2nd house Jup in various roles--to Chandrashekhar and Lakshmi on Ashtakvarga

[Guest guest]

My answers in CAPS.

 

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

Dear Ash,Ashtakavarga system is based on Bindus allotted to particular houses

for each of the planet with respect to its position from the planet whose

Ashtakavarga is being drawn.

ASH : YES AGREED.

The system you are using is based on considering the strengths of planets and

the Bhavas too. This is the system generally referred as Parashari or more

precisely Hora system which also encompasses the Ashtakavarga system.

ASH : ASHTAKVARGA IS A PART AND PARCLE OF VEDIC ASTROLOGY AND THAT IS WHAT I

HAVE ALSO SAID. I HAVE SAID THAT THE SYSTEM TO TIME EVENTS IS NOT GIVEN IN

TEXTS AVAILABLE TODAY. REST CLARIFICAITON BELOW.

Ashtakavarga is primarily used to find out effects from Transit of planets and

longevity as made clear in conversation between Maitreya and sage Parashara in

BPHS. Ashtakavarga system is clearly defined in that text.

ASH : THIS IS WHAT THE MISCONCEPTION IS. BASED ON THE TEXTS AVAILABLE TODAY.

DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT ASHTAKVARG IS USED ONLY FOR FINDING OUT TRANSIT. IS

THAT WHY PARASARA HAS SAID THAT TO USE ASHTAKAVARGA FOR INTELLECUTAL PYGMIES OF

KALIYUGA ? I DO NOT THINK SO SIR. THE SYSTEM OF ASHTAKVARGA IS VERY DETAILED

AND KAS AND VERSES OF ASHTAKAVARGA HAVE BEEN BROUGHT FORWARD BY KRUSHNAJI WHICH

ARE NOT FOUND IN ANY BOOK TODAY. IF YOU CLAIM THAT BHPS IS COMPLETE AND THAT

ALL THAT IS AVAILABLE ABOUT ASHTAKVARGA IS FOUND AND CODED AND THERE IS NO

CORRUPTION THEN I WILL NOT INDULGE YOU ANY FURTHER. No doubt the system can be

adopted to various other predictions, as it indicates influences on various

bhavas. Its various uses have been well documented in numerous texts besides

BPHS and the very short description of Varahamihira. The assumption that its

use is not mentioned for different uses in any other text but the two you

mentioned

is not factually correct.

ASH : THE SYSTEM TO TIME EVENTS USING ASHTAKVARGA IS NOT GIVEN CLEARLY IS IN ANY

TEXTS. THAT IS WHAT I AM SAYING.

Krushna has developed different parameters and as long as the system delivers

results there should be no issue with that.

ASH : HERE I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT KRUSHNAJI HAS NOT DEVELOPED DIFFERENT

PARAMETERS AND THIS SYSTEM. HE HAD BROUGHT IT FORWARD. THIS SYSTEM WAS KEPT

IN FAMILY OF HIS GURU AND THAT WAS TRANSMITTED FROM FATHER TO SON. KRUSHNAJI

WANTED THIS SYSTEM TO REMAIN IN THIS WORLD. THIS SYSTEM MUST HAVE BEEN IN HIS

GURUS LINEAGE FOR CENTURIES. IF ONE UNDERSTANDS THIS SYSTEM TO TIME EVENTS

MAYBE WHAT AND WHY I AM INDULDING YOU IN THIS THREAD WILL BECOME CLEAR.

It is easy to say that Parashara and Varahamihira's texts are corrupted, and

they could be. But that does not prove that the bindus used are wrong

especially as most of other parameters that you mention are drawn from these

very texts.

ASH : THE SYSTEM OF TIMING OF EVENTS USING ASHTAKAVARGA IS NOT DIFFERENT FROM

VEDIC ASTROLOGY. INFACT VEDIC ASTROLOGY IS MADE CLEAR WITH THE PROPER USE OF

ASHTAKAVARGA AND KAS. I DO NOT THINK PARASARA LIGHTLY MENTIONED THE USE OF

ASHTAKAVARGA FOR US PEOPLE IN KALI YUGA. A LOT OF ASHTAKVARGA AND SANSKRIT

SHLOKAS HAVE BEEN LOST. THIS IS WHAT I AM SAYING OR KEPT WITH FAMILES TILL

SOMEONE LIKE KRUSHNAJI COMES ALONG AND BRINGS SUCH TECHNIQUES FORWARD. ITS A

BIG CREDIT TO KRUSHNAJI FOR BRINGING FORWARD THIS SYSTEM WITH HAS MADE TIMING

OF EVENTS SO EASY.

It is well known that Varaha Mihira was influenced by Greek astrologers and has

adopted some of their methods, so the bindus that he attributes could also have

come from them.

ASH : ONE THING. BAV IS BAV AND BASIC SCHEME SHOUL.D BE SAME. ONLY IN BAV OF

MOON AND VENUS THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. PARASARA AND VARHARMIRA CANNOT HAVE

DIFFERENT OPINIONS. EITHER PARASARA'S SCHEME IS CORRUPT OR VARHARMIRAS'S. AT

THE END OF THE DAY BOTH MUST MATCH. SO ITS INFACT QUITE EASY TO SAY THAT

EITHER PARSARAS OR VARHARMIRAS BAV IS CORRPUT. I AM CONFIDENT THAT VARHRMAIRAS

HAS REMAINED IN TACT OVER THE CENTURIES AND PARASARAS BAV SCHME IS CORRPUT. IN

ANY CASE I WILL GO BY WHAT KRUSHNAJI HAS TAUGHT ME AS THIS SYSTEM WAS KEPT IN

HIS GURUS FAMILY AND HE HAS USED THAT FOR DECADES WITH CORRECT PREDICTIONS. SO

ITS TIME TESTED BY HIS GURUS LINEAGE. I AM IN NO POSITION TO MAKE ANY JUDGEMENT

BUT CAN SAY THAT I AM USNIG VARHARMIRAS SCHEME.

