Guest guest Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 In response to all the questions regarding Moksha or salvation. Here are some brief explanations. The Best way to reach God: According to Hindu scriptures the best way to attain salvation is to think of God all the time through dhyana (contemplation), remembrance and repetition of god's name. If a person trains his mind to remember God all the time, very likely at the time of his death he will be able to concentrate his thoughts on God and attain Him. Through mastery of their senses and minds, many saints and seers gain complete control on the process of death and develop an intuitive awareness of when and in what manner they would depart from this world. When the time comes, leaving necessary instructions to their disciples, they leave their bodies, immersed in a state of samadhi or deep trance. In the Bhagavad gita Srikrishna declares that at the time death he who concentrates his prana between the two eye brows with the strength of his yoga and is engaged in devotion with an unwavering mind he attains the Divine and transcendental. In the eighth chapter named Yoga of Imperishable Brahman in the Upanishad of the divine Bhagavad-Gita , the knowledge of the Absolute, the yogic scripture, and the debate between Arjuna and Lord Krishna. (Read Below) Yoga of Imperishable Brahman Said Arjuna, "O Purushottama, what is that Brahman, What is Adhyatma (inner Self) and what is karma ? What is said to be Adhibhuta (the primeval being ) and what is referred to as Adhidaiva (the Supreme Deity)? "O Madhusudhana, who is Adhiyagna (master of sacrifices) in this body ? And at the time of the final journey how the practitioners of self-control can realize You?" Said Lord Supreme, "Indestructible and beyond all is Brahman. Ones own self is called Adhyatma. The cause behind the creation of all the beings is called karma. "Adhibhuta is by nature destructible. The Purusha (the Manifested Supreme Self) is Adhidaiva. And certainly I am Adhiyagna in the body, O best of the embodied. "At the time of death, he who, remembering Me, leaves the body, attains My State. There is no doubt about this. "O Son of Kunti, whatever a person thinks of at the time of leaving his body , he attains that alone remembering it. "Therefore all the time keep remembering Me and engage in the battle. By offering your mind and intelligence to Me, you will undoubtedly attain Me. "Through the practice of Yoga and meditation with the mind not moving in other directions, one can attain the Supreme Purusha , O Partha. "Always thinking of the Creator, the Ancient, the Ordainer, One who is smaller than the atom, the upholder of all, the unthinkable (beyond thought), whose form is of the color of Aditya (golden color), and who is beyond the dark inconscient. "At the time of death, with unwavering mind, engaged in devotion, by the strength of Yoga, establishing the prana (breath) completely between the two eye brows, he attains the Divine and transcendental Personality of Brahman. "Now I will explain to you briefly that word which the knowers of Vedas call "the Word", which the great sages desire to attain by practicing celibacy and renouncing all passions. "Controlling all the openings of the body, with the mind established in the heart, fixing the prana in the self at the top of the head establishing oneself in the Yoga. "Uttering the monosyllable AUM, which is Brahman, who leaves the body remembering Me, he achieves the highest goal. "To the constantly busy devotee who remembers Me without engaging his mind elsewhere , to him I am very easily attainable, O Partha. "On attaining Me, the great souls are no more subjected to rebirth, suffering and transience, for they have attained the highest perfection. "Arjuna, all worlds up to Brahma loka are subject to rebirth. But O Kaunteya, on reaching Me there is no rebirth. "Those who know that the day of Brahman consists of thousands of Yugas and similarly His nights also, are the knowers of day and night. "From the unmanifest are manifested all the beings at the beginning of the day and are dissolved again into the unmanifest upon the arrival of the night. "All the living entities O Partha, after taking birth again and again, are automatically dissolved as the night arrives and are manifested again upon the arrival of the day. "But beyond the state of unmanifest there is yet another state of unmanifest which is eternal and which can never be annihilated even when all entities are annihilated "It is declared as the unmanifest and undiminishing, which is also known as the ultimate goal by attaining which one) never returns. That is My Supreme Abode. "O Partha, that Supreme Being in whom are situated all the elements and by whom all this is pervaded can be attained only through bhakti (devotion). "O eminent among the Bharatas, now I will explain to you the time when the Yogis depart but never to return, and also the time when they depart but come back again. "Fire, light, day time, the waxing period of the moon, uttarayanam (the summer solstice) - those who depart then, knowers of Brahman, go to the Absolute straight away. "Smoke, night, the waning period of the moon, the winter solstice, those passing away during these attain the moon and return. "The light and darkness are the two permanent modes of departing from this material world. By the former a man goes never to return and by the latter he goes only to come back. "The Yogi who knows these two paths is not deluded. Therefore O Arjuna, establish yourself in the Yoga all the time. "Knowing thus, the Yogi goes beyond the rewards attained by the study of the Vedas, performance of sacrifices, austerities, charitable works and attains the Supreme Abode. Aum Shanti Shanti Shanti. --Sanjay Aggarwal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Sanjay, Sorry to be a bit nitpicky here, but I am struggling to find your opinion here. I personally am well aware of all the quotations you have included. I am also well aware that the Bhagavad Gita recommends Bhakti Yoga as the fastest path to emancipation. If you find that Bhakti is the path for you, you are simply in agreement with the well- known words, and there is really nothing more to say. You are simply preaching to the choir again and again - believe me, this group has absolutely no dearth of people who are well versed in every single vedic scripture (original, no translations) under the sun - for e.g. you will be absolutely amazed at the depth of vedic knowledge of a 20 year old (guys, is he 20 yet - you know who I am talking about) Guru on this group and who is not even Indian, and he isnt the only non Indian OR young Guru. There needs to be a disagreement or new interpretation to start a discussion, which I would love to watch and learn from, since I am mostly an observer. Again, JMHO - just my humble opinion Sundeep vedic astrology, "sanjaytechnology" <sanjaytechnology> wrote: > In response to all the questions regarding Moksha or salvation. Here > are some brief explanations. > > The Best way to reach God: According to Hindu scriptures the best > way to attain salvation is to think of God all the time through > dhyana (contemplation), remembrance and repetition of god's name. If > a person trains his mind to remember God all the time, very likely > at the time of his death he will be able to concentrate his thoughts > on God and attain Him. Through mastery of their senses and minds, > many saints and seers gain complete control on the process of death > and develop an intuitive awareness of when and in what manner they > would depart from this world. When the time comes, leaving necessary > instructions to their disciples, they leave their bodies, immersed > in a state of samadhi or deep trance. In the Bhagavad gita > Srikrishna declares that at the time death he who concentrates his > prana between the two eye brows with the strength of his yoga and is > engaged in devotion with an unwavering mind he attains the Divine > and transcendental. > > In the eighth chapter named Yoga of Imperishable Brahman in the > Upanishad of the divine Bhagavad-Gita , the knowledge of the > Absolute, the yogic scripture, and the debate between Arjuna and > Lord Krishna. (Read Below) > > Yoga of Imperishable Brahman > Said Arjuna, "O Purushottama, what is that Brahman, What is Adhyatma > (inner Self) and what is karma ? What is said to be Adhibhuta (the > primeval being ) and what is referred to as Adhidaiva (the Supreme > Deity)? > > "O Madhusudhana, who is Adhiyagna (master of sacrifices) in this > body ? And at the time of the final journey how the practitioners of > self-control can realize You?" > > Said Lord Supreme, "Indestructible and beyond all is Brahman. Ones > own self is called Adhyatma. The cause behind the creation of all > the beings is called karma. > > "Adhibhuta is by nature destructible. The Purusha (the Manifested > Supreme Self) is Adhidaiva. And certainly I am Adhiyagna in the > body, O best of the embodied. > > "At the time of death, he who, remembering Me, leaves the body, > attains My State. There is no doubt about this. > > "O Son of Kunti, whatever a person thinks of at the time of leaving > his body , he attains that alone remembering it. > > "Therefore all the time keep remembering Me and engage in the > battle. By offering your mind and intelligence to Me, you will > undoubtedly attain Me. > > "Through the practice of Yoga and meditation with the mind not > moving in other directions, one can attain the Supreme Purusha , O > Partha. > > "Always thinking of the Creator, the Ancient, the Ordainer, One who > is smaller than the atom, the upholder of all, the unthinkable > (beyond thought), whose form is of the color of Aditya (golden > color), and who is beyond the dark inconscient. > > "At the time of death, with unwavering mind, engaged in devotion, by > the strength of Yoga, establishing the prana (breath) completely > between the two eye brows, he attains the Divine and transcendental > Personality of Brahman. > > "Now I will explain to you briefly that word which the knowers of > Vedas call "the Word", which the great sages desire to attain by > practicing celibacy and renouncing all passions. > > "Controlling all the openings of the body, with the mind established > in the heart, fixing the prana in the self at the top of the head > establishing oneself in the Yoga. > > "Uttering the monosyllable AUM, which is Brahman, who leaves the > body remembering Me, he achieves the highest goal. > > "To the constantly busy devotee who remembers Me without engaging > his mind elsewhere , to him I am very easily attainable, O Partha. > > "On attaining Me, the great souls are no more subjected to rebirth, > suffering and transience, for they have attained the highest > perfection. > > "Arjuna, all worlds up to Brahma loka are subject to rebirth. But O > Kaunteya, on reaching Me there is no rebirth. > > "Those who know that the day of Brahman consists of thousands of > Yugas and similarly His nights also, are the knowers of day and > night. > > "From the unmanifest are manifested all the beings at the beginning > of the day and are dissolved again into the unmanifest upon the > arrival of the night. > > "All the living entities O Partha, after taking birth again and > again, are automatically dissolved as the night arrives and are > manifested again upon the arrival of the day. > > "But beyond the state of unmanifest there is yet another state of > unmanifest which is eternal and which can never be annihilated even > when all entities are annihilated > > "It is declared as the unmanifest and undiminishing, which is also > known as the ultimate goal by attaining which one) never returns. > That is My Supreme Abode. > > "O Partha, that Supreme Being in whom are situated all the elements > and by whom all this is pervaded can be attained only through bhakti > (devotion). > > "O eminent among the Bharatas, now I will explain to you the time > when the Yogis depart but never to return, and also the time when > they depart but come back again. > > "Fire, light, day time, the waxing period of the moon, uttarayanam > (the summer solstice) - those who depart then, knowers of Brahman, > go to the Absolute straight away. > > "Smoke, night, the waning period of the