: To be Guru or Not to be ?? to Sri Sanjay Rath

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Sanjay Rath ji,

 

Just one question please. (You may choose not to reply)

 

If a Shishya errs in his/her behaviour and strays from set path, will

the sins/mistakes committed by such shishyas affect Guru morally and

spiritually ? Should the Guru owe moral responsibility in such a

case ?

 

This question arises because somewhere, Guru has gone wrong in

choosing a shishya and he has to bear the resultant Paap.

 

Tatvam-Asi

 

 

 

>

> vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" <guruji@s...>

> wrote:

> >

> > ::om namo bhagavate vasudevaya::

> > Dear Mukund, Rosemary & Partha

> >

> > The intention of Mukund cannot be bad. He has an exalted Guru in

> the dharma

> > bhava. He helps to keep conscience clear by reminding all of us

of

> our

> > duties once in a while. That is a good work. With time and age

his

> words

> > maybe sweeter and softer but there is no doubt in my mind about

his

> > intentions.

> >

> > There are some who make strange and sometimes very bad remarks.

> Such remarks

> > caused from Rajas guna or passion shall never help anyone -

neither

> they

> > themselves nor the person they are being told to. The same view if

> > communicated with sweet words will find their mark.

> >

> > Mukund, in ancient India we had kings like Raja Rama by looking

at

> whose

> > face the Brahmin can confidently renounce everything and

> concentrate in his

> > work. give me one name...just one name among the 100 billion

people

> of India

> > whose face I can see and confidently give up my tours and

> concentrate on

> > translating BPHS, Saravali, Deva Keralam and other works or

finish

> my book

> > on Atmakaraka. Yes your statements are right about flying first

> class and

> > living in Palaces. But that does not prevent them from being

Gurus

> either.

> > Even Raja Janak the giver of the 'Hare Rama Krishna' mantra lived

> in a

> > palace and was a Rajarshi. He gave the mantra for Veda Vyasa's

son.

> Was Veda

> > Vyasa wrong in advising his son to take mantra from Raja Janaka?

> >

> > No, we should not judge the calibre of a Guru from the material

> goods he

> > possesses. We should judge a Guru from the knowledge he has. That

> is what

> > Vasistha has taught. Imbibe their good values and their knowledge

> and ignore

> > their bad values and personal traits that comes from living as

> human beings

> > do.

> >

> > Just because I do not own even a car, what to talk of property

and

> house,

> > does not qualify me to be a Guru. Knowledge alone qualifies me to

> be a

> > Jytosih Guru. Just because Narasimha has three cars and a few

huge

> houses

> > does not disqualify him from being a guru. His knowledge

qualifies

> him to be

> > a Jyotish Guru. So Mukund the parameters you use to identify a

guru

> are

> > wrong and this will lead you to the wrong guru. Choose the

> parameters

> > correctly and you will reach your destination. Choose knowledge,

> Satva guna

> > predominance in behavior and dharma to be the criteria for a

Diksha

> Guru;

> > choose knowledge as the most important criteria for siksha gurus.

> remember

> > these four mantra that define the guru -

> > OM gurave namah (obeisances to the teacher/remover of darkness)

> > OM parama gurave namah

> > OM paratpara gurave namah, and

> > OM paramesthi gurave namah (that is for Shiva, and all knowledge)

> >

> > With best regards,

> > Sanjay Rath

> > SJC Puri, 212 Gopal Ballav Road, Puri 752001, India

> > Tel: +91.6752.226269 http://srath.com

> >

> > -

> > monmuk111

> > vedic astrology

> > Thursday, June 24, 2004 9:27 PM

> > [vedic astrology] Re: : To be Guru or Not to be ?? to

> Rosemary ,

> > Partha, Venkat

> >

> >

> > Hello Rosemary and Partha:

> >

> > First and foremost,if I offended anyone with my "Guru" questions,

I

> > apologize.

> >

> > My intent wasn't malicious. My intent was to understand how can

> > people flying first class, riding rolls-royce and living in

palatial

> > homes claim to be Gurus?

> >

> > Partha has Indian roots so he knows about the lifestyle of the

REAL

> > Gurus, but Rosemary, if you're not well-versed about life in

India,

> > I'd like to tell you that REAL Brahmins and Gurus in India live

off

> > donations received from patrons and the life style is simple and

> > somtimes really poor.

> >

> > Rosemary, even in ancient India, the Gurus lived off whatever

> > donations the Kings made to them and Venkat has already named a

few-

> -

> > Vishwamitra, Drona, etc. In fact, Drona fought on the side of

> > Kauravas during the Mahabharat war because he was living off

> donation

> > from King Duryodhan.

> >

> > So, the question I had posed was that if some who is profiteering

> > from the sacred Vedic knowledge and isn't living like a Hermit on

> > donation, can this person call himself a Guru?

> >

> > I feel I had asked a valid question, but it appears that my

> questions

> > have riled up somuch negative emotions that we should end this

> debate

> > as Partha has suggested.

> >

> > Respectfully,

> > Mukund

> >

> > vedic astrology, "R Innes-Jones" <rf.innes-

> > jones@x> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > Dear Monmuk111,

> > > > Why and where are you coming from to paint such a rascist then

> > sexist ,

> > > separatist

> > > > picture? Why are you drawing lines and circles about Brahmins

> and

> > Gurus

> > > and

> > > > separating yourself from truth.

> > > > Where is the advaita here? It is all one.

> > > > You are as much a part of me and I you. This play of creation

> > with its

> > > > actors is not who we really are. Why the preference and claim

to

> > one part

> > > or

> > > > another?

> > > >

> > > > Ask yourself, in the pureness of your heart, is their any

> > difference

> > > between

> > > > yourself, the 'false' guru and the 'true'

> > > guru.............................

> > > >

> > > > Kind regards

> > > > Rosemary

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > "monmuk111" <monmuk111>

> > > > <vedic astrology>

> > > > Thursday, June 24, 2004 9:31 AM

> > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Fwd: >Venkatarama--to Venkat

and

> > Aman

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hello Aman:

> > > >

> > > > You have NICELY reflected the SAME sentiments I feel. I've

done

> > is in

> > > > an abrasive way.

> > > >

> > > > The issues are:

> > > >

> > > > 1) Who can be a Guru?

> > > > 2) And, can someone who IS NOT living a Brahminical life of

> > living on

> > > > donations and of not profiteering from Vedic knowledge become

a

> > Guru?

> > > > 3) In India, practicing Brahmins live an extremely Brahminic

> > > > lifestyle ever since they're kids, i.e. began learning rituals

> > from

> > > > their father and grandfather in childhood, then go to Benaras

> and

> > > > study Vedas and Vedic rituals for many, many years AND FINALLY

> > become

> > > > a PUNDIT/GURU/BRAHMIN who performs various rituals, rites

> > including

> > > > giving out mantras. Now, can a person who hasn't BEEN thorough

> > this

> > > > process become a GURU and give out Mantras?

> > > >

> > > > Venkat has made a nice attempt to answer these, but is

sitting

> on

> > the

> > > > fence on some important issue of whether someone who isn't

born

> a

> > > > Brahmin and doesn't live a Brahminic lifestyle become a Guru

and

> > > > perform rites, rituals and give out Mantras.

> > > >

> > > > Let's see what other members have to say. I'm hoping I'm not

> > BOOTED

> > > > from this group for asking such questions.

> > > >

> > > > Mukund

[Guest guest]

::om namo bhagavate vasudevaya::

Dear 'name-is-ego'

First, the teachings of Sri Acyuta Das about name are very interesting. It

is ego because you are attached to it. The attachment is not the fault of

the name nor the fault of the world but our own fault. Names have existed

since time immemorial so by running away from one's name or not giving one's

name one does not escape from the ego attached to it. It is like a prisoner

runing away from Prison but the crime remains unpunished.

Bhakti is taught to be he best path for this as then one gets attached to

another name and in the process gets over the attachment to one's own name.

