2nd house Jup in various roles--Lakshmi ji ,Dual nature of Guru

September 24, 2004

Hello Lakshmiji,

True ....all planets show dual nature.

But most of you do not want to give any negetive character to Guru's

role as a lier, spoiler of a bhava, pain giver , manipulator

hypersexed pervert of intellectual kind, plagiarist and egoist .

People are prepared to walk ten miles to gather arguements giving

different reasons for spoilage of the bhava occupied by Guru but are

not prepared to accept Guru as main reason for spoiling the bhava

where he sits.

Tatvam-Asi

vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh

<b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:

> Om Gurave Namah

>

> Namaste Pradeep,

>

> Thanks for your information. There is no doubt that Jupiter as 6th

lord (moolatrikona) does damage Julia's 2nd house (that's his job in

the chart), but if the 2nd lord sun and moon were stronger and Venus

dignified, the scenario would have been different.

>

> Sri Tattwam-Asi was talking about the dual nature of Jupiter. If

we look deeper we know it to be true of all planets. Infact there are

lot of differences between the same Jupiter of cancer, Sagittarius,

Pisces and Capricorn ! Why only these four, nature will change

according to the tattwa of Rasi, functionality of house etc etc. So

is the case with all the other planets too.

>

> Regards,

> Lakshmi

>

> vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:

> Dear Lakshmi Ji Namaste

>

> Yes the houses which you have mentioned do need to be

considered.But

> taking into consideration of sthala, Kaala & Saaahacharya ,in a

> western society, relationships are more or less like family

matters.

> Thus they can very well fall under second house matters,too.

Anyways

> she had multiple marriages, even if we want to ignore affairs.

>

> Looking at her 4th house, one could imagine about her mana sukha.

> Especially as Sun is there and more so due to his debilitation.I am

> not ruling out the role sun has played here.But there is a

> parivartana between 2nd & 4th lords as well. Jupiter is not very

> specific about all the concerned matters, related to his house of

> residence. Jupiter in my opinion is a planet behaving in a very

> broad manner - broad advises, broad knowledge, broad outlook,

> benevolent, magnanimous etc. If you observe people with high

> jupiterian influence ,you may find this.While Venus is the

> reverse,he is very particular about the finer aspects ,whether it

> is arts,love,or anyother.Thus Jupiter tends to over look certain

> aspects,which he considers as insignificant, thereby leading to

> Bhrashta(as learned members have pointed out).

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

> vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh

> <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:

> > Om Gurave Namah

> >

> > Namaste Pradeep,

> >

> > When you are talking about affairs, don't you look at 7th house

> also? And the 3rd since 3, 7 and 11 constitute the kaama trikona?

> Why it can't be the influence of weak 11 th lord Venus placed in

> 2nd house (it is also the house of attraction) indicative of such

> behaviour and Jupiter as the expansive planet & the lord of

shadripu

> (6th house) could have encouraged "vriddhi" !! And, since Venus is

> also the 4th lord & moon is also involved (the two planets

connected

> with the 2nd house in natural zodiac), her family suffered.

> >

> > By the way, where is her Sun?

> >

> > Regards,

> > Lakshmi

> >

> > vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:

> > Dear Ms.Reema

> >

> > One thing that needs to be observed at first glance ,from Julias

> > chart is the planets in 2nd house. The simplest way to get a

> general

> > overview of a chart w.r to finance,is to look for a link between

> > lakshmisthanas & inflow ,outflow houses.When lagna is involved

the

> > effects are pronounced.(1,5,9,11,2).

> > In her case 11th lord Venus,9th lord Jupiter, and lagna lord moon

> are

> > placed in 2nd.Mars the fifth lord is in the house of 9th lord

> > (jupiter) and aspected by him.A connection between all money

> > houses.Thus this simple technique, outlines the presence of an

> > inherent big promise.(the strength of these have to be

reconfirmed

> > with amsha positions,shadbala,karakas,ashtakavarga of inflow and

> > balance houses etc).

> >

> > Now coming to family and affairs - She had relationships(publicly

> > known)atleast with dozen men,and married multiple times.Do we

need

> a

> > better proof regarding one of the indications being harmed?.Since

> > money indications were strong otherwise,family matters suffered.

> >

> > This does not mean Guru is a malefic or a harmer,rather one may

> > storm their brains and understand what is the nature of Guru and

> how

> > he behaves.Various posts so far from learned members holds the

> > reason for sthanabhrashta.Guru is the greatest benefic,but

benefit

> > for what/whom is to observed from case to case.

> >

> > Thanks

> > Pradeep

> >

> > vedic astrology, "reema_sriganesh"

> > <reema_sriganesh> wrote:

> > > Namaste Chandrashekharji,

> > >

> > > Sure. Below are the details of the charts I was referring to in

> my

> > > original email.

> > >

> > > 1) My mother

> > >

> > > 03/18/1946

> > > Time: 11:58:40 AM (5:30 East of GMT)

> > > Place: 75E06, 23N18

> > >

> > > All her three children (2 sons, 1 daughter) love and respect

her

> > the

> > > most in life.

> > >

> > > 2) Julia Roberts

> > >

> > > 10/28/1967

> > > Time: 0:16 AM (5:00 West of GMT)

> > > Place: 84W23, 33N44

> > >

> > > She is a rich hollywood actress. I am not sure about her family

> > > background, although, I believe she's had multiple marriages.

> > >

> > > 3) Dhirubhai Ambani

> > >

> > > 12/28/1932

> > > Time: 7:35:20 (5:30 East of GMT)

> > > Place: 70E26, 20N53

> > >

> > > He was a very successful industrialist. Worked very hard all

his

> > life

> > > and had a good social standing.

> > >

> > > 4) Donald Trump

> > >

> > > 6/14/1946

> > > Time: 9:51:00 (5:00 West of GMT)

> > > Place: 73W52, 40N43

> > >

> > > A new york billionaire; I believe he has good relations with

his

> > > family (except probably ex-wives, who made a lot of money from

> him

> > as

> > > part of their divorce settlements)

> > >

> > > 5) John Kerry

> > >

> > > 12/11/1943

> > > Time: 7:12:00 (7:00 West of GMT)

> > > Place: 104W59, 39N44

> > >

> > > Democratic presidential nominee. Has had a very successful

> career

> > > throughout in politics and a good social standing.

> > >

> > > 6) Ralph Nader

> > >

> > > 02/27/1934

> > > Time: 4:52:00 (5:00 West of GMT)

> > > Place: 73W4, 41N55

> > >

> > > Is a presidential candidate for the fourth time. Throughout his

> > life

> > > he has been a successful activist/lawyer against corporations

> that

> > > pollute environment/create hazards. Btw, I made a mistake with

> > this

> > > chart. When I opened the chart while drafting my original mail,

> I

> > did

> > > not realize that I had Raman ayanamsa set in JHL, wherein vakri

> > Guru

> > > is in 10th in tula. Now that I have changed the ayanamsa back

to

> > > Lahiri, Guru is in 9th house in kanya. Regardless, the

> > significations

> > > of 9th house do not seem to have been harmed. Although he is a

> > very

> > > private person, he publicly credits his father for "sparking

his

> > > interest in public affairs". His parents immigrated from

Lebanon

> > to

> > > the US, and usually, immigrant kids from the east tend to

> respect

> > > their hard working parents. But again, I do not want us to

> assume

> > his

> > > relationship with father (good or bad), without further details.

> > >

> > > 7) Sachin Tendulkar

> > >

> > > 04/24/1973

> > > Time: 16:27:55 (5:30 East of GMT)

> > > Place: 72E50, 18N58

> > >

> > > A very famous sportsman (cricket) with two adoring kids (son

and

> a

> > > daughter).

> > >

> > > Chandrashekharji, I hope I provided you with all the requisite

> > > details. Please let me know if you need any further information

> on

> > > the life of the above natives.

> > >

> > > May Sri Vishnu bless us all.

> > > Reema.

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar

> > <boxdel>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Dear Reema,

> > > > Would you kindly post the charts you refer to with brief life

> > > sketch of

> > > > each of the Jataka? Is none of the indications of the Bhava

> Guru

> > > > occupies damaged? This information would certainly help look

> at

> > the

> > > > dictum in right perspective.

> > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > >

> > > > reema_sriganesh wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Namaste everyone,

> > > > >

> > > > > I have a chart where vakri Guru (alone) in 5th in tula have

> > given

> > > the

> > > > > native two good sons. I also have a chart where Guru

> > (conjoined

> > > with

> > > > > chandra and shukra) is in 2nd house in simha, and the

native

> > is a

> > > > > multi-millionaire. I have a third chart where Guru is in

> kanya

> > > > > (alone) in 10th and the native was a big industrialist. I

> have

> > a

> > > > > fourth chart where vakri Guru is in kanya (alone) in 2nd

> house

> > and

> > > > > the native is a billionaire. I have a fifth chart where

Guru

> > is in

> > > > > simha (alone) in 10th house and the native presently stands

> a

> > good

> > > > > chance of occupying the highest office in United States. I

> > have a

> > > > > sixth chart where Guru is in tula (alone) in 10th house and

> the

> > > > > native has been a US presidential candidate for 4 times. I

> > have a

> > > > > seventh chart where Guru is conjoined Mangal in Makara in

> 5th

> > > house

> > > > > and the native is a father of two children (son and

> daughter).

> > > > >

> > > > > I am sure that if all of us were to go through the charts

in

> > our

> > > > > collection, we would find so many of them where Guru's

> > occupation

> > > of

> > > > > a bhava could not have made the native as successful in the

> > > > > respective areas of life, if we were to go by the theory of

> > Guru

> > > > > spoiling the occupied bhava.

> > > > >

> > > > > Therefore, without taking sides, I would like to urge

further

> > > > > research on this theory of Guru hurting the house he

> occupies,

> > > before

> > > > > coming to any conclusions.

> > > > >

> > > > > May Sri Vishnu bless us all,

> > > > > Reema.

> > > > >

> > > > > vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh

> > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekharji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Could you please tell me from which purana the quoted

> lines

> > were

> > > > > taken?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have not read chamatkar chintamani, so I can not

really

> > > comment

> > > > > on it. But with all due respects to the author, Parasara

> often

> > > thinks

> > > > > differently. Frankly, my adherence to Parasara and my

> > admiration

> > > for

> > > > > the great master, who thought of a million profound ways to

> > > > > elevate /promote Jyotish as a spiritual science rather than

> as

> > a

> > > > > chamatkar, is infinitely higher.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Coming to Bhagavan Sri Rama's chart, we know that the

> > powerful

> > > > > sarpa yoga, aspect of Saturn and Mars (in marana karana

> > sthana) on

> > > > > lagna are as responsible, if not more, for his troubled

> times

> > as

> > > the

> > > > > exalted 6th&9th lord jupiter in lagna and exalted venus

> (4th

> > &

> > > 11th

> > > > > lord in 9th). Now, if we want to ignore all this

> information,

> > and

> > > > > want only to selectively assess the chart by focusing on

> > Jupiter

> > > in

> > > > > lagna, I think we are not being true either to the Veda

> vidya

> > or

> > > to

> > > > > ourselves. I think, here something greater than ourselves,

> our

> > > petty

> > > > > discussions and fragile egos is at stake. The Truth is

> > revealed

> > > to us

> > > > > through 12 houses and 9 planets. Instead, if we want to

look

> > at

> > > only

> > > > > one house and only one planet, I think we are doing our

best

> > not

> > > to

> > > > > elicit the truth, but to eclipse it. Please tell me, Sir,

> > > honestly

> > > > > do you, with your formidable intellectual stature, limit

> > yourself

> > > > > thus and not adopt an integrated approach for evaluating a

> > chart?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As far as Duryodhana's chart is concerned, My tentative

> > feeling

> > > is

> > > > > that he had Jupiter debilitated in 10th for aries lagna,

> with

> > > Mars in

> > > > > lagna, Rahu in Taurus, Venus & Mercury in gemini, sun in

> > > cancer,

> > > > > Ketu in scorpio, moon in Satabhisham (aquarius) along with

> > saturn.