Since you give equal importance to Navamsha and Rasi whereas I go by the old

time system of planetary strength being derived from Navamsha, it might not be

possible for you to follow my meaning and reasons behind attributing more

strength to Saturn over Jupiter.

ASH : I AM FINDING STRENGTH USING ASHTAKVARGA BUT FOR EACH PLANET AND FOR EACH

HOUSE. YOU ARE ALSO TRYING TO FIND THE STRENGH BUT I AM NOT CLEAR WHEN YOU SAY

SHANI IS STRONGER THAN GURU BUT FOR WHAT ? IS IT FOR EVENT OR ALL 12 HOUSES ?

JUST SAYING STRONGER IS VERY GENERAL. IF I WERE TO ASK YOU IS SHANI STRONGER

THAN GURU FOR 4TH HOUSE OR 10TH HOUSE. THIS IS HOW I AM SEETNG THINGS. AS PER

THE WORKSHEET STRENGTH GURU IS FAR BETTER FOR 10TH HOUSE AS COMPARED TO SHANI

HOWEVER SHANI IS FAR STRONGER THAN GURU FOR 4TH HOUSE MATTERS.

The question of strength of the two planets was raised by Lakshmi and I was

responding to that. I so far as influence over all 12 Rasis comment is

concerned, Vedic astrology does think that planets have influence over all

Bhavas and other planets and the way the results would manifest depend on their

mutual relation.

ASH : EXACTLY. HERE IN LIES THE ESSENCE OF WHAT I WAS SAYING OR TRYING TO SAY

FOR SO LONG. THE BEAUTY OF IS THAT SAV ALREADY TAKES CARE OF MUTUAL RELATIONS

SO IT BECOMES IMPERATIVE THAT BAV IS ACCURATE AS SAV AS U KNOW IS DERIVED FROM

BAV. THAT WAS MY COMMENT ON COMPOUNDING OF ERRORS. THIS IS WHY WHEN YOU SAY

THAT SHANI IS STRONGER THAN GURU CONFUSES ME BECAUSE YES FOR 4TH HOUSE SHANI IS

STRONGER THAN GURU BUT NOT FOR 10TH HOUSE. HERE I AM BEING VERY SPECIFIC. SO

ARE YOU SAYING THAT YOUR COMMENT ON SHANI BEING STRONGER THAN GURU WAS

CONSIDERING ALL 12 HOUSES AND THE MUTUAL PLACMENT FOR ALL PLANETS WITH RESPECT

TO EACH OTHER ? IF SO THEN I AM VERY SURE THAT YOU WILL COME TO THE SAME

CONCLUSION USING WHATEVER WAY YOU USE TO FIND THE STRENGH OF SHANI AND GURU I.E

NAVAMSA, D CHARTS OR YOGAS ETC WITH WHAT I HAVE SHOWN IN THE WORKSHEET. THEN IF

YOU COMPARE SHANI AND GURU FOR EACH HOUSE WE WILL HAVE A MORE STRONGER BASIS FOR

COMPARISION. BUT STILL JUST USING THE WORD STRONGER I AM NOT CLEAR OR AM NOT

FOLLOWING. THE QUETSIONS THAT COMES TO MY MIND .. STRONGER FOR WHAT OR WHICH

HOUSE OR WHICH EVENT ?

About not considering Navamsha strength, I am not able to follow what you are

saying. On the one hand you say that these being equal you do not consider

Navamsha in worksheet and that you only use Navamsha to find samdharmi and on

the other hand you say that my contention is not correct.

ASH : RASI AND NAVAMSA HAVE EQUAL STATUS AS PER THE TEACHINGS OF KAS. NAVAMSA

IS DERIVED FROM RASI. FOR THE STRENGH AND WORKSHEET ONLY RASI IS NEEDED. IF

IN CASE OF DOUBT YOU CAN GO INTO D-CHARTS AND FIND OUT FROM THAT. I HAVE

DEMONTRATED WITH AN EXAMPLE OF RAMESH'S MARRIAGE. I WOULD HOPE THAT LAKSHMI

WOULD COMMENT ON THIS PART. I HAVE NOT SAID THAT YOU ARE NOT CORRECT. YOU ARE

TRYING TO FIND THE STRENGTH ALSO FROM NAVAMSA. AS PER KAS I FIND THE STRENGTH

FROM WORKSHEET WHICH IS FROM RASHI. FOR D-CHARTS I CAST WORKSHEET BUT ONLY

PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSE. WE DO NOT CONSIDER ASPECTS PART. SO ONLY TOP

PORTION OF WORKSHEET IS USED. WE BOTH ARE FINDING STRENGTH AND I AM USING AV

FROM RASI AND YOU ARE PROBABLY USING RASI/NAVAMSA/D CHARTS ETC AND SIGN

PLACEMENT TO FIND OUT THE STRENGTH. Again you are talking about timing of

events and the original thread is about Guru's capacity to harm the

house occupied by it.

ASH : FOR ME THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF QUESTION. AS PER KRUSHNAS ASHTAKAVARGA

SYSTEM PLANETS THAT ASPECT PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSES I.E. 8TH FROM HOUSE

UNDER FOCUS, 5TH FROM HOUSE UNDER FOCUS AND HOUSE UNDER FOCUS FOR EXAMPLE FOR

READERS IF YOU ARE TIMING MARRIAGE THEN 2ND, 7TH AND 11TH AND IF ANY PLANET HAS

ASPECT ON THESE HOUSES THEN THEY WILL NOT GIVE RESULT IN THEIR ANTRA BUT THEIR

SAMDHARMI WILL GIVE RESULT AND THE EXCEPTION IS THAT IF THE PLANET IS LORD OF

10TH FROM HOUSE UNDER FOCUS OR 6TH THEN IT WILL GIVE.

