Guest guest Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Dear Pradeep, Perhaps the key would be to understand why two different Sutras are used by the Sage for effects of Atmakaraka in specific Navamsha signs( which by virtue of its occupation becomes Karakamsha). In the first instance he gives results of Atmakaraka irrespective of the planet. Now when he says when Surya joins Karakamsha, to me it would appear that planet other than Surya would have to be AK, thereby defining Karakamsha that Surya is supposed to occupy. Surya joining Atmakaraka who is defined as King by the Sage, and being King himself could give one connection with political activities. The extent would depend on the placement and strength of the Planets. Chandrashekhar. vijayadas_pradeep wrote: Dear respected members I have read some jaimini sutras w.r to karakamsha - One sutra says Sun in karakamsha will relate one to ploitics.Does this mean all the individuals with sun as AK(of course with other strengths) , will be related to politics?I don't think so.If that was the case, then the munis with such knowledge using a language like sanskrit, known for brevity ,will not try to confuse us.They will simply say all individuals with Sun as AK will be related to politics,instead of saying Sun in Karakamsha(as both refers to the same as per this understanding).Thus it makes me think that karakamsha is to identify the basic tattwa in which AK is closely related.The sign with this tattwa in Rashi becomes the Karakamsha Lagna and all aspects ,argala,arudha etc can be applied then from Karakamsha.When the full environment(Rashi) and the amsha (where AK(Soul) is placed) are similar, the indications of the planet will fructify without obstructions.For example sun is the king and when he is subjected to above conditions - one will be related to politics.I was also worried after seeing aspects mentioned in jaimini sutras w.r to karakamsha - Once i thought of transforming these to Rashi - My concerns were gone.Giving due respect to Sanjayji's teachings and the learning i have gained from him (directly & indirectly) , i tend to think differently regarding Karakamsha analysis. Kindly give a thought. Regds Pradeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Dear Pradeep, Perhaps the key would be to understand why two different Sutras are used by the Sage for effects of Atmakaraka in specific Navamsha signs( which by virtue of its occupation becomes Karakamsha). In the first instance he gives results of Atmakaraka irrespective of the planet. Now when he says when Surya joins Karakamsha, to me it would appear that planet other than Surya would have to be AK, thereby defining Karakamsha that Surya is supposed to occupy. Surya joining Atmakaraka who is defined as King by the Sage, and being King himself could give one connection with political activities. The extent would depend on the placement and strength of the Planets. Chandrashekhar. vijayadas_pradeep wrote: Dear respected members I have read some jaimini sutras w.r to karakamsha - One sutra says Sun in karakamsha will relate one to ploitics.Does this mean all the individuals with sun as AK(of course with other strengths) , will be related to politics?I don't think so.If that was the case, then the munis with such knowledge using a language like sanskrit, known for brevity ,will not try to confuse us.They will simply say all individuals with Sun as AK will be related to politics,instead of saying Sun in Karakamsha(as both refers to the same as per this understanding).Thus it makes me think that karakamsha is to identify the basic tattwa in which AK is closely related.The sign with this tattwa in Rashi becomes the Karakamsha Lagna and all aspects ,argala,arudha etc can be applied then from Karakamsha.When the full environment(Rashi) and the amsha (where AK(Soul) is placed) are similar, the indications of the planet will fructify without obstructions.For example sun is the king and when he is subjected to above conditions - one will be related to politics.I was also worried after seeing aspects mentioned in jaimini sutras w.r to karakamsha - Once i thought of transforming these to Rashi - My concerns were gone.Giving due respect to Sanjayji's teachings and the learning i have gained from him (directly & indirectly) , i tend to think differently regarding Karakamsha analysis. Kindly give a thought. Regds Pradeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Dear Chandrashekhar ji Thanks for the reply. My only concern is ,if a person has sun as atmakaraka - then he is loosing the benefit of this sutra.Similar is the case with other atmakarakas,if they can give such results only by conjunction. Why cannot the king give on its own - while it is able to give even by conjunction. But if i am right -then as well, it is not logical to think that all with AK as sun will be related to politics.Thus my leaning towards position in rashi. As i have no good knowledge in sanskrit - i may ask about the exact translation of the sutra. Respect Pradeep vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Pradeep, > Perhaps the key would be to understand why two different Sutras are used > by the Sage for effects of Atmakaraka in specific Navamsha signs( which > by virtue of its occupation becomes Karakamsha). In the first instance > he gives results of Atmakaraka irrespective of the planet. Now when he > says when Surya joins Karakamsha, to me it would appear that planet > other than Surya would have to be AK, thereby defining Karakamsha that > Surya is supposed to occupy. Surya joining Atmakaraka who is defined as > King by the Sage, and being King himself could give one connection with > political activities. The extent would depend on the placement and > strength of the Planets. > Chandrashekhar. > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > Dear respected members > > > > I have read some jaimini sutras w.r to karakamsha - One sutra says > > Sun in karakamsha will relate one to ploitics.Does