How to predict Intelligence Quotient (IQ)

May 30, 2003

Dear K.Srinivasan

I think IQ is best translated in Sanskrit as Buddhi: so it must be

govern by Budha/Mercury.

Guru/Jupiter and panchamSthan should govern Gyan. I suppose there is

no good word for Gyan in English language;it is purely Sanskrit

concept. As far as Mathematical thinking, We must see the

Shani/Saturn that gives Abstract thinking. Ofcourse, this is my

abstraction,Gurus may add to it as well.

Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

AmolMandar

vedic astrology, "K.Srinivasan"

<ka_shrinivaasan> wrote:

> Dear All,

>

> Some people may not be very educated but they are blessed with good

> brain power. Some are educated but not brainy. (What I mean by brain

> power is for example their ability to solve puzzles, think

laterally,

> tackle complex mathematical problems effortlessly etc.,)

>

> How should we predict intelligence of a native?

>

> Is it from:

> 1) 5th house and its Lord?

> 2) Lagna and its Lord ?

> 3) any divisional charts dedicatedly used for analysing

intelligence?

> 4) Placement of Mercury/Jupiter?

> 5) 3rd house? Some texts say 3rd house also rules intellect(Sorry I

> forgot the name of the text).

>

> Please enlighten in this regard.

>

> thanks and regards,

> K.Srinivasan

May 31, 2003

om namah sivaaya

dear mr. amol,

in my opinion, gyan means knowledge. gurus can correct me.

t. v. rao

-

"amolmandar" <amolmandar

Friday, May 30, 2003 3:56 PM

[vedic astrology] Re: How to predict Intelligence Quotient (IQ)

> Dear K.Srinivasan

>

> I think IQ is best translated in Sanskrit as Buddhi: so it must be

> govern by Budha/Mercury.

> Guru/Jupiter and panchamSthan should govern Gyan. I suppose there is

> no good word for Gyan in English language;it is purely Sanskrit

> concept. As far as Mathematical thinking, We must see the

> Shani/Saturn that gives Abstract thinking. Ofcourse, this is my

> abstraction,Gurus may add to it as well.

>

> Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

>

> AmolMandar

>

> vedic astrology, "K.Srinivasan"

> <ka_shrinivaasan> wrote:

> > Dear All,

> >

> > Some people may not be very educated but they are blessed with good

> > brain power. Some are educated but not brainy. (What I mean by brain

> > power is for example their ability to solve puzzles, think

> laterally,

> > tackle complex mathematical problems effortlessly etc.,)

> >

> > How should we predict intelligence of a native?

> >

> > Is it from:

> > 1) 5th house and its Lord?

> > 2) Lagna and its Lord ?

> > 3) any divisional charts dedicatedly used for analysing

> intelligence?

> > 4) Placement of Mercury/Jupiter?

> > 5) 3rd house? Some texts say 3rd house also rules intellect(Sorry I

> > forgot the name of the text).

> >

> > Please enlighten in this regard.

> >

> > thanks and regards,

> > K.Srinivasan

>

> ....... May Jupiter's light shine on us .......

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

June 1, 2003

Dear Shri Rao

I agree that knowlwdge synonyms Gyan but in the

Sanskrit context Gyan may mean more than what we mean

by Knowledge in English sense. I suppose Knowledge

best synonyms with Vidya. We do Abhyasa of Vidya and

apply our buddhi to acquire more vidya. Vidya that

breaks the bondage of birth-rebirth is the AtmaGyan or

Gyan. Panchatantra says " Yasa Nasti Swayam Pranya

Shastra Tatsya karoti Kim" Now this Swayam Pranya is

something you get because of deeds in all past births.

Evolution on spiritual level is because of Gyan that

leads to Brahma and hence to Moksha(I think so). This

concept I suppose is difficult to express with the

help of 'Knowledge'. I may be wrong here because the

subject is too vast and I have too little brain!.

Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

AmolMandar

Plus - For a better Internet experience

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June 1, 2003

|Hare Rama Krishna|

Dear Amolmandar,

Gyan or 'Jnan' literally means knowledge or the ability to discriminate. Hence

the translation of Gyan as 'knowledge' is correct.

However when we talk of Vidya there are two types - Apara Vidya and Para Vidya.

'Vidya' literally means education and 'Para' means universal in the sense of

divinity. A-Para is then the opposite and is material in its concept.

So A-Para vidya is education which enables you to survive in this world, i.e.

the base knowledge to work, use the bathroom, eat, etc.

Para Vidya is however beyond that and is the spiritual education we get, which

can lead us to the Atma-Gyaan, however it can also lead us away depending on

the quality of the Para Vidya.

So there are two things to consider here - Knowledge and Education. Both are

different, their goal is the same.

The Apara Vidya is seen from the 4th house which is our initial education whilst

the Para Vidya is part of our own Gyaan, which are both seen in the 5th house.

If the Gyaan is strong then it will come to light in the higher education (9th

house) in the form of higher studies and knowledge. However; if we work hard

(6th house) in the Apara area - 4th house, then the Apara Vidya finds its place

in the higher studies.

The buddhi/intellect itself is the lagna, as the Lagna interacts with the

various other houses, and produces the various results.

Now the ability to remeber all this Gyana coming from the various types of Vidya

comes from Jupiter and hence Gyana Karaka and Dhi-Karaka is Jupiter showing the

level of knowledge and awareness the native has. Hence higher knowledge, higher

awareness.

Now the blessing of Jupiter is seen on various levels depending on the VARGA.

The Navamsa is seen to see which efforts from past birth represent themselves

in this life. I.e. what bhagya have you earned due to past merrits. If the

Navamsa does not show the knowledge then this knowledge is not coming due to

ones own abilities but may come elsewhere, and hence the question of the native

mastering a field of knowledge due to past merrits is discerned accordingly.

When we talk of trijanmagyan or knowledge of past 3 births, then this is another

area of knowledge, and we must look at Jupiter in the D-60 chart to see whether

the native can, or will remember the past birth.

Best wishesVisti---Sri Jagannath Center: http://.orgBhagavad Purana:

http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgiTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org

-

Amol Mandar

vedic astrology

Sunday, June 01, 2003 4:07 PM

[vedic astrology] Re: How to predict Intelligence Quotient (IQ)

Dear Shri RaoI agree that knowlwdge synonyms Gyan but in theSanskrit context

Gyan may mean more than what we meanby Knowledge in English sense. I suppose

Knowledgebest synonyms with Vidya. We do Abhyasa of Vidya andapply our buddhi

to acquire more vidya. Vidya thatbreaks the bondage of birth-rebirth is the

AtmaGyan orGyan. Panchatantra says " Yasa Nasti Swayam PranyaShastra Tatsya

karoti Kim" Now this Swayam Pranya issomething you get because of deeds in all

past births.Evolution on spiritual level is because of Gyan thatleads to Brahma

and hence to Moksha(I think so). Thisconcept I suppose is difficult to express

with thehelp of 'Knowledge'. I may be wrong here because thesubject is too vast

and I have too little brain!.Thanks a lot for your Time and

Space.AmolMandar Plus -

For a better Internet

experiencehttp://uk.promotions./yplus/yoffer.htmlArchives:

vedic astrologyGroup info:

vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-........ May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......

June 1, 2003

"How to predic bhraanti of Intellect" would be a wonderful task for

astrologers!

Sorry for intrusion.

June 2, 2003

Dear Visti Namaste

I am really thankful for your detailed and enlighting

mail. Yes I agree that Gyan means knowledge literally.

But sanskrit dictionary translates many words to

knowledge . Jna dhatu means 'To know', therefore we

translate Gyan,Vigyan to Knowledge literally. But I

was curious about the context in which we use Gyan in

Sanskrit. It is little bit different than the use of

Knowledge in English.

Although I am not very sure as I am novice in this

shastra but I feel that 2nd house as well indicates

vidya. The 4th house is a house of A-Para vidya we may

say 'written education' or 'Likhit Vidya'. The 2nd

house karak graha is Jupiter and ability to talk is

govern by Budha. So possibly 2nd house should indicate

intellect along with Budha.

That is why it is said

" Vagisha Budha Jeeveshu NirVidyo NashaGeshu ch |

Kendreshu Te Trikone Va Swakshare Va VidyanVita: ||".

This VidyaHinata shown by 2nd house is not of Apara

Vidya I suppose. Rather it should be ability to

remember, ability to apply SadsadVivekBuddhi i.e.

Intelligence,to understand and profit from experience,

this is all govern by Budha and 2nd house. We may say

that it is VyavaharGyan.

Moreover, reagrding Gyan from past birth, I was not

able to express it properly. I wanted to indicate that

spiritual evolution is important to have inherant

ability to understand and comprehend

things(i.e.Pragnya). In each birth, whether we

remember it in next or not, if we acquire correct

spiritual knowlwdge(AtmaGyan) then subsequently in one

of the birth we may attain Moksha. We have to bear

wrong deeds perform in the previous births in the

present birth. This is reflected in the Kundali by

verious Yogs/Doshas like SarpaYog,KalsarpaYog(?) and

which is manifested as sorrow and sufferings although

we do not remember them in the present birth.

Similary, good positive development in spiritual

direction done in the previous births must also be

reflected in the Kundali(I am not aware of) and is

manifested as Pragnya in the present birth.

The physical evolution started from single cell amoeba

to Human body whereas spiritual evolution is from

Jeevatma that was present in first ameba to jeevatma

of human being and from there it leads to moksha.

Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

AmolMandar

Plus - For a better Internet experience

http://uk.promotions./yplus/yoffer.html

June 2, 2003

|Hare Rama Krishna|

Dear Amolmandar,

The sloka you have given is linked to the Saraswati Yoga. I will explain later in this mail.

2nd house is vacha bhava, or house of speech. It does not have a direct link

with knowledge i.e. we cannot messure the natives intelligence from what they

talk about, otherwise what are we to say about those sages who kept mauna vrata

(vow of silence) for many many years.

But yes we can messure a natives intelligence by their ability to discuss. And

when you look at the 2nd house from the Vidya and Gyaan bhavas (4th and 5th),

you will find that the 11th from 4th house is the 2nd house, so the gains in

education comes from your ability to discuss.. i.e. are you asking the right

questions. However when we reckon this from the Gyana bhava, then this becomes

more clear: The 2nd house is the 10th - Swarga or heaven, from the 5th house,

hence it shows SARASWATI who is listening to the discussions of the Gyani's, or

intellectuals.

Hence when Mercury and Venus are in Kendra, Trikona OR the 2nd house, whilst

Jupiter is strong or well placed - Saraswati Yoga results.

This Yoga has nothing todo with Atmagyaan, instead it can make one a very

learned person in shastras, and such.

I have also added some comments below.

Best wishesVisti---Sri Jagannath Center: http://.orgBhagavad Purana:

http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgiTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org

-

Amol Mandar

vedic astrology

Monday, June 02, 2003 12:27 PM

[vedic astrology] Re: How to predict Intelligence Quotient (IQ)

Dear Visti NamasteI am really thankful for your detailed and enlighting mail.

Yes I agree that Gyan means knowledge literally.But sanskrit dictionary

translates many words toknowledge . Jna dhatu means 'To know', therefore

wetranslate Gyan,Vigyan to Knowledge literally. But Iwas curious about the

context in which we use Gyan inSanskrit. It is little bit different than the

use ofKnowledge in English.Although I am not very sure as I am novice in

thisshastra but I feel that 2nd house as well indicatesvidya. The 4th house is

a house of A-Para vidya we maysay 'written education' or 'Likhit Vidya'. The

2ndhouse karak graha is Jupiter and ability to talk isgovern by Budha. So

possibly 2nd house should indicateintellect along with Budha.

Visti: See this i have talked about above. Question is what you mean by

intellect? The ability to discriminate in knowledge is seen through Mercury,

i.e. the buddhi which can easily access various types of knowledge in the

memory. Then when we talk about ability to store all the experiences we've had

in this world, we are trying to understand the Akasha Tattwa, which binds

together all the events of life. Jupiter rules the Akasha Tattwa and hence

rules our memory.

That is why it is said " Vagisha Budha Jeeveshu NirVidyo NashaGeshu ch |

Kendreshu Te Trikone Va Swakshare Va VidyanVita: ||". This VidyaHinata shown by

2nd house is not of AparaVidya I suppose. Rather it should be ability

toremember, ability to apply SadsadVivekBuddhi i.e.Intelligence,to understand

and profit from experience,this is all govern by Budha and 2nd house. We may

saythat it is VyavaharGyan.Visti: See this is related to Maya, i.e. we get

knowledge and we use it for our well being. Hence this is not gyaan in its

purest sense, as not all gyaan is used for expanding our wealth or eloquence.

Moreover, reagrding Gyan from past birth, I was notable to express it properly.

I wanted to indicate thatspiritual evolution is important to have

inherantability to understand and comprehendthings(i.e.Pragnya). In each birth,

whether weremember it in next or not, if we acquire correctspiritual

knowlwdge(AtmaGyan) then subsequently in oneof the birth we may attain Moksha.

We have to bearwrong deeds perform in the previous births in thepresent birth.

This is reflected in the Kundali byverious Yogs/Doshas like

SarpaYog,KalsarpaYog(?) andwhich is manifested as sorrow and sufferings

althoughwe do not remember them in the present birth. Similary, good positive

development in spiritualdirection done in the previous births must also

bereflected in the Kundali(I am not aware of) and ismanifested as Pragnya in

the present birth.

The physical evolution started from single cell amoebato Human body whereas

spiritual evolution is from Jeevatma that was present in first ameba to

jeevatmaof human being and from there it leads to moksha.

Visti: I disagree that we can say that it started from the Jeevatma, possibly

Paramatma, basically Jeevatma is the first experience of duality from the

supersoul, and hence the first experience of Ahamkara. Later we get a mind and

then a body to fulfill our karma.

Thanks a lot for your Time and

Space.AmolMandar Plus -

For a better Internet

experiencehttp://uk.promotions./yplus/yoffer.htmlArchives:

vedic astrologyGroup info:

vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-........ May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......

June 2, 2003

Dear Visti Namaste

There seems to be some confusion. The earlier shloka that I had given

may mean Saraswati yoga but literally(according to my little

knowledge of Sanskrit) it means that vagish i.e. Dwitiyesh,Budha and

Jeeva(Jupiter) if are in 8th house(NashaGeshu) indicate VidyaHinata

(NirVidyo) this is what first line means and in the second it gives

the exception to this rule as if separated in Kendra or Trikona or

in Swarashi makes the person intelligent. Now I suppose here there is

no Saraswati Yoga as explained by you. I wanted to indicate that 2nd

house is considred for general intelligence of a native. This general

intelligence is not the education.

Moreover

"Vittam Netram Mukham Vidya VakKutumbaShanani Ch |

DwitiyaSthanaJannyani KramjJyotirVido Vidu: ||

This sloka clearly indicates that 2nd house indicates Vidya as well.

I understand that 2nd house should indicate Vidya otherwise also. The

karak of 2nd is Jupiter and Budha contols speech. In the ancient

times learning and teaching was all verbal. Verbal recitation was key

for education.

All great epics were preserved by ability to memorize and reproduce

in verbal fashion. So 2nd house,Jupiter , and Budha must be

considered for good intelligence. I dont understand how can we mesure

intelligence of a person by his ability to discuss. We can atmost

measure his power of expression. Good power of expression requires

vagish well placed along with Budha. Ability to express effectivly

makes person good at Vyavahara. This Yoga may not have anything todo

with Atmagyaan, but it can make one a very learned person in

shastras, and Subsequently a step towards being AtmaGyani!.

I have a doubt regarding Jupiter and Memory. You have mentioned

that "The ability to discriminate in knowledge is seen through

Mercury, i.e. the buddhi which can easily access various types of

knowledge in the memory." This is the key. Budha as well governs

ability to remember. What experiences should be stored and which one

to forget is done by Budha. This is general intelligence. Jupiter

should not have any role in this. Jupiter will decide what

experiences one should get(or should not get) as far as Satvik nature

is consider. The Adhyatma(faculty of ultimate 'knowledge') and Dharma

experiences might be under the control of Jupiter and not mudane

daily experiences.

As far as Maya is concerned, according to YogVashistha the universe

is Maya.

Yes, I agree that first we have Ahamkara as Jeevatma and then mind

and then Body. But question arises if body has evolved from first

single ameba cell to multicell human body and mind as well has

evolved from first single ameba cell mind to multicell human mind

(Human mind many times shows the signs of other Animal mind!) then

this rule should as well be applied to Jeevatma. This spiritual

evolution is real Pragyan. This you acquire because of good and

spiritual deeds in the all previous births.

Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

AmolMandar

vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...>

wrote:

> |Hare Rama Krishna|

> Dear Amolmandar,

> The sloka you have given is linked to the Saraswati Yoga. I will

explain later in this mail.

>

> 2nd house is vacha bhava, or house of speech. It does not have a

direct link with knowledge i.e. we cannot messure the natives

intelligence from what they talk about, otherwise what are we to say

about those sages who kept mauna vrata (vow of silence) for many many

years.

>

> But yes we can messure a natives intelligence by their ability to

discuss. And when you look at the 2nd house from the Vidya and Gyaan

bhavas (4th and 5th), you will find that the 11th from 4th house is

the 2nd house, so the gains in education comes from your ability to

discuss.. i.e. are you asking the right questions. However when we

reckon this from the Gyana bhava, then this becomes more clear: The

2nd house is the 10th - Swarga or heaven, from the 5th house, hence

it shows SARASWATI who is listening to the discussions of the

Gyani's, or intellectuals.

>

> Hence when Mercury and Venus are in Kendra, Trikona OR the 2nd

house, whilst Jupiter is strong or well placed - Saraswati Yoga

results.

>

> This Yoga has nothing todo with Atmagyaan, instead it can make one

a very learned person in shastras, and such.

>

> I have also added some comments below.

> Best wishes

> Visti

> ---

> Sri Jagannath Center: http://.org

> Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org

> iTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org

> -

> Amol Mandar

> vedic astrology

> Monday, June 02, 2003 12:27 PM

> [vedic astrology] Re: How to predict Intelligence

Quotient (IQ)

>

> Dear Visti Namaste

>

> I am really thankful for your detailed and enlighting

> mail. Yes I agree that Gyan means knowledge literally.

> But sanskrit dictionary translates many words to

> knowledge . Jna dhatu means 'To know', therefore we

> translate Gyan,Vigyan to Knowledge literally. But I

> was curious about the context in which we use Gyan in

> Sanskrit. It is little bit different than the use of

> Knowledge in English.

>

> Although I am not very sure as I am novice in this

> shastra but I feel that 2nd house as well indicates

> vidya. The 4th house is a house of A-Para vidya we may

> say 'written education' or 'Likhit Vidya'. The 2nd

> house karak graha is Jupiter and ability to talk is

> govern by Budha. So possibly 2nd house should indicate

> intellect along with Budha.

>

> Visti: See this i have talked about above. Question is what

you mean by intellect? The ability to discriminate in knowledge is

seen through Mercury, i.e. the buddhi which can easily access various

types of knowledge in the memory. Then when we talk about ability to

store all the experiences we've had in this world, we are trying to

understand the Akasha Tattwa, which binds together all the events of

life. Jupiter rules the Akasha Tattwa and hence rules our memory.

>

> That is why it is said

> " Vagisha Budha Jeeveshu NirVidyo NashaGeshu ch |

> Kendreshu Te Trikone Va Swakshare Va VidyanVita: ||".

>

> This VidyaHinata shown by 2nd house is not of Apara

> Vidya I suppose. Rather it should be ability to

> remember, ability to apply SadsadVivekBuddhi i.e.

> Intelligence,to understand and profit from experience,

> this is all govern by Budha and 2nd house. We may say

> that it is VyavaharGyan.

>

> Visti: See this is related to Maya, i.e. we get knowledge and

we use it for our well being. Hence this is not gyaan in its purest

sense, as not all gyaan is used for expanding our wealth or eloquence.

>

> Moreover, reagrding Gyan from past birth, I was not

> able to express it properly. I wanted to indicate that

> spiritual evolution is important to have inherant

> ability to understand and comprehend

> things(i.e.Pragnya). In each birth, whether we

> remember it in next or not, if we acquire correct

> spiritual knowlwdge(AtmaGyan) then subsequently in one

> of the birth we may attain Moksha. We have to bear

> wrong deeds perform in the previous births in the

> present birth. This is reflected in the Kundali by

> verious Yogs/Doshas like SarpaYog,KalsarpaYog(?) and

> which is manifested as sorrow and sufferings although

> we do not remember them in the present birth.

>

> Similary, good positive development in spiritual

> direction done in the previous births must also be

> reflected in the Kundali(I am not aware of) and is

> manifested as Pragnya in the present birth.

>

> The physical evolution started from single cell amoeba

> to Human body whereas spiritual evolution is from

> Jeevatma that was present in first ameba to jeevatma

> of human being and from there it leads to moksha.

>

> Visti: I disagree that we can say that it started from the

Jeevatma, possibly Paramatma, basically Jeevatma is the first

experience of duality from the supersoul, and hence the first

experience of Ahamkara. Later we get a mind and then a body to

fulfill our karma.

>

> Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

>

> AmolMandar

>

> Plus - For a better Internet experience

> http://uk.promotions./yplus/yoffer.html

>

> Sponsor

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

>

> Terms of

Service.

June 2, 2003

|Namah Shiväya|

Dear Amolmandar,

Comments below.

Best wishesVisti---Sri Jagannath Center: http://.orgBhagavad Purana:

http://www.srimadbhagavatam.orgiTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org

-

amolmandar

vedic astrology

Monday, June 02, 2003 6:18 PM

[vedic astrology] Re: How to predict Intelligence Quotient (IQ)

Dear Visti NamasteThere seems to be some confusion. The earlier shloka that I

had given may mean Saraswati yoga but literally(according to my little

knowledge of Sanskrit) it means that vagish i.e. Dwitiyesh,Budha and

Jeeva(Jupiter) if are in 8th house(NashaGeshu) indicate VidyaHinata(NirVidyo)

this is what first line means and in the second it gives the exception to this

rule as if separated in Kendra or Trikona or in Swarashi makes the person

intelligent. Now I suppose here there is no Saraswati Yoga as explained by you.

I wanted to indicate that 2nd house is considred for general intelligence of a

native. This general intelligence is not the education.

Visti: I was referring to the 'link' between the 2nd house and Saraswati in

this context.

Moreover"Vittam Netram Mukham Vidya VakKutumbaShanani Ch |DwitiyaSthanaJannyani

KramjJyotirVido Vidu: ||This sloka clearly indicates that 2nd house indicates

Vidya as well. I understand that 2nd house should indicate Vidya otherwise

also. The karak of 2nd is Jupiter and Budha contols speech. In the ancient

times learning and teaching was all verbal. Verbal recitation was key for

education.

Visti: Keep in mind that there are many karakas for a house. Guru is

Dhana-Karaka - i.e. wealth karaka and hence is karaka for the 2nd house. Buddha

is Vacha-karaka for the 2nd house. Moon is kula-karaka for the 2nd house, and in

this way we can go on and on. But the PRIMARY karaka for the 2nd house is

Jupiter.

You are perfectly right regarding 2nd house and Vidya, as i stressed before its

also relevant in todays context for knowledge.

The real work/karma of the 2nd house is seen from the 10th from the 2nd - 11th.

The 11th house shows listening and one understanding, and if the 2nd house is

not strong then instead of listening to the words of the teacher, you blabber

endlessly all the time. Hence its still very important in todays context to see

whether a person controls their desire to talk, and listens to the guru.

All great epics were preserved by ability to memorize and reproduce in verbal

fashion. So 2nd house,Jupiter , and Budha must be considered for good

intelligence. I dont understand how can we mesure intelligence of a person by

his ability to discuss. We can atmost measure his power of expression. Good

power of expression requires vagish well placed along with Budha. Ability to

express effectivly makes person good at Vyavahara. This Yoga may not have

anything todo with Atmagyaan, but it can make one a very learned person in

shastras, and Subsequently a step towards being AtmaGyani!.

Visti: This type of messurement is used in the exams in european countries,

where the student is required to give presentations of their studies. The exams

are done in discussion, hence the messurement factor.

I have a doubt regarding Jupiter and Memory. You have mentioned that "The

ability to discriminate in knowledge is seen through Mercury, i.e. the buddhi

which can easily access various types of knowledge in the memory." This is the

key. Budha as well governs ability to remember. What experiences should be

stored and which one to forget is done by Budha. This is general intelligence.

Jupiter should not have any role in this. Jupiter will decide what experiences

one should get(or should not get) as far as Satvik nature is consider.

Visti: What makes you think Jupiter decides this? Why don't all planets

decide this? Even mercury will.. The discussion on the planets giving us

results, is out of context to this discussion.

All knowledge comes from the Sun, and Jupiter being the biggest planet in the

solar system is the largest to reflect these rays of the Sun so the native can

recieve the knowledge. Hence this ray of light coming from the sun is sent to

the native dhi, or awareness/intellect, represented by the lagna, and depending

on the natives thought faculty and ahamkara, the knowledge 'penetrates' our

thick skull. To make this easier we bend our index finger - called tarjani -

forming gyana mudra, so that the knowledge comes. Now the lagna represents this

skull which the light has to penetrate before we become 'enlightened', and the

receptive faculty is the Dhi-shakti. This Dhi-shakti is ruled by Jupiter. When

this knowledge has crossed the wall of the ahamkara, it becomes stored as gyaan

in the 5th house, as this shows the future of the lagna.. i.e. the ray of light

goes from Guru (9th) to the native (1st) and then to the 5th house as Gyaan or

knowledge. The Karaka here is still Jupiter.

The Adhyatma(faculty of ultimate 'knowledge') and Dharma experiences might be

under the control of Jupiter and not mudane daily experiences.

Visti: All knowledge is in the domain of Jupiter. Every person acceses this

domain for different reasons, i.e. the native wanting to build a house acceses

it, and a gyani wanting to write a book acceses it.. theres no descrimination

in the abode of knowledge, only the person who wants to acces it. This buddhi

who works with the ahamkaraka (hence discriminate in nature) to acces this

gyaan, is mercury. Mercury stores no knowledge it only tries to access just as

a student tries to get knowledge from their teacher.

As far as Maya is concerned, according to YogVashistha the universe is Maya.

Yes, I agree that first we have Ahamkara as Jeevatma and then mind and then

Body. But question arises if body has evolved from first single ameba cell to

multicell human body and mind as well has evolved from first single ameba cell

mind to multicell human mind(Human mind many times shows the signs of other

Animal mind!) then this rule should as well be applied to Jeevatma. This

spiritual evolution is real Pragyan. This you acquire because of good and

spiritual deeds in the all previous births.

Visti: We are taught that the mind of the native does not enter the body

until the 6th/7th month of pregnancy, hence the mind does not evolve from/with

the body, it only resides in it.

Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.AmolMandar--- In

vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...> wrote:> |Hare

Rama Krishna|> Dear Amolmandar,> The sloka you have given is linked to the

Saraswati Yoga. I will explain later in this mail.> > 2nd house is vacha bhava,

or house of speech. It does not have a direct link with knowledge i.e. we cannot

messure the natives intelligence from what they talk about, otherwise what are

we to say about those sages who kept mauna vrata (vow of silence) for many many

years.> > But yes we can messure a natives intelligence by their ability to

discuss. And when you look at the 2nd house from the Vidya and Gyaan bhavas

(4th and 5th), you will find that the 11th from 4th house is the 2nd house, so

the gains in education comes from your ability to discuss.. i.e. are you asking

the right questions. However when we reckon this from the Gyana bhava, then this

becomes more clear: The 2nd house is the 10th - Swarga or heaven, from the 5th

house, hence it shows SARASWATI who is listening to the discussions of the

Gyani's, or intellectuals.> > Hence when Mercury and Venus are in Kendra,

Trikona OR the 2nd house, whilst Jupiter is strong or well placed - Saraswati

Yoga results.> > This Yoga has nothing todo with Atmagyaan, instead it can make

one a very learned person in shastras, and such.> > I have also added some

comments below.> Best wishes> Visti> ---> Sri Jagannath Center:

http://.org> Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org>

iTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org> ----- Original Message

----- > Amol Mandar > vedic astrology > Sent:

Monday, June 02, 2003 12:27 PM> [vedic astrology] Re: How to predict

Intelligence Quotient (IQ)> > > Dear Visti Namaste> > I am really thankful

for your detailed and enlighting > mail. Yes I agree that Gyan means

knowledge literally.> But sanskrit dictionary translates many words to>

knowledge . Jna dhatu means 'To know', therefore we> translate Gyan,Vigyan to

Knowledge literally. But I> was curious about the context in which we use Gyan

in> Sanskrit. It is little bit different than the use of> Knowledge in

English.> > Although I am not very sure as I am novice in this> shastra but

I feel that 2nd house as well indicates> vidya. The 4th house is a house of

A-Para vidya we may> say 'written education' or 'Likhit Vidya'. The 2nd>

house karak graha is Jupiter and ability to talk is> govern by Budha. So

possibly 2nd house should indicate> intellect along with Budha.> > Visti:

See this i have talked about above. Question is what you mean by intellect? The

ability to discriminate in knowledge is seen through Mercury, i.e. the buddhi

which can easily access various types of knowledge in the memory. Then when we

talk about ability to store all the experiences we've had in this world, we are

trying to understand the Akasha Tattwa, which binds together all the events of

life. Jupiter rules the Akasha Tattwa and hence rules our memory.> > That is

why it is said > " Vagisha Budha Jeeveshu NirVidyo NashaGeshu ch | >

Kendreshu Te Trikone Va Swakshare Va VidyanVita: ||". > > > This VidyaHinata

shown by 2nd house is not of Apara> Vidya I suppose. Rather it should be

ability to> remember, ability to apply SadsadVivekBuddhi i.e.>

Intelligence,to understand and profit from experience,> this is all govern by

Budha and 2nd house. We may say> that it is VyavaharGyan.> > Visti: See

this is related to Maya, i.e. we get knowledge and we use it for our well

being. Hence this is not gyaan in its purest sense, as not all gyaan is used

for expanding our wealth or eloquence.> > Moreover, reagrding Gyan from past

birth, I was not> able to express it properly. I wanted to indicate that>

spiritual evolution is important to have inherant> ability to understand and

comprehend> things(i.e.Pragnya). In each birth, whether we> remember it in

next or not, if we acquire correct> spiritual knowlwdge(AtmaGyan) then

subsequently in one> of the birth we may attain Moksha. We have to bear>

wrong deeds perform in the previous births in the> present birth. This is

reflected in the Kundali by> verious Yogs/Doshas like SarpaYog,KalsarpaYog(?)

and> which is manifested as sorrow and sufferings although> we do not

remember them in the present birth. > > Similary, good positive development

in spiritual> direction done in the previous births must also be> reflected

in the Kundali(I am not aware of) and is> manifested as Pragnya in the present

birth.> > The physical evolution started from single cell amoeba> to Human

body whereas spiritual evolution is from > Jeevatma that was present in first

ameba to jeevatma> of human being and from there it leads to moksha. > >

Visti: I disagree that we can say that it started from the Jeevatma,

possibly Paramatma, basically Jeevatma is the first experience of duality from

the supersoul, and hence the first experience of Ahamkara. Later we get a mind

and then a body to fulfill our karma.> > Thanks a lot for your Time and

Space.> > AmolMandar> > >

Plus - For a better Internet experience>

http://uk.promotions./yplus/yoffer.html> > >

Sponsor > > > > > >

Archives: vedic astrology> > Group info:

vedic astrology/info.html> > To UNSUBSCRIBE:

Blank mail to vedic astrology-> > ........ May

Jupiter's light shine on us .......> > || Om Tat Sat || Sarvam Sri

Krishnaarpanamastu || > > Your use of is subject to the

Archives:

vedic astrologyGroup info:

vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank

mail to vedic astrology-........ May Jupiter's light

shine on us .......

June 2, 2003

Dear Visti Namaste

You may be right.

Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

AmolMandar

vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...>

wrote:

> |Namah Shiväya|

> Dear Amolmandar,

> Comments below.

> Best wishes

> Visti

> ---

> Sri Jagannath Center: http://.org

> Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org

> iTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org

> -

> amolmandar

> vedic astrology

> Monday, June 02, 2003 6:18 PM

> [vedic astrology] Re: How to predict Intelligence

Quotient (IQ)

>

> Dear Visti Namaste

>

> There seems to be some confusion. The earlier shloka that I had

given

> may mean Saraswati yoga but literally(according to my little

> knowledge of Sanskrit) it means that vagish i.e. Dwitiyesh,Budha

and

> Jeeva(Jupiter) if are in 8th house(NashaGeshu) indicate

VidyaHinata

> (NirVidyo) this is what first line means and in the second it

gives

> the exception to this rule as if separated in Kendra or Trikona

or

> in Swarashi makes the person intelligent. Now I suppose here

there is

> no Saraswati Yoga as explained by you. I wanted to indicate that

2nd

> house is considred for general intelligence of a native. This

general

> intelligence is not the education.

>

> Visti: I was referring to the 'link' between the 2nd house and

Saraswati in this context.

>

> Moreover

>

> "Vittam Netram Mukham Vidya VakKutumbaShanani Ch |

> DwitiyaSthanaJannyani KramjJyotirVido Vidu: ||

>

> This sloka clearly indicates that 2nd house indicates Vidya as

well.

> I understand that 2nd house should indicate Vidya otherwise also.

The

> karak of 2nd is Jupiter and Budha contols speech. In the ancient

> times learning and teaching was all verbal. Verbal recitation was

key

> for education.

>

> Visti: Keep in mind that there are many karakas for a house.

Guru is Dhana-Karaka - i.e. wealth karaka and hence is karaka for the

2nd house. Buddha is Vacha-karaka for the 2nd house. Moon is kula-

karaka for the 2nd house, and in this way we can go on and on. But

the PRIMARY karaka for the 2nd house is Jupiter.

> You are perfectly right regarding 2nd house and Vidya, as i

stressed before its also relevant in todays context for knowledge.

> The real work/karma of the 2nd house is seen from the 10th from

the 2nd - 11th. The 11th house shows listening and one understanding,

and if the 2nd house is not strong then instead of listening to the

words of the teacher, you blabber endlessly all the time. Hence its

still very important in todays context to see whether a person

controls their desire to talk, and listens to the guru.

>

> All great epics were preserved by ability to memorize and

reproduce

> in verbal fashion. So 2nd house,Jupiter , and Budha must be

> considered for good intelligence. I dont understand how can we

mesure

> intelligence of a person by his ability to discuss. We can atmost

> measure his power of expression. Good power of expression

requires

> vagish well placed along with Budha. Ability to express

effectivly

> makes person good at Vyavahara. This Yoga may not have anything

todo

> with Atmagyaan, but it can make one a very learned person in

> shastras, and Subsequently a step towards being AtmaGyani!.

>

> Visti: This type of messurement is used in the exams in

european countries, where the student is required to give

presentations of their studies. The exams are done in discussion,

hence the messurement factor.

>

> I have a doubt regarding Jupiter and Memory. You have mentioned

> that "The ability to discriminate in knowledge is seen through

> Mercury, i.e. the buddhi which can easily access various types of

> knowledge in the memory." This is the key. Budha as well governs

> ability to remember. What experiences should be stored and which

one

> to forget is done by Budha. This is general intelligence. Jupiter

> should not have any role in this. Jupiter will decide what

> experiences one should get(or should not get) as far as Satvik

nature

> is consider.

>

> Visti: What makes you think Jupiter decides this? Why don't

all planets decide this? Even mercury will.. The discussion on the

planets giving us results, is out of context to this discussion.

>

> All knowledge comes from the Sun, and Jupiter being the biggest

planet in the solar system is the largest to reflect these rays of

the Sun so the native can recieve the knowledge. Hence this ray of

light coming from the sun is sent to the native dhi, or

awareness/intellect, represented by the lagna, and depending on the

natives thought faculty and ahamkara, the knowledge 'penetrates' our

thick skull. To make this easier we bend our index finger - called

tarjani - forming gyana mudra, so that the knowledge comes. Now the

lagna represents this skull which the light has to penetrate before

we become 'enlightened', and the receptive faculty is the Dhi-shakti.

This Dhi-shakti is ruled by Jupiter. When this knowledge has crossed

the wall of the ahamkara, it becomes stored as gyaan in the 5th

house, as this shows the future of the lagna.. i.e. the ray of light

goes from Guru (9th) to the native (1st) and then to the 5th house as

Gyaan or knowledge. The Karaka here is still Jupiter.

>

> The Adhyatma(faculty of ultimate 'knowledge') and Dharma

> experiences might be under the control of Jupiter and not mudane

> daily experiences.

>

> Visti: All knowledge is in the domain of Jupiter. Every person

acceses this domain for different reasons, i.e. the native wanting to

build a house acceses it, and a gyani wanting to write a book acceses

it.. theres no descrimination in the abode of knowledge, only the

person who wants to acces it. This buddhi who works with the

ahamkaraka (hence discriminate in nature) to acces this gyaan, is

mercury. Mercury stores no knowledge it only tries to access just as

a student tries to get knowledge from their teacher.

>

> As far as Maya is concerned, according to YogVashistha the

universe

> is Maya.

>

> Yes, I agree that first we have Ahamkara as Jeevatma and then

mind

> and then Body. But question arises if body has evolved from first

> single ameba cell to multicell human body and mind as well has

> evolved from first single ameba cell mind to multicell human mind

> (Human mind many times shows the signs of other Animal mind!)

then

> this rule should as well be applied to Jeevatma. This spiritual

> evolution is real Pragyan. This you acquire because of good and

> spiritual deeds in the all previous births.

>

> Visti: We are taught that the mind of the native does not

enter the body until the 6th/7th month of pregnancy, hence the mind

does not evolve from/with the body, it only resides in it.

>

> Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

>

> AmolMandar

>

> vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen"

<vishnu@l...>

> wrote:

> > |Hare Rama Krishna|

> > Dear Amolmandar,

> > The sloka you have given is linked to the Saraswati Yoga. I

will

> explain later in this mail.

> >

> > 2nd house is vacha bhava, or house of speech. It does not have

a

> direct link with knowledge i.e. we cannot messure the natives

> intelligence from what they talk about, otherwise what are we to

say

> about those sages who kept mauna vrata (vow of silence) for many

many

> years.

> >

> > But yes we can messure a natives intelligence by their ability

to

> discuss. And when you look at the 2nd house from the Vidya and

Gyaan

> bhavas (4th and 5th), you will find that the 11th from 4th house

is

> the 2nd house, so the gains in education comes from your ability

to

> discuss.. i.e. are you asking the right questions. However when

we

> reckon this from the Gyana bhava, then this becomes more clear:

The

> 2nd house is the 10th - Swarga or heaven, from the 5th house,

hence

> it shows SARASWATI who is listening to the discussions of the

> Gyani's, or intellectuals.

> >

> > Hence when Mercury and Venus are in Kendra, Trikona OR the 2nd

> house, whilst Jupiter is strong or well placed - Saraswati Yoga

> results.

> >

> > This Yoga has nothing todo with Atmagyaan, instead it can make

one

> a very learned person in shastras, and such.

> >

> > I have also added some comments below.

> > Best wishes

> > Visti

> > ---

> > Sri Jagannath Center: http://.org

> > Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org

> > iTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org

> > -

> > Amol Mandar

> > vedic astrology

> > Monday, June 02, 2003 12:27 PM

> > [vedic astrology] Re: How to predict Intelligence

> Quotient (IQ)

> >

> > Dear Visti Namaste

> >

> > I am really thankful for your detailed and enlighting

> > mail. Yes I agree that Gyan means knowledge literally.

> > But sanskrit dictionary translates many words to

> > knowledge . Jna dhatu means 'To know', therefore we

> > translate Gyan,Vigyan to Knowledge literally. But I

> > was curious about the context in which we use Gyan in

> > Sanskrit. It is little bit different than the use of

> > Knowledge in English.

> >

> > Although I am not very sure as I am novice in this

> > shastra but I feel that 2nd house as well indicates

> > vidya. The 4th house is a house of A-Para vidya we may

> > say 'written education' or 'Likhit Vidya'. The 2nd

> > house karak graha is Jupiter and ability to talk is

> > govern by Budha. So possibly 2nd house should indicate

> > intellect along with Budha.

> >

> > Visti: See this i have talked about above. Question is

what

> you mean by intellect? The ability to discriminate in knowledge

is

> seen through Mercury, i.e. the buddhi which can easily access

various

> types of knowledge in the memory. Then when we talk about ability

to

> store all the experiences we've had in this world, we are trying

to

> understand the Akasha Tattwa, which binds together all the events

of

> life. Jupiter rules the Akasha Tattwa and hence rules our memory.

> >

> > That is why it is said

> > " Vagisha Budha Jeeveshu NirVidyo NashaGeshu ch |

> > Kendreshu Te Trikone Va Swakshare Va VidyanVita: ||".

> >

> > This VidyaHinata shown by 2nd house is not of Apara

> > Vidya I suppose. Rather it should be ability to

> > remember, ability to apply SadsadVivekBuddhi i.e.

> > Intelligence,to understand and profit from experience,

> > this is all govern by Budha and 2nd house. We may say

> > that it is VyavaharGyan.

> >

> > Visti: See this is related to Maya, i.e. we get knowledge

and

> we use it for our well being. Hence this is not gyaan in its

purest

> sense, as not all gyaan is used for expanding our wealth or

eloquence.

> >

> > Moreover, reagrding Gyan from past birth, I was not

> > able to express it properly. I wanted to indicate that

> > spiritual evolution is important to have inherant

> > ability to understand and comprehend

> > things(i.e.Pragnya). In each birth, whether we

> > remember it in next or not, if we acquire correct

> > spiritual knowlwdge(AtmaGyan) then subsequently in one

> > of the birth we may attain Moksha. We have to bear

> > wrong deeds perform in the previous births in the

> > present birth. This is reflected in the Kundali by

> > verious Yogs/Doshas like SarpaYog,KalsarpaYog(?) and

> > which is manifested as sorrow and sufferings although

> > we do not remember them in the present birth.

> >

> > Similary, good positive development in spiritual

> > direction done in the previous births must also be

> > reflected in the Kundali(I am not aware of) and is

> > manifested as Pragnya in the present birth.

> >

> > The physical evolution started from single cell amoeba

> > to Human body whereas spiritual evolution is from

> > Jeevatma that was present in first ameba to jeevatma

> > of human being and from there it leads to moksha.

> >

> > Visti: I disagree that we can say that it started from the

> Jeevatma, possibly Paramatma, basically Jeevatma is the first

> experience of duality from the supersoul, and hence the first

> experience of Ahamkara. Later we get a mind and then a body to

> fulfill our karma.

> >

> > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

> >

> > AmolMandar

> >

> > Plus - For a better Internet experience

> > http://uk.promotions./yplus/yoffer.html

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> > Group info: vedic-

astrology/info.html

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

>

> >

> > Terms of

> Service.

>

> Sponsor

>

> To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

>

> Terms of

Service.

June 2, 2003

Respected Gurus,

This discussion has been quite revealing and enlightening.

I have a basic question:

What role does D-24(Chaturvimsamsa) chart play in deciding natives

intelligence? Is 5th house in D-24 crucial for sharp intellect? I am

asking this question because I went through earlier discussions in

this list done 3 years ago which mention about D-24. Also I looked

into D-24 charts of geniuses like Einstein, Heisenberg, Poincare,

Ramanujan, Wittgenstein etc., and found that 5th house in D-24 is

strongly fortified by Jupiter or Mercury

Also how do we explain the strong relationship between Autism and

extraordinary intelligence?

thanks and regards,

K.Srinivasan

vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...>

wrote:

> |Namah Shiväya|

> Dear Amolmandar,

> Comments below.

> Best wishes

> Visti

> ---

> Sri Jagannath Center: http://.org

> Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org

> iTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org

> -

> amolmandar

> vedic astrology

> Monday, June 02, 2003 6:18 PM

> [vedic astrology] Re: How to predict Intelligence

Quotient (IQ)

>

> Dear Visti Namaste

>

> There seems to be some confusion. The earlier shloka that I had given

> may mean Saraswati yoga but literally(according to my little

> knowledge of Sanskrit) it means that vagish i.e. Dwitiyesh,Budha and

> Jeeva(Jupiter) if are in 8th house(NashaGeshu) indicate VidyaHinata

> (NirVidyo) this is what first line means and in the second it gives

> the exception to this rule as if separated in Kendra or Trikona or

> in Swarashi makes the person intelligent. Now I suppose here there is

> no Saraswati Yoga as explained by you. I wanted to indicate that 2nd

> house is considred for general intelligence of a native. This general

> intelligence is not the education.

>

> Visti: I was referring to the 'link' between the 2nd house and

Saraswati in this context.

>

> Moreover

>

> "Vittam Netram Mukham Vidya VakKutumbaShanani Ch |

> DwitiyaSthanaJannyani KramjJyotirVido Vidu: ||

>

> This sloka clearly indicates that 2nd house indicates Vidya as well.

> I understand that 2nd house should indicate Vidya otherwise also. The

> karak of 2nd is Jupiter and Budha contols speech. In the ancient

> times learning and teaching was all verbal. Verbal recitation was key

> for education.

>

> Visti: Keep in mind that there are many karakas for a house.

Guru is Dhana-Karaka - i.e. wealth karaka and hence is karaka for the

2nd house. Buddha is Vacha-karaka for the 2nd house. Moon is

kula-karaka for the 2nd house, and in this way we can go on and on.

But the PRIMARY karaka for the 2nd house is Jupiter.

> You are perfectly right regarding 2nd house and Vidya, as i

stressed before its also relevant in todays context for knowledge.

> The real work/karma of the 2nd house is seen from the 10th from

the 2nd - 11th. The 11th house shows listening and one understanding,

and if the 2nd house is not strong then instead of listening to the

words of the teacher, you blabber endlessly all the time. Hence its

still very important in todays context to see whether a person

controls their desire to talk, and listens to the guru.

>

> All great epics were preserved by ability to memorize and reproduce

> in verbal fashion. So 2nd house,Jupiter , and Budha must be

> considered for good intelligence. I dont understand how can we mesure

> intelligence of a person by his ability to discuss. We can atmost

> measure his power of expression. Good power of expression requires

> vagish well placed along with Budha. Ability to express effectivly

> makes person good at Vyavahara. This Yoga may not have anything todo

> with Atmagyaan, but it can make one a very learned person in

> shastras, and Subsequently a step towards being AtmaGyani!.

>

> Visti: This type of messurement is used in the exams in

european countries, where the student is required to give

presentations of their studies. The exams are done in discussion,

hence the messurement factor.

>

> I have a doubt regarding Jupiter and Memory. You have mentioned

> that "The ability to discriminate in knowledge is seen through

> Mercury, i.e. the buddhi which can easily access various types of

> knowledge in the memory." This is the key. Budha as well governs

> ability to remember. What experiences should be stored and which one

> to forget is done by Budha. This is general intelligence. Jupiter

> should not have any role in this. Jupiter will decide what

> experiences one should get(or should not get) as far as Satvik nature

> is consider.

>

> Visti: What makes you think Jupiter decides this? Why don't all

planets decide this? Even mercury will.. The discussion on the planets

giving us results, is out of context to this discussion.

>

> All knowledge comes from the Sun, and Jupiter being the biggest

planet in the solar system is the largest to reflect these rays of the

Sun so the native can recieve the knowledge. Hence this ray of light

coming from the sun is sent to the native dhi, or awareness/intellect,

represented by the lagna, and depending on the natives thought faculty

and ahamkara, the knowledge 'penetrates' our thick skull. To make this

easier we bend our index finger - called tarjani - forming gyana

mudra, so that the knowledge comes. Now the lagna represents this

skull which the light has to penetrate before we become 'enlightened',

and the receptive faculty is the Dhi-shakti. This Dhi-shakti is ruled

by Jupiter. When this knowledge has crossed the wall of the ahamkara,

it becomes stored as gyaan in the 5th house, as this shows the future

of the lagna.. i.e. the ray of light goes from Guru (9th) to the

native (1st) and then to the 5th house as Gyaan or knowledge. The

Karaka here is still Jupiter.

>

> The Adhyatma(faculty of ultimate 'knowledge') and Dharma

> experiences might be under the control of Jupiter and not mudane

> daily experiences.

>

> Visti: All knowledge is in the domain of Jupiter. Every person

acceses this domain for different reasons, i.e. the native wanting to

build a house acceses it, and a gyani wanting to write a book acceses

it.. theres no descrimination in the abode of knowledge, only the

person who wants to acces it. This buddhi who works with the

ahamkaraka (hence discriminate in nature) to acces this gyaan, is

mercury. Mercury stores no knowledge it only tries to access just as a

student tries to get knowledge from their teacher.

>

> As far as Maya is concerned, according to YogVashistha the universe

> is Maya.

>

> Yes, I agree that first we have Ahamkara as Jeevatma and then mind

> and then Body. But question arises if body has evolved from first

> single ameba cell to multicell human body and mind as well has

> evolved from first single ameba cell mind to multicell human mind

> (Human mind many times shows the signs of other Animal mind!) then

> this rule should as well be applied to Jeevatma. This spiritual

> evolution is real Pragyan. This you acquire because of good and

> spiritual deeds in the all previous births.

>

> Visti: We are taught that the mind of the native does not enter

the body until the 6th/7th month of pregnancy, hence the mind does not

evolve from/with the body, it only resides in it.

>

> Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

>

> AmolMandar

>

> vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...>

> wrote:

> > |Hare Rama Krishna|

> > Dear Amolmandar,

> > The sloka you have given is linked to the Saraswati Yoga. I will

> explain later in this mail.

> >

> > 2nd house is vacha bhava, or house of speech. It does not have a

> direct link with knowledge i.e. we cannot messure the natives

> intelligence from what they talk about, otherwise what are we to say

> about those sages who kept mauna vrata (vow of silence) for many many

> years.

> >

> > But yes we can messure a natives intelligence by their ability to

> discuss. And when you look at the 2nd house from the Vidya and Gyaan

> bhavas (4th and 5th), you will find that the 11th from 4th house is

> the 2nd house, so the gains in education comes from your ability to

> discuss.. i.e. are you asking the right questions. However when we

> reckon this from the Gyana bhava, then this becomes more clear: The

> 2nd house is the 10th - Swarga or heaven, from the 5th house, hence

> it shows SARASWATI who is listening to the discussions of the

> Gyani's, or intellectuals.

> >

> > Hence when Mercury and Venus are in Kendra, Trikona OR the 2nd

> house, whilst Jupiter is strong or well placed - Saraswati Yoga

> results.

> >

> > This Yoga has nothing todo with Atmagyaan, instead it can make one

> a very learned person in shastras, and such.

> >

> > I have also added some comments below.

> > Best wishes

> > Visti

> > ---

> > Sri Jagannath Center: http://.org

> > Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org

> > iTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org

> > -

> > Amol Mandar

> > vedic astrology

> > Monday, June 02, 2003 12:27 PM

> > [vedic astrology] Re: How to predict Intelligence

> Quotient (IQ)

> >

> > Dear Visti Namaste

> >

> > I am really thankful for your detailed and enlighting

> > mail. Yes I agree that Gyan means knowledge literally.

