2-Shipal, Ramakrishna, & all, RE: Aspect v/s Placement, > Mark Kincaid

[Guest guest]

Dear Shripal:

See below:

> Shripal <d_shripal >

> Wed, 19 Jan 2005 21:54:45 -0800 (PST)

> Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid (AT) mchsi (DOT) com>

> 2-Shipal, Ramakrishna, & all, RE: Aspect v/s Placement, > Mark

> Kincaid

>

> Hi Mark and All.

>

> thanks Mark,

>

> Yes,exactly when transit moves over your natal

> placement,so what is working,isn't it aspect that is

> working.

I find there are two things here.

#1, there's the effect when say the Moon moves into the next Sign,

say where Saturn is, 'in the sky',....

In 2 days for example Moon moves into Gemini, where Saturn is.

#2, then, there's the effect of say the Moon moving into the same house,

where our Natal Saturn is, 'in our charts'....

This can be 'felt' in the same way, though these two different ways....

represent the Transits, vs. the effect of the transits, upon our individual charts....!

both of which I believe are important....

personally I find the effects of the Transits, 'out there', more intense, then say,

when Moon moves into Virgo, each month, where my natal Moon is....

I'm so used to that, that it's effects don't seem soooo intense....

but when the Moon moves into the space where the transiting Saturn 'is', that seems

much more strong...

Even if you have got exalted saturn in your

> chart,when transit moon goes over it ,you will feel

> lonliness,allof etc.When Mars hover your saturn, you

> are very uncomfortalbe with your situation's in your

> life,either you feel like destroying everything around

> you or just destroy yourself.

See below:Yes, yes,...this is exactly what I love about watching the transits,...

after even 12 months, you'll be so much more clear about what 'effects' come to one,

through the transits, ....that...

you'll be much more prepared.... to understand....'where' ....'these' effects are coming..

Then, in the future, we'll be more wise, and not 'blame' so much 'others'

because of something that's either coming to us from the outer stars....

or coming to us ....from our....inner stars.....

>

> So How did we lost a qualities of Placement.How come

> placement looses its theme and get more influenced by

> aspect.

I've heard it described both ways....by different astrologers....

I think it happens, when the general, 'experience' of Astrology gets lost...

Even though modern day, 'Astrologers' may be very good at understanding intellectually,

Astrology,....still it's not the same,....as having learned to feel the Stars....

I think experience in Consciousness, in meditation, has helped me emmensely,....

because I'm more awake, in the soul, in the silence of life....

and the Stars, exist.... predominantly in silence....

In fact, at some point when I was 'watching' the transits, it occured to me, ....

I hadn't heard anyone describe how,.... no matter 'what' transits are going on....

whether it's a clear day, and everything's feeling smooth,....

or a very rough day, and stormy....etc....

what I noticed, was .... within both days,....there's this incredible experience of eternal....

silence....

and 'that'....is the core, the essence of life....

In fact,....the most important thing....

because it's in going to 'that',....accessing 'that', that any improvement, transformation,...

can really be accomplished..... on the outer.....

Act as a modifier.Transit is a best way to

> describe Aspect being more powerful than just

> placement.

personally, my experience is the opposite....

I experience, when 2 planets are in the same house as being stronger,....

but that's not to say your experience couldn't be the opposite...

I find for example, that a lot of people experience the dasas, stronger, then the transits,.....

and that goes along with the classic Jyotish descriptions....

but for me, I've learned that 'I', experience the transits, more strongly....

Also, ....Jyotish says that the 'transits' should be looked at through the Moon chart....

but I find the Rasi chart, ....looking at the transits, via. one's rising sign, ....

is more accurate for me,....and for many others....

We all need to learn to experience....the stars....

I am talking about when to mutual force

> combine,it will always be powerful than just being

> alone.It can act as a destroyer and even rebuilder of

> your evnts in life.Life is not stagnant or constant

> like Placement.But rather everyday changing and who is

> influencing that,Transit and How through aspect,isn't

> it?.If i am wrong correct me.

>

Nice talking with you...

Mark Kincaid

founder....Nature's Astrology....

>

>

> --- Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid (AT) mchsi (DOT) com> wrote:

>

>> Hi Ramakrishna ,

>>

>> No sirji,What you said I have already talked about

>> that previous.Same thing aspect is as good as

>> placement means Venus when aspect from pisces gives

>> same results

>> as jupiter placed in pisces.that means full

>> effect,not

>> a quality wise,quantity wise effect will be maximum.

