Guest guest Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 JAYA JAGANNATHA! Dear Sanjayji, Namaste. I would be interested to know what do you mean by dynasty here? Lord Vamamadeva was the son of Diti and Kashyapa Muni, and Brihaspati was the son of Maharsi Angira. Angira was Brahma's mental son, and Kashyapa was the son of Marici, who is the controlling deity of the Maruts, the wind-gods. He is also the mental son of Brahma, so Vamana and Brihaspati came in different dynasties (first is Angira-gotra, the second is Marici-gotra). There is noi information given in the Srimad Bhagavatam about the appearance of Matsya, as He was found by king Satyavrata, the son ot Vivasvan (Sun-god). So He was found in the waterof the river Krtamala, which is akin to Ketu being in Moolatrikona in Pisces, a watery sign. But on the other hand, Ketu is supposed to be the trunk of the demon Rahu, who was the son of Vipracitti, and according to SB 6.6.37. has one hundred younger brothers, who were called Ketus. Vipracitti was the son of Kashyapa and Danu. Narasimha was born out of a pillar in Indra's palace, so it is difficult to assure in which dynasty He appeared. Mars is said to be the son of Sarva and Vikesi, who is the Earth. Also Kartikkeya is linked to Mars, he was the son of Lord Siva. Mercury is said to be the son of Tara and Chandra, so he is from the Moon, dsynasty, but considered to be from Brihaspati's dinasty, ans Tara is Brihaspati's wife. Lord Buddha was bor as the son of Anjana, no idea about dinasty. The Moon, Chandra was the son of Atri muni and Anasuya. Lord Krishna indeed appeared in Soma-vamsa, ro Moon-dinasty. Rahu's origins we have discussed. Lord Varahadeva was born out of Lord Brahma's nostril. Saturn was the son of Surya and Chaya, so technically he is in Surya-vamsa. Kurmadeva's birth is not described. He just appeared in the water. Surya or Vivasvan was born as the son of Kashyapa and Diti. Lord Rama indeed appeared in Surya-vamsa. Yours, Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer gauranga (AT) brihaspati (DOT) net Jyotish Remedies: WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET Phone:+36-309-140-839 Remedial Devatas (Lords) to be worshipped for the deficiencies or impediments with the nine Planets: The following is a list of personalities who either rule the various planets and thus have dominion over them, or come from or appeared in that dynasty, and so have influence over that planet. Therefore it is advised to offer homage/worship/puja/service to that presiding personality to gain His favour to alleviate malefic situations being caused by the planetary influence. Jupiter Dynasty: The Dwarf incarnation of the Lord Vamandeva, was from the Jupiter dynasty. He is to be considered Jeevamsa and Parmatmansa combined incarnation . Ketu Dynasty: The Fish incarnation of the Lord Matsya was from Ketu dynasty. He too was Jeevamsa and Parmatmamsa combined incarnation . Mars Dynasty: The Narasimha, half man half lion incarnation of the Lord was from the Mars dynasty. He was fully Parmatmamsa incarnation . Mercury Dynasty: Lord Buddha the combined incarnation was from the Mercurean dynasty. He was Jeevamsa and Paramatmamsa. The Moon Dynasty: Lord Krishna, the in Supreme Personality of God was from the Moon dynasty. He was fully Parmatmamsa incarnation - the Avatari. Rahu Dynasty: The wild Boar, the incarnation of God Varaha was from the Rahu dynasty. He was fully Parmatmamsa incarnation . Saturn Dynasty: The Tortoise, the incarnation of God Kurma was from the Saturn dynasty. He was Jeevamsa and Parmatmamsa combined incarnation . Sun Dynasty: Lord Rama, the incarnation of Lord was from Solar dynasty. He was fully Parmatmamsa incarnation . Venusian Dynasty: Sage Bhargava (Jamadagni the father of Parasuram), the plenary incarnation of God was from Venusian dynasty. (The Bhargava dynasty comes down from Bhrgumuni) He was Jeevamsa and Parmatmamsa combined incarnation . Devi Deities are: Lakshmi. (Mohini, Saraswati) Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... --- Hirdetes --- Álláspályázat! Az IT Információs Társadalom Kht. divízióvezetöket keres a Nemzeti Digitális Adattár projekt, illetve a KözHáló projekt vezetésére. További részletek: http://ad.adverticum.net/b/cl,1,4008,20775,26462/click.prm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 Aum Namah Shivaya I have seen Sanjay's reply just now. While typing my answer, someone came and I had to talk for a while. The interruption resulted in the delay in posting. Regards, Sanjay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2003 Report Share Posted June 3, 2003 Dear Sanjayji, Being least knowledgeable amongst the learned, I should not interfere. But I feel that the meanings of Kula Vamsha and Gotra are not being correctly conveyed. Kula means a particular Class in the society, that one belongs to Viz. Rishi-Kula,Bramhana Kula, Kshtriya Kula etc. Vansha means Clan viz Yadu Vansha, Raghu Vansha, Surya Vansha etc. And, Gotra means: Paternal lineage by birth, more like pedigree. That is why marriages with another of same Gotra is prohibited by Shashtra in Hindus. The ancients were aware of what happens when inbreeding takes place. It leads to fixing of type and loos of size, deformaties and mental abnormalities. You will find evidence of this in those small clans wher such type of marriages are permissible. Even when conducting a puja one has to tell his Gotra like if I have to tell my gotra I would say "‘Angirasa, Ambarisha, Yavanashva thriyarisheya pravaranvitha, Haritasa Gotra Ashwalayana sutra, Rik Shaka, Adhyayee, Chandrashekhar Sharma, aham bho abhivadaye.’ " Regards, Chandrashekhar. - Sanjay Rath vedic astrology Tuesday, June 03, 2003 8:31 AM RE: [vedic astrology] Dasavatara Stotra |brihaspatim varenyam| Dear Gauranga I have been struggling with these words for some time and do not have perfect answers as I do for Jyotish - the difference being that Guru Kripa came for the latter and not for the spirituality which has been largely a personal effort. The words concerned are (1) Kula, (2) Vamsa and (3) Gotra . Now we have to first find the equivalent english words for these. To my mind (at present, and needs the confirmation of Gordon, Narasimha others), these are (1) Family or Dynasty (2) Lineage and (3) Spiritual Lineage (based on the rishis) respectively. The word meanings are given under for ready reference. You can see that I am not clear myself regarding the english terminology. Now, let us try to examine the issues: (1) You say "so Vamana and Brihaspati came in different dynasties (first is Angira-gotra, the second is Marici-gotra)" implying that the gotra is the dynasty. Later you also say "Mercury is said to be the son of Tara and Chandra, so he is from the Moon, dynasty, but considered to be from Brihaspati's dinasty, and Tara is Brihaspati's wife. " So, you can see the confusion out here. This confusion in english terminology is due to not being clear about the translations of the three words I have indicated. Let us first fix the question about Sri Krishna: Yadu kula meaning that the physical level immediate family were the Yadavas; Chandra-Vamsa meaning that the lineage of inherited faiths, beliefs and life systems are from that of the Moon. Sri Krishna taught the highest level of Sankhya philosophy (Moon), and displayed the great compassion, mercy, equanimity etc of the moon lineage. The Moon line is traced to Maharishi Atri and Anusuya. They had many sons like Rath-atreya, Soma-atreya, Durvasa, Datta-atreya etc. Whereas sons like Rath-atreya were given the task of receiving the Vedas, experimenting and studying astrology, astronomy and ayurveda, the other three were given special tasks as they were the avatars of Brahma (Soma-atreya), Vishnu (Datta-atreya) and Shiva (Durvasa). The vaishnava spiritual thought in the samkhya school of Atri got a fillip with the advent of Sri Krishna who although born to the Yadavas, was the greatest teacher of Samkhya as recorded in the gita. Krishna's understanding and faith in the lineage is stated in the Bhagavatam 11.7 (Lord Krishna instructs Uddhava) and following chapters.Very specifically, Sri Krishna refers to Dattatreya in SB 11.7.25 avadhütaà dviyaà kaïciccarantam akuto-bhayamkavià nirékñya taruëaàyaduù papraccha dharma-vit The avadhuta brahmana is Dattatreya and the detailed teaching of the 24 gurus of Dattatreya follows this stanza.Thus it is evident that 'Vamsa' refers to a lineage based on faith, teachings and 'dharma'. Sri Krishna went on to become an illustrious king of the Yadu dynasty (note that dynasty is used with Kula/family) ans was the greatest ever teacher of the Chandra-vamsa lineage. It was the good fortune of the Moon that such a great avatar should incarnate for its lineage. In the world, dynasty is more important but in India, lineage is more important. This difference should always be borne in mind. Nobody in India cares if Sri Krishna came in the family of the Yadavas but what matters is what He taught. Sri Krishna established the Sri Somanath Jyotirlinga and accordingly Sri Somanath has been worshipped as the Kula devata of all members of the Atri Gotra who have any association with ancient Dwarka. So, in my view, the correct terminology should be lineage and not dynasty. Secondly, the avatars incarnate with the highest rays of the concerned Graha/Lagna and the lineage can be different based on the Graha instead of the Kula. Similarly, Sri Vamana appeared in the Marici-gotra (here -Kula) but His teachings and Karma yoga related to the work of Brihaspati (Angirasa gotra). Thus, Sri Vamana is considered as the highest avatar of Jupiter based on Karma yoga. Also bear in mind that for the avatars, Karma yoga shall determine and not Bhakti yoga. The latter (bhakti) is the higher yoga for lesser beings like us. Here comes the great learning of Brihaspati - "OM bhur, bhuva svah". Out of context so I leave it. Now the appearance of the Lord for a purpose does not mean that He was not born or did not have a Kula or Gotra. For this, extensive study of the Purana and other literature is required. For rxample, you write "Narasimha was born out of a pillar in Indra's palace, so it is difficult to assure in which dynasty He appeared. Mars is said to be the son of Sarva and Vikesi, who is the Earth." Now this shows that you have to read the Narasimha Purana thoroughly. In the Chapter 'Sesha Nrisimha nama-karana and samudrika lakshana', it is mentioned that Sri Nrisimha was born in the house of Maharaja Sri Krishna-vallabha (father) in Madhya-pura. His father declared festivities and prayers for 21 days and donated asta-ratna. The horoscope was prepared by Brihaspati Who had visited in the form of a brahmin-brahmanchari to advise the Maharaja for the name. Horoscope of Sri Nrisimha Sri Brihaspati noted: Jyesta sukla panchami tithi Guruvara was the day of birth/appearance of the Lord Nrisimha.Pusya nakshatra, Brahma Yoga, Karkata Rasi, Grishma ritu. Sri Brihaspati looked at the hands and body for lakshana and suddenly he saw the fourhands holding the sankha, chakra, gada and padma. He closed his eyes and meditated in his heart lotus and realised that the child was 'swayam Jagannatha'. There seems to be some corruption in the text and the planetary positions do not match the above information, or maybe my understanding could be wrong as I am thinking of Jyestha masa as Sun in Taurus based on present day positions. Anyway here it is:Second child / not clear.. Lagna: Jupiter & Venus Seventh house - Moon Second house - Sun Third house - Rahu & Mars Sixth house with 'Amrita dristi' (any idea what this means) - Saturn The chart is attached. In another place the Lagna is specifically mentioned as Mina, then there must have been a corruption in the text and instead of Saptama Chandra it should be Panchama chandra. Then everything fits. Both charts are attached for your study and the benefit of this erudite group of astrologers. With this, I leave it to you to work and find out the reasons for the specific avatars being known as the highest incarnation of the Graha/Lagna. fam-i-ly (fam'uh lee, fam'lee) n. pl. <-lies> adj. n. 1. parents and their children, considered as a group, whether dwelling together or not. 2. the children of one person or one couple collectively: We want a family of one girl and one boy. 3. the spouse and children of one person: I'm taking the family on vacation next week. 4. any group of persons closely related by blood, as parents, children, uncles, aunts, and cousins. 5. all those persons considered as descendants of a common progenitor. 6. a group of persons who form a household, esp. under one head. 7. the staff, or body of assistants, of an official: the presidential family. 8. a group of related things or individuals: the halogen family of elements. 9. a group of people who are generally not blood relations but who share common attitudes, interests, or goals. 10. Biol. the usual major subdivision of an order or suborder in the classification of plants, animals, fungi, etc., usu. consisting of several genera. 11. Ling. the largest category into which languages related by common origin can be classified with certainty: the Indo-European and Sino-Tibetan families of languages. Compare STOCK (DEF. 12), subfamily (def. 2). 12. a local unit of the Mafia or Cosa Nostra. adj. 13. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a family: a family trait. 14. belonging to or used by a family: the family automobile. dy-nas-ty (die'nuh stee; Brit. also din'uh stee) n. pl. <-ties> 1. a sequence of rulers from the same family, stock, or group: the Ming dynasty. 2. the rule of such a family or group. 3. any succession of members of a powerful or influential family or group. lin-e-age [1] (lin'ee ij) n. 1. lineal descent from an ancestor; ancestry. 2. the line of descendants of a particular ancestor; family; race. ~ om tat sat ~ Yours truly, Sanjay Rath --------------------------- H-5, B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India +91-674-2436871 http://srath.com --------------------------- Gauranga Das [gauranga (AT) brihaspati (DOT) net]Monday, June 02, 2003 9:42 PMTo: vedic astrologySubject: Re: [vedic astrology] Dasavatara Stotra JAYA JAGANNATHA! Dear Sanjayji, Namaste. I would be interested to know what do you mean by dynasty here? Lord Vamamadeva was the son of Diti and Kashyapa Muni, and Brihaspati was the son of Maharsi Angira. Angira was Brahma's mental son, and Kashyapa was the son of Marici, who is the controlling deity of the Maruts, the wind-gods. He is also the mental son of Brahma, so Vamana and Brihaspati came in different dynasties (first is Angira-gotra, the second is Marici-gotra). There is noi information given in the Srimad Bhagavatam about the appearance of Matsya, as He was found by king Satyavrata, the son ot Vivasvan (Sun-god). So He was found in the waterof the river Krtamala, which is akin to Ketu being in Moolatrikona in Pisces, a watery sign. But on the other hand, Ketu is supposed to be the trunk of the demon Rahu, who was the son of Vipracitti, and according to SB 6.6.37. has one hundred younger brothers, who were called Ketus. Vipracitti was the son of Kashyapa and Danu. Narasimha was born out of a pillar in Indra's palace, so it is difficult to assure in which dynasty He appeared. Mars is said to be the son of Sarva and Vikesi, who is the Earth. Also Kartikkeya is linked to Mars, he was the son of Lord Siva. Mercury is said to be the son of Tara and Chandra, so he is from the Moon, dsynasty, but considered to be from Brihaspati's dinasty, ans Tara is Brihaspati's wife. Lord Buddha was bor as the son of Anjana, no idea about dinasty. The Moon, Chandra was the son of Atri muni and Anasuya. Lord Krishna indeed appeared in Soma-vamsa, ro Moon-dinasty. Rahu's origins we have discussed. Lord Varahadeva was born out of Lord Brahma's nostril. Saturn was the son of Surya and Chaya, so technically he is in Surya-vamsa. Kurmadeva's birth is not described. He just appeared in the water. Surya or Vivasvan was born as the son of Kashyapa and Diti. Lord Rama indeed appeared in Surya-vamsa. Yours, Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer gauranga (AT) brihaspati (DOT) net Jyotish Remedies: WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET Phone:+36-309-140-839 Remedial Devatas (Lords) to be worshipped for the deficiencies or impediments with the nine Planets: The following is a list of personalities who either rule the various planets and thus have dominion over them, or come from or appeared in that dynasty, and so have influence over that planet. Therefore it is advised to offer homage/worship/puja/service to that presiding personality to gain His favour to alleviate malefic situations being caused by the planetary influence. Jupiter Dynasty: The Dwarf incarnation of the Lord Vamandeva, was from the Jupiter dynasty. He is to be considered Jeevamsa and Parmatmansa combined incarnation . Ketu Dynasty: The Fish incarnation of the Lord Matsya was from Ketu dynasty. He too was Jeevamsa and Parmatmamsa combined incarnation . Mars Dynasty: The Narasimha, half man half lion incarnation of the Lord was from the Mars dynasty. He was fully Parmatmamsa incarnation . Mercury Dynasty: Lord Buddha the combined incarnation was from the Mercurean dynasty. He was Jeevamsa and Paramatmamsa. The Moon Dynasty: Lord Krishna, the in Supreme Personality of God was from the Moon dynasty. He was fully Parmatmamsa incarnation - the Avatari. Rahu Dynasty: The wild Boar, the incarnation of God Varaha was from the Rahu dynasty. He was fully Parmatmamsa incarnation . Saturn Dynasty: The Tortoise, the incarnation of God Kurma was from the Saturn dynasty. He was Jeevamsa and Parmatmamsa combined incarnation . Sun Dynasty: Lord Rama, the incarnation of Lord was from Solar dynasty. He was fully Parmatmamsa incarnation . Venusian Dynasty: Sage Bhargava (Jamadagni the father of Parasuram), the plenary incarnation of God was from Venusian dynasty. (The Bhargava dynasty comes down from Bhrgumuni) He was Jeevamsa and Parmatmamsa combined incarnation . Devi Deities are: Lakshmi. (Mohini, Saraswati) Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.486 / Virus Database: 284 - Release Date: 5/29/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2003 Report Share Posted June 3, 2003 Dear Sanjayji, I think Lord Krishna would be reffered to as belonging to Kshatriya Kula(being Son of Vasudeva and nephew of Kansa the King) and either from Yadu Vanshiya as he was reared by Nanda or more correctly VrushNi Vanshiya as refered to by the lord himself in Bhagvad Gita. Even Shivaji the great Maratha King was reffered to as "Kshatriyakulaavantas" by Gagabhatt of Kanshi when he was coroneted as Chatrapati, as though popularly known as Maratha King he was from Shisodia clan of Rajpur warriors. But as you have said let those more well versed in Sanskrita language decide upon what this means. With Warm regards, Chandrashekhar. - Sanjay Rath vedic astrology Tuesday, June 03, 2003 10:43 PM RE: [vedic astrology] Dasavatara Stotra |brihaspatim varenyam| Dear Chandrasekharji In that case is Sri Krishna Chandra Vamsa or Yadu Vamsa? These things are best left to the spiritual organisations to decide as I don't think I am competent. Thanks for the nice feedback. good thinking chandrasekharji. ~ om tat sat ~ Yours truly, Sanjay Rath --------------------------- H-5, B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India +91-674-2436871 http://srath.com --------------------------- Chandrashekhar [boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk]Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 4:55 PMvedic astrologySubject: Re: [vedic astrology] Dasavatara Stotra Dear Sanjayji, Being least knowledgeable amongst the learned, I should not interfere. But I feel that the meanings of Kula Vamsha and Gotra are not being correctly conveyed. Kula means a particular Class in the society, that one belongs to Viz. Rishi-Kula,Bramhana Kula, Kshtriya Kula etc. Vansha means Clan viz Yadu Vansha, Raghu Vansha, Surya Vansha etc. And, Gotra means: Paternal lineage by birth, more like pedigree. That is why marriages with another of same Gotra is prohibited by Shashtra in Hindus. The ancients were aware of what happens when inbreeding takes place. It leads to fixing of type and loos of size, deformaties and mental abnormalities. You will find evidence of this in those small clans wher such type of marriages are permissible. Even when conducting a puja one has to tell his Gotra like if I have to tell my gotra I would say "‘Angirasa, Ambarisha, Yavanashva thriyarisheya pravaranvitha, Haritasa Gotra Ashwalayana sutra, Rik Shaka, Adhyayee, Chandrashekhar Sharma, aham bho abhivadaye.’ " Regards, Chandrashekhar. Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.486 / Virus Database: 284 - Release Date: 5/29/03 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2003 Report Share Posted June 3, 2003 Aum Namah Shivaya Namaste, To my knowledge kula is more of a family lineage, more narrower than the varna classification. Strictly speaking there are only 4 varnas (going by the dharma of the ancient days). But there may be hundreds and thousands of kulas. Kula most often is a family lineage started by someone in the long past. In Sanskrit literature, in most contexts, the word kula is used with other words which clearly indicate the meaning. For instance, kulangarah: one who spoils or ruins his family kulanvita: born in a noble family kulabimanah: family pride kulachara: a custom peculiar to a family or caste (caste not as varna but kula) kulakshaya: extinction of a family kuladharaka: a son (as he continues your family) kulapati: head or chief of a family kulavipra: family priest I can give hundreds of such usages which clearly show kula as a more narrower classification than varna. While Varna refers to the class of soceity among the chaturvarna, kula is s family lineage. Thus one varna may have within it many kulas. Since the dharma sastras allow one to adopt a son to continue the family lineage, kula etc may change by adoption. Now coming to gotra, this goes even deeper than kula, in fact to the very spiritual roots of the Vedic way of life. While there may be hundreds and thousands of kulas, strictly speaking all gotras trace their ancestry to the rishis. The many lines of descent led to many gotras. But all of them trace themselves to only eight rishis. 1. Agastya 2. Atri 3. Bharadwaja 4. Gotama 5. Jamadagni 6. Kashyapa 7. Vasishta 8. Vishwamitra Thus though there only eight gotra rishis, these 8 major lines are divided into ganas (sub-divisions) and even further sub-ganas, which today are commonly referred to as gotras. While there are 8 gotra rishis, there are only seven pravaras. A few are confused by this at times. Simply put Pravara is like the founder or the rishi at the top of the line. This list is slightly different. 1. Agastya 2. Angirasa 3. Atri 4. Bhrgu 5. Kashyapa 6. Vasishta 7. Vishwamitra Jamadagni being a descendant of Bhrgu, in the Pravara you find Bhrgu instead since he would be the main ancestor. Likewise since both Gotama and Bharadwaja are descendants of Angirasa, you find Angirasa in the pravara list. Every Brahmin is supposed to be a direct descendant of any of the 8 gotra rishis or the seven Pravaras. What about the other varnas? They too have any of these 8 rishis as their gotra rishis. While they may not be direct descendants, they are spiritually affiliated to one of them. These rishis and their descendants acted as the spiritual guides of every one within the vedic fold (sometimes referred to as Aryan instead of Vedic; but in all such contexts it has no racial reference, but refers to a vedic way of living). As more and more people adopted the Arya (meaning noble) or Vedic way of living (with its paradigm, beliefs and practices) everybody was adopted into the vedic fold. Thus the Hindus trace their roots to the rishis. Spiritually we are all like the children of rishis. Apart from pitri rna (debt to ancestors), we also have a rishi rna. Another interesting observation. When someone who is not from the Vedic fold emraces the Vedic way of living, going by the ancient way of reckoning, the newcomer would be spiritually adopted by a rishi or a direct descendant of the rishi. I do not remember the exact reference, but I do remember reading that Vyasa gave his own gotra to some tribes that had adopted the noble Vedic way of living. So the descendants of those people will have the same gotra rishi as Vyasa would have, irrespective of the varna or kula they fit into by their lifestyles. Of course such topics may be controversial. But a lot that goes in the name of Hinduism today, may not be exactly what the ancient Arya (noble) or Vedic way of living was. During later times, much seems to have got distorted. While Vamsa is used quite loosely nowadays, the original idea of Vamsha as found in the puranas is interesting. Generally the Puranas narrate long accounts of two vamshas or dynasties- the Solar and the Lunar. But some references to two other vamshas called Nagavamsha and Harivamsha or Yaduvamsha are also occassionally found. I have come across the following generally: Suryavamsha Chandravamsha Seshavamsha or Nagavamsha Yaduvamsha or Brahmavamsha or Harivamsha Sri Krsna belongs to Yaduvamsha or Harivamsha (remember the Harivamsha purana? In fact parayana (devout reading) of Harivamsha purana is said to be the best remedy for child birth problems, apart from chanting the Santan Gopal mantra. But it looks like even the other vamshas trace themselves to either of the two main Vamshas- Surya and Chandra vamshas. Most Puranas generally give long accounts of the two main dynasties, namely the Solar and Lunar. Brahma->Marichi->Kashyapa->Vivasvana (Sun god)-> Solar dynasty Brahma->Atri->Soma (Moon god)->Budha-> Lunar dynasty Since we are talking about Dasavataras I will trace the vamshas of the two great kings among the dasavatataras. Firstly Sri Rama. Vivasvan had four wives (while the Kurma purana mentions 4 wives, the Markandeya purana mentions only two). Through Samjna was born Vaivasvata Manu who in turn had nine sons. Ikshvaku was one of them. . His son was Vikukshi. This line is called the line of Kakutstha into which Sri Rama was born. Vaivasvata Manu had a daughter by name Ila. Budha, the son of Soma (Moon) married Ila. The lunar dynasty originated with Pururava their son. Pururava married the apsara Urvashi and begot six sons. One of them is Ayu. Amongst Ayu's descendants was a king called Yayati. Yayati had two wives- Devayani the daughter of Shukracharya (Venus) and Sharmishta the daughter of the danava king Vrishaparva. Through Devayani Yayati had two sons called Yadu and Turvasu. He also had three sons through the second wife- Druhyu, Anu and Puru. When Yayati retired to the forest he gave the larger portion of his kingdom to Puru, whose descendants are the Pauravas. The other sons too got a share each. Yadu got his share in the south west and his descendants are the Yadavas. Sri Krsna was a Yadava. But getting back to the main topic here, I reiterate that the word dynasty is inappropriate in the context of the dasavataras as we are speaking of the planetary amsas and not vamsas or dynasties of kings. So while Sri Krsna is born through the Amsa of Chandra or the graha Moon, he belongs to Harivamsha or Yaduvamsha immediately, though distantly he also is a descendant of Chandra vamsha. Though all kings belong to Kshatriya varna, they may belong to any other kula within the Kshatriya varna. Thus Sri Rama belongs to Raghu vamsha. Sri Krsna belongs to Harikula or Yadukula. Remember the name Harikulesa? Strictly speaking, Vamsha should refer to a dynasty and is generally used wrt kings in the puranas. For other varnas the more common term kula is generally used to refer to the family lineage, though the word kula can be used while referring to the family lineage of anyone from any varna. Thus Sri Krsna belongs to Yadu kula, Chandra vamsha (broadly speaking, though in the immediate sense he belongs to the Yadu vamsha if you want it that way), and to the Kshatriya varna. Hope this helps in some way though I know that it might lead to further questions as information always necessitates more information! I really need to get back to my work now. Regards, Satya ======================================================== vedic astrology, "Chandrashekhar" <boxdel> wrote: > Dear Sanjayji, > I think Lord Krishna would be reffered to as belonging to Kshatriya Kula(being Son of Vasudeva and nephew of Kansa the King) and either from Yadu Vanshiya as he was reared by Nanda or more correctly VrushNi Vanshiya as refered to by the lord himself in Bhagvad Gita. > Even Shivaji the great Maratha King was reffered to as "Kshatriyakulaavantas" by Gagabhatt of Kanshi when he was coroneted as Chatrapati, as though popularly known as Maratha King he was from Shisodia clan of Rajpur warriors. > But as you have said let those more well versed in Sanskrita language decide upon what this means. > With Warm regards, > Chandrashekhar. > - > Sanjay Rath > vedic astrology > Tuesday, June 03, 2003 10:43 PM > RE: [vedic astrology] Dasavatara Stotra > > > > > |brihaspatim varenyam| > Dear Chandrasekharji > In that case is Sri Krishna Chandra Vamsa or Yadu Vamsa? These things are best left to the spiritual organisations to decide as I don't think I am competent. > Thanks for the nice feedback. good thinking chandrasekharji. > ~ om tat sat ~ > Yours truly, > Sanjay Rath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 JAYA JAGANNATHA! Dear Sanjayji, Namaste. Can you give me exact chapter number from Narasimah Purana for these references? I would like to look it up. Yours, Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer gauranga (AT) brihaspati (DOT) net Jyotish Remedies: WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET Phone:+36-309-140-839 Now the appearance of the Lord for a purpose does not mean that He was not born or did not have a Kula or Gotra. For this, extensive study of the Purana and other literature is required. For rxample, you write "Narasimha was born out of a pillar in Indra's palace, so it is difficult to assure in which dynasty He appeared. Mars is said to be the son of Sarva and Vikesi, who is the Earth." Now this shows that you have to read the Narasimha Purana thoroughly. In the Chapter 'Sesha Nrisimha nama-karana and samudrika lakshana', it is mentioned that Sri Nrisimha was born in the house of Maharaja Sri Krishna-vallabha (father) in Madhya-pura. His father declared festivities and prayers for 21 days and donated asta-ratna. The horoscope was prepared by Brihaspati Who had visited in the form of a brahmin-brahmanchari to advise the Maharaja for the name. Horoscope of Sri Nrisimha Sri Brihaspati noted: Jyesta sukla panchami tithi Guruvara was the day of birth/appearance of the Lord Nrisimha.Pusya nakshatra, Brahma Yoga, Karkata Rasi, Grishma ritu. Sri Brihaspati looked at the hands and body for lakshana and suddenly he saw the fourhands holding the sankha, chakra, gada and padma. He closed his eyes and meditated in his heart lotus and realised that the child was 'swayam Jagannatha'. There seems to be some corruption in the text and the planetary positions do not match the above information, or maybe my understanding could be wrong as I am thinking of Jyestha masa as Sun in Taurus based on present day positions. Anyway here it is:Second child / not clear.. Lagna: Jupiter & Venus Seventh house - Moon Second house - Sun Third house - Rahu & Mars Sixth house with 'Amrita dristi' (any idea what this means) - Saturn The chart is attached. In another place the Lagna is specifically mentioned as Mina, then there must have been a corruption in the text and instead of Saptama Chandra it should be Panchama chandra. Then everything fits. Both charts are attached for your study and the benefit of this erudite group of astrologers. With this, I leave it to you to work and find out the reasons for the specific avatars being known as the highest incarnation of the Graha/Lagna. fam-i-ly (fam'uh lee, fam'lee) n. pl. <-lies> adj. n. 1. parents and their children, considered as a group, whether dwelling together or not. 2. the children of one person or one couple collectively: We want a family of one girl and one boy. 3. the spouse and children of one person: I'm taking the family on vacation next week. 4. any group of persons closely related by blood, as parents, children, uncles, aunts, and cousins. 5. all those persons considered as descendants of a common progenitor. 6. a group of persons who form a household, esp. under one head. 7. the staff, or body of assistants, of an official: the presidential family. 8. a group of related things or individuals: the halogen family of elements. 9. a group of people who are generally not blood relations but who share common attitudes, interests, or goals. 10. Biol. the usual major subdivision of an order or suborder in the classification of plants, animals, fungi, etc., usu. consisting of several genera. 11. Ling. the largest category into which languages related by common origin can be classified with certainty: the Indo-European and Sino-Tibetan families of languages. Compare STOCK (DEF. 12), subfamily (def. 2). 12. a local unit of the Mafia or Cosa Nostra. adj. 13. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a family: a family trait. 14. belonging to or used by a family: the family automobile. dy-nas-ty (die'nuh stee; Brit. also din'uh stee) n. pl. <-ties> 1. a sequence of rulers from the same family, stock, or group: the Ming dynasty. 2. the rule of such a family or group. 3. any succession of members of a powerful or influential family or group. lin-e-age [1] (lin'ee ij) n. 1. lineal descent from an ancestor; ancestry. 2. the line of descendants of a particular ancestor; family; race. ~ om tat sat ~ Yours truly, Sanjay Rath --------------------------- H-5, B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India +91-674-2436871 http://srath.com --------------------------- Gauranga Das [gauranga (AT) brihaspati (DOT) net]Monday, June 02, 2003 9:42 PMTo: vedic astrologySubject: Re: [vedic astrology] Dasavatara Stotra JAYA JAGANNATHA! Dear Sanjayji, Namaste. I would be interested to know what do you mean by dynasty here? Lord Vamamadeva was the son of Diti and Kashyapa Muni, and Brihaspati was the son of Maharsi Angira. Angira was Brahma's mental son, and Kashyapa was the son of Marici, who is the controlling deity of the Maruts, the wind-gods. He is also the mental son of Brahma, so Vamana and Brihaspati came in different dynasties (first is Angira-gotra, the second is Marici-gotra). There is noi information given in the Srimad Bhagavatam about the appearance of Matsya, as He was found by king Satyavrata, the son ot Vivasvan (Sun-god). So He was found in the waterof the river Krtamala, which is akin to Ketu being in Moolatrikona in Pisces, a watery sign. But on the other hand, Ketu is supposed to be the trunk of the demon Rahu, who was the son of Vipracitti, and according to SB 6.6.37. has one hundred younger brothers, who were called Ketus. Vipracitti was the son of Kashyapa and Danu. Narasimha was born out of a pillar in Indra's palace, so it is difficult to assure in which dynasty He appeared. Mars is said to be the son of Sarva and Vikesi, who is the Earth. Also Kartikkeya is linked to Mars, he was the son of Lord Siva. Mercury is said to be the son of Tara and Chandra, so he is from the Moon, dsynasty, but considered to be from Brihaspati's dinasty, ans Tara is Brihaspati's wife. Lord Buddha was bor as the son of Anjana, no idea about dinasty. The Moon, Chandra was the son of Atri muni and Anasuya. Lord Krishna indeed appeared in Soma-vamsa, ro Moon-dinasty. Rahu's origins we have discussed. Lord Varahadeva was born out of Lord Brahma's nostril. Saturn was the son of Surya and Chaya, so technically he is in Surya-vamsa. Kurmadeva's birth is not described. He just appeared in the water. Surya or Vivasvan was born as the son of Kashyapa and Diti. Lord Rama indeed appeared in Surya-vamsa. Yours, Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer gauranga (AT) brihaspati (DOT) net Jyotish Remedies: WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET Phone:+36-309-140-839 Remedial Devatas (Lords) to be worshipped for the deficiencies or impediments with the nine Planets: The following is a list of personalities who either rule the various planets and thus have dominion over them, or come from or appeared in that dynasty, and so have influence over that planet. Therefore it is advised to offer homage/worship/puja/service to that presiding personality to gain His favour to alleviate malefic situations being caused by the planetary influence. Jupiter Dynasty: The Dwarf incarnation of the Lord Vamandeva, was from the Jupiter dynasty. He is to be considered Jeevamsa and Parmatmansa combined incarnation . Ketu Dynasty: The Fish incarnation of the Lord Matsya was from Ketu dynasty. He too was Jeevamsa and Parmatmamsa combined incarnation . Mars Dynasty: The Narasimha, half man half lion incarnation of the Lord was from the Mars dynasty. He was fully Parmatmamsa incarnation . Mercury Dynasty: Lord Buddha the combined incarnation was from the Mercurean dynasty. He was Jeevamsa and Paramatmamsa. The Moon Dynasty: Lord Krishna, the in Supreme Personality of God was from the Moon dynasty. He was fully Parmatmamsa incarnation - the Avatari. Rahu Dynasty: The wild Boar, the incarnation of God Varaha was from the Rahu dynasty. He was fully Parmatmamsa incarnation . Saturn Dynasty: The Tortoise, the incarnation of God Kurma was from the Saturn dynasty. He was Jeevamsa and Parmatmamsa combined incarnation . Sun Dynasty: Lord Rama, the incarnation of Lord was from Solar dynasty. He was fully Parmatmamsa incarnation . Venusian Dynasty: Sage Bhargava (Jamadagni the father of Parasuram), the plenary incarnation of God was from Venusian dynasty. (The Bhargava dynasty comes down from Bhrgumuni) He was Jeevamsa and Parmatmamsa combined incarnation . Devi Deities are: Lakshmi. (Mohini, Saraswati) Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 JAYA JAGANNATHA! Dear Jyotisha, Namaste. I think it is quite useful to discuss these termina, because they appear in Jyotish also. My definition woudl thus be the following: Kula means physical family, as Sanjay explained. So it would extend like upto parents, grandparents etc. I thin D-12 should be studied for this. It would of course include the village (or kingdom) and varna of the kula also. In Sri Krishna's D-12 Lagna is in Scorpio, having debilitated 9th lord Moon. This would indicate his father Vasudeva being in a debilitated position (prison) at the time of the Lord's birth. His mother Devaki is indicated by the fourth house Aquarius. Its lord Rahu is debilitarted in the 11th from it, hence she was harrassed by her brother Kamsa.Deb, Ketu in the 5th from the 4th may indicate all the 7 older brothers of Krishna which were killed by Kamsa. Also in D-3 lagna is Virgo, 3rd house has Rahu and Venus (no elder brothers) and 11th has deb. Mars (no direct younger borthers). So coming back to kula, D-12 lagna is Scorpio, and its lord Mars is in Leo in the 10th, so it woudl indicate Ksatriya family. Or should we look for the 12th house (Sag in this case as Scorpio is even sign)? The presence of Rahu here would explain that He was transported to the family of Nanda Maharaja, who was his foster father (lord of Sag Jupiter is in Virgo, joined by ex. Mercury, trade and farming.) Then vamsa is one thing I have a problem with. It is clear to me that it would mean dinasty, i.e. a line of kings or forefathers for several hbundreds or tousands back. So here comes Soma-vamsa. So we shoudl look out for the Moon. In His chart it is vargottama in lagna in D-1 and D-9. So should it be taken as the strongest planet influencing the lagna in Rasi and navamsa would determine the characteristics of the dinasty? Or should we go back to D-40 and D-45 to see the lineage of father and mother? Here, if the hipothetic chart is correct, the Moon is not eyr characteristic in D-45. And finally for gotra, i.e. determining which of the Rishish are the origion of our lineage, I have heard a method based on the Nakshatras or Nakshatra padas, but I can't recollect it now. This is checked at compatibility, as Chandrasekhar said. If anyone knows the distribution, would you like to email it? Yours, Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer gauranga (AT) brihaspati (DOT) net Jyotish Remedies: WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET Phone:+36-309-140-839 - Sanjay Rath vedic astrology Tuesday, June 03, 2003 7:13 PM RE: [vedic astrology] Dasavatara Stotra |brihaspatim varenyam| Dear Chandrasekharji In that case is Sri Krishna Chandra Vamsa or Yadu Vamsa? These things are best left to the spiritual organisations to decide as I don't think I am competent. Thanks for the nice feedback. good thinking chandrasekharji. ~ om tat sat ~ Yours truly, Sanjay Rath --------------------------- H-5, B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India +91-674-2436871 http://srath.com --------------------------- Chandrashekhar [boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk]Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 4:55 PMvedic astrologySubject: Re: [vedic astrology] Dasavatara Stotra Dear Sanjayji, Being least knowledgeable amongst the learned, I should not interfere. But I feel that the meanings of Kula Vamsha and Gotra are not being correctly conveyed. Kula means a particular Class in the society, that one belongs to Viz. Rishi-Kula,Bramhana Kula, Kshtriya Kula etc. Vansha means Clan viz Yadu Vansha, Raghu Vansha, Surya Vansha etc. And, Gotra means: Paternal lineage by birth, more like pedigree. That is why marriages with another of same Gotra is prohibited by Shashtra in Hindus. The ancients were aware of what happens when inbreeding takes place. It leads to fixing of type and loos of size, deformaties and mental abnormalities. You will find evidence of this in those small clans wher such type of marriages are permissible. Even when conducting a puja one has to tell his Gotra like if I have to tell my gotra I would say "‘Angirasa, Ambarisha, Yavanashva thriyarisheya pravaranvitha, Haritasa Gotra Ashwalayana sutra, Rik Shaka, Adhyayee, Chandrashekhar Sharma, aham bho abhivadaye.’ " Regards, Chandrashekhar. Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Attachment: [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Dear Gaurangaji, The nakshatra Gothras are as Follows : Ashwini-Marichi Bharani - Vasishta Krittika - Angirasa Rohini - Atri Mrigashira - Pulasthya Ardra - Pulaha Punarvasu - Kratu Maharshi Again the Same Gothras will be followed for the remaining Nakshatras in the above order like Pushya - Marichi etc.So totally 4 turns/rotations will come along with Abhijit Nakshatra. I hope this helps you. With best regards, Ramadas Rao.Gauranga Das <gauranga (AT) brihaspati (DOT) net> wrote: JAYA JAGANNATHA! Dear Jyotisha, Namaste. I think it is quite useful to discuss these termina, because they appear in Jyotish also. My definition woudl thus be the following: Kula means physical family, as Sanjay explained. So it would extend like upto parents, grandparents etc. I thin D-12 should be studied for this. It would of course include the village (or kingdom) and varna of the kula also. In Sri Krishna's D-12 Lagna is in Scorpio, having debilitated 9th lord Moon. This would indicate his father Vasudeva being in a debilitated position (prison) at the time of the Lord's birth. His mother Devaki is indicated by the fourth house Aquarius. Its lord Rahu is debilitarted in the 11th from it, hence she was harrassed by her brother Kamsa.Deb, Ketu in the 5th from the 4th may indicate all the 7 older brothers of Krishna which were killed by Kamsa. Also in D-3 lagna is Virgo, 3rd house has Rahu and Venus (no elder brothers) and 11th has deb. Mars (no direct younger borthers). So coming back to kula, D-12 lagna is Scorpio, and its lord Mars is in Leo in the 10th, so it woudl indicate Ksatriya family. Or should we look for the 12th house (Sag in this case as Scorpio is even sign)? The presence of Rahu here would explain that He was transported to the family of Nanda Maharaja, who was his foster father (lord of Sag Jupiter is in Virgo, joined by ex. Mercury, trade and farming.) Then vamsa is one thing I have a problem with. It is clear to me that it would mean dinasty, i.e. a line of kings or forefathers for several hbundreds or tousands back. So here comes Soma-vamsa. So we shoudl look out for the Moon. In His chart it is vargottama in lagna in D-1 and D-9. So should it be taken as the strongest planet influencing the lagna in Rasi and navamsa would determine the characteristics of the dinasty? Or should we go back to D-40 and D-45 to see the lineage of father and mother? Here, if the hipothetic chart is correct, the Moon is not eyr characteristic in D-45. And finally for gotra, i.e. determining which of the Rishish are the origion of our lineage, I have heard a method based on the Nakshatras or Nakshatra padas, but I can't recollect it now. This is checked at compatibility, as Chandrasekhar said. If anyone knows the distribution, would you like to email it? Yours, Gauranga Das Vedic Astrologer gauranga (AT) brihaspati (DOT) net Jyotish Remedies: WWW.BRIHASPATI.NET Phone:+36-309-140-839 - Sanjay Rath vedic astrology Tuesday, June 03, 2003 7:13 PM RE: [vedic astrology] Dasavatara Stotra |brihaspatim varenyam| Dear Chandrasekharji In that case is Sri Krishna Chandra Vamsa or Yadu Vamsa? These things are best left to the spiritual organisations to decide as I don't think I am competent. Thanks for the nice feedback. good thinking chandrasekharji. ~ om tat sat ~ Yours truly, Sanjay Rath --------------------------- H-5, B.J.B Nagar, Bhubaneswar 751014, India +91-674-2436871 http://srath.com --------------------------- Chandrashekhar [boxdel (AT) (DOT) co.uk]Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 4:55 PMvedic astrologySubject: Re: [vedic astrology] Dasavatara Stotra Dear Sanjayji, Being least knowledgeable amongst the learned, I should not interfere. But I feel that the meanings of Kula Vamsha and Gotra are not being correctly conveyed. Kula means a particular Class in the society, that one belongs to Viz. Rishi-Kula,Bramhana Kula, Kshtriya Kula etc. Vansha means Clan viz Yadu Vansha, Raghu Vansha, Surya Vansha etc. And, Gotra means: Paternal lineage by birth, more like pedigree. That is why marriages with another of same Gotra is prohibited by Shashtra in Hindus. The ancients were aware of what happens when inbreeding takes place. It leads to fixing of type and loos of size, deformaties and mental abnormalities. You will find evidence of this in those small clans wher such type of marriages are permissible. Even when conducting a puja one has to tell his Gotra like if I have to tell my gotra I would say "‘Angirasa, Ambarisha, Yavanashva thriyarisheya pravaranvitha, Haritasa Gotra Ashwalayana sutra, Rik Shaka, Adhyayee, Chandrashekhar Sharma, aham bho abhivadaye.’ " Regards, Chandrashekhar. Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... Archives: vedic astrologyGroup info: vedic astrology/info.htmlTo UNSUBSCRIBE: Blank mail to vedic astrology-....... May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... > ATTACHMENT part 2 application/octet-stream name=Sri Krishna (3138 BC).jhd Catch all the cricket action. Download Score tracker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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