Doubt regarding Karakamsha

August 24, 2004

Om Gurave Namah

Dear Pradeep

Brilliant question and point indeed.

The atmakaraka and its trines indicate the aspirations of the soul,which is

really its failing. It also indicates its stage of spiritual development.

Thus while the Sun in trines to the karakamsa or as the atmakaraka shall

give an internal desire to dominate, to lead and this can cause a desire to

be in politics or any leadership role in any field, this may not happen if

there is no such link from the navamsa lagna or with the navamsa lagna. If

there is a link between the two then not only are the abilities and

resources available but also the strong urge of the atma force is also there

to back the propulsion towards the goal. This is the subtle difference

between the karakamsa and the navamsa lagna.

With Kind regards,

Sanjay Rath

webpages: http://srath.com & http://.org

vijayadas_pradeep [vijayadas_pradeep]

Tuesday, August 24, 2004 1:06 PM

vedic astrology

[vedic astrology] Re: Doubt regarding Karakamsha

Dear Chandrashekhar ji

Thanks for the reply.

My only concern is ,if a person has sun as atmakaraka - then he is loosing

the benefit of this sutra.Similar is the case with other atmakarakas,if they

can give such results only by conjunction.

Why cannot the king give on its own - while it is able to give even by

conjunction.

But if i am right -then as well, it is not logical to think that all with AK

as sun will be related to politics.Thus my leaning towards position in

rashi.

As i have no good knowledge in sanskrit - i may ask about the exact

translation of the sutra.

Respect

Pradeep

vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar <boxdel>

wrote:

> Dear Pradeep,

> Perhaps the key would be to understand why two different Sutras

are used

> by the Sage for effects of Atmakaraka in specific Navamsha signs(

which

> by virtue of its occupation becomes Karakamsha). In the first

instance

> he gives results of Atmakaraka irrespective of the planet. Now

when he

> says when Surya joins Karakamsha, to me it would appear that

planet

> other than Surya would have to be AK, thereby defining Karakamsha

that

> Surya is supposed to occupy. Surya joining Atmakaraka who is

defined as

> King by the Sage, and being King himself could give one connection

with

> political activities. The extent would depend on the placement and

> strength of the Planets.

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> > Dear respected members

> >

> > I have read some jaimini sutras w.r to karakamsha - One sutra

says

> > Sun in karakamsha will relate one to ploitics.Does this mean all

the

> > individuals with sun as AK(of course with other strengths) ,

will be

> > related to politics?I don't think so.If that was the case, then

the

> > munis with such knowledge using a language like sanskrit, known

for

> > brevity ,will not try to confuse us.They will simply say all

> > individuals with Sun as AK will be related to politics,instead of

> > saying Sun in Karakamsha(as both refers to the same as per this

> > understanding).Thus it makes me think that karakamsha is to

identify

> > the basic tattwa in which AK is closely related.The sign with

this

> > tattwa in Rashi becomes the Karakamsha Lagna and all aspects

> > ,argala,arudha etc can be applied then from

Karakamsha.When

> > the full environment(Rashi) and the amsha (where AK(Soul) is

placed)

> > are similar, the indications of the planet will fructify without

> > obstructions.For example sun is the king and when he is

subjected to

> > above conditions - one will be related to politics.I was also

worried

> > after seeing aspects mentioned in jaimini sutras w.r to

karakamsha -

> > Once i thought of transforming these to Rashi - My concerns were

> > gone.Giving due respect to Sanjayji's teachings and the learning

i

> > have gained from him (directly & indirectly) , i tend to think

> > differently regarding Karakamsha analysis.

> >

> > Kindly give a thought.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > Group info: vedic-

astrology/info.html

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> >

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> >

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August 24, 2004

Dear Sanjay,

While on this topic regarding the aspirations of the atman, could you shed some

light on what it means for the atmakaraka to be exalted/debilitated in the

navamsa? Or in other words, how does the dignity of the planet affect the

aspirations of the soul.

Kind regards

HariSanjay Rath <guruji (AT) srath (DOT) com> wrote:

Om Gurave NamahDear PradeepBrilliant question and point indeed.The atmakaraka

and its trines indicate the aspirations of the soul,which isreally its failing.

It also indicates its stage of spiritual development.Thus while the Sun in

trines to the karakamsa or as the atmakaraka shallgive an internal desire to

dominate, to lead and this can cause a desire tobe in politics or any

leadership role in any field, this may not happen ifthere is no such link from

the navamsa lagna or with the navamsa lagna. Ifthere is a link between the two

then not only are the abilities andresources available but also the strong urge

of the atma force is also thereto back the propulsion towards the goal. This is

the subtle differencebetween the karakamsa and the navamsa lagna.With Kind

regards,Sanjay Rathwebpages: http://srath.com & http://.org

vijayadas_pradeep

[vijayadas_pradeep ] Tuesday, August 24, 2004 1:06 PMTo:

vedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Re: Doubt regarding

KarakamshaDear Chandrashekhar jiThanks for the reply.My only concern is ,if a

person has sun as atmakaraka - then he is loosingthe benefit of this

sutra.Similar is the case with other atmakarakas,if theycan give such results

only by conjunction.Why cannot the king give on its own - while it is able to

give even byconjunction.But if i am right -then as well, it is not logical to

think that all with AKas sun will be related to politics.Thus my leaning

towards position inrashi.As i have no good knowledge in sanskrit - i may ask

about the exacttranslation of the

sutra.RespectPradeepvedic astrology, Chandrashekhar

<boxdel>wrote:> Dear Pradeep,> Perhaps the key would be to understand why

two different Sutrasare used > by the Sage for effects of Atmakaraka in

specific Navamsha signs(which > by virtue of its occupation becomes

Karakamsha). In the firstinstance > he gives results of Atmakaraka

irrespective of the planet. Nowwhen he > says when Surya joins Karakamsha, to

me it would appear thatplanet > other than Surya would have to be AK, thereby

defining Karakamshathat > Surya is supposed to occupy. Surya joining Atmakaraka

who isdefined as > King by the Sage, and being King himself could give one

connectionwith > political activities. The extent would depend on the placement

and > strength of the Planets.> Chandrashekhar.> > vijayadas_pradeep

wrote:> > > Dear respected members> >> > I have read some jaimini sutras w.r to

karakamsha - One sutrasays> > Sun in karakamsha will relate one to

ploitics.Does this mean allthe> > individuals with sun as AK(of course with

other strengths) ,will be> > related to politics?I don't think so.If that was

the case, thenthe> > munis with such knowledge using a language like sanskrit,

knownfor> > brevity ,will not try to confuse us.They will simply say all > >

individuals with Sun as AK will be related to politics,instead of > > saying

Sun in Karakamsha(as both refers to the same as per this > >

understanding).Thus it makes me think that karakamsha is toidentify> > the

basic tattwa in which AK is closely related.The sign withthis> > tattwa in

Rashi becomes the Karakamsha Lagna and all aspects > > ,argala,arudha etc can

be applied then fromKarakamsha.When> > the full environment(Rashi) and the amsha

(where AK(Soul) isplaced)> > are similar, the indications of the planet will

fructify without > > obstructions.For example sun is the king and when he

issubjected to> > above conditions - one will be related to politics.I was

alsoworried> > after seeing aspects mentioned in jaimini sutras w.r

tokarakamsha -> > Once i thought of transforming these to Rashi - My concerns

were > > gone.Giving due respect to Sanjayji's teachings and the learningi> >

have gained from him (directly & indirectly) , i tend to think > > differently

regarding Karakamsha analysis.> >> > Kindly give a thought.> >> > Regds> >

Pradeep> >> >> >> >> > Archives: vedic astrology>

>> > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> >> >

> >> >

> >> > || Om Tat Sat ||

Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||> >> >> > * Sponsor*> >

> > click here> >

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August 25, 2004

|| Om Krishna Guru ||Dear Pradeep,

Sorry to interfere. Going back to basics, if you see the defn of Karakamsa, it

is the Rasi in which AK is placed in Navamsa. Here the defn doesn't say its

Rasi+AK, its simply Rasi. So by default, AK is placed in the strongest trine

wrt Karakaamsa Lagna and the rest follows....

Best Wishes,

Sarath.

-

vijayadas_pradeep

vedic astrology

Tuesday, August 24, 2004 1:05 PM

[vedic astrology] Re: Doubt regarding Karakamsha

Dear Chandrashekhar jiThanks for the reply.My only concern is ,if a person has

sun as atmakaraka - then he is loosing the benefit of this sutra.Similar is the

case with other atmakarakas,if they can give such results only by

conjunction.Why cannot the king give on its own - while it is able to give even

by conjunction.But if i am right -then as well, it is not logical to think that

all with AK as sun will be related to politics.Thus my leaning towards position

in rashi.As i have no good knowledge in sanskrit - i may ask about the exact

translation of the sutra.RespectPradeepvedic astrology,

Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote:> Dear Pradeep,> Perhaps the key would be to

understand why two different Sutras are used > by the Sage for effects of

Atmakaraka in specific Navamsha signs( which > by virtue of its occupation

becomes Karakamsha). In the first instance > he gives results of Atmakaraka

irrespective of the planet. Now when he > says when Surya joins Karakamsha, to

me it would appear that planet > other than Surya would have to be AK, thereby

defining Karakamsha that > Surya is supposed to occupy. Surya joining

Atmakaraka who is defined as > King by the Sage, and being King himself could

give one connection with > political activities. The extent would depend on the

placement and > strength of the Planets.> Chandrashekhar.> > vijayadas_pradeep

wrote:> > > Dear respected members> >> > I have read some jaimini sutras w.r to

karakamsha - One sutra says> > Sun in karakamsha will relate one to

ploitics.Does this mean all the> > individuals with sun as AK(of course with

other strengths) , will be> > related to politics?I don't think so.If that was

the case, then the> > munis with such knowledge using a language like sanskrit,

known for> > brevity ,will not try to confuse us.They will simply say all> >

individuals with Sun as AK will be related to politics,instead of> > saying Sun

in Karakamsha(as both refers to the same as per this> > understanding).Thus it

makes me think that karakamsha is to identify> > the basic tattwa in which AK

is closely related.The sign with this> > tattwa in Rashi becomes the Karakamsha

Lagna and all> > aspects ,argala,arudha etc can be applied then from

Karakamsha.When> > the full environment(Rashi) and the amsha (where AK(Soul) is

placed)> > are similar, the indications of the planet will fructify without> >

obstructions.For example sun is the king and when he is subjected to> > above

conditions - one will be related to politics.I was also worried> > after seeing

aspects mentioned in jaimini sutras w.r to karakamsha -> > Once i thought of

transforming these to Rashi - My concerns were> > gone.Giving due respect to

Sanjayji's teachings and the learning i> > have gained from him (directly &

indirectly) , i tend to think> > differently regarding Karakamsha analysis.> >>

> Kindly give a thought.> >> > Regds> > Pradeep> >> >> >> >> > Archives:

vedic astrology> >> > Group info:

vedic astrology/info.html> >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE:

Blank mail to vedic astrology-> >> > ....... May

Jupiter's light shine on us .......> >> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

Krishnaarpanamastu ||> >> >> > * Sponsor*> > > >

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August 25, 2004

Dear Pradeep,

It is not the literal meaning but the way Sutras are framed that needs

to be looked into. If the intention was to say that Surya as Atmakaraka

by himself would give the results, he would have said so. When

reference is to a planet joining Karakamsha, I would think that the

meaning is that Karakamsha is already defined by presence of Atmakaraka

in a particular Navamsha and the planet Sun has to join it.