>>

>> When planet is aspecting some house, without any

>> planets in it,means effect will be equvalent to

>> placement.Aspect and Placement we are talking about

>> is

>> quantity wise and not qualitywise,That will depend

>> upon mutual relationship,sign in whci placed etc.OK.

>>

>> --- Ramakrishna <ramki (AT) wisorindia (DOT) soft.net> wrote:

>>

>>

>> Dear Shipal & All:

>>

>> This is a fascinating aspect of Jyotish, ahhh, no

>> pun intended, heheeheh.

>>

>> But, another really good way to tell whether

>> 'conjunction', or when a planet

>> is in a house,

>> or opposite another house, or even in it's

>> aspectings,.... is to look at

>> these through the eyes,

>> of the daily, weekly, monthly and yearly

>> transits....

>>

>> Watch the Moon for example.

>>

>> When the Moon moves through the sky and moves

>> through our charts, especially

>> when you can learn to 'feel' it, you can start to

>> realize...the real truths

>> of Jyotish.

>>

>> For example, when the Moon is getting bigger, like

>> now, and then when it

>> moves through the different signs, and especially

>> moves into similar houses

>> with other planets.... you can really feel those!

>>

>> Take the up-coming Moon & Saturn conjunction

>> starting in about 2 days....

>>

>> Right now the Moon's in Taurus, and only at the 3rd

>> degree, so still a lot

>> of Exaltedness, left....

>>

>> But in a 'few' days, let's say 2 1/2, the Moon will

>> move into Gemini, where

>> it will come within 30 degrees of any planets in

>> Gemini.

>>

>> Right now, Saturn has Retrograded back into Gemini,

>> so soon, the Moon &

>> Saturn will be conjunct.

>>

>> So, everyone watch how you feel.... now...

>>

>> and in 3, 4 and then 5 days.... that Saturn/Moon

>> conjunction...

>>

>> Then, compare these feelings with the feelings that

>> come next when the Moon

>> moves past Saturn and into the next sign...

>>

>> That will be quite a shift this month/year,

>> especially because the Moon

>> feels soooo happy in Cancer.

>>

>> Then, for the next 2 1/2 days the Moon will be in

>> Cancer, it's Own

>> Sign,....but then,

>> the Moon will move into Leo, which is farther and

>> farther away from

>> Saturn,....but....

>>

>> the Moon will be in a sign, where it's supposed to

>> fall under the 3rd house

>> 'aspect' of Saturn...

>>

>> See, if you/all, can feel that same Saturn feeling

>> that happened when

>> Saturn&Moon were conjunct, see if you don't feel

>> that same flavor.

>>

>> Then, when the Moon, continues around the sky, next

>> it will move into

>> Sagittarius, which is the Sign, completely opposite

>> to Saturn, in Gemini,

>> and then, when Moon moves into Pisces, Saturn's 10th

>> House aspect is

>> supposed to kick in.

>>

>> Experience shows which qualities of Jyotish are more

>> strong and give very

>> practical understanding that will allow us to

>> understand the same kind of

>> 'aspects' and 'conjunctions', or placements as you

>> say; that are in our

>> charts.

>>

>> Hope this helps....

>>

>> Sincerely,

>>

>>

>> Mark Kincaid

>>

>>

>>

>> ps.... instead of asking people to guess about your

>> chart, why don't you

>> share with people, your experience which are

>> stronger.

>>

>> For example, in my chart, I have Moon & Saturn

>> together in the 12th house,

>> only 1 house away from my Sun in the 11th.

>>

>> Well, believe me, I can say with complete

>> reliability, that the consequence

>> of this 'configuration' has been very striking to

>> me.

>>

>> Plenty of feelings of isolation, loneliness,

>> sadness, even depression

>> growing up.

>>

>> And as I learned my chart I could 'feel' Saturn's

>> aspects into my 3rd house,

>> and 6th house.... especially.

>>

>> Not only was I shy, due to the Moon being in the

>> 12th, but, my 2nd house of

>> speech was very much effected too, and I was

>> extremely shy in school, had a

>> very difficult time getting up and speaking in

>> class, etc.

>>

>> But, I also have Jupiter in my 6th in Pisces, in my

>> 6th and at the very same

>> time I had all these, problems of Moon/Saturn in the

>> 12th,.... I found some

>> very good qualities due to Jupiter.

