Pt. Rath & other Astrologers... My 2 cents worth. Ci. PVN and Sri. Raman

[Guest guest]

Dear Chi. Narasimha,

 

Self would like to reply to your posting and Sri. Raman's also

starting with a

quote by Sri. Sanjay Rath.

 

 

QUOTE......

 

""None of us has a perfect understanding of

Jyotish and our tools are far from perfect. Some may

be too proud to

accept this, but this is the truth. We are all trying

to improve

constantly. I too have attempted many puzzles before,

some

successfully and some with failure and know the

limitations very

well. Let us show respect for someone for trying and

improve

collectively, rather than criticizing

someone.".............. UNQUOTE

Chi. Narasimha has also written almost same thing sometime back.

 

 

When self took up answering Mr. Poolaat's posting, it was with a view

to read the charts posted by Pt. Rath from a different perspective.

And that is what has been done. It is not an exercise to show someone

in bad light.

 

Chi. Narasimha has given arguement that 10th house denotes King.

May be you have that understanding. But self thinks that 10th house

is KARMASTHANAM/RAJYASTHANAM and it denotes RAJYA and not Raja.

10H denotes karma and not Karta.

King's praja must be seen from the 4th house.

 

Karta/king is be seen from Lagna and lagnadhipati.

Nature of King is to be seen from planets in Lagna.

To run a kingdom, kruratva is very essential in Kaliyug.

Hence presence of Krura Planets in Lagna shows more successful king.

When looking for result of an election, looking at 6th house

is essential as 6H denotes Shatrus/Rivals.

 

You may not agree with anything that is written by self because ways

and means adopted by

self are radically different with what you have been used to seeing.

You have rightly said that my observation of US annual charts is NOT

LOGICAL AT ALL. !!

Astrology by itself defies Logic to scientists and people at large.

 

When a plan of a building is seen,

 

An engineer has a different perspective,

A robber has a different perspective,

A terrorist has a different perspective.

(One looks for strength and others looks for weakness in plan.)

 

A Vastu shastri/Feng-shui practitioner has a different

perspective .... and so on.

 

 

Coming to your observation about Nation,

1st house denotes the Head of the nation,(Karta)

4th house denotes Nation

and 10th house denotes Pentagon/ (In case of USA).

 

If you have your ideas different from self, you are welcome to have

them.

Same thing goes to Grahas and Houses arguement put forth by you.

 

Self treats TP chart/Prasna chart or any aroodha chart with the same

yardstick

and is getting contantly good result.

 

Let us stick to our ways which might differ at many points.

What is important is to find out easier method of prognostication.

 

Tatvam-Asi

 

 

-- In vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"

<pvr@c...> wrote:

> Namaste Sir,

>

> IMHO, your interpretation of US annual charts is not logical at

all. In natal/annual charts of individuals (e.g. competing

politicians), 1st shows the native and 6th shows the rival. That is

perfect. However, in the chart of the nation itself, the 1st house

shows the entire nation and the 6th house shows the rivals/enemies of

the nation. Using the 1st and 6th for the rulers and the opposition

is not at all logical. A nation and its leader are different. US

annual chart belongs to the nation and not just to its leader.

>

> Application of 1st/6th criterion to the Republican nomination chart

is fine. But, applying it to the annual charts of USA is not logical.

>

> The criterion used by Sanjay ji (10th showing rulers and 3rd

showing opposition) is quite logical in mundane astrology.

>

> However, I am not 100% sure if houses should be seen or if graha

arudhas of those house lords would be more appropriate. The 10th

house shows the overall administration experienced by the nation. The

10th lord shows the application of intelligence towards that end.

Always, houses are inanimate and house lords are animate. House lords

show the animated life force (or engine) driving the matters of a

house. Arudhas of house lords show the tangible manifestation of the

driving force, i.e. real people in flesh. If the 10th house in an

annual chart of a nation is bad, administration in a year is poor. If

the 10th lord is bad, the thinking and attitude of the administration

is poor. If the graha arudha of 10th lord is afflicted, it is bad for

the ruler(s).

>

> Arudhas are always tangible things. Arudhas of houses are tangible

inanimate things (e.g. A5 can be an award). Arudhas of house lords

are tangible animated things (i.e. persons).

>

> In any case, I must make one very basic point regarding the

original question raised. With due respect to Sanjay ji and others

involved in this discussion, I must point out the data used is

extremely suspect. Do you honestly think that the USA chart used is

correct? God knows. There are so many versions. Sanjay ji himself

earlier talked about a mundane chart becoming invalid after 144 years

and used the 1920 chart (cast after 144 years from 1776) for timing

the Iraq war. God knows why he still uses the 1776 chart for TP. This

whole approach he outlined in the article quoted is interesting, but

there are too many questions regarding it.

