: To be Guru or Not to be ?? that is the question

[Guest guest]

> Dear Monmuk111,

> Why and where are you coming from to paint such a rascist then sexist ,

separatist

> picture? Why are you drawing lines and circles about Brahmins and Gurus

and

> separating yourself from truth.

> Where is the advaita here? It is all one.

> You are as much a part of me and I you. This play of creation with its

> actors is not who we really are. Why the preference and claim to one part

or

> another?

>

> Ask yourself, in the pureness of your heart, is their any difference

between

> yourself, the 'false' guru and the 'true'

guru.............................

>

> Kind regards

> Rosemary

>

> -

> "monmuk111" <monmuk111

> <vedic astrology>

> Thursday, June 24, 2004 9:31 AM

> [vedic astrology] Re: Fwd: >Venkatarama--to Venkat and Aman

>

>

> Hello Aman:

>

> You have NICELY reflected the SAME sentiments I feel. I've done is in

> an abrasive way.

>

> The issues are:

>

> 1) Who can be a Guru?

> 2) And, can someone who IS NOT living a Brahminical life of living on

> donations and of not profiteering from Vedic knowledge become a Guru?

> 3) In India, practicing Brahmins live an extremely Brahminic

> lifestyle ever since they're kids, i.e. began learning rituals from

> their father and grandfather in childhood, then go to Benaras and

> study Vedas and Vedic rituals for many, many years AND FINALLY become

> a PUNDIT/GURU/BRAHMIN who performs various rituals, rites including

> giving out mantras. Now, can a person who hasn't BEEN thorough this

> process become a GURU and give out Mantras?

>

> Venkat has made a nice attempt to answer these, but is sitting on the

> fence on some important issue of whether someone who isn't born a

> Brahmin and doesn't live a Brahminic lifestyle become a Guru and

> perform rites, rituals and give out Mantras.

>

> Let's see what other members have to say. I'm hoping I'm not BOOTED

> from this group for asking such questions.

>

> Mukund

>

> vedic astrology, Venkatarama Sastry

> <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > --- Aman sood <amansr99@r...> wrote:

> > > 23 Jun 2004 18:57:57 -0000

> > > "Aman sood" <amansr99@r...>

> > > "venkatarama_sastry"

> > > <venkatarama_sastry>

> > > >Venkatarama

> > >

> > > RESPECTED Venkatarama.

> > > THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BRAHMA and

> > > BRAHMAN.A TRUE MASTER LIKE SRI RAMAKRISHNA has

> > > REALIZED the HIGHEST ABSOLUTE BRAHMAN.Upanishads

> > > state clearly that BRAHMAN is the real nature or the

> > > reality behind this COSMIC PROJECTION of names and

> > > forms. UPNISHADS FURTHER STATE THAT ALL THE WORLD OF

> > > NAMES AND FORMS IS INDWELT BY THE LORD( OR BRAHMAN

> > > ).It is only in India that we have had great souls

> > > sacrificing their life to attain the supreme state

> > > of NIRVILKIPA SAMADHI or BRAHMAN JNANA.It is INDIA

> > > EVEN TODAY IN KALI YUGA that people lead austere

> > > lives of immense devotion and purity.Having lived in

> > > WEST in EUROPE and USA I am convinced that these

> > > lands are BHOG BHUMIS not YOG BHUMIS . I am

> > > convinced that MAJORITY of the WHITE RACE IS NOT

> > > SUITED FOR SPIRITUAL PRACTICES THEY JUST DONT HAVE

> > > THE SAMASKARAS. MANY OF THESE WHITE FELLOWS DONT

> > > EVEN KNOW WHO THEIR FATHER IS.ThE WESTERN COUNTRIES

> > > ARE SUITED FOR GROSS ANIMAL MATERILISTIC LIFE.. IN

> > > INDIA THERE IS CORRUPTION LUST GRRED but GO to

> > > RISHIKESH or UUTARKASHI and sit near the GANGES and

> > > WORSHIP LORD SIVA see the BLISS YOU GET. YOU can go

> > > to ROCKY mountaIns, ALPS or LAKE MICHIGAN sit near

> > > it and MEDITATE and see what you get.THE PROOF OF

> > > PUDDING IS IN EATING.INDIA IS A GREAT SPIRITUAL LAND

> > > BUT SINCE IT IS KALI YUGA AND IN THIS YUGA EVIL

> > > SHINES AND RULES HENCE IT IS USA AND WESTERN EUROPE

> > > WITH THEIR CASH RICH ECONOMIES BUT BANKCRUPT SOULS

> > > THAT ARE SHINING IN TODAY"S AGE

> > > OM.