Sutras are, anyway, difficult to interpret. That is why different

authorities have given different interpretation of their inner meaning.

I always try to find out whether the meaning fits in with the basic

principles of astrology, before arriving at any conclusion. For

example, Parashara tells to look at placement of planets in Navamsha

and other D-Charts to assess their Bala. Meaning their being in trines

or quadrants would make them strong, as would their being Uccha, in own

house or friend's house.

Look at it at this way, would Karakamsha being in 6th house give sames

strength to the AK than if it is in a Trine? I am certain it would not.

Similarly Sun being in say Aries or Leo would give it more strength

than being in say Libra or Virgo. The sages give us principles and ask

Us to use our sense of proportion to come near prediction. At least I

think that way. Those more learned than me might have a different view.

Hope this helps,

Chandrashekhar.

vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar ji

Thanks for the reply.

My only concern is ,if a person has sun as atmakaraka - then he is

loosing the benefit of this sutra.Similar is the case with other

atmakarakas,if they can give such results only by conjunction.

Why cannot the king give on its own - while it is able to give even

by conjunction.

But if i am right -then as well, it is not logical to think that all

with AK as sun will be related to politics.Thus my leaning towards

position in rashi.

As i have no good knowledge in sanskrit - i may ask about the exact

translation of the sutra.

Respect

Pradeep

vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar

wrote:

> Dear Pradeep,

> Perhaps the key would be to understand why two different Sutras

are used

> by the Sage for effects of Atmakaraka in specific Navamsha signs(

which

> by virtue of its occupation becomes Karakamsha). In the first

instance

> he gives results of Atmakaraka irrespective of the planet. Now

when he

> says when Surya joins Karakamsha, to me it would appear that

planet

> other than Surya would have to be AK, thereby defining Karakamsha

that

> Surya is supposed to occupy. Surya joining Atmakaraka who is

defined as

> King by the Sage, and being King himself could give one connection

with

> political activities. The extent would depend on the placement and

> strength of the Planets.

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> > Dear respected members

> >

> > I have read some jaimini sutras w.r to karakamsha - One sutra

says

> > Sun in karakamsha will relate one to ploitics.Does this mean

all

the

> > individuals with sun as AK(of course with other strengths) ,

will be

> > related to politics?I don't think so.If that was the case,

then

the

> > munis with such knowledge using a language like sanskrit,

known

for

> > brevity ,will not try to confuse us.They will simply say all

> > individuals with Sun as AK will be related to

politics,instead of

> > saying Sun in Karakamsha(as both refers to the same as per

this

> > understanding).Thus it makes me think that karakamsha is to

identify

> > the basic tattwa in which AK is closely related.The sign with

this

> > tattwa in Rashi becomes the Karakamsha Lagna and all

> > aspects ,argala,arudha etc can be applied then from

Karakamsha.When

> > the full environment(Rashi) and the amsha (where AK(Soul) is

placed)

> > are similar, the indications of the planet will fructify

without

> > obstructions.For example sun is the king and when he is

subjected to

> > above conditions - one will be related to politics.I was also

worried

> > after seeing aspects mentioned in jaimini sutras w.r to

karakamsha -

> > Once i thought of transforming these to Rashi - My concerns

were

> > gone.Giving due respect to Sanjayji's teachings and the

learning

i

> > have gained from him (directly & indirectly) , i tend to

think

> > differently regarding Karakamsha analysis.

> >

> > Kindly give a thought.

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > Group info: vedic-

astrology/info.html

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> > * Sponsor*

> >

> > click here

> >

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August 26, 2004

Dear Nitin,

Read the Sutras just prior to what the Sage has said in Pada 2. Here he

defines Various Navamsha becoming Karakamsha on account of housing the

Atmakaraka till sutra 13. Again sutra 15 talks about Moon and Venus

having to join Karakamsha for one to become wealthy and earn through

education as profession. It is not necessary to repeat here that two

planets can not become Atmakaraka simultaneously. So in Sutra 15 the

planets, obviously are not indicative of their being Atma Karaka.

Therefore when the Sage says Tatra in Sutra 14, one should understand

that he means Sun joining Karakamsha housing the Atmakaraka, would not

be Sun. Go further to sutra 23 where one getting bitten by snake is

said to be the result of Ravi and Rahu joining the Karakamsha. Same

logic here too. The difference is that though Ravi joins Karakamsha

Rahu debilitates him and one gets bitten by snake instead of becoming

either fond of public service or political activities. So why strength

is to be seen in Navamsha too, in the manner suggested by Parashara for

D-Charts should also be clear. For classical reference look at what

Parashara says about analysis of Varga charts in the great classic

B.P.H.S. He is very clear about how they are to be analyzed. I only

quoted his opinion.

I trust the meaning is now clear. By the way Parashara does not

distinguish between the way charts are to be analyzed for strength of

planets.

