Everything...ellathal .

[Guest guest]

Dear Sai,

There are various types of worship to get our prayers fulfil, archana,

aaradhana, abhisheg, and homa. Archana bestows registration of once identity

with the God through sangalp followed by mantra (sound). In India, Kerala /

Parasurama isthal is renowned for sound worship. There an istument is played

called ellathal intermittently played after drums. Shyless play ellathal to

appease. Comments on other types welcome.

Dhananjayan.BSaikumar <astrossk (AT) coolgoose (DOT) com> wrote:

Dear Mark,

Thank you for patiently answering Mukund.

Dear Narasimha,

Can we stop people from posting anything which does not encourage the study of

Astrology on this list. If people do not believe in Astrology they can go

elsewhere and pursue their materialistic pleasures.

Also, if they have some form of "IDENTITY CRISIS", I think they should find a

different forum to get their problem fixed rather than wasting time/data/disk

space/energy of many enthusiastic (to-be)astrologers on this list.

Please consider.

Regards,

Sai

Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid (AT) mchsi (DOT) com>Date:

2004/02/09 12:07:31Vedic Astrology <vedic astrology>Cc:

moksha & Everything...Dear Mukund:You bring up some very interesting

features of Jyotish.Please see below:> "monmuk111" <monmuk111 >>

Fri, 06 Feb 2004 19:29:02 -0000> vedic astrology>

2-[vedic astrology] & Venkat...2/6.... Re: Free will, karma and >

moksha> > Hello Mark and other believers in astrology:> > You talk about

"possiblities through each planet." How can a planet > millions and millons of

light years away affect the lives of a human > being here on Earth.We see all

the times,! how

celestial objects though they're millions of miles awayeffect the Earth.The Moon

we're the most aware of. It creates our Ocean's tides, for goodness sake.And

any woman will tell you her very physiology is connected to the Moon. Lady's

cycle is a lunar cycle.I was also watching a nature channel last year and they

were discussing this particular shell fish and it's birthing habits. The show

said that every full Moon in February, this particular sea animal swims back to

this particular cove off the coast of Thailand every February Full Moon.Not

only does the Moon effect the Earth, but this example alone...shows that the

effects are unique and particular too.Then, there's the Sun...which all the

news stations announced we should be aware because a certain Sun spot that was

erupting would soon be arriving and hitting our Earth and previous experience

has shown that these phenomena disturb communications satellite! s and even

cable and communications locally.Now, I do understa nd your question though in

terms of other Stars...which are literally billions and trillions of miles

away. One day I came across an Astronomy book that talked about the main star

Antares that's a red giant in the Sign of Scorpio which indeed, is in our

Astrological loop. Well, it made the point that it's soooo huge... that

literally millions of our Sun's would fit within it's circumference. In fact,

it's so big that you'd have to visualize the space between the Sun..and the

Planet Mars.. to be able to conceive about how big it is.I thought, well no

wonder every month when the Moon moves into Scorpio...no wonder that we can

feel it.And that gets to my next point.There is much that we don't understand

about life. But, one thing I know for sure, Reality is much more strange and

beautiful .... vast ...then we have any idea.The other thing I've done for over

16 years...is I've studied...the Jyotish/ the transi! ts of each and every

day.This research...which anyone can follow...so vividly...shows...how real the

predictable effects are according to Jyotish...and though we may not quite no

the mechanism... how these results come to us... but we can verify their

validity.> > There is nothing on these planets except dust and/or thick sheets

of > ice. How can these have ANY effect on a human being?> > How can chanting