>

> In general, it is wise to use data that we are confident of. This

includes natal charts of leaders, nomination acceptance charts,

lunar/solar new year charts and lunar/solar eclipse charts.

Independence charts of nations are usually suspect. USA chart is the

worst (i.e. most controversial) in that respect.

>

> May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> Narasimha

>

> > Dear Mr. Poolaat,

> >

> > Knowledge of self is very limited . But simple principles read in

> > simple manner give true picture.

> >

> > Only thing that self always considers in win/lose contests or

> > elections is,Take 1st house and 6th house as two contestants.

> > (7th house may be considered as opposition but it does not apply

in

> > contests )

> >

> > One must take contestants as enemies.

> > Hence take 6th lord as opposit of 1st lord.

> > Now see if 1st house has more number of Natural Krura planets

like

> > Mars, Saturn Rahu Sun etc.

> > If Lagna has them and 6th lord is either Shubha graha or 6th lord

is

> > weak etc, or if 6th house is rendered powerless by papakartari

yoga

> > etc , then the candidate signifying Lagna will win.

> >

> > 1st case,

> >

> > Lets take the case of REPUBLICAN NOMINATION CHART as displayed in

the

> > above mentioned article, you will note that Lagna has Rahu and

Moon

> > whereas 6th house is occupied by Guru which is rendered weak by

> > Papakartari yoga.This much is enough to indicate Democrat

candidate

> > will lose.Hence Bush won the election.

> >

> > 2nd case of 2001 election,

> >

> > 2000 TP chart clearly shows 6th house is more powerful than

> > ascendent . Saturn and Jupiter are in 6th and Lagna is having no

> > planets. Lagna lord is in 6th with Saturn. 6th lord venus is with

> > Sun, Mercury and Mars, thus Bush had an upper hand . So Democrats

> > were pushed out at the end from white house.

> >

> > 3rd case

> >

> > Take 1996 election.

> > Apply the rule and you will notice that Lagna has Mars and is

fully

> > aspected by Saturn from 11th house.

> > 6th lord Venus has surrendered in Lagna . 6th house has no

planets .

> > Sitting president Bill clinton won the re-election easily.

> >

> > Do one needs to prove this more?

> >

> > If Gurus have suggestions/corrections , please correct the

> > undersigned.

> >

> > Tatvam-Asi

> >

> > > Dear astrologers,

> > >

> > > Could anybody share his view points as what is the wrong in the

> > > following prediction:

> > >

> > > http://parasara.blogspot.com/

> > >

> > > Really the approach of prediction in the above is new and very

> > > impressive.Please treat this for learning , not for any

criticisims.

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > > Poolaat.

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Tatwam asi ji

 

I am no scholar to question the views expressed by scholars like you

and Shri Narashima Rao ji.

Kindly treat this as doubts.

 

Pandit Sanjay Rath's words do reveal the humility and flexibility

that every astrologer should strive for. Respect for him as fixed

realms is no help towards the unfolding of any knowledge.Knowledge

is dynamic and not static.

 

Division three(drekkana) represnts Siblings.Thus 3 houses after our

lagna represents our younger siblings as they are born later.

Similarly 3 houses prior to lagna(11th house) represent our elder

siblings as they arrived earlier.

 

Division 2 (Hora) represents wealth.Thus 2nd house represents the

resources we have in possession while 12th house( second prior to

lagna), represent the resources which have been used up.

 

Division 4 (chathuramsha) represents environment ,properties,

happiness(manasukha etc). Thus 4th house represents our home or

the environment which is closer to us, having relevance and relation

after our birth as far as we are concerned and providing the said

happiness.

 

10th house represent 4 houses prior to our birth in other words the

environment which has been existing before, providing happiness at a

macro level or in other words the society.

 

Karmas are evaluated in a relative fashion, ie our actions with

respect to other members of society.For the same reason 10th house

is Karma sthana or the playing field for exercising ones actions.

 

Thus my understanding takes 4th house as home or palace or

throne.Fourth lord represents the owner of it? Thus 4th house, the

planets there and 4th lord will show the nature of throne and kind of

throne.

 

Thus I believe 10th house represents Karma sthana or society.Kindly

correct me.

 

Thanks & Regds

Pradeep

 

 

vedic astrology, "nameisego" <nameisego>

wrote:

>

>

> Dear Chi. Narasimha,

>

> Self would like to reply to your posting and Sri. Raman's also

> starting with a

> quote by Sri. Sanjay Rath.

>

>

> QUOTE......

