News Article:'Lord Ram was born in 5114 BC'

[Guest guest]

Respected Guruji,

In his best ever seller "A Brief History of Time",the greatest living

Astrophysicist Stephen Hawking has pointed out the amazing and curious fact

about the astounding accuracy to a nuclear war in Mahabharatha ! But where

is the anthropological or archeological evidence for it?Modern science is

still very much in its infancy and is just about able to touch the tip of

the iceberg containing the deepest ever scientific and spiritual wisdom in

our scriptures and epics.

In the recent photo images released by Nasa,the bridge between Rameswaram

and Srilanka is very clear and they have remarked on its structure and age -

Yes, 1.3 million years - matching the descriptions in Ramayana.Perhaps we

should go there and search under water in the sea for the necessary

scientific evidence.

Attempts to prove that Rama lived some 5000 yeras before are pathetic,to say

the least.

Regards

Kaimal

-

pvr108 <pvr

<vedic astrology>

Wednesday, November 12, 2003 12:12 AM

[vedic astrology] Re: News Article:'Lord Ram was born in 5114 BC'

 

 

Namaste Mukund,

 

We, orthodox Hindus, believe that Kali Yuga is of 432,000 years,

Dwapara yuga is for 864,000 years and Treta yuga is for 1,296,000

years. We also believe that we are about 5,000 years or so into

Kali yuga. So we believe that Rama lived atleast 1.2 million

years back.

 

This is the commonly held belief among orthodox Hindus and it is

worth noting that there's no conclusive scientific disproof.

 

Regarding "obviously untrue", it is obviously your view. There

is nothing so "obvious" there.

 

Still, I am open to other dates. But, as I said, the chart given

does not match Valmiki's description fully. It is half-baked

research.

 

First, let them find Krishna's chart and then jump to Rama!

 

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

[Guest guest]

Dear Sir,

Thank you for correcting me.Was the whole news a deliberate hoax or only

limited to its reference to its antiquity?If I remember correct,it was

mentioned that it is not a natural phenomenon but a man made structure.

Regards

Kaimal

-

schinnas <schinnas

<vedic astrology>

Thursday, November 13, 2003 10:19 AM

[vedic astrology] Re: News Article:'Lord Ram was born in 5114 BC'

 

 

> Dear Kaimal,

> Your reference to NASA releasing photo images of bridge between

> Rameshwaram and SriLanka and dating it as old as 1.3 million years

> is incorrect. That whole episode was a HOAX.

>

> The stupid Indian newspapers that carried the hoax as a valid news

> item failed to report that it was a hoax when it was revealed that

> NASA made no claims about the antiquity of the sand structrue in the

> ocean in that area. I even wrote a letter to Hindustan Times asking

> them to put a clarification as they have mislead their readers by

> publishing an unsubstantiated hoax, but my email bounced!

>

> warm regards,

> -Siva.

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sanjay and friends,

 

If the date meant is "January 10, -5114" in the Julian calendar,

the chart is way off. If the date meant is "January 10, -5114"

with the Gregorian calendar extrapolated to then, THEN there is

SOME match. The tithi matches and 5 out of 9 planets match. The

chart has Cancer lagna with Moon and Jupiter in it, Venus in

deep exaltation in 9th, Sun close enough to deep exaltation in

10th and Mars in exaltation in 7th. Other planets do not match

the standard chart we take. Saturn is in the 2nd degree of Sc

and it may be possible to move him to Li (the calculations of

Swiss ephemeris may be a bit imperfect for very old dates).

But Rahu in Cp, Ketu in Cn and Mercury in Pi may not be right.

 

Interesting research, but definitely not conclusive...

 

We traditionally accept that Lord Rama lived more than a

million years ago...

 

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

 

> || Om Gurave Namah ||

> Dear Jyotishas,

> To the learned Jyotishas I would like to point you to an article.

> I think a poorly researched article is getting publicity.

> Warm Regards,

> S. Prabhakaran

>

> 'Lord Ram was born in 5114 BC'

> Times of India.

> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/xml/uncomp/articleshow?

> msid=273107

>

> 'Lord Ram was born in 5114 BC'

> SUNIT BEZBAROOWA & ARVIND JOSHI

> TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 08, 2003 02:12:42 AM ]

>

> "Ram was and is for real. He was born on January 10, 5114 BC,"

Saroj

> Bala, IRS, Commisioner of Income Tax says, calmly, with the

assurance

> of one who has tangible facts.

> Taking on the contemporary historical interpretation of Ramayana as

a

> religio-literary text, and Lord Ram as a semi-mythical figure, is

> this unassuming person who zealously devotes her spare time to

> research in history when she's not playing the tax mandarin.

> And she has chosen the unusual combination of astronomy, Internet

and

> literary texts to provide us a startling picture of Shri Ram. This

> might change the way we look at history and religion. We might

refuse

> to begin reading Indian history from that comma, or hyphen

> called 'Indus Valley.' We might have to stretch the beginnings by a

> few thousand years because, as Saroj Bala says - Ram was born on

> January 10, 5114 BC.

> Excerpts of an interview with the lady who has the intellectual

> courage to go beyond the obvious:

>

> What got it all started…

>

> As an amateur historian, I've always been interested in Indian

> culture and heritage. I am proud that we're Indians and the

products

> of one of the oldest civilisations. However, British rule changed

us;

> we developed a sense of being somehow inferior.

> But I could never reconcile to theories like the theory of Aryan

> invasion to India in 1500 BC. That would make Indian civilization

> only 3,500 years old.

> And if you choose archaeology to dig beyond 7,000 years, you'd have

> to dig more than 60 metres - something not being done in India as

> yet. So, archaeology is not the only answer. There's a lot of

> objective research of another kind that needs to be carried out in

> earnest.

> So, how can we say Ram was born on January 10, 5114 B.C…

> My colleague Pushkar Bhatnagar of Indian Revenue Service is the

real

> originator of this theory. He acquired a software named

Planetarium,

> used to predict planetary movements and configurations.

> By entering in this software, precise details of planetary

positions

> vis-à-vis zodiac constellations described by Maharishi Valmiki in

the

> Valmiki Ramayan, it is possible to determine important dates

starting

> from Shri Ram's birth-date to the date of his return to Ayodhya.

> More than just Ram's date of birth…

> The results have not just thrown up Shri Ram's date of birth; it

has

> actually traced the entire sequence of incidents throughout

Ramayan.

> Pushkar Bhatnagar starts with tracing Ram's birth. Then he moves

> ahead in the narrative. Valmiki Ramayan states Ram was 25-years-old

> when he went to exile. When the configuration of planets described

at

[Guest guest]

Dear PVR ji and other members,

 

Actually in the story of Sri Raghavendra Swami, there is one

documented episode. Since Sri Raghavendra's charithra is well-

documented, I'm using the term (documented).

 

Sri Raghavendra Swami is surveying some barren lands that were under

the property of the then Diwan of the Mysore area (or maybe current

Karnataka). At some point, Sri Raghavendra Swami points to one area

and asks the diwan to tell his men to dig there, and also states that

he had chosen that land for his Maha Samadhi, which is current

Mantralaya. When the greatly moved and tearsome Diwan asked the

Swamiji why he would choose a waste land as that for his Maha Samadhi

when he (diwan) is ready to give him all of his wonderful estate, Sri

Raghavendra Swami waits (without giving a reply) until the diwan's

men dig the place he pointed out.

 

The men indeed had dug out a rock. At this time Sri Raghavendra Swami

points to the diwan and states that was the rock Sri Rama rested on

while he was travelling during his Vanavasa. Therefore such a sacred

place should be the place of his Maha Samadhi and also the same stone

Sri Rama sat on should be used to cover his Samadhi (the stone that

covers the top of his Samadhi is that stone, as narrated in his

charithra).

 

It may not be possible for the stone to be around if it was a million

years old? (Considering Sri Raghavendra Swami lived only around 700

yrs ago).