GURU ALWAYS ASPECTS 5TH HOUSE FROM THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN AND ITS A PRIMARY

SIGNIFICATOR HOUSE SO GURU WILL NOT GIVE RESULT FOR THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN

GENERALLY. ONLY EXCEPTION IS THAT IF GURU IS IN PISCES SO SUCH A GURU WILL

GIVE THE RESULT OF TIMING OF EVENT. SIMILARLY FOR MARS. I THINK ALSO

SOMETHING SIMILAR IS SAID FOR MARS AS PER VEDIC TEXTS. MARS ASPECTS 8TH HOUSE

FROM THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN AND 8TH HOUSE SO AS PER VEDIC TEXTS ITS ALSO SAID

THAT MARS SPOILS THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN. FOR SHANI IT DOES NOT ASPECT ANY OF

THE SIGNIFICATOR HOUSES WHEREEVER ITS PLACED SO ITS NOT SAID TO SPOIL THE HOUSE

AND WILL DELIVER THE RESULT IF IT HAS POWER AS PER WORKSHEET. SO IT MAY HAVE

BEEN NOTED IN TEXTS AS JU SPOILS THE HOUSE IT IS PLACED IN AND SHANI DOES NOT.

MARS ALSO CAN BE SAID TO SPOIL THE HOUSE IT IS IN HOWEVER THE EXCEPTIONS FOR ALL

IS IF THE SAME PLANET ALSO RULES 10TH AND 6TH FROM THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN IT

WILL GIVE THE

RESULT. THIS CAN BE CHECKED AND I AM SURE IT WILL VALIDATE WITH YOUR EXCEPTIONS.

SO I AM NOT TAKING PART IN THE DISCUSSION AS FOR ME PERSONALLY THERE IS NOTHING

TO DISCUSS. THE BASICS OF SUCH THINGS ARE CRYSTAL CLEAR AND CONSIDERED BY THE

RULES OF KRUSHNAS ASHTAVARGA SYSTEM. I AM VERY GLAD HOWEVER TO SEE THAT YOU

HAVE BROUGHT UP THIS TOPIC.

ANOTHER THING, GURU IS A HYOCRATIC PLANET. WHENEVER ONE TRIES TO POTRAY GURU AS

BAD THERE WILL BE RESISTANCE. THIS IS THE POWER OF GURU. I AM SITTING BACK AND

READING WITH INTEREST AND SEEING THE MAYA GURU CREATES. FUNNY ITS EASIER TO

BLAME SHANI FOR THINGS AND POTRAY IT AS BAD BUT INFACT ITS SHANI WHO IS THE

PLANET OF TRUTH.

SUCH THIGNS ARE HARD FOR PEOPLE TO DIGEST AND YOU ARE GETTING SO MUCH OF

EXPLAINING TO DO. THIS ITSELF PROVES MY POINT AND YOUR POINT ALSO.

Anyway let us await Lakshmi's comment about your observation on Mercury Antar,

though this is not part of the original discussions.

ASH : YES, IT WILL BE NICE IF LAKSHMI CAN COMMENT ON THE MARRIAGE OF RAMESH IF

IT HAPPENED IN MERCURY ANTRA AS PER KAY. IF THE DATE IS GIVEN IT WILL BE

BETTER. THIS WILL PROVE THE POWER OF THE PLANET AS PER WORKSHEET TO DELIVER

THE RESULTS AFTER FINDING OUT THE DELAY FROM RASHI AND NAVAMSA AS BOTH HAVE

SIMILAR STATUS AS PER KAS.

 

THANK YOU FOR THIS DICUSSION,

CHEERS !!!

ASH

Regards,Chandrashekhar.Ash wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar,

My answers in CAPS below.

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

Dear Ash,I forgot that you are using Krushna's Ashtakavarga system. In that case

you must be using Krushna's Ayanamsha. The system you are using is a combination

of Ashtakavarga and traditional Graha Bhava Bala system.

ASH : THE SYSTEM I USE IS KRUSHNAS ASHTAKVARG AND ITS PART OF VEDIC ASTROLOGY.

I DONT KNOW WHAT U MEAN BY GRAHA BHAVA BALA SYSTEM. IN SHORT WE CAN COMPUTE

THE STRENGTH OF EACH PLANET FOR EACH AND EVERY HOUSE AND ALSO FOR ALL 16 D

CHARTS. SO ITS VEDIC ASTROLOGY ONLY AND NOT DIFFERENT. AS PER KAS WE DO NOT

TALK IN GENERAL TERMS AS SHANI IS STRONG OR WEAK BUT WE CAN GO INTO DETAILS AS

PER POINTS AND FIND OUT HOW A PLANET WILL ACT FOR EACH HOUSE. IN MOST CASES

PLANETS DO NOT ACT BAD FOR ALL HOUSES. IN SHANI ANTRA AS PER RAMESH'S CHART IT

WILL BE GOOD FOR 4TH HOUSE MATTERS AS COMPARED TO GURU'S ANTRA FOR 4TH HOUSE

MATTERS AT THE SAME TIME FOR 10TH HOUSE MATTESR GURU WILL BE MUCH STRONGER THAN

SHANI AS YOU CAN SEE AS PER POINTS. ABOUT NAVAMSA I SHALL COMMENT BELOW.

 

There is no harm in using it as long as results come true. However it is not a

different Ashtakavarga system per se.