moon, the winter solstice, > those passing away during these attain the moon and return. > > "The light and darkness are the two permanent modes of departing > from this material world. By the former a man goes never to return > and by the latter he goes only to come back. > > "The Yogi who knows these two paths is not deluded. Therefore O > Arjuna, establish yourself in the Yoga all the time. > > "Knowing thus, the Yogi goes beyond the rewards attained by the > study of the Vedas, performance of sacrifices, austerities, > charitable works and attains the Supreme Abode. > > > Aum Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > --Sanjay Aggarwal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Sundeep, Maybe you are well aware of all the scriptures, and maybe there are other like you on this group. But I, for one, am not well versed in the scriptures, not even in the Bhagawat Gita, although I have read it innumerable times. Each time I read it, I am struck by more and more wonderous discoveries. As some great personality once said, the scriptures are like the treasures at the bottom of the ocean, and each time you dive in, you find more and more of them! If Bhakti Yoga is the best for you, that is great, so be it. But if someone else is more suited for Karma Yoga, then let them do that. You will remember that the Geeta was the Lord's upadesh to Arjuna, who was the ultimate "action man". For that personality, the best means to moksha is Karma, to be more specific, NISHKAAMA Karma, i.e. "action without desires". That, again, is the gist of the famous verse, "Karmanyeva adhikaarastu". Similarly for many great personalities, the path to moksha was Jyaana Yoga. All of these are different external manifestations of the same internal phenomenon - internal focus on God. Let us each follow the path that is right for us, instead of fighting over what the "best" path is! The definition of "best" varied so much from person to person. If we were trying to reach the top of a hill, I might want to drive around in a car, while you prefer to walk, while someone else might have a helicopter drop them there. Just my opinion. Narasimha, this has nothing to do with astrology so my apologies. We will take this discussion offline if you wish. Thanks, Venkat vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent" <vedicastrostudent> wrote: > Sanjay, > Sorry to be a bit nitpicky here, but I am struggling to find your > opinion here. I personally am well aware of all the quotations you > have included. I am also well aware that the Bhagavad Gita recommends > Bhakti Yoga as the fastest path to emancipation. If you find that > Bhakti is the path for you, you are simply in agreement with the well- > known words, and there is really nothing more to say. You are simply > preaching to the choir again and again - believe me, this group has > absolutely no dearth of people who are well versed in every single > vedic scripture (original, no translations) under the sun - for e.g. > you will be absolutely amazed at the depth of vedic knowledge of a 20 > year old (guys, is he 20 yet - you know who I am talking about) Guru > on this group and who is not even Indian, and he isnt the only non > Indian OR young Guru. There needs to be a disagreement or new > interpretation to start a discussion, which I would love to watch and > learn from, since I am mostly an observer. > > Again, JMHO - just my humble opinion > > Sundeep > > vedic astrology, "sanjaytechnology" > <sanjaytechnology> wrote: > > In response to all the questions regarding Moksha or salvation. > Here > > are some brief explanations. > > > > The Best way to reach God: According to Hindu scriptures the best > > way to attain salvation is to think of God all the time through > > dhyana (contemplation), remembrance and repetition of god's name. > If > > a person trains his mind to remember God all the time, very likely > > at the time of his death he will be able to concentrate his > thoughts > > on God and attain Him. Through mastery of their senses and minds, > > many saints and seers gain complete control on the process of > death > > and develop an intuitive awareness of when and in what manner they > > would depart from this world. When the time comes, leaving > necessary > > instructions to their disciples, they leave their bodies, immersed > > in a state of samadhi or deep trance. In the Bhagavad gita > > Srikrishna declares that at the time death he who concentrates his > > prana between the two eye brows with the strength of his yoga and > is > > engaged in devotion with an unwavering mind he attains the Divine > > and transcendental. > > > > In the eighth chapter named Yoga of Imperishable Brahman in the > > Upanishad of the divine Bhagavad-Gita , the knowledge of the > > Absolute, the yogic scripture, and the debate between Arjuna and > > Lord Krishna. (Read Below) > > > > Yoga of Imperishable Brahman > > Said Arjuna, "O Purushottama, what is that Brahman, What is > Adhyatma > > (inner Self) and what is karma ? What is said to be Adhibhuta (the > > primeval being ) and what is referred to as Adhidaiva (the Supreme > > Deity)? > > > > "O Madhusudhana, who is Adhiyagna (master of sacrifices) in this > > body ? And at the time of the final journey how the practitioners > of > > self-control can realize You?" > > > > Said Lord Supreme, "Indestructible and beyond all is Brahman. Ones > > own self is called Adhyatma. The cause behind the creation of all > > the beings is called karma. > > > > "Adhibhuta is by nature destructible. The Purusha (the Manifested > > Supreme Self) is Adhidaiva. And certainly I am Adhiyagna in the > > body, O best of the embodied. > > > > "At the time of death, he who, remembering Me, leaves the body, > > attains My State. There is no doubt about this. > > > > "O Son of Kunti, whatever a person thinks of at the time of leaving > > his body , he attains that alone remembering it. > > > > "Therefore all the time keep remembering Me and engage in the > > battle. By offering your mind and intelligence to Me, you will > > undoubtedly attain Me. > > > > "Through the practice of Yoga and meditation with the mind not > > moving in other directions, one can attain the Supreme Purusha , O > > Partha. > > > > "Always thinking of the Creator, the Ancient, the Ordainer, One who > > is smaller than the atom, the upholder of all, the unthinkable > > (beyond thought), whose form is of the color of Aditya (golden > > color), and who is beyond the dark inconscient. > > > > "At the time of death, with unwavering mind, engaged in devotion, > by > > the strength of Yoga, establishing the prana (breath) completely > > between the two eye brows, he attains the Divine and transcendental > > Personality of Brahman. > > > > "Now I will explain to you briefly that word which the knowers of > > Vedas call "the Word", which the great sages desire to attain by > > practicing celibacy and renouncing all passions. > > > > "Controlling all the openings of the body, with the mind > established > > in the heart, fixing the prana in the self at the top of the head > > establishing oneself in the Yoga. > > > > "Uttering the monosyllable AUM, which is Brahman, who leaves the > > body remembering Me, he achieves the highest goal. > > > > "To the constantly busy devotee who remembers Me without engaging > > his mind elsewhere , to him I am very easily attainable, O Partha. > > > > "On attaining Me, the great souls are no more subjected to rebirth, > > suffering and transience, for they have attained the highest > > perfection. > > > > "Arjuna, all worlds up to Brahma loka are subject to rebirth. But O > > Kaunteya, on reaching Me there is no rebirth. > > > > "Those who know that the day of Brahman consists of thousands of > > Yugas and similarly His nights also, are the knowers of day and > > night. > > > > "From the unmanifest are manifested all the beings at the beginning > > of the day and are dissolved again into the unmanifest upon the > > arrival of the night. > > > > "All the living entities O Partha, after taking birth again and > > again, are automatically dissolved as the night arrives and are > > manifested again upon the arrival of the day. > > > > "But beyond the state of unmanifest there is yet another state of > > unmanifest which is eternal and which can never be annihilated even > > when all entities are annihilated > > > > "It is declared as the unmanifest and undiminishing, which is also > > known as the ultimate goal by attaining which one) never returns. > > That is My Supreme Abode. > > > > "O Partha, that Supreme Being in whom are situated all the elements > > and by whom all this is pervaded can be attained only through > bhakti > > (devotion). > > > > "O eminent among the Bharatas, now I will explain to you the time > > when the Yogis depart but never to return, and also the time when > > they depart but come back again. > > > > "Fire, light, day time, the waxing period of the moon, uttarayanam > > (the summer solstice) - those who depart then, knowers of Brahman, > > go to the Absolute straight away. > > > > "Smoke, night, the waning period of the moon, the winter solstice, > > those passing away during these attain the moon and return. > > > > "The light and darkness are the two permanent modes of departing > > from this material world. By the former a man goes never to return > > and by the latter he goes only to come back. > > > > "The Yogi who knows these two paths is not deluded. Therefore O > > Arjuna, establish yourself in the Yoga all the time. > > > > "Knowing thus, the Yogi goes beyond the rewards attained by the > > study of the Vedas, performance of sacrifices, austerities, > > charitable works and attains the Supreme Abode. > > > > > > Aum Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 I agree with Venkat whole heartedly. I cannot lay more emphasis on this anymore: "Hinduism gives immense freedom to each individual to choose whatever path he or she wants to choose. It does not believe in super imposition of faith from outside, nor changing of ones faith to another because it is more attractive. Each has to pursue the path of God according to his or her inner nature and evolution. Hinduism says, "Follow your own self, live according to your own dharma and discover you own truth that is in harmony with yourself." And by the way an understanding of Astrology and its concepts reveals nothing but the Fudamental Truth, which is realization of the self. So all of this is the entire essence. What use is it to find out if you are going to make money or not, or get married or not, if you do not understand the whole essence of Astrology which is nothing but "Self Realization". Kind Regards to all. --Sanjay vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry" <venkatarama_sastry> wrote: > Sundeep, > > Maybe you are well aware of all the scriptures, and maybe there are > other like you on this group. But I, for one, am not well versed in > the scriptures, not even in the Bhagawat Gita, although I have read > it innumerable times. Each time I read it, I am struck by more and > more wonderous discoveries. As some great personality once said, the > scriptures are like the treasures at the bottom of the ocean, and > each time you dive in, you find more and more of them! > > If Bhakti Yoga is the best for you, that is great, so be it. But if > someone else is more suited for Karma Yoga, then let them do that. > You will remember that the Geeta was the Lord's upadesh to Arjuna, > who was the ultimate "action man". For that personality, the best > means to moksha is Karma, to be more specific, NISHKAAMA Karma, > i.e. "action without desires". That, again, is the gist of the > famous verse, "Karmanyeva adhikaarastu". Similarly for many great > personalities, the path to moksha was Jyaana Yoga. All of these are > different external manifestations of the same internal phenomenon - > internal focus on God. > > Let us each follow the path that is right for us, instead of > fighting over what the "best" path is! The definition of "best" > varied so much from person to person. If we were trying to reach the > top of a hill, I might want to drive around in a car, while you > prefer to walk, while someone else might have a helicopter drop them > there. Just my opinion. > > Narasimha, this