 

Best regards,

 

Jayashree

vedic astrology, "pvr108" <pvr@c...> wrote:

> Namaste Sanjay and friends,

>

> If the date meant is "January 10, -5114" in the Julian calendar,

> the chart is way off. If the date meant is "January 10, -5114"

> with the Gregorian calendar extrapolated to then, THEN there is

> SOME match. The tithi matches and 5 out of 9 planets match. The

> chart has Cancer lagna with Moon and Jupiter in it, Venus in

> deep exaltation in 9th, Sun close enough to deep exaltation in

> 10th and Mars in exaltation in 7th. Other planets do not match

> the standard chart we take. Saturn is in the 2nd degree of Sc

> and it may be possible to move him to Li (the calculations of

> Swiss ephemeris may be a bit imperfect for very old dates).

> But Rahu in Cp, Ketu in Cn and Mercury in Pi may not be right.

>

> Interesting research, but definitely not conclusive...

>

> We traditionally accept that Lord Rama lived more than a

> million years ago...

>

> May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> Narasimha

>

> > || Om Gurave Namah ||

> > Dear Jyotishas,

> > To the learned Jyotishas I would like to point you to an

article.

> > I think a poorly researched article is getting publicity.

> > Warm Regards,

> > S. Prabhakaran

> >

> > 'Lord Ram was born in 5114 BC'

> > Times of India.

> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/xml/uncomp/articleshow?

> > msid=273107

> >

> > 'Lord Ram was born in 5114 BC'

> > SUNIT BEZBAROOWA & ARVIND JOSHI

> > TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 08, 2003 02:12:42 AM ]

> >

> > "Ram was and is for real. He was born on January 10, 5114 BC,"

> Saroj

> > Bala, IRS, Commisioner of Income Tax says, calmly, with the

> assurance

> > of one who has tangible facts.

> > Taking on the contemporary historical interpretation of Ramayana

as

> a

> > religio-literary text, and Lord Ram as a semi-mythical figure, is

> > this unassuming person who zealously devotes her spare time to

> > research in history when she's not playing the tax mandarin.

> > And she has chosen the unusual combination of astronomy, Internet

> and

> > literary texts to provide us a startling picture of Shri Ram.

This

> > might change the way we look at history and religion. We might

> refuse

> > to begin reading Indian history from that comma, or hyphen

> > called 'Indus Valley.' We might have to stretch the beginnings by

a

> > few thousand years because, as Saroj Bala says - Ram was born on

> > January 10, 5114 BC.

> > Excerpts of an interview with the lady who has the intellectual

> > courage to go beyond the obvious:

> >

> > What got it all started…

> >

> > As an amateur historian, I've always been interested in Indian

> > culture and heritage. I am proud that we're Indians and the

> products

> > of one of the oldest civilisations. However, British rule changed

> us;

> > we developed a sense of being somehow inferior.

> > But I could never reconcile to theories like the theory of Aryan

> > invasion to India in 1500 BC. That would make Indian civilization

> > only 3,500 years old.

> > And if you choose archaeology to dig beyond 7,000 years, you'd

have

> > to dig more than 60 metres - something not being done in India as

> > yet. So, archaeology is not the only answer. There's a lot of

> > objective research of another kind that needs to be carried out

in

> > earnest.

> > So, how can we say Ram was born on January 10, 5114 B.C…

> > My colleague Pushkar Bhatnagar of Indian Revenue Service is the

> real

> > originator of this theory. He acquired a software named

> Planetarium,

> > used to predict planetary movements and configurations.

> > By entering in this software, precise details of planetary

> positions

> > vis-à-vis zodiac constellations described by Maharishi Valmiki in

> the

> > Valmiki Ramayan, it is possible to determine important dates

> starting

> > from Shri Ram's birth-date to the date of his return to Ayodhya.

> > More than just Ram's date of birth…

> > The results have not just thrown up Shri Ram's date of birth; it

> has

> > actually traced the entire sequence of incidents throughout

> Ramayan.

> > Pushkar Bhatnagar starts with tracing Ram's birth. Then he moves

> > ahead in the narrative. Valmiki Ramayan states Ram was 25-years-

old

> > when he went to exile. When the configuration of planets

described

> at

[Guest guest]

C'mon Narsimha:

 

Ramayan pre-dates Mahabharat by approximately 3000 years, where did

you hear about "millions of years?" Ya, the mythology talks about a

lot things which are obviously untrue. I feel the -5114 makes sense.

 

Mukund

 

vedic astrology, "pvr108" <pvr@c...> wrote:

> Namaste Sanjay and friends,

>

> If the date meant is "January 10, -5114" in the Julian calendar,

> the chart is way off. If the date meant is "January 10, -5114"

> with the Gregorian calendar extrapolated to then, THEN there is

> SOME match. The tithi matches and 5 out of 9 planets match. The

> chart has Cancer lagna with Moon and Jupiter in it, Venus in

> deep exaltation in 9th, Sun close enough to deep exaltation in

> 10th and Mars in exaltation in 7th. Other planets do not match

> the standard chart we take. Saturn is in the 2nd degree of Sc

> and it may be possible to move him to Li (the calculations of

> Swiss ephemeris may be a bit imperfect for very old dates).

> But Rahu in Cp, Ketu in Cn and Mercury in Pi may not be right.

>

> Interesting research, but definitely not conclusive...

>

> We traditionally accept that Lord Rama lived more than a

> million years ago...

>

> May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> Narasimha

>

> > || Om Gurave Namah ||

> > Dear Jyotishas,

> > To the learned Jyotishas I would like to point you to an

article.

> > I think a poorly researched article is getting publicity.

> > Warm Regards,

> > S. Prabhakaran

> >

> > 'Lord Ram was born in 5114 BC'

> > Times of India.

> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/xml/uncomp/articleshow?

> > msid=273107

> >

> > 'Lord Ram was born in 5114 BC'

> > SUNIT BEZBAROOWA & ARVIND JOSHI

> > TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 08, 2003 02:12:42 AM ]

> >

> > "Ram was and is for real. He was born on January 10, 5114 BC,"

> Saroj

> > Bala, IRS, Commisioner of Income Tax says, calmly, with the

> assurance

> > of one who has tangible facts.

> > Taking on the contemporary historical interpretation of Ramayana

as

> a

> > religio-literary text, and Lord Ram as a semi-mythical figure, is

> > this unassuming person who zealously devotes her spare time to

> > research in history when she's not playing the tax mandarin.

> > And she has chosen the unusual combination of astronomy, Internet

> and

> > literary texts to provide us a startling picture of Shri Ram.

This

> > might change the way we look at history and religion. We might

> refuse

> > to begin reading Indian history from that comma, or hyphen

> > called 'Indus Valley.' We might have to stretch the beginnings by

a

> > few thousand years because, as Saroj Bala says - Ram was born on

> > January 10, 5114 BC.

> > Excerpts of an interview with the lady who has the intellectual

> > courage to go beyond the obvious:

> >

> > What got it all started…

> >

> > As an amateur historian, I've always been interested in Indian

> > culture and heritage. I am proud that we're Indians and the

> products

> > of one of the oldest civilisations. However, British rule changed

> us;

> > we developed a sense of being somehow inferior.

> > But I could never reconcile to theories like the theory of Aryan

> > invasion to India in 1500 BC. That would make Indian civilization

> > only 3,500 years old.

> > And if you choose archaeology to dig beyond 7,000 years, you'd

have

> > to dig more than 60 metres - something not being done in India as

> > yet. So, archaeology is not the only answer. There's a lot of

> > objective research of another kind that needs to be carried out

in

> > earnest.

> > So, how can we say Ram was born on January 10, 5114 B.C…

> > My colleague Pushkar Bhatnagar of Indian Revenue Service is the

> real

> > originator of this theory. He acquired a software named

> Planetarium,

> > used to predict planetary movements and configurations.

> > By entering in this software, precise details of planetary

> positions

> > vis-à-vis zodiac constellations described by Maharishi Valmiki in

> the

> > Valmiki Ramayan, it is possible to determine important dates

> starting

> > from Shri Ram's birth-date to the date of his return to Ayodhya.