The janaka Shadakshara mantra is meant for this and the name Krishna is the

ONLY name in kali Yuga that when attached to any mantra or prayer, does not

carry any dosha. Rest is for one as intelligent as you to think. It is

considered rude not to sign ones name and it is your wish....you decide.

Second, yes if the sishya errs in his/her path then the sins for such error

shall lie on the head of the sishya. The guru shall suffer a small part of

the sin and gets ill fame due to this straying of the sishya. If the guru is

a diksha guru then he is already committed to take one-sixth portion of the

sin and if not then the share of the sin is much less.

Remedial measures given by a Jyotisha come under this. When one gives a

mantra or any other remedial measure then you must have the spiritual

strength to take one-sixth of the sin associated with the combination

indicated else the remedial measure does not work. Alternatively, blindly

give everything accepting Sri Jagannath as the ultimate guru (om krishna

guru) then He knows how to take care...this seems to be the only path in

Kali yuga as who has such spiritual strength.

Some of my sishya have also erred and I have been very clear in telling them

that I am only a siksha guru and NOT a diksha guru. To that extent the share

shall be less. I leave the counting to Jagannath and keep walking on this

great journey called jyotisa..

Your writings have been very intelligent, please keep it up

With best regards,

Sanjay Rath

SJC Puri, 212 Gopal Ballav Road, Puri 752001, India

Tel: +91.6752.226269 http://srath.com

 

-

"nameisego" <nameisego

<vedic astrology>

Monday, June 28, 2004 5:27 AM

[vedic astrology] Re: : To be Guru or Not to be ?? to Sri Sanjay

Rath

 

 

 

 

Dear Sri Sanjay Rath ji,

 

Just one question please. (You may choose not to reply)

 

If a Shishya errs in his/her behaviour and strays from set path, will

the sins/mistakes committed by such shishyas affect Guru morally and

spiritually ? Should the Guru owe moral responsibility in such a

case ?

 

This question arises because somewhere, Guru has gone wrong in

choosing a shishya and he has to bear the resultant Paap.

 

Tatvam-Asi

 

 

 

>

> vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" <guruji@s...>

> wrote:

> >

> > ::om namo bhagavate vasudevaya::

> > Dear Mukund, Rosemary & Partha

> >

> > The intention of Mukund cannot be bad. He has an exalted Guru in

> the dharma

> > bhava. He helps to keep conscience clear by reminding all of us

of

> our

> > duties once in a while. That is a good work. With time and age

his

> words

> > maybe sweeter and softer but there is no doubt in my mind about

his

> > intentions.

> >

> > There are some who make strange and sometimes very bad remarks.

> Such remarks

> > caused from Rajas guna or passion shall never help anyone -

neither

> they

> > themselves nor the person they are being told to. The same view if

> > communicated with sweet words will find their mark.

> >

> > Mukund, in ancient India we had kings like Raja Rama by looking

at

> whose

> > face the Brahmin can confidently renounce everything and

> concentrate in his

> > work. give me one name...just one name among the 100 billion

people

> of India

> > whose face I can see and confidently give up my tours and

> concentrate on

> > translating BPHS, Saravali, Deva Keralam and other works or

finish

> my book

> > on Atmakaraka. Yes your statements are right about flying first

> class and

> > living in Palaces. But that does not prevent them from being

Gurus

> either.

> > Even Raja Janak the giver of the 'Hare Rama Krishna' mantra lived

> in a

> > palace and was a Rajarshi. He gave the mantra for Veda Vyasa's

son.

> Was Veda

> > Vyasa wrong in advising his son to take mantra from Raja Janaka?

> >

> > No, we should not judge the calibre of a Guru from the material

> goods he

> > possesses. We should judge a Guru from the knowledge he has. That

> is what

> > Vasistha has taught. Imbibe their good values and their knowledge

> and ignore

> > their bad values and personal traits that comes from living as

> human beings

> > do.