> > > > > How is it? If any one has more information, it would be fun

> to

> > > > > discuss it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have not thought about other charts. But if someone

else

> > had,

> > > I

> > > > > would like to see them.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sarajit Poddar <sarajit@s...> wrote:|| Jaya Jagannath ||

> > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thank you for the comment from the puranas.

> > > > > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in

> > Lagna,

> > > > > Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested

> Satwa

> > of

> > > > > King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face

> > Cheerharana.

> > > > > Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru

> > killed

> > > > > Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It

> > further

> > > says

> > > > > that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in

> > 2nd,

> > > King

> > > > > Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account

> of

> > > Guru

> > > > > in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on

> > > account of

> > > > > Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables

> > > (Abhakshya)

> > > > > on account of his Guru in 9th."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > Sarajit

> > > > > > -

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > PNRazdan

> > > > > > Cc: Prafulla Gang ; vedic astrology

> > > > > > Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:00 AM

> > > > > > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup in

> various

> > > roles--

> > > > > to Chandraji

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Razdan,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion of Narada

> in

> > > Ghatika

> > > > > Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of the learned (not

Brahma)

> in

> > > > > shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. First shloka of Bhava

> Pada

> > > Adhyaya

> > > > > again mentions that he is telling the special effects of

> Pada

> > as

> > > told

> > > > > by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also mentions

> opinion

> > of

> > > > > others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great Sage

has

> in

> > > > > almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds in one

or

> > > other of

> > > > > the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to Sage

> > Parashara

> > > in

> > > > > the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of that

> > > Adhyaya

> > > > > Maitreya clearly says that Parashara has given opinions of

> many

> > > > > Rishis and Acharyas. So saying that Parashara only told

what

> > had

> > > been

> > > > > revealed to him by Lord Brahma would be showing disrespect

> to

> > the

> > > > > Great sage who had the magnanimity to give credit to other

> > Rishis

> > > and

> > > > > Acharyas.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Since you are questioning veracity and authority of the

> > shlokas

> > > > > that I quoted, I would like to give you the Texts in which

> the

> > > > > shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka and

Chamatkaar

> > > > > Chintamani you will find them. The first text has the

> shlokas

> > and

> > > the

> > > > > later again mentions same shlokas. If you read Chamatkar

> > > Chintamani

> > > > > further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least one

> > > indication

> > > > > of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also mentions

a

> > > shloka

> > > > > from Purana which says:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in

> > Lagna,

> > > > > Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested

> Satwa

> > of

> > > > > King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face

> > Cheerharana.

> > > > > Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru

> > killed

> > > > > Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It

> > further

> > > says

> > > > > that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in

> > 2nd,

> > > King

> > > > > Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on account

> of

> > > Guru

> > > > > in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife on

> > > account of

> > > > > Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables

> > > (Abhakshya)

> > > > > on account of his Guru in 9th."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I would not like to respond to your other comments but

> would

> > > like

> > > > > to mention here that the group is formed with an intention

of

> > > > > learning and discussing principles of astrology. I do not

> > >

> > > > > to your assumption of astrology being a rigid science not

> open

> > to

> > > > > interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled for.

> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > PNRazdan wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Chandarshekhar,There is nothing amusing in my

> reasoning.

> > > > > Parashara is quoting noordinary Muni but Lord Brahma

himself

> > which

> > > > > gave us the BPHS.SimilarlyPrithuysas is quoting his father

> the

> > > great

> > > > > Vrahmihir which gave us theHorasastra. Equating your

shaloka

> > > quoting

> > > > > a nameless sage (not sages asI said earlier, but only one

> sage-

> > I

> > > was

> > > > > incorrect because the noun andverb is singular) would be

> like

> > > showing

> > > > > candle to the Sun.I dont think this discussion is going to

> > serve

> > > any

> > > > > purpose. You are notprepared to reveal the origin of the

> > shalok

> > > you

> > > > > are so much dependingupon. By now it seems it is something

> > > casually

> > > > > said to which I attachedmore than necessary importance. You

> > seem

> > > to

> > > > > have attained the role ofsome sort of a master in this

group

> > > wanting

> > > > > your disciples to hunt forthemselves what you hint at. But

I

> > dont

> > > > > think this is an Ashram. Thisis a forum of discussion where

> an

> > > > > academic discussion takes placeopenly without reservations.

> Or

> > > > > possibly there may be other reasons foryou not to come out

> > > > > > openly.The moral of this story however is clear.

> Astrology

> > is a

> > > > > science. Ithas a method. Under this method several books

> have

> > all

> > > > > along treatedJup as a benefic planet and all

interpretations

> > are

> > > > > based on thisprinciple with modifications depending on its

> > > > > functionality, place,lordship, strength etc etc. If you now

> > put

> > > forth

> > > > > a crazy idea thatJupiter is a malefic or malefic like

planet

> (

> > > > > destroys the house it isplaced in), it turns the science

> from a

> > > > > method into a madness. It willput doubts into the minds of

> all

> > > > > astrologists while interpreting itseffects, particularly on

> > young

> > > > > minds aspiring to learn jyotish. AlreadyI see a discussion

> > > started on

> > > > > these lines on this group which in myopinion is energy

> wasted

> > on a

> > > > > wrong notion. Everytime one sees Jup in ahouse, a doubt

will

> > > arise as

> > > > > to whether it is good or bad. Some willassociate it with

> good

> > they

> > > > > had in that house and others with whateverbad they had.So

if

> > you

> > > are

> > > > > determined to reap cheap publicity by making

> > > radical,unauthenticated

> > > > > and

> > > > > > unconventional "advices", you may do so as this isa free

> > forum.

> > > > > But the least I can say is that this would be thegreatest

> > > disservice

> > > > > to the field of Vedic Astrology.My humble suggestion to

> learned

> > > > > members would be to accept any advice only after their own

> > study

> > > and

> > > > > research and use dependable commentatorslike Raman, Rao

> etc.for

> > > > > clarifications. It would be fair to treat anyadvice

> seriously

> > > only if

> > > > > it is backed up by its source so as to makeindependent

> > > verification

> > > > > possible unless the author says it to be hisown research/

> > > experience.

> > > > > Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this discussion

> as

> > > friends

> > > > > (not by coincidence are we both having Jup as lagnesh).So

> far I

> > > > > didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a

> > > > > headlinesdiscussion. Let me now respond to your last two

> > > queries.The

> > > > > reference to Jup in theSecond house discussion of BPHS has

> to

> > be

> > > read

> > > > > in totality i.e all thethree shalokas 1,2 and 3 and not the

> > 3rd

> > > only.

> > > > > Let me give a gist ofeach hereFirst shaloka: Dhanesh in

> second,

> > > > > > quadrants, trines is dhanvridhikarak(wealth giving) in

> > 6,8,12

> > > > > opposite.Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house, conjunct or

> > > aspected

> > > > > bybenefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house opposite

> > effect.

> > > > > Nowhereis jupiter separated out as you claim to be.So long

> as

> > it

> > > is

> > > > > known as abenefic, it qualifies to be a wealth giver

> according

> > to

> > > > > this shaloka.Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter and is

> also

> > > > > posited in the samehouse. And if Mars is also placed with

> it,

> > then

> > > > > the subject becomeswealthy. Period.This does not mean that

> if

> > > Mars is

> > > > > not there, Jupiter alone will harmthe house. This is an

> > > implication

> > > > > which you are trying to make outprobably to make your

Muni's

> > > dictum

> > > > > hold good. Parashara never meansit. He means to say that

> > while a

> > > > > swagrahi jupiter in second is enoughto make one rich but

> with

> > Mars

> > > > > there it adds to ones wealth. Mark thesanskrit words "Vapi"

> > > > > meaning 'in addition".And then you are contradicting your

> own

> > self

> > > > > since even without Mars,Jupiter would still be swagrahi

> which

> > as

> > > per

> > > > > > your shaloka is not bad.So why Mars becomes necessary to

> > > support?

> > > > > As regards your second point, I am unfortunately not getting

> > > > > theshaloka since I have a different edition. There is no

> > chapter

> > > > > onKakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay which has

> no

> > > > > shalokwanting Jup to have support of benefics to give good

> > > > > results.Sorry for the long mail. RegardsPran Razdan---

> > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > <boxdel> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Razdan,I am amused at the reasoning put forward by

> you

> > > that if

> > > > > some author quotes some other authority, he is not an

> > authority on

> > > > > the subject.If that be so all those you treat as

authorities,

> > > > > including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have not

> heard

> > of

> > > > > Mantracharya) would alsobe reduced to the status of

> ignoramus.

> > > All of

> > > > > those who are treated as authorities have given opinions of

> > > others by

> > > > > either referring totheir names or saying precisely what the

> > shloka

> > > > > says that is "so sayMunis". So rest assured none of the

> > Acharyas

> > > and

> > > > > Pravartakas will tremble at what I have stated. The reason

I

> > am

> > > not

> > > > > giving the name of theauthority is I want people to read

> > various

> > > > > texts and find out for themselves. There are numerous texts

> > and it

> > > > > takes time to remember the name of author of each and every

> > shloka

> > > > > one quotes is the other reason.If you do not want to read

> > > > > commentaries, your choice of astrological texts would be

> > reduced

> > > to

> > > > > almost one or two as every author of note, states at the

> > beginning

> > > > > > of his text that he is only telling whatothers have told

> > before

> > > > > him in a more concise form, including Varaha

Mihira.Maitreya

> > also

> > > > > asks Parashara that as he has till now told principlesof

> > > astrology on

> > > > > the basis of what others have told he should give a

> relatively

> > > easy

> > > > > method so that transit of planets could be used for

> prediction

> > by

> > > > > those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga

> > inBPHS.Could

> > > you

> > > > > explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS? What

isthe

> > > reason

> > > > > for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord of the 2nd

> when

> > > placed

> > > > > in 2nd or needing to be with Mars there to make one

wealthy,

> > > implying

> > > > > that Jupiter in other cases by its mere presence in

2ndwould

> > not

> > > be

> > > > > capable of conferring wealth on one. I hope you do not

> > > > > disputeknowledge of Parashara himself or think he is quoting

> > > > > withoutauthority. While at BPHS you may also like to reason

> > out

> > > why

> > > > > CH.43 shloka 48tells that for Jupiter to give Kakshya

Vridhi

> > it

> > > has

> > > > > to be aspected by a benefic when in Lagna or 7th house.