Chandrashekhar.

Nitin wrote:

||| Hare Rama Krishna |||

Dear Pradeep,

Here is a snapshot of MJUS (translation). Before this chapter, the

Author describes the AtmaKaraka in different signs.

Hope this helps.

Nitin.

|| Namah Shivaaya ||

===================

ADHYAYA 1- PADA 2

SU. 14.-Tatra ravou rajakaryaparaha. If the Sun occupies the

Karakamsa, the person will be fond of public service and will work in

political activities.

SU. 15. -Poornendusukrayorbhogee vidyajeevee cha. If Full Moon and

Venus join Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, the person will command great

wealth and all comforts attendant on wealth and he will also earn

money and live by the profession of education.

SU. 16.-Dhatuvadee kountayudho vahnijeevee cha bhoume. When Kuja joins

Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, the person becomes great in the preparation

of various medical mixtures, will bear arms like kuntayudha and other

weapons, and live by profession involving preparations in or near

fire.

SU. 17.-yanijatantuvayaha silpino vyavaharavidascha soumye. If Budha

conjoins the Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, the persons become merchants,

weavers and manufacturers of clothes, artists and persons clever in

preparing curios, and those well versed in the affairs of social and

political matters.

SU. 18.-Kairmagnunanishta vedavidascha jeevay. When Guru joins the

Navamsa with Atmakaraka, the person will be well versed in Vedic or

religious rituals, will have religious wisdom, well known in the rules

of sacrificial functions and will have good knowledge in Vedanta and

will be a religious man. .

SU. 19.-Rajakeeyaha kaminaha satendriyascha sttkre. . If Sukra joins

the Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, the person will become a great official

or political personage, will be fond of many women and will retain

vitality and sexual passions till he is hundred years old.

SU. 20.--Prasiddhakarma jeevaha sanow. If Sani joins Atmakaraka in the

Navamsa, he will produce a famous person in his own line of business.

SU. 21.-Dhanushkaschouvrascha jangalikalohayantrinascha rahow. It Rahu

joins the Atmakaraka in Navamsa the person will live by the skilful

use of warlike instruments, he will earn bread as thief and dacoit; he

becomes a doctor dealing in poisons, manufacturer of gold, silver,

copper and other metallic machinery

SU. 22.--Gajavyavaharinaschourrascha kethau. 'When Ketu joins the

Atmakaraka in the Navamsa the persons born under such combination

trade in elephants or become thieves and robbers.

===================

Dear Chandrashekhar ji

Thanks for your reply.

I understand from your mail that sutras have to be understood with

continuity,content as well as structure wise.

In this case after describing about results of AK in various

navamshas,the sage is not mentioning about individual results of AK.

I am seeing only published sutras(internet) ,thus i may be wrong.

Regarding position of karakamsha i understand your point.But until

now i have a feeling that house considerations are not needed in

vargas(other than rashi).

I think other vargas are analysed differently.Diety lordships,Tattawa

(friendly,ucha/swa rashis as you have mentioned),lording quadrants

from AL(w.r rashi),not posited in rashis whose lords are combust etc.

As my knowledge is limited i may request you to guide to any

classical reference regarding this.I have read some local language

books,theraswell i can see only references about benefic navamshas

etc.No Kendra,trikona references at all.

They have given effects due to various drekkanas etc but again no

house considerations.

As the learned members have vast experience i appreciate your

guidance.

Respect

Pradeep

August 26, 2004

Kindly refer to sloka 9-12 in ch.32, I presume this may give a break through in your case.

Regards,

D.SathiyanarayanaGupta.

astro_learn <astrolearn (AT) indiatimes (DOT) com> wrote:

Hello chandrashekhar jiIs there any literature/Information about Sun being

atmakaraka and Karkamsa and its effect if Sun is also Navmansha

Lagnadhipati?Its really difficult to analyse my chart sometime...Sun is my

atmakaraka but debilited in Rashi chart.But Navmansh lagna lord is also Sun.

And Sun is in 11th house in gemini.Also if you see Sun(atmakaraka and navmansh

lagna lord) and Rashi chart lagna lord mercury aspect each other in D-9 in 5/9

axis.Here what is role of debilited atmakaraka in main chart and How to analyse

such atmakaraka ? I did not find much informatio about Sun being atmakaraka..