> >

> > Just because I do not own even a car, what to talk of property

and

> house,

> > does not qualify me to be a Guru. Knowledge alone qualifies me to

> be a

> > Jytosih Guru. Just because Narasimha has three cars and a few

huge

> houses

> > does not disqualify him from being a guru. His knowledge

qualifies

> him to be

> > a Jyotish Guru. So Mukund the parameters you use to identify a

guru

> are

> > wrong and this will lead you to the wrong guru. Choose the

> parameters

> > correctly and you will reach your destination. Choose knowledge,

> Satva guna

> > predominance in behavior and dharma to be the criteria for a

Diksha

> Guru;

> > choose knowledge as the most important criteria for siksha gurus.

> remember

> > these four mantra that define the guru -

> > OM gurave namah (obeisances to the teacher/remover of darkness)

> > OM parama gurave namah

> > OM paratpara gurave namah, and

> > OM paramesthi gurave namah (that is for Shiva, and all knowledge)

> >

> > With best regards,

> > Sanjay Rath

> > SJC Puri, 212 Gopal Ballav Road, Puri 752001, India

> > Tel: +91.6752.226269 http://srath.com

> >

> > -

> > monmuk111

> > vedic astrology

> > Thursday, June 24, 2004 9:27 PM

> > [vedic astrology] Re: : To be Guru or Not to be ?? to

> Rosemary ,

> > Partha, Venkat

> >

> >

> > Hello Rosemary and Partha:

> >

> > First and foremost,if I offended anyone with my "Guru" questions,

I

> > apologize.

> >

> > My intent wasn't malicious. My intent was to understand how can

> > people flying first class, riding rolls-royce and living in

palatial

> > homes claim to be Gurus?

> >

> > Partha has Indian roots so he knows about the lifestyle of the

REAL

> > Gurus, but Rosemary, if you're not well-versed about life in

India,

> > I'd like to tell you that REAL Brahmins and Gurus in India live

off

> > donations received from patrons and the life style is simple and

> > somtimes really poor.

> >

> > Rosemary, even in ancient India, the Gurus lived off whatever

> > donations the Kings made to them and Venkat has already named a

few-

> -

> > Vishwamitra, Drona, etc. In fact, Drona fought on the side of

> > Kauravas during the Mahabharat war because he was living off

> donation

> > from King Duryodhan.

> >

> > So, the question I had posed was that if some who is profiteering

> > from the sacred Vedic knowledge and isn't living like a Hermit on

> > donation, can this person call himself a Guru?

> >

> > I feel I had asked a valid question, but it appears that my

> questions

> > have riled up somuch negative emotions that we should end this

> debate

> > as Partha has suggested.

> >

> > Respectfully,

> > Mukund

> >

> > vedic astrology, "R Innes-Jones" <rf.innes-

> > jones@x> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > Dear Monmuk111,

> > > > Why and where are you coming from to paint such a rascist then

> > sexist ,

> > > separatist

> > > > picture? Why are you drawing lines and circles about Brahmins

> and

> > Gurus

> > > and

> > > > separating yourself from truth.

> > > > Where is the advaita here? It is all one.

> > > > You are as much a part of me and I you. This play of creation

> > with its

> > > > actors is not who we really are. Why the preference and claim

to

> > one part

> > > or

> > > > another?

> > > >

> > > > Ask yourself, in the pureness of your heart, is their any

> > difference

> > > between

> > > > yourself, the 'false' guru and the 'true'

> > > guru.............................

> > > >

> > > > Kind regards

> > > > Rosemary

> > > >

> > > > -

> > > > "monmuk111" <monmuk111>

> > > > <vedic astrology>

> > > > Thursday, June 24, 2004 9:31 AM

> > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Fwd: >Venkatarama--to Venkat

and

> > Aman

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hello Aman:

> > > >

> > > > You have NICELY reflected the SAME sentiments I feel. I've

done

> > is in

> > > > an abrasive way.

> > > >

> > > > The issues are:

> > > >

> > > > 1) Who can be a Guru?

> > > > 2) And, can someone who IS NOT living a Brahminical life of

> > living on

> > > > donations and of not profiteering from Vedic knowledge become

a

> > Guru?