> Think

> > why

> > > > > > Jupiter by himself doesnot give Kakshya Vriddhi in

> > > > > longevity.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Chandarshekhar,As already informed I have already

> read

> > the

> > > > > shalok quoted by you insupport of your contention. jIv>

> > SvSwanhNta

> > > > > vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta,saEir SvSwanpal> prmÉykir +iòrSy

> > > ànòa.But

> > > > > please understand, this shaloka by itself does not establish

> > > > > thethesis you are trying to put forward. It has to be

backed

> > up by

> > > > > theauthor, his standing in the astrological field, the time

> > when

> > > it

> > > > > wassaid and the context in which it was said. Literally

> > > translated,

> > > > > theShalok means "Guru destroys the house it is placed in and

> > > > > dignifies

> > > > > >

> > > > > > the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > house it aspects, so say the sages. Saturn protects the

> > house it

> > > > > is

> > > > > >

> > > > > > in

> > > > > >

> > > > > > while its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the

> > > words "vdit

> > > > > >

> > > > > > muinvra"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i.e.so say the sages. This means that this shaloka too is

> > > > > somebodyelse's quote and not that of its author. Who is the

> > > author of

> > > > > thisblatant theory after all?Chandarshekharji, you are

> making

> > an

> > > > > important and revolutionarystatement which if followed

shall

> > > change

> > > > > the entire structure of

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Vedic

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir, Mantracharya

all

> > > > > must

> > > > > >

> > > > > > have

> > > > > >

> > > > > > stumbled in swargloka after hearing this shaloka). You

> > have

> > > > > >

> > > > > > therefore

> > > > > >

> > > > > > to back it up equally strongly. Sanskrit shalokas can be

> > written

> > > > > byanybody, even a primary class student studying sanskrit.

> It

> > does

> > > > > notmean we should accept any shalok blindly simply because

> it

> > > is

> > > > > >

> > > > > > written

> > > > > >

> > > > > > in sanskrit.At one stage you said this is a shaloka and

we

> > need

> > > not

> > > > > go into itsreasoning. OK but tell us the name of the author

> > who

> > > is so

> > > > > respected

> > > > > >

> > > > > > in

> > > > > >

> > > > > > this field that we donot question his authority. In your

> > other

> > > mail

> > > > > you have advised me to read commentaries of Pt.Gopeshkumar

> Oza

> > and

> > > > > Pt. Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read

> > > > > >

> > > > > > commentaries

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and not the original shalokas if I know sanskrit very

> well.

> > So,

> > > as

> > > > > a learned Guru please favour all of us with the

> > > backgroundinformation

> > > > > on the shaloka complete with your masterly reasoning whyyou

> > are so

> > > > > convinced of its truth and applicability in the lives

ofhuman

> > > > > beings.I shall not go into the discussion of individual

> charts

> > as

> > > it

> > > > > is

> > > > > >

> > > > > > common

> > > > > >

> > > > > > knowledge that results depend on many factors. If you are

> > > now

> > > > > >

> > > > > > holding

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jup responsible for any bad thing that happened in the

> lives

> > > > > of

> > > > > >

> > > > > > these

> > > > > >

> > > > > > people, then the debate would be endless. Besides Lakshmi

> has

> > > > > verynicely handled this issue and replied the post point by

> > > > > point.Pran Razdan--- Chandrashekhar <boxdel>

> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Razdan,I have already given the relevant shloka and

> > others

> > > > > have given

> > > > > >

> > > > > > other

> > > > > >

> > > > > > shlokas too. I have already advised you to go through the

> > > > > archivesbut it appears you have not done so. Have you found

> > shloka

> > > > > aboutJupiter's position in certain Rasis giving problems in

> > > progeny

> > > > > at least?You have mentioned many personalities, how much do

> > you

> > > know

> > > > > abouttheir personal lives to say that Jupiter has not

harmed

> > the

> > > > > house that occupies? Does A.B. Vajpayee has his own family?

> > Check

> > > up.

> > > > > Also

> > > > > >

> > > > > > check

> > > > > >

> > > > > > up what lata Mangeshkar did to her sister to understand

> what

> > > Guru

> > > > > inLagna can do.I have not made any sweeping statement. If

> you

> > read

> > > > > the list, manyhave agreed to what I have said from their own

> > > > > experience. I have alsosaid that one has to apply the

dictum

> in

> > > > > proper perspective to get

> > > > > >

> > > > > > correct

> > > > > >

> > > > > > results. For this one has to know all the dictums, like

all

> > > > > planetsgive good results in own house and all planets are

> > capable

> > > of

> > > > > giving

> > > > > >

> > > > > > good

> > > > > >

> > > > > > results in 11th house. I think I have written umpteen

> times

> > that

> > > > > no

> > > > > >

> > > > > > principle can be applied on standalone basis but has to be

> > > > > appliedafter taking into consideration all variables.The

case

> > > > > mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house

orSaturn

> > who

> > > > > protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I

> > remember

> > > > > >

> > > > > > right.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The dictum being Sthana Bhrashta karoti JeevaH , sthana

> > > > > rakshatimandaH, the results that are stated to be obtained

> are

> > in

> > > > > keeping with thedictum.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan

> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar, I have been reading your posts on

> this

> > > subject

> > > > > all along but

> > > > > >

> > > > > > failed

> > > > > >

> > > > > > to

> > > > > >

> > > > > > get your source of conviction.We all agree that Jup too

> has

> > its

> > > > > unfavourable positions and

> > > > > >

> > > > > > traits.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We know it is a stronger Maraka, we also know that it is

> > > > > a

> > > > > >

> > > > > > functional

> > > > > >

> > > > > > malefic in Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We also know

> > that

> > > > > it

> > > > > >

> > > > > > gets

> > > > > >

> > > > > > KP dosh in quadrant lordship, although KPdosh means only

> > holding

> > > > > beneficial/malefic qualities, nothing more, but we extend

> > > > > the

> > > > > >

> > > > > > argument

> > > > > >

> > > > > > further by making them good or bad. These are well

> > > > > established

> > > > > >

> > > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > > _______________________________Express

> > > yourself

> > > > > with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.

> > http://messenger.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Group info: vedic-

> > > astrology/info.html

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > >

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> > > astrology/info.html

> > > > > >

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> Terms

> > of

> > > > > Service.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam protection

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September 24, 2004

Dear Shri Tatwam Asi ji

You have more experience than me and for the same reason i may not

counter your claims/knowledge/experiments.

But from my own experience, i can give you input on Dhanu Rashi and

Guru ,if it helps or adds to your experiments with Guru.

I have Guru placed alone in Lagna,Dhanus in moola nakshathra.I have

to say Guru has been a big blessing for me.Guru has given me

abundant luck, whenever i was in need.Whatever Guru gives, needs to

to be distributed,and i should say, distribution will lead towards

further inflow.I agree totally with Zoran Ji and Lakshmi ji on this

matter.

Now similar to what ASH ji has mentioned,Guru gives with less effort

complimented by luck, while Saturn gives with effort and

difficulties.And difficulties in other words are nothing but TRUTH

and reminds one about the realities.Rest of the time we are under the

influence of Maaya.

Regds

Pradeep

vedic astrology, "nameisego" <nameisego>

wrote:

>

> Hello Lakshmiji,

> True ....all planets show dual nature.

> But most of you do not want to give any negetive character to

Guru's

> role as a lier, spoiler of a bhava, pain giver , manipulator

> hypersexed pervert of intellectual kind, plagiarist and egoist .

> People are prepared to walk ten miles to gather arguements giving

> different reasons for spoilage of the bhava occupied by Guru but

are

> not prepared to accept Guru as main reason for spoiling the bhava

> where he sits.

> Tatvam-Asi

>

> vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh

> <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:

> > Om Gurave Namah

> >

> > Namaste Pradeep,

> >

> > Thanks for your information. There is no doubt that Jupiter as

6th

> lord (moolatrikona) does damage Julia's 2nd house (that's his job

in

> the chart), but if the 2nd lord sun and moon were stronger and

Venus

> dignified, the scenario would have been different.

> >

> > Sri Tattwam-Asi was talking about the dual nature of Jupiter.

If

> we look deeper we know it to be true of all planets. Infact there

are

> lot of differences between the same Jupiter of cancer,

Sagittarius,

> Pisces and Capricorn ! Why only these four, nature will change

> according to the tattwa of Rasi, functionality of house etc etc.

So

> is the case with all the other planets too.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Lakshmi

> >

> > vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:

> > Dear Lakshmi Ji Namaste

> >

> > Yes the houses which you have mentioned do need to be

> considered.But

> > taking into consideration of sthala, Kaala & Saaahacharya ,in a

> > western society, relationships are more or less like family

> matters.

> > Thus they can very well fall under second house matters,too.

> Anyways

> > she had multiple marriages, even if we want to ignore affairs.

> >

> > Looking at her 4th house, one could imagine about her mana

sukha.

> > Especially as Sun is there and more so due to his debilitation.I

am

> > not ruling out the role sun has played here.But there is a

> > parivartana between 2nd & 4th lords as well. Jupiter is not very

> > specific about all the concerned matters, related to his house

of

> > residence. Jupiter in my opinion is a planet behaving in a very

> > broad manner - broad advises, broad knowledge, broad outlook,

> > benevolent, magnanimous etc. If you observe people with high

> > jupiterian influence ,you may find this.While Venus is the

> > reverse,he is very particular about the finer aspects ,whether

it

> > is arts,love,or anyother.Thus Jupiter tends to over look certain

> > aspects,which he considers as insignificant, thereby leading to

> > Bhrashta(as learned members have pointed out).

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh

> > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:

> > > Om Gurave Namah

> > >

> > > Namaste Pradeep,

> > >

> > > When you are talking about affairs, don't you look at 7th

house

> > also? And the 3rd since 3, 7 and 11 constitute the kaama

trikona?

> > Why it can't be the influence of weak 11 th lord Venus placed

in

> > 2nd house (it is also the house of attraction) indicative of

such

> > behaviour and Jupiter as the expansive planet & the lord of

> shadripu

> > (6th house) could have encouraged "vriddhi" !! And, since Venus

is

> > also the 4th lord & moon is also involved (the two planets

> connected

> > with the 2nd house in natural zodiac), her family suffered.

> > >

> > > By the way, where is her Sun?

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Lakshmi

> > >

> > > vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:

> > > Dear Ms.Reema

> > >

> > > One thing that needs to be observed at first glance ,from

Julias

> > > chart is the planets in 2nd house. The simplest way to get a

> > general

> > > overview of a chart w.r to finance,is to look for a link

between

> > > lakshmisthanas & inflow ,outflow houses.When lagna is involved

> the

> > > effects are pronounced.(1,5,9,11,2).

> > > In her case 11th lord Venus,9th lord Jupiter, and lagna lord

moon

> > are

> > > placed in 2nd.Mars the fifth lord is in the house of 9th lord

> > > (jupiter) and aspected by him.A connection between all money

> > > houses.Thus this simple technique, outlines the presence of an

> > > inherent big promise.(the strength of these have to be

> reconfirmed

> > > with amsha positions,shadbala,karakas,ashtakavarga of inflow

and

> > > balance houses etc).

> > >

> > > Now coming to family and affairs - She had relationships

(publicly

> > > known)atleast with dozen men,and married multiple times.Do we

> need

> > a

> > > better proof regarding one of the indications being

harmed?.Since

> > > money indications were strong otherwise,family matters

suffered.

> > >

> > > This does not mean Guru is a malefic or a harmer,rather one

may

> > > storm their brains and understand what is the nature of Guru

and

> > how

> > > he behaves.Various posts so far from learned members holds the

> > > reason for sthanabhrashta.Guru is the greatest benefic,but

> benefit

> > > for what/whom is to observed from case to case.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, "reema_sriganesh"

> > > <reema_sriganesh> wrote:

> > > > Namaste Chandrashekharji,

> > > >

> > > > Sure. Below are the details of the charts I was referring to

in

> > my

> > > > original email.