has nothing to do with astrology so my apologies. We > will take this discussion offline if you wish. > > Thanks, > Venkat > > vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent" > <vedicastrostudent> wrote: > > Sanjay, > > Sorry to be a bit nitpicky here, but I am struggling to find your > > opinion here. I personally am well aware of all the quotations you > > have included. I am also well aware that the Bhagavad Gita > recommends > > Bhakti Yoga as the fastest path to emancipation. If you find that > > Bhakti is the path for you, you are simply in agreement with the > well- > > known words, and there is really nothing more to say. You are > simply > > preaching to the choir again and again - believe me, this group > has > > absolutely no dearth of people who are well versed in every single > > vedic scripture (original, no translations) under the sun - for > e.g. > > you will be absolutely amazed at the depth of vedic knowledge of a > 20 > > year old (guys, is he 20 yet - you know who I am talking about) > Guru > > on this group and who is not even Indian, and he isnt the only non > > Indian OR young Guru. There needs to be a disagreement or new > > interpretation to start a discussion, which I would love to watch > and > > learn from, since I am mostly an observer. > > > > Again, JMHO - just my humble opinion > > > > Sundeep > > > > vedic astrology, "sanjaytechnology" > > <sanjaytechnology> wrote: > > > In response to all the questions regarding Moksha or salvation. > > Here > > > are some brief explanations. > > > > > > The Best way to reach God: According to Hindu scriptures the > best > > > way to attain salvation is to think of God all the time through > > > dhyana (contemplation), remembrance and repetition of god's > name. > > If > > > a person trains his mind to remember God all the time, very > likely > > > at the time of his death he will be able to concentrate his > > thoughts > > > on God and attain Him. Through mastery of their senses and > minds, > > > many saints and seers gain complete control on the process of > > death > > > and develop an intuitive awareness of when and in what manner > they > > > would depart from this world. When the time comes, leaving > > necessary > > > instructions to their disciples, they leave their bodies, > immersed > > > in a state of samadhi or deep trance. In the Bhagavad gita > > > Srikrishna declares that at the time death he who concentrates > his > > > prana between the two eye brows with the strength of his yoga > and > > is > > > engaged in devotion with an unwavering mind he attains the > Divine > > > and transcendental. > > > > > > In the eighth chapter named Yoga of Imperishable Brahman in the > > > Upanishad of the divine Bhagavad-Gita , the knowledge of the > > > Absolute, the yogic scripture, and the debate between Arjuna and > > > Lord Krishna. (Read Below) > > > > > > Yoga of Imperishable Brahman > > > Said Arjuna, "O Purushottama, what is that Brahman, What is > > Adhyatma > > > (inner Self) and what is karma ? What is said to be Adhibhuta > (the > > > primeval being ) and what is referred to as Adhidaiva (the > Supreme > > > Deity)? > > > > > > "O Madhusudhana, who is Adhiyagna (master of sacrifices) in this > > > body ? And at the time of the final journey how the > practitioners > > of > > > self-control can realize You?" > > > > > > Said Lord Supreme, "Indestructible and beyond all is Brahman. > Ones > > > own self is called Adhyatma. The cause behind the creation of > all > > > the beings is called karma. > > > > > > "Adhibhuta is by nature destructible. The Purusha (the > Manifested > > > Supreme Self) is Adhidaiva. And certainly I am Adhiyagna in the > > > body, O best of the embodied. > > > > > > "At the time of death, he who, remembering Me, leaves the body, > > > attains My State. There is no doubt about this. > > > > > > "O Son of Kunti, whatever a person thinks of at the time of > leaving > > > his body , he attains that alone remembering it. > > > > > > "Therefore all the time keep remembering Me and engage in the > > > battle. By offering your mind and intelligence to Me, you will > > > undoubtedly attain Me. > > > > > > "Through the practice of Yoga and meditation with the mind not > > > moving in other directions, one can attain the Supreme Purusha , > O > > > Partha. > > > > > > "Always thinking of the Creator, the Ancient, the Ordainer, One > who > > > is smaller than the atom, the upholder of all, the unthinkable > > > (beyond thought), whose form is of the color of Aditya (golden > > > color), and who is beyond the dark inconscient. > > > > > > "At the time of death, with unwavering mind, engaged in > devotion, > > by > > > the strength of Yoga, establishing the prana (breath) completely > > > between the two eye brows, he attains the Divine and > transcendental > > > Personality of Brahman. > > > > > > "Now I will explain to you briefly that word which the knowers > of > > > Vedas call "the Word", which the great sages desire to attain by > > > practicing celibacy and renouncing all passions. > > > > > > "Controlling all the openings of the body, with the mind > > established > > > in the heart, fixing the prana in the self at the top of the > head > > > establishing oneself in the Yoga. > > > > > > "Uttering the monosyllable AUM, which is Brahman, who leaves the > > > body remembering Me, he achieves the highest goal. > > > > > > "To the constantly busy devotee who remembers Me without > engaging > > > his mind elsewhere , to him I am very easily attainable, O > Partha. > > > > > > "On attaining Me, the great souls are no more subjected to > rebirth, > > > suffering and transience, for they have attained the highest > > > perfection. > > > > > > "Arjuna, all worlds up to Brahma loka are subject to rebirth. > But O > > > Kaunteya, on reaching Me there is no rebirth. > > > > > > "Those who know that the day of Brahman consists of thousands of > > > Yugas and similarly His nights also, are the knowers of day and > > > night. > > > > > > "From the unmanifest are manifested all the beings at the > beginning > > > of the day and are dissolved again into the unmanifest upon the > > > arrival of the night. > > > > > > "All the living entities O Partha, after taking birth again and > > > again, are automatically dissolved as the night arrives and are > > > manifested again upon the arrival of the day. > > > > > > "But beyond the state of unmanifest there is yet another state > of > > > unmanifest which is eternal and which can never be annihilated > even > > > when all entities are annihilated > > > > > > "It is declared as the unmanifest and undiminishing, which is > also > > > known as the ultimate goal by attaining which one) never > returns. > > > That is My Supreme Abode. > > > > > > "O Partha, that Supreme Being in whom are situated all the > elements > > > and by whom all this is pervaded can be attained only through > > bhakti > > > (devotion). > > > > > > "O eminent among the Bharatas, now I will explain to you the > time > > > when the Yogis depart but never to return, and also the time > when > > > they depart but come back again. > > > > > > "Fire, light, day time, the waxing period of the moon, > uttarayanam > > > (the summer solstice) - those who depart then, knowers of > Brahman, > > > go to the Absolute straight away. > > > > > > "Smoke, night, the waning period of the moon, the winter > solstice, > > > those passing away during these attain the moon and return. > > > > > > "The light and darkness are the two permanent modes of departing > > > from this material world. By the former a man goes never to > return > > > and by the latter he goes only to come back. > > > > > > "The Yogi who knows these two paths is not deluded. Therefore O > > > Arjuna, establish yourself in the Yoga all the time. > > > > > > "Knowing thus, the Yogi goes beyond the rewards attained by the > > > study of the Vedas, performance of sacrifices, austerities, > > > charitable works and attains the Supreme Abode. > > > > > > > > > Aum Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Venkat, Again being a little nitpicky here. You seem to have misinterpreted me left and right: 1) Can you point out where exactly I said *I* am well aware of all the scriptures? I only said I am aware of all the quotations in the post - since they are literal translations of the verses in the Bhagavad Gita - available all over the web. 2) Can you also point out where exactly I said Bhakti Yoga is best for *me*? I only said that the Bhagavad Gita says that it is the fastest way to emancipation. Does it not? Not "best" - "best" is subjective as you have rightly observed. But fastest. 3) Can you also point out where I said that Karma Yoga is not to be followed? I only pointed out the Bhakti Yoga is the fastest, *according to the Bhagavad Gita*. My own personal opinion, or even *my* interpretation of the Bhagavad Gita's opinion, on the "right or wrong way" to obtain Moksha is not there anywhere in the post. Look again, can you find it? You are arguing about about something you have projected on me, something that was never said or even intended. Even the original poster (Sanjay) has specifically highlighted the Bhakti Yoga path - not really discredited or discouraged anyone from any other path, like you seem to have concluded that I have done. I am still unaware of disagreements, or new facts. Which is why I originally posted that to me Sanjay's post was merely informational for a generally well informed bunch. No disrespect or discredit intended anywhere simply a desire to see better used bandwidth. That too is only a hopefully not harsh opinion - only Narasimha has the right to judge. Sundeep vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry" <venkatarama_sastry> wrote: > Sundeep, > > Maybe you are well aware of all the scriptures, and maybe there are > other like you on this group. But I, for one, am not well versed in > the scriptures, not even in the Bhagawat Gita, although I have read > it innumerable times. Each time I read it, I am struck by more and > more wonderous discoveries. As some great personality once said, the > scriptures are like the treasures at the bottom of the ocean, and > each time you dive in, you find more and more of them! > > If Bhakti Yoga is the best for you, that is great, so be it. But if > someone else is more suited for Karma Yoga, then let them do that. > You will remember that the Geeta was the Lord's upadesh to Arjuna, > who was the ultimate "action man". For that personality, the best > means to moksha is Karma, to be more specific, NISHKAAMA Karma, > i.e. "action without desires". That, again, is the gist of the > famous verse, "Karmanyeva adhikaarastu". Similarly for many great > personalities, the path to moksha was Jyaana Yoga. All of these are > different external manifestations of the same internal phenomenon - > internal focus on God. > > Let us each follow the path that is right for us, instead of > fighting over what the "best" path is! The definition of "best" > varied so much from person to person. If we were trying to reach the > top of a hill, I might want to drive around in a car, while you > prefer to walk, while someone else might have a helicopter drop them > there. Just my opinion. > > Narasimha, this has nothing to do with astrology so my apologies. We > will take this discussion offline if you wish. > > Thanks, > Venkat > > vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent" > <vedicastrostudent> wrote: > > Sanjay, > > Sorry to be a bit nitpicky here, but I am struggling to find your > > opinion here. I personally am well aware of all the quotations you > > have included. I am also well aware that the Bhagavad Gita > recommends > > Bhakti Yoga as the fastest path to emancipation. If you find that > > Bhakti is the path for you, you are simply in agreement with the > well- > > known words, and there is really nothing more to say. You are > simply > > preaching to the choir again and again - believe me, this group > has > > absolutely no dearth of people who are well versed in every single > > vedic scripture (original, no translations) under the sun - for > e.g. > > you will be absolutely amazed at the depth of vedic knowledge of a > 20 > > year old (guys, is he 20 yet - you know