: To be Guru or Not to be ?? to Rosemary , Partha, Venkat

[Guest guest]

Hello Rosemary and Partha:

 

First and foremost,if I offended anyone with my "Guru" questions, I

apologize.

 

My intent wasn't malicious. My intent was to understand how can

people flying first class, riding rolls-royce and living in palatial

homes claim to be Gurus?

 

Partha has Indian roots so he knows about the lifestyle of the REAL

Gurus, but Rosemary, if you're not well-versed about life in India,

I'd like to tell you that REAL Brahmins and Gurus in India live off

donations received from patrons and the life style is simple and

somtimes really poor.

 

Rosemary, even in ancient India, the Gurus lived off whatever

donations the Kings made to them and Venkat has already named a few--

Vishwamitra, Drona, etc. In fact, Drona fought on the side of

Kauravas during the Mahabharat war because he was living off donation

from King Duryodhan.

 

So, the question I had posed was that if some who is profiteering

from the sacred Vedic knowledge and isn't living like a Hermit on

donation, can this person call himself a Guru?

 

I feel I had asked a valid question, but it appears that my questions

have riled up somuch negative emotions that we should end this debate

as Partha has suggested.

 

Respectfully,

Mukund

 

vedic astrology, "R Innes-Jones" <rf.innes-

jones@x> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> > Dear Monmuk111,

> > Why and where are you coming from to paint such a rascist then

sexist ,

> separatist

> > picture? Why are you drawing lines and circles about Brahmins and

Gurus

> and

> > separating yourself from truth.

> > Where is the advaita here? It is all one.

> > You are as much a part of me and I you. This play of creation

with its

> > actors is not who we really are. Why the preference and claim to

one part

> or

> > another?

> >

> > Ask yourself, in the pureness of your heart, is their any

difference

> between

> > yourself, the 'false' guru and the 'true'

> guru.............................

> >

> > Kind regards

> > Rosemary

> >

> > -

> > "monmuk111" <monmuk111>

> > <vedic astrology>

> > Thursday, June 24, 2004 9:31 AM

> > [vedic astrology] Re: Fwd: >Venkatarama--to Venkat and

Aman

> >

> >

> > Hello Aman:

> >

> > You have NICELY reflected the SAME sentiments I feel. I've done

is in

> > an abrasive way.

> >

> > The issues are:

> >

> > 1) Who can be a Guru?

> > 2) And, can someone who IS NOT living a Brahminical life of

living on

> > donations and of not profiteering from Vedic knowledge become a

Guru?

> > 3) In India, practicing Brahmins live an extremely Brahminic

> > lifestyle ever since they're kids, i.e. began learning rituals

from

> > their father and grandfather in childhood, then go to Benaras and

> > study Vedas and Vedic rituals for many, many years AND FINALLY

become

> > a PUNDIT/GURU/BRAHMIN who performs various rituals, rites

including

> > giving out mantras. Now, can a person who hasn't BEEN thorough

this

> > process become a GURU and give out Mantras?

> >

> > Venkat has made a nice attempt to answer these, but is sitting on

the

> > fence on some important issue of whether someone who isn't born a

> > Brahmin and doesn't live a Brahminic lifestyle become a Guru and

> > perform rites, rituals and give out Mantras.

> >

> > Let's see what other members have to say. I'm hoping I'm not

BOOTED

> > from this group for asking such questions.

> >

> > Mukund

> >

> > vedic astrology, Venkatarama Sastry

> > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote:

> > > --- Aman sood <amansr99@r...> wrote:

> > > > 23 Jun 2004 18:57:57 -0000

> > > > "Aman sood" <amansr99@r...>

> > > > "venkatarama_sastry"

> > > > <venkatarama_sastry>

> > > > >Venkatarama

> > > >

> > > > RESPECTED Venkatarama.

> > > > THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BRAHMA and

> > > > BRAHMAN.A TRUE MASTER LIKE SRI RAMAKRISHNA has

> > > > REALIZED the HIGHEST ABSOLUTE BRAHMAN.Upanishads

> > > > state clearly that BRAHMAN is the real nature or the

> > > > reality behind this COSMIC PROJECTION of names and

> > > > forms. UPNISHADS FURTHER STATE THAT ALL THE WORLD OF

> > > > NAMES AND FORMS IS INDWELT BY THE LORD( OR BRAHMAN

> > > > ).It is only in India that we have had great souls

> > > > sacrificing their life to attain the supreme state

> > > > of NIRVILKIPA SAMADHI or BRAHMAN JNANA.It is INDIA

> > > > EVEN TODAY IN KALI YUGA that people lead austere

> > > > lives of immense devotion and purity.Having lived in

> > > > WEST in EUROPE and USA I am convinced that these

> > > > lands are BHOG BHUMIS not YOG BHUMIS . I am

> > > > convinced that MAJORITY of the WHITE RACE IS NOT

> > > > SUITED FOR SPIRITUAL PRACTICES THEY JUST DONT HAVE

> > > > THE SAMASKARAS. MANY OF THESE WHITE FELLOWS DONT

> > > > EVEN KNOW WHO THEIR FATHER IS.ThE WESTERN COUNTRIES

> > > > ARE SUITED FOR GROSS ANIMAL MATERILISTIC LIFE.. IN

> > > > INDIA THERE IS CORRUPTION LUST GRRED but GO to

> > > > RISHIKESH or UUTARKASHI and sit near the GANGES and

> > > > WORSHIP LORD SIVA see the BLISS YOU GET. YOU can go

> > > > to ROCKY mountaIns, ALPS or LAKE MICHIGAN sit near

> > > > it and MEDITATE and see what you get.THE PROOF OF

> > > > PUDDING IS IN EATING.INDIA IS A GREAT SPIRITUAL LAND

> > > > BUT SINCE IT IS KALI YUGA AND IN THIS YUGA EVIL

> > > > SHINES AND RULES HENCE IT IS USA AND WESTERN EUROPE

> > > > WITH THEIR CASH RICH ECONOMIES BUT BANKCRUPT SOULS

> > > > THAT ARE SHINING IN TODAY"S AGE

> > > > OM.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 venkatarama_sastry wrote :

> > > > >Yep, Mukund, your personal opinion that only a

> > > > Hindu by birth, and

> > > > >that too a Brahmin by birth can be a guru, is going

> > > > to be shot

> > > > >down :-) Allow me ...

> > > > >

> > > > >What exactly is a Brahmin? In telugu, we say

> > > > "Brahma Gyana

> > > > >sampannudu Brahmanudu", meaning that one that has

> > > > the treasure of

> > > > >Brahma Gyana is a Brahmin.

> > > > >

> > > > >Plus, what do we mean by "foreigners", anyway?

> > > > Non-Indians? Well,

> > > > >India today is very different from the India of the

> > > > Vedic times ...

> > > > >it encompassed what is now Afghanistan, Pakistan,

> > > > Bangladesh, Burma

> > > > >etc. And it seems rather uncertain as to how far

> > > > South it extended,

> > > > >which means that your Maharastra may not have even

> > > > been part of it,

> > > > >and probably not my Andhra either.. :-)

> > > > >

> > > > >A true Guru, in my opinion, is one that leads his

> > > > pupils to God. I

> > > > >remember a story of Swami Vivekananda, who went

> > > > from godman to

> > > > >godman, asking them the same question, can you show

> > > > me God? Only

> > > > >Ramakrishna Paramahamsa answered that with a simple

> > > > "Yes", and hence

> > > > >he was his disciple for life.

> > > > >

> > > > >I have my questions about whether mantras need to

> > > > be taught by a

> > > > >Guru or not, but the point there was that the Guru

> > > > not only teaches

> > > > >the actual mantra, its pronunciation etc. but also

> > > > transfers some of

> > > > >His/Her own spiritual power to you in the process.

> > > > It is this power

> > > > >that makes the difference.