> > > >

> > > > 1) My mother

> > > >

> > > > 03/18/1946

> > > > Time: 11:58:40 AM (5:30 East of GMT)

> > > > Place: 75E06, 23N18

> > > >

> > > > All her three children (2 sons, 1 daughter) love and respect

> her

> > > the

> > > > most in life.

> > > >

> > > > 2) Julia Roberts

> > > >

> > > > 10/28/1967

> > > > Time: 0:16 AM (5:00 West of GMT)

> > > > Place: 84W23, 33N44

> > > >

> > > > She is a rich hollywood actress. I am not sure about her

family

> > > > background, although, I believe she's had multiple marriages.

> > > >

> > > > 3) Dhirubhai Ambani

> > > >

> > > > 12/28/1932

> > > > Time: 7:35:20 (5:30 East of GMT)

> > > > Place: 70E26, 20N53

> > > >

> > > > He was a very successful industrialist. Worked very hard all

> his

> > > life

> > > > and had a good social standing.

> > > >

> > > > 4) Donald Trump

> > > >

> > > > 6/14/1946

> > > > Time: 9:51:00 (5:00 West of GMT)

> > > > Place: 73W52, 40N43

> > > >

> > > > A new york billionaire; I believe he has good relations with

> his

> > > > family (except probably ex-wives, who made a lot of money

from

> > him

> > > as

> > > > part of their divorce settlements)

> > > >

> > > > 5) John Kerry

> > > >

> > > > 12/11/1943

> > > > Time: 7:12:00 (7:00 West of GMT)

> > > > Place: 104W59, 39N44

> > > >

> > > > Democratic presidential nominee. Has had a very successful

> > career

> > > > throughout in politics and a good social standing.

> > > >

> > > > 6) Ralph Nader

> > > >

> > > > 02/27/1934

> > > > Time: 4:52:00 (5:00 West of GMT)

> > > > Place: 73W4, 41N55

> > > >

> > > > Is a presidential candidate for the fourth time. Throughout

his

> > > life

> > > > he has been a successful activist/lawyer against

corporations

> > that

> > > > pollute environment/create hazards. Btw, I made a mistake

with

> > > this

> > > > chart. When I opened the chart while drafting my original

mail,

> > I

> > > did

> > > > not realize that I had Raman ayanamsa set in JHL, wherein

vakri

> > > Guru

> > > > is in 10th in tula. Now that I have changed the ayanamsa

back

> to

> > > > Lahiri, Guru is in 9th house in kanya. Regardless, the

> > > significations

> > > > of 9th house do not seem to have been harmed. Although he is

a

> > > very

> > > > private person, he publicly credits his father for "sparking

> his

> > > > interest in public affairs". His parents immigrated from

> Lebanon

> > > to

> > > > the US, and usually, immigrant kids from the east tend to

> > respect

> > > > their hard working parents. But again, I do not want us to

> > assume

> > > his

> > > > relationship with father (good or bad), without further

details.

> > > >

> > > > 7) Sachin Tendulkar

> > > >

> > > > 04/24/1973

> > > > Time: 16:27:55 (5:30 East of GMT)

> > > > Place: 72E50, 18N58

> > > >

> > > > A very famous sportsman (cricket) with two adoring kids (son

> and

> > a

> > > > daughter).

> > > >

> > > > Chandrashekharji, I hope I provided you with all the

requisite

> > > > details. Please let me know if you need any further

information

> > on

> > > > the life of the above natives.

> > > >

> > > > May Sri Vishnu bless us all.

> > > > Reema.

> > > >

> > > > vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar

> > > <boxdel>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > > Dear Reema,

> > > > > Would you kindly post the charts you refer to with brief

life

> > > > sketch of

> > > > > each of the Jataka? Is none of the indications of the

Bhava

> > Guru

> > > > > occupies damaged? This information would certainly help

look

> > at

> > > the

> > > > > dictum in right perspective.

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > >

> > > > > reema_sriganesh wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Namaste everyone,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have a chart where vakri Guru (alone) in 5th in tula

have

> > > given

> > > > the

> > > > > > native two good sons. I also have a chart where Guru

> > > (conjoined

> > > > with

> > > > > > chandra and shukra) is in 2nd house in simha, and the

> native

> > > is a

> > > > > > multi-millionaire. I have a third chart where Guru is in

> > kanya

> > > > > > (alone) in 10th and the native was a big industrialist.

I

> > have

> > > a

> > > > > > fourth chart where vakri Guru is in kanya (alone) in 2nd

> > house

> > > and

> > > > > > the native is a billionaire. I have a fifth chart where

> Guru

> > > is in

> > > > > > simha (alone) in 10th house and the native presently

stands

> > a

> > > good

> > > > > > chance of occupying the highest office in United States.

I

> > > have a

> > > > > > sixth chart where Guru is in tula (alone) in 10th house

and

> > the

> > > > > > native has been a US presidential candidate for 4 times.

I

> > > have a

> > > > > > seventh chart where Guru is conjoined Mangal in Makara

in

> > 5th

> > > > house

> > > > > > and the native is a father of two children (son and

> > daughter).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am sure that if all of us were to go through the

charts

> in

> > > our

> > > > > > collection, we would find so many of them where Guru's

> > > occupation

> > > > of

> > > > > > a bhava could not have made the native as successful in

the

> > > > > > respective areas of life, if we were to go by the theory

of

> > > Guru

> > > > > > spoiling the occupied bhava.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Therefore, without taking sides, I would like to urge

> further

> > > > > > research on this theory of Guru hurting the house he

> > occupies,

> > > > before

> > > > > > coming to any conclusions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > May Sri Vishnu bless us all,

> > > > > > Reema.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh

> > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekharji,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Could you please tell me from which purana the quoted

> > lines

> > > were

> > > > > > taken?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have not read chamatkar chintamani, so I can not

> really

> > > > comment

> > > > > > on it. But with all due respects to the author, Parasara

> > often

> > > > thinks

> > > > > > differently. Frankly, my adherence to Parasara and my

> > > admiration

> > > > for

> > > > > > the great master, who thought of a million profound ways

to

> > > > > > elevate /promote Jyotish as a spiritual science rather

than

> > as

> > > a

> > > > > > chamatkar, is infinitely higher.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Coming to Bhagavan Sri Rama's chart, we know that the

> > > powerful

> > > > > > sarpa yoga, aspect of Saturn and Mars (in marana karana

> > > sthana) on

> > > > > > lagna are as responsible, if not more, for his troubled

> > times

> > > as

> > > > the

> > > > > > exalted 6th&9th lord jupiter in lagna and exalted venus

> > (4th

> > > &

> > > > 11th

> > > > > > lord in 9th). Now, if we want to ignore all this

> > information,

> > > and

> > > > > > want only to selectively assess the chart by focusing on

> > > Jupiter

> > > > in

> > > > > > lagna, I think we are not being true either to the Veda

> > vidya

> > > or

> > > > to

> > > > > > ourselves. I think, here something greater than

ourselves,

> > our

> > > > petty

> > > > > > discussions and fragile egos is at stake. The Truth is

> > > revealed

> > > > to us

> > > > > > through 12 houses and 9 planets. Instead, if we want to

> look

> > > at

> > > > only

> > > > > > one house and only one planet, I think we are doing our

> best

> > > not

> > > > to

> > > > > > elicit the truth, but to eclipse it. Please tell me,

Sir,

> > > > honestly

> > > > > > do you, with your formidable intellectual stature, limit

> > > yourself

> > > > > > thus and not adopt an integrated approach for evaluating

a

> > > chart?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As far as Duryodhana's chart is concerned, My

tentative

> > > feeling

> > > > is

> > > > > > that he had Jupiter debilitated in 10th for aries lagna,

> > with

> > > > Mars in

> > > > > > lagna, Rahu in Taurus, Venus & Mercury in gemini, sun

in

> > > > cancer,

> > > > > > Ketu in scorpio, moon in Satabhisham (aquarius) along

with

> > > saturn.

> > > > > > How is it? If any one has more information, it would be

fun

> > to

> > > > > > discuss it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have not thought about other charts. But if someone

> else

> > > had,

> > > > I

> > > > > > would like to see them.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Lakshmi

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sarajit Poddar <sarajit@s...> wrote:|| Jaya Jagannath

||

> > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thank you for the comment from the puranas.

> > > > > > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru

in

> > > Lagna,

> > > > > > Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested

> > Satwa

> > > of

> > > > > > King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face

> > > Cheerharana.

> > > > > > Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house

Guru

> > > killed

> > > > > > Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It

> > > further

> > > > says

> > > > > > that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru

in

> > > 2nd,

> > > > King

> > > > > > Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on

account

> > of

> > > > Guru

> > > > > > in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife

on

> > > > account of

> > > > > > Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables

> > > > (Abhakshya)

> > > > > > on account of his Guru in 9th."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Regards

> > > > > > > Sarajit

> > > > > > > -

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > > PNRazdan

> > > > > > > Cc: Prafulla Gang ; vedic astrology

> > > > > > > Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:00 AM

> > > > > > > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup in

> > various

> > > > roles--

> > > > > > to Chandraji

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Razdan,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states opinion of

Narada

> > in

> > > > Ghatika

> > > > > > Lagna shloka, refers to opinions of the learned (not

> Brahma)

> > in

> > > > > > shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12. First shloka of Bhava

> > Pada

> > > > Adhyaya

> > > > > > again mentions that he is telling the special effects of

> > Pada

> > > as

> > > > told

> > > > > > by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also mentions

> > opinion

> > > of

> > > > > > others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya. The great Sage

> has

> > in

> > > > > > almost all Adhyayas given credit to other learneds in

one

> or

> > > > other of

> > > > > > the shlokas, besides what Maitreya himself said to Sage

> > > Parashara

> > > > in

> > > > > > the beginning of Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of

that

> > > > Adhyaya

> > > > > > Maitreya clearly says that Parashara has given opinions

of

> > many

> > > > > > Rishis and Acharyas. So saying that Parashara only told

> what

> > > had

> > > > been

> > > > > > revealed to him by Lord Brahma would be showing

disrespect

> > to

> > > the

> > > > > > Great sage who had the magnanimity to give credit to

other

> > > Rishis

> > > > and

> > > > > > Acharyas.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Since you are questioning veracity and authority of

the

> > > shlokas

> > > > > > that I quoted, I would like to give you the Texts in

which

> > the

> > > > > > shlokas appear. If you read Tatvapradeepjataka and

> Chamatkaar

> > > > > > Chintamani you will find them. The first text has the

> > shlokas

> > > and

> > > > the

> > > > > > later again mentions same shlokas. If you read Chamatkar

> > > > Chintamani

> > > > > > further you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least

one

> > > > indication

> > > > > > of each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also

mentions

> a

> > > > shloka

> > > > > > from Purana which says:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru

in

> > > Lagna,

> > > > > > Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested

> > Satwa

> > > of

> > > > > > King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face

> > > Cheerharana.

> > > > > > Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house

Guru

> > > killed

> > > > > > Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It

> > > further

> > > > says

> > > > > > that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru

in

> > > 2nd,

> > > > King

> > > > > > Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on

account

> > of

> > > > Guru

> > > > > > in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from his wife

on

> > > > account of

> > > > > > Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables

> > > > (Abhakshya)

> > > > > > on account of his Guru in 9th."