> > More than just Ram's date of birth…

> > The results have not just thrown up Shri Ram's date of birth; it

> has

> > actually traced the entire sequence of incidents throughout

> Ramayan.

> > Pushkar Bhatnagar starts with tracing Ram's birth. Then he moves

> > ahead in the narrative. Valmiki Ramayan states Ram was 25-years-

old

> > when he went to exile. When the configuration of planets

described

> at

[Guest guest]

Namaste Mukund,

 

We, orthodox Hindus, believe that Kali Yuga is of 432,000 years,

Dwapara yuga is for 864,000 years and Treta yuga is for 1,296,000

years. We also believe that we are about 5,000 years or so into

Kali yuga. So we believe that Rama lived atleast 1.2 million

years back.

 

This is the commonly held belief among orthodox Hindus and it is

worth noting that there's no conclusive scientific disproof.

 

Regarding "obviously untrue", it is obviously your view. There

is nothing so "obvious" there.

 

Still, I am open to other dates. But, as I said, the chart given

does not match Valmiki's description fully. It is half-baked

research.

 

First, let them find Krishna's chart and then jump to Rama!

 

May Jupiter's light shine on us,

Narasimha

 

> C'mon Narsimha:

>

> Ramayan pre-dates Mahabharat by approximately 3000 years, where did

> you hear about "millions of years?" Ya, the mythology talks about

a

> lot things which are obviously untrue. I feel the -5114 makes sense.

>

> Mukund

>

> vedic astrology, "pvr108" <pvr@c...> wrote:

> > Namaste Sanjay and friends,

> >

> > If the date meant is "January 10, -5114" in the Julian calendar,

> > the chart is way off. If the date meant is "January 10, -5114"

> > with the Gregorian calendar extrapolated to then, THEN there is

> > SOME match. The tithi matches and 5 out of 9 planets match. The

> > chart has Cancer lagna with Moon and Jupiter in it, Venus in

> > deep exaltation in 9th, Sun close enough to deep exaltation in

> > 10th and Mars in exaltation in 7th. Other planets do not match

> > the standard chart we take. Saturn is in the 2nd degree of Sc

> > and it may be possible to move him to Li (the calculations of

> > Swiss ephemeris may be a bit imperfect for very old dates).

> > But Rahu in Cp, Ketu in Cn and Mercury in Pi may not be right.

> >

> > Interesting research, but definitely not conclusive...

> >

> > We traditionally accept that Lord Rama lived more than a

> > million years ago...

> >

> > May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> > Narasimha

> >

> > > || Om Gurave Namah ||

> > > Dear Jyotishas,

> > > To the learned Jyotishas I would like to point you to an

> article.

> > > I think a poorly researched article is getting publicity.

> > > Warm Regards,

> > > S. Prabhakaran

> > >

> > > 'Lord Ram was born in 5114 BC'

> > > Times of India.

> > >

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/xml/uncomp/articleshow?

> > > msid=273107

> > >

> > > 'Lord Ram was born in 5114 BC'

> > > SUNIT BEZBAROOWA & ARVIND JOSHI

> > > TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 08, 2003 02:12:42 AM ]

> > >

> > > "Ram was and is for real. He was born on January 10, 5114 BC,"

> > Saroj

> > > Bala, IRS, Commisioner of Income Tax says, calmly, with the

> > assurance

> > > of one who has tangible facts.

> > > Taking on the contemporary historical interpretation of

Ramayana

> as

> > a

> > > religio-literary text, and Lord Ram as a semi-mythical figure,

is

> > > this unassuming person who zealously devotes her spare time to

> > > research in history when she's not playing the tax mandarin.

> > > And she has chosen the unusual combination of astronomy,

Internet

> > and

> > > literary texts to provide us a startling picture of Shri Ram.

> This

> > > might change the way we look at history and religion. We might

> > refuse

> > > to begin reading Indian history from that comma, or hyphen

> > > called 'Indus Valley.' We might have to stretch the beginnings

by

> a

> > > few thousand years because, as Saroj Bala says - Ram was born

on

> > > January 10, 5114 BC.

> > > Excerpts of an interview with the lady who has the intellectual

> > > courage to go beyond the obvious:

> > >

> > > What got it all started…

> > >

> > > As an amateur historian, I've always been interested in Indian

> > > culture and heritage. I am proud that we're Indians and the

> > products

> > > of one of the oldest civilisations. However, British rule

changed

> > us;

> > > we developed a sense of being somehow inferior.

> > > But I could never reconcile to theories like the theory of

Aryan

> > > invasion to India in 1500 BC. That would make Indian

civilization

> > > only 3,500 years old.

> > > And if you choose archaeology to dig beyond 7,000 years, you'd

> have

> > > to dig more than 60 metres - something not being done in India

as

> > > yet. So, archaeology is not the only answer. There's a lot of

> > > objective research of another kind that needs to be carried out

> in

> > > earnest.

> > > So, how can we say Ram was born on January 10, 5114 B.C…

> > > My colleague Pushkar Bhatnagar of Indian Revenue Service is the

> > real

> > > originator of this theory. He acquired a software named

> > Planetarium,

> > > used to predict planetary movements and configurations.

> > > By entering in this software, precise details of planetary

> > positions

> > > vis-à-vis zodiac constellations described by Maharishi Valmiki

in

> > the

> > > Valmiki Ramayan, it is possible to determine important dates

> > starting

> > > from Shri Ram's birth-date to the date of his return to

Ayodhya.

> > > More than just Ram's date of birth…

> > > The results have not just thrown up Shri Ram's date of birth;

it

> > has

> > > actually traced the entire sequence of incidents throughout

> > Ramayan.

> > > Pushkar Bhatnagar starts with tracing Ram's birth. Then he

moves

> > > ahead in the narrative. Valmiki Ramayan states Ram was 25-years-

> old

> > > when he went to exile. When the configuration of planets

> described

> > at

[Guest guest]

There is also the curiously contradictory fact - I'm sure everyone

ignores paleo-anthropological evidence on this newsgroup - but be

that as it may it is still interesting to note that: 1,000,000 years

ago is the earliest fossil evidence of the appearance of man-as-we-

currently-know-it on earth. By man, I mean Homo Sapiens. There were

other "Homo" genus before that time, but they were still evolving to

get to the currently known biological state. Man & Ape branched out

approximately 5,000,000 years ago, again according to paleo-

anthropological evidence, which steadily streams in and repeatedly

confirms the above facts.

 

None of this can be reconciled with a 6 zeros date. About 1,000,000

years ago, again according to all fossil and archaelogical evidence,

there was only marginal society, no complex forms of communication

(let alone written records of it). That only comes about 990,000

years later. Quite a gap, wouldnt you say?

 

Obviously, there is a huge disconnect between literary evidence and

archaelogical and paleo-anthropological evidence. The real challenge

is: Who can reconcile the two? I would really like to hear PVRs

comments since PVR has a long history of presenting a balanced and

wise view..

 

Sundeep

 

vedic astrology, "pvr108" <pvr@c...> wrote:

> Namaste Mukund,

>

> We, orthodox Hindus, believe that Kali Yuga is of 432,000 years,

> Dwapara yuga is for 864,000 years and Treta yuga is for 1,296,000

> years. We also believe that we are about 5,000 years or so into

> Kali yuga. So we believe that Rama lived atleast 1.2 million

> years back.

>

> This is the commonly held belief among orthodox Hindus and it is

> worth noting that there's no conclusive scientific disproof.

>

> Regarding "obviously untrue", it is obviously your view. There

> is nothing so "obvious" there.

>

> Still, I am open to other dates. But, as I said, the chart given

> does not match Valmiki's description fully. It is half-baked

> research.

>

> First, let them find Krishna's chart and then jump to Rama!

>

> May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> Narasimha

>

> > C'mon Narsimha:

> >

> > Ramayan pre-dates Mahabharat by approximately 3000 years, where

did

> > you hear about "millions of years?" Ya, the mythology talks

about

> a

> > lot things which are obviously untrue. I feel the -5114 makes

sense.

