Sanskrit: parivrtti?

March 15, 2005

Dear list members,

I would be very grateful if any learned list members could advise me

with regard to a question about the possible meanings of the

Sanskrit term "parivrtti" (sorry about the transcription,

pointed "r" of course). As you know, this is used in slokas III.56

and III.57 of BPHS in the definition of the hora and drekkana charts:

III.56: Raserdhambhavethora taschaturvimsath smrtah

Meshadi tasam horanam parivrttidvayam bhavet

III.57: Rasitribhaga drekkanasteca shadtrimsadeeritah

Parivrttitrayam tesham Meshadeh kramaso bhavet

As we saw in a recent detailed posting by Sri Narasimha Rao, the

drekkana definition also includes further indications concerning the

1-5-9 arrangement of the drekkana. Similarly, the hora definition

given just before the above one, in III.55 seems to propose a simple

division into rulership by Sun or Moon (Sun for 1st half of odd

signs and 2nd half of even signs, Moon vice-versa). There are a

number of ways that learned astrologers have sought to reconcile

these two definitions, some of which are included as options in JH

program. I have also heard of a different interpretation of the

Sun/Moon rulership, not included in JH: the first half of an odd

rasi is the hora of itself, the second half is the hora of the next

rasi; whereas the second hora of an even rasi is itself and the

first half is the next rasi. Ie: horas of Mesha would be Mesha-

Vrishabha; horas of Vrishabha would be Mithuna-Vrishabha; horas of

Mithuna would be Mithuna-Kartaka; horas of Kartaka would be Simha-

Kartaka, etc. In this way there is a continuous movement through the

zodiac, without jumps or gaps, but with a "zig-zag" movement, and a

retrograde sequence of subdivisions in the even rasis. As even rasis

are often considered to be "negative" or feminine", they could also

be considered to be "lunar", so this might allow the construction of

a real chart using the "Sun/Moon" rulerships as proposed by sloka

III.55.

My knowledge of Sanskrit is very rudimentary: just vocabulary and

root-etymologies, practically no grammar, and only in transcription.

So what I would like to know from anyone with good knowledge of

Sanskrit is: could the definition I have described above also

correspond to a possible definition of the term "parivrtti", and

more particularly "parivrttidvayam". I know that is usually

translated in Jyotish as meaning "a revolution through the zodiac in

Regular cyclic order from 0° to 360° or From Mesha to Meena",

so "parivrttidvayam" would mean "cycling the twelve rasis twice

from Mesha". But since Sanskrit is a complex and very dense and

concise language, and since the element "-dvayam" is here in the

visesya (qualified) position rather than in the visesana

(qualifying) position, I would like to know if it could possibly

ALSO mean "there is a cyclic movement in pairs" -- possibly with a

reversal of direction in successive odd and even signs, ie. a "zig-

zag" movement.

I know, for example, that in yoga asana, "parivritti" means a twist

posture, first in one direction, then in the other. Also, T.K.V.

Desikachar (son of Krishnamacharya of Chennai) says in an interview

that in yoga practice we are sometimes led to change direction in

our lives: "This sense of reorientation is communicated in the

Sanskrit term "parivritti"... seeing a bit ahead and redirection is

what is meant by the concept of "parivritti"."

Also, the Western words derived from the Sanskrit root "pari-"

sometimes mean "round in the same direction" (eg. periphery),

sometimes "turning in a new direction" (eg. peripetia: a sudden

change of direction of fortune, as in Greek tragedy). And in Vedic

astrology itself, while we have "paridhi" (circumference)

and "parikrama" (revolution), we also have "parivarthana" (exchange

of places).

So what I am really asking is: could "parivritti", AS WELL AS

referring to a movement round and round (like the hands of a clock),

also POSSIBLY signify a movement turning back and forth (like the

thread on a weaver's loom).

I would be very grateful indeed if anyone could help me to clarify

my thinking on this point, or simply to give an opinion, either via

the forum or directly to me.

Very best wishes to all.

Graham Fox

March 15, 2005

|| Shree Rama Jaya||

Dear Graham,

Let me try it express it as I understood from various references

parivritti = pari + vritti

pari

----

'pari' is prefix to word, It's a preposition, to indicate

pari = successively, round, round about, fully, abundantly, beyond,

more than.