ASH : ASHTAKVARG IS ASHTAKVARG AND HOW TO USE IT IS NOT GIVEN CLEARLY IN ANY

TEXTS. PEOPLE ARE UNDER THE IMPRESSION BASED ON CURRENT TEXTS THAT ITS USED TO

TIME DEATH OR ITS USE IS LIMITED TO TRANSITS WHICH IS NOT CORRECT. THAT HAS

ALWAYS BEEN WHAT I TRY TO SAY AND EXPLAIN WHEN PEOPLE COMMENT ON ASHTAKVARGA

AND ITS USED ONLY IN TRANSITS. THE WHOLE SYSTEM IN WHICH ITS USED TO TIME

EVENTS IS NOT WRITTEN IN ANY BOOK OR CLASSICS DESPITE MANY MAHARISHIS LIKE

PARASARA, VARHARAMIRA ETC HAVE ALL MENTIONED ASHTAKVARGA IN THEIR TEXTS.

I was talking about a different Ashtakavarga system that you had suggested exists.

ASH : I HAVE NOT SUGGESTED ANYTHING OF THAT KIND. KRUSHNAS ASHTAKVARGA SYSTEM

IS A SYSTEM IN WHICH WE USE ASHTAKVARGA TO FIND THE STRENGTH OF EACH PLANET FOR

EACH HOUSE. I DO NOT THINK THERE IS ANY SYSTEM OUT THERE THAT DOES THAT.

RESULTS CAN BE SEEN AT A GLANCE. FOR EXAMPLE RAMESHS MARRIAGE MIGHT HAVE

HAPPENED DURING MERCURY ANTRA. MERCURY HAS THE HIGHEST STRENGTH IN THE CHART

FOR 7TH HOUSE. AND IS LOD OR 10TH LORD FROM 7TH HOUSE. MAHADAHSA CAN BE THAT

OF SHANI. SHANI IS SAMDHARMI TO NAKTURAL KARAK VENUS OF MARRIAGE. SO SHANI

MD/ MERCURY AD CAN GIVE MARRIAGE. THERE ARE 2 ZEROES IN BAV ONE DUE TO VENUS

AND OTHER DUE TO MARS AND MERCURY SO RESULT WILL BE IN LAST SECTOR OF MERCURY

ANTRA. MERCURY ANTRA RUNS IN SHANI MD RUNS FROM 1983/11 THRU 1986/JULY. 3RD

SECTOR STARTS 1985/07 THRU 1986/07. I AM NOT GOING FURTHER. IF THIS IS IN THE

BALL PARK ITS GOOD AND ONE CAN NARROW IT DOWN FURTHER WITH SUNS TRANSIT

OVER STRONG SIGNIFICATORS FOR 7TH HOUSE AS PER THE WORKSHEET POINTS. MAYBE

LAKSHMI CAN VERIFY WHEN HER MARRIAGE TOOK PLACE WITH RAMESH.

Varahamihira does have a slightly different bindu placement no doubt yet it is

only different by way of allowing Lagna to have one more bindu of influence

for some planet's Ashtakavarga. So it might not mean that other planet is

getting a bindu less.

ASH : THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT SCHEME THAT IS IN TEXTS TODAY

AVAILABLE GIVEN AS PER PARASARA AND WHATS GIVEN OR PRESERVED FROM VARHARAMIRA.

BOTH ARE GREAT SAGES AND THEIR BAV SCHEMES MUST BE SAME. PARASARAS HAS BEEN

CORRPUT OVER TIME. THE DIFFERENCES IN IN BAV FOR MOONS PLACMENT FROM MOON AND

GURU AND VENUS FROM MARS. THIS HAS VERY DEEP MEANING AND SAYING FOR EXAMPLE IF

VENUS GETS POWER IF IN 4TH FROM MARS AND IF VENUS IS NOT GETTING POWER OR A

BINDU IF IN 4TH FROM MARS HAS A BIG DIFFERENCE. THERE ARE ONLY 337 POINTS AND

IT WOULD MEAN THAT IF AS IN THE CASE OF RAMESHES CHART IF HIS 7TH BHAVA GETS

19TH IT MEANS THAT THAT 1 BINDU OF FROM THE POOL OF 337 HAS GONE TO SOME OTHER

HOUSE. IF A PLANET IS IN THAT HOUSE IT MAY GET 1 BINDU MORE STRENGTH AND IT

MAY CHANGE THE ENTIRE CHART. IF THAT PLANET IS IN 4TH FROM A MALEFIC PLANET

(BY MALEFIC I MEAN A PLANET WITH < 4 BINDUS EXCEPT MOON) AND IF THAT PLANET

WERE TO GET STRNGTH THEN

THAT PLANET WOULD BECOME VERY STRONG FOR ALL 12 HOUSES. THAT WOULD CHANGE THE

ENTIRE COMPLEXION OF THE CHART. WITH ASKTAVARG WE ARE VERY PARTICULAR AND THIS

IS NOT A TRIVIAL MATTER. 1 BINDUS CAN MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

I said 19 Bindus as the chart sent by Dear Lakshmi was in that format.

Varahamihira has exactly 8 shlokas on Ashtakavarga and his is not a different

system. He only has a different opinion about which places are influenced by

Lagna in case of some of the planets. Parashara has, on the other hand,

exhaustively dealt with Ashtakavarga.

ASH : THIS IS NOT TRUE. BAV SCHEMES HAVE TO MATCH. I DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU

ARE SAYING BY SYSTEMS. THE CORE AND BASIC OF ASHTAKVARG SYSTEM IS THE BAV

POINTS. IF PARASARA IS SAYING THAT MOON IS NOT GIVING STRENGTH TO 9TH BHAVA

WHEAREAS VARHARAMIRA IS SAYING IT DOES. THIS IS HUGE DIFFERECE OUT HERE.

