Kalchakra navamsa

[Guest guest]

Dear Srivastava,

You have obviously studied Kalachakra dasha in depth. I am certain, no

one would feel you are intruding. It is Mr. Dhananjayan Brahma who had

said that his Village Purohit had said that it is difficult to

understand Kalachakra Dashas. I had replied that BPHS gives their order

and perhaps the Village Purohit is referring to Dashas related to

Kalachakra tantra. Unfortunately that time, perhaps Mr. Dhananjayan

thought I was trying to rationalize the statement of his Village

Purohit. That was never my intention and I was dead serious about what

I said.

There is much that is not understood in the Kalachakra Dasha as given

in Astrological texts. The primary being, why in certain Nakshatra

Padas, the dasha progresses in linear order and why in some it jumps

back and forth ? Unless this is understood, I feel it is difficult to

understand the logic and principles behind application of Kalachakra

Dasha. I am certain that to understand this one will have to understand

the movement of Kala through the Kalachakra itself. I am of the opinion

that till such time, we can safely stay with Parashara and other

standard texts about the way Antardashas are drawn, remaining within

the Basic Mahadasha order. Jatakadesh Marg does suggest beginning with

trine sign if Antardasha of a Chara Rasi is to be drawn and of the Rasi

itself for other Rasis, but even there there is no suggestion of change

of Mahadasha order while drawing Antardasha.

Chandrashekhar.

R.C.Srivastava wrote:

Dear sirs .

I do not

consider my self well conversant with KCD but have read all published

material by Sarva Sri PVR ji ( His web site and Integrated astrology),

Chugh, ( Yogni and Kalchakra dasa)K.N.Rao series of article in Times of

astrology and various other article by surendran and others in

Astrological magazine) ,Dr Raman Book on KCD,

KCD book in hindi by Deewan Ram chandra Kapoor

and writings by Late SRI R. Santhanam in TOA

with large number of exercise. I am compiling current discussion but am

finding hard to swallow some parts of it .I myself am yet to reach a

decision and as learner only and want to learn more about it.

But specially

why KCD navamsa as known and applicable to available speculam and mathematical

formule both be treated unreliable

when large number of prediction are falling true in experience of those

who have tried KCD.

The Views of

Sri Ramnarayanan and Sri Chandrashekhar are consistent & worth

perusal, in light of available exposition summarized below. Is it

necessary that hypothetically certain supposition should be valid?

I hope you

would not mind if i quote that Mr Chugh had explained specially about

KCD Navamsa. And also followed by Sri Santhanam. in toto. However the

formula given by Mr Chugh does not answer all cases but his tables are

same as that by Sri Santhanam. For the moment

I am quoting Mr Chugs opinion and its expansion by Sri Santhanam. After

it let us consider what sri chandrashekar says is correct as per

diffrent commentaries accessible .

It is hoped my entry to discussion may not be treated as

intrusion, If it is so please ignore this mail.

Now the

discussion is about KCD Navamsa.

The navamsa

position of moon or other planet as per the

Kalchakra Dasa is the same for Savya group of Nakshatra. It is only the

Apsayva group of Nakshatra they are different.

A.

Table for

determining KCD Navamsa For Apsavya group.

Navmas Quarter of Apsavya Nakshtra

Scorpio First Rohni,Makha,Vishaka,

Shravana

Libra Second do

Virgo Third Do

Leo Fourth

Do

Cancer First Mrigasira,P

Phalguni,Anuradha Dhanishta

Gemini Second Do

Taurus Third Do

Aries Fourth Do

Pisces First Arudha, U.Phalg

Jyestha Satbhisa

Aquarius Second Do

Capricon Third Do

Sagitt Fourth Do

In example

under discussion P Phalguni First pada is clearly in Cancer Navams as

per table given above.

If I

reproduce tables as given by Mr Chugh the order of KCD Navamsa is

totally logical and symmetrical.

 

Extracts from Table 5.4 are given below.