who I am talking about) > Guru > > on this group and who is not even Indian, and he isnt the only non > > Indian OR young Guru. There needs to be a disagreement or new > > interpretation to start a discussion, which I would love to watch > and > > learn from, since I am mostly an observer. > > > > Again, JMHO - just my humble opinion > > > > Sundeep > > > > vedic astrology, "sanjaytechnology" > > <sanjaytechnology> wrote: > > > In response to all the questions regarding Moksha or salvation. > > Here > > > are some brief explanations. > > > > > > The Best way to reach God: According to Hindu scriptures the > best > > > way to attain salvation is to think of God all the time through > > > dhyana (contemplation), remembrance and repetition of god's > name. > > If > > > a person trains his mind to remember God all the time, very > likely > > > at the time of his death he will be able to concentrate his > > thoughts > > > on God and attain Him. Through mastery of their senses and > minds, > > > many saints and seers gain complete control on the process of > > death > > > and develop an intuitive awareness of when and in what manner > they > > > would depart from this world. When the time comes, leaving > > necessary > > > instructions to their disciples, they leave their bodies, > immersed > > > in a state of samadhi or deep trance. In the Bhagavad gita > > > Srikrishna declares that at the time death he who concentrates > his > > > prana between the two eye brows with the strength of his yoga > and > > is > > > engaged in devotion with an unwavering mind he attains the > Divine > > > and transcendental. > > > > > > In the eighth chapter named Yoga of Imperishable Brahman in the > > > Upanishad of the divine Bhagavad-Gita , the knowledge of the > > > Absolute, the yogic scripture, and the debate between Arjuna and > > > Lord Krishna. (Read Below) > > > > > > Yoga of Imperishable Brahman > > > Said Arjuna, "O Purushottama, what is that Brahman, What is > > Adhyatma > > > (inner Self) and what is karma ? What is said to be Adhibhuta > (the > > > primeval being ) and what is referred to as Adhidaiva (the > Supreme > > > Deity)? > > > > > > "O Madhusudhana, who is Adhiyagna (master of sacrifices) in this > > > body ? And at the time of the final journey how the > practitioners > > of > > > self-control can realize You?" > > > > > > Said Lord Supreme, "Indestructible and beyond all is Brahman. > Ones > > > own self is called Adhyatma. The cause behind the creation of > all > > > the beings is called karma. > > > > > > "Adhibhuta is by nature destructible. The Purusha (the > Manifested > > > Supreme Self) is Adhidaiva. And certainly I am Adhiyagna in the > > > body, O best of the embodied. > > > > > > "At the time of death, he who, remembering Me, leaves the body, > > > attains My State. There is no doubt about this. > > > > > > "O Son of Kunti, whatever a person thinks of at the time of > leaving > > > his body , he attains that alone remembering it. > > > > > > "Therefore all the time keep remembering Me and engage in the > > > battle. By offering your mind and intelligence to Me, you will > > > undoubtedly attain Me. > > > > > > "Through the practice of Yoga and meditation with the mind not > > > moving in other directions, one can attain the Supreme Purusha , > O > > > Partha. > > > > > > "Always thinking of the Creator, the Ancient, the Ordainer, One > who > > > is smaller than the atom, the upholder of all, the unthinkable > > > (beyond thought), whose form is of the color of Aditya (golden > > > color), and who is beyond the dark inconscient. > > > > > > "At the time of death, with unwavering mind, engaged in > devotion, > > by > > > the strength of Yoga, establishing the prana (breath) completely > > > between the two eye brows, he attains the Divine and > transcendental > > > Personality of Brahman. > > > > > > "Now I will explain to you briefly that word which the knowers > of > > > Vedas call "the Word", which the great sages desire to attain by > > > practicing celibacy and renouncing all passions. > > > > > > "Controlling all the openings of the body, with the mind > > established > > > in the heart, fixing the prana in the self at the top of the > head > > > establishing oneself in the Yoga. > > > > > > "Uttering the monosyllable AUM, which is Brahman, who leaves the > > > body remembering Me, he achieves the highest goal. > > > > > > "To the constantly busy devotee who remembers Me without > engaging > > > his mind elsewhere , to him I am very easily attainable, O > Partha. > > > > > > "On attaining Me, the great souls are no more subjected to > rebirth, > > > suffering and transience, for they have attained the highest > > > perfection. > > > > > > "Arjuna, all worlds up to Brahma loka are subject to rebirth. > But O > > > Kaunteya, on reaching Me there is no rebirth. > > > > > > "Those who know that the day of Brahman consists of thousands of > > > Yugas and similarly His nights also, are the knowers of day and > > > night. > > > > > > "From the unmanifest are manifested all the beings at the > beginning > > > of the day and are dissolved again into the unmanifest upon the > > > arrival of the night. > > > > > > "All the living entities O Partha, after taking birth again and > > > again, are automatically dissolved as the night arrives and are > > > manifested again upon the arrival of the day. > > > > > > "But beyond the state of unmanifest there is yet another state > of > > > unmanifest which is eternal and which can never be annihilated > even > > > when all entities are annihilated > > > > > > "It is declared as the unmanifest and undiminishing, which is > also > > > known as the ultimate goal by attaining which one) never > returns. > > > That is My Supreme Abode. > > > > > > "O Partha, that Supreme Being in whom are situated all the > elements > > > and by whom all this is pervaded can be attained only through > > bhakti > > > (devotion). > > > > > > "O eminent among the Bharatas, now I will explain to you the > time > > > when the Yogis depart but never to return, and also the time > when > > > they depart but come back again. > > > > > > "Fire, light, day time, the waxing period of the moon, > uttarayanam > > > (the summer solstice) - those who depart then, knowers of > Brahman, > > > go to the Absolute straight away. > > > > > > "Smoke, night, the waning period of the moon, the winter > solstice, > > > those passing away during these attain the moon and return. > > > > > > "The light and darkness are the two permanent modes of departing > > > from this material world. By the former a man goes never to > return > > > and by the latter he goes only to come back. > > > > > > "The Yogi who knows these two paths is not deluded. Therefore O > > > Arjuna, establish yourself in the Yoga all the time. > > > > > > "Knowing thus, the Yogi goes beyond the rewards attained by the > > > study of the Vedas, performance of sacrifices, austerities, > > > charitable works and attains the Supreme Abode. > > > > > > > > > Aum Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Sundeep, I'm sorry if I have misinterpreted you. That was not my intention. When you said that you were well aware of the quotations in Sanjay's posting, and went on to talk about people on this group that were well-versed in the scriptures, I wanted to point out that there were also people like me that are still beginners, and appreciate the opportunity to see such quotations. You are right, you did not say in this posting that Karma is not to be followed. In another posting from you, message 37584 on this list, you made an excellent argument for why good karma does not lead to moksha, while bhakti and meditation does. My response was in part, directed towards that posting. I do agree with you in the sense that good Karma *alone* is not sufficient to grant you Moksha, and you need the removal of ego as you so rightly observed. But good Karma *leads* you to Moksha, by helping that process of removing the ego. We all start out doing good Karma in hope of the rewards, but somewhere along the line, we (hopefully) will do good just for the sake of doing good, and dedicate that to the Lord. And similarly, Bhakti alon does not grant you Moksha either - most of the time, my prayers, I am ashamed to say, are for selfish reasons such as my family's well being etc. But hopefully the 20% of the time that I spend praying for the sheer joy of praying, and not for any rewards, will increase to 50% with constant discipline. So also meditation, when I do perform it, it is more for relaxation than for the Eternal Bliss, but with the grace of God and with constant discipline, maybe that will happen. Anyway, if I hurt your feelings in any way, I am sorry. That was not my intention. I was merely pointing out that Bhakti is great, but so are the other paths. From your present email, it seems like we are agreeing with each other. Thanks, Venkat vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent" <vedicastrostudent> wrote: > Venkat, > Again being a little nitpicky here. You seem to have misinterpreted > me left and right: > 1) Can you point out where exactly I said *I* am well aware of all > the scriptures? I only said I am aware of all the quotations in the > post - since they are literal translations of the verses in the > Bhagavad Gita - available all over the web. > 2) Can you also point out where exactly I said Bhakti Yoga is best > for *me*? I only said that the Bhagavad Gita says that it is the > fastest way to emancipation. Does it not? Not "best" - "best" is > subjective as you have rightly observed. But fastest. > 3) Can you also point out where I said that Karma Yoga is not to be > followed? I only pointed out the Bhakti Yoga is the fastest, > *according to the Bhagavad Gita*. > My own personal opinion, or even *my* interpretation of the Bhagavad > Gita's opinion, on the "right or wrong way" to obtain Moksha is not > there anywhere in the post. Look again, can you find it? You are > arguing about about something you have projected on me, something > that was never said or even intended. > > Even the original poster (Sanjay) has specifically highlighted the > Bhakti Yoga path - not really discredited or discouraged anyone from > any other path, like you seem to have concluded that I have done. I > am still unaware of disagreements, or new facts. Which is why I > originally posted that to me Sanjay's post was merely informational > for a generally well informed bunch. No disrespect or discredit > intended anywhere simply a desire to see better used bandwidth. That > too is only a hopefully not harsh opinion - only Narasimha has the > right to judge. > > Sundeep > > > vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry" > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote: > > Sundeep, > > > > Maybe you are well aware of all the scriptures, and maybe there are > > other like you on this group. But I, for one, am not well versed in > > the scriptures, not even in the Bhagawat Gita, although I have read > > it innumerable times. Each time I read it, I am struck by more and > > more wonderous discoveries. As some great personality once said, > the > > scriptures are like the treasures at the bottom of the ocean, and > > each time you dive in, you find more and more of them! > > > > If Bhakti Yoga is the best for you, that is great, so be it. But if > > someone else is more suited for Karma Yoga, then let them do that. > > You will remember that the Geeta was the Lord's upadesh to Arjuna, > > who was the ultimate "action man". For that personality, the best > > means to moksha is Karma, to be more specific, NISHKAAMA Karma, > > i.e. "action without desires". That, again, is the gist of the > > famous verse, "Karmanyeva adhikaarastu". Similarly for many great > > personalities, the path to moksha was Jyaana Yoga. All of these are > > different external manifestations of the same internal phenomenon - > > internal focus on God. > > > > Let us each follow the path that is right for us, instead of > > fighting over what the "best" path is! The definition of "best" > > varied so much from person to person. If we were trying to reach > the > > top of a hill, I might want to drive around in a car, while you > > prefer to walk, while someone else might