mantras have any effect on a planet millions of > miles away.When we do

anything of a remedial measure in hope's of improving the quality or strength

of any Astrological planet...You have to remember.... this Astrological

symbolism of the Planets... is not supposed...to move or effect this huge body

outside of our Self...but to change and improve something about ourselves!The

Planets and their Astrological

symbolisms.... refer to us!The Sun...represe! nts our Self.....!...The Moon

represents our feeling ....self. ...When we talk about the Moon... being out

there...and having a relationship with in here!This means...that the Moon...is

symbolic as well as literal, physical effecting...us....The Moon stands for our

'feeling nature'...and the idea is very simple... that the picture of the Moon

on the exact day of our birth...is representative...of the status, strenghth

and even quality...of our emotional nature.This 'idea' in Jyotish would be very

easy to test. Make a list/group of 1,000 individuals.Give them a battery of

common, modern psychological questions related to emotional stability,and we'll

see an amazing correlation between their answers and their real emotional

strength, and the Moons in their birth charts.Most mantras involve making

ridiculous sounds from one's >

mouth while sitting in front of a picture or a stone idol?Obviously here, you

are just ignora! nt of the powerful and very real, positive effects ofVedic

mantras. Anyone who's ever experienced meditation using mantras will tell

youthey have very real and powerful effects.Also, if there's any area of Vedic

wisdom that's been the most powerfully studied according to modern science,

it's in the area of mantra repetition and meditation.check out, there are over

550 scientific studies that have been done, by very reputable, independent

scientific groups and published in the best journals in the world, from

Scientific American to Science magazine...on and on...And these show the power

of mantra meditation to make tremendous, powerful changes in human physiology,

lowering high blood pressure, to reducing stress, and even Psychological

changes, and even IQ...is improved though this is a benfit that comes from

slightly

longer duration of mantra practice.These > planets appear human like in the

pictures(Rahu w! ith a Black, angry > face and big moustche, Jupiter with a

hand som face with no moustace--> does this mean Jupiter shaves and Rahu

doesn't?). Why don't we > worship before a REAL picture of Jupiter or Saturn

where they look > ROUND with astroid mark all over them. > > How about real

pictures of Rahu and Ketu??? Well, Rahu and Ketu > are "pretend planets" so

they won't have a real picture. And, if R&K > are "pretend planets," then why

do they have a Mahadasa? -- Do you > guys realize how irrational this sound? >

> How can wearing planetary stones have any effect on one's life or how > can

it affect the planet itself?????Again, have you ever had any experience with

these things?Many millions of people for centuries..have documented by there

personal experiences...the beneficial effects of things like gems.Personally, I

don't think gems are as powerful as some jyotish remedies but still they'revery

real.Do you realize how ridiculous > the planetary stones are???? Jupiter looks

yellowish red from Earth, > but the acutal color of Jupiter is same as the

color of dust in any > other planet SO why is a YELLOW stone prescribed to FIX

Jupiter > problems when the REAL color of Jupite isn't really yellow? > > Moon

just appears WHITE, but the real color of MOON is brown so why > is a white

pearl prescribed to FIX Moon problems, why isn't a BROWN > colored stone worn

for Moon when Brown is its real color?> > How about the deaded sade-sati? How

can world's 3/12 population just > began to have the wrost time of their life

ALL AT THE SAME TIME? Sade sat doesn't mean everyone at the same time. But, if

you watch the Moon,especially in terms of the Transits...you'd know that Saturn,

for example has an extraordinary effect on the human heartand feeling!

nature...(ie the Moon).I can send you dozens of my students w ho individually

can verify these experiences...And > how can wearing of an iron ring or making

ridiculous sounding noises > from one's mouth in form of mantras APEASE an

INANIMATE planet of > dust and ice a million light years away?Don't forget the

remedial measures...aren't meant to try and effect a celestial body..out

there...but ...the nature of ourselves...inside,...here...But, this symbolism

of Astrology.... that 'we' are made up out of Star stuff...That we, all have a

nature...that Astrology quite nicely captures...speaks to the very heart of

Astorlogy.I'm writing a book right now on Astrology...and the main aspect of

this book is thatthere is an amazing correlation between the symbolisms....of

Astrology...and the very real and undeniable nature of individuals...I'd

challenge

you to any test...regarding this...Put together a list o! f 10, 100 or 1,000

people and any good Jyotish Astrologerwill be able to guess what their human

nature is like!> > Planets control nothing, planets harms nobody, planets help

nobody. > And, it they do then how are we going to account for millions and >

millions of other planets (in addition to the 7 known)in the galaxy.> > And,

Moon isn't even a planet, it is a sattelite of the Earth. And, > how about the

satellites of Jupiter--lots of them? Which Gods do they > represent? are they

malefic or benefic?> > So people, forget this mumbo-jumbo about planet

controlling your > live. You are the maker and the breaker of your own

destiny--work > hard, live righteous and forget about these planets and

Jyothishas.Now, finally, we can find something to agree about...We are the

makers and

creators of our destiny! and our fates...So,! yes, go for it!... But, that

doesn't mean that we can't take advantag eof the tremendous wisdom that's there

to help us...especially if we're in an area of our life that's challenging us

and we're at lost quitehow to understand...I love the great Swami Yogananda's

expression about Jyotish.Though he liked it and appreciated it's power...he was

of the Consciousness approachto Vedic knowledge...and said:"Find me the worst

day in this year, according to my chart...and I will accomplish anythingon that

day!"I agree with that... though this is more shows the huge potential of

Consciounsess...to transcend...the influences of one's past....and rise to a

level of human dignity and potential...which is greatly hinted at by Vedic

Wisdom!take careMark KincaidPS....I don't know if you've heard, but I also

write

a Jyotish newsletter. It includes a daily, Transits newsletter as well as other

aspects of Jyotish as well. If! you, or anyone else in this group is

interested, in subscribing, feel free to contact me personally at:

m.kincaid (AT) mchsi (DOT) com And the newsletter is free.> > Mukund> > > > --- In

vedic astrology, Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...> > wrote:>> Dear

Venkat:>> >> >> >> I find that all possibilities are possible through each

planet.>> >> The key is deciphering and learning how to get more in-tune with >

that>> Planet.>> >> Saturn is hard only because we don't know how to get in-tune

with > him.>> >> We live in a vata deranged world where rest and rejuvenation

and > saturn's>> natural

shiva silence is not followed.>> >> But, each step that you take towards Saturn.

In hum! ility and > surrender,>> Saturn is appeased and pleas ed.>> >> Study

the positive significations of Saturn and then aspire to be > more>> in-tune

with those...>> >> Rest,>> rejuvenation,>> study the cyles of Nature,>> like

the Moon cycle, for example...>> As I've watched that for years now, and then

learned how to follow > the>> flowings of that cycle, I could sense that Saturn

was happier.>> >> Saturn means the integrative part of us, between silence and >

activity...>> so meditation,>> yoga,>> pranayama, >> Ayurved!>> many things

promote stronger Saturn....>> >> The way you'll be able to tell that your

Saturn's getting more >

balanced...>> is the negative, malefic signs of it...will start diminishing...>>

>> Good luck....>> >> I have Saturn sliding through my 9th! house, right

now...and > normally it>> would have been more malefic, but since I've been

desiring that my > Saturn>> too becomes more benefic,....>> >> even this

transit is bringing me some great experiences...of the > 9th house>>

variety...>> >> >> Take care>> >> >> >> Mark Kincaid>> >> >> >> >> PS....I

don't know if you've heard, but I also write a Jyotish > newsletter.>> It

includes a daily, Transits newsletter as well as other aspects > of Jyotish>>

as well. If you, or anyone else in this group is interested, in>> subscribing,

feel free to contact me

personally at: m.kincaid@m... > And>> the newsletter is free.>> >> >> >> >> >>

>>> "venka! tarama_sastry" <venkatarama_sastry>>>> F ri, 06

Feb 2004 14:58:12 -0000>>> vedic astrology>>> Subject:

2-[vedic astrology] & Mukund....2/5.... Re: Free will, > karma and>>>

moksha>>> >>> Dear Prashant, >>> >>> Ah, I wish I was blessed with Jupiter and

Saturn conjuction to>>> obtain the Brahma Yoga! My Saturn is in Jupiter's Rasi

(Pisces), > in>>> the 9th house of Dharma, so maybe I will have some slight

glimpse > of>>> this knowledge sometime in this lifetime! I hope so, I really

hope>>> so. >>> >>> That was a great link, thanks for sending it

out.>>> >>> Venkat>>> >>> vedic astrology, prashant

narang>>> <prashantnarang> wrote:>>>> dear mark,>>>> that was really

wonderfu! l !!>>>> those 3kind of karmas r drida(fixed), adridha(not fixed),>>>

dridadrdha( semi fixed).>>>> jupiter & saturn conjunction makes brahma yoga

which gives>>> knowledge of life /creation.>>>> >>>> & mukund , here is a link

for u, this might b helpful>>>> http://spiritualseven.org/art_karma.htm>>>>

>>>> regards>>>> prashant>>>> >>>> Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:>>>>