?Here are my details14 Nov 19724.22 amPune IndiaI agree that in liturartue,

parashara Rishi mentions that Sun cojoins meeans Sun cojoins atakaraka that

does by deafut indicate sun as

atmkarka. Otherwise Parashara rishi would have said clearly about

it.RegardsKalyanivedic astrology, Chandrashekhar

<boxdel> wrote:> Dear Nitin,> Read the Sutras just prior to what the Sage

has said in Pada 2. Here he > defines Various Navamsha becoming Karakamsha on

account of housing the > Atmakaraka till sutra 13. Again sutra 15 talks about

Moon and Venus > having to join Karakamsha for one to become wealthy and earn

through > education as profession. It is not necessary to repeat here that two

> planets can not become Atmakaraka simultaneously. So in Sutra 15 the >

planets, obviously are not indicative of their being Atma Karaka. > Therefore

when the Sage says Tatra in Sutra 14, one should understand > that he means Sun

joining Karakamsha housing the Atmakaraka, would not > be Sun. Go further to

sutra 23

where one getting bitten by snake is said > to be the result of Ravi and Rahu

joining the Karakamsha. Same logic > here too. The difference is that though

Ravi joins Karakamsha Rahu > debilitates him and one gets bitten by snake

instead of becoming either > fond of public service or political activities. So

why strength is to be > seen in Navamsha too, in the manner suggested by

Parashara for D-Charts > should also be clear. For classical reference look at

what Parashara > says about analysis of Varga charts in the great classic

B.P.H.S. He is > very clear about how they are to be analyzed. I only quoted

his opinion.> I trust the meaning is now clear. By the way Parashara does not

> distinguish between the way charts are to be analyzed for strength of >

planets.> Chandrashekhar.> > Nitin wrote:> > > ||| Hare Rama Krishna

|||> >> > Dear Pradeep,> >> > Here is a snapshot of MJUS (translation). Before

this chapter, the> > Author describes the AtmaKaraka in different signs.> >> >

Hope this helps.> >> > Nitin.> >> > || Namah Shivaaya ||> >> >> >> >

===================> >> > ADHYAYA 1- PADA 2> >> >> > SU. 14.-Tatra ravou

rajakaryaparaha. If the Sun occupies the> > Karakamsa, the person will be fond

of public service and will work in> > political activities.> >> >> >> > SU. 15.

-Poornendusukrayorbhogee vidyajeevee cha. If Full Moon and> > Venus join

Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, the person will command great> > wealth and all

comforts attendant on wealth and he will also earn> > money and live by the

profession of education.> >> >> >> > SU. 16.-Dhatuvadee kountayudho vahnijeevee

cha bhoume. When Kuja joins> > Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, the person becomes

great in the preparation> > of various medical mixtures, will bear arms like

kuntayudha and other> > weapons, and live by profession involving preparations

in or near> > fire.> >> >> >> > SU. 17.-yanijatantuvayaha silpino

vyavaharavidascha soumye. If Budha> > conjoins the Atmakaraka in the Navamsa,

the persons become merchants,> > weavers and manufacturers of clothes, artists

and persons clever in> > preparing curios, and those well versed in the affairs

of social and> > political matters.> >> > SU. 18.-Kairmagnunanishta vedavidascha

jeevay. When Guru joins the> > Navamsa with Atmakaraka, the person will be

well versed in Vedic or> > religious rituals, will have religious wisdom, well

known in the rules> > of sacrificial functions and will have good knowledge in

Vedanta and> > will be a religious man. .> >> > SU. 19.-Rajakeeyaha kaminaha

satendriyascha sttkre. . If Sukra joins> > the Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, the

person will become a great official> > or political personage, will be fond of

many women and will retain> > vitality and sexual passions till he is hundred

years old.> >> >> >> > SU. 20.--Prasiddhakarma jeevaha sanow. If Sani joins

Atmakaraka in the> > Navamsa, he will produce a famous person in his own line

of business.> >> >> >> > SU. 21.-Dhanushkaschouvrascha

jangalikalohayantrinascha rahow. It Rahu> > joins the Atmakaraka in Navamsa the

person will live by

the skilful> > use of warlike instruments, he will earn bread as thief and

dacoit; he> > becomes a doctor dealing in poisons, manufacturer of gold,

silver,> > copper and other metallic machinery> >> > SU.

22.--Gajavyavaharinaschourrascha kethau. 'When Ketu joins the> > Atmakaraka in

the Navamsa the persons born under such combination> > trade in elephants or

become thieves and robbers.> > ===================> >> > Dear Chandrashekhar

ji> >> > Thanks for your reply.> > I understand from your mail that sutras have

to be understood with> > continuity,content as well as structure wise.> > In

this case after describing about results of AK in various> > navamshas,the sage

is not mentioning about individual results of AK.> > I am seeing only published

sutras(internet) ,thus i may be wrong.> >

Regarding position of karakamsha i understand your point.But until> > now i have

a feeling that house considerations are not needed in> > vargas(other than

rashi).> > I think other vargas are analysed differently.Diety

lordships,Tattawa> > (friendly,ucha/swa rashis as you have mentioned),lording

quadrants> > from AL(w.r rashi),not posited in rashis whose lords are combust

etc.> > As my knowledge is limited i may request you to guide to any> >

classical reference regarding this.I have read some local language> >

books,theraswell i can see only references about benefic navamshas> > etc.No

Kendra,trikona references at all.> > They have given effects due to various

drekkanas etc but again no> > house considerations.> >> > As the learned

members have vast experience i appreciate your> > guidance.> >> >

Respect> > Pradeep> >> >> >> >> > Archives:

vedic astrology> >> > Group info:

vedic astrology/info.html> >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE:

Blank mail to vedic astrology-> >> > ....... May

Jupiter's light shine on us .......> >> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

Krishnaarpanamastu ||> >> >> > * Sponsor*> > > >

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August 27, 2004

Dear Pradeep,

Here is what Parashara says about special consideration of Divisional

charts. I have made the part about position of grahas bold for easy

reference.

1-8. Use of the 16 Divisions. Now I will explain the use of these

sixteen divisions. The physique from Lagn, wealth from Hora, happiness

through co-born from Dreshkan, fortunes from Chaturthāńś, sons and

grandsons from Saptāńś, spouse from Navāńś, power (and position) from

Dashāńś, parents from Dvadashāńś, benefits and adversities through

conveyances from Shodashāńś, worship from Vimshāńś, learning from

Chaturvimshāńś, strength and weakness from Saptavimshāńś, evil effects

from Trimshāńś, auspicious and inauspicious effects from Khavedāńś and

all indications from both Akshavedāńś and Shashtiāńś: these are the

considerations to be made through the respective Vargas. The Bhava,

whose Lord is in a malefic Shashtiāńś, will diminish; so say Garga and

others. The Bhava, whose Lord is in a benefic Shodashāńś, flourish.