this mean all the > > individuals with sun as AK(of course with other strengths) , will be > > related to politics?I don't think so.If that was the case, then the > > munis with such knowledge using a language like sanskrit, known for > > brevity ,will not try to confuse us.They will simply say all > > individuals with Sun as AK will be related to politics,instead of > > saying Sun in Karakamsha(as both refers to the same as per this > > understanding).Thus it makes me think that karakamsha is to identify > > the basic tattwa in which AK is closely related.The sign with this > > tattwa in Rashi becomes the Karakamsha Lagna and all > > aspects ,argala,arudha etc can be applied then from Karakamsha.When > > the full environment(Rashi) and the amsha (where AK(Soul) is placed) > > are similar, the indications of the planet will fructify without > > obstructions.For example sun is the king and when he is subjected to > > above conditions - one will be related to politics.I was also worried > > after seeing aspects mentioned in jaimini sutras w.r to karakamsha - > > Once i thought of transforming these to Rashi - My concerns were > > gone.Giving due respect to Sanjayji's teachings and the learning i > > have gained from him (directly & indirectly) , i tend to think > > differently regarding Karakamsha analysis. > > > > Kindly give a thought. > > > > Regds > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > * Sponsor* > > > > click here > > <http://us.ard./SIG=1298n3pj8/M=295196.4901138.6071305.30011 76/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1093348549/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf 6/*http://companion.> > > > > > > > > -------------------------------- ------- > > * Links* > > > > * > > vedic astrology/ > > > > * > > vedic astrology > > <vedic astrology? subject=Un> > > > > * Terms of > > Service <>. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Dear Sanjay Ji Thanks for your time and reply. As per your explanation, my understanding gets reinforcement in the following way. Amsha of Lagna in navamsha - Shows the close environment related to physical body (lagna) or resources.Amsha of Atma karaka in the navamsha – Shows the close environment related to Atmakaraka or desire of the soul. When these environments are identical, the goal is achieved with ease. It makes me understand your point. Moreover from your article, I have read that when navamsha lagna lord conjoins atmakaraka the individual definitely becomes a king. I understand the additional strength/support received by atmakaraka, from lagna navamsha, in fulfilling its desire. But does it necessarily be a King? It can be the fulfillment of any desire of the Atmakaraka.If the Atmakaraka is Sun –then your point sounds logical. Kindly explain. Now all these points until now were related to the finer environments. Now if we consider the broader environment or material plane - Rashi, how will the effects be? If the Rashi environment is adverse, the individual may still achieve his goal (because of navamsha support) but with difficulties. But if the Rashi is also supportive the job becomes much easier. I think this is the principle behind Vargottama.Whatever amsha we get from navamsha is represented broadly (tattwa) in Rashi.Thus for measuring material results, will not, transfer of this Karakamsha to Rashi, lend a help for analyzing further? This is only my doubt. I have difficulties in perceiving aspects in navamsha or similar higher vargas and hence my leaning towards rashi.Kindly correct me. Respect Pradeep vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" <guruji@s...> wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > Dear Pradeep > Brilliant question and point indeed. > The atmakaraka and its trines indicate the aspirations of the soul,which is > really its failing. It also indicates its stage of spiritual development. > Thus while the Sun in trines to the karakamsa or as the atmakaraka shall > give an internal desire to dominate, to lead and this can cause a desire to > be in politics or any leadership role in any field, this may not happen if > there is no such link from the navamsa lagna or with the navamsa lagna. If > there is a link between the two then not only are the abilities and > resources available but also the strong urge of the atma force is also there > to back the propulsion towards the goal. This is the subtle difference > between the karakamsa and the navamsa lagna. > With Kind regards, > Sanjay Rath > webpages: http://srath.com & http://.org > > > vijayadas_pradeep [vijayadas_pradeep] > Tuesday, August 24, 2004 1:06 PM > vedic astrology > [vedic astrology] Re: Doubt regarding Karakamsha > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > Thanks for the reply. > My only concern is ,if a person has sun as atmakaraka - then he is loosing > the benefit of this sutra.Similar is the case with other atmakarakas,if they > can give such results only by conjunction. > Why cannot the king give on its own - while it is able to give even by > conjunction. > But if i am right -then as well, it is not logical to think that all with AK > as sun will be related to politics.Thus my leaning towards position in > rashi. > > As i have no good knowledge in sanskrit - i may ask about the exact > translation of the sutra. > > Respect > Pradeep > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar <boxdel> > wrote: > > Dear Pradeep, > > Perhaps the key would be to understand why two different Sutras > are used > > by the Sage for effects of Atmakaraka in specific Navamsha signs( > which > > by virtue of its occupation becomes Karakamsha). In the first > instance > > he gives results of Atmakaraka irrespective of the planet. Now > when he > > says when Surya joins Karakamsha, to me it would appear that > planet > > other than Surya would have to be AK, thereby defining Karakamsha > that > > Surya is supposed to occupy. Surya joining Atmakaraka who is > defined as > > King by the Sage, and