> >

> > Mukund

> >

> > vedic astrology, "pvr108" <pvr@c...> wrote:

> > > Namaste Sanjay and friends,

> > >

> > > If the date meant is "January 10, -5114" in the Julian calendar,

> > > the chart is way off. If the date meant is "January 10, -5114"

> > > with the Gregorian calendar extrapolated to then, THEN there is

> > > SOME match. The tithi matches and 5 out of 9 planets match. The

> > > chart has Cancer lagna with Moon and Jupiter in it, Venus in

> > > deep exaltation in 9th, Sun close enough to deep exaltation in

> > > 10th and Mars in exaltation in 7th. Other planets do not match

> > > the standard chart we take. Saturn is in the 2nd degree of Sc

> > > and it may be possible to move him to Li (the calculations of

> > > Swiss ephemeris may be a bit imperfect for very old dates).

> > > But Rahu in Cp, Ketu in Cn and Mercury in Pi may not be right.

> > >

> > > Interesting research, but definitely not conclusive...

> > >

> > > We traditionally accept that Lord Rama lived more than a

> > > million years ago...

> > >

> > > May Jupiter's light shine on us,

> > > Narasimha

> > >

> > > > || Om Gurave Namah ||

> > > > Dear Jyotishas,

> > > > To the learned Jyotishas I would like to point you to an

> > article.

> > > > I think a poorly researched article is getting publicity.

> > > > Warm Regards,

> > > > S. Prabhakaran

> > > >

> > > > 'Lord Ram was born in 5114 BC'

> > > > Times of India.

> > > >

> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/xml/uncomp/articleshow?

> > > > msid=273107

> > > >

> > > > 'Lord Ram was born in 5114 BC'

> > > > SUNIT BEZBAROOWA & ARVIND JOSHI

> > > > TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 08, 2003 02:12:42 AM ]

> > > >

> > > > "Ram was and is for real. He was born on January 10, 5114

BC,"

> > > Saroj

> > > > Bala, IRS, Commisioner of Income Tax says, calmly, with the

> > > assurance

> > > > of one who has tangible facts.

> > > > Taking on the contemporary historical interpretation of

> Ramayana

> > as

> > > a

> > > > religio-literary text, and Lord Ram as a semi-mythical

figure,

> is

> > > > this unassuming person who zealously devotes her spare time

to

> > > > research in history when she's not playing the tax mandarin.

> > > > And she has chosen the unusual combination of astronomy,

> Internet

> > > and

> > > > literary texts to provide us a startling picture of Shri Ram.

> > This

> > > > might change the way we look at history and religion. We

might

> > > refuse

> > > > to begin reading Indian history from that comma, or hyphen

> > > > called 'Indus Valley.' We might have to stretch the

beginnings

> by

> > a

> > > > few thousand years because, as Saroj Bala says - Ram was born

> on

> > > > January 10, 5114 BC.

> > > > Excerpts of an interview with the lady who has the

intellectual

> > > > courage to go beyond the obvious:

> > > >

> > > > What got it all started…

> > > >

> > > > As an amateur historian, I've always been interested in

Indian

> > > > culture and heritage. I am proud that we're Indians and the

> > > products

> > > > of one of the oldest civilisations. However, British rule

> changed

> > > us;

> > > > we developed a sense of being somehow inferior.

> > > > But I could never reconcile to theories like the theory of

> Aryan

> > > > invasion to India in 1500 BC. That would make Indian

> civilization

> > > > only 3,500 years old.

> > > > And if you choose archaeology to dig beyond 7,000 years,

you'd

> > have

> > > > to dig more than 60 metres - something not being done in

India

> as

> > > > yet. So, archaeology is not the only answer. There's a lot of

> > > > objective research of another kind that needs to be carried

out

> > in

> > > > earnest.

> > > > So, how can we say Ram was born on January 10, 5114 B.C…

> > > > My colleague Pushkar Bhatnagar of Indian Revenue Service is

the

> > > real

> > > > originator of this theory. He acquired a software named

> > > Planetarium,

> > > > used to predict planetary movements and configurations.

> > > > By entering in this software, precise details of planetary

> > > positions

> > > > vis-à-vis zodiac constellations described by Maharishi

Valmiki

> in

> > > the

> > > > Valmiki Ramayan, it is possible to determine important dates

> > > starting

> > > > from Shri Ram's birth-date to the date of his return to

> Ayodhya.

> > > > More than just Ram's date of birth…

> > > > The results have not just thrown up Shri Ram's date of birth;

> it

> > > has

> > > > actually traced the entire sequence of incidents throughout

> > > Ramayan.

> > > > Pushkar Bhatnagar starts with tracing Ram's birth. Then he

> moves

> > > > ahead in the narrative. Valmiki Ramayan states Ram was 25-

years-

> > old

> > > > when he went to exile. When the configuration of planets

> > described

> > > at

[Guest guest]

In poetry, poets of ancient India (and even nowadays) are known for

their exaggeration and putting words to 'fill the meter' (satisfy

the rigid rules regarding syntax).

 

I dont find a single logical argument in the study other than wishes

and hopes of the author to prove that Indian civilization is older

than the archeologically deductable time period.

 

It is not uncommon in poetry to describe full moon and multiple

constellations to denote auspicious and beautiful sky. Similary

meteors and comets are used to denote evils. Whether or not the sky

actually was like that at that time is anybody's guess.

 

I loved the part about the author's deduction that it took Lord

Hanuman 4 hours to fly to Lanka since Valmiki mentioned seeing 8

constellations.

 

It is really sad to see that no concrete, sincere research is done

in unearthing India's history. Guess works and wishful thinking

cannot and should not pass for research and discovery. It will do a

lot of harm in the long run.

 

warm regards,

-Siva.

 

vedic astrology, "sanjayprabhakaran"

<sprabhakaran@s...> wrote:

> || Om Gurave Namah ||

> Dear Jyotishas,

> To the learned Jyotishas I would like to point you to an article.

> I think a poorly researched article is getting publicity.

> Warm Regards,

> S. Prabhakaran

>

> 'Lord Ram was born in 5114 BC'

> Times of India.

> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/xml/uncomp/articleshow?

> msid=273107

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Siva:

 

The saddest part of Indian history and heritage is that to this day

we/I don't know the evolution of human beings in the sub-continent of

India.

 

We Indians don't look like the Mongloid cultures/nations surrounding

us so we couldn't have evolved from the Mongloid race.

 

We Indians look a lot like the European Cocassoids, but there are two

oceans and one big desert between India and Europe to the West and

the mountain ranges of Himalayas to the North so the humans couldn't

have moved to India either from Western Europe or from Russia

(Eastern Europe) due to natural barriers.

 

Well, then the only possible explanation is that there could/should

have been a land bridge between India and Western Europe in the pre-

hitoric times and humans may have moved over this land bridge from

Europe to India.

 

Also, our Hindu scriptures consistently refer to the term Arya/Arya-

putra, Arya-putri. Well, who were these Aryans? Were they indeginious

people or immigrants to India?

 

Moreover, the further North we go in India (Punjab, Rajesthan,

Kashmir) we see extremely fair and light-eyed people (most look like

Europeans). The further South we go (all the way to Sri Lanka),

people are darker and their eyes are darker, why is there such a

disparity in skin and eye colour in the same nation/land mass?

 

-- Does this mean that there was an indegnious population in India

and then there was a large scale immigration to India from somewhere

else and the two groups mixed to give us the present day Indians?

 

Siva, a lot of questions about India are still unanswered? God only

knows when someone will conduct a sincere research on origins of

humans in India.

 

Mukund

 

vedic astrology, "schinnas" <schinnas>

wrote:

> In poetry, poets of ancient India (and even nowadays) are known for

> their exaggeration and putting words to 'fill the meter' (satisfy

> the rigid rules regarding syntax).

>

> I dont find a single logical argument in the study other than

wishes

> and hopes of the author to prove that Indian civilization is older

> than the archeologically deductable time period.

>

> It is not uncommon in poetry to describe full moon and multiple

> constellations to denote auspicious and beautiful sky. Similary

> meteors and comets are used to denote evils. Whether or not the sky

> actually was like that at that time is anybody's guess.