This is how the 16 Vargas are to be evaluated.

9-12. After assessing the 20 point strength of the ascending degree,

of other Bhavas and of the Grahas, the good and bad effects be

declared. I explain below the method of knowing the Vimsopak strength

(20 point strength), just by knowing which an idea of the results of

actions of this birth and of former birth will clearly emerge. The

Grahas from Sūrya on get full strength, when in exaltation, or in own

Rāśi and are bereft of strength, when in the 7th (from

exaltation). In between the strength be known by the rule of

three process. In the case of a Grah, owning two Rāśis, distinction of

placement in odd/even Rāśi identical with own Rāśi be made.

The Vimshopaka Bala is based on the position of planets.

Hope this helps.

Chandrashekhar.

vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar ji

Thanks for your reply.

I understand from your mail that sutras have to be understood with

continuity,content as well as structure wise.

In this case after describing about results of AK in various

navamshas,the sage is not mentioning about individual results of AK.

I am seeing only published sutras(internet) ,thus i may be wrong.

Regarding position of karakamsha i understand your point.But until

now i have a feeling that house considerations are not needed in

vargas(other than rashi).

I think other vargas are analysed differently.Diety lordships,Tattawa

(friendly,ucha/swa rashis as you have mentioned),lording quadrants

from AL(w.r rashi),not posited in rashis whose lords are combust etc.

As my knowledge is limited i may request you to guide to any

classical reference regarding this.I have read some local language

books,theraswell i can see only references about benefic navamshas

etc.No Kendra,trikona references at all.

They have given effects due to various drekkanas etc but again no

house considerations.

As the learned members have vast experience i appreciate your

guidance.

Respect

Pradeep

vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar

wrote:

> Dear Pradeep,

> It is not the literal meaning but the way Sutras are framed that

needs

> to be looked into. If the intention was to say that Surya as

Atmakaraka

> by himself would give the results, he would have said so. When

reference

> is to a planet joining Karakamsha, I would think that the meaning

is

> that Karakamsha is already defined by presence of Atmakaraka in a

> particular Navamsha and the planet Sun has to join it.

> Sutras are, anyway, difficult to interpret. That is why different

> authorities have given different interpretation of their inner

meaning.

> I always try to find out whether the meaning fits in with the

basic

> principles of astrology, before arriving at any conclusion. For

example,

> Parashara tells to look at placement of planets in Navamsha and

other

> D-Charts to assess their Bala. Meaning their being in trines or

> quadrants would make them strong, as would their being Uccha, in

own

> house or friend's house.

> Look at it at this way, would Karakamsha being in 6th house give

sames

> strength to the AK than if it is in a Trine? I am certain it would

not.

> Similarly Sun being in say Aries or Leo would give it more

strength than

> being in say Libra or Virgo. The sages give us principles and ask

Us to

> use our sense of proportion to come near prediction. At least I

think

> that way. Those more learned than me might have a different view.

> Hope this helps,

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> >

> > Thanks for the reply.

> > My only concern is ,if a person has sun as atmakaraka - then

he

is

> > loosing the benefit of this sutra.Similar is the case with

other

> > atmakarakas,if they can give such results only by conjunction.

> > Why cannot the king give on its own - while it is able to

give

even

> > by conjunction.

> > But if i am right -then as well, it is not logical to think

that

all

> > with AK as sun will be related to politics.Thus my leaning

towards

> > position in rashi.

> >

> > As i have no good knowledge in sanskrit - i may ask about the

exact

> > translation of the sutra.

> >

> > Respect

> > Pradeep

> >

> > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar

> > wrote:

> > > Dear Pradeep,

> > > Perhaps the key would be to understand why two different

Sutras

> > are used

> > > by the Sage for effects of Atmakaraka in specific

Navamsha

signs(

> > which

> > > by virtue of its occupation becomes Karakamsha). In the

first

> > instance

> > > he gives results of Atmakaraka irrespective of the

planet. Now

> > when he

> > > says when Surya joins Karakamsha, to me it would appear

that

> > planet

> > > other than Surya would have to be AK, thereby defining

Karakamsha

> > that

> > > Surya is supposed to occupy. Surya joining Atmakaraka

who is

> > defined as

> > > King by the Sage, and being King himself could give one

connection

> > with

> > > political activities. The extent would depend on the

placement

and

> > > strength of the Planets.

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

> > >

> > > > Dear respected members

> > > >

> > > > I have read some jaimini sutras w.r to karakamsha -

One sutra

> > says

> > > > Sun in karakamsha will relate one to ploitics.Does

this mean

all

> > the

> > > > individuals with sun as AK(of course with other

strengths) ,

> > will be

> > > > related to politics?I don't think so.If that was

the case,

then

> > the

> > > > munis with such knowledge using a language like

sanskrit,

known

> > for

> > > > brevity ,will not try to confuse us.They will

simply say all

> > > > individuals with Sun as AK will be related to

politics,instead of

> > > > saying Sun in Karakamsha(as both refers to the same

as per

this

> > > > understanding).Thus it makes me think that

karakamsha is to

> > identify

> > > > the basic tattwa in which AK is closely related.The

sign with

> > this

> > > > tattwa in Rashi becomes the Karakamsha Lagna and all

> > > > aspects ,argala,arudha etc can be applied then from

> > Karakamsha.When

> > > > the full environment(Rashi) and the amsha (where

AK(Soul) is

> > placed)

> > > > are similar, the indications of the planet will

fructify

without

> > > > obstructions.For example sun is the king and when

he is

> > subjected to

> > > > above conditions - one will be related to

politics.I was also

> > worried

> > > > after seeing aspects mentioned in jaimini sutras

w.r to

> > karakamsha -

> > > > Once i thought of transforming these to Rashi - My

concerns

were

> > > > gone.Giving due respect to Sanjayji's teachings and

the

learning

> > i

> > > > have gained from him (directly & indirectly) ,

i tend to

think

> > > > differently regarding Karakamsha analysis.