being King himself could give one connection > with > > political activities. The extent would depend on the placement and > > strength of the Planets. > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > Dear respected members > > > > > > I have read some jaimini sutras w.r to karakamsha - One sutra > says > > > Sun in karakamsha will relate one to ploitics.Does this mean all > the > > > individuals with sun as AK(of course with other strengths) , > will be > > > related to politics?I don't think so.If that was the case, then > the > > > munis with such knowledge using a language like sanskrit, known > for > > > brevity ,will not try to confuse us.They will simply say all > > > individuals with Sun as AK will be related to politics,instead of > > > saying Sun in Karakamsha(as both refers to the same as per this > > > understanding).Thus it makes me think that karakamsha is to > identify > > > the basic tattwa in which AK is closely related.The sign with > this > > > tattwa in Rashi becomes the Karakamsha Lagna and all aspects > > > ,argala,arudha etc can be applied then from > Karakamsha.When > > > the full environment(Rashi) and the amsha (where AK(Soul) is > placed) > > > are similar, the indications of the planet will fructify without > > > obstructions.For example sun is the king and when he is > subjected to > > > above conditions - one will be related to politics.I was also > worried > > > after seeing aspects mentioned in jaimini sutras w.r to > karakamsha - > > > Once i thought of transforming these to Rashi - My concerns were > > > gone.Giving due respect to Sanjayji's teachings and the learning > i > > > have gained from him (directly & indirectly) , i tend to think > > > differently regarding Karakamsha analysis. > > > > > > Kindly give a thought. > > > > > > Regds > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Sponsor* > > > > > > click here > > > > <http://us.ard./SIG=1298n3pj8/M=295196.4901138.6071305.30011 > 76/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1093348549/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf > 6/*http://companion.> > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- - > ------- > > > * Links* > > > > > > * > > > vedic astrology/ > > > > > > * > > > vedic astrology > > > <vedic astrology? > subject=Un> > > > > > > * Terms of > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor -------------------- ~--> > $9.95 domain names from . Register anything. > http://us.click./J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/.8XolB/TM > -- ~-> > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > Links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Dear Sarath ji Thanks for your reply. I have explained my understanding in another mail to Sanjay ji.Kindly go through it. Regds Pradeep vedic astrology, "Sarath" <gsb1008@H...> wrote: > || Om Krishna Guru || > Dear Pradeep, > > Sorry to interfere. Going back to basics, if you see the defn of Karakamsa, it is the Rasi in which AK is placed in Navamsa. Here the defn doesn't say its Rasi+AK, its simply Rasi. So by default, AK is placed in the strongest trine wrt Karakaamsa Lagna and the rest follows.... > > Best Wishes, > Sarath. > > > - > vijayadas_pradeep > vedic astrology > Tuesday, August 24, 2004 1:05 PM > [vedic astrology] Re: Doubt regarding Karakamsha > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > Thanks for the reply. > My only concern is ,if a person has sun as atmakaraka - then he is > loosing the benefit of this sutra.Similar is the case with other > atmakarakas,if they can give such results only by conjunction. > Why cannot the king give on its own - while it is able to give even > by conjunction. > But if i am right -then as well, it is not logical to think that all > with AK as sun will be related to politics.Thus my leaning towards > position in rashi. > > As i have no good knowledge in sanskrit - i may ask about the exact > translation of the sutra. > > Respect > Pradeep > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar <boxdel> > wrote: > > Dear Pradeep, > > Perhaps the key would be to understand why two different Sutras > are used > > by the Sage for effects of Atmakaraka in specific Navamsha signs ( > which > > by virtue of its occupation becomes Karakamsha). In the first > instance > > he gives results of Atmakaraka irrespective of the planet. Now > when he > > says when Surya joins Karakamsha, to me it would appear that > planet > > other than Surya would have to be AK, thereby defining Karakamsha > that > > Surya is supposed to occupy. Surya joining Atmakaraka who is > defined as > > King by the Sage, and being King himself could give one connection > with > > political activities. The extent would depend on the placement and > > strength of the Planets. > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > Dear respected members > > > > > > I have read some jaimini sutras w.r to karakamsha - One sutra > says > > > Sun in karakamsha will relate one to ploitics.Does this mean all > the > > > individuals with sun as AK(of course with other strengths) , > will be > > > related to politics?I don't think so.If that was the case, then > the > > > munis with such knowledge using a language like sanskrit, known > for > > > brevity ,will not try to confuse us.They will simply say all > > > individuals with Sun as AK will be related to politics,instead of > > > saying Sun in Karakamsha(as both refers to the same as per this > > > understanding).Thus it makes me think that karakamsha is to > identify > > > the basic tattwa in which AK is closely related.The sign with > this > > > tattwa in Rashi becomes the Karakamsha Lagna and all > > > aspects ,argala,arudha etc can be applied then from > Karakamsha.When > > > the full environment(Rashi) and the amsha (where AK(Soul) is > placed) > > > are similar, the indications of the planet will fructify without > > > obstructions.For example sun is the king and when he is > subjected to > > > above conditions - one will be related to politics.I was also > worried > > > after seeing aspects mentioned in jaimini sutras w.r to > karakamsha - > > > Once i thought of transforming these to Rashi - My concerns were > > > gone.Giving due respect to Sanjayji's teachings and the learning > i > > > have gained from him (directly & indirectly) , i tend to think > > > differently regarding Karakamsha analysis. > > > > > > Kindly give a thought. > > > > > > Regds > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > astrology/info.html > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Sponsor* > > > > > > click here > > > > <http://us.ard./SIG=1298n3pj8/M=295196.4901138.6071305.30011 > 76/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1093348549/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf > 6/*http://companion.> > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------- --- > ------- > > > * Links* > > > > > > * > > > vedic astrology/ > > > > > > * > > > vedic astrology > > > <vedic astrology? > subject=Un> > > > > > > * Terms of > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > -- ---------- > Links > > > vedic astrology/ > > b.. > vedic astrology > > c.. Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 Dear Chandrashekhar ji Thanks for your reply. I understand from your mail that sutras have to be understood with continuity,content as well as structure wise. In this case after describing about results of AK in various navamshas,the sage is not mentioning about individual results of AK. I am seeing only published sutras(internet) ,thus i may be wrong. Regarding position of karakamsha i understand your point.But until now i have a feeling that house considerations are not needed in vargas(other than rashi). I think other vargas are analysed differently.Diety lordships,Tattawa (friendly,ucha/swa rashis as you have mentioned),lording quadrants from AL(w.r rashi),not posited in rashis whose lords are combust etc. As my knowledge is limited i may request you to guide to any classical reference regarding this.I have read some local language books,theraswell i can see only references about benefic navamshas etc.No Kendra,trikona references at all. They have given effects due to various drekkanas etc but again no house considerations. As the learned members have vast experience i appreciate your guidance. Respect Pradeep vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Pradeep, > It is not the literal meaning but the way Sutras are framed that needs > to be looked into. If the intention was to say that Surya as Atmakaraka > by himself would give the results, he would have said so. When reference > is to a planet joining Karakamsha, I would think that the meaning is > that Karakamsha is already defined by presence of Atmakaraka in a > particular Navamsha and the planet Sun has to join it. > Sutras are, anyway, difficult to interpret. That is why different > authorities have given different interpretation of their inner meaning. > I always try to find out whether the meaning fits in with the basic > principles of astrology, before arriving at any conclusion. For example, > Parashara tells to look at placement of planets in Navamsha and other > D-Charts to assess their Bala. Meaning their being in trines or > quadrants would make them strong, as would their being Uccha, in own > house or friend's house. > Look at it at this way, would Karakamsha being in 6th house give sames > strength to the AK than if it is in a Trine? I am certain it would not. > Similarly Sun being in say Aries or Leo would give it more strength than > being in say Libra or Virgo. The sages give us principles and ask Us to > use our sense of proportion to come near prediction. At least I think > that way. Those more learned than me might have a different view. > Hope this helps, > Chandrashekhar. > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > > > Thanks for the reply. > > My only concern is ,if a person has sun as atmakaraka - then he is > > loosing the benefit of this sutra.Similar is the case with other > > atmakarakas,if they can give such results only by conjunction. > > Why cannot the king give on its own - while it is able to give even > > by conjunction. > > But if i am right -then as well, it is not logical to think that all > > with AK as sun will be related to politics.Thus my leaning towards > > position in rashi. > > > > As i have no good knowledge in sanskrit - i may ask about the exact > > translation of the sutra. > > > > Respect > > Pradeep > > > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar <boxdel> > > wrote: > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > Perhaps the key would be to understand why two different Sutras > > are used > > > by the Sage for effects of Atmakaraka in specific Navamsha signs( > > which > > > by virtue of its occupation becomes Karakamsha). In the first > > instance > > > he gives results of Atmakaraka irrespective of the planet. Now > > when he > > > says when Surya joins Karakamsha, to me it would appear that > > planet > > > other than Surya would have to be AK, thereby defining Karakamsha > > that > > > Surya is supposed to occupy. Surya joining Atmakaraka who is > > defined as > > > King by the Sage, and being King himself could give one connection > > with > > > political activities. The extent would depend on the placement and > > > strength of the Planets. > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > Dear respected members > > > > > > > > I have read some jaimini sutras w.r to karakamsha - One sutra > > says > > > > Sun in karakamsha will relate one to ploitics.Does this mean all > > the > > > > individuals with sun as AK(of course with other strengths) , > > will be > > > > related to politics?I don't think so.If that was the case, then > > the > > > > munis with such knowledge using a language like sanskrit, known > > for > > > > brevity ,will not try to confuse us.They will simply say all > > > > individuals with Sun as AK will be