2- & Venkat...2/6.... Free will, karma and moksha

[Guest guest]

Dear Mark,

 

Very true. In this crazy world that we live in, rest and

rejuvenation is so hard to find. We are all driven towards more and

more "action" which is outwards facing, and find little time or

inclination for withdrawing inwards and meditating/reflecting. This

is considered "wasting time", especially wasting time that could be

put to use to earn more and more money! At best, it's seen as a

stopgap between actions, whose only benefit is that it facilitates

future action. To use a modern metopher, we treat ourselves like

cell phones, always on, always humming with activity, pausing only

to recharge our batteries, only so that we can go out and "hum" some

more! Maybe we are missing the point that rest and rejuvenation are

required, not only for recouping from our previous actions and

preparing for the next ones, but also because it is the best way to

truly "know thyself", which is the single most important purpose of

our lives.

 

Maybe that is why we percieve Saturn as "malefic". He is teaching us

a lesson that we desperately need to achieve the higher purposes,

but we don't want to learn! The delays, things not turning out as

you expect, the frustrations - they all have a meaning, and they are

not "punishments" but rather, "opportunities to learn and grow". You

are right - I will medidate upon the positive significations of

Saturn for His guidence. Thank you for your reminder, and the

examples. I needed that. As the outermost Graha in the Vedic scheme,

he is truly farthermost from the petty problems we often create for

ourselves, and is helping us to understand that.

 

Thanks,

Venkat

 

vedic astrology, Mark Kincaid

<m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> Dear Venkat:

>

>

>

> I find that all possibilities are possible through each planet.

>

> The key is deciphering and learning how to get more in-tune with

that

> Planet.

>

> Saturn is hard only because we don't know how to get in-tune with

him.

>

> We live in a vata deranged world where rest and rejuvenation and

saturn's

> natural shiva silence is not followed.

>

> But, each step that you take towards Saturn. In humility and

surrender,

> Saturn is appeased and pleased.

>

> Study the positive significations of Saturn and then aspire to be

more

> in-tune with those...

>

> Rest,

> rejuvenation,

> study the cyles of Nature,

> like the Moon cycle, for example...

> As I've watched that for years now, and then learned how to follow

the

> flowings of that cycle, I could sense that Saturn was happier.

>

> Saturn means the integrative part of us, between silence and

activity...

> so meditation,

> yoga,

> pranayama,

> Ayurved!

> many things promote stronger Saturn....

>

> The way you'll be able to tell that your Saturn's getting more

balanced...

> is the negative, malefic signs of it...will start diminishing...

>

> Good luck....

>

> I have Saturn sliding through my 9th house, right now...and

normally it

> would have been more malefic, but since I've been desiring that my

Saturn

> too becomes more benefic,....

>

> even this transit is bringing me some great experiences...of the

9th house

> variety...

>

>

> Take care

>

>

>

> Mark Kincaid

>

>

>

>

> PS....I don't know if you've heard, but I also write a Jyotish

newsletter.

> It includes a daily, Transits newsletter as well as other aspects

of Jyotish

> as well. If you, or anyone else in this group is interested, in

> subscribing, feel free to contact me personally at: m.kincaid@m...

And

> the newsletter is free.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > "venkatarama_sastry" <venkatarama_sastry>

> > Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:58:12 -0000

> > vedic astrology

> > 2-[vedic astrology] & Mukund....2/5.... Re: Free will,

karma and

> > moksha

> >

> > Dear Prashant,

> >

> > Ah, I wish I was blessed with Jupiter and Saturn conjuction to

> > obtain the Brahma Yoga! My Saturn is in Jupiter's Rasi (Pisces),

in

> > the 9th house of Dharma, so maybe I will have some slight

glimpse of

> > this knowledge sometime in this lifetime! I hope so, I really

hope

> > so.

> >

> > That was a great link, thanks for sending it out.

> >

> > Venkat

> >

> > vedic astrology, prashant narang

> > <prashantnarang> wrote:

> >> dear mark,

> >> that was really wonderful !!

> >> those 3kind of karmas r drida(fixed), adridha(not fixed),

> > dridadrdha( semi fixed).

> >> jupiter & saturn conjunction makes brahma yoga which gives

> > knowledge of life /creation.

> >>

> >> & mukund , here is a link for u, this might b helpful

> >> http://spiritualseven.org/art_karma.htm

> >>

> >> regards

> >> prashant

> >>

> >> Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:

> >> Dear Mukund & All:

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Wow.... you're way jumping to the wrong conclusions here...

> >>

> >> Let me first say that you're mixing up destiny with something

that

> > can't be

> >> changed. Even Vedic science...which comes from Lord Krishna..

> >>

> >> says...that there are basically 3 areas of karmas that can be

> > changed....

> >>

> >> Some that are more easy, others that are more difficult and

still

> > others

> >> that are the most difficult.

> >>

> >> However,.... you make one good point that.... destiny doesn't

mean

> > lack of

> >> free will.

> >>

> >> Destiny means karma that we've produced from the past.

> >>

> >> As such we're meant to understand and grow through and with our

> > past karmas

> >> to evolve in the present and the future.

> >>

> >> If there was no choice..there would be no joy, we would be like

> > robots...

> >>

> >> If you're going to define destiny as what happens...then nothing

> > can be

> >> changed... but... the whole universe is not the destiny of the

> > lord...

> >> he's not a slave to something...

> >>

> >> It came out beautifully.... profoundly wrapped in eternal

freedom.

> >>

> >> Man, who was born in God's image, means...born with the ability

to

> > reflect

> >> his own divine, Cosmic, enlightened...consciousness....

> >>

> >> and at every step along that path.... we have the potential to

> > express more

> >> and more freedom....of life...

> >>

> >> I think you're mixing up the will of God...destiny and man's

will

> > and

> >> choices...

> >>

> >> What we are living...is both God's will and our will.

> >>

> >> It is 'we' who have chosen these actions and as a result

produced

> > these

> >> consequences....

> >>

> >> God is within,...the ultimate source.... but... it's dangerous

to

> > assume

> >> that God is the author...and we are not...

> >>

> >> God may be the ultimate source... but we are participating in

that

> > adventure

> >> and karma is all about actions haveing been done in the past...

> >>

> >> go out into the universe....striking every bit of the

> > creation...and then

> >> coming back...

> >>

> >> We do have and it's very important that we view our choices as

our

> > choices.

> >>

> >> We need to take responsibility..... and in responsibility we

grasp

> > the power

> >> to make any change ...that is possible.

> >>

> >> In the west we say, after Lord Christ... if your faith was as

> > great as you

> >> bunyan seed.... you could move mountains...

> >>

> >> Well, in the east they have similar expressions....

> >>

> >> That man's Consciounsess is indeed unbounded...

> >> and the more that we reflect that unbounded potential of

> > consciounsess...

> >> we will gain the ability...

> >> to do anything, to accomplish everything...

> >>

> >> We should think how great is a man's nature and potential...and

> > not limit

> >> ourselves or our thinkings...as we're understanding...

> >> the power of destiny or fate...

> >>

> >> And finally....Saturn rules our fate or destiny....

> >> and yet...

> >> Jupiter rules faith and freedom....

> >>

> >>

> >> Both planets together...make life...

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> take care

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Mark Kincaid

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>> "monmuk111" <monmuk111>

> >>> Thu, 05 Feb 2004 17:59:01 -0000

> >>> vedic astrology

> >>> [vedic astrology] Re: Free will, karma and moksha

> >>>

> >>> Hello Siva:

> >>>

> >>> I've asked these same questions over and over and over again

and

> >>> yours is the best reply I've ever received.

> >>>

> >>> No Jyotisha can make a prediction, if they can, itdefeats the

> > purpose

> >>> of destiny created by Lord Brahma (the creator) when we're

born.

> >>>

> >>> Even if some Jyotisha makes a prediction, theprediction itself

> > cannot

> >>> CHANGE the destiny nor the actual manifestation destiny of that

> >>> individual as only Lord Vishnu/Krishna (the operator) can

decide

> > how

> >>> the destiny will manifest itself through ourmundane lives.

> >>>

> >>> And, even if some Jyotisha figured out a way to change destiny

or

> >>> change the means by with destiny manifest itself, NO Jyotisha

can

> >>> change the will of Lord Mahesh/Siva (the destroyer) as ALL

living

> >>> beings have to die/destruct and the cycle of life and birth

> > continues.

> >>>

> >>> To conclude, Jyotish CANNOT change the destiny of a person AND

> >>> Jyotish CANNOT change the way destiny manifest itself.

> >>>

> >>> It is useless to run after Jyotishs and "Godmen/Godwomen" as it

> >>> accomplishes NOTHING except temorary hopes of "raj yog"

and "this

> >>> yog" and "that yog" that thes Jyothish/Godmen/women predict

until

> >>> the individual realizes that destiny is unpredictable and EVEN

> > MORE,

> >>> if destiny could be predicted, it cannot be changed.

> >>>

> >>> So people, forget all this mumbo-jumbo about navamsha chart,

hora

> >>> chart, trishamsa chart, this chart, that chart and all the

> > million

> >>> other charts that these Jyotish invent as these charts CHANGE

> > NOTHING.

> >>>

> >>> Lord Krishna told us to perform righteous karma in fulfilling

our

> >>> dharma towards our spouses, kids, parents, society, etc. and

> > that is

> >>> all that we need to do--perform righteous Karma to fulfill our

> > dharma

> >>> AND forget all these Jyotishis and God-people.

> >>>

> >>> Mukund

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> vedic astrology, "schinnas"

> > <schinnas>

> >>> wrote:

> >>>> Dear Sharada-ji,

> >>>>

> >>>> Though this question is not for me, let me venture in with my

> >>>> opinions.

> >>>>

> >>>> Questions (1), (2) and (3) can (and should) be properly

> > explained

> >>>> only by self-realized a.k.a Sat Gurus. If you cannot find one

in

> >>>> person, you should read books by one. You can try books in

plain

> >>>> language from the Maths of Bagavan Ramana Maharishi,

Ramakrishna

> >>>> Paramahamsa, Mahavatar Babaji, Divine Life Society (Swami

> >>>> Sivananda), Sringeri or Kanchi math, etc. There are many

living

> >>>> SatGurus in India (and probably elsewhere in the world

aswell),

> > and

> >>>> if your desire for SatGuru is deep enough, you will

> > automatically

> >>>> find a Guru either in person or through His' teachings.

> >>>>

> >>>> Jyotish (astrology) is an apara-vidya like ayurveda (medicine)

> > or

> >>>> Vyakarana (grammer). Jyotish is mundane knowledge - not the

> >>>> transendental knowledge of Self and may not even be needed for

> >>>> anyone that surrenders oneself totally to God. However,

Jyotish

> >>> does

> >>>> have its own application in life as any other apara-vidya.

> >>>>

> >>>> For one indulging in agamic (ritualistic) worship and

performing

> >>>> vedic karmas, knowledge of Jyotish is needed to perform the

> > various

> >>>> pujas/rituals at the appropriate time.

> >>>>

> >>>> regards,

> >>>> -Siva.

> >>>>

> >>>> vedic astrology, "shar1904"

> > <shar1904>

> >>>> wrote:

> >>>>> Dear Narasimha Rao ji/ Pt. Sanjay Rath ji,

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I read the article on Chara karaka(Sanjay Rath) on this site

> > and

> >>>> have

> >>>>> a few questions related to it. Could you please help?

> >>>>>

> >>>>> 1. Is the exercise of Free will the main cause of karma and

> > human

> >>>>> suffering ?

> >>>>> 2. Can one attain moksha faster by surrendering one's free

will

> >>>> and

> >>>>> submitting to divine will?

> >>>>> 3. How do you put (2) into actual practice? We have to make

> >>>> decisions

> >>>>> everyday. Is it really possible to give up free will?