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I would not like to respond to your other comments but

> > would

> > > > like

> > > > > > to mention here that the group is formed with an

intention

> of

> > > > > > learning and discussing principles of astrology. I do

not

> > > >

> > > > > > to your assumption of astrology being a rigid science

not

> > open

> > > to

> > > > > > interpretation. Some of your comments are uncalled for.

> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > PNRazdan wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Chandarshekhar,There is nothing amusing in my

> > reasoning.

> > > > > > Parashara is quoting noordinary Muni but Lord Brahma

> himself

> > > which

> > > > > > gave us the BPHS.SimilarlyPrithuysas is quoting his

father

> > the

> > > > great

> > > > > > Vrahmihir which gave us theHorasastra. Equating your

> shaloka

> > > > quoting

> > > > > > a nameless sage (not sages asI said earlier, but only

one

> > sage-

> > > I

> > > > was

> > > > > > incorrect because the noun andverb is singular) would be

> > like

> > > > showing

> > > > > > candle to the Sun.I dont think this discussion is going

to

> > > serve

> > > > any

> > > > > > purpose. You are notprepared to reveal the origin of the

> > > shalok

> > > > you

> > > > > > are so much dependingupon. By now it seems it is

something

> > > > casually

> > > > > > said to which I attachedmore than necessary importance.

You

> > > seem

> > > > to

> > > > > > have attained the role ofsome sort of a master in this

> group

> > > > wanting

> > > > > > your disciples to hunt forthemselves what you hint at.

But

> I

> > > dont

> > > > > > think this is an Ashram. Thisis a forum of discussion

where

> > an

> > > > > > academic discussion takes placeopenly without

reservations.

> > Or

> > > > > > possibly there may be other reasons foryou not to come

out

> > > > > > > openly.The moral of this story however is clear.

> > Astrology

> > > is a

> > > > > > science. Ithas a method. Under this method several books

> > have

> > > all

> > > > > > along treatedJup as a benefic planet and all

> interpretations

> > > are

> > > > > > based on thisprinciple with modifications depending on

its

> > > > > > functionality, place,lordship, strength etc etc. If you

now

> > > put

> > > > forth

> > > > > > a crazy idea thatJupiter is a malefic or malefic like

> planet

> > (

> > > > > > destroys the house it isplaced in), it turns the science

> > from a

> > > > > > method into a madness. It willput doubts into the minds

of

> > all

> > > > > > astrologists while interpreting itseffects, particularly

on

> > > young

> > > > > > minds aspiring to learn jyotish. AlreadyI see a

discussion

> > > > started on

> > > > > > these lines on this group which in myopinion is energy

> > wasted

> > > on a

> > > > > > wrong notion. Everytime one sees Jup in ahouse, a doubt

> will

> > > > arise as

> > > > > > to whether it is good or bad. Some willassociate it with

> > good

> > > they

> > > > > > had in that house and others with whateverbad they

had.So

> if

> > > you

> > > > are

> > > > > > determined to reap cheap publicity by making

> > > > radical,unauthenticated

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > unconventional "advices", you may do so as this isa

free

> > > forum.

> > > > > > But the least I can say is that this would be

thegreatest

> > > > disservice

> > > > > > to the field of Vedic Astrology.My humble suggestion to

> > learned

> > > > > > members would be to accept any advice only after their

own

> > > study

> > > > and

> > > > > > research and use dependable commentatorslike Raman, Rao

> > etc.for

> > > > > > clarifications. It would be fair to treat anyadvice

> > seriously

> > > > only if

> > > > > > it is backed up by its source so as to makeindependent

> > > > verification

> > > > > > possible unless the author says it to be hisown

research/

> > > > experience.

> > > > > > Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this

discussion

> > as

> > > > friends

> > > > > > (not by coincidence are we both having Jup as

lagnesh).So

> > far I

> > > > > > didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a

> > > > > > headlinesdiscussion. Let me now respond to your last two

> > > > queries.The

> > > > > > reference to Jup in theSecond house discussion of BPHS

has

> > to

> > > be

> > > > read

> > > > > > in totality i.e all thethree shalokas 1,2 and 3 and not

the

> > > 3rd

> > > > only.

> > > > > > Let me give a gist ofeach hereFirst shaloka: Dhanesh in

> > second,

> > > > > > > quadrants, trines is dhanvridhikarak(wealth giving)

in

> > > 6,8,12

> > > > > > opposite.Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house, conjunct

or

> > > > aspected

> > > > > > bybenefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house

opposite

> > > effect.

> > > > > > Nowhereis jupiter separated out as you claim to be.So

long

> > as

> > > it

> > > > is

> > > > > > known as abenefic, it qualifies to be a wealth giver

> > according

> > > to

> > > > > > this shaloka.Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter and

is

> > also

> > > > > > posited in the samehouse. And if Mars is also placed

with

> > it,

> > > then

> > > > > > the subject becomeswealthy. Period.This does not mean

that

> > if

> > > > Mars is

> > > > > > not there, Jupiter alone will harmthe house. This is an

> > > > implication

> > > > > > which you are trying to make outprobably to make your

> Muni's

> > > > dictum

> > > > > > hold good. Parashara never meansit. He means to say

that

> > > while a

> > > > > > swagrahi jupiter in second is enoughto make one rich but

> > with

> > > Mars

> > > > > > there it adds to ones wealth. Mark thesanskrit

words "Vapi"

> > > > > > meaning 'in addition".And then you are contradicting

your

> > own

> > > self

> > > > > > since even without Mars,Jupiter would still be swagrahi

> > which

> > > as

> > > > per

> > > > > > > your shaloka is not bad.So why Mars becomes necessary

to

> > > > support?

> > > > > > As regards your second point, I am unfortunately not

getting

> > > > > > theshaloka since I have a different edition. There is no

> > > chapter

> > > > > > onKakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay which

has

> > no

> > > > > > shalokwanting Jup to have support of benefics to give

good

> > > > > > results.Sorry for the long mail. RegardsPran Razdan---

> > > > Chandrashekhar

> > > > > > <boxdel> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Razdan,I am amused at the reasoning put forward

by

> > you

> > > > that if

> > > > > > some author quotes some other authority, he is not an

> > > authority on

> > > > > > the subject.If that be so all those you treat as

> authorities,

> > > > > > including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have not

> > heard

> > > of

> > > > > > Mantracharya) would alsobe reduced to the status of

> > ignoramus.

> > > > All of

> > > > > > those who are treated as authorities have given opinions

of

> > > > others by

> > > > > > either referring totheir names or saying precisely what

the

> > > shloka

> > > > > > says that is "so sayMunis". So rest assured none of the

> > > Acharyas

> > > > and

> > > > > > Pravartakas will tremble at what I have stated. The

reason

> I

> > > am

> > > > not

> > > > > > giving the name of theauthority is I want people to read

> > > various

> > > > > > texts and find out for themselves. There are numerous

texts

> > > and it

> > > > > > takes time to remember the name of author of each and

every

> > > shloka

> > > > > > one quotes is the other reason.If you do not want to read

> > > > > > commentaries, your choice of astrological texts would be

> > > reduced

> > > > to

> > > > > > almost one or two as every author of note, states at the

> > > beginning

> > > > > > > of his text that he is only telling whatothers have

told

> > > before

> > > > > > him in a more concise form, including Varaha

> Mihira.Maitreya

> > > also

> > > > > > asks Parashara that as he has till now told principlesof

> > > > astrology on

> > > > > > the basis of what others have told he should give a

> > relatively

> > > > easy

> > > > > > method so that transit of planets could be used for

> > prediction

> > > by

> > > > > > those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga

> > > inBPHS.Could

> > > > you

> > > > > > explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS? What

> isthe

> > > > reason

> > > > > > for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord of the 2nd

> > when

> > > > placed

> > > > > > in 2nd or needing to be with Mars there to make one

> wealthy,

> > > > implying

> > > > > > that Jupiter in other cases by its mere presence in

> 2ndwould

> > > not

> > > > be

> > > > > > capable of conferring wealth on one. I hope you do not

> > > > > > disputeknowledge of Parashara himself or think he is

quoting

> > > > > > withoutauthority. While at BPHS you may also like to

reason

> > > out

> > > > why

> > > > > > CH.43 shloka 48tells that for Jupiter to give Kakshya

> Vridhi

> > > it

> > > > has

> > > > > > to be aspected by a benefic when in Lagna or 7th house.

> > Think

> > > why

> > > > > > > Jupiter by himself doesnot give Kakshya Vriddhi in

> > > > > > longevity.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Chandarshekhar,As already informed I have already

> > read

> > > the

> > > > > > shalok quoted by you insupport of your contention. jIv>

> > > SvSwanhNta

> > > > > > vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta,saEir SvSwanpal> prmÉykir

+iòrSy

> > > > ànòa.But

> > > > > > please understand, this shaloka by itself does not

establish

> > > > > > thethesis you are trying to put forward. It has to be

> backed

> > > up by

> > > > > > theauthor, his standing in the astrological field, the

time

> > > when

> > > > it

> > > > > > wassaid and the context in which it was said. Literally

> > > > translated,

> > > > > > theShalok means "Guru destroys the house it is placed in

and

> > > > > > dignifies

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > house it aspects, so say the sages. Saturn protects

the

> > > house it

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > while its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the

> > > > words "vdit

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > muinvra"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > i.e.so say the sages. This means that this shaloka too

is

> > > > > > somebodyelse's quote and not that of its author. Who is

the

> > > > author of

> > > > > > thisblatant theory after all?Chandarshekharji, you are

> > making

> > > an

> > > > > > important and revolutionarystatement which if followed

> shall

> > > > change

> > > > > > the entire structure of

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Vedic

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir,

Mantracharya

> all

> > > > > > must

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > stumbled in swargloka after hearing this shaloka). You

> > > have

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > therefore

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > to back it up equally strongly. Sanskrit shalokas can

be

> > > written

> > > > > > byanybody, even a primary class student studying

sanskrit.

> > It

> > > does

> > > > > > notmean we should accept any shalok blindly simply

because

> > it

> > > > is

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > written

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > in sanskrit.At one stage you said this is a shaloka

and

> we

> > > need

> > > > not

> > > > > > go into itsreasoning. OK but tell us the name of the

author

> > > who

> > > > is so

> > > > > > respected

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > this field that we donot question his authority. In

your

> > > other

> > > > mail

> > > > > > you have advised me to read commentaries of

Pt.Gopeshkumar

> > Oza

> > > and

> > > > > > Pt. Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > commentaries

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > and not the original shalokas if I know sanskrit very

> > well.

> > > So,

> > > > as

> > > > > > a learned Guru please favour all of us with the

> > > > backgroundinformation

> > > > > > on the shaloka complete with your masterly reasoning

whyyou

> > > are so

> > > > > > convinced of its truth and applicability in the lives

> ofhuman

> > > > > > beings.I shall not go into the discussion of individual

> > charts

> > > as

> > > > it

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > common

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > knowledge that results depend on many factors. If you

are

> > > > now

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > holding

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jup responsible for any bad thing that happened in the

> > lives

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > these

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > people, then the debate would be endless. Besides

Lakshmi

> > has

> > > > > > verynicely handled this issue and replied the post point

by

> > > > > > point.Pran Razdan--- Chandrashekhar <boxdel>

> > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Razdan,I have already given the relevant shloka

and

> > > others

> > > > > > have given

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > other

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > shlokas too. I have already advised you to go through

the

> > > > > > archivesbut it appears you have not done so. Have you

found

> > > shloka

> > > > > > aboutJupiter's position in certain Rasis giving problems

in

> > > > progeny

> > > > > > at least?You have mentioned many personalities, how much

do

> > > you

> > > > know

> > > > > > abouttheir personal lives to say that Jupiter has not

> harmed

> > > the

> > > > > > house that occupies? Does A.B. Vajpayee has his own

family?

