Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Swadhin jee, Though I couldn't properly answer your query but you yourself explain the problem very well. Even you convinced me. Apart from it, the word critism/critique is often misunderstood (tantamount to fault finding) in our society, whilst its is a scientific and rational way to convay your objection or doubts. I used the word in later meanings. Your attainment seems well and deep. If you have any observation or understanding of time/space sub-divisions and their modern meansings then please share. Treuly speaking, I am inspired. Imran --- Swadhin <beherajapan wrote: > > Dear Imran and All > > I did not get the answer and Imran I don't know why > you thought my > message as a criticism and why you thought I > consider astrology as > static. I know the importance of time and space in a > chart. My > question was how this time and space consideration > changes with > time. Is the time-space consideration in a chart > automatically > taking care of the evolution of the planet or the > original givers > did not consider this aspect of earth. You mentioned > about change in > interpretation of a person's career with time. As I > understand it is > based on an empirical relation that contemporary > astrologers must > develop by themselves. For example, I don't need any > knowledge in > astrology to predict a student in X training center > to be in US > after a couple of years. My success of prediction > will be 80%. This > is because I know that 8 out of ten students of this > software > training institute go to US. Since this kind of > contemporary > interpretation is external to the internal time and > space > calculation, it defeats the theory that everything > is already > included in the time and space relations. It will > sound ridiculous > if I say a career of hydrogen-oxygen neutron > conversion engineer in > planet Mars. I will not be surprised if a > contemporary astrologer > predicts a career like that, 300 years from now. > > Coming back to my original point; I understand that > the original > theories might have considered the evolution of time > and space. The > statement I am going to make now is based on the > understanding that > I gather from local pandits from rural places in > Orissa. These local > astrologers most of whom have not seen high schools > surprise me by > their brilliant interpretation and accurate > predictions. Some of > them told me that time is divided into 4 yugas; > sataya, dwapara, > treteya and kali. Each yoga is again subdivided into > several sub- > periods. I think most of you already know about > these time > partitions. The partition of yugas is mainly based > on the principle > of the percentage of truth and false. But there are > other parameters > like the percentage of pancha mahabutha. In each of > those yugas a > certain element becomes stronger and that helps in > giving a > particular shape to a particular space. There are > also divisions of > space, swarge, martyia and patal; in contemporary > terms those are > developed, developing and underdeveloped worlds. > Consider an X > person is in a developed country in the best period > of time; he will > be always better than a person in underdeveloped > country at any > time – in absolute terms. If the person's wealth in > the developed > country falls below the poverty line of that region, > he will have > experience of poverty but his living standard will > be higher than > underdeveloped region. By chance if he comes to the > underdeveloped > world the same amount of wealth will make him enjoy > a rich life. > However, since he has to live in patal, he must > adjust himself to > the patal environment and he can not expect to get > all pleasures of > swarga. To cut the long story short this > interpretation might help > to some extent to understand the intrinsinc nature > of time and space > relation, it did not answer the basic question how > the evolution of > the society might be inherent in a person's chart. > > You may be aware of global warming issue and may > know that the > anthropogenic gases being emitted by the rapid phase > of development > taken up by the human society. But you may not be > aware that this > global warming actually averted an ice age which was > due based on > sun and earth orbital change. In other words the > dynamic humanoids > of the dynamic planet earth unwittingly saved > themselves. Can our > time-space calculations see that? I don't know and > it is not a > criticism. > > About my point on marriage prediction of young > girls; my local > astrologers told me that in general there always > exists a first > marriage yoga around the age of 17 and 18 with > secondary and > tertiary yogas in latter lives of most females. But > with changing > time, they change the interpretations; sometime > giving importance to > first one, in other times to second or third. > Jokingly they warned > me to be alert for my daughter during the first > phase of marriage > yoga considering present day situations in western > world which is > also fast approaching in India. > > I feel uneasy about remedial astrology. I believe > that prayers work > to alleviate or at least reduce certain difficulties > in live. But > once we consider such a change, the path of karma > and our journey > through life is not linear. I am