RE: D-Charts

March 20, 2005

Jaya Jagannatha

Dear Jyotisa who criticise the word 'D-Charts' or Divisional charts.

Well I know at least two other astrologers other than myself who use the

divisional charts in deciding the results for the various people of a family

or other events.

1. Dr B V Raman has used the navämsa extensively as the räsi chart although

Sages never seem to have mentioned it as per your understanding of the

slokas.In 'How to Judge a Horoscope' (a strongly recommended book by me), he

has given some really fine examples and has shown how to read the 'houses

from the navämsa chart'

2. K.N.Rao has gone even a step further in showing the use of D Charts for

timing the death of family members (excellent example of the Nehru family)

and children using the Saptamsa and Dwadasamsa charts. Have you read his

books? He seems to use D charts all the time.

3. I have gone a step further in giving all the D Charts and their usage in

Crux of Vedic astrology and my other books like Varga Chakra.

In all the cases of the three astrologers (including myself) having ample

exposure to the classical Pundits and various sources, we have learnt to use

the D Charts as was originally envisaged (and hope that the larning from our

elders was not diluted or lost in time) and have shown how to do so based on

our interpretation and understanding.

I cannot reproduce the entire COVA here but if you want I can request that a

copy be sent to you as there are some very kind hearted people in this list.

If after reading all that you still fell that Dr Raman, KNR and I are wrong

in using D charts or feel that there is a different way to use them other

than the ways shown in the books, please be so kind as to share that with

us.

Without the D Charts you have no hope in making even one prediction in

Jyotish. For your kind benefit, I am giving two charts of two women born a

minute apart. Would you like t handle this 'twin chart' and show which one

has got married? I have many charts of twin births. Most interesting cases

really and very challenging.

Finally, do you Jyotiña draw a navamsa at all or are you trying to tell the

list that Navamsa chart should not be drawn!!!

TO ALL LIST MEMBERS

Plese note that the word 'Divisional chart' and D-Chart' were coined by

K.N.Rao and this has been accepted as standard nomenclature by all

astrolgoers of SJC. K.N.Rao has done some great service to the world of

astrology by this standardisation and drawing of Divisional charts. So if

anyone tells you that K N Rao does not use D-Charts then it is saying te

most absurd things about KNR. In case you have any doubts about this, please

write to Sri K.N.Rao yourself and get an answer from him.I can say that we

may not see eye to eye in the way we use the D-Charts but to say that

D-Charts should not be drawn at all is blasphemy!

Dr Raman did not use the words D-Charts initially but later he as the editor

of the Astrological Magazine has encouraged its use and this was accepted by

the entire world of Jyotish.So if a few are now saying that D-Chats don’t

exist and that Navamsa cannot be drawn, please do not take this as the last

word as they are no authority at all.

May I request someone to forward this to K.N.Rao and get his opinion.

With best wishes and warm regards,

Sanjay Rath

* * *

Sri Jagannath Center®

15B Gangaram Hospital Road

New Delhi 110060, India

http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162

* * *

March 20, 2005

Dear Shri Sanjay Rath ji

Thanks a lot for taking time in explaining.

I have seen Dr.Raman using navamsha as a full chart as i have the

books which you have mentioned.Also i know that shri K.N.Rao ji too

uses Divisionals as charts.

I have also expressed my opinion and Shri Raoji has read them too.I

also have your Crux of Vedic Astrology.

Giving due respect to all learned astrologers i beleive a student can

still express his concerns and doubts on a particular aspect.This does

not mean the student is above them in understanding.It is just a

particular aspect.

For me it is difficult to consider them as charts,unless you are kind

enough to explain how it is possible

when classics refer them as amshas or divisions of houses and not

charts.Also the local texts translated by scholars of yesteryears

never consider them as charts.

They consider them as vargas of Lagna and Planets.

Could you kindly explain if it was because of Dr.Ramans and Shri

Raojis usage that you decided to consider them as Charts or based on

some classical reference.

Divisionals are important and hence can differentiate strength,even if

we do not use them as charts.

Also lagna in navamsha ,drekkana etc - Do they represent self or

spouse,siblings etc.This is another doubt.

These are not any attempts to criticize just for the sake of

criticizing.It is a sincere pursuit.

Also i have full respect for your contributions and the knowledge i

have gained through your works.

But that does not prevent me from asking doubts unless i get a

satisfactory answer.

Thanks

Pradeep

vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" <guruji@s...> wrote:

>

> Jaya Jagannatha

>

> Dear Jyotisa who criticise the word 'D-Charts' or Divisional charts.

>

> Well I know at least two other astrologers other than myself who use the

> divisional charts in deciding the results for the various people of

a family

> or other events.

>

> 1. Dr B V Raman has used the navämsa extensively as the räsi chart

although

> Sages never seem to have mentioned it as per your understanding of the

> slokas.In 'How to Judge a Horoscope' (a strongly recommended book by

me), he

> has given some really fine examples and has shown how to read the

'houses

> from the navämsa chart'

>

> 2. K.N.Rao has gone even a step further in showing the use of D

Charts for

> timing the death of family members (excellent example of the Nehru

family)

> and children using the Saptamsa and Dwadasamsa charts. Have you read his

> books? He seems to use D charts all the time.

>

> 3. I have gone a step further in giving all the D Charts and their

usage in

> Crux of Vedic astrology and my other books like Varga Chakra.

>

> In all the cases of the three astrologers (including myself) having

ample

> exposure to the classical Pundits and various sources, we have

learnt to use

> the D Charts as was originally envisaged (and hope that the larning

from our

> elders was not diluted or lost in time) and have shown how to do so

based on

> our interpretation and understanding.

>

> I cannot reproduce the entire COVA here but if you want I can

request that a

> copy be sent to you as there are some very kind hearted people in

this list.

> If after reading all that you still fell that Dr Raman, KNR and I

are wrong

> in using D charts or feel that there is a different way to use them

other

> than the ways shown in the books, please be so kind as to share that

with

> us.

>

> Without the D Charts you have no hope in making even one prediction in

> Jyotish. For your kind benefit, I am giving two charts of two women

born a

> minute apart. Would you like t handle this 'twin chart' and show

which one

> has got married? I have many charts of twin births. Most interesting

cases

> really and very challenging.

>

> Finally, do you Jyotiña draw a navamsa at all or are you trying to

tell the

> list that Navamsa chart should not be drawn!!!

>

> TO ALL LIST MEMBERS

>

> Plese note that the word 'Divisional chart' and D-Chart' were coined by

> K.N.Rao and this has been accepted as standard nomenclature by all

> astrolgoers of SJC. K.N.Rao has done some great service to the world of

> astrology by this standardisation and drawing of Divisional charts.

So if

> anyone tells you that K N Rao does not use D-Charts then it is saying te

> most absurd things about KNR. In case you have any doubts about

this, please

> write to Sri K.N.Rao yourself and get an answer from him.I can say

that we

> may not see eye to eye in the way we use the D-Charts but to say that

> D-Charts should not be drawn at all is blasphemy!

>

> Dr Raman did not use the words D-Charts initially but later he as

the editor

> of the Astrological Magazine has encouraged its use and this was

accepted by

> the entire world of Jyotish.So if a few are now saying that D-Chats

don't

> exist and that Navamsa cannot be drawn, please do not take this as

the last

> word as they are no authority at all.

>

> May I request someone to forward this to K.N.Rao and get his opinion.

>

> With best wishes and warm regards,

> Sanjay Rath

> * * *

> Sri Jagannath Center®

> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road

> New Delhi 110060, India

> http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162

> * * *

March 20, 2005

||Om Namo Bhagwate Vasudevay||

Guru Shri Sanjay Rath ji,

Shraddha-Vandan.

I am for the first time posting anything here in last Six enjoyable

years. I quote below from Introduction of 'Learn Successful

Predictive Techniques of Hindu Astrology' (Vani Prakashan) by Shri

K.N. Rao on Page 35-36:

Line 5 - New para begins -

"It has been the most shocking experience of my life and now, of

other astrologers, to see the total lack of use of the divisional

horoscopes in their writings, in spite of the great emphasis put on

it by Maharshi Parashara. To neglect all that, not even learn their

uses and, claim ti have done some research in astrology is the most

preposterous stand...'

Second Para -

'I had struggled very hard with the divisional horoscopes. In

1984 ....Using divisional horoscopes is a brilliant scheme of

Maharshi Parashara which cannot be neglected by any serious

astrologer.'

He further explains that 'It was Sheshadri Iyer who drew the

attention of many generations of astrologers to the use of divisional

charts horoscopes'

In fact he has discussed this issue many times in his various books

and researches like "Predicting through the Vimshottari

Dasha", "Astrological journey through History, Mystery and

Horoscopes", Predicting through Jamini's Chara Dasha" etc.

The reason I chose to quote from the above reference is that it is

from a beginners book, in easy and chaste english which even layman

can understand. I myself have studied most works of Shri K.N. Rao

only recently.

I would like to quote Maharshi Parashara's following shloka (2/13)

(again from the second chapter only and 37th shloka from beginning -

Yo Narah Shaastramajnatva Jyotisham khalu Nindati |

Rauravam Narakam Bhuktva Chandhatvam Chanyajanmani ||

In essence meaning that - "One who criticises Jyotish (applicable to

other knowledge also -classic scriptures also) without knowing it,

goes to hell and becomes blind, maybe in next birth/s."

Goswami Tulsidas has written in Shri Ram Charit Manas -

Phoolahin Phalahin Na Beint, Jadapi Sudha Barasahin Jalad |

Moorakh Hriday Na Chet, Jo Guru Milahin Biranchi Sam ||

that is to say - The bamboos do not bloom or fructify, even if the

clouds shower nectar - Amrita just as well Moorkhas do not realise or

understand even if their Teacher / Guru is Lord Brahma Himself.

More and more examples can be given from various references but it

remains a fact of life that divisional charts were not popular due to

astrologers not having the knowledge in the first place and

calculations being painstaking in the second. This self demeaing

behaviour of the astrolger community could have been one of the

causes for astrologers having been classified as backward classes by

the Govt. of India.

Om Shri Krishnarpanamastu.

With regards,

Himanshu Mohan

vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" <guruji@s...>

wrote:

>

> Jaya Jagannatha

>

> Dear Jyotisa who criticise the word 'D-Charts' or Divisional charts.

>

> Well I know at least two other astrologers other than myself who

use the

> divisional charts in deciding the results for the various people of

a family

> or other events.

>

> 1. Dr B V Raman has used the navämsa extensively as the räsi chart

although

> Sages never seem to have mentioned it as per your understanding of

the

> slokas.In 'How to Judge a Horoscope' (a strongly recommended book

by me), he

> has given some really fine examples and has shown how to read

the 'houses

> from the navämsa chart'

>

> 2. K.N.Rao has gone even a step further in showing the use of D

Charts for

> timing the death of family members (excellent example of the Nehru

family)

> and children using the Saptamsa and Dwadasamsa charts. Have you

read his

> books? He seems to use D charts all the time.

>

> 3. I have gone a step further in giving all the D Charts and their

usage in

> Crux of Vedic astrology and my other books like Varga Chakra.

>

> In all the cases of the three astrologers (including myself) having

ample

> exposure to the classical Pundits and various sources, we have

learnt to use

> the D Charts as was originally envisaged (and hope that the larning

from our

> elders was not diluted or lost in time) and have shown how to do so

based on

> our interpretation and understanding.

>

> I cannot reproduce the entire COVA here but if you want I can

request that a

> copy be sent to you as there are some very kind hearted people in

this list.

> If after reading all that you still fell that Dr Raman, KNR and I

are wrong

> in using D charts or feel that there is a different way to use them

other

> than the ways shown in the books, please be so kind as to share

that with

> us.