>>

>> First of all, I had pretty good health. Secondly I

>> noticed that Saturn's

>> normal negative aspect upon the Sign opposite to

>> itself, was probably,

>> improved due to Jupiter's simultaneous aspect back,

>> upon Saturn and the

>> Moon.

>>

>> I could also 'feel' all the good qualities of

>> Jupiter's supposed influence

>> upon the Sign opposite it!

>>

>> I also had many of the predictatively 'good'

>> qualities of Jupiter upon the

>> Moon, which was a clear example of the 7th House

>> 'aspect'.

>>

>> Then, there are the aspects of Jupiter. Jupiter's

>> supposed to influence

>> not only the Sign where it is, but also 5 Houses

>> away in addition to the

>> classic 7th house aspect.

>>

>> And I could really feel that too. Jupiter in the

>> 6th, then, casts it's 5th

>> house aspect into the 10th house, where I have

>> Cancer.

>>

>> And from as long as I can remember I 'knew' that I

>> wanted to be a teacher.

>>

>> First of all, I loved teachers growing up, I loved

>> watching them, and

>> admired them greatly.

>>

>> These qualities are good examples of Jupiter's 5th

>> house aspect.

>>

>> And finally, when I try and look and find, Jupiter's

>> 9th house aspect, I

>> find that Jupiter's supposed to be aspecting my 2nd

>> house.

>>

>> So, not only was I shy due to Saturn's aspect from

>> the 12th, but, I felt

>> also another influence which later I realized was

>> probably Jupiter's which

>> wanted to be able to speak and express myself.

>>

>> Eventually, as I learned how to diminish or

>> transform Saturn's negative

>> 'glances' into more positive one's, I began to feel

>> more comfortable

>> speaking and eventually became quite comfortable in

>> front of a crowd, or

>> even lecturing.

>>

>> So, I'm sure we all, will enjoy hearing about how

>> you've come to understand

>> and experience your chart, too. I'd love to hear

>> your own private

>> experiences as to the effects of the Planets 'in'

>> different houses/signs,

>> and their simultaneous effects upon, opposite signs

>> and houses.

>>

>>

>> Sincerely,

>>

>>

>> Mark Kincaid

>>

>>

>> founder Nature's Astrology....

>> m.kincaid (AT) mchsi (DOT) com

>> 641 472-0000

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> Shripal <d_shripal >

>> AyurvedJyotishYoga

>> Tue, 18 Jan 2005 21:30:57 -0800 (PST)

>> navlakshya

>> [AyurvedJyotishYoga] Re: Aspect v/s

>> Placement

>>

>>

>> Hi Jyotish Volunteer and ALL,

>>

>> Let's take this birth data of mine.

>> Name:shripal

>> Place:Rajkot,Gujarat

>> Time:21:00

>> date:16th March 1980

>>

>> 1)In my chart Mars + Saturn + Jupiter + Rahu all

>> retrogatin and placed in 11th house.All this planets

>> are aspecting or influencing each other.Correct.

>>

>> 2)In 5th house Mercury and Ketu are together.

>>

>> 3)However Venus is in 7th house.

>>

>> 4)Know planets aspecting first house are Saturn

>> 100%,Venus 100% + venus is a dispositor of that

>> house

>> too and placed with Venus in enemy house.

>>

>> 5)Venus a first house lord is in trine with Mars +

>> saturn + rahu + jupiter,so all this planets aspect

>> to

>> venus is 50% mutually.

>>

>> 5)Mercury + ketu sextile with this Venus,so aspect

>> mutually is 25%.

>>

>> So you tell me about my personality and

>> thoughts,regarding my looks and approach towards

>> life.Which planet will be most influential with

>> rescpect,

>>

>> 1)1st house that is me,my looks nd qualities that i

>> have and i will achieve.

>> 2)4th house that is my mother or staying place

>> 3)7th house that is my wife or partners

>> 4)5th house that is my education,Romance and

>> Mantra,Tantra etc.

>> 5)9th house my spiritual inclination.

>> 6)11th house my friends,relationship with them anf

>> gains.

>>

>> You give me predictions for each and every of my

>> above

>> points and I will let you know how much truth about

>> it.

>>

>> So we can come to conclusion what all houses aspect

>> is

>> more effective and where palcement is effective.

>>

>> Which one is more stronger aspect or Placement.

>>

>> --- Jyotish Volunteers <primusjyotishi (AT) (DOT) ca>

>> wrote:

>>

>>>

>>> Not clear why you called placement as a one time

>>> influence while

>>> aspect is a longerlasting one. Please elaborate a

>>> bit more.

>>>

>>>

>>> navlakshya, Shripal

>>> <d_shripal> wrote:

>>>> Guruji,

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> That theory will not work here.aspect is not

>>>> influencing anybody.So your example I will say

>>> there

>>>> is no aspect at all.

>>>>

>>>> Aspect mean you can do something,influencing

>>>> someone.when you are seeing means just seeing.

>>>> Planets just don't see,they influence.In fact a

>>> very

>>>> very great influence.As good as seating and

>> seeing

>>> is

>>>> same for them.

>>>>

>>>> But let me try to twist your Example,If that

>>> killer

>>>> seating find he is a son of his Boss or His

>> father

>>> is

>>>> bigger person.Than you tell me Aspect of his

>>> father

>>>> not even in his presence,what will be

>>> outcome.Aspect

>>>> or Placement.So i guess who is influencing whom

>>> rather

>>>> than just seating.

>>>>

>>>> And now if you are saying,even he know's still

>> he

>>> want

>>>> to kill that person seating beside him,than

>> ready

>>> for

>>>> a outcome of aspect that is influencing that

>> guy.

>>>>

>>>> That's what I said it in first posting.Strong

>>>> Placement's of planets is like a one time

>>> promotion or

>>>> act of that movement instantly.Aspect is like

>>> constant

>>>> movement increasing manner or detoriating

>>>> movement.Placement is like switch on and

>> Off.while

>>>> aspect is like Volume button.It influences your

>>> daily

>>>> life.

>>>>

>>>> --- "V.Partha sarathy" <partvinu5> wrote:

>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> Dear Shripal

>>>>>

>>>>> Please tell me the outcome of the following

>>>>>

>>>>> You are with a killer, a bad man in the same

>>> bus, in

>>>>> the same seat

>>>>> you are in a bus, and killer is in another

>> bus,

>>> he

>>>>> is looking at you.

>>>>>

>>>>> WHich makes you more comfortable?

>>>>> best wishes

>>>>> partha

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> navlakshya, Shripal

>>>>> <d_shripal> wrote:

>>>>>> Hi sureshji,

>>>>>>

>>>>>> your Explantion and Prediction is

>> wonderful.I

>>>>> myself

>>>>>> found aspect are more powerful than

>>>>> Placements.Even

>>>>>> when I have checked Let say Libra rising and

>>>>> Saturn in

>>>>>> Lagna.so this person should possess all the

>>>>> qualities

>>>>>> of Exaltes saturn,But in fact it is not

>> there

>>> at

>>>>>> all.Considering all factors.Mars in 6th

>> house

>>> and

>>>>>> aspecting this saturn.so this person is more

>>> like

>>>>>> Martian,rather than saturn like.Even

>> placement

>>> for

>>>>>> Mars is also weak,still aspect is working

>> very

>>>>> well

>>>>>> than Placement of Saturn.As mars is enemy to

>>>>>> saturn,still it destroy what ever saturn's

>>> result

>>>>> and

>>>>>> imbibe his resuls in that individual.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I concluded that Aspect should be given a

>>> higher

>>>>>> priority.

>>>>>> --- sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag> wrote:

>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Namasthe

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Yes Aspect of any planet is more powerful

>>> than

>>>>> its

>>>>>>> association. It is

>>>>>>> said that if two malefics are in

>> association

>>> it

>>>>>>> brings decieses and if

>>>>>>> a third aspects it brings death. This

>> could

>>> mean

>>>>> two

>>>>>>> things aspect by

>>>>>>> a (malefic) planet is more potent than the

>>>>>>> association of two

>>>>>>> (malefics). Agin in another text

>>>>>>> "Bhanuna Vasrija drishte dakshange arura

>>>>> asrigbhava"

>>>>>>> Saturn if

>>>>>>> aspected by sun or mars will produce

>>> eruptions

>>>>> and

>>>>>>> boils on the right

>>>>>>> side of the body due to impure blood.

>> (Cause

>>> of

>>>>>>> death) this sloka

>>>>>>> further explains: "Guruna swayathupathe

>>>>> dakshinange

>>>>>>> cha vedana".