comfortable if > someone says > everything is made in time and we just experience > it; we need the > body to experience it and parents provide the > window. Perfect. But > with remedial measure or bad deeds we can change the > path originally > designed. This is dynamic and non-linear. Then it > will be extremely > difficult to trace our past and future. Hopefully > some gurus will > enlighten us on these issues. > > Swadhin > > Dear Swadhin, > > > > The critique you made was reasonable if one > consider > > the astrology as static. But in reality, astrology > is > > dynamic. > > > > There are two faces of every object in this world, > > soul and body. Soul is universal and beyond time > and > > space but the body is subject to time and space. > In a > > similar way, astrological priciples and theories > can > > be described. > > > > In astrology, objective principles of planets, > signs, > > houses, etc. donot change but thier realization > and > > manifestation depend upon the time and space. > > > > Say, if a person of ancient time has exalted Sun > in > > 10th house, means he would earn by forest and fire > > work. In 500 years ago, this combination led to > > earning through King's court or warlordship. But > at > > present, it may be said that the person would be a > > manager/director in multinational company or a > > Bureaucrat. > > > > Similarly space matters also. Identical > combinations > > in chart of different nationals cause different > > results. Lets say two person born in a same day > with > > same charts. But one born in Japan and another one > is > > in Afghanistan. Obviously the person born in Japan > > naturally has greater probability of longevity, > good > > food and improved education as compare to the > person > > born in Afghanistan with identical natal chart. > > > > Your another point was regarding long-run social > > changes and validity of astrology. This issue is > > addressed by 'mundane astrology'. Although tools > of > > mundane astrology has not reached that attainment, > > needs to rank it a 'science'. But it is hoped > that > > sooner or latter astrology would surely able to > answer > > such socio-economic behavior with greater > certainity. > > > > M.Imran > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Partha Sarathy <partvinu@g...> wrote: > > > > > Dear Swadhin > > > > > > So you have just proved that astrologers also > > > require common sense > > > best wishes > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 02:58:19 -0000, Swadhin > > > <beherajapan> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear List Members: > > > > > > > > I am curious how the astrologers adapt to > changing > > > time in the > > > > society. For example, several decades ago a > > > prediction of girl's > > > > marriage at age of 15 or 16 was mostly > correct. If > > > someone gives > > > > similar prediction now, he will be shown the > door. > > > How did > > > > prediction change now though principle of > > > prediction is based on the > > > > same old theories? > > > > > > > > Several hundreds years ago, cost of living was > so > > > high that it was > > > > enough to predict a well to do living for > personal > > > satisfaction. The > > > > definition of wealth is different now and > wealth > > > is more distributed. > > > > > > > > Several thousand years before, the threat > > > perception to human > > > > longevity was mostly due to wild animals, > reptiles > > > etc. Now it is > > > > more due to health, vehicular accidents, wars > etc. > > > What aspect of > > > > vedic astrology takes care of such > developmental > > > changes in the > > > > planet? > > > > > > > > Can astrology be used in social studies? For > > > example, it can be > > > > attempted to understand and predict migration > of > > > people from one > > > > region to another and how it affects the > regional > > > social and > > > > economical status. > > > > > > > > Swadhin > > > > > > > > > > > > Archives: > > > vedic astrology > > > > > > > > Group info: > > > > > > vedic astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to > > > vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us > ....... > > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri > > > Krishnaarpanamastu || > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > V.Partha Sarathy, > > > partvinu.blogspot.com > > > > > > All that we are is the result of what we have > > > thought. If a man speaks > > > or acts with an evil thought, pain follows him. > If a > > > man speaks or > > > acts with a pure thought, happiness follows him, > > > like a shadow that > > > never leaves him. > > > -----Buddha > > > > > > > > > Plot.no.71 > > > Road No.3 > > > Nagarjuna Hills > > > Hyderabad > > > India-500 082 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > protection around > > > > > > ===== O SERVANT, where dost thou seek Me? Lo! I am beside thee. I am neither in temple nor in mosque: I am neither in Kaaba nor in Kailash: Neither am I in rites and ceremonies, nor in Yoga and renunciation. If thou art a true seeker, thou shalt at once see Me: thou shalt meet Me in a moment of time. Kabîr says, "O Sadhu! God is the breath of all breath." Mail - You care about security. So do we. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Dear Imran sahab: Thanks for your encouragements. I am still a novice compared to your level of attainment. Just like a young student, I am curious about basic aspects of jyotishi. It is a great science; under valued and under utilized. I wish I have more spare time to spend on this hobby. I sure will share my understanding once I have a meaningful insight. SwadhinMuhammad Imran <astroimran > wrote: Swadhin jee,Though I couldn't properly answer your query but youyourself explain the problem very well. Even youconvinced me.Apart from it, the word critism/critique is oftenmisunderstood (tantamount to fault finding) in oursociety, whilst its is a scientific and rational wayto convay your objection or doubts. I used the word inlater meanings.Your attainment seems well and deep. If you have anyobservation or understanding of time/spacesub-divisions and their modern meansings then pleaseshare.Treuly speaking, I am inspired.Imran--- Swadhin wrote:> > Dear Imran and All> > I did not get the answer and Imran I don't know why> you thought my > message as a criticism and why you thought I> consider astrology as > static. I know the importance of time and space in a> chart. My > question was how this time and space consideration> changes with > time. Is the time-space consideration in a chart> automatically > taking care of the evolution of the planet or the> original givers > did not consider this aspect of earth. You mentioned> about change in > interpretation of a person's career with time. As I> understand it is > based on an empirical relation that contemporary> astrologers must > develop by themselves. For example, I don't need any> knowledge in > astrology to predict a student in X training center> to be in US > after a couple of years. My success of prediction> will be 80%. This > is because I know that 8 out of ten students of this> software > training institute go to US. Since this kind of> contemporary > interpretation is external to the internal time and> space > calculation, it defeats the theory that everything> is already > included in the time and space relations. It will> sound ridiculous > if I say a career of hydrogen-oxygen neutron> conversion engineer in > planet Mars. I will not be surprised if a> contemporary astrologer > predicts a career like that, 300 years from now.> > Coming back to my original point; I understand that> the original > theories might have considered the evolution of time> and space. The > statement I am going to make now is based on the> understanding that > I gather from local pandits from rural places in> Orissa. These local > astrologers most of whom have not seen high schools> surprise me by > their brilliant interpretation and accurate> predictions. Some of > them told me that time is divided into 4 yugas;> sataya, dwapara, > treteya and kali. Each yoga is again subdivided into> several sub-> periods. I think most of you already know about> these time > partitions. The partition of yugas is mainly based> on the principle > of the percentage of truth and false. But there are> other parameters > like the percentage of pancha mahabutha. In each of> those yugas a > certain element becomes stronger and that helps in> giving a > particular shape to a particular space. There are> also divisions of > space, swarge, martyia and patal; in contemporary> terms those are > developed, developing and underdeveloped worlds.> Consider an X > person is in a developed country in the best period> of time; he will > be always better than a person in underdeveloped> country at any > time – in absolute terms. If the person's wealth in> the developed > country falls below the poverty line of that region,> he will have > experience of poverty but his living standard will> be higher than > underdeveloped region. By chance if he comes to the> underdeveloped > world the same amount of wealth will make him enjoy> a rich life. > However, since he has to live in patal, he must> adjust himself to > the patal environment and he can not expect to get> all pleasures of > swarga. To cut the long story short this> interpretation might help > to some extent to understand the intrinsinc nature> of time and space > relation, it did not answer the basic question how> the evolution of > the society might be inherent in a person's chart.> > You may be aware of global warming issue and may> know that the > anthropogenic gases being emitted by the rapid phase> of development > taken up by the human society. But you may not be> aware that this > global warming actually averted an ice age which was> due based on > sun and earth orbital change. In other words the> dynamic humanoids > of the dynamic planet earth unwittingly saved> themselves. Can our > time-space calculations see that? I don't know and> it is not a > criticism.> > About my point on marriage prediction of young> girls; my local > astrologers told me that in general there always> exists a first > marriage yoga around the age of 17 and 18 with> secondary and > tertiary yogas in latter lives of most females. But> with changing > time, they change the interpretations; sometime> giving importance to > first one, in other times to second or third.> Jokingly they warned > me to be alert for my daughter during the first> phase of marriage > yoga considering present day situations in western> world which is > also fast approaching in India.> > I feel uneasy about remedial astrology. I believe> that prayers work > to alleviate or at least reduce certain difficulties> in live. But > once we consider such a change, the path of karma> and our journey > through life is not linear. I am comfortable if> someone says > everything is made in time and we just experience> it; we need the > body to experience it and parents provide the> window. Perfect. But > with remedial measure or bad deeds we can change the> path originally > designed. This is dynamic and non-linear. Then it> will be extremely > difficult to trace our past and future. Hopefully> some gurus will > enlighten us on these issues. > > Swadhin> > Dear Swadhin,> > > > The critique you made was reasonable if one> consider> > the astrology as static. But in reality, astrology> is> > dynamic. > > > > There are two faces of every object in this world,> > soul and body. Soul is universal and beyond time> and> > space but the body is subject to time and space.> In a> > similar way, astrological priciples and theories> can> > be described.> > > > In astrology, objective principles of planets,> signs,> > houses, etc. donot change but thier realization> and> > manifestation depend upon the time and space. > > > > Say, if a person of ancient time has exalted Sun> in> > 10th house, means he would earn by forest and fire> > work. In 500 years ago, this combination led to> > earning through King's court or warlordship. But> at> > present, it may be said that the person would be a> > manager/director in multinational company or a> > Bureaucrat.> > > > Similarly space matters also. Identical> combinations> > in chart of different nationals cause different> > results. Lets say two person born in a same day> with> > same charts. But one born in Japan and another one> is> > in Afghanistan. Obviously the person born in Japan> > naturally has greater probability of longevity,> good> > food and improved education as compare to the> person> > born in Afghanistan with identical natal chart. > > > > Your another point was regarding long-run social> > changes and validity of astrology. This issue is> > addressed by 'mundane astrology'. Although tools> of> > mundane astrology has not reached that attainment,> > needs to rank it a 'science'. But it is hoped> that> > sooner or latter astrology would surely able to> answer> > such socio-economic behavior with greater> certainity.> > > > M.Imran> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Partha Sarathy wrote:> > > > > Dear Swadhin> > > > > > So you have just proved that astrologers also> > > require common sense> > > best wishes> > > partha> > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 02:58:19 -0000, Swadhin> > > wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear List Members:> > > > > > > > I am curious how the astrologers adapt to> changing> > > time in the> > > > society. For example, several decades ago a> > > prediction of girl's> > > > marriage at age of 15 or 16 was mostly> correct. If> > > someone gives> > > > similar prediction now, he will be shown the> door.> > > How did> > > > prediction change now though principle of> > > prediction is based on the> > > > same old theories?> > > > > > > > Several hundreds years ago, cost of living was> so> > > high that it was> > > > enough to predict a well to do living for> personal> > > satisfaction. The> > > > definition of wealth is different now and> wealth> > > is more distributed.> > > > > > > > Several thousand years before, the threat> > > perception to human> > > > longevity was mostly due to wild animals,> reptiles> > > etc. Now it is> > > > more due to health, vehicular accidents, wars> etc.> > > What aspect of> > > > vedic astrology takes care of such> developmental> > > changes in the> > > > planet?> > > > > > > > Can astrology be used in social studies? For> > > example, it can be> > > > attempted to understand and predict migration> of> > > people from one> > > > region to another and how it affects the> regional> > > social and> > > > economical status.> > > > > > > > Swadhin> > > > > > > > > > > > Archives:> > > vedic astrology> > > > > > > > Group info:> > >> >>vedic astrology/info.html> > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to> > > vedic astrology-> > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us> .......> > > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri> > > Krishnaarpanamastu ||> > > > Links> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > V.Partha Sarathy, > > > partvinu.blogspot.com> > > > > > All that we are is the result of what we have> > > thought. If a man speaks> > > or acts with an evil thought, pain follows him.> If a> > > man speaks or> > > acts with a pure thought, happiness follows him,> > > like a shadow that> > > never leaves him.> > > -----Buddha > > > > > > > > > Plot.no.71> > > Road No.3> > > Nagarjuna Hills> > > Hyderabad> > > India-500 082> > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam> protection around > > > > > > =====O SERVANT, where dost thou seek Me?Lo! I am beside thee.I am neither in temple nor in mosque: I am neither in Kaaba nor in Kailash:Neither am I in rites and ceremonies, nor in Yoga and renunciation.If thou art a true seeker, thou shalt at once see Me: thou shalt meet Me in a moment of time.Kabîr says, "O Sadhu! God is the breath of all breath." Mail - You care about security. So do we. Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.