> > > >

> > > > Kindly give a thought.

> > > >

> > > > Regds

> > > > Pradeep

> > > >

> > > > Group info: vedic-

> > astrology/info.html

> > > >

> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> >

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August 27, 2004

Dear Kalyani,

There is a connection between AK and Navamsha Lagna no doubt, in your

chart. But as you have seen he is bereft of strength, so you perhaps

are not much politically inclined. In so far as Sun as lord of 12th in

debilitation is concerned, I would think it is a boon in disguise. In

2nd he would ,otherwise, have caused much trouble in education and your

communication with others. You could also have had much trouble related

to both head and blood related disease. These effects would be

minimized as he aspects his exaltation sign in 8th as does Mars, who

aspect his own sign in 8th giving you a good health, I would presume.

Your ego would be under control and tongue would not be as harsh as

would have been the case with an Exalted Sun in 2nd house, though some

sting would remain. With a strong Sun as Atmakaraka you might have been

driven to earn money as the burning ambition which would also be curbed

on account of his being debilitated.

At least this is how I would look at your chart. Others more learned

than me might look at it from a different perspective.

Hope this helps.

Chandrashekhar.

astro_learn wrote:

Hello chandrashekhar ji

Is there any literature/Information about Sun being atmakaraka and

Karkamsa and its effect if Sun is also Navmansha Lagnadhipati?

Its really difficult to analyse my chart sometime...

Sun is my atmakaraka but debilited in Rashi chart.

But Navmansh lagna lord is also Sun. And Sun is in 11th house in

gemini.

Also if you see Sun(atmakaraka and navmansh lagna lord) and Rashi

chart lagna lord mercury aspect each other in D-9 in 5/9 axis.

Here what is role of debilited atmakaraka in main chart and How to

analyse such atmakaraka ? I did not find much informatio about Sun

being atmakaraka.. ?

Here are my details

14 Nov 1972

4.22 am

Pune India

I agree that in liturartue, parashara Rishi mentions that Sun

cojoins meeans Sun cojoins atakaraka that does by deafut indicate

sun as atmkarka. Otherwise Parashara rishi would have said clearly

about it.

Regards

Kalyani

vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar

wrote:

> Dear Nitin,

> Read the Sutras just prior to what the Sage has said in Pada 2.

Here he

> defines Various Navamsha becoming Karakamsha on account of housing

the

> Atmakaraka till sutra 13. Again sutra 15 talks about Moon and

Venus

> having to join Karakamsha for one to become wealthy and earn

through

> education as profession. It is not necessary to repeat here that

two

> planets can not become Atmakaraka simultaneously. So in Sutra 15

the

> planets, obviously are not indicative of their being Atma Karaka.

> Therefore when the Sage says Tatra in Sutra 14, one should

understand

> that he means Sun joining Karakamsha housing the Atmakaraka, would

not

> be Sun. Go further to sutra 23 where one getting bitten by snake

is said

> to be the result of Ravi and Rahu joining the Karakamsha. Same

logic

> here too. The difference is that though Ravi joins Karakamsha Rahu

> debilitates him and one gets bitten by snake instead of becoming

either

> fond of public service or political activities. So why strength is

to be

> seen in Navamsha too, in the manner suggested by Parashara for D-

Charts

> should also be clear. For classical reference look at what

Parashara

> says about analysis of Varga charts in the great classic B.P.H.S.

He is

> very clear about how they are to be analyzed. I only quoted his

opinion.

> I trust the meaning is now clear. By the way Parashara does not

> distinguish between the way charts are to be analyzed for strength

of

> planets.

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> Nitin wrote:

>

> > ||| Hare Rama Krishna |||

> >

> > Dear Pradeep,

> >

> > Here is a snapshot of MJUS (translation). Before this

chapter,

the

> > Author describes the AtmaKaraka in different signs.

> >

> > Hope this helps.

> >

> > Nitin.

> >

> > || Namah Shivaaya ||

> >

> > ===================

> >

> > ADHYAYA 1- PADA 2

> >

> > SU. 14.-Tatra ravou rajakaryaparaha. If the Sun occupies the

> > Karakamsa, the person will be fond of public service and will

work in

> > political activities.

> >

> > SU. 15. -Poornendusukrayorbhogee vidyajeevee cha. If Full

Moon

and

> > Venus join Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, the person will command

great

> > wealth and all comforts attendant on wealth and he will also

earn

> > money and live by the profession of education.

> >

> > SU. 16.-Dhatuvadee kountayudho vahnijeevee cha bhoume. When

Kuja

joins

> > Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, the person becomes great in the

preparation

> > of various medical mixtures, will bear arms like kuntayudha

and

other

> > weapons, and live by profession involving preparations in or

near

> > fire.

> >

> > SU. 17.-yanijatantuvayaha silpino vyavaharavidascha soumye.