have a helicopter drop > them > > there. Just my opinion. > > > > Narasimha, this has nothing to do with astrology so my apologies. > We > > will take this discussion offline if you wish. > > > > Thanks, > > Venkat > > > > vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent" > > <vedicastrostudent> wrote: > > > Sanjay, > > > Sorry to be a bit nitpicky here, but I am struggling to find > your > > > opinion here. I personally am well aware of all the quotations > you > > > have included. I am also well aware that the Bhagavad Gita > > recommends > > > Bhakti Yoga as the fastest path to emancipation. If you find that > > > Bhakti is the path for you, you are simply in agreement with the > > well- > > > known words, and there is really nothing more to say. You are > > simply > > > preaching to the choir again and again - believe me, this group > > has > > > absolutely no dearth of people who are well versed in every > single > > > vedic scripture (original, no translations) under the sun - for > > e.g. > > > you will be absolutely amazed at the depth of vedic knowledge of > a > > 20 > > > year old (guys, is he 20 yet - you know who I am talking about) > > Guru > > > on this group and who is not even Indian, and he isnt the only > non > > > Indian OR young Guru. There needs to be a disagreement or new > > > interpretation to start a discussion, which I would love to watch > > and > > > learn from, since I am mostly an observer. > > > > > > Again, JMHO - just my humble opinion > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > vedic astrology, "sanjaytechnology" > > > <sanjaytechnology> wrote: > > > > In response to all the questions regarding Moksha or salvation. > > > Here > > > > are some brief explanations. > > > > > > > > The Best way to reach God: According to Hindu scriptures the > > best > > > > way to attain salvation is to think of God all the time through > > > > dhyana (contemplation), remembrance and repetition of god's > > name. > > > If > > > > a person trains his mind to remember God all the time, very > > likely > > > > at the time of his death he will be able to concentrate his > > > thoughts > > > > on God and attain Him. Through mastery of their senses and > > minds, > > > > many saints and seers gain complete control on the process of > > > death > > > > and develop an intuitive awareness of when and in what manner > > they > > > > would depart from this world. When the time comes, leaving > > > necessary > > > > instructions to their disciples, they leave their bodies, > > immersed > > > > in a state of samadhi or deep trance. In the Bhagavad gita > > > > Srikrishna declares that at the time death he who concentrates > > his > > > > prana between the two eye brows with the strength of his yoga > > and > > > is > > > > engaged in devotion with an unwavering mind he attains the > > Divine > > > > and transcendental. > > > > > > > > In the eighth chapter named Yoga of Imperishable Brahman in > the > > > > Upanishad of the divine Bhagavad-Gita , the knowledge of the > > > > Absolute, the yogic scripture, and the debate between Arjuna > and > > > > Lord Krishna. (Read Below) > > > > > > > > Yoga of Imperishable Brahman > > > > Said Arjuna, "O Purushottama, what is that Brahman, What is > > > Adhyatma > > > > (inner Self) and what is karma ? What is said to be Adhibhuta > > (the > > > > primeval being ) and what is referred to as Adhidaiva (the > > Supreme > > > > Deity)? > > > > > > > > "O Madhusudhana, who is Adhiyagna (master of sacrifices) in > this > > > > body ? And at the time of the final journey how the > > practitioners > > > of > > > > self-control can realize You?" > > > > > > > > Said Lord Supreme, "Indestructible and beyond all is Brahman. > > Ones > > > > own self is called Adhyatma. The cause behind the creation of > > all > > > > the beings is called karma. > > > > > > > > "Adhibhuta is by nature destructible. The Purusha (the > > Manifested > > > > Supreme Self) is Adhidaiva. And certainly I am Adhiyagna in the > > > > body, O best of the embodied. > > > > > > > > "At the time of death, he who, remembering Me, leaves the body, > > > > attains My State. There is no doubt about this. > > > > > > > > "O Son of Kunti, whatever a person thinks of at the time of > > leaving > > > > his body , he attains that alone remembering it. > > > > > > > > "Therefore all the time keep remembering Me and engage in the > > > > battle. By offering your mind and intelligence to Me, you will > > > > undoubtedly attain Me. > > > > > > > > "Through the practice of Yoga and meditation with the mind not > > > > moving in other directions, one can attain the Supreme > Purusha , > > O > > > > Partha. > > > > > > > > "Always thinking of the Creator, the Ancient, the Ordainer, One > > who > > > > is smaller than the atom, the upholder of all, the unthinkable > > > > (beyond thought), whose form is of the color of Aditya (golden > > > > color), and who is beyond the dark inconscient. > > > > > > > > "At the time of death, with unwavering mind, engaged in > > devotion, > > > by > > > > the strength of Yoga, establishing the prana (breath) > completely > > > > between the two eye brows, he attains the Divine and > > transcendental > > > > Personality of Brahman. > > > > > > > > "Now I will explain to you briefly that word which the knowers > > of > > > > Vedas call "the Word", which the great sages desire to attain > by > > > > practicing celibacy and renouncing all passions. > > > > > > > > "Controlling all the openings of the body, with the mind > > > established > > > > in the heart, fixing the prana in the self at the top of the > > head > > > > establishing oneself in the Yoga. > > > > > > > > "Uttering the monosyllable AUM, which is Brahman, who leaves > the > > > > body remembering Me, he achieves the highest goal. > > > > > > > > "To the constantly busy devotee who remembers Me without > > engaging > > > > his mind elsewhere , to him I am very easily attainable, O > > Partha. > > > > > > > > "On attaining Me, the great souls are no more subjected to > > rebirth, > > > > suffering and transience, for they have attained the highest > > > > perfection. > > > > > > > > "Arjuna, all worlds up to Brahma loka are subject to rebirth. > > But O > > > > Kaunteya, on reaching Me there is no rebirth. > > > > > > > > "Those who know that the day of Brahman consists of thousands > of > > > > Yugas and similarly His nights also, are the knowers of day and > > > > night. > > > > > > > > "From the unmanifest are manifested all the beings at the > > beginning > > > > of the day and are dissolved again into the unmanifest upon the > > > > arrival of the night. > > > > > > > > "All the living entities O Partha, after taking birth again and > > > > again, are automatically dissolved as the night arrives and are > > > > manifested again upon the arrival of the day. > > > > > > > > "But beyond the state of unmanifest there is yet another state > > of > > > > unmanifest which is eternal and which can never be annihilated > > even > > > > when all entities are annihilated > > > > > > > > "It is declared as the unmanifest and undiminishing, which is > > also > > > > known as the ultimate goal by attaining which one) never > > returns. > > > > That is My Supreme Abode. > > > > > > > > "O Partha, that Supreme Being in whom are situated all the > > elements > > > > and by whom all this is pervaded can be attained only through > > > bhakti > > > > (devotion). > > > > > > > > "O eminent among the Bharatas, now I will explain to you the > > time > > > > when the Yogis depart but never to return, and also the time > > when > > > > they depart but come back again. > > > > > > > > "Fire, light, day time, the waxing period of the moon, > > uttarayanam > > > > (the summer solstice) - those who depart then, knowers of > > Brahman, > > > > go to the Absolute straight away. > > > > > > > > "Smoke, night, the waning period of the moon, the winter > > solstice, > > > > those passing away during these attain the moon and return. > > > > > > > > "The light and darkness are the two permanent modes of > departing > > > > from this material world. By the former a man goes never to > > return > > > > and by the latter he goes only to come back. > > > > > > > > "The Yogi who knows these two paths is not deluded. Therefore O > > > > Arjuna, establish yourself in the Yoga all the time. > > > > > > > > "Knowing thus, the Yogi goes beyond the rewards attained by the > > > > study of the Vedas, performance of sacrifices, austerities, > > > > charitable works and attains the Supreme Abode. > > > > > > > > > > > > Aum Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Venkat, I am not offended at all. I was only clarifying. Also, about the Karma Yoga thing, I think there is a real discussion there for all of us, because at least I may have misunderstood some things. In the post in which I contradicted Mukund who said that we should do good karma essentially to get us to Moksha, what I meant to say is that Karma Yoga does not mean doing good karma. This is what I used to think and someone on this list itself corrected me a long time ago. I think the example I used was "Mother Teresa was a Karma Yogi because she did good karma". However, I was corrected by some knowledgeable person here that said Karma Yoga is not doing good karma but detachment from good AND bad karma. It is a different thing that when you get detached the only thing you do is good. But the key to Karma yoga remains the detachment. This is easy to say but what does it really mean in the final and physical sense of everyday life. I eventually understood this in the context of Carl Jung's interpretations of the psychology of an enlightened person. The psychology is as I said - the libido (psychic energy, impetus to action) has been removed completely from the ego and senses, and the impetus to action is derived from within. That is exactly how Karma Yoga, Bhakti Yoga and Sankhya Yoga are the same. You become a Karma Yogi by explicitly detaching yourself from the fruits of labor (be they good or bad), and thereby making your ego extinct (no rewards to the ego). You become a Bhakti Yogi by concentrating only on God, and thereby making your ego extinct. You become a Sankhya Yogi by investigating nature and figuring out that you are no different from anyone or anything else and there is no permanent "you" anyway, thereby making your ego extinct. Whatever path you choose, the final effect of the path in the material universe must be to rob your ego of all it's energy and make it disappear. Enlightenment automatically results, and it has only ONE physical manifestation - an egoless individual whose libido flows from within. Sundeep vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry" <venkatarama_sastry> wrote: > Sundeep, > > I'm sorry if I have misinterpreted you. That was not my intention. > When you said that you were well aware of the quotations in Sanjay's > posting, and went on to talk about people on this group that were > well-versed in the scriptures, I wanted to point out that there were > also people like me that are still beginners, and appreciate the > opportunity to see such quotations. > > You are right, you did not say in this posting that Karma is not to > be followed. In another posting from you, message 37584 on this > list, you made an excellent argument for why good karma does not > lead to moksha, while bhakti and meditation does. My response was in > part, directed towards that posting. I do agree with you in the > sense that good Karma *alone* is not sufficient to grant you Moksha, > and you need the removal of ego as you so rightly observed. But good > Karma *leads* you to Moksha, by helping that process of removing the > ego. We all start out doing good Karma in hope of the rewards, but > somewhere along the line, we (hopefully) will do good just for the > sake of doing good, and dedicate that to the Lord. And similarly, > Bhakti alon does not grant you Moksha either - most of the time, my > prayers, I am ashamed to say, are for selfish reasons such as my > family's well being etc. But hopefully the 20% of the time that I > spend praying for the sheer joy of praying, and not for any rewards, > will increase to 50% with constant discipline. So also meditation, > when I