related to politics,instead of > > > > saying Sun in Karakamsha(as both refers to the same as per this > > > > understanding).Thus it makes me think that karakamsha is to > > identify > > > > the basic tattwa in which AK is closely related.The sign with > > this > > > > tattwa in Rashi becomes the Karakamsha Lagna and all > > > > aspects ,argala,arudha etc can be applied then from > > Karakamsha.When > > > > the full environment(Rashi) and the amsha (where AK(Soul) is > > placed) > > > > are similar, the indications of the planet will fructify without > > > > obstructions.For example sun is the king and when he is > > subjected to > > > > above conditions - one will be related to politics.I was also > > worried > > > > after seeing aspects mentioned in jaimini sutras w.r to > > karakamsha - > > > > Once i thought of transforming these to Rashi - My concerns were > > > > gone.Giving due respect to Sanjayji's teachings and the learning > > i > > > > have gained from him (directly & indirectly) , i tend to think > > > > differently regarding Karakamsha analysis. > > > > > > > > Kindly give a thought. > > > > > > > > Regds > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Sponsor* > > > > > > > > click here > > > > > > <http://us.ard./SIG=1298n3pj8/M=295196.4901138.6071305.30011 > > 76/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1093348549/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf > > 6/*http://companion.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------- ---- > > ------- > > > > * Links* > > > > > > > > * > > > > vedic astrology/ > > > > > > > > * > > > > vedic astrology > > > > <vedic astrology? > > subject=Un> > > > > > > > > * Terms of > > > > Service <>. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > * Sponsor* > > > > click here > > <http://us.ard./SIG=129kdn1gq/M=298184.5285298.6392945.30011 76/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1093464365/A=2319501/R=0/SIG=11tq0u90 9/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185353&partid=5285298> > > > > > > > > -------------------------------- ------- > > * Links* > > > > * > > vedic astrology/ > > > > * > > vedic astrology > > <vedic astrology? subject=Un> > > > > * Terms of > > Service <>. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 ||| Hare Rama Krishna ||| Dear Pradeep, Here is a snapshot of MJUS (translation). Before this chapter, the Author describes the AtmaKaraka in different signs. Hope this helps. Nitin. || Namah Shivaaya || =================== ADHYAYA 1- PADA 2 SU. 14.-Tatra ravou rajakaryaparaha. If the Sun occupies the Karakamsa, the person will be fond of public service and will work in political activities. SU. 15. -Poornendusukrayorbhogee vidyajeevee cha. If Full Moon and Venus join Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, the person will command great wealth and all comforts attendant on wealth and he will also earn money and live by the profession of education. SU. 16.-Dhatuvadee kountayudho vahnijeevee cha bhoume. When Kuja joins Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, the person becomes great in the preparation of various medical mixtures, will bear arms like kuntayudha and other weapons, and live by profession involving preparations in or near fire. SU. 17.-yanijatantuvayaha silpino vyavaharavidascha soumye. If Budha conjoins the Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, the persons become merchants, weavers and manufacturers of clothes, artists and persons clever in preparing curios, and those well versed in the affairs of social and political matters. SU. 18.-Kairmagnunanishta vedavidascha jeevay. When Guru joins the Navamsa with Atmakaraka, the person will be well versed in Vedic or religious rituals, will have religious wisdom, well known in the rules of sacrificial functions and will have good knowledge in Vedanta and will be a religious man. . SU. 19.-Rajakeeyaha kaminaha satendriyascha sttkre. . If Sukra joins the Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, the person will become a great official or political personage, will be fond of many women and will retain vitality and sexual passions till he is hundred years old. SU. 20.--Prasiddhakarma jeevaha sanow. If Sani joins Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, he will produce a famous person in his own line of business. SU. 21.-Dhanushkaschouvrascha jangalikalohayantrinascha rahow. It Rahu joins the Atmakaraka in Navamsa the person will live by the skilful use of warlike instruments, he will earn bread as thief and dacoit; he becomes a doctor dealing in poisons, manufacturer of gold, silver, copper and other metallic machinery SU. 22.--Gajavyavaharinaschourrascha kethau. 'When Ketu joins the Atmakaraka in the Navamsa the persons born under such combination trade in elephants or become thieves and robbers. =================== Dear Chandrashekhar ji Thanks for your reply. I understand from your mail that sutras have to be understood with continuity,content as well as structure wise. In this case after describing about results of AK in various navamshas,the sage is not mentioning about individual results of AK. I am seeing only published sutras(internet) ,thus i may be wrong. Regarding position of karakamsha i understand your point.But until now i have a feeling that house considerations are not needed in vargas(other than rashi). I think other vargas are analysed differently.Diety lordships,Tattawa (friendly,ucha/swa rashis as you have mentioned),lording quadrants from AL(w.r rashi),not posited in rashis whose lords are combust etc. As my knowledge is limited i may request you to guide to any classical reference regarding this.I have read some local language books,theraswell i can see only references about benefic navamshas etc.No Kendra,trikona references at all. They have given effects due to various drekkanas etc but again no house considerations. As the learned members have vast experience i appreciate your guidance. Respect Pradeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2004 Report Share Posted August 26, 2004 Hello chandrashekhar ji Is there any literature/Information about Sun being atmakaraka and Karkamsa and its effect if Sun is also Navmansha Lagnadhipati? Its really difficult to analyse my chart sometime... Sun is my atmakaraka but debilited in Rashi chart. But Navmansh lagna lord is also Sun. And Sun is in 11th house in gemini. Also if you see Sun(atmakaraka and navmansh lagna lord) and Rashi chart lagna lord mercury aspect each other in D-9 in 5/9 axis. Here what is role of debilited atmakaraka in main chart and How to analyse such atmakaraka ? I did not find much informatio about Sun being atmakaraka.. ? Here are my details 14 Nov 1972 4.22 am Pune India I agree that in liturartue, parashara Rishi mentions that Sun cojoins meeans Sun cojoins atakaraka that does by deafut indicate sun as atmkarka. Otherwise Parashara rishi would have said clearly about it. Regards Kalyani vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Nitin, > Read the Sutras just prior to what the Sage has said in Pada 2. Here he > defines Various Navamsha becoming Karakamsha on account of housing the > Atmakaraka till sutra 13. Again sutra 15 talks about Moon and Venus > having to join Karakamsha for one to become wealthy and earn through > education as profession. It is not necessary to repeat here that two > planets can not become Atmakaraka simultaneously. So in Sutra 15 the > planets, obviously are not indicative of their being Atma Karaka. > Therefore when the Sage says Tatra in Sutra 14, one should understand > that he means Sun joining Karakamsha housing the Atmakaraka, would not > be Sun. Go further to sutra 23 where one getting bitten by snake is said > to be the result of Ravi and Rahu joining the Karakamsha. Same logic > here too. The difference is that though Ravi joins Karakamsha Rahu > debilitates him and one gets bitten by snake instead of becoming either > fond of public service or political activities. So why strength is to be > seen in Navamsha too, in the manner suggested by Parashara for D- Charts > should also be clear. For classical reference look at what Parashara > says about analysis of Varga charts in the great classic B.P.H.S. He is > very clear about how they are to be analyzed. I only quoted his opinion. > I trust the meaning is now clear. By the way Parashara does not > distinguish between the way charts are to be analyzed for strength of > planets. > Chandrashekhar. > > Nitin wrote: > > > ||| Hare Rama Krishna ||| > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > Here is a snapshot of MJUS (translation). Before this chapter, the > > Author describes the AtmaKaraka in different signs. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > Nitin. > > > > || Namah Shivaaya || > > > > > > > > =================== > > > > ADHYAYA 1- PADA 2 > > > > > > SU. 14.-Tatra ravou rajakaryaparaha. If the Sun occupies the > > Karakamsa, the person will be fond of public service and will work in > > political activities. > > > > > > > > SU. 15. -Poornendusukrayorbhogee vidyajeevee cha. If Full Moon and > > Venus join Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, the person will command great > > wealth and all comforts attendant on wealth and he will also earn > > money and live by the profession of education. > > > > > > > > SU. 16.-Dhatuvadee kountayudho vahnijeevee cha bhoume. When Kuja joins > > Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, the person becomes great in the preparation > > of various medical mixtures, will bear arms like kuntayudha and other > > weapons, and live by profession involving preparations in or near > > fire. > > > > > > > > SU. 17.-yanijatantuvayaha silpino vyavaharavidascha soumye. If Budha > > conjoins the Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, the persons become merchants, > > weavers and manufacturers of clothes, artists and persons clever in > > preparing curios, and those well versed in the affairs of social and > > political matters. > > > > SU. 18.-Kairmagnunanishta vedavidascha jeevay. When Guru joins the > > Navamsa with Atmakaraka, the person will be well versed in Vedic or > > religious rituals, will have religious wisdom, well known in the rules > > of sacrificial functions and will have good knowledge in Vedanta and > > will be a religious man. . > > > > SU. 19.-Rajakeeyaha kaminaha satendriyascha sttkre. . If Sukra joins > > the Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, the person will become a great official > > or political personage, will be fond of many women and will retain > > vitality and sexual passions till he is hundred years old. > > > > > > > > SU. 20.--Prasiddhakarma jeevaha sanow. If Sani joins Atmakaraka in the > > Navamsa, he will produce a famous person in his own line of business. > > > > > > > > SU. 21.-Dhanushkaschouvrascha jangalikalohayantrinascha rahow. It Rahu > > joins the Atmakaraka in Navamsa the person will live by the skilful > > use of warlike instruments, he will earn bread as thief and dacoit; he > > becomes a doctor dealing in poisons, manufacturer of gold, silver, > > copper and other metallic machinery > > > > SU. 22.--Gajavyavaharinaschourrascha kethau. 