SIMILARLY MOON IS BENEFIC IN 2ND FROM GURU AND VARHARAMIRA IS SAYING THAT 1

BINDUS STRENGTH IS NOT GIVEN. THIS IS THE BASIC. YOU JUST CANNOT SAY THAT THE

DIFFERENCE OF OPINION IS "ONLY". THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING. IMAGINE A SYSTEM

THAT IS USED ACCURATELY FOR TIMING OF EVENTS THE SAV VALUES FROM WHICH THE

STRENGTH OF ALL PLANEST AND FOR EACH AND EVERY HOUSE IS COMPUTED AND ITS BASED

ON SAV AND SAV IS BASED ON BAV. IN THE LEAST WHAT YOU ARE SAYING MIGHT

SURMOUNT TO COMPOUNDING OF ERROR. ACTUALLY IF YOU STUDY HOW ONE COMES TO THE

POINTS THAT I HAVE DISPLAYED IN MY PREVIOUS MAILS YOU WILL BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND

WHY I AM SO

PICKY WITH THIS DISTRIBUTION OF BAV AND STICKING TO VARHARAMIRA. IF WE DIFFER

ON THIS VIEW WE CAN AGREE TO DISAGREE.

I have already given the reason I think Saturn is stronger than Guru in reply to Lakshmi.

ASH : YES, I DID READ YOUR INTERSTING COMMENT BUT I WAS NOT CLEAR ON WHAT YOU

MEANT BY STRONGER. STRONGER FOR WHAT EVENTS ? DID U MEAN STRONGER FOR

DELIVERING RESULTS OR ALL 12 HOUSES. CAN YOU BE MORE SPECIFIC. WHEN I GAVE

THE POINTS I AM BEING VERY SPECIFIC AND COMPARING GURU WITH SHANI FOR ALL 12

HOUSES. I AM BEING SPECIFIC IN SAYING THAT IN GURU ANTRA RAMESH WILL HAVE MORE

AUTHORITY AS COMPARED TO SHANI. GURU IS IN UPCAHYA FROM 10TH HOUSE AND WITH 5

BINDUS. SO ITS VERY EAGER TO GIVE 2ND AND 10TH HOUSE MATTERS. SHANI IS EAGER

TO GIVE RESULTS FOR 12TH, 4TH, 11TH, AND 3RD HOUSE IN ITS ANTRA. CAN YOU BE

MORE SPECIFIC. I DO NOT THINK SHANI IS BAD FOR EACH AND EVERY HOUSE AND

NEITHER IS GURU IN HIS ANTRA. AGAIN I AM RESTRICTING THE RESULTS TO THE ANTRA.

I THINK IF U ARE MORE SPECIFIC THEN WE MIGHT BE SAYING THE SAME THING BUT FROM

A DIFFERENT VIEW POINT.

The reason it is not reflected in the table given by you is,as you have

indicated Navamsha strength of planets is not considered in the system you are

using.

ASH : THIS IS INCORRECT. THE STRENGTH IS DERIVED FROM RASHI AND THE WORKSHEET

POINTS ARE FROM RASHI ONLY. NAVAMSA HAS EQUAL STATUS AS COMPARED TO RASHI. WE

USE NAVAMSA FOR FINDING OUT THE SAMDHARMIS AND ALSO DELAY. ALL COMBINATIONS

HAVE TO BE CHECKED FROM BOTH RASI AND NAVAMSA. BUT FOR FINDING OUT THE STRENGH

OF PLANET ITS DONE FROM RASI. A WORKSHEET FOR EACH DIVISIONAL CHART IS ALSO

CASTED.

Using Krushna's Ayanamsha the Navamsha placement of planets could also change.

If you apply the strength from Navamsha as given in the chart provided by

Lakshmi, you will see my view point.

ASH : IT WILL NOT CHANGE THINGS. I CHECKED AFTER READING THIS COMMENT. IN BOTH

CASES USING KRUSHNAS AYANAMSA AND LAHIRI SHANI REMAINS IN LIBRA IN NAVAMSA SO

ITS SAMDHARMI TO VENUS. IT WILL REPLACE VENUS FOR THE HOUSE THAT VENUS IS

UNABLE TO DELIVER RESULTS. THE POSITION OF MARS CHANGES IN LAGNA THOUGH.

MAYBE IF U SEE THINGS WITH MARS BEING IN 12TH INSTEAD OF 11TH YOU MAY SEE MY

VIEW POINT. AGAIN I AM EMPHASISING ON THE FACT THAT STRENGTH OR THE WORKSHEET

THAT I GAVE IS COMPUTED FROM RASHI ONLY AND SAMDHARMIS IS COMPUTED FROM RASHI

AND NAVAMSA. RASHI AND NAVAMSA HAVE EQUAL STATUS AS PER KAS AND WE FOLLOW

CERTAIN RULES FOR FINDING DELAY. I HAVE DEMONSTRATED IN THIS MAIL REGARDING

MARRIAGE OF RAMESH WITH LAKSHMI. FOR THAT I HAVE COMPUTED DELAY FOR MARRIAGE

USING 2 ZEROES, AND SHANI ASPECTING PRIMIARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSES FROM RASHI AND

THEIR LORDS IN NAVAMSA AND USING WORKSHEET STRENGTH I HAVE COMPUTED THE TIME

FRAME. IT WILL

BE INTERSTING IF LAKSHMI CAN COMMENT ON THE SAME. THERE IS A SLIGHT DIFFERENCE

IN THE WORKSHEET. SOME HOW IN HASTE MY AYANAMSA CHANGE BUT IT WILL NOT MAKE A

DIFFERENCE FOR MARRAIGE. HERE IS THE CORRECTED VERSION OF THE WORKSHEET.

MERCURY STILL HAS 18 POINTS FOR 7TH HOUSE AND MOSTLY ALL HOUSES.

Hse

SAV Pt

Su

Mo

Ma

Me

Ju

Ve

Sa

1

25

17

20

12

20

11

7

10

2

23

9

16

14

22

22

14

12

3

31

16

15

12

11

4

14

7

4

26

11

17

7

23

7

10

23

5

32

12

23

9

19

16

22

15

6

32

18

16

18

21

5

8

11

7

20

10

14

9

18

11

18

10

8

19

22

12

9

25

4

17

10

9

28

8

12

14

7

5

21

3

10

34

17

13

7

16

21

16

4

11

38

16

15

15

21

4

15

19

12

29

10

14

11

9

8

14

15

 

THANKING YOU,

CHEERS !!!