do perform it, it is more for relaxation than for the Eternal > Bliss, but with the grace of God and with constant discipline, maybe > that will happen. > > Anyway, if I hurt your feelings in any way, I am sorry. That was not > my intention. I was merely pointing out that Bhakti is great, but so > are the other paths. From your present email, it seems like we are > agreeing with each other. > > Thanks, > Venkat > > > vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent" > <vedicastrostudent> wrote: > > Venkat, > > Again being a little nitpicky here. You seem to have > misinterpreted > > me left and right: > > 1) Can you point out where exactly I said *I* am well aware of all > > the scriptures? I only said I am aware of all the quotations in > the > > post - since they are literal translations of the verses in the > > Bhagavad Gita - available all over the web. > > 2) Can you also point out where exactly I said Bhakti Yoga is best > > for *me*? I only said that the Bhagavad Gita says that it is the > > fastest way to emancipation. Does it not? Not "best" - "best" is > > subjective as you have rightly observed. But fastest. > > 3) Can you also point out where I said that Karma Yoga is not to > be > > followed? I only pointed out the Bhakti Yoga is the fastest, > > *according to the Bhagavad Gita*. > > My own personal opinion, or even *my* interpretation of the > Bhagavad > > Gita's opinion, on the "right or wrong way" to obtain Moksha is > not > > there anywhere in the post. Look again, can you find it? You are > > arguing about about something you have projected on me, something > > that was never said or even intended. > > > > Even the original poster (Sanjay) has specifically highlighted the > > Bhakti Yoga path - not really discredited or discouraged anyone > from > > any other path, like you seem to have concluded that I have done. > I > > am still unaware of disagreements, or new facts. Which is why I > > originally posted that to me Sanjay's post was merely > informational > > for a generally well informed bunch. No disrespect or discredit > > intended anywhere simply a desire to see better used bandwidth. > That > > too is only a hopefully not harsh opinion - only Narasimha has the > > right to judge. > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry" > > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote: > > > Sundeep, > > > > > > Maybe you are well aware of all the scriptures, and maybe there > are > > > other like you on this group. But I, for one, am not well versed > in > > > the scriptures, not even in the Bhagawat Gita, although I have > read > > > it innumerable times. Each time I read it, I am struck by more > and > > > more wonderous discoveries. As some great personality once said, > > the > > > scriptures are like the treasures at the bottom of the ocean, > and > > > each time you dive in, you find more and more of them! > > > > > > If Bhakti Yoga is the best for you, that is great, so be it. But > if > > > someone else is more suited for Karma Yoga, then let them do > that. > > > You will remember that the Geeta was the Lord's upadesh to > Arjuna, > > > who was the ultimate "action man". For that personality, the > best > > > means to moksha is Karma, to be more specific, NISHKAAMA Karma, > > > i.e. "action without desires". That, again, is the gist of the > > > famous verse, "Karmanyeva adhikaarastu". Similarly for many > great > > > personalities, the path to moksha was Jyaana Yoga. All of these > are > > > different external manifestations of the same internal > phenomenon - > > > internal focus on God. > > > > > > Let us each follow the path that is right for us, instead of > > > fighting over what the "best" path is! The definition of "best" > > > varied so much from person to person. If we were trying to reach > > the > > > top of a hill, I might want to drive around in a car, while you > > > prefer to walk, while someone else might have a helicopter drop > > them > > > there. Just my opinion. > > > > > > Narasimha, this has nothing to do with astrology so my > apologies. > > We > > > will take this discussion offline if you wish. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Venkat > > > > > > vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent" > > > <vedicastrostudent> wrote: > > > > Sanjay, > > > > Sorry to be a bit nitpicky here, but I am struggling to find > > your > > > > opinion here. I personally am well aware of all the quotations > > you > > > > have included. I am also well aware that the Bhagavad Gita > > > recommends > > > > Bhakti Yoga as the fastest path to emancipation. If you find > that > > > > Bhakti is the path for you, you are simply in agreement with > the > > > well- > > > > known words, and there is really nothing more to say. You are > > > simply > > > > preaching to the choir again and again - believe me, this > group > > > has > > > > absolutely no dearth of people who are well versed in every > > single > > > > vedic scripture (original, no translations) under the sun - > for > > > e.g. > > > > you will be absolutely amazed at the depth of vedic knowledge > of > > a > > > 20 > > > > year old (guys, is he 20 yet - you know who I am talking > about) > > > Guru > > > > on this group and who is not even Indian, and he isnt the only > > non > > > > Indian OR young Guru. There needs to be a disagreement or new > > > > interpretation to start a discussion, which I would love to > watch > > > and > > > > learn from, since I am mostly an observer. > > > > > > > > Again, JMHO - just my humble opinion > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "sanjaytechnology" > > > > <sanjaytechnology> wrote: > > > > > In response to all the questions regarding Moksha or > salvation. > > > > Here > > > > > are some brief explanations. > > > > > > > > > > The Best way to reach God: According to Hindu scriptures the > > > best > > > > > way to attain salvation is to think of God all the time > through > > > > > dhyana (contemplation), remembrance and repetition of god's > > > name. > > > > If > > > > > a person trains his mind to remember God all the time, very > > > likely > > > > > at the time of his death he will be able to concentrate his > > > > thoughts > > > > > on God and attain Him. Through mastery of their senses and > > > minds, > > > > > many saints and seers gain complete control on the process > of > > > > death > > > > > and develop an intuitive awareness of when and in what > manner > > > they > > > > > would depart from this world. When the time comes, leaving > > > > necessary > > > > > instructions to their disciples, they leave their bodies, > > > immersed > > > > > in a state of samadhi or deep trance. In the Bhagavad gita > > > > > Srikrishna declares that at the time death he who > concentrates > > > his > > > > > prana between the two eye brows with the strength of his > yoga > > > and > > > > is > > > > > engaged in devotion with an unwavering mind he attains the > > > Divine > > > > > and transcendental. > > > > > > > > > > In the eighth chapter named Yoga of Imperishable Brahman in > > the > > > > > Upanishad of the divine Bhagavad-Gita , the knowledge of the > > > > > Absolute, the yogic scripture, and the debate between Arjuna > > and > > > > > Lord Krishna. (Read Below) > > > > > > > > > > Yoga of Imperishable Brahman > > > > > Said Arjuna, "O Purushottama, what is that Brahman, What is > > > > Adhyatma > > > > > (inner Self) and what is karma ? What is said to be > Adhibhuta > > > (the > > > > > primeval being ) and what is referred to as Adhidaiva (the > > > Supreme > > > > > Deity)? > > > > > > > > > > "O Madhusudhana, who is Adhiyagna (master of sacrifices) in > > this > > > > > body ? And at the time of the final journey how the > > > practitioners > > > > of > > > > > self-control can realize You?" > > > > > > > > > > Said Lord Supreme, "Indestructible and beyond all is > Brahman. > > > Ones > > > > > own self is called Adhyatma. The cause behind the creation > of > > > all > > > > > the beings is called karma. > > > > > > > > > > "Adhibhuta is by nature destructible. The Purusha (the > > > Manifested > > > > > Supreme Self) is Adhidaiva. And certainly I am Adhiyagna in > the > > > > > body, O best of the embodied. > > > > > > > > > > "At the time of death, he who, remembering Me, leaves the > body, > > > > > attains My State. There is no doubt about this. > > > > > > > > > > "O Son of Kunti, whatever a person thinks of at the time of > > > leaving > > > > > his body , he attains that alone remembering it. > > > > > > > > > > "Therefore all the time keep remembering Me and engage in > the > > > > > battle. By offering your mind and intelligence to Me, you > will > > > > > undoubtedly attain Me. > > > > > > > > > > "Through the practice of Yoga and meditation with the mind > not > > > > > moving in other directions, one can attain the Supreme > > Purusha , > > > O > > > > > Partha. > > > > > > > > > > "Always thinking of the Creator, the Ancient, the Ordainer, > One > > > who > > > > > is smaller than the atom, the upholder of all, the > unthinkable > > > > > (beyond thought), whose form is of the color of Aditya > (golden > > > > > color), and who is beyond the dark inconscient. > > > > > > > > > > "At the time of death, with unwavering mind, engaged in > > > devotion, > > > > by > > > > > the strength of Yoga, establishing the prana (breath) > > completely > > > > > between the two eye brows, he attains the Divine and > > > transcendental > > > > > Personality of Brahman. > > > > > > > > > > "Now I will explain to you briefly that word which the > knowers > > > of > > > > > Vedas call "the Word", which the great sages desire to > attain > > by > > > > > practicing celibacy and renouncing all passions. > > > > > > > > > > "Controlling all the openings of the body, with the mind > > > > established > > > > > in the heart, fixing the prana in the self at the top of the > > > head > > > > > establishing oneself in the Yoga. > > > > > > > > > > "Uttering the monosyllable AUM, which is Brahman, who leaves > > the > > > > > body remembering Me, he achieves the highest goal. > > > > > > > > > > "To the constantly busy devotee who remembers Me without > > > engaging > > > > > his mind elsewhere , to him I am very easily attainable, O > > > Partha. > > > > > > > > > > "On attaining Me, the great souls are no more subjected to > > > rebirth, > > > > > suffering and transience, for they have attained the highest > > > > > perfection. > > > > > > > > > > "Arjuna, all worlds up to Brahma loka are subject to > rebirth. > > > But O > > > > > Kaunteya, on reaching Me there is no rebirth. > > > > > > > > > > "Those who know that the day of Brahman consists of > thousands > > of > > > > > Yugas and similarly His nights also, are the knowers of day > and > > > > > night. > > > > > > > > > > "From the unmanifest are manifested all the beings at the > > > beginning > > > > > of the day and are dissolved again into the unmanifest upon > the > > > > > arrival of the night. > > > > > > > > > > "All the living entities O Partha, after taking birth again > and > > > > > again, are automatically dissolved as the night arrives and > are > > > > > manifested again upon the arrival of the day. > > > > > > > > > > "But beyond the state of unmanifest there is yet another > state > > > of > > > > > unmanifest which is eternal and which can never be > annihilated > > > even > > > > > when all entities are annihilated > > > > > > > > > > "It is declared as the unmanifest and undiminishing, which > is > > > also > > > > > known as the ultimate goal by attaining which one) never > > > returns. > > > > > That is My Supreme Abode. > > > > > > > > > > "O Partha, that Supreme Being in whom are situated all the > > > elements > > > > > and by whom all this is pervaded can be attained only > through > > > > bhakti > > > > > (devotion). > > > > > > > > > > "O eminent among the Bharatas, now I will explain to you the > > > time > > > > > when the Yogis depart but never to return, and also the time > > > when > > > > > they depart but come back again. > > > > > > > > > > "Fire, light, day time, the waxing period of the moon, > > > uttarayanam > > > > > (the summer solstice) - those who depart then, knowers of > > > Brahman, > > > > > go to the Absolute