'When Ketu joins the > > Atmakaraka in the Navamsa the persons born under such combination > > trade in elephants or become thieves and robbers. > > =================== > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > > > Thanks for your reply. > > I understand from your mail that sutras have to be understood with > > continuity,content as well as structure wise. > > In this case after describing about results of AK in various > > navamshas,the sage is not mentioning about individual results of AK. > > I am seeing only published sutras(internet) ,thus i may be wrong. > > Regarding position of karakamsha i understand your point.But until > > now i have a feeling that house considerations are not needed in > > vargas(other than rashi). > > I think other vargas are analysed differently.Diety lordships,Tattawa > > (friendly,ucha/swa rashis as you have mentioned),lording quadrants > > from AL(w.r rashi),not posited in rashis whose lords are combust etc. > > As my knowledge is limited i may request you to guide to any > > classical reference regarding this.I have read some local language > > books,theraswell i can see only references about benefic navamshas > > etc.No Kendra,trikona references at all. > > They have given effects due to various drekkanas etc but again no > > house considerations. > > > > As the learned members have vast experience i appreciate your > > guidance. > > > > Respect > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > > > * Sponsor* > > > > click here > > <http://us.ard./SIG=1293v00uo/M=298184.5285298.6392945.30011 76/D=groups/S=1705082686:HM/EXP=1093635832/A=2319501/R=0/SIG=11tq0u90 9/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185353&partid=5285298> > > > > > > > > -------------------------------- ------- > > * Links* > > > > * > > vedic astrology/ > > > > * > > vedic astrology > > <vedic astrology? subject=Un> > > > > * Terms of > > Service <>. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2004 Report Share Posted August 27, 2004 Dear Chandrashekhar ji Thanks a lot for posting all the details. Here Parashara is mentioning about vimshopaka bala.Also the main strenghts are based on the signs.(own,exaltation etc).Also if it is a debilitation rashi he points out weakness. Also i have seen yourself mentioning in an old mail that parashara has not advised us to cast individual charts for divisionals, as compared to special lagnas(where he advises). The same is my understanding.My knowledge is limited but i feel house considerations are not very logical in divisionals,unless learned members can explain this to satisfaction. Today i have read an online translation of jaimini sutras ,from Shri.B.V.Raman and from his revered father Shri.Surya narayana Rao - where they have mentioned about the difference in opinion between sages.For eg.Hora.Thus i feel as you have mentioned one has to sincerely study and apply sense to unearth the real meanings,as sutras are tough to crack. Respect Pradeep vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Pradeep, > Here is what Parashara says about special consideration of Divisional > charts. I have made the part about position of grahas bold for easy > reference. > > 1-8. Use of the 16 Divisions. Now I will explain the use of these > sixteen divisions. The physique from Lagn, wealth from Hora, happiness > through co-born from Dreshkan, fortunes from Chaturtha-n's', sons and > grandsons from Sapta-n's', spouse from Nava-n's', power (and position) > from Dasha-n's', parents from Dvadasha-n's', benefits and adversities > through conveyances from Shodasha-n's', worship from Vimsha-n's', > learning from Chaturvimsha-n's', strength and weakness from > Saptavimsha-n's', evil effects from Trimsha-n's', auspicious and > inauspicious effects from Khaveda-n's' and all indications from both > Akshaveda-n's' and Shashtia-n's': these are the considerations to be > made through the respective Vargas. The Bhava, whose Lord is in a > malefic Shashtia-n's', will diminish; so say Garga and others. The > Bhava, whose Lord is in a benefic Shodasha-n's', flourish. This is how > the 16 Vargas are to be evaluated. > > 9-12. After assessing the 20 point strength of the ascending degree, of > other Bhavas and of the Grahas, the good and bad effects be declared. I > explain below the method of knowing the Vimsopak strength (20 point > strength), just by knowing which an idea of the results of actions of > this birth and of former birth will clearly emerge. *The Grahas from > Su-rya on get full strength, when in exaltation, or in own Ra-s'i and > are bereft of strength, when in the 7^th (from exaltation)*. In between > the strength be known by the rule of three process. In the case of a > Grah, owning two Ra-s'is, distinction of placement in odd/even Ra- s'i > identical with own Ra-s'i be made. > > The Vimshopaka Bala is based on the position of planets. > Hope this helps. > Chandrashekhar. > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > > > Thanks for your reply. > > I understand from your mail that sutras have to be understood with > > continuity,content as well as structure wise. > > In this case after describing about results of AK in various > > navamshas,the sage is not mentioning about individual results of AK. > > I am seeing only published sutras(internet) ,thus i may be wrong. > > Regarding position of karakamsha i understand your point.But until > > now i have a feeling that house considerations are not needed in > > vargas(other than rashi). > > I think other vargas are analysed differently.Diety lordships,Tattawa > > (friendly,ucha/swa rashis as you have mentioned),lording quadrants > > from AL(w.r rashi),not posited in rashis whose lords are combust etc. > > As my knowledge is limited i may request you to guide to any > > classical reference regarding this.I have read some local language > > books,theraswell i can see only references about benefic navamshas > > etc.No Kendra,trikona references at all. > > They have given effects due to various drekkanas etc but again no > > house considerations. > > > > As the learned members have vast experience i appreciate your > > guidance. > > > > Respect > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar <boxdel> > > wrote: > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > It is not the literal meaning but the way Sutras are framed that > > needs > > > to be looked into. If the intention was to say that Surya as > > Atmakaraka > > > by himself would give the results, he would have said so. When > > reference > > > is to a planet joining Karakamsha, I would think that the meaning > > is > > > that Karakamsha is already defined by presence of Atmakaraka in a > > > particular Navamsha and the planet Sun has to join