> > > > >

> > > > >Now, if you are talking about a Siksha Guru, rather

> > > > than a Deeksha

> > > > >Guru, then, yes, you are right ... if you are just

> > > > trying to learn

> > > > >to pronounce a mantra, you obviously go to an

> > > > expert on Mantras, not

> > > > >a guy that can barely pronounce them himself, and

> > > > if you are trying

> > > > >to learn astrology, you go to an expert astrologer

> > > > etc. These are

> > > > >all just various vidyas, various subjects, so to

> > > > speak, and you go

> > > > >to the PhD equivalent to learn it in depth.

> > > > >

> > > > >Actually I do agree with you that a Guru has to be

> > > > born, not made,

> > > > >but not in the way you mean it. A Guru has to be

> > > > born with the

> > > > >sattwik qualities necessary, and the desire to help

> > > > others etc.

> > > > >

> > > > >OK, now you can shoot my opinion down if you'd like

> > > > :-). No offence

> > > > >intended!

> > > > >

> > > > >Venkatarama

> > > > >

> > > > >vedic astrology, "monmuk111"

> > > > <monmuk111>

> > > > >wrote:

> > > > > > Hello nameisego:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why should the initiation be done by a Guru when

> > > > the Bagalmukhi

> > > > >and

> > > > > > other Shakti mantras are available easily on the

> > > > internet and in a

> > > > > > variety of books.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now, here is my followup question to the above?

> > > > WHO IS A GURU?

> > > > >There

> > > > > > are lots of foreigners out there claiming to be

> > > > Gurus who can

> > > > >hardly

> > > > > > pronounce "Om" and and the aarti (devotional

> > > > songs) they sing

> > > > >sound

> > > > > > ridiculous and I find these offensive as a

> > > > Hindu. -- And all of

> > > > >these

> > > > > > foreigners claim tobe some sort of a Guru.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And, how can these Gurus prescibe a mantra,

> > > > Shanskrit mantras or

> > > > > > otherwise, when they don't know Sanskrit OR

> > > > Marathi and Telugu the

> > > > > > other two languages closest to Sanskrit?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now, some people may write back saying it is not

> > > > a matter of

> > > > > > pronounciation, but a matter of FAITH so any

> > > > ridiculous sounds

> > > > >these

> > > > > > foreigners make out of their mouths are OK.. On

> > > > the other hand,

> > > > > > fellows like Narasimha and my family Brahmin and

> > > > lots of other

> > > > > > Brahmins (especially from Maharastra, Gujarat,

> > > > Tamil Nadu,

> > > > >Varanashi,

> > > > > > Banaras and Nasik) INSIST that the

> > > > prononciations should be

> > > > >ACCURATE.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In the old days Gurus used to be divine. AND, in

> > > > today's India

> > > > >Gurus

> > > > > > (not the fake one running around in Jumbo-Jets

> > > > and Roll-Royces),

> > > > >but

> > > > > > the real Brahmins began studying Hindu rituals

> > > > and mantra-shastra

> > > > > > since they are KIDS. My family Brahmin (who is

> > > > an older

> > > > >Maharastrian

> > > > > > guy) knows mantras for ALL occassions at the tip

> > > > of his tounge.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -- He also knows and uses Varga charts

> > > > (constructed by hand), also

> > > > > > knows MOOL DASA (which isn't some deep family

> > > > secret as claimed by

> > > > > > Sanjay--in fact, MOOL DASA is known by many

> > > > Maharastrian Brahmins

> > > > > > I've met and may even be known in other parts of

> > > > India I haven't

> > > > > > visited), and knows many more things about

> > > > Mantra-shastra and

> > > > >Vedic

> > > > > > astrology that most of the Branded Gurus on this

> > > > board don't know

> > > > > > about. AND YET, he doesn't claim to be a Guru..

