2nd house Jup in various roles--to Chandrashekhar and Lakshmi on Ashtakvarga

September 23, 2004

Dear Chandrashekhar,

I made a slight error. I wrote "GURU ALWAYS ASPECTS 5TH HOUSE FROM

THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN AND ITS A PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSE SO GURU

WILL NOT GIVE RESULT FOR THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN GENERALLY. ONLY

EXCEPTION IS THAT IF GURU IS IN PISCES SO SUCH A GURU WILL GIVE THE

RESULT OF TIMING OF EVENT. "

please read it as.

"GURU ALWAYS ASPECTS 5TH HOUSE FROM THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN AND 5TH

HOUSE FORM THE HOUSE PLACED IN IS A PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSE SO

GURU WILL NOT GIVE THE RESULT OR FURNISH THE TIMING OF RESULT

GENERALLY. THE EXCEPTION IS THAT IF GURU IS THE LORD OF 10TH OR 6TH

FROM THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN THEN IT WILL DELIVER THE RESULT DESPITE

ITS ASPECT ON PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSE. SO IF GURU IS PLACED IN

LIBRA, GEMINI, PISCES AND CANCER IT WILL FURNISH TIMING IF THE DELAY

PERIOD IS OVER. GURU CAN ALSO FURNISH THE RESULT FOR THE HOUSE ITS

PLACED IN IF IT ACTS AND STEPS IN FOR A POWERFUL SAMDHARMI WHICH IS

UNABLE TO GIVE RESULT OF THE HOUSE AND GURU IS A STRONG SAMDHARMI

THEN IN THAT CASE IT MAY STEP IN"

THANKS,

CHEERS !!!

ASH

vedic astrology, Ash <ashsam73> wrote:

> Dear Chandrashekhar,

>

> My answers in CAPS.

>

> Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote:

>

> Dear Ash,

> Ashtakavarga system is based on Bindus allotted to particular

houses for each of the planet with respect to its position from the

planet whose Ashtakavarga is being drawn.

>

> ASH : YES AGREED.

>

> The system you are using is based on considering the strengths of

planets and the Bhavas too. This is the system generally referred as

Parashari or more precisely Hora system which also encompasses the

Ashtakavarga system.

>

> ASH : ASHTAKVARGA IS A PART AND PARCLE OF VEDIC ASTROLOGY AND THAT

IS WHAT I HAVE ALSO SAID. I HAVE SAID THAT THE SYSTEM TO TIME EVENTS

IS NOT GIVEN IN TEXTS AVAILABLE TODAY. REST CLARIFICAITON BELOW.

>

> Ashtakavarga is primarily used to find out effects from Transit of

planets and longevity as made clear in conversation between Maitreya

and sage Parashara in BPHS. Ashtakavarga system is clearly defined in

that text.

>

> ASH : THIS IS WHAT THE MISCONCEPTION IS. BASED ON THE TEXTS

AVAILABLE TODAY. DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT ASHTAKVARG IS USED ONLY

FOR FINDING OUT TRANSIT. IS THAT WHY PARASARA HAS SAID THAT TO USE

ASHTAKAVARGA FOR INTELLECUTAL PYGMIES OF KALIYUGA ? I DO NOT THINK

SO SIR. THE SYSTEM OF ASHTAKVARGA IS VERY DETAILED AND KAS AND

VERSES OF ASHTAKAVARGA HAVE BEEN BROUGHT FORWARD BY KRUSHNAJI WHICH

ARE NOT FOUND IN ANY BOOK TODAY. IF YOU CLAIM THAT BHPS IS COMPLETE

AND THAT ALL THAT IS AVAILABLE ABOUT ASHTAKVARGA IS FOUND AND CODED

AND THERE IS NO CORRUPTION THEN I WILL NOT INDULGE YOU ANY FURTHER.

>

> No doubt the system can be adopted to various other predictions, as

it indicates influences on various bhavas. Its various uses have been

well documented in numerous texts besides BPHS and the very short

description of Varahamihira. The assumption that its use is not

mentioned for different uses in any other text but the two you

mentioned is not factually correct.

>

> ASH : THE SYSTEM TO TIME EVENTS USING ASHTAKVARGA IS NOT GIVEN

CLEARLY IS IN ANY TEXTS. THAT IS WHAT I AM SAYING.

>

> Krushna has developed different parameters and as long as the

system delivers results there should be no issue with that.

>

> ASH : HERE I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT KRUSHNAJI HAS NOT DEVELOPED

DIFFERENT PARAMETERS AND THIS SYSTEM. HE HAD BROUGHT IT FORWARD.

THIS SYSTEM WAS KEPT IN FAMILY OF HIS GURU AND THAT WAS TRANSMITTED

FROM FATHER TO SON. KRUSHNAJI WANTED THIS SYSTEM TO REMAIN IN THIS

WORLD. THIS SYSTEM MUST HAVE BEEN IN HIS GURUS LINEAGE FOR

CENTURIES. IF ONE UNDERSTANDS THIS SYSTEM TO TIME EVENTS MAYBE WHAT

AND WHY I AM INDULDING YOU IN THIS THREAD WILL BECOME CLEAR.

>

> It is easy to say that Parashara and Varahamihira's texts are

corrupted, and they could be. But that does not prove that the bindus

used are wrong especially as most of other parameters that you

mention are drawn from these very texts.

>

> ASH : THE SYSTEM OF TIMING OF EVENTS USING ASHTAKAVARGA IS NOT

DIFFERENT FROM VEDIC ASTROLOGY. INFACT VEDIC ASTROLOGY IS MADE CLEAR

WITH THE PROPER USE OF ASHTAKAVARGA AND KAS. I DO NOT THINK PARASARA

LIGHTLY MENTIONED THE USE OF ASHTAKAVARGA FOR US PEOPLE IN KALI

YUGA. A LOT OF ASHTAKVARGA AND SANSKRIT SHLOKAS HAVE BEEN LOST.

THIS IS WHAT I AM SAYING OR KEPT WITH FAMILES TILL SOMEONE LIKE

KRUSHNAJI COMES ALONG AND BRINGS SUCH TECHNIQUES FORWARD. ITS A BIG

CREDIT TO KRUSHNAJI FOR BRINGING FORWARD THIS SYSTEM WITH HAS MADE

TIMING OF EVENTS SO EASY.

>

> It is well known that Varaha Mihira was influenced by Greek

astrologers and has adopted some of their methods, so the bindus that

he attributes could also have come from them.

>

> ASH : ONE THING. BAV IS BAV AND BASIC SCHEME SHOUL.D BE SAME.

ONLY IN BAV OF MOON AND VENUS THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. PARASARA AND

VARHARMIRA CANNOT HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS. EITHER PARASARA'S SCHEME

IS CORRUPT OR VARHARMIRAS'S. AT THE END OF THE DAY BOTH MUST MATCH.

SO ITS INFACT QUITE EASY TO SAY THAT EITHER PARSARAS OR VARHARMIRAS

BAV IS CORRPUT. I AM CONFIDENT THAT VARHRMAIRAS HAS REMAINED IN TACT

OVER THE CENTURIES AND PARASARAS BAV SCHME IS CORRPUT. IN ANY CASE I

WILL GO BY WHAT KRUSHNAJI HAS TAUGHT ME AS THIS SYSTEM WAS KEPT IN

HIS GURUS FAMILY AND HE HAS USED THAT FOR DECADES WITH CORRECT

PREDICTIONS. SO ITS TIME TESTED BY HIS GURUS LINEAGE. I AM IN NO

POSITION TO MAKE ANY JUDGEMENT BUT CAN SAY THAT I AM USNIG

VARHARMIRAS SCHEME.

>

> Since you give equal importance to Navamsha and Rasi whereas I go

by the old time system of planetary strength being derived from

Navamsha, it might not be possible for you to follow my meaning and

reasons behind attributing more strength to Saturn over Jupiter.

>

> ASH : I AM FINDING STRENGTH USING ASHTAKVARGA BUT FOR EACH PLANET

AND FOR EACH HOUSE. YOU ARE ALSO TRYING TO FIND THE STRENGH BUT I AM

NOT CLEAR WHEN YOU SAY SHANI IS STRONGER THAN GURU BUT FOR WHAT ? IS

IT FOR EVENT OR ALL 12 HOUSES ? JUST SAYING STRONGER IS VERY

GENERAL. IF I WERE TO ASK YOU IS SHANI STRONGER THAN GURU FOR 4TH

HOUSE OR 10TH HOUSE. THIS IS HOW I AM SEETNG THINGS. AS PER THE

WORKSHEET STRENGTH GURU IS FAR BETTER FOR 10TH HOUSE AS COMPARED TO

SHANI HOWEVER SHANI IS FAR STRONGER THAN GURU FOR 4TH HOUSE MATTERS.

>

> The question of strength of the two planets was raised by Lakshmi

and I was responding to that. I so far as influence over all 12 Rasis

comment is concerned, Vedic astrology does think that planets have

influence over all Bhavas and other planets and the way the results

would manifest depend on their mutual relation.

>

> ASH : EXACTLY. HERE IN LIES THE ESSENCE OF WHAT I WAS SAYING OR

TRYING TO SAY FOR SO LONG. THE BEAUTY OF IS THAT SAV ALREADY TAKES

CARE OF MUTUAL RELATIONS SO IT BECOMES IMPERATIVE THAT BAV IS

ACCURATE AS SAV AS U KNOW IS DERIVED FROM BAV. THAT WAS MY COMMENT

ON COMPOUNDING OF ERRORS. THIS IS WHY WHEN YOU SAY THAT SHANI IS

STRONGER THAN GURU CONFUSES ME BECAUSE YES FOR 4TH HOUSE SHANI IS

STRONGER THAN GURU BUT NOT FOR 10TH HOUSE. HERE I AM BEING VERY

SPECIFIC. SO ARE YOU SAYING THAT YOUR COMMENT ON SHANI BEING

STRONGER THAN GURU WAS CONSIDERING ALL 12 HOUSES AND THE MUTUAL

PLACMENT FOR ALL PLANETS WITH RESPECT TO EACH OTHER ? IF SO THEN I

AM VERY SURE THAT YOU WILL COME TO THE SAME CONCLUSION USING WHATEVER

WAY YOU USE TO FIND THE STRENGH OF SHANI AND GURU I.E NAVAMSA, D

CHARTS OR YOGAS ETC WITH WHAT I HAVE SHOWN IN THE WORKSHEET. THEN IF

YOU COMPARE SHANI AND GURU FOR EACH HOUSE WE WILL HAVE A MORE

STRONGER BASIS FOR COMPARISION. BUT STILL JUST USING THE WORD

STRONGER I AM

> NOT CLEAR OR AM NOT FOLLOWING. THE QUETSIONS THAT COMES TO MY

MIND .. STRONGER FOR WHAT OR WHICH HOUSE OR WHICH EVENT ?

>

> About not considering Navamsha strength, I am not able to follow

what you are saying. On the one hand you say that these being equal

you do not consider Navamsha in worksheet and that you only use

Navamsha to find samdharmi and on the other hand you say that my

contention is not correct.

>

> ASH : RASI AND NAVAMSA HAVE EQUAL STATUS AS PER THE TEACHINGS OF

KAS. NAVAMSA IS DERIVED FROM RASI. FOR THE STRENGH AND WORKSHEET

ONLY RASI IS NEEDED. IF IN CASE OF DOUBT YOU CAN GO INTO D-CHARTS

AND FIND OUT FROM THAT. I HAVE DEMONTRATED WITH AN EXAMPLE OF

RAMESH'S MARRIAGE. I WOULD HOPE THAT LAKSHMI WOULD COMMENT ON THIS

PART. I HAVE NOT SAID THAT YOU ARE NOT CORRECT. YOU ARE TRYING TO

FIND THE STRENGTH ALSO FROM NAVAMSA. AS PER KAS I FIND THE STRENGTH

FROM WORKSHEET WHICH IS FROM RASHI. FOR D-CHARTS I CAST WORKSHEET

BUT ONLY PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSE. WE DO NOT CONSIDER ASPECTS

PART. SO ONLY TOP PORTION OF WORKSHEET IS USED. WE BOTH ARE

FINDING STRENGTH AND I AM USING AV FROM RASI AND YOU ARE PROBABLY

USING RASI/NAVAMSA/D CHARTS ETC AND SIGN PLACEMENT TO FIND OUT THE

STRENGTH.

>

> Again you are talking about timing of events and the original

thread is about Guru's capacity to harm the house occupied by it.

>

> ASH : FOR ME THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF QUESTION. AS PER KRUSHNAS

ASHTAKAVARGA SYSTEM PLANETS THAT ASPECT PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSES

I.E. 8TH FROM HOUSE UNDER FOCUS, 5TH FROM HOUSE UNDER FOCUS AND HOUSE

UNDER FOCUS FOR EXAMPLE FOR READERS IF YOU ARE TIMING MARRIAGE THEN

2ND, 7TH AND 11TH AND IF ANY PLANET HAS ASPECT ON THESE HOUSES THEN

THEY WILL NOT GIVE RESULT IN THEIR ANTRA BUT THEIR SAMDHARMI WILL

GIVE RESULT AND THE EXCEPTION IS THAT IF THE PLANET IS LORD OF 10TH

FROM HOUSE UNDER FOCUS OR 6TH THEN IT WILL GIVE.

>

> GURU ALWAYS ASPECTS 5TH HOUSE FROM THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN AND ITS

A PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSE SO GURU WILL NOT GIVE RESULT FOR THE

HOUSE ITS PLACED IN GENERALLY. ONLY EXCEPTION IS THAT IF GURU IS IN

PISCES SO SUCH A GURU WILL GIVE THE RESULT OF TIMING OF EVENT.

SIMILARLY FOR MARS. I THINK ALSO SOMETHING SIMILAR IS SAID FOR MARS

AS PER VEDIC TEXTS. MARS ASPECTS 8TH HOUSE FROM THE HOUSE ITS PLACED

IN AND 8TH HOUSE SO AS PER VEDIC TEXTS ITS ALSO SAID THAT MARS SPOILS

THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN. FOR SHANI IT DOES NOT ASPECT ANY OF THE

SIGNIFICATOR HOUSES WHEREEVER ITS PLACED SO ITS NOT SAID TO SPOIL THE

HOUSE AND WILL DELIVER THE RESULT IF IT HAS POWER AS PER WORKSHEET.

SO IT MAY HAVE BEEN NOTED IN TEXTS AS JU SPOILS THE HOUSE IT IS

PLACED IN AND SHANI DOES NOT. MARS ALSO CAN BE SAID TO SPOIL THE

HOUSE IT IS IN HOWEVER THE EXCEPTIONS FOR ALL IS IF THE SAME PLANET

ALSO RULES 10TH AND 6TH FROM THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN IT WILL GIVE THE

RESULT. THIS CAN BE CHECKED AND I AM SURE IT WILL

> VALIDATE WITH YOUR EXCEPTIONS.

>

> SO I AM NOT TAKING PART IN THE DISCUSSION AS FOR ME PERSONALLY

THERE IS NOTHING TO DISCUSS. THE BASICS OF SUCH THINGS ARE CRYSTAL

CLEAR AND CONSIDERED BY THE RULES OF KRUSHNAS ASHTAVARGA SYSTEM. I

AM VERY GLAD HOWEVER TO SEE THAT YOU HAVE BROUGHT UP THIS TOPIC.

>

> ANOTHER THING, GURU IS A HYOCRATIC PLANET. WHENEVER ONE TRIES TO

POTRAY GURU AS BAD THERE WILL BE RESISTANCE. THIS IS THE POWER OF

GURU. I AM SITTING BACK AND READING WITH INTEREST AND SEEING THE

MAYA GURU CREATES. FUNNY ITS EASIER TO BLAME SHANI FOR THINGS AND

POTRAY IT AS BAD BUT INFACT ITS SHANI WHO IS THE PLANET OF TRUTH.

>

> SUCH THIGNS ARE HARD FOR PEOPLE TO DIGEST AND YOU ARE GETTING SO

MUCH OF EXPLAINING TO DO. THIS ITSELF PROVES MY POINT AND YOUR POINT

ALSO.

>

> Anyway let us await Lakshmi's comment about your observation on

Mercury Antar, though this is not part of the original discussions.

>

> ASH : YES, IT WILL BE NICE IF LAKSHMI CAN COMMENT ON THE MARRIAGE

OF RAMESH IF IT HAPPENED IN MERCURY ANTRA AS PER KAY. IF THE DATE IS

GIVEN IT WILL BE BETTER. THIS WILL PROVE THE POWER OF THE PLANET AS

PER WORKSHEET TO DELIVER THE RESULTS AFTER FINDING OUT THE DELAY FROM

RASHI AND NAVAMSA AS BOTH HAVE SIMILAR STATUS AS PER KAS.

>

> THANK YOU FOR THIS DICUSSION,

>

> CHEERS !!!

>

> ASH

>

> Regards,

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> Ash wrote:

>

> Dear Chandrashekhar,

> My answers in CAPS below.

>

> Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote:

>

> Dear Ash,

> I forgot that you are using Krushna's Ashtakavarga system. In that

case you must be using Krushna's Ayanamsha. The system you are using

is a combination of Ashtakavarga and traditional Graha Bhava Bala

system.

>

> ASH : THE SYSTEM I USE IS KRUSHNAS ASHTAKVARG AND ITS PART OF VEDIC

ASTROLOGY. I DONT KNOW WHAT U MEAN BY GRAHA BHAVA BALA SYSTEM. IN

SHORT WE CAN COMPUTE THE STRENGTH OF EACH PLANET FOR EACH AND EVERY

HOUSE AND ALSO FOR ALL 16 D CHARTS. SO ITS VEDIC ASTROLOGY ONLY AND

NOT DIFFERENT. AS PER KAS WE DO NOT TALK IN GENERAL TERMS AS SHANI

IS STRONG OR WEAK BUT WE CAN GO INTO DETAILS AS PER POINTS AND FIND

OUT HOW A PLANET WILL ACT FOR EACH HOUSE. IN MOST CASES PLANETS DO

NOT ACT BAD FOR ALL HOUSES. IN SHANI ANTRA AS PER RAMESH'S CHART IT

WILL BE GOOD FOR 4TH HOUSE MATTERS AS COMPARED TO GURU'S ANTRA FOR

4TH HOUSE MATTERS AT THE SAME TIME FOR 10TH HOUSE MATTESR GURU WILL

BE MUCH STRONGER THAN SHANI AS YOU CAN SEE AS PER POINTS. ABOUT

NAVAMSA I SHALL COMMENT BELOW.

>

> There is no harm in using it as long as results come true. However

it is not a different Ashtakavarga system per se.

>

> ASH : ASHTAKVARG IS ASHTAKVARG AND HOW TO USE IT IS NOT GIVEN

CLEARLY IN ANY TEXTS. PEOPLE ARE UNDER THE IMPRESSION BASED ON

CURRENT TEXTS THAT ITS USED TO TIME DEATH OR ITS USE IS LIMITED TO

TRANSITS WHICH IS NOT CORRECT. THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN WHAT I TRY TO

SAY AND EXPLAIN WHEN PEOPLE COMMENT ON ASHTAKVARGA AND ITS USED ONLY

IN TRANSITS. THE WHOLE SYSTEM IN WHICH ITS USED TO TIME EVENTS IS

NOT WRITTEN IN ANY BOOK OR CLASSICS DESPITE MANY MAHARISHIS LIKE

PARASARA, VARHARAMIRA ETC HAVE ALL MENTIONED ASHTAKVARGA IN THEIR

TEXTS.

>

> I was talking about a different Ashtakavarga system that you had

suggested exists.

>

> ASH : I HAVE NOT SUGGESTED ANYTHING OF THAT KIND. KRUSHNAS

ASHTAKVARGA SYSTEM IS A SYSTEM IN WHICH WE USE ASHTAKVARGA TO FIND

THE STRENGTH OF EACH PLANET FOR EACH HOUSE. I DO NOT THINK THERE IS

ANY SYSTEM OUT THERE THAT DOES THAT. RESULTS CAN BE SEEN AT A

GLANCE. FOR EXAMPLE RAMESHS MARRIAGE MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED DURING

MERCURY ANTRA. MERCURY HAS THE HIGHEST STRENGTH IN THE CHART FOR 7TH

HOUSE. AND IS LOD OR 10TH LORD FROM 7TH HOUSE. MAHADAHSA CAN BE THAT

OF SHANI. SHANI IS SAMDHARMI TO NAKTURAL KARAK VENUS OF MARRIAGE.

SO SHANI MD/ MERCURY AD CAN GIVE MARRIAGE. THERE ARE 2 ZEROES IN BAV

ONE DUE TO VENUS AND OTHER DUE TO MARS AND MERCURY SO RESULT WILL BE

IN LAST SECTOR OF MERCURY ANTRA. MERCURY ANTRA RUNS IN SHANI MD RUNS

FROM 1983/11 THRU 1986/JULY. 3RD SECTOR STARTS 1985/07 THRU

1986/07. I AM NOT GOING FURTHER. IF THIS IS IN THE BALL PARK ITS

GOOD AND ONE CAN NARROW IT DOWN FURTHER WITH SUNS TRANSIT OVER STRONG

SIGNIFICATORS FOR 7TH HOUSE AS PER THE WORKSHEET POINTS.

> MAYBE LAKSHMI CAN VERIFY WHEN HER MARRIAGE TOOK PLACE WITH RAMESH.

>

> Varahamihira does have a slightly different bindu placement no

doubt yet it is only different by way of allowing Lagna to have one

more bindu of influence for some planet's Ashtakavarga. So it might

not mean that other planet is getting a bindu less.

>

> ASH : THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT SCHEME THAT IS IN

TEXTS TODAY AVAILABLE GIVEN AS PER PARASARA AND WHATS GIVEN OR

PRESERVED FROM VARHARAMIRA. BOTH ARE GREAT SAGES AND THEIR BAV

SCHEMES MUST BE SAME. PARASARAS HAS BEEN CORRPUT OVER TIME. THE

DIFFERENCES IN IN BAV FOR MOONS PLACMENT FROM MOON AND GURU AND VENUS

FROM MARS. THIS HAS VERY DEEP MEANING AND SAYING FOR EXAMPLE IF

VENUS GETS POWER IF IN 4TH FROM MARS AND IF VENUS IS NOT GETTING

POWER OR A BINDU IF IN 4TH FROM MARS HAS A BIG DIFFERENCE. THERE ARE

ONLY 337 POINTS AND IT WOULD MEAN THAT IF AS IN THE CASE OF RAMESHES

CHART IF HIS 7TH BHAVA GETS 19TH IT MEANS THAT THAT 1 BINDU OF FROM

THE POOL OF 337 HAS GONE TO SOME OTHER HOUSE. IF A PLANET IS IN THAT

HOUSE IT MAY GET 1 BINDU MORE STRENGTH AND IT MAY CHANGE THE ENTIRE

CHART. IF THAT PLANET IS IN 4TH FROM A MALEFIC PLANET (BY MALEFIC I

MEAN A PLANET WITH < 4 BINDUS EXCEPT MOON) AND IF THAT PLANET WERE TO

GET STRNGTH THEN THAT PLANET WOULD BECOME VERY STRONG FOR

> ALL 12 HOUSES. THAT WOULD CHANGE THE ENTIRE COMPLEXION OF THE

CHART. WITH ASKTAVARG WE ARE VERY PARTICULAR AND THIS IS NOT A

TRIVIAL MATTER. 1 BINDUS CAN MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

>

> I said 19 Bindus as the chart sent by Dear Lakshmi was in that

format. Varahamihira has exactly 8 shlokas on Ashtakavarga and his is

not a different system. He only has a different opinion about which

places are influenced by Lagna in case of some of the planets.

Parashara has, on the other hand, exhaustively dealt with

Ashtakavarga.

>

> ASH : THIS IS NOT TRUE. BAV SCHEMES HAVE TO MATCH. I DONT

UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING BY SYSTEMS. THE CORE AND BASIC OF

ASHTAKVARG SYSTEM IS THE BAV POINTS. IF PARASARA IS SAYING THAT MOON

IS NOT GIVING STRENGTH TO 9TH BHAVA WHEAREAS VARHARAMIRA IS SAYING IT

DOES. THIS IS HUGE DIFFERECE OUT HERE. SIMILARLY MOON IS BENEFIC IN

2ND FROM GURU AND VARHARAMIRA IS SAYING THAT 1 BINDUS STRENGTH IS NOT

GIVEN. THIS IS THE BASIC. YOU JUST CANNOT SAY THAT THE DIFFERENCE

OF OPINION IS "ONLY". THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING. IMAGINE A SYSTEM

THAT IS USED ACCURATELY FOR TIMING OF EVENTS THE SAV VALUES FROM

WHICH THE STRENGTH OF ALL PLANEST AND FOR EACH AND EVERY HOUSE IS

COMPUTED AND ITS BASED ON SAV AND SAV IS BASED ON BAV. IN THE LEAST

WHAT YOU ARE SAYING MIGHT SURMOUNT TO COMPOUNDING OF ERROR. ACTUALLY

IF YOU STUDY HOW ONE COMES TO THE POINTS THAT I HAVE DISPLAYED IN MY

PREVIOUS MAILS YOU WILL BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND WHY I AM SO PICKY WITH

THIS DISTRIBUTION OF BAV AND STICKING TO

> VARHARAMIRA. IF WE DIFFER ON THIS VIEW WE CAN AGREE TO DISAGREE.

>

> I have already given the reason I think Saturn is stronger than

Guru in reply to Lakshmi.

>

> ASH : YES, I DID READ YOUR INTERSTING COMMENT BUT I WAS NOT CLEAR

ON WHAT YOU MEANT BY STRONGER. STRONGER FOR WHAT EVENTS ? DID U

MEAN STRONGER FOR DELIVERING RESULTS OR ALL 12 HOUSES. CAN YOU BE

MORE SPECIFIC. WHEN I GAVE THE POINTS I AM BEING VERY SPECIFIC AND

COMPARING GURU WITH SHANI FOR ALL 12 HOUSES. I AM BEING SPECIFIC IN

SAYING THAT IN GURU ANTRA RAMESH WILL HAVE MORE AUTHORITY AS COMPARED

TO SHANI. GURU IS IN UPCAHYA FROM 10TH HOUSE AND WITH 5 BINDUS. SO

ITS VERY EAGER TO GIVE 2ND AND 10TH HOUSE MATTERS. SHANI IS EAGER TO

GIVE RESULTS FOR 12TH, 4TH, 11TH, AND 3RD HOUSE IN ITS ANTRA. CAN

YOU BE MORE SPECIFIC. I DO NOT THINK SHANI IS BAD FOR EACH AND EVERY

HOUSE AND NEITHER IS GURU IN HIS ANTRA. AGAIN I AM RESTRICTING THE

RESULTS TO THE ANTRA. I THINK IF U ARE MORE SPECIFIC THEN WE MIGHT

BE SAYING THE SAME THING BUT FROM A DIFFERENT VIEW POINT.

>

> The reason it is not reflected in the table given by you is,as you

have indicated Navamsha strength of planets is not considered in the

system you are using.

>

> ASH : THIS IS INCORRECT. THE STRENGTH IS DERIVED FROM RASHI AND

THE WORKSHEET POINTS ARE FROM RASHI ONLY. NAVAMSA HAS EQUAL STATUS

AS COMPARED TO RASHI. WE USE NAVAMSA FOR FINDING OUT THE SAMDHARMIS

AND ALSO DELAY. ALL COMBINATIONS HAVE TO BE CHECKED FROM BOTH RASI

AND NAVAMSA. BUT FOR FINDING OUT THE STRENGH OF PLANET ITS DONE FROM

RASI. A WORKSHEET FOR EACH DIVISIONAL CHART IS ALSO CASTED.

>

> Using Krushna's Ayanamsha the Navamsha placement of planets could

also change. If you apply the strength from Navamsha as given in the

chart provided by Lakshmi, you will see my view point.

>

> ASH : IT WILL NOT CHANGE THINGS. I CHECKED AFTER READING THIS

COMMENT. IN BOTH CASES USING KRUSHNAS AYANAMSA AND LAHIRI SHANI

REMAINS IN LIBRA IN NAVAMSA SO ITS SAMDHARMI TO VENUS. IT WILL

REPLACE VENUS FOR THE HOUSE THAT VENUS IS UNABLE TO DELIVER RESULTS.

THE POSITION OF MARS CHANGES IN LAGNA THOUGH. MAYBE IF U SEE THINGS

WITH MARS BEING IN 12TH INSTEAD OF 11TH YOU MAY SEE MY VIEW POINT.

AGAIN I AM EMPHASISING ON THE FACT THAT STRENGTH OR THE WORKSHEET

THAT I GAVE IS COMPUTED FROM RASHI ONLY AND SAMDHARMIS IS COMPUTED

FROM RASHI AND NAVAMSA. RASHI AND NAVAMSA HAVE EQUAL STATUS AS PER

KAS AND WE FOLLOW CERTAIN RULES FOR FINDING DELAY. I HAVE

DEMONSTRATED IN THIS MAIL REGARDING MARRIAGE OF RAMESH WITH LAKSHMI.

FOR THAT I HAVE COMPUTED DELAY FOR MARRIAGE USING 2 ZEROES, AND SHANI

ASPECTING PRIMIARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSES FROM RASHI AND THEIR LORDS IN

NAVAMSA AND USING WORKSHEET STRENGTH I HAVE COMPUTED THE TIME FRAME.

IT WILL BE INTERSTING IF LAKSHMI CAN COMMENT ON THE SAME.

> THERE IS A SLIGHT DIFFERENCE IN THE WORKSHEET. SOME HOW IN HASTE

MY AYANAMSA CHANGE BUT IT WILL NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR MARRAIGE.

HERE IS THE CORRECTED VERSION OF THE WORKSHEET. MERCURY STILL HAS 18

POINTS FOR 7TH HOUSE AND MOSTLY ALL HOUSES.

>

> HseSAV

PtSuMoMaMeJuVeSa125172012201171022391614222214123311615121141474261117

7237102353212239191622156321816182158117201014918111810819221292541710

92881214752131034171371621164113816151521415191229101411981415

>

> THANKING YOU,

>

> CHEERS !!!

>

> ASH

>

> Regards,

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> Ash wrote:

> Dear Chandrashekhar and Lakshmi,

> There is a difference between a house getting 20 bindus and a house

getting 19 bindus as you are aware. I agree both are weak with 20

bindus being a stronger than 19 bindus. At the same token if a bhave

gets 1 bindu more it means one other house is getting 1 bindu less.

> It also means that some planet has made a favourable yog w.r.t one

house and not with another. Is it not ?

> I use Krushnas Ashtakvarga system as you are also aware.

> In that SAV is the base from that we derive the strength of each

planet for each and every house and also for each and every 16

divisional chart. When casting the worksheet the aspects are not

considered in the D charts only the basis strength.

> The BAV values given by Parasara in my opinion have become

corrupt. The BAV distribution scheme by Varharamira is correct. The

settings are also given in JHL software where you tick off the check

boxes in the lite version. If you use the option of Varharamira you

will get 20 bindus for 7th house. It would be good to understand if

you have intentionally used Parasara's scheme of BAV or generally use

Varharmiras scheme ?

> To come to the final stength of each and every planet for each

house .

>

> Here is the final strength of planet for Ramesh's chart.

>

> These are total strength of the planets and derived by considering

the following.

>

> 1) 4:10

> 2) Addition of 5 points for LoD and LoE or 10th lord and 6th lord

from house under consideration

> 3) Planets in 10th and 6th hosue from house under consideration

with > 4 bindus.

> 4) Planets aspecting primary significator house i.e Karak, phal and

phalit sthans.

> 5) Benefic/Malefic Aspects on karak, phal and phalit sthan

> 5) Benefic/Malefic Aspect on planets

> 6) Adjustment of 12th from house under focus

> 7) Adjustment of 6th lord.

>

> After meticulously considering all these factors we come to

strength of each planet for each and every house. Like that we also

compute strength for all d charts but in that we only conider the

strength for karak, phal and phalit sthan for each and every house.

>

> You have said that Shani is stronger than Guru. Here you can see

both Shani and Guru at a glace on how they will deliver their results

in their respective antar dasha.

>

> I do hear ya regarding the system not being different from

parasara. Actually parasara did give the BAV scheme but it has

become corrupt over time.

>

> Here Jupiter is in 10th from 10th house so its foritifying 10th

house and also Guru is with 5 bindus in 7th house and in multrikon so

its very eager to give results for 10th house.

>

> If you see the worksheet you can see Ju is having 22 points for

10th house and Shani has 7 points for 10th house. There is a big

difference in authority that Ramesh would have been bestowed in the

antras of Guru and Shani.

> At the same time if you see expenses v/s income in Guru and shani

and compare the 11th v/s 12th points you can see more expenses in

shani compared to Guru antra.

>

HouseSignsSAVSuMoMaMeJuVeSa1Gemini2316191320177162Cancer24101520232314

163Leo309219191111134Virgo26722924144235Libra338235202216196Scorpio321

6202124139177Sagittarius20719525171288Capricorn211519924912129Aquarius

2971713111422910Pisces291310-

217229711Aries401121102614101912Taurus305211019121020

>

> Thanks,

> Cheers !!!

> Ash

>

> Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote:

> Dear Ash,

> Even with 20 points the Bhava lacks strength, is it not? Saturn

there however extends protection. By the way I am not aware of any

Ashtakavarga system which gives differential value of Bindus/Rekhas

based on Lagna of a native or placement of a planet in a Rasi,

aspects received by it and association with other planets. May I know

to which system you are referring to and the weightage for these

factors given in that system by increasing or reducing the

Bindus/Rekhas.

> If you are talking about using other parameters in association with

Ashtakavarga then of course that is a different matter and would not

constitute different system than Parashara.

> Regards,

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> ashsam73 wrote:

> Dear Chandrashekhar and Lakshmi

>

> Pardon me for my intervention.

>

> I would like to comment on Ashtakavarga.

>

> 1) It seems that you have used Parasaras scheme of BAV. With

> Varharamiras scheme you get 20 points in Ramesh's 7th house.

>

> 2) For nodes are we know are not planets. They are used

indirectly.

> They are samdharmi to sign lord and nakshatra lord. For natural

> nature as you have said or quoted in numerious posts Rahu is like

> Shani and Ketu like Mars. Functionally they will be more like the

> planet i.e. either sign lord or nak lord as per the points they

> receive in their BAV. For example, if Rahu is in Gemini and nak of

> punarvasu then it will represent Me and Ju. If say Ge is 3rd house

> and in 3rd house Ju gets 5 bindus and Me gets say 6 bindus then

Rahu

> will act more like Mercury.

>

> 3) With regards to your comment on Ashtakavarg not using sign

> placement is not entirely correct. If used with a proper system

the

> sign placement can give idea on quantum of result and its not used

to

> find timing of result. For timing of result Ashtakvarg, SAV and

> total strength of planets derived from SAV is good enough to time

> results effectively.

>

> Maybe knowledge of Ashtakvarg that is available in texts today is

not

> complete and may lead to confusion.

>

> Ashtakvarg system used is an effective tool in timing of events.

>

> A couple of points on Ramesh's chart.

>

> 1) In Ramesh's chart there are 2 consecutive zeroes one given by

> Venus to 7th and one by Mars to 8th.

>

> 2) Jupiter antra will be very eager to bestow authority to Ramesh

and

> also for acquisition of wealth. Between 1997/04 thru 1999/10

Ramesh

> might have been given a role of responsibility. Also a good time

to

> make investments and accumulation of wealth. Lakshami can verify

> this antra.

>

> Thanking you,

> Cheers !!!

> Ash

>

> vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar

> wrote:

> > Dear Lakshmi,

> > I think in Ramesh's case Saturn is Lord of the 9th is it not? He

> not

> > only associates a Kendra Lord but is also is in kendra being a

> trine

> > lord. He is also Lord of Navamsha Lagna aspecting Lagna, besides

> being

> > placed in a trikona. Jupiter on the other hand is Lord of 2nd and

> 11th

> > in Navamsha and in 3rd house. I would certainly treat Saturn as

> more

> > powerful than Jupiter, even if in Lagna Jupiter appears to be

with

> > greater strength. But there too he is only a Kendra Lord in

Kendra

> > associating a trine lord. Since we are talking about 7th house

> would it

> > not be right to look at the Navamsha strengths of the planets,

> before

> > coming to conclusion about 7th house? If we look at Ashtaka Varga

> then

> > SAV would rather prove my view point as it shows 7th house with

19

> > points. Personally I give more weightage to Natal chart read with

> > Navamsha. the reason is Ashtakavarga do not consider effects of

> nodes ,

> > neither do they consider house ownership or Rasi occupation

> > weightage.Your opinion would be appreciated.

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > lakshmi ramesh wrote:

> >

> > > Om Gurave Namah

> > >

> > > Namaste Chandrasekar ji,

> > >

> > > Even in Ramesh's case, Jupiter is in own house/moolatrikona.

> Please

> > > look at the ashtakavarga & bala of Saturn. Who is more

empowered

> to

> > > protect the house, based on both strength and functionality,

> Jupiter

> > > or Saturn? I request you to ponder on this.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Lakshmi

> > >

> > > */Chandrashekhar <boxdel>/* wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Lakshmi,

> > > If I may point out, in Javed's case Guru is in own house

and

> in

> > > Ramesh's case Saturn conjuncts Guru. The dictum is Sthana

> rakshati

> > > Mandah. Guru's exception to house damage occurs when he is

in

> own

> > > house.

> > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >

> > > lakshmi ramesh wrote:

> > >

> > >> Om Gurave Namah

> > >>

> > >> Namaste Pradeep ji,

> > >>

> > >> I happen to know of individuals who have strong Guru in

4th

> and

> > >> 7th. Strong Guru in 4th has blessed the individual with

> great

> > >> knowledge, an intelligence that borders on genius and a

rare

> > >> inner harmony. That person, a devout Muslim, is one of the

> finest

> > >> individuals I have ever come across, and he is very

attached

> to

> > >> his family and mother and there are no problems what so

ever

> on

> > >> the home front. This individual is highly esteemed in his

> work

> > >> environment and has all the comforts one could desire.

> Infact,

> > >> Guru in 4th is supposed to cast sukhargala on lagna, which

is

> > >> good for the general health & happiness of the person.

> > >>

> > >> The individual with Jupiter & Saturn in 7th (Dhanus) is my

> own

> > >> dear husband. We have been very happily married for nearly

20

> > >> years. My husband has prospered remarkably after marriage.

> > >>

> > >> I am posting the charts here.

> > >>

> > >> I request that you also post the charts of the individuals

to

> > >> whom you were referring in your post, for our edification

and

> > >> discussion.

> > >>

> > >> Regards,

> > >> Lakshmi

> > >>

> > >> */vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep>/* wrote:

> > >>

> > >> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > >>

> > >> I have been trying to test the principles taught by you

> > >> related to

> > >> guru in various bhavas.

> > >>

> > >> When in 3rd always some difficulties for siblings.Even

> when

> > >> in own

> > >> sign and in 4th,problems for mother and at home front.

> > >>

> > >> When in 7th at marriage front.When in Lagna and not in

> own

> > >> sign some

> > >> physical weakness and health problems in childhood.

> > >>

> > >> Thus Guru tests the individual thouroughly.

> > >>

> > >> Also sages have advised that Guru is not favourable

while

> > >> transiting

> > >> kendra houses 1,4,and 10th from moon.Only the 7th

kendra

> is

> > >> beneficial.(Is there any reason for this?) Only

> 2nd,5th,7th

> > >> and 9th

> > >> are favourable.11th being good for all planets in

> general.

> > >>

> > >> Respect

> > >> Pradeep

> > >>

> > >> vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar

> > >> <boxdel>

> > >> wrote:

> > >> > Dear Anuj,

> > >> > I am glad you agree with me. As you rightly said in

> your

> > >> message

> > >> to

> > >> > Razdan,a the dictum is pretty well known to

> astrologers.

> > >> There are

> > >> many

> > >> > shlokas to that effects and charts prove the

veracity

> of the

> > >> dictum, I

> > >> > have myself posted a few of them earlier.

> > >> > Unfortunately there is a tendency to mix up terms

like

> > >> Benefic/Malefic

> > >> > with the results a planet is likely to give. This

> happens more

> > >> with

> > >> > Jupiter as people usually tend to equate it with

> Deeksha

> > >> Guru as

> > >> his

> > >> > name in Sanskrit is Guru. People tend to forget

> Parashara

> > >> telling

> > >> when

> > >> > Guru can act as Maraka and want to attribute only

good

> and

> > >> pious

> > >> > attributes to him. I prefer to keep my personal

> feelings and

> > >> prejudices

> > >> > apart from application of astrological principles.

> > >> > Take care,

> > >> > Chandrashekhar.

> > >> >

> > >> > nameisego wrote:

> > >> >

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Respected Chandrashekhar ji.

> > >> > > Please accpet my pranams as you are the senior

most

> Guru

> > >> in age

> > >> and

> > >> > > experience in this group.

> > >> > > Your observation about Guru is absolutely right.

> > >> > > Self had posted in this group and elsewhere an

> article on "

> > >> > > "Guru Boon or Bane??" some time back where it was

> shown

> > >> Guru's

> > >> > > position in various houses which had been

> > >> destroyed/troubled by

> > >> Guru.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > "Bhava Nasha Karo Jeeva

> > >> > > Bhava Vriddhhi karau Shanih"

> > >> > > This Dictum had been proved by self.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > You may (Mr.Razdan) go thro' older postings and

read

> for

> > >> yourself and

> > >> > > check the examples that were given.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Difference between Jupiter and saturn is, Jupiter

> sucks the

> > >> goodness

> > >> > > of a house and gives fruit to houses it aspects.

> Saturn

> > >> sucks the

> > >> > > houses he aspects and increases the house it

> occupies.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Tatvam-Asi

> > >> > >

> > >> > > vedic astrology, PNRazdan

> > >> <pnrazdan>

> > >> > > wrote:

> > >> > > > Dear Chandrashekhar,

> > >> > > > You seem to be extending your arguments against

> Jupiter

> > >> still

> > >> > > further.

> > >> > > > Firstly you said that Jup is ashub in houses it

is

> a

> > >> designated as a

> > >> > > > Karka like 2,5,9,10 and 11 based on the

principle

> of

> > >> "Karka

> > >> Bhavo

> > >> > > Nasa"

> > >> > > > . Now you say that it will harm every house it is

> > >> placed in.

> > >> Why

> > >> > > this

> > >> > > > animosity with Jup, the hope of millions

believing

> in Vedic

> > >> > > Astrology

> > >> > > > (in lighter vein).

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > You refer to some dictum of a sage, source was

not

> > >> given by

> > >> you. But

> > >> > > > take out any basic book on ancient astrology. It

> always

> > >> speaks

> > >> of

> > >> > > the

> > >> > > > benefic qualities of Jupiter. Somewhere it is

even

> > >> said, that

> > >> > > howsoever

> > >> > > > bad it may be placed in, it will still try to

help

> the

> > >> subject. And

> > >> > > > this has been amply proved by our experience.

> > >> > > > I am afraid. you will have to do some more

> hardwork for

> > >> convincing

> > >> > > all

> > >> > > > about your notions of Jupiter, the heavenly

> Brahiman. This

> > >> would

> > >> > > even

> > >> > > > mean a paradigm shift in Vedic Astrology.

> > >> > > > Pran Razdan

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote:

> > >> > > >

> > >> > > > > Dear Prafulla,

> > >> > > > > Reference to Leo was in connection with what

> > >> Shubhangi had

> > >> asked.

> > >> > > > > Jupiter harming the house he is placed in is a

> dictum

> > >> given

> > >> by

> > >> > > sages

> > >> > > > > and

> > >> > > > > there is no reason to try to find out the

> reason. If one

> > >> wants to

> > >> > > > > find

> > >> > > > > the reason about Leo, consider this in natural

> zodiac

> > >> Leo is

> > >> in

> > >> > > 5th

> > >> > > > > house whose occupation by Jupiter leads to

> Karaka Bhava

> > >> Dasha. In

> > >> > > > > 11th

> > >> > > > > all planets are Shubha so it is not only

Jupiter

> who is

> > >> Shubha

> > >> > > there.

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Disha strength is one amongst many strengths

> > >> considered but

> > >> not

> > >> > > as

> > >> > > > > strong as Digbala and Jupiter gets that in

Lagna.

> > >> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > Prafulla Gang wrote:

> > >> > > > >

> > >> > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> > >> > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > In my humble view, (Jupiter may not be

> preferred in

> > >> Leo for

> > >> > > > > Muhurta,

> > >> > > > > > I do not know much about muhurta related

> > >> configurations),It may

> > >> > > not

> > >> > > > > > become weak in terms of Bala necessarily

> (generally

> > >> speaking).

> > >> > > In

> > >> > > > > > fact, jupiter in 3rd house in Libra is

> considered bad.

> > >> > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > Jupiter in 11th house (any sign) will have

> directional

> > >> strength

> > >> > > to

> > >> > > > > > initiate for results.

> > >> > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > There must be more than this reason, for

> jupiter to

> > >> give

> > >> > > negative

> > >> > > > > > results.

> > >> > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > regards/Prafulla Gang

> > >> > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > vedic astrology,

> Chandrashekhar

> > >> > > > > <boxdel>

> > >> > > > > > wrote:

> > >> > > > > > > Dear Shubhangi,

> > >> > > > > > > Being an Indian you must know that Jupiter

> looses his

> > >> > > strength in

> > >> > > > > > Leo

> > >> > > > > > > and that is why there are no Muhurtas for

> > >> marriages when

> > >> > > Jupiter

> > >> > > > > > > occupies Leo or what is called as

Simhastha.

> That

> > >> is due

> > >> to

> > >> > > the

> > >> > > > > > fact of

> > >> > > > > > > Guru lacking Bala. In your brother's case

Sun

> > >> being in

> > >> own

> > >> > > Rasi

> > >> > > > > > makes

> > >> > > > > > > him Shubha and therefore good relations

with

> > >> Father. But

> > >> I

> > >> > > would

> > >> > > > > > say he

> > >> > > > > > > would not follow father's profession.

> > >> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> > >> > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > Shubhangi Naik wrote:

> > >> > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > >Dear Sir,

> > >> > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > >Sorry for intervening in your session,

but

> I am

> > >> curious

> > >> to

> > >> > > know

> > >> > > > > > the logic behind jupiter losing its strength

> in leo

> > >> and

> > >> hence

> > >> > > this

> > >> > > > > > email.

> > >> > > > > > > >Yes, your dictum worked in my brother's

> case also.

> > >> > > > > > > >My brother has sun+jup in leo but in 8th,

no

> > >> doubt he

> > >> is very

> > >> > > > > > intelligent but did not do much well in

> academics

> > >> and yes,

> > >> he

> > >> > > did

> > >> > > > > > fail once in his 10th class.

> > >> > > > > > > >With my half knowledge I thought the

reason

> to

> > >> be the

> > >> > > > > positioning

> > >> > > > > > of both the planets in 8th, but now curious

to

> know

> > >> why jup

> > >> > > losses

> > >> > > > > > strength in leo.

> > >> > > > > > > >But though both planets are positioned in

> 8th, both

> > >> father

> > >> > > and

> > >> > > > > > son shares good relation with each other.

> > >> > > > > > > >Thanks,

> > >> > > > > > > >Shubhangi

> > >> > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > >On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 Chandrashekhar wrote :

> > >> > > > > > > >

> > >> > > > > > > >>Dear Dhira,

> > >> > > > > > > >>There you see the dictum working. Is it

> not?

> > >> > > > > > > >>Regards,

> > >> > > > > > > >>Chandrashekhar.

> > >> > > > > > > >>

> > >&

>

September 24, 2004

Dear Ash,

It is good that you at least agree that "GURU ALWAYS ASPECTS 5TH HOUSE

FROM THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN AND ITS A

PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSE SO GURU WILL NOT GIVE RESULT FOR THE HOUSE

ITS PLACED IN GENERALLY."

This is the point from which the original discussions started.

For your information much detailed interpretation of events (Beyond

what is explained in BPHS,a although based on the principles therein)

by Ashtakavarga is available in Phaladeepika, Jataka Parijata,

Jatakadesh Marg and umpteen other astrological texts. So your

information about only Parashara and Varaha Mihira is not factual.

Regards,

Chandrashekhar.

Ash wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar,

My answers in CAPS.

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

Dear Ash,

Ashtakavarga system is based on Bindus allotted to particular houses

for each of the planet with respect to its position from the planet

whose Ashtakavarga is being drawn.

ASH : YES AGREED.

The system you are using is based on considering the strengths of

planets and the Bhavas too. This is the system generally referred as

Parashari or more precisely Hora system which also encompasses

the Ashtakavarga system.

ASH : ASHTAKVARGA IS A PART AND PARCLE OF VEDIC ASTROLOGY

AND THAT IS WHAT I HAVE ALSO SAID. I HAVE SAID THAT THE SYSTEM TO TIME

EVENTS IS NOT GIVEN IN TEXTS AVAILABLE TODAY. REST CLARIFICAITON BELOW.

Ashtakavarga is primarily used to find out effects from Transit

of planets and longevity as made clear in conversation between

Maitreya and sage Parashara in BPHS. Ashtakavarga system is clearly

defined in that text.

ASH : THIS IS WHAT THE MISCONCEPTION IS. BASED ON THE TEXTS

AVAILABLE TODAY. DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT ASHTAKVARG IS USED ONLY FOR

FINDING OUT TRANSIT. IS THAT WHY PARASARA HAS SAID THAT TO USE

ASHTAKAVARGA FOR INTELLECUTAL PYGMIES OF KALIYUGA ? I DO NOT THINK SO

SIR. THE SYSTEM OF ASHTAKVARGA IS VERY DETAILED AND KAS AND VERSES OF

ASHTAKAVARGA HAVE BEEN BROUGHT FORWARD BY KRUSHNAJI WHICH ARE NOT FOUND

IN ANY BOOK TODAY. IF YOU CLAIM THAT BHPS IS COMPLETE AND THAT ALL

THAT IS AVAILABLE ABOUT ASHTAKVARGA IS FOUND AND CODED AND THERE IS NO

CORRUPTION THEN I WILL NOT INDULGE YOU ANY FURTHER.

No doubt the system can be adopted to various other predictions, as it

indicates influences on various bhavas. Its various uses have been well

documented in numerous texts besides BPHS and the very short

description of Varahamihira. The assumption that its use is not

mentioned for different uses in any other text but the two you

mentioned is not factually correct.

ASH : THE SYSTEM TO TIME EVENTS USING ASHTAKVARGA IS NOT GIVEN

CLEARLY IS IN ANY TEXTS. THAT IS WHAT I AM SAYING.

Krushna has developed different parameters and as long as the

system delivers results there should be no issue with that.

ASH : HERE I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT KRUSHNAJI HAS NOT DEVELOPED

DIFFERENT PARAMETERS AND THIS SYSTEM. HE HAD BROUGHT IT FORWARD. THIS

SYSTEM WAS KEPT IN FAMILY OF HIS GURU AND THAT WAS TRANSMITTED FROM

FATHER TO SON. KRUSHNAJI WANTED THIS SYSTEM TO REMAIN IN THIS WORLD.

THIS SYSTEM MUST HAVE BEEN IN HIS GURUS LINEAGE FOR CENTURIES. IF ONE

UNDERSTANDS THIS SYSTEM TO TIME EVENTS MAYBE WHAT AND WHY I AM

INDULDING YOU IN THIS THREAD WILL BECOME CLEAR.

It is easy to say that Parashara and Varahamihira's texts are

corrupted, and they could be. But that does not prove that the bindus

used are wrong especially as most of other parameters that you mention

are drawn from these very texts.

ASH : THE SYSTEM OF TIMING OF EVENTS USING ASHTAKAVARGA IS NOT

DIFFERENT FROM VEDIC ASTROLOGY. INFACT VEDIC ASTROLOGY IS MADE CLEAR

WITH THE PROPER USE OF ASHTAKAVARGA AND KAS. I DO NOT THINK PARASARA

LIGHTLY MENTIONED THE USE OF ASHTAKAVARGA FOR US PEOPLE IN KALI YUGA.

A LOT OF ASHTAKVARGA AND SANSKRIT SHLOKAS HAVE BEEN LOST. THIS IS WHAT

I AM SAYING OR KEPT WITH FAMILES TILL SOMEONE LIKE KRUSHNAJI COMES

ALONG AND BRINGS SUCH TECHNIQUES FORWARD. ITS A BIG CREDIT TO

KRUSHNAJI FOR BRINGING FORWARD THIS SYSTEM WITH HAS MADE TIMING OF

EVENTS SO EASY.

It is well known that Varaha Mihira was influenced by Greek

astrologers and has adopted some of their methods, so the bindus that

he attributes could also have come from them.

ASH : ONE THING. BAV IS BAV AND BASIC SCHEME SHOUL.D BE SAME.

ONLY IN BAV OF MOON AND VENUS THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. PARASARA AND

VARHARMIRA CANNOT HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS. EITHER PARASARA'S SCHEME IS

CORRUPT OR VARHARMIRAS'S. AT THE END OF THE DAY BOTH MUST MATCH. SO

ITS INFACT QUITE EASY TO SAY THAT EITHER PARSARAS OR VARHARMIRAS BAV IS

CORRPUT. I AM CONFIDENT THAT VARHRMAIRAS HAS REMAINED IN TACT OVER THE

CENTURIES AND PARASARAS BAV SCHME IS CORRPUT. IN ANY CASE I WILL GO BY

WHAT KRUSHNAJI HAS TAUGHT ME AS THIS SYSTEM WAS KEPT IN HIS GURUS

FAMILY AND HE HAS USED THAT FOR DECADES WITH CORRECT PREDICTIONS. SO

ITS TIME TESTED BY HIS GURUS LINEAGE. I AM IN NO POSITION TO MAKE ANY

JUDGEMENT BUT CAN SAY THAT I AM USNIG VARHARMIRAS SCHEME.

Since you give equal importance to Navamsha and Rasi whereas I

go by the old time system of planetary strength being derived from

Navamsha, it might not be possible for you to follow my meaning and

reasons behind attributing more strength to Saturn over Jupiter.

ASH : I AM FINDING STRENGTH USING ASHTAKVARGA BUT FOR EACH

PLANET AND FOR EACH HOUSE. YOU ARE ALSO TRYING TO FIND THE STRENGH BUT

I AM NOT CLEAR WHEN YOU SAY SHANI IS STRONGER THAN GURU BUT FOR WHAT ?

IS IT FOR EVENT OR ALL 12 HOUSES ? JUST SAYING STRONGER IS VERY

GENERAL. IF I WERE TO ASK YOU IS SHANI STRONGER THAN GURU FOR 4TH

HOUSE OR 10TH HOUSE. THIS IS HOW I AM SEETNG THINGS. AS PER THE

WORKSHEET STRENGTH GURU IS FAR BETTER FOR 10TH HOUSE AS COMPARED TO

SHANI HOWEVER SHANI IS FAR STRONGER THAN GURU FOR 4TH HOUSE MATTERS.

The question of strength of the two planets was raised by

Lakshmi and I was responding to that. I so far as influence over all 12

Rasis comment is concerned, Vedic astrology does think that planets

have influence over all Bhavas and other planets and the way the

results would manifest depend on their mutual relation.

ASH : EXACTLY. HERE IN LIES THE ESSENCE OF WHAT I WAS SAYING OR

TRYING TO SAY FOR SO LONG. THE BEAUTY OF IS THAT SAV ALREADY TAKES

CARE OF MUTUAL RELATIONS SO IT BECOMES IMPERATIVE THAT BAV IS ACCURATE

AS SAV AS U KNOW IS DERIVED FROM BAV. THAT WAS MY COMMENT ON

COMPOUNDING OF ERRORS. THIS IS WHY WHEN YOU SAY THAT SHANI IS STRONGER

THAN GURU CONFUSES ME BECAUSE YES FOR 4TH HOUSE SHANI IS STRONGER THAN

GURU BUT NOT FOR 10TH HOUSE. HERE I AM BEING VERY SPECIFIC. SO ARE

YOU SAYING THAT YOUR COMMENT ON SHANI BEING STRONGER THAN GURU WAS

CONSIDERING ALL 12 HOUSES AND THE MUTUAL PLACMENT FOR ALL PLANETS WITH

RESPECT TO EACH OTHER ? IF SO THEN I AM VERY SURE THAT YOU WILL COME

TO THE SAME CONCLUSION USING WHATEVER WAY YOU USE TO FIND THE STRENGH

OF SHANI AND GURU I.E NAVAMSA, D CHARTS OR YOGAS ETC WITH WHAT I HAVE

SHOWN IN THE WORKSHEET. THEN IF YOU COMPARE SHANI AND GURU FOR EACH

HOUSE WE WILL HAVE A MORE STRONGER BASIS FOR COMPARISION. BUT STILL

JUST USING THE WORD STRONGER I AM NOT CLEAR OR AM NOT FOLLOWING. THE

QUETSIONS THAT COMES TO MY MIND .. STRONGER FOR WHAT OR WHICH HOUSE OR

WHICH EVENT ?

About not considering Navamsha strength, I am not able

to follow what you are saying. On the one hand you say that

these being equal you do not consider Navamsha in worksheet and that

you only use Navamsha to find samdharmi and on the other hand

you say that my contention is not correct.

ASH : RASI AND NAVAMSA HAVE EQUAL STATUS AS PER THE TEACHINGS OF

KAS. NAVAMSA IS DERIVED FROM RASI. FOR THE STRENGH AND WORKSHEET ONLY

RASI IS NEEDED. IF IN CASE OF DOUBT YOU CAN GO INTO D-CHARTS AND FIND

OUT FROM THAT. I HAVE DEMONTRATED WITH AN EXAMPLE OF RAMESH'S

MARRIAGE. I WOULD HOPE THAT LAKSHMI WOULD COMMENT ON THIS PART. I

HAVE NOT SAID THAT YOU ARE NOT CORRECT. YOU ARE TRYING TO FIND THE

STRENGTH ALSO FROM NAVAMSA. AS PER KAS I FIND THE STRENGTH FROM

WORKSHEET WHICH IS FROM RASHI. FOR D-CHARTS I CAST WORKSHEET BUT ONLY

PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSE. WE DO NOT CONSIDER ASPECTS PART. SO ONLY

TOP PORTION OF WORKSHEET IS USED. WE BOTH ARE FINDING STRENGTH AND I

AM USING AV FROM RASI AND YOU ARE PROBABLY USING RASI/NAVAMSA/D CHARTS

ETC AND SIGN PLACEMENT TO FIND OUT THE STRENGTH.

Again you are talking about timing of events and the original thread is

about Guru's capacity to harm the house occupied by it.

ASH : FOR ME THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF QUESTION. AS PER KRUSHNAS

ASHTAKAVARGA SYSTEM PLANETS THAT ASPECT PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSES

I.E. 8TH FROM HOUSE UNDER FOCUS, 5TH FROM HOUSE UNDER FOCUS AND HOUSE

UNDER FOCUS FOR EXAMPLE FOR READERS IF YOU ARE TIMING MARRIAGE THEN

2ND, 7TH AND 11TH AND IF ANY PLANET HAS ASPECT ON THESE HOUSES THEN

THEY WILL NOT GIVE RESULT IN THEIR ANTRA BUT THEIR SAMDHARMI WILL GIVE

RESULT AND THE EXCEPTION IS THAT IF THE PLANET IS LORD OF 10TH FROM

HOUSE UNDER FOCUS OR 6TH THEN IT WILL GIVE.

GURU ALWAYS ASPECTS 5TH HOUSE FROM THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN AND

ITS A PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSE SO GURU WILL NOT GIVE RESULT FOR THE

HOUSE ITS PLACED IN GENERALLY. ONLY EXCEPTION IS THAT IF GURU IS IN

PISCES SO SUCH A GURU WILL GIVE THE RESULT OF TIMING OF EVENT.

SIMILARLY FOR MARS. I THINK ALSO SOMETHING SIMILAR IS SAID FOR MARS AS

PER VEDIC TEXTS. MARS ASPECTS 8TH HOUSE FROM THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN

AND 8TH HOUSE SO AS PER VEDIC TEXTS ITS ALSO SAID THAT MARS SPOILS THE

HOUSE ITS PLACED IN. FOR SHANI IT DOES NOT ASPECT ANY OF THE

SIGNIFICATOR HOUSES WHEREEVER ITS PLACED SO ITS NOT SAID TO SPOIL THE

HOUSE AND WILL DELIVER THE RESULT IF IT HAS POWER AS PER WORKSHEET. SO

IT MAY HAVE BEEN NOTED IN TEXTS AS JU SPOILS THE HOUSE IT IS PLACED IN

AND SHANI DOES NOT. MARS ALSO CAN BE SAID TO SPOIL THE HOUSE IT IS IN

HOWEVER THE EXCEPTIONS FOR ALL IS IF THE SAME PLANET ALSO RULES 10TH

AND 6TH FROM THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN IT WILL GIVE THE RESULT. THIS CAN

BE CHECKED AND I AM SURE IT WILL VALIDATE WITH YOUR EXCEPTIONS.

SO I AM NOT TAKING PART IN THE DISCUSSION AS FOR ME PERSONALLY

THERE IS NOTHING TO DISCUSS. THE BASICS OF SUCH THINGS ARE CRYSTAL

CLEAR AND CONSIDERED BY THE RULES OF KRUSHNAS ASHTAVARGA SYSTEM. I AM

VERY GLAD HOWEVER TO SEE THAT YOU HAVE BROUGHT UP THIS TOPIC.

ANOTHER THING, GURU IS A HYOCRATIC PLANET. WHENEVER ONE TRIES

TO POTRAY GURU AS BAD THERE WILL BE RESISTANCE. THIS IS THE POWER OF

GURU. I AM SITTING BACK AND READING WITH INTEREST AND SEEING THE MAYA

GURU CREATES. FUNNY ITS EASIER TO BLAME SHANI FOR THINGS AND POTRAY IT

AS BAD BUT INFACT ITS SHANI WHO IS THE PLANET OF TRUTH.

SUCH THIGNS ARE HARD FOR PEOPLE TO DIGEST AND YOU ARE GETTING SO

MUCH OF EXPLAINING TO DO. THIS ITSELF PROVES MY POINT AND YOUR POINT

ALSO.

Anyway let us await Lakshmi's comment about your observation

on Mercury Antar, though this is not part of the original discussions.

ASH : YES, IT WILL BE NICE IF LAKSHMI CAN COMMENT ON THE

MARRIAGE OF RAMESH IF IT HAPPENED IN MERCURY ANTRA AS PER KAY. IF THE

DATE IS GIVEN IT WILL BE BETTER. THIS WILL PROVE THE POWER OF THE

PLANET AS PER WORKSHEET TO DELIVER THE RESULTS AFTER FINDING OUT THE

DELAY FROM RASHI AND NAVAMSA AS BOTH HAVE SIMILAR STATUS AS PER KAS.

THANK YOU FOR THIS DICUSSION,

CHEERS !!!

ASH

Regards,

Chandrashekhar.

Ash wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar,

My answers in CAPS below.

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk>

wrote:

Dear Ash,

I forgot that you are using Krushna's Ashtakavarga system. In that case

you must be using Krushna's Ayanamsha. The system you are using is a

combination of Ashtakavarga and traditional Graha Bhava Bala system.

ASH : THE SYSTEM I USE IS KRUSHNAS ASHTAKVARG AND ITS PART

OF VEDIC ASTROLOGY. I DONT KNOW WHAT U MEAN BY GRAHA BHAVA BALA

SYSTEM. IN SHORT WE CAN COMPUTE THE STRENGTH OF EACH PLANET FOR EACH

AND EVERY HOUSE AND ALSO FOR ALL 16 D CHARTS. SO ITS VEDIC ASTROLOGY

ONLY AND NOT DIFFERENT. AS PER KAS WE DO NOT TALK IN GENERAL TERMS AS

SHANI IS STRONG OR WEAK BUT WE CAN GO INTO DETAILS AS PER POINTS AND

FIND OUT HOW A PLANET WILL ACT FOR EACH HOUSE. IN MOST CASES PLANETS

DO NOT ACT BAD FOR ALL HOUSES. IN SHANI ANTRA AS PER RAMESH'S CHART IT

WILL BE GOOD FOR 4TH HOUSE MATTERS AS COMPARED TO GURU'S ANTRA FOR 4TH

HOUSE MATTERS AT THE SAME TIME FOR 10TH HOUSE MATTESR GURU WILL BE MUCH

STRONGER THAN SHANI AS YOU CAN SEE AS PER POINTS. ABOUT NAVAMSA I

SHALL COMMENT BELOW.

There is no harm in using it as long as results come true.

However it is not a different Ashtakavarga system per se.

ASH : ASHTAKVARG IS ASHTAKVARG AND HOW TO USE IT IS NOT

GIVEN CLEARLY IN ANY TEXTS. PEOPLE ARE UNDER THE IMPRESSION BASED ON

CURRENT TEXTS THAT ITS USED TO TIME DEATH OR ITS USE IS LIMITED TO

TRANSITS WHICH IS NOT CORRECT. THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN WHAT I TRY TO SAY

AND EXPLAIN WHEN PEOPLE COMMENT ON ASHTAKVARGA AND ITS USED ONLY IN

TRANSITS. THE WHOLE SYSTEM IN WHICH ITS USED TO TIME EVENTS IS NOT

WRITTEN IN ANY BOOK OR CLASSICS DESPITE MANY MAHARISHIS LIKE PARASARA,

VARHARAMIRA ETC HAVE ALL MENTIONED ASHTAKVARGA IN THEIR TEXTS.

I was talking about a different Ashtakavarga system that you

had suggested exists.

ASH : I HAVE NOT SUGGESTED ANYTHING OF THAT KIND. KRUSHNAS

ASHTAKVARGA SYSTEM IS A SYSTEM IN WHICH WE USE ASHTAKVARGA TO FIND THE

STRENGTH OF EACH PLANET FOR EACH HOUSE. I DO NOT THINK THERE IS ANY

SYSTEM OUT THERE THAT DOES THAT. RESULTS CAN BE SEEN AT A GLANCE. FOR

EXAMPLE RAMESHS MARRIAGE MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED DURING MERCURY ANTRA.

MERCURY HAS THE HIGHEST STRENGTH IN THE CHART FOR 7TH HOUSE. AND IS LOD

OR 10TH LORD FROM 7TH HOUSE. MAHADAHSA CAN BE THAT OF SHANI. SHANI IS

SAMDHARMI TO NAKTURAL KARAK VENUS OF MARRIAGE. SO SHANI MD/ MERCURY AD

CAN GIVE MARRIAGE. THERE ARE 2 ZEROES IN BAV ONE DUE TO VENUS AND

OTHER DUE TO MARS AND MERCURY SO RESULT WILL BE IN LAST SECTOR OF

MERCURY ANTRA. MERCURY ANTRA RUNS IN SHANI MD RUNS FROM 1983/11 THRU

1986/JULY. 3RD SECTOR STARTS 1985/07 THRU 1986/07. I AM NOT GOING

FURTHER. IF THIS IS IN THE BALL PARK ITS GOOD AND ONE CAN NARROW IT

DOWN FURTHER WITH SUNS TRANSIT OVER STRONG SIGNIFICATORS FOR 7TH HOUSE

AS PER THE WORKSHEET POINTS. MAYBE LAKSHMI CAN VERIFY WHEN HER

MARRIAGE TOOK PLACE WITH RAMESH.

Varahamihira does have a slightly different bindu placement

no doubt yet it is only different by way of allowing Lagna to have one

more bindu of influence for some planet's Ashtakavarga. So it might

not mean that other planet is getting a bindu less.

ASH : THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT SCHEME THAT IS

IN TEXTS TODAY AVAILABLE GIVEN AS PER PARASARA AND WHATS GIVEN OR

PRESERVED FROM VARHARAMIRA. BOTH ARE GREAT SAGES AND THEIR BAV SCHEMES

MUST BE SAME. PARASARAS HAS BEEN CORRPUT OVER TIME. THE DIFFERENCES

IN IN BAV FOR MOONS PLACMENT FROM MOON AND GURU AND VENUS FROM MARS.

THIS HAS VERY DEEP MEANING AND SAYING FOR EXAMPLE IF VENUS GETS POWER

IF IN 4TH FROM MARS AND IF VENUS IS NOT GETTING POWER OR A BINDU IF IN

4TH FROM MARS HAS A BIG DIFFERENCE. THERE ARE ONLY 337 POINTS AND IT

WOULD MEAN THAT IF AS IN THE CASE OF RAMESHES CHART IF HIS 7TH BHAVA

GETS 19TH IT MEANS THAT THAT 1 BINDU OF FROM THE POOL OF 337 HAS GONE

TO SOME OTHER HOUSE. IF A PLANET IS IN THAT HOUSE IT MAY GET 1 BINDU

MORE STRENGTH AND IT MAY CHANGE THE ENTIRE CHART. IF THAT PLANET IS IN

4TH FROM A MALEFIC PLANET (BY MALEFIC I MEAN A PLANET WITH < 4

BINDUS EXCEPT MOON) AND IF THAT PLANET WERE TO GET STRNGTH THEN THAT

PLANET WOULD BECOME VERY STRONG FOR ALL 12 HOUSES. THAT WOULD CHANGE

THE ENTIRE COMPLEXION OF THE CHART. WITH ASKTAVARG WE ARE VERY

PARTICULAR AND THIS IS NOT A TRIVIAL MATTER. 1 BINDUS CAN MAKE A HUGE

DIFFERENCE.

I said 19 Bindus as the chart sent by Dear Lakshmi was in

that format. Varahamihira has exactly 8 shlokas on Ashtakavarga and his

is not a different system. He only has a different opinion about which

places are influenced by Lagna in case of some of the planets.

Parashara has, on the other hand, exhaustively dealt with Ashtakavarga.

ASH : THIS IS NOT TRUE. BAV SCHEMES HAVE TO MATCH. I DONT

UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING BY SYSTEMS. THE CORE AND BASIC OF

ASHTAKVARG SYSTEM IS THE BAV POINTS. IF PARASARA IS SAYING THAT MOON

IS NOT GIVING STRENGTH TO 9TH BHAVA WHEAREAS VARHARAMIRA IS SAYING IT

DOES. THIS IS HUGE DIFFERECE OUT HERE. SIMILARLY MOON IS BENEFIC IN

2ND FROM GURU AND VARHARAMIRA IS SAYING THAT 1 BINDUS STRENGTH IS NOT

GIVEN. THIS IS THE BASIC. YOU JUST CANNOT SAY THAT THE DIFFERENCE OF

OPINION IS "ONLY". THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING. IMAGINE A SYSTEM THAT IS

USED ACCURATELY FOR TIMING OF EVENTS THE SAV VALUES FROM WHICH THE

STRENGTH OF ALL PLANEST AND FOR EACH AND EVERY HOUSE IS COMPUTED AND

ITS BASED ON SAV AND SAV IS BASED ON BAV. IN THE LEAST WHAT YOU ARE

SAYING MIGHT SURMOUNT TO COMPOUNDING OF ERROR. ACTUALLY IF YOU STUDY

HOW ONE COMES TO THE POINTS THAT I HAVE DISPLAYED IN MY PREVIOUS MAILS

YOU WILL BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND WHY I AM SO PICKY WITH THIS DISTRIBUTION

OF BAV AND STICKING TO VARHARAMIRA. IF WE DIFFER ON THIS VIEW WE CAN

AGREE TO DISAGREE.

I have already given the reason I think Saturn is stronger

than Guru in reply to Lakshmi.

ASH : YES, I DID READ YOUR INTERSTING COMMENT BUT I WAS NOT

CLEAR ON WHAT YOU MEANT BY STRONGER. STRONGER FOR WHAT EVENTS ? DID U

MEAN STRONGER FOR DELIVERING RESULTS OR ALL 12 HOUSES. CAN YOU BE MORE

SPECIFIC. WHEN I GAVE THE POINTS I AM BEING VERY SPECIFIC AND

COMPARING GURU WITH SHANI FOR ALL 12 HOUSES. I AM BEING SPECIFIC IN

SAYING THAT IN GURU ANTRA RAMESH WILL HAVE MORE AUTHORITY AS COMPARED

TO SHANI. GURU IS IN UPCAHYA FROM 10TH HOUSE AND WITH 5 BINDUS. SO

ITS VERY EAGER TO GIVE 2ND AND 10TH HOUSE MATTERS. SHANI IS EAGER TO

GIVE RESULTS FOR 12TH, 4TH, 11TH, AND 3RD HOUSE IN ITS ANTRA. CAN YOU

BE MORE SPECIFIC. I DO NOT THINK SHANI IS BAD FOR EACH AND EVERY HOUSE

AND NEITHER IS GURU IN HIS ANTRA. AGAIN I AM RESTRICTING THE RESULTS

TO THE ANTRA. I THINK IF U ARE MORE SPECIFIC THEN WE MIGHT BE SAYING

THE SAME THING BUT FROM A DIFFERENT VIEW POINT.

The reason it is not reflected in the table given by you

is,as you have indicated Navamsha strength of planets is not considered

in the system you are using.

ASH : THIS IS INCORRECT. THE STRENGTH IS DERIVED FROM RASHI

AND THE WORKSHEET POINTS ARE FROM RASHI ONLY. NAVAMSA HAS EQUAL STATUS

AS COMPARED TO RASHI. WE USE NAVAMSA FOR FINDING OUT THE SAMDHARMIS

AND ALSO DELAY. ALL COMBINATIONS HAVE TO BE CHECKED FROM BOTH RASI AND

NAVAMSA. BUT FOR FINDING OUT THE STRENGH OF PLANET ITS DONE FROM

RASI. A WORKSHEET FOR EACH DIVISIONAL CHART IS ALSO CASTED.

Using Krushna's Ayanamsha the Navamsha placement of planets

could also change. If you apply the strength from Navamsha as given in

the chart provided by Lakshmi, you will see my view point.

ASH : IT WILL NOT CHANGE THINGS. I CHECKED AFTER READING

THIS COMMENT. IN BOTH CASES USING KRUSHNAS AYANAMSA AND LAHIRI SHANI

REMAINS IN LIBRA IN NAVAMSA SO ITS SAMDHARMI TO VENUS. IT WILL REPLACE

VENUS FOR THE HOUSE THAT VENUS IS UNABLE TO DELIVER RESULTS. THE

POSITION OF MARS CHANGES IN LAGNA THOUGH. MAYBE IF U SEE THINGS WITH

MARS BEING IN 12TH INSTEAD OF 11TH YOU MAY SEE MY VIEW POINT. AGAIN I

AM EMPHASISING ON THE FACT THAT STRENGTH OR THE WORKSHEET THAT I GAVE

IS COMPUTED FROM RASHI ONLY AND SAMDHARMIS IS COMPUTED FROM RASHI AND

NAVAMSA. RASHI AND NAVAMSA HAVE EQUAL STATUS AS PER KAS AND WE FOLLOW

CERTAIN RULES FOR FINDING DELAY. I HAVE DEMONSTRATED IN THIS MAIL

REGARDING MARRIAGE OF RAMESH WITH LAKSHMI. FOR THAT I HAVE COMPUTED

DELAY FOR MARRIAGE USING 2 ZEROES, AND SHANI ASPECTING PRIMIARY

SIGNIFICATOR HOUSES FROM RASHI AND THEIR LORDS IN NAVAMSA AND USING

WORKSHEET STRENGTH I HAVE COMPUTED THE TIME FRAME. IT WILL BE

INTERSTING IF LAKSHMI CAN COMMENT ON THE SAME. THERE IS A SLIGHT

DIFFERENCE IN THE WORKSHEET. SOME HOW IN HASTE MY AYANAMSA CHANGE BUT

IT WILL NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR MARRAIGE. HERE IS THE CORRECTED

VERSION OF THE WORKSHEET. MERCURY STILL HAS 18 POINTS FOR 7TH HOUSE

AND MOSTLY ALL HOUSES.

Hse

SAV Pt

Su

Mo

Ma

Me

Ju

Ve

Sa

1

25

17

20

12

20

11

7

10

2

23

9

16

14

22

14

12

3

31

16

15

12

11

4

14

7

4

26

11

17

7

23

7

10

23

5

32

12

23

9

19

16

22

15

6

32

18

16

18

21

5

8

11

7

20

10

14

9

18

11

18

10

8

19

22

12

9

25

4

17

10

9

28

8

12

14

7

5

21

3

10

34

17

13

7

16

21

16

4

11

38

16

15

21

4

15

19

12

29

10

14

11

9

8

14

15

THANKING YOU,

CHEERS !!!

ASH

Regards,

Chandrashekhar.

Ash wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar and Lakshmi,

There is a difference between a house getting 20 bindus

and a house getting 19 bindus as you are aware. I agree both are weak

with 20 bindus being a stronger than 19 bindus. At the same token if a

bhave gets 1 bindu more it means one other house is getting 1 bindu

less.

It also means that some planet has made a favourable yog w.r.t one

house and not with another. Is it not ?

I use Krushnas Ashtakvarga system as you are also aware.

In that SAV is the base from that we derive the strength

of each planet for each and every house and also for each and every 16

divisional chart. When casting the worksheet the aspects are not

considered in the D charts only the basis strength.

The BAV values given by Parasara in my opinion have

become corrupt. The BAV distribution scheme by Varharamira is

correct. The settings are also given in JHL software where you tick

off the check boxes in the lite version. If you use the option of

Varharamira you will get 20 bindus for 7th house. It would be good to

understand if you have intentionally used Parasara's scheme of BAV or

generally use Varharmiras scheme ?

To come to the final stength of each and every planet

for each house .

Here is the final strength of planet for Ramesh's chart.

These are total strength of the planets and derived by

considering the following.

1) 4:10

2) Addition of 5 points for LoD and LoE or 10th lord and

6th lord from house under consideration

3) Planets in 10th and 6th hosue from house under

consideration with > 4 bindus.

4) Planets aspecting primary significator house i.e

Karak, phal and phalit sthans.

5) Benefic/Malefic Aspects on karak, phal and phalit

sthan

5) Benefic/Malefic Aspect on planets

6) Adjustment of 12th from house under focus

7) Adjustment of 6th lord.

After meticulously considering all these factors we come

to strength of each planet for each and every house. Like that we also

compute strength for all d charts but in that we only conider the

strength for karak, phal and phalit sthan for each and every house.

You have said that Shani is stronger than Guru. Here

you can see both Shani and Guru at a glace on how they will deliver

their results in their respective antar dasha.

I do hear ya regarding the system not being different

from parasara. Actually parasara did give the BAV scheme but it has

become corrupt over time.

Here Jupiter is in 10th from 10th house so its

foritifying 10th house and also Guru is with 5 bindus in 7th house and

in multrikon so its very eager to give results for 10th house.

If you see the worksheet you can see Ju is having 22

points for 10th house and Shani has 7 points for 10th house. There is

a big difference in authority that Ramesh would have been bestowed in

the antras of Guru and Shani.

At the same time if you see expenses v/s income in Guru

and shani and compare the 11th v/s 12th points you can see more

expenses in shani compared to Guru antra.

House

Signs

SAV

Su

Mo

Ma

Me

Ju

Ve

Sa

1

Gemini

23

16

19

13

20

17

7

16

2

Cancer

24

10

15

20

23

14

16

3

Leo

30

9

21

9

19

11

13

4

Virgo

26

7

22

9

24

14

4

23

5

Libra

33

8

23

5

20

22

16

19

6

Scorpio

32

16

20

21

24

13

9

17

7

Sagittarius

20

7

19

5

25

17

12

8

Capricorn

21

15

19

9

24

9

12

9

Aquarius

29

7

17

13

11

14

22

9

10

Pisces

29

13

10

-2

17

22

9

7

11

Aries

40

11

21

10

26

14

10

19

12

Taurus

30

5

21

10

19

12

10

20

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk>

wrote:

Dear

Ash,

Even with 20 points the Bhava lacks strength, is it not? Saturn there

however extends protection. By the way I am not aware of any

Ashtakavarga system which gives differential value of Bindus/Rekhas

based on Lagna of a native or placement of a planet in a Rasi, aspects

received by it and association with other planets. May I know to which

system you are referring to and the weightage for these factors given

in that system by increasing or reducing the Bindus/Rekhas.

If you are talking about using other parameters in association with

Ashtakavarga then of course that is a different matter and would not

constitute different system than Parashara.

Regards,

Chandrashekhar.

ashsam73 wrote:

Dear

Chandrashekhar and Lakshmi

Pardon me for my intervention.

I would like to comment on Ashtakavarga.

1) It seems that you have used Parasaras scheme of BAV. With

Varharamiras scheme you get 20 points in Ramesh's 7th house.

2) For nodes are we know are not planets. They are used indirectly.

They are samdharmi to sign lord and nakshatra lord. For natural

nature as you have said or quoted in numerious posts Rahu is like

Shani and Ketu like Mars. Functionally they will be more like the

planet i.e. either sign lord or nak lord as per the points they

receive in their BAV. For example, if Rahu is in Gemini and nak of

punarvasu then it will represent Me and Ju. If say Ge is 3rd house

and in 3rd house Ju gets 5 bindus and Me gets say 6 bindus then Rahu

will act more like Mercury.

3) With regards to your comment on Ashtakavarg not using sign

placement is not entirely correct. If used with a proper system the

sign placement can give idea on quantum of result and its not used to

find timing of result. For timing of result Ashtakvarg, SAV and

total strength of planets derived from SAV is good enough to time

results effectively.

Maybe knowledge of Ashtakvarg that is available in texts today is not

complete and may lead to confusion.

Ashtakvarg system used is an effective tool in timing of events.

A couple of points on Ramesh's chart.

1) In Ramesh's chart there are 2 consecutive zeroes one given by

Venus to 7th and one by Mars to 8th.

2) Jupiter antra will be very eager to bestow authority to Ramesh and

also for acquisition of wealth. Between 1997/04 thru 1999/10 Ramesh

might have been given a role of responsibility. Also a good time to

make investments and accumulation of wealth. Lakshami can verify

this antra.

Thanking you,

Cheers !!!

Ash

vedic astrology,

Chandrashekhar <boxdel>

wrote:

> Dear Lakshmi,

> I think in Ramesh's case Saturn is Lord of the 9th is it not? He

not

> only associates a Kendra Lord but is also is in kendra being a

trine

> lord. He is also Lord of Navamsha Lagna aspecting Lagna, besides

being

> placed in a trikona. Jupiter on the other hand is Lord of 2nd and

11th

> in Navamsha and in 3rd house. I would certainly treat Saturn as

more

> powerful than Jupiter, even if in Lagna Jupiter appears to be with

> greater strength. But there too he is only a Kendra Lord in Kendra

> associating a trine lord. Since we are talking about 7th house

would it

> not be right to look at the Navamsha strengths of the planets,

before

> coming to conclusion about 7th house? If we look at Ashtaka Varga

then

> SAV would rather prove my view point as it shows 7th house with 19

> points. Personally I give more weightage to Natal chart read with

> Navamsha. the reason is Ashtakavarga do not consider effects of

nodes ,

> neither do they consider house ownership or Rasi occupation

> weightage.Your opinion would be appreciated.

> Chandrashekhar.

>

> lakshmi ramesh wrote:

>

> > Om Gurave Namah

> >

> > Namaste Chandrasekar ji,

> >

> > Even in Ramesh's case, Jupiter is in own house/moolatrikona.

Please

> > look at the ashtakavarga & bala of Saturn. Who is more

empowered

to

> > protect the house, based on both strength and functionality,

Jupiter

> > or Saturn? I request you to ponder on this.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Lakshmi

> >

> > */Chandrashekhar <boxdel>/* wrote:

> >

> > Dear Lakshmi,

> > If I may point out, in Javed's case Guru is in own house

and

in

> > Ramesh's case Saturn conjuncts Guru. The dictum is Sthana

rakshati

> > Mandah. Guru's exception to house damage occurs when he

is in

own

> > house.

> > Chandrashekhar.

> >

> > lakshmi ramesh wrote:

> >

> >> Om Gurave Namah

> >>

> >> Namaste Pradeep ji,

> >>

> >> I happen to know of individuals who have strong Guru

in 4th

and

> >> 7th. Strong Guru in 4th has blessed the individual

with

great

> >> knowledge, an intelligence that borders on genius and

a rare

> >> inner harmony. That person, a devout Muslim, is one

of the

finest

> >> individuals I have ever come across, and he is very

attached

to

> >> his family and mother and there are no problems what

so ever

on

> >> the home front. This individual is highly esteemed in

his

work

> >> environment and has all the comforts one could

desire.

Infact,

> >> Guru in 4th is supposed to cast sukhargala on lagna,

which is

> >> good for the general health & happiness of the

person.

> >>

> >> The individual with Jupiter & Saturn in 7th

(Dhanus) is my

own

> >> dear husband. We have been very happily married for

nearly 20

> >> years. My husband has prospered remarkably after

marriage.

> >>

> >> I am posting the charts here.

> >>

> >> I request that you also post the charts of the

individuals to

> >> whom you were referring in your post, for our

edification and

> >> discussion.

> >>

> >> Regards,

> >> Lakshmi

> >>

> >> */vijayadas_pradeep <vijayadas_pradeep>/*

wrote:

> >>

> >> Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> >>

> >> I have been trying to test the principles taught

by you

> >> related to

> >> guru in various bhavas.

> >>

> >> When in 3rd always some difficulties for

siblings.Even

when

> >> in own

> >> sign and in 4th,problems for mother and at home

front.

> >>

> >> When in 7th at marriage front.When in Lagna and

not in

own

> >> sign some

> >> physical weakness and health problems in

childhood.

> >>

> >> Thus Guru tests the individual thouroughly.

> >>

> >> Also sages have advised that Guru is not

favourable while

> >> transiting

> >> kendra houses 1,4,and 10th from moon.Only the 7th

kendra

is

> >> beneficial.(Is there any reason for this?) Only

2nd,5th,7th

> >> and 9th

> >> are favourable.11th being good for all planets in

general.

> >>

> >> Respect

> >> Pradeep

> >>

> >> vedic astrology,

Chandrashekhar

> >> <boxdel>

> >> wrote:

> >> > Dear Anuj,

> >> > I am glad you agree with me. As you rightly

said in

your

> >> message

> >> to

> >> > Razdan,a the dictum is pretty well known to

astrologers.

> >> There are

> >> many

> >> > shlokas to that effects and charts prove the

veracity

of the

> >> dictum, I

> >> > have myself posted a few of them earlier.

> >> > Unfortunately there is a tendency to mix up

terms like

> >> Benefic/Malefic

> >> > with the results a planet is likely to give.

This

happens more

> >> with

> >> > Jupiter as people usually tend to equate it

with

Deeksha

> >> Guru as

> >> his

> >> > name in Sanskrit is Guru. People tend to

forget

Parashara

> >> telling

> >> when

> >> > Guru can act as Maraka and want to attribute

only good

and

> >> pious

> >> > attributes to him. I prefer to keep my

personal

feelings and

> >> prejudices

> >> > apart from application of astrological

principles.

> >> > Take care,

> >> > Chandrashekhar.

> >> >

> >> > nameisego wrote:

> >> >

> >> > >

> >> > > Respected Chandrashekhar ji.

> >> > > Please accpet my pranams as you are the

senior most

Guru

> >> in age

> >> and

> >> > > experience in this group.

> >> > > Your observation about Guru is

absolutely right.

> >> > > Self had posted in this group and

elsewhere an

article on "

> >> > > "Guru Boon or Bane??" some time back

where it was

shown

> >> Guru's

> >> > > position in various houses which had

been

> >> destroyed/troubled by

> >> Guru.

> >> > >

> >> > > "Bhava Nasha Karo Jeeva

> >> > > Bhava Vriddhhi karau Shanih"

> >> > > This Dictum had been proved by self.

> >> > >

> >> > > You may (Mr.Razdan) go thro' older

postings and read

for

> >> yourself and

> >> > > check the examples that were given.

> >> > >

> >> > > Difference between Jupiter and saturn

is, Jupiter

sucks the

> >> goodness

> >> > > of a house and gives fruit to houses it

aspects.

Saturn

> >> sucks the

> >> > > houses he aspects and increases the

house it

occupies.

> >> > >

> >> > > Tatvam-Asi

> >> > >

> >> > > vedic astrology,

PNRazdan

> >> <pnrazdan>

> >> > > wrote:

> >> > > > Dear Chandrashekhar,

> >> > > > You seem to be extending your

arguments against

Jupiter

> >> still

> >> > > further.

> >> > > > Firstly you said that Jup is ashub

in houses it is

a

> >> designated as a

> >> > > > Karka like 2,5,9,10 and 11 based

on the principle

of

> >> "Karka

> >> Bhavo

> >> > > Nasa"

> >> > > > . Now you say that it will harm

every house it is

> >> placed in.

> >> Why

> >> > > this

> >> > > > animosity with Jup, the hope of

millions believing

in Vedic

> >> > > Astrology

> >> > > > (in lighter vein).

> >> > > >

> >> > > > You refer to some dictum of a

sage, source was not

> >> given by

> >> you. But

> >> > > > take out any basic book on ancient

astrology. It

always

> >> speaks

> >> of

> >> > > the

> >> > > > benefic qualities of Jupiter.

Somewhere it is even

> >> said, that

> >> > > howsoever

> >> > > > bad it may be placed in, it will

still try to help

the

> >> subject. And

> >> > > > this has been amply proved by our

experience.

> >> > > > I am afraid. you will have to do

some more

hardwork for

> >> convincing

> >> > > all

> >> > > > about your notions of Jupiter, the

heavenly

Brahiman. This

> >> would

> >> > > even

> >> > > > mean a paradigm shift in Vedic

Astrology.

> >> > > > Pran Razdan

> >> > > >

> >> > > > --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel>

wrote:

> >> > > >

> >> > > > > Dear Prafulla,

> >> > > > > Reference to Leo was in

connection with what

> >> Shubhangi had

> >> asked.

> >> > > > > Jupiter harming the house he

is placed in is a

dictum

> >> given

> >> by

> >> > > sages

> >> > > > > and

> >> > > > > there is no reason to try to

find out the

reason. If one

> >> wants to

> >> > > > > find

> >> > > > > the reason about Leo,

consider this in natural

zodiac

> >> Leo is

> >> in

> >> > > 5th

> >> > > > > house whose occupation by

Jupiter leads to

Karaka Bhava

> >> Dasha. In

> >> > > > > 11th

> >> > > > > all planets are Shubha so it

is not only Jupiter

who is

> >> Shubha

> >> > > there.

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Disha strength is one amongst

many strengths

> >> considered but

> >> not

> >> > > as

> >> > > > > strong as Digbala and Jupiter

gets that in Lagna.

> >> > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Prafulla Gang wrote:

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > > > In my humble view,

(Jupiter may not be

preferred in

> >> Leo for

> >> > > > > Muhurta,

> >> > > > > > I do not know much about

muhurta related

> >> configurations),It may

> >> > > not

> >> > > > > > become weak in terms of

Bala necessarily

(generally

> >> speaking).

> >> > > In

> >> > > > > > fact, jupiter in 3rd

house in Libra is

considered bad.

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > > > Jupiter in 11th house

(any sign) will have

directional

> >> strength

> >> > > to

> >> > > > > > initiate for results.

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > > > There must be more than

this reason, for

jupiter to

> >> give

> >> > > negative

> >> > > > > > results.

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > > > regards/Prafulla Gang

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > > > vedic astrology,

Chandrashekhar

> >> > > > > <boxdel>

> >> > > > > > wrote:

> >> > > > > > > Dear Shubhangi,

> >> > > > > > > Being an Indian you

must know that Jupiter

looses his

> >> > > strength in

> >> > > > > > Leo

> >> > > > > > > and that is why

there are no Muhurtas for

> >> marriages when

> >> > > Jupiter

> >> > > > > > > occupies Leo or

what is called as Simhastha.

That

> >> is due

> >> to

> >> > > the

> >> > > > > > fact of

> >> > > > > > > Guru lacking Bala.

In your brother's case Sun

> >> being in

> >> own

> >> > > Rasi

> >> > > > > > makes

> >> > > > > > > him Shubha and

therefore good relations with

> >> Father. But

> >> I

> >> > > would

> >> > > > > > say he

> >> > > > > > > would not follow

father's profession.

> >> > > > > > > Chandrashekhar.

> >> > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > Shubhangi Naik

wrote:

> >> > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > >Dear Sir,

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > >Sorry for

intervening in your session, but

I am

> >> curious

> >> to

> >> > > know

> >> > > > > > the logic behind jupiter

losing its strength

in leo

> >> and

> >> hence

> >> > > this

> >> > > > > > email.

> >> > > > > > > >Yes, your

dictum worked in my brother's

case also.

> >> > > > > > > >My brother has

sun+jup in leo but in 8th, no

> >> doubt he

> >> is very

> >> > > > > > intelligent but did not

do much well in

academics

> >> and yes,

> >> he

> >> > > did

> >> > > > > > fail once in his 10th

class.

> >> > > > > > > >With my half

knowledge I thought the reason

to

> >> be the

> >> > > > > positioning

> >> > > > > > of both the planets in

8th, but now curious to

know

> >> why jup

> >> > > losses

> >> > > > > > strength in leo.

> >> > > > > > > >But though both

planets are positioned in

8th, both

> >> father

> >> > > and

> >> > > > > > son shares good relation

with each other.

> >> > > > > > > >Thanks,

> >> > > > > > > >Shubhangi

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > >On Wed, 15 Sep

2004 Chandrashekhar wrote :

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > >>Dear Dhira,

> >> > > > > > > >>There you

see the dictum working. Is it

not?

> >> > > > > > > >>Regards,

> >> > > > > > >

>>Chandrashekhar.

> >> > > > > > > >>

> >&

September 24, 2004

The fact still remains. The BAV scheme given by Parasara is different from

Varharamira. This is one point and this is factual. One of them is corrupt.

I am saying the scheme Parasara has given has become corrupt over time. The

scheme Varharmira has given has been preserved in time. The two schemes cannot

be different.

I am not clear to which point you are alluding when you say that my information

about Parasara and Varharmira is not factual. The BAV scheme given by Parasara

is different from Varharamira. This was visible in Ramesh's chart when you said

using parasarsa BAV scheme when 7th bhava got 19 bindus and using Varharmiras

BAV scheme it comes to 20. I am not going into other books. The point that I

am emphasising is that BAV scheme given by Parasara or Varharmira or any other

maharishi cannot be different.

Ashtakvarga has been commented on by many maharishis as you have given but the

system of timing of events using Ashtakavarga is not given which I beleive was

a part of Vedic Astrology was saved with some families and not known to the

world.

About the part with which the discussion started is what I agree with you.

There is a part of what Noname is also saying that I agree with however I

beleive that Guru spoils the house its placed in due to its aspect on primary

significator houses. By saying Spoilt I mean it will not give the result in

his antra. Also Guru is generally with more than 5 bindus. Rarely its with <

4 bindus. The more powerful Guru is the more damage it will do by its aspect.

For Libra lagna and Cancer lagna Guru is 6th lord and will be very malefic.

In the chart given by No Names grand father also he commented that his grand

father has Guru in lagna who is powerful and he took sansaya after early

widohood. Again here a powerful guru is showing its malefic aspect on 7th

house. Again guru in lagna made no names father a famous and person as he was

known for his knowledge on samaveda. Noname has not commented on the effect it

had on 9th and 5th house but if his guru is very powerful. I am also not aware

what the lagna is but this can be the sign of a powerful guru in lagna.

Thanking you,

Cheers !!!

Ash

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

Dear Ash,It is good that you at least agree that "GURU ALWAYS ASPECTS 5TH HOUSE

FROM THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN AND ITS A PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSE SO GURU WILL

NOT GIVE RESULT FOR THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN GENERALLY." This is the point from

which the original discussions started.For your information much detailed

interpretation of events (Beyond what is explained in BPHS,a although based on

the principles therein) by Ashtakavarga is available in Phaladeepika, Jataka

Parijata, Jatakadesh Marg and umpteen other astrological texts. So your

information about only Parashara and Varaha Mihira is not

factual.Regards,Chandrashekhar.Ash wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar,

My answers in CAPS.

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

Dear Ash,Ashtakavarga system is based on Bindus allotted to particular houses

for each of the planet with respect to its position from the planet whose

Ashtakavarga is being drawn.

ASH : YES AGREED.

The system you are using is based on considering the strengths of planets and

the Bhavas too. This is the system generally referred as Parashari or more

precisely Hora system which also encompasses the Ashtakavarga system.

ASH : ASHTAKVARGA IS A PART AND PARCLE OF VEDIC ASTROLOGY AND THAT IS WHAT I

HAVE ALSO SAID. I HAVE SAID THAT THE SYSTEM TO TIME EVENTS IS NOT GIVEN IN

TEXTS AVAILABLE TODAY. REST CLARIFICAITON BELOW.

Ashtakavarga is primarily used to find out effects from Transit of planets and

longevity as made clear in conversation between Maitreya and sage Parashara in

BPHS. Ashtakavarga system is clearly defined in that text.

ASH : THIS IS WHAT THE MISCONCEPTION IS. BASED ON THE TEXTS AVAILABLE TODAY.

DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT ASHTAKVARG IS USED ONLY FOR FINDING OUT TRANSIT. IS

THAT WHY PARASARA HAS SAID THAT TO USE ASHTAKAVARGA FOR INTELLECUTAL PYGMIES OF

KALIYUGA ? I DO NOT THINK SO SIR. THE SYSTEM OF ASHTAKVARGA IS VERY DETAILED

AND KAS AND VERSES OF ASHTAKAVARGA HAVE BEEN BROUGHT FORWARD BY KRUSHNAJI WHICH

ARE NOT FOUND IN ANY BOOK TODAY. IF YOU CLAIM THAT BHPS IS COMPLETE AND THAT

ALL THAT IS AVAILABLE ABOUT ASHTAKVARGA IS FOUND AND CODED AND THERE IS NO

CORRUPTION THEN I WILL NOT INDULGE YOU ANY FURTHER. No doubt the system can be

adopted to various other predictions, as it indicates influences on various

bhavas. Its various uses have been well documented in numerous texts besides

BPHS and the very short description of Varahamihira. The assumption that its

use is not mentioned for different uses in any other text but the two you

mentioned

is not factually correct.

ASH : THE SYSTEM TO TIME EVENTS USING ASHTAKVARGA IS NOT GIVEN CLEARLY IS IN ANY

TEXTS. THAT IS WHAT I AM SAYING.

Krushna has developed different parameters and as long as the system delivers

results there should be no issue with that.

ASH : HERE I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT KRUSHNAJI HAS NOT DEVELOPED DIFFERENT

PARAMETERS AND THIS SYSTEM. HE HAD BROUGHT IT FORWARD. THIS SYSTEM WAS KEPT

IN FAMILY OF HIS GURU AND THAT WAS TRANSMITTED FROM FATHER TO SON. KRUSHNAJI

WANTED THIS SYSTEM TO REMAIN IN THIS WORLD. THIS SYSTEM MUST HAVE BEEN IN HIS

GURUS LINEAGE FOR CENTURIES. IF ONE UNDERSTANDS THIS SYSTEM TO TIME EVENTS

MAYBE WHAT AND WHY I AM INDULDING YOU IN THIS THREAD WILL BECOME CLEAR.

It is easy to say that Parashara and Varahamihira's texts are corrupted, and

they could be. But that does not prove that the bindus used are wrong

especially as most of other parameters that you mention are drawn from these

very texts.

ASH : THE SYSTEM OF TIMING OF EVENTS USING ASHTAKAVARGA IS NOT DIFFERENT FROM

VEDIC ASTROLOGY. INFACT VEDIC ASTROLOGY IS MADE CLEAR WITH THE PROPER USE OF

ASHTAKAVARGA AND KAS. I DO NOT THINK PARASARA LIGHTLY MENTIONED THE USE OF

ASHTAKAVARGA FOR US PEOPLE IN KALI YUGA. A LOT OF ASHTAKVARGA AND SANSKRIT

SHLOKAS HAVE BEEN LOST. THIS IS WHAT I AM SAYING OR KEPT WITH FAMILES TILL

SOMEONE LIKE KRUSHNAJI COMES ALONG AND BRINGS SUCH TECHNIQUES FORWARD. ITS A

BIG CREDIT TO KRUSHNAJI FOR BRINGING FORWARD THIS SYSTEM WITH HAS MADE TIMING

OF EVENTS SO EASY.

It is well known that Varaha Mihira was influenced by Greek astrologers and has

adopted some of their methods, so the bindus that he attributes could also have

come from them.

ASH : ONE THING. BAV IS BAV AND BASIC SCHEME SHOUL.D BE SAME. ONLY IN BAV OF

MOON AND VENUS THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. PARASARA AND VARHARMIRA CANNOT HAVE

DIFFERENT OPINIONS. EITHER PARASARA'S SCHEME IS CORRUPT OR VARHARMIRAS'S. AT

THE END OF THE DAY BOTH MUST MATCH. SO ITS INFACT QUITE EASY TO SAY THAT

EITHER PARSARAS OR VARHARMIRAS BAV IS CORRPUT. I AM CONFIDENT THAT VARHRMAIRAS

HAS REMAINED IN TACT OVER THE CENTURIES AND PARASARAS BAV SCHME IS CORRPUT. IN

ANY CASE I WILL GO BY WHAT KRUSHNAJI HAS TAUGHT ME AS THIS SYSTEM WAS KEPT IN

HIS GURUS FAMILY AND HE HAS USED THAT FOR DECADES WITH CORRECT PREDICTIONS. SO

ITS TIME TESTED BY HIS GURUS LINEAGE. I AM IN NO POSITION TO MAKE ANY JUDGEMENT

BUT CAN SAY THAT I AM USNIG VARHARMIRAS SCHEME.

Since you give equal importance to Navamsha and Rasi whereas I go by the old

time system of planetary strength being derived from Navamsha, it might not be

possible for you to follow my meaning and reasons behind attributing more

strength to Saturn over Jupiter.

ASH : I AM FINDING STRENGTH USING ASHTAKVARGA BUT FOR EACH PLANET AND FOR EACH

HOUSE. YOU ARE ALSO TRYING TO FIND THE STRENGH BUT I AM NOT CLEAR WHEN YOU SAY

SHANI IS STRONGER THAN GURU BUT FOR WHAT ? IS IT FOR EVENT OR ALL 12 HOUSES ?

JUST SAYING STRONGER IS VERY GENERAL. IF I WERE TO ASK YOU IS SHANI STRONGER

THAN GURU FOR 4TH HOUSE OR 10TH HOUSE. THIS IS HOW I AM SEETNG THINGS. AS PER

THE WORKSHEET STRENGTH GURU IS FAR BETTER FOR 10TH HOUSE AS COMPARED TO SHANI

HOWEVER SHANI IS FAR STRONGER THAN GURU FOR 4TH HOUSE MATTERS.

The question of strength of the two planets was raised by Lakshmi and I was

responding to that. I so far as influence over all 12 Rasis comment is

concerned, Vedic astrology does think that planets have influence over all

Bhavas and other planets and the way the results would manifest depend on their

mutual relation.

ASH : EXACTLY. HERE IN LIES THE ESSENCE OF WHAT I WAS SAYING OR TRYING TO SAY

FOR SO LONG. THE BEAUTY OF IS THAT SAV ALREADY TAKES CARE OF MUTUAL RELATIONS

SO IT BECOMES IMPERATIVE THAT BAV IS ACCURATE AS SAV AS U KNOW IS DERIVED FROM

BAV. THAT WAS MY COMMENT ON COMPOUNDING OF ERRORS. THIS IS WHY WHEN YOU SAY

THAT SHANI IS STRONGER THAN GURU CONFUSES ME BECAUSE YES FOR 4TH HOUSE SHANI IS

STRONGER THAN GURU BUT NOT FOR 10TH HOUSE. HERE I AM BEING VERY SPECIFIC. SO

ARE YOU SAYING THAT YOUR COMMENT ON SHANI BEING STRONGER THAN GURU WAS

CONSIDERING ALL 12 HOUSES AND THE MUTUAL PLACMENT FOR ALL PLANETS WITH RESPECT

TO EACH OTHER ? IF SO THEN I AM VERY SURE THAT YOU WILL COME TO THE SAME

CONCLUSION USING WHATEVER WAY YOU USE TO FIND THE STRENGH OF SHANI AND GURU I.E

NAVAMSA, D CHARTS OR YOGAS ETC WITH WHAT I HAVE SHOWN IN THE WORKSHEET. THEN IF

YOU COMPARE SHANI AND GURU FOR EACH HOUSE WE WILL HAVE A MORE STRONGER BASIS FOR

COMPARISION. BUT STILL JUST USING THE WORD STRONGER I AM NOT CLEAR OR AM NOT

FOLLOWING. THE QUETSIONS THAT COMES TO MY MIND .. STRONGER FOR WHAT OR WHICH

HOUSE OR WHICH EVENT ?

About not considering Navamsha strength, I am not able to follow what you are

saying. On the one hand you say that these being equal you do not consider

Navamsha in worksheet and that you only use Navamsha to find samdharmi and on

the other hand you say that my contention is not correct.

ASH : RASI AND NAVAMSA HAVE EQUAL STATUS AS PER THE TEACHINGS OF KAS. NAVAMSA

IS DERIVED FROM RASI. FOR THE STRENGH AND WORKSHEET ONLY RASI IS NEEDED. IF

IN CASE OF DOUBT YOU CAN GO INTO D-CHARTS AND FIND OUT FROM THAT. I HAVE

DEMONTRATED WITH AN EXAMPLE OF RAMESH'S MARRIAGE. I WOULD HOPE THAT LAKSHMI

WOULD COMMENT ON THIS PART. I HAVE NOT SAID THAT YOU ARE NOT CORRECT. YOU ARE

TRYING TO FIND THE STRENGTH ALSO FROM NAVAMSA. AS PER KAS I FIND THE STRENGTH

FROM WORKSHEET WHICH IS FROM RASHI. FOR D-CHARTS I CAST WORKSHEET BUT ONLY

PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSE. WE DO NOT CONSIDER ASPECTS PART. SO ONLY TOP

PORTION OF WORKSHEET IS USED. WE BOTH ARE FINDING STRENGTH AND I AM USING AV

FROM RASI AND YOU ARE PROBABLY USING RASI/NAVAMSA/D CHARTS ETC AND SIGN

PLACEMENT TO FIND OUT THE STRENGTH. Again you are talking about timing of

events and the original thread is about Guru's capacity to harm the

house occupied by it.

ASH : FOR ME THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF QUESTION. AS PER KRUSHNAS ASHTAKAVARGA

SYSTEM PLANETS THAT ASPECT PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSES I.E. 8TH FROM HOUSE

UNDER FOCUS, 5TH FROM HOUSE UNDER FOCUS AND HOUSE UNDER FOCUS FOR EXAMPLE FOR

READERS IF YOU ARE TIMING MARRIAGE THEN 2ND, 7TH AND 11TH AND IF ANY PLANET HAS

ASPECT ON THESE HOUSES THEN THEY WILL NOT GIVE RESULT IN THEIR ANTRA BUT THEIR

SAMDHARMI WILL GIVE RESULT AND THE EXCEPTION IS THAT IF THE PLANET IS LORD OF

10TH FROM HOUSE UNDER FOCUS OR 6TH THEN IT WILL GIVE.

GURU ALWAYS ASPECTS 5TH HOUSE FROM THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN AND ITS A PRIMARY

SIGNIFICATOR HOUSE SO GURU WILL NOT GIVE RESULT FOR THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN

GENERALLY. ONLY EXCEPTION IS THAT IF GURU IS IN PISCES SO SUCH A GURU WILL

GIVE THE RESULT OF TIMING OF EVENT. SIMILARLY FOR MARS. I THINK ALSO

SOMETHING SIMILAR IS SAID FOR MARS AS PER VEDIC TEXTS. MARS ASPECTS 8TH HOUSE

FROM THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN AND 8TH HOUSE SO AS PER VEDIC TEXTS ITS ALSO SAID

THAT MARS SPOILS THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN. FOR SHANI IT DOES NOT ASPECT ANY OF

THE SIGNIFICATOR HOUSES WHEREEVER ITS PLACED SO ITS NOT SAID TO SPOIL THE HOUSE

AND WILL DELIVER THE RESULT IF IT HAS POWER AS PER WORKSHEET. SO IT MAY HAVE

BEEN NOTED IN TEXTS AS JU SPOILS THE HOUSE IT IS PLACED IN AND SHANI DOES NOT.

MARS ALSO CAN BE SAID TO SPOIL THE HOUSE IT IS IN HOWEVER THE EXCEPTIONS FOR ALL

IS IF THE SAME PLANET ALSO RULES 10TH AND 6TH FROM THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN IT

WILL GIVE THE

RESULT. THIS CAN BE CHECKED AND I AM SURE IT WILL VALIDATE WITH YOUR EXCEPTIONS.

SO I AM NOT TAKING PART IN THE DISCUSSION AS FOR ME PERSONALLY THERE IS NOTHING

TO DISCUSS. THE BASICS OF SUCH THINGS ARE CRYSTAL CLEAR AND CONSIDERED BY THE

RULES OF KRUSHNAS ASHTAVARGA SYSTEM. I AM VERY GLAD HOWEVER TO SEE THAT YOU

HAVE BROUGHT UP THIS TOPIC.

ANOTHER THING, GURU IS A HYOCRATIC PLANET. WHENEVER ONE TRIES TO POTRAY GURU AS

BAD THERE WILL BE RESISTANCE. THIS IS THE POWER OF GURU. I AM SITTING BACK AND

READING WITH INTEREST AND SEEING THE MAYA GURU CREATES. FUNNY ITS EASIER TO

BLAME SHANI FOR THINGS AND POTRAY IT AS BAD BUT INFACT ITS SHANI WHO IS THE

PLANET OF TRUTH.

SUCH THIGNS ARE HARD FOR PEOPLE TO DIGEST AND YOU ARE GETTING SO MUCH OF

EXPLAINING TO DO. THIS ITSELF PROVES MY POINT AND YOUR POINT ALSO.

Anyway let us await Lakshmi's comment about your observation on Mercury Antar,

though this is not part of the original discussions.

ASH : YES, IT WILL BE NICE IF LAKSHMI CAN COMMENT ON THE MARRIAGE OF RAMESH IF

IT HAPPENED IN MERCURY ANTRA AS PER KAY. IF THE DATE IS GIVEN IT WILL BE

BETTER. THIS WILL PROVE THE POWER OF THE PLANET AS PER WORKSHEET TO DELIVER

THE RESULTS AFTER FINDING OUT THE DELAY FROM RASHI AND NAVAMSA AS BOTH HAVE

SIMILAR STATUS AS PER KAS.

THANK YOU FOR THIS DICUSSION,

CHEERS !!!

ASH

Regards,Chandrashekhar.Ash wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar,

My answers in CAPS below.

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

Dear Ash,I forgot that you are using Krushna's Ashtakavarga system. In that case

you must be using Krushna's Ayanamsha. The system you are using is a combination

of Ashtakavarga and traditional Graha Bhava Bala system.

ASH : THE SYSTEM I USE IS KRUSHNAS ASHTAKVARG AND ITS PART OF VEDIC ASTROLOGY.

I DONT KNOW WHAT U MEAN BY GRAHA BHAVA BALA SYSTEM. IN SHORT WE CAN COMPUTE

THE STRENGTH OF EACH PLANET FOR EACH AND EVERY HOUSE AND ALSO FOR ALL 16 D

CHARTS. SO ITS VEDIC ASTROLOGY ONLY AND NOT DIFFERENT. AS PER KAS WE DO NOT

TALK IN GENERAL TERMS AS SHANI IS STRONG OR WEAK BUT WE CAN GO INTO DETAILS AS

PER POINTS AND FIND OUT HOW A PLANET WILL ACT FOR EACH HOUSE. IN MOST CASES

PLANETS DO NOT ACT BAD FOR ALL HOUSES. IN SHANI ANTRA AS PER RAMESH'S CHART IT

WILL BE GOOD FOR 4TH HOUSE MATTERS AS COMPARED TO GURU'S ANTRA FOR 4TH HOUSE

MATTERS AT THE SAME TIME FOR 10TH HOUSE MATTESR GURU WILL BE MUCH STRONGER THAN

SHANI AS YOU CAN SEE AS PER POINTS. ABOUT NAVAMSA I SHALL COMMENT BELOW.

There is no harm in using it as long as results come true. However it is not a

different Ashtakavarga system per se.

ASH : ASHTAKVARG IS ASHTAKVARG AND HOW TO USE IT IS NOT GIVEN CLEARLY IN ANY

TEXTS. PEOPLE ARE UNDER THE IMPRESSION BASED ON CURRENT TEXTS THAT ITS USED TO

TIME DEATH OR ITS USE IS LIMITED TO TRANSITS WHICH IS NOT CORRECT. THAT HAS

ALWAYS BEEN WHAT I TRY TO SAY AND EXPLAIN WHEN PEOPLE COMMENT ON ASHTAKVARGA

AND ITS USED ONLY IN TRANSITS. THE WHOLE SYSTEM IN WHICH ITS USED TO TIME

EVENTS IS NOT WRITTEN IN ANY BOOK OR CLASSICS DESPITE MANY MAHARISHIS LIKE

PARASARA, VARHARAMIRA ETC HAVE ALL MENTIONED ASHTAKVARGA IN THEIR TEXTS.

I was talking about a different Ashtakavarga system that you had suggested exists.

ASH : I HAVE NOT SUGGESTED ANYTHING OF THAT KIND. KRUSHNAS ASHTAKVARGA SYSTEM

IS A SYSTEM IN WHICH WE USE ASHTAKVARGA TO FIND THE STRENGTH OF EACH PLANET FOR

EACH HOUSE. I DO NOT THINK THERE IS ANY SYSTEM OUT THERE THAT DOES THAT.

RESULTS CAN BE SEEN AT A GLANCE. FOR EXAMPLE RAMESHS MARRIAGE MIGHT HAVE

HAPPENED DURING MERCURY ANTRA. MERCURY HAS THE HIGHEST STRENGTH IN THE CHART

FOR 7TH HOUSE. AND IS LOD OR 10TH LORD FROM 7TH HOUSE. MAHADAHSA CAN BE THAT

OF SHANI. SHANI IS SAMDHARMI TO NAKTURAL KARAK VENUS OF MARRIAGE. SO SHANI

MD/ MERCURY AD CAN GIVE MARRIAGE. THERE ARE 2 ZEROES IN BAV ONE DUE TO VENUS

AND OTHER DUE TO MARS AND MERCURY SO RESULT WILL BE IN LAST SECTOR OF MERCURY

ANTRA. MERCURY ANTRA RUNS IN SHANI MD RUNS FROM 1983/11 THRU 1986/JULY. 3RD

SECTOR STARTS 1985/07 THRU 1986/07. I AM NOT GOING FURTHER. IF THIS IS IN THE

BALL PARK ITS GOOD AND ONE CAN NARROW IT DOWN FURTHER WITH SUNS TRANSIT

OVER STRONG SIGNIFICATORS FOR 7TH HOUSE AS PER THE WORKSHEET POINTS. MAYBE

LAKSHMI CAN VERIFY WHEN HER MARRIAGE TOOK PLACE WITH RAMESH.

Varahamihira does have a slightly different bindu placement no doubt yet it is

only different by way of allowing Lagna to have one more bindu of influence

for some planet's Ashtakavarga. So it might not mean that other planet is

getting a bindu less.

ASH : THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT SCHEME THAT IS IN TEXTS TODAY

AVAILABLE GIVEN AS PER PARASARA AND WHATS GIVEN OR PRESERVED FROM VARHARAMIRA.

BOTH ARE GREAT SAGES AND THEIR BAV SCHEMES MUST BE SAME. PARASARAS HAS BEEN

CORRPUT OVER TIME. THE DIFFERENCES IN IN BAV FOR MOONS PLACMENT FROM MOON AND

GURU AND VENUS FROM MARS. THIS HAS VERY DEEP MEANING AND SAYING FOR EXAMPLE IF

VENUS GETS POWER IF IN 4TH FROM MARS AND IF VENUS IS NOT GETTING POWER OR A

BINDU IF IN 4TH FROM MARS HAS A BIG DIFFERENCE. THERE ARE ONLY 337 POINTS AND

IT WOULD MEAN THAT IF AS IN THE CASE OF RAMESHES CHART IF HIS 7TH BHAVA GETS

19TH IT MEANS THAT THAT 1 BINDU OF FROM THE POOL OF 337 HAS GONE TO SOME OTHER

HOUSE. IF A PLANET IS IN THAT HOUSE IT MAY GET 1 BINDU MORE STRENGTH AND IT

MAY CHANGE THE ENTIRE CHART. IF THAT PLANET IS IN 4TH FROM A MALEFIC PLANET

(BY MALEFIC I MEAN A PLANET WITH < 4 BINDUS EXCEPT MOON) AND IF THAT PLANET

WERE TO GET STRNGTH THEN

THAT PLANET WOULD BECOME VERY STRONG FOR ALL 12 HOUSES. THAT WOULD CHANGE THE

ENTIRE COMPLEXION OF THE CHART. WITH ASKTAVARG WE ARE VERY PARTICULAR AND THIS

IS NOT A TRIVIAL MATTER. 1 BINDUS CAN MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

I said 19 Bindus as the chart sent by Dear Lakshmi was in that format.

Varahamihira has exactly 8 shlokas on Ashtakavarga and his is not a different

system. He only has a different opinion about which places are influenced by

Lagna in case of some of the planets. Parashara has, on the other hand,

exhaustively dealt with Ashtakavarga.

ASH : THIS IS NOT TRUE. BAV SCHEMES HAVE TO MATCH. I DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU

ARE SAYING BY SYSTEMS. THE CORE AND BASIC OF ASHTAKVARG SYSTEM IS THE BAV

POINTS. IF PARASARA IS SAYING THAT MOON IS NOT GIVING STRENGTH TO 9TH BHAVA

WHEAREAS VARHARAMIRA IS SAYING IT DOES. THIS IS HUGE DIFFERECE OUT HERE.

SIMILARLY MOON IS BENEFIC IN 2ND FROM GURU AND VARHARAMIRA IS SAYING THAT 1

BINDUS STRENGTH IS NOT GIVEN. THIS IS THE BASIC. YOU JUST CANNOT SAY THAT THE

DIFFERENCE OF OPINION IS "ONLY". THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING. IMAGINE A SYSTEM

THAT IS USED ACCURATELY FOR TIMING OF EVENTS THE SAV VALUES FROM WHICH THE

STRENGTH OF ALL PLANEST AND FOR EACH AND EVERY HOUSE IS COMPUTED AND ITS BASED

ON SAV AND SAV IS BASED ON BAV. IN THE LEAST WHAT YOU ARE SAYING MIGHT

SURMOUNT TO COMPOUNDING OF ERROR. ACTUALLY IF YOU STUDY HOW ONE COMES TO THE

POINTS THAT I HAVE DISPLAYED IN MY PREVIOUS MAILS YOU WILL BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND

WHY I AM SO

PICKY WITH THIS DISTRIBUTION OF BAV AND STICKING TO VARHARAMIRA. IF WE DIFFER

ON THIS VIEW WE CAN AGREE TO DISAGREE.

I have already given the reason I think Saturn is stronger than Guru in reply to Lakshmi.

ASH : YES, I DID READ YOUR INTERSTING COMMENT BUT I WAS NOT CLEAR ON WHAT YOU

MEANT BY STRONGER. STRONGER FOR WHAT EVENTS ? DID U MEAN STRONGER FOR

DELIVERING RESULTS OR ALL 12 HOUSES. CAN YOU BE MORE SPECIFIC. WHEN I GAVE

THE POINTS I AM BEING VERY SPECIFIC AND COMPARING GURU WITH SHANI FOR ALL 12

HOUSES. I AM BEING SPECIFIC IN SAYING THAT IN GURU ANTRA RAMESH WILL HAVE MORE

AUTHORITY AS COMPARED TO SHANI. GURU IS IN UPCAHYA FROM 10TH HOUSE AND WITH 5

BINDUS. SO ITS VERY EAGER TO GIVE 2ND AND 10TH HOUSE MATTERS. SHANI IS EAGER

TO GIVE RESULTS FOR 12TH, 4TH, 11TH, AND 3RD HOUSE IN ITS ANTRA. CAN YOU BE

MORE SPECIFIC. I DO NOT THINK SHANI IS BAD FOR EACH AND EVERY HOUSE AND

NEITHER IS GURU IN HIS ANTRA. AGAIN I AM RESTRICTING THE RESULTS TO THE ANTRA.

I THINK IF U ARE MORE SPECIFIC THEN WE MIGHT BE SAYING THE SAME THING BUT FROM

A DIFFERENT VIEW POINT.

The reason it is not reflected in the table given by you is,as you have

indicated Navamsha strength of planets is not considered in the system you are

using.

ASH : THIS IS INCORRECT. THE STRENGTH IS DERIVED FROM RASHI AND THE WORKSHEET

POINTS ARE FROM RASHI ONLY. NAVAMSA HAS EQUAL STATUS AS COMPARED TO RASHI. WE

USE NAVAMSA FOR FINDING OUT THE SAMDHARMIS AND ALSO DELAY. ALL COMBINATIONS

HAVE TO BE CHECKED FROM BOTH RASI AND NAVAMSA. BUT FOR FINDING OUT THE STRENGH

OF PLANET ITS DONE FROM RASI. A WORKSHEET FOR EACH DIVISIONAL CHART IS ALSO

CASTED.

Using Krushna's Ayanamsha the Navamsha placement of planets could also change.

If you apply the strength from Navamsha as given in the chart provided by

Lakshmi, you will see my view point.

ASH : IT WILL NOT CHANGE THINGS. I CHECKED AFTER READING THIS COMMENT. IN BOTH

CASES USING KRUSHNAS AYANAMSA AND LAHIRI SHANI REMAINS IN LIBRA IN NAVAMSA SO

ITS SAMDHARMI TO VENUS. IT WILL REPLACE VENUS FOR THE HOUSE THAT VENUS IS

UNABLE TO DELIVER RESULTS. THE POSITION OF MARS CHANGES IN LAGNA THOUGH.

MAYBE IF U SEE THINGS WITH MARS BEING IN 12TH INSTEAD OF 11TH YOU MAY SEE MY

VIEW POINT. AGAIN I AM EMPHASISING ON THE FACT THAT STRENGTH OR THE WORKSHEET

THAT I GAVE IS COMPUTED FROM RASHI ONLY AND SAMDHARMIS IS COMPUTED FROM RASHI

AND NAVAMSA. RASHI AND NAVAMSA HAVE EQUAL STATUS AS PER KAS AND WE FOLLOW

CERTAIN RULES FOR FINDING DELAY. I HAVE DEMONSTRATED IN THIS MAIL REGARDING

MARRIAGE OF RAMESH WITH LAKSHMI. FOR THAT I HAVE COMPUTED DELAY FOR MARRIAGE

USING 2 ZEROES, AND SHANI ASPECTING PRIMIARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSES FROM RASHI AND

THEIR LORDS IN NAVAMSA AND USING WORKSHEET STRENGTH I HAVE COMPUTED THE TIME

FRAME. IT WILL

BE INTERSTING IF LAKSHMI CAN COMMENT ON THE SAME. THERE IS A SLIGHT DIFFERENCE

IN THE WORKSHEET. SOME HOW IN HASTE MY AYANAMSA CHANGE BUT IT WILL NOT MAKE A

DIFFERENCE FOR MARRAIGE. HERE IS THE CORRECTED VERSION OF THE WORKSHEET.

MERCURY STILL HAS 18 POINTS FOR 7TH HOUSE AND MOSTLY ALL HOUSES.

Hse

SAV Pt

Su

Mo

Ma

Me

Ju

Ve

Sa

1

25

17

20

12

20

11

7

10

2

23

9

16

14

22

14

12

3

31

16

15

12

11

4

14

7

4

26

11

17

7

23

7

10

23

5

32

12

23

9

19

16

22

15

6

32

18

16

18

21

5

8

11

7

20

10

14

9

18

11

18

10

8

19

22

12

9

25

4

17

10

9

28

8

12

14

7

5

21

3

10

34

17

13

7

16

21

16

4

11

38

16

15

21

4

15

19

12

29

10

14

11

9

8

14

15

THANKING YOU,

CHEERS !!!

ASH

Regards,Chandrashekhar.Ash wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar and Lakshmi,

There is a difference between a house getting 20 bindus and a house getting 19

bindus as you are aware. I agree both are weak with 20 bindus being a stronger

than 19 bindus. At the same token if a bhave gets 1 bindu more it means one

other house is getting 1 bindu less. It also means that some planet has made a

favourable yog w.r.t one house and not with another. Is it not ?

I use Krushnas Ashtakvarga system as you are also aware.

In that SAV is the base from that we derive the strength of each planet for each

and every house and also for each and every 16 divisional chart. When casting

the worksheet the aspects are not considered in the D charts only the basis

strength.

The BAV values given by Parasara in my opinion have become corrupt. The BAV

distribution scheme by Varharamira is correct. The settings are also given in

JHL software where you tick off the check boxes in the lite version. If you

use the option of Varharamira you will get 20 bindus for 7th house. It would

be good to understand if you have intentionally used Parasara's scheme of BAV

or generally use Varharmiras scheme ?

To come to the final stength of each and every planet for each house .

Here is the final strength of planet for Ramesh's chart.

These are total strength of the planets and derived by considering the following.

1) 4:10

2) Addition of 5 points for LoD and LoE or 10th lord and 6th lord from house under consideration

3) Planets in 10th and 6th hosue from house under consideration with > 4 bindus.

4) Planets aspecting primary significator house i.e Karak, phal and phalit sthans.

5) Benefic/Malefic Aspects on karak, phal and phalit sthan

5) Benefic/Malefic Aspect on planets

6) Adjustment of 12th from house under focus

7) Adjustment of 6th lord.

After meticulously considering all these factors we come to strength of each

planet for each and every house. Like that we also compute strength for all d

charts but in that we only conider the strength for karak, phal and phalit

sthan for each and every house.

You have said that Shani is stronger than Guru. Here you can see both Shani and

Guru at a glace on how they will deliver their results in their respective antar

dasha.

I do hear ya regarding the system not being different from parasara. Actually

parasara did give the BAV scheme but it has become corrupt over time.

Here Jupiter is in 10th from 10th house so its foritifying 10th house and also

Guru is with 5 bindus in 7th house and in multrikon so its very eager to give

results for 10th house.

If you see the worksheet you can see Ju is having 22 points for 10th house and

Shani has 7 points for 10th house. There is a big difference in authority that

Ramesh would have been bestowed in the antras of Guru and Shani.

At the same time if you see expenses v/s income in Guru and shani and compare

the 11th v/s 12th points you can see more expenses in shani compared to Guru

antra.

House

Signs

SAV

Su

Mo

Ma

Me

Ju

Ve

Sa

1

Gemini

23

16

19

13

20

17

7

16

2

Cancer

24

10

15

20

23

14

16

3

Leo

30

9

21

9

19

11

13

4

Virgo

26

7

22

9

24

14

4

23

5

Libra

33

8

23

5

20

22

16

19

6

Scorpio

32

16

20

21

24

13

9

17

7

Sagittarius

20

7

19

5

25

17

12

8

Capricorn

21

15

19

9

24

9

12

9

Aquarius

29

7

17

13

11

14

22

9

10

Pisces

29

13

10

-2

17

22

9

7

11

Aries

40

11

21

10

26

14

10

19

12

Taurus

30

5

21

10

19

12

10

20

Thanks,

Cheers !!!

Ash

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

Dear Ash,Even with 20 points the Bhava lacks strength, is it not? Saturn there

however extends protection. By the way I am not aware of any Ashtakavarga

system which gives differential value of Bindus/Rekhas based on Lagna of a

native or placement of a planet in a Rasi, aspects received by it and

association with other planets. May I know to which system you are referring to

and the weightage for these factors given in that system by increasing or

reducing the Bindus/Rekhas.If you are talking about using other parameters in

association with Ashtakavarga then of course that is a different matter and

would not constitute different system than

Parashara.Regards,Chandrashekhar.ashsam73 wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar and LakshmiPardon me for my intervention.I would like to

comment on Ashtakavarga.1) It seems that you have used Parasaras scheme of BAV.

With Varharamiras scheme you get 20 points in Ramesh's 7th house.2) For nodes

are we know are not planets. They are used indirectly. They are samdharmi to

sign lord and nakshatra lord. For natural nature as you have said or quoted in

numerious posts Rahu is like Shani and Ketu like Mars. Functionally they will

be more like the planet i.e. either sign lord or nak lord as per the points

they receive in their BAV. For example, if Rahu is in Gemini and nak of

punarvasu then it will represent Me and Ju. If say Ge is 3rd house and in 3rd

house Ju gets 5 bindus and Me gets say 6 bindus then Rahu will act more like

Mercury. 3) With regards to your comment on

Ashtakavarg not using sign placement is not entirely correct. If used with a

proper system the sign placement can give idea on quantum of result and its not

used to find timing of result. For timing of result Ashtakvarg, SAV and total

strength of planets derived from SAV is good enough to time results

effectively.Maybe knowledge of Ashtakvarg that is available in texts today is

not complete and may lead to confusion. Ashtakvarg system used is an effective

tool in timing of events.A couple of points on Ramesh's chart.1) In Ramesh's

chart there are 2 consecutive zeroes one given by Venus to 7th and one by Mars

to 8th. 2) Jupiter antra will be very eager to bestow authority to Ramesh and

also for acquisition of wealth. Between 1997/04 thru 1999/10 Ramesh might have

been given a role of responsibility. Also a good time to make investments and

accumulation of wealth.

Lakshami can verify this antra.Thanking you,Cheers !!!Ash--- In

vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote:> Dear

Lakshmi,> I think in Ramesh's case Saturn is Lord of the 9th is it not? He not

> only associates a Kendra Lord but is also is in kendra being a trine > lord.

He is also Lord of Navamsha Lagna aspecting Lagna, besides being > placed in a

trikona. Jupiter on the other hand is Lord of 2nd and 11th > in Navamsha and in

3rd house. I would certainly treat Saturn as more > powerful than Jupiter, even

if in Lagna Jupiter appears to be with > greater strength. But there too he is

only a Kendra Lord in Kendra > associating a trine lord. Since we are talking

about 7th house would it

> not be right to look at the Navamsha strengths of the planets, before > coming

to conclusion about 7th house? If we look at Ashtaka Varga then > SAV would

rather prove my view point as it shows 7th house with 19 > points. Personally I

give more weightage to Natal chart read with > Navamsha. the reason is

Ashtakavarga do not consider effects of nodes , > neither do they consider

house ownership or Rasi occupation > weightage.Your opinion would be

appreciated.> Chandrashekhar.> > lakshmi ramesh wrote:> > > Om Gurave Namah> >

> > Namaste Chandrasekar ji,> > > > Even in Ramesh's case, Jupiter is in own

house/moolatrikona. Please > > look at the ashtakavarga & bala of Saturn. Who

is more empowered to > > protect the house, based on both strength and

functionality, Jupiter > > or Saturn? I

request you to ponder on this.> > > > Regards,> > Lakshmi> > > >> >

*/Chandrashekhar <boxdel>/* wrote:> >> > Dear Lakshmi,> > If I may

point out, in Javed's case Guru is in own house and in> > Ramesh's case

Saturn conjuncts Guru. The dictum is Sthana rakshati> > Mandah. Guru's

exception to house damage occurs when he is in own> > house.> >

Chandrashekhar.> >> > lakshmi ramesh wrote:> >> >> Om Gurave Namah> >>

> >> Namaste Pradeep ji,>

>> > >> I happen to know of individuals who have strong Guru in 4th

and> >> 7th. Strong Guru in 4th has blessed the individual with great> >>

knowledge, an intelligence that borders on genius and a rare> >> inner

harmony. That person, a devout Muslim, is one of the finest> >> individuals

I have ever come across, and he is very attached to> >> his family and

mother and there are no problems what so ever on> >> the home front. This

individual is highly esteemed in his work> >> environment and has all the

comforts one could desire. Infact,> >> Guru in 4th is supposed to cast

sukhargala on

lagna, which is> >> good for the general health & happiness of the person.>

>> > >> The individual with Jupiter & Saturn in 7th (Dhanus) is my

own> >> dear husband. We have been very happily married for nearly 20> >>

years. My husband has prospered remarkably after marriage.> >> > >> I

am posting the charts here.> >> > >> I request that you also post the

charts of the individuals to> >> whom you were referring in your post, for

our edification and> >> discussion.> >> >

>> Regards,> >> Lakshmi > >> > >>> >>> >> */vijayadas_pradeep

<vijayadas_pradeep>/* wrote:> >>> >> Dear Chandrashekhar ji> >>>

>> I have been trying to test the principles taught by you> >>

related to> >> guru in various bhavas.> >>> >> When in 3rd

always some difficulties for siblings.Even when> >> in own>

>> sign and in 4th,problems for mother and at home front.> >>> >>

When in 7th at marriage front.When in Lagna and not in own> >> sign

some> >> physical weakness and health problems in childhood.> >>> >>

Thus Guru tests the individual thouroughly.> >>> >> Also sages have

advised that Guru is not favourable while> >> transiting> >>

kendra houses 1,4,and 10th from moon.Only the 7th kendra is> >>

beneficial.(Is there any reason for this?) Only 2nd,5th,7th> >> and 9th>

>> are favourable.11th being good for all planets in general.> >>> >>

Respect> >> Pradeep> >>> >> --- In

vedic astrology, Chandrashekhar> >> <boxdel>> >>

wrote:> >> > Dear Anuj,>

>> > I am glad you agree with me. As you rightly said in your> >>

message> >> to> >> > Razdan,a the dictum is pretty well known

to astrologers.> >> There are> >> many> >> > shlokas to

that effects and charts prove the veracity of the> >> dictum, I> >>

> have myself posted a few of them earlier.> >> > Unfortunately there

is a tendency to mix up terms like>

>> Benefic/Malefic> >> > with the results a planet is likely to

give. This happens more> >> with> >> > Jupiter as people

usually tend to equate it with Deeksha> >> Guru as> >> his> >>

> name in Sanskrit is Guru. People tend to forget Parashara> >>

telling> >> when> >> > Guru can act as Maraka and want to

attribute only good and>

>> pious> >> > attributes to him. I prefer to keep my personal

feelings and> >> prejudices> >> > apart from application of

astrological principles.> >> > Take care,> >> >

Chandrashekhar.> >> >> >> > nameisego wrote:> >> >> >>

> >> >> > > Respected Chandrashekhar ji.>

>> > > Please accpet my pranams as you are the senior most Guru> >>

in age> >> and> >> > > experience in this group.> >>

> > Your observation about Guru is absolutely right.> >> > > Self had

posted in this group and elsewhere an article on "> >> > > "Guru Boon

or Bane??" some time back where it was shown> >> Guru's> >> > >

position in various houses which had been>

>> destroyed/troubled by> >> Guru.> >> > >> >> >

> "Bhava Nasha Karo Jeeva> >> > > Bhava Vriddhhi karau Shanih"> >>

> > This Dictum had been proved by self.> >> > >> >> > > You

may (Mr.Razdan) go thro' older postings and read for> >> yourself and>

>> > > check the examples that were given.>

>> > >> >> > > Difference between Jupiter and saturn is, Jupiter

sucks the> >> goodness> >> > > of a house and gives fruit to

houses it aspects. Saturn> >> sucks the> >> > > houses he

aspects and increases the house it occupies.> >> > >> >> > >

Tatvam-Asi> >> > >> >> > >>

>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >

vedic astrology, PNRazdan> >> <pnrazdan>>

>> > > wrote:> >> > > > Dear Chandrashekhar,> >> > > >

You seem to be extending your arguments against Jupiter>

>> still> >> > > further.> >> > > > Firstly you said

that Jup is ashub in houses it is a> >> designated as a> >> > >

> Karka like 2,5,9,10 and 11 based on the principle of> >> "Karka> >>

Bhavo> >> > > Nasa"> >> > > > . Now you say that it will

harm every house it is> >> placed in.> >>

Why> >> > > this> >> > > > animosity with Jup, the hope of

millions believing in Vedic> >> > > Astrology> >> > > > (in

lighter vein).> >> > > >> >> > > > You refer to some dictum of

a sage, source was not> >> given by> >> you. But> >> >

> > take out any basic book on ancient astrology. It always> >> speaks>

>> of> >> > > the> >> > > > benefic qualities of

Jupiter. Somewhere it is even> >> said, that> >> > > howsoever>

>> > > > bad it may be placed in, it will still try to help the> >>

subject. And> >> > > > this has been amply proved by our experience.>

>> > > > I am afraid. you will have to do some more hardwork for> >>

convincing>

>> > > all> >> > > > about your notions of Jupiter, the heavenly

Brahiman. This> >> would> >> > > even> >> > > > mean a

paradigm shift in Vedic Astrology.> >> > > > Pran Razdan> >> >

> >> >> > > > --- Chandrashekhar <boxdel> wrote:> >> > >

>> >> >

> > > Dear Prafulla,> >> > > > > Reference to Leo was in connection with

what> >> Shubhangi had> >> asked.> >> > > > > Jupiter

harming the house he is placed in is a dictum> >> given> >> by>

>> > > sages> >> > > > > and> >> > > > > there is no

reason to try to find out the reason. If one> >> wants to>

>> > > > > find> >> > > > > the reason about Leo, consider this

in natural zodiac> >> Leo is> >> in> >> > > 5th> >>

> > > > house whose occupation by Jupiter leads to Karaka Bhava> >>

Dasha. In> >> > > > > 11th> >> > > > > all planets are Shubha

so it is not only Jupiter who is> >> Shubha>

>> > > there.> >> > > > >> >> > > > > Disha strength is

one amongst many strengths> >> considered but> >> not> >>

> > as> >> > > > > strong as Digbala and Jupiter gets that in Lagna.>

>> > > > > Chandrashekhar.> >> > > > >> >> > > > >

Prafulla Gang wrote:>

>> > > > >> >> > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji> >> > >

> > >> >> > > > > > In my humble view, (Jupiter may not be preferred

in> >> Leo for> >> > > > > Muhurta,> >> > > > > > I do

not know much about muhurta related> >> configurations),It may> >>

> > not> >> > > > > > become weak in

terms of Bala necessarily (generally> >> speaking).> >> > > In>

>> > > > > > fact, jupiter in 3rd house in Libra is considered bad.> >>

> > > > >> >> > > > > > Jupiter in 11th house (any sign) will

have directional> >> strength> >> > > to> >> > > > > >

initiate for results.> >> > > > > >>

>> > > > > > There must be more than this reason, for jupiter to> >>

give> >> > > negative> >> > > > > > results.> >> > >

> > >> >> > > > > > regards/Prafulla Gang> >> > > > > >> >>

> > > > >> >> > > > > > vedic astrology,

Chandrashekhar> >> > > > > <boxdel>> >> > > > > > wrote:>

>> > > > > > > Dear Shubhangi,> >> > > > > > > Being an Indian

you must know that Jupiter looses his> >> > > strength in> >> >

> > > > Leo> >> > > > > > > and that is why there are no Muhurtas for>

>> marriages when>

>> > > Jupiter> >> > > > > > > occupies Leo or what is called as

Simhastha. That> >> is due> >> to> >> > > the> >>

> > > > > fact of> >> > > > > > > Guru lacking Bala. In your brother's

case Sun> >> being in> >> own> >> > > Rasi> >>

> > > > >

makes> >> > > > > > > him Shubha and therefore good relations with> >>

Father. But> >> I> >> > > would> >> > > > > > say

he> >> > > > > > > would not follow father's profession.> >> >

> > > > > Chandrashekhar.> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >

Shubhangi Naik wrote:> >> >

> > > > >> >> > > > > > > >Dear Sir,> >> > > > > > > >> >>

> > > > > > >Sorry for intervening in your session, but I am> >>

curious> >> to> >> > > know> >> > > > > > the logic

behind jupiter losing its strength in leo> >> and> >> hence> >>

> > this>

>> > > > > > email.> >> > > > > > > >Yes, your dictum worked in

my brother's case also.> >> > > > > > > >My brother has sun+jup in leo

but in 8th, no> >> doubt he> >> is very> >> > > > > >

intelligent but did not do much well in academics> >> and yes,> >>

he> >> > > did> >> > > > > > fail

once in his 10th class.> >> > > > > > > >With my half knowledge I

thought the reason to> >> be the> >> > > > > positioning> >>

> > > > > of both the planets in 8th, but now curious to know> >>

why jup> >> > > losses> >> > > > > > strength in leo.> >>

> > > > > > >But though both planets are positioned in 8th, both> >>

father>

>> > > and> >> > > > > > son shares good relation with each

other.> >> > > > > > > >Thanks,> >> > > > > > > >Shubhangi> >>

> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >>

> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > >

> > > > >> >> > > > > > > >On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 Chandrashekhar wrote :>

>> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >

>>Dear Dhira,> >> > > > > > > >>There you see the dictum working. Is it

not?> >> > > > > > > >>Regards,> >> > > > > > >

>>Chandrashekhar.> >> > > > > > > >>> >&

Take Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.

September 24, 2004

Dear Ash,

I was referring to your statement that verses not found in any book.

The reason that this is not clear to you is perhaps we are wandering

from original thread. For example you are talking about Guru being

stronger for 10th house where as if I remember right, the thread

started about Jupiter being strong for 7th house as per Lakshmi's

assessment.

Chandrashekhar.

Ash wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar,

The fact still remains. The BAV scheme given by Parasara is

different from Varharamira. This is one point and this is factual.

One of them is corrupt. I am saying the scheme Parasara has given has

become corrupt over time. The scheme Varharmira has given has been

preserved in time. The two schemes cannot be different.

I am not clear to which point you are alluding when you say that

my information about Parasara and Varharmira is not factual. The BAV

scheme given by Parasara is different from Varharamira. This was

visible in Ramesh's chart when you said using parasarsa BAV scheme when

7th bhava got 19 bindus and using Varharmiras BAV scheme it comes to

20. I am not going into other books. The point that I am emphasising

is that BAV scheme given by Parasara or Varharmira or any other

maharishi cannot be different.

Ashtakvarga has been commented on by many maharishis as you have

given but the system of timing of events using Ashtakavarga is not

given which I beleive was a part of Vedic Astrology was saved with some

families and not known to the world.

About the part with which the discussion started is what I agree

with you. There is a part of what Noname is also saying that I agree

with however I beleive that Guru spoils the house its placed in due to

its aspect on primary significator houses. By saying Spoilt I mean it

will not give the result in his antra. Also Guru is generally with

more than 5 bindus. Rarely its with < 4 bindus. The more powerful

Guru is the more damage it will do by its aspect. For Libra lagna and

Cancer lagna Guru is 6th lord and will be very malefic.

In the chart given by No Names grand father also he commented

that his grand father has Guru in lagna who is powerful and he took

sansaya after early widohood. Again here a powerful guru is showing

its malefic aspect on 7th house. Again guru in lagna made no names

father a famous and person as he was known for his knowledge on

samaveda. Noname has not commented on the effect it had on 9th and 5th

house but if his guru is very powerful. I am also not aware what the

lagna is but this can be the sign of a powerful guru in lagna.

Thanking you,

Cheers !!!

Ash

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk> wrote:

Dear

Ash,

It is good that you at least agree that "GURU ALWAYS ASPECTS 5TH HOUSE

FROM THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN AND ITS A PRIMARY SIGNIFICATOR HOUSE SO

GURU WILL NOT GIVE RESULT FOR THE HOUSE ITS PLACED IN GENERALLY."

This is the point from which the original discussions started.

For your information much detailed interpretation of events (Beyond

what is explained in BPHS,a although based on the principles therein)

by Ashtakavarga is available in Phaladeepika, Jataka Parijata,

Jatakadesh Marg and umpteen other astrological texts. So your

information about only Parashara and Varaha Mihira is not factual.

Regards,

Chandrashekhar.

Ash wrote:

Dear Chandrashekhar,

My answers in CAPS.

Chandrashekhar <boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk>

wrote:

Dear Ash,

Ashtakavarga system is based on Bindus allotted to particular houses

for each of the planet with respect to its position from the planet

whose Ashtakavarga is being drawn.

ASH : YES AGREED.

The system you are using is based on considering the strengths of

planets and the Bhavas too. This is the system generally referred as

Parashari or more precisely Hora system which also encompasses

the Ashtakavarga system.

ASH : ASHTAKVARGA IS A PART AND PARCLE OF VEDIC

ASTROLOGY AND THAT IS WHAT I HAVE ALSO SAID. I HAVE SAID THAT THE

SYSTEM TO TIME EVENTS IS NOT GIVEN IN TEXTS AVAILABLE TODAY. REST

CLARIFICAITON BELOW.

Ashtakavarga is primarily used to find out effects from

Transit of planets and longevity as made clear in conversation

between Maitreya and sage Parashara in BPHS. Ashtakavarga

system is clearly defined in that text.

ASH : THIS IS WHAT THE MISCONCEPTION IS. BASED ON THE TEXTS

AVAILABLE TODAY. DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT ASHTAKVARG IS USED ONLY FOR

FINDING OUT TRANSIT. IS THAT WHY PARASARA HAS SAID THAT TO USE

ASHTAKAVARGA FOR INTELLECUTAL PYGMIES OF KALIYUGA ? I DO NOT THINK SO

SIR. THE SYSTEM OF ASHTAKVARGA IS VERY DETAILED AND KAS AND VERSES OF

ASHTAKAVARGA HAVE BEEN BROUGHT FORWARD BY KRUSHNAJI WHICH ARE NOT FOUND

IN ANY BOOK TODAY. IF YOU CLAIM THAT BHPS IS COMPLETE AND THAT ALL

THAT IS AVAILABLE ABOUT ASHTAKVARGA IS FOUND AND CODED AND THERE IS NO

CORRUPTION THEN I WILL NOT INDULGE YOU ANY FURTHER.

No doubt the system can be adopted to various other predictions, as it

indicates influences on various bhavas. Its various uses have been well

documented in numerous texts besides BPHS and the very short

description of Varahamihira. The assumption that its use is not

mentioned for different uses in any other text but the two you

mentioned is not factually correct.

ASH : THE SYSTEM TO TIME EVENTS USING ASHTAKVARGA IS NOT

GIVEN CLEARLY IS IN ANY TEXTS. THAT IS WHAT I AM SAYING.

Krushna has developed different parameters and as long as

the system delivers results there should be no issue with that.

ASH : HERE I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT KRUSHNAJI HAS NOT

DEVELOPED DIFFERENT PARAMETERS AND THIS SYSTEM. HE HAD BROUGHT IT

FORWARD. THIS SYSTEM WAS KEPT IN FAMILY OF HIS GURU AND THAT WAS

TRANSMITTED FROM FATHER TO SON. KRUSHNAJI WANTED THIS SYSTEM TO REMAIN

IN THIS WORLD. THIS SYSTEM MUST HAVE BEEN IN HIS GURUS LINEAGE FOR

CENTURIES. IF ONE UNDERSTANDS THIS SYSTEM TO TIME EVENTS MAYBE WHAT

AND WHY I AM INDULDING YOU IN THIS THREAD WILL BECOME CLEAR.

It is easy to say that Parashara and Varahamihira's texts

are corrupted, and they could be. But that does not prove that the

bindus used are wrong especially as most of other parameters that you

mention are drawn from these very texts.

ASH : THE SYSTEM OF TIMING OF EVENTS USING ASHTAKAVARGA IS

NOT DIFFERENT FROM VEDIC ASTROLOGY. INFACT VEDIC ASTROLOGY IS MADE

CLEAR WITH THE PROPER USE OF ASHTAKAVARGA AND KAS. I DO NOT THINK

PARASARA LIGHTLY MENTIONED THE USE OF ASHTAKAVARGA FOR US PEOPLE IN

KALI YUGA. A LOT OF ASHTAKVARGA AND SANSKRIT SHLOKAS HAVE BEEN LOST.

THIS IS WHAT I AM SAYING OR KEPT WITH FAMILES TILL SOMEONE LIKE

KRUSHNAJI COMES ALONG AND BRINGS SUCH TECHNIQUES FORWARD. ITS A BIG

CREDIT TO KRUSHNAJI FOR BRINGING FORWARD THIS SYSTEM WITH HAS MADE

TIMING OF EVENTS SO EASY.

It is well known that Varaha Mihira was influenced by Greek

astrologers and has adopted some of their methods, so the bindus that

he attributes could also have come from them.

ASH : ONE THING. BAV IS BAV AND BASIC SCHEME SHOUL.D BE

SAME. ONLY IN BAV OF MOON AND VENUS THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. PARASARA

AND VARHARMIRA CANNOT HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS. EITHER PARASARA'S

SCHEME IS CORRUPT OR VARHARMIRAS'S. AT THE END OF THE DAY BOTH MUST

MATCH. SO ITS INFACT QUITE EASY TO SAY THAT EITHER PARSARAS OR

VARHARMIRAS BAV IS CORRPUT. I AM CONFIDENT THAT VARHRMAIRAS HAS

REMAINED IN TACT OVER THE CENTURIES AND PARASARAS BAV SCHME IS

CORRPUT. IN ANY CASE I WILL GO BY WHAT KRUSHNAJI HAS TAUGHT ME AS THIS

SYSTEM WAS KEPT IN HIS GURUS FAMILY AND HE HAS USED THAT FOR DECADES

WITH CORRECT PREDICTIONS. SO ITS TIME TESTED BY HIS GURUS LINEAGE. I

AM IN NO POSITION TO MAKE ANY JUDGEMENT BUT CAN SAY THAT I AM USNIG

VARHARMIRAS SCHEME.

Since you give equal importance to Navamsha and Rasi whereas

I go by the old time system of planetary strength being derived from

Navamsha, it might not be possible for you to follow my meaning and

reasons behind attributing more strength to Saturn over Jupiter.

ASH : I AM FINDING STRENGTH USING ASHTAKVARGA BUT FOR EACH

PLANET AND FOR EACH HOUSE. YOU ARE ALSO TRYING TO FIND THE STRENGH BUT

I AM NOT CLEAR WHEN YOU SAY SHANI IS STRONGER THAN GURU BUT FOR WHAT ?

IS IT FOR EVENT OR ALL 12 HOUSES ? JUST SAYING STRONGER IS VERY

GENERAL. IF I WERE TO ASK YOU IS SHANI STRONGER THAN GURU FOR 4TH

HOUSE OR 10TH HOUSE. THIS IS HOW I AM SEETNG THINGS. AS PER THE

WORKSHEET STRENGTH GURU IS FAR BETTER FOR 10TH HOUSE AS COMPARED TO

SHANI HOWEVER SHANI IS FAR STRONGER THAN GURU FOR 4TH HOUSE MATTERS.

The question of strength of the two planets was raised by

Lakshmi and I was responding to that. I so far as influence over all 12

Rasis comment is concerned, Vedic astrology does think that planets

have influence over all Bhavas and other planets and the way the

results would manifest depend on their mutual relation.

ASH : EXACTLY. HERE IN LIES THE ESSENCE OF WHAT I WAS

SAYING OR TRYING TO SAY FOR SO LONG. THE BEAUTY OF IS THAT SAV ALREADY

TAKES CARE OF MUTUAL RELATIONS SO IT BECOMES IMPERATIVE THAT BAV IS

ACCURATE AS SAV AS U KNOW IS DERIVED FROM BAV. THAT WAS MY COMMENT ON