> > > Check

> > > > up.

> > > > > > Also

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > check

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > up what lata Mangeshkar did to her sister to

understand

> > what

> > > > Guru

> > > > > > inLagna can do.I have not made any sweeping statement.

If

> > you

> > > read

> > > > > > the list, manyhave agreed to what I have said from their

own

> > > > > > experience. I have alsosaid that one has to apply the

> dictum

> > in

> > > > > > proper perspective to get

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > correct

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > results. For this one has to know all the dictums,

like

> all

> > > > > > planetsgive good results in own house and all planets

are

> > > capable

> > > > of

> > > > > > giving

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > good

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > results in 11th house. I think I have written umpteen

> > times

> > > that

> > > > > > no

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > principle can be applied on standalone basis but has

to be

> > > > > > appliedafter taking into consideration all variables.The

> case

> > > > > > mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house

> orSaturn

> > > who

> > > > > > protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I

> > > remember

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > right.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The dictum being Sthana Bhrashta karoti JeevaH , sthana

> > > > > > rakshatimandaH, the results that are stated to be

obtained

> > are

> > > in

> > > > > > keeping with thedictum.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan

> > wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar, I have been reading your posts on

> > this

> > > > subject

> > > > > > all along but

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > failed

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > get your source of conviction.We all agree that Jup

too

> > has

> > > its

> > > > > > unfavourable positions and

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > traits.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > We know it is a stronger Maraka, we also know that it

is

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > functional

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > malefic in Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We also

know

> > > that

> > > > > > it

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > gets

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > KP dosh in quadrant lordship, although KPdosh means

only

> > > holding

> > > > > > beneficial/malefic qualities, nothing more, but we

extend

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > argument

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > further by making them good or bad. These are well

> > > > > > established

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > === message truncated ===

> > > > > > _______________________________

Express

> > > > yourself

> > > > > > with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.

> > > http://messenger.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Group info: vedic-

> > > > astrology/info.html

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu

||

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Group info: vedic-

> > > > astrology/info.html

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu

||

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sponsor

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September 24, 2004

Namaste Sir,

I have just pointed out to Pradeep that more than factor can cause the result

and when it is so, the result definitely materialises. What harm is there if

you check other factors also? If you look at my mails, I always said that

Jupiter is as capable of harming / protecting the houses as any other planet,

depending on his functionality and strength. I never took any extreme view

points.

I also agree with what you said about Guru of Sagittarius, that is very true,

and you have very well explained why it is so.

But, I am sorry, I can not agree with your other views and let us agree to

differ. I honour your age and knowledge and have no wish to hurt you or any

one. So, please don't get excited and let us approach the subject in a much

more sytematic and dispassionate way.

regards,

Lakshmi

nameisego <nameisego > wrote:

Hello Lakshmiji,True ....all planets show dual nature.But most of you do not

want to give any negetive character to Guru's role as a lier, spoiler of a

bhava, pain giver , manipulator hypersexed pervert of intellectual kind,

plagiarist and egoist .People are prepared to walk ten miles to gather

arguements giving different reasons for spoilage of the bhava occupied by Guru

but are not prepared to accept Guru as main reason for spoiling the bhava where

he sits.Tatvam-Asivedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh

<b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:> Om Gurave Namah> > Namaste Pradeep,> > Thanks

for your information. There is no doubt that Jupiter as 6th lord (moolatrikona)

does damage Julia's 2nd house (that's his job in the chart), but if the 2nd

lord sun and

moon were stronger and Venus dignified, the scenario would have been different.>

> Sri Tattwam-Asi was talking about the dual nature of Jupiter. If we look

deeper we know it to be true of all planets. Infact there are lot of

differences between the same Jupiter of cancer, Sagittarius, Pisces and

Capricorn ! Why only these four, nature will change according to the tattwa of

Rasi, functionality of house etc etc. So is the case with all the other planets

too.> > Regards,> Lakshmi> > > > vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep>

wrote:> Dear Lakshmi Ji Namaste> > Yes the houses which you have mentioned do

need to be considered.But > taking into consideration of sthala, Kaala &

Saaahacharya ,in a > western society, relationships are more or less like

family matters. > Thus they can very well fall

under second house matters,too. Anyways > she had multiple marriages, even if we

want to ignore affairs. > > Looking at her 4th house, one could imagine about

her mana sukha. > Especially as Sun is there and more so due to his

debilitation.I am > not ruling out the role sun has played here.But there is a

> parivartana between 2nd & 4th lords as well. Jupiter is not very > specific

about all the concerned matters, related to his house of > residence. Jupiter

in my opinion is a planet behaving in a very > broad manner - broad advises,

broad knowledge, broad outlook, > benevolent, magnanimous etc. If you observe

people with high > jupiterian influence ,you may find this.While Venus is the >

reverse,he is very particular about the finer aspects ,whether it > is

arts,love,or anyother.Thus Jupiter tends to over look certain > aspects,which

he considers as insignificant, thereby

leading to > Bhrashta(as learned members have pointed out).> > Regds> Pradeep> >

> vedic astrology, lakshmi ramesh >

<b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:> > Om Gurave Namah> > > > Namaste Pradeep,> >

> > When you are talking about affairs, don't you look at 7th house > also? And

the 3rd since 3, 7 and 11 constitute the kaama trikona? > Why it can't be the

influence of weak 11 th lord Venus placed in > 2nd house (it is also the house

of attraction) indicative of such > behaviour and Jupiter as the expansive

planet & the lord of shadripu > (6th house) could have encouraged "vriddhi" !!

And, since Venus is > also the 4th lord & moon is also involved (the two

planets connected > with the 2nd house in natural zodiac), her family

suffered.> > > > By

the way, where is her Sun?> > > > Regards,> > Lakshmi> > > > > >

vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote:> > Dear Ms.Reema> > > > One

thing that needs to be observed at first glance ,from Julias > > chart is the

planets in 2nd house. The simplest way to get a > general > > overview of a

chart w.r to finance,is to look for a link between > > lakshmisthanas & inflow

,outflow houses.When lagna is involved the > > effects are

pronounced.(1,5,9,11,2).> > In her case 11th lord Venus,9th lord Jupiter, and

lagna lord moon > are> > placed in 2nd.Mars the fifth lord is in the house of

9th lord> > (jupiter) and aspected by him.A connection between all money > >

houses.Thus this simple technique, outlines the presence of an > > inherent big

promise.(the strength

of these have to be reconfirmed > > with amsha

positions,shadbala,karakas,ashtakavarga of inflow and > > balance houses etc).>

> > > Now coming to family and affairs - She had relationships(publicly > >

known)atleast with dozen men,and married multiple times.Do we need > a > >

better proof regarding one of the indications being harmed?.Since > > money

indications were strong otherwise,family matters suffered.> > > > This does not

mean Guru is a malefic or a harmer,rather one may > > storm their brains and

understand what is the nature of Guru and > how > > he behaves.Various posts so

far from learned members holds the > > reason for sthanabhrashta.Guru is the

greatest benefic,but benefit > > for what/whom is to observed from case to

case.> > > > Thanks> > Pradeep> > > > >

> > > vedic astrology, "reema_sriganesh" > >

<reema_sriganesh> wrote:> > > Namaste Chandrashekharji,> > > > > > Sure.

Below are the details of the charts I was referring to in > my > > > original

email.> > > > > > 1) My mother> > > > > > 03/18/1946> > > Time: 11:58:40

AM (5:30 East of GMT)> > > Place: 75E06, 23N18> > > > > > All her three

children (2 sons, 1 daughter) love and respect her > > the > > > most in life.>

> > > > > 2) Julia Roberts> > > > > > 10/28/1967> > > Time: 0:16 AM (5:00

West of GMT)> > > Place: 84W23, 33N44> > > > > > She is a rich hollywood

actress. I am not sure about her family > > >

background, although, I believe she's had multiple marriages.> > > > > > 3)

Dhirubhai Ambani> > > > > > 12/28/1932> > > Time: 7:35:20 (5:30 East of

GMT)> > > Place: 70E26, 20N53> > > > > > He was a very successful

industrialist. Worked very hard all his > > life > > > and had a good social

standing.> > > > > > 4) Donald Trump> > > > > > 6/14/1946> > > Time:

9:51:00 (5:00 West of GMT)> > > Place: 73W52, 40N43> > > > > > A new york

billionaire; I believe he has good relations with his > > > family (except

probably ex-wives, who made a lot of money from > him > > as > > > part of

their divorce settlements)> > > > > > 5) John Kerry> > > > > >

12/11/1943> > > Time: 7:12:00 (7:00 West of GMT)> > > Place: 104W59,

39N44> > > > > > Democratic presidential nominee. Has had a very successful >

career > > > throughout in politics and a good social standing.> > > > > > 6)

Ralph Nader> > > > > > 02/27/1934> > > Time: 4:52:00 (5:00 West of GMT)>

> > Place: 73W4, 41N55> > > > > > Is a presidential candidate for the fourth

time. Throughout his > > life > > > he has been a successful activist/lawyer

against corporations > that > > > pollute environment/create hazards. Btw, I

made a mistake with > > this > > > chart. When I opened the chart while

drafting my original mail, > I > > did > > > not realize that I had Raman

ayanamsa set in JHL, wherein vakri

> > Guru > > > is in 10th in tula. Now that I have changed the ayanamsa back to

> > > Lahiri, Guru is in 9th house in kanya. Regardless, the > > significations

> > > of 9th house do not seem to have been harmed. Although he is a > > very >

> > private person, he publicly credits his father for "sparking his > > >

interest in public affairs". His parents immigrated from Lebanon > > to > > >

the US, and usually, immigrant kids from the east tend to > respect > > > their

hard working parents. But again, I do not want us to > assume > > his > > >

relationship with father (good or bad), without further details.> > > > > > 7)

Sachin Tendulkar> > > > > > 04/24/1973> > > Time: 16:27:55 (5:30 East of

GMT)> > > Place: 72E50,

18N58> > > > > > A very famous sportsman (cricket) with two adoring kids (son

and > a > > > daughter).> > > > > > Chandrashekharji, I hope I provided you

with all the requisite > > > details. Please let me know if you need any

further information > on > > > the life of the above natives.> > > > > > May

Sri Vishnu bless us all.> > > Reema.> > > > > > --- In

vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar > > <boxdel> > > > wrote:>