>

> ""None of us has a perfect understanding of

> Jyotish and our tools are far from perfect. Some may

> be too proud to

> accept this, but this is the truth. We are all trying

> to improve

> constantly. I too have attempted many puzzles before,

> some

> successfully and some with failure and know the

> limitations very

> well. Let us show respect for someone for trying and

> improve

> collectively, rather than criticizing

> someone.".............. UNQUOTE

> Chi. Narasimha has also written almost same thing sometime back.

>

>

> When self took up answering Mr. Poolaat's posting, it was with a

view

> to read the charts posted by Pt. Rath from a different perspective.

> And that is what has been done. It is not an exercise to show

someone

> in bad light.

>

> Chi. Narasimha has given arguement that 10th house denotes King.

> May be you have that understanding. But self thinks that 10th

house

> is KARMASTHANAM/RAJYASTHANAM and it denotes RAJYA and not Raja.

> 10H denotes karma and not Karta.

> King's praja must be seen from the 4th house.

>

> Karta/king is be seen from Lagna and lagnadhipati.

> Nature of King is to be seen from planets in Lagna.

> To run a kingdom, kruratva is very essential in Kaliyug.

> Hence presence of Krura Planets in Lagna shows more successful

king.

> When looking for result of an election, looking at 6th house

> is essential as 6H denotes Shatrus/Rivals.

>

> You may not agree with anything that is written by self because

ways

> and means adopted by

> self are radically different with what you have been used to

seeing.

> You have rightly said that my observation of US annual charts is

NOT

> LOGICAL AT ALL. !!

> Astrology by itself defies Logic to scientists and people at large.

>

> When a plan of a building is seen,

>

> An engineer has a different perspective,

> A robber has a different perspective,

> A terrorist has a different perspective.

> (One looks for strength and others looks for weakness in plan.)

>

> A Vastu shastri/Feng-shui practitioner has a different

> perspective .... and so on.

>

>

> Coming to your observation about Nation,

> 1st house denotes the Head of the nation,(Karta)

> 4th house denotes Nation

> and 10th house denotes Pentagon/ (In case of USA).

>

> If you have your ideas different from self, you are welcome to

have

> them.

> Same thing goes to Grahas and Houses arguement put forth by you.

>

> Self treats TP chart/Prasna chart or any aroodha chart with the

same

> yardstick

> and is getting contantly good result.

>

> Let us stick to our ways which might differ at many points.

> What is important is to find out easier method of prognostication.

>

> Tatvam-Asi

>

>

> -- In vedic astrology, "Narasimha P.V.R. Rao"

> <pvr@c...> wrote:

> > Namaste Sir,

> >

> > IMHO, your interpretation of US annual charts is not logical at

> all. In natal/annual charts of individuals (e.g. competing

> politicians), 1st shows the native and 6th shows the rival. That

is

> perfect. However, in the chart of the nation itself, the 1st house

> shows the entire nation and the 6th house shows the rivals/enemies

of

> the nation. Using the 1st and 6th for the rulers and the

opposition

> is not at all logical. A nation and its leader are different. US

> annual chart belongs to the nation and not just to its leader.

> >

> > Application of 1st/6th criterion to the Republican nomination

chart

> is fine. But, applying it to the annual charts of USA is not

logical.

> >

> > The criterion used by Sanjay ji (10th showing rulers and 3rd

> showing opposition) is quite logical in mundane astrology.

> >

> > However, I am not 100% sure if houses should be seen or if graha

> arudhas of those house lords would be more appropriate. The 10th

> house shows the overall administration experienced by the nation.

The

> 10th lord shows the application of intelligence towards that end.

> Always, houses are inanimate and house lords are animate. House

lords

> show the animated life force (or engine) driving the matters of a

> house. Arudhas of house lords show the tangible manifestation of

the

> driving force, i.e. real people in flesh. If the 10th house in an

> annual chart of a nation is bad, administration in a year is poor.

If

> the 10th lord is bad, the thinking and attitude of the

administration

> is poor. If the graha arudha of 10th lord is afflicted, it is bad

for

> the ruler(s).

> >

> > Arudhas are always tangible things. Arudhas of houses are

tangible

> inanimate things (e.g. A5 can be an award). Arudhas of house lords

> are tangible animated things (i.e. persons).

> >

> > In any case, I must make one very basic point regarding the

> original question raised. With due respect to Sanjay ji and others

> involved in this discussion, I must point out the data used is

> extremely suspect. Do you honestly think that the USA chart used

is

> correct? God knows. There are so many versions. Sanjay ji himself

> earlier talked about a mundane chart becoming invalid after 144

years

> and used the 1920 chart (cast after 144 years from 1776) for

timing

> the Iraq war. God knows why he still uses the 1776 chart for TP.

This

> whole approach he outlined in the article quoted is interesting,

but

> there are too many questions regarding it.

> >

> > In general, it is wise to use data that we are confident of.