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So tell us nameisego, What makes a Guru? Some

> > > > guy on this board

> > > > >who

> > > > > > could hardly pronounce "Om" and hardly knows

> > > > ANYTHING on the tip

> > > > >of

> > > > > > his tounge, let alone knowing the meaning of the

> > > > Mantras OR a REAL

> > > > > > Hindu Brahmin who has devoted his life (since

> > > > childhood) in

> > > > >learning

> > > > > > the Vedas, the Shastras, the Mantra and the

> > > > Hora-Shastra?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So tell us one more thing nameisego, Where does

> > > > one find a Guru?--

> > > > >a

> > > > > > real one, not a web-Guru.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My personal opinion (for which I'll soon be shot

> > > > down) is that a

> > > > >Guru

> > > > > > has to be a Hindu and a Hindu is BORN not MADE.

> > > > A Guru has to be a

> > > > > > Brahmin PRACTISING the Brahminic way of living,

> > > > i.e. follow a

> > > > >strict

> > > > > > ritual on not EVER touching non-vegetarian food,

> > > > not EVER

> > > > >indulging

> > > > > > in other vices, follow a strict daily ritual of

> > > > Poojas, follows a

> > > > > > ritual of keeping and feeding cows, AND most

> > > > importantly follow a

> > > > > > strict ritual of LIVING OFF donations AND NEVER

> > > > EVER PROFIT from

> > > > >his

> > > > > > Brahminic knowledge. -- My family Brahmin and

> > > > most REAL GURUS in

> > > > > > India walk from home to home in the morning and

> > > > collect grains,

> > > > > > flour, fruits and minor donations and live off

> > > > these donations.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To conclude, A GURU is born, NOT MADE. And, one

> > > > would ONLY find

> > > > >such

> > > > > > a Guru in India living a poor, simple and

> > > > Brahminic way of life.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Respectfully,

> > > > > > Mukund

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology,

> > > > "nameisego"

> > > > ><nameisego>

> > > > > > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hello Friend,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Initiation into Aaradhana of Bagalamukhi or

> > > > any other Shakti

> > > > >must

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > done by a Guru.Casual approach to powerful

> > > > pooja vidhans are

> > > > > > > dangerous.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Tatvam-Asi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > vedic astrology,

> > > > "france12in"

> > > > > > > <reghudevaraj@h...> wrote:

> > > > > > > > Dear all,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'm a new member and would like to know if

> > > > some one can help

> > > > >me

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > finding the strotra or any other mantra of

> > > > Maa bagalamukhi.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Warm regards

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Reghu

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >------------------------ Sponsor

> > > > >

> > > > >Archives:

> > > > vedic astrology

> > > > >

> > > > >Group info:

> > > >

> > > vedic astrology/info.html

> > > > >

> > > > >To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to

> > > > vedic astrology-

> > > > >

> > > > >....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > >

> > > > >|| Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

> > > > Krishnaarpanamastu ||

> > > > > Links

> > > > >

> > > > vedic astrology/

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

 

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> >

> > Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Mukund

My thoughts below:

> My intent wasn't malicious. My intent was to

> understand how can

> people flying first class, riding rolls-royce and

> living in palatial

> homes claim to be Gurus?

 

Here again you are judging a person by the

sorroundings.. ie the Maya or illusion associated with

it. Think of deva Guru Vasishta or Vishvamitra or

asura Guru Shukracharys who is a signifactor for

Luxuries...

 

The definition of a Guru should be " A person who

knows more than you and a person whom you can look for

guidance", rather than analysing his origin or

environment.

There is a saying which says do not try to interpret

Nadhi Moolam OR Rishi Moolam ie dont try to analyse

the origins of a River Or a Saint.

 

Wherever the river originates, it finaly merges in to

ocean. Similarly who ever is born in whatever caste or

relegion he merges with paramatma the super soul the

Lord who is the REAL GURU.

 

In fact, Drona fought on

> the side of

> Kauravas during the Mahabharat war because he was

> living off donation

> from King Duryodhan.

 

This is not true.. As an acharya he tried to advise

Duryodhan not to fight. But he and others like

Kripacharya, Bhishma had to side with Duryodhan for

the only reason of fighting for the Karma Bhoomi and

also as desired by the lord that no matter what if you

side with asathya you will not succeede.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Take Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.

http://mobile./maildemo