> > > Dear Reema,> > > > Would you kindly post the charts you refer to with

brief life > > > sketch of > > > > each of the Jataka? Is none of the

indications of the Bhava > Guru > > > > occupies damaged? This information

would certainly help look > at >

> the > > > > dictum in right perspective.> > > > Chandrashekhar.> > > > > > > >

> > > > reema_sriganesh wrote:> > > > > > > > > Namaste everyone,> > > > >> > >

> > I have a chart where vakri Guru (alone) in 5th in tula have > > given > > >

the> > > > > native two good sons. I also have a chart where Guru > > (conjoined

> > > with> > > > > chandra and shukra) is in 2nd house in simha, and the native

> > is a> > > > > multi-millionaire. I have a third chart where Guru is in >

kanya> > > > > (alone) in 10th and the native was a big industrialist. I > have

> > a> > > > > fourth chart where vakri Guru is in kanya (alone) in 2nd > house

> >

and> > > > > the native is a billionaire. I have a fifth chart where Guru > > is

in> > > > > simha (alone) in 10th house and the native presently stands > a > >

good> > > > > chance of occupying the highest office in United States. I > >

have a> > > > > sixth chart where Guru is in tula (alone) in 10th house and >

the> > > > > native has been a US presidential candidate for 4 times. I > >

have a> > > > > seventh chart where Guru is conjoined Mangal in Makara in > 5th

> > > house> > > > > and the native is a father of two children (son and >

daughter).> > > > >> > > > > I am sure that if all of us were to go through the

charts in > > our> > > > > collection, we would find so many of them where

Guru's

> > occupation > > > of> > > > > a bhava could not have made the native as

successful in the> > > > > respective areas of life, if we were to go by the

theory of > > Guru> > > > > spoiling the occupied bhava.> > > > >> > > > >

Therefore, without taking sides, I would like to urge further> > > > > research

on this theory of Guru hurting the house he > occupies, > > > before> > > > >

coming to any conclusions.> > > > >> > > > > May Sri Vishnu bless us all,> > >

> > Reema.> > > > >> > > > > vedic astrology, lakshmi

ramesh> > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Om Gurave

Namah> > >

> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Namaste Chandrasekharji,> > > > > >> > >

> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Could you please tell me from which purana the

quoted > lines > > were> > > > > taken?> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >

> > > I have not read chamatkar chintamani, so I can not really > > > comment>

> > > > on it. But with all due respects to the author, Parasara > often > > >

thinks> > > > > differently. Frankly, my adherence to Parasara and my > >

admiration > > > for> > > > > the great master, who thought of a million

profound ways to> > > > >

elevate /promote Jyotish as a spiritual science rather than > as > > a> > > > >

chamatkar, is infinitely higher.> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >

Coming to Bhagavan Sri Rama's chart, we know that the > > powerful> > > > >

sarpa yoga, aspect of Saturn and Mars (in marana karana > > sthana) on> > > > >

lagna are as responsible, if not more, for his troubled > times > > as > > >

the> > > > > exalted 6th&9th lord jupiter in lagna and exalted venus > (4th >

> & > > > 11th> > > > > lord in 9th). Now, if we want to ignore all this >

information, > > and> > > > > want only to selectively assess the chart by

focusing on > > Jupiter > >

> in> > > > > lagna, I think we are not being true either to the Veda > vidya >

> or > > > to> > > > > ourselves. I think, here something greater than

ourselves, > our > > > petty> > > > > discussions and fragile egos is at stake.

The Truth is > > revealed > > > to us> > > > > through 12 houses and 9 planets.

Instead, if we want to look > > at > > > only> > > > > one house and only one

planet, I think we are doing our best > > not > > > to> > > > > elicit the

truth, but to eclipse it. Please tell me, Sir, > > > honestly> > > > > do you,

with your formidable intellectual stature, limit > > yourself> > > > > thus and

not adopt an integrated approach for evaluating a > >

chart?> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > As far as Duryodhana's chart

is concerned, My tentative > > feeling > > > is> > > > > that he had Jupiter

debilitated in 10th for aries lagna, > with > > > Mars in> > > > > lagna, Rahu

in Taurus, Venus & Mercury in gemini, sun in > > > cancer, > > > > > Ketu in

scorpio, moon in Satabhisham (aquarius) along with > > saturn.> > > > > How is

it? If any one has more information, it would be fun > to> > > > > discuss it.>

> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > I have not thought about other

charts. But if someone else > > had, > > > I> > >

> > would like to see them.> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >

Regards,> > > > > >> > > > > > Lakshmi> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >

> >> > > > > > Sarajit Poddar <sarajit@s...> wrote:|| Jaya Jagannath ||> > > > >

> Dear Chandrashekhar,> > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for the comment from the

puranas.> > > > > > " Lord Rama had to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in >

> Lagna,> > > > > Guru in third sent Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested >

Satwa > > of > > > > > King Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face > >

Cheerharana.>

> > > > Guru in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru > > killed> >

> > > Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It > > further > >

> says> > > > > that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in > >

2nd, > > > King> > > > > Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on

account > of > > > Guru> > > > > in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer separation from

his wife on > > > account of> > > > > Guru in Seventh. Vishwamitra had to

consume non eatables > > > (Abhakshya)> > > > > on account of his Guru in

9th."> > > > > >> > > > > > Regards> > > > > > Sarajit> > > > > > -----

Original Message -----> > > > > >

Chandrashekhar> > > > > > PNRazdan> > > > > > Cc: Prafulla Gang ;

vedic astrology> > > > > > Wednesday, September 22, 2004

5:00 AM> > > > > > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: 2nd house Jup in >

various > > > roles--> > > > > to Chandraji> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >

Dear Razdan,> > > > > >> > > > > > Read BPHS again, Sage Parashara states

opinion of Narada > in > > > Ghatika> > > > > Lagna shloka, refers to opinions

of the learned (not Brahma) > in> > > > > shloka 15 Ch.11, shloka 15 Ch.12.

First shloka of Bhava > Pada > > > Adhyaya> > > > > again mentions that he is

telling the special effects of >

Pada > > as > > > told> > > > > by other Sages (again not Brahma). He he also

mentions > opinion > > of> > > > > others in first shloka of Karaka Adhyaya.

The great Sage has > in> > > > > almost all Adhyayas given credit to other

learneds in one or > > > other of> > > > > the shlokas, besides what Maitreya

himself said to Sage > > Parashara > > > in> > > > > the beginning of

Ashtakavarga Adhyaya. In Shloka 1 of that > > > Adhyaya> > > > > Maitreya

clearly says that Parashara has given opinions of > many> > > > > Rishis and

Acharyas. So saying that Parashara only told what > > had > > > been> > > > >

revealed to him by Lord Brahma would be showing disrespect > to > >

the> > > > > Great sage who had the magnanimity to give credit to other > >

Rishis > > > and> > > > > Acharyas.> > > > > >> > > > > > Since you are

questioning veracity and authority of the > > shlokas> > > > > that I quoted, I

would like to give you the Texts in which > the> > > > > shlokas appear. If you

read Tatvapradeepjataka and Chamatkaar> > > > > Chintamani you will find them.

The first text has the > shlokas > > and > > > the> > > > > later again

mentions same shlokas. If you read Chamatkar > > > Chintamani> > > > > further

you will find Jupiter giving harm to at least one > > > indication> > > > > of

each of the houses/bhavas he occupies. It also mentions a > >

> shloka> > > > > from Purana which says:> > > > > >> > > > > > " Lord Rama had

to undergo vanvaas on account of Guru in > > Lagna,> > > > > Guru in third sent

Bali to Patala. Guru in fourth tested > Satwa > > of > > > > > King

Harishchandra, Guru in sixth made Draupadi face > > Cheerharana.> > > > > Guru

in eighth destroyed (Nasha) Ravana, Tenth house Guru > > killed> > > > >

Duryodhana and 12th house Guru sent Pandu to forest." It > > further > > >

says> > > > > that Bhishma was deprived of Kingdom on account of Guru in > >

2nd, > > > King> > > > > Dasharath had to loose his Son Rama (Putrashoka) on

account > of > > > Guru> > > > > in 5th. Aja Raja had to suffer

separation from his wife on > > > account of> > > > > Guru in Seventh.

Vishwamitra had to consume non eatables > > > (Abhakshya)> > > > > on account

of his Guru in 9th."> > > > > >> > > > > > I would not like to respond to your

other comments but > would > > > like> > > > > to mention here that the group

is formed with an intention of> > > > > learning and discussing principles of

astrology. I do not > > > > > > > > to your assumption of astrology

being a rigid science not > open > > to> > > > > interpretation. Some of your

comments are uncalled for.> > > > > > Chandrashekhar.> > > > > >> > > > > >

PNRazdan wrote:> > > > > >> > > > >

> Dear Chandarshekhar,There is nothing amusing in my > reasoning.> > > > >

Parashara is quoting noordinary Muni but Lord Brahma himself > > which> > > > >

gave us the BPHS.SimilarlyPrithuysas is quoting his father > the > > > great> >

> > > Vrahmihir which gave us theHorasastra. Equating your shaloka > > >

quoting> > > > > a nameless sage (not sages asI said earlier, but only one >

sage-> > I > > > was> > > > > incorrect because the noun andverb is singular)

would be > like > > > showing> > > > > candle to the Sun.I dont think this

discussion is going to > > serve > > > any> > > > > purpose. You are

notprepared to reveal the origin of the > > shalok > > > you> > > > > are so

much

dependingupon. By now it seems it is something > > > casually> > > > > said to

which I attachedmore than necessary importance. You > > seem > > > to> > > > >

have attained the role ofsome sort of a master in this group > > > wanting> > >

> > your disciples to hunt forthemselves what you hint at. But I > > dont> > > >

> think this is an Ashram. Thisis a forum of discussion where > an> > > > >

academic discussion takes placeopenly without reservations. > Or> > > > >

possibly there may be other reasons foryou not to come out> > > > > >

openly.The moral of this story however is clear. > Astrology > > is a> > > > >

science. Ithas a method. Under this method several books > have > > all> > > >

>

along treatedJup as a benefic planet and all interpretations > > are> > > > >

based on thisprinciple with modifications depending on its> > > > >

functionality, place,lordship, strength etc etc. If you now > > put > > >

forth> > > > > a crazy idea thatJupiter is a malefic or malefic like planet >

(> > > > > destroys the house it isplaced in), it turns the science > from a> >

> > > method into a madness. It willput doubts into the minds of > all> > > > >

astrologists while interpreting itseffects, particularly on > > young> > > > >

minds aspiring to learn jyotish. AlreadyI see a discussion > > > started on> >

> > > these lines on this group which in myopinion is energy > wasted > > on a>

> > > > wrong notion.

Everytime one sees Jup in ahouse, a doubt will > > > arise as> > > > > to

whether it is good or bad. Some willassociate it with > good > > they> > > > >

had in that house and others with whateverbad they had.So if > > you > > > are>

> > > > determined to reap cheap publicity by making > > >

radical,unauthenticated> > > > > and> > > > > > unconventional "advices", you

may do so as this isa free > > forum.> > > > > But the least I can say is that

this would be thegreatest > > > disservice> > > > > to the field of Vedic

Astrology.My humble suggestion to > learned> > > > > members would be to accept

any advice only after their own > > study > > > and> > > > > research and use

dependable commentatorslike Raman, Rao > etc.for> > > > > clarifications. It

would be fair to treat anyadvice > seriously > > > only if> > > > > it is

backed up by its source so as to makeindependent > > > verification> > > > >

possible unless the author says it to be hisown research/ > > > experience.> >

> > > Chandarshekharji, so let us decide to close this discussion > as > > >

friends> > > > > (not by coincidence are we both having Jup as lagnesh).So >

far I> > > > > didnot discuss specifics with you since I was on a> > > > >

headlinesdiscussion. Let me now respond to your last two > > > queries.The> > >

> > reference to Jup in theSecond house discussion of BPHS has > to > > be > > >

read> > >

> > in totality i.e all thethree shalokas 1,2 and 3 and not the > > 3rd > > >

only.> > > > > Let me give a gist ofeach hereFirst shaloka: Dhanesh in >

second,> > > > > > quadrants, trines is dhanvridhikarak(wealth giving) in > >

6,8,12> > > > > opposite.Second Shaloka: Benefics in 2nd house, conjunct or > >

> aspected> > > > > bybenefics- wealth giving. Malefics in 2nd house opposite >

> effect.> > > > > Nowhereis jupiter separated out as you claim to be.So long >

as > > it > > > is> > > > > known as abenefic, it qualifies to be a wealth giver

> according > > to> > > > > this shaloka.Third Shaloka: If 2nd lord is Jupiter

and is > also> > > > > posited in the samehouse. And if Mars is also placed

with

> it, > > then> > > > > the subject becomeswealthy. Period.This does not mean

that > if > > > Mars is> > > > > not there, Jupiter alone will harmthe house.

