >

> > > > > > > Significance of Rashi chakra.I would be pleased to > > > know if>

> > > > > you> > > > > > > > > hold a> > > > > > > > > > > different position. >

> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Pradeep, because you asked, I will clarify

MY position.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > For perfection, multiple

divisional charts

should be > > > judged> > > > > > > > > together. We are often doing imperfect

astrology for the > > > sake > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > simplicity and

look at only one chart. The best answer > > > is not> > > > > > any> > > > > >

> > > single chart, but a combination of charts.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >

> > > > But, if I have to choose a single chart, I'll choose > > > the > > > >

> > > > > applicable varga (e.g. D-10 for career, D-24 for > > > education> > >

> > > etc)> > > > > > > > > rather than the rasi chart. Though imperfect, it

works > > > way> > > > > > better> > > >

> > > > > for me than rasi chart alone.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >

While combining rasi with divisions leads to better > > > results,> > > > > >

it> > > > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > still away from perfection. Perfection

can come only when> > > > > > > > > shashtyamsa (D-60) is understood correctly

and used. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > When Parasara defined the

matters seen in various > > > divisions> > > > > > > > (e.g.> > > > > > > > >

physical matters in rasi, financial matters in D-2,> > > > > > professional> >

> > > > > > > matters in D-10), he said that

"everything" is seen in D-> > > 60. > > > > > > Also> > > > > > > > in> > > > >

> > > > vimsopaka bala computation of dasa varga, D-60 gets a > > > higher> > >

> > > > > > weightage than rasi and navamsa combined!> > > > > > > > > >> > > >

> > > > > > I am fully convinced that the Jyotish is an imperfect > > > > > >

subject> > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > > just an art as long as one ignores

D-60, which was given > > > so> > > > > > much> > > > > > > > > importance by

Parasara. Jyotish can be established as a> > > > > > science> > > > > > > >

only> > > > > > >

> > when we master D-60.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Kalyan verma

states - one who is not considering the> > > > > > vargas> > > > > > > > >

cannot> > > > > > > > > > > make good predictions.What does this mean? Doesn't

> > > it mean> > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > > there> > > > > > > > > > >

is someother place - (other than vargas) - to read > > > the> > > > > > > >

results?> > > > > > > > > Which> > > > > > > > > > > is this other MAIN place?

Is it not the Rashi > > > chakra? > > > > > > Division> > > > > > > > by>

> > > > > > > > > > meaning should have a main to get divided.So which > > > is

this> > > > > > > > main?> > > > > > > > > If we> > > > > > > > > > > consider

Rashi chakra as the first division - then > > > where > > > > > > is> > > > > >

> > the> > > > > > > > > main?> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Rasi is a

divisional chart too. It is one of the vargas> > > > > > > > according> > > > >

> > > > to Parasara.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing

called main and secondary. If you ask > > > me to> > > > >

> > > pick> > > > > > > > > the most important divisional chart, I'll pick D-60.

As I> > > > > > > > mentioned> > > > > > > > > above, Parasara said everything

can be seen in D-60 and > > > gave > > > > > > it> > > > > > > > more> > > > >

> > > > weightage than rasi and navamsa combined, when defining > > > dasa> > >

> > > varga> > > > > > > > > vimsopaka bala.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >

> > Dear Pradeep,> > > > > > > > > > > Correct ! If we apply common sense, we

can see > > > Vargas > > > > > > repeating> > > > > > > > > > > with lagna as

it

is a few hours before. Only the Moon> > > > > > changes> > > > > > > > its> > >

> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Vargas do not exactly repeat. Different

divisions have > > > > > > different> > > > > > > > > patterns. The navamsa,

dasamsa, vimsamsa, chaturvimsamsa > > > and> > > > > > > > > shashtyamsa

combination I identified in Aries rasi lagna > > > does> > > > > > not> > > > >

> > > > repeat in Pisces rasi or Taurus rasi. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >

> > > position fast. Then, touchstone of any predictive> > > > > > principle is>

> > > > > > > > advance> > > >

> > > > > > > predictions, which they always elude. Veteran > > > astrologers >

> > > > > of> > > > > > > > > Jyotish> > > > > > > > > > > Group like Shri

K.N.Rao and Satya Prakash ji too > > > advised> > > > > > them,> > > > > > > >

> but> > > > > > > > > > > of no avail. A whole generation is being misguided.

> > > Most > > > > > > > > > unfortunate !> > > > > > > > > > > But then, as

Shri K.N.Rao says, it is the will of > > > the God.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >

> > > > > It is quite presumptuous of some to believe that "a > > > whole > > >

> > > > > >

generation is being misguided". Whether a generation is > > > being> > > > > > >

> > misguided or guided in the correct direction to fully > > > discover> > > >

> > the> > > > > > > > > teachings of maharshis and establish astrology as a >

> > science is > > > > > > > > > something that the coming generations will

judge. > > > Neither I> > > > > > nor> > > > > > > > you> > > > > > > > > are

in a position to pre-judge it.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Let me do

my work and you do your work. There is no > > > need to > > > > > > talk> > > >

> > > > > about misguided generations.> > > >

> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > [Visti] Parasara states that if eighth lord is

well > > > placed> > > > > > or> > > > > > > > > even exalted,> > > > > > > > >

> > then longevity will be long - This is also applied > > > in the > > > > > >

> > method> > > > > > > > > of three> > > > > > > > > > > pairs. You may argue

that the eighth lord when > > > strong will> > > > > > > > cause> > > > > > > >

> problems,> > > > > > > > > > > but Harihara states in Prasna Marga, that when

the > > > planets > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > > strong they> >

> > > > > > > > > will give their auspicious results - he states that > > >

this> > > > > > > > applies> > > > > > > > > to both> > > > > > > > > > > natal

and prasna charts. Further being Vara lord and > > > in > > > > > > the> > > > >

> > > > fifth house, it> > > > > > > > > > > means the digestive fire is

excellent and excellent > > > health> > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > promised.

This> > > > > > > > > > > is not the problem.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > Visti, I do not look at only the placement of vaaresha > > > but> > > > >

>

also> > > > > > > > > the ownership of the vaaresha. If the weekday lord in a> >

> > > > muhurta> > > > > > > > > happens to be randhresha, I do not consider it

> > > auspicious. > > > > > > This is> > > > > > > > > just my view and not

explicitly granted by classics. If > > > you> > > > > > have a> > > > > > > > >

different view, I can respect it.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >

[Visti] What is your current view on the use of the > > > > > > arudha> > > > >

> > > > lagna in the> > > > > > > > > > > calculation of vaisheshikamsa?> > > >

> > > > > >> > > >

> > > > > > Hmm, I don't have any view. I spent so much time > > > mulling> > >

> > > over> > > > > > > > > Parasara's vaiseshikamsa clause "swaaroodhaat

kendra > > > > > > naathaanaam> > > > > > > > > vargaah graahyaah sudheemataa",

but could not come to a> > > > > > conclusion.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >

> > When I wrote that Sun is in Brahmalokamsa in Pope > > > Benedict> > > > > >

XVI's > > > > > > > > > chart, I did not use the "swaaroodhaat" criterion. I >

> > used only> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > standard definition and ignoring

the additional clause.> > > > > > > > > >>

> > > > > > > > > When Lord Dakshinamurthy blesses me, I will understand > > >

this > > > > > > > > clause> > > > > > > > > correctly. When I do, I will share

my understanding with > > > all.> > > > > > For> > > > > > > > > now, I have no

view.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > [Visti] In concur with your

choice for the popes > > > chart - > > > > > > good> > > > > > > > >

rectification.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much Visti.

I am glad a Jyotish scholar > > > of> > > > > > your> > > > > > > > > knowledge

and abilities has

concurred with my > > > rectification. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >

May Jupiter's light shine on us,> > > > > > > > > > Narasimha> > > > > > > > >

>> > > > >> > >> ---------------------------->

> > > > > ---> > > > > > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3): > > > > > >

http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net> > > > > > > > > > Free Jyotish software

(Windows):> > > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org > > > > > > > > > > SJC

website: http://www.SriJagannath.org> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > >>

----------------------------> > > > > > ---> >

> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor

----------------> > > ----~--> > > > > > > Has someone you know been affected

by illness or disease?> > > > > > Network for Good is THE place to support

health awareness > > > efforts!> > > > > >> > >>

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Jagannathan .

April 23, 2005

Dear Jagannathan ji

Thanks for your wishes and let true knowledge unfold.

Respect

Pradeep

vedic astrology, kapisthalam jagannathan

<jagannathankr> wrote:

> Dear Sir,

> i am happy to read your kind and loving mail.you are all men of

knowledge and skills.You are real seekers.I have no doubt.I pray to

God for your success.

> Just like anyother person,I am attracted by the great works of

Rishis and particularly the Nadi Grandhas which seem to be

mysterious .Alas, we lost our rich heritage and what we have now left

with us ,seems to be only bones and ashes of the past.

> Regards,

> jagannathan.

>

> vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:

>

> Dear shri Utpal

>

> As Jagannathan ji has mentioned there are many things which cannot be

> explained without experience and sadhana.For this we have to study and

> persevere for years.There are no short cuts.If we cannot understand -

> it does not mean we can use bhavas everywhere.