> > > > 3) In India, practicing Brahmins live an extremely Brahminic

> > > > lifestyle ever since they're kids, i.e. began learning rituals

> > from

> > > > their father and grandfather in childhood, then go to Benaras

> and

> > > > study Vedas and Vedic rituals for many, many years AND FINALLY

> > become

> > > > a PUNDIT/GURU/BRAHMIN who performs various rituals, rites

> > including

> > > > giving out mantras. Now, can a person who hasn't BEEN thorough

> > this

> > > > process become a GURU and give out Mantras?

> > > >

> > > > Venkat has made a nice attempt to answer these, but is

sitting

> on

> > the

> > > > fence on some important issue of whether someone who isn't

born

> a

> > > > Brahmin and doesn't live a Brahminic lifestyle become a Guru

and

> > > > perform rites, rituals and give out Mantras.

> > > >

> > > > Let's see what other members have to say. I'm hoping I'm not

> > BOOTED

> > > > from this group for asking such questions.

> > > >

> > > > Mukund

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sponsor

 

 

 

 

 

----------

----

vedic astrology/

 

b..

vedic astrology

 

c..

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Sanjay ji,

 

About the name and ego.

Thanks for very good explanation about necessity of name and about

Ego.

But the undersigned is not running away from name or usage of it.

The reasons may be beyond the scope of this discussion.

 

You have said,

 

"Your writings have been very intelligent, please keep it up"

 

This being is just logical.

Not given to writing in great detail, hence sometimes very abrupt but

to the point.

Any how if the ego does not get inflated,.... THANKS !! for the

compliments.

But real lawful right for the compliments is of the Japanese teacher

who taught advanced hydraulics in Japan.

He would say,

 

"Okyakusama, if you are faced with a problem, Think Logically and Go

back to Basics . The solution lies in simple things."

 

Thus you would always find this being stressing the need to be simple

and logical.

 

Tatvam-Asi

 

 

 

 

 

vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" <guruji@s...>

wrote:

>

> ::om namo bhagavate vasudevaya::

> Dear 'name-is-ego'

> First, the teachings of Sri Acyuta Das about name are very

interesting. It

> is ego because you are attached to it. The attachment is not the

fault of

> the name nor the fault of the world but our own fault. Names have

existed

> since time immemorial so by running away from one's name or not

giving one's

> name one does not escape from the ego attached to it. It is like a

prisoner

> runing away from Prison but the crime remains unpunished.

> Bhakti is taught to be he best path for this as then one gets

attached to

> another name and in the process gets over the attachment to one's

own name.

> The janaka Shadakshara mantra is meant for this and the name

Krishna is the

> ONLY name in kali Yuga that when attached to any mantra or prayer,

does not

> carry any dosha. Rest is for one as intelligent as you to think. It

is

> considered rude not to sign ones name and it is your wish....you

decide.

> Second, yes if the sishya errs in his/her path then the sins for

such error

> shall lie on the head of the sishya. The guru shall suffer a small

part of

> the sin and gets ill fame due to this straying of the sishya. If

the guru is

> a diksha guru then he is already committed to take one-sixth

portion of the

> sin and if not then the share of the sin is much less.

> Remedial measures given by a Jyotisha come under this. When one

gives a

> mantra or any other remedial measure then you must have the

spiritual

> strength to take one-sixth of the sin associated with the

combination

> indicated else the remedial measure does not work. Alternatively,

blindly

> give everything accepting Sri Jagannath as the ultimate guru (om

krishna

> guru) then He knows how to take care...this seems to be the only

path in

> Kali yuga as who has such spiritual strength.

> Some of my sishya have also erred and I have been very clear in

telling them

> that I am only a siksha guru and NOT a diksha guru. To that extent

the share

> shall be less. I leave the counting to Jagannath and keep walking

on this

> great journey called jyotisa..