>

> I loved the part about the author's deduction that it took Lord

> Hanuman 4 hours to fly to Lanka since Valmiki mentioned seeing 8

> constellations.

>

> It is really sad to see that no concrete, sincere research is done

> in unearthing India's history. Guess works and wishful thinking

> cannot and should not pass for research and discovery. It will do a

> lot of harm in the long run.

>

> warm regards,

> -Siva.

>

> vedic astrology, "sanjayprabhakaran"

> <sprabhakaran@s...> wrote:

> > || Om Gurave Namah ||

> > Dear Jyotishas,

> > To the learned Jyotishas I would like to point you to an

article.

> > I think a poorly researched article is getting publicity.

> > Warm Regards,

> > S. Prabhakaran

> >

> > 'Lord Ram was born in 5114 BC'

> > Times of India.

> > http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/xml/uncomp/articleshow?

> > msid=273107

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear members,

Here are some of my humble thoughts

(it took me a lifetime to understand the Rama phenonmenona and still

learning more about him … as they say. "Ram Annanth and Katha

Annantha"..his story is simply endless…):

 

Well on one hand there is a huge inclination to agree with the

proposed time period of yugas and that Rama appeared a million years

ago and that the present Kaliyuga is 432,000 years old… yet however

on the other hand Its hard to reconcile with the facts that while we

are able to find skeletons of pre-historic creatured like Dinosaurs

whose rein existed from 225 millions yeara ago to 65 million years

ago, yet we have no strructures which belong to Lord Rama's times,

which should be just a million years ago time. Now while we are

struggling to locate his birth place, yet there is no evidence at all

that Lord Rama was worshipped even a few thousand years ago

(surprise) during the MahaBharata days..All warriors and learned men

are shown as praying to Lord Shiva/Lord Vishnu/Goddess Durga, but no

one ever directly mentions the name Rama even once. How ironical that

a legendary warrior God has been completely ignored during

MahaBharata days and the same warrior is supposed to have been

declared God by Lord Hanuman(another warrior) in his own times!!!

After all Hanuman showed in his opened chest that only Lord Rama,

Lakshmana and Lord Rama's wife Sita reside in his heart(after

defeating Ravana and reaching Ayodhya from Lanka)…and Lord Rama

closed his chest and granted him forever never-ending life. As a

result of all this Rama was declared God immediately all over India

and there was no doubt left regarding his status as God. So how come

this God has been ignored by all in MahaBaharata Days. So may be it's

a great motivating story written by Valmiki and the people

(Mahabharata days people) in Dwapra yuga recognize this fact. So they

did not acknowledge that he was the God.

 

 

Rather recent history shows that Lord Rama appeared(gave darshan)

before Saint Tulsidas, who rewrote the Ramayana in Hindi since people

could not understand the complex Sanskrit of Valmiki Ramayana…(some

have even suggested that Ramayana is just a great book written by

Valmiki and Lord Rama never existed physically nor was there any

Ravana..these are just moral boosting stories written by

Valmiki..anyway its hard to believe that how could he write such a

perfect story with so many complex developments, considering the fact

that he was not a real sadhu or a great saint by birth but just a

one time robber)

 

ALso recent history of last 400 years shows that the entire Hindu

masses in Northern India were highly demoralized by the Mughal

Emperors control over India and some unknown mysterious intelligent

men started the practice of RamLila(14/15 day plays about Lord Rama's

life) and burning of Ravana's effigies on Dassahera and celebration

of Diwali with full pomp and show. So Lord Rama was used to reinforce

life and pride in the down trodden, demoralized hindu lives….after

all hundreds of temples had been destroyed and the Mughals reined

supreme. Surprizingly the mysterious hindu leaders did not choose any

other God's life or stories for motivation but got together under the

banner of Lord Rama. They paid even less attention to Lord Krishna's

life during the darkest days(400 years) of Hinduism. Well the pundits

went from Kashi to Maharashtra and installed the crown of saviour of

hindusim on Shivaji Maharaj , who was the only independent hindu king

to be crowned in more than 500 years and who declared his

independence from Mughals. Once again Lord Rama and Lord Shiva's

banners were used to fight back…So is Rama just an avatar or a

political force whose appeal never vanishes.They gave him a bow and

arrows and declared that symbolically these are Rama's bow and

arrows! And they continued RamLilas with even more vigour and

enthusiasm.

 

 

 

All this leads to the logical conclusion that Lord Rama did

definitely exist and he existed in last 10,000 years only. There is

nothing to prove that he existed a million years ago(there is no

structural or palentological or archaeological evidence) except our

wishes and beliefs. He was a great warrior and not an acknowledged

God during MahaBharta days..but the very fact that he gave darshan

(visit) to Tulsidas(whose authority on Ramayana has been well

acknowledged) and that Hinduism resurrected around his life in last

400 years, leads to very strong beliefs that he did exist and was the

God in one of his controlled reincarnations. After all people cannot

be so easily fooled into believing in a fictious warrior who existed

a million years ago or who never existed…400 years of RamLilas cannot

be just based on fiction….why did we ever try to focus so much on his

life when compared to Lord Krishna's life, when Lord Krishna is also

another perfect hero( I don't know why).. In fact Lord Krishna has

become more famous in independent India only and that too in last 20

years only…, may be because an independent nation is desperately in

search of more legendary heroes like Arjuna and Krishna and wants to

forget the days of British Empire Slavery. Every civilization needs

its perfect heroes and who else but Lord Rama fits all types of

perfect images simultaneously in all dimensions and for all times.

(would we ever care if his image was not perfect and if he was not

declared as a great political and religious leader and protector of

resurrected Hinduism(which was loosing its directions and under

heavy disintegration one time) for last 400 years? I doubt if we

would even bother to mention his horoscope in that case)…So yes he is

God and does God need a horoscope in the first place?

 

Thanks and Regards

RMK

[Guest guest]

Dear Rajeshji,

 

> Now while we are struggling to locate his birth place, yet there is

> no evidence at all that Lord Rama was worshipped even a few

> thousand years ago (surprise) during the MahaBharata days..All

> warriors and learned men are shown as praying to Lord Shiva/Lord

> Vishnu/Goddess Durga, but no one ever directly mentions the name

> Rama even once

 

With all due respect, what you imply here is incorrect. In

Mahabharata age, people did worship Bhagwan Sri Ram. As a small

example, I would like to present a shloka that appears in Sri Vishnu

Sahasra Namam Phalashruti section, which refers to Bhagwan Sri Ram.

This shloka implies that reciting the name of Bhagwan Sri Ram just

once is equivalent to reciting 1000 names of Sri Vishnu. The sanskrit

form of shloka is -

 

Sri Ram Ram Rameti Rame Raame Manorame

Sahasra Naam Tat Tulyam Ram Naam Varanane

 

Now Sri Vishnu Sahasra Namam was recited by Bhishma Pitamah while

lying on his death-bed to Yudhishthira. Bhishma Pitamah said to

Yudhisthira that any creature can get rid of all the worldly pains

and bonds and attain Moksha simply by reciting Sri Vishnu Sahasra

Namam every day with complete surrender.

 

Hence, there is no doubt that Bhagwan Sri Rama was worshipped in

Mahabharata age.

 

Namaste.

 

Rageshwari.

 

vedic astrology, "Rajesh Mohan Kumaria"

<rajeshkumaria2000> wrote:

> Dear members,

> Here are some of my humble thoughts

> (it took me a lifetime to understand the Rama phenonmenona and

still

> learning more about him … as they say. "Ram Annanth and Katha

> Annantha"..his story is simply endless…):

>

> Well on one hand there is a huge inclination to agree with the

> proposed time period of yugas and that Rama appeared a million

years

> ago and that the present Kaliyuga is 432,000 years old… yet however

> on the other hand Its hard to reconcile with the facts that while

we

> are able to find skeletons of pre-historic creatured like Dinosaurs

> whose rein existed from 225 millions yeara ago to 65 million years

> ago, yet we have no strructures which belong to Lord Rama's times,

> which should be just a million years ago time. Now while we are

> struggling to locate his birth place, yet there is no evidence at

all

> that Lord Rama was worshipped even a few thousand years ago

> (surprise) during the MahaBharata days..All warriors and learned

men

> are shown as praying to Lord Shiva/Lord Vishnu/Goddess Durga, but

no

> one ever directly mentions the name Rama even once. How ironical

that

> a legendary warrior God has been completely ignored during

> MahaBharata days and the same warrior is supposed to have been

> declared God by Lord Hanuman(another warrior) in his own times!!!

> After all Hanuman showed in his opened chest that only Lord Rama,

> Lakshmana and Lord Rama's wife Sita reside in his heart(after

> defeating Ravana and reaching Ayodhya from Lanka)…and Lord Rama

> closed his chest and granted him forever never-ending life. As a

> result of all this Rama was declared God immediately all over India

> and there was no doubt left regarding his status as God. So how

come

> this God has been ignored by all in MahaBaharata Days. So may be

it's

> a great motivating story written by Valmiki and the people

> (Mahabharata days people) in Dwapra yuga recognize this fact. So

they

> did not acknowledge that he was the God.

>

>

> Rather recent history shows that Lord Rama appeared(gave darshan)

> before Saint Tulsidas, who rewrote the Ramayana in Hindi since

people

> could not understand the complex Sanskrit of Valmiki Ramayana…(some

> have even suggested that Ramayana is just a great book written by

> Valmiki and Lord Rama never existed physically nor was there any

> Ravana..these are just moral boosting stories written by

> Valmiki..anyway its hard to believe that how could he write such a

> perfect story with so many complex developments, considering the

fact

> that he was not a real sadhu or a great saint by birth but just a

> one time robber)

>

> ALso recent history of last 400 years shows that the entire Hindu

> masses in Northern India were highly demoralized by the Mughal

> Emperors control over India and some unknown mysterious

intelligent

> men started the practice of RamLila(14/15 day plays about Lord

Rama's

> life) and burning of Ravana's effigies on Dassahera and celebration

> of Diwali with full pomp and show. So Lord Rama was used to

reinforce

> life and pride in the down trodden, demoralized hindu lives….after

> all hundreds of temples had been destroyed and the Mughals reined

> supreme. Surprizingly the mysterious hindu leaders did not choose

any

> other God's life or stories for motivation but got together under

the

> banner of Lord Rama. They paid even less attention to Lord

Krishna's

> life during the darkest days(400 years) of Hinduism. Well the

pundits

> went from Kashi to Maharashtra and installed the crown of saviour

of

> hindusim on Shivaji Maharaj , who was the only independent hindu

king

> to be crowned in more than 500 years and who declared his

> independence from Mughals. Once again Lord Rama and Lord Shiva's

> banners were used to fight back…So is Rama just an avatar or a

> political force whose appeal never vanishes.They gave him a bow and

> arrows and declared that symbolically these are Rama's bow and

> arrows! And they continued RamLilas with even more vigour and

> enthusiasm.

>

>

>

> All this leads to the logical conclusion that Lord Rama did

> definitely exist and he existed in last 10,000 years only. There is

> nothing to prove that he existed a million years ago(there is no

> structural or palentological or archaeological evidence) except our

> wishes and beliefs. He was a great warrior and not an acknowledged

> God during MahaBharta days..but the very fact that he gave darshan

> (visit) to Tulsidas(whose authority on Ramayana has been well

> acknowledged) and that Hinduism resurrected around his life in last

> 400 years, leads to very strong beliefs that he did exist and was

the

> God in one of his controlled reincarnations. After all people

cannot

> be so easily fooled into believing in a fictious warrior who

existed

> a million years ago or who never existed…400 years of RamLilas

cannot

> be just based on fiction….why did we ever try to focus so much on

his

> life when compared to Lord Krishna's life, when Lord Krishna is

also

> another perfect hero( I don't know why).. In fact Lord Krishna has

> become more famous in independent India only and that too in last

20

> years only…, may be because an independent nation is desperately in

> search of more legendary heroes like Arjuna and Krishna and wants

to

> forget the days of British Empire Slavery. Every civilization needs

> its perfect heroes and who else but Lord Rama fits all types of

> perfect images simultaneously in all dimensions and for all times.

> (would we ever care if his image was not perfect and if he was not

> declared as a great political and religious leader and protector of

> resurrected Hinduism(which was loosing its directions and under

> heavy disintegration one time) for last 400 years? I doubt if we

> would even bother to mention his horoscope in that case)…So yes he

is

> God and does God need a horoscope in the first place?

>

> Thanks and Regards

> RMK

[Guest guest]

Hello Mukund,

Difference in color could have been due to evolutionary factors as

a result of south's geographic proximity to the equator.

 

Current evolutionary theory says that white skinned Europeans

evolved from black skinned African forefathers. Genetically, from

what I was told, skin color is one of the easyest possible

evolutionary change. Many factors such as ice age, etc., could have

been a reason for it. When talking about human origins, if we use

current day skin color as a valid argument to determine human

origins thousands/hundreds of thousands of year ago, we have a good

chance of going wrong.

 

Reg. sincere research, unfortunately, no sincere fundamental

research on any field is done in India on a large scale. There are a

few good souls that do sincre research, but it is mostly individual

effort and an isolated event rather than a nationwide phenomenon.

Hopefully things will change in the near future.

 

warm regards,

-Siva.

 

vedic astrology, "monmuk111" <monmuk111>

wrote:

> Hello Siva:

>

> The saddest part of Indian history and heritage is that to this

day

> we/I don't know the evolution of human beings in the sub-continent

of

> India.

>

> We Indians don't look like the Mongloid cultures/nations

surrounding

> us so we couldn't have evolved from the Mongloid race.

>

> We Indians look a lot like the European Cocassoids, but there are

two

> oceans and one big desert between India and Europe to the West and

> the mountain ranges of Himalayas to the North so the humans

couldn't

> have moved to India either from Western Europe or from Russia

> (Eastern Europe) due to natural barriers.

>

> Well, then the only possible explanation is that there

could/should

> have been a land bridge between India and Western Europe in the

pre-

> hitoric times and humans may have moved over this land bridge from

> Europe to India.

>

> Also, our Hindu scriptures consistently refer to the term

Arya/Arya-

> putra, Arya-putri. Well, who were these Aryans? Were they

indeginious

> people or immigrants to India?

>

> Moreover, the further North we go in India (Punjab, Rajesthan,

> Kashmir) we see extremely fair and light-eyed people (most look

like

> Europeans). The further South we go (all the way to Sri Lanka),

> people are darker and their eyes are darker, why is there such a

> disparity in skin and eye colour in the same nation/land mass?

>

> -- Does this mean that there was an indegnious population in India

> and then there was a large scale immigration to India from

somewhere

> else and the two groups mixed to give us the present day Indians?

>

> Siva, a lot of questions about India are still unanswered? God

only

> knows when someone will conduct a sincere research on origins of

> humans in India.

>

> Mukund

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Siva:

 

Ya, I really hope someday someone will take interest in India/Indians

and figure out for sure whether we all evolved in the sub-continent

of India or if we migrated to India from somewhere else.

 

OR was there an indigenious population and a large scale migration

from Europe that mixed with the indigenious people to produce the

present day Indians OR the Europeans who migrated to India grew

darker skins and eyes due to the extreme heat and sunlight--but this

is an evolutionary phenomena and takes millions of years.

 

My gut feeling is that the Indian civilization is app. 5,000 years

old, a period in which both Ramayana and Mahabharat happened. And,

the lineage of Kings/Rulers (Chandragupta) who built Mohan-jo-daro

and Harrapa descended from the Kings at the time of Mahabharat.

 

Had the Indian civilization been millions and millions of years old,

we definitely would have found some remains of that civilization.

Only dinasour remains date back to millions of years.

 

The earliest artifacts found by the archeologist date back only to a

FEW THOUSAND YEARS.

 

Mukund

 

vedic astrology, "schinnas" <schinnas>

wrote:

> Hello Mukund,

> Difference in color could have been due to evolutionary factors

as

> a result of south's geographic proximity to the equator.

>

> Current evolutionary theory says that white skinned Europeans

> evolved from black skinned African forefathers. Genetically, from

> what I was told, skin color is one of the easyest possible

> evolutionary change. Many factors such as ice age, etc., could have

> been a reason for it. When talking about human origins, if we use

> current day skin color as a valid argument to determine human

> origins thousands/hundreds of thousands of year ago, we have a good

> chance of going wrong.

>

> Reg. sincere research, unfortunately, no sincere fundamental

> research on any field is done in India on a large scale. There are

a

> few good souls that do sincre research, but it is mostly individual

> effort and an isolated event rather than a nationwide phenomenon.

> Hopefully things will change in the near future.

>

> warm regards,

> -Siva.

>

> vedic astrology, "monmuk111"

<monmuk111>

> wrote:

> > Hello Siva:

> >

> > The saddest part of Indian history and heritage is that to this

> day

> > we/I don't know the evolution of human beings in the sub-

continent

> of

> > India.

> >

> > We Indians don't look like the Mongloid cultures/nations

> surrounding

> > us so we couldn't have evolved from the Mongloid race.

> >

> > We Indians look a lot like the European Cocassoids, but there are

> two

> > oceans and one big desert between India and Europe to the West

and

> > the mountain ranges of Himalayas to the North so the humans

> couldn't

> > have moved to India either from Western Europe or from Russia

> > (Eastern Europe) due to natural barriers.

> >

> > Well, then the only possible explanation is that there

> could/should

> > have been a land bridge between India and Western Europe in the

> pre-

> > hitoric times and humans may have moved over this land bridge

from

> > Europe to India.

> >

> > Also, our Hindu scriptures consistently refer to the term

> Arya/Arya-

> > putra, Arya-putri. Well, who were these Aryans? Were they

> indeginious

> > people or immigrants to India?

> >

> > Moreover, the further North we go in India (Punjab, Rajesthan,

> > Kashmir) we see extremely fair and light-eyed people (most look

> like

> > Europeans). The further South we go (all the way to Sri Lanka),

> > people are darker and their eyes are darker, why is there such a

> > disparity in skin and eye colour in the same nation/land mass?

> >

> > -- Does this mean that there was an indegnious population in

India

> > and then there was a large scale immigration to India from

> somewhere

> > else and the two groups mixed to give us the present day Indians?

> >

> > Siva, a lot of questions about India are still unanswered? God

> only

> > knows when someone will conduct a sincere research on origins of

> > humans in India.

> >

> > Mukund

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Kaimal,

Your reference to NASA releasing photo images of bridge between

Rameshwaram and SriLanka and dating it as old as 1.3 million years

is incorrect. That whole episode was a HOAX.

 

The stupid Indian newspapers that carried the hoax as a valid news

item failed to report that it was a hoax when it was revealed that

NASA made no claims about the antiquity of the sand structrue in the

ocean in that area. I even wrote a letter to Hindustan Times asking

them to put a clarification as they have mislead their readers by

publishing an unsubstantiated hoax, but my email bounced!

 

warm regards,

-Siva.

 

vedic astrology, SRCKaimal <srckaimal@a...>

wrote:

> Respected Guruji,

> In his best ever seller "A Brief History of Time",the greatest

living

> Astrophysicist Stephen Hawking has pointed out the amazing and

curious fact

> about the astounding accuracy to a nuclear war in Mahabharatha !

But where

> is the anthropological or archeological evidence for it?Modern

science is

> still very much in its infancy and is just about able to touch the

tip of

> the iceberg containing the deepest ever scientific and spiritual

wisdom in

> our scriptures and epics.

> In the recent photo images released by Nasa,the bridge between

Rameswaram

> and Srilanka is very clear and they have remarked on its structure

and age -

> Yes, 1.3 million years - matching the descriptions in

Ramayana.Perhaps we

> should go there and search under water in the sea for the necessary

> scientific evidence.

> Attempts to prove that Rama lived some 5000 yeras before are

pathetic,to say

> the least.

> Regards

> Kaimal

[Guest guest]

Dear Kaimalji,

 

>From what I read, other than the satellite photo of the area, every thing

else attributed to NASA was a lie.

 

NASA didnt give any comment about whether it was a man made structure of a

natural one. Neither did it offer any comment about its antiquity.

 

The fault lies with our irresponsible media. They should have atleast tried

to get confirmation from the supposed source of the information or tried to

look for an official press release from NASA containing that information.

This was obviously a hoax planned out by a sick mind or a sick group. But

the responsibility lies with out media in verifying such information,

before passing it off as a fact.

 

What is unfortunate is that now we will have hundreds of thousands of

people blindly believing this hoax as a fact.

 

warm regards,

-Siva.

 

 

vedic astrology, SRCKaimal <srckaimal@a...> wrote:

> Dear Sir,

> Thank you for correcting me.Was the whole news a deliberate hoax or only

> limited to its reference to its antiquity?If I remember correct,it was

> mentioned that it is not a natural phenomenon but a man made structure.

> Regards

> Kaimal

> -

> schinnas <schinnas>

> <vedic astrology>

> Thursday, November 13, 2003 10:19 AM

> [vedic astrology] Re: News Article:'Lord Ram was born in 5114 BC'

>

>

> > Dear Kaimal,

> > Your reference to NASA releasing photo images of bridge between

> > Rameshwaram and SriLanka and dating it as old as 1.3 million years

> > is incorrect. That whole episode was a HOAX.

> >

> > The stupid Indian newspapers that carried the hoax as a valid news

> > item failed to report that it was a hoax when it was revealed that

> > NASA made no claims about the antiquity of the sand structrue in the

> > ocean in that area. I even wrote a letter to Hindustan Times asking

> > them to put a clarification as they have mislead their readers by

> > publishing an unsubstantiated hoax, but my email bounced!

> >

> > warm regards,

> > -Siva.

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Rageshwari ji

 

Many Thanks for giving this information. I acknowledge his name was

known during those days, but my real point is that he was not

worshipped with so much passion then, when compared to the 400 years

of Mughal Empire Rule and British Empire Rule. Bhishma alone is shown

as celebrating deepawali(TV programs and books) and he mentions that

he lights 106 diyas every year for Kaurava Princes and Pandava Princes

(several years before the MahaBharata war). In the darkest days of

hindu/Indian history, Rama is chosen as the all prevading perfect

hero and the masses get together under his name to fight the empires.

Prehaps the Hindu leaders recognized the fact that he is the only

hindu leader who has pan-Indian appeal which transcends regional

boundaries, language barriers and cultural barriers in one single

stroke of Jai Shri Ram. So did Tulsidas re-discovered Lord Rama or

did Lord Rama wish to be known and acknowledged in Kaliyuga! That's

the real mystery here(all this horoscope etc are just fruits/branches

of the same mystery).

 

 

In general, we simply cannot continue our lives every day without

mentioning Lord Rama or Lord Krishna at least once everyday, since we

have a real shortage of known heroes on an all India Basis and we are

fed up of mentioning 2000 years of hindu slavery to various empires.

Whether we(indians/hindus) acknowledge it or not, the hindu spirit

had/has been badly shattered and destroyed over the centuries by the

British and Mughal Empires etc.,They not only destroyed our temples

and killed millions of hindus but most critically also destroyed the

very human spirit of our existence for centuries. The side effects

can be felt even today at different levels. So prehaps Rama and

Krishna recognized this demoralizations and wish to be known

everywhere in Kaliyuga for the sake of motivation only.

 

 

 

Also in India, a dead hero becomes great over night after death and

his life becomes a great legend..And after all Rama's life needs no

manipulations since his real life is really so perfect as he is shown

as Mriyada-Purshottam(one who defeats the evil Ravana's forces and

gets his wife Sita back) and no one appears to reach his standards

(dead or alive)...so we have in our own selfish interests cashed his

image for moral and financial reasons(when one is motivated then one

can earn more money and get better education...so Lord Rama and Lord

Hanumana have been over-used like an essential commodity to increase

our personal motivations and enthusiasm...but the Kauravas and

Pandavas did not need his image so much, since they were very

ambitious and self motivated, and hence they paid far lesser

attention to Lord Rama...so may be only the few learned men and sages

worshipped Rama during Mahabharata days...hope I am clear now).