Dear Mukund & All:>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>

>>>> Wow.... you're way jumping to the wrong conclusions here...>>>> >>>> Let me

first say that you're mixing up destiny with something > that>>> can't be>>>>

changed. Even Vedic! science...which comes from Lord Krishna..>>>> > ;>>>

says...that there are basically 3 areas of karmas that can be>>>

changed....>>>> >>>> Some that are more easy, others that are more difficult

and still>>> others>>>> that are the most difficult.>>>> >>>> However,.... you

make one good point that.... destiny doesn't > mean>>> lack of>>>> free

will.>>>> >>>> Destiny means karma that we've produced from the past.>>>> >>>>

As such we're meant to understand and grow through and with

our>>> past karmas>>>> to evolve in the present and the future.>>>> >>>> If

there was no choice..there would be no joy, we would be like>>> robots...>>>>

>>>> If you're going to define destiny as what happens...then nothing>! >> can

be>>>> changed... but... the whole universe is not the destiny of the>>>

lord...>>>> he's not a slave to something...>>>> >>>> It came out

beautifully.... profoundly wrapped in eternal > freedom.>>>> >>>> Man, who was

born in God's image, means...born with the ability > to>>> reflect>>>> his own

divine, Cosmic, enlightened...consciousness....>>>> >>>> and at every step

along that path.... we have the potential to>>> express

more>>>> and more freedom....of life...>>>> >>>> I think you're mixing up the

will of God...destiny and man's will>>> and>>>> choices...>>>> >>>> What we are

living...is both God's will and our will.>>>> >>>> ! It is 'we' who have chosen

these actions and as a result produced& gt;>> these>>>> consequences....>>>>

>>>> God is within,...the ultimate source.... but... it's dangerous to>>>

assume>>>> that God is the author...and we are not...>>>> >>>> God may be the

ultimate source... but we are participating in > that>>> adventure>>>> and

karma is all about actions haveing been done in the past...>>>> >>>> go out

into the universe....striking every bit of

the>>> creation...and then>>>> coming back...>>>> >>>> We do have and it's very

important that we view our choices as > our>>> choices.>>>> >>>> We need to

take responsibility..... and in responsibility we > grasp>>> the power>>>> to

make any change ...that is possible.! >>>> >>>> In the west we say, after Lord

Christ... if your faith was as>>> great as you>>>> bunyan seed.... you could

move mountains...>>>> >>>> Well, in the east they have similar

expressions....>>>> >>>> That man's Consciounsess is indeed unbounded...>>>>

and the more that we reflect that unbounded potential of>>>

consciounsess...>>>> we will gain the ability...>>>> to do anything, to

accomplish everything...>>>> >>>> We should think how great is a man's nature

and potential...and>>> not limit>>>> ourselves or our thinkings...as we're

understanding...>>>> the power of destiny or fate...>>>> >>>> And

finally....Saturn rules our fate or destiny....>>>> and yet...>&g! t;>> Jupiter

rules faith and freedom....>>>> >>>> >>>> Both planets together...make

life...>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> take care>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mark Kincaid>>>>

>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> "monmuk111" <monmuk111>>>>>> Thu, 05

Feb 2004

17:59:01 -0000>>>>> vedic astrology>>>>> Subject:

[vedic astrology] Re: Free will, karma and moksha>>>>> >>>>> Hello Siva:>>>>>

>>>>> I've asked these same questions over and over and over again and>>>>>

yours is the best reply I've ever received.>>>>> >>>>> No Jyotisha can make a

predict! ion, if they can, itdefeats the>>> purpose>>>>> of destiny created by

Lord Brahma (the creator) when we're > born.>>>>> >>>>> Even if some Jyotisha

makes a prediction, theprediction itself>>> cannot>>>>> CHANGE the destiny nor

the actual manifestation destiny of that>>>>> individual as only Lord

Vishnu/Krishna (the operator) can decide>>>

how>>>>> the destiny will manifest itself through ourmundane lives.>>>>> >>>>>

And, even if some Jyotisha figured out a way to change destiny > or>>>>> change

the means by with destiny manifest itself, NO Jyotisha > can>>>>> change the

will of Lord Mahesh/Siva (the destroyer) as ALL > living>>>>> beings have to

die/destruct and the cycle of life and birth>! >> continues.>>>>> >>>>> T o

conclude, Jyotish CANNOT change the destiny of a person AND>>>>> Jyotish CANNOT

change the way destiny manifest itself.>>>>> >>>>> It is useless to run after

Jyotishs and "Godmen/Godwomen" as it>>>>> accomplishes NOTHING except temorary

hopes of "raj yog" > and "this>>>>> yog" and "that yog" that thes

Jyothish/Godmen/women predict > until>>>>> the individual realizes that destiny

is unpredictable and EVEN>>> MORE,>>>>> if destiny could be predicted, it

cannot be changed.>>>>> >>>>> So people, forget all this mumbo-jumbo about

navamsha chart, > hora>>>>> chart, trishamsa chart, this chart, that chart and

all the>>> million>>>>> other charts that these Jyotish invent as these charts

CHANGE>>> NOTHING.>&g! t;>>> >>>>> Lord Krishna told us to perform righteous

karma in fulfilling > our>>>>> dharma towards our spouses, kids, parents,

society, etc. and>>> that is>>>>> all that we need to do--perform righteous

Karma to fulfill our>>> dharma>>>>> AND forget all these Jyotishis and

God-people.>>>>> >>>>> Mukund>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- In

vedic astrology, "schinnas">>> <schinnas>>>>>>

wrote:>>>>>> Dear Sharada-ji,>>>>>> >>>>>> Though this question is not for me,

let me venture in with my>>>>>> opinions.>>>>>> >>>>>> Questions (1), (2) and

(! 3) can (and should) be properly>>> explained>>& gt;>>> only by self-realized

a.k.a Sat Gurus. If you cannot find one > in>>>>>> person, you should read books

by one. You can try books in > plain>>>>>> language from the Maths of Bagavan

Ramana Maharishi, > Ramakrishna>>>>>>

Paramahamsa, Mahavatar Babaji, Divine Life Society (Swami>>>>>> Sivananda),

Sringeri or Kanchi math, etc. There are many living>>>>>> SatGurus in India

(and probably elsewhere in the world aswell),>>> and>>>>>> if your desire for

SatGuru is deep enough, you will>>> automatically>>>>>> find a Guru either in

person or through His' teachings.>>>>>> >>>>>> Jyotish (astrology) is an

apara-vidya like ayurveda (medicine)>>> or>>>>>> Vyakarana (grammer). Jyotish

is mundane know! ledge - not the>>>>>> transendental knowledge of Self and may

not even be needed for>>>>>> anyone that surrenders oneself totally to God.

However, Jyotish>>>>> does >>>>>> have its own application in life as any other

apara-vidya.>>>>>> >>>>>> For one indulging in agamic (ritualistic) worship and

> performing>>>>>> vedic karmas, knowledge of Jyotish is needed to perform

the>>> various>>>>>> pujas/rituals at the appropriate time.>>>>>> >>>>>>

regards,>>>>>> -Siva.>>>>>> >>>>>> vedic astrology,

"shar1904">>> <shar1904>>>>>>> wrote:>>>>>>> Dear Narasimha Rao ji/ Pt.

Sanjay Rath ji,&g! t;>>>>>> >>>>>>> I read the article on Chara karaka(Sanjay

Rath) on this site>>> and>>>>>> have >>>>>>> a few questions related to it.

Could you please help?>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> 1. Is the exercise of Free will the main cause of karma and>>>

human>>>>>>> suffering ?>>>>>>> 2. Can one attain moksha faster by surrendering

one's free > will>>>>>> and >>>>>>> submitting to divine will?>>>>>>> 3. How do

you put (2) into actual practice? We have to make>>>>>> decisions >>>>>>>

everyday. Is it really possible to give up free will?>>>>>>> 4. If (2) and (3)

are indeed possible, what is the relevance > of>>>>>>> jyotish as a science in

this context?>>>>! ;>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for your time.>>>>>>> Sharada.>>>>>

>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>

>>>>> >>>>> Archives: vedic astrology>>>>> >>>>>

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