ASH

Regards,Chandrashekhar.Ash wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar and Lakshmi,

There is a difference between a house getting 20 bindus and a house getting 19

bindus as you are aware. I agree both are weak with 20 bindus being a stronger

than 19 bindus. At the same token if a bhave gets 1 bindu more it means one

other house is getting 1 bindu less. It also means that some planet has made a

favourable yog w.r.t one house and not with another. Is it not ?

I use Krushnas Ashtakvarga system as you are also aware.

In that SAV is the base from that we derive the strength of each planet for each

and every house and also for each and every 16 divisional chart. When casting

the worksheet the aspects are not considered in the D charts only the basis

strength.

The BAV values given by Parasara in my opinion have become corrupt. The BAV

distribution scheme by Varharamira is correct. The settings are also given in

JHL software where you tick off the check boxes in the lite version. If you

use the option of Varharamira you will get 20 bindus for 7th house. It would

be good to understand if you have intentionally used Parasara's scheme of BAV

or generally use Varharmiras scheme ?

To come to the final stength of each and every planet for each house .

 

Here is the final strength of planet for Ramesh's chart.

 

These are total strength of the planets and derived by considering the following.

 

1) 4:10

2) Addition of 5 points for LoD and LoE or 10th lord and 6th lord from house under consideration

3) Planets in 10th and 6th hosue from house under consideration with > 4 bindus.

4) Planets aspecting primary significator house i.e Karak, phal and phalit sthans.

5) Benefic/Malefic Aspects on karak, phal and phalit sthan

5) Benefic/Malefic Aspect on planets

6) Adjustment of 12th from house under focus

7) Adjustment of 6th lord.

 

After meticulously considering all these factors we come to strength of each

planet for each and every house. Like that we also compute strength for all d

charts but in that we only conider the strength for karak, phal and phalit

sthan for each and every house.

 

You have said that Shani is stronger than Guru. Here you can see both Shani and

Guru at a glace on how they will deliver their results in their respective antar

dasha.

 

I do hear ya regarding the system not being different from parasara. Actually

parasara did give the BAV scheme but it has become corrupt over time.

 

Here Jupiter is in 10th from 10th house so its foritifying 10th house and also

Guru is with 5 bindus in 7th house and in multrikon so its very eager to give

results for 10th house.

 

If you see the worksheet you can see Ju is having 22 points for 10th house and

Shani has 7 points for 10th house. There is a big difference in authority that

Ramesh would have been bestowed in the antras of Guru and Shani.

At the same time if you see expenses v/s income in Guru and shani and compare

the 11th v/s 12th points you can see more expenses in shani compared to Guru

antra.

 

 

House

Signs

SAV

Su

Mo

Ma

Me

Ju

Ve

Sa

1

Gemini

23

16

19

13

20

17

7

16

2

Cancer

24

10

15

20

23

23

14

16

3

Leo

30

9

21

9

19

11

11

13

4

Virgo

26

7

22

9

24

14

4

23

5

Libra

33

8

23

5

20

22

16

19

6

Scorpio

32

16

20

21

24

13

9

17

7

Sagittarius

20

7

19

5

25

17

12

8

8

Capricorn

21

15

19

9

24

9

12

12

9

Aquarius

29

7

17

13

11

14

22

9

10

Pisces

29

13

10

-2

17

22

9

7

11

Aries

40

11

21

10

26

14

10

19

12

Taurus

30

5

21

10

19

12

10

20

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash

 

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

Dear Ash,Even with 20 points the Bhava lacks strength, is it not? Saturn there

however extends protection. By the way I am not aware of any Ashtakavarga

system which gives differential value of Bindus/Rekhas based on Lagna of a

native or placement of a planet in a Rasi, aspects received by it and

association with other planets. May I know to which system you are referring to

and the weightage for these factors given in that system by increasing or

reducing the Bindus/Rekhas.If you are talking about using other parameters in

association with Ashtakavarga then of course that is a different matter and

would not constitute different system than

Parashara.Regards,Chandrashekhar.ashsam73 wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar and LakshmiPardon me for my intervention.I would like to

comment on Ashtakavarga.1) It seems that you have used Parasaras scheme of BAV.

With Varharamiras scheme you get 20 points in Ramesh's 7th house.2) For nodes

are we know are not planets. They are used indirectly. They are samdharmi to

sign lord and nakshatra lord. For natural nature as you have said or quoted in

numerious posts Rahu is like Shani and Ketu like Mars. Functionally they will

be more like the planet i.e. either sign lord or nak lord as per the points

they receive in their BAV. For example, if Rahu is in Gemini and nak of

punarvasu then it will represent Me and Ju. If say Ge is 3rd house and in 3rd

house Ju gets 5 bindus and Me gets say 6 bindus then Rahu will act more like

Mercury. 3) With regards to your comment on

Ashtakavarg not using sign placement is not entirely correct. If used with a

proper system the sign placement can give idea on quantum of result and its not

used to find timing of result. For timing of result Ashtakvarg, SAV and total

strength of planets derived from SAV is good enough to time results

effectively.Maybe knowledge of Ashtakvarg that is available in texts today is

not complete and may lead to confusion. Ashtakvarg system used is an effective

tool in timing of events.A couple of points on Ramesh's chart.1) In Ramesh's

chart there are 2 consecutive zeroes one given by Venus to 7th and one by Mars

to 8th. 2) Jupiter antra will be very eager to bestow authority to Ramesh and

also for acquisition of wealth. Between 1997/04 thru 1999/10 Ramesh might have

been given a role of responsibility. Also a good time to make investments and

accumulation of wealth.