>

> Without the D Charts you have no hope in making even one prediction

in

> Jyotish. For your kind benefit, I am giving two charts of two women

born a

> minute apart. Would you like t handle this 'twin chart' and show

which one

> has got married? I have many charts of twin births. Most

interesting cases

> really and very challenging.

>

> Finally, do you Jyotiña draw a navamsa at all or are you trying to

tell the

> list that Navamsa chart should not be drawn!!!

>

> TO ALL LIST MEMBERS

>

> Plese note that the word 'Divisional chart' and D-Chart' were

coined by

> K.N.Rao and this has been accepted as standard nomenclature by all

> astrolgoers of SJC. K.N.Rao has done some great service to the

world of

> astrology by this standardisation and drawing of Divisional charts.

So if

> anyone tells you that K N Rao does not use D-Charts then it is

saying te

> most absurd things about KNR. In case you have any doubts about

this, please

> write to Sri K.N.Rao yourself and get an answer from him.I can say

that we

> may not see eye to eye in the way we use the D-Charts but to say

that

> D-Charts should not be drawn at all is blasphemy!

>

> Dr Raman did not use the words D-Charts initially but later he as

the editor

> of the Astrological Magazine has encouraged its use and this was

accepted by

> the entire world of Jyotish.So if a few are now saying that D-Chats

don't

> exist and that Navamsa cannot be drawn, please do not take this as

the last

> word as they are no authority at all.

>

> May I request someone to forward this to K.N.Rao and get his

opinion.

>

> With best wishes and warm regards,

> Sanjay Rath

> * * *

> Sri Jagannath Center®

> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road

> New Delhi 110060, India

> http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162

> * * *

March 20, 2005

Dear Shri Himanshu Mohan

If Shri K.N.Raoji and Dr.B.V.Raman can be quoted for supporting usage

of vargas as charts,why do we not quote them for ayanamshas and

charakaraka schemes.Why you were not posting such quotations all these

six years?

Do you think Dr.Ramans ayanamsha is wrong and his usage of varga

chakras are right as it suits our purpose.

What is your opinion about K.N.Raojis chara karaka schemes.Also why do

you think shri K.N.Raoji transfers karakamsha over to Rashi.

Also astrologers extensively use vargas during prashna and it is not

that it is difficult to calculate and hence they are not using them.

Only regarding their usage as chakras and application one has doubts.

Also one will have fear only when one has dual intentions.When in

front of Lord Shiva one can swear his intentions,one need not fear.

Thanks

Pradeep

vedic astrology, "Himanshu Mohan"

<himanshu@m...> wrote:

>

> ||Om Namo Bhagwate Vasudevay||

> Guru Shri Sanjay Rath ji,

> Shraddha-Vandan.

> I am for the first time posting anything here in last Six enjoyable

> years. I quote below from Introduction of 'Learn Successful

> Predictive Techniques of Hindu Astrology' (Vani Prakashan) by Shri

> K.N. Rao on Page 35-36:

> Line 5 - New para begins -

> "It has been the most shocking experience of my life and now, of

> other astrologers, to see the total lack of use of the divisional

> horoscopes in their writings, in spite of the great emphasis put on

> it by Maharshi Parashara. To neglect all that, not even learn their

> uses and, claim ti have done some research in astrology is the most

> preposterous stand...'

> Second Para -

> 'I had struggled very hard with the divisional horoscopes. In

> 1984 ....Using divisional horoscopes is a brilliant scheme of

> Maharshi Parashara which cannot be neglected by any serious

> astrologer.'

> He further explains that 'It was Sheshadri Iyer who drew the

> attention of many generations of astrologers to the use of divisional

> charts horoscopes'

> In fact he has discussed this issue many times in his various books

> and researches like "Predicting through the Vimshottari

> Dasha", "Astrological journey through History, Mystery and

> Horoscopes", Predicting through Jamini's Chara Dasha" etc.

> The reason I chose to quote from the above reference is that it is

> from a beginners book, in easy and chaste english which even layman

> can understand. I myself have studied most works of Shri K.N. Rao

> only recently.

> I would like to quote Maharshi Parashara's following shloka (2/13)

> (again from the second chapter only and 37th shloka from beginning -

> Yo Narah Shaastramajnatva Jyotisham khalu Nindati |

> Rauravam Narakam Bhuktva Chandhatvam Chanyajanmani ||

>

> In essence meaning that - "One who criticises Jyotish (applicable to

> other knowledge also -classic scriptures also) without knowing it,

> goes to hell and becomes blind, maybe in next birth/s."

>

> Goswami Tulsidas has written in Shri Ram Charit Manas -

> Phoolahin Phalahin Na Beint, Jadapi Sudha Barasahin Jalad |

> Moorakh Hriday Na Chet, Jo Guru Milahin Biranchi Sam ||

> that is to say - The bamboos do not bloom or fructify, even if the

> clouds shower nectar - Amrita just as well Moorkhas do not realise or

> understand even if their Teacher / Guru is Lord Brahma Himself.

>

> More and more examples can be given from various references but it

> remains a fact of life that divisional charts were not popular due to

> astrologers not having the knowledge in the first place and

> calculations being painstaking in the second. This self demeaing

> behaviour of the astrolger community could have been one of the

> causes for astrologers having been classified as backward classes by

> the Govt. of India.

>

> Om Shri Krishnarpanamastu.

>

> With regards,

> Himanshu Mohan

>

> vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" <guruji@s...>

> wrote:

> >

> > Jaya Jagannatha

> >

> > Dear Jyotisa who criticise the word 'D-Charts' or Divisional charts.

> >

> > Well I know at least two other astrologers other than myself who

> use the

> > divisional charts in deciding the results for the various people of

> a family

> > or other events.

