Astrology is it Vedic ???????????? to Rajiv

[Guest guest]

Hello Rajiv:

 

Rajeev, I've said this once and I'll say it again. What you're

challenging is our faith. We on this dicussion group and we

collectively as Hindus feel that astrology is Vedic and astrology is

an integral part of our culture and our heritage.

 

Now, I'm not calling atrology a science or a perfect science as I

myself haven't seen an astrologer make an accurate prediction.

 

However, what I'm saying is that for Hindus, astrology is sacred. Ya,

some unsculprous Brahmin families have exploited this sacredness,

yet, it still remains sacred for the Hindus.

 

If you challenge the Vedicness of astrology, then you should

challenge the authenticity of the Jewish Torahs and the authenticity

of the Chritian Bible as well.

 

Did Moses really to up the mountain and have a discourse with God? I

can't prove this, no Jew can prove this, but the entire Jewish faith

believes it.

 

Did Jesus walk on water, did Jesus cure the sick? I can't prove this,

no Christian can prove this, but the entire Christian faith believes

it.

 

Rajeev, you're challenging OUR FAITH. FAITH is abstract, FAITH is a

way of life. My FAITH doesn't need any postulate or theorems to prove

or dis-prove it. All that matters is that I'm a BELIEVER.

 

Therefore Rajeev, drop your infantile arguments and shed your hidden

agenda (whatever it may be) and go to a discussion group where you

have an opportunity to prove or dis-prove something TANGIBLE.

 

We're believers and we'll continue to be believers. You're wasting

your words here.

 

I'm hoping other members of the board won't engage in any more

arguments with Rajeev as it is just a MOOT argument.

 

Mukund

 

 

vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar <satpath1>

wrote:

> Namaste Sanjay Rath Ji,

>

> It's simply a trick they play and it appears devine to viewers.

> If his faith is so strong then ask him to stand in the center of

fire pit for about 1 minute .

> You have to take him on your shoulders.

> Why donot you master the art of moving on fire , if it is due to

Gods. Had it been due to God's grace your servant would have become

your master.

>

> PC Sarkar the great magician has once made the whole Rajdhani

Express disappear before a crowd of people and Basu Chaterjee the

chief minister of Bengal was there to witness it. But PC Sarkar

declares that these are arts and so does many stage show artists.

Magicians can show you coins coming out from your pant. If they are

so powerful then after every show why do they beg for money before

the crowd.

>

> These are different types of tricks and nothing else.

>

> Regards

>

> Rajeev

>

> Sanjay Rath <srath@s...> wrote:

>

> Om Gurave Namah

> Dear Rajeev

> Challenge must be more meaningful. One of my servants walks the

fire every year as a test of his FAITH of Sri Lingaraja &

Bhuvaneshwari devi, the deitis of Bhuvaneswar. Are you willing to

walk this fire. It is a small pit - 4 feet wide, 4 feet deep and

about 30 feet long. Wood charcoal shall be burning at the bottom of

the pit and the fire shall be about 12-15 feet high. The condition is

simple - not a single hair must be burnt. Are you accepting this

challenge. If you lose, you must give up all this tirade against

hinduism and must live in Bhubaneswar (welcome to the land of the

faithful ones) and practise your sadhana. This event takes place

every year and is attended by many people. Can you pass this test of

SHIVA? Do you have the faith and internal strength? if not know that

your words are borne out of passion and are like poison for your own

atma.

> Best Regards,

> Sanjay Rath

> http://srath.com

> -

> onlyhari

> vedic astrology

> Thursday, September 11, 2003 5:51 AM

> [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology is it Vedic ???????????? (

To all concerned)

>

>

> ||Om Brihaspataye Namah||

>

> Namaste Rajeev,

> > If Astrologers say that they have control over the celestial

> bodies than if two persons one believer of astrology(like you) and

> other nonbeliever like me walk bare footed on the heated sands of

> Rajasthan in the month of May or June during day time(1.00 PM to

> 3.00PM) when the summer is at its peak. At that time if your feet

> are not burnt( because sun is in your(astrologers control )and only

> my feet are burnt then I will accept whatever you say, otherwise

> accept what I am saying.

> >

>

> ASTROLOGERS DO NOT CLAIM THAT THEY HAVE CONTROL OVER THE CELESTIAL

> BODIES. THAT IS THE CENTRAL PRINCIPLE PRACTICED ON THIS FORUM. AS

> TANVIR SAID, I WILL JOIN YOU IN CALLING ANY ASTROLOGER, WHO MAKES

> SUCH A CLAIM, AS FRAUD.

>

> SIR, YOU ARE EXTRAPOLATING AGAIN. YOU HAVE NOT MADE A SINGLE

ATTEMPT

> TO GO THROUGH THE ARCHIVES AND SEE THE WORK DONE BY THE GURUS IN

> SOLVING THE COMMON MAN'S PROBLEMS. PLEASE DO NOT MAKE PROVOCATIVE

> STATEMENTS LIKE THIS. WE ARE WORKING HARD TO RESTORE THE GLORY OF

> INDIA'S ANCIENT AND RICH SPIRITUAL HERITAGE SO THAT THE FUTURE

> GENERATIONS WILL BE BENEFITED. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE WHAT WE ARE

> ATTEMPTING TO DO, PLEASE TAKE YOUR TRUTHS, EXPERIENCES AND

> INTELLECTUAL BAGGAGE ELSEWHERE. THAT IS MY HUMBLE REQUEST TO YOU.

>

> Regards

> Hari

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

 

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

>

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

> Sponsor

>

>

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

 

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> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

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> Terms of

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>

[Guest guest]

dear mukund,

good mr rajeev should know as sun will be bad for a

unhealthy person to have sun bath in july but same sun

could be good for a young man to have fun under it in

july.

same way if planet are in harmony with your first

house you live good life or you suufer if not placed

right in your chart.

evry thing when born has the effect of that time

whether mr rajeev like it or not.

also planet dont compel we have power will to

lift ourself beyond the call of time.

those are rishi who wrote about astrology

swami dayanad was a social reformer and since

pundit were using astrology for monetery benefit and

self greed he critisise it strongly .

and favour ony calculative part of astronomy.

i believe astrolgy is to help mankind to do good karma

and pointing us we giving help to other

infact is helping ouself too.

regards

rajinder

 

--- monmuk111 <monmuk111 wrote:

> Hello Rajiv:

>

> Rajeev, I've said this once and I'll say it again.

> What you're

> challenging is our faith. We on this dicussion group

d> and we

> collectively as Hindus feel that astrology is Vedic

> and astrology is

> an integral part of our culture and our heritage.

>

> Now, I'm not calling atrology a science or a perfect

> science as I

> myself haven't seen an astrologer make an accurate

> prediction.

>

> However, what I'm saying is that for Hindus,

> astrology is sacred. Ya,

> some unsculprous Brahmin families have exploited

> this sacredness,

> yet, it still remains sacred for the Hindus.

>

> If you challenge the Vedicness of astrology, then

> you should

> challenge the authenticity of the Jewish Torahs and

> the authenticity

> of the Chritian Bible as well.

>

> Did Moses really to up the mountain and have a

> discourse with God? I

> can't prove this, no Jew can prove this, but the

> entire Jewish faith

> believes it.

>

> Did Jesus walk on water, did Jesus cure the sick? I

> can't prove this,

> no Christian can prove this, but the entire

> Christian faith believes

> it.

>

> Rajeev, you're challenging OUR FAITH. FAITH is

> abstract, FAITH is a

> way of life. My FAITH doesn't need any postulate or

> theorems to prove

> or dis-prove it. All that matters is that I'm a

> BELIEVER.

>

> Therefore Rajeev, drop your infantile arguments and

> shed your hidden

> agenda (whatever it may be) and go to a discussion

> group where you

> have an opportunity to prove or dis-prove something

> TANGIBLE.

>

> We're believers and we'll continue to be believers.

> You're wasting

> your words here.

>

> I'm hoping other members of the board won't engage

> in any more

> arguments with Rajeev as it is just a MOOT argument.

>

> Mukund

>

>

> vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

> <satpath1>

> wrote:

> > Namaste Sanjay Rath Ji,

> >

> > It's simply a trick they play and it appears

> devine to viewers.

> > If his faith is so strong then ask him to stand in

> the center of

> fire pit for about 1 minute .

> > You have to take him on your shoulders.

> > Why donot you master the art of moving on fire ,

> if it is due to

> Gods. Had it been due to God's grace your servant

> would have become

> your master.

> >

> > PC Sarkar the great magician has once made the

> whole Rajdhani

> Express disappear before a crowd of people and Basu

> Chaterjee the

> chief minister of Bengal was there to witness it.

> But PC Sarkar

> declares that these are arts and so does many stage

> show artists.

> Magicians can show you coins coming out from your

> pant. If they are

> so powerful then after every show why do they beg

> for money before

> the crowd.

> >

> > These are different types of tricks and nothing

> else.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Rajeev

> >

> > Sanjay Rath <srath@s...> wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> > Dear Rajeev

> > Challenge must be more meaningful. One of my

> servants walks the

> fire every year as a test of his FAITH of Sri

> Lingaraja &

> Bhuvaneshwari devi, the deitis of Bhuvaneswar. Are

> you willing to

> walk this fire. It is a small pit - 4 feet wide, 4

> feet deep and

> about 30 feet long. Wood charcoal shall be burning

> at the bottom of

> the pit and the fire shall be about 12-15 feet high.

> The condition is

> simple - not a single hair must be burnt. Are you

> accepting this

> challenge. If you lose, you must give up all this

> tirade against

> hinduism and must live in Bhubaneswar (welcome to

> the land of the

> faithful ones) and practise your sadhana. This event

> takes place

> every year and is attended by many people. Can you

> pass this test of

> SHIVA? Do you have the faith and internal strength?

> if not know that

> your words are borne out of passion and are like

> poison for your own

> atma.

> > Best Regards,

> > Sanjay Rath

> > http://srath.com

> > -

> > onlyhari

> > vedic astrology

> > Thursday, September 11, 2003 5:51 AM

> > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology is it

> Vedic ???????????? (

> To all concerned)

> >

> >

> > ||Om Brihaspataye Namah||

> >

> > Namaste Rajeev,

> > > If Astrologers say that they have control over

> the celestial

> > bodies than if two persons one believer of

> astrology(like you) and

> > other nonbeliever like me walk bare footed on the

> heated sands of

> > Rajasthan in the month of May or June during day

> time(1.00 PM to

> > 3.00PM) when the summer is at its peak. At that

> time if your feet

> > are not burnt( because sun is in your(astrologers

> control )and only

> > my feet are burnt then I will accept whatever you

> say, otherwise

> > accept what I am saying.

> > >

> >

> > ASTROLOGERS DO NOT CLAIM THAT THEY HAVE CONTROL

> OVER THE CELESTIAL

> > BODIES. THAT IS THE CENTRAL PRINCIPLE PRACTICED ON

> THIS FORUM. AS

> > TANVIR SAID, I WILL JOIN YOU IN CALLING ANY

> ASTROLOGER, WHO MAKES

> > SUCH A CLAIM, AS FRAUD.

> >

> > SIR, YOU ARE EXTRAPOLATING AGAIN. YOU HAVE NOT

> MADE A SINGLE

> ATTEMPT

> > TO GO THROUGH THE ARCHIVES AND SEE THE WORK DONE

> BY THE GURUS IN

> > SOLVING THE COMMON MAN'S PROBLEMS. PLEASE DO NOT

> MAKE PROVOCATIVE

> > STATEMENTS LIKE THIS. WE ARE WORKING HARD TO

> RESTORE THE GLORY OF

> > INDIA'S ANCIENT AND RICH SPIRITUAL HERITAGE SO

> THAT THE FUTURE

> > GENERATIONS WILL BE BENEFITED. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE

> WHAT WE ARE

> > ATTEMPTING TO DO, PLEASE TAKE YOUR TRUTHS,

> EXPERIENCES AND

> > INTELLECTUAL BAGGAGE ELSEWHERE. THAT IS MY HUMBLE

> REQUEST TO YOU.

> >

> > Regards

> > Hari

> >

> >

> >

> > Archives:

> vedic astrology

> >

> > Group info:

>

vedic astrology/info.html

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Rajeev,

 

It is good to reach a conclusion based on the outcome of

discussions/debates yet what you say may be true to yourself but not

to others with whom you are trying to discuss/debate.

 

To debate on a particular issue is good but without a knowledgeable

mediator it is difficult to reach a conclusion.

 

If you have read about Adiguru Shankaracharya ever he never discussed

with anybody without a wise and knowledgeable mediator (take the case

of Sh. Madan with whom he debated for 17 odd days-who later became

his disciple and Sh. Madan's wife was a mediator in that debate since

she was suppossed to be an Avatar of Goddess Saraswati). Later he

debated with the wife of Sh. Madan for which he had to enter the body

of a dead king to debate on "Kamashastra".

 

Have you ever entered the body of a dog to define its faith?

 

I will strongly say that you have no right to define the faith of a

dog till the time you yourself were not at the dog's position or you

yourself are not a dog. I hope you don't mind since this is a debate

whose outcome will do some good.

 

How do you say what Swami Dayanand Saraswati wrote was 100% correct

on Vedas?

 

How do you say that the "tests of truth" are correct?

 

How do we take that whatever is written/translated on the link you

provide is 100% correct although I have not gone through it.

 

Lord Krishna unfolded Bhagwat Gita because he was an incarnation thus

realized and he had a realized shishya who had some doubts? It was

lord whose maya was unfolding at Kurukshetra.

 

Lord Rama was a realized one and he was the only and real "maryada

purushottam" at that point of time when people were degrading.

 

Lord Buddha gave sermons when he himself realized truth and people

listened to it since people started believing his ideas.

 

You need to realize the god first which is inside your mortal body

and then need to talk on "faith" and "believe"

 

I would forward you my earlier mail as well which you have not

responded although you are responding to some other mails wherein you

see a chance to prove your point.

 

I hope you will take the above in positive sense and will try to

answer all the questions so to take it forward.

 

With sincere regards,

 

Prakash Kandpal

 

 

vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar <satpath1>

wrote:

> Namaste Mukund Ji,

>

> Please donot take this mail badly as the example given is purely

for understanding the concept of faith and belief and not pointing

towards any one person but to all humans.

>

> I have also given the definitions of faith and belief earlier. Here

I am repeating again.

> Faith requires no evidence while belief require evidences and

reasoning.

>

> Like for e.g a dog by nature is faithful to the person who gives

him bread. The dog do whatever best he is capable of to protect his

master and his belongings. The dog do not care whether his master is

a criminal person or a virtuous person. For a dog his master is

everything .

>

> Human beings by nature are inquisitive and believe something based

upon evidences.

> A child of 3-4 yrs age has full faith on whatever his parents and

other family members say, without asking for any evidence , I met

many kids who says that there parents are the wisest,strongest and

richest in the world. Even if you say that its wrong they would not

accept it because of ignorance.

>

> But as the child grows he start gaining inputs from other sources

as well like his friends , teachers, shops , TV etc. The same child

now understands the staus of his parents.

>

> What it proves is that humans have faith on something which they

inherited from their dear ones and so far they donot know anything

about it. But again the human faith is nowhere near the faith of a

dog. For a dog his master remains the best throughout his life.

> Similarly all of us because of our ignorance or no knowledge in

many areas believe whatever the experts(Which we believe) says.

>

> Same thing applies to theology, religion etc. When a child is born

he automatically inherits the religion practiced by his parents. His

parents also inherited the same religion in same way .

>

> Now unless a person (however old he is) increases his knowledge in

the religion he follows as well as other religions and compare that

what he is following conforms to the law of nature or not (like

majority of people in many religions still have faith that Sun ,

Moon, Shani, Brihaspati are living beings), universality of truth, in

conformance with the Gods nature and his attributes , teachings of

altruistic teachers etc., till then he never reaches truth.

>

> And this ignorance of ours is used by the so called religion gurus

(otherwise thugs and cheats) to devide the human beings and gain the

power and money through it.

>

> The human beings only have the capability to know the truth and

reject untruth, but because of ignorance , stubborness etc. accepts

untruth and reject truth.

>

> What you call the blind followers of any religion who have faith in

it like a dog has on his master(whether good or bad). Are these blind

followers humans or dogs ?

>

> There are undoubtedly many learned men among the followers of every

religion. Should they free themselves from prejudice, accept the

universal truths – that is those truths that are to be found alike in

all religions and are of universal application-,reject all things in

which the various religions differ and treat each other lovingly, it

will be greatly to the advantage of the world, for it cannot be

denied that differences among the learned create bad blood among the

ignorant masses. This leads to the multiplication of all sorts of

sorrows and sufferings and destroys human happiness.

>

> This evil, which is so dear to the heart of the selfish, has hurled

mankind into the deepest depths of misery. Whoever tries to do

anything with the object of benefiting mankind is opposed by selfish

people and various kinds of obstacles are thrown away. But finding

solace in the belief that ultimately truth must conquer and not error

and that it is the path of rectitude alone that men and women of

learning and piety have always trodden, true teachers never become

indifferent to the promotion of public good and never give up the

promulgation of truth.

>

> Bhagvad Gita says that everything calculated to the advancement of

knowledge and righteousness is like poison to begin with but like

nectar in the end.

>

> To have a rational analysis of all major religions of the world ,

read the book "Light of Truth" available at.

>

> www.vjsingh.com/books.html

>

>

> Regards

>

> Rajeev

>

>

>

>

>

> monmuk111 <monmuk111> wrote:

> Hello Rajiv:

>

> Rajeev, I've said this once and I'll say it again. What you're

> challenging is our faith. We on this dicussion group and we

> collectively as Hindus feel that astrology is Vedic and astrology

is

> an integral part of our culture and our heritage.

>

> Now, I'm not calling atrology a science or a perfect science as I

> myself haven't seen an astrologer make an accurate prediction.

>

> However, what I'm saying is that for Hindus, astrology is sacred.

Ya,

> some unsculprous Brahmin families have exploited this sacredness,

> yet, it still remains sacred for the Hindus.

>

> If you challenge the Vedicness of astrology, then you should

> challenge the authenticity of the Jewish Torahs and the

authenticity

> of the Chritian Bible as well.

>

> Did Moses really to up the mountain and have a discourse with God?

I

> can't prove this, no Jew can prove this, but the entire Jewish

faith

> believes it.

>

> Did Jesus walk on water, did Jesus cure the sick? I can't prove

this,

> no Christian can prove this, but the entire Christian faith

believes

> it.

>

> Rajeev, you're challenging OUR FAITH. FAITH is abstract, FAITH is a

> way of life. My FAITH doesn't need any postulate or theorems to

prove

> or dis-prove it. All that matters is that I'm a BELIEVER.

>

> Therefore Rajeev, drop your infantile arguments and shed your

hidden

> agenda (whatever it may be) and go to a discussion group where you

> have an opportunity to prove or dis-prove something TANGIBLE.

>

> We're believers and we'll continue to be believers. You're wasting

> your words here.

>

> I'm hoping other members of the board won't engage in any more

> arguments with Rajeev as it is just a MOOT argument.

>

> Mukund

>

>

> vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

<satpath1>

> wrote:

> > Namaste Sanjay Rath Ji,

> >

> > It's simply a trick they play and it appears devine to viewers.

> > If his faith is so strong then ask him to stand in the center of

> fire pit for about 1 minute .

> > You have to take him on your shoulders.

> > Why donot you master the art of moving on fire , if it is due to

> Gods. Had it been due to God's grace your servant would have

become

> your master.

> >

> > PC Sarkar the great magician has once made the whole Rajdhani

> Express disappear before a crowd of people and Basu Chaterjee the

> chief minister of Bengal was there to witness it. But PC Sarkar

> declares that these are arts and so does many stage show artists.

> Magicians can show you coins coming out from your pant. If they are

> so powerful then after every show why do they beg for money before

> the crowd.

> >

> > These are different types of tricks and nothing else.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Rajeev

> >

> > Sanjay Rath <srath@s...> wrote:

> >

> > Om Gurave Namah

> > Dear Rajeev

> > Challenge must be more meaningful. One of my servants walks the

> fire every year as a test of his FAITH of Sri Lingaraja &

> Bhuvaneshwari devi, the deitis of Bhuvaneswar. Are you willing to

> walk this fire. It is a small pit - 4 feet wide, 4 feet deep and

> about 30 feet long. Wood charcoal shall be burning at the bottom of

> the pit and the fire shall be about 12-15 feet high. The condition

is

> simple - not a single hair must be burnt. Are you accepting this

> challenge. If you lose, you must give up all this tirade against

> hinduism and must live in Bhubaneswar (welcome to the land of the

> faithful ones) and practise your sadhana. This event takes place

> every year and is attended by many people. Can you pass this test

of

> SHIVA? Do you have the faith and internal strength? if not know

that

> your words are borne out of passion and are like poison for your

own

> atma.

> > Best Regards,

> > Sanjay Rath

> > http://srath.com

> > -

> > onlyhari

> > vedic astrology

> > Thursday, September 11, 2003 5:51 AM

> > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology is it Vedic ????????????

(

> To all concerned)

> >

> >

> > ||Om Brihaspataye Namah||

> >

> > Namaste Rajeev,

> > > If Astrologers say that they have control over the celestial

> > bodies than if two persons one believer of astrology(like you)

and

> > other nonbeliever like me walk bare footed on the heated sands of

> > Rajasthan in the month of May or June during day time(1.00 PM to

> > 3.00PM) when the summer is at its peak. At that time if your feet

> > are not burnt( because sun is in your(astrologers control )and

only

> > my feet are burnt then I will accept whatever you say, otherwise

> > accept what I am saying.

> > >

> >

> > ASTROLOGERS DO NOT CLAIM THAT THEY HAVE CONTROL OVER THE

CELESTIAL

> > BODIES. THAT IS THE CENTRAL PRINCIPLE PRACTICED ON THIS FORUM. AS

> > TANVIR SAID, I WILL JOIN YOU IN CALLING ANY ASTROLOGER, WHO MAKES

> > SUCH A CLAIM, AS FRAUD.

> >

> > SIR, YOU ARE EXTRAPOLATING AGAIN. YOU HAVE NOT MADE A SINGLE

> ATTEMPT

> > TO GO THROUGH THE ARCHIVES AND SEE THE WORK DONE BY THE GURUS IN

> > SOLVING THE COMMON MAN'S PROBLEMS. PLEASE DO NOT MAKE PROVOCATIVE

> > STATEMENTS LIKE THIS. WE ARE WORKING HARD TO RESTORE THE GLORY OF

> > INDIA'S ANCIENT AND RICH SPIRITUAL HERITAGE SO THAT THE FUTURE

> > GENERATIONS WILL BE BENEFITED. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE WHAT WE ARE

> > ATTEMPTING TO DO, PLEASE TAKE YOUR TRUTHS, EXPERIENCES AND

> > INTELLECTUAL BAGGAGE ELSEWHERE. THAT IS MY HUMBLE REQUEST TO YOU.

> >

> > Regards

> > Hari

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

>

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> >

> >

> > Terms of

> Service.

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

>

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> >

> >

> > Terms of

> Service.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> Sponsor

>

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

 

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

>

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Rajeev Ji,

 

Rajeev Ji you wrote

 

Yes I have not answered many mails, because most of the questions

raised were either already answered as well as time and resources

(like availability of computer and internet) is also a limitation for

all of us.

 

My answer

 

Rajeev ji I didn't see any mails pertaining to the questions I have

raised if I am not mistaken here. Yes, I understand that the

resources are limited with all of us.

 

Rajeev Ji you wrote

 

Yes you are right in absence of a true mediator the discussion may

not end up to the true conclusion. That's why in the beginning itself

I have asked that Vedas are the ultimate authority to decide.

 

My answer

 

You seem to be logical in your approach in accepting the truth that

one need's a mediator to decide on the outcome of a debate. Yet, you

have tried to make it a point that there is no other superior

authority other than Vedas is the deciding faculty.

 

Alas! You have discarded God whose limbs Vedas are by saying that

Vedas are the only deciding authority and not the God who created

Vedas! Do you believe in this statement or is it your faith or you

have read it somewhere or you have seen someone writing this

statement that Vedas are the ultimate authority of decision? Please

furnish proof.

 

Rajeev Ji you wrote

 

I have read about AdiGuru ShankraCharya Ji and I have a deep regard

for him but consider him a pious and virtuous human being and so does

apply to Shri Krishna and Rama and other great personalities.

 

My answer

 

Yes, you are right that all these great people were born as human

beings first and were pious souls.

 

Rajeev Ji you wrote

 

My understanding is based on Vedas which clearly states God as

eternal, conscious, blissful, formless, birthless, omniscient, only

one, omnipresent etc.

 

My answer

 

Above you have discarded God wherein you wrote that Vedas are the

only deciding authority. Now you are changing colour between words

and stating that God does exist and trying to give words for God! Is

it your faith or believe? Have you read this before? Have you seen

God? If not how can you define or answer that. Please furnish proof

with respect to the above.

 

Rajeev Ji you wrote

 

Where as Atma (jeev) is eternal, conscious etc.

 

My answer

 

So, now besides Vedas & God, Atma becomes another deciding faculty.

Isn't it?

 

Rajeev ji you wrote

 

And the material beings are eternal without conscious etc.

 

My answer

 

Yes, you are correct. So, they cann't decide on anything.

 

Rajeev Ji you wrote

 

The atma goes through the cycles of death and birth in different

yonis based upon their Karmas. Its possible that we all have been

through dogs or even worse yonis before being human.

 

My answer

 

Rajeev ji, consciously you don't remember whether you were a dog in

some earlier birth. Why do you have to include "we all" when I asked

certain questions from you. Are you the decider of all our wills

besides Vedas, God & Atma? Who gave you this right? Can you please

elaborate since few lines above you have written that Vedas are the

only deciding faculty?

 

Rajeev ji you wrote

 

Entering of ShankraCharya in the body of a differnet human to learn

knowledge clearly indicates that ShankraCharya was a human being.

Becasue had he been God 's avtaar he must have all knowledge by

default.

 

My answer

 

So now you have started believing in God's avatar's as well. Is it

mentioned in Vedas at all – i.e. about avatars?

 

Rajeev ji you wrote

 

Entering of ShankraCharya in the body of a differnet human or any

othe yoni is possible only after his death. So here instead of taking

the literal meaning we have to understand the context and then decide

the true meaning. Cheaters have made people fools here.

 

My answer

 

Rajeev ji please elaborate on the contextual meaning above. As far

as what I have read I have already written that if you want me to

elaborate on this I will do that.

 

Rajeev ji you wrote

 

Remember in mythology anything is possible. But truth is universal

and not limited by time and place. So entering of soul of

ShankraCharya in other human means that ShankraCharya learnt from

that human whom you are considering dead, the king was not dead but

its the cheaters who manipulated it so as to make the story look

devine to blind followers. Even now if you would not enter my soul

and understand the context you would understand what I have said.

 

My answer

 

At least you accept that this would have been written by some

cheats. According to your own words – "tell me how do I believe that

the Vedas you have read or believe are in its original form". Here,

I see a possibility that the Vedas you have read may have been

written/translated by some cheats.

 

Rajeev ji you wrote

 

Its not necessary to first cut your hand and then conclude that a

sword can cut hands too. Therefore its not necessary also to first

enter into dogs body and then conclude it faithfulness. Learned

learns from the mistakes of others instead of doing the mistakes

themselves and then concluding. Similarly dog is a faithful animal to

wise.

 

My answer

 

Now you have again come to the "dog" issue. OK I would request the

learned members and Gurus is there any kind of similarity in cutting

hands and faithfulness of dog. Haven't you ever heard of dogs that

hurt their own owners.

 

Rajeev ji you wrote

 

I never said that Swami Dayananda is the only authority to truth.

Truth is not a property which belongs to a particular man, but its a

universal thing. Swami DayaNanda in his book "SatyarthPrakash(Light

of Truth)" has written that if somebody finds any fault then after

analysis of the truth will be accepted.

 

My answer

 

So, you need to mention whether you go according to Swami DayaNanda

or you have your own "tests for truth". Since you gave examples

of "SatyarthPrakash" in the last mail I think I need to ask this.

 

Rajeev ji you wrote

 

But on Vedas all Vedic Rishis like Manu, Kapil, Brahma,Kanaad etc

have the opinion that they are error free and so does I accept.

 

My answer

 

Rajeev ji have you got any proof about the time when these great

Rishis were born and gave these comments in front of you. If not

then is there any guarantee that these facts are not distorted.

 

Rajeev ji you wrote

 

Because unless the truth is realized till that time the teaching of

altruistic teachers are considered as truth.

 

My answer

 

You still have to go a long while to realize the ultimate truth

before you show its validity. Since according to me Lord Rama

realized the truth, lord Krishna realized the truth and lord Buddha

realized the truth and many other great saints.

 

Rajeev ji you wrote

 

Please ask few questions as time is not permiting me to write the

whole answers. I am sure the cheaters will be happy with this

limitation of mine of not answering , but the learned will understand

me.

 

My answer

 

Rajeev ji, to understand the truth and realize it you have to go

through all this or even you may have to go through this further or

wander like lord Buddha to enlighten yourself.

 

With sincere regards,

Prakash Kandpal

 

vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar <satpath1>

wrote:

> Namaste Praksh Ji,

>

> Yes I have not answered many mails, because most of the questions

raised were either already answered as well as time and resources

(like availability of computer and internet ) is also a limitation

for all of us.

>

> Yes you are right in absence of a true mediator the discussion may

not end up to the true conclusion. Thats why in the beginning itself

I have asked that Vedas are the ultimate authority to decide.

>

> I have read about AdiGuru ShankraCharya Ji and I have a deep regard

for him but consider him a pious and virtuous human being and so does

apply to Shri Krishna and Rama and other great personalities.

>

> My understanding is based on Vedas which clearly states God as

eternal ,conscious,blissful,formless, birthless, omniscient,only one,

omnipresent etc.

>

> Where as Atma (jeev) is eternal,conscious etc.

>

> And the material beings are eternal without conscious etc.

>

> The atma goes through the cycles of death and birth in different

yonis based upon their Karmas. Its possible that we all have been

through dogs or even worse yonis before being human.

>

> Entering of ShankraCharya in the body of a differnet human to learn

knowledge clearly indicates that ShankraCharya was a human being.

Becasue had he been God 's avtaar he must have all knowledge by

default.

>

> Entering of ShankraCharya in the body of a differnet human or any

othe yoni is possible only after his death. So here instead of taking

the literal meaning we have to understand the context and then decide

the true meaning. Cheaters have made people fools here.

>

> Remember in mythology anything is possible . But truth is

universal and not limited by time and place. So entering of soul of

ShankraCharya in other human means that ShankraCharya learnt from

that human whom you are considering dead, the king was not dead but

its the cheaters who manipulated it so as to make the story look

devine to blind followers. Even now if you would not enter my soul

and understand the context you would not understand what I have said.

>

> Its not necessary to first cut your hand and then conclude that a

sword can cut hands too. Therefore its not necessary also to first

enter into dogs body and then conclude it faithfulness. Learned

learns from the mistakes of others instead of doing the mistakes

themselves and then concluding. Similarly dog is a faithful animal to

wise .

>

> I never said that Swami Dayananda is the only authority to truth.

Truth is not a property which belongs to a particular man, but its a

universal thing. Swami DayaNanda in his book "SatyarthPrakash(Light

of Truth)" has written that if somebody finds any fault then after

analysis of the truth will be accepted .

>

> But on Vedas all Vedic Rishis like Manu, Kapil, Brahma,Kanaad etc

have the opinion that they are error free and so does I accept.

Because unless the truth is realized till that time the teaching of

altruistic teachers are considered as truth.

>

> Please ask few questions as time is not permiting me to write the

whole answers. I am sure the cheaters will be happy with this

limitation of mine of not answering , but the learned will understand

me.

>

> Regards

>

> Rajeev

>

>

>

>

> Prakash Kandpal <prakashkandpal> wrote:

> Dear Rajeev,

>

> It is good to reach a conclusion based on the outcome of

> discussions/debates yet what you say may be true to yourself but

not

> to others with whom you are trying to discuss/debate.

>

> To debate on a particular issue is good but without a knowledgeable

> mediator it is difficult to reach a conclusion.

>

> If you have read about Adiguru Shankaracharya ever he never

discussed

> with anybody without a wise and knowledgeable mediator (take the

case

> of Sh. Madan with whom he debated for 17 odd days-who later became

> his disciple and Sh. Madan's wife was a mediator in that debate

since

> she was suppossed to be an Avatar of Goddess Saraswati). Later he

> debated with the wife of Sh. Madan for which he had to enter the

body

> of a dead king to debate on "Kamashastra".

>

> Have you ever entered the body of a dog to define its faith?

>

> I will strongly say that you have no right to define the faith of a

> dog till the time you yourself were not at the dog's position or

you

> yourself are not a dog. I hope you don't mind since this is a

debate

> whose outcome will do some good.

>

> How do you say what Swami Dayanand Saraswati wrote was 100% correct

> on Vedas?

>

> How do you say that the "tests of truth" are correct?

>

> How do we take that whatever is written/translated on the link you

> provide is 100% correct although I have not gone through it.

>

> Lord Krishna unfolded Bhagwat Gita because he was an incarnation

thus

> realized and he had a realized shishya who had some doubts? It was

> lord whose maya was unfolding at Kurukshetra.

>

> Lord Rama was a realized one and he was the only and real "maryada

> purushottam" at that point of time when people were degrading.

>

> Lord Buddha gave sermons when he himself realized truth and people

> listened to it since people started believing his ideas.

>

> You need to realize the god first which is inside your mortal body

> and then need to talk on "faith" and "believe"

>

> I would forward you my earlier mail as well which you have not

> responded although you are responding to some other mails wherein

you

> see a chance to prove your point.

>

> I hope you will take the above in positive sense and will try to

> answer all the questions so to take it forward.

>

> With sincere regards,

>

> Prakash Kandpal

>

>

> vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

<satpath1>

> wrote:

> > Namaste Mukund Ji,

> >

> > Please donot take this mail badly as the example given is purely

> for understanding the concept of faith and belief and not pointing

> towards any one person but to all humans.

> >

> > I have also given the definitions of faith and belief earlier.

Here

> I am repeating again.

> > Faith requires no evidence while belief require evidences and

> reasoning.

> >

> > Like for e.g a dog by nature is faithful to the person who gives

> him bread. The dog do whatever best he is capable of to protect his

> master and his belongings. The dog do not care whether his master

is

> a criminal person or a virtuous person. For a dog his master is

> everything .

> >

> > Human beings by nature are inquisitive and believe something

based

> upon evidences.

> > A child of 3-4 yrs age has full faith on whatever his parents

and

> other family members say, without asking for any evidence , I met

> many kids who says that there parents are the wisest,strongest and

> richest in the world. Even if you say that its wrong they would not

> accept it because of ignorance.

> >

> > But as the child grows he start gaining inputs from other sources

> as well like his friends , teachers, shops , TV etc. The same child

> now understands the staus of his parents.

> >

> > What it proves is that humans have faith on something which they

> inherited from their dear ones and so far they donot know anything

> about it. But again the human faith is nowhere near the faith of a

> dog. For a dog his master remains the best throughout his life.

> > Similarly all of us because of our ignorance or no knowledge in

> many areas believe whatever the experts(Which we believe) says.

> >

> > Same thing applies to theology, religion etc. When a child is

born

> he automatically inherits the religion practiced by his parents.

His

> parents also inherited the same religion in same way .

> >

> > Now unless a person (however old he is) increases his knowledge

in

> the religion he follows as well as other religions and compare that

> what he is following conforms to the law of nature or not (like

> majority of people in many religions still have faith that Sun ,

> Moon, Shani, Brihaspati are living beings), universality of truth,

in

> conformance with the Gods nature and his attributes , teachings of

> altruistic teachers etc., till then he never reaches truth.

> >

> > And this ignorance of ours is used by the so called religion

gurus

> (otherwise thugs and cheats) to devide the human beings and gain

the

> power and money through it.

> >

> > The human beings only have the capability to know the truth and

> reject untruth, but because of ignorance , stubborness etc. accepts

> untruth and reject truth.

> >

> > What you call the blind followers of any religion who have faith

in

> it like a dog has on his master(whether good or bad). Are these

blind

> followers humans or dogs ?

> >

> > There are undoubtedly many learned men among the followers of

every

> religion. Should they free themselves from prejudice, accept the

> universal truths – that is those truths that are to be found alike

in

> all religions and are of universal application-,reject all things

in

> which the various religions differ and treat each other lovingly,

it

> will be greatly to the advantage of the world, for it cannot be

> denied that differences among the learned create bad blood among

the

> ignorant masses. This leads to the multiplication of all sorts of

> sorrows and sufferings and destroys human happiness.

> >

> > This evil, which is so dear to the heart of the selfish, has

hurled

> mankind into the deepest depths of misery. Whoever tries to do

> anything with the object of benefiting mankind is opposed by

selfish

> people and various kinds of obstacles are thrown away. But finding

> solace in the belief that ultimately truth must conquer and not

error

> and that it is the path of rectitude alone that men and women of

> learning and piety have always trodden, true teachers never become

> indifferent to the promotion of public good and never give up the

> promulgation of truth.

> >

> > Bhagvad Gita says that everything calculated to the advancement

of

> knowledge and righteousness is like poison to begin with but like

> nectar in the end.

> >

> > To have a rational analysis of all major religions of the world ,

> read the book "Light of Truth" available at.

> >

> > www.vjsingh.com/books.html

> >

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Rajeev

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > monmuk111 <monmuk111> wrote:

> > Hello Rajiv:

> >

> > Rajeev, I've said this once and I'll say it again. What you're

> > challenging is our faith. We on this dicussion group and we

> > collectively as Hindus feel that astrology is Vedic and astrology

> is

> > an integral part of our culture and our heritage.

> >

> > Now, I'm not calling atrology a science or a perfect science as I

> > myself haven't seen an astrologer make an accurate prediction.

> >

> > However, what I'm saying is that for Hindus, astrology is sacred.

> Ya,

> > some unsculprous Brahmin families have exploited this sacredness,

> > yet, it still remains sacred for the Hindus.

> >

> > If you challenge the Vedicness of astrology, then you should

> > challenge the authenticity of the Jewish Torahs and the

> authenticity

> > of the Chritian Bible as well.

> >

> > Did Moses really to up the mountain and have a discourse with

God?

> I

> > can't prove this, no Jew can prove this, but the entire Jewish

> faith

> > believes it.

> >

> > Did Jesus walk on water, did Jesus cure the sick? I can't prove

> this,

> > no Christian can prove this, but the entire Christian faith

> believes

> > it.

> >

> > Rajeev, you're challenging OUR FAITH. FAITH is abstract, FAITH is

a

> > way of life. My FAITH doesn't need any postulate or theorems to

> prove

> > or dis-prove it. All that matters is that I'm a BELIEVER.

> >

> > Therefore Rajeev, drop your infantile arguments and shed your

> hidden

> > agenda (whatever it may be) and go to a discussion group where

you

> > have an opportunity to prove or dis-prove something TANGIBLE.

> >

> > We're believers and we'll continue to be believers. You're

wasting

> > your words here.

> >

> > I'm hoping other members of the board won't engage in any more

> > arguments with Rajeev as it is just a MOOT argument.

> >

> > Mukund

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

> <satpath1>

> > wrote:

> > > Namaste Sanjay Rath Ji,

> > >

> > > It's simply a trick they play and it appears devine to viewers.

> > > If his faith is so strong then ask him to stand in the center

of

> > fire pit for about 1 minute .

> > > You have to take him on your shoulders.

> > > Why donot you master the art of moving on fire , if it is due

to

> > Gods. Had it been due to God's grace your servant would have

> become

> > your master.

> > >

> > > PC Sarkar the great magician has once made the whole Rajdhani

> > Express disappear before a crowd of people and Basu Chaterjee the

> > chief minister of Bengal was there to witness it. But PC Sarkar

> > declares that these are arts and so does many stage show artists.

> > Magicians can show you coins coming out from your pant. If they

are

> > so powerful then after every show why do they beg for money

before

> > the crowd.

> > >

> > > These are different types of tricks and nothing else.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Rajeev

> > >

> > > Sanjay Rath <srath@s...> wrote:

> > >

> > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > Dear Rajeev

> > > Challenge must be more meaningful. One of my servants walks the

> > fire every year as a test of his FAITH of Sri Lingaraja &

> > Bhuvaneshwari devi, the deitis of Bhuvaneswar. Are you willing to

> > walk this fire. It is a small pit - 4 feet wide, 4 feet deep and

> > about 30 feet long. Wood charcoal shall be burning at the bottom

of

> > the pit and the fire shall be about 12-15 feet high. The

condition

> is

> > simple - not a single hair must be burnt. Are you accepting this

> > challenge. If you lose, you must give up all this tirade against

> > hinduism and must live in Bhubaneswar (welcome to the land of the

> > faithful ones) and practise your sadhana. This event takes place

> > every year and is attended by many people. Can you pass this test

> of

> > SHIVA? Do you have the faith and internal strength? if not know

> that

> > your words are borne out of passion and are like poison for your

> own

> > atma.

> > > Best Regards,

> > > Sanjay Rath

> > > http://srath.com

> > > -

> > > onlyhari

> > > vedic astrology

> > > Thursday, September 11, 2003 5:51 AM

> > > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology is it

Vedic ????????????

> (

> > To all concerned)

> > >

> > >

> > > ||Om Brihaspataye Namah||

> > >

> > > Namaste Rajeev,

> > > > If Astrologers say that they have control over the celestial

> > > bodies than if two persons one believer of astrology(like you)

> and

> > > other nonbeliever like me walk bare footed on the heated sands

of

> > > Rajasthan in the month of May or June during day time(1.00 PM

to

> > > 3.00PM) when the summer is at its peak. At that time if your

feet

> > > are not burnt( because sun is in your(astrologers control )and

> only

> > > my feet are burnt then I will accept whatever you say,

otherwise

> > > accept what I am saying.

> > > >

> > >

> > > ASTROLOGERS DO NOT CLAIM THAT THEY HAVE CONTROL OVER THE

> CELESTIAL

> > > BODIES. THAT IS THE CENTRAL PRINCIPLE PRACTICED ON THIS FORUM.

AS

> > > TANVIR SAID, I WILL JOIN YOU IN CALLING ANY ASTROLOGER, WHO

MAKES

> > > SUCH A CLAIM, AS FRAUD.

> > >

> > > SIR, YOU ARE EXTRAPOLATING AGAIN. YOU HAVE NOT MADE A SINGLE

> > ATTEMPT

> > > TO GO THROUGH THE ARCHIVES AND SEE THE WORK DONE BY THE GURUS

IN

> > > SOLVING THE COMMON MAN'S PROBLEMS. PLEASE DO NOT MAKE

PROVOCATIVE

> > > STATEMENTS LIKE THIS. WE ARE WORKING HARD TO RESTORE THE GLORY

OF

> > > INDIA'S ANCIENT AND RICH SPIRITUAL HERITAGE SO THAT THE FUTURE

> > > GENERATIONS WILL BE BENEFITED. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE WHAT WE ARE

> > > ATTEMPTING TO DO, PLEASE TAKE YOUR TRUTHS, EXPERIENCES AND

> > > INTELLECTUAL BAGGAGE ELSEWHERE. THAT IS MY HUMBLE REQUEST TO

YOU.

> > >

> > > Regards

> > > Hari

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Group info: vedic-

astrology/info.html

> > >

> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> >

> > >

> > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Terms of

> > Service.

> > >

> > > Sponsor

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Group info: vedic-

astrology/info.html

> > >

> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> >

> > >

> > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Terms of

> > Service.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

>

> >

> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> >

> >

> >

> > Terms of

> Service.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> Sponsor

>

>

>

>

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

 

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

>

>

> Terms of

Service.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Rajeev,

 

I sent my reply to you when I received your mail on my personal

id.

 

With sincere regards,

Prakash Kandpal

 

vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar <satpath1>

wrote:

>

> Namaste ,

>

> This is perhaps my last mail to this site , I think I gave

suffificient time and answered with the best of my knowledge and

understanding. The fight between right and wrong is there since the

creation of this universe and will remain till the end of it.

>

> If any body wants to still discuss then please send me personal

mails . I found discussion with AmolMandar Ji good , though we have

not agreed to each other view.

>

> And even in the last reply AmolMandar Ji sent, he has missed the

context by saying Delhi and Lahore in North direction. His view is

right, if we are sitting in a space ship etc., but as I said the

person is sitting in a Train ,so Delhi is in south direction compared

to Lahore. So both Delhi and Lahore are in opposite directions with

respect to the movement of train.

>

> In Mumbai the train lines are used to decide the directions for e.g

we say Bandra east, and Bandra west, Andheri(east) and Andheri(west)

and soon. I donot understand why he did so ? is it right practice ?

>

> Amol don't answer me or to anybody but answer to yourself and you

will get the answer.

>

> I wish all of you people to have good health and success in

truthful endeavours.

>

> I am specially grateful to the site administrator , he is a

virtuous soul . I have been to various islamic sites as well, these

people moderate their sites to suppress the truth and let only those

mails published which favour islam.

>

> May the almighty inspire us to the way of truth

>

> Thanks to all of you again.

>

> Rajeev

>

> Prakash Ji here are my answers.

>

> In many mails I have said that Vedas are from God , so the

objections raised by you of not taking God as the mediator is

automatically vanishes. Vedas are eternal as God is eternal and Vedas

are God's knowledge. The attributes of an object which himself is

eternal are also eternal. And Vedas are not the physical books , as

books have limited life, but Vedas are the knowledge written in them

and the knowledge is subject of intellect.

>

> I have belief on God's existence .

> In Yajur Veda chapter 40, God says I am near to the learned and far

from the fools, Fools consider God moving and located at some place

whereas for learned God is everywhere. The design and engineering

within the our own body , creation of universe and their control

requires some universal controller as well as testimony of Vedic

Rishis .

>

> I am not the only decider of Truth , but you have missed the

context totally .Its not my fault. But truth is one . In Manusmriti

its written that Vedas are the ultimate authority to decide upon

truth other scriptures are helpful but

> I don't believe in God's Avtaar , its only you who used the word

Avtaar for Madan's wife and many people consider Adi ShankraCharya as

Shiva's Avtaar and also many films are there on this. I have infact

condemned the concept of Avtaar, forget about my accepting it. I

don't believe in Avtaar, as God cannot take birth.

> As far as use of SatyarthPrakash is concerned so far as ,it is

in line with truth I will accept it and if anywhere any doubt is

there I would not accept it. And as I said earlier that truth is not

a personal property of anybody but belongs to all .

> Even I donot know when you were born, if the facts are distorted

then truth can be derived by using tests of truths.

>

>

> Prakash Kandpal <prakashkandpal> wrote: Namaste Rajeev Ji,

>

> Rajeev Ji you wrote

>

> Yes I have not answered many mails, because most of the questions

> raised were either already answered as well as time and resources

> (like availability of computer and internet) is also a limitation

for

> all of us.

>

> My answer

>

> Rajeev ji I didn't see any mails pertaining to the questions I have

> raised if I am not mistaken here. Yes, I understand that the

> resources are limited with all of us.

>

> Rajeev Ji you wrote

>

> Yes you are right in absence of a true mediator the discussion may

> not end up to the true conclusion. That's why in the beginning

itself

> I have asked that Vedas are the ultimate authority to decide.

>

> My answer

>

> You seem to be logical in your approach in accepting the truth that

> one need's a mediator to decide on the outcome of a debate. Yet,

you

> have tried to make it a point that there is no other superior

> authority other than Vedas is the deciding faculty.

>

> Alas! You have discarded God whose limbs Vedas are by saying that

> Vedas are the only deciding authority and not the God who created

> Vedas! Do you believe in this statement or is it your faith or you

> have read it somewhere or you have seen someone writing this

> statement that Vedas are the ultimate authority of decision?

Please

> furnish proof.

>

> Rajeev Ji you wrote

>

> I have read about AdiGuru ShankraCharya Ji and I have a deep regard

> for him but consider him a pious and virtuous human being and so

does

> apply to Shri Krishna and Rama and other great personalities.

>

> My answer

>

> Yes, you are right that all these great people were born as human

> beings first and were pious souls.

>

> Rajeev Ji you wrote

>

> My understanding is based on Vedas which clearly states God as

> eternal, conscious, blissful, formless, birthless, omniscient, only

> one, omnipresent etc.

>

> My answer

>

> Above you have discarded God wherein you wrote that Vedas are the

> only deciding authority. Now you are changing colour between words

> and stating that God does exist and trying to give words for God!

Is

> it your faith or believe? Have you read this before? Have you

seen

> God? If not how can you define or answer that. Please furnish

proof

> with respect to the above.

>

> Rajeev Ji you wrote

>

> Where as Atma (jeev) is eternal, conscious etc.

>

> My answer

>

> So, now besides Vedas & God, Atma becomes another deciding

faculty.

> Isn't it?

>

> Rajeev ji you wrote

>

> And the material beings are eternal without conscious etc.

>

> My answer

>

> Yes, you are correct. So, they cann't decide on anything.

>

> Rajeev Ji you wrote

>

> The atma goes through the cycles of death and birth in different

> yonis based upon their Karmas. Its possible that we all have been

> through dogs or even worse yonis before being human.

>

> My answer

>

> Rajeev ji, consciously you don't remember whether you were a dog in

> some earlier birth. Why do you have to include "we all" when I

asked

> certain questions from you. Are you the decider of all our wills

> besides Vedas, God & Atma? Who gave you this right? Can you

please

> elaborate since few lines above you have written that Vedas are the

> only deciding faculty?

>

> Rajeev ji you wrote

>

> Entering of ShankraCharya in the body of a differnet human to learn

> knowledge clearly indicates that ShankraCharya was a human being.

> Becasue had he been God 's avtaar he must have all knowledge by

> default.

>

> My answer

>

> So now you have started believing in God's avatar's as well. Is it

> mentioned in Vedas at all – i.e. about avatars?

>

> Rajeev ji you wrote

>

> Entering of ShankraCharya in the body of a differnet human or any

> othe yoni is possible only after his death. So here instead of

taking

> the literal meaning we have to understand the context and then

decide

> the true meaning. Cheaters have made people fools here.

>

> My answer

>

> Rajeev ji please elaborate on the contextual meaning above. As far

> as what I have read I have already written that if you want me to

> elaborate on this I will do that.

>

> Rajeev ji you wrote

>

> Remember in mythology anything is possible. But truth is universal

> and not limited by time and place. So entering of soul of

> ShankraCharya in other human means that ShankraCharya learnt from

> that human whom you are considering dead, the king was not dead but

> its the cheaters who manipulated it so as to make the story look

> devine to blind followers. Even now if you would not enter my soul

> and understand the context you would understand what I have said.

>

> My answer

>

> At least you accept that this would have been written by some

> cheats. According to your own words – "tell me how do I believe

that

> the Vedas you have read or believe are in its original form".

Here,

> I see a possibility that the Vedas you have read may have been

> written/translated by some cheats.

>

> Rajeev ji you wrote

>

> Its not necessary to first cut your hand and then conclude that a

> sword can cut hands too. Therefore its not necessary also to first

> enter into dogs body and then conclude it faithfulness. Learned

> learns from the mistakes of others instead of doing the mistakes

> themselves and then concluding. Similarly dog is a faithful animal

to

> wise.

>

> My answer

>

> Now you have again come to the "dog" issue. OK I would request the

> learned members and Gurus is there any kind of similarity in

cutting

> hands and faithfulness of dog. Haven't you ever heard of dogs that

> hurt their own owners.

>

> Rajeev ji you wrote

>

> I never said that Swami Dayananda is the only authority to truth.

> Truth is not a property which belongs to a particular man, but its

a

> universal thing. Swami DayaNanda in his book "SatyarthPrakash(Light

> of Truth)" has written that if somebody finds any fault then after

> analysis of the truth will be accepted.

>

> My answer

>

> So, you need to mention whether you go according to Swami DayaNanda

> or you have your own "tests for truth". Since you gave examples

> of "SatyarthPrakash" in the last mail I think I need to ask this.

>

> Rajeev ji you wrote

>

> But on Vedas all Vedic Rishis like Manu, Kapil, Brahma,Kanaad etc

> have the opinion that they are error free and so does I accept.

>

> My answer

>

> Rajeev ji have you got any proof about the time when these great

> Rishis were born and gave these comments in front of you. If not

> then is there any guarantee that these facts are not distorted.

>

> Rajeev ji you wrote

>

> Because unless the truth is realized till that time the teaching of

> altruistic teachers are considered as truth.

>

> My answer

>

> You still have to go a long while to realize the ultimate truth

> before you show its validity. Since according to me Lord Rama

> realized the truth, lord Krishna realized the truth and lord Buddha

> realized the truth and many other great saints.

>

> Rajeev ji you wrote

>

> Please ask few questions as time is not permiting me to write the

> whole answers. I am sure the cheaters will be happy with this

> limitation of mine of not answering , but the learned will

understand

> me.

>

> My answer

>

> Rajeev ji, to understand the truth and realize it you have to go

> through all this or even you may have to go through this further or

> wander like lord Buddha to enlighten yourself.

>

> With sincere regards,

> Prakash Kandpal

>

> vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

<satpath1>

> wrote:

> > Namaste Praksh Ji,

> >

> > Yes I have not answered many mails, because most of the

questions

> raised were either already answered as well as time and resources

> (like availability of computer and internet ) is also a limitation

> for all of us.

> >

> > Yes you are right in absence of a true mediator the discussion

may

> not end up to the true conclusion. Thats why in the beginning

itself

> I have asked that Vedas are the ultimate authority to decide.

> >

> > I have read about AdiGuru ShankraCharya Ji and I have a deep

regard

> for him but consider him a pious and virtuous human being and so

does

> apply to Shri Krishna and Rama and other great personalities.

> >

> > My understanding is based on Vedas which clearly states God as

> eternal ,conscious,blissful,formless, birthless, omniscient,only

one,

> omnipresent etc.

> >

> > Where as Atma (jeev) is eternal,conscious etc.

> >

> > And the material beings are eternal without conscious etc.

> >

> > The atma goes through the cycles of death and birth in different

> yonis based upon their Karmas. Its possible that we all have been

> through dogs or even worse yonis before being human.

> >

> > Entering of ShankraCharya in the body of a differnet human to

learn

> knowledge clearly indicates that ShankraCharya was a human being.

> Becasue had he been God 's avtaar he must have all knowledge by

> default.

> >

> > Entering of ShankraCharya in the body of a differnet human or any

> othe yoni is possible only after his death. So here instead of

taking

> the literal meaning we have to understand the context and then

decide

> the true meaning. Cheaters have made people fools here.

> >

> > Remember in mythology anything is possible . But truth is

> universal and not limited by time and place. So entering of soul of

> ShankraCharya in other human means that ShankraCharya learnt from

> that human whom you are considering dead, the king was not dead but

> its the cheaters who manipulated it so as to make the story look

> devine to blind followers. Even now if you would not enter my soul

> and understand the context you would not understand what I have

said.

> >

> > Its not necessary to first cut your hand and then conclude that a

> sword can cut hands too. Therefore its not necessary also to first

> enter into dogs body and then conclude it faithfulness. Learned

> learns from the mistakes of others instead of doing the mistakes

> themselves and then concluding. Similarly dog is a faithful animal

to

> wise .

> >

> > I never said that Swami Dayananda is the only authority to truth.

> Truth is not a property which belongs to a particular man, but its

a

> universal thing. Swami DayaNanda in his book "SatyarthPrakash(Light

> of Truth)" has written that if somebody finds any fault then after

> analysis of the truth will be accepted .

> >

> > But on Vedas all Vedic Rishis like Manu, Kapil, Brahma,Kanaad etc

> have the opinion that they are error free and so does I accept.

> Because unless the truth is realized till that time the teaching of

> altruistic teachers are considered as truth.

> >

> > Please ask few questions as time is not permiting me to write the

> whole answers. I am sure the cheaters will be happy with this

> limitation of mine of not answering , but the learned will

understand

> me.

> >

> > Regards

> >

> > Rajeev

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Prakash Kandpal <prakashkandpal> wrote:

> > Dear Rajeev,

> >

> > It is good to reach a conclusion based on the outcome of

> > discussions/debates yet what you say may be true to yourself but

> not

> > to others with whom you are trying to discuss/debate.

> >

> > To debate on a particular issue is good but without a

knowledgeable

> > mediator it is difficult to reach a conclusion.

> >

> > If you have read about Adiguru Shankaracharya ever he never

> discussed

> > with anybody without a wise and knowledgeable mediator (take the

> case

> > of Sh. Madan with whom he debated for 17 odd days-who later

became

> > his disciple and Sh. Madan's wife was a mediator in that debate

> since

> > she was suppossed to be an Avatar of Goddess Saraswati). Later

he

> > debated with the wife of Sh. Madan for which he had to enter the

> body

> > of a dead king to debate on "Kamashastra".

> >

> > Have you ever entered the body of a dog to define its faith?

> >

> > I will strongly say that you have no right to define the faith of

a

> > dog till the time you yourself were not at the dog's position or

> you

> > yourself are not a dog. I hope you don't mind since this is a

> debate

> > whose outcome will do some good.

> >

> > How do you say what Swami Dayanand Saraswati wrote was 100%

correct

> > on Vedas?

> >

> > How do you say that the "tests of truth" are correct?

> >

> > How do we take that whatever is written/translated on the link

you

> > provide is 100% correct although I have not gone through it.

> >

> > Lord Krishna unfolded Bhagwat Gita because he was an incarnation

> thus

> > realized and he had a realized shishya who had some doubts? It

was

> > lord whose maya was unfolding at Kurukshetra.

> >

> > Lord Rama was a realized one and he was the only and

real "maryada

> > purushottam" at that point of time when people were degrading.

> >

> > Lord Buddha gave sermons when he himself realized truth and

people

> > listened to it since people started believing his ideas.

> >

> > You need to realize the god first which is inside your mortal

body

> > and then need to talk on "faith" and "believe"

> >

> > I would forward you my earlier mail as well which you have not

> > responded although you are responding to some other mails wherein

> you

> > see a chance to prove your point.

> >

> > I hope you will take the above in positive sense and will try to

> > answer all the questions so to take it forward.

> >

> > With sincere regards,

> >

> > Prakash Kandpal

> >

> >

> > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

> <satpath1>

> > wrote:

> > > Namaste Mukund Ji,

> > >

> > > Please donot take this mail badly as the example given is

purely

> > for understanding the concept of faith and belief and not

pointing

> > towards any one person but to all humans.

> > >

> > > I have also given the definitions of faith and belief earlier.

> Here

> > I am repeating again.

> > > Faith requires no evidence while belief require evidences and

> > reasoning.

> > >

> > > Like for e.g a dog by nature is faithful to the person who

gives

> > him bread. The dog do whatever best he is capable of to protect

his

> > master and his belongings. The dog do not care whether his master

> is

> > a criminal person or a virtuous person. For a dog his master is

> > everything .

> > >

> > > Human beings by nature are inquisitive and believe something

> based

> > upon evidences.

> > > A child of 3-4 yrs age has full faith on whatever his parents

> and

> > other family members say, without asking for any evidence , I

met

> > many kids who says that there parents are the wisest,strongest

and

> > richest in the world. Even if you say that its wrong they would

not

> > accept it because of ignorance.

> > >

> > > But as the child grows he start gaining inputs from other

sources

> > as well like his friends , teachers, shops , TV etc. The same

child

> > now understands the staus of his parents.

> > >

> > > What it proves is that humans have faith on something which

they

> > inherited from their dear ones and so far they donot know

anything

> > about it. But again the human faith is nowhere near the faith of

a

> > dog. For a dog his master remains the best throughout his life.

> > > Similarly all of us because of our ignorance or no knowledge in

> > many areas believe whatever the experts(Which we believe) says.

> > >

> > > Same thing applies to theology, religion etc. When a child is

> born

> > he automatically inherits the religion practiced by his parents.

> His

> > parents also inherited the same religion in same way .

> > >

> > > Now unless a person (however old he is) increases his knowledge

> in

> > the religion he follows as well as other religions and compare

that

> > what he is following conforms to the law of nature or not (like

> > majority of people in many religions still have faith that Sun ,

> > Moon, Shani, Brihaspati are living beings), universality of

truth,

> in

> > conformance with the Gods nature and his attributes , teachings

of

> > altruistic teachers etc., till then he never reaches truth.

> > >

> > > And this ignorance of ours is used by the so called religion

> gurus

> > (otherwise thugs and cheats) to devide the human beings and gain

> the

> > power and money through it.

> > >

> > > The human beings only have the capability to know the truth and

> > reject untruth, but because of ignorance , stubborness etc.

accepts

> > untruth and reject truth.

> > >

> > > What you call the blind followers of any religion who have

faith

> in

> > it like a dog has on his master(whether good or bad). Are these

> blind

> > followers humans or dogs ?

> > >

> > > There are undoubtedly many learned men among the followers of

> every

> > religion. Should they free themselves from prejudice, accept the

> > universal truths – that is those truths that are to be found

alike

> in

> > all religions and are of universal application-,reject all things

> in

> > which the various religions differ and treat each other lovingly,

> it

> > will be greatly to the advantage of the world, for it cannot be

> > denied that differences among the learned create bad blood among

> the

> > ignorant masses. This leads to the multiplication of all sorts of

> > sorrows and sufferings and destroys human happiness.

> > >

> > > This evil, which is so dear to the heart of the selfish, has

> hurled

> > mankind into the deepest depths of misery. Whoever tries to do

> > anything with the object of benefiting mankind is opposed by

> selfish

> > people and various kinds of obstacles are thrown away. But

finding

> > solace in the belief that ultimately truth must conquer and not

> error

> > and that it is the path of rectitude alone that men and women of

> > learning and piety have always trodden, true teachers never

become

> > indifferent to the promotion of public good and never give up the

> > promulgation of truth.

> > >

> > > Bhagvad Gita says that everything calculated to the advancement

> of

> > knowledge and righteousness is like poison to begin with but like

> > nectar in the end.

> > >

> > > To have a rational analysis of all major religions of the

world ,

> > read the book "Light of Truth" available at.

> > >

> > > www.vjsingh.com/books.html

> > >

> > >

> > > Regards

> > >

> > > Rajeev

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > monmuk111 <monmuk111> wrote:

> > > Hello Rajiv:

> > >

> > > Rajeev, I've said this once and I'll say it again. What you're

> > > challenging is our faith. We on this dicussion group and we

> > > collectively as Hindus feel that astrology is Vedic and

astrology

> > is

> > > an integral part of our culture and our heritage.

> > >

> > > Now, I'm not calling atrology a science or a perfect science as

I

> > > myself haven't seen an astrologer make an accurate prediction.

> > >

> > > However, what I'm saying is that for Hindus, astrology is

sacred.

> > Ya,

> > > some unsculprous Brahmin families have exploited this

sacredness,

> > > yet, it still remains sacred for the Hindus.

> > >

> > > If you challenge the Vedicness of astrology, then you should

> > > challenge the authenticity of the Jewish Torahs and the

> > authenticity

> > > of the Chritian Bible as well.

> > >

> > > Did Moses really to up the mountain and have a discourse with

> God?

> > I

> > > can't prove this, no Jew can prove this, but the entire Jewish

> > faith

> > > believes it.

> > >

> > > Did Jesus walk on water, did Jesus cure the sick? I can't prove

> > this,

> > > no Christian can prove this, but the entire Christian faith

> > believes

> > > it.

> > >

> > > Rajeev, you're challenging OUR FAITH. FAITH is abstract, FAITH

is

> a

> > > way of life. My FAITH doesn't need any postulate or theorems to

> > prove

> > > or dis-prove it. All that matters is that I'm a BELIEVER.

> > >

> > > Therefore Rajeev, drop your infantile arguments and shed your

> > hidden

> > > agenda (whatever it may be) and go to a discussion group where

> you

> > > have an opportunity to prove or dis-prove something TANGIBLE.

> > >

> > > We're believers and we'll continue to be believers. You're

> wasting

> > > your words here.

> > >

> > > I'm hoping other members of the board won't engage in any more

> > > arguments with Rajeev as it is just a MOOT argument.

> > >

> > > Mukund

> > >

> > >

> > > vedic astrology, Rajeev Kumar

> > <satpath1>

> > > wrote:

> > > > Namaste Sanjay Rath Ji,

> > > >

> > > > It's simply a trick they play and it appears devine to

viewers.

> > > > If his faith is so strong then ask him to stand in the center

> of

> > > fire pit for about 1 minute .

> > > > You have to take him on your shoulders.

> > > > Why donot you master the art of moving on fire , if it is due

> to

> > > Gods. Had it been due to God's grace your servant would have

> > become

> > > your master.

> > > >

> > > > PC Sarkar the great magician has once made the whole Rajdhani

> > > Express disappear before a crowd of people and Basu Chaterjee

the

> > > chief minister of Bengal was there to witness it. But PC Sarkar

> > > declares that these are arts and so does many stage show

artists.

> > > Magicians can show you coins coming out from your pant. If they

> are

> > > so powerful then after every show why do they beg for money

> before

> > > the crowd.

> > > >

> > > > These are different types of tricks and nothing else.

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > >

> > > > Rajeev

> > > >

> > > > Sanjay Rath <srath@s...> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Om Gurave Namah

> > > > Dear Rajeev

> > > > Challenge must be more meaningful. One of my servants walks

the

> > > fire every year as a test of his FAITH of Sri Lingaraja &

> > > Bhuvaneshwari devi, the deitis of Bhuvaneswar. Are you willing

to

> > > walk this fire. It is a small pit - 4 feet wide, 4 feet deep

and

> > > about 30 feet long. Wood charcoal shall be burning at the

bottom

> of

> > > the pit and the fire shall be about 12-15 feet high. The

> condition

> > is

> > > simple - not a single hair must be burnt. Are you accepting

this

> > > challenge. If you lose, you must give up all this tirade

against

> > > hinduism and must live in Bhubaneswar (welcome to the land of

the

> > > faithful ones) and practise your sadhana. This event takes

place

> > > every year and is attended by many people. Can you pass this

test

> > of

> > > SHIVA? Do you have the faith and internal strength? if not know

> > that

> > > your words are borne out of passion and are like poison for

your

> > own

> > > atma.

> > > > Best Regards,

> > > > Sanjay Rath

> > > > http://srath.com

> > > > -

> > > > onlyhari

> > > > vedic astrology

> > > > Thursday, September 11, 2003 5:51 AM

> > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology is it

> Vedic ????????????

> > (

> > > To all concerned)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ||Om Brihaspataye Namah||

> > > >

> > > > Namaste Rajeev,

> > > > > If Astrologers say that they have control over the

celestial

> > > > bodies than if two persons one believer of astrology(like

you)

> > and

> > > > other nonbeliever like me walk bare footed on the heated

sands

> of

> > > > Rajasthan in the month of May or June during day time(1.00 PM

> to

> > > > 3.00PM) when the summer is at its peak. At that time if your

> feet

> > > > are not burnt( because sun is in your(astrologers control )

and

> > only

> > > > my feet are burnt then I will accept whatever you say,

> otherwise

> > > > accept what I am saying.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > ASTROLOGERS DO NOT CLAIM THAT THEY HAVE CONTROL OVER THE

> > CELESTIAL

> > > > BODIES. THAT IS THE CENTRAL PRINCIPLE PRACTICED ON THIS

FORUM.

> AS

> > > > TANVIR SAID, I WILL JOIN YOU IN CALLING ANY ASTROLOGER, WHO

> MAKES

> > > > SUCH A CLAIM, AS FRAUD.

> > > >

> > > > SIR, YOU ARE EXTRAPOLATING AGAIN. YOU HAVE NOT MADE A SINGLE

> > > ATTEMPT

> > > > TO GO THROUGH THE ARCHIVES AND SEE THE WORK DONE BY THE GURUS

> IN

> > > > SOLVING THE COMMON MAN'S PROBLEMS. PLEASE DO NOT MAKE

> PROVOCATIVE

> > > > STATEMENTS LIKE THIS. WE ARE WORKING HARD TO RESTORE THE

GLORY

> OF

> > > > INDIA'S ANCIENT AND RICH SPIRITUAL HERITAGE SO THAT THE

FUTURE

> > > > GENERATIONS WILL BE BENEFITED. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE WHAT WE ARE

> > > > ATTEMPTING TO DO, PLEASE TAKE YOUR TRUTHS, EXPERIENCES AND

> > > > INTELLECTUAL BAGGAGE ELSEWHERE. THAT IS MY HUMBLE REQUEST TO

> YOU.

> > > >

> > > > Regards

> > > > Hari

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Group info: vedic-

> astrology/info.html

> > > >

> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> > >

> > > >

> > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Terms of

> > > Service.

> > > >

> > > > Sponsor

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Group info: vedic-

> astrology/info.html

> > > >

> > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> > >

> > > >

> > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Terms of

> > > Service.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design

software

> > >

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> > >

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> > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

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> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

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> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

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> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

 

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> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

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[Guest guest]

Thanks for ending this discussion. Sorry If i sounded rude before. But the whole

purpose of this group was lost. This group was made(i think) to discuss about

Astrology and suddenly the topic of Veda started. It was only flooding the mail

box.

Thanks

Jyothi

Rajeev Kumar <satpath1 > wrote:

Namaste ,

This is perhaps my last mail to this site ,