Lakshami can verify this antra.Thanking you,Cheers !!!Ash--- In

vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote:> Dear

Lakshmi,> I think in Ramesh's case Saturn is Lord of the 9th is it not? He not

> only associates a Kendra Lord but is also is in kendra being a trine > lord.

He is also Lord of Navamsha Lagna aspecting Lagna, besides being > placed in a

trikona. Jupiter on the other hand is Lord of 2nd and 11th > in Navamsha and in

3rd house. I would certainly treat Saturn as more > powerful than Jupiter, even

if in Lagna Jupiter appears to be with > greater strength. But there too he is

only a Kendra Lord in Kendra > associating a trine lord. Since we are talking

about 7th house would it

> not be right to look at the Navamsha strengths of the planets, before > coming

to conclusion about 7th house? If we look at Ashtaka Varga then > SAV would

rather prove my view point as it shows 7th house with 19 > points. Personally I

give more weightage to Natal chart read with > Navamsha. the reason is

Ashtakavarga do not consider effects of nodes , > neither do they consider

house ownership or Rasi occupation > weightage.Your opinion would be

appreciated.> Chandrashekhar.> > lakshmi ramesh wrote:> > > Om Gurave Namah> >

> > Namaste Chandrasekar ji,> > > > Even in Ramesh's case, Jupiter is in own

house/moolatrikona. Please > > look at the ashtakavarga & bala of Saturn. Who

is more empowered to > > protect the house, based on both strength and

functionality, Jupiter > > or Saturn? I

request you to ponder on this.> > > > Regards,> > Lakshmi> > > >> >

*/Chandrashekhar <boxdel>/* wrote:> >> > Dear Lakshmi,> > If I may

point out, in Javed's case Guru is in own house and in> > Ramesh's case

Saturn conjuncts Guru. The dictum is Sthana rakshati> > Mandah. Guru's

exception to house damage occurs when he is in own> > house.> >

Chandrashekhar.> >> > lakshmi ramesh wrote:> >> >> Om Gurave Namah> >>

> >> Namaste Pradeep ji,>

>> > >> I happen to know of individuals who have strong Guru in 4th

and> >> 7th. Strong Guru in 4th has blessed the individual with great> >>

knowledge, an intelligence that borders on genius and a rare> >> inner

harmony. That person, a devout Muslim, is one of the finest> >> individuals

I have ever come across, and he is very attached to> >> his family and

mother and there are no problems what so ever on> >> the home front. This

individual is highly esteemed in his work> >> environment and has all the

comforts one could desire. Infact,> >> Guru in 4th is supposed to cast

sukhargala on

lagna, which is> >> good for the general health & happiness of the person.>

>> > >> The individual with Jupiter & Saturn in 7th (Dhanus) is my

own> >> dear husband. We have been very happily married for nearly 20> >>

years. My husband has prospered remarkably after marriage.> >> > >> I

am posting the charts here.> >> > >> I request that you also post the

charts of the individuals to> >> whom you were referring in your post, for

our edification and> >> discussion.> >> >

>> Regards,> >> Lakshmi > >> > >>> >>> >> */vijayadas_pradeep

<vijayadas_pradeep>/* wrote:> >>> >> Dear Chandrashekhar ji> >>>

>> I have been trying to test the principles taught by you> >>

related to> >> guru in various bhavas.> >>> >> When in 3rd

always some difficulties for siblings.Even when> >> in own>

>> sign and in 4th,problems for mother and at home front.> >>> >>

When in 7th at marriage front.When in Lagna and not in own> >> sign

some> >> physical weakness and health problems in childhood.> >>> >>

Thus Guru tests the individual thouroughly.> >>> >> Also sages have

advised that Guru is not favourable while> >> transiting> >>

kendra houses 1,4,and 10th from moon.Only the 7th kendra is> >>

beneficial.(Is there any reason for this?) Only 2nd,5th,7th> >> and 9th>

>> are favourable.11th being good for all planets in general.> >>> >>

Respect> >> Pradeep> >>> >> --- In

vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar> >> <boxdel>> >>

wrote:> >> > Dear Anuj,>

>> > I am glad you agree with me. As you rightly said in your> >>

message> >> to> >> > Razdan,a the dictum is pretty well known

to astrologers.> >> There are> >> many> >> > shlokas to

that effects and charts prove the veracity of the> >> dictum, I> >>

> have myself posted a few of them earlier.> >> > Unfortunately there

is a tendency to mix up terms like>

>> Benefic/Malefic> >> > with the results a planet is likely to

give. This happens more> >> with> >> > Jupiter as people

usually tend to equate it with Deeksha> >> Guru as> >> his> >>

> name in Sanskrit is Guru. People tend to forget Parashara> >>

telling> >> when> >> > Guru can act as Maraka and want to

attribute only good and>

>> pious> >> > attributes to him. I prefer to keep my personal

feelings and> >> prejudices> >> > apart from application of

astrological principles.> >> > Take care,> >> >

Chandrashekhar.> >> >> >> > nameisego wrote:> >> >> >>

> >> >> > > Respected Chandrashekhar ji.>

>> > > Please accpet my pranams as you are the senior most Guru> >>

in age> >> and> >> > > experience in this group.> >>

> > Your observation about Guru is absolutely right.> >> > > Self had

posted in this group and elsewhere an article on "> >> > > "Guru Boon

or Bane??" some time back where it was shown> >> Guru's> >> > >

position in various houses which had been>

>> destroyed/troubled by> >> Guru.> >> > >> >> >

> "Bhava Nasha Karo Jeeva> >> > > Bhava Vriddhhi karau Shanih"> >>

> > This Dictum had been proved by self.> >> > >> >> > > You

may (Mr.Razdan) go thro' older postings and read for> >> yourself and>

>> > > check the examples that were given.>

