Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Dear Shri Himanshu Mohan ji Thanks a lot for your kind mail and balanced approach. One thing I would like to make straight. Who am I in the field of astrology to have ego?. Thus please shed your misunderstandings if you have any. Even today I am ready to give up my views ,if a satisfactory response is got. Neither parashara nor Kalyan Varma has defined vargas as charts. Vargas were mentioned after bhavas so that one may not predict without checking corresponding varga bala. Pioneer scholar and grand father of Dr.Raman, professor B.Surya narain Rao opines'' I have been only a student in Astrology and kindred sciences, although I have had 55 years of study and practice. Astrology is a grand ocean, containing four , hundred thousand stanzas or verses, and requires certainly centuries for its grasp and comprehension''. Thus there is no need for getting agitated. Scholar B.V Subbu Rao, Late shri Santhanam, Dr.Gayatri Devi Vasudev's clarification done 20 years back in Astrological magazine, K.N.Raoji transferring karakamsha back to rashi etc mentioned in my mail to shri Sarajit indicates clear concerns. In his recent postings, K.N.Raoji said many times that he use vargas only as additional information(though they were seen as charts). He also said one who cannot predict and analyze from the bare horoscope will never learn astrology. This is true as all vargamshas are inherent within, the bare horoscope. Shri K.N.Raoji was able to judge things by seeing 5th from my karakamsha lagna. So it is not for some rajasic motives, I am raising ''baseless personal allegations'' on a fine morning. It is after studying them in deep and looking at scholarly views of yesteryears.I was taught to respect individuals and criticize views. As my budhi has limitations I can be wrong, but I can very well rasie obvious concers. As you have said, even one who is a master of all knowledge, cannot attain realization without guidance from a Guru. When the right time comes and if destined one will certainly meet his Guru. But no True Guru will ever say his thinking is only correct. If that is the case, there is no need for a discussion group and dialogues. If I think I know everything ,from that moment my growth ceases. One has to keep an open mind and should be prepared to accept good, irrespective of the source. Even from a beggar on the street we can learn a lesson. Even though some members write these off as a fruitless discussion, I do not think so. We are discussing one of the fundamental and most important points in astrology. Thus our combined efforts will not go in vain, unless one feels - whatever may be the facts , I have believed like this and hence will continue to do so. Thanks Pradeep vedic astrology, "Himanshu Mohan" <himanshu@m...> wrote: > > ||Om Namo Bhagwate Vasudevay|| > Dear Shri Pradeep, > Sadar Sasneh Abhivadan. > Let me first of all express sincere thanks to you for reading my > message and interacting with me. Let us remember - opinions are > opinions and facts are facts. > Let me answer one by one - > I do not know about others, but I sincerely quote Shri K.N.Rao ji for > Ayanamsha - Chitrapaksha being my favourite and I equally sincerely > disagree with the Raman Ayanamsha. > I have often got incorrect and inexplicable deductions on using Raman > ayanamsha for which my ignorance or lack of knowledge may be the > cause, or maybe not. > > As regards not posting for all those six years, although the question > does not pertain much to the present discussion, it is primarily due > to two reasons - firstly, I used to read the messages received > through email, in the form of daily digest and by the time I would > read the whole thread, the issue would have settled. > I have often seen disputes arise and settle on this forum in a most > interesting and educative manner, out of which I would happily agree > with one version, not necessarily the agreed conclusion (without ever > actually entering the argument). The second reason is that I sensed > this discussion going into personal realms rather than the > informative, technical and educative one. With your present message > which I am replying to, I am more convinced that I was right in my > thinking. > The third reason could be ascribed to the fact that everybody has a > right to be saner day by day, and six years is not a short time. > The third question - regarding Dr. Raman, I do not hold any negative > opinion about his schemes except that I do not agree with him always, > not that my agreeing matters. I would like only to add that just like > nobody human can be right everytime everywhere, it follows that > nobody can be wrong everytime evrywhere either. For selection only > humans have been granted the analytic capability. > Here I would like to quote Shri Dattatreya from ShrimadBHAGAWATAM > where he concludes after narrating his lessons learnt from 24 Gurus. > He says that he has concluded after all those learnings from various > Gurus that Guru can only guide in developing one's intellect and > character; ultimately one has to find for himself what is suitable > and ahat is unsuitable. > > The transfering of Karakamsha to rashi and chara karaka schemes by > Shri K.N. Rao ji have been supported by his reasearches with solid > foundation of case studies/data. These are not some nice fanciful > flights of imagination termed as deep thinking produced as creative > writings as many of the immature students of astrology indulge into. > It