straight away. > > > > > > > > > > "Smoke, night, the waning period of the moon, the winter > > > solstice, > > > > > those passing away during these attain the moon and return. > > > > > > > > > > "The light and darkness are the two permanent modes of > > departing > > > > > from this material world. By the former a man goes never to > > > return > > > > > and by the latter he goes only to come back. > > > > > > > > > > "The Yogi who knows these two paths is not deluded. > Therefore O > > > > > Arjuna, establish yourself in the Yoga all the time. > > > > > > > > > > "Knowing thus, the Yogi goes beyond the rewards attained by > the > > > > > study of the Vedas, performance of sacrifices, austerities, > > > > > charitable works and attains the Supreme Abode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aum Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Sundeep, Agreed. As an aside, a phrase in your email reminded me of something. You said " there is no permanent "you" anyway" when talking about Sankhya yoga. I read about different sciences in my spare time, and in my days of reading about cell biology, I came across a fact that had pretty big implications to the "ego". As we all know, the all living cells divide, perform their functions for a while and eventually die. Well, apparently the MAXIMUM "lifetime" for any of the cells in the human body is 7 years. In other words, *every* single cell in your body is a different one today compared to the ones 8 years ago. Yet, you "feel" you are the same person. How incredible is that? And how powerful is this concept of "ego", the Ahamkaara and this immense Maya that we are so thoughtlessly part of! Mind boggling indeed. The more I learn, the humbler I feel. Venkat vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent" <vedicastrostudent> wrote: > Venkat, > I am not offended at all. I was only clarifying. Also, about the > Karma Yoga thing, I think there is a real discussion there for all of > us, because at least I may have misunderstood some things. > > In the post in which I contradicted Mukund who said that we should > do good karma essentially to get us to Moksha, what I meant to say is > that Karma Yoga does not mean doing good karma. This is what I used > to think and someone on this list itself corrected me a long time > ago. I think the example I used was "Mother Teresa was a Karma Yogi > because she did good karma". However, I was corrected by some > knowledgeable person here that said Karma Yoga is not doing good > karma but detachment from good AND bad karma. It is a different thing > that when you get detached the only thing you do is good. But the key > to Karma yoga remains the detachment. This is easy to say but what > does it really mean in the final and physical sense of everyday life. > I eventually understood this in the context of Carl Jung's > interpretations of the psychology of an enlightened person. The > psychology is as I said - the libido (psychic energy, impetus to > action) has been removed completely from the ego and senses, and the > impetus to action is derived from within. That is exactly how Karma > Yoga, Bhakti Yoga and Sankhya Yoga are the same. You become a Karma > Yogi by explicitly detaching yourself from the fruits of labor (be > they good or bad), and thereby making your ego extinct (no rewards to > the ego). You become a Bhakti Yogi by concentrating only on God, and > thereby making your ego extinct. You become a Sankhya Yogi by > investigating nature and figuring out that you are no different from > anyone or anything else and there is no permanent "you" anyway, > thereby making your ego extinct. Whatever path you choose, the final > effect of the path in the material universe must be to rob your ego > of all it's energy and make it disappear. Enlightenment automatically > results, and it has only ONE physical manifestation - an egoless > individual whose libido flows from within. > > Sundeep > > > > > vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry" > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote: > > Sundeep, > > > > I'm sorry if I have misinterpreted you. That was not my intention. > > When you said that you were well aware of the quotations in > Sanjay's > > posting, and went on to talk about people on this group that were > > well-versed in the scriptures, I wanted to point out that there > were > > also people like me that are still beginners, and appreciate the > > opportunity to see such quotations. > > > > You are right, you did not say in this posting that Karma is not to > > be followed. In another posting from you, message 37584 on this > > list, you made an excellent argument for why good karma does not > > lead to moksha, while bhakti and meditation does. My response was > in > > part, directed towards that posting. I do agree with you in the > > sense that good Karma *alone* is not sufficient to grant you > Moksha, > > and you need the removal of ego as you so rightly observed. But > good > > Karma *leads* you to Moksha, by helping that process of removing > the > > ego. We all start out doing good Karma in hope of the rewards, but > > somewhere along the line, we (hopefully) will do good just for the > > sake of doing good, and dedicate that to the Lord. And similarly, > > Bhakti alon does not grant you Moksha either - most of the time, my > > prayers, I am ashamed to say, are for selfish reasons such as my > > family's well being etc. But hopefully the 20% of the time that I > > spend praying for the sheer joy of praying, and not for any > rewards, > > will increase to 50% with constant discipline. So also meditation, > > when I do perform it, it is more for relaxation than for the > Eternal > > Bliss, but with the grace of God and with constant discipline, > maybe > > that will happen. > > > > Anyway, if I hurt your feelings in any way, I am sorry. That was > not > > my intention. I was merely pointing out that Bhakti is great, but > so > > are the other paths. From your present email, it seems like we are > > agreeing with each other. > > > > Thanks, > > Venkat > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Sundeep, I may have mistakenly sent you a response as a private email. Could you please forward it on to the group? Venkata vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent" <vedicastrostudent> wrote: > Venkat, > I am not offended at all. I was only clarifying. Also, about the > Karma Yoga thing, I think there is a real discussion there for all of > us, because at least I may have misunderstood some things. > > In the post in which I contradicted Mukund who said that we should > do good karma essentially to get us to Moksha, what I meant to say is > that Karma Yoga does not mean doing good karma. This is what I used > to think and someone on this list itself corrected me a long time > ago. I think the example I used was "Mother Teresa was a Karma Yogi > because she did good karma". However, I was corrected by some > knowledgeable person here that said Karma Yoga is not doing good > karma but detachment from good AND bad karma. It is a different thing > that when you get detached the only thing you do is good. But the key > to Karma yoga remains the detachment. This is easy to say but what > does it really mean in the final and physical sense of everyday life. > I eventually understood this in the context of Carl Jung's > interpretations of the psychology of an enlightened person. The > psychology is as I said - the libido (psychic energy, impetus to > action) has been removed completely from the ego and senses, and the > impetus to action is derived from within. That is exactly how Karma > Yoga, Bhakti Yoga and Sankhya Yoga are the same. You become a Karma > Yogi by explicitly detaching yourself from the fruits of labor (be > they good or bad), and thereby making your ego extinct (no rewards to > the ego). You become a Bhakti Yogi by concentrating only on God, and > thereby making your ego extinct. You become a Sankhya Yogi by > investigating nature and figuring out that you are no different from > anyone or anything else and there is no permanent "you" anyway, > thereby making your ego extinct. Whatever path you choose, the final > effect of the path in the material universe must be to rob your ego > of all it's energy and make it disappear. Enlightenment automatically > results, and it has only ONE physical manifestation - an egoless > individual whose libido flows from within. > > Sundeep > > > > > vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry" > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote: > > Sundeep, > > > > I'm sorry if I have misinterpreted you. That was not my intention. > > When you said that you were well aware of the quotations in > Sanjay's > > posting, and went on to talk about people on this group that were > > well-versed in the scriptures, I wanted to point out that there > were > > also people like me that are still beginners, and appreciate the > > opportunity to see such quotations. > > > > You are right, you did not say in this posting that Karma is not to > > be followed. In another posting from you, message 37584 on this > > list, you made an excellent argument for why good karma does not > > lead to moksha, while bhakti and meditation does. My response was > in > > part, directed towards that posting. I do agree with you in the > > sense that good Karma *alone* is not sufficient to grant you > Moksha, > > and you need the removal of ego as you so rightly observed. But > good > > Karma *leads* you to Moksha, by helping that process of removing > the > > ego. We all start out doing good Karma in hope of the rewards, but > > somewhere along the line, we (hopefully) will do good just for the > > sake of doing good, and dedicate that to the Lord. And similarly, > > Bhakti alon does not grant you Moksha either - most of the time, my > > prayers, I am ashamed to say, are for selfish reasons such as my > > family's well being etc. But hopefully the 20% of the time that I > > spend praying for the sheer joy of praying, and not for any > rewards, > > will increase to 50% with constant discipline. So also meditation, > > when I do perform it, it is more for relaxation than for the > Eternal > > Bliss, but with the grace of God and with constant discipline, > maybe > > that will happen. > > > > Anyway, if I hurt your feelings in any way, I am sorry. That was > not > > my intention. I was merely pointing out that Bhakti is great, but > so > > are the other paths. From your present email, it seems like we are > > agreeing with each other. > > > > Thanks, > > Venkat > > > > > > vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent" > > <vedicastrostudent> wrote: > > > Venkat, > > > Again being a little nitpicky here. You seem to have > > misinterpreted > > > me left and right: > > > 1) Can you point out where exactly I said *I* am well aware of > all > > > the scriptures? I only said I am aware of all the quotations in > > the > > > post - since they are literal translations of the verses in the > > > Bhagavad Gita - available all over the web. > > > 2) Can you also point out where exactly I said Bhakti Yoga is > best > > > for *me*? I only said that the Bhagavad Gita says that it is the > > > fastest way to emancipation. Does it not? Not "best" - "best" is > > > subjective as you have rightly observed. But fastest. > > > 3) Can you also point out where I said that Karma Yoga is not to > > be > > > followed? I only pointed out the Bhakti Yoga is the fastest, > > > *according to the Bhagavad Gita*. > > > My own personal opinion, or even *my* interpretation of the > > Bhagavad > > > Gita's opinion, on the "right or wrong way" to obtain Moksha is > > not > > > there anywhere in the post. Look again, can you find it? You are > > > arguing about about something you have projected on me, something > > > that was never said or even intended. > > > > > > Even the original poster (Sanjay) has specifically highlighted > the > > > Bhakti Yoga path - not really discredited or discouraged anyone > > from > > > any other path, like you seem to have concluded that I have done. > > I > > > am still unaware of disagreements, or new facts. Which is why I > > > originally posted that to me Sanjay's post was merely > > informational > > > for a