>>>>>>> Jupiter produces swelling of the feets of

>>> pain

>>>>> in

>>>>>>> the body.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> There are many such examples which shows

>> the

>>>>> power

>>>>>>> of aspects of planets.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> In the example given by you Saturn in the

>>> 8th

>>>>> house

>>>>>>> may confer long

>>>>>>> life depending on the stregth of Saturn in

>>> amsa

>>>>> and

>>>>>>> sun . but one

>>>>>>> cannot rule out the physical ailments that

>>> it

>>>>>>> signifies. Please note

>>>>>>> that Saturn Lagnidhipathy is aspecting the

>>> Karma

>>>>>>> Sthana as well as

>>>>>>> dhanasthana and is placed in the atma

>> karaka

>>> /

>>>>> pitur

>>>>>>> karaka Sun. Being

>>>>>>> an enemy, he may face many problems with

>> his

>>>>>>> parents. Highly egoistic

>>>>>>> and in always conflict with oneself. He

>>> creates

>>>>>>> wealth by his own

>>>>>>> efforts. in fact jupiter and mars help

>>> saturn in

>>>>>>> this process of

>>>>>>> creating wealth. (Saturn and mars in

>> mutual

>>>>> aspect -

>>>>>>> Lagnadhipathy and

>>>>>>> labhadhipathy) He may create wealth

>> through

>>>>> property

>>>>>>> deals and

>>>>>>> speculations (High risk) due to the

>> position

>>> of

>>>>> mars

>>>>>>> in taurus and

>>>>>>> jupiter in mesh(Mars as adhipathy).

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> But he may expect some downfall (sudden

>> and

>>>>>>> unexpected) as the Saturn

>>>>>>> is the satru rasi and Jupiter aspecting is

>>> also

>>>>> 12th

>>>>>>> rasi ord

>>>>>>> (Vyayasthanadhipathy).

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> This person may not happy in life in spite

>>> of

>>>>> being

>>>>>>> a successfull

>>>>>>> business man. (Sun - Atma Karaka being a

>>> Sathru

>>>>> of

>>>>>>> Saturn -

>>>>>>> Lagnadhipathy and Saturn being in leo

>>> aspecting

>>>>> the

>>>>>>> Atma Karaka

>>>>>>> griha's Neecha Rasi)

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Thank you putting such queries. give your

>>>>> comments.

>>>>>>> Have no doubt that aspect is more potent

>>> than

>>>>> yoga

>>>>>>> expecially that of

>>>>>>> saturn . Remember Ravana had his downfall

>>> when

>>>>>>> saturn in transit

>>>>>>> reached his seventh house. I have seen

>> many

>>>>> persons

>>>>>>> who were sitting

>>>>>>> at the pinacles of their carrer/life fall

>> to

>>>>> nothing

>>>>>>> when saturn

>>>>>>> traverse throuth 4th, 7th and 11th house

>>> either

>>>>> from

>>>>>>> ascendant or moon

>>>>>>> sign.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> May Lord Bless You.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Suresh Bbu.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> vedic astrology,

>>> Shripal

>>>>>>> <d_shripal> wrote:

>>>>>>>> Hello All,

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Planetary aspect should be given more

>>>>> important or

>>>>>>>> palcement,which one would be powerful.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Let say Saturn is placed in 8th house in

>>>>> Leo.so

>>>>>>> for

>>>>>>>> Capricon Ascendant it is benefic.Now

>>> Jupiter

>>>>>>> placed in

>>>>>>>> 4th House aspecting Saturn.So here

>> aspect

>>> is

>>>>> Trine

>>>>>>>> that is 50% b/w planets and 100% by

>>> Jupiter.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> But being in Leo,it is in enemies house

>>> and

>>>>> 50%

>>>>>>> aspect

>>>>>>>> to jupiter,that is benefic,so Saturn

>> thrid

>>>>> aspect

>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>>> 10th house that is his own exalted sign

>>> will

>>>>> give

>>>>>>>> benefic result or malefic result,by how

>>> much.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Now climax comes,If Mars is in Taurus

>> ans

>>>>> ,Mars is

>>>>>>>> also aspecting this Saturn 100% and

>>> vice-versa

>>>>> is

>>>>>>> also

>>>>>>>> true.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> So it will try to make Saturn act

>>>>> malefically.so

>>>>>>> what

>>>>>>>> will be a Saturn's response.Good or

>>> TooBad.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> =====

>>>>>>>> "Love is friendship set to music."

>>>>>>>> "Love conquers all."

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>

>>>>>>>>

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>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

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>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> =====

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>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

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