> > >

> > >

> > > On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 venkatarama_sastry wrote :

> > > >Yep, Mukund, your personal opinion that only a

> > > Hindu by birth, and

> > > >that too a Brahmin by birth can be a guru, is going

> > > to be shot

> > > >down :-) Allow me ...

> > > >

> > > >What exactly is a Brahmin? In telugu, we say

> > > "Brahma Gyana

> > > >sampannudu Brahmanudu", meaning that one that has

> > > the treasure of

> > > >Brahma Gyana is a Brahmin.

> > > >

> > > >Plus, what do we mean by "foreigners", anyway?

> > > Non-Indians? Well,

> > > >India today is very different from the India of the

> > > Vedic times ...

> > > >it encompassed what is now Afghanistan, Pakistan,

> > > Bangladesh, Burma

> > > >etc. And it seems rather uncertain as to how far

> > > South it extended,

> > > >which means that your Maharastra may not have even

> > > been part of it,

> > > >and probably not my Andhra either.. :-)

> > > >

> > > >A true Guru, in my opinion, is one that leads his

> > > pupils to God. I

> > > >remember a story of Swami Vivekananda, who went

> > > from godman to

> > > >godman, asking them the same question, can you show

> > > me God? Only

> > > >Ramakrishna Paramahamsa answered that with a simple

> > > "Yes", and hence

> > > >he was his disciple for life.

> > > >

> > > >I have my questions about whether mantras need to

> > > be taught by a

> > > >Guru or not, but the point there was that the Guru

> > > not only teaches

> > > >the actual mantra, its pronunciation etc. but also

> > > transfers some of

> > > >His/Her own spiritual power to you in the process.

> > > It is this power

> > > >that makes the difference.

> > > >

> > > >Now, if you are talking about a Siksha Guru, rather

> > > than a Deeksha

> > > >Guru, then, yes, you are right ... if you are just

> > > trying to learn

> > > >to pronounce a mantra, you obviously go to an

> > > expert on Mantras, not

> > > >a guy that can barely pronounce them himself, and

> > > if you are trying

> > > >to learn astrology, you go to an expert astrologer

> > > etc. These are

> > > >all just various vidyas, various subjects, so to

> > > speak, and you go

> > > >to the PhD equivalent to learn it in depth.

> > > >

> > > >Actually I do agree with you that a Guru has to be

> > > born, not made,

> > > >but not in the way you mean it. A Guru has to be

> > > born with the

> > > >sattwik qualities necessary, and the desire to help

> > > others etc.

> > > >

> > > >OK, now you can shoot my opinion down if you'd like

> > > :-). No offence

> > > >intended!

> > > >

> > > >Venkatarama

> > > >

> > > >vedic astrology, "monmuk111"

> > > <monmuk111>

> > > >wrote:

> > > > > Hello nameisego:

> > > > >

> > > > > Why should the initiation be done by a Guru when

> > > the Bagalmukhi

> > > >and

> > > > > other Shakti mantras are available easily on the

> > > internet and in a

> > > > > variety of books.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now, here is my followup question to the above?

> > > WHO IS A GURU?

> > > >There

> > > > > are lots of foreigners out there claiming to be

> > > Gurus who can

> > > >hardly

> > > > > pronounce "Om" and and the aarti (devotional

> > > songs) they sing

> > > >sound

> > > > > ridiculous and I find these offensive as a

> > > Hindu. -- And all of

> > > >these

> > > > > foreigners claim tobe some sort of a Guru.

> > > > >

> > > > > And, how can these Gurus prescibe a mantra,

> > > Shanskrit mantras or

> > > > > otherwise, when they don't know Sanskrit OR

> > > Marathi and Telugu the

> > > > > other two languages closest to Sanskrit?

> > > > >

> > > > > Now, some people may write back saying it is not

> > > a matter of

> > > > > pronounciation, but a matter of FAITH so any

> > > ridiculous sounds

> > > >these

> > > > > foreigners make out of their mouths are OK.. On

> > > the other hand,

> > > > > fellows like Narasimha and my family Brahmin and

> > > lots of other

> > > > > Brahmins (especially from Maharastra, Gujarat,

> > > Tamil Nadu,

> > > >Varanashi,

> > > > > Banaras and Nasik) INSIST that the

> > > prononciations should be

> > > >ACCURATE.

> > > > >

> > > > > In the old days Gurus used to be divine. AND, in

> > > today's India

> > > >Gurus

> > > > > (not the fake one running around in Jumbo-Jets

> > > and Roll-Royces),

> > > >but

> > > > > the real Brahmins began studying Hindu rituals

> > > and mantra-shastra

> > > > > since they are KIDS. My family Brahmin (who is

> > > an older

> > > >Maharastrian

> > > > > guy) knows mantras for ALL occassions at the tip

> > > of his tounge.

> > > > >

> > > > > -- He also knows and uses Varga charts

> > > (constructed by hand), also

> > > > > knows MOOL DASA (which isn't some deep family

> > > secret as claimed by

> > > > > Sanjay--in fact, MOOL DASA is known by many

> > > Maharastrian Brahmins

> > > > > I've met and may even be known in other parts of

> > > India I haven't

> > > > > visited), and knows many more things about

> > > Mantra-shastra and

> > > >Vedic

> > > > > astrology that most of the Branded Gurus on this

> > > board don't know

> > > > > about. AND YET, he doesn't claim to be a Guru..

> > > > >

> > > > > So tell us nameisego, What makes a Guru? Some

> > > guy on this board

> > > >who

> > > > > could hardly pronounce "Om" and hardly knows

> > > ANYTHING on the tip

> > > >of

> > > > > his tounge, let alone knowing the meaning of the

> > > Mantras OR a REAL

> > > > > Hindu Brahmin who has devoted his life (since

> > > childhood) in

> > > >learning

> > > > > the Vedas, the Shastras, the Mantra and the

> > > Hora-Shastra?

> > > > >

> > > > > So tell us one more thing nameisego, Where does

> > > one find a Guru?--

> > > >a

> > > > > real one, not a web-Guru.

> > > > >

> > > > > My personal opinion (for which I'll soon be shot

> > > down) is that a

> > > >Guru

> > > > > has to be a Hindu and a Hindu is BORN not MADE.

> > > A Guru has to be a

> > > > > Brahmin PRACTISING the Brahminic way of living,

> > > i.e. follow a

> > > >strict

> > > > > ritual on not EVER touching non-vegetarian food,

> > > not EVER

> > > >indulging

> > > > > in other vices, follow a strict daily ritual of

> > > Poojas, follows a

> > > > > ritual of keeping and feeding cows, AND most

> > > importantly follow a

> > > > > strict ritual of LIVING OFF donations AND NEVER

> > > EVER PROFIT from

> > > >his

> > > > > Brahminic knowledge. -- My family Brahmin and

> > > most REAL GURUS in

> > > > > India walk from home to home in the morning and

> > > collect grains,

> > > > > flour, fruits and minor donations and live off

> > > these donations.

> > > > >

> > > > > To conclude, A GURU is born, NOT MADE. And, one

> > > would ONLY find

> > > >such

> > > > > a Guru in India living a poor, simple and

> > > Brahminic way of life.

> > > > >

> > > > > Respectfully,

> > > > > Mukund

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology,

> > > "nameisego"

> > > ><nameisego>

> > > > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hello Friend,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Initiation into Aaradhana of Bagalamukhi or

> > > any other Shakti

> > > >must

> > > > > be

> > > > > > done by a Guru.Casual approach to powerful

> > > pooja vidhans are

> > > > > > dangerous.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Tatvam-Asi

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology,

> > > "france12in"

> > > > > > <reghudevaraj@h...> wrote:

> > > > > > > Dear all,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'm a new member and would like to know if

> > > some one can help

> > > >me

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > finding the strotra or any other mantra of

> > > Maa bagalamukhi.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Warm regards

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Reghu

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >------------------------ Sponsor

> > > >

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> > > >

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> > > vedic astrology-

> > > >

> > > >....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

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> > > >|| Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

> > > Krishnaarpanamastu ||

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