>

> If the twins are taken out in emergency by ceasarian section then it

> is even possible to have same shastiamsha.

>

> I hope people will not bring in bhavas for nadiamshas.

> Navamsha has significance due to concurrence with nakshathra

> padas.Vedic astrology is rooted in nakshathras.It is also a division.

>

> Dear Jagannathan ji

>

> Your posts and writings are very balanced.I respect your open view.I

> never said my view is correct.I am just asking questions.

> Even the lord is learning.Avataras of bhagavan too were subjected to

> karma and results.It is this continuous learning that keeps the

> universe alive.

>

> Respect

> Pradeep

>

> vedic astrology, kapisthalam jagannathan

> wrote:

> > Dear Sir,

> > I have been reading your kind mails.

> > Suppose two or more than two are born at almost the same time ,date

> ,place etc ,may be to different parents, how are we account for

> differences amongst them astrologically.let alone the question of

> twins.?I wish some astrologer explains.

> > Regards,

> > jagannathan.

> >

> > Utpal Pathak wrote:

> > Dear Pandit ji & Pradeep ji (You both deserve to be JI for Me)

> >

> > Are we not casting 'Navmansha Chart' and give importance (pl. read

> Much) to it. if D9 Chart, being a Varga chart can be analysed with so

> much intrest in judging any chart then the same logic should also

> apply to other Varga Charts.

> >

> > You asked following things

> > > > Both have the same navamsha. If twins case can be explained

> > > with

> > > > divisional charts, are you suggesting that both will get

married at

> > > > the same time ? Will their spouses nature will be identical ?

> >

> > I am really surprised about your question at the same time I am very

> very curious to know the answer for you. Without not taking any help

> from any other Vargas and just by Looking the same Navmansha & Rashi,

> how you convincingly suggest to find out the marriage timing and

> nature of Spouses etc..

> >

> > At least the other Vargas provide some Valuable insight in to the

> differences in the different areas of lives of twins. if not d9 then

> d10 or D12 or D16 or D24 or D30 OR Shatyamsa.

> >

> > For Example: - Mark Waugh & Steve Waugh had Career in Similar field

> (Cricket) but their Achievements, Span of Career, Exploits & Talents

> were not Identical. i don't have their birth detials but they may have

> same d10 along with same rasi chart ofcourse.

> >

> > pl. take it very positively and answer to me for the benefit of

> every body

> >

> > Regards,

> > Utpal

> >

> > Panditji wrote:

> > Namaste Pradeepji ( You deserve the Ji, trust me)

> >

> > What if the twins have same navansha or saptamsha ?

> >

> > Ofcourse I forgot that the sjc parampara has many versions of

> > divisional charts. 3 varieties of navanshas so if the data does not

> > fit, try the different flavor of navansha or saptamsha. Are there are

> > a few versions of rashi charts as well ?

> >

> > ...

> >

> > On 4/22/05, vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Panditji

> > >

> > > Medical science says average time gap between twins are 15-17

> > > minutes.Thus twins can be born between 10 minutes as well as 30

> > > minutes.

> > >

> > > Thus as you have said - there can be possibility that twins can

have

> > > same hora,same drekkana,same saptamsha and same dashamsha.

> > >

> > > Can anyone help me in analysing saptamsha bhavas and dashamsha

> > > bhavas here.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, Panditji

> > > wrote:

> > > > Namaste,

> > > >

> > > > Sharmaji of this list had given a chart of twins a couple of

months

> > > > back. Both have the same navamsha. If twins case can be explained

> > > with

> > > > divisional charts, are you suggesting that both will get

married at

> > > > the same time ? Will their spouses nature will be identical ?

> > > >

> > > > ...

> > > >

> > > > On 4/22/05, Utpal Pathak wrote:

> > > > > All respected Luminiaries of Jtotisha & Philosophy,

> > > > >

> > > > > I would like to add my 2 cent...

> > > > >

> > > > > following argument Appealed me and convinced me about

> > > the 'Importance' of

> > > > > Varga chart

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) Each House in Rashi chart stands for so many matters. how to

> > > > > diifferntiate? (pl. i know karka technology)

> > > > >

> > > > > 2) If rishi says that d9 is chart for dharma/spouse, d10 for

> > > respect and

> > > > > work in , d12 for parents and so on & so forth then it

> > > automatically brings

> > > > > the important of Vargas as 'Charts' and not merely tool to see

> > > Vimshopak

> > > > > bal, Vaiseshikamsha etc..

> > > > >

> > > > > 3) Major difference in lives of Twins can be most fittingly

> > > justied only by

> > > > > Difference in Varga charts.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > >

> > > > > utpal pathak

> > > > >

> > > > > Partha Sarathy

> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Sourav

> > > > >

> > > > > That was a brilliant mail.

> > > > > I am especially interested in the Trimsamsa sloka. Could you

> > > kindly for the

> > > > > benefit of the readers, explain each individual term and give a

> > > detailed

> > > > > interpretation.

> > > > > best wishes

> > > > > partha

> > > > >

> > > > > On 4/22/05, Sourav Chowdhury wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||

> > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Pradeep-ji,

> > > > > > Namaskar. As per your request, I have reread

> > > the

> > > > > > postions of the BPHS which is relevent to your and my

> > > arguments once

> > > > > > more so that I am confident in giving this reply. I wish

not to

> > > > > > write any more in this subject as it is useless to argue

> > > against ill

> > > > > > formed hypotheses, some of which is in your reply.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "You should also carefully read all my mails before

> > > commenting.Every

> > > > > > varga defined by sage parashara is important - i am only

> > > against

> > > > > > varga ''charts''."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My argument: I will only use BPHS in my argument.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. Maharshi Parasara (and the rishis of his era and later

eras)

> > > > > > wrote in clear, unequivocal but also pithy form so save space

> > > but to

> > > > > > deliver the message clearly. So each word is very relevant and

> > > > > > important.Now let us see the arrangement of chapters in the

> > > BPHS.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > C.1 - The Creation

> > > > > > C.2 - Great Incarnations of the Lord

> > > > > > C.3 - Planetary Characters and Description

> > > > > > C.4 - Zodiacal Signs

> > > > > > C.5 - Finding Planetary Positions

> > > > > > C.6 - Special Ascendants

> > > > > > C.7 - The Sixteen Divisions of a Sign

> > > > > > C.8 - Divisional Consideration

> > > > > > C.9 - Aspects of the Signs

> > > > > > C.10- Surroundings at the Time of Birth

> > > > > > C.11- Evils at Birth

> > > > > > C.12- Antidotes for Evil

> > > > > > C.13- Judgement of Houses

> > > > > > C.14- Effects of the 1st House

> > > > > > C.15- Effects of the 2nd House

> > > > > > (etc.)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > From the scheme of things, it is very clear that Vargas

are of

> > > prime

> > > > > > importance. Explanations are given for Rasi Chakra Analysis

> > > **only

> > > > > > after** defining in details all the sixteen divisions of a

> > > sign, the

> > > > > > formulation of these vargas and the presiding deities. This is

> > > > > > significant.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You again said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "If you read those chapters with caution and fresh mind all

> > > your

> > > > > > doubts will be cleared. How to analyse Vargas has been clearly

> > > > > > explained.Read vimshopaka strength in BPHS."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Are you implying the Parasara went into all the trouble of

> > > details

> > > > > > of vargas and presiding deities just to give us a clue for

> > > > > > Vimshopaka Bala of planets ?? This is a completely mistaken

> > > argument.

> > > > > > I will tell you why.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > BPHS C.7.2-3

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Kshetram hora cha dreskaanasturyamsah saptamamsaka |

> > > > > > Navamso dasaamamsascha suryamsah shodasamsaka ||

> > > > > > Vimsamso vedavamso bhamsatrimsamsakastatah |

> > > > > > khavedamshokhsabedamsah sasthiamsascha tatah param ||

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "These vargas are: Griha (rasi or sign), Hora, Drekkana,

> > > > > > Chaturthamsa, Saptamamsa, Navamamsa, Dasamamsa, Dwadasamamsa,

> > > > > > Shodasamamsa, Vimsamsa, Chaturvimsamsa, Saptavimsamsa,

> > > Trimsamsa,

> > > > > > Khavedamsa, Akshavedamsa and Sasthiamsa."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rasi (see the words Kshetram hora cha ..) is clearly clubbed

> > > > > > together with other vargas. Hence if we treat rasi's as

bhavas

> > > and

> > > > > > perform bhava analysis, why shouldn't we do the same with

other

> > > > > > vargas which are only higher divisions of the zodiac just as

> > > rasi

> > > > > > also is ?!? Thus Rasi Chart is definitely a divisional chart

> > > (called

> > > > > > D-1) and the way it is going to be analysed (from C.13

> > > onwards) will

> > > > > > show us the way other varga charts should be analysed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I will give you one more indication of the above conclusion:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > BPHS C.8.16 (last line)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Trimsamsake vichintyayevamatrapi grihabat smritam ||

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Here the Sage gives clear instruction that Chaturthamsa,

> > > Navamamsa,

> > > > > > Trimsamsa etc. vargas chakras will be studies **like the 12

> > > houses**

> > > > > > in the birth chart (rasi chakra).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thus it is doubtless that Maharshi indicated that all 16

> > > vargas are

> > > > > > to be analysed as individual "charts" just like the most

> > > popular of

> > > > > > them i.e. the rasi varga chart. I hope this expunges all

doubt.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2. Your next argument is trying to show that varga charts

> > > cannot

> > > > > > exist because it becomes difficult to apply bhava

> > > significances in

> > > > > > varga charts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You stated:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "In bhava analysis - Parashara advises 9th house for father

> > > and 4th

> > > > > > for mother - This is for rashi chakra not for vargas. Can you

> > > pls

> > > > > > tell me what is 4th and 9th houses in Hora?Hora is a division

> > > not a

> > > > > > chart- so are other vargas.After seeing 2nd house matters,one

> > > has to

> > > > > > see the planets Hora placement.BPHS explains the strength of

> > > planets

> > > > > > in Hora."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > BPHS C.8.37-38

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Tanurdhanam cha sahaje bandhuputrarayastatha |

> > > > > > Yuvatirandhradharmashakarmalabhabyayah kramat ||

> > > > > > Sanshepenaitaduditamanyad budhyayanusaaratah |

> > > > > > Kinchivishesam vakshyami yatha brahmamukhaachhrutam ||

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Tanu, Dhana, Sahaja, Bandhu, Putra, Ari, Yuvati, Randhra,

> > > Dharma,

> > > > > > Karma, Laabha and Vyaya are in order the names of the 12

> > > houses.

> > > > > > Other things than these should be understood according to

> > > one's own

> > > > > > intelligence. Now I will try to tell you some new things

which

> > > I

> > > > > > heard from the speech of Lord Brahma"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Carefully read this part ** Other things than these should be

> > > > > > understood according to one's own intelligence ** Thus in

each

> > > > > > divisional chart each house can potentially mean different

> > > things

> > > > > > depending on the particular varga chart in question !!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This responds to your second argument. Refer to Message #

> > > 55218 by

> > > > > > Guru Narasimha-ji for further understanding what house can

> > > mean what

> > > > > > in a particular Varga. Parasari Hora Chart has two houses

only.

> > > > > > Infact this is an exceptional chart in that sense and thus you

> > > > > > cannot really ask for the significance for the 4H or 9H as

> > > they dont

> > > > > > exist in this particular chart!! In case of other kinds of

> > > Hora

> > > > > > charts like Kashinatha Hora, 4H can mean sukha regarding

> > > wealth and

> > > > > > 9H can mean fortune regarding wealth, the dharma followed in

> > > earning

> > > > > > wealth or the guidence (or mis-guidence) received in earning

> > > wealth

> > > > > > of things of sustenance etc.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As per Parasara, you should intelligently ask and assign the

> > > > > > significance of a particular house in a Varga Chakra. Note

that

> > > > > > Lagna in that Chakra represents the native in the particular

> > > aspect

> > > > > > of life this Varga Chakra is Drawn. Ex. D-10 is a career

Varga

> > > > > > chakra and La in D-10 shows the native himself in the field of

> > > > > > career. 9H here will show the nature of guidence and

> > > relationship

> > > > > > with the guide (read 'boss' or 'authority') in the career

> > > field.

> > > > > > I ask you to exercise your intelligence and derive the

> > > significance

> > > > > > of each divisional chart. It will help you immensely and show

> > > you

> > > > > > how deep the above quoted statement of Maharsi truely is !!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3. I will end my prolonged monologue by answering your last

> > > argument.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "So is [sic, 'in'] shastyamsha - the bhava whose lord in

> > > benefic

> > > > > > shstyamsha willflourish - where is this bhava found? In Rashi

> > > chakra

> > > > > > or shastyamsha? Ask this last question and you will not have

> > > anymore

> > > > > > doubts."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The referred statement in BPHS is C.8.6 If you see the

context

> > > of

> > > > > > what Maharshi was talking about in that portion you will see

> > > that he

> > > > > > was speaking about what various vargas signify. In the end he

> > > says

> > > > > > this statement. Your translation of the statement is

> > > misleading. I

> > > > > > will take what Sri G. C. Sharma has given "There is no doubt

> > > in the

> > > > > > destruction of the house whose lord is in a malefic

> > > Sashtiamsa" This

> > > > > > clearly means that no matter what divisional chart you

> > > consider, if

> > > > > > any house lord in any such chart is in a bad Sashtiamsa (read

> > > ruled

> > > > > > by a malefic deity), that house in that varga chart is

> > > definitely

> > > > > > going to suffer. He didnt say if it is Rasi chart, thereby

> > > > > > indicating any divisional chart.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hope this discussion helps. It doesn't matter if I am new to

> > > this

> > > > > > discussion. I need not read all your previous e-mails. You

> > > seem to

> > > > > > be too attached to your own line of thinking and shutting

away

> > > > > > others. It's best to challenge your own self in understanding

> > > rather

> > > > > > than jump up and challange other's understandings

especially of

> > > > > > the learned and experienced like Guru Narasimha-ji.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sourav

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > ===================================================================

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep"

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear shri Saurav

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You can address me without a ji.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I think you are new to this series of discussion on

> > > vargas.It has

> > > > > > been

> > > > > > > going on since long.More than a year.Shri Narasimha knows

> > > what i am

> > > > > > > saying.Also this thread started when shri Narasimha had

> > > analysed

> > > > > > new

> > > > > > > popes chart without giving importance to Rashi chart.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You should also carefully read all my mails before

> > > commenting.Every

> > > > > > > varga defined by sage parashara is important - i am only

> > > against

> > > > > > varga

> > > > > > > ''charts''.If you read those chapters with caution and

fresh

> > > mind -

> > > > > > > all your doubts will be cleared.

> > > > > > > How to analyse Vargas has been clearly explained.Read

> > > vimshopaka

> > > > > > > strength in BPHS.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In bhava analysis - Parashara advises 9th house for father

> > > and 4th

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > mother - This is for rashi chakra not for vargas. Can you

> > > pls tell

> > > > > > me

> > > > > > > what is 4th and 9th houses in Hora?Hora is a division not a

> > > chart-

> > > > > > so

> > > > > > > are other vargas.After seeing 2nd house matters,one has to

> > > see the

> > > > > > > planets Hora placement.BPHS explains the strength of

planets

> > > in

> > > > > > Hora.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So is shastyamsha - the bhava whose lord in benefic

> > > shstyamsha will

> > > > > > > flourish - where is this bhava found? In Rashi chakra or

> > > > > > shastyamsha?

> > > > > > > Ask this last question and you will not have anymore

doubts.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Sourav Chowdhury"

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep-ji,

> > > > > > > > Namaskar. Your arguments are ill founded and you

> > > > > > > > haven't carefully read Guru Narasimha-ji's comments.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1. He never undermined the need to analyse rasi chart.

> > > Infact he

> > > > > > > > always say in this mp3 lessons that if Rasi chart doesn't

> > > allow

> > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > event, it will not happen even if indications are

there in

> > > the

> > > > > > > > higher divisional chart. If you have read BPHS, Maharshi

> > > Parasara

> > > > > > > > has first described 16 divisions of signs (i.e.

effectively

> > > > > > defining

> > > > > > > > the varga charts) and then went on into bhava analysis.

> > > Why so

> > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > importance to varga charts by the Sage himself ?!?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 2. Rasi chart's houses have so many significances, the

> > > same 4H

> > > > > > shows

> > > > > > > > motherly relationship, house, heart, vehicles happiness

> > > and so

> > > > > > on.

> > > > > > > > If you try to get all predictions done by rasi chart and

> > > then go

> > > > > > > > into vargas for a secondary check, you might be mislead.

> > > The

> > > > > > ideal

> > > > > > > > is to mix and match both of them.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 3. There is the beautiful example of twins who are born

> > > very

> > > > > > close

> > > > > > > > in time to each other and have completely different

> > > capabilities

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > personalities. You can read the details that Guru

> > > Narasimha-ji

> > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > posted in his website www.vedicastrologer.com . Kindly

> > > read it

> > > > > > > > before making further comments.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I like to see many schools of thought. It is

beneficial to

> > > > > > learning.

> > > > > > > > But when arguments are made to a Guru's remark for the

> > > same of

> > > > > > > > argument, I think it doesn't stand good for the purpose of

> > > > > > learning.

> > > > > > > > I hope I will be taken based on what I wrote and meant

and

> > > not

> > > > > > > > merely as blind defender of faith in my Guru.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sourav

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

=====================================================================

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > vedic astrology,

"vijayadas_pradeep"

> > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You are very right in pointing the imperfections.Now

you

> > > have

> > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > Rashi chakra is very simple - Atleast not for me.I have

> > > not

> > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > understood 10 % of the basics on how to analyse rashi

> > > chakra

> > > > > > > > > properly.It will take many years to master.Also on one

> > > hand

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > combination of Rashi chakra with Vargas and on the

other

> > > hand -

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > there is no Main chart.If rashi chakra is not the main

> > > why do

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > want to use them in combination with Vargas?.