> >

> > 1. Dr B V Raman has used the navämsa extensively as the räsi chart

> although

> > Sages never seem to have mentioned it as per your understanding of

> the

> > slokas.In 'How to Judge a Horoscope' (a strongly recommended book

> by me), he

> > has given some really fine examples and has shown how to read

> the 'houses

> > from the navämsa chart'

> >

> > 2. K.N.Rao has gone even a step further in showing the use of D

> Charts for

> > timing the death of family members (excellent example of the Nehru

> family)

> > and children using the Saptamsa and Dwadasamsa charts. Have you

> read his

> > books? He seems to use D charts all the time.

> >

> > 3. I have gone a step further in giving all the D Charts and their

> usage in

> > Crux of Vedic astrology and my other books like Varga Chakra.

> >

> > In all the cases of the three astrologers (including myself) having

> ample

> > exposure to the classical Pundits and various sources, we have

> learnt to use

> > the D Charts as was originally envisaged (and hope that the larning

> from our

> > elders was not diluted or lost in time) and have shown how to do so

> based on

> > our interpretation and understanding.

> >

> > I cannot reproduce the entire COVA here but if you want I can

> request that a

> > copy be sent to you as there are some very kind hearted people in

> this list.

> > If after reading all that you still fell that Dr Raman, KNR and I

> are wrong

> > in using D charts or feel that there is a different way to use them

> other

> > than the ways shown in the books, please be so kind as to share

> that with

> > us.

> >

> > Without the D Charts you have no hope in making even one prediction

> in

> > Jyotish. For your kind benefit, I am giving two charts of two women

> born a

> > minute apart. Would you like t handle this 'twin chart' and show

> which one

> > has got married? I have many charts of twin births. Most

> interesting cases

> > really and very challenging.

> >

> > Finally, do you Jyotiña draw a navamsa at all or are you trying to

> tell the

> > list that Navamsa chart should not be drawn!!!

> >

> > TO ALL LIST MEMBERS

> >

> > Plese note that the word 'Divisional chart' and D-Chart' were

> coined by

> > K.N.Rao and this has been accepted as standard nomenclature by all

> > astrolgoers of SJC. K.N.Rao has done some great service to the

> world of

> > astrology by this standardisation and drawing of Divisional charts.

> So if

> > anyone tells you that K N Rao does not use D-Charts then it is

> saying te

> > most absurd things about KNR. In case you have any doubts about

> this, please

> > write to Sri K.N.Rao yourself and get an answer from him.I can say

> that we

> > may not see eye to eye in the way we use the D-Charts but to say

> that

> > D-Charts should not be drawn at all is blasphemy!

> >

> > Dr Raman did not use the words D-Charts initially but later he as

> the editor

> > of the Astrological Magazine has encouraged its use and this was

> accepted by

> > the entire world of Jyotish.So if a few are now saying that D-Chats

> don't

> > exist and that Navamsa cannot be drawn, please do not take this as

> the last

> > word as they are no authority at all.

> >

> > May I request someone to forward this to K.N.Rao and get his

> opinion.

> >

> > With best wishes and warm regards,

> > Sanjay Rath

> > * * *

> > Sri Jagannath Center®

> > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road

> > New Delhi 110060, India

> > http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162

> > * * *

March 20, 2005

Arial;color:black">|| Jaya Jagannath ||

Arial;color:black">Dear Vijayadas,

Arial;color:black">

Arial;color:black">If Drekkana has to show more about

siblings, how can this be shown without referring Drekkana

as a chart? As I said before, due to brevity of words, not everything could be

explicitly mentioned in the classics and more than that it was expected that the

it would be taught by a qualified guru, who has been

transferred the knowledge through his parampara.

Arial;color:black">

Arial;color:black">Now see this statement of BPHS:

Arial;color:black">One third of a RÄÅ›i

is called Drekkana. These are totally 36, counted

from Mesh, repeating thrice at the rate of 12 per round. The 1st, 5th

and the 9th RÄÅ›is from a RÄÅ›i are its three Drekkana and are, respectively,

lorded by Narada, Agasthya and Durvash.

Arial;color:black">

Arial;color:black">Here maharishi says that the 1st,

5th and 9th rasis from a rasi

are its drekkana. This means that if a planet is

there in the 2nd drekkana of Aries, then

it would be placed in a sign which is 5th from Aries, i.e., Leo.

Similarly you can find that all the planets in different drekkana

can be similarly mapped to different drekkana signs.

What is the trouble if they are shown in the form of a chart.

Moreover, what can you find about siblings, if not consider drekkana

as a chart. Take the drekkana of the 3rd lord?

Then what? What strength would you findâ€¦ it is known that the trines from

a sign are always friendly, means that the 3rd lord is always well

placed in the drekkana and everyoneâ€™s siblings

should be strong and well to do? Please think if this cannot be used as a full

chart, how else it can be used for finding more details about the siblings!

Arial;color:black">

Arial;color:black">However, if you follow my earlier contention, Maharishi

wanted the divisions to be used as charts, thatâ€™s why he has given the rules

of bhavas etc after describing the divisions; you can know

almost everything about the siblings from the Drekkana.

Arial;color:black">

Arial;color:black">Best Wishes

Arial;color:black">Sarajit

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">

font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">

vijayadas_pradeep [vijayadas_pradeep ]

Monday, March 21, 2005 4:31

AM

vedic astrology

[vedic astrology] Re:

D-Charts

12.0pt">

font-family:"Courier New"">

Dear Shri Sanjay Rath ji

Thanks a lot for taking time in explaining.

I have seen Dr.Raman using navamsha as a full

chart as i have the

books which you have mentioned.Also i know that

shri K.N.Rao ji too

uses Divisionals as charts.

I have also expressed my opinion and Shri Raoji

has read them too.I

also have your Crux of Vedic Astrology.

Giving due respect to all learned astrologers i

beleive a student can

still express his concerns and doubts on a

particular aspect.This does

not mean the student is above them in

understanding.It is just a

particular aspect.

For me it is difficult to consider them as

charts,unless you are kind

enough to explain how it is possible

when classics refer them as amshas or divisions of

houses and not

charts.Also the local texts translated by scholars

of yesteryears

never consider them as charts.