> >>>>> 4. If (2) and (3) are indeed possible, what is the relevance

of

> >>>>> jyotish as a science in this context?

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Thank you for your time.

> >>>>> Sharada.

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Group info: vedic-

> > astrology/info.html

> >>>

> >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> >

> >>>

> >>> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Links

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Group info: vedic-

astrology/info.html

> >>

> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> >

> >>

> >> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Sponsor

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Links

> >>

> >>

> >> vedic astrology/

> >>

> >>

> >> vedic astrology

> >>

> >> Terms of

> > Service.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Group info: vedic-

astrology/info.html

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

 

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> >

> > Links

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I find this /and other/ statements too vague and broad-

"I find that all possibilities are possible through each planet.you said.. Come on,

which world are you talking about?- I do appreciate 'humanistic' astrology, but

its not about vagueness and extreme relativisation of everything, which ends up

with not knowing - anything. Plese don't feel insulted, but statements like this

just bring 'bad press' to 'humanistic' astrology' and are of no practical

relevance.

I appreciate a poet in you, but not in 'hard fact' area, LOL!Best regards,

AnnaMark Kincaid <m.kincaid (AT) mchsi (DOT) com> wrote:

Dear Venkat:I find that all possibilities are possible through each planet.The

key is deciphering and learning how to get more in-tune with thatPlanet.Saturn

is hard only because we don't know how to get in-tune with him.We live in a

vata deranged world where rest and rejuvenation and saturn'snatural shiva

silence is not followed.But, each step that you take towards Saturn. In

humility and surrender,Saturn is appeased and pleased.Study the positive

significations of Saturn and then aspire to be morein-tune with

those...Rest,rejuvenation,study the cyles of Nature,like the Moon cycle, for

example...As I've watched that for years now, and then learned how to follow

theflowings of that cycle, I could sense that Saturn was happier.Saturn means

the integrative part of us,

between silence and activity...so meditation,yoga,pranayama, Ayurved!many things

promote stronger Saturn....The way you'll be able to tell that your Saturn's

getting more balanced...is the negative, malefic signs of it...will start

diminishing...Good luck....I have Saturn sliding through my 9th house, right

now...and normally itwould have been more malefic, but since I've been desiring

that my Saturntoo becomes more benefic,....even this transit is bringing me some

great experiences...of the 9th housevariety...Take careMark KincaidPS....I don't

know if you've heard, but I also write a Jyotish newsletter.It includes a daily,

Transits newsletter as well as other aspects of Jyotishas well. If you, or

anyone else in this group is interested, insubscribing, feel free to contact me

personally at: m.kincaid (AT) mchsi (DOT) com Andthe newsletter is

free.> "venkatarama_sastry" <venkatarama_sastry >> Fri, 06

Feb 2004 14:58:12 -0000> vedic astrology> Subject:

2-[vedic astrology] & Mukund....2/5.... Re: Free will, karma and> moksha> >

Dear Prashant, > > Ah, I wish I was blessed with Jupiter and Saturn conjuction

to> obtain the Brahma Yoga! My Saturn is in Jupiter's Rasi (Pisces), in> the

9th house of Dharma, so maybe I will have some slight glimpse of> this

knowledge sometime in this lifetime! I hope so, I really hope> so. > > That was

a great link, thanks for sending it out.> > Venkat> > --- In

vedic astrology, prashant narang> <prashantnarang>

wrote:>> dear mark,>> that was really wonderful !!>> those 3kind of karmas r

drida(fixed), adridha(not

fixed),> dridadrdha( semi fixed).>> jupiter & saturn conjunction makes brahma

yoga which gives> knowledge of life /creation.>> >> & mukund , here is a link

for u, this might b helpful>> http://spiritualseven.org/art_karma.htm>> >>

regards>> prashant>> >> Mark Kincaid <m.kincaid@m...> wrote:>> Dear Mukund &

All:>> >> >> >> >> >> Wow.... you're way jumping to the wrong conclusions

here...>> >> Let me first say that you're mixing up destiny with something

that> can't be>> changed. Even Vedic science...which comes from Lord

Krishna..>> >> says...that there are basically 3 areas of karmas that can be>

changed....>> >> Some that are more easy, others that are

more difficult and still> others>> that are the most difficult.>> >>

However,.... you make one good point that.... destiny doesn't mean> lack of>>

free will.>> >> Destiny means karma that we've produced from the past.>> >> As

such we're meant to understand and grow through and with our> past karmas>> to

evolve in the present and the future.>> >> If there was no choice..there would

be no joy, we would be like> robots...>> >> If you're going to define destiny

as what happens...then nothing> can be>> changed... but... the whole universe

is not the destiny of the> lord...>> he's not a slave to something...>> >> It

came out beautifully.... profoundly wrapped in eternal freedom.>> >> Man, who

was born in God's image, means...born with the ability to>

reflect>> his own divine, Cosmic, enlightened...consciousness....>> >> and at

every step along that path.... we have the potential to> express more>> and

more freedom....of life...>> >> I think you're mixing up the will of

God...destiny and man's will> and>> choices...>> >> What we are living...is

both God's will and our will.>> >> It is 'we' who have chosen these actions and

as a result produced> these>> consequences....>> >> God is within,...the

ultimate source.... but... it's dangerous to> assume>> that God is the

author...and we are not...>> >> God may be the ultimate source... but we are

participating in that> adventure>> and karma is all about actions haveing been

done in the past...>> >> go out into the universe....striking every bit of

the> creation...and then>> coming back...>> >> We do have and it's very

important that we view our choices as our> choices.>> >> We need to take

responsibility..... and in responsibility we grasp> the power>> to make any

change ...that is possible.>> >> In the west we say, after Lord Christ... if

your faith was as> great as you>> bunyan seed.... you could move mountains...>>

>> Well, in the east they have similar expressions....>> >> That man's

Consciounsess is indeed unbounded...>> and the more that we reflect that

unbounded potential of> consciounsess...>> we will gain the ability...>> to do

anything, to accomplish everything...>> >> We should think how great is a man's

nature and potential...and> not limit>> ourselves or our thinkings...as we're

understanding...>> the power of destiny or fate...>> >> And finally....Saturn

rules our fate or destiny....>> and yet...>> Jupiter rules faith and

freedom....>> >> >> Both planets together...make life...>> >> >> >> take care>>

>> >> >> >> Mark Kincaid>> >> >> >> >> >>> "monmuk111" <monmuk111>>>>

Thu, 05 Feb 2004 17:59:01 -0000>>> vedic astrology>>>

[vedic astrology] Re: Free will, karma and moksha>>> >>> Hello

Siva:>>> >>> I've asked these same questions over and over and over again

and>>> yours is the best reply I've ever received.>>> >>> No Jyotisha can make

a

prediction, if they can, itdefeats the> purpose>>> of destiny created by Lord

Brahma (the creator) when we're born.>>> >>> Even if some Jyotisha makes a

prediction, theprediction itself> cannot>>> CHANGE the destiny nor the actual

manifestation destiny of that>>> individual as only Lord Vishnu/Krishna (the

operator) can decide> how>>> the destiny will manifest itself through

ourmundane lives.>>> >>> And, even if some Jyotisha figured out a way to change

destiny or>>> change the means by with destiny manifest itself, NO Jyotisha

can>>> change the will of Lord Mahesh/Siva (the destroyer) as ALL living>>>

beings have to die/destruct and the cycle of life and birth> continues.>>> >>>

To conclude, Jyotish CANNOT change the destiny of a person AND>>> Jyotish

CANNOT change the

way destiny manifest itself.>>> >>> It is useless to run after Jyotishs and

"Godmen/Godwomen" as it>>> accomplishes NOTHING except temorary hopes of "raj

yog" and "this>>> yog" and "that yog" that thes Jyothish/Godmen/women predict

until>>> the individual realizes that destiny is unpredictable and EVEN>

MORE,>>> if destiny could be predicted, it cannot be changed.>>> >>> So people,

forget all this mumbo-jumbo about navamsha chart, hora>>> chart, trishamsa

chart, this chart, that chart and all the> million>>> other charts that these

Jyotish invent as these charts CHANGE> NOTHING.>>> >>> Lord Krishna told us to

perform righteous karma in fulfilling our>>> dharma towards our spouses, kids,

parents, society, etc. and> that is>>> all that we need to do--perform

righteous Karma to

fulfill our> dharma>>> AND forget all these Jyotishis and God-people.>>> >>>

Mukund>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> vedic astrology, "schinnas">

<schinnas>>>> wrote:>>>> Dear Sharada-ji,>>>> >>>> Though this question is

not for me, let me venture in with my>>>> opinions.>>>> >>>> Questions (1), (2)

and (3) can (and should) be properly> explained>>>> only by self-realized a.k.a

Sat Gurus. If you cannot find one in>>>> person, you should read books by one.

You can try books in plain>>>> language from the Maths of Bagavan Ramana

Maharishi, Ramakrishna>>>> Paramahamsa, Mahavatar Babaji, Divine Life Society

(Swami>>>> Sivananda), Sringeri or Kanchi math, etc.

There are many living>>>> SatGurus in India (and probably elsewhere in the world

aswell),> and>>>> if your desire for SatGuru is deep enough, you will>

automatically>>>> find a Guru either in person or through His' teachings.>>>>

>>>> Jyotish (astrology) is an apara-vidya like ayurveda (medicine)> or>>>>

Vyakarana (grammer). Jyotish is mundane knowledge - not the>>>> transendental

knowledge of Self and may not even be needed for>>>> anyone that surrenders

oneself totally to God. However, Jyotish>>> does >>>> have its own application

in life as any other apara-vidya.>>>> >>>> For one indulging in agamic

(ritualistic) worship and performing>>>> vedic karmas, knowledge of Jyotish is

needed to perform the> various>>>> pujas/rituals at the

appropriate time.>>>> >>>> regards,>>>> -Siva.>>>> >>>> --- In

vedic astrology, "shar1904"> <shar1904>>>>> wrote:>>>>>

Dear Narasimha Rao ji/ Pt. Sanjay Rath ji,>>>>> >>>>> I read the article on

Chara karaka(Sanjay Rath) on this site> and>>>> have >>>>> a few questions

related to it. Could you please help?>>>>> >>>>> 1. Is the exercise of Free

will the main cause of karma and> human>>>>> suffering ?>>>>> 2. Can one attain

moksha faster by surrendering one's free will>>>> and >>>>> submitting to divine

will?>>>>> 3. How do you put (2) into actual practice? We have to make>>>>

decisions

>>>>> everyday. Is it really possible to give up free will?>>>>> 4. If (2) and

(3) are indeed possible, what is the relevance of>>>>> jyotish as a science in

this context?>>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your time.>>>>> Sharada.>>> >>> >>> >>>

>>> >>> Archives: vedic astrology>>> >>> Group

info: vedic-> astrology/info.html>>> >>> To

UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> >>> >>>

>>> >>> || Om Tat Sat ||

Sarvam

Sri Krishnaarpanamastu ||>>> Links>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>

>> Archives: vedic astrology>> >> Group info:

vedic astrology/info.html>> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE:

Blank mail to vedic astrology-> >> >> ....... May

Jupiter's light shine on us .......>> >> || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

Krishnaarpanamastu ||>> >> >> Sponsor>> >> >>

>> Links>> >> To visit

your group on the web, go to:>> vedic astrology/>>

>> >>

vedic astrology>> >> Your use of is

subject to the Terms of> Service. >> >> >> >> >>

>> >> Finance: Get your

refund fast by filing online> > > > Archives:

vedic astrology> > Group info:

vedic astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-> > ....... May

Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

Krishnaarpanamastu ||> Links> > > > > Archives:

vedic astrologyGroup info:

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mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light

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