generally well informed bunch. No disrespect or discredit > > > intended anywhere simply a desire to see better used bandwidth. > > That > > > too is only a hopefully not harsh opinion - only Narasimha has > the > > > right to judge. > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "venkatarama_sastry" > > > <venkatarama_sastry> wrote: > > > > Sundeep, > > > > > > > > Maybe you are well aware of all the scriptures, and maybe there > > are > > > > other like you on this group. But I, for one, am not well > versed > > in > > > > the scriptures, not even in the Bhagawat Gita, although I have > > read > > > > it innumerable times. Each time I read it, I am struck by more > > and > > > > more wonderous discoveries. As some great personality once > said, > > > the > > > > scriptures are like the treasures at the bottom of the ocean, > > and > > > > each time you dive in, you find more and more of them! > > > > > > > > If Bhakti Yoga is the best for you, that is great, so be it. > But > > if > > > > someone else is more suited for Karma Yoga, then let them do > > that. > > > > You will remember that the Geeta was the Lord's upadesh to > > Arjuna, > > > > who was the ultimate "action man". For that personality, the > > best > > > > means to moksha is Karma, to be more specific, NISHKAAMA Karma, > > > > i.e. "action without desires". That, again, is the gist of the > > > > famous verse, "Karmanyeva adhikaarastu". Similarly for many > > great > > > > personalities, the path to moksha was Jyaana Yoga. All of these > > are > > > > different external manifestations of the same internal > > phenomenon - > > > > internal focus on God. > > > > > > > > Let us each follow the path that is right for us, instead of > > > > fighting over what the "best" path is! The definition of "best" > > > > varied so much from person to person. If we were trying to > reach > > > the > > > > top of a hill, I might want to drive around in a car, while you > > > > prefer to walk, while someone else might have a helicopter drop > > > them > > > > there. Just my opinion. > > > > > > > > Narasimha, this has nothing to do with astrology so my > > apologies. > > > We > > > > will take this discussion offline if you wish. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Venkat > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "vedicastrostudent" > > > > <vedicastrostudent> wrote: > > > > > Sanjay, > > > > > Sorry to be a bit nitpicky here, but I am struggling to find > > > your > > > > > opinion here. I personally am well aware of all the > quotations > > > you > > > > > have included. I am also well aware that the Bhagavad Gita > > > > recommends > > > > > Bhakti Yoga as the fastest path to emancipation. If you find > > that > > > > > Bhakti is the path for you, you are simply in agreement with > > the > > > > well- > > > > > known words, and there is really nothing more to say. You are > > > > simply > > > > > preaching to the choir again and again - believe me, this > > group > > > > has > > > > > absolutely no dearth of people who are well versed in every > > > single > > > > > vedic scripture (original, no translations) under the sun - > > for > > > > e.g. > > > > > you will be absolutely amazed at the depth of vedic knowledge > > of > > > a > > > > 20 > > > > > year old (guys, is he 20 yet - you know who I am talking > > about) > > > > Guru > > > > > on this group and who is not even Indian, and he isnt the > only > > > non > > > > > Indian OR young Guru. There needs to be a disagreement or new > > > > > interpretation to start a discussion, which I would love to > > watch > > > > and > > > > > learn from, since I am mostly an observer. > > > > > > > > > > Again, JMHO - just my humble opinion > > > > > > > > > > Sundeep > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, "sanjaytechnology" > > > > > <sanjaytechnology> wrote: > > > > > > In response to all the questions regarding Moksha or > > salvation. > > > > > Here > > > > > > are some brief explanations. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Best way to reach God: According to Hindu scriptures > the > > > > best > > > > > > way to attain salvation is to think of God all the time > > through > > > > > > dhyana (contemplation), remembrance and repetition of god's > > > > name. > > > > > If > > > > > > a person trains his mind to remember God all the time, very > > > > likely > > > > > > at the time of his death he will be able to concentrate his > > > > > thoughts > > > > > > on God and attain Him. Through mastery of their senses and > > > > minds, > > > > > > many saints and seers gain complete control on the process > > of > > > > > death > > > > > > and develop an intuitive awareness of when and in what > > manner > > > > they > > > > > > would depart from this world. When the time comes, leaving > > > > > necessary > > > > > > instructions to their disciples, they leave their bodies, > > > > immersed > > > > > > in a state of samadhi or deep trance. In the Bhagavad gita > > > > > > Srikrishna declares that at the time death he who > > concentrates > > > > his > > > > > > prana between the two eye brows with the strength of his > > yoga > > > > and > > > > > is > > > > > > engaged in devotion with an unwavering mind he attains the > > > > Divine > > > > > > and transcendental. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the eighth chapter named Yoga of Imperishable Brahman > in > > > the > > > > > > Upanishad of the divine Bhagavad-Gita , the knowledge of > the > > > > > > Absolute, the yogic scripture, and the debate between > Arjuna > > > and > > > > > > Lord Krishna. (Read Below) > > > > > > > > > > > > Yoga of Imperishable Brahman > > > > > > Said Arjuna, "O Purushottama, what is that Brahman, What is > > > > > Adhyatma > > > > > > (inner Self) and what is karma ? What is said to be > > Adhibhuta > > > > (the > > > > > > primeval being ) and what is referred to as Adhidaiva (the > > > > Supreme > > > > > > Deity)? > > > > > > > > > > > > "O Madhusudhana, who is Adhiyagna (master of sacrifices) in > > > this > > > > > > body ? And at the time of the final journey how the > > > > practitioners > > > > > of > > > > > > self-control can realize You?" > > > > > > > > > > > > Said Lord Supreme, "Indestructible and beyond all is > > Brahman. > > > > Ones > > > > > > own self is called Adhyatma. The cause behind the creation > > of > > > > all > > > > > > the beings is called karma. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Adhibhuta is by nature destructible. The Purusha (the > > > > Manifested > > > > > > Supreme Self) is Adhidaiva. And certainly I am Adhiyagna in > > the > > > > > > body, O best of the embodied. > > > > > > > > > > > > "At the time of death, he who, remembering Me, leaves the > > body, > > > > > > attains My State. There is no doubt about this. > > > > > > > > > > > > "O Son of Kunti, whatever a person thinks of at the time of > > > > leaving > > > > > > his body , he attains that alone remembering it. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Therefore all the time keep remembering Me and engage in > > the > > > > > > battle. By offering your mind and intelligence to Me, you > > will > > > > > > undoubtedly attain Me. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Through the practice of Yoga and meditation with the mind > > not > > > > > > moving in other directions, one can attain the Supreme > > > Purusha , > > > > O > > > > > > Partha. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Always thinking of the Creator, the Ancient, the Ordainer, > > One > > > > who > > > > > > is smaller than the atom, the upholder of all, the > > unthinkable > > > > > > (beyond thought), whose form is of the color of Aditya > > (golden > > > > > > color), and who is beyond the dark inconscient. > > > > > > > > > > > > "At the time of death, with unwavering mind, engaged in > > > > devotion, > > > > > by > > > > > > the strength of Yoga, establishing the prana (breath) > > > completely > > > > > > between the two eye brows, he attains the Divine and > > > > transcendental > > > > > > Personality of Brahman. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Now I will explain to you briefly that word which the > > knowers > > > > of > > > > > > Vedas call "the Word", which the great sages desire to > > attain > > > by > > > > > > practicing celibacy and renouncing all passions. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Controlling all the openings of the body, with the mind > > > > > established > > > > > > in the heart, fixing the prana in the self at the top of > the > > > > head > > > > > > establishing oneself in the Yoga. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Uttering the monosyllable AUM, which is Brahman, who > leaves > > > the > > > > > > body remembering Me, he achieves the highest goal. > > > > > > > > > > > > "To the constantly busy devotee who remembers Me without > > > > engaging > > > > > > his mind elsewhere , to him I am very easily attainable, O > > > > Partha. > > > > > > > > > > > > "On attaining Me, the great souls are no more subjected to > > > > rebirth, > > > > > > suffering and transience, for they have attained the > highest > > > > > > perfection. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Arjuna, all worlds up to Brahma loka are subject to > > rebirth. > > > > But O > > > > > > Kaunteya, on reaching Me there is no rebirth. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Those who know that the day of Brahman consists of > > thousands > > > of > > > > > > Yugas and similarly His nights also, are the knowers of day > > and > > > > > > night. > > > > > > > > > > > > "From the unmanifest are manifested all the beings at the > > > > beginning > > > > > > of the day and are dissolved again into the unmanifest upon > > the > > > > > > arrival of the night. > > > > > > > > > > > > "All the living entities O Partha, after taking birth again > > and > > > > > > again, are automatically dissolved as the night arrives and > > are > > > > > > manifested again upon the arrival of the day. > > > > > > > > > > > > "But beyond the state of unmanifest there is yet another > > state > > > > of > > > > > > unmanifest which is eternal and which can never be > > annihilated > > > > even > > > > > > when all entities are annihilated > > > > > > > > > > > > "It is declared as the unmanifest and undiminishing, which > > is > > > > also > > > > > > known as the ultimate goal by attaining which one) never > > > > returns. > > > > > > That is My Supreme Abode. > > > > > > > > > > > > "O Partha, that Supreme Being in whom are situated all the > > > > elements > > > > > > and by whom all this is pervaded can be attained only > > through > > > > > bhakti > > > > > > (devotion). > > > > > > > > > > > > "O eminent among the Bharatas, now I will explain to you > the > > > > time > > > > > > when the Yogis depart but never to return, and also the > time > > > > when > > > > > > they depart but come back again. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Fire, light, day time, the waxing period of the moon, > > > > uttarayanam > > > > > > (the summer solstice) - those who depart then, knowers of > > > > Brahman, > > > > > > go to the Absolute straight away. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Smoke, night, the waning period of the moon, the winter > > > > solstice, > > > > > > those passing away during these attain the moon and return. > > > > > > > > > > > > "The light and darkness are the two permanent modes of > > > departing > > > > > > from this material world. By the former a man goes never to > > > > return > > > > > > and by the latter he goes only to come back. > > > > > > > > > > > > "The Yogi who knows these two paths is not deluded. > > Therefore O > > > > > > Arjuna, establish yourself in the Yoga all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Knowing thus, the Yogi goes beyond the rewards attained by > > the > > > > > > study of the Vedas, performance of sacrifices, austerities, > > > > > > charitable works and attains the Supreme Abode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aum Shanti Shanti Shanti. > > > > > > > > > > > > --Sanjay Aggarwal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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