They consider them as vargas of Lagna and Planets.

Could you kindly explain if it was because of

Dr.Ramans and Shri

Raojis usage that you decided to consider them as

Charts or based on

some classical reference.

Divisionals are important and hence can

differentiate strength,even if

we do not use them as charts.

Also lagna in navamsha ,drekkana etc - Do they

represent self or

spouse,siblings etc.This is another doubt.

These are not any attempts to criticize just for

the sake of

criticizing.It is a sincere pursuit.

Also i have full respect for your contributions and

the knowledge i

have gained through your works.

But that does not prevent me from asking doubts

unless i get a

satisfactory answer.

Thanks

Pradeep

vedic astrology,

"Sanjay Rath" <guruji@s...> wrote:

>

> Jaya Jagannatha

>

> Dear Jyotisa who criticise the word

'D-Charts' or Divisional charts.

>

> Well I know at least two other astrologers

other than myself who use the

> divisional charts in deciding the results for

the various people of

a family

> or other events.

>

> 1. Dr B V Raman has used the navÃ¤msa

extensively as the rÃ¤si chart

although

> Sages never seem to have mentioned it as per

your understanding of the

> slokas.In 'How to Judge a Horoscope' (a

strongly recommended book by

me), he

> has given some really fine examples and has

shown how to read the

'houses

> from the navÃ¤msa chart'

>

> 2. K.N.Rao has gone even a step further in

showing the use of D

Charts for

> timing the death of family members (excellent

example of the Nehru

family)

> and children using the Saptamsa and

Dwadasamsa charts. Have you read his

> books? He seems to use D charts all the time.

>

> 3. I have gone a step further in giving all

the D Charts and their

usage in

> Crux of Vedic astrology and my other books

like Varga Chakra.

>

> In all the cases of the three astrologers

(including myself) having

ample

> exposure to the classical Pundits and various

sources, we have

learnt to use

> the D Charts as was originally envisaged (and

hope that the larning

from our

> elders was not diluted or lost in time) and

have shown how to do so

based on

> our interpretation and understanding.

>

> I cannot reproduce the entire COVA here but

if you want I can

request that a

> copy be sent to you as there are some very

kind hearted people in

this list.

> If after reading all that you still fell that

Dr Raman, KNR and I

are wrong

> in using D charts or feel that there is a

different way to use them

other

> than the ways shown in the books, please be

so kind as to share that

with

> us.

>

> Without the D Charts you have no hope in

making even one prediction in

> Jyotish. For your kind benefit, I am giving

two charts of two women

born a

> minute apart. Would you like t handle this

'twin chart' and show

which one

> has got married? I have many charts of twin

births. Most interesting

cases

> really and very challenging.

>

> Finally, do you JyotiÃ±a draw a navamsa at all

or are you trying to

tell the

> list that Navamsa chart should not be

drawn!!!

>

> TO ALL LIST MEMBERS

>

> Plese note that the word 'Divisional chart'

and D-Chart' were coined by

> K.N.Rao and this has been accepted as

standard nomenclature by all

> astrolgoers of SJC. K.N.Rao has done some

great service to the world of

> astrology by this standardisation and drawing

of Divisional charts.

So if

> anyone tells you that K N Rao does not use

D-Charts then it is saying te

> most absurd things about KNR. In case you

have any doubts about

this, please

> write to Sri K.N.Rao yourself and get an

answer from him.I can say

that we

> may not see eye to eye in the way we use the

D-Charts but to say that

> D-Charts should not be drawn at all is

blasphemy!

>

> Dr Raman did not use the words D-Charts

initially but later he as

the editor

> of the Astrological Magazine has encouraged

its use and this was

accepted by

> the entire world of Jyotish.So if a few are

now saying that D-Chats

don't

> exist and that Navamsa cannot be drawn,

please do not take this as

the last

> word as they are no authority at all.

>

> May I request someone to forward this to

K.N.Rao and get his opinion.

>

> With best wishes and warm regards,

> Sanjay Rath

> * * *

> Sri Jagannath CenterÂ®

> 15B Gangaram

Hospital Road

> New Delhi

110060, India

> http://srath.com,

+91-11-25717162

> * * *

To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

vedic astrology-

|| Om

Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||

March 20, 2005

Namaste,

Interesting discussion. KN Rao has extensively used it in his writings

and he also fought with BV Raman based on Ayanamsha. I have read many

of KN Raos books and I find them very interesting and illuminating.

However I have not found use of divisional charts of much use in the

predictions. Many times I have found him making connections by using

aspects in divisional charts and I find that to be a tenuous argument.

I have greatest respect for KN Rao as an astrologer, but that does not

mean I follow his teaching toeto. I have read most of BV Raman's books

and he uses navansha but in most of his writings he focusses on main

rashi chart from lagna , from moon, looks at the house, the lord of

the house and the karaka. In most cases that can tell a lot of story.

I also know of some great astrologer who have not written in English

but have written extensively in Marathi. He has written books on just

"Vrishchkik lagna" he has given and still gives astounding predictions

based mostly on rashi chart. He however does use outer planets hershel

, nepute...I met him six years back at Arsha Vidya Gurukulum in

Pennsylvania where he was an invited guest. I asked him about outer

planets and he says he has seen so many charts that he has developed

jyotish drishti ( he is not psychic and does not go in trans to give

predictions). Looking at chart he will say something like to your

question ....."It will happen in 2nd week of october..." When pressed

as to why ? he will give some transit information...He even does not

rely on dashas that much, if pressed harder, he may say....if you want

you can look at dasha..but it will happen in second week of october.

Having seen all this ,if someone says that

"One can not do jyotish without divisional charts"

I am sorry but I must disagree strongly with you, or anyone who

adheres to this opinion, be it KN rao, BV Raman, or Varahamihira.As

jyotish is pratyaksha shastra I can not ignore the evidence in front

of me, that will be like spitting in the face of own experience. I

have given predictions, have identified periods in jatak lives

sometimes quite closely just by looking at rashi chart. Can I do it on

every single chart..NO. Can anyone ? Unless one is a yogi..NO.

Now coming to the Twins..Ah yes the twins. I do not know whether you

have followed all the discussion on this board. I have said that twins

is a special case and an exception and I do not go formulating rules

for exceptions, its a dangerous habit( having written a book in

Engineering I know a thing or two about scientific rules and

exceptions). lets look at this twin challenge in a different way....

You say, you have charts of twins with 2-4 minute difference in time

and totally different lives and you can explain everything about these

lives with divisional charts. Well wait a minute...Are you suggesting

that all the jataks who ask queries on this list or go for jyotish

readings and get good predictions, all have correct birth times within

minutes and if the birth time was off by two-four minutes their entire

life pattern would have been completle different ? Are you also

suggesting that every jaktak that comes for a reading with a chart

needs birth time rectification ? Yes some trends have to be looked at

and see whether the lagna, I mean rashi lagna, would change if one

moved the time by a few minutes. if that is not the case then I have

seen predictions come pretty close and life patterns match closely

with what is generally going on in a high percentage of cases.

I am sure birth time can not be accurate to within minute for every

single one of them. Also if people who do it professionally spend time

correcting birth times for every jatak they may not be able to see as

many jataks, nor the jatak would be able to afford all this

rectification time of astrologer. Jyotishis I know do make sure that

lagna does not change with afew minutes difference in time.

About Crux of vedic Astrology, I have read it a few years back and

honestly it is a good book, but I found it to be of not much value in

practice when I look at live charts and have to look into the future

or identify past events/trends. Again please do not take it as an

offense, may be I am not evolved enough to apply all these concepts.I

do not think there are many on this list who are either and thats why

I said this is work in progress and the jury is out on these

techniques. After reading about all these arudhas and special lagnas I

thought one will cover all the rashis and some more and it can be used

to justify any event in any chart. Please read about the questions I

posed about fathers' death in earlier discussion.All the SJC gurus on

the list and shisyas please do not take it as an offense as none is

meant, its just my opinion.

Infact after reading your book I went to play tennis and this guy

kicked my butt big time I lost 6-2, 6-2. I was consoling myslef that

may be he kicked my maya pita and my stya pita is still intact :-)

Again Mr. rathji, it is an honor to respond to your questions althogh

they may not be addressed directly to me. I have respect for all the

people who are striving to contribute to jyotish vidya and the

differences are philosophical and technical.I am sure if we ever meet,

who knows, we could be best of friends.

Thanks for your time

....

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 00:08:09 +0530, Sanjay Rath <guruji wrote:

>

> Jaya Jagannatha

>

> Dear Jyotisa who criticise the word 'D-Charts' or Divisional charts.

>

> Well I know at least two other astrologers other than myself who use the

> divisional charts in deciding the results for the various people of a family

> or other events.

>

> 1. Dr B V Raman has used the navämsa extensively as the räsi chart although

> Sages never seem to have mentioned it as per your understanding of the

> slokas.In 'How to Judge a Horoscope' (a strongly recommended book by me), he

> has given some really fine examples and has shown how to read the 'houses

> from the navämsa chart'

>

> 2. K.N.Rao has gone even a step further in showing the use of D Charts for

> timing the death of family members (excellent example of the Nehru family)

> and children using the Saptamsa and Dwadasamsa charts. Have you read his

> books? He seems to use D charts all the time.

>

> 3. I have gone a step further in giving all the D Charts and their usage in

> Crux of Vedic astrology and my other books like Varga Chakra.

>

> In all the cases of the three astrologers (including myself) having ample

> exposure to the classical Pundits and various sources, we have learnt to use

> the D Charts as was originally envisaged (and hope that the larning from our

> elders was not diluted or lost in time) and have shown how to do so based on

> our interpretation and understanding.

>

> I cannot reproduce the entire COVA here but if you want I can request that a

> copy be sent to you as there are some very kind hearted people in this list.

> If after reading all that you still fell that Dr Raman, KNR and I are wrong

> in using D charts or feel that there is a different way to use them other

> than the ways shown in the books, please be so kind as to share that with

> us.

>

> Without the D Charts you have no hope in making even one prediction in

> Jyotish. For your kind benefit, I am giving two charts of two women born a

> minute apart. Would you like t handle this 'twin chart' and show which one

> has got married? I have many charts of twin births. Most interesting cases

> really and very challenging.

>

> Finally, do you Jyotiña draw a navamsa at all or are you trying to tell the

> list that Navamsa chart should not be drawn!!!

>

> TO ALL LIST MEMBERS

>

> Plese note that the word 'Divisional chart' and D-Chart' were coined by

> K.N.Rao and this has been accepted as standard nomenclature by all

> astrolgoers of SJC. K.N.Rao has done some great service to the world of

> astrology by this standardisation and drawing of Divisional charts. So if

> anyone tells you that K N Rao does not use D-Charts then it is saying te

> most absurd things about KNR. In case you have any doubts about this, please

> write to Sri K.N.Rao yourself and get an answer from him.I can say that we

> may not see eye to eye in the way we use the D-Charts but to say that

> D-Charts should not be drawn at all is blasphemy!

>

> Dr Raman did not use the words D-Charts initially but later he as the editor

> of the Astrological Magazine has encouraged its use and this was accepted by

> the entire world of Jyotish.So if a few are now saying that D-Chats don't

> exist and that Navamsa cannot be drawn, please do not take this as the last

> word as they are no authority at all.

>

> May I request someone to forward this to K.N.Rao and get his opinion.

>

> With best wishes and warm regards,

> Sanjay Rath

> * * *

> Sri Jagannath Center®

> 15B Gangaram Hospital Road

> New Delhi 110060, India

> http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162

> * * *

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

> Links

>

March 20, 2005

||Om Namo Bhagwate Vasudevay||

Dear Shri Pradeep,

Sadar Sasneh Abhivadan.

Let me first of all express sincere thanks to you for reading my

message and interacting with me. Let us remember - opinions are

opinions and facts are facts.

Let me answer one by one -

I do not know about others, but I sincerely quote Shri K.N.Rao ji for

Ayanamsha - Chitrapaksha being my favourite and I equally sincerely

disagree with the Raman Ayanamsha.

I have often got incorrect and inexplicable deductions on using Raman

ayanamsha for which my ignorance or lack of knowledge may be the

cause, or maybe not.

As regards not posting for all those six years, although the question

does not pertain much to the present discussion, it is primarily due

to two reasons - firstly, I used to read the messages received

through email, in the form of daily digest and by the time I would

read the whole thread, the issue would have settled.

I have often seen disputes arise and settle on this forum in a most

interesting and educative manner, out of which I would happily agree

with one version, not necessarily the agreed conclusion (without ever

actually entering the argument). The second reason is that I sensed

this discussion going into personal realms rather than the

informative, technical and educative one. With your present message

which I am replying to, I am more convinced that I was right in my

thinking.

The third reason could be ascribed to the fact that everybody has a

right to be saner day by day, and six years is not a short time.

The third question - regarding Dr. Raman, I do not hold any negative

opinion about his schemes except that I do not agree with him always,

not that my agreeing matters. I would like only to add that just like

nobody human can be right everytime everywhere, it follows that

nobody can be wrong everytime evrywhere either. For selection only

humans have been granted the analytic capability.

Here I would like to quote Shri Dattatreya from ShrimadBHAGAWATAM

where he concludes after narrating his lessons learnt from 24 Gurus.

He says that he has concluded after all those learnings from various

Gurus that Guru can only guide in developing one's intellect and

character; ultimately one has to find for himself what is suitable

and ahat is unsuitable.

The transfering of Karakamsha to rashi and chara karaka schemes by

Shri K.N. Rao ji have been supported by his reasearches with solid

foundation of case studies/data. These are not some nice fanciful

flights of imagination termed as deep thinking produced as creative

writings as many of the immature students of astrology indulge into.

It is welcome to have new researches and developments which always

begin with thought process only but are acceptable as rules only when

duly supported by case studies and data. I have submitted my opinion

as asked by you. However, opinions are opinions.

In response to your various other questions, Sir, I humbly submit

that this discussion would become an unending thread, without serving

fruitful purpose. I am not eluding the answers, just postponing them.

I have not been personal, I have not written my messages in such

tone, not intended. In my previous message also I have quoted only

someone else's writings which I agree to most regardfully.

As regards intentions, these are also possible to be found out and

explained correctly, if one uses divisional charts in the proper way.

Let us see it this way - the argument should be Vaad-Vivaad to be

fruitful with Satvic purposes of increasing ones knowledge and

benefitting the community. This argument is smelling highly of RAJAS,

ego's surfacing. Let us consciously avoid it taking the turn

of 'Kalah' lest it becomes TAMAS.

BTW, I agree with your message 52830 which I had not seen before

posting my message. I agrre that usage of Vargas as chakras needs

further explorations and debate, not that I disagree with the usage.

I have seen Jatakabhranam, Jatak Parijat and Phaladeepika also

supporting the usage and importance of divisional charts. These works

do not elaborate how to use these charts and it has been the

interpretation of various translators and commentators that has been

guiding the astrologers since ages.

It is also worth mention that Pandit Gopesh Kumar Ojha has mentioned

in his works that since Ududaya-Pradeep or Laghu Parashari became

famous most of the common astrologers used this as their main guiding

principle. I am inclined to think that this could also be one of the

main reasons for neglect of divisional charts and popularity of

Vimshottari dasha system in the North.

Well, let us explore more and discuss with further details when

available, to be enlightened.

Om Shri Krishnarpanamastu.

Himanshu Mohan

vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep"

<vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:

>

> Dear Shri Himanshu Mohan

>

> If Shri K.N.Raoji and Dr.B.V.Raman can be quoted for supporting

usage

> of vargas as charts,why do we not quote them for ayanamshas and

> charakaraka schemes.Why you were not posting such quotations all

these

> six years?

>

> Do you think Dr.Ramans ayanamsha is wrong and his usage of varga

> chakras are right as it suits our purpose.

>

> What is your opinion about K.N.Raojis chara karaka schemes.Also why

do

> you think shri K.N.Raoji transfers karakamsha over to Rashi.

>

> Also astrologers extensively use vargas during prashna and it is not

> that it is difficult to calculate and hence they are not using them.

> Only regarding their usage as chakras and application one has

doubts.

>

> Also one will have fear only when one has dual intentions.When in

> front of Lord Shiva one can swear his intentions,one need not fear.

>

> Thanks

> Pradeep

>

> vedic astrology, "Himanshu Mohan"

> <himanshu@m...> wrote:

> >

> > ||Om Namo Bhagwate Vasudevay||

> > Guru Shri Sanjay Rath ji,

> > Shraddha-Vandan.

> > I am for the first time posting anything here in last Six

enjoyable

> > years. I quote below from Introduction of 'Learn Successful

> > Predictive Techniques of Hindu Astrology' (Vani Prakashan) by

Shri

> > K.N. Rao on Page 35-36:

> > Line 5 - New para begins -

> > "It has been the most shocking experience of my life and now, of

> > other astrologers, to see the total lack of use of the divisional

> > horoscopes in their writings, in spite of the great emphasis put

on

> > it by Maharshi Parashara. To neglect all that, not even learn

their

> > uses and, claim ti have done some research in astrology is the

most

> > preposterous stand...'

> > Second Para -

> > 'I had struggled very hard with the divisional horoscopes. In

> > 1984 ....Using divisional horoscopes is a brilliant scheme of

> > Maharshi Parashara which cannot be neglected by any serious

> > astrologer.'