it. > > > Sutras are, anyway, difficult to interpret. That is why different > > > authorities have given different interpretation of their inner > > meaning. > > > I always try to find out whether the meaning fits in with the > > basic > > > principles of astrology, before arriving at any conclusion. For > > example, > > > Parashara tells to look at placement of planets in Navamsha and > > other > > > D-Charts to assess their Bala. Meaning their being in trines or > > > quadrants would make them strong, as would their being Uccha, in > > own > > > house or friend's house. > > > Look at it at this way, would Karakamsha being in 6th house give > > sames > > > strength to the AK than if it is in a Trine? I am certain it would > > not. > > > Similarly Sun being in say Aries or Leo would give it more > > strength than > > > being in say Libra or Virgo. The sages give us principles and ask > > Us to > > > use our sense of proportion to come near prediction. At least I > > think > > > that way. Those more learned than me might have a different view. > > > Hope this helps, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > > > > > > > Thanks for the reply. > > > > My only concern is ,if a person has sun as atmakaraka - then he > > is > > > > loosing the benefit of this sutra.Similar is the case with other > > > > atmakarakas,if they can give such results only by conjunction. > > > > Why cannot the king give on its own - while it is able to give > > even > > > > by conjunction. > > > > But if i am right -then as well, it is not logical to think that > > all > > > > with AK as sun will be related to politics.Thus my leaning > > towards > > > > position in rashi. > > > > > > > > As i have no good knowledge in sanskrit - i may ask about the > > exact > > > > translation of the sutra. > > > > > > > > Respect > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar > > <boxdel> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Pradeep, > > > > > Perhaps the key would be to understand why two different Sutras > > > > are used > > > > > by the Sage for effects of Atmakaraka in specific Navamsha > > signs( > > > > which > > > > > by virtue of its occupation becomes Karakamsha). In the first > > > > instance > > > > > he gives results of Atmakaraka irrespective of the planet. Now > > > > when he > > > > > says when Surya joins Karakamsha, to me it would appear that > > > > planet > > > > > other than Surya would have to be AK, thereby defining > > Karakamsha > > > > that > > > > > Surya is supposed to occupy. Surya joining Atmakaraka who is > > > > defined as > > > > > King by the Sage, and being King himself could give one > > connection > > > > with > > > > > political activities. The extent would depend on the placement > > and > > > > > strength of the Planets. > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear respected members > > > > > > > > > > > > I have read some jaimini sutras w.r to karakamsha - One sutra > > > > says > > > > > > Sun in karakamsha will relate one to ploitics.Does this mean > > all > > > > the > > > > > > individuals with sun as AK(of course with other strengths) , > > > > will be > > > > > > related to politics?I don't think so.If that was the case, > > then > > > > the > > > > > > munis with such knowledge using a language like sanskrit, > > known > > > > for > > > > > > brevity ,will not try to confuse us.They will simply say all > > > > > > individuals with Sun as AK will be related to > > politics,instead of > > > > > > saying Sun in Karakamsha(as both refers to the same as per > > this > > > > > > understanding).Thus it makes me think that karakamsha is to > > > > identify > > > > > > the basic tattwa in which AK is closely related.The sign with > > > > this > > > > > > tattwa in Rashi becomes the Karakamsha Lagna and all > > > > > > aspects ,argala,arudha etc can be applied then from > > > > Karakamsha.When > > > > > > the full environment(Rashi) and the amsha (where AK (Soul) is > > > > placed) > > > > > > are similar, the indications of the planet will fructify > > without > > > > > > obstructions.For example sun is the king and when he is > > > > subjected to > > > > > > above conditions - one will be related to politics.I was also > > > > worried > > > > > > after seeing aspects mentioned in jaimini sutras w.r to > > > > karakamsha - > > > > > > Once i thought of transforming these to Rashi - My concerns > > were > > > > > > gone.Giving due respect to Sanjayji's teachings and the > > learning > > > > i > > > > > > have gained from him (directly & indirectly) , i tend to > > think > > > > > > differently regarding Karakamsha analysis. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kindly give a thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regds > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- > > > > astrology/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....... 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Guest guest Posted August 27, 2004 Report Share Posted August 27, 2004 Dear Sanjay, Hare Rama Krsna! I have Sun conjoining Karakamsha and Navamsa Lagna lord Saturn is AK, so there is a connection here, yet I have no ambitions whatsoever to go into politics or to dominate or so. Well, do we have something wrong here, or is there something we are overlooking? Also, we cannot say that everybody who is born in the world around the same time when this happens will be either a politician or a leader, or a king. There must be more fine-tuning to it. Regarding Sastiamsa, some claimed lately that if AK is in Sastiamsa lagna, there is no birth possible, because one would have attained moksha in the last life. How to consider then if somebody was born in a royal family or was a king in the last life? AK in Sastiamsa lagna would indicate that? Yours, Dhira Krsna dasa, Jyotishi http://www.radhadesh.com http://www.geocities.com/dvdd1008/Jyotisha.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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