 

P.S. If there was any weak point in Lord Rama's image, then we have

simply relased our anger on the poor washermen of India and blamed

them(and destiny and Mandodari, wife of Ravana who cursed Lord Rama

at Ravana's death)whole-heartedly for banishing Sita. You see we

simply cannot tolerate any weak point in our heroes.

 

(I think my views are no longer astrologically relevant anymore , so

I will just stop here)

Thanks and Regards

RMK

 

 

vedic astrology, "rageshwari75"

<rageshwari75> wrote:

> Dear Rajeshji,

>

> > Now while we are struggling to locate his birth place, yet there

is

> > no evidence at all that Lord Rama was worshipped even a few

> > thousand years ago (surprise) during the MahaBharata days..All

> > warriors and learned men are shown as praying to Lord Shiva/Lord

> > Vishnu/Goddess Durga, but no one ever directly mentions the name

> > Rama even once

>

> With all due respect, what you imply here is incorrect. In

> Mahabharata age, people did worship Bhagwan Sri Ram. As a small

> example, I would like to present a shloka that appears in Sri

Vishnu

> Sahasra Namam Phalashruti section, which refers to Bhagwan Sri Ram.

> This shloka implies that reciting the name of Bhagwan Sri Ram just

> once is equivalent to reciting 1000 names of Sri Vishnu. The

sanskrit

> form of shloka is -

>

> Sri Ram Ram Rameti Rame Raame Manorame

> Sahasra Naam Tat Tulyam Ram Naam Varanane

>

> Now Sri Vishnu Sahasra Namam was recited by Bhishma Pitamah while

> lying on his death-bed to Yudhishthira. Bhishma Pitamah said to

> Yudhisthira that any creature can get rid of all the worldly pains

> and bonds and attain Moksha simply by reciting Sri Vishnu Sahasra

> Namam every day with complete surrender.

>

> Hence, there is no doubt that Bhagwan Sri Rama was worshipped in

> Mahabharata age.

>

> Namaste.

>

> Rageshwari.

>

> vedic astrology, "Rajesh Mohan Kumaria"

> <rajeshkumaria2000> wrote:

> > Dear members,

> > Here are some of my humble thoughts

> > (it took me a lifetime to understand the Rama phenonmenona and

> still

> > learning more about him … as they say. "Ram Annanth and Katha

> > Annantha"..his story is simply endless…):

> >

> > Well on one hand there is a huge inclination to agree with the

> > proposed time period of yugas and that Rama appeared a million

> years

> > ago and that the present Kaliyuga is 432,000 years old… yet

however

> > on the other hand Its hard to reconcile with the facts that while

> we

> > are able to find skeletons of pre-historic creatured like

Dinosaurs

> > whose rein existed from 225 millions yeara ago to 65 million

years

> > ago, yet we have no strructures which belong to Lord Rama's

times,

> > which should be just a million years ago time. Now while we are

> > struggling to locate his birth place, yet there is no evidence at

> all

> > that Lord Rama was worshipped even a few thousand years ago

> > (surprise) during the MahaBharata days..All warriors and learned

> men

> > are shown as praying to Lord Shiva/Lord Vishnu/Goddess Durga, but

> no

> > one ever directly mentions the name Rama even once. How ironical

> that

> > a legendary warrior God has been completely ignored during

> > MahaBharata days and the same warrior is supposed to have been

> > declared God by Lord Hanuman(another warrior) in his own times!!!

> > After all Hanuman showed in his opened chest that only Lord Rama,

> > Lakshmana and Lord Rama's wife Sita reside in his heart(after

> > defeating Ravana and reaching Ayodhya from Lanka)…and Lord Rama

> > closed his chest and granted him forever never-ending life. As a

> > result of all this Rama was declared God immediately all over

India

> > and there was no doubt left regarding his status as God. So how

> come

> > this God has been ignored by all in MahaBaharata Days. So may be

> it's

> > a great motivating story written by Valmiki and the people

> > (Mahabharata days people) in Dwapra yuga recognize this fact. So

> they

> > did not acknowledge that he was the God.

> >

> >

> > Rather recent history shows that Lord Rama appeared(gave darshan)

> > before Saint Tulsidas, who rewrote the Ramayana in Hindi since

> people

> > could not understand the complex Sanskrit of Valmiki Ramayana…

(some

> > have even suggested that Ramayana is just a great book written by

> > Valmiki and Lord Rama never existed physically nor was there any

> > Ravana..these are just moral boosting stories written by

> > Valmiki..anyway its hard to believe that how could he write such

a

> > perfect story with so many complex developments, considering the

> fact

> > that he was not a real sadhu or a great saint by birth but just

a

> > one time robber)

> >

> > ALso recent history of last 400 years shows that the entire Hindu

> > masses in Northern India were highly demoralized by the Mughal

> > Emperors control over India and some unknown mysterious

> intelligent

> > men started the practice of RamLila(14/15 day plays about Lord

> Rama's

> > life) and burning of Ravana's effigies on Dassahera and

celebration

> > of Diwali with full pomp and show. So Lord Rama was used to

> reinforce

> > life and pride in the down trodden, demoralized hindu

lives….after

> > all hundreds of temples had been destroyed and the Mughals reined

> > supreme. Surprizingly the mysterious hindu leaders did not choose

> any

> > other God's life or stories for motivation but got together under

> the

> > banner of Lord Rama. They paid even less attention to Lord

> Krishna's

> > life during the darkest days(400 years) of Hinduism. Well the

> pundits

> > went from Kashi to Maharashtra and installed the crown of saviour

> of

> > hindusim on Shivaji Maharaj , who was the only independent hindu

> king

> > to be crowned in more than 500 years and who declared his

> > independence from Mughals. Once again Lord Rama and Lord Shiva's

> > banners were used to fight back…So is Rama just an avatar or a

> > political force whose appeal never vanishes.They gave him a bow

and

> > arrows and declared that symbolically these are Rama's bow and

> > arrows! And they continued RamLilas with even more vigour and

> > enthusiasm.

> >

> >

> >

> > All this leads to the logical conclusion that Lord Rama did

> > definitely exist and he existed in last 10,000 years only. There

is

> > nothing to prove that he existed a million years ago(there is no

> > structural or palentological or archaeological evidence) except

our

> > wishes and beliefs. He was a great warrior and not an

acknowledged

> > God during MahaBharta days..but the very fact that he gave darshan

> > (visit) to Tulsidas(whose authority on Ramayana has been well

> > acknowledged) and that Hinduism resurrected around his life in

last

> > 400 years, leads to very strong beliefs that he did exist and was

> the

> > God in one of his controlled reincarnations. After all people

> cannot

> > be so easily fooled into believing in a fictious warrior who

> existed

> > a million years ago or who never existed…400 years of RamLilas

> cannot

> > be just based on fiction….why did we ever try to focus so much on

> his

> > life when compared to Lord Krishna's life, when Lord Krishna is

> also

> > another perfect hero( I don't know why).. In fact Lord Krishna

has

> > become more famous in independent India only and that too in last

> 20

> > years only…, may be because an independent nation is desperately

in

> > search of more legendary heroes like Arjuna and Krishna and wants

> to

> > forget the days of British Empire Slavery. Every civilization

needs

> > its perfect heroes and who else but Lord Rama fits all types of

> > perfect images simultaneously in all dimensions and for all times.

> > (would we ever care if his image was not perfect and if he was

not

> > declared as a great political and religious leader and protector

of

> > resurrected Hinduism(which was loosing its directions and under

> > heavy disintegration one time) for last 400 years? I doubt if we

> > would even bother to mention his horoscope in that case)…So yes

he

> is

> > God and does God need a horoscope in the first place?

> >

> > Thanks and Regards

> > RMK