> Your writings have been very intelligent, please keep it up

> With best regards,

> Sanjay Rath

> SJC Puri, 212 Gopal Ballav Road, Puri 752001, India

> Tel: +91.6752.226269 http://srath.com

>

> -

> "nameisego" <nameisego>

> <vedic astrology>

> Monday, June 28, 2004 5:27 AM

> [vedic astrology] Re: : To be Guru or Not to be ?? to Sri

Sanjay

> Rath

>

>

>

>

> Dear Sri Sanjay Rath ji,

>

> Just one question please. (You may choose not to reply)

>

> If a Shishya errs in his/her behaviour and strays from set path,

will

> the sins/mistakes committed by such shishyas affect Guru morally and

> spiritually ? Should the Guru owe moral responsibility in such a

> case ?

>

> This question arises because somewhere, Guru has gone wrong in

> choosing a shishya and he has to bear the resultant Paap.

>

> Tatvam-Asi

>

>

>

> >

> > vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath"

<guruji@s...>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > ::om namo bhagavate vasudevaya::

> > > Dear Mukund, Rosemary & Partha

> > >

> > > The intention of Mukund cannot be bad. He has an exalted Guru in

> > the dharma

> > > bhava. He helps to keep conscience clear by reminding all of us

> of

> > our

> > > duties once in a while. That is a good work. With time and age

> his

> > words

> > > maybe sweeter and softer but there is no doubt in my mind about

> his

> > > intentions.

> > >

> > > There are some who make strange and sometimes very bad remarks.

> > Such remarks

> > > caused from Rajas guna or passion shall never help anyone -

> neither

> > they

> > > themselves nor the person they are being told to. The same view

if

> > > communicated with sweet words will find their mark.

> > >

> > > Mukund, in ancient India we had kings like Raja Rama by looking

> at

> > whose

> > > face the Brahmin can confidently renounce everything and

> > concentrate in his

> > > work. give me one name...just one name among the 100 billion

> people

> > of India

> > > whose face I can see and confidently give up my tours and

> > concentrate on

> > > translating BPHS, Saravali, Deva Keralam and other works or

> finish

> > my book

> > > on Atmakaraka. Yes your statements are right about flying first

> > class and

> > > living in Palaces. But that does not prevent them from being

> Gurus

> > either.

> > > Even Raja Janak the giver of the 'Hare Rama Krishna' mantra

lived

> > in a

> > > palace and was a Rajarshi. He gave the mantra for Veda Vyasa's

> son.

> > Was Veda

> > > Vyasa wrong in advising his son to take mantra from Raja Janaka?

> > >

> > > No, we should not judge the calibre of a Guru from the material

> > goods he

> > > possesses. We should judge a Guru from the knowledge he has.

That

> > is what

> > > Vasistha has taught. Imbibe their good values and their

knowledge

> > and ignore

> > > their bad values and personal traits that comes from living as

> > human beings

> > > do.

> > >

> > > Just because I do not own even a car, what to talk of property

> and

> > house,

> > > does not qualify me to be a Guru. Knowledge alone qualifies me

to

> > be a

> > > Jytosih Guru. Just because Narasimha has three cars and a few

> huge

> > houses

> > > does not disqualify him from being a guru. His knowledge

> qualifies

> > him to be

> > > a Jyotish Guru. So Mukund the parameters you use to identify a

> guru

> > are

> > > wrong and this will lead you to the wrong guru. Choose the

> > parameters

> > > correctly and you will reach your destination. Choose knowledge,

> > Satva guna

> > > predominance in behavior and dharma to be the criteria for a

> Diksha

> > Guru;

> > > choose knowledge as the most important criteria for siksha

gurus.

> > remember

> > > these four mantra that define the guru -

> > > OM gurave namah (obeisances to the teacher/remover of darkness)

> > > OM parama gurave namah

> > > OM paratpara gurave namah, and

> > > OM paramesthi gurave namah (that is for Shiva, and all

knowledge)

> > >

> > > With best regards,

> > > Sanjay Rath

> > > SJC Puri, 212 Gopal Ballav Road, Puri 752001, India

> > > Tel: +91.6752.226269 http://srath.com

> > >

> > > -

> > > monmuk111

> > > vedic astrology

> > > Thursday, June 24, 2004 9:27 PM

> > > [vedic astrology] Re: : To be Guru or Not to be ?? to

> > Rosemary ,

> > > Partha, Venkat

> > >

> > >

> > > Hello Rosemary and Partha:

> > >

> > > First and foremost,if I offended anyone with my "Guru"

questions,

> I

> > > apologize.

> > >

> > > My intent wasn't malicious. My intent was to understand how can

> > > people flying first class, riding rolls-royce and living in

> palatial

> > > homes claim to be Gurus?

> > >

> > > Partha has Indian roots so he knows about the lifestyle of the

> REAL

> > > Gurus, but Rosemary, if you're not well-versed about life in

> India,

> > > I'd like to tell you that REAL Brahmins and Gurus in India live

> off

> > > donations received from patrons and the life style is simple and

> > > somtimes really poor.

> > >

> > > Rosemary, even in ancient India, the Gurus lived off whatever

> > > donations the Kings made to them and Venkat has already named a

> few-

> > -

> > > Vishwamitra, Drona, etc. In fact, Drona fought on the side of

> > > Kauravas during the Mahabharat war because he was living off

> > donation

> > > from King Duryodhan.

> > >

> > > So, the question I had posed was that if some who is

profiteering

> > > from the sacred Vedic knowledge and isn't living like a Hermit

on

> > > donation, can this person call himself a Guru?

> > >

> > > I feel I had asked a valid question, but it appears that my

> > questions

> > > have riled up somuch negative emotions that we should end this

> > debate

> > > as Partha has suggested.

> > >

> > > Respectfully,

> > > Mukund

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "R Innes-Jones"

<rf.innes-

> > > jones@x> wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Dear Monmuk111,

> > > > > Why and where are you coming from to paint such a rascist

then

> > > sexist ,

> > > > separatist

> > > > > picture? Why are you drawing lines and circles about

Brahmins

> > and

> > > Gurus

> > > > and

> > > > > separating yourself from truth.

> > > > > Where is the advaita here? It is all one.

> > > > > You are as much a part of me and I you. This play of

creation

> > > with its

> > > > > actors is not who we really are. Why the preference and

claim

> to

> > > one part

> > > > or

> > > > > another?

> > > > >

> > > > > Ask yourself, in the pureness of your heart, is their any

> > > difference

> > > > between

> > > > > yourself, the 'false' guru and the 'true'

> > > > guru.............................

> > > > >

> > > > > Kind regards

> > > > > Rosemary

> > > > >

> > > > > -

> > > > > "monmuk111" <monmuk111>

> > > > > <vedic astrology>

> > > > > Thursday, June 24, 2004 9:31 AM

> > > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Fwd: >Venkatarama--to Venkat

> and

> > > Aman

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Hello Aman:

> > > > >

> > > > > You have NICELY reflected the SAME sentiments I feel. I've

> done

> > > is in

> > > > > an abrasive way.

> > > > >

> > > > > The issues are:

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) Who can be a Guru?

> > > > > 2) And, can someone who IS NOT living a Brahminical life of

> > > living on

> > > > > donations and of not profiteering from Vedic knowledge

become

> a

> > > Guru?

> > > > > 3) In India, practicing Brahmins live an extremely Brahminic

> > > > > lifestyle ever since they're kids, i.e. began learning

rituals

> > > from

> > > > > their father and grandfather in childhood, then go to

Benaras

> > and

> > > > > study Vedas and Vedic rituals for many, many years AND

FINALLY

> > > become

> > > > > a PUNDIT/GURU/BRAHMIN who performs various rituals, rites

> > > including

> > > > > giving out mantras. Now, can a person who hasn't BEEN

thorough

> > > this

> > > > > process become a GURU and give out Mantras?

> > > > >

> > > > > Venkat has made a nice attempt to answer these, but is

> sitting

> > on

> > > the

> > > > > fence on some important issue of whether someone who isn't

> born

> > a

> > > > > Brahmin and doesn't live a Brahminic lifestyle become a Guru

> and

> > > > > perform rites, rituals and give out Mantras.

> > > > >

> > > > > Let's see what other members have to say. I'm hoping I'm not

> > > BOOTED

> > > > > from this group for asking such questions.

> > > > >

> > > > > Mukund

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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