> > But sanskrit dictionary translates many words to

> > knowledge . Jna dhatu means 'To know', therefore we

> > translate Gyan,Vigyan to Knowledge literally. But I

> > was curious about the context in which we use Gyan in

> > Sanskrit. It is little bit different than the use of

> > Knowledge in English.

> >

> > Although I am not very sure as I am novice in this

> > shastra but I feel that 2nd house as well indicates

> > vidya. The 4th house is a house of A-Para vidya we may

> > say 'written education' or 'Likhit Vidya'. The 2nd

> > house karak graha is Jupiter and ability to talk is

> > govern by Budha. So possibly 2nd house should indicate

> > intellect along with Budha.

> >

> > Visti: See this i have talked about above. Question is what

> you mean by intellect? The ability to discriminate in knowledge is

> seen through Mercury, i.e. the buddhi which can easily access various

> types of knowledge in the memory. Then when we talk about ability to

> store all the experiences we've had in this world, we are trying to

> understand the Akasha Tattwa, which binds together all the events of

> life. Jupiter rules the Akasha Tattwa and hence rules our memory.

> >

> > That is why it is said

> > " Vagisha Budha Jeeveshu NirVidyo NashaGeshu ch |

> > Kendreshu Te Trikone Va Swakshare Va VidyanVita: ||".

> >

> > This VidyaHinata shown by 2nd house is not of Apara

> > Vidya I suppose. Rather it should be ability to

> > remember, ability to apply SadsadVivekBuddhi i.e.

> > Intelligence,to understand and profit from experience,

> > this is all govern by Budha and 2nd house. We may say

> > that it is VyavaharGyan.

> >

> > Visti: See this is related to Maya, i.e. we get knowledge and

> we use it for our well being. Hence this is not gyaan in its purest

> sense, as not all gyaan is used for expanding our wealth or eloquence.

> >

> > Moreover, reagrding Gyan from past birth, I was not

> > able to express it properly. I wanted to indicate that

> > spiritual evolution is important to have inherant

> > ability to understand and comprehend

> > things(i.e.Pragnya). In each birth, whether we

> > remember it in next or not, if we acquire correct

> > spiritual knowlwdge(AtmaGyan) then subsequently in one

> > of the birth we may attain Moksha. We have to bear

> > wrong deeds perform in the previous births in the

> > present birth. This is reflected in the Kundali by

> > verious Yogs/Doshas like SarpaYog,KalsarpaYog(?) and

> > which is manifested as sorrow and sufferings although

> > we do not remember them in the present birth.

> >

> > Similary, good positive development in spiritual

> > direction done in the previous births must also be

> > reflected in the Kundali(I am not aware of) and is

> > manifested as Pragnya in the present birth.

> >

> > The physical evolution started from single cell amoeba

> > to Human body whereas spiritual evolution is from

> > Jeevatma that was present in first ameba to jeevatma

> > of human being and from there it leads to moksha.

> >

> > Visti: I disagree that we can say that it started from the

> Jeevatma, possibly Paramatma, basically Jeevatma is the first

> experience of duality from the supersoul, and hence the first

> experience of Ahamkara. Later we get a mind and then a body to

> fulfill our karma.

> >

> > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

> >

> > AmolMandar

> >

> > Plus - For a better Internet experience

> > http://uk.promotions./yplus/yoffer.html

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

>

> >

> > Terms of

> Service.

>

> Sponsor

>

June 3, 2003

Respected gurus,

I just want to add few points to this discussion.

1. Mercury, Sun will be always located quite nearer to each other in

any rasi chart.

2. This increases of probability of mercury undergoing combust with

Sun.

This may not be one and only factor as we know most of the people are

ordinary in their intellect in their nature.

3. I am sure that there are some other factors which will influence

the outcome. Like on which star Mercury, Jupiter, Saturn located

might also influence.

I have no idea how to conclude apart from this.

Let us take the following example, just for the argument sake.

Sun/Mercury located in Aquarius {10th} and Saturn located in the 1st

i.e., Vrishabha. Does the combustion of mercury gets effected under

the influence of saturn ?

Here budha is lord of 2nd and 5th.

Regards

Ravi Shankar

vedic astrology, "K.Srinivasan"

<ka_shrinivaasan> wrote:

> Respected Gurus,

>

> This discussion has been quite revealing and enlightening.

>

> I have a basic question:

> What role does D-24(Chaturvimsamsa) chart play in deciding natives

> intelligence? Is 5th house in D-24 crucial for sharp intellect? I am

> asking this question because I went through earlier discussions in

> this list done 3 years ago which mention about D-24. Also I looked

> into D-24 charts of geniuses like Einstein, Heisenberg, Poincare,

> Ramanujan, Wittgenstein etc., and found that 5th house in D-24 is

> strongly fortified by Jupiter or Mercury

>

> Also how do we explain the strong relationship between Autism and

> extraordinary intelligence?

>

> thanks and regards,

> K.Srinivasan

>

> vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen" <vishnu@l...>

> wrote:

> > |Namah Shiväya|

> > Dear Amolmandar,

> > Comments below.

> > Best wishes

> > Visti

> > ---

> > Sri Jagannath Center: http://.org

> > Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org

> > iTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org

> > -

> > amolmandar

> > vedic astrology

> > Monday, June 02, 2003 6:18 PM

> > [vedic astrology] Re: How to predict Intelligence

> Quotient (IQ)

> >

> > Dear Visti Namaste

> >

> > There seems to be some confusion. The earlier shloka that I had

given

> > may mean Saraswati yoga but literally(according to my little

> > knowledge of Sanskrit) it means that vagish i.e.

Dwitiyesh,Budha and

> > Jeeva(Jupiter) if are in 8th house(NashaGeshu) indicate

VidyaHinata

> > (NirVidyo) this is what first line means and in the second it

gives

> > the exception to this rule as if separated in Kendra or

Trikona or

> > in Swarashi makes the person intelligent. Now I suppose here

there is

> > no Saraswati Yoga as explained by you. I wanted to indicate

that 2nd

> > house is considred for general intelligence of a native. This

general

> > intelligence is not the education.

> >

> > Visti: I was referring to the 'link' between the 2nd house

and

> Saraswati in this context.

> >

> > Moreover

> >

> > "Vittam Netram Mukham Vidya VakKutumbaShanani Ch |

> > DwitiyaSthanaJannyani KramjJyotirVido Vidu: ||

> >

> > This sloka clearly indicates that 2nd house indicates Vidya as

well.

> > I understand that 2nd house should indicate Vidya otherwise

also. The

> > karak of 2nd is Jupiter and Budha contols speech. In the

ancient

> > times learning and teaching was all verbal. Verbal recitation

was key

> > for education.

> >

> > Visti: Keep in mind that there are many karakas for a house.

> Guru is Dhana-Karaka - i.e. wealth karaka and hence is karaka for

the

> 2nd house. Buddha is Vacha-karaka for the 2nd house. Moon is

> kula-karaka for the 2nd house, and in this way we can go on and on.

> But the PRIMARY karaka for the 2nd house is Jupiter.

> > You are perfectly right regarding 2nd house and Vidya, as i

> stressed before its also relevant in todays context for knowledge.

> > The real work/karma of the 2nd house is seen from the 10th from

> the 2nd - 11th. The 11th house shows listening and one

understanding,

> and if the 2nd house is not strong then instead of listening to the

> words of the teacher, you blabber endlessly all the time. Hence its

> still very important in todays context to see whether a person

> controls their desire to talk, and listens to the guru.

> >

> > All great epics were preserved by ability to memorize and

reproduce

> > in verbal fashion. So 2nd house,Jupiter , and Budha must be

> > considered for good intelligence. I dont understand how can we

mesure

> > intelligence of a person by his ability to discuss. We can

atmost

> > measure his power of expression. Good power of expression

requires

> > vagish well placed along with Budha. Ability to express

effectivly

> > makes person good at Vyavahara. This Yoga may not have anything

todo

> > with Atmagyaan, but it can make one a very learned person in

> > shastras, and Subsequently a step towards being AtmaGyani!.

> >

> > Visti: This type of messurement is used in the exams in

> european countries, where the student is required to give

> presentations of their studies. The exams are done in discussion,

> hence the messurement factor.

> >

> > I have a doubt regarding Jupiter and Memory. You have mentioned

> > that "The ability to discriminate in knowledge is seen through

> > Mercury, i.e. the buddhi which can easily access various types

of

> > knowledge in the memory." This is the key. Budha as well

governs

> > ability to remember. What experiences should be stored and

which one

> > to forget is done by Budha. This is general intelligence.

Jupiter

> > should not have any role in this. Jupiter will decide what

> > experiences one should get(or should not get) as far as Satvik

nature

> > is consider.

> >

> > Visti: What makes you think Jupiter decides this? Why don't

all

> planets decide this? Even mercury will.. The discussion on the

planets

> giving us results, is out of context to this discussion.

> >

> > All knowledge comes from the Sun, and Jupiter being the biggest

> planet in the solar system is the largest to reflect these rays of

the

> Sun so the native can recieve the knowledge. Hence this ray of light

> coming from the sun is sent to the native dhi, or

awareness/intellect,

> represented by the lagna, and depending on the natives thought

faculty

> and ahamkara, the knowledge 'penetrates' our thick skull. To make

this

> easier we bend our index finger - called tarjani - forming gyana

> mudra, so that the knowledge comes. Now the lagna represents this

> skull which the light has to penetrate before we

become 'enlightened',

> and the receptive faculty is the Dhi-shakti. This Dhi-shakti is

ruled

> by Jupiter. When this knowledge has crossed the wall of the

ahamkara,

> it becomes stored as gyaan in the 5th house, as this shows the

future

> of the lagna.. i.e. the ray of light goes from Guru (9th) to the

> native (1st) and then to the 5th house as Gyaan or knowledge. The

> Karaka here is still Jupiter.

> >

> > The Adhyatma(faculty of ultimate 'knowledge') and Dharma

> > experiences might be under the control of Jupiter and not

mudane

> > daily experiences.

> >

> > Visti: All knowledge is in the domain of Jupiter. Every

person

> acceses this domain for different reasons, i.e. the native wanting

to

> build a house acceses it, and a gyani wanting to write a book

acceses

> it.. theres no descrimination in the abode of knowledge, only the

> person who wants to acces it. This buddhi who works with the

> ahamkaraka (hence discriminate in nature) to acces this gyaan, is

> mercury. Mercury stores no knowledge it only tries to access just

as a

> student tries to get knowledge from their teacher.

> >

> > As far as Maya is concerned, according to YogVashistha the

universe

> > is Maya.

> >

> > Yes, I agree that first we have Ahamkara as Jeevatma and then

mind

> > and then Body. But question arises if body has evolved from

first

> > single ameba cell to multicell human body and mind as well has

> > evolved from first single ameba cell mind to multicell human

mind

> > (Human mind many times shows the signs of other Animal mind!)

then

> > this rule should as well be applied to Jeevatma. This spiritual

> > evolution is real Pragyan. This you acquire because of good and

> > spiritual deeds in the all previous births.

> >

> > Visti: We are taught that the mind of the native does not

enter

> the body until the 6th/7th month of pregnancy, hence the mind does

not

> evolve from/with the body, it only resides in it.

> >

> > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

> >

> > AmolMandar

> >

> > vedic astrology, "Visti Larsen"

<vishnu@l...>

> > wrote:

> > > |Hare Rama Krishna|

> > > Dear Amolmandar,

> > > The sloka you have given is linked to the Saraswati Yoga. I

will

> > explain later in this mail.

> > >

> > > 2nd house is vacha bhava, or house of speech. It does not

have a

> > direct link with knowledge i.e. we cannot messure the natives

> > intelligence from what they talk about, otherwise what are we

to say

> > about those sages who kept mauna vrata (vow of silence) for

many many

> > years.

> > >

> > > But yes we can messure a natives intelligence by their

ability to

> > discuss. And when you look at the 2nd house from the Vidya and

Gyaan

> > bhavas (4th and 5th), you will find that the 11th from 4th

house is

> > the 2nd house, so the gains in education comes from your

ability to

> > discuss.. i.e. are you asking the right questions. However when

we

> > reckon this from the Gyana bhava, then this becomes more clear:

The

> > 2nd house is the 10th - Swarga or heaven, from the 5th house,

hence

> > it shows SARASWATI who is listening to the discussions of the

> > Gyani's, or intellectuals.

> > >

> > > Hence when Mercury and Venus are in Kendra, Trikona OR the

2nd

> > house, whilst Jupiter is strong or well placed - Saraswati Yoga

> > results.

> > >

> > > This Yoga has nothing todo with Atmagyaan, instead it can

make one

> > a very learned person in shastras, and such.

> > >

> > > I have also added some comments below.

> > > Best wishes

> > > Visti

> > > ---

> > > Sri Jagannath Center: http://.org

> > > Bhagavad Purana: http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org

> > > iTRANS 99 Font: http://www.omkarananda-ashram.org

> > > -

> > > Amol Mandar

> > > vedic astrology

> > > Monday, June 02, 2003 12:27 PM

> > > [vedic astrology] Re: How to predict Intelligence

> > Quotient (IQ)

> > >

> > > Dear Visti Namaste

> > >

> > > I am really thankful for your detailed and enlighting

> > > mail. Yes I agree that Gyan means knowledge literally.

> > > But sanskrit dictionary translates many words to

> > > knowledge . Jna dhatu means 'To know', therefore we

> > > translate Gyan,Vigyan to Knowledge literally. But I

> > > was curious about the context in which we use Gyan in

> > > Sanskrit. It is little bit different than the use of

> > > Knowledge in English.

> > >

> > > Although I am not very sure as I am novice in this

> > > shastra but I feel that 2nd house as well indicates

> > > vidya. The 4th house is a house of A-Para vidya we may

> > > say 'written education' or 'Likhit Vidya'. The 2nd

> > > house karak graha is Jupiter and ability to talk is

> > > govern by Budha. So possibly 2nd house should indicate

> > > intellect along with Budha.

> > >

> > > Visti: See this i have talked about above. Question is

what

> > you mean by intellect? The ability to discriminate in knowledge

is

> > seen through Mercury, i.e. the buddhi which can easily access

various

> > types of knowledge in the memory. Then when we talk about

ability to

> > store all the experiences we've had in this world, we are

trying to

> > understand the Akasha Tattwa, which binds together all the

events of

> > life. Jupiter rules the Akasha Tattwa and hence rules our

memory.

> > >

> > > That is why it is said

> > > " Vagisha Budha Jeeveshu NirVidyo NashaGeshu ch |

> > > Kendreshu Te Trikone Va Swakshare Va VidyanVita: ||".

> > >

> > > This VidyaHinata shown by 2nd house is not of Apara

> > > Vidya I suppose. Rather it should be ability to

> > > remember, ability to apply SadsadVivekBuddhi i.e.

> > > Intelligence,to understand and profit from experience,

> > > this is all govern by Budha and 2nd house. We may say

> > > that it is VyavaharGyan.

> > >

> > > Visti: See this is related to Maya, i.e. we get

knowledge and

> > we use it for our well being. Hence this is not gyaan in its

purest

> > sense, as not all gyaan is used for expanding our wealth or

eloquence.

> > >

> > > Moreover, reagrding Gyan from past birth, I was not

> > > able to express it properly. I wanted to indicate that

> > > spiritual evolution is important to have inherant

> > > ability to understand and comprehend

> > > things(i.e.Pragnya). In each birth, whether we

> > > remember it in next or not, if we acquire correct

> > > spiritual knowlwdge(AtmaGyan) then subsequently in one

> > > of the birth we may attain Moksha. We have to bear

> > > wrong deeds perform in the previous births in the

> > > present birth. This is reflected in the Kundali by

> > > verious Yogs/Doshas like SarpaYog,KalsarpaYog(?) and

> > > which is manifested as sorrow and sufferings although

> > > we do not remember them in the present birth.

> > >

> > > Similary, good positive development in spiritual

> > > direction done in the previous births must also be

> > > reflected in the Kundali(I am not aware of) and is

> > > manifested as Pragnya in the present birth.

> > >

> > > The physical evolution started from single cell amoeba

> > > to Human body whereas spiritual evolution is from

> > > Jeevatma that was present in first ameba to jeevatma

> > > of human being and from there it leads to moksha.

> > >

> > > Visti: I disagree that we can say that it started from

the

> > Jeevatma, possibly Paramatma, basically Jeevatma is the first

> > experience of duality from the supersoul, and hence the first

> > experience of Ahamkara. Later we get a mind and then a body to

> > fulfill our karma.

> > >

> > > Thanks a lot for your Time and Space.

> > >

> > > AmolMandar

> > >

> > > Plus - For a better Internet experience

> > > http://uk.promotions./yplus/yoffer.html

> > >

> > > Sponsor

> > >

> > > Group info: vedic-

astrology/info.html

> > >

> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> >

> > >

> > > Terms of

> > Service.

> >

> > Sponsor

> >

> > Group info: vedic-

astrology/info.html

> >

> > To UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-

> >

> > Terms of

Service.

June 3, 2003

NAMO BHAGAVATHE VAASUDEVAYA !!

Dear Visti

Excellent explanation..

Raghu