If

Budha

> > conjoins the Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, the persons become

merchants,

> > weavers and manufacturers of clothes, artists and persons

clever

in

> > preparing curios, and those well versed in the affairs of

social

and

> > political matters.

> >

> > SU. 18.-Kairmagnunanishta vedavidascha jeevay. When Guru

joins

the

> > Navamsa with Atmakaraka, the person will be well versed in

Vedic

or

> > religious rituals, will have religious wisdom, well known in

the

rules

> > of sacrificial functions and will have good knowledge in

Vedanta

and

> > will be a religious man. .

> >

> > SU. 19.-Rajakeeyaha kaminaha satendriyascha sttkre. . If

Sukra

joins

> > the Atmakaraka in the Navamsa, the person will become a great

official

> > or political personage, will be fond of many women and will

retain

> > vitality and sexual passions till he is hundred years old.

> >

> > SU. 20.--Prasiddhakarma jeevaha sanow. If Sani joins

Atmakaraka

in the

> > Navamsa, he will produce a famous person in his own line of

business.

> >

> > SU. 21.-Dhanushkaschouvrascha jangalikalohayantrinascha

rahow.

It Rahu

> > joins the Atmakaraka in Navamsa the person will live by the

skilful

> > use of warlike instruments, he will earn bread as thief and

dacoit; he

> > becomes a doctor dealing in poisons, manufacturer of gold,

silver,

> > copper and other metallic machinery

> >

> > SU. 22.--Gajavyavaharinaschourrascha kethau. 'When Ketu joins

the

> > Atmakaraka in the Navamsa the persons born under such

combination

> > trade in elephants or become thieves and robbers.

> > ===================

> >

> > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> >

> > Thanks for your reply.

> > I understand from your mail that sutras have to be understood

with

> > continuity,content as well as structure wise.

> > In this case after describing about results of AK in various

> > navamshas,the sage is not mentioning about individual results

of

AK.

> > I am seeing only published sutras(internet) ,thus i may be

wrong.

> > Regarding position of karakamsha i understand your point.But

until

> > now i have a feeling that house considerations are not needed

in

> > vargas(other than rashi).

> > I think other vargas are analysed differently.Diety

lordships,Tattawa

> > (friendly,ucha/swa rashis as you have mentioned),lording

quadrants

> > from AL(w.r rashi),not posited in rashis whose lords are

combust

etc.

> > As my knowledge is limited i may request you to guide to any

> > classical reference regarding this.I have read some local

language

> > books,theraswell i can see only references about benefic

navamshas

> > etc.No Kendra,trikona references at all.

> > They have given effects due to various drekkanas etc but

again no

> > house considerations.

> >

> > As the learned members have vast experience i appreciate your

> > guidance.

> >

> > Respect

> > Pradeep

> >

> > Group info: vedic-

astrology/info.html

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> > * Sponsor*

> >

> > click here

> >

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August 28, 2004

Satyam Bruyat Priyam Bruyat

Dear Shri Chandrashekharji,

Thank you for your reply.

I have only associated 8H with reproductive and hidden organs. 8H has Aries sign

which represents head! I was not able to associate blood and hence my query.

Thank you for explaining the logic about AK in 11th from D9 Lagna and 2H in D1.

I had read about AK in 11H showing courage (parakrama). Now I understand the

focus or direction of this parakrama in achieving desires related to house of

its placement! Is this valid only for an aggressive planet like Sun? Would the

interpretation be different if it was an AK like Jupiter or Moon in 11H from D9

Lagna?

Kind regards

Ramesh

Chandrashekhar [boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk]Sent:

Saturday, August 28, 2004 11:42 PMRamesh GangaramaniRe:

[vedic astrology] Re: Doubt regarding KarakamshaDear Ramesh,Draw chart for

Kalyani. You will observe that the 8th house in natal chart receives aspects

of both Mars and Sun. This has to do with the Blood and head problem.In

Navamsha chart observe that Sun is in 11th house. count as many house as Lagna

is away from Sun ahead from the Lagna and you get the 3rd house which is

Parakrama house, hence the desire to earn moneys, since Sun in native chart is

in 2nd as additional supportive factor.I think this should now be

clear.Chandrashekhar.Ramesh Gangaramani wrote:

Satyam Bruyat Priyam Bruyat

Dear Shri Chandrashekharji,

I shall appreciate if you can kindly explain the logic for possible 'head and

blood related disease' and 'Sun as AK creating burning desire to earn money'

had the Sun been stronger!

Kind regards

Ramesh

Chandrashekhar [boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk]Sent:

Saturday, August 28, 2004 12:15 AMastro_learnCc:

vedic astrologySubject: Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Doubt

regarding KarakamshaDear Kalyani,There is a connection between AK and Navamsha

Lagna no doubt, in your chart. But as you have seen he is bereft of strength,

so you perhaps are not much politically inclined. In so far as Sun as lord of

12th in debilitation is concerned, I would think it is a boon in disguise. In

2nd he would ,otherwise, have caused much trouble in education and your

communication with others. You could also have had much trouble related to both

head and blood related disease. These effects would be minimized as he aspects

his exaltation sign in 8th as does Mars, who aspect his own sign in 8th giving

you a good health, I would presume.Your ego would be under control and tongue

would not be as harsh as would have been the case with an Exalted Sun in 2nd

house, though some sting would remain. With a strong Sun as Atmakaraka you

might have been driven to earn money as the burning ambition which would also

be curbed on account of his being debilitated.At least this is how I would look

at your chart. Others more learned than me might look at it from a different

perspective.Hope this helps.Chandrashekhar.astro_learn wrote: