Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Dear Partha ji Thanks for igniting the thought process and guiding it through new channels, as you always do:) The statement regarding indications in the Rashi and the necessity of its realization to avoid re occurences were also good. I will search for the various Koshas mentioned.I can also relate or coform with your logic.Because the more you divide the finer you discover.And hence divisional charts shows finer elements. But i am not fully satisfied with the second part. My questions were seeking some explanation plus references from the classics.(House concepts in divisional charts and aspects). Let us assume we are constructing a navamsha chart. We have Rashi in hand.We also have a chart template with no entries for making navamsha. Let us go to Lagna in Rashi ,assume it is Sag.We divide Sag into nine (starting with Aries,as fifth from Sag is Aries).If the degree of lagna is 11 in Rashi, then lagna falls in the fourth navamsha division - Cancer,. We go to our template chart and mark - ASC in Cancer. Similarly we go to second house in Rashi - We divide it into nine and since Capricorn is a movable Rashi, navamsha starts from Capricorn itself.If moon was placed at 2 degrees in Rashi,then moon falls in the first (3.2 degree)division of Navamsha ie Capricorn itself.We go to our template chart and mark MO in Capricorn.But now the house in which moon is placed becomes '7' (as Capricorn is seventh from Cancer).Similarly another planet which was at 29 degrees in 2nd house goes to 3rd house in Virgo.Thus what we have done is, just the scattering of planets in a template chart for the easiness of understanding its finer placements.Only logical thing what we have done is dividing each rashi into 9 and finding the exact nava amsha placement of that planet.But i am unable to find the logic behind following house system similar to Rashi.(I found from cup of magic site the logic behind finding the first navamsha in each sign) Hence my request to help me in finding a reference regarding this in Classics.Similarly aspects are due to the angular placements of planets.Even if we divide a rashi into 100 divisions the planets position remains the same.Only thing what we are discovering new is the finer details of its position(environment).For example when looking from a higher level in human body we can say hand has got nails.But when we divide or go closer we can say the nails are part of the palm and further division says it is part of fingers.Thus we are identifying the finer rashi properties within a Rashi(assuming every rashi consists of tattwas of other rashis(Shiv Chadda jis mail) and also related to nakshatra charana (Chandrashekhar jis mail).But the position of the concerned planet w.r to other planets remains the same irrespective of any number of divisions.Hence the aspects has to remain the same as in Rashi.What do you think? Otherwise we have to find a new logic behind this aspect. Kindly think over this and try to help me.If possible i will be happy if you could give some reference regarding house system and aspects in divisional charts. Best Regds Pradeep vedic astrology, "V.Partha sarathy" <partvinu5> wrote: > Dear Pradeep > > > The divisional charts are the finer layers of the person's being. > > THere are five kosas of a human being according to Shankaracharya > > a) Annamaya Kosa(gross body) > b) Pranamaya Kosa(vital body) > c) Manomaya Kosa(mental body) > d) Vignanamaya Kosa(the intelligence body) > e) Anandamaya Kosa(the bliss sheath) > > The higher divisional charts show the impressions formed and carried > due to the various past life karmas. These impressions if not > detected, would repeat again and again. A person divorcing his wife > in past life may get the problem again, if he does not burn away the > past karma. > > All the rules applicable to Rasi chart are applicable to Divisional > charts. > > Jupiter-moon yoga in a divisional chart is as valid as in rasi chart. > When you see a person, you are actually seeing the gross body. You > are not looking at his aura, the four other bodies, the subtle > impressions that he is carrying. Thus any yoga that is there in > subtle bodies is bound to give its effects. I may not have Gaja > Kesari yoga in present life time, infact i have a sakata yoga. But i > have Gaja kesari yoga in past life, whose rewards i am reaping in > this life. > more later > regards > partha > > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep" > <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > > Dear Parthasarathy ji > > > > Thanks for lending your hand. > > > > I would be happy if you can tell me the basis for navamsha > > division.Because in some Rashis the navamsha counting starts from > > itself,while for others it starts from 5,9. > > > > In classics is there any mention of aspects in divisional > > charts.Because with my understanding so far - i feel if one sees > > amshas as a total chart - it could be misleading.It can be drawn as > > a chart, for easier demonstration of planetary positions. > > > > Because if you see Jupiter and Mars together in Navamsha say in > Leo - > > they cannot be actually together,unless they are together in > > Rashi.But it says Jupiter is in navamsha of Leo of a particular > > Rashi and Mars is in the Navamsha of Leo of another Rashi.Thus > > though these are together in Navamsha,We should not analyse this > > together.My understanding is See where is Jupiter in Rashi - > > reconfirm its strength in Navamsha by seeing in which sign it is > > there.Similarly for Mars repeat the procedure.These should be > > analysed individually.Integrated analysis must be done at Rashi > > level. > > Similarly house system in Divisional charts - is there any > > reference in classics.Because any amsha occurences like > > Gopura,Simhasana etc verifies just the occurence of the planets in > > the same rashi.Thus my view is, only the sign and its relation with > > the concerned planet has significance in divisional charts > > (nakshthras are automatically taken care). > > > > My views could wrong ,but i am not convinced ,thus kindly help me > > with your knowledge. > > > > Thanks > > Pradeep > > > > vedic astrology, "V.Partha sarathy" > > <partvinu5> wrote: > > > Dear Pradeep > > > > > > What exactly is your doubt, do you want to know the basis of > > > divisions, divisional charts, or what else? I can prove to be > some > > > help if you reframe your question. > > > regards > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > > > > > > > > > I was bit curious about the logic behind divisions within a > > > > > Rashi.Each rashi can be divided further into 9,10,24,60 etc > > > starting > > > > > from aries until pisces and then aries again.Have you come > > across > > > > > any reasons for this during ur experiments with astrology.I > > have > > > > > asked a qstn cpl of days back addressed to Narasimha Raoji.It > > is > > > > > difficult to find logic behind every usage and may not be > > needed > > > as > > > > > well.Still just out of curiousity.Becuase this could help us > > > > > understand the validity of aspects within divisional charts. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Dear Pradeep The way you are dividing the rasi chart is like cutting the bread with knife, if i could have used a better analogy. Sarvartha chintamani, and to some extent Phala deepika i guess have good information on divisional charts. Even saravali has some. You can explore those, but the available translations would again talk about cutting of the bread. Logic cuts and discriminates, but the understanding does not come from logic, logic is very useful in mathematics and science but not in shastras. The basis of divisionals has to be understood first. What is the deeper significance of divisions, is it just to divide the rasi chart in various parts, put planets in different rasis??, what exactly is the basis of divisions then. THere are four goals of a jeeva's life, Dharma , artha , kama , moksha. THis four fold path has to be understood. All the divisional charts are founded on this basic template. I have explained in other mails about the physical planes, the intelligence planes and the causal planes. All the planes are again formed on the basis of a few parameters. d-16 is the chart of luxuries and sukha, now what is the basis of d- 16. If you divide 16/12 rasis, you get a remainder of 4. Thus 4th house is the basis of shodasamsa. For d-24, 12th house is the basis, and for vimsamsa(d-20) 8th house is the basis. 4th house, 8th and 12th house are the foundations for moksha, they are the moksha sthanas. 3.2 degrees is a mathematical output of the division that we perform on a rasi by 9. Now why 9?, 9 shows our guru, our tradition, the parampara, the higher guidance, it also shows the fortune. So Divisional charts at physical planes such as navamsa show fortune and talents that are easily manfiested. But when you go to Nakshatramsa(d- 27) whose basis is also 9, you are not talking about talents alone, you are also talking about the finer psychological aspects of strenghts and weaknesses of a person, his motivations, and his depressions etc. more later regards partha vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep" <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > Dear Partha ji > > Thanks for igniting the thought process and guiding it through new > channels, as you always do:) > The statement regarding indications in the Rashi and the necessity > of its realization to avoid re occurences were also good. > I will search for the various Koshas mentioned.I can also relate or > coform with your logic.Because the more you divide the finer you > discover.And hence divisional charts shows finer elements. > > But i am not fully satisfied with the second part. > > My questions were seeking some explanation plus references from the > classics.(House concepts in divisional charts and aspects). > > Let us assume we are constructing a navamsha chart. > We have Rashi in hand.We also have a chart template with no entries > for making navamsha. > Let us go to Lagna in Rashi ,assume it is Sag.We divide Sag into nine > (starting with Aries,as fifth from Sag is Aries).If the degree of > lagna is 11 in Rashi, then lagna falls in the fourth navamsha > division - Cancer,. > We go to our template chart and mark - ASC in Cancer. > Similarly we go to second house in Rashi - We divide it into nine > and since Capricorn is a movable Rashi, navamsha starts from > Capricorn itself.If moon was placed at 2 degrees in Rashi,then moon > falls in the first (3.2 degree)division of Navamsha ie Capricorn > itself.We go to our template chart and mark MO in Capricorn.But now > the house in which moon is placed becomes '7' (as Capricorn is > seventh from Cancer).Similarly another planet which was at 29 > degrees in 2nd house goes to 3rd house in Virgo.Thus what we have > done is, just the scattering of planets in a template chart for the > easiness of understanding its finer placements.Only logical thing > what we have done is dividing each rashi into 9 and finding the > exact nava amsha placement of that planet.But i am unable to find > the logic behind following house system similar to Rashi.(I found > from cup of magic site the logic behind finding the first navamsha > in each sign) > > Hence my request to help me in finding a reference regarding this in > Classics.Similarly aspects are due to the angular placements of > planets.Even if we divide a rashi into 100 divisions the planets > position remains the same.Only thing what we are discovering new is > the finer details of its position(environment).For example when > looking from a higher level in human body we can say hand has got > nails.But when we divide or go closer we can say the nails are part > of the palm and further division says it is part of fingers.Thus we > are identifying the finer rashi properties within a Rashi(assuming > every rashi consists of tattwas of other rashis(Shiv Chadda jis > mail) and also related to nakshatra charana (Chandrashekhar jis > mail).But the position of the concerned planet w.r to other planets > remains the same irrespective of any number of divisions.Hence the > aspects has to remain the same as in Rashi.What do you think? > Otherwise we have to find a new logic behind this aspect. > > Kindly think over this and try to help me.If possible i will be > happy if you could give some reference regarding house system and > aspects in divisional charts. > > Best Regds > Pradeep > > > vedic astrology, "V.Partha sarathy" > <partvinu5> wrote: > > Dear Pradeep > > > > > > The divisional charts are the finer layers of the person's being. > > > > THere are five kosas of a human being according to Shankaracharya > > > > a) Annamaya Kosa(gross body) > > b) Pranamaya Kosa(vital body) > > c) Manomaya Kosa(mental body) > > d) Vignanamaya Kosa(the intelligence body) > > e) Anandamaya Kosa(the bliss sheath) > > > > The higher divisional charts show the impressions formed and > carried > > due to the various past life karmas. These impressions if not > > detected, would repeat again and again. A person divorcing his > wife > > in past life may get the problem again, if he does not burn away > the > > past karma. > > > > All the rules applicable to Rasi chart are applicable to > Divisional > > charts. > > > > Jupiter-moon yoga in a divisional chart is as valid as in rasi > chart. > > When you see a person, you are actually seeing the gross body. You > > are not looking at his aura, the four other bodies, the subtle > > impressions that he is carrying. Thus any yoga that is there in > > subtle bodies is bound to give its effects. I may not have Gaja > > Kesari yoga in present life time, infact i have a sakata yoga. But > i > > have Gaja kesari yoga in past life, whose rewards i am reaping in > > this life. > > more later > > regards > > partha > > > > > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep" > > <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > > > Dear Parthasarathy ji > > > > > > Thanks for lending your hand. > > > > > > I would be happy if you can tell me the basis for navamsha > > > division.Because in some Rashis the navamsha counting starts > from > > > itself,while for others it starts from 5,9. > > > > > > In classics is there any mention of aspects in divisional > > > charts.Because with my understanding so far - i feel if one sees > > > amshas as a total chart - it could be misleading.It can be drawn > as > > > a chart, for easier demonstration of planetary positions. > > > > > > Because if you see Jupiter and Mars together in Navamsha say in > > Leo - > > > they cannot be actually together,unless they are together in > > > Rashi.But it says Jupiter is in navamsha of Leo of a particular > > > Rashi and Mars is in the Navamsha of Leo of another Rashi.Thus > > > though these are together in Navamsha,We should not analyse this > > > together.My understanding is See where is Jupiter in Rashi - > > > reconfirm its strength in Navamsha by seeing in which sign it is > > > there.Similarly for Mars repeat the procedure.These should be > > > analysed individually.Integrated analysis must be done at Rashi > > > level. > > > Similarly house system in Divisional charts - is there any > > > reference in classics.Because any amsha occurences like > > > Gopura,Simhasana etc verifies just the occurence of the planets > in > > > the same rashi.Thus my view is, only the sign and its relation > with > > > the concerned planet has significance in divisional charts > > > (nakshthras are automatically taken care). > > > > > > My views could wrong ,but i am not convinced ,thus kindly help > me > > > with your knowledge. > > > > > > Thanks > > > Pradeep > > > > > > vedic astrology, "V.Partha sarathy" > > > <partvinu5> wrote: > > > > Dear Pradeep > > > > > > > > What exactly is your doubt, do you want to know the basis of > > > > divisions, divisional charts, or what else? I can prove to be > > some > > > > help if you reframe your question. > > > > regards > > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > > > > > > > > > > > I was bit curious about the logic behind divisions within a > > > > > > Rashi.Each rashi can be divided further into 9,10,24,60 > etc > > > > starting > > > > > > from aries until pisces and then aries again.Have you come > > > across > > > > > > any reasons for this during ur experiments with > astrology.I > > > have > > > > > > asked a qstn cpl of days back addressed to Narasimha > Raoji.It > > > is > > > > > > difficult to find logic behind every usage and may not be > > > needed > > > > as > > > > > > well.Still just out of curiousity.Becuase this could help > us > > > > > > understand the validity of aspects within divisional > charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Dear Partha, Beautiful piece of writing! Just a minor correction: > talents that are easily manfiested. But when you go to Nakshatramsa (d- > 27) whose basis is also 9, you are not talking about talents alone, > you are also talking about the finer psychological aspects of > strenghts and weaknesses of a person, his motivations, and his > depressions etc. The basis of D-27 is actually 3 and not 9. It is so because 27=2x12+3. The 3rd house is the seed of kaama trikona. It shows the beginning of desire. It shows one's drive or determination or motivation. Divisions 24-36 show the environment at the sub-conscious level. So D-27 shows the sub-conscious drive behind one's thinking and actions. This drive may or may not express at the mental and physical levels. But it always shows the first instincts. For example, I have Mercury and Jupiter in 12th in Gemini in my D- 27. My first instinct (D-27) towards giving (12th) is always benefic and pure (Jupiter and Mercury). I want to give freely anfd without any expectations. Even when it came to JHora full version, my first instinct was to give it freely. Thus, first instinct comes from sub- conscious self and its impulses (D-27). What is actually done is seen from rasi, navamsa and dasamsa etc. One of my friends whose chart I saw a while ago is extremely mild- mannered. She has no temper at all. She always acts very cool. Rasi and navamsa corraborate that. However, D-27 had Rahu in Capricorn (a tamasik sign) in the 3rd house. This shows an impulse of stubbornness and short temper. I asked her if her first instincts when she does not like something are always those of being very angry and stubbornly want to change. She was surprised and agreed that she was internally stubborn and felt a lot of anger in her first reaction at many times, but always controlled it. Her instincts do not usually manifest finally, but they are there. D-27 shows them. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Dear Narasimha Thank you for the correction. yes 27/12 remainder is 3 and shows 3 as the basis of nakshatramsa. I was probably thinking too fast, and forgot fundmental mathematics. Like you i have jupiter in 12th house in d-27. I have infact venus and jupiter in 12th house in d-27. I have exalted mercury and saturn in virgo in third house. So probably that is the reason for lapse of concentration some times. WHen i was playing chess at universities i used to play very fast just like Vishy Anand, but i used to make blunders at the end. It cost me the title many times. Had i not blundered i would never have got into astrology, and would have played chess all my life!! love partha vedic astrology, "pvr108" <pvr@c...> wrote: > Dear Partha, > > Beautiful piece of writing! > > Just a minor correction: > > > talents that are easily manfiested. But when you go to Nakshatramsa > (d- > > 27) whose basis is also 9, you are not talking about talents > alone, > > you are also talking about the finer psychological aspects of > > strenghts and weaknesses of a person, his motivations, and his > > depressions etc. > > The basis of D-27 is actually 3 and not 9. It is so because > 27=2x12+3. > > The 3rd house is the seed of kaama trikona. It shows the beginning > of desire. It shows one's drive or determination or motivation. > > Divisions 24-36 show the environment at the sub-conscious level. So > D-27 shows the sub-conscious drive behind one's thinking and > actions. This drive may or may not express at the mental and > physical levels. But it always shows the first instincts. > > For example, I have Mercury and Jupiter in 12th in Gemini in my D- > 27. My first instinct (D-27) towards giving (12th) is always benefic > and pure (Jupiter and Mercury). I want to give freely anfd without > any expectations. Even when it came to JHora full version, my first > instinct was to give it freely. Thus, first instinct comes from sub- > conscious self and its impulses (D-27). What is actually done is > seen from rasi, navamsa and dasamsa etc. > > One of my friends whose chart I saw a while ago is extremely mild- > mannered. She has no temper at all. She always acts very cool. Rasi > and navamsa corraborate that. However, D-27 had Rahu in Capricorn (a > tamasik sign) in the 3rd house. This shows an impulse of > stubbornness and short temper. I asked her if her first instincts > when she does not like something are always those of being very > angry and stubbornly want to change. She was surprised and agreed > that she was internally stubborn and felt a lot of anger in her > first reaction at many times, but always controlled it. Her > instincts do not usually manifest finally, but they are there. D-27 > shows them. > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 Dear Partha ji Thanks for your patience in answering my questions. But somehow i feel there is a misunderstanding.May be this is because of my inability to communicate what i am looking for.Because the answers from you were not addressing the specific points regarding my doubt. As you have mentioned i too was eager to know the significance of divisions and not just the division into 9 (similar to knife and bread).You can check the mails which i have written to Chandrashekhar ji ,Narasimha ji and Shiv Chadha ji.Except Narasimha ji other two had helped me.Chandrashekhar ji explained about the nakshthra charana lord and Shiv Chadha ji explained about the philosophy of tattwas.Also Chandrashekharji mentioned that, this is all he could help and other learned members could help more. In the mean time you have offered your share of knowledge. I was purely concerned about the aspects and house system. Regarding the importance of dharma or 9th house when referring to navamsha or similar philosophies while dealing with other divisions are all fine with me. Questioning that with logic would be wrong. Though i have science & tech background , i have always beleived one shouldnt use scientific logic to understand the philosophy of astrology.I have always reinforced this point many times in my mails to this list.I still hold that view.Thus too many techniques and numerous lagnas might not help. But there are sub sections(related to fundemental calculations) in astrology which needs this logic.I beleive thats why we have Gola,Hora ,Samhita etc to distinguish one from the other. Thus when you are speaking about the philosophy of astrology,one should rise above the scientific logic to another plane. For example when one's father teaches about good values,he can never define it fully.Because values are a set of loose & flexible, relative - principles or guidelines.But when he is speaking about a rule - it can be very clear and straight. Similarly in astrology,If we are speaking about the effects of jupiterian aspect -You have to understand the philosophy behind Jupiter.This needs so much reading,understanding and intuition.Here one shouldn't use mathematical analysis.Then he will fail.Similarly the significance of dharma related to Navamsha.We cannot say in a paragraph or not even in 100 pages the effect of jupiters aspect.Because this is subjective,relative and dynamic. Now the logic behind the aspect of Jupiter.Which all houses it can aspect is a rule.This is based on the angular placement and 'field of aspectability' surrounding jupiter.I can recollect the explanation given by Chandrashekhar ji regarding special aspects of MARS,JUPITER & SATURN ,by virtue of their roles in planetary cabinet.Moreover Mars is the immediate planet outside Earth's orbit.Jupiter and Saturn are distant and large planets and hence can have multiple 'drishties' on earth.Thus the sages understood the sidhanthas of Gola as well as role in planetary cabinets for explaining special aspects and formulated rules.Once these rules are formulated this remains a constant.Jupiter will always aspect 5,7 and 9.And this 5,7 and 9 are based on the planets position.As this position is not changing with divisions its aspects still remain the same. Thus if we apply aspects in divisional charts - then it is similar to what Chandrashekhar ji has told -using different systems to manufacture nut and bolt.In divisional chart different houses are not representing actual angular positions(they are only representing the nature or environment surrounding a planet w.r to the philosophy of various divisions) and hence 5th,7th,9th aspects are not corresponding to its real aspects. Similarly for constructing navamsha chart we need mathematical logic and rules specified by sages.But for understanding it we need to know the philosophy.Thus if we can distinguish where to use techniques and where not then there is no confusion. I am not trying to force my logic upon you.Because you have far better experience and knowledge than me,moreover each individuals logic has got its own share of respect.I am trying to distinguish and explain the gola and philosophy - which needs to be treated as the way it is supposed to be- as per my understanding.This can be wrong.But i am not satisfied. My point is we have understood the rule behind aspects in Rashi but i have not understood the rule behind aspects in divisonal charts.As per my logic one should use the same yardstick(the rule) for Rashi & Divisions for measuring aspects.Else it is a discrepancy. This view holds true only until i understand the logic behind aspects in divisions and hence the request for help from learned members. Thanks for the 16/12 reminder 4,example.Sounds Logical.But we are not using this reminder formula for every divisional chart? Thanks a lot again.If possible, try to think about what i am saying when you are free and just weigh the pros and cons. Love Pradeep vedic astrology, "V.Partha sarathy" <partvinu5> wrote: > Dear Pradeep > > The way you are dividing the rasi chart is like cutting the bread > with knife, if i could have used a better analogy. > > Sarvartha chintamani, and to some extent Phala deepika i guess have > good information on divisional charts. Even saravali has some. > > You can explore those, but the available translations would again > talk about cutting of the bread. > > Logic cuts and discriminates, but the understanding does not come > from logic, logic is very useful in mathematics and science but not > in shastras. > > The basis of divisionals has to be understood first. What is the > deeper significance of divisions, is it just to divide the rasi chart > in various parts, put planets in different rasis??, what exactly is > the basis of divisions then. > > THere are four goals of a jeeva's life, Dharma , artha , kama , > moksha. > THis four fold path has to be understood. All the divisional charts > are founded on this basic template. > > I have explained in other mails about the physical planes, the > intelligence planes and the causal planes. All the planes are again > formed on the basis of a few parameters. > > d-16 is the chart of luxuries and sukha, now what is the basis of d- > 16. If you divide 16/12 rasis, you get a remainder of 4. Thus 4th > house is the basis of shodasamsa. > For d-24, 12th house is the basis, and for vimsamsa(d-20) 8th house > is the basis. > > 4th house, 8th and 12th house are the foundations for moksha, they > are the moksha sthanas. > > 3.2 degrees is a mathematical output of the division that we perform > on a rasi by 9. Now why 9?, 9 shows our guru, our tradition, the > parampara, the higher guidance, it also shows the fortune. So > Divisional charts at physical planes such as navamsa show fortune and > talents that are easily manfiested. But when you go to Nakshatramsa (d- > 27) whose basis is also 9, you are not talking about talents alone, > you are also talking about the finer psychological aspects of > strenghts and weaknesses of a person, his motivations, and his > depressions etc. > > more later > regards > partha > > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep" > <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > > Dear Partha ji > > > > Thanks for igniting the thought process and guiding it through new > > channels, as you always do:) > > The statement regarding indications in the Rashi and the necessity > > of its realization to avoid re occurences were also good. > > I will search for the various Koshas mentioned.I can also relate or > > coform with your logic.Because the more you divide the finer you > > discover.And hence divisional charts shows finer elements. > > > > But i am not fully satisfied with the second part. > > > > My questions were seeking some explanation plus references from the > > classics.(House concepts in divisional charts and aspects). > > > > Let us assume we are constructing a navamsha chart. > > We have Rashi in hand.We also have a chart template with no entries > > for making navamsha. > > Let us go to Lagna in Rashi ,assume it is Sag.We divide Sag into > nine > > (starting with Aries,as fifth from Sag is Aries).If the degree of > > lagna is 11 in Rashi, then lagna falls in the fourth navamsha > > division - Cancer,. > > We go to our template chart and mark - ASC in Cancer. > > Similarly we go to second house in Rashi - We divide it into nine > > and since Capricorn is a movable Rashi, navamsha starts from > > Capricorn itself.If moon was placed at 2 degrees in Rashi,then moon > > falls in the first (3.2 degree)division of Navamsha ie Capricorn > > itself.We go to our template chart and mark MO in Capricorn.But now > > the house in which moon is placed becomes '7' (as Capricorn is > > seventh from Cancer).Similarly another planet which was at 29 > > degrees in 2nd house goes to 3rd house in Virgo.Thus what we have > > done is, just the scattering of planets in a template chart for the > > easiness of understanding its finer placements.Only logical thing > > what we have done is dividing each rashi into 9 and finding the > > exact nava amsha placement of that planet.But i am unable to find > > the logic behind following house system similar to Rashi.(I found > > from cup of magic site the logic behind finding the first navamsha > > in each sign) > > > > Hence my request to help me in finding a reference regarding this > in > > Classics.Similarly aspects are due to the angular placements of > > planets.Even if we divide a rashi into 100 divisions the planets > > position remains the same.Only thing what we are discovering new is > > the finer details of its position(environment).For example when > > looking from a higher level in human body we can say hand has got > > nails.But when we divide or go closer we can say the nails are part > > of the palm and further division says it is part of fingers.Thus we > > are identifying the finer rashi properties within a Rashi (assuming > > every rashi consists of tattwas of other rashis(Shiv Chadda jis > > mail) and also related to nakshatra charana (Chandrashekhar jis > > mail).But the position of the concerned planet w.r to other planets > > remains the same irrespective of any number of divisions.Hence the > > aspects has to remain the same as in Rashi.What do you think? > > Otherwise we have to find a new logic behind this aspect. > > > > Kindly think over this and try to help me.If possible i will be > > happy if you could give some reference regarding house system and > > aspects in divisional charts. > > > > Best Regds > > Pradeep > > > > > > vedic astrology, "V.Partha sarathy" > > <partvinu5> wrote: > > > Dear Pradeep > > > > > > > > > The divisional charts are the finer layers of the person's being. > > > > > > THere are five kosas of a human being according to Shankaracharya > > > > > > a) Annamaya Kosa(gross body) > > > b) Pranamaya Kosa(vital body) > > > c) Manomaya Kosa(mental body) > > > d) Vignanamaya Kosa(the intelligence body) > > > e) Anandamaya Kosa(the bliss sheath) > > > > > > The higher divisional charts show the impressions formed and > > carried > > > due to the various past life karmas. These impressions if not > > > detected, would repeat again and again. A person divorcing his > > wife > > > in past life may get the problem again, if he does not burn away > > the > > > past karma. > > > > > > All the rules applicable to Rasi chart are applicable to > > Divisional > > > charts. > > > > > > Jupiter-moon yoga in a divisional chart is as valid as in rasi > > chart. > > > When you see a person, you are actually seeing the gross body. > You > > > are not looking at his aura, the four other bodies, the subtle > > > impressions that he is carrying. Thus any yoga that is there in > > > subtle bodies is bound to give its effects. I may not have Gaja > > > Kesari yoga in present life time, infact i have a sakata yoga. > But > > i > > > have Gaja kesari yoga in past life, whose rewards i am reaping in > > > this life. > > > more later > > > regards > > > partha > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep" > > > <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > > > > Dear Parthasarathy ji > > > > > > > > Thanks for lending your hand. > > > > > > > > I would be happy if you can tell me the basis for navamsha > > > > division.Because in some Rashis the navamsha counting starts > > from > > > > itself,while for others it starts from 5,9. > > > > > > > > In classics is there any mention of aspects in divisional > > > > charts.Because with my understanding so far - i feel if one > sees > > > > amshas as a total chart - it could be misleading.It can be > drawn > > as > > > > a chart, for easier demonstration of planetary positions. > > > > > > > > Because if you see Jupiter and Mars together in Navamsha say in > > > Leo - > > > > they cannot be actually together,unless they are together in > > > > Rashi.But it says Jupiter is in navamsha of Leo of a particular > > > > Rashi and Mars is in the Navamsha of Leo of another Rashi.Thus > > > > though these are together in Navamsha,We should not analyse > this > > > > together.My understanding is See where is Jupiter in Rashi - > > > > reconfirm its strength in Navamsha by seeing in which sign it > is > > > > there.Similarly for Mars repeat the procedure.These should be > > > > analysed individually.Integrated analysis must be done at Rashi > > > > level. > > > > Similarly house system in Divisional charts - is there any > > > > reference in classics.Because any amsha occurences like > > > > Gopura,Simhasana etc verifies just the occurence of the planets > > in > > > > the same rashi.Thus my view is, only the sign and its relation > > with > > > > the concerned planet has significance in divisional charts > > > > (nakshthras are automatically taken care). > > > > > > > > My views could wrong ,but i am not convinced ,thus kindly help > > me > > > > with your knowledge. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "V.Partha sarathy" > > > > <partvinu5> wrote: > > > > > Dear Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > What exactly is your doubt, do you want to know the basis of > > > > > divisions, divisional charts, or what else? I can prove to be > > > some > > > > > help if you reframe your question. > > > > > regards > > > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was bit curious about the logic behind divisions within > a > > > > > > > Rashi.Each rashi can be divided further into 9,10,24,60 > > etc > > > > > starting > > > > > > > from aries until pisces and then aries again.Have you > come > > > > across > > > > > > > any reasons for this during ur experiments with > > astrology.I > > > > have > > > > > > > asked a qstn cpl of days back addressed to Narasimha > > Raoji.It > > > > is > > > > > > > difficult to find logic behind every usage and may not be > > > > needed > > > > > as > > > > > > > well.Still just out of curiousity.Becuase this could help > > us > > > > > > > understand the validity of aspects within divisional > > charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 Pradeep, I hope it is ok for me to interject! There are two schools of thought. One school does not to the use of aspects in varga charts. The other one does. Well known names in Jyotisha have d to either one, based on their believes. Ultimately only the astrological dictums on which an astrologer bases her/his belief would aid her/him. As far as a scientific explanation for the use of aspects (drishti) goes, the one which I have used for basing my belief on it is as follows: Let me use the Navamsha chart for example. Your understanding is that each house in the Rasi chart is divided into nine parts and these divisions are assigned houses starting from Aries, Capricorn, Libra and Cancer in the Navamsa chart. Let us look at it another way. The entire zodiac is divided initially into nine divisions. And, if we use the principle "microcosm is always a replica of the macrocosm in the universe", each of these nine divisions can be expected to behave like the rasi chart. Thus, we can divide each one into 12 houses, resembling the rasi chart. These 9 replicas of the Rasi chart are then superimposed on one another. Now you are looking at 9 superimposed charts in the Navamsa chart.The aspects of planets within each of these nine charts can be expected to be similar to the Rasi chart. And, then you may ask how we can extrapolate the aspect in one of the charts to the other eight charts. In my view a planetary aspect is nothing but an interplay of energies between two points in the universe and planets. And, any area that vibrates in the same frequency gets affected by a similar vibration. However, we cannot ignore the positions of these planets and the interplay of energies at the Rasi (Gross/Macrocosm) level, while analysing a chart. My explanation may be simplistic and/or not very "scientific", but would satisfy inquisitive minds which vibrate in the same frequncy as mine. Loving regards, Arun "Anantovai Vedah" vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep" <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > Dear Partha ji > > Thanks for your patience in answering my questions. > > But somehow i feel there is a misunderstanding.May be this is because > of my inability to communicate what i am looking for.Because the > answers from you were not addressing the specific points regarding my > doubt. > > As you have mentioned i too was eager to know the significance of > divisions and not just the division into 9 (similar to knife and > bread).You can check the mails which i have written to Chandrashekhar > ji ,Narasimha ji and Shiv Chadha ji.Except Narasimha ji other two had > helped me.Chandrashekhar ji explained about the nakshthra charana > lord and Shiv Chadha ji explained about the philosophy of > tattwas.Also Chandrashekharji mentioned that, this is all he could > help and other learned members could help more. In the mean time you > have offered your share of knowledge. > > I was purely concerned about the aspects and house system. > > Regarding the importance of dharma or 9th house when referring to > navamsha or similar philosophies while dealing with other divisions > are all fine with me. Questioning that with logic would be wrong. > > Though i have science & tech background , i have always beleived one > shouldnt use scientific logic to understand the philosophy of > astrology.I have always reinforced this point many times in my mails > to this list.I still hold that view.Thus too many techniques and > numerous lagnas might not help. > > But there are sub sections(related to fundemental calculations) in > astrology which needs this logic.I beleive thats why we have > Gola,Hora ,Samhita etc to distinguish one from the other. > > Thus when you are speaking about the philosophy of astrology,one > should rise above the scientific logic to another plane. > For example when one's father teaches about good values,he can never > define it fully.Because values are a set of loose & flexible, > relative - principles or guidelines.But when he is speaking about a > rule - it can be very clear and straight. > > Similarly in astrology,If we are speaking about the effects of > jupiterian aspect -You have to understand the philosophy behind > Jupiter.This needs so much reading,understanding and intuition.Here > one shouldn't use mathematical analysis.Then he will fail.Similarly > the significance of dharma related to Navamsha.We cannot say in a > paragraph or not even in 100 pages the effect of jupiters > aspect.Because this is subjective,relative and dynamic. > > Now the logic behind the aspect of Jupiter.Which all houses it can > aspect is a rule.This is based on the angular placement and 'field of > aspectability' surrounding jupiter.I can recollect the explanation > given by Chandrashekhar ji regarding special aspects of MARS,JUPITER > & SATURN ,by virtue of their roles in planetary cabinet.Moreover > Mars is the immediate planet outside Earth's orbit.Jupiter and Saturn > are distant and large planets and hence can have multiple 'drishties' > on earth.Thus the sages understood the sidhanthas of Gola as well as > role in planetary cabinets for explaining special aspects and > formulated rules.Once these rules are formulated this remains a > constant.Jupiter will always aspect 5,7 and 9.And this 5,7 and 9 are > based on the planets position.As this position is not changing with > divisions its aspects still remain the same. > > Thus if we apply aspects in divisional charts - then it is similar > to what Chandrashekhar ji has told -using different systems to > manufacture nut and bolt.In divisional chart different houses are not > representing actual angular positions(they are only representing the > nature or environment surrounding a planet w.r to the philosophy of > various divisions) and hence 5th,7th,9th aspects are not > corresponding to its real aspects. > > Similarly for constructing navamsha chart we need mathematical logic > and rules specified by sages.But for understanding it we need to know > the philosophy.Thus if we can distinguish where to use techniques and > where not then there is no confusion. > > I am not trying to force my logic upon you.Because you have far > better experience and knowledge than me,moreover each individuals > logic has got its own share of respect.I am trying to distinguish and > explain the gola and philosophy - which needs to be treated as the > way it is supposed to be- as per my understanding.This can be > wrong.But i am not satisfied. > > My point is we have understood the rule behind aspects in Rashi but i > have not understood the rule behind aspects in divisonal charts.As > per my logic one should use the same yardstick(the rule) for Rashi & > Divisions for measuring aspects.Else it is a discrepancy. > This view holds true only until i understand the logic behind aspects > in divisions and hence the request for help from learned members. > > Thanks for the 16/12 reminder 4,example.Sounds Logical.But we are not > using this reminder formula for every divisional chart? > > Thanks a lot again.If possible, try to think about what i am saying > when you are free and just weigh the pros and cons. > > Love > Pradeep > > > > vedic astrology, "V.Partha sarathy" > <partvinu5> wrote: > > Dear Pradeep > > > > The way you are dividing the rasi chart is like cutting the bread > > with knife, if i could have used a better analogy. > > > > Sarvartha chintamani, and to some extent Phala deepika i guess have > > good information on divisional charts. Even saravali has some. > > > > You can explore those, but the available translations would again > > talk about cutting of the bread. > > > > Logic cuts and discriminates, but the understanding does not come > > from logic, logic is very useful in mathematics and science but not > > in shastras. > > > > The basis of divisionals has to be understood first. What is the > > deeper significance of divisions, is it just to divide the rasi > chart > > in various parts, put planets in different rasis??, what exactly is > > the basis of divisions then. > > > > THere are four goals of a jeeva's life, Dharma , artha , kama , > > moksha. > > THis four fold path has to be understood. All the divisional charts > > are founded on this basic template. > > > > I have explained in other mails about the physical planes, the > > intelligence planes and the causal planes. All the planes are again > > formed on the basis of a few parameters. > > > > d-16 is the chart of luxuries and sukha, now what is the basis of d- > > 16. If you divide 16/12 rasis, you get a remainder of 4. Thus 4th > > house is the basis of shodasamsa. > > For d-24, 12th house is the basis, and for vimsamsa(d-20) 8th house > > is the basis. > > > > 4th house, 8th and 12th house are the foundations for moksha, they > > are the moksha sthanas. > > > > 3.2 degrees is a mathematical output of the division that we > perform > > on a rasi by 9. Now why 9?, 9 shows our guru, our tradition, the > > parampara, the higher guidance, it also shows the fortune. So > > Divisional charts at physical planes such as navamsa show fortune > and > > talents that are easily manfiested. But when you go to Nakshatramsa > (d- > > 27) whose basis is also 9, you are not talking about talents alone, > > you are also talking about the finer psychological aspects of > > strenghts and weaknesses of a person, his motivations, and his > > depressions etc. > > > > more later > > regards > > partha > > > > > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep" > > <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > > > Dear Partha ji > > > > > > Thanks for igniting the thought process and guiding it through > new > > > channels, as you always do:) > > > The statement regarding indications in the Rashi and the > necessity > > > of its realization to avoid re occurences were also good. > > > I will search for the various Koshas mentioned.I can also relate > or > > > coform with your logic.Because the more you divide the finer you > > > discover.And hence divisional charts shows finer elements. > > > > > > But i am not fully satisfied with the second part. > > > > > > My questions were seeking some explanation plus references from > the > > > classics.(House concepts in divisional charts and aspects). > > > > > > Let us assume we are constructing a navamsha chart. > > > We have Rashi in hand.We also have a chart template with no > entries > > > for making navamsha. > > > Let us go to Lagna in Rashi ,assume it is Sag.We divide Sag into > > nine > > > (starting with Aries,as fifth from Sag is Aries).If the degree of > > > lagna is 11 in Rashi, then lagna falls in the fourth navamsha > > > division - Cancer,. > > > We go to our template chart and mark - ASC in Cancer. > > > Similarly we go to second house in Rashi - We divide it into nine > > > and since Capricorn is a movable Rashi, navamsha starts from > > > Capricorn itself.If moon was placed at 2 degrees in Rashi,then > moon > > > falls in the first (3.2 degree)division of Navamsha ie Capricorn > > > itself.We go to our template chart and mark MO in Capricorn.But > now > > > the house in which moon is placed becomes '7' (as Capricorn is > > > seventh from Cancer).Similarly another planet which was at 29 > > > degrees in 2nd house goes to 3rd house in Virgo.Thus what we have > > > done is, just the scattering of planets in a template chart for > the > > > easiness of understanding its finer placements.Only logical thing > > > what we have done is dividing each rashi into 9 and finding the > > > exact nava amsha placement of that planet.But i am unable to find > > > the logic behind following house system similar to Rashi.(I found > > > from cup of magic site the logic behind finding the first > navamsha > > > in each sign) > > > > > > Hence my request to help me in finding a reference regarding this > > in > > > Classics.Similarly aspects are due to the angular placements of > > > planets.Even if we divide a rashi into 100 divisions the planets > > > position remains the same.Only thing what we are discovering new > is > > > the finer details of its position(environment).For example when > > > looking from a higher level in human body we can say hand has got > > > nails.But when we divide or go closer we can say the nails are > part > > > of the palm and further division says it is part of fingers.Thus > we > > > are identifying the finer rashi properties within a Rashi > (assuming > > > every rashi consists of tattwas of other rashis(Shiv Chadda jis > > > mail) and also related to nakshatra charana (Chandrashekhar jis > > > mail).But the position of the concerned planet w.r to other > planets > > > remains the same irrespective of any number of divisions.Hence > the > > > aspects has to remain the same as in Rashi.What do you think? > > > Otherwise we have to find a new logic behind this aspect. > > > > > > Kindly think over this and try to help me.If possible i will be > > > happy if you could give some reference regarding house system and > > > aspects in divisional charts. > > > > > > Best Regds > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "V.Partha sarathy" > > > <partvinu5> wrote: > > > > Dear Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > The divisional charts are the finer layers of the person's > being. > > > > > > > > THere are five kosas of a human being according to > Shankaracharya > > > > > > > > a) Annamaya Kosa(gross body) > > > > b) Pranamaya Kosa(vital body) > > > > c) Manomaya Kosa(mental body) > > > > d) Vignanamaya Kosa(the intelligence body) > > > > e) Anandamaya Kosa(the bliss sheath) > > > > > > > > The higher divisional charts show the impressions formed and > > > carried > > > > due to the various past life karmas. These impressions if not > > > > detected, would repeat again and again. A person divorcing his > > > wife > > > > in past life may get the problem again, if he does not burn > away > > > the > > > > past karma. > > > > > > > > All the rules applicable to Rasi chart are applicable to > > > Divisional > > > > charts. > > > > > > > > Jupiter-moon yoga in a divisional chart is as valid as in rasi > > > chart. > > > > When you see a person, you are actually seeing the gross body. > > You > > > > are not looking at his aura, the four other bodies, the subtle > > > > impressions that he is carrying. Thus any yoga that is there in > > > > subtle bodies is bound to give its effects. I may not have Gaja > > > > Kesari yoga in present life time, infact i have a sakata yoga. > > But > > > i > > > > have Gaja kesari yoga in past life, whose rewards i am reaping > in > > > > this life. > > > > more later > > > > regards > > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep" > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > > > > > Dear Parthasarathy ji > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for lending your hand. > > > > > > > > > > I would be happy if you can tell me the basis for navamsha > > > > > division.Because in some Rashis the navamsha counting starts > > > from > > > > > itself,while for others it starts from 5,9. > > > > > > > > > > In classics is there any mention of aspects in divisional > > > > > charts.Because with my understanding so far - i feel if one > > sees > > > > > amshas as a total chart - it could be misleading.It can be > > drawn > > > as > > > > > a chart, for easier demonstration of planetary positions. > > > > > > > > > > Because if you see Jupiter and Mars together in Navamsha say > in > > > > Leo - > > > > > they cannot be actually together,unless they are together in > > > > > Rashi.But it says Jupiter is in navamsha of Leo of a > particular > > > > > Rashi and Mars is in the Navamsha of Leo of another > Rashi.Thus > > > > > though these are together in Navamsha,We should not analyse > > this > > > > > together.My understanding is See where is Jupiter in Rashi - > > > > > reconfirm its strength in Navamsha by seeing in which sign it > > is > > > > > there.Similarly for Mars repeat the procedure.These should be > > > > > analysed individually.Integrated analysis must be done at > Rashi > > > > > level. > > > > > Similarly house system in Divisional charts - is there any > > > > > reference in classics.Because any amsha occurences like > > > > > Gopura,Simhasana etc verifies just the occurence of the > planets > > > in > > > > > the same rashi.Thus my view is, only the sign and its > relation > > > with > > > > > the concerned planet has significance in divisional charts > > > > > (nakshthras are automatically taken care). > > > > > > > > > > My views could wrong ,but i am not convinced ,thus kindly > help > > > me > > > > > with your knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "V.Partha sarathy" > > > > > <partvinu5> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > What exactly is your doubt, do you want to know the basis > of > > > > > > divisions, divisional charts, or what else? I can prove to > be > > > > some > > > > > > help if you reframe your question. > > > > > > regards > > > > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was bit curious about the logic behind divisions > within > > a > > > > > > > > Rashi.Each rashi can be divided further into 9,10,24,60 > > > etc > > > > > > starting > > > > > > > > from aries until pisces and then aries again.Have you > > come > > > > > across > > > > > > > > any reasons for this during ur experiments with > > > astrology.I > > > > > have > > > > > > > > asked a qstn cpl of days back addressed to Narasimha > > > Raoji.It > > > > > is > > > > > > > > difficult to find logic behind every usage and may not > be > > > > > needed > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > well.Still just out of curiousity.Becuase this could > help > > > us > > > > > > > > understand the validity of aspects within divisional > > > charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 Dear Arun ji Thanks for the mail. Your views are trying to point out how things can be looked at from different angles. Now regarding the vibrational energies of similar frequencies - Yes ofcourse each planet will have influence on every other.But significant impact may be when they are in such a position to aspect the seventh from it or special aspecting positions in the case of 3 planets. Thus when we say aspect in the sense used in astrology it may be the significant influencing positions.This is my understanding.Thanks for the input. regds Pradeep -- In vedic astrology, "arunuthayan" <arunuthayan> wrote: > Pradeep, > > I hope it is ok for me to interject! > > There are two schools of thought. One school does not to > the use of aspects in varga charts. The other one does. Well known > names in Jyotisha have d to either one, based on their > believes. Ultimately only the astrological dictums on which an > astrologer bases her/his belief would aid her/him. > > As far as a scientific explanation for the use of aspects (drishti) > goes, the one which I have used for basing my belief on it is as > follows: > > Let me use the Navamsha chart for example. Your understanding is that > each house in the Rasi chart is divided into nine parts and these > divisions are assigned houses starting from Aries, Capricorn, Libra > and Cancer in the Navamsa chart. Let us look at it another way. The > entire zodiac is divided initially into nine divisions. And, if we > use the principle "microcosm is always a replica of the macrocosm in > the universe", each of these nine divisions can be expected to behave > like the rasi chart. Thus, we can divide each one into 12 houses, > resembling the rasi chart. These 9 replicas of the Rasi chart are > then superimposed on one another. Now you are looking at 9 > superimposed charts in the Navamsa chart.The aspects of planets > within each of these nine charts can be expected to be similar to the > Rasi chart. And, then you may ask how we can extrapolate the aspect > in one of the charts to the other eight charts. In my view a > planetary aspect is nothing but an interplay of energies between two > points in the universe and planets. And, any area that vibrates in > the same frequency gets affected by a similar vibration. > > However, we cannot ignore the positions of these planets and the > interplay of energies at the Rasi (Gross/Macrocosm) level, while > analysing a chart. > > My explanation may be simplistic and/or not very "scientific", but > would satisfy inquisitive minds which vibrate in the same frequncy as > mine. > > Loving regards, > Arun > > "Anantovai Vedah" > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep" > <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > > Dear Partha ji > > > > Thanks for your patience in answering my questions. > > > > But somehow i feel there is a misunderstanding.May be this is > because > > of my inability to communicate what i am looking for.Because the > > answers from you were not addressing the specific points regarding > my > > doubt. > > > > As you have mentioned i too was eager to know the significance of > > divisions and not just the division into 9 (similar to knife and > > bread).You can check the mails which i have written to > Chandrashekhar > > ji ,Narasimha ji and Shiv Chadha ji.Except Narasimha ji other two > had > > helped me.Chandrashekhar ji explained about the nakshthra charana > > lord and Shiv Chadha ji explained about the philosophy of > > tattwas.Also Chandrashekharji mentioned that, this is all he could > > help and other learned members could help more. In the mean time > you > > have offered your share of knowledge. > > > > I was purely concerned about the aspects and house system. > > > > Regarding the importance of dharma or 9th house when referring to > > navamsha or similar philosophies while dealing with other divisions > > are all fine with me. Questioning that with logic would be wrong. > > > > Though i have science & tech background , i have always beleived > one > > shouldnt use scientific logic to understand the philosophy of > > astrology.I have always reinforced this point many times in my > mails > > to this list.I still hold that view.Thus too many techniques and > > numerous lagnas might not help. > > > > But there are sub sections(related to fundemental calculations) in > > astrology which needs this logic.I beleive thats why we have > > Gola,Hora ,Samhita etc to distinguish one from the other. > > > > Thus when you are speaking about the philosophy of astrology,one > > should rise above the scientific logic to another plane. > > For example when one's father teaches about good values,he can > never > > define it fully.Because values are a set of loose & flexible, > > relative - principles or guidelines.But when he is speaking about a > > rule - it can be very clear and straight. > > > > Similarly in astrology,If we are speaking about the effects of > > jupiterian aspect -You have to understand the philosophy behind > > Jupiter.This needs so much reading,understanding and intuition.Here > > one shouldn't use mathematical analysis.Then he will fail.Similarly > > the significance of dharma related to Navamsha.We cannot say in a > > paragraph or not even in 100 pages the effect of jupiters > > aspect.Because this is subjective,relative and dynamic. > > > > Now the logic behind the aspect of Jupiter.Which all houses it can > > aspect is a rule.This is based on the angular placement and 'field > of > > aspectability' surrounding jupiter.I can recollect the explanation > > given by Chandrashekhar ji regarding special aspects of > MARS,JUPITER > > & SATURN ,by virtue of their roles in planetary cabinet.Moreover > > Mars is the immediate planet outside Earth's orbit.Jupiter and > Saturn > > are distant and large planets and hence can have > multiple 'drishties' > > on earth.Thus the sages understood the sidhanthas of Gola as well > as > > role in planetary cabinets for explaining special aspects and > > formulated rules.Once these rules are formulated this remains a > > constant.Jupiter will always aspect 5,7 and 9.And this 5,7 and 9 > are > > based on the planets position.As this position is not changing with > > divisions its aspects still remain the same. > > > > Thus if we apply aspects in divisional charts - then it is similar > > to what Chandrashekhar ji has told -using different systems to > > manufacture nut and bolt.In divisional chart different houses are > not > > representing actual angular positions(they are only representing > the > > nature or environment surrounding a planet w.r to the philosophy of > > various divisions) and hence 5th,7th,9th aspects are not > > corresponding to its real aspects. > > > > Similarly for constructing navamsha chart we need mathematical > logic > > and rules specified by sages.But for understanding it we need to > know > > the philosophy.Thus if we can distinguish where to use techniques > and > > where not then there is no confusion. > > > > I am not trying to force my logic upon you.Because you have far > > better experience and knowledge than me,moreover each individuals > > logic has got its own share of respect.I am trying to distinguish > and > > explain the gola and philosophy - which needs to be treated as the > > way it is supposed to be- as per my understanding.This can be > > wrong.But i am not satisfied. > > > > My point is we have understood the rule behind aspects in Rashi but > i > > have not understood the rule behind aspects in divisonal charts.As > > per my logic one should use the same yardstick(the rule) for Rashi > & > > Divisions for measuring aspects.Else it is a discrepancy. > > This view holds true only until i understand the logic behind > aspects > > in divisions and hence the request for help from learned members. > > > > Thanks for the 16/12 reminder 4,example.Sounds Logical.But we are > not > > using this reminder formula for every divisional chart? > > > > Thanks a lot again.If possible, try to think about what i am saying > > when you are free and just weigh the pros and cons. > > > > Love > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "V.Partha sarathy" > > <partvinu5> wrote: > > > Dear Pradeep > > > > > > The way you are dividing the rasi chart is like cutting the bread > > > with knife, if i could have used a better analogy. > > > > > > Sarvartha chintamani, and to some extent Phala deepika i guess > have > > > good information on divisional charts. Even saravali has some. > > > > > > You can explore those, but the available translations would again > > > talk about cutting of the bread. > > > > > > Logic cuts and discriminates, but the understanding does not come > > > from logic, logic is very useful in mathematics and science but > not > > > in shastras. > > > > > > The basis of divisionals has to be understood first. What is the > > > deeper significance of divisions, is it just to divide the rasi > > chart > > > in various parts, put planets in different rasis??, what exactly > is > > > the basis of divisions then. > > > > > > THere are four goals of a jeeva's life, Dharma , artha , kama , > > > moksha. > > > THis four fold path has to be understood. All the divisional > charts > > > are founded on this basic template. > > > > > > I have explained in other mails about the physical planes, the > > > intelligence planes and the causal planes. All the planes are > again > > > formed on the basis of a few parameters. > > > > > > d-16 is the chart of luxuries and sukha, now what is the basis of > d- > > > 16. If you divide 16/12 rasis, you get a remainder of 4. Thus 4th > > > house is the basis of shodasamsa. > > > For d-24, 12th house is the basis, and for vimsamsa(d-20) 8th > house > > > is the basis. > > > > > > 4th house, 8th and 12th house are the foundations for moksha, > they > > > are the moksha sthanas. > > > > > > 3.2 degrees is a mathematical output of the division that we > > perform > > > on a rasi by 9. Now why 9?, 9 shows our guru, our tradition, the > > > parampara, the higher guidance, it also shows the fortune. So > > > Divisional charts at physical planes such as navamsa show fortune > > and > > > talents that are easily manfiested. But when you go to > Nakshatramsa > > (d- > > > 27) whose basis is also 9, you are not talking about talents > alone, > > > you are also talking about the finer psychological aspects of > > > strenghts and weaknesses of a person, his motivations, and his > > > depressions etc. > > > > > > more later > > > regards > > > partha > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep" > > > <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > > > > Dear Partha ji > > > > > > > > Thanks for igniting the thought process and guiding it through > > new > > > > channels, as you always do:) > > > > The statement regarding indications in the Rashi and the > > necessity > > > > of its realization to avoid re occurences were also good. > > > > I will search for the various Koshas mentioned.I can also > relate > > or > > > > coform with your logic.Because the more you divide the finer > you > > > > discover.And hence divisional charts shows finer elements. > > > > > > > > But i am not fully satisfied with the second part. > > > > > > > > My questions were seeking some explanation plus references from > > the > > > > classics.(House concepts in divisional charts and aspects). > > > > > > > > Let us assume we are constructing a navamsha chart. > > > > We have Rashi in hand.We also have a chart template with no > > entries > > > > for making navamsha. > > > > Let us go to Lagna in Rashi ,assume it is Sag.We divide Sag > into > > > nine > > > > (starting with Aries,as fifth from Sag is Aries).If the degree > of > > > > lagna is 11 in Rashi, then lagna falls in the fourth navamsha > > > > division - Cancer,. > > > > We go to our template chart and mark - ASC in Cancer. > > > > Similarly we go to second house in Rashi - We divide it into > nine > > > > and since Capricorn is a movable Rashi, navamsha starts from > > > > Capricorn itself.If moon was placed at 2 degrees in Rashi,then > > moon > > > > falls in the first (3.2 degree)division of Navamsha ie > Capricorn > > > > itself.We go to our template chart and mark MO in Capricorn.But > > now > > > > the house in which moon is placed becomes '7' (as Capricorn is > > > > seventh from Cancer).Similarly another planet which was at 29 > > > > degrees in 2nd house goes to 3rd house in Virgo.Thus what we > have > > > > done is, just the scattering of planets in a template chart for > > the > > > > easiness of understanding its finer placements.Only logical > thing > > > > what we have done is dividing each rashi into 9 and finding the > > > > exact nava amsha placement of that planet.But i am unable to > find > > > > the logic behind following house system similar to Rashi.(I > found > > > > from cup of magic site the logic behind finding the first > > navamsha > > > > in each sign) > > > > > > > > Hence my request to help me in finding a reference regarding > this > > > in > > > > Classics.Similarly aspects are due to the angular placements of > > > > planets.Even if we divide a rashi into 100 divisions the > planets > > > > position remains the same.Only thing what we are discovering > new > > is > > > > the finer details of its position(environment).For example when > > > > looking from a higher level in human body we can say hand has > got > > > > nails.But when we divide or go closer we can say the nails are > > part > > > > of the palm and further division says it is part of > fingers.Thus > > we > > > > are identifying the finer rashi properties within a Rashi > > (assuming > > > > every rashi consists of tattwas of other rashis(Shiv Chadda jis > > > > mail) and also related to nakshatra charana (Chandrashekhar jis > > > > mail).But the position of the concerned planet w.r to other > > planets > > > > remains the same irrespective of any number of divisions.Hence > > the > > > > aspects has to remain the same as in Rashi.What do you think? > > > > Otherwise we have to find a new logic behind this aspect. > > > > > > > > Kindly think over this and try to help me.If possible i will be > > > > happy if you could give some reference regarding house system > and > > > > aspects in divisional charts. > > > > > > > > Best Regds > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "V.Partha sarathy" > > > > <partvinu5> wrote: > > > > > Dear Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The divisional charts are the finer layers of the person's > > being. > > > > > > > > > > THere are five kosas of a human being according to > > Shankaracharya > > > > > > > > > > a) Annamaya Kosa(gross body) > > > > > b) Pranamaya Kosa(vital body) > > > > > c) Manomaya Kosa(mental body) > > > > > d) Vignanamaya Kosa(the intelligence body) > > > > > e) Anandamaya Kosa(the bliss sheath) > > > > > > > > > > The higher divisional charts show the impressions formed and > > > > carried > > > > > due to the various past life karmas. These impressions if not > > > > > detected, would repeat again and again. A person divorcing > his > > > > wife > > > > > in past life may get the problem again, if he does not burn > > away > > > > the > > > > > past karma. > > > > > > > > > > All the rules applicable to Rasi chart are applicable to > > > > Divisional > > > > > charts. > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter-moon yoga in a divisional chart is as valid as in > rasi > > > > chart. > > > > > When you see a person, you are actually seeing the gross > body. > > > You > > > > > are not looking at his aura, the four other bodies, the > subtle > > > > > impressions that he is carrying. Thus any yoga that is there > in > > > > > subtle bodies is bound to give its effects. I may not have > Gaja > > > > > Kesari yoga in present life time, infact i have a sakata > yoga. > > > But > > > > i > > > > > have Gaja kesari yoga in past life, whose rewards i am > reaping > > in > > > > > this life. > > > > > more later > > > > > regards > > > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "vijayadas_pradeep" > > > > > <vijayadas_pradeep> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Parthasarathy ji > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for lending your hand. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would be happy if you can tell me the basis for navamsha > > > > > > division.Because in some Rashis the navamsha counting > starts > > > > from > > > > > > itself,while for others it starts from 5,9. > > > > > > > > > > > > In classics is there any mention of aspects in divisional > > > > > > charts.Because with my understanding so far - i feel if one > > > sees > > > > > > amshas as a total chart - it could be misleading.It can be > > > drawn > > > > as > > > > > > a chart, for easier demonstration of planetary positions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Because if you see Jupiter and Mars together in Navamsha > say > > in > > > > > Leo - > > > > > > they cannot be actually together,unless they are together > in > > > > > > Rashi.But it says Jupiter is in navamsha of Leo of a > > particular > > > > > > Rashi and Mars is in the Navamsha of Leo of another > > Rashi.Thus > > > > > > though these are together in Navamsha,We should not analyse > > > this > > > > > > together.My understanding is See where is Jupiter in Rashi - > > > > > > > reconfirm its strength in Navamsha by seeing in which sign > it > > > is > > > > > > there.Similarly for Mars repeat the procedure.These should > be > > > > > > analysed individually.Integrated analysis must be done at > > Rashi > > > > > > level. > > > > > > Similarly house system in Divisional charts - is there any > > > > > > reference in classics.Because any amsha occurences like > > > > > > Gopura,Simhasana etc verifies just the occurence of the > > planets > > > > in > > > > > > the same rashi.Thus my view is, only the sign and its > > relation > > > > with > > > > > > the concerned planet has significance in divisional charts > > > > > > (nakshthras are automatically taken care). > > > > > > > > > > > > My views could wrong ,but i am not convinced ,thus kindly > > help > > > > me > > > > > > with your knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "V.Partha sarathy" > > > > > > <partvinu5> wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Pradeep > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What exactly is your doubt, do you want to know the basis > > of > > > > > > > divisions, divisional charts, or what else? I can prove > to > > be > > > > > some > > > > > > > help if you reframe your question. > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vijayadas_pradeep wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandrashekhar ji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was bit curious about the logic behind divisions > > within > > > a > > > > > > > > > Rashi.Each rashi can be divided further into > 9,10,24,60 > > > > etc > > > > > > > starting > > > > > > > > > from aries until pisces and then aries again.Have you > > > come > > > > > > across > > > > > > > > > any reasons for this during ur experiments with > > > > astrology.I > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > asked a qstn cpl of days back addressed to Narasimha > > > > Raoji.It > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > difficult to find logic behind every usage and may > not > > be > > > > > > needed > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > well.Still just out of curiousity.Becuase this could > > help > > > > us > > > > > > > > > understand the validity of aspects within divisional > > > > charts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > > > > > > Pradeep > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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