Guest guest Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Hello Sundeep: There are spiritual people all around the world and even some in the Muslim faith and therefore they'll definitely have spirituality and enlightment yogas in their horoscopes; however, these yogas don't make them either Hindus or Brahmins. A Hindu, Sikh, Sindhi and Buddish is BORN, not MADE. And, within these four faiths, a Brahmin (the person who administers rituals and mantras) is BORN and not MADE. And, even amongst Brahmins, are true Brahmin is the one who is trained in rituals since he is a child and lives a Brhaminical life of administering rituals, speaking and teaching mantras, practising Hora-shastra (Vedic astrology) and living a simple and ususally poor life from donations he collects from the homes, i.e. not profiteering from his Brahiminical and Vedic knowledge. I've never contested the existence of spritiuality and enlightenment amongst non-Hindus. I've contested the "giving" of Mantras and becoming of "Gurus" by foreigners who're "made" Hindus and "mad" Brahmins rather than "born" Hindus and "born" Brahmins. Mukund vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent" <vedicastrostudent> wrote: > Mukund, > Why dont you put your money where your mouth is, to show us that > you really believe what you say? Frame an astrological challenge: "I, > Mukund the Hindu, sorry Mukund the Born Hindu, will give 1,000 US > dollars of my money to each person who shows the astrological proof > of the existence of spirituality and enlightenment yogas in non- > Indians and non-born-Hindus". From your point of view, no one should > be able to collect from you, right? You can have some respectable > born-Hindu Guru verify the charts.. I'm willing to put forth a couple > of charts of non-Indian non-born-Hindu gurus on this group in order > to collect a few grand.. > > Now, that would make your belief really interesting to me.. > > Sundeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Mukund, I know your email was directed to Sundeep, but heck, this is more interesting than work, :-) so may I add my two cents? If you contest the giving of mantras and the becoming of Gurus by non-Brahmins, how about the examples from our own scriptures? For example, Swami Vishwamitra was not a Brahmin, he was a Kshatriya by birth. Yet, he was the one that gave mantras to no less a person than the great Lord Sree Raama and Lakshmana. Or take Sage Valmeeki. He was a hunter by birth, which would make him a Sudra, not a Brahmin, yet he was the great rishi that gave the Ramayana to the world. Is he not a Guru worthy of our deepest devotion? Venkatarama vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111> wrote: > Hello Sundeep: > > There are spiritual people all around the world and even some in the > Muslim faith and therefore they'll definitely have spirituality and > enlightment yogas in their horoscopes; however, these yogas don't > make them either Hindus or Brahmins. > > A Hindu, Sikh, Sindhi and Buddish is BORN, not MADE. And, within > these four faiths, a Brahmin (the person who administers rituals and > mantras) is BORN and not MADE. > > And, even amongst Brahmins, are true Brahmin is the one who is > trained in rituals since he is a child and lives a Brhaminical life > of administering rituals, speaking and teaching mantras, practising > Hora-shastra (Vedic astrology) and living a simple and ususally poor > life from donations he collects from the homes, i.e. not profiteering > from his Brahiminical and Vedic knowledge. > > I've never contested the existence of spritiuality and enlightenment > amongst non-Hindus. I've contested the "giving" of Mantras and > becoming of "Gurus" by foreigners who're "made" Hindus and "mad" > Brahmins rather than "born" Hindus and "born" Brahmins. > > Mukund > > vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent" > <vedicastrostudent> wrote: > > Mukund, > > Why dont you put your money where your mouth is, to show us that > > you really believe what you say? Frame an astrological > challenge: "I, > > Mukund the Hindu, sorry Mukund the Born Hindu, will give 1,000 US > > dollars of my money to each person who shows the astrological proof > > of the existence of spirituality and enlightenment yogas in non- > > Indians and non-born-Hindus". From your point of view, no one > should > > be able to collect from you, right? You can have some respectable > > born-Hindu Guru verify the charts.. I'm willing to put forth a > couple > > of charts of non-Indian non-born-Hindu gurus on this group in order > > to collect a few grand.. > > > > Now, that would make your belief really interesting to me.. > > > > Sundeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Firstly, i would like to thank the others that have so nicely illustrated the case about meera-bhai, chaitanya-maha prabhu, valimiki and above all vishwamitra. A brahmin, kshatriya, vysya and sudra were initially the 4 varnas or casts based on the 4 laskhyas or paths - moksha, dharma, artha and kama. It is said that during our many incarnations our soul may have degraded itself to being that of a sudra (essentially due to our minds being involved in tamas), then as we gain more knowledge our soul clears up further and we become a vysya (where rajo-guna is acting on the tamasic elements to produce work and gains, and indulgence in pleasures) - at this point our lakshya is artha. The next stage of our soul's evolution is to become a kshatriya (where our rajo-guna acts on the sattvic qualities) thereby producing a passionate person who will be the upholder of dharma (Arjuna for example). The final stage is that of being completely sattvic and attaining the ultimate wisdom of god-realization where one becomes a brahmin. Once one realizes that the true essence of becoming a brahmin is in attaining moksha, then these trivialities with their singing and dancing, etc will be less and less of a criteria. Infact the soul regardless of whether a person is hindu, indian, russian, american, etc progresses through these 4 stages to finally attain moksha. Keeping the above in mind, it's easy to see how everyone will one day become a brahmin in reality, not in maya perhaps (which is what you were refferring to). - Jaiom tat sat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.