2nd house Jup in various roles--to Chandrashekhar and Lakshmi on Ashtakvarga

September 30, 2004

The WS is not coming through.

Here I am giving the 2nd part that got cut off. Please read it in continuation.

15.5

16.5

5

-5

14.6

Ve

4

15.6

16.6

6

-6

14.7

Sa

9

Sa

15.7

16.7

1

7

16

T16

0

2

0

2

0

17

TOTAL

10

14

9

18

11

18

10

18

ORDER

5

3

7

1

4

1

5

Su

Mo

Ma

Me

Ju

Ve

Sa

Thanking you,

Cheers !!!

Ash

September 30, 2004

I am at home now for a day and have access to more resources. I went and read

the passage u have quoted.

You have quoted"Even here you have chosen to give only half of what he has said.

For record I shall write what he has said (hope your worksheet does not have

another version of Parashari). To put record straight it i9s not Parashara who

has said what you put in his mouth. It is Maitreya who says " In Kaliyuga human

beings will become dull owing to their indulgence in sinful deeds and therefore,

be considerate and expound a system of science for the persons who would be

having slow perception and through which they could gain a clear knowledge

about their happiness, sorrows and longevity merely be delineating the position

of planets in transit"

ASH : YOU HAVE QUOTED PROPERLY FROM BPHS HOWEVER YOU HAVE NOT QUOTED WHAT

PARASARA SAID IN ANSWER. LET ME POST IT TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT TOO.

FROM BPHS

1-4. Maitreya said: “O Venerable Sage! You have described many kinds of effects,

relating to the Grahas and Bhavas, after incorporating the views of many sages

and Acharyas, but it is not possible to say with certainty, if a particular

effect is quite correct, after considering the contradictions in the effects by

the movements of the various Grahas. As because of sinful deeds, committed by

people in Kaliyuga, their minds have become blunt, be kind enough to describe a

method, which would enable even the shallow minded persons to ascertain their

happiness and sorrows and determine their longevity on the basis of the

positions of the Grahas in transit.”

5-6. The sage replied: “O Brahmin! You have put a very intelligent question. I

will now describe the Shastra for the benefit of all, the Shastra, in which

there will be no contradictions in judging the effects of happiness and sorrows

and for determination of the longevity. You now listen to me

carefully........................"

ASH : MAITRIYA WHO SAT THERE ASKING QUESTIONS AND COMPREHENDING WHAT PARASARA

WAS SAYING SHOKES AFTER SHOLKES MUST HAVE REALISED THAT WHAT PARASARA WAS

SAYING WAS FILLED WITH CONTRADICTION WHICH WOULD BE BEYOND PEOPLE OF KALI YUGA

TO COMPREHEND [THIS IS AFTER SITTING WITH PARASRA AND UNDERTANDING DIRECTLY

FROM FROM PARASARA AND MIND YOU THE BPHS WE HAVE TODAY IS NOT COMPLETE. ] SO

MAITRIYA MIGHT HAVE ASKED PARASARA TO NARRATE A TECHNIQUE OR A SYSTEM WITHOUT

ANY CONTRADICTION BY WHICH MEANS ONE CAN UNEQUAVOCALLY GIVE TIMING FOR GOOD

TIME OR HAPPY TIMES, SORROW TIMES OR DIFFICULT TIMES AND ULTIMATELY DEATH OR HE

COULD HAVE ALSO MEANT THAT FROM BIRTH TO DEATH ALL PERIODS OF SUKH AND DUKH AND

FINALLY LIBERATION OR

DEATH WITHOUT ANY CONTRADICTION.

PARASARA HAS NOT ONLY AGREED WITH MAITRIYA BUT INFACT COMMENDED FOR ASKING SUCH

AN "INTELLIGENT" QUESTION. ISN'T IT SO ?

PARASARA THE GOES ON TO SAY THAT "HE WOULD DESCRIBE A SHASTRA" OF WHICH IS THE

TECHNIQUE OF ASHTAKAVARGA WHICH WILL GIVE US STRENGTH WITHOUT ANY

CONTRADICTION WHICH OTHERWISE WOULD BE BEYOND US FOLKS OF KALI YUGA. LIKE IT

OR NOT.

ASHTKAVARGA SHASTRA GIVES US STRENGTH OF PLANET WITHOUT ANY CONTRADICTION.

NOW LIKE IT OR NOT, WE ARE IN KALI YUGA. YOU CANNOT DENY THAT. PARASARA HAS

COMMENDED MAITRIYA FOR ASKING SUCH AN INTELLEGENT QUESTION SPECIFICALLY FOR US

FOLKS IN KALI YUGA.

KRUSHNAS ASHTAKAVARGA SYSTEM IS A SYSTEM TO FIND THE STRENGTH OF A PLANET USING

THE FOLLOWING PARTS ALL OF WHICH HAS BEEN SANCTIONED BY PARASARA ALONG WITH

OTHER RISHIS. THE FINAL POINTS WE GET COMES OUT IN THE WORKSHEET US WE ARE

USING THE FOLLOWING. HERE IS THE LIST OF THINGS THAT IS DONE TO COME OUT WITH

THE TOTAL COMBINED ASHTAKVARG STRENGTH USING KAS. THE FOLLOWING ARE USED TO

GET TO THE FINAL POINTS IN ROW 17 IN THE WORKSHEET.

1) SAV [GIVEN BY MAHARISHI]2) 4:10 [GIVEN BY PARASARA]

3) ASPECT - GRAHA DRISITI ON SIGNIFICATOR HOUSES [uPCHAYA HOUSES - GIVEN BY MAHARISHIS]

4) ASPECT - GRAHA DRISTI ON PLANETS [AUTHORISDED BY MAHARISHIS]

5) APPLICABLE TO ALL VARGAS GIVEN BY PARSARA.

THIS IS WHAT IS USED TO DERIVE THE TOTAL STRENGTH IN THE WORKSHEET THAT I HAVE

GIVEN IN THE PAST 2 MAILS.

BASED ON THAT THE STRENGTH OF JU = 11 AND THAT OF SA = 10 FOR 7TH HOUSE FOR RAMESH.

THANKING YOU,

CHEERS !!!

ASH

vote. - Register online to vote today!

October 1, 2004

Dear Ash,

I note your saying that it is hard for me to stomach what you have

said. I will tell you why. You have not made any remarks about the

shlokas. I do not understand why this hesitance since you claim that

the system is Vedic Astrology. You have also, not commented about

mention of wrong names of even sages in the lessons of KAS. You have

also chosen not to comment on the portion from the lesson posted. Do I

understand that the position about beneficence or malfeasance of

planets has now been changed ? If so why? If this is Vedic astrology

why refer to house aspected as C or D or anything else rather than give

them their proper names in accordance with Vedic Astrology? If Vedic

Astrology then how can the defined aspects of Jupiter be changed? You

say:

"I HAVE ALSO GONE ON TO COMMENT THAT FROM KAS VIEW POINT ALSO MARS WILL

NOT BE ABLE TO GIVE THE RESULT OF THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN AS MARS

ASPECTS 8TH HOUSE FROM THE HOUSE LOCATED AND 8TH HOUSE IS KARAK AS PER

TERMINOLOGY. "

Since when is a house itself a Karaka in Vedic Astrology terms? Could

you quote at least one shloka, from any known text on Vedic Astrology,

saying this? If that is also a "secret-unrevealed" how does one take

the statement about the system being Vedic Astrology to be right?

Should that not be possible, It is difficult to believe Vedic Astrology

origin of the system. If this is not Vedic Astrology then how can one

hold discussions in a rational manner, on a list devoted to Vedic

Astrology? This is why I said it would be futile to carry on this

discussion. Unless texts are quoted in support of theories advanced or

at least similar observations from standard texts quoted, I do not see

any point in carrying on this discussion.

Regards,

Chandrashekhar.

Ash wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar,

You have quoted

" For the knowledge of all I am pasting below the last paragraph

of that lesson, which will confirm that even your own system confirms

that Saturn does not give malefic effects for the house it is placed

in. The lesson also says that Jupiter with more Bindus gives malefic

aspect. Your argument has been that Jupiter with more bindu is a

Benefic in all 12 bhavas."

ASH : I HAVE TOLD YOU RIGHT IN THE BEGINING THAT I AGREE WITH

YOUR ORIGINAL POINT AND MY DISCUSSION WAS NOT ON THE BASIC THREAD ABOUT

GURU SPOILING THE RESULT.

I HAVE ALREADY TOLD YOU MY STAND THAT IF THE SAME IS SEEN FROM

KAS VIEW POINT GURU WILL ASPECT HOUSE C OR ONE OF THE PRIMARY

SIGNIFICATOR HOUSES AND THEREBY ITSELF WILL BE UNABLE TO GIVE THE

RESULT AND ITS SAMDHARMI WILL GIVE. SUCH THINGS ARE ALL PART OF KAS

AND THERE WAS NOTHING TO DISCUSS. ITS OTHERS WHO HAVE A HARD TIME TO

STOMACH AS YOU HAVE SAID AND SUCH THINGS AS MY POINTS ON ASHTAKAVARGA

ARE HARD FOR YOU TO STOMACH.

IN THAT MAIL IF MEMORY SERVES ME RIGHT I HAVE ALSO SAID THAT

SHANI IF IT HAS POWER AS PER THE WORKSHEET AND IF DELAY IS OVER AND BY

THAT I MEAN COMBINED OR WORKSHEET STRENGTH OF > 12 THEN ITSELF CAN

GIVE RESULT AS SHANI ITSELF DOES NOT ASPECT ANY PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR

HOUSES. I HAVE ALSO GONE ON TO COMMENT THAT FROM KAS VIEW POINT ALSO

MARS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO GIVE THE RESULT OF THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN AS

MARS ASPECTS 8TH HOUSE FROM THE HOUSE LOCATED AND 8TH HOUSE IS KARAK AS

PER TERMINOLOGY. OFCOUSE THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS BUT I AM TALKING IN

GENERAL CASE.

I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT GURU WITH MORE POINTS IS BENEFIC FOR ALL

12 HOUSE !!! THERE MUST BE SOME MISUNDERTANDING.

IF AS PER WORKSHEET IF GURU HAS MORE THAN 12 POINTS FOR ALL 12

HOUSES THEN SUCH A GURU WILL GIVE BENEFIC RESULT FOR ALL 12 HOUSES.

AGAIN WE SHOULD ALSO KEEP IN MIND ABOUT THE POINT ABOUT GURU

ASPECTING PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSES ETC ETC.

WORKSHEET GIVES FINAL STRENGH OF PLANET. WHAT YOU HAVE TAKED

ABOUT IS SAV.

WORKSHEEET IS DERIVED FROM SAV.

PLEASE REFER TO THE ORIGINAL MAIL IN WHICH I HAVE GIVEN THE

WORKSHEET OF RAMESH. I HAVE SAID CLEARLY THAT FOR 7TH HOSUE BOTH ARE

WEAK I.E GURU AND SHANI. THIS IS BASED ON WORKSHEET TOTAL POINTS.

TOTAL OF GURU = 11 AND THAT OF SHANI IS 10. THIS IS AND I EMPHASISE

THE SUM OF ROW 17 IN THE WORKSHEET.

FOR RAMESH GURU IS FAR STRONGER FOR 10TH HOUSE THAN SHANI. THIS

AGAIN IS BASED ON FINAL STRENGTH AS PER WORKSHEET. IN THE WORKSHEET WE

ARE TAKING COMBINED EFFECT OF ALL PLANETS AND THE ASPECTS.

IF SA IS IN 5TH HOUSE AND SAY WITH 2 BINDUS THEN ITS ASPECT ON

7TH, 11TH AND 2ND HOUSE WILL BE WITH +6 [THIS PORTION YOU HAVE CUT AND

PASTED]. SO THE BASIC STRENGH OF SA WILL BE AS PER BAV I.E. THE BINDUS

THAT SA GETS FOR 7TH, 11TH AND 2ND HOUSE AND THEN ITS OWN ASPECT ON

PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSES WILL BE +18 I.E +6 FOR 7TH, +6 ON 11 AND +6

ON 2ND.

SO UNLESS THERE ARE A HOST OF PLANEST WITH > 4 BINDUS HAVING

DIRECT ASPECT ON SHANI AND REDUCING ITS POINTS SHANI [AS THEY WILL

ASPECT SHANI WITH A MALEFIC DRSITI AS PER THE PORITION THAT YOU HAVE

CUT AND PASTE] WILL BE VERY STRONG FOR 7TH HOUSE MATTERS. I AM NOT

CONSIDERING EXCEPTIONS BUT TALKING OF GENERAL RULE.

PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE SAV WITH FINAL WORKSHEET WHICH I HAVE SEEN

YOU DO IN OUR DISCUSSIONS. IN THE FINAL WORKSHEET THE PLANETS CAN GET

MORE THAN 8 POINTS. IN SAV THE PLANET CAN GET MAX 8 BINDUS AND THAT IS

BY LAGNA AND 7 PLANETS. PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF THE

SYSTEM. IF YOU WANT TO DISCUSS THE NITTY AND GRITTY OF KAS WE CAN DO

IT ON KAS LIST AND STOP USING THE BANDWIDTH OF VA LIST.

THERE IS NO MIS REPRESENTATION. PLEASE READ THE OTHER CHAPTERS

AND WHEN YOU STUDY THE WORKSHEET YOU WILL UNDERSTAND HOW PLANETS GET

THE POINTS AND HOW THE PORTION GIVEN BY YOU IN THIS MAIL IS USED.

THIS IS THE BASICS OF KAS.

HAVE U STUDIED THE ARCHIVES OF THE LIST. YOU WILL SEE THAT

AFTER THE INITIAL LESSON WAS GIVEN THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION ON

EACH AND EVERY LESSON AND FINER POINTS AND ALL QUESTIONS WERE ANSWERED

BY SHRI KRUSHNAJI WHICH AND WERE ALSO INCORPORATED IN THE LESSONS TO

REMOVE ANY CONFUSION AND HENCE LABELED AS REVISED AS THEY WERE A

RIVISION FROM THE ORIGINAL VERSION AS TYPED BY KRUSHNAJI. I HOPE THAT

CLARIFIES YOUR QUESTION ON WHY THINGS ARE LABELLED AS REVISED.

I AGREE WITH YOU ON YOUR LAST POINT. TO HAVE RATIONAL

DISCUSSION ON A SUBJECT ONE MUST HAVE GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF A SYSTEM

ONE IS DEBATING ON. IN MY OPINION YOU HAVE FAILED TO GRASP THE ESSENCE

OF THE POWER SHOWED BY THE WORKSHEET. MAYBE ONCE YOU STUDY THE

LESSONS ON WORKSHEET AND HOW ITS COMPUTED USING THE PORTION YOU HAVE

CUT AND PASTE MAYBE YOU WILL UNDERTSAND WHAT I HAVE SAID.

CHEERS !!!

ASH

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

Dear

Ash,

I am aware how the worksheet was created. The reference was in context

of your advancing the argument that since work sheet shows a particular

number it is the only correct position and not giving any text

reference to the argument advanced. You even chose to say that there is

inconsistency in Parashara's method of assessing strength of planets.

If my memory serves me right, the entire discussion started with the

dictum of Jupiter harming the place he occupies and Saturn protecting

the same. For reasons best known t you, you chose to divert it to

timing of events and then went on calling every system being corrupt

but that advanced by you.

I had many times said that I do not mind which system one follows if

one thinks it right. But carrying a serious discussion thread to a

direction it was not aimed at and then advancing arguments with support

of standard texts is a bit too much. When none of the parameters

accepted by all the Vedic astrologers including Varahamihira , whose

texts by your own declaration have not been corrupted, are considered

in the system and yet you want to call it a Vedic Astrology in purest

form is something very confusing.

I am certain if you show the entire argument thread to Krushna, he too

will agree to the soundness of the arguments advanced me within the

parameters prescribed by Vedic Astrology.

In so far as reading the Lessons are concerned, would you care to

explain as to why so many lessons had to be revised when the system is

derived from some hidden and not available to anybody knowledge. the

shlokas you are telling me to look at mention wrong reference to names

of Authors except Jataka Parijatakar.

You were reluctant to accept that these are available when I gave you

the other texts in which information on Ashtakavarga is given at

length. Even the Granthas from which the shlokas are taken are not

named. You also talked disparagingly about commentators in an earlier

mail. Now I see why, Bhattotpal who haas written a commentary on

Varahamihira's Brihat Jataka is mentioned in you lesson as the original

Acharya who has written Brihat Jataka.

This does not deduct from the contribution of Bhattotpal, I am just

mentioning the fact to show how your views are biased without due

consideration to the basis of your own favored system. For the

knowledge of all I am pasting below the last paragraph of that lesson,

which will confirm that even your own system confirms that Saturn does

not give malefic effects for the house it is placed in. The lesson also

says that Jupiter with more Bindus gives malefic aspect. Your argument

has been that Jupiter with more bindu is a Benefic in all 12 bhavas.

"The Late Shri K.S. Krishanamurti, founder of K.P. Paddhat,

also agrees that the planets do not give the results as per their

natural natures. In reference to Jupiter, he states that it has lost

its benefic power in the era of Kalyuga and that he has experienced the

malefic effects of Jupiter firsthand. But in spite of Kalyuga, I tend

to disagree. It is the effect of the points that it receives in its own

place that truly makes the difference. An aspect of Jupiter with more

points is always malefic. The same rule applies to all planets. With

reference to Saturn, Krishnamurti says it gives malefic effects based

on the constellation in which it resides. Perhaps, if he would have

come across the Ashtakavarga system first, his whole theory would have

been quite different. "

Since you have all along been saying that Jupiter will be stronger than

Saturn having 4 bindus as against 1 of Saturn and think I have not

understood your system, let me reproduce below what Krushna has said in

Lesson 3 and effects overall of the planets. Let the others who are

watching our discussions decide what is the right position under your

system.

MALEFIC AND BENEFIC PLANETARY ASPECTS TABLE

1

2

3

MAXIMUM POINTS ALLOWED IN HOUSE BENEFIC POINTS ACQUIRED BY THE

PLANET ITS EFFECT IN THE HOUSE WHERE IT

4

5

IS THE OPPOSITE ASPECT THAT IT CREATES AND ITS FINAL

EFFECT

1 2 3

4 5

8 0 Malefic by -8 Plus 8

Benefic

8 1 Malefic by -7 Plus 7

Benefic

8 2 Malefic by -6 Plus 6

Benefic

8 3 Malefic by -5 Plus 5

Benefic

8 4 NEUTRAL WITH 4 NEUTRAL WITH 4 NEUTRAL WITH 4

8 5 Benefic by +5 Minus 5

Malefic

8 6 Benefic by +6 Minus 6

Malefic

8 7 Benefic by +7 Minus 7

Malefic

8 8 Benefic by +8 Minus 8

Malefic

I do not wish to extend the argument further as there is no point when,

even with a different system, one chooses to misrepresent what has been

said in that system to advance one's argument. No one can have a

rational discussion in this manner.

Regards,

Chandrashekhar

ashsam73 wrote:

Dear

Chandrashekhar,

I shall try once again to explain rather than get personal.

If you are using Jaganatha Hora Software please go to Preference,

Related to Calculation, Ashtakavarga Calculation Preferences.

Please carefully read what the Author of the software has written in

the setting response box about the check boxes.

I am quoting whats written.

"If you want to use Parasara's definitions, check all the options

below"

"If you want to use Varharamira's definitions, uncheck all the

options below".

I am saying that its not possible to have a different scheme and

either one of the schemes has got corrupt over time. I recon its

Parasaras that has got corrupt.

There is nothing about being superior or inferior. I keep saying

this part again and again and you keep thinking that I am comparing

and saying one is superior and other is inferior.

I think it will now be clear that Parasaras BAV scheme is different

from Varharmiras.

KAS uses Varharmiras scheme.

The worksheet in Excel did not exist 20 years back.

If you have claimed to have studied the lessons then how is it that

you have not observed that a lesson on casting the worksheet manually

has been given. Lesson 7.

I think pen and paper existed 20 years back. Worksheet is a term I

use as Sanjay Jaggia has made a worksheet to help make all these

computations easy.

About the point of Quoting shokes is your style of doing things. If

you had bothered to read the lessons you would not have asked me this

question. Have you read lesson 2. Sanskrit shloks that you have

asked for are given there.

Thanking you,

Cheers !!!

Ash

vedic astrology,

Chandrashekhar <boxdel>

wrote:

> Dear Ash,

> I do not understand what you mean by saying there is inconsistency

in

> the strength derived by the traditional system and telling that

some

> other system by saying

> "I AM SAYING THAT VARAHARMIRA AND PARSASARA HAVE BOTH TAUGHT

> ASHTAKAVARGA BUT THE SYSTEM TO TIME EVENTS IS NOT GIVEN WHICH IS

WHAT

> HAS BEEN BROUGHT FORWARD BY KRUSHNAJI. SO INFACT THIS IS A HUGE

> ACHEIVEMENT FOR THE JYOTISH WORLD WHERE ONE HAS A SYSTEM ABIDING

BY

THE

> CLASSICS AND AN INTEGRAL PART OF VEDIC ASTROLOGY. IF YOU ARE

TRYING TO

> DISSUADE NEW LEARNERS OF JYOTISH TO LEARN SUCH A GEM OF A SYSTEM

WITHOUT

> FIRST EXPERIENCING IT FIRST HAND THAT WOULD NOT BE GOOD SERVICE TO

> JYOTISH SHASTRA." (your words). If this does not infer that the

system

> is superior to the Parashara system, perhaps my grasp of the

English

> language is not as good as yours.

>

> About whether I have bothered to understand the system, please

find

out

> the list of members of the relevant list and then comment. You

will

be

> surprised. If you want others to learn a system that you like it

is

all

> right with me. However every argument being based on other systems

> having been corrupt are difficult to stomacha. If as you say the

system

> is the only pure version available of the ancient texts, why not

quote

> original shlokas? I do not think that any worksheet (the only

argument I

> have seen offered from your side) exhisted in those days or even

20

> years back in India.

>

> I am certain you will again try to attribute different meaning to

what I

> have said above. Just to illustrate where the system you are

advocating

> has its focus, try to find out why 10th and 6th house are of prime

> importance there.

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> Ash wrote:

>

> > Dear Chandrashekhar,

> >

> > No where have I ever said that any system is superior to

another.

> > This is your inference.

> >

> > First thing. Have you bothered to read the write up on the

worksheet

> > and how its derived. Based on that you can give your expert

> > comments. If you havent read it and are just going by your

> > assumptions this conversation will get no where.

> >

> > Secondly I am not trying to show anyone down or saying

anything

is

> > superior or inferior. KAS has been discolosed to the world

and

with

> > that one can time events very precicely. For that and to

understand

> > how one has to experience it and then one can comment on if

something

> > is right or wrong.

> >

> > My assumption from this entire conversation is that you have

not

tried

> > to understand KAS and just holding on to the limited texts on

> > Ashtakvarga that is available and passing judgements and

proclaiming

> > that the use of Ashtakvarga is for transits as said by the

texts

and I

> > am trying to get people away from such an understanding.

> >

> > The point where this conversation stands is before passing

any

> > judgement one must experience it first. Try it on various

charts

and

> > try to understand the theory. For that one needs to keep an

open

> > mind and one must be encouraged. So many new students are

there

who

> > can benefit and learn how to time events using KAS.

> >

> > Rest of the answers in CAPS.

> >

> > */Chandrashekhar <boxdel>/* wrote:

> >

> > Dear Ash,

> > I have never said that the system of strength used by me

is

> > consistent.

> >

> > ASH : YOU HAD SAID THAT JU IS WEAKER THAN SA FOR 7TH

HOUSE. I

> > HAVE SAID THAT AS PER THE WORKSHEET BOTH ARE WEAK BUT IF

ONE

WANTS

> > TO GET TO THE NITTY GRITTY THEN JU IS STRONGER THAN SA BY

1

> > BINDU. THIS IS THE OVERALL EFFECT. I AM SAYING THAT

THIS

WILL BE

> > CONSISTENT FOR ALL PERSONS USING KAS. SO LETS CLOSE ON

THIS

> > POINT. AS FAR AS CONSISTENCY IS CONCERNED. HERE THE

READERS

CAN

> > SEE FOR THEMSELVES UPON APPLICATION OF KAS.

> >

> > If you want to ascribe what has not been said, I think

others

> > reading the discussion can draw their own conclusions.

> >

> > ASH : ABSOLUTELY. THAT IS WHY YOU AND ME HAVE TAKEN THIS

MUCH

> > PAIN TO GO THROUGH THIS DEBATE. I REALLY HOPE PEOPLE TRY

TO

> > UNDERSTAND BOTH STANDS.

> >

> > I had already explained how strength of Saturn was

arrived

at in

> > my original mail to Lakshmi. None barring you has so far

found

> > fault with it.So either you have not read the mail or you

have not

> > understood the parameters used.

> >

> > ASH : I HAVE READ THE MAIL. AT THE END OF THE DAY AS PER

KAS

BOTH

> > ARE WEAK. YOU CAN SEE THE STRENGTH OF GURU AND SHANI FOR

ALL

> > HOUSES. THIS DISUCSION WAS ONLY FOR 7TH HOUSE AND FOR

THAT

BOTH

> > ARE WEAK I.E. BOTH SA AND JU HAVE POINTS LESS THAN 12 AS

PER

> > THE WORKSHEET AND IT MEANS BOTH ARE WEAK. JUST FOR THE

READERS IF

> > POINTS ARE < 12 IN THE WORKSHEET IT MEANS THAT PLANETS

ARE NOT

> > CONDUSIVE FOR THE BENEFIC RESULT OF THAT HOUSE. THIS CAN

BE

SEEN

> > IN A NUMERICAL MANNER.

> >

> > If you want to say that your system is superior to what

has

been

> > taught by Parashara and other Acharyas, that is your

opinion.

> >

> > ASH : THIS IS YOUR ASSUMPTION. NO WHERE I HAVE SAID IN

ANY

EMAIL

> > THAT ANYTHING IS SUPERIOR OR INFERIOR. INFACT I AM

SAYING

THAT

> > VARAHARMIRA AND PARSASARA HAVE BOTH TAUGHT ASHTAKAVARGA

BUT

THE

> > SYSTEM TO TIME EVENTS IS NOT GIVEN WHICH IS WHAT HAS BEEN

BROUGHT

> > FORWARD BY KRUSHNAJI. SO INFACT THIS IS A HUGE

ACHEIVEMENT

FOR

> > THE JYOTISH WORLD WHERE ONE HAS A SYSTEM ABIDING BY THE

CLASSICS

> > AND AN INTEGRAL PART OF VEDIC ASTROLOGY. IF YOU ARE

TRYING TO

> > DISSUADE NEW LEARNERS OF JYOTISH TO LEARN SUCH A GEM OF A

SYSTEM

> > WITHOUT FIRST EXPERIENCING IT FIRST HAND THAT WOULD NOT

BE

GOOD

> > SERVICE TO JYOTISH SHASTRA.

> >

> > I AM VERY SURE OF ONE THING. IF STUDENTS OF JYOTISH

SHASTRA

> > ACTUALLY KEEP AN OPEN MIND AND TRY TO GRASP THE ESSENCE

OF KAS

> > THEY WILL BE ABLE TO TIME EVENTS AND GET CONFIDENCE IN

JYOTISH

> > SHASTRA. SO MY SUGGESTION IS THAT FIRST YOU TRY THE

SYSTEM

IF YOU

> > HAVENT ALREADY AND THEN MAKE A JUDGEMENT.

> >

> > In so far as consistency is concerned, as far as I know I

have

> > applied the principles given consistently. If I may point

out, it

> > is you who equated Navamsha strength with Rasi strength.

> >

> > ASH : PLEASE DONT BELITTLE ANY TECHNIQUE WITHOUT FULLY

> > UNDERSTNADING IT. THIS IS NOT RIGHT. THERE ARE 35

LESSONS

GIVEN

> > THIS FAR. MY SUGGESTION TO YOU AND REQUEST TO YOU IS GO

THOUGH

> > THEM AND APPLY THEM ON SEVERAL CHARTS AND THEN TRY TO

UNDERSTAND

> > WHAT I HAVE TRIED TO SAY. YOU ALREADY KNOW YOUR SYSTEM

SO

WHATS

> > THE HARM IN KEEP AN OPEN MIND.

> >

> > BY SAYING GURU SPOILS THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN IS A HUGE

STEP

AND

> > YOU KNOW THAT FOR PEOPLE TO ACCEPT. FOR YOU YOURSELF

WOULD

EXPECT

> > PEOPLE TO KEEP ASIDE PRECONCEPTIONS AND NOTIONS AND TRY TO

> > UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU HAVE SAID ISNT THAT SO ? SAME THING

I AM

> > SAYING TO YOU.

> >

> > Again the worksheet being the sole argument being

advanced by

you

> > discussion on Vedic Astrology principles is not possible.

If

> > different arguments are advanced every time under the

garb of

a

> > different system and reference to original thread is

given a

go by

> > nothing can be achieved. This is why I had said that

discussion

> > will be futile.

> >

> > ASH : THIS IS MY LAST POST ON THIS TOPIC. THERE IS

NOTHING

NEW.

> > THE LESSONS HAVENT CHANGED SINCE THE TIME THIS DISCUSSION

STARTED

> > AS YOU CLAIM THAT EACH TIME THERE IS SOMETHING NEW IN THE

GARB OF

> > A NEW SYSTEM. SYSTEM IS SAME AND LESSONS ARE SAME AND 35

LESSONS

> > CANNOT BE DISCUSSED IN A FEW EMAIL EXCHANGES. FOR THAT

ONE

HAS TO

> > READ AND UNDERSTAND THE LESSONS FIRST AND MUST KEEP AN

OPEN

MIND.

> >

> > Before closing the discussion, I will give an example of

how

you

> > have changed stand to suit your viewpoint. On one hand

you

said

> > that Parashara's Ashtakavarga is corrupt and on the other

hand you

> > want to take help of what Parashara has said about who

should

use

> > Ashtakavarga.

> >

> > ASH : I KEEP SAYING THAT THE BAV SCHEME GIVEN BY PARASARA

IS

> > DIFFERENT AS COMPARED TO VARHARMRIAS. BOTH CANNOT BE

DIFFERENT.

> > PARASARAS VERSION HAS BECOME CORRUPT OVER TIME. WHAT IS

IT

ABOUT

> > WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN THAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND. I

HAVE

NEVER

> > SAID NOR CLAIMED THAT PARASARA DID NOT TEACH

ASHTAKAVARGA.

THERE

> > IS BIG DIFFERENCE.

> >

> > Even here you have chosen to give only half of what he

has

said.

> > For record I shall write what he has said (hope your

worksheet

> > does not have another version of Parashari). To put record

> > straight it i9s not Parashara who has said what you put

in his

> > mouth. It is Maitreya who says " *In Kaliyuga human

beings

will

> > become dull owing to their indulgence in sinful deeds and

> > therefore, be considerate and expound a system of

science /for the

> > persons who would be having slow perception /and through

which

> > they could gain a clear knowledge about their happiness,

sorrows

> > and longevity merely be delineating the position of

planets in

> > transi*t"

> >

> > ASH : I FAIL TO UNDERSTAND YOUR COMMENT ABOUT THE

WORKSHEET

HAVING

> > A DIFFERENT VERSION OF PARASHARI. PLEASE READ MY COMMENT

ABOUT

> > THE MISCONCEPTION THAT YOU HAVE GOT THAT I HAVE CLEARED

IN MY

> > PREVIOUS POINT.

> >

> > ON A FINAL NOTE. BPHS AS WE HAVE IT TODAY IS NOT

COMPLETE.

FOR

> > THIS PART YOU WERE SILENT AND DID NOT COMMENT WHEN I HAVE

ASKED U

> > IN MY PREVIOUS MAIL. YOU BEING SO LEARNED MUST KNOW THAT.

> >

> > THE KNOWLEGE OF ASHTAKAVARGA IS ALSO NOT COMPLETE

OTHERWISE

THE

> > VERSES THAT WAS IN THE OLD HAND WRITTEN BOOKS OF

KRUSHNAJIS

GURU

> > ON ASHTAKAVARGA WOULD BE FOUND IN SOME BOOK OR THE OTHER

AND

SO

> > WOULD THIS SYSTEM ALSO.

> >

> > SO LET US NOT CLOSE OUR EYES AND MINDS TO THIS WONDERFUL

TOOL

AND

> > A SYSTEM WHICH IS GIVING SUCH WONDERFUL RESULTS DESPITE

KNOWING

> > AND BEING AWARE OF THE FACT ABOUT THE LOST CHAPTERS OF

BPHS

AND

> > MAYBE OTHER CLASSICS.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Chandrashekhar

> >

> > CHEERS !!!

> >

> > ASH

> >

------

> >

> > vote. <http://vote.>

- Register online to vote

today!

October 1, 2004

Dear Ash,

I have seen your worksheet. I am not disputing what you have posted as

results of worksheet.This is because the numbers would appear as

assumed in the worksheet. I am merely asking for the texts of the

Acharyas whose authority is quoted in the lessons, in support of the

statement that this is Vedic Astrology. In case you have forgotten the

Acharyas mentioned in the Lesson, I give their names here as they

appear in the Lesson though some of the names are wrongly reproduced,

on an off chance there are, indeed, some standard texts by such

Acharyas in your or anybody else"s possession.

"Acharya Satyanath, Acharya Vaidyanath, Acharya Utpal etc"

There can be no fruitful discussions if you go on harping on worksheet

without giving the basis for it in Shastras.

Regards,

Chandrashekhar.

Ash wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar,

Here for your benefit I am pasting the WORKSHEET FOR 7TH HOUSE. Please

carefully study the portion on How Guru has reduced Gurus total

strength from 16 to 11. Also you can study that strength of Shani is

10. It receives no aspect by any planet so its Basic Strength remains

as the final stength.

So at the end of the day. I keep saying Ju is stronger than Sa

by 1 point despite the fact that Guru itself sends -5 [As per the

lesson] as it aspects the primary significator houses [As per the

disucsion that Guru spoils the result of the house its placed here you

can see it in numerical format on how Guru is taking off -5 points

thereby reducing its power].

The ORDER shows which planets are strongest for 7th house. As

you can see clearly from the order that Guru is 4th highest in strength

for 7th house and Shani is 5th highest.

>From this worksheet you can see How Guru and Shani are getting.

Here you can also see how Shani is making Mercury very strong. Like

this you can study each planet.

A worksheet like this is casted for each and every house and ROW

17 for all houses was what I had posted.

So you can see HOW THE PORTION THAT YOU CUT AND PASTE is USED to

ASCERTAIN the total strength of planet.

For 7th house I list the total strength in order from Strongest

to Weakest

1) Me and Ve = 18

2) Blank as tie as 2 planets have gained strongest points.

3) Mo = 14

--------------------

4) Ju = 11

5) Sa and Sun = 10

6) Blank as tie for 5th place

7) Mars.

Anything less than 12 is not condusive or we can say MALEFIC.

So you can see Ju, Sa, Su and Ma are malefic for 7th house and Me, Ve

and Mo are benefic.

So from th order its crystal clear that Ju is stronger than Sa.

What you are mentioning is that Sa is with 1 bindu and Ju is

with 5 bindu in 7th house. But you have not considered the portion you

keep talking about and the whole discussion was started for the point

you said that Ju spoils the house its in.

So here Ju's original strength is 16 but its spoiling the house

strength by sending -5 to 11th house a primary significator house

thereby reducing the strength from 16 to 16-5 = 11 points. But still

its 1 point stronger than Shani whos basic BAV strength is 2+1+7 = 10.

So in short Ju is stronger than Sa by 1 point. The below is

what I call a worksheet and Its derived from SAV.

The misconception is your undertanding of the Worksheet and not

being able to seperate it from SAV and not being able to understand the

link on how TOTAL strength as per the order I have given above is

derived at.

You on one hand say Guru spoils the house it is in but by how

much. Here its in numerical value of -5 and as per other lesson,

planets aspecting primary significator houses will not give result (in

general and i am not considering exceptions for the disscussion

purposes).

As per KAS each and every factor as per Ashtakavarga is

considered to gauge the strength of a planet for each house. This is

not a short cut but a very involved process as you can see from the

calculations.

If you claim to have undertood the worksheet this portion should

have been clear isnt it so ?

Now let the users who are reading decide for themselves on which

planet is stronger and in terms of numerical value and for 7th house.

Cheers !!!

Ash

1

Su

Mo

Ma

Me

Ju

Ve

Sa

2

A

2

1

5

6

2

2.2

B

7

3

4

3

5

0

1

2.3

C

11

5

6

4

3

6

7

3

T3

10

12

9

11

16

13

10

4

4ème de P

7

6

5

6

12

7

12

4.1

Su

4

5.1

10

4.2

Mo

3

5.2

12

4.3

Ma

2

5.3

9

4.4

Me

3

5.4

11

4.5

Ju

9

5.5

16

4.6

Ve

4

5.6

13

4.7

Sa

9

5.7

10

5

T5

0

6

T6

10

12

9

11

16

13

10

7

Maîtres:

Me

Ve

Me

Ve

8.1

(D)

(E)

5

7.2

occup.

D

6

8.2

7.3

occup.

E

2

Ma

8.3

0

8

T8

0

5

0

5

0

9

T9

10

12

9

16

18

10

aspect.

A

4

11.1

12.1

10.2

B

9

Mo

Ma

Me

11.2

4

5

12.2

0

10.3

C

1

Ju

11.3

5

12.3

-5

12

T12

0

-5

0

13

T13

10

12

9

16

11

18

10

14

asp. P1 P2

Su

4

15.1

16.1

2

6

14.2

Mo

3

Mo

15.2

16.2

4

0

14.3

Ma

2

Ma

15.3

16.3

4

0

14.4

Me

3

Me

15.4

16.4

5

-5

0

14.5