> > > > > > > > > Also if Rashi chakra is not the main why do you give so

> > > many

> > > > > > yogas

> > > > > > > > > in your software based on Rashi chakra - pertaining to

> > > all

> > > > > > > > > aspects.If Rashi chakra is just for physique - how will

> > > we see

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > qualities of Mahapurusha from the Rashi chakra? How

will

> > > we

> > > > > > see

> > > > > > > > > Saraswati yoga - the yoga for learning.If 10 th house

> > > and 10th

> > > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > in Rashi chakra is physical ,what is 10th ''house'' and

> > > lord

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > dashamsha.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Narasimha

> > > P.V.R. Rao"

> > > > > > > > >

> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I will quickly try to respond to multiple mails on

> > > multiple

> > > > > > > > lists.

> > > > > > > > > These days I've been really busy and cannot give a more

> > > > > > detailed

> > > > > > > > > reply. I may not actually be able to give any further

> > > replies

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > this thread.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Can you explain why you have given TZ 2 for Marktl,

> > > > > > > > Germany?

> > > > > > > > > At 12 degrees

> > > > > > > > > > > East from Greenwich it is in TZ 1.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Gordon, I may be wrong. If the timezone should be

1:00,

> > > > > > please

> > > > > > > > > change the birthtime to 6:33:40 am to 5:33:40 am.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Bottomline is: I did not know the time and rectified

> > > lagna

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > and various divisions by retro-fitting.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > You wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > Interestingly, it is now Mars antardasa in Venus

> > > mahadasa!

> > > > > > > > > > > Please check, it is Sat Mahadasa and Moon Antardasa.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Praveen, you are right. There is a bug in my software

> > > in the

> > > > > > > > > second cycle of Shashtihayani dasa. Thanks for pointing

> > > this

> > > > > > out.

> > > > > > > > > I'll fix this.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Technically, BTW, whether we can use Shashtihayani

dasa

> > > > > > after

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > age of 60 has passed is debatable. The same holds for

> > > other

> > > > > > dasas.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > It has been observed that the Rashi chakra was not

> > > given

> > > > > > due

> > > > > > > > > respect

> > > > > > > > > > > during your analysis.Results were decided on the

> > > basis of

> > > > > > > > varga -

> > > > > > > > > > > which is derived from Rashi chakra.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > As thousands of students are observing this

> > > analysis - Pls

> > > > > > > > make

> > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > clear is it possible to deduce results from

varga of

> > > a

> > > > > > > > > planet/lagna

> > > > > > > > > > > alone.When Panditji had questioned a similar

> > > analysis on

> > > > > > > > > saptamsha -

> > > > > > > > > > > One could find Ms.Sarbani Sarkar rushing in and

> > > > > > correcting -

> > > > > > > > > > > Significance of Rashi chakra.I would be pleased to

> > > know if

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > hold a

> > > > > > > > > > > different position.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Pradeep, because you asked, I will clarify MY

position.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > For perfection, multiple divisional charts should be

> > > judged

> > > > > > > > > together. We are often doing imperfect astrology for

the

> > > sake

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > simplicity and look at only one chart. The best answer

> > > is not

> > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > single chart, but a combination of charts.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > But, if I have to choose a single chart, I'll choose

> > > the

> > > > > > > > > applicable varga (e.g. D-10 for career, D-24 for

> > > education

> > > > > > etc)

> > > > > > > > > rather than the rasi chart. Though imperfect, it works

> > > way

> > > > > > better

> > > > > > > > > for me than rasi chart alone.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > While combining rasi with divisions leads to better

> > > results,

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > still away from perfection. Perfection can come only

when

> > > > > > > > > shashtyamsa (D-60) is understood correctly and used.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > When Parasara defined the matters seen in various

> > > divisions

> > > > > > > > (e.g.

> > > > > > > > > physical matters in rasi, financial matters in D-2,

> > > > > > professional

> > > > > > > > > matters in D-10), he said that "everything" is seen

in D-

> > > 60.

> > > > > > Also

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > vimsopaka bala computation of dasa varga, D-60 gets a

> > > higher

> > > > > > > > > weightage than rasi and navamsa combined!

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I am fully convinced that the Jyotish is an imperfect

> > > > > > subject

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > just an art as long as one ignores D-60, which was

given

> > > so

> > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > > importance by Parasara. Jyotish can be established as a

> > > > > > science

> > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > when we master D-60.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Kalyan verma states - one who is not considering the

> > > > > > vargas

> > > > > > > > > cannot

> > > > > > > > > > > make good predictions.What does this mean? Doesn't

> > > it mean

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > there

> > > > > > > > > > > is someother place - (other than vargas) - to read

> > > the

> > > > > > > > results?

> > > > > > > > > Which

> > > > > > > > > > > is this other MAIN place? Is it not the Rashi

> > > chakra?

> > > > > > Division

> > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > meaning should have a main to get divided.So which

> > > is this

> > > > > > > > main?

> > > > > > > > > If we

> > > > > > > > > > > consider Rashi chakra as the first division - then

> > > where

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > main?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Rasi is a divisional chart too. It is one of the

vargas

> > > > > > > > according

> > > > > > > > > to Parasara.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > There is nothing called main and secondary. If you

ask

> > > me to

> > > > > > > > pick

> > > > > > > > > the most important divisional chart, I'll pick D-60.

As I

> > > > > > > > mentioned

> > > > > > > > > above, Parasara said everything can be seen in D-60 and

> > > gave

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > weightage than rasi and navamsa combined, when defining

> > > dasa

> > > > > > varga

> > > > > > > > > vimsopaka bala.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > > > Correct ! If we apply common sense, we can see

> > > Vargas

> > > > > > repeating

> > > > > > > > > > > with lagna as it is a few hours before. Only the

Moon

> > > > > > changes

> > > > > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Vargas do not exactly repeat. Different divisions

have

> > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > patterns. The navamsa, dasamsa, vimsamsa,

chaturvimsamsa

> > > and

> > > > > > > > > shashtyamsa combination I identified in Aries rasi

lagna

> > > does

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > repeat in Pisces rasi or Taurus rasi.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > position fast. Then, touchstone of any predictive

> > > > > > principle is

> > > > > > > > > advance

> > > > > > > > > > > predictions, which they always elude. Veteran

> > > astrologers

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > Jyotish

> > > > > > > > > > > Group like Shri K.N.Rao and Satya Prakash ji too

> > > advised

> > > > > > them,

> > > > > > > > > but

> > > > > > > > > > > of no avail. A whole generation is being misguided.

> > > Most

> > > > > > > > > unfortunate !

> > > > > > > > > > > But then, as Shri K.N.Rao says, it is the will of

> > > the God.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > It is quite presumptuous of some to believe that "a

> > > whole

> > > > > > > > > generation is being misguided". Whether a generation is

> > > being

> > > > > > > > > misguided or guided in the correct direction to fully

> > > discover

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > teachings of maharshis and establish astrology as a

> > > science is

> > > > > > > > > something that the coming generations will judge.

> > > Neither I

> > > > > > nor

> > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > are in a position to pre-judge it.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Let me do my work and you do your work. There is no

> > > need to

> > > > > > talk

> > > > > > > > > about misguided generations.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > [Visti] Parasara states that if eighth lord is well

> > > placed

> > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > even exalted,

> > > > > > > > > > > then longevity will be long - This is also applied

> > > in the

> > > > > > > > method

> > > > > > > > > of three

> > > > > > > > > > > pairs. You may argue that the eighth lord when

> > > strong will

> > > > > > > > cause

> > > > > > > > > problems,

> > > > > > > > > > > but Harihara states in Prasna Marga, that when the

> > > planets

> > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > strong they

> > > > > > > > > > > will give their auspicious results - he states that

> > > this

> > > > > > > > applies

> > > > > > > > > to both

> > > > > > > > > > > natal and prasna charts. Further being Vara lord

and

> > > in

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > fifth house, it

> > > > > > > > > > > means the digestive fire is excellent and excellent

> > > health

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > promised. This

> > > > > > > > > > > is not the problem.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Visti, I do not look at only the placement of

vaaresha

> > > but

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > the ownership of the vaaresha. If the weekday lord in a

> > > > > > muhurta

> > > > > > > > > happens to be randhresha, I do not consider it

> > > auspicious.

> > > > > > This is

> > > > > > > > > just my view and not explicitly granted by classics. If

> > > you

> > > > > > have a

> > > > > > > > > different view, I can respect it.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > [Visti] What is your current view on the use of the

> > > > > > arudha

> > > > > > > > > lagna in the

> > > > > > > > > > > calculation of vaisheshikamsa?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Hmm, I don't have any view. I spent so much time

> > > mulling

> > > > > > over

> > > > > > > > > Parasara's vaiseshikamsa clause "swaaroodhaat kendra

> > > > > > naathaanaam

> > > > > > > > > vargaah graahyaah sudheemataa", but could not come to a

> > > > > > conclusion.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > When I wrote that Sun is in Brahmalokamsa in Pope

> > > Benedict

> > > > > > XVI's

> > > > > > > > > chart, I did not use the "swaaroodhaat" criterion. I

> > > used only

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > standard definition and ignoring the additional clause.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > When Lord Dakshinamurthy blesses me, I will

understand

> > > this

> > > > > > > > clause

> > > > > > > > > correctly. When I do, I will share my understanding

with

> > > all.

> > > > > > For

> > > > > > > > > now, I have no view.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > [Visti] In concur with your choice for the popes

> > > chart -

> > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > rectification.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much Visti. I am glad a Jyotish

scholar

> > > of

> > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > knowledge and abilities has concurred with my

> > > rectification.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> > > > > > > > > > Narasimha

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > ----------------------------

> > > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):

> > > > > > http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > > > > > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows):

> > > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > > > > > > > > SJC website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > ----------------------------

> > > > > > ---

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor

----------------

> > > ----~-->

> > > > > > Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease?

> > > > > > Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness

> > > efforts!

> > > > > >

> > > http://us.click./UwRTUD/UOnJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > --------------------------------

> > > ---~->

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Archives:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Group info:

> > > > > vedic astrology/info.html

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> > > > > vedic astrology-

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > >

> > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > > > > > Links

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > --

> > > > > V.Partha Sarathy,

> > > > > partvinu.blogspot.com

> > > > >

> > > > > All that we are is the result of what we have thought. If a man

> > > speaks or

> > > > > acts with an evil thought, pain follows him. If a man speaks or

> > > acts with a

> > > > > pure thought, happiness follows him, like a shadow that never

> > > leaves him.

> > > > > -----Buddha

> > > > >

> > > > > Plot.no.71

> > > > > Road No.3

> > > > > Nagarjuna Hills

> > > > > Hyderabad

> > > > > India-500 082

> > > > >

> > > > > Group info:

> > > > > vedic astrology/info.html

> > > > >

> > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> > > > > vedic astrology-

> > > > >

> > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > >

> > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > > > >

> > > > > Group info:

> > > > > vedic astrology/info.html

> > > > >

> > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> > > > > vedic astrology-

> > > > >

> > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > >

> > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > > > >

> > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > Links

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology/

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology

> > > > >

> > > > > Terms of

> > > Service.

> > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > Links

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology/

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology

> > > > >

> > > > > Terms of

> > > Service.

> > > > >

> > >

> > > Group info:

> > > vedic astrology/info.html

> > >

> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> > > vedic astrology-

> > >

> > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > >

> > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > >

> > > ________________________________

> > > Links

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> >

> > Links

> >

> >

> > http://us.click./UwRTUD/UOnJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM

> >

> > Jagannathan .

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> Links

>

Jagannathan .

April 24, 2005

dear pandit ji

i want to know about that when wiii my good time come i means to that

when i will get my buisness and which side is best for me

my birth date is 10/12/1982 :time 6:32am :place-pali marwar(rajasthan)

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 Panditji wrote :

>

>Namaste,

>

>I have written another mail on this topic an hour back, please read

>that one too. Yes if there was a repeatable method to decipher these

>things we will all be so happy. Unfortunately the rishis did not give

>a single example chart for us to understand these principles.

>

>We are making a mistake of using after the fact analysis and

>explanations to advance the argument that divisions( or divisional

>charts for some) explain these mystries such as twins. You mention

>about mark waugh and steve waugh. One can explain after the fact

>anything. So bringing twins to advance this argument when one does not

>have high predictive success rate on natives who are not twins is like

>trying to plan a trip to the moon when one has not even flown across a

>river yet.

>

>Lets look at political predictions. Now when the two candidates are

>known, even my teenager has a 50-50 chance of predicting a winner. Now

>if someone predicts bush will win or kerry will lose thats really not

>an impressive prediction. Now if someone had predicted that Clinton

>would win the election when he announced his candidacy in Nov 1991,

>when he had just begun the run for democratic nomination and bush sr.

>was at the peak of his approval ratings, I would call that a

>prediction. When there are only two left in the race, a flip of coin

>will have the same chance of success.

>

>I do not think that jyotish has evolved to a point where it can have

>such a predictive accuracy. Some are basically creating so many

>parameters( Arudh, dashas in divisions, rashi dasha, nakshatra

>dasha,tithi pravesh,argala) the list is endless that if we do not find

>an event in a chart that would be a surprise. Thats why a few on this

>list have raised these questions.

>

>...

>

>On 4/23/05, kapisthalam jagannathan <jagannathankr (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:

> > Dear Sir,

> > i am happy to read your kind and loving mail.you are all men of knowledge

> > and skills.You are real seekers.I have no doubt.I pray to God for your

> > success.

> > Just like anyother person,I am attracted by the great works of Rishis and

> > particularly the Nadi Grandhas which seem to be mysterious .Alas, we lost

> > our rich heritage and what we have now left with us ,seems to be only bones

> > and ashes of the past.

> > Regards,

> > jagannathan.

> >

> > vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep > wrote:

> >

> > Dear shri Utpal

> >

> > As Jagannathan ji has mentioned there are many things which cannot be

> > explained without experience and sadhana.For this we have to study and

> > persevere for years.There are no short cuts.If we cannot understand -

> > it does not mean we can use bhavas everywhere.

> >

> > If the twins are taken out in emergency by ceasarian section then it

> > is even possible to have same shastiamsha.

> >

> > I hope people will not bring in bhavas for nadiamshas.

> > Navamsha has significance due to concurrence with nakshathra

> > padas.Vedic astrology is rooted in nakshathras.It is also a division.

> >

> > Dear Jagannathan ji

> >

> > Your posts and writings are very balanced.I respect your open view.I

> > never said my view is correct.I am just asking questions.

> > Even the lord is learning.Avataras of bhagavan too were subjected to

> > karma and results.It is this continuous learning that keeps the

> > universe alive.

> >

> > Respect

> > Pradeep

> >

> > vedic astrology, kapisthalam jagannathan

> > wrote:

> > > Dear Sir,

> > > I have been reading your kind mails.

> > > Suppose two or more than two are born at almost the same time ,date

> > ,place etc ,may be to different parents, how are we account for

> > differences amongst them astrologically.let alone the question of

> > twins.?I wish some astrologer explains.

> > > Regards,

> > > jagannathan.

> > >

> > > Utpal Pathak wrote:

> > > Dear Pandit ji & Pradeep ji (You both deserve to be JI for Me)

> > >

> > > Are we not casting 'Navmansha Chart' and give importance (pl. read

> > Much) to it. if D9 Chart, being a Varga chart can be analysed with so

> > much intrest in judging any chart then the same logic should also

> > apply to other Varga Charts.

> > >

> > > You asked following things

> > > > > Both have the same navamsha. If twins case can be explained

> > > > with

> > > > > divisional charts, are you suggesting that both will get married at

> > > > > the same time ? Will their spouses nature will be identical ?

> > >

> > > I am really surprised about your question at the same time I am very

> > very curious to know the answer for you. Without not taking any help

> > from any other Vargas and just by Looking the same Navmansha & Rashi,

> > how you convincingly suggest to find out the marriage timing and

> > nature of Spouses etc..

> > >

> > > At least the other Vargas provide some Valuable insight in to the

> > differences in the different areas of lives of twins. if not d9 then

> > d10 or D12 or D16 or D24 or D30 OR Shatyamsa.

> > >

> > > For Example: - Mark Waugh & Steve Waugh had Career in Similar field

> > (Cricket) but their Achievements, Span of Career, Exploits & Talents

> > were not Identical. i don't have their birth detials but they may have

> > same d10 along with same rasi chart ofcourse.

> > >

> > > pl. take it very positively and answer to me for the benefit of

> > every body

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Utpal

> > >

> > > Panditji wrote:

> > > Namaste Pradeepji ( You deserve the Ji, trust me)

> > >

> > > What if the twins have same navansha or saptamsha ?

> > >

> > > Ofcourse I forgot that the sjc parampara has many versions of

> > > divisional charts. 3 varieties of navanshas so if the data does not

> > > fit, try the different flavor of navansha or saptamsha. Are there are

> > > a few versions of rashi charts as well ?

> > >

> > > ...

> > >

> > > On 4/22/05, vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Panditji

> > > >

> > > > Medical science says average time gap between twins are 15-17

> > > > minutes.Thus twins can be born between 10 minutes as well as 30

> > > > minutes.

> > > >

> > > > Thus as you have said - there can be possibility that twins can have

> > > > same hora,same drekkana,same saptamsha and same dashamsha.

> > > >

> > > > Can anyone help me in analysing saptamsha bhavas and dashamsha

> > > > bhavas here.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, Panditji

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > Namaste,

> > > > >

> > > > > Sharmaji of this list had given a chart of twins a couple of months

> > > > > back. Both have the same navamsha. If twins case can be explained

> > > > with

> > > > > divisional charts, are you suggesting that both will get married at

> > > > > the same time ? Will their spouses nature will be identical ?

> > > > >

> > > > > ...

> > > > >

> > > > > On 4/22/05, Utpal Pathak wrote:

> > > > > > All respected Luminiaries of Jtotisha & Philosophy,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I would like to add my 2 cent...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > following argument Appealed me and convinced me about

> > > > the 'Importance' of

> > > > > > Varga chart

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1) Each House in Rashi chart stands for so many matters. how to

> > > > > > diifferntiate? (pl. i know karka technology)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2) If rishi says that d9 is chart for dharma/spouse, d10 for

> > > > respect and

> > > > > > work in , d12 for parents and so on & so forth then it

> > > > automatically brings

> > > > > > the important of Vargas as 'Charts' and not merely tool to see

> > > > Vimshopak

> > > > > > bal, Vaiseshikamsha etc..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3) Major difference in lives of Twins can be most fittingly

> > > > justied only by

> > > > > > Difference in Varga charts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > utpal pathak

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Partha Sarathy wrote:

> > > > > > Dear Sourav

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That was a brilliant mail.

> > > > > > I am especially interested in the Trimsamsa sloka. Could you

> > > > kindly for the

> > > > > > benefit of the readers, explain each individual term and give a

> > > > detailed

> > > > > > interpretation.

> > > > > > best wishes

> > > > > > partha

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 4/22/05, Sourav Chowdhury wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||

> > > > > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Pradeep-ji,

> > > > > > > Namaskar. As per your request, I have reread

> > > > the

> > > > > > > postions of the BPHS which is relevent to your and my

> > > > arguments once

> > > > > > > more so that I am confident in giving this reply. I wish not to

> > > > > > > write any more in this subject as it is useless to argue

> > > > against ill

> > > > > > > formed hypotheses, some of which is in your reply.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "You should also carefully read all my mails before

> > > > commenting.Every

> > > > > > > varga defined by sage parashara is important - i am only

> > > > against

> > > > > > > varga ''charts''."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My argument: I will only use BPHS in my argument.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1. Maharshi Parasara (and the rishis of his era and later eras)

> > > > > > > wrote in clear, unequivocal but also pithy form so save space

> > > > but to

> > > > > > > deliver the message clearly. So each word is very relevant and

> > > > > > > important.Now let us see the arrangement of chapters in the

> > > > BPHS.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > C.1 - The Creation

> > > > > > > C.2 - Great Incarnations of the Lord

> > > > > > > C.3 - Planetary Characters and Description

> > > > > > > C.4 - Zodiacal Signs

> > > > > > > C.5 - Finding Planetary Positions

> > > > > > > C.6 - Special Ascendants

> > > > > > > C.7 - The Sixteen Divisions of a Sign

> > > > > > > C.8 - Divisional Consideration

> > > > > > > C.9 - Aspects of the Signs

> > > > > > > C.10- Surroundings at the Time of Birth

> > > > > > > C.11- Evils at Birth

> > > > > > > C.12- Antidotes for Evil

> > > > > > > C.13- Judgement of Houses

> > > > > > > C.14- Effects of the 1st House

> > > > > > > C.15- Effects of the 2nd House

> > > > > > > (etc.)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > From the scheme of things, it is very clear that Vargas are of

> > > > prime

> > > > > > > importance. Explanations are given for Rasi Chakra Analysis

> > > > **only

> > > > > > > after** defining in details all the sixteen divisions of a

> > > > sign, the

> > > > > > > formulation of these vargas and the presiding deities. This is

> > > > > > > significant.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You again said:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "If you read those chapters with caution and fresh mind all

> > > > your

> > > > > > > doubts will be cleared. How to analyse Vargas has been clearly

> > > > > > > explained.Read vimshopaka strength in BPHS."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Are you implying the Parasara went into all the trouble of

> > > > details

> > > > > > > of vargas and presiding deities just to give us a clue for

> > > > > > > Vimshopaka Bala of planets ?? This is a completely mistaken

> > > > argument.

> > > > > > > I will tell you why.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > BPHS C.7.2-3

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Kshetram hora cha dreskaanasturyamsah saptamamsaka |

> > > > > > > Navamso dasaamamsascha suryamsah shodasamsaka ||

> > > > > > > Vimsamso vedavamso bhamsatrimsamsakastatah |

> > > > > > > khavedamshokhsabedamsah sasthiamsascha tatah param ||

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "These vargas are: Griha (rasi or sign), Hora, Drekkana,

> > > > > > > Chaturthamsa, Saptamamsa, Navamamsa, Dasamamsa, Dwadasamamsa,

> > > > > > > Shodasamamsa, Vimsamsa, Chaturvimsamsa, Saptavimsamsa,

> > > > Trimsamsa,

> > > > > > > Khavedamsa, Akshavedamsa and Sasthiamsa."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rasi (see the words Kshetram hora cha ..) is clearly clubbed

> > > > > > > together with other vargas. Hence if we treat rasi's as bhavas

> > > > and

> > > > > > > perform bhava analysis, why shouldn't we do the same with other

> > > > > > > vargas which are only higher divisions of the zodiac just as

> > > > rasi

> > > > > > > also is ?!? Thus Rasi Chart is definitely a divisional chart

> > > > (called

> > > > > > > D-1) and the way it is going to be analysed (from C.13

> > > > onwards) will

> > > > > > > show us the way other varga charts should be analysed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I will give you one more indication of the above conclusion:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > BPHS C.8.16 (last line)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Trimsamsake vichintyayevamatrapi grihabat smritam ||

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Here the Sage gives clear instruction that Chaturthamsa,

> > > > Navamamsa,

> > > > > > > Trimsamsa etc. vargas chakras will be studies **like the 12

> > > > houses**

> > > > > > > in the birth chart (rasi chakra).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thus it is doubtless that Maharshi indicated that all 16

> > > > vargas are

> > > > > > > to be analysed as individual "charts" just like the most

> > > > popular of

> > > > > > > them i.e. the rasi varga chart. I hope this expunges all doubt.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2. Your next argument is trying to show that varga charts

> > > > cannot

> > > > > > > exist because it becomes difficult to apply bhava

> > > > significances in

> > > > > > > varga charts.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You stated:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "In bhava analysis - Parashara advises 9th house for father

> > > > and 4th

> > > > > > > for mother - This is for rashi chakra not for vargas. Can you

> > > > pls

> > > > > > > tell me what is 4th and 9th houses in Hora?Hora is a division

> > > > not a

> > > > > > > chart- so are other vargas.After seeing 2nd house matters,one

> > > > has to

> > > > > > > see the planets Hora placement.BPHS explains the strength of

> > > > planets

> > > > > > > in Hora."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > BPHS C.8.37-38

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Tanurdhanam cha sahaje bandhuputrarayastatha |

> > > > > > > Yuvatirandhradharmashakarmalabhabyayah kramat ||

> > > > > > > Sanshepenaitaduditamanyad budhyayanusaaratah |

> > > > > > > Kinchivishesam vakshyami yatha brahmamukhaachhrutam ||

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " Tanu, Dhana, Sahaja, Bandhu, Putra, Ari, Yuvati, Randhra,

> > > > Dharma,

> > > > > > > Karma, Laabha and Vyaya are in order the names of the 12

> > > > houses.

> > > > > > > Other things than these should be understood according to

> > > > one's own

> > > > > > > intelligence. Now I will try to tell you some new things which

> > > > I

> > > > > > > heard from the speech of Lord Brahma"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Carefully read this part ** Other things than these should be

> > > > > > > understood according to one's own intelligence ** Thus in each

> > > > > > > divisional chart each house can potentially mean different

> > > > things

> > > > > > > depending on the particular varga chart in question !!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This responds to your second argument. Refer to Message #

> > > > 55218 by

> > > > > > > Guru Narasimha-ji for further understanding what house can

> > > > mean what

> > > > > > > in a particular Varga. Parasari Hora Chart has two houses only.

> > > > > > > Infact this is an exceptional chart in that sense and thus you

> > > > > > > cannot really ask for the significance for the 4H or 9H as

> > > > they dont

> > > > > > > exist in this particular chart!! In case of other kinds of

> > > > Hora

> > > > > > > charts like Kashinatha Hora, 4H can mean sukha regarding

> > > > wealth and

> > > > > > > 9H can mean fortune regarding wealth, the dharma followed in

> > > > earning

> > > > > > > wealth or the guidence (or mis-guidence) received in earning

> > > > wealth

> > > > > > > of things of sustenance etc.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As per Parasara, you should intelligently ask and assign the

> > > > > > > significance of a particular house in a Varga Chakra. Note that

> > > > > > > Lagna in that Chakra represents the native in the particular

> > > > aspect

> > > > > > > of life this Varga Chakra is Drawn. Ex. D-10 is a career Varga

> > > > > > > chakra and La in D-10 shows the native himself in the field of

> > > > > > > career. 9H here will show the nature of guidence and

> > > > relationship

> > > > > > > with the guide (read 'boss' or 'authority') in the career

> > > > field.

> > > > > > > I ask you to exercise your intelligence and derive the

> > > > significance

> > > > > > > of each divisional chart. It will help you immensely and show

> > > > you

> > > > > > > how deep the above quoted statement of Maharsi truely is !!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 3. I will end my prolonged monologue by answering your last

> > > > argument.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You said:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > "So is [sic, 'in'] shastyamsha - the bhava whose lord in

> > > > benefic

> > > > > > > shstyamsha willflourish - where is this bhava found? In Rashi

> > > > chakra

> > > > > > > or shastyamsha? Ask this last question and you will not have

> > > > anymore

> > > > > > > doubts."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The referred statement in BPHS is C.8.6 If you see the context

> > > > of

> > > > > > > what Maharshi was talking about in that portion you will see

> > > > that he

> > > > > > > was speaking about what various vargas signify. In the end he

> > > > says

> > > > > > > this statement. Your translation of the statement is

> > > > misleading. I

> > > > > > > will take what Sri G. C. Sharma has given "There is no doubt

> > > > in the

> > > > > > > destruction of the house whose lord is in a malefic

> > > > Sashtiamsa" This

> > > > > > > clearly means that no matter what divisional chart you

> > > > consider, if

> > > > > > > any house lord in any such chart is in a bad Sashtiamsa (read

> > > > ruled

> > > > > > > by a malefic deity), that house in that varga chart is

> > > > definitely

> > > > > > > going to suffer. He didnt say if it is Rasi chart, thereby

> > > > > > > indicating any divisional chart.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hope this discussion helps. It doesn't matter if I am new to

> > > > this

> > > > > > > discussion. I need not read all your previous e-mails. You

> > > > seem to

> > > > > > > be too attached to your own line of thinking and shutting away

> > > > > > > others. It's best to challenge your own self in understanding

> > > > rather

> > > > > > > than jump up and challange other's understandings especially of

> > > > > > > the learned and experienced like Guru Narasimha-ji.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sourav

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > ===================================================================

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep"

> > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear shri Saurav

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You can address me without a ji.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I think you are new to this series of discussion on

> > > > vargas.It has

> > > > > > > been

> > > > > > > > going on since long.More than a year.Shri Narasimha knows

> > > > what i am

> > > > > > > > saying.Also this thread started when shri Narasimha had

> > > > analysed

> > > > > > > new

> > > > > > > > popes chart without giving importance to Rashi chart.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You should also carefully read all my mails before

> > > > commenting.Every

> > > > > > > > varga defined by sage parashara is important - i am only

> > > > against

> > > > > > > varga

> > > > > > > > ''charts''.If you read those chapters with caution and fresh

> > > > mind -

> > > > > > > > all your doubts will be cleared.

> > > > > > > > How to analyse Vargas has been clearly explained.Read

> > > > vimshopaka

> > > > > > > > strength in BPHS.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In bhava analysis - Parashara advises 9th house for father

> > > > and 4th

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > mother - This is for rashi chakra not for vargas. Can you

> > > > pls tell

> > > > > > > me

> > > > > > > > what is 4th and 9th houses in Hora?Hora is a division not a

> > > > chart-

> > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > are other vargas.After seeing 2nd house matters,one has to

> > > > see the

> > > > > > > > planets Hora placement.BPHS explains the strength of planets

> > > > in

> > > > > > > Hora.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So is shastyamsha - the bhava whose lord in benefic

> > > > shstyamsha will

> > > > > > > > flourish - where is this bhava found? In Rashi chakra or

> > > > > > > shastyamsha?

> > > > > > > > Ask this last question and you will not have anymore doubts.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Sourav Chowdhury"

> > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep-ji,

> > > > > > > > > Namaskar. Your arguments are ill founded and you

> > > > > > > > > haven't carefully read Guru Narasimha-ji's comments.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 1. He never undermined the need to analyse rasi chart.

> > > > Infact he

> > > > > > > > > always say in this mp3 lessons that if Rasi chart doesn't

> > > > allow

> > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > event, it will not happen even if indications are there in

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > higher divisional chart. If you have read BPHS, Maharshi

> > > > Parasara

> > > > > > > > > has first described 16 divisions of signs (i.e. effectively

> > > > > > > defining

> > > > > > > > > the varga charts) and then went on into bhava analysis.

> > > > Why so

> > > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > > importance to varga charts by the Sage himself ?!?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 2. Rasi chart's houses have so many significances, the

> > > > same 4H

> > > > > > > shows

> > > > > > > > > motherly relationship, house, heart, vehicles happiness

> > > > and so

> > > > > > > on.

> > > > > > > > > If you try to get all predictions done by rasi chart and

> > > > then go

> > > > > > > > > into vargas for a secondary check, you might be mislead.

> > > > The

> > > > > > > ideal

> > > > > > > > > is to mix and match both of them.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 3. There is the beautiful example of twins who are born

> > > > very

> > > > > > > close

> > > > > > > > > in time to each other and have completely different

> > > > capabilities

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > personalities. You can read the details that Guru

> > > > Narasimha-ji

> > > > > > > has

> > > > > > > > > posted in his website www.vedicastrologer.com . Kindly

> > > > read it

> > > > > > > > > before making further comments.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I like to see many schools of thought. It is beneficial to

> > > > > > > learning.

> > > > > > > > > But when arguments are made to a Guru's remark for the

> > > > same of

> > > > > > > > > argument, I think it doesn't stand good for the purpose of

> > > > > > > learning.

> > > > > > > > > I hope I will be taken based on what I wrote and meant and

> > > > not

> > > > > > > > > merely as blind defender of faith in my Guru.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Sourav

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > =====================================================================

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep"

> > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Dear Narasimha ji

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > You are very right in pointing the imperfections.Now you

> > > > have

> > > > > > > said

> > > > > > > > > > Rashi chakra is very simple - Atleast not for me.I have

> > > > not

> > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > understood 10 % of the basics on how to analyse rashi

> > > > chakra

> > > > > > > > > > properly.It will take many years to master.Also on one

> > > > hand

> > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > say

> > > > > > > > > > combination of Rashi chakra with Vargas and on the other

> > > > hand -

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > there is no Main chart.If rashi chakra is not the main

> > > > why do

> > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > want to use them in combination with Vargas?.

> > > > > > > > > > Also if Rashi chakra is not the main why do you give so

> > > > many

> > > > > > > yogas

> > > > > > > > > > in your software based on Rashi chakra - pertaining to

> > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > aspects.If Rashi chakra is just for physique - how will

> > > > we see

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > qualities of Mahapurusha from the Rashi chakra? How will

> > > > we

> > > > > > > see

> > > > > > > > > > Saraswati yoga - the yoga for learning.If 10 th house

> > > > and 10th

> > > > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > > in Rashi chakra is physical ,what is 10th ''house'' and

> > > > lord

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > dashamsha.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks

> > > > > > > > > > Pradeep

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Narasimha

> > > > P.V.R. Rao"

> > > > > > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > Namaste friends,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I will quickly try to respond to multiple mails on

> > > > multiple

> > > > > > > > > lists.

> > > > > > > > > > These days I've been really busy and cannot give a more

> > > > > > > detailed

> > > > > > > > > > reply. I may not actually be able to give any further

> > > > replies

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > this thread.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Can you explain why you have given TZ 2 for Marktl,

> > > > > > > > > Germany?

> > > > > > > > > > At 12 degrees

> > > > > > > > > > > > East from Greenwich it is in TZ 1.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Gordon, I may be wrong. If the timezone should be 1:00,

> > > > > > > please

> > > > > > > > > > change the birthtime to 6:33:40 am to 5:33:40 am.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Bottomline is: I did not know the time and rectified

> > > > lagna

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > rasi

> > > > > > > > > > and various divisions by retro-fitting.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > You wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Interestingly, it is now Mars antardasa in Venus

> > > > mahadasa!

> > > > > > > > > > > > Please check, it is Sat Mahadasa and Moon Antardasa.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Praveen, you are right. There is a bug in my software

> > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > > second cycle of Shashtihayani dasa. Thanks for pointing

> > > > this

> > > > > > > out.

> > > > > > > > > > I'll fix this.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Technically, BTW, whether we can use Shashtihayani dasa

> > > > > > > after

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > age of 60 has passed is debatable. The same holds for

> > > > other

> > > > > > > dasas.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > It has been observed that the Rashi chakra was not

> > > > given

> > > > > > > due

> > > > > > > > > > respect

> > > > > > > > > > > > during your analysis.Results were decided on the

> > > > basis of

> > > > > > > > > varga -

> > > > > > > > > > > > which is derived from Rashi chakra.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > As thousands of students are observing this

> > > > analysis - Pls

> > > > > > > > > make

> > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > clear is it possible to deduce results from varga of

> > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > planet/lagna

> > > > > > > > > > > > alone.When Panditji had questioned a similar

> > > > analysis on

> > > > > > > > > > saptamsha -

> > > > > > > > > > > > One could find Ms.Sarbani Sarkar rushing in and

> > > > > > > correcting -

> > > > > > > > > > > > Significance of Rashi chakra.I would be pleased to

> > > > know if

> > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > hold a

> > > > > > > > > > > > different position.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Pradeep, because you asked, I will clarify MY position.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > For perfection, multiple divisional charts should be

> > > > judged

> > > > > > > > > > together. We are often doing imperfect astrology for the

> > > > sake

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > simplicity and look at only one chart. The best answer

> > > > is not

> > > > > > > any

> > > > > > > > > > single chart, but a combination of charts.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > But, if I have to choose a single chart, I'll choose

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > applicable varga (e.g. D-10 for career, D-24 for

> > > > education

> > > > > > > etc)

> > > > > > > > > > rather than the rasi chart. Though imperfect, it works

> > > > way

> > > > > > > better

> > > > > > > > > > for me than rasi chart alone.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > While combining rasi with divisions leads to better

> > > > results,

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > still away from perfection. Perfection can come only when

> > > > > > > > > > shashtyamsa (D-60) is understood correctly and used.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > When Parasara defined the matters seen in various

> > > > divisions

> > > > > > > > > (e.g.

> > > > > > > > > > physical matters in rasi, financial matters in D-2,

> > > > > > > professional

> > > > > > > > > > matters in D-10), he said that "everything" is seen in D-

> > > > 60.

> > > > > > > Also

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > vimsopaka bala computation of dasa varga, D-60 gets a

> > > > higher

> > > > > > > > > > weightage than rasi and navamsa combined!

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I am fully convinced that the Jyotish is an imperfect

> > > > > > > subject

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > just an art as long as one ignores D-60, which was given

> > > > so

> > > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > > > importance by Parasara. Jyotish can be established as a

> > > > > > > science

> > > > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > > > when we master D-60.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Kalyan verma states - one who is not considering the

> > > > > > > vargas

> > > > > > > > > > cannot

> > > > > > > > > > > > make good predictions.What does this mean? Doesn't

> > > > it mean

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > there

> > > > > > > > > > > > is someother place - (other than vargas) - to read

> > > > the

> > > > > > > > > results?

> > > > > > > > > > Which

> > > > > > > > > > > > is this other MAIN place? Is it not the Rashi

> > > > chakra?

> > > > > > > Division

> > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > meaning should have a main to get divided.So which

> > > > is this

> > > > > > > > > main?

> > > > > > > > > > If we

> > > > > > > > > > > > consider Rashi chakra as the first division - then

> > > > where

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > main?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Rasi is a divisional chart too. It is one of the vargas

> > > > > > > > > according

> > > > > > > > > > to Parasara.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing called main and secondary. If you ask

> > > > me to

> > > > > > > > > pick

> > > > > > > > > > the most important divisional chart, I'll pick D-60. As I

> > > > > > > > > mentioned

> > > > > > > > > > above, Parasara said everything can be seen in D-60 and

> > > > gave

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > more

> > > > > > > > > > weightage than rasi and navamsa combined, when defining

> > > > dasa

> > > > > > > varga

> > > > > > > > > > vimsopaka bala.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Correct ! If we apply common sense, we can see

> > > > Vargas

> > > > > > > repeating

> > > > > > > > > > > > with lagna as it is a few hours before. Only the Moon

> > > > > > > changes

> > > > > > > > > its

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Vargas do not exactly repeat. Different divisions have

> > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > patterns. The navamsa, dasamsa, vimsamsa, chaturvimsamsa

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > shashtyamsa combination I identified in Aries rasi lagna

> > > > does

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > repeat in Pisces rasi or Taurus rasi.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > position fast. Then, touchstone of any predictive

> > > > > > > principle is

> > > > > > > > > > advance

> > > > > > > > > > > > predictions, which they always elude. Veteran

> > > > astrologers

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > Jyotish

> > > > > > > > > > > > Group like Shri K.N.Rao and Satya Prakash ji too

> > > > advised

> > > > > > > them,

> > > > > > > > > > but

> > > > > > > > > > > > of no avail. A whole generation is being misguided.

> > > > Most

> > > > > > > > > > unfortunate !

> > > > > > > > > > > > But then, as Shri K.N.Rao says, it is the will of

> > > > the God.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > It is quite presumptuous of some to believe that "a

> > > > whole

> > > > > > > > > > generation is being misguided". Whether a generation is

> > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > misguided or guided in the correct direction to fully

> > > > discover

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > teachings of maharshis and establish astrology as a

> > > > science is

> > > > > > > > > > something that the coming generations will judge.

> > > > Neither I

> > > > > > > nor

> > > > > > > > > you

> > > > > > > > > > are in a position to pre-judge it.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Let me do my work and you do your work. There is no

> > > > need to

> > > > > > > talk

> > > > > > > > > > about misguided generations.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > [Visti] Parasara states that if eighth lord is well

> > > > placed

> > > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > even exalted,

> > > > > > > > > > > > then longevity will be long - This is also applied

> > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > method

> > > > > > > > > > of three

> > > > > > > > > > > > pairs. You may argue that the eighth lord when

> > > > strong will

> > > > > > > > > cause

> > > > > > > > > > problems,

> > > > > > > > > > > > but Harihara states in Prasna Marga, that when the

> > > > planets

> > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > strong they

> > > > > > > > > > > > will give their auspicious results - he states that

> > > > this

> > > > > > > > > applies

> > > > > > > > > > to both

> > > > > > > > > > > > natal and prasna charts. Further being Vara lord and

> > > > in

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > fifth house, it

> > > > > > > > > > > > means the digestive fire is excellent and excellent

> > > > health

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > promised. This

> > > > > > > > > > > > is not the problem.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Visti, I do not look at only the placement of vaaresha

> > > > but

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > the ownership of the vaaresha. If the weekday lord in a

> > > > > > > muhurta

> > > > > > > > > > happens to be randhresha, I do not consider it

> > > > auspicious.

> > > > > > > This is

> > > > > > > > > > just my view and not explicitly granted by classics. If

> > > > you

> > > > > > > have a

> > > > > > > > > > different view, I can respect it.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > [Visti] What is your current view on the use of the

> > > > > > > arudha

> > > > > > > > > > lagna in the

> > > > > > > > > > > > calculation of vaisheshikamsa?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Hmm, I don't have any view. I spent so much time

> > > > mulling

> > > > > > > over

> > > > > > > > > > Parasara's vaiseshikamsa clause "swaaroodhaat kendra

> > > > > > > naathaanaam

> > > > > > > > > > vargaah graahyaah sudheemataa", but could not come to a

> > > > > > > conclusion.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > When I wrote that Sun is in Brahmalokamsa in Pope

> > > > Benedict

> > > > > > > XVI's

> > > > > > > > > > chart, I did not use the "swaaroodhaat" criterion. I

> > > > used only

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > standard definition and ignoring the additional clause.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > When Lord Dakshinamurthy blesses me, I will understand

> > > > this

> > > > > > > > > clause

> > > > > > > > > > correctly. When I do, I will share my understanding with

> > > > all.

> > > > > > > For

> > > > > > > > > > now, I have no view.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > [Visti] In concur with your choice for the popes

> > > > chart -

> > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > rectification.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much Visti. I am glad a Jyotish scholar

> > > > of

> > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > knowledge and abilities has concurred with my

> > > > rectification.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> > > > > > > > > > > Narasimha

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > ----------------------------

> > > > > > > ---

> > > > > > > > > > > Free Jyotish lessons (MP3):

> > > > > > > http://vedicastro.home.comcast.net

> > > > > > > > > > > Free Jyotish software (Windows):

> > > > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org

> > > > > > > > > > > SJC website: http://www.SriJagannath.org

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > ----------------------------

> > > > > > > ---

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor ----------------

> > > > ----~-->

> > > > > > > Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease?

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> > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > --------------------------------

> > > > ---~->

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Archives:

> > > > vedic astrology

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Group info:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> > > > > > vedic astrology-

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > > > > > > Links

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --

> > > > > > V.Partha Sarathy,

> > > > > > partvinu.blogspot.com

> > > > > >

> > > > > > All that we are is the result of what we have thought. If a man

> > > > speaks or

> > > > > > acts with an evil thought, pain follows him. If a man speaks or

> > > > acts with a

> > > > > > pure thought, happiness follows him, like a shadow that never

> > > > leaves him.

> > > > > > -----Buddha

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Plot.no.71

> > > > > > Road No.3

> > > > > > Nagarjuna Hills

> > > > > > Hyderabad

> > > > > > India-500 082

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Archives:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Group info:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> > > > > > vedic astrology-

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > >

> > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Archives:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Group info:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> > > > > > vedic astrology-

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > >

> > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > > Links

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology/

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Terms of

> > > > Service.

> > > > > > ________________________________

> > > > > > Links

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology/

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Terms of

> > > > Service.

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Group info:

> > > >

> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> > > > vedic astrology-

> > > >

> > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > >

> > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > > >

> > > > ________________________________

> > > > Links

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology/

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology

> > > >

> > >

> > > Group info:

> > >

> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> > >

> > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

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> > >

> > > Group info:

> > >

> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

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> > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

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> > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > >

> > > Links

> > >

> > >

> > http://us.click./UwRTUD/UOnJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM

> > >

> > > Jagannathan .

> >

> > ------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~-->

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> > --~->

> >

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> >

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> >

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> > Links

> >

> > Jagannathan .

> >

> > Group info:

> >

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> >

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> >

> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> >

> > ________________________________

> > Links

> >

> >

>http://us.click./UwRTUD/UOnJAA/i1hLAA/.8XolB/TM

> >

>

>------------------------ Sponsor --------------------~-->

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