This

> includes natal charts of leaders, nomination acceptance charts,

> lunar/solar new year charts and lunar/solar eclipse charts.

> Independence charts of nations are usually suspect. USA chart is

the

> worst (i.e. most controversial) in that respect.

> >

> > May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> > Narasimha

> >

> > > Dear Mr. Poolaat,

> > >

> > > Knowledge of self is very limited . But simple principles read

in

> > > simple manner give true picture.

> > >

> > > Only thing that self always considers in win/lose contests or

> > > elections is,Take 1st house and 6th house as two contestants.

> > > (7th house may be considered as opposition but it does not

apply

> in

> > > contests )

> > >

> > > One must take contestants as enemies.

> > > Hence take 6th lord as opposit of 1st lord.

> > > Now see if 1st house has more number of Natural Krura planets

> like

> > > Mars, Saturn Rahu Sun etc.

> > > If Lagna has them and 6th lord is either Shubha graha or 6th

lord

> is

> > > weak etc, or if 6th house is rendered powerless by papakartari

> yoga

> > > etc , then the candidate signifying Lagna will win.

> > >

> > > 1st case,

> > >

> > > Lets take the case of REPUBLICAN NOMINATION CHART as displayed

in

> the

> > > above mentioned article, you will note that Lagna has Rahu and

> Moon

> > > whereas 6th house is occupied by Guru which is rendered weak

by

> > > Papakartari yoga.This much is enough to indicate Democrat

> candidate

> > > will lose.Hence Bush won the election.

> > >

> > > 2nd case of 2001 election,

> > >

> > > 2000 TP chart clearly shows 6th house is more powerful than

> > > ascendent . Saturn and Jupiter are in 6th and Lagna is having

no

> > > planets. Lagna lord is in 6th with Saturn. 6th lord venus is

with

> > > Sun, Mercury and Mars, thus Bush had an upper hand . So

Democrats

> > > were pushed out at the end from white house.

> > >

> > > 3rd case

> > >

> > > Take 1996 election.

> > > Apply the rule and you will notice that Lagna has Mars and is

> fully

> > > aspected by Saturn from 11th house.

> > > 6th lord Venus has surrendered in Lagna . 6th house has no

> planets .

> > > Sitting president Bill clinton won the re-election easily.

> > >

> > > Do one needs to prove this more?

> > >

> > > If Gurus have suggestions/corrections , please correct the

> > > undersigned.

> > >

> > > Tatvam-Asi

> > >

> > > > Dear astrologers,

> > > >

> > > > Could anybody share his view points as what is the wrong in

the

> > > > following prediction:

> > > >

> > > > http://parasara.blogspot.com/

> > > >

> > > > Really the approach of prediction in the above is new and

very

> > > > impressive.Please treat this for learning , not for any

> criticisims.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Regards,

> > > >

> > > > Poolaat.

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Looks like you are offended. I did not mean to offend you. When you said the

rulers and the opposition party are seen from 1st and 6th in a nation's chart,

I did not realize that you had your own set of meanings for all houses. I said

it was not logical, based on the standard accepted meanings. I am sorry if you

are offended.

 

However, the fact remains that your meanings are not the accepted meanings. This

must be your own research like your "Rahu-centric" theory.

 

Normally, we consider the 10th house as the Indra sthana, 1st house as Prajapati

sthana, 7th house as Shiva sthana, 9th house as Vishnu sthana and so on. This is

not my research, but based on the teachings of elders.

 

Each individual is a microcosmic representation of the universe (macrocosm).

There is a "Prajapati" within each of us. He is respeonsible for creating

various gods and demons within us (our good and bad qualities). He is

responsible for re-vitalizing/creating thousands of cells within our body

everyday. This is why, a strong lagna/lagna lord is necessary for good health,

intelligence and good character.

 

When you are looking at a nation, it makes sense to see its king from Indra

sthana rather than Prajapati sthana. BTW, with your approach, if the 6th house

shows the internal opponents of the leader of the nation, which house shows the

external enemies of the nation (like Al Qaeda, Iraq etc in the case of USA)? The

9th house?

 

You are free to pursue what sounds logical to you. But I am most happy with the

teachings of Sages and see no need to deviate in the name of research.

 

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

 

> Coming to your observation about Nation,> 1st house denotes the Head of the

nation,(Karta)> 4th house denotes Nation > and 10th house denotes Pentagon/ (In

case of USA).> > If you have your ideas different from self, you are welcome to

have > them.> Same thing goes to Grahas and Houses arguement put forth by you.>

> Self treats TP chart/Prasna chart or any aroodha chart with the same >

yardstick > and is getting contantly good result.> > Let us stick to our ways

which might differ at many points.> What is important is to find out easier

method of prognostication.> > Tatvam-Asi