Nak

First

Second

Third

Fourth

1,7,13,19,25

Aries

Taurus

Gemini

Cancer

2,8,14,20,26

Leo

Virgo

Libra

Scorpio

3,9,15,21,27

Sagg

Capri

Aqua

Pisc

4,10,16,22

Scorpio*

Libra

Virgo

Leo

5,11,17,23

Cancer

Gemini

Taurus

Aries

6,12,18,24

Pisc

Aqua

Capri

Saggi

 

To

my memory as I studied KCD many years ago, Deewan Ramchandra Kapoor and

Mr chugh has given formula for determining KCD navamsa. Unfortunately I

could not understand it’s second part. Both authors appears confused to

me or may be I am lacking in correct application. Knowing KCD Navamsa

is very important.

It is

commonly believed that Mahadasa results can not be given without it as

same rasi dasa gives different result which is related with KCD Navamsa

Position. Dr Raman and Sri Chugh has given likely

results in enough detail. BPH has many slokas

about the results of planet placement in KCD Navamsa.

B Other

issues.

Logic

mentioned is “unexpired portion of Dasa is followed by the expired

portion of dasa.”The entire dasa is like a circle. May it be direct

like in Yogni, may it be Reverse motion or

Jumping. This is logical in case of Drig, mandooka and chara dasa

too.So balance at birth is to be worked out. Many follow this.

Logic of

Mirror image is wonderful as taught by Sh. Narasimha ji but why

confusion in SUB PERIOD orders and duration.May be this requires

research.

For duration

OF sub period Sri Narsimha explains beautifully the underlying

principal and Mr Chugh has given Ready made tables to calculate easily.

Mr Chugh and Dr Raman hinted the results of Sub period also . Dr Raman

has given extensive results based on some manuscript. But how sub

period runs and start and order wants needs confirmation by research

minded people. Deewan has avoided discussion on sub period itself The

discussion was started on quote by some expert traditional village

astrologer. It will be real good fortune if that Gentleman share and

add some insight to known application method to reach KCD

acceptibality. More on KCD Navamsa IN next mail if intrusion in

discussion is not disturbing. I will be happy if experts give opinion

about order of SUBPERIOD based on their experience.

Hari Om

Tatsat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk>

Re: Kalachakra Navamsa Chart Discrepancy

Dear Narasimha,

I think what Ramanarayanan is saying is correct. The 1st pada of Purva Phalguni

does fall in Karka in Kalachakra scheme of

things, and will be designated as falling in

Karka Navamsha. The sign lord therefore becomes the Deha. Shloka 94 and

95 ch. 48 this is unambiguously stated by

Parashara.

Chandrashekhar.

Narasimha P.V.R. Rao wrote:

Dear Sri Ramanarayanan, Nakshatra positions of planets & ascendant:-

Lagna:-uttarashada 4 Sun:- Punarvasu 4 Moon:- Dhanishta 4

Mars:- Chitra 3 Buda Aridra 2 Guru:- Visaka 1

Sukra:-Purvaphalguni 1 Sani®:-Satayam 4 Rahu:-Uttarashada 1 Ketu:-

Punarvasu 3 Mandi:-Rohini 4 Gulika:- Mrigasira 3 HL:- Makha 2 GL:-

Revati 3 Kalachakra - the navamsa diagram/chart:-(refer previous mail)

Lagna:-

Meena Sun:-Kataka Moon:- Mesha Mars:-Tula Buda:-Kumbha Guru:-Vrischika

Sukra:-kataka Sani:-Dhanur Rahu:-Dhanur Ketu:-Mithuna Mandi:-Simha

Gulika:-Vrishaba HL:-Tula GL:-Kumba AL:-Kataka A6:-Mithuna

I was

reading the Kalachakra dasa exchanges leisurely over this long weekend. I

noticed that we two have a small

disagreement in the definition of Kalachakra navamsa.

In the Kalachakra navamsa chart I know, Venus in Poorva Phalguni 1st pada is

in Leo itself and not in Cancer as you

wrote. When Parasara defined navamsa chakra, he did not give the navamsa signs.

He only gave the navamsa lords!! For

example, the rulers of the nine navamsas (nine

nakshatra padas) in Leo are Mars, Venus, Mercury,

Moon, Sun, Mercury, Venus, Mars and Jupiter.

In the normal navamsa chart, we take the nine

navamsas in Leo to be Ar, Ta, Ge, Cn, Le, Vi, Li,

Sc and Sg. In Kalachakra navamsa, we take these nine navamsas to be Sc, Li, Vi,

Cn, Le, Ge, Ta, Ar and Pi (because

Magha, Poorva Phalguni and Uttara Phalguni are

apasavya nakshatras). Both the ways,

Parasara's basic definition of navamsa holds

true. In other words, the non-cyclical Kalachakra navamsa chart is a

variation of navamsa that, in my humble

opinion, was coverered by Parasara's basic navamsa

definition!!!

If you correlate Parasara's basic definition

of navamsa and his definition of Kalachakra

dasa signs, you will realize that they fit with

each other. Kalachakra dasa is based on Kalachakra navamsa chart, which is a

non-cyclical variation of navamsa based

on the same basic navamsa definition of

Parasara. However, you cannot take Poorva

Phalguni 1st pada in Cancer navamsa. It MUST be Leo. Otherwise, you are

breaking Parasara's basic definition of

navamsa. The 5th navamsa (nakshatra pada) of Leo MUST be owned by Sun

and not Moon, according to Parasara. So Poorva

Phalguni 1st pada MUST be in Leo in both normal

navamsa chart and Kalachakra navamsa chart. There is no other way. If you do

not accept this, the whole basis of

mandooki and markati gati disappears. Please

reconsider your view. BTW, I get all other planets in the same signs as

you gave in Kalachakra Navamsa. We differ only on Venus.

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Chandrashakhar ji,

 

> There is much that is not understood in the Kalachakra Dasha as given in >

Astrological texts. The primary being, why in certain Nakshatra Padas, > the

dasha progresses in linear order and why in some it jumps back and > forth ?

Unless this is understood, I feel it is difficult to understand > the logic and

principles behind application of Kalachakra Dasha.

 

This is what I have been saying all along. As long as you treat the dasa cycle

tables as some magic, you have not understood Kalachakra dasa and you can make

a mistake or two. The key is to understand the logic behind the tables.

 

I tried to address this in some of my previous mails.

 

The dasa cycle of Aswini 1st pada (i.e. Aries amsa) is Ar, Ta, Ge, Cn, Le, Vi,

Li, Sc and Sg, because there are the kalachakra navamsas (or just navamsas) of

the nine nakshatra padas in Aries (Aswini 1, 2, 3, 4, Bharani 1, 2, 3, 4,

Krittika 1).

 

The dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada (i.e. Taurus amsa) is Cp, Aq, Pi, Sc, Li, Vi,

Cn, Le and Ge, because these are the kalachakra navamsas of the nine nakshatra

padas in Taurus (Krittika 2, 3, 4, Rohini 1, 2, 3, 4, Mrigasira 1, 2). The

first 3 signs in the dasa cycle go zodiacally, because they are padas of

Krittika (a savya nakshatra). The anti-zodiacal progression starts from Rohini

1st pada, because Rohini is an apasavya nakshatra. Aswini, Bharani and Krittika

are savya nakshatras. Rohini, Mrigasira and Ardra are apasavya nakshatras.

 

Kalachakra navamsa is a variation of navamsa. When defining navamsa, Parasara

only said that the lords of the 9 equal parts of Aries are Mars, Venus,

Mercury, Moon, Sun, Mercury, Venus, Mars and Jupiter; the lords of the 9 equal

parts of Taurus are Saturn, Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Venus, Mercury, Moon, Sun

and Mercury, etc. He did not specify the signs. The signs we normally take

result in a cyclical navamsa. Kalachakra navamsa is composed of two cycles -

one zodiacal for savya nakshatra padas and the other anti-zodiacal for apasavya

nakshatra padas. This kalachakra navamsa also fits the basic navamsa definition

given by Parasara. So I consider that it is very much granted by Parasara.

 

Kalachakra dasa is based on these kalachakra navamsas.

 

So Pi in the dasa cycle of Aswini 2nd pada is clearly Krittika 4th pada and Sc

coming after it in the dasa cycle is clearly Rohini 1st pada.

 

If you extend this approach to the entire Kalachakra dasa table, you will see

that there is a clear structure and it is nor arbitrary. You will also realize

that mahadas themselves correspond to various nakshatra padas.

 

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha