Guest guest Posted July 20, 2003 Report Share Posted July 20, 2003 Pranaam Sanjay, When we don't even know Sree Rama's chart for sure, how can we use his chart for correcting our understanding of Moola dasa? Genuine research into Moola dasa (or any other technique for that matter) is possible only using charts that we know are accurate. Thus the charts of Sree Rama and Sree Krishna are ruled out. We discussed this earlier. Valmiki mentioned that Sree Rama was born in Punarvasu nakshatra. In order to "fix" Sun in Aries, you take Moon in Pushyami and explain that "being born in Punarvasu nakshatra" can also mean lagna being in Punarvasu and not Moon. Your stand is a valid stand to take, but most definitely not unquestionable. For all you know, lord Rama's Sun could be in Pisces (if you take Moon in Punarvasu, Sun must be in Pisces on Sukla Navami tithi). The only thing we know for sure is that Cancer rose and lagna contained Moon and Jupiter. We also know that 5 planets were in exaltation (we can also interpret "swochcha" differently and say that 5 planets were in own or exaltation signs!). There are so many ways in which all the constraints given by Valmiki can be satisfied. There are many candidate charts. The chart you are using could certainly be wrong. BTW, why is Jupiter dasa for 11 years in the table below? I thought the correction was 6-1+1=6 years and the dasa was for 16-6=10 years. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha > Jaya Guru > Dear Swee thank you for the confirmation. Then the Alternative -3 is correct.> Narasimha I hope you are reading this. The strengths of the signs for Moola dasa need to be reworked. I have taught whatever I knew. Now a team should be formed to study this seriously and arrive at the most accurate method of determination of the strengths of the kendras for the dasa order. This is the most important area of research and is crucial as it brings out the suffering in life. Without being able to time the suffering we cannot time end of suffering or suggest remedy correctly. I suggest we form a team of five people for this.> 1. Narasimha - he has to be there as he alone can do the JHora changes and also is aware of whatever I have to teach in this regard. None have learnt more than him in this matter of Moola dasa.> 2. Swee Chan and/or Anil Kumar Kedia: To check the Purana and give the correct interretations and any help in Jyotish or spirituality related matter as Moola dasa has a strong spirituality basis.> 3. Two more volunteers needed. Narasimha has to approve his team finally.> Please consider this as a service to Sri Rama as your work shall help us to understand the Ramayana better.> Yours truly, > Sanjay Rath > Mail: H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > E-mail: srath@s... srath@v... daivagyna@s... > Web: http://srath.com http://.org > ----~om tat sat~-------------- > > > Alternative-3 (matches Skanda Purana)> > Moon 10 years> Jupiter 11 years> -----------------------> 21 years> Mars 3> ---------------------------> 24 years> Sun 2> ----------------------------> 26 years> Saturn 14 years (Vanvas)> -> 40 years> Venus 12> > 52 year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2003 Report Share Posted July 20, 2003 |Bhargodevaasya|Dear Narasimha, Namaste. If Sun was in Pisces, then how to we explain that his name - Ram is associated with divinity today, if the Arudha Lagna doesn't have a fiery graha in devaamsa? Would you expect Mars in Kendra to fulfill that role?Best wishesVisti---Sri Jagannath Center: http://.orgBhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgiTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org - Narasimha P.V.R. Rao vedic astrology Sunday, July 20, 2003 4:58 PM [vedic astrology] Re: EVENT DETAILS OF SHREE RAM Pranaam Sanjay, When we don't even know Sree Rama's chart for sure, how can we use his chart for correcting our understanding of Moola dasa? Genuine research into Moola dasa (or any other technique for that matter) is possible only using charts that we know are accurate. Thus the charts of Sree Rama and Sree Krishna are ruled out. We discussed this earlier. Valmiki mentioned that Sree Rama was born in Punarvasu nakshatra. In order to "fix" Sun in Aries, you take Moon in Pushyami and explain that "being born in Punarvasu nakshatra" can also mean lagna being in Punarvasu and not Moon. Your stand is a valid stand to take, but most definitely not unquestionable. For all you know, lord Rama's Sun could be in Pisces (if you take Moon in Punarvasu, Sun must be in Pisces on Sukla Navami tithi). The only thing we know for sure is that Cancer rose and lagna contained Moon and Jupiter. We also know that 5 planets were in exaltation (we can also interpret "swochcha" differently and say that 5 planets were in own or exaltation signs!). There are so many ways in which all the constraints given by Valmiki can be satisfied. There are many candidate charts. The chart you are using could certainly be wrong. BTW, why is Jupiter dasa for 11 years in the table below? I thought the correction was 6-1+1=6 years and the dasa was for 16-6=10 years. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha > Jaya Guru > Dear Swee thank you for the confirmation. Then the Alternative -3 is correct.> Narasimha I hope you are reading this. The strengths of the signs for Moola dasa need to be reworked. I have taught whatever I knew. Now a team should be formed to study this seriously and arrive at the most accurate method of determination of the strengths of the kendras for the dasa order. This is the most important area of research and is crucial as it brings out the suffering in life. Without being able to time the suffering we cannot time end of suffering or suggest remedy correctly. I suggest we form a team of five people for this.> 1. Narasimha - he has to be there as he alone can do the JHora changes and also is aware of whatever I have to teach in this regard. None have learnt more than him in this matter of Moola dasa.> 2. Swee Chan and/or Anil Kumar Kedia: To check the Purana and give the correct interretations and any help in Jyotish or spirituality related matter as Moola dasa has a strong spirituality basis.> 3. Two more volunteers needed. Narasimha has to approve his team finally.> Please consider this as a service to Sri Rama as your work shall help us to understand the Ramayana better.> Yours truly, > Sanjay Rath > Mail: H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > E-mail: srath@s... srath@v... daivagyna@s... > Web: http://srath.com http://.org > ----~om tat sat~-------------- > > > Alternative-3 (matches Skanda Purana)> > Moon 10 years> Jupiter 11 years> -----------------------> 21 years> Mars 3> ---------------------------> 24 years> Sun 2> ----------------------------> 26 years> Saturn 14 years (Vanvas)> -> 40 years> Venus 12> > 52 yearArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......|| Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2003 Report Share Posted July 20, 2003 Dear Visti, Namaste. Are we sure that it is AL that shows how a person is remembered long after his material existence? Or is it lagna or BL or something else? Is rasi chart the chart for it or is there another chart? Also, kindly show me a principle in classical literature that says that a fiery graha should occupy Devaamsa for a divinity. Also, can those who suggest that Rama did not have Moon in Punarvasu show another occasion where Sage Valmiki or Sage Vyasa mentioned lagna nakshatra of a native instead of Moon's nakshatra? Just because lagna nakshatra is stronger in a particular chart than Moon's nakshatra, would you mention lagna nakshatra as the native's nakshatra? If Utpanna tara is stronger than Janma tara, we use it in Vimsottari dasa. If somebody was born in Revathi and Utpanna tara (Rohini) is stronger and Vimsottari dasa starts from Rohini, will you say that the native was born in Rohini nakshatra? Not at all. We still say that the native was born in Revathi. Starting of dasas is different and birth nakshatra is different. Birth nakshatra is always taken as Moon's nakshatra. If you extend the definition to lagna nakshatra because it can be used in dasas, it can be extended to Utpanna tara too! If you disagree, show me another example from classics that mentions lagna nakshatra as the nakshatra of birth. If one thinks clearly and without any compromises, it becomes clear that Lord Rama's Moon must be in Punarvasu and Sun at the end of Pisces (perhaps as AK). In fact, it makes far more sense to me to see Sun in dharma sthana (9th) as AK, considering that Rama's aatma was from the solar form of Paramatma and also he stood for dharma. He is known for his dharma. Talking about Mars in a quadrant from AL, we don't even know Mars was really in Cp. These are all guesses by scholars. For all you know, the real Rama chart could have Moon and Jupiter in Cancer lagna, Saturn in 4th, exalted Ketu in 6th, Sun and Venus in 9th, Mars in 10th (in AL in Devaamsa), Mercury in 11th and Rahu in 12th. It still has 5 planets in exaltation signs (including nodes) as Valmiki wrote (moreover, Valmiki might've meant that 5 planets occupy own or exaltation signs, in which case there are many more possibilities). With the hypothetical chart I gave, Moon dasa and Jupiter dasa run till 20 years. Based on the second source of strength, Aries wins over Libra and 7-year Mars dasa runs from 20 years of age to 27 years. Mars in AL in fiery Aries made him kill a lot of demons. He also learnt about a lot of weapons from Viswamitra. Due to UL also being in Aries with Mars, Mars dasa gave wedding too. With Mars being in 10th house, Mars dasa gave the coronation plan too. But, 14-year Saturn dasa took him to forests for 14 years. The above is just one hypothetical example. One can come up with many such variations. Bottomline is that I (and some other scholars) will find it very very hard to believe that Valmiki would say Rama was born in Punarvasu if his Moon was in Pushyami. This makes Sun's placement in Aries look highly dubious. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha > |Bhargodevaasya|> Dear Narasimha, Namaste.> If Sun was in Pisces, then how to we explain that his name - Ram is associated with divinity today, if the Arudha Lagna doesn't have a fiery graha in devaamsa? Would you expect Mars in Kendra to fulfill that role?> Best wishes> Visti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2003 Report Share Posted July 20, 2003 respected gurus, we discussed sri rama's chart in sjc class in context to moola dasa, there were two curses, one was jupiters curse, secondary was moon's curse. jupiters curse as we all know was muni narda's curse. we could not think of any kind of moon's curse except suffering due to kaikayi's vars.but as know moola dasa gives u suffering due to past kramas & curses this explaination doesn't fit well. ramacharitmanas gives a clue about the second curse which was given by vrinda -jullandhar's wife to lord vishnu . param sati asuradhip nari/ tehi bal tahi na jitahi purari// chhal kari tarau tasu brat prabhu sur karaj kinh/ jab tehi janau tab shraap kop kari dinh// tasu shraap hari dinh pramaana / kautuknidhi kripaal bhagvaana// taha jullandhar ravan bhayaun / ran hati ram param pad dayau// baalkaand doha 123 when jullandhar could not b defeated by lord siva, lord vishnu helped lord siva , he knew that the demon's power is all because of his wife's satitva. so, he caused his wife's sheela- bhanga thru maya or chhala. soon after that lord shiva defeated jullandhar. then vrinda cursed lord vishnu, that he will suffer from his wife's separation . jullandhar in his next birth bcame ravana & abducted lord ram's wife. another pauranic story tells taht vrinda gave two curses. in addition to teh above one he cursed to b'come a stone. that's how he bcame slaigrama. this is a very popular one & a must to read during kartik mas. since vrinda was divine pativrata lady, that's how she is represented by a swagrahi moon in the chart. but then of course there was no motherly relation... o, shouln't she have been rather represented by venus ? after all, in the from of tulsi, she is considered as lord's wife. with regards prashant vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...> wrote: > > |Bhargodevaasya| > Dear Narasimha, Namaste. > If Sun was in Pisces, then how to we explain that his name - Ram is associated with divinity today, if the Arudha Lagna doesn't have a fiery graha in devaamsa? Would you expect Mars in Kendra to fulfill that role? > Best wishes > Visti > --- > Sri Jagannath Center: http://.org > Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org > iTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org > - > Narasimha P.V.R. Rao > vedic astrology > Sunday, July 20, 2003 4:58 PM > [vedic astrology] Re: EVENT DETAILS OF SHREE RAM > > > Pranaam Sanjay, > > When we don't even know Sree Rama's chart for sure, how can we use his chart for correcting our understanding of Moola dasa? > > Genuine research into Moola dasa (or any other technique for that matter) is possible only using charts that we know are accurate. Thus the charts of Sree Rama and Sree Krishna are ruled out. > > We discussed this earlier. Valmiki mentioned that Sree Rama was born in Punarvasu nakshatra. In order to "fix" Sun in Aries, you take Moon in Pushyami and explain that "being born in Punarvasu nakshatra" can also mean lagna being in Punarvasu and not Moon. Your stand is a valid stand to take, but most definitely not unquestionable. For all you know, lord Rama's Sun could be in Pisces (if you take Moon in Punarvasu, Sun must be in Pisces on Sukla Navami tithi). The only thing we know for sure is that Cancer rose and lagna contained Moon and Jupiter. We also know that 5 planets were in exaltation (we can also interpret "swochcha" differently and say that 5 planets were in own or exaltation signs!). There are so many ways in which all the constraints given by Valmiki can be satisfied. There are many candidate charts. The chart you are using could certainly be wrong. > > BTW, why is Jupiter dasa for 11 years in the table below? I thought the correction was 6-1+1=6 years and the dasa was for 16- 6=10 years. > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha > > > Jaya Guru > > Dear Swee thank you for the confirmation. Then the Alternative -3 is correct. > > Narasimha I hope you are reading this. The strengths of the signs for Moola dasa need to be reworked. I have taught whatever I knew. Now a team should be formed to study this seriously and arrive at the most accurate method of determination of the strengths of the kendras for the dasa order. This is the most important area of research and is crucial as it brings out the suffering in life. Without being able to time the suffering we cannot time end of suffering or suggest remedy correctly. I suggest we form a team of five people for this. > > 1. Narasimha - he has to be there as he alone can do the JHora changes and also is aware of whatever I have to teach in this regard. None have learnt more than him in this matter of Moola dasa. > > 2. Swee Chan and/or Anil Kumar Kedia: To check the Purana and give the correct interretations and any help in Jyotish or spirituality related matter as Moola dasa has a strong spirituality basis. > > 3. Two more volunteers needed. Narasimha has to approve his team finally. > > Please consider this as a service to Sri Rama as your work shall help us to understand the Ramayana better. > > Yours truly, > > Sanjay Rath > > Mail: H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > > E-mail: srath@s... srath@v... daivagyna@s... > > Web: http://srath.com http://.org > > ----~om tat sat~-------------- > > > > > > Alternative-3 (matches Skanda Purana) > > > > Moon 10 years > > Jupiter 11 years > > ----------------------- > > 21 years > > Mars 3 > > --------------------------- > > 24 years > > Sun 2 > > ---------------------------- > > 26 years > > Saturn 14 years (Vanvas) > > - > > 40 years > > Venus 12 > > > > 52 year > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2003 Report Share Posted July 20, 2003 |Bhargodevaasya|Dear Narasimha, Namaste. 1. Both Lagna and Arudha Lagna have a say on ones fame - the latter more temporarily, and we're taught to see Moon & Jupiter with reference to these 2. Your inference about Bhava Lagna is interesting - please share your thoughts. As far as i understand, the Vargas will determine the extent of fame, i.e. Vaisheshikamsa's. I can't comment on D-108 thou - you may know more. 2. You misunderstood me; let me explain. Whenever we run around in the mundane world, we are bound to be associated with our Arudha. You gave the example once of Yuddhistir needing Shani strong in Kendra from Arudha Lagna. Hence the image one portrays to soceity is also indicated, and if its associated with divinity, the name must fall in a ShastyAmsa like Deva, making one associated with divinity. Now a fiery planet was my own inference due to the Rama Taraka Mantra; Ram Ramaaya Namah - Soo much Agni due to the 'Ra'-beeja. 3. I don't live in Treta Yuga, and hence don't understand the lingo used then. How can one be so vague in expressing that 5 planets were in Swa or Ucche Rasi's? To me that sounds too vague to be considered as a planetary combination. Its like saying that the Lagna was either Cancer or housing Moon. Similarly i can accept due to this that the reference to Nakshatra could just as well be Lagna instead of Moon.. this is the understanding then. In this day and age we refer to Nakshatra as that of Moon. Some even refer to Janma Rasi as that of Moon Rasi instead of Lagna these days. 4. The Atmakaraka - as we're taught, does not show the expansion of the Paramatma, as then the possibility of being the expansion of Ketu occurs, and this is not possible. Instead the Chara Atmakaraka shows the reason for ones birth. i.e. Why one has come back. You may infer that Sri Rama came back to establish Eka Patni Dharma (Venus Exalted in 9th). Keep in mind that the planets in trines shows the dharma we will follow in life. The Shakti the Paramatma merges with before entering this world is not indicated by the Chara Atmakaraka. 5. I like your Vimshottari Dasa test. Couldn't it have been drawn from Lagna? Also Tara Dasa is applicable when all Kendra's are occupied. Best wishesVisti---Sri Jagannath Center: http://.orgBhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgiTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org - Narasimha P.V.R. Rao vedic astrology Sunday, July 20, 2003 6:57 PM [vedic astrology] Re: EVENT DETAILS OF SHREE RAM Dear Visti, Namaste. Are we sure that it is AL that shows how a person is remembered long after his material existence? Or is it lagna or BL or something else? Is rasi chart the chart for it or is there another chart? Also, kindly show me a principle in classical literature that says that a fiery graha should occupy Devaamsa for a divinity. Also, can those who suggest that Rama did not have Moon in Punarvasu show another occasion where Sage Valmiki or Sage Vyasa mentioned lagna nakshatra of a native instead of Moon's nakshatra? Just because lagna nakshatra is stronger in a particular chart than Moon's nakshatra, would you mention lagna nakshatra as the native's nakshatra? If Utpanna tara is stronger than Janma tara, we use it in Vimsottari dasa. If somebody was born in Revathi and Utpanna tara (Rohini) is stronger and Vimsottari dasa starts from Rohini, will you say that the native was born in Rohini nakshatra? Not at all. We still say that the native was born in Revathi. Starting of dasas is different and birth nakshatra is different. Birth nakshatra is always taken as Moon's nakshatra. If you extend the definition to lagna nakshatra because it can be used in dasas, it can be extended to Utpanna tara too! If you disagree, show me another example from classics that mentions lagna nakshatra as the nakshatra of birth. If one thinks clearly and without any compromises, it becomes clear that Lord Rama's Moon must be in Punarvasu and Sun at the end of Pisces (perhaps as AK). In fact, it makes far more sense to me to see Sun in dharma sthana (9th) as AK, considering that Rama's aatma was from the solar form of Paramatma and also he stood for dharma. He is known for his dharma. Talking about Mars in a quadrant from AL, we don't even know Mars was really in Cp. These are all guesses by scholars. For all you know, the real Rama chart could have Moon and Jupiter in Cancer lagna, Saturn in 4th, exalted Ketu in 6th, Sun and Venus in 9th, Mars in 10th (in AL in Devaamsa), Mercury in 11th and Rahu in 12th. It still has 5 planets in exaltation signs (including nodes) as Valmiki wrote (moreover, Valmiki might've meant that 5 planets occupy own or exaltation signs, in which case there are many more possibilities). With the hypothetical chart I gave, Moon dasa and Jupiter dasa run till 20 years. Based on the second source of strength, Aries wins over Libra and 7-year Mars dasa runs from 20 years of age to 27 years. Mars in AL in fiery Aries made him kill a lot of demons. He also learnt about a lot of weapons from Viswamitra. Due to UL also being in Aries with Mars, Mars dasa gave wedding too. With Mars being in 10th house, Mars dasa gave the coronation plan too. But, 14-year Saturn dasa took him to forests for 14 years. The above is just one hypothetical example. One can come up with many such variations. Bottomline is that I (and some other scholars) will find it very very hard to believe that Valmiki would say Rama was born in Punarvasu if his Moon was in Pushyami. This makes Sun's placement in Aries look highly dubious. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha > |Bhargodevaasya|> Dear Narasimha, Namaste.> If Sun was in Pisces, then how to we explain that his name - Ram is associated with divinity today, if the Arudha Lagna doesn't have a fiery graha in devaamsa? Would you expect Mars in Kendra to fulfill that role?> Best wishes> Visti Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2003 Report Share Posted July 20, 2003 Dear Sanjay, If you say that there is no controversy in Rama's chart, I disagree. There is enough controversy. Most scholars actually believe that Moon is in Punarvasu nakshatra (unlike you). Still, some accept Sun in Aries not realizing that it is impossible for Sun to be in Aries on a Sukla Navami day with Moon in Punarvasu. I am not the first to question it. In fact, I understand some scholars actually have totally different versions of Rama's chart. The bottomline is that I disagree that there is no controversy in Rama's chart. It is misleading to say so. If tradition cannot even accurately remember the chart of Krishna, who came to earth just 5,000 years back, how can we expect it to accurately remember the chart of Rama, who came here a couple of millions of years ago? Obviously, it was the guesswork of some scholar some while ago. Actually, in Krishna's chart, it is possible to determine the exact date and time and find a genuine chart (as opposed to a hypothetical chart) and look at all divisions etc and explain all life events. In Rama's case, one can take a chart one likes and justify it with extremely erudite interpretations. But it serves little purpose. We cannot get a "real" chart based on real planetary movements. In Krishna's case, we can do more thorough and conclusive research, because we can find "real" charts based on real planetary movements. In Rama's case, due to the lack of astrology software that computes Treta yuga charts, we cannot find the correct date and time. I am hopeful that I will see an accurate chart of Krishna in this lifetime. I don't have the same hope regarding Rama's chart. If a team wants to do research, Krishna's chart is definitely a better starting point. We can find the charts of Krishna, Arjuna, Dharmaraja, Bheema etc and explain all the events of Mahabharata. THAT is something we may be able to do in the next few decades. Rama...I doubt it. As for researching Moola dasa rules vs Narayana dasa rules, we can definitely do far more reliable research using the charts of normal 19th and 20th century people. I agree that it will be nice to explain all the events of Ramayana and Mahabharata. But, if we just "manufacture" highly scholarly and convincing-sounding explanations based on dubious data, it serves little purpose. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha PS: Whenever I do Satya Narayana vratam, I notice when invoking Nava Grahas that the mantras refer to the tithi and nakshatra of the birth of each planet. For example, Sun's mantra says he was born on Prabhava Maagha Sukla Saptami on a Sunday in Aswini nakshatra. Moon's mantra says he was born on Saumya Kaartika Pournimasya on a Monday in Krittika nakshatra. One wonders how the tithi at the birth of Sun or Moon is defined. It is defined based on the angle made by Sun and Moon at earth. How do you define it when one of them is born and the other is not yet born? Moreover, Sun was not born on earth. He was born somewhere in space. How do you define tithi and nakshatra for Sun's birth? PPS: You used the mantra "Jaya Guru" below. You told me never to place Devata in 6th. But this is a 2-4-6 mantra with Devata in 6th. Why? > Jaya Guru > Dear Narasimha> That is precisely the point. The research is to be done on various charts so that we can understand the chart of Sri Rama. All those issues about exaltation, debilitation, addition, loss of years, destruction of the nodes by Jupiter etc which I know and have told have to be examined w.r.t their relevance to the Moola dasa as it is very different from Narayana dasa. Can we adopt those rules or not is my question and this is where real work is required.> The nakshatra does not alter the sequence of Sri Rama's chart. this is the chart which has been used since ages and at least in this chart there has not been any controversy (unlike Krishna's chart where each parampara has it s own chart and yet they enjoy discussing about krishna's chart and try to understand Bhagavan). The point is that just learning Moola dasa is one thing - learning spirituaity with jyotish is another. Of what use is it to me to know that I will die...I already know it. The real flavor of Jyotish is in understanding Ramayana & the Mahabharata. The day SJC is able to explain every event astrologically , that day our mission would have been achieved. till then we struggle.> That is why I wanted to form a team to study this seriously. Please consider and start on an auspicious day. May He guide you.> Yours truly, > Sanjay Rath > Mail: H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > E-mail: srath@s... srath@v... daivagyna@s... > Web: http://srath.com http://.org > ----~om tat sat~-------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 Jaya Guru Dear Narasimha, Dear Sanjay, If you say that there is no controversy in Rama's chart, I disagree. There is enough controversy. Most scholars actually believe that Moon is in Punarvasu nakshatra (unlike you). Still, some accept Sun in Aries not realizing that it is impossible for Sun to be in Aries on a Sukla Navami day with Moon in Punarvasu. I am not the first to question it. In fact, I understand some scholars actually have totally different versions of Rama's chart. The bottomline is that I disagree that there is no controversy in Rama's chart. It is misleading to say so.[s.Rath:] Oh yes there is now. In my early days of Jyotish at least this was not refuted. I don't know how people can take Sun in Aries and Moon in Punarvasu on navami. They must have failed all classes in mathematics. I use sun in Aries and Lagna in Punarvasu. In any case the basic planetary positions continue in the signs as is required for Moola dasa. If tradition cannot even accurately remember the chart of Krishna, who came to earth just 5,000 years back, how can we expect it to accurately remember the chart of Rama, who came here a couple of millions of years ago? Obviously, it was the guesswork of some scholar some while ago.[s.Rath:] There are different versions - you can see the comments of Dr.B.V.Raman on this where he has disagreed with his grandfather. Sometime back I posted the chart of Lord Narasimhadeva as well. So, the charts are there but is our level of Jyotish good enough to pick the right one and draw it? The level will increase provided we work towards the objective. Actually, in Krishna's chart, it is possible to determine the exact date and time and find a genuine chart (as opposed to a hypothetical chart) and look at all divisions etc and explain all life events.[s.Rath:] Problem is in the definition of the divisions - the devalokamsa etc definitions need real research work. Until refuted, the chart that I use is very similar to that of Dr.Raman and has so far explained all the events. Maybe it will improve as my understanding grows. In Rama's case, one can take a chart one likes and justify it with extremely erudite interpretations. But it serves little purpose. We cannot get a "real" chart based on real planetary movements. In Krishna's case, we can do more thorough and conclusive research, because we can find "real" charts based on real planetary movements. In Rama's case, due to the lack of astrology software that computes Treta yuga charts, we cannot find the correct date and time.[s.Rath:] Fine but then a chart is given. Why should I disbelieve the writings of Valmiki or any of the seers unless harder proof is available. I am hopeful that I will see an accurate chart of Krishna in this lifetime. I don't have the same hope regarding Rama's chart.[s.Rath:] We will see krishna's chart - the day we understand the meaning of the divisions..Rama's chart is a different issue and till I get something better than what is already available, i will use it. Maybe not for the research, but then after the research is done, we can use the information to check the extent to which the chart of Sri Rama is correct. If a team wants to do research, Krishna's chart is definitely a better starting point. We can find the charts of Krishna, Arjuna, Dharmaraja, Bheema etc and explain all the events of Mahabharata. THAT is something we may be able to do in the next few decades. Rama...I doubt it.[s.Rath:] No not now. We will be jumping - let us first fix the Moola dasa rules. Then we do research on the divisions and then we will come back to these charts. As for researching Moola dasa rules vs Narayana dasa rules, we can definitely do far more reliable research using the charts of normal 19th and 20th century people.[s.Rath:] Of course. Please start and list your team for this work. Members of these lists who are interested should send their names to you and you can choose the team. I agree that it will be nice to explain all the events of Ramayana and Mahabharata. But, if we just "manufacture" highly scholarly and convincing-sounding explanations based on dubious data, it serves little purpose.[s.Rath:] Yes thats right. So lets try to approach this systematically. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha PS: Whenever I do Satya Narayana vratam, I notice when invoking Nava Grahas that the mantras refer to the tithi and nakshatra of the birth of each planet. For example, Sun's mantra says he was born on Prabhava Maagha Sukla Saptami on a Sunday in Aswini nakshatra. Moon's mantra says he was born on Saumya Kaartika Pournimasya on a Monday in Krittika nakshatra. One wonders how the tithi at the birth of Sun or Moon is defined. It is defined based on the angle made by Sun and Moon at earth. How do you define it when one of them is born and the other is not yet born? Moreover, Sun was not born on earth. He was born somewhere in space. How do you define tithi and nakshatra for Sun's birth?[s.Rath:] This is listed as partof the basic information for the planets. What you write for the Sun is different from my list. Sun was born in Kalinga in Kashyapa gotra, saptami tithi, Dhanistha naksatra, Kshyatriya Jaati, Rakta varna. He was seated in the middle of the graha mandala (madhya) and has two hands holding padma astra, adorned with rakta chandana gandha, kaniara flowers, rakta mala, rakta vastra. His abhushana is the kirita and his chariot has 7 horses. Shiva is pratyadhi and Agni is adhi devata; He rules the Kapila mukha of Agni, and faces east (purva mukha), while his drishti is upwards (urdhva dristi). His body is made of copper and he like gugula dhupa, manikya (ruby) ratna, foods of jagerry (Bali karma). Arka wood samhita is used for his mantras in yagya and his tapas sankhya is 6000 ...fruits etc etc.. this is a very long list. Don't you all know all this? Its basics. PPS: You used the mantra "Jaya Guru" below. You told me never to place Devata in 6th. But this is a 2-4-6 mantra with Devata in 6th. Why?[s.Rath:] This is not a mantra. It is a way of initiating writing which should be initiated after Narayanam namaskritya...etc. Always start writing after bowing to the guru with Jaya vani. Others use 'shri' which is the guru bija. Yours truly, Sanjay Rath Mail: H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India E-mail: srath (AT) srath (DOT) com srath (AT) vsnl (DOT) com daivagyna (AT) sify (DOT) com Web: http://srath.com http://.org ----~om tat sat~-------------- > Jaya Guru > Dear Narasimha> That is precisely the point. The research is to be done on various charts so that we can understand the chart of Sri Rama. All those issues about exaltation, debilitation, addition, loss of years, destruction of the nodes by Jupiter etc which I know and have told have to be examined w.r.t their relevance to the Moola dasa as it is very different from Narayana dasa. Can we adopt those rules or not is my question and this is where real work is required.> The nakshatra does not alter the sequence of Sri Rama's chart. this is the chart which has been used since ages and at least in this chart there has not been any controversy (unlike Krishna's chart where each parampara has it s own chart and yet they enjoy discussing about krishna's chart and try to understand Bhagavan). The point is that just learning Moola dasa is one thing - learning spirituaity with jyotish is another. Of what use is it to me to know that I will die...I already know it. The real flavor of Jyotish is in understanding Ramayana & the Mahabharata. The day SJC is able to explain every event astrologically , that day our mission would have been achieved. till then we struggle.> That is why I wanted to form a team to study this seriously. Please consider and start on an auspicious day. May He guide you.> Yours truly, > Sanjay Rath > Mail: H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > E-mail: srath@s... srath@v... daivagyna@s... > Web: http://srath.com http://.org > ----~om tat sat~-------------- Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Attachment: [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 Dear Sanjayji and Narashimha Raoji, I am not one who is an expert in ganita part of astrology, but does this matter relate in anyway to the matter of krantipata being in Vaisakha in ancient times and now happening 20days earlier? I understand that it shifts earleir at the rate of 50 Vikala per year. Or does this have to do anything with the ancient practice of rationalising Saura and Chandramaas every five years in ancient times? Would there be a posibility of such situation arising if the Sayana sun position is reffered by the sages?Of course the mathematics applied today cannot give Punarvasu Moon and Aries Sun at Shukla Navami is just not possible. I am certain you will forgive me if I have put up irrelevant query. Regards, Chandrashekhar. Sanjay Rath [daivagyna (AT) sify (DOT) com]Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 7:06 PMvedic astrologySubject: RE: [vedic astrology] Re: EVENT DETAILS OF SHREE RAM Jaya Guru Dear Narasimha, Dear Sanjay, If you say that there is no controversy in Rama's chart, I disagree. There is enough controversy. Most scholars actually believe that Moon is in Punarvasu nakshatra (unlike you). Still, some accept Sun in Aries not realizing that it is impossible for Sun to be in Aries on a Sukla Navami day with Moon in Punarvasu. I am not the first to question it. In fact, I understand some scholars actually have totally different versions of Rama's chart. The bottomline is that I disagree that there is no controversy in Rama's chart. It is misleading to say so.[s.Rath:] Oh yes there is now. In my early days of Jyotish at least this was not refuted. I don't know how people can take Sun in Aries and Moon in Punarvasu on navami. They must have failed all classes in mathematics. I use sun in Aries and Lagna in Punarvasu. In any case the basic planetary positions continue in the signs as is required for Moola dasa. If tradition cannot even accurately remember the chart of Krishna, who came to earth just 5,000 years back, how can we expect it to accurately remember the chart of Rama, who came here a couple of millions of years ago? Obviously, it was the guesswork of some scholar some while ago.[s.Rath:] There are different versions - you can see the comments of Dr.B.V.Raman on this where he has disagreed with his grandfather. Sometime back I posted the chart of Lord Narasimhadeva as well. So, the charts are there but is our level of Jyotish good enough to pick the right one and draw it? The level will increase provided we work towards the objective. Actually, in Krishna's chart, it is possible to determine the exact date and time and find a genuine chart (as opposed to a hypothetical chart) and look at all divisions etc and explain all life events.[s.Rath:] Problem is in the definition of the divisions - the devalokamsa etc definitions need real research work. Until refuted, the chart that I use is very similar to that of Dr.Raman and has so far explained all the events. Maybe it will improve as my understanding grows. In Rama's case, one can take a chart one likes and justify it with extremely erudite interpretations. But it serves little purpose. We cannot get a "real" chart based on real planetary movements. In Krishna's case, we can do more thorough and conclusive research, because we can find "real" charts based on real planetary movements. In Rama's case, due to the lack of astrology software that computes Treta yuga charts, we cannot find the correct date and time.[s.Rath:] Fine but then a chart is given. Why should I disbelieve the writings of Valmiki or any of the seers unless harder proof is available. I am hopeful that I will see an accurate chart of Krishna in this lifetime. I don't have the same hope regarding Rama's chart.[s.Rath:] We will see krishna's chart - the day we understand the meaning of the divisions..Rama's chart is a different issue and till I get something better than what is already available, i will use it. Maybe not for the research, but then after the research is done, we can use the information to check the extent to which the chart of Sri Rama is correct. If a team wants to do research, Krishna's chart is definitely a better starting point. We can find the charts of Krishna, Arjuna, Dharmaraja, Bheema etc and explain all the events of Mahabharata. THAT is something we may be able to do in the next few decades. Rama...I doubt it.[s.Rath:] No not now. We will be jumping - let us first fix the Moola dasa rules. Then we do research on the divisions and then we will come back to these charts. As for researching Moola dasa rules vs Narayana dasa rules, we can definitely do far more reliable research using the charts of normal 19th and 20th century people.[s.Rath:] Of course. Please start and list your team for this work. Members of these lists who are interested should send their names to you and you can choose the team. I agree that it will be nice to explain all the events of Ramayana and Mahabharata. But, if we just "manufacture" highly scholarly and convincing-sounding explanations based on dubious data, it serves little purpose.[s.Rath:] Yes thats right. So lets try to approach this systematically. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha PS: Whenever I do Satya Narayana vratam, I notice when invoking Nava Grahas that the mantras refer to the tithi and nakshatra of the birth of each planet. For example, Sun's mantra says he was born on Prabhava Maagha Sukla Saptami on a Sunday in Aswini nakshatra. Moon's mantra says he was born on Saumya Kaartika Pournimasya on a Monday in Krittika nakshatra. One wonders how the tithi at the birth of Sun or Moon is defined. It is defined based on the angle made by Sun and Moon at earth. How do you define it when one of them is born and the other is not yet born? Moreover, Sun was not born on earth. He was born somewhere in space. How do you define tithi and nakshatra for Sun's birth?[s.Rath:] This is listed as partof the basic information for the planets. What you write for the Sun is different from my list. Sun was born in Kalinga in Kashyapa gotra, saptami tithi, Dhanistha naksatra, Kshyatriya Jaati, Rakta varna. He was seated in the middle of the graha mandala (madhya) and has two hands holding padma astra, adorned with rakta chandana gandha, kaniara flowers, rakta mala, rakta vastra. His abhushana is the kirita and his chariot has 7 horses. Shiva is pratyadhi and Agni is adhi devata; He rules the Kapila mukha of Agni, and faces east (purva mukha), while his drishti is upwards (urdhva dristi). His body is made of copper and he like gugula dhupa, manikya (ruby) ratna, foods of jagerry (Bali karma). Arka wood samhita is used for his mantras in yagya and his tapas sankhya is 6000 ...fruits etc etc.. this is a very long list. Don't you all know all this? Its basics. PPS: You used the mantra "Jaya Guru" below. You told me never to place Devata in 6th. But this is a 2-4-6 mantra with Devata in 6th. Why?[s.Rath:] This is not a mantra. It is a way of initiating writing which should be initiated after Narayanam namaskritya...etc. Always start writing after bowing to the guru with Jaya vani. Others use 'shri' which is the guru bija. Yours truly, Sanjay Rath Mail: H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India E-mail: srath (AT) srath (DOT) com srath (AT) vsnl (DOT) com daivagyna (AT) sify (DOT) com Web: http://srath.com http://.org ----~om tat sat~-------------- > Jaya Guru > Dear Narasimha> That is precisely the point. The research is to be done on various charts so that we can understand the chart of Sri Rama. All those issues about exaltation, debilitation, addition, loss of years, destruction of the nodes by Jupiter etc which I know and have told have to be examined w.r.t their relevance to the Moola dasa as it is very different from Narayana dasa. Can we adopt those rules or not is my question and this is where real work is required.> The nakshatra does not alter the sequence of Sri Rama's chart. this is the chart which has been used since ages and at least in this chart there has not been any controversy (unlike Krishna's chart where each parampara has it s own chart and yet they enjoy discussing about krishna's chart and try to understand Bhagavan). The point is that just learning Moola dasa is one thing - learning spirituaity with jyotish is another. Of what use is it to me to know that I will die...I already know it. The real flavor of Jyotish is in understanding Ramayana & the Mahabharata. The day SJC is able to explain every event astrologically , that day our mission would have been achieved. till then we struggle.> That is why I wanted to form a team to study this seriously. Please consider and start on an auspicious day. May He guide you.> Yours truly, > Sanjay Rath > Mail: H-5 B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India > E-mail: srath@s... srath@v... daivagyna@s... > Web: http://srath.com http://.org > ----~om tat sat~-------------- Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Attachment: (image/bmp) gurunamah.bmp [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 Namaste Chandrashekhar ji, The tithi does not depend on the kranthi. Tithi does not depend on ayanamsa also. As long as you take Sun's and Moon's positions using the same ayanamsa, the tithi is the same. Regarding Sun's position, Sage Valmiki never specifically mentioned Sun's position. He only said that the nakshatra was Punarvasu, tithi was Chaitra Sukla Navami, Cancer was rising with Moon and Jupiter in it, and five planets were in "swochha" rasis. Swochcha (swa+uchcha) rasis can mean "own exaltation signs", i.e. simply exaltation signs (as interpreted commonly). This requires five planets to be exalted and so people think that Sun has to be one of the five planets (because they know that Moon is not exalted and both Venus and Mercury cannot be exalted together - BTW, this assumption may or may not be true in Treta yuga. I have to do some math to verify). Thus people concluded that Sun, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn must be exalted. That is how they came up with the chart we know today. People don't recognize the possibility of Rahu and Ketu being two of the five exalted planets! That opens up more possibilities. Also, swochcha can mean swa or uchcha (own or exaltation) rasis. That means 3 planets can be in exaltation signs and 2 in own signs, for example. This opens up many more possibilities. One can also suggest that the Sage mixed nirayana positions with sayana positions and arrived at five planets. I don't buy that logic. I honestly don't think that the chart many use for Rama today is right. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha > Dear Sanjayji and Narashimha Raoji,> I am not one who is an expert in ganita part of astrology, but does this> matter relate in anyway to the matter of krantipata being in Vaisakha in> ancient times and now happening 20days earlier? I understand that it shifts> earleir at the rate of 50 Vikala per year. Or does this have to do anything> with the ancient practice of rationalising Saura and Chandramaas every five> years in ancient times? Would there be a posibility of such situation> arising if the Sayana sun position is reffered by the sages?Of course the> mathematics applied today cannot give Punarvasu Moon and Aries Sun at Shukla> Navami is just not possible.> I am certain you will forgive me if I have put up irrelevant query.> Regards,> Chandrashekhar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 Pranaam Sanjay, > The bottomline is that I disagree that there is no controversy > in Rama's chart. It is misleading to say so.> [s.Rath:] Oh yes there is now. In my early days of Jyotish > at least this was not refuted. I don't know how people can take > Sun in Aries and Moon in Punarvasu on navami. They must have > failed all classes in mathematics. Or they must have not paid attention. The latter is more like it. > I use sun in Aries and Lagna in Punarvasu. For Lakshmana, Bharata etc, Valmiki mentioned Chandra nakshatra as the nakshatra. Why did he mention lagna nakshatra as the birth nakshatra only for Rama? Can you mention any other occasions when Valmiki or Vyasa mentioned lagna nakshatra as somebody's birth nakshatra? Would you say that you were born in Uttarabhadra nakshatra because your lagna in Pisces is stronger than your Moon in Aquarius? When your grandfather wrote your horoscope, did he write Uttarabhadra as your nakshatra? Whenever your grandfather got poojas performed at temples in your name, did he say "Uttarabhadra nakshatra jaatasya" regarding your nakshatra? > In any case the basic planetary positions continue > in the signs as is required for Moola dasa. Nope. If Sun goes to Pisces, it changes Moola dasa. If we take the position that five planets must be in exaltation, we will now have to compensate for Sun's non-exaltation by placing both the nodes in exaltation. That means another planet out of Venus, Saturn and Mars is not exalted (because Jupiter and nodes take 3 out of 5 slots). All this changes Moola dasa calculations considerably. > Actually, in Krishna's chart, it is possible to determine the exact > date and time and find a genuine chart (as opposed to a > hypothetical chart) and look at all divisions etc and explain all life > events.> [s.Rath:] Problem is in the definition of the divisions - the > devalokamsa etc definitions need real research work. Until refuted, Yes, but Krishna's is the only chart that promises genuine research and real results. In the case of Ramachandra, Narasimhadeva etc, one can construct any chart, give erudite explanations and be satisfied. There is no pudding and hence no proof. If you think research into Krishna's chart is a long shot, research into the charts of previous avataras is a much much much much longer shot. Here I am not referring to being satisfied with a hypothetical chart constructed by someone in the past. > the chart that I use is very similar to that of Dr.Raman and has so far > explained all the events. Maybe it will improve as my understanding > grows. I always look at the expression "explained all the events" with suspicion. It's a funny expression. You know better than hiding behind such an expression. I don't know the correct chart, but I guarantee you that the chart used by Dr. Raman cannot be the one. Whatever definition you use for Devalokamsa etc, you cannot get two raja yoga giving planets in Devalokamsa with that chart. It is certainly not the right chart. > [s.Rath:] No not now. We will be jumping - let us first fix the Moola > dasa rules. Then we do research on the divisions and then we will come > back to these charts. I re-iterate my stand. It is unwise to use Rama's hypothetical chart to "fix" Moola dasa rules. One should not over-react to criticism of some mistakes one made. If you want to fine-tune Moola dasa rules, use normal 19th and 20th century charts. > [s.Rath:] Fine but then a chart is given. Why should I disbelieve the > writings of Valmiki or any of the seers unless harder proof is available. This is very unfair, Sanjay. In order to undermine the argument of the other person, you are trying to put (hijack) the weight of Valmiki behind your position. How can anyone say that my position amounts to "disbelieving" Valmiki? Please realize that Valmiki did not give the chart you are using. Somebody else gave it. Valmiki only said that the tithi was Chaitra Sukla Navami, nakshatra (Moon's, by default) was Punarvasu, rising sign was Cancer with Moon and Jupiter in it, and, five planets were in "swochcha" rasis. He never gave any chart. In fact, please quote me the name of a seer who clearly gave the chart you are using. > [s.Rath:] This is listed as partof the basic information for the planets. > What you write for the Sun is different from my list. Sun was born in > Kalinga in Kashyapa gotra, saptami tithi, Dhanistha naksatra, Kshyatriya > Jaati, Rakta varna. He was seated in the middle of the graha mandala > (madhya) and has two hands holding padma astra, adorned with rakta > chandana gandha, kaniara flowers, rakta mala, rakta vastra. His > abhushana is the kirita and his chariot has 7 horses. Shiva is pratyadhi > and Agni is adhi devata; He rules the Kapila mukha of Agni, and faces > east (purva mukha), while his drishti is upwards (urdhva dristi). His > body is made of copper and he like gugula dhupa, manikya (ruby) > ratna, foods of jagerry (Bali karma). Arka wood samhita is used for his > mantras in yagya and his tapas sankhya is 6000 ...fruits etc etc.. this > is a very long list. Don't you all know all this? Its basics. Yes, it's basics and the invocation mantra I was referring to actually covers most of the things you mentioned. I did not mention the whole mantra and mentioned only the part related to tithi and nakshatra of Sun's birth. It is intersting to know that there are different versions of birthdata. Anyway, my curiosity was regarding the definition of tithi and nakshatra at the birth of Sun and Moon. You haven't said anything regarding that! May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Dear Narasimha raoji, I have not suggested that the chart is right. I was only trying to find out the mathematical possibility that it might be right. So with Sayana Sun ,is it likely that Moon and Sun can be squaring each other with Moon in Punarvasu? I asked this to increase my own knowledge about Ganita. I remember having read somewhere that in times by gone Aries fell in a different nakshtra than that indicated in modern times, and as you are an expert in ganita skanda, I asked the query. If you want my personal opinion, the posibility of Sun being in 9th in Prabhu Rama's chart is more likely based on ramayana. But this is my personal opinion and could be wrong.Kindly elaborate about different Nakshtra falling in ancient times than in modern times, is this information correct? Regards, Chandrashekhar. Narasimha P.V.R. Rao [pvr (AT) charter (DOT) net]Tuesday, July 22, 2003 8:37 AMTo: vedic astrologySubject: [vedic astrology] Re: EVENT DETAILS OF SHREE RAM Namaste Chandrashekhar ji, The tithi does not depend on the kranthi. Tithi does not depend on ayanamsa also. As long as you take Sun's and Moon's positions using the same ayanamsa, the tithi is the same. Regarding Sun's position, Sage Valmiki never specifically mentioned Sun's position. He only said that the nakshatra was Punarvasu, tithi was Chaitra Sukla Navami, Cancer was rising with Moon and Jupiter in it, and five planets were in "swochha" rasis. Swochcha (swa+uchcha) rasis can mean "own exaltation signs", i.e. simply exaltation signs (as interpreted commonly). This requires five planets to be exalted and so people think that Sun has to be one of the five planets (because they know that Moon is not exalted and both Venus and Mercury cannot be exalted together - BTW, this assumption may or may not be true in Treta yuga. I have to do some math to verify). Thus people concluded that Sun, Mars, Jupiter, Venus and Saturn must be exalted. That is how they came up with the chart we know today. People don't recognize the possibility of Rahu and Ketu being two of the five exalted planets! That opens up more possibilities. Also, swochcha can mean swa or uchcha (own or exaltation) rasis. That means 3 planets can be in exaltation signs and 2 in own signs, for example. This opens up many more possibilities. One can also suggest that the Sage mixed nirayana positions with sayana positions and arrived at five planets. I don't buy that logic. I honestly don't think that the chart many use for Rama today is right. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha > Dear Sanjayji and Narashimha Raoji,> I am not one who is an expert in ganita part of astrology, but does this> matter relate in anyway to the matter of krantipata being in Vaisakha in> ancient times and now happening 20days earlier? I understand that it shifts> earleir at the rate of 50 Vikala per year. Or does this have to do anything> with the ancient practice of rationalising Saura and Chandramaas every five> years in ancient times? Would there be a posibility of such situation> arising if the Sayana sun position is reffered by the sages?Of course the> mathematics applied today cannot give Punarvasu Moon and Aries Sun at Shukla> Navami is just not possible.> I am certain you will forgive me if I have put up irrelevant query.> Regards,> Chandrashekhar.Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......|| Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Dear Sanjay and Narasimha, Hare Rama Krsna! > I am hopeful that I will see an accurate chart of Krishna in this >lifetime. I don't have the same hope regarding Rama's chart. Some additional info that might help in finding Krsna's chart I took from the Bible. In the chronology described in my school-Bible, it gives dates of the deluge, which happened roundabout 2200 BC, and it describes the arrival of Abraham, one of the descendants of Noach, who alone survived the great deluge. The Bible describes the longevity of Noach as 950 years, and he lived for 350 years after the great deluge. His sons also became about 800-900 years, then gradually and very quickly the descendants became more or less 700, 600, 400, 200, and lastly Abraham still became about 200 years, but others of his sons reached only to about 120-150 years. It is clear that the sandhya between dwapara and kali-yuga took place here around this timing in history, and that longevity in dwapara yuga was 1000 years. I don't see any reason why this part of Bible would be corrupted, since it is part of old Testament, and part of Jewish tradition, having little to do with modern Christian Church, who merely changed things in New Testament, describing the life of Jesus. So I believe that we have to look around this time of about 1900-1800 BC to find Lord Krishna's chart, since He lived a life of 125 years and is said to have appeared at the sandhya between Dwapara and Kali-yuga. Yours, Dhira Krsna dasa, Jyotisha http://www.radhadesh.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 |Daxinamurtaaye Namah|Dear Dhira, As much as i like your references to the Old Testament, the problem also lies in the definition of 'normal' lifespan. As you allready know, the lifespan of a Rishi/Saint is well beyond that of a normal mortal. So watch out and check whose lifespan your commenting on. Then we also have the paradox of why Sri Krishna only 'decided' to live for 125 years. Best wishesVisti---Sri Jagannath Center: http://.orgBhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgiTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org - Dhira Krsna BCS vedic astrology Tuesday, July 22, 2003 9:58 PM [vedic astrology] Re: EVENT DETAILS OF SHREE RAM Dear Sanjay and Narasimha,Hare Rama Krsna!> I am hopeful that I will see an accurate chart of Krishna in this>lifetime. I don't have the same hope regarding Rama's chart.Some additional info that might help in finding Krsna's chart I took fromthe Bible. In the chronology described in my school-Bible, it gives datesof the deluge, which happened roundabout 2200 BC, and it describes thearrival of Abraham, one of the descendants of Noach, who alone survivedthe great deluge. The Bible describes the longevity of Noach as 950 years,and he lived for 350 years after the great deluge. His sons also becameabout 800-900 years, then gradually and very quickly the descendantsbecame more or less 700, 600, 400, 200, and lastly Abraham still becameabout 200 years, but others of his sons reached only to about 120-150years. It is clear that the sandhya between dwapara and kali-yuga tookplace here around this timing in history, and that longevity in dwaparayuga was 1000 years.I don't see any reason why this part of Bible would be corrupted, since itis part of old Testament, and part of Jewish tradition, having little todo with modern Christian Church, who merely changed things in NewTestament, describing the life of Jesus. So I believe that we have to lookaround this time of about 1900-1800 BC to find Lord Krishna's chart, sinceHe lived a life of 125 years and is said to have appeared at the sandhyabetween Dwapara and Kali-yuga.Yours,Dhira Krsna dasa,Jyotishahttp://www.radhadesh.comArchives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Attachment: (application/octet-stream) Kali Yuga-1.jhd [not stored] Attachment: (application/octet-stream) Kali Yuga-2.jhd [not stored] Attachment: (application/octet-stream) Kali Yuga-3.jhd [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 || Om Gurave Namah || Dear Viswanadham, The Vimshottari Dasa needs to just repeat the cycle based on the Yuga. The period of 120 Years derived for Vimshottari is based on 120 degrees present between one Gandanta (say for e.g.. Aries to Leo junction) to another and the fact that One Year of Humans equals 1 day of Devas. This equation between One day of Devas to One Year of Humans does not change with yuga. Warm Regards, S. Prabhakaran - vishwanatham vedic astrology Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:19 AM [vedic astrology] EVENT DETAILS OF SHREE RAM Hare Rama KrishnaPranam Sanjayji,If the poorna Ayush is 4 times (500 years) in Dwapara yuga (this is also mentioned in Prasna Marga), how do we calculate Moola Dasa periods for Bhagawan Sri Rama Chandra Moorty? In this case the Vimshottari Dasa periods should add up to 500 years or is there any other way to do it?Please clarify.Thanks & regardsviswanadham--- In vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" <daivagyna@s...> wrote:> > > aia gurursarasvatyai svaha> Dear Dhira Krsna> If the periods of the Yugas are increased by steps, then why sould longevity not be doubled?> Satya = 4> Treta = 3> Dvapara = 2> Kali = 1> Longevity> Dvapara = 2 X Kali = 125 X 2 = 250> Treta = 2 x Dvapara = 250 X 2 = 500> Satya = 2 X Treta = 500 X 2 = 1000 years> Does this not sound more logical? Only thing required is a reference from the Purana...maybe it is there.> Perhaps this is applicable only for manushya Jataka and not Dhruva maharaj or Sri Prahalada or such souls which by themselves are spiritually so evolved to qualify for "Amitayus Jataka"...maybe.> You think ADAM can mean Adi-Manu? > The only way to work on the chart of Sri Krishna is to try to fix the end of Kali yuga. I have attached three charts. If others have more, please attach them.> ~ om tat sat ~> Yours truly,> Sanjay Rath> P.S. Narasimha I am too tied down with the writeups for the conferences. We will continue this in the US. Please keep Jataka Parijatha, Bhavishya Purana and Vishnu Purana handy.> ---------------------------> H-5, B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India, +91-674-2436871 http://srath.com > ---------------------------> > -----Original Message-----> Dhira Krsna BCS [Dhira.Krsna.BCS@p...]> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:28 AM> vedic astrology> Subject: [vedic astrology] Re: EVENT DETAILS OF SHREE RAM> > > Dear Sanjay and Narasimha,> > Hare Rama Krsna!> > > I am hopeful that I will see an accurate chart of Krishna in this> >lifetime. I don't have the same hope regarding Rama's chart.> > Some additional info that might help in finding Krsna's chart I took from> the Bible. In the chronology described in my school-Bible, it gives dates> of the deluge, which happened roundabout 2200 BC, and it describes the> arrival of Abraham, one of the descendants of Noach, who alone survived> the great deluge. The Bible describes the longevity of Noach as 950 years,> and he lived for 350 years after the great deluge. His sons also became> about 800-900 years, then gradually and very quickly the descendants> became more or less 700, 600, 400, 200, and lastly Abraham still became> about 200 years, but others of his sons reached only to about 120-150> years. It is clear that the sandhya between dwapara and kali-yuga took> place here around this timing in history, and that longevity in dwapara> yuga was 1000 years.> > I don't see any reason why this part of Bible would be corrupted, since it> is part of old Testament, and part of Jewish tradition, having little to> do with modern Christian Church, who merely changed things in New> Testament, describing the life of Jesus. So I believe that we have to look> around this time of about 1900-1800 BC to find Lord Krishna's chart, since> He lived a life of 125 years and is said to have appeared at the sandhya> between Dwapara and Kali-yuga.> > Yours,> Dhira Krsna dasa,> Jyotisha> http://www.radhadesh.com> > Groups Sponsor > > > > > > Archives: vedic astrology> > Group info: vedic astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri Krishnaarpanamastu || > > Terms of Service.Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 Dear Sanjay Rath, Jaya Guru! > Does this not sound more logical? Only thing required is a reference >from the Purana...maybe it is there. Yes, it certainly sounds logical. I only depend upon the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, who mentioned it like this. I'll look further if I can find some scriptural reference for this. An excerpt from a lecture by Srila Prabhupada I have reproduced below. The point being that a full divya-yuga is 10 times the duration of 1 Kali-yuga, maybe this is the factor decreasing the life duration in the successive yugas. >Perhaps this is applicable only for manushya Jataka and not Dhruva >maharaj or Sri Prahalada or such souls which by themselves are >spiritually so evolved to qualify for "Amitayus Jataka"...maybe. Certainly such pure devotees do not abide by the common natural laws. > You think ADAM can mean Adi-Manu? I have a book by Stephen Knapp with references of Vedic culture all over the world. In his book, he describes that ADAM was a Jewish name which was originally Adda or Adammu, a Babylonian name for the Aryan King Iksvaku, or the first created man on Earth (also according to Bhagavad-gita Ch4.1). The Jewish believe he appeared about 3761 BC. The other biblical names like Enoch, Noach etc were also names given by the Babylonian culture for great kings in India. Interesting is also that the name Jerusalem, the Holy city, is coming from Yedu-ishalayam, or Yadu-isha-alayam, the abode of the lord of the Yadus, in other words Krsna. So whether all these kings lived millions of years ago, and are still remembered vividly even in other cultures, I don't know. Krsna doesn't mention any of these numbers literally in Bhagavad-gita, or am I mistaken? Perhaps they were also other kings with the same name? I couldn't open the charts of end of kali-yuga which you attached. Probably they're out of range of my jhl 5 ephemeris. Srimad-Bhagavatam mentions at that time Sun,Moon and Jupiter enter simultaneously into Pushya nakshatra. Yours sincerely, Dhira Krsna dasa Quote from Srila Prabhupada: "So daya. Daya means you should show your mercifulness those who are weak. So this will reduce, Daya. And ayuh, duration of life. Duration of life. In the Satya-yuga the duration of life was 100,000's years. A man used to live for 100,000's of years. Then in the Treta-yuga it reduced ten times. They used to live for 10,000 years. Then in Dvapara-yuga it reduced again ten times. They used to live for 1,000 years. And now, in the Kali-yuga, the duration of life is prescribed as 100 years. But you see that it is reducing. Everyone may note it. Perhaps your grandfather lived for 100 years. Your father lived for 80 years. And nowadays, 60 or 70 years. Gradually, it will so reduce, we shall come to that statement, that if a man lives for 20 to 30 years he will be considered a very grand old man. If he lives for 20 to 30 years he'll be considered, "Oh, you have got very good life." That will come, gradually. This is the progressive age. Progressive age for material civilization." © 1991 by Bhaktivedanta Book Trust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2003 Report Share Posted July 26, 2003 Dear All, Sorry if this is a naive question, but how do we know Lord Rama's chart. Is there some reference to it in the literature or has it been deduced based on the narrative, HIs actions and personality etc. ? Love, Gili _______________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2003 Report Share Posted July 26, 2003 Dear Gili, > Dear All, > Sorry if this is a naive question, but how do we know Lord Rama's chart. Is > there some reference to it in the literature or has it been deduced based on > the narrative, HIs actions and personality etc. ? > Love, Gili The chart is not given in any literature. However, Sage Valmiki, author of Ramayana, mentioned the following: (1) Rama was born on Chaitra Sukla Navami tithi (2) Rama was born in Punarvasu constellation (3) Cancer rose with Moon and Jupiter in it (4) There were five planets in exaltation Strictly speaking, THAT IS ALL WE KNOW. Presumably somebody deduced the chart. Probably his/her thought process was as follows: (1) Because Moon is in Cancer, he is not exalted. (2) Out of Mercury and Venus, only one can be exalted. (3) So the five exalted planets must be Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, Sun and one out of Mercury and Venus. [Note: NOT a perfect deduction. What about nodes? Aren't they planets?] (4) Because Sun and Mercury cannot be exalted together (the longitude difference between them cannot be 150 deg, which is the minimum required for them to be exalted together). (5) So the five exalted planets must be: Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, Venus and Sun. (6) Then, based on the characteristics and guesses, Mercury and nodes must've been fixed. As noted earlier, this chart has a problem because Moon cannot be in Punarvasu and Sun in Aries on Sukla Navami (do math). One has to either suggest that Moon is not in Punarvasu as Valmiki wrote (Pt Sanajay Rath suggests that Valmiki meant lagna nakshatra and not Chandra nakshatra) or that Punarvasu nakshatra moved (in the sidereal zodiac!) in time. Neither suggestion is really acceptable. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2003 Report Share Posted July 26, 2003 Respected Narasimhaji With your permissions... The copy of Ramayana(Valmiki) that I have mentions 2 shlokas(8th and 9th) in the 18th sarga of BAlaKanda about birth of Ram. In fact these are the only two shlokas about birth of Ram in the Balakanda. The first shloka is interesting as it says that it was in the 12th month chaitra navami tithi. Now why this Chaitra NAvami in the 12th month? In the present time Hindu calender starts with Chaitra and ends with Phalgun. So Chaitra is 1st month. Does that mean at that time it was different? tato yaj~ne samaaapte tu R^ituunaamaM shhaT samatyayuH| tatashca dwaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau ||8|| Please forgive if you find my query very rudimentary and irrelevant to the present thread. Thanks a lot for your Time and Space. AmolMAndar vedic astrology, "pvr108" <pvr@c...> wrote: > Dear Gili, > > > Dear All, > > Sorry if this is a naive question, but how do we know Lord Rama's > chart. Is > > there some reference to it in the literature or has it been > deduced based on > > the narrative, HIs actions and personality etc. ? > > Love, Gili > > The chart is not given in any literature. However, Sage Valmiki, > author of Ramayana, mentioned the following: > > (1) Rama was born on Chaitra Sukla Navami tithi > (2) Rama was born in Punarvasu constellation > (3) Cancer rose with Moon and Jupiter in it > (4) There were five planets in exaltation > > Strictly speaking, THAT IS ALL WE KNOW. Presumably somebody deduced > the chart. Probably his/her thought process was as follows: > > (1) Because Moon is in Cancer, he is not exalted. > (2) Out of Mercury and Venus, only one can be exalted. > (3) So the five exalted planets must be Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, Sun > and one out of Mercury and Venus. [Note: NOT a perfect deduction. > What about nodes? Aren't they planets?] > (4) Because Sun and Mercury cannot be exalted together (the > longitude difference between them cannot be 150 deg, which is the > minimum required for them to be exalted together). > (5) So the five exalted planets must be: Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, > Venus and Sun. > (6) Then, based on the characteristics and guesses, Mercury and > nodes must've been fixed. > > As noted earlier, this chart has a problem because Moon cannot be in > Punarvasu and Sun in Aries on Sukla Navami (do math). One has to > either suggest that Moon is not in Punarvasu as Valmiki wrote (Pt > Sanajay Rath suggests that Valmiki meant lagna nakshatra and not > Chandra nakshatra) or that Punarvasu nakshatra moved (in the > sidereal zodiac!) in time. Neither suggestion is really acceptable. > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2003 Report Share Posted July 26, 2003 Namaste Amol ji, The verse says that six ritus passed after the yajna and Rama was born on Chaitra Sukla Navami tithi, in the 12th month since the end of the yajna they performed. You can only conclude that the yajna was done in the previous Vaisakha month. Whether Chaitra month is the first or the last in the Calendar followed at that time is not clear from the verse. May Jupiter's light shine on us, Narasimha > Respected Narasimhaji > > With your permissions... > > The copy of Ramayana(Valmiki) that I have mentions 2 shlokas(8th and > 9th) in the 18th sarga of BAlaKanda about birth of Ram. In fact these > are the only two shlokas about birth of Ram in the Balakanda. The > first shloka is interesting as it says that it was in the 12th month > chaitra navami tithi. Now why this Chaitra NAvami in the 12th month? > In the present time Hindu calender starts with Chaitra and ends with > Phalgun. So Chaitra is 1st month. Does that mean at that time it was > different? > > tato yaj~ne samaaapte tu R^ituunaamaM shhaT samatyayuH| > tatashca dwaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau ||8|| > > > Please forgive if you find my query very rudimentary and irrelevant > to the present thread. > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space. > > AmolMAndar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2003 Report Share Posted July 26, 2003 vedic astrology, "amolmandar" <amolmandar> wrote: > Now why this Chaitra NAvami in the 12th month? > In the present time Hindu calender starts with Chaitra and ends > with Phalgun. So Chaitra is 1st month. Does that mean at that time > it was different? unwanted intrusion. There is no axiom as such chaitra-as-first-maasa. The marking of yugaadi depends on whatever reference star. Nowadays, it is Ashwini (thats why we got chaitraadi maasa-s.) Each this yugaadi leads to two events viz Chaandra yugaadi and Saura yugaadi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2003 Report Share Posted July 27, 2003 Hare Rama Krishna Dear Sanjay Prabhakaran, Many thanks for your reply and clarification on computation of Vimshottari dasa periods. Can i take from your mail that the first 120 years remained unchanged, even when people live for longer than this (say for 250 years or 500 years or 1000 years). If that is so, while computing Moola dasa of say Saturn, do we still take the Das period as 19 years (or the multiples of it)? Can you please comment on this. Also, when we take from 1 gandanta to another as the maximum longevity in Kali yuga, does it mean we can not traverse the Gandanta in Kaliyuga? Your reply would be much appreciated. Thanks & regards viswanadham vedic astrology, "Sanjay Prabhakaran" <sprabhakaran@s...> wrote: > || Om Gurave Namah || > Dear Viswanadham, > The Vimshottari Dasa needs to just repeat the cycle based on the Yuga. The period of 120 Years derived for Vimshottari is based on 120 degrees present between one Gandanta (say for e.g.. Aries to Leo junction) to another and the fact that One Year of Humans equals 1 day of Devas. This equation between One day of Devas to One Year of Humans does not change with yuga. > Warm Regards, > S. Prabhakaran > > - > vishwanatham > vedic astrology > Wednesday, July 23, 2003 11:19 AM > [vedic astrology] EVENT DETAILS OF SHREE RAM > > > Hare Rama Krishna > > Pranam Sanjayji, > > If the poorna Ayush is 4 times (500 years) in Dwapara yuga (this is > also mentioned in Prasna Marga), how do we calculate Moola Dasa > periods for Bhagawan Sri Rama Chandra Moorty? In this case the > Vimshottari Dasa periods should add up to 500 years or is there any > other way to do it? > > Please clarify. > > Thanks & regards > viswanadham > > > > vedic astrology, "Sanjay Rath" > <daivagyna@s...> wrote: > > > > > > aia gurursarasvatyai svaha > > Dear Dhira Krsna > > If the periods of the Yugas are increased by steps, then why > sould longevity not be doubled? > > Satya = 4 > > Treta = 3 > > Dvapara = 2 > > Kali = 1 > > Longevity > > Dvapara = 2 X Kali = 125 X 2 = 250 > > Treta = 2 x Dvapara = 250 X 2 = 500 > > Satya = 2 X Treta = 500 X 2 = 1000 years > > Does this not sound more logical? Only thing required is a > reference from the Purana...maybe it is there. > > Perhaps this is applicable only for manushya Jataka and not > Dhruva maharaj or Sri Prahalada or such souls which by themselves are > spiritually so evolved to qualify for "Amitayus Jataka"...maybe. > > You think ADAM can mean Adi-Manu? > > The only way to work on the chart of Sri Krishna is to try to fix > the end of Kali yuga. I have attached three charts. If others have > more, please attach them. > > ~ om tat sat ~ > > Yours truly, > > Sanjay Rath > > P.S. Narasimha I am too tied down with the writeups for the > conferences. We will continue this in the US. Please keep Jataka > Parijatha, Bhavishya Purana and Vishnu Purana handy. > > --------------------------- > > H-5, B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India, +91-674-2436871 > http://srath.com > > --------------------------- > > > > > > Dhira Krsna BCS [Dhira.Krsna.BCS@p...] > > Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:28 AM > > vedic astrology > > [vedic astrology] Re: EVENT DETAILS OF SHREE RAM > > > > > > Dear Sanjay and Narasimha, > > > > Hare Rama Krsna! > > > > > I am hopeful that I will see an accurate chart of Krishna in this > > >lifetime. I don't have the same hope regarding Rama's chart. > > > > Some additional info that might help in finding Krsna's chart I > took from > > the Bible. In the chronology described in my school-Bible, it gives > dates > > of the deluge, which happened roundabout 2200 BC, and it describes > the > > arrival of Abraham, one of the descendants of Noach, who alone > survived > > the great deluge. The Bible describes the longevity of Noach as 950 > years, > > and he lived for 350 years after the great deluge. His sons also > became > > about 800-900 years, then gradually and very quickly the descendants > > became more or less 700, 600, 400, 200, and lastly Abraham still > became > > about 200 years, but others of his sons reached only to about 120- > 150 > > years. It is clear that the sandhya between dwapara and kali- yuga > took > > place here around this timing in history, and that longevity in > dwapara > > yuga was 1000 years. > > > > I don't see any reason why this part of Bible would be corrupted, > since it > > is part of old Testament, and part of Jewish tradition, having > little to > > do with modern Christian Church, who merely changed things in New > > Testament, describing the life of Jesus. So I believe that we have > to look > > around this time of about 1900-1800 BC to find Lord Krishna's > chart, since > > He lived a life of 125 years and is said to have appeared at the > sandhya > > between Dwapara and Kali-yuga. > > > > Yours, > > Dhira Krsna dasa, > > Jyotisha > > http://www.radhadesh.com > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Group info: vedic- astrology/info.html > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > > > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology- > > ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > > > > Terms of Service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Respected Narasimhaji You are right. But in the 12th sarga it says that raja Dasharath thought of performing the yajna in the Vasant ritu. tataH kale bahuthithe kismichit sumanohare| vasante samanuprapte ranno yashtum manobhavat||12.1|| Even in the 13th sarga it says that after one year when again Vasant ritu came at that time raja Dasharath consulted Vassishta for performing yajna. punaH prapte vasante tu purnaH samvatsarobhavat| Prasavatharta gato yashtum hayamedhena viryavan||13.1|| After that Vasihta rishi performed the yajna with the help of rishysshrunga rishi. So it seems that yajna started some where in the vasant ritu. According to todays calender Vasant ritu is in pausha or magha just few months before chaitra. Moreover, Six month after vasant ritu should be Varsha ritu and varsha ritu should have month Aashada or Sharvana. It means that even if we take 12 months from the Yajna starting still we do not get Chaitra according to todays calender and if we take into consideration 6 ritus after yajna we end up in Varsha ritu and again it is not in Chaitra according to todays calender. So can we deduce that it is very difficult to understand time,month and year according to todays calender. Thanks a lot for your Time and Space. AmolMAndar vedic astrology, "pvr108" <pvr@c...> wrote: > Namaste Amol ji, > > The verse says that six ritus passed after the yajna and Rama was > born on Chaitra Sukla Navami tithi, in the 12th month since the end > of the yajna they performed. You can only conclude that the yajna > was done in the previous Vaisakha month. Whether Chaitra month is > the first or the last in the Calendar followed at that time is not > clear from the verse. > > May Jupiter's light shine on us, > Narasimha > > > Respected Narasimhaji > > > > With your permissions... > > > > The copy of Ramayana(Valmiki) that I have mentions 2 shlokas(8th > and > > 9th) in the 18th sarga of BAlaKanda about birth of Ram. In fact > these > > are the only two shlokas about birth of Ram in the Balakanda. The > > first shloka is interesting as it says that it was in the 12th > month > > chaitra navami tithi. Now why this Chaitra NAvami in the 12th > month? > > In the present time Hindu calender starts with Chaitra and ends > with > > Phalgun. So Chaitra is 1st month. Does that mean at that time it > was > > different? > > > > tato yaj~ne samaaapte tu R^ituunaamaM shhaT samatyayuH| > > tatashca dwaadashe maase chaitre naavamike tithau ||8|| > > > > > > Please forgive if you find my query very rudimentary and > irrelevant > > to the present thread. > > > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space. > > > > AmolMAndar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 Dear Vishwanatham et al, Hare Rama Krsna! >Can i take from your mail that the first 120 years remained >unchanged, even when people live for longer than this (say for 250 >years or 500 years or 1000 years). Yes, from the stories in Bible we see the people with such long lives were already married and begetting children at the age of 20-30, so dasha periods should definitely not be multiplied. There will rather be multiples of cycles repeating themselves umpteen times till the end of life. To accept that their dasha periods were longer is not correct. Even in the life of Sri Rama we see He was already being married at the age of 15-16. As for Gandanta crossing, I believe one has to be an elevated soul to be able to do so. Yours, Dhira Krsna dasa, Jyotisha http://www.radhadesh.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Dear S. Rath RAM KRISHN HARE You have considered exaltation of mangal and shani while guru and ravi are forgotten.If you consider their exaltation,2 years will be deducted and shani dasha will start from 25th year.If you will exclude exaltation, then shani dasha will start from 28th year for 15 years.In any case,you can not justify mool dasha. I looked at saravali to get some insight.I am sorry to say that Mool dasha in its present form is not intented by Kalyan Varma. He is using lagna-dasha in place of rahu and ketu.This means that it is definately different from vinshottary years.Antar-dasha calculation is also different and one of the two methods(also recommended by him) is also given by Varahmihir.I feel that calculation procedure is given in brihat-jatak so it was not repeated by Kalyan Varma.Most things match if it is taken as mool dasha.Varahmihir has given dasha-bhukti calculations and its results but missed the name of dasha. I also notice that Shree Ram's chart used by you is not same as used in Maharashtr.The only variation is placement of Rahu/ketu in kanya/meen respectively.While this is not going to make any differece,I think it explains things in a better way(at least from vinshottary dasha). Here,it is belived that jyotish learning starts from Shree Ram's chart. I was really shocked to see His chart at no. 2 in COVA. I think you will correct it in next edition. Also a good index at end is very much needed.This will make it a desk-book in place of shelf-book. THANKS Anilkumar OM TAT SAT *************** you wrote: Alternative-3 (matches Skanda Purana) Moon 10 years Jupiter 11 years ----------------------- 21 years Mars 3 --------------------------- 24 years Sun 2 ---------------------------- 26 years Saturn 14 years (Vanvas) - 40 years Venus 12 52 year ~ om tat sat ~ Yours truly, Sanjay Rath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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