is welcome to have new researches and developments which always > begin with thought process only but are acceptable as rules only when > duly supported by case studies and data. I have submitted my opinion > as asked by you. However, opinions are opinions. > > In response to your various other questions, Sir, I humbly submit > that this discussion would become an unending thread, without serving > fruitful purpose. I am not eluding the answers, just postponing them. > > I have not been personal, I have not written my messages in such > tone, not intended. In my previous message also I have quoted only > someone else's writings which I agree to most regardfully. > > As regards intentions, these are also possible to be found out and > explained correctly, if one uses divisional charts in the proper way. > > Let us see it this way - the argument should be Vaad-Vivaad to be > fruitful with Satvic purposes of increasing ones knowledge and > benefitting the community. This argument is smelling highly of RAJAS, > ego's surfacing. Let us consciously avoid it taking the turn > of 'Kalah' lest it becomes TAMAS. > > BTW, I agree with your message 52830 which I had not seen before > posting my message. I agrre that usage of Vargas as chakras needs > further explorations and debate, not that I disagree with the usage. > > I have seen Jatakabhranam, Jatak Parijat and Phaladeepika also > supporting the usage and importance of divisional charts. These works > do not elaborate how to use these charts and it has been the > interpretation of various translators and commentators that has been > guiding the astrologers since ages. > > It is also worth mention that Pandit Gopesh Kumar Ojha has mentioned > in his works that since Ududaya-Pradeep or Laghu Parashari became > famous most of the common astrologers used this as their main guiding > principle. I am inclined to think that this could also be one of the > main reasons for neglect of divisional charts and popularity of > Vimshottari dasha system in the North. > Well, let us explore more and discuss with further details when > available, to be enlightened. > > Om Shri Krishnarpanamastu. > Himanshu Mohan > > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep" > <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > > > > Dear Shri Himanshu Mohan > > > > If Shri K.N.Raoji and Dr.B.V.Raman can be quoted for supporting > usage > > of vargas as charts,why do we not quote them for ayanamshas and > > charakaraka schemes.Why you were not posting such quotations all > these > > six years? > > > > Do you think Dr.Ramans ayanamsha is wrong and his usage of varga > > chakras are right as it suits our purpose. > > > > What is your opinion about K.N.Raojis chara karaka schemes.Also why > do > > you think shri K.N.Raoji transfers karakamsha over to Rashi. > > > > Also astrologers extensively use vargas during prashna and it is not > > that it is difficult to calculate and hence they are not using them. > > Only regarding their usage as chakras and application one has > doubts. > > > > Also one will have fear only when one has dual intentions.When in > > front of Lord Shiva one can swear his intentions,one need not fear. > > > > Thanks > > Pradeep > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Himanshu Mohan" > > <himanshu@m...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > ||Om Namo Bhagwate Vasudevay|| > > > Guru Shri Sanjay Rath ji, > > > Shraddha-Vandan. > > > I am for the first time posting anything here in last Six > enjoyable > > > years. I quote below from Introduction of 'Learn Successful > > > Predictive Techniques of Hindu Astrology' (Vani Prakashan) by > Shri > > > K.N. Rao on Page 35-36: > > > Line 5 - New para begins - > > > "It has been the most shocking experience of my life and now, of > > > other astrologers, to see the total lack of use of the divisional > > > horoscopes in their writings, in spite of the great emphasis put > on > > > it by Maharshi Parashara. To neglect all that, not even learn > their > > > uses and, claim ti have done some research in astrology is the > most > > > preposterous stand...' > > > Second Para - > > > 'I had struggled very hard with the divisional horoscopes. In > > > 1984 ....Using divisional horoscopes is a brilliant scheme of > > > Maharshi Parashara which cannot be neglected by any serious > > > astrologer.' > > > He further explains that 'It was Sheshadri Iyer who drew the > > > attention of many generations of astrologers to the use of > divisional > > > charts horoscopes' > > > In fact he has discussed this issue many times in his various > books > > > and researches like "Predicting through the Vimshottari > > > Dasha", "Astrological journey through History, Mystery and > > > Horoscopes", Predicting through Jamini's Chara Dasha" etc. > > > The reason I chose to quote from the above reference is that it > is > > > from a beginners book, in easy and chaste english which even > layman > > > can understand. I myself have studied most works of Shri K.N. Rao > > > only recently. > > > I would like to quote Maharshi Parashara's following shloka > (2/13) > > > (again from the second chapter only and 37th shloka from > beginning - > > > Yo Narah Shaastramajnatva Jyotisham khalu Nindati | > > > Rauravam Narakam Bhuktva Chandhatvam Chanyajanmani || > > > > > > In essence meaning that - "One who criticises Jyotish > (applicable to > > > other knowledge also -classic scriptures also) without knowing > it, > > > goes to hell and becomes blind, maybe in next birth/s." > > > > > > Goswami Tulsidas has written in Shri Ram Charit Manas - > > > Phoolahin Phalahin Na Beint, Jadapi Sudha Barasahin Jalad | > > > Moorakh Hriday Na Chet, Jo Guru Milahin Biranchi Sam || > > > that is to say - The bamboos do not bloom or fructify, even if > the > > > clouds shower nectar - Amrita just as well Moorkhas do not > realise or > > > understand even if their Teacher / Guru is Lord Brahma Himself. > > > > > > More and more examples can be given from various references but > it > > > remains a fact of life that divisional charts were not popular > due to > > > astrologers not having the knowledge in the first place and > > > calculations being painstaking in the second. This self demeaing > > > behaviour of the astrolger community could have been one of the > > > causes for astrologers having been classified as backward classes > by > > > the Govt. of India. > > > > > > Om Shri Krishnarpanamastu. > > > > > > With regards, > > > Himanshu Mohan > > > > > > vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" > <guruji@s...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Jaya Jagannatha > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotisa who criticise the word 'D-Charts' or Divisional > charts. > > > > > > > > Well I know at least two other astrologers other than myself > who > > > use the > > > > divisional charts in deciding the results for the various > people of > > > a family > > > > or other events. > > > > > > > > 1. Dr B V Raman has used the navämsa extensively as the räsi > chart > > > although > > > > Sages never seem to have mentioned it as per your understanding > of > > > the > > > > slokas.In 'How to Judge a Horoscope' (a strongly recommended > book > > > by me), he > > > > has given some really fine examples and has shown how to read > > > the 'houses > > > > from the navämsa chart' > > > > > > > > 2. K.N.Rao has gone even a step further in showing the use of D > > > Charts for > > > > timing the death of family members (excellent example of the > Nehru > > > family) > > > > and children using the Saptamsa and Dwadasamsa charts. Have you > > > read his > > > > books? He seems to use D charts all the time. > > > > > > > > 3. I have gone a step further in giving all the D Charts and > their > > > usage in > > > > Crux of Vedic astrology and my other books like Varga Chakra. > > > > > > > > In all the cases of the three astrologers (including myself) > having > > > ample > > > > exposure to the classical Pundits and various sources, we have > > > learnt to use > > > > the D Charts as was originally envisaged (and hope that the > larning > > > from our > > > > elders was not diluted or lost in time) and have shown how to > do so > > > based on > > > > our interpretation and understanding. > > > > > > > > I cannot reproduce the entire COVA here but if you want I can > > > request that a > > > > copy be sent to you as there are some very kind hearted people > in > > > this list. > > > > If after reading all that you still fell that Dr Raman, KNR and > I > > > are wrong > > > > in using D charts or feel that there is a different way to use > them > > > other > > > > than the ways shown in the books, please be so kind as to share > > > that with > > > > us. > > > > > > > > Without the D Charts you have no hope in making even one > prediction > > > in > > > > Jyotish. For your kind benefit, I am giving two charts of two > women > > > born a > > > > minute apart. Would you like t handle this 'twin chart' and > show > > > which one > > > > has got married? I have many charts of twin births. Most > > > interesting cases > > > > really and very challenging. > > > > > > > > Finally, do you Jyotiña draw a navamsa at all or are you trying > to > > > tell the > > > > list that Navamsa chart should not be drawn!!! > > > > > > > > TO ALL LIST MEMBERS > > > > > > > > Plese note that the word 'Divisional chart' and D-Chart' were > > > coined by > > > > K.N.Rao and this has been accepted as standard nomenclature by > all > > > > astrolgoers of SJC. K.N.Rao has done some great service to the > > > world of > > > > astrology by this standardisation and drawing of Divisional > charts. > > > So if > > > > anyone tells you that K N Rao does not use D-Charts then it is > > > saying te > > > > most absurd things about KNR. In case you have any doubts about > > > this, please > > > > write to Sri K.N.Rao yourself and get an answer from him.I can > say > > > that we > > > > may not see eye to eye in the way we use the D-Charts but to > say > > > that > > > > D-Charts should not be drawn at all is blasphemy! > > > > > > > > Dr Raman did not use the words D-Charts initially but later he > as > > > the editor > > > > of the Astrological Magazine has encouraged its use and this > was > > > accepted by > > > > the entire world of Jyotish.So if a few are now saying that D- > Chats > > > don't > > > > exist and that Navamsa cannot be drawn, please do not take this > as > > > the last > > > > word as they are no authority at all. > > > > > > > > May I request someone to forward this to K.N.Rao and get his > > > opinion. > > > > > > > > With best wishes and warm regards, > > > > Sanjay Rath > > > > * * * > > > > Sri Jagannath Center® > > > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road > > > > New Delhi 110060, India > > > > http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162 > > > > * * * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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