This is an > > > implication> > > > > which you are trying to make outprobably

to make your Muni's > > > dictum> > > > > hold good. Parashara never meansit.

He means to say that > > while a> > > > > swagrahi jupiter in second is

enoughto make one rich but > with > > Mars> > > > > there it adds to ones

wealth. Mark thesanskrit words "Vapi"> > > > > meaning 'in addition".And then

you are contradicting your > own > > self> > > > > since even without

Mars,Jupiter would still be swagrahi > which > > as > > > per> > > > >

> your shaloka is not bad.So why Mars becomes necessary to > > > support?> > >

> > As regards your second point, I am unfortunately not getting> > > > >

theshaloka since I have a different edition. There is no > > chapter> > > > >

onKakshya and I took it as Karkanshya Phal Adhyay which has > no> > > > >

shalokwanting Jup to have support of benefics to give good> > > > >

results.Sorry for the long mail. RegardsPran Razdan--- > > > Chandrashekhar> >

> > > <boxdel> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Razdan,I am amused at

the reasoning put forward by > you > > > that if> > > > > some author quotes

some other authority, he is not an > > authority on> > > > > the subject.If

that be so all those you treat

as authorities,> > > > > including Parashara, Varahamihira (By the way I have

not > heard > > of> > > > > Mantracharya) would alsobe reduced to the status of

> ignoramus. > > > All of> > > > > those who are treated as authorities have

given opinions of > > > others by> > > > > either referring totheir names or

saying precisely what the > > shloka> > > > > says that is "so sayMunis". So

rest assured none of the > > Acharyas > > > and> > > > > Pravartakas will

tremble at what I have stated. The reason I > > am > > > not> > > > > giving

the name of theauthority is I want people to read > > various> > > > > texts

and find out for themselves. There are numerous texts > > and it> > > > >

takes time to remember the name of author of each and every > > shloka> > > > >

one quotes is the other reason.If you do not want to read> > > > >

commentaries, your choice of astrological texts would be > > reduced > > > to>

> > > > almost one or two as every author of note, states at the > > beginning>

> > > > > of his text that he is only telling whatothers have told > > before>

> > > > him in a more concise form, including Varaha Mihira.Maitreya > > also>

> > > > asks Parashara that as he has till now told principlesof > > >

astrology on> > > > > the basis of what others have told he should give a >

relatively > > > easy> > > > > method so that transit of planets could be used

for > prediction > >

by> > > > > those slow of grasp in the chapter on Ashtakavarga > > inBPHS.Could

> > > you> > > > > explain the reason of shloka3 Chapter 13 of BPHS? What isthe

> > > reason> > > > > for Parashara to qualify Jupiter's being Lord of the 2nd >

when > > > placed> > > > > in 2nd or needing to be with Mars there to make one

wealthy, > > > implying> > > > > that Jupiter in other cases by its mere

presence in 2ndwould > > not > > > be> > > > > capable of conferring wealth on

one. I hope you do not> > > > > disputeknowledge of Parashara himself or think

he is quoting> > > > > withoutauthority. While at BPHS you may also like to

reason > > out > > > why> > > > > CH.43 shloka 48tells that for Jupiter

to give Kakshya Vridhi > > it > > > has> > > > > to be aspected by a benefic

when in Lagna or 7th house. > Think > > why> > > > > > Jupiter by himself

doesnot give Kakshya Vriddhi in> > > > > longevity.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan

wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Chandarshekhar,As already informed I have

already > read > > the> > > > > shalok quoted by you insupport of your

contention. jIv> > > SvSwanhNta> > > > > vdit muinvra +iòrSy àzSta,saEir

SvSwanpal> prmÉykir +iòrSy > > > ànòa.But> > > > > please understand, this

shaloka by itself does not establish> > > > > thethesis you are trying to put

forward. It has to be backed > > up by> > > > > theauthor, his standing in

the astrological field, the time > > when > > > it> > > > > wassaid and the

context in which it was said. Literally > > > translated,> > > > > theShalok

means "Guru destroys the house it is placed in and> > > > > dignifies > > >

> > >> > > > > > the > > > > > >> > > > > > house it aspects, so say the

sages. Saturn protects the > > house it> > > > > is > > > > > >> > > > > >

in > > > > > >> > > > > > while its dangerous aspect destroys it". Mark the >

> > words "vdit > > > > > >> > > > > > muinvra" > > > > >

>> > > > > > i.e.so say the sages. This means that this shaloka too is> > > > >

somebodyelse's quote and not that of its author. Who is the > > > author of> >

> > > thisblatant theory after all?Chandarshekharji, you are > making > > an> >

> > > important and revolutionarystatement which if followed shall > > > change>

> > > > the entire structure of > > > > > >> > > > > > Vedic > > > > > >>

> > > > > Astrology. (I am sure Parasara, Varamihir, Mantracharya all> > > > >

must > > > > > >> > > > > > have > > > > > >> > > > > > stumbled in

swargloka after hearing this

shaloka). You > > have > > > > > >> > > > > > therefore > > > > > >> > > >

> > to back it up equally strongly. Sanskrit shalokas can be > > written> > > >

> byanybody, even a primary class student studying sanskrit. > It > > does> > >

> > notmean we should accept any shalok blindly simply because > it > > > is

> > > > > >> > > > > > written > > > > > >> > > > > > in sanskrit.At one stage

you said this is a shaloka and we > > need > > > not> > > > > go into

itsreasoning. OK but tell us the name of the author > > who > > > is so> > > >

>

respected > > > > > >> > > > > > in > > > > > >> > > > > > this field that

we donot question his authority. In your > > other > > > mail> > > > > you have

advised me to read commentaries of Pt.Gopeshkumar > Oza > > and> > > > > Pt.

Kedardatt Joshi. Why should I read > > > > > >> > > > > > commentaries >

> > > > >> > > > > > and not the original shalokas if I know sanskrit very >

well. > > So, > > > as> > > > > a learned Guru please favour all of us with the

> > > backgroundinformation> > > > > on the shaloka complete with your masterly

reasoning whyyou > > are so>

> > > > convinced of its truth and applicability in the lives ofhuman> > > > >

beings.I shall not go into the discussion of individual > charts > > as > > >

it> > > > > is > > > > > >> > > > > > common > > > > > >> > > > > >

knowledge that results depend on many factors. If you are > > > now > > > >

> >> > > > > > holding > > > > > >> > > > > > Jup responsible for any bad

thing that happened in the > lives> > > > > of > > > > > >> > > > > > these

> > > > > >> > > > > > people, then the debate

would be endless. Besides Lakshmi > has> > > > > verynicely handled this issue

and replied the post point by> > > > > point.Pran Razdan--- Chandrashekhar

<boxdel> > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Razdan,I have already

given the relevant shloka and > > others> > > > > have given > > > > > >>

> > > > > other > > > > > >> > > > > > shlokas too. I have already advised

you to go through the> > > > > archivesbut it appears you have not done so.

Have you found > > shloka> > > > > aboutJupiter's position in certain Rasis

giving problems in > > > progeny> > > > > at least?You have mentioned many

personalities, how much do > > you > > > know> > > > > abouttheir personal lives

to say that Jupiter has not harmed > > the> > > > > house that occupies? Does

A.B. Vajpayee has his own family? > > Check > > > up.> > > > > Also > > >

> > >> > > > > > check > > > > > >> > > > > > up what lata Mangeshkar did to

her sister to understand > what > > > Guru> > > > > inLagna can do.I have not

made any sweeping statement. If > you > > read> > > > > the list, manyhave

agreed to what I have said from their own> > > > > experience. I have alsosaid

that one has to apply the dictum > in> > > > > proper perspective to

get > > > > > >> > > > > > correct > > > > > >> > > > > > results. For

this one has to know all the dictums, like all> > > > > planetsgive good

results in own house and all planets are > > capable > > > of> > > > > giving

> > > > > >> > > > > > good > > > > > >> > > > > > results in 11th house.

I think I have written umpteen > times > > that> > > > > no > > > > > >> >

> > > > principle can be applied on standalone basis but has to be> > > > >

appliedafter taking into consideration all variables.The

case> > > > > mentioned by dear Lakshmi have Jupiter in own house orSaturn > >

who> > > > > protects the house is also conjunct Jupiter, if I > > remember

> > > > > >> > > > > > right. > > > > > >> > > > > > The dictum being Sthana

Bhrashta karoti JeevaH , sthana> > > > > rakshatimandaH, the results that are

stated to be obtained > are > > in> > > > > keeping with

thedictum.Chandrashekhar.PNRazdan > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > Dear

Chandrashekhar, I have been reading your posts on > this > > > subject> > > > >

all along but > >

> > > >> > > > > > failed > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >

> > > > to > > > > > >> > > > > > get your source of conviction.We all

agree that Jup too > has > > its> > > > > unfavourable positions and

> > > > > >> > > > > > traits. > > > > > >> > > > > > We know it is a

stronger Maraka, we also know that it is> > > > > a

> > > > > >> > > > > > functional > > > > > >> > > > > > malefic in

Taurus, Libra, Capri etc laganas. We also know > > that> > > > > it

> > > > > >> > > > > > gets > > > > > >> > > > > > KP dosh in quadrant

lordship, although KPdosh means only > > holding> > > > > beneficial/malefic

qualities, nothing more, but we extend> > > > > the > > > > > >>

> > > > > argument >

> > > > >> > > > > > further by making them good or bad. These are well> > > > >

established > > > > > >> > > > > > === message truncated === >

> > > > _______________________________Express > > >

yourself> > > > > with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. > >

http://messenger. > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Archives:

vedic astrology> > > > > >> > > > > > Group info:

vedic-> > > astrology/info.html> > > > > >> > > >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > > > >

> > > > > >> > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine

on us .......> > > > > >> > > > > > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

Krishnaarpanamastu ||> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >

Archives: vedic astrology> > > > > >> > > > > >

Group info: vedic-> > > astrology/info.html> > > >

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> > > > > >> > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine

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Sponsor> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >

> > > > > > Links> > > > > >> >

> > > > To visit your group on the

web, go to:> > > > > > vedic astrology/> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

vedic astrology> > > > > > > > > > > > Your use

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----------------------------> --> > ---> > >

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September 24, 2004

Namaste Sir,

Will 100 people walking 100 miles change the face of the Truth? Truth is that

which will stand close scrutiny from different perspectives and would still

abide.

If you read all my posts on the thread, you'd know that's what I was trying to

establish all along and I see no reason for your being so upset. You present

your perspective and I present mine. No offence meant at any stage, Sir, for I

honour your age and experience. Please, let's not get excited and continue the

discussion in a dispassionate and systematic spirit of enquiry.

Regards,

Lakshminameisego <nameisego > wrote: