RE: Ishta: Ramadasji, Vinay, Ajith

May 22, 2004

Dear Ramadasji (and also Vinay Patwardhan, K. Ajith),

Thanks for the lovely story, but once again I never said women are not to

allowed to worship Kartikeya or Hanuman! This is the nth time I am repeating

this in my mails. I meant to convey a different message altogether to Shubhangi

which was very contextual and which has got lost entirely and has deviated into

some other dialogue!! But it is nothing new and is typical of the VA list. Of

course regional variations are there and the Skanda Purana still holds that

Kartikeya is a brahmachari. Why only north and south, the east is completely

different. I come from the east and we pray to neither Kartikeya nor Hanuman

but largely to Shiva and the Devi in her various forms. But personally I pray

to Hanuman. Also personally I do not go for segregation of men/women and other

ritualistic strictures for worship at all as I as I find them a bit

ritualistic. But that is a personal matter.

About ishta devata delineation (this part is for Vinay and Ajith too). When we

see various other deities from the rashi and other chart we follow the

principle of the sex of the rashi and the planet and the tatva etc., but

usually for ishta devatä we stick to a Vishnu form with one of the Bhagavat

Purana mantras of the Dasavatar. The Palana devata is always a form of the

goddess. I mentioned this thread to Sanjayji and he said all this confusion

arises because he has not clearly spelled things out in Vedic Remedies and a

lot of the elaborations has been done sporadically on Varahamihira and Achyuta

Gurukulam Lists over the years or taught individually to students who then

teach on their part. He sees this as a drawback with all the knowledge

disparate and scattered which creates a lot of confusion among the students. He

is in the process of revising the VRA and hopefully it will address all the

doubts raised by Vinay in his mail to me regarding ishta and palana devata etc.

Ultimately we must be clear in our minds that Vishnu, Shiva, Adya Shakti are the

same and just different forms and names of the same Paramatma. At different

times we need to worship him in different ways according to our needs and

spiritual development. The worship in Vishnu form comes much later. I can give

my own example. I have always worshipped Shiva ardently as my ishta and it was

not until I joined SJC that I started worshipping Narayana my ishta as per my

chart. It does not mean I have stopped worshipping Shiva or have started to

revere him less, but that I am enjoying another form/mood/rupa of the Paramatma

alongside. Perhaps I was not ready for it earlier. If a person at a moment in

time is deeply attached to a non-Vishnu form, then definitely that person

should be given the mantra of that deity he is attached to and only later he

may start on a Vishnu mantra. Also apart from ishta mantra, we suggest mantras

of other deities depending on the afflictions etc. in the chart so the usual

attraction one feels towards certain deities are covered in the suggested

worship. I will give you the example of my chart again. Planets in kendra

aspecting the lagna show attraction towards particular deities. I have the Sun

clearly showing my affection for Shiva. I have Venus and Rahu in the 5th house

of mantra and bhakti clearly showing my love for the Devi ever since my

childhood. That love has only grown in leaps and bounds. So I not only received

my ishta mantra which is Narayana, but also Shiva and Devi mantras. So none of

my affections for my desired deities are affected by receiving a Vishnu mantra.

When I worship the Devi I consider her my ishta. When I worship Shiva I feel he

is my ishta. When I worship Narayana then too I know he is my ishta. Such

evolvement and realisation has happened in stages. It happens for different

people at different times in different ways. So it is not one form cutting

across another. They are just different stages of worship. Hope this clarifies

partially!

Best regards,

Sarbani

Ramadas Rao [ramadasrao (AT) (DOT) co.in] Friday, May 21, 2004

7:01 PMSarbani SarkarCc: vedic astrologySubject: Re:

[vedic astrology] RE:

` nmae naray[ay,

om namo näräyaëäya|

Dear Sarbani Ji,

Both Lord Karthikeya or Skanda and Lord Hanumaan are worshipped by men,women and

children. Lord Kaartikeeya is not a Brahmachari as in Shri Subrahmanya Sahasra

Naama Stotra ,it tells that " VALLEESHANAATHA " , He is the consort of

VALLI.This also has been mentioned in all Shloka last lines in Shri

Subrhmanyashtakam which says "VALLEESHANATHA MAMA DeHI KARAAVALAMBAM."I also

visted with family to Swamimalai near Kumbhakonam where Lord Kaartikeeyan

temple is situated.The surprise there is HIS temple is at a higher level and 18

steps are there to reach HIS temple and Lord Shiva's temple is at the ground

level.After worshipping Lord Shiva at the ground level, we have to climb 18

steps to reach Lord Karthikeya temple to worship and all men,women and children

are worshipping HIM.Here I asked the temple priests and the office bearers why

Son's temple is at a higher level than Father.Then they replied me that "once

there was a controversy was going on about the meaning of the word OM and all

Gods were not able to satisfy lord Shiva.Then Lord Karthikeya, son of Lord

Shiva told HIM that he will give the exact meaning of OM but then Lord Shiva

has to bend so that Son Kaartikeya will explain the meaning of OM to HIS

Father's ears. As a result, Lord Shiva stayed at the ground level and after

climbing 18 steps, we can reach Lord Karthikeya temple saying that the meaning

of OM is nothing but its chanting gives MOKSHA to everybody." Also there is a

Mantra " OM SHARAVANABHAVAAYA NAMAH " which if chanted everyday morning and

evening ( During Sun rise and Sun Set )108 times gives not only spiritual

strength but also sharpens the intellect.Another important information is Lord

Kartikeeya or Skanda is also a form of Lord Vishnu which can be seen in Shri

Vishnu Sahasra Naama Stotra Vide Mantra No. 36 which states like this " SKANDAH

SKANDADHARO DHURYO VARADO VAAYUVAAHANAH..... " When we know this,then it is not

wise to tell that Lord Kaartikeeya should not be worshipped by females.

Similarly in my native place of Mangalore, there is a famous temple called

KARANEEKA HANUMANTA TEMPLE where all people irrespective of men,women and

children pray to HIM and get HIS Blessings.Even my Brahmopadesham was performed

in that temple.Also we must bear in mind that Lord Hanumaan is Shiva Amsha.

So by considering all these, I must state that GOD is only one but has different

faces only and this is only satisfy common people like us.Also another thing I

obsereved is that North and South have different types of worships.I feel

sometimes the half learned priests of the temple give these ideas that certail

Gods are not to be worshipped by females etc.etc.As an Astrologer, I dont find

any difference in worship between either Lord Kaarthikeya or Lord Hanumaan.Also

it depends on one's inner mind.Suppose if the Ishta Devatha representing planet

is Kuja, either one can worship lord Kaarthikeya or Lord Hanumaan or simply

Lord Vishnu.No win that particulr chart, we observed that in Navamsha, Kuja in

Vrishabha Rashi is the indicator of Ishta Devatha. Now Vrishabha is a female

sign lorded by Shukra and how come Kuja in such a female sign represent either

Lord Kaarthikeeya or Lord Hanumaan ? Kuja is Agni Tattwa Planet who gives

Shakti or energy and such a planet is Vrishabha Rashi, does it not indicate the

Shakti form of female diety ie., Adi Parashakti or Durga etc. ? As per me we

have to look into the different signs and their characteristics and then come

to a conclusion about any kind of Devatha ie., Ishta Devatha or Palana Devatha

etc.

I hope this helps all.

With Shri Hari Vaayu Naama Smarana,

Ramadas Rao.Sarbani Sarkar <sarbani (AT) (DOT) org> wrote:

Dear Shubhangi,

I agree with you and there is as usual a lot of misinterpretations and improper

reading of mails! Its not a question of "not allow"...its more that Kartikeya

being a brahmachari and god of war, women in general are not advised to worship

Kartikeya. As for Hanuman...just got to north India...specially Delhi...Hanuman

is their guardian angel...the remover of obstacles...for men, women and

children...

Best regards,

Sarbani

Shubhangi Naik [shubhangi_naik (AT) rediffmail (DOT) com] Tuesday, May

18, 2004 2:25 PMonlyhari ; vedic astrology;

sarbani (AT) (DOT) org; ramadasrao (AT) (DOT) co.inSubject:

Dear Hari,Sarbaniji,Sajjiji,Jayshreeji,Patwardhanji,Ramdasji and all friends,I

thank you all and appreciate all of your help in trying to assist me.It appears

to me that my mail which was basically to clarify the doubts and concerns on

which ishta-detva to be prayed is on the verge of entering into

debate/controversies on kartikeya being whether worshiped by females or not. I

appreciate your having shared the knowledge to the group. But if the same hurts

anyone's feelings even unknowingly/unintentionally is not not right. Sharing

knowledge without hurting anyone's feeling is allright.India is the only

country which has variety of traditions and customs and each people function as

per their tradition and belief. Hence as some of you have already said, it is

better that we dontmake an issue of it and respect each other's beliefs and

traditions - and each ones belief and tradition is supreme to oneself.Coming to

me, let me share with you all my personal experience. I was in school then, i

visited Hanumantemple, the person in charge of that small temple (not pujari)

allowed all males to offer oil to Hanuman but did not allow me and my sister

(as we were the only 2 females present at that time)to offer. He disallowed

saying that Hanuman is celibate and that females are not allowed to offer....I

did not like it and asked him so what if he is celibate he had a mother who was

a female.What i wish to say is that it does not matter whether any particular

God is worshiped by female or not.What matter is to whoever we pray should be

our right ishta-devta...the one who can assist us overcome our problems.Hence

my humble request to you all is to help me find my ishta-devta for Mars.Many

thanks to you all.Best wishes to you all.RegardsShubhangi Archives:

vedic astrologyGroup info:

vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......

India Matrimony: Find your partner online.

May 22, 2004

om namo näräyaëäya|

Dear Sarbani Ji,

I agree with you partially.As you said if one has the attraction for a specific

GOD,then that particular GOD has to be taken as Ishta.For your information I

worship Lord Brahma, Lord Vishnu, Lord Shiva , Lord Krishna and Mother

Bhuvaneshwari and all these are my Ishta.Lord Ganapthy is the most attracting

GOD and so HE also is my Ishta Devatha.

Now regarding Lord Kaarthikeya, still I am not clarified. When Shri Subrahmanya

Ashtaka says in every Shloka last Stanza that " VALLEESHANATHA MAMA DEHI

KARAAVALAMBAM " which clearly tells that VALLI is Lord Kaarthikeya or

Subrahmanya's consort. Anyhow this is my personal opinion and I follow this and

other may differ.