> > He further explains that 'It was Sheshadri Iyer who drew the

> > attention of many generations of astrologers to the use of

divisional

> > charts horoscopes'

> > In fact he has discussed this issue many times in his various

books

> > and researches like "Predicting through the Vimshottari

> > Dasha", "Astrological journey through History, Mystery and

> > Horoscopes", Predicting through Jamini's Chara Dasha" etc.

> > The reason I chose to quote from the above reference is that it

is

> > from a beginners book, in easy and chaste english which even

layman

> > can understand. I myself have studied most works of Shri K.N. Rao

> > only recently.

> > I would like to quote Maharshi Parashara's following shloka

(2/13)

> > (again from the second chapter only and 37th shloka from

beginning -

> > Yo Narah Shaastramajnatva Jyotisham khalu Nindati |

> > Rauravam Narakam Bhuktva Chandhatvam Chanyajanmani ||

> >

> > In essence meaning that - "One who criticises Jyotish

(applicable to

> > other knowledge also -classic scriptures also) without knowing

it,

> > goes to hell and becomes blind, maybe in next birth/s."

> >

> > Goswami Tulsidas has written in Shri Ram Charit Manas -

> > Phoolahin Phalahin Na Beint, Jadapi Sudha Barasahin Jalad |

> > Moorakh Hriday Na Chet, Jo Guru Milahin Biranchi Sam ||

> > that is to say - The bamboos do not bloom or fructify, even if

the

> > clouds shower nectar - Amrita just as well Moorkhas do not

realise or

> > understand even if their Teacher / Guru is Lord Brahma Himself.

> >

> > More and more examples can be given from various references but

it

> > remains a fact of life that divisional charts were not popular

due to

> > astrologers not having the knowledge in the first place and

> > calculations being painstaking in the second. This self demeaing

> > behaviour of the astrolger community could have been one of the

> > causes for astrologers having been classified as backward classes

by

> > the Govt. of India.

> >

> > Om Shri Krishnarpanamastu.

> >

> > With regards,

> > Himanshu Mohan

> >

> > vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath"

<guruji@s...>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Jaya Jagannatha

> > >

> > > Dear Jyotisa who criticise the word 'D-Charts' or Divisional

charts.

> > >

> > > Well I know at least two other astrologers other than myself

who

> > use the

> > > divisional charts in deciding the results for the various

people of

> > a family

> > > or other events.

> > >

> > > 1. Dr B V Raman has used the navämsa extensively as the räsi

chart

> > although

> > > Sages never seem to have mentioned it as per your understanding

of

> > the

> > > slokas.In 'How to Judge a Horoscope' (a strongly recommended

book

> > by me), he

> > > has given some really fine examples and has shown how to read

> > the 'houses

> > > from the navämsa chart'

> > >

> > > 2. K.N.Rao has gone even a step further in showing the use of D

> > Charts for

> > > timing the death of family members (excellent example of the

Nehru

> > family)

> > > and children using the Saptamsa and Dwadasamsa charts. Have you

> > read his

> > > books? He seems to use D charts all the time.

> > >

> > > 3. I have gone a step further in giving all the D Charts and

their

> > usage in

> > > Crux of Vedic astrology and my other books like Varga Chakra.

> > >

> > > In all the cases of the three astrologers (including myself)

having

> > ample

> > > exposure to the classical Pundits and various sources, we have

> > learnt to use

> > > the D Charts as was originally envisaged (and hope that the

larning

> > from our

> > > elders was not diluted or lost in time) and have shown how to

do so

> > based on

> > > our interpretation and understanding.

> > >

> > > I cannot reproduce the entire COVA here but if you want I can

> > request that a

> > > copy be sent to you as there are some very kind hearted people

in

> > this list.

> > > If after reading all that you still fell that Dr Raman, KNR and

I

> > are wrong

> > > in using D charts or feel that there is a different way to use

them

> > other

> > > than the ways shown in the books, please be so kind as to share

> > that with

> > > us.

> > >

> > > Without the D Charts you have no hope in making even one

prediction

> > in

> > > Jyotish. For your kind benefit, I am giving two charts of two

women

> > born a

> > > minute apart. Would you like t handle this 'twin chart' and

show

> > which one

> > > has got married? I have many charts of twin births. Most

> > interesting cases

> > > really and very challenging.

> > >

> > > Finally, do you Jyotiña draw a navamsa at all or are you trying

to

> > tell the

> > > list that Navamsa chart should not be drawn!!!

> > >

> > > TO ALL LIST MEMBERS

> > >

> > > Plese note that the word 'Divisional chart' and D-Chart' were

> > coined by

> > > K.N.Rao and this has been accepted as standard nomenclature by

all

> > > astrolgoers of SJC. K.N.Rao has done some great service to the

> > world of

> > > astrology by this standardisation and drawing of Divisional

charts.

> > So if

> > > anyone tells you that K N Rao does not use D-Charts then it is

> > saying te

> > > most absurd things about KNR. In case you have any doubts about

> > this, please

> > > write to Sri K.N.Rao yourself and get an answer from him.I can

say

> > that we

> > > may not see eye to eye in the way we use the D-Charts but to

say

> > that

> > > D-Charts should not be drawn at all is blasphemy!

> > >

> > > Dr Raman did not use the words D-Charts initially but later he

as

> > the editor

> > > of the Astrological Magazine has encouraged its use and this

was

> > accepted by

> > > the entire world of Jyotish.So if a few are now saying that D-

Chats

> > don't

> > > exist and that Navamsa cannot be drawn, please do not take this

as

> > the last

> > > word as they are no authority at all.

> > >

> > > May I request someone to forward this to K.N.Rao and get his

> > opinion.

> > >

> > > With best wishes and warm regards,

> > > Sanjay Rath

> > > * * *

> > > Sri Jagannath Center®

> > > 15B Gangaram Hospital Road

> > > New Delhi 110060, India

> > > http://srath.com, +91-11-25717162

> > > * * *

March 20, 2005