Possibly, the root word for the prefix 'pari' is 'pR^i'

pR^i = to protect.

to surpass, to excell, to overcome, to bring out of, etc

Possibly the english 'pre' is also from same derivation. But the

meanings are more in sanskrit in it seems.

Some usage in the following words can give an idea.

pariMaana = pari+maaNa = to find the extent, to measure like

circumference,length etc.(Used as proof etc)

parikalpana= pari+kalpana(creating/imagining) = contriving,

inventing, reckoning etc.

paricaksha = pari+caksha(see) = overlook, despise, reject.

parijaat = pari+jaata(born/grown) = fully developed, begotten by

Now for the word,

vritti

------

Vritti is from vR^it ('v' followed by ch'ri'stmas like ri or like in

k'ri'shna)

Monier Williams gives meaning as

vR^it

"surrounding , enclosing , obstructing

a troop of followers or soldiers , army , host"

vR^iti

surrounding. covering W. a hedge , fence , an enclosed piece of ground

or place enclosed for partic. cultivation (esp. that of the Piper

Betel , which in many parts of India is surrounded and screened by

mats) Mn. MBh. &c.

vR^itta

"round , rounded , circular, a circle (In Ganit/Maths)"

So In short parivR^itti means

"going around and around" maybe thus forming multiple circles.

or

"a circle enclosing another"

Warm Regards

Sanjay P

Om Tat Sat

vedic astrology, "Graham Fox" <fox.graham@w...>

wrote:

>

> Dear list members,

> I would be very grateful if any learned list members could advise me

> with regard to a question about the possible meanings of the

> Sanskrit term "parivrtti" (sorry about the transcription,

> pointed "r" of course). As you know, this is used in slokas III.56

> and III.57 of BPHS in the definition of the hora and drekkana charts:

> III.56: Raserdhambhavethora taschaturvimsath smrtah

> Meshadi tasam horanam parivrttidvayam bhavet

> III.57: Rasitribhaga drekkanasteca shadtrimsadeeritah

> Parivrttitrayam tesham Meshadeh kramaso bhavet

> As we saw in a recent detailed posting by Sri Narasimha Rao, the

> drekkana definition also includes further indications concerning the

> 1-5-9 arrangement of the drekkana. Similarly, the hora definition

> given just before the above one, in III.55 seems to propose a simple

> division into rulership by Sun or Moon (Sun for 1st half of odd

> signs and 2nd half of even signs, Moon vice-versa). There are a

> number of ways that learned astrologers have sought to reconcile

> these two definitions, some of which are included as options in JH

> program. I have also heard of a different interpretation of the

> Sun/Moon rulership, not included in JH: the first half of an odd

> rasi is the hora of itself, the second half is the hora of the next

> rasi; whereas the second hora of an even rasi is itself and the

> first half is the next rasi. Ie: horas of Mesha would be Mesha-

> Vrishabha; horas of Vrishabha would be Mithuna-Vrishabha; horas of

> Mithuna would be Mithuna-Kartaka; horas of Kartaka would be Simha-

> Kartaka, etc. In this way there is a continuous movement through the

> zodiac, without jumps or gaps, but with a "zig-zag" movement, and a

> retrograde sequence of subdivisions in the even rasis. As even rasis

> are often considered to be "negative" or feminine", they could also

> be considered to be "lunar", so this might allow the construction of

> a real chart using the "Sun/Moon" rulerships as proposed by sloka

> III.55.

> My knowledge of Sanskrit is very rudimentary: just vocabulary and

> root-etymologies, practically no grammar, and only in transcription.

> So what I would like to know from anyone with good knowledge of

> Sanskrit is: could the definition I have described above also

> correspond to a possible definition of the term "parivrtti", and

> more particularly "parivrttidvayam". I know that is usually

> translated in Jyotish as meaning "a revolution through the zodiac in

> Regular cyclic order from 0° to 360° or From Mesha to Meena",

> so "parivrttidvayam" would mean "cycling the twelve rasis twice

> from Mesha". But since Sanskrit is a complex and very dense and

> concise language, and since the element "-dvayam" is here in the

> visesya (qualified) position rather than in the visesana

> (qualifying) position, I would like to know if it could possibly

> ALSO mean "there is a cyclic movement in pairs" -- possibly with a

> reversal of direction in successive odd and even signs, ie. a "zig-

> zag" movement.

