2- & Mukund....2/5.... Free will, karma and moksha

[Guest guest]

Dear Mukund & All:

 

 

 

 

 

Wow.... you're way jumping to the wrong conclusions here...

 

Let me first say that you're mixing up destiny with something that can't be

changed. Even Vedic science...which comes from Lord Krishna..

 

says...that there are basically 3 areas of karmas that can be changed....

 

Some that are more easy, others that are more difficult and still others

that are the most difficult.

 

However,.... you make one good point that.... destiny doesn't mean lack of

free will.

 

Destiny means karma that we've produced from the past.

 

As such we're meant to understand and grow through and with our past karmas

to evolve in the present and the future.

 

If there was no choice..there would be no joy, we would be like robots...

 

If you're going to define destiny as what happens...then nothing can be

changed... but... the whole universe is not the destiny of the lord...

he's not a slave to something...

 

It came out beautifully.... profoundly wrapped in eternal freedom.

 

Man, who was born in God's image, means...born with the ability to reflect

his own divine, Cosmic, enlightened...consciousness....

 

and at every step along that path.... we have the potential to express more

and more freedom....of life...

 

I think you're mixing up the will of God...destiny and man's will and

choices...

 

What we are living...is both God's will and our will.

 

It is 'we' who have chosen these actions and as a result produced these

consequences....

 

God is within,...the ultimate source.... but... it's dangerous to assume

that God is the author...and we are not...

 

God may be the ultimate source... but we are participating in that adventure

and karma is all about actions haveing been done in the past...

 

go out into the universe....striking every bit of the creation...and then

coming back...

 

We do have and it's very important that we view our choices as our choices.

 

We need to take responsibility..... and in responsibility we grasp the power

to make any change ...that is possible.

 

In the west we say, after Lord Christ... if your faith was as great as you

bunyan seed.... you could move mountains...

 

Well, in the east they have similar expressions....

 

That man's Consciounsess is indeed unbounded...

and the more that we reflect that unbounded potential of consciounsess...

we will gain the ability...

to do anything, to accomplish everything...

 

We should think how great is a man's nature and potential...and not limit

ourselves or our thinkings...as we're understanding...

the power of destiny or fate...

 

And finally....Saturn rules our fate or destiny....

and yet...

Jupiter rules faith and freedom....

 

 

Both planets together...make life...

 

 

 

take care

 

 

 

 

Mark Kincaid

 

 

 

 

 

> "monmuk111" <monmuk111

> Thu, 05 Feb 2004 17:59:01 -0000

> vedic astrology

> [vedic astrology] Re: Free will, karma and moksha

>

> Hello Siva:

>

> I've asked these same questions over and over and over again and

> yours is the best reply I've ever received.

>

> No Jyotisha can make a prediction, if they can, itdefeats the purpose

> of destiny created by Lord Brahma (the creator) when we're born.

>

> Even if some Jyotisha makes a prediction, theprediction itself cannot

> CHANGE the destiny nor the actual manifestation destiny of that

> individual as only Lord Vishnu/Krishna (the operator) can decide how

> the destiny will manifest itself through ourmundane lives.

>

> And, even if some Jyotisha figured out a way to change destiny or

> change the means by with destiny manifest itself, NO Jyotisha can

> change the will of Lord Mahesh/Siva (the destroyer) as ALL living

> beings have to die/destruct and the cycle of life and birth continues.

>

> To conclude, Jyotish CANNOT change the destiny of a person AND

> Jyotish CANNOT change the way destiny manifest itself.

>

> It is useless to run after Jyotishs and "Godmen/Godwomen" as it

> accomplishes NOTHING except temorary hopes of "raj yog" and "this

> yog" and "that yog" that thes Jyothish/Godmen/women predict until

> the individual realizes that destiny is unpredictable and EVEN MORE,

> if destiny could be predicted, it cannot be changed.

>

> So people, forget all this mumbo-jumbo about navamsha chart, hora

> chart, trishamsa chart, this chart, that chart and all the million

> other charts that these Jyotish invent as these charts CHANGE NOTHING.

>

> Lord Krishna told us to perform righteous karma in fulfilling our

> dharma towards our spouses, kids, parents, society, etc. and that is

> all that we need to do--perform righteous Karma to fulfill our dharma

> AND forget all these Jyotishis and God-people.

>

> Mukund

>

>

>

>

> vedic astrology, "schinnas" <schinnas>

> wrote:

>> Dear Sharada-ji,

>>

>> Though this question is not for me, let me venture in with my

>> opinions.

>>

>> Questions (1), (2) and (3) can (and should) be properly explained

>> only by self-realized a.k.a Sat Gurus. If you cannot find one in

>> person, you should read books by one. You can try books in plain

>> language from the Maths of Bagavan Ramana Maharishi, Ramakrishna

>> Paramahamsa, Mahavatar Babaji, Divine Life Society (Swami

>> Sivananda), Sringeri or Kanchi math, etc. There are many living

>> SatGurus in India (and probably elsewhere in the world aswell), and

>> if your desire for SatGuru is deep enough, you will automatically

>> find a Guru either in person or through His' teachings.

>>

>> Jyotish (astrology) is an apara-vidya like ayurveda (medicine) or

>> Vyakarana (grammer). Jyotish is mundane knowledge - not the

>> transendental knowledge of Self and may not even be needed for

>> anyone that surrenders oneself totally to God. However, Jyotish

> does

>> have its own application in life as any other apara-vidya.

>>

>> For one indulging in agamic (ritualistic) worship and performing

>> vedic karmas, knowledge of Jyotish is needed to perform the various

>> pujas/rituals at the appropriate time.

>>

>> regards,

>> -Siva.

>>

>> vedic astrology, "shar1904" <shar1904>

>> wrote:

>>> Dear Narasimha Rao ji/ Pt. Sanjay Rath ji,

>>>

>>> I read the article on Chara karaka(Sanjay Rath) on this site and

>> have

>>> a few questions related to it. Could you please help?

>>>

>>> 1. Is the exercise of Free will the main cause of karma and human

>>> suffering ?

>>> 2. Can one attain moksha faster by surrendering one's free will

>> and

>>> submitting to divine will?

>>> 3. How do you put (2) into actual practice? We have to make

>> decisions

>>> everyday. Is it really possible to give up free will?

>>> 4. If (2) and (3) are indeed possible, what is the relevance of

>>> jyotish as a science in this context?

>>>

>>> Thank you for your time.

>>> Sharada.

>

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> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

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