>> > >> >> > > Difference between Jupiter and saturn is, Jupiter

sucks the> >> goodness> >> > > of a house and gives fruit to

houses it aspects. Saturn> >> sucks the> >> > > houses he

aspects and increases the house it occupies.> >> > >> >> > >

Tatvam-Asi> >> > >> >> > >>

>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >

vedic astrology, PNRazdan> >> <pnrazdan>>

>> > > wrote:> >> > > > Dear Chandrashekhar,> >> > > >

You seem to be extending your arguments against Jupiter>

>> still> >> > > further.> >> > > > Firstly you said

that Jup is ashub in houses it is a> >> designated as a> >> > >

> Karka like 2,5,9,10 and 11 based on the principle of> >> "Karka> >>

Bhavo> >> > > Nasa"> >> > > > . Now you say that it will

harm every house it is> >> placed in.> >>

Why> >> > > this> >> > > > animosity with Jup, the hope of

millions believing in Vedic> >> > > Astrology> >> > > > (in

lighter vein).> >> > > >> >> > > > You refer to some dictum of

a sage, source was not> >> given by> >> you. But> >> >

> > take out any basic book on ancient astrology. It always> >> speaks>

>> of> >> > > the> >> > > > benefic qualities of

Jupiter. Somewhere it is even> >> said, that> >> > > howsoever>

>> > > > bad it may be placed in, it will still try to help the> >>

subject. And> >> > > > this has been amply proved by our experience.>

>> > > > I am afraid. you will have to do some more hardwork for> >>

convincing>

>> > > all> >> > > > about your notions of Jupiter, the heavenly

Brahiman. This> >> would> >> > > even> >> > > > mean a

paradigm shift in Vedic Astrology.> >> > > > Pran Razdan> >> >

> >> >> > > > --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote:> >> > >

>> >> >

> > > Dear Prafulla,> >> > > > > Reference to Leo was in connection with

what> >> Shubhangi had> >> asked.> >> > > > > Jupiter

harming the house he is placed in is a dictum> >> given> >> by>

>> > > sages> >> > > > > and> >> > > > > there is no

reason to try to find out the reason. If one> >> wants to>

>> > > > > find> >> > > > > the reason about Leo, consider this

in natural zodiac> >> Leo is> >> in> >> > > 5th> >>

> > > > house whose occupation by Jupiter leads to Karaka Bhava> >>

Dasha. In> >> > > > > 11th> >> > > > > all planets are Shubha

so it is not only Jupiter who is> >> Shubha>

>> > > there.> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Disha strength is

one amongst many strengths> >> considered but> >> not> >>

> > as> >> > > > > strong as Digbala and Jupiter gets that in Lagna.>

>> > > > > Chandrashekhar.> >> > > > >> >> > > > >

Prafulla Gang wrote:>

>> > > > >> >> > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji> >> > >

> > >> >> > > > > > In my humble view, (Jupiter may not be preferred

in> >> Leo for> >> > > > > Muhurta,> >> > > > > > I do

not know much about muhurta related> >> configurations),It may> >>

> > not> >> > > > > > become weak in

terms of Bala necessarily (generally> >> speaking).> >> > > In>

>> > > > > > fact, jupiter in 3rd house in Libra is considered bad.> >>

> > > > >> >> > > > > > Jupiter in 11th house (any sign) will

have directional> >> strength> >> > > to> >> > > > > >

initiate for results.> >> > > > > >>

>> > > > > > There must be more than this reason, for jupiter to> >>

give> >> > > negative> >> > > > > > results.> >> > >

> > >> >> > > > > > regards/Prafulla Gang> >> > > > > >> >>

> > > > >> >> > > > > > vedic astrology,

Chandrashekhar> >> > > > > <boxdel>> >> > > > > > wrote:>

>> > > > > > > Dear Shubhangi,> >> > > > > > > Being an Indian

you must know that Jupiter looses his> >> > > strength in> >> >

> > > > Leo> >> > > > > > > and that is why there are no Muhurtas for>

>> marriages when>

>> > > Jupiter> >> > > > > > > occupies Leo or what is called as

Simhastha. That> >> is due> >> to> >> > > the> >>

> > > > > fact of> >> > > > > > > Guru lacking Bala. In your brother's

case Sun> >> being in> >> own> >> > > Rasi> >>

> > > > >

makes> >> > > > > > > him Shubha and therefore good relations with> >>

Father. But> >> I> >> > > would> >> > > > > > say

he> >> > > > > > > would not follow father's profession.> >> >

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >

Shubhangi Naik wrote:> >> >

> > > > >> >> > > > > > > >Dear Sir,> >> > > > > > > >> >>

> > > > > > >Sorry for intervening in your session, but I am> >>

curious> >> to> >> > > know> >> > > > > > the logic

behind jupiter losing its strength in leo> >> and> >> hence> >>

> > this>

>> > > > > > email.> >> > > > > > > >Yes, your dictum worked in

my brother's case also.> >> > > > > > > >My brother has sun+jup in leo

but in 8th, no> >> doubt he> >> is very> >> > > > > >

intelligent but did not do much well in academics> >> and yes,> >>

he> >> > > did> >> > > > > > fail

once in his 10th class.> >> > > > > > > >With my half knowledge I

thought the reason to> >> be the> >> > > > > positioning> >>

> > > > > of both the planets in 8th, but now curious to know> >>

why jup> >> > > losses> >> > > > > > strength in leo.> >>

> > > > > > >But though both planets are positioned in 8th, both> >>

father>

>> > > and> >> > > > > > son shares good relation with each

other.> >> > > > > > > >Thanks,> >> > > > > > > >Shubhangi> >>

> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >>

> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > >

> > > > >> >> > > > > > > >On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 Chandrashekhar wrote :>

>> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >

>>Dear Dhira,> >> > > > > > > >>There you see the dictum working. Is it

not?> >> > > > > > > >>Regards,> >> > > > > > >

>>Chandrashekhar.> >> > > > > > > >>> >&