> I know, for example, that in yoga asana, "parivritti" means a twist

> posture, first in one direction, then in the other. Also, T.K.V.

> Desikachar (son of Krishnamacharya of Chennai) says in an interview

> that in yoga practice we are sometimes led to change direction in

> our lives: "This sense of reorientation is communicated in the

> Sanskrit term "parivritti"... seeing a bit ahead and redirection is

> what is meant by the concept of "parivritti"."

> Also, the Western words derived from the Sanskrit root "pari-"

> sometimes mean "round in the same direction" (eg. periphery),

> sometimes "turning in a new direction" (eg. peripetia: a sudden

> change of direction of fortune, as in Greek tragedy). And in Vedic

> astrology itself, while we have "paridhi" (circumference)

> and "parikrama" (revolution), we also have "parivarthana" (exchange

> of places).

> So what I am really asking is: could "parivritti", AS WELL AS

> referring to a movement round and round (like the hands of a clock),

> also POSSIBLY signify a movement turning back and forth (like the

> thread on a weaver's loom).

> I would be very grateful indeed if anyone could help me to clarify

> my thinking on this point, or simply to give an opinion, either via

> the forum or directly to me.

> Very best wishes to all.

> Graham Fox

March 15, 2005

Dear Sanjay,

Thank you very much for this help. I had understood that "pari-" is

a preposition, and can have broadly the senses that you describe. I

understood from study of the Yoga Sutra that "vritti" meant

more "movement, whirling, turning", but your explanation is very

helpful as regards astrology. It would seem to discount Desikachar's

interpretation of "parivritti" (in yoga, at least) as implying a

change of direction. Thank you for clarifying.

Of course, I would be very interested to hear any other views on the

matter.

Best wishes

Graham

vedic astrology, sanjaychettiar@g... wrote:

>

> || Shree Rama Jaya||

> Dear Graham,

>

> Let me try it express it as I understood from various references

>

> parivritti = pari + vritti

>

> pari

> ----

> 'pari' is prefix to word, It's a preposition, to indicate

>

> pari = successively, round, round about, fully, abundantly, beyond,

> more than.

>

> Possibly, the root word for the prefix 'pari' is 'pR^i'

>

> pR^i = to protect.

> to surpass, to excell, to overcome, to bring out of, etc

>

> Possibly the english 'pre' is also from same derivation. But the

> meanings are more in sanskrit in it seems.

>

> Some usage in the following words can give an idea.

>

> pariMaana = pari+maaNa = to find the extent, to measure like

> circumference,length etc.(Used as proof etc)

>

> parikalpana= pari+kalpana(creating/imagining) = contriving,

> inventing, reckoning etc.

>

> paricaksha = pari+caksha(see) = overlook, despise, reject.

>

> parijaat = pari+jaata(born/grown) = fully developed, begotten by

>

> Now for the word,

> vritti

> ------

>

> Vritti is from vR^it ('v' followed by ch'ri'stmas like ri or like

in

> k'ri'shna)

>

> Monier Williams gives meaning as

>

> vR^it

>

> "surrounding , enclosing , obstructing

> a troop of followers or soldiers , army , host"

>

> vR^iti

>

> surrounding. covering W. a hedge , fence , an enclosed piece of

ground

> or place enclosed for partic. cultivation (esp. that of the Piper

> Betel , which in many parts of India is surrounded and screened by

> mats) Mn. MBh. &c.

>

> vR^itta

>

> "round , rounded , circular, a circle (In Ganit/Maths)"

>

> So In short parivR^itti means

>

> "going around and around" maybe thus forming multiple circles.

>

> or

>

> "a circle enclosing another"

>

> Warm Regards

> Sanjay P

>

> Om Tat Sat

>

> vedic astrology, "Graham Fox"

<fox.graham@w...>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear list members,

> > I would be very grateful if any learned list members could

advise me

> > with regard to a question about the possible meanings of the

> > Sanskrit term "parivrtti" (sorry about the transcription,

> > pointed "r" of course). As you know, this is used in slokas

III.56

> > and III.57 of BPHS in the definition of the hora and drekkana

charts:

> > III.56: Raserdhambhavethora taschaturvimsath smrtah

> > Meshadi tasam horanam parivrttidvayam bhavet

> > III.57: Rasitribhaga drekkanasteca shadtrimsadeeritah

> > Parivrttitrayam tesham Meshadeh kramaso bhavet

> > As we saw in a recent detailed posting by Sri Narasimha Rao, the

> > drekkana definition also includes further indications concerning

the

> > 1-5-9 arrangement of the drekkana. Similarly, the hora

definition

> > given just before the above one, in III.55 seems to propose a

simple

> > division into rulership by Sun or Moon (Sun for 1st half of odd

> > signs and 2nd half of even signs, Moon vice-versa). There are a

> > number of ways that learned astrologers have sought to reconcile

> > these two definitions, some of which are included as options in

JH

> > program. I have also heard of a different interpretation of the

> > Sun/Moon rulership, not included in JH: the first half of an odd

> > rasi is the hora of itself, the second half is the hora of the

> > first half is the next rasi. Ie: horas of Mesha would be Mesha-

> > Vrishabha; horas of Vrishabha would be Mithuna-Vrishabha; horas

of

> > Mithuna would be Mithuna-Kartaka; horas of Kartaka would be

Simha-

> > Kartaka, etc. In this way there is a continuous movement through

the

> > zodiac, without jumps or gaps, but with a "zig-zag" movement,

and a

> > retrograde sequence of subdivisions in the even rasis. As even

rasis

> > are often considered to be "negative" or feminine", they could

also

> > be considered to be "lunar", so this might allow the

construction of

> > a real chart using the "Sun/Moon" rulerships as proposed by

sloka

> > III.55.

> > My knowledge of Sanskrit is very rudimentary: just vocabulary

and

> > root-etymologies, practically no grammar, and only in

transcription.

> > So what I would like to know from anyone with good knowledge of

> > Sanskrit is: could the definition I have described above also

> > correspond to a possible definition of the term "parivrtti", and

> > more particularly "parivrttidvayam". I know that is usually

> > translated in Jyotish as meaning "a revolution through the

zodiac in

> > Regular cyclic order from 0° to 360° or From Mesha to Meena",

> > so "parivrttidvayam" would mean "cycling the twelve rasis twice

> > from Mesha". But since Sanskrit is a complex and very dense and

> > concise language, and since the element "-dvayam" is here in the

> > visesya (qualified) position rather than in the visesana

> > (qualifying) position, I would like to know if it could possibly

> > ALSO mean "there is a cyclic movement in pairs" -- possibly with

a

> > reversal of direction in successive odd and even signs, ie.

a "zig-

> > zag" movement.

> > I know, for example, that in yoga asana, "parivritti" means a

twist

> > posture, first in one direction, then in the other. Also, T.K.V.

> > Desikachar (son of Krishnamacharya of Chennai) says in an

interview

> > that in yoga practice we are sometimes led to change direction in

> > our lives: "This sense of reorientation is communicated in the

> > Sanskrit term "parivritti"... seeing a bit ahead and redirection

is

> > what is meant by the concept of "parivritti"."

> > Also, the Western words derived from the Sanskrit root "pari-"

> > sometimes mean "round in the same direction" (eg. periphery),

> > sometimes "turning in a new direction" (eg. peripetia: a sudden

> > change of direction of fortune, as in Greek tragedy). And in

Vedic

> > astrology itself, while we have "paridhi" (circumference)

> > and "parikrama" (revolution), we also have "parivarthana"

(exchange

> > of places).

> > So what I am really asking is: could "parivritti", AS WELL AS

> > referring to a movement round and round (like the hands of a

clock),

> > also POSSIBLY signify a movement turning back and forth (like the

> > thread on a weaver's loom).

> > I would be very grateful indeed if anyone could help me to

clarify

> > my thinking on this point, or simply to give an opinion, either

via

> > the forum or directly to me.

> > Very best wishes to all.

> > Graham Fox

April 23, 2014

I know this was posted years ago, and the answer has been addressed, but just thought I'd share a succinct answer from Desikachar in writing from The Heart of Yoga. Desikachar seems to tie the ideas together by defining parivrtti as literally: “Movement around,” and goes on to